Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

approval of minutes for the December 4th, 2025 uh meeting. We hear a motion that one page down to use sue thinks they should be able to sue the funds. Okay, that was one thing I saw. Maybe that was clairvoyant. Jim, you see anything?

Most of mine were question on page six. U second full paragraph down says proposed on the north southwest corner of the property. That just didn't seem clear to me. Yeah, north southwest. I didn't know if that's a typo or what because I thought it was on the southwest corner. I don't know how to confirm that. I'm sorry. Finally,

it's uh second full paragraph first line where it starts out finally there is a dumpster proposed on the north southwest corner. Okay. Do you want to Yeah. I I thought it was on the south southwest but that's southwest. The department says it's southwest. That's what I thought. There's no such thing as the north southwest. It's just southwest. Southwest.

And I had one on page eight. Uh this well the first long paragraph right down all the way down. Uh eight eight lines from the bottom of the second par first paragraph. It says DBW. That should be DPW. Department of Public Works. Yes.

The other ones I found are just simple, very minor typos. We got them all. I think we got them all now. Move that the minutes be approved as amended. Second. All in favor? I. One abstension. Oh, did you abstain? No. Yes, you need to abstain. I have to abstain. Okay. Since I wasn't there. Uh, but Kevin, before we do anything else, did you want to introduce our new member?

I I I do. Um, this is Jeffrey Stam. He was recently appointed by the board of town commissioners to replace Lois, whose term uh ended uh in the be about the second week in December. Um so uh welcome Mr. Stan. Thank you very much and uh thank you welcome welcome Jeff. He has a very good background in engineering uh which is is nice to see. So I think that's something that'll help us out as we move forward.

Oh yeah. I think we're going to need an engineer tonight. Uh we're going to move on to election of officers. I'm going to relinquish the chair and uh turn it over to the town attorney. Uh good evening members of the planning commission. Happy new year to you all. Um as town council for the town of Bair and chair prom of the planning commission at this time I would like to call on the Bair T planning commission for nominations to the petition position of chair of the Bair planning commission. I nominate Jimmy Hines. Second. Any com any commissioners comments?

No. better than not being here. I think I can dispel any further nominations. Is that correct? Correct. Correct. Okay, I'll call for a vote. Mr. Hines, no. Mr. Stam, yes. Miss Mr. Slayer, yes. Mr. Coats, hi. Mr. Rob, I So be it. So now uh I'm going to relinquish the chair to the new chairman literally

and he will conduct the uh the vice president or vice vice chairman. Mr. Chair, we'll call for nominations to vice chair. So stay with for now. Talk about being thrown in the fire. There you go. At least it wasn't Mr. Stam. Okay. Do you wish to call for nominations at this time for vice chair? Oh yes, Mr. Chair. Call for nominations of vice chair. I nominate Pete Slair. Second. All in favor? I I Okay.

The eyes shall have it. Thank you. Thank you. Now, do you guys want to move now or you just the next meeting? If you guys are okay, since you're all set up today, we can just Mr. Chair, does he need the gavl? No, I don't think so. He might hit you with it. Okay. So, we move on to new business. I I would remind everybody to please try to speak into the microphones as closely as possible.

Yes. And uh just a reminder housekeeping item. Um on the agenda is um a special development. Um so present in the planning commission is our court reporter Ann who is fabulous. So she will need you to speak into the microphone because she will be taking every word down um and transcribing it in the event that there's an issue. Thank you. Okay. Under new business, item A, review a site plan and landscape plan approval to construct a 1,246 square foot two-story addition to the current building and related improvements to the property located at 604 Morris Mill Road.

All right. And Mr. Shaw, you're up. Happy new year, planning commission members, and welcome, Commissioner Stam. Thank you.

Nice to have you. Uh, my name is Wakar Sha, and I'm the deputy planning and community development director, and I'm presenting the site plan and landscape plan request for JNS medical billing edition located at 604 Mores Road. The project involves constructing a two-story 1,246 square foot addition to expand the existing business support service use along with related site improvements to 604 Morris Mill Road for the JNS medical building business. The new addition will result in a maximum height of 23 feet and is set outside of all required setbacks with the exception of the existing use and building encroachment into the right side yard setback. Additionally, the proposed addition will remove six off- streetet parking spaces and the existing parking area on site is to be restriped as it it as it does not meet code. The subject property is located in the B1 limited business zoning district and is approximately 150 ft northeast from the Moors Mill Road and North Hickory Avenue intersection. The area is characterized by a mix of commercial and residential development pattern and is comprised of one to threetory commercial and residential buildings. The lot is currently developed with a 1,840 ft commercial building formal formally occupied by Kelly's hair design and has been occupied by JNS Medical Building since 2022. The proposed principal building is positioned towards the southeastern portion of the site maintaining all required setbacks apart from the existing use and building encroachment into the sideyard setback. is discussed. The site plan identifies the 11 required parking spaces based on the total 3,86

square foot gross floor area and the standard in town of Beller code section 16551H requiring one space per 300 square ft. The addition will reduce the existing parking from 23 to now 17 spaces with one handicap space removed. At this time, after review of the site plan, it's recommended that the applicant address the following. The two sheds encroaching onto 604 Moors Mill Road from adjacent properties must be addressed by providing an easement or license allowing the encroachment or providing a timeline for the relocation of the shed structures if removal is planned. the imperous area. The second one, uh, the impervious area added onto the northeastern rear parking area encroaching into the 20 foot residential setback must be resolved by specifying its current use or removing the impervious area outside of the 20 foot residential side setback or explaining the intended use for the proposed impervious area. The 12 proposed western parking spaces must be revised to meet the 9 by8 size requirement to comply with the Tanabellar code section 16551D. It's to maintain a minimum of 11 compliance spaces to satisfy 16551H and provide a 22 foot wide drive aisle directly northwest of the proposed addition and a 20 foot wide 24t wide drive aisle along the northern rear. The applicant must clarify on-site refu and recycling facility details on the site plan. They must revise architectural elevations per town consultant and staff

comments and submit for approval. And they shall complete all site work including landscaping before final use and occupancy permit issuance. With respect to their landscape plan, um it is re recommended that the applicant address the following. Uh, one, prior to building permit application, submission of a final landscape plan for signature incorporating comments from staff from this staff report and the following must provide either three major deciduous trees uh, with 40 ft spacing or four minor deciduous trees with 30 ft spacing along the 132 ft plantable frontage along Moors Mill Road. The landscape plan must also provide screening plants along the multifamily residential boundary to the east for town of Beller code section 16559 A2. And the landscape plan must also provide the expected time frame for the arborist evaluation of the existing 18 in diameter brush height tree and specify the size of the replacement red maple to be planted. if the tree is to be found nonviable in accordance with the tree replacement ratio of 2:1 outlined in town of Beller code section 16545B2A. Um and then there's another comment about the phototric plan. So the applicant must confirm if the new area lighting is proposed for the commercial addition and if so um they are they are to provide a phototric plan that addresses impacts onto nearby residences and a plan that evaluates possible lightning glare and correction of that glare. Uh with respect to the service use, uh the proposed addition generally meets the town of Beller code section sorry town of Beller service use standards but does not fully comply with the required 10-ft planting buffer between the

commercial site and the adjacent residential property required by article 8 of this chapter. Although the applicant claims the existing and proposed landscaping provides adequate screening, staff finds that the required buffer of one planting unit per 10 linear feet is not met per town of Beller code section 16559 A2. Um with respect to the architectural, the elevations were reported for review to the town architectural consultant and the comments are attached to your applica to your package. At this time staff has no additional comments. Um, and then just to close it out, at minimum, the approval of the site plan, site plan and landscape plan requests should be conditioned on the recommendations outlined in your application package. This concludes staff discussion of the project.

Okay. Um, okay. Would the applicant like to do their presentation now? Excuse me. I will try. Got a partial voice. Uh my name is David Taylor. I'm the civil engineer that prepared this site plan. Forget name and address. My address is 163 Spruce Woods Court Abington, Maryland.

I'm here to uh represent the site plan for the owner who's in attendance, John Kogan, JNS Medical billing services for Morsville Road LLC. I won't um kind of rehash all the site information that car went over uh but going through I have discussed the review comments with Bar and uh just going through them briefly. Um, as far as the two shed structures go,

they're they are encroaching on the property, apologize for these. There's a shed back here and there's a shed here. Found that taken care of the uh area that he mentioned is existing nonformity that's crossed in the plan. Uh we're not proposing it. It's there now. The reason it's there is that it provides access to this stairway in the building and there's also they use it for informal double parking uh if need be. So we've got formal parking here but for some reason employee need parking space back at this time. But that's that can certainly be discussed.

Well, is it in is there any question about whether it's in compliance or not? It is not in compiance. It's an existing nonformance. So, it is not in compiance. So are you requesting that the nonconformity continue? I'm simply explaining as he expressed in his comments to explain what it's used for. Okay. But it is non-conforming. It is an existing nonconform.

Okay. So, we may have an issue because if he has a non-conforming use and he is requesting to continue that non-conforming notwithstanding a change in the current use or an expansion of the non-conforming, he has to go to the board of appeals under the town code before the planning commission can review this. So, I wasn't aware that that was a non-conforming issue. So that might be an issue unless we're going to bring it current with code. Yeah. Well, again, it we're not proposing the nonconformity, but if it is an issue for site plan approval, we will remove it.

But other options are, which I was going to get into as we go through this, um, that area is a kind of a an informal yard use for the apartment complex, which is two or three feet off the property line. and if it's if it, you know, it's used informally by those residents. Uh, but again, it's not a it's not something we aren't willing to remove if you deem it necessary to be removed. Okay. I'll leave it for the board, but I just want to advise the board that under the code, if they are a non-conforming use and they are changing something on the property,

the code and state law requires that non-conforming uses be brought into compliance with the code. You don't get to come in and say, "I have a nonconforming use. I want to change the use, but this use over here is non-conforming. I'm going to continue the nonconformity." If he's asking for permission to continue the nonconformity, then the planning commission does not have the power to grant that request, it has to go to the board of appeals under the nonconforming statute for approval by the board to continue the use.

So, Mr. Taylor, what's your pleasure? It s seems to me and very clear from council. You can either um get this site plan approved condition to removing uh that uh impervious piece or you can go to the board of appeals. Which do you want to do? First option we do not want to go to the board of appeals. Okay. So I'm sorry. Was that a removal? A removal. Okay.

Thank you. We're and we're going to uh in the requested motion we'll just under 3A we'll get rid of specify the current use or and we'll just go to capital letter R remove and that'll be the whole site plan will then be conditioned on that. Yeah, we can put that as a condition on the approval that it has to be removed. This is if it's not removed then the plan won't be approved. So you good? Yeah. You good? You good? Okay, I'm good with that.

I think the other the next uh comment had to do with the way the parking lot is currently marked. Uh it is marked with 19 foot long parking spaces and a and basically a 20 22 or so foot wide drive aisle. That is not the standard in the code. The code should be 24 foot wide uh drive by aisle with double with parking on both sides or a 22ft drive by with parking on one side. So it's simply a matter of restriping the parking lot. We will do that. So we will meet that requirement. Uh number five I believe uh clarify the location, design and operation of on-site refues. Uh this business generates very little trash and they do not have a trash service because of that. So basically whenever they need to take a trash bag home, that's how they handle it.

They take it home. They take it home and throw it in their own their own trash can. Given the nature of its use and its medical records, they probably want to there's a custodial obligation they have. Is that right? Well, it's Yes, it's medical billing. Um I have uh John You're Can you come up, sir? I'm sorry. My name is John. I'm the owner of Wait till you get up to the mic. Hang on. Yeah, we we can't hear you. Sorry. I'm sorry. My name is John Kogan and um Can you give your address and u of the property and the business?

Your address? Oh, John Kogan at 3206 Beverly Run Road, Abington, Maryland. Thank you. Um we've been um under the type of business that we do is similar to accounting except because of the HIPPA compliance of requirements we do not use paper and whatever small amount of paper is generated it's usually shredded. Okay. Uh everything is electronic. Okay. So that is the reason there's no need for the trash compactors or what have you. Perfect. Okay. Thanks for that clarification. Oh, thank you. We can eliminate that condition entirely. Then we're good.

Yes. If you guys are satisfied with um I'm sorry, what is his last name? The owners. Mr. Taylor. Taylor. No, that's that's the engineer. The owner's ex explanation. It's fine.

Okay. Number um six has to do with architectural elevations. And I'll defer that to Paul Thompson, the architect.

Good evening. Paul Thompson, president of architectural design works. I'm at 22 West Alageney Avenue in Talson, Maryland. I always love when Mr. Edme's uh finishes his review of our work with uh in my opinion, the overall design of this building complies. Um after 34 years of practice in the town of Belair, I think I think we kind of know what you're looking for. However, he did recommend um and I'll I'll point this out in D of his regular general regulations. He suggested that since the front wall exceeds 40 foot dimension for modulation, he suggested the design define existing building as a separate section from the addition and incorporating two vertical boards separate to the existing building from the addition. What what we did on our rendering just if I could point out is we strategically located our gutter system which is white which is all set from the beige color of the side to differentiate between the existing structure and our proposed I think that's what he was inferring we need to actually do some sort of vertical dom that was how we tried to address the 40 foot modulation issue want you know boards apply we'll do that we think this carification other than that there weren't any specific um requirements that Mr. Edme suggested um but happy to take any questions on the architecture.

I have one u with what you just mentioned is the uh is the entire building going to be resided or at that at that break point are you going to just match siding and it'll be new? So, so as it stands right now, we're on a tight budget and our intent is to to match the siding directly. Um, we believe we can do that color-wise. Um, we're going to pressure wash and and clean the existing siding and and cornerboards and gutters and downspouts. If there's money in the budget, then we do plan to resside and and re um uh trim the the building. Okay. How about how about for the roof? Are you going to re- roof it so that everything matches or just try?

So, so again, the thought is to either do a vertical connection between the two and try to match the shingles as well as we can or if we have the money in the budget, then we're going to re-roof the entire structure. It's just the costs of construction right now are are are high and and small business trying to grow his business here in town. It's it's it's the budget's already come in higher than we anticipated and we're going to do everything we can to make sure the product is what ADW wants, you know, to to represent. Um,

well, I will say and I'm I'm I'm always uh satisfied when Mr. Redbee's says the design complies and then he recommend that we the planning commission consider the design revision. He's not It's not a condition of approval. It's just a consider. And I'm I'm If he's when he signs off and says it complies, that's good enough for me. Thank you. Those don't come easily. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

Uh continuing on with the landscape plan. uh provide required public frontage tree plantings. Uh we will certainly do that. We'll add additional trees along the frontage to meet that requirement. I'm going to jump to C. Provide the time frame for arborist evaluation of the existing 18inch um diameter breast height tree and that will be done prior building permit. We'll add a note to the plan to that effect. More than likely that tree will be replaced because it did look diseased this fall. So we're proposing to replace it with two red maples at a ratio of 2:1. The um the one issue I wanted to point out has to do with the 10oot landscape strip. I mean we certainly want to comply with all the requirements and not have to go to the fields. The reason we did not land this 10t is that this residential use building conded into their apartment complexes. They do have access out of their apartments ground floor. Uh it would also block access between the two buildings for maintenance because there is space between these two buildings. You can see how close. Uh and the other thing is these residents informally use that yard

outside and we plant up to three feet of the building with a buffer just seems like that would be issues. So for that reason we didn't propose and so we're kind of throwing it out to you. I I kind of think that the way you're proposing is okay with, you know, the medical building and the residents, but things change and as you years go on, different people with different ideas and they hey, I thought to code here we had to have a buffering. Why isn't there a buffer there? you know, so uh I mean if the planning commission wants to say, "Hey, it's okay for now, but and uh in the future, we'll let them bang it out." But that was my question. What's going to happen down the road? How how are people going to look at that? Why didn't they comply?

Planning Commission may wave if they so desire. The planning commission may wave the buffer if they desire, if that's okay. What they can't wave is the setback.

I I've been by those properties many many times and I know those apartments are very close to you. Not I don't know why they didn't have a buffer. Good point. Okay. What else you got?

Uh had I guess number two confirm whether new lighting is proposed. Uh we were not proposing in any street lights. The building right now has uh some small wall packs on the existing side away from the residence residential building that when we expand away from the residential building will simply put new wall packs on the new addition which will be further away from the residential building than the wall packs currently are. So for that reason I did not think it was um worthwhile going through the exercise of preparing a phototric. But again, if you want us to prepare a phototric, we can do that. But I can tell you that the lighting will be less than is currently there now. Uh because we're pushing the lighting away. How about your parking areas? How well they illuminate it?

Um because of all the area lighting with the other uses, it it it's doesn't seem to need a a any kind of a parking light or street light. If I could answer that more definitively, our electrical engineer will make sure that it complies with all standards for safety.

So, the light will actually be thrown towards the automotive repair shop on the corner and towards that main intersection. Kevin, when you said we could wave the plantings, but we can't wave the setback. We're not without any plantings, we don't are we we're not really waving the setback. Setbacks is is existing that if somebody comes in later, they still would have to comply with that if the usage changed. So if we say you're you're not planning, that's not an issue,

right? I mean, you're control of the landscape whether or not you feel there's one of the issues that we had to look at was that the um everything is being expanded out the other side of the existing structure. So there's nothing really changing on that side. And uh you know there's certainly some they did offer some landscape in there. Um and I think especially where it's located back where this the parking lot is that's very appropriate. Um but I didn't know whether or not that was something that it really up to you to decide whether or not you feel there's additional landscaping required.

So the setback shouldn't be an issue anyway. Which one? any of the setbacks because we're adding to the other side of the building. Well, but the setback but the setback's the setback. So, it's it doesn't change. Yeah.

Okay. Any comments from the staff on the lighting? None. We're good. Okay. you're good with his explanation? Yeah, we actually met a couple days ago and he basically told me that the lighting is going to augment more towards the parking area in the automotive, less so from the residential, so the impact is very minimal. Okay.

Um, one thing that I would recommend is there appears to be some sort of confusion as to whose responsibility is to deal with these encroachments. And I've I've I've advocated um multiple times both at the board and here um that encroachment should not be tolerated by the town. Um if you don't have a building permit or it's not where it should be, it needs to be moved. If you're not going to move it, then you need to have some sort of legal agreement because I don't want this board getting in trouble with an adjoining property owner. They're an argument there's an adverse impact. Um there's so there the department apparently spoke to the owner at Delh Haven. They are saying that there's some confusion as to who's supposed to tell them what what they're supposed to do. So, I'm going to ask the planning commission to put some sort of a reasonable time restriction because I know what happens in these cases is that the applicant gets their approval and they turn around, they walk out the door and they don't do anything or they tell the department they did it, they didn't do it. So I'm going to ask that this be done either within the next I don't know four what

prior to use something they have to show evidence that these sheds are moved off their property or if they decide to have some sort of an agreement that's fine with the the property owner they have to get they have to do it so agreement in writing correct between the property owners as to these encroachments on the sheds because they're physical structure structure. So if these physical structures were permitted and they got a shed permit, then there shouldn't be an encroachment. So why is there two encroachments? So they've agreed to remove the sheds. We can make that a condition of the Absolutely. I would just put in there prior to use and being got it duly noted. Thank you.

Okay. Thanks. What about the concrete curb and the paving? That's I think that's noted as a apparent encroachment as well. Where is that at? Oh, on the imperous parking spot right to the off to the right of the shed on the that Mr. Taylor. Is that an encroachment? There's a Yes, there's a physical encroachment from the automotive use a couple of feet into the property for the full length of that property. So, as we see it, we would probably need to get an easement.

Yeah. or have an easement from them that both parties sign to allow that. Correct. Because that's that's affecting his use of the property. Correct. But he's using your client's property illegally. That's correct. Yes. And so so if your client's okay with that, then yes. Then he needs to grant something in writing to be recorded in the land records granting that use. Does that make sense? That's that's the intent. Yes. That's we and I think we put a note to that effect on the plan. Okay. So that agreement would have to be presented through the to me through the department so I could approve it on behalf of the town. Okay. Okay. So should we add that as a condition? Yes.

Anything else, sir? That's all I have. Okay. Would anybody in the public Oh, I'm sorry. Just one more clarification. The health department had issued a letter and in their letter they mis uh wrote that the plan proposes to construct an 831 square foot twotory edition. That that that's not correct. It's the square footage that is in the staff report. Just wanted to make note of

before we before we move on the impervious area that they're removing. We're also saying that they're putting a sidewalk back in there which is impervious. How do we

I think they would have to maintain access. No, I I understand. I'm just when we when we make our motion to say get rid of the impervious property, we can't help them to get rid of that to get rid of it at the same time putting this back in. The uh the motion will read though the impervious parking area surface. So, right. The one thing I noticed I didn't see that the report didn't come back yet from the air fire department. Has that come in? And do we know if they got any issues, comments? Fire typically does not comment when it's not residential really.

So we usually don't receive comments from them unless it's either multi-story, which actually this is uh or um residential. That's the only times we get something from them. Okay. Anyone on the staff got any more items to bring up? Anything else? There's nothing else from on my end. Okay. This is time, I guess, where we invite anyone from the public that likes to make a statement or questions or any comments. No. Okay. I guess it's motion time.

Mr. Chairman, I first move that uh the planning commission agrees that the proposed use meets the provisions of the 2022 comprehensive plan as required by town code section 165-19. Second. All in favor? I.

Now I move the site plan be approved at a minimum approval of the of the plan is condition on the following. Number one, prior to building permit application, submission of a final plan site plan for signature incorporating comments from the staff report and comments from well, we'll skip the fire department because we're not expecting Harford County Health Department. Um, Harford County Soil Conservation District, Balair Public Works comments dated December 4th, 2025. Harford County Planning and Zoning Comments dated December 5th. uh town of Belair architectural consultant dated December 29th, 2025. Number two, the two shed structures encroaching on 604 Morris Mill Road from 801 Konowingo Road and 608-610 Moors Mill Road will be removed prior to issuance of a use and occupancy permit. Is that good, counselor? That works?

Yes. Do we need to mention it needs to be in writing?

Okay. um prov a provide an easement or licensing license granting access rights to the adjacent property owners or or a license agreement permitting the encroachments to remain or b provide the expected u time frame for no we're skipping that one we're not relocating so skip b um number three uh the imperous area labeled existing land use nonconformity encroaches into the 20 foot required setback. The applicant shall remove the imperous parking area surface encroaching onto the 20 foot residential use setback behind the existing building and be revise the noted existing land use conformity 270 capital S capital F to reflect the corrected square footage and provide an updated description of the use of the northeastern rear parking area. Number Four, the 12 proposed parking spaces on the western side do not meet the required 9 by18 dimensions under 165-51D. The applicant shall a revise and restripe the parking area so all off- streetet spaces comply with 165-51D and b uh ensure a minimum of 11 compliance spaces is maintained to satisfy 165-51H. C. create a 22 foot um aisle northwest of the proposed addition and a 24 foot aisle along the northern rear. Um forget five forget we're forgetting five and I'm recommending we're forgetting

six. We're accepting the architectural approval without any other considerations there. Uh and then finally what becomes the new number five. Um prior to issuance of the final use and occupancy permit complete all site work on the final site plan including landscape installation. Second. All in favor? I I. All opposed. All opposed. For the record. For the record. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Don't go away without your landscaping plan. Get that.

You paid for that, too. That's right. I'm sorry. Yes. We got one more. Do I have a motion on landscape plan? Mr. Chair, I make a motion that we accept the landscape plan um as submitted one uh A through C and eliminating um two about the lady. Yep. Second. All in favor? All opposed? Eyes have Okay,

good. Real quick question on item two. We're scratching at right the lighting confirm whether new. So the question is is whether or not the board is going to accept the department's um suggestions. Confirm whether new area lighting is proposed for commercial edition. If new lighting is planned, provide a full phototric lighting plan addressing potential impacts or adjacent residences. And to evaluation of corrections, pop the applicant kind of I believe said that you were going to provide a phototric plan.

We will provide it if it is deemed required. We don't think it's necessary, but we'll we'll certainly provide it if you if you wish to have one. Yeah, I'm not I'm not suggesting otherwise. I thought you said you would. My apologies. Yeah. So, really, the planning commission has to decide whether or not to require the applicant to provide that phototric lighting plan. The the applicant is saying I I said I my motion was to to exclude that to exclude that. Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, okay. Sorry. You as that was number two, but I said eliminate. That's good. Okay. So, it's it's excluded, Jimmy. Sorry about that. Yeah. And we already voted. Yay for it. You're good to go. Okay. Good to go. All right. Very good. Thank you very much.

One down. You're doing fine. It's okay. Okay. Okay. Under new business, uh item B, review of a special development site plan and landscape plan application for two buildings totaling 11,663 square ft associated with the existed mixed use redevelopment at Harford Mall located at 600 Baltimore Pike. And give me one second. The department staff is swapping chairs.

That's right. I Yeah. Okay, the chair recogniz recognizes U Kevin from uh Kevin Small from planning commission be able to do the presentation.

All right, one more thing. You hooked in?

Yeah, I'm hooked in. How are we going? I don't know why it's not working. Technology is wonderful.

Okay, thank you. This is for um Harford Mall phase 4. The applicants requesting a site plan landscape plan approval to construct two buildings totaling one 11,663 square ft of commercial space within the project area of Hartford Mall. This will be the fourth phase of redevelopment. the mall which revises phase two and phase three previously approved by the town. Final site and landscape plans have been submitted and approved by the town. So this phase is considered apart from the previous phases and supersedes the improvements shown on those plans were applicable. So you had these two plans that were approved. a portion of those were uh as the applicant will describe will um uh supersede those those will no longer be approved. Um, let's see. This submission is an alteration to the existing mixeduse center and requires modification of that existing special development. Proposed projects re uh is reviewed in aggregate. So, all parcels in all buildings within the Harford mall project must be meet the criteria of a mixeduse center. The performance standards for mixed use centers are attached to the application along with the criteria for applicable new users. The first three phases are approved and are not subject to any amendment or revision by the planning commission again unless two and three are being done by phase four. Um the existing Harford Mall project areas described uh as described uh previously described

encompasses several buildings including the SH shops at Harford Mall to and near Tolgate Road, the former Macy's furniture store and the mall itself. The current building area of the mall is 496,337 square feet of commercial space. That's current. Um phase two of the development will add 249 multif family units and phase three which was approved a short while ago um will demo a portion of the Macy's mall or Macy's building and then uh which is uh 172,228 ft and add 82,924 ft. Uh so that results in the 4733 ft. When you add these two new buildings to the mall, that 11,633, that brings that total up to 418,696 square ft. Um, town code requires that a minimum of 50% of the total development area must uh be commercial space. Uh the space utilized by the previously approved multif family use is 264,120 ft². Um when the interior mall corridor spaces are removed, the proposed development will result in 379,000 square feet of the commercial space which provides for a minimum 59% commercial. Um interior mall space is also removed from the total commercial space required for parking. And so the following you have 47033. You remove that 39,485 which is abandoned. Uh and you add back 11,663

and you the resulting uh square foot area that is calculated for parking is 379,211 square feet. Parking is located throughout the project area and is provided at three and a half spaces per thousand square feet. Um there uh they exceed actually exceed that by about 41 spaces. Let's see. U the phase 2 residential approved uh required the abandonment of that 334,000 square ft of commercial space. um more than this amount of space is proposed for removal as part of the phase two which is the old Macy's store. Um so it really becomes unnecessary to remove that portion because already that square footage is gone. Um however again that uh condition will remain in effect until Macy's is actually demoed. Um handicap spaces meet ADA requirements. Um, however, the spaces shown on phase 4 don't seem to show van accessible spaces. So, a small change in put installing or proposing one van accessible space in that area would be appropriate. Um the applicant uh appears to have addressed internal pedestrian connections required by the special development criteria. Um and then uh by adjusting some of the proposed internal sidewalks, especially the one going from building 600 to building 300. Um one minor adjustment is recommended to improve pedestrian connectivity and that's shown on a redline exhibit that you have uh entitled exhibit A. It just moves over slightly a um a a handicap space cluster

and provides a handicap uh crosswalk in there. Um configuration of the service area was a concern to staff given its overwhelming size and awkward design when phase three went in. However, the placement of numerous refuge recycling for several buildings within the development will require more room and for for maneuverability that is provided by the proposed layout. Uh, however, additional screening is needed to visually separate the service area from the public portion of the development. Uh staff is recommending a six-foot screen wall matching the others that are in that area um to uh provide a again a screen uh that is needed to create a barrier for the service area. Um, since buildings 500 and 600 must use the refuge recycling bins located within the service area, we're recommending some changes to pedestrian access so that when people are taking the trash down there, they have a place to go and they're not going in the middle of the road. Um, submitted site plan shows exterior patios adjacent to each of the proposed commercial buildings. However, more details needed to get approval for um outdoor dining. So again, this and this was the same with phase three. No outdoor dining is being approved as part of this application. Likely what will happen is you'll get individual applications as for uh outdoor dining and those those spaces will be looked at by staff to see whether or not there's a major change in where they're located and how they're configured. If there isn't, it would be ad it would be approved administratively because you're allowed to do that within uh a shopping center or mixed use.

I'm going to well I'll talk just uh skip off through a little things on this previous approvals. Shops at Harford Mall has basically adhered to all the requirements that they need to adhere to. Um the residents of at Harford Mall the final site plan landscape plan have been or in the process of being approved. Uh revised architectural exhibits were provided to the to the uh staff. Uh substantial construction must be initiated prior to January 4th, 2027 in order to meet approved plans. There is no extension at that point. um off-site road improvements along Bolton Street, Tollgate Road and Route 24. I I can't emphasize enough that this has got to start happening as the residences are being constructed. I don't want to have to go back two years later and have to find or you know create pro uh create issues with uh improvements being done that was required for a phase that was already finished and is being occupied. So occupancy permit that's right these are required prior to the final use and occupancy permit commercial which is phase three final site plans been approved substantial construction again must be initiated prior to Jul to July 177 uh but they can be extended for a year if you so grant them. Uh off-site road improvements must be completed prior to use and occupancy. there weren't too many off-site improvements required for that phase because you were demoing a very large building uh and getting rid of a lot of land of uh square footage. Applicants submitted a landscape plan for review and comments are graphically provided on exhibit A uh

including addition of interior shrubs uh and street trees along the along with trees along the access drive within the parking area. The proposed landscape is consistent with the design of the overall center. Final landscape plan should include all proposed area lighting forest conseration. The a declaration of intent regarding forest conservation plan has been submitted. It was submitted the first phase of development. Applicants provided color elevations and renderings of the architecture for the proposed buildings. Comments from the town architectural consultant are attached. The proposed buildings appear to be consistent with phase three renderings. Some of the descriptors need to be made consistent between phase two or phase four and phase three so that everybody knows what we're all talking about because the just a little bit of the descriptions are not the same. I think they mean it to be the same, but it probably had a a different person doing the drafting. And anyway, um, proposed phase 4, uh, again, I I described that smooth stuckco versus, uh, um, items that were, you know, decorative block and whatnot. So, just, uh, they should look at that and resubmit. Um, center must be in harmony with the material design, color, and massing. be advised that there that as users are identified for each building, any significant change in site design or architecture will require review by the planning commission. Comprehensive signage plan is attached. review package. Uh the proposed appears to be in harmony with the architecture and within the limits of the code suggested the applicants consider coordinating with the town to identify interior drive aisles so patrons can easily navigate the development and emergency services can respond without possible confusion. What we were looking at is that because this is now becoming I don't want to say

the avenue, but it's it's got internal roads to be able to if if your addressed out on Baltimore Pike, uh let's say you're is it Bonefish? If Bonefish was is addressed on Baltimore Pike, but on the interior portion under the master plan, another uh building is also addressed on Baltimore Pike. You're not sure where you're going. So, this is something that just maybe needs to be coordinated with Baltimore uh or Baltimore Belair Volunteer Fire Company. Name the road.

Well, I mean, I don't want to get out of my lane. Uh I think u the Bair police and Bair Volunteer Fire Company should coordinate with the developers to get an understanding of how that should be handled. Um it's they could name the roads, but they're private roads and they're really informal. So, uh and then whether or not they could suffice to be addresses through the post office, that's just something I I I don't necessarily want to tackle without getting emergency services involved. But we think it's complicated enough, especially when the interior portion is demoed and and rebuilt, that is probably going to create some confusion.

But if you did name those roads and uh you know, put the road names in blue, isn't it blue? Yes. Yeah. As a private and you could that that's a little more understanding. Yeah. I think some of the patrons would appreciate it. I think they would. It's again this is more of a marketing thing. Uh and it's also again uh Beller Fire Company and police would probably want to know. Ultimately, you're going to have six, seven buildings or

something like that. Yeah, there'll be more. That's what I'm hearing anyway. I'm seeing on the master plan. So, um I don't know what the expert with the LA uh I think that was called Belair Racetrack and it was not anything more than that, but they're calling it Derby Place and I'm not sure whether that was just an a placeholder or what.

We never had the Kentucky Derby here or not even a premise. Uh, I'm thinking that and they'd be wise on this numbering because people under 40, they only find anything in their GPS. They got to have a they got to have an address to plug in there or else they'll never get to the restaurant. Know which one. So anyway, there's a some of those things aren't really applicable to this application, but they are things to just bring up for future uh design. Uh traffic study has been submitted and approved. Uh that is um again did not really necessitate too many changes. Um we're still waiting on state highway uh comments. Can you walk us through the speaking of traffic the access and egress uh specifically regarding trucks deliveries these two that we're talking about tonight?

I would defer to the applicant for that. Okay.

Um mixed use centers are a special development and must meet the performance standards. Architecture must be in harmony. Uh internal vehicular and pedestrian traffic must be designed to minimize conflicts. Um so that's been I think addressed relative uh relatively well but this will be a determination you guys make. Um development agreement was executed between the property owners and and as part of the phase two uh approval and all previous conditions of approval for phase one, two and three still apply. Uh the master plan was provided basically the same way as you saw with phase three. Um so that's uh they've taken comments from again the planning commission provided sketch. Uh this concept concept is illustrative and nature does not obligate the applicant uh to any future design. Um the recommendations are are there if you need me to go through them. Um because this came through during the holidays. I've received a couple of uh uh comments, but I haven't gotten all of them. So, you've got Bel Bair Volunteer Fire Company, Harford County Health, and Harford County Soil Conservation are still pending. That's all I have.

Okay. Um center, it's all yours. Thank you. You bear with me for a second. I'm going to try my computer just to see if It happens to like it better. But if not, I'll I'll present from paper. I can go home and get my six-year-old to come up and help you. I mean,

I'll take it. All right, I won't bel labor it. Um, so good evening everybody. Good to see you again. Happy new year. Um, I think everybody's familiar with me except for Mr. Stam. Welcome to the planning commission. And I'm I'm Christopher Mud. I'm an attorney um with Venal LLP. My office is at 210 West Pennsylvania Avenue in Talson, Maryland 21204. Uh I'm pleased to be here tonight uh I think for the fourth time on this project. Um and tonight I'm here on behalf of SJC Ventures who is the contract purchaser um of what we what we will discuss tonight as phase three and phase four. We're here tonight on phase four only and I'll talk a little bit more about that. Uh but those two phases together comprise about 10 acres of the mall property. Um and we'll take a look uh at exhibits in a second to remind everybody of where that is geographically. Um uh but SJC is the contract purchaser of that. With me here tonight are um Mr. Matt Robinson and Andrea Smith from SJC. We also have folks uh from Frederick Gordon Associates, Tory Pierce, Caitlyn Pierce, and Scott Foresight. And then we also have Mr. John Michelle who is with CBL Properties. They're the owners of the mall property. Um so, um SJC, just I know that we heard some of this at the very beginning and it's been months now, and for Mr. Stam's

benefit, I'm just going to describe a little bit about who SJC is. Um, they're an experienced retail and mixeduse developer headquartered in Atlanta. They have dozens of projects that they've completed and are ongoing in the Mid-Atlantic, in the Southeast, and in the Midwest. They've been f they were founded in 2007. Uh, and they've entitled and developed over 60 properties since that time. A lot of big complex projects like this one. um they were the developer and purchaser of a portion of the mall property that was already developed on the southern side of the mall which we're calling phase one. So I'll for now I I'm going to present from my paper and I'll just try and point for folks but I'm on the second sheet uh and this is a phasing plan. As I mentioned we're here on phase four and phase three which are at the top of the page and SJC is the owner and was the developer of phase one which is at the bottom of the page. Um as I mentioned they're now uh here on Sorry. We we previously uh came through um late last year and obtained or middle starting in the middle of last year and then into late last year starting to obtain approvals for phase three here. Um and tonight we're here on phase four. Um the only other two aspects on this project are phase two, which was previously approved. That's the residential component that SJC is not involved with. Um, and then the area identified as future is still owned by CBL uh CBL properties. Um, so I'll move on to the next sheet. And some of these sheets are a little bit redundant. Um, but we did it just to try and drill down for you. So the next sheet takes you and uh shows phase four and phase three together uh in a blown up fashion. And again, this is the reminder of this is the approximately 10 acre area that SJC has under contract. We've obtained approval for phase three. U we're not here tonight on phase three, but we are here tonight on phase four. Um

actually I can do it from this exhibit. Uh Mr. Small mentioned that phase 4 really captured what was parts of other phases in uh in prior plan view. and that was that phase two extended a little bit into um the parking lot area uh north or planned north anyway of uh of the mall property. Uh and then phase three creeped in a little bit in this direction. So technically speaking the area of phase 4 includes a small portion of what was approved on phase three and a larger portion of what was approved or uh what was approved on phase two. Um but and but for this corner, nothing of phase two or nothing of phase three is at issue tonight. It's only this corner in phase 4. Um skip on to the next page where again a little redundant, but uh just demonstrating that now we're here on the highlighted phase four part in phase three. Interestingly, um and this will kind of be a little bit of a theme of the presentation as I get into it. Um for those who were here for prior presentations, phase four for all intents and purposes has been before you. We're really here for the third time on phase four in the sense that phase three plans were shown and we were asked at that time and understandably so to provide a master plan and the master plan included not only phase four but what we showed back on the first sheet as the future area that that's uh that is future a future potential layout for uh for the mall and I mentioned that because um you you're not really seeing much new here tonight relative to phase 4. It's it's very consistent with what we showed previously on phase three and it's frankly only that we're technically here on phase 4 to ask you to approve it. Uh and we'll demonstrate as I make my way through more exhibits how um how

we previously demonstrated compliance with the ordinance when we came through on phase three and how we're just really um nailing that home again on phase four tonight. Um, so one thing I want I do want to talk about uh in phase four and I'll I'll use this exhibit. Um, phase 4 includes two pad sites. Uh, we're referring to this as building 400 which is on the top of the site and then building 500 which is on the bottom of the site. Um, building 400 is about 5,256 square feet and building sorry, building 400 is 5,256 square feet and building 500 is 6,47 square ft. Um, although we do not have any tenants um yet for this site. It's envisioned at the moment that building 400, the one on the corner, is is likely to become a re a restaurant tenant. and building 500, which is the one um to the south, is more likely to be a soft goods or retail tenant. And I think when we look at the architecture, that kind of speaks to that when you see the the storefronts and the way that that's been designed. Um from a parking perspective, phase 4 requires 41 parking spaces. Uh but there are 122 spaces that technically lie within the boundaries of phase 4. And it may seem like a lot more than needed, so to speak, but when you look at the overall uh uh mixeduse center that we have, you have to count all the different parking uh spots throughout the whole site. So, we need every one of those spaces to get us to the point of having enough spaces for the mixed juice center. So, uh by my count, looking at the plan, the site plan, we have a requirement of 1748 spaces for the overall mixed juice center and we're providing 1836 spaces. Um move on move on to the next couple sites. So we we have markers to explain what we're headed into and we we're essentially addressing three things in in total tonight. Um or or focusing on three things I should say.

We have uh discussion about site access and connectivity. Later we will talk about green space. Um actually four things. We will talk about um we will talk about screening and we will talk about architecture. And so the first thing that we're going to talk about is site access and connectivity. Um there's two slides in addition to that to that uh title slide that we have to discuss here. This may look familiar to some folks who were here or to everybody who was here at the last meeting. But um the purpose for this exhibit is to is to demonstrate the connectivity uh around the site both vehicular and uh and pedestrian oriented. So vehicular connectivity we have Oh, how about that? I found the right button to push.

Oh, nice. All right. Was it the last one? It was the last one. To be clear, the pole fire screwed up a lot of buttons on my little So, thank thank you for that.

This will this will this will prevent me from uh presenting with my back to you. Um, so, so this is meant to show again connectivity, although I may I may still point at the at the exhibit to just to help as I've done in prior presentations. Um, so to orient everybody, I don't want to um assume everybody knows where where it is, so I'll just go ahead and say it, but we have Bolton Street here, uh, 24 up along there, and then Route One right here. Um, so the connectivity, the general plan is to have this spine road. We referred to the spine road last time. um that cuts through the site and you could take vehicular access from both ways. So, so phase four can be accessed just as phase three could from both sides from a ve vehicular standpoint. And then we also took good great care um to make sure that we were getting great pedestrian connectivity into the site as well. So everything you see in blue is meant to show the pedestrian connectivity points both getting from off-site into on-site as well as how one would navigate when they're on site. And an important part of this, and I'm going to come back to this, actually I'll just explain it from this sheet. This next sheet was meant to show how that connectivity carries through not only to phase three, but the other side of of uh of the areas offsite as well as getting down into phase two and what eventually would become the future phase there. Um, one other thing that I want to point out about this slide is that this line right here, uh, is a line that was put in direct response to staff's comments about ensuring better connectivity between building 600 and building 500. So, this is a little bit different than plan view, but we already addressed it in our presentation to you to show that we've been thoughtful about how we're going to be able to accommodate that concern from staff and that comment from staff. Um,

let me see. Uh, oh, one last thing. The insets here. Um, again, this will be familiar folks from last time, but the numbers 1, two, and three, they correspond with street level vignettes, if you will, or or images of what this would look and feel like at the pedestrian level. So, there was real intentionality here, and frankly, with the pushing and and help of of Mr. small to to really make this the most comfortable uh uh experience for folks when they are on the street level. If you're if you're walking next to or nearby a place where vehicles might be, there's intentionality in trying to to keep pedestrians uh rem removed from those vehicles and and make them most comfortable. And of course, there's also intentionality in having this be treeine so that we can have a nice experience for people when they might decide to come to one restaurant and then find their way over to Whole Foods or some other retailer so that they're not getting in their car to walk across or to get across, but they're actually walking across.

Is the middle image a stroller? It is unattended. No, there's a there's a a mom right there. Okay. All right.

Yeah. Uh, okay. Oops. I guess I I'll do this way. Um, so the next the next topic we wanted to talk about was green space. Um, and this was just meant this first exhibit is meant to highlight for you um again the the focus on greenery that we have at the corners. So at uh 24 in Bolton and then at Bolton at the new Spine Road entrance, we have um we have we've focused a lot of um green uh green area there to be more welcoming to to people when they're coming in and coming by. Um and they could be opportunities also for people um you know to congregate frankly if they wanted to. Um, but another thing too, and this will show up in a couple other exhibits, but internally to the site, we've really tried to to increase the tree count and shrub count um to make it as green as possible in areas where those opportunities were available. Um, in this next exhibit that I'm popping up, this shows or this is meant to show for you, um, uh, how we've carried forward the same similar pattern to what was, uh, what was done in phase three. So, again, back to just our phase four and then we have phase three. And I I think arguably we probably have more landscaping on phase four than we did in phase three per square foot. Um, if you were to compare side by side and and you know, I mentioned that you saw phase four last time. What I'll show you in a second is a demonstration of how this is this is actually a little bit different. Now that we're paying direct attention to phase four, we've done some things to improve upon the vision that we had in phase three. So on the right hand side um of the of the sheet here, we have what was shown as phase four in the future when we were dealing with phase three. So, we were saying, "Okay, phase four is going to have a building here and a building there, and it's going to have some landscaping elements." And when we got into the planning of phase

uh four, we we actually improved uh landscaping and enhanced it in in at least two spots. Um in here, we found an opportunity for more uh shrubs and trees. And importantly here, and I'm going to talk more about this when we get to screening, but we were very thoughtful um or intentional. I'm using that word. I don't don't mean to say. We were thinking a lot about uh about how to treat this area here so that people who are in the shopping center and and walking or looking towards the loading dock and what I call back of house area that they would be adequately screened from that. You'll notice in when we did this before, we weren't really even looking closely at that. And that's an example of something that we did when we got into phase four. um compared to what you saw previously. You also see I think along in here more landscaping uh opportunities which we were able to incorporate when we took a closer look. So now on to screening. Um this image may may look uh familiar as well. Uh in fact I think all of them except for this picture down here were were borrowed from the last presentation on phase three. Um, and but as a reminder and to orient people, the red arrows here, A and B, are meant to uh to depict for you A and B. So red is what you're seeing when you're looking at street view into the site from Route 24 here, and B is uh meant to depict what you're looking for in this area. You may remember from last time, uh I'm sorry, one other quick thing. uh E um which is an inset here shows the the the the treatment of the screen walls that we that we were incorporating inside. And so um in a minute we're going to talk a little bit about landscaping and we have reference sorry architecture we have references to the architecture um uh to the materials and the numbers that you see one two and three

correspond or I should say two and three correspond to the numbers on the architectural materials. So that it just demonstrates for you not only on the buildings but on the screening and the screening walls and these these uh uh accessory items were matching and mimicking the materials that came forward or are on the building. Um so uh so when I presented last time for phase three we noted that in this in this B that we were around this point where letter D is. we were getting closer to where phase four was and we basically said, you know, we're giving you a sneak peek of phase four and now we're back for phase four. So really today, the only thing that is is relevant, if you will, or or certainly subject to your review is what we're looking at in this photo here as to um what's what's proposed at phase 4 and then also the the screening that we're proposing at this point that I talked about before uh between the back of house section and where the parking lot is. Um, in D, this just gives you an example of decorative fencing. Uh, it also demonstrates that we have rooftop parapets that will be screening the rooftop equipment. Um, and then it and then it also uh if you were to look at those materials, the materials are the same or match what we did in phase three. We'll talk a little bit more about that. Um and then this truck turning area and back of house area is where we have dumpsters that will serve many of the different users. Dumpsters here. Um there is a turnaround that is for for the trucks that will be coming into the loading dock. Um and then again we took last time in phase three. Mr. Small was very interested and and uh in in ensuring that we had adequate screening here which we did and now we're in phase four. Mr. mall again um is focused on that understandably and there was actually a comment about placing a screen wall in this area and

we have absolutely no problem doing that. So our proposal was landscaping and we thought we could buffer it with that. staff has requested um a a five or six foot tall screen wall and we're completely um comfortable with doing that to ensure that this whole area is really the only people who really should be back here and will be back here will be people who are making deliveries, people who are dumping trash and maybe some other employees. There are you note four parking spaces here, but the intention would be that those parking spaces would be employee spaces. This is not a place where we're going to try and invite or welcome anyone from the general public. And that's why we're trying to screen it as much as we can. Um, sorry, I'll just do this. Make sure I'm hitting my points. Um, one thing I want to mention, um, and I I skipped over this and I I do want to state when we were looking back at the landscaping in the green space, staff has, um, mentioned and requested certain landscaping enhancements, and our team at FWA is already working towards addressing those um, on revisions to a landscape plan, and we're happy to to comply with what staff wanted in that respect. Um, next one I'll go to our building materials. And I'm not going to dwell on this, U, but we did we did talk a lot about this last time. Um, so again, this may look somewhat familiar. It's a little different than last time, but we have in the middle here the the types of materials that that are incorporated in phase one, phase three, phase 4. Um, and they're they're designated by number. So, we have storefront glass with metal finish and we have the decorative block and we have a smooth wall system and a linear wall system. Um, and and these numbers appear throughout these different images to show you how this type of material is consistent throughout phase one, phase three, and

phase 4. To Mr. Small's point, there was a mistake in this middle um of phase 4. And in fact, it's not going to be ephus. It'll be smooth stucco and it'll be the um smooth architectural block consistent with phase three. So the the the language that came in as phase four were mistakes and the intent is that it's to precisely mimic the materials that the planning commission approved for phase three. Um these are uh and again I'm I'll leave these here for a second for you to to take a look at and certainly you have them in your books, but this is building 400 that we're looking at first. This is the one that I did mention presents more like a restaurant. You can see a single entrance. This would be the view that you would have from the parking lot area. Um, and so that this would be a restaurant opportunity. And then building 500 on the south side presents more like a soft goods or retail. You know, perhaps you could have a fast food type place or a a fast casual they call it. Yeah. Sorry. I I when I say fast food, I was thinking like a yogurt shop. I wasn't thinking like a McDonald's. But um fast casual like a Chipotle or something like that. That's sort of like a um an opportunity in in that type of center or for soft goods, retail goods. Um so um you know I I I have um and can can certainly go through um these performance standards. In prior submiss submittals, we we did demonstrate I think not I think I know because the planning commission made findings as such, but we worked hard and made a lengthy presentation about how the phase three and really the overall um uh mixeduse center complies with all of these performance standards for the special development approval. Um, you know, I I think that when we were here in phase three, uh, again, we were showing the full picture, including phase four. And and when I was speaking

at that time, I was really talking about the connectivity of phase four and what you were seeing on phase 4. And phase four, as it comes in tonight, is virtually the same with some of the changes I talked about today as it was when I was here on phase three. And so, for that reason, we think that we've adequately demonstrated compliance with all these performance standards. I know staff has indicated as much in their report as well. Um so you know I guess I kind of want to go back to um to this image and maybe even I know we actually have been using the same image from the front. This is not the image of phase 4. This is an image of phase three but it's auh still considered the um you know similar to what we're going to look at. And maybe what I'll do is go to this one, which is which is phase four. Um, and this is like a quick aside, but but just may maybe it'll be helpful. Um, and I mentioned last time how privileged I felt to work on this project because this mall has been here a long time. Um, and I think what SJC is about to embark on here is going to be a an absolute gamecher for the area. I came from Talson this afternoon and I came up uh Harford Road and then found my way on a 24 making my way to Bolton Street and it was getting dark and I had my G GPS on uh and you could tell that you're coming up on something, right? And you see lights ahead and you and you're looking at my map and I'm seeing this and I get to Bolton and 24 and what a disappointment, right? I mean, the mall looks awful. And I was thinking to myself, I can't wait to come back here when this gets approved and when this is the marquee at the corner there. And I I I continue to feel privileged to be a part of this project. I hope you guys feel as much as being the ones who are we hope approving it. Um, of course, you approved phase three. Um, but it's just it's just such an incredible opportunity. Um, and and it's going to be a great thing for this town and we're very excited to to present it to you. Um, I would ask, um, because and

we've talked to to staff about this and I I know they've made their recommendation and of course they're not the final decision maker. I know that that it it can be tradition for the planning commission to ask to come back to another meeting to make sure that you address comments along the way. We feel like we're in a position where the comments are so minimal that staff would be able to ensure that our compliance with those comments can be met. Um, and that we we would humbly ask you all if you would consider it to um to approve this tonight. Um, again, I I kind of feel like this is almost the fourth time or really third time I guess on phase three and four that I've been here um on this and that you've that you've seen it. Um, and so we hope you feel comfortable enough as you did with phase three to approve phase four. Oh, one sorry, one other thing I'll show just because we have it. Um, we're obviously here on the site plan as well. We went through in a obviously in a um rendered version of what the site plan has, but the technical site plan is u the last um not the last pages. The last pages are the landscape plan. Um and then we have the maybe I flipped them actually.

This is not in there. No, it is. It is. Yeah, it is. It is. Um, in any event, the the actual plans, landscape plan and the site plan, um, are at the end of your book, and we're here also seeking approval of those as well. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I skipped over that. I was going on I was on a roll without my notes. So, so a couple things that were mentioned along the way um that we do want to follow up on. One is um your question about the truck uh uh navigation. And just a reminder, we did talk a lot about this in phase three and I know you know that and I I think you're looking for a refresher, which is which is great.

It happens to be this the red line 1230 saying on the street access truck access. That's right. That's right. Right. So is that your contention or is that the town's contention? Well, that that's the physical constraints of of the of I guess the geometry of this road is that trucks can't make that turn in. Well, it may not be able to make that turn in, but they could make turn out. Correct. Right. Yes.

Yeah. The the our worry because that was actually a condition of phase three um was that the the queueing on Bolton to be able to enter the site is short. uh and maybe five uh vehicles, you have one semi sitting in there and it's you're basically uh now blocking through traffic, right? And um also in order to keep people from going straight across or doing some things that they shouldn't be doing, we wanted those median islands in there to be able to keep keep that from happening. So that was that created problems with uh truck entering. Truck exiting is fine. They're

do whatever they want. That's just why some clarification. Yeah, I think that the plan is trucks can go in and out over here, cannot come in over here, but could go out over there. So, and probably will. Everything will come in from US1 then. Correct. That's right. Yeah. And remember, we think, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the only big trucks that you're going to see, the only tractor trailer type trucks would be for the Whole Foods. Everyone else is going to be more of a box truck type of delivery. Okay. And so the truck movements that we're talking about are for those big rigs and that that's really, you know, for one user, yes, they're going to be regular, but it's not going to be like, you know, all day every day.

So would fire department access be limited to just coming off route work? Oh, you mean fire trucks? I think so. They're going to come in any way they can. They'll hop right over that. No, you're right. They're coming in any way. No, they'll make it. They'll go over a curb. I I mean, they'll go over a curb. do whatever. Yeah. Yeah. We'll we will make sure that they're happy with the circulation before this all starts to to become where before building permit is issued. Okay. And we're still pending a state uh Yes. state survey. Yeah. Study. Another Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, I did notice you had the grocery store on the drawing this time. Yeah. Yeah.

No. No. Miss

We went from super secrecy to now just saying it out in the open, you know. Yeah. Um, so a couple other things mentioned along the way. The the addressing. Um, it's a very good question and of course we'll work with the the um the fire safety folks. I I've always in in certain jurisdictions you've seen it kind of be a battle between the 911 operators and then the fire department itself and then even the post office because the post office wants it to be easiest for them. Um, so there'll be some measure of working with all of them. But from a from a practical standpoint, I wouldn't be surprised if what happens here would be really a minimal number of street addresses and a bunch of sweet numbers. Um, and even on the GPS side of things, things are so technical now. It's not about necessarily where addresses, but it's a pinpointed like a a retailer would have their GPS coordinates by their name tied into Google. So when someone says, "I'm going to go there," then they're going to be told to park right in front of where that is because it's pinpointed in that way. Um, but regardless of whether it's suite numbers or individual addresses per building, we'll 100% work with uh with the fire company about that for sure.

I was just Matt Robinson uh SJC Ventures address 77 Hal Mill Road in Atlanta, Georgia. Yeah, we're we're 100% okay with doing internal streets. Um, we do that on a lot of our projects and if that's something that the fire department wants us to do to make it easier, no problem at all. you know, we we want to make it as easy just, you know, as it is for emergency services, but also for our patrons. So, and this is something that the planners came up with. So, we definitely want to make sure Beller Volunteer Fire Company and the police communicate with the uh the developer and everybody comes to an agreement.

Yeah, my experience is that happens sooner than later. It's not the type of thing that lingers till the end because people want to start rendering, you know, making their signs and all kinds of stuff and they want to be doing that while they're while they're out there even for deliveries and things like that like of materials to come build things. Um, getting addressing set up early is is helpful. that we were having problems with Tollgate Marketplace because their rear doors did not have the suite number on it

or the address. And so the police would be answering a call about a usually it's a false alarm, burglar alarm, and they they would be confused as to which door they're opening in the back, you know. So that's that's another reason why we're looking at this. Um, and I I asked Caitlyn Pierce to come up uh to talk about the um the van accessible handicap spaces parking comment as well. Kate Pierce uh 5 South Main Street um Belair, Maryland. We are we have two van accessible spaces provided on the site. Yeah, it was basically a minor. Yep.

So, we're happy to take any other questions, of course. Um but that's our presentation. I have a few, but I'm going to yield to my partners. Any any comments from anybody? I mean, I think a lot was said phase three, especially from the landscape standpoint. So, I really don't have we touched on a lot of phase four, right? My only consideration just no access. I understand that.

I'm uh real comfortable with how amunable you are, you know, dealing with the town staff and uh I kind of agree with you. We don't want to see you back here. I I thank you. I think it's past my bad time. But uh I mean to deal with our planning department, they're uh we have all the uh confidence in them and uh I think that's the way that we should proceed. Thank you. The only the only comment I had was uh I didn't see a dumpster for building 500. I think you mentioned it. Yeah. You want to go ahead and

Sure. Yeah. So So this is actually an issue, Mr. shrines that we dealt with in phase three. Th this building, you may remember in the earliest meeting, had a dumpster on this side and there was qu and we were showing blue connectivity through there and and Kevin smartly said, "Well, how how you getting around that dumpster?" So, our solution there was that building uh 600 would would have their dumpster back here. And that's what building 500 is as well. And I I'll I totally admit and we would say it's not ideal, but in this circumstance, we actually think that it is because it it it keeps all the trash and refues away from the public realm even more than you know, we had a lot of um dispute or or you know, not dispute, but we had a lot of discussion about the screening of the facility over here in the middle of the parking lot. From our perspective, we're taking these and getting them completely out of there, and it becomes a bit of a hassle for um for the tenants. so to speak. But as Matt mentioned last time, it's not the type of hassle that is going to keep a marquee tenant from coming here that they deal with this stuff in any number of ways in any number of locations.

And the only other item I had, I'll hit on this again, is traffic and pedestrian crossings on the main strip going through there. Yeah, I take it you're going to add the same concept with the flashing lights and the raised walkways through that side. Yeah. So, I I think that's actually a concept. Um, and I it may or may not have come through this way, but it was a concept at the time in phase three that that's the intention to do all the way through. Okay. So, so it'll be a consistent that's the impression I got. I just went, if I may, it was a part of the phase three approval that that road coming all the way through.

When we approved the final plan for two and three, that was enumerated by Kate um was part of part of the final plan. I I think that you were a little leerary about some of these raised parkway uh walkways though because that's the way that these trucks are going to come in and you were concerned about the trucks not making it over. So I think we did it in a way can you remind how their function? I don't think they are raised. Right.

Right. So ju again this is all just as a reminder stuff we discussed on phase three. So the way that we handled it was through other traffic calming measures uh through uh different colored sidewalks, different materials and then also the flashing stop signs as well that were that were going to be throughout the site. Um, we verified that the curbs and everything, in fact, I think we widened it in some places in phase three to make it or maybe we narrowed it. We narrowed you narrowed at the inter.

We did narrow it, but it's still we still verified through truck turning studies that they come through the development and are not going to interfere with any curbs, but the the traffic calming measures um here were actually all approved as part of phase three. Thank you. Okay. Any more from the staff?

Chris and maybe Mad Tori can confirm this. It was my understanding I think yesterday that the developer has issued or sent to the Department of Public Works the sewer uh uh um work up and sheets and stuff to get started on the sewer line for phase two. Is that right? Okay. So, I heard the same I was at the same door you were. Okay. So, how's that coming along? So, it's almost done. Okay. Great. Sounds good. Thank you guys. Okay. Any more there's no problem.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean I those are so so it's a different well the way I heard Mr. Small was that those would need to be in place before the FA before there would be occupancy for phase two two. Yeah. So that from my from our perspective tonight that's just that's tied to phase two. But I did I actually sent myself an email so that I can let the phase two developers know. They may even be watching um but to let them know that that that's a guarantee and I I think that's their expectation anyway. I think as they're out there doing the type of ground level work to grade and set up a pad, I think that's probably when that work's going to happen.

Yeah. I think when phase one came in, they did not have a lot of the improvements done when they should have had it done. So, we bonded those improvements. I don't want to go through that process again because it's they have lots of time to be able to handle that. Any good presentation, Mr. Mud. you you missed the uh early versions of this. They were pretty tumultuous evenings up here a couple years ago, but it's been a it's been a very interesting um process and I think one that'll reap great rewards for the town in the next couple years and agree.

Following up on your aside, just briefly um what you saw today coming up and how for Lord the mall looked um Christmas Eve morning. I'm a member of the athletic club at Copper Mine across the street from the mall, really directly across from where phase two will go. And that morning, Christmas Eve day, I've never seen that gym more crowded than it was. Every parking space on that lot was full and I'm up on the walking track looking across over to the mall here. It was no last minute shoppers. Just it looked so sad. I thought, well, hope is on the way. Hope is on the way. Thanks to you guys in large part. Thank you.

Thank you. Uh this is the time where anyone else would like to speak out from the community or anyone else in the audience would like make any comments. This is your chance. Okay. Okay. I first move that uh the planning commission agrees that the proposed use meets the provisions of the 2022 comprehensive plan as required by town code section 16519. Second. All in favor? I now I move opposed.

I move uh the site plan at a minimum approval of the preliminary site plan is condition on the following. One, prior to building permit application, submissions of a final site plan for signature incorporating comments from this staff report and comments from the fire department, health department, soil conservation, Bair public works, town architectural consultant. Uh, number two, prior to approval of utility construction drawings, applicant must address comments from the Maryland American Water Company. Three, prior to signature of a final site plan, revision of the site plan based on exhibit A dated December 30th, 2025. Four, complete all site work on the final site plan prior to issuance of the final use and occupancy permit. A, construction of required improvements outlined in the town traffic impact analysis condition approval dated November 30th, 2025. Uh B, uh landscape installation. Number five, coordination of utility placement easements and right away with the Department of Public Works uh prior to building permit issuance. And six, provide one or more van accessible parking spaces.

All in favor? I. All opposed? Zero. I would make a motion landscape be approved on the following priority building issuance submission approval final appropriate comments of the streets to interior parking lot access addition area.

Second. All in favor? All opposed? Zero.

All right, Mr. Chairman. Special development for the mixed use center. Uh the special development for mixed use centers is based upon the following findings of fact that the applicant has adequately demonstrated adherence to section 165-53 I2G. Uh A the applicant has provided unified arrangement of building service areas parking signage and landscaping. B. The architecture, site design, lighting and signage in incorporate consistent design and theme elements and materials massing and facade design for the project that is in harmony with the character of the neighborhood. C. The internal circulation system is uh is B designed

is is designed through traffic.

Okay. Right. Correcting that. Uh C, the internal circulation system is designed to minimize uh through traffic and traffic conflicts within the project. Uh D, safe pedestrian movement and the provision of pedestrian walks within the parking lot and surrounding the building perimeter is considered in the design. E. All proposed establishments have vehicular service access either from an individual service drive space or from a common service yard. All loading, trash removal, compaction, or similar activities are segregated from public areas and screened from public view. F. Signs to identify the use of an occupant will be designed as part of the architectural design of the building. Proposed signage is conditioned for approval of the preliminary plan and is subject to review and approval by the planning commission. G directional andformational signs will be adequately provided and design and design coordinated. H center management is responsible for providing on-site security service. I a traffic and/or parking study has or was submitted and is under review. Jay, the owners of all lots have executed and recorded a development agreement with the town providing that all owners acknowledge and agree to be bound by performance standards as an overall scheme of development outlining all shared elements granting reciprocal easements to permit each owner to access to access any other owner's lot or parcel of land for the purposes of compliance with the town code and for either uh remediating any violation or to comply with the town code for the purposes of any approvals sought by any of the owners of the lot and agreeing

that the town shall permit enforcement of any portion of the town code upon one or more owners of any lot or parcel of land contained within the mixeduse center scheme of development. That's got to be the world's longest sentence. Second. All in favor? I I opposed. zero. That's all you get.

Atlanta. Yeah. Apologies for the AV. No, no, no. Thanks. Thanks for making it work. Thank you all very much. Thank you. Thanks for stay. Good to see you. Bye. Bye. Bye, everybody. Okay, folks. I just want to remind we still got a meeting going. So, if you want to have any conversations, just please be courteous and thank you all.

Okay. Under new business, item C, review of ordinance 851-25 amending the development regulations for cannabis and related uses. All right. I'm gonna I'll do a little bit and then I'll have Steve. Uh yeah.

What you have is that we um the town is looking to make sure that our cannabis regulations are consistent with the states. Uh we cannot be in conflict with the state. Uh and um and that's been enumerated to town council and and I and from several different sources. Um what the town board is now looking at is what you received um and uh back before Christmas in your package which is what was introduced uh in mid December. Um we have since done a lot of research on uh various influences on how to regulate cannabis. One is we looked at 12 15 other jurisdictions to see how they are handling uh their regulations regarding uh cannabis. We also relooked at the state law um and tracked down a lot of uh u various codes that we would that would influence how we would do this. including we talk with the U liquor board attorneys to make sure that their uh thoughts are heard. Um so that uh you'll see a long list of various uh um jurisdictions and how they do how they handle this. that allow allowed us to develop a alternative to what has been introduced, one that is a little less invasive. Um, and that's something that I think both uh Liz Thompson and Steve Chismar

will talk about. One last thing that we did include is we did a a little map that shows what parcels would be eligible for uh cannabis a cannabis business depending on again this is something that we've done uh and we have not ground truths ground truth that and something that will be taken care of over the next couple of days but uh this was literally finished about two hours ago. go. So I uh uh that's something for you to kind of reference with regard to um um

how we would regulate the the proposed ordinance would be the same or different for uh cannabis dispensaries as opposed to liquor stores. They'd be the same, right? That correctly or not? That's what we're going to talk about. Yeah, that's what we'll discuss. So, um, just to give a little background, um, Senate Bill,

uh, 215 was signed by the governor, um, back in April of 2025, didn't go into effect until July. Kevin and I sort of had this on the list of things to do. Um, this recently became kind of came to a head that required Kevin and I to immediately take action, notify the board, and take some action to get the ordinance started as you originally saw it. Okay. One of the key features that's problematic in the state law is um that's not in the ordinance, okay, is the state law provides a political subdivision, which is us, may not adopt an ordinance establishing zoning requirements for licensed dispensaries or what we refer to as cannabis businesses that are more restrictive than zoning requirements for a retail dealer licensed under this article. What retail dealer means is anything that has a liquor license, whether it's a restaurant, what we call a tavern or a liquor store that does, you know, goes in, buy a package, walk out the door, no on-site consumption. So, this has been a constant problem. This is a brand new law. It has not been tested yet. No one There's been a couple Well, there's been there's been threats of testing it. Um, and so we're trying to react to this as best we can under the circumstances. So when it was first done, we said, "Okay, we don't have we can't seem to locate any setbacks with respect to alcohol, these retail dealers as as they're referring to them because they don't they don't just said retail dealers. So basically what we did was is we took cannabis setbacks and we applied them

moving forward to taverns and liquor stores. We didn't want to create a lot of conf non-conforming uses. So we put the drop date in and that kept everyone who was currently operating okay under the old standard. So after further evaluation by the department, multiple conversations with that I've had with council for the liquor board as well as some other attorneys who do municipal law and several of them are like, "Oh my god, I'm glad you told me about this because my municipality hasn't taken care of this. This is so new." So, we've revised it to suggest to the board of town commissioners that the taverns, liquor stores, for the most part, I think there's a little tweaking that is being recommended to the board, um, be returned back to the original setbacks that it was under the code. Um Kevin and I sort of wanted to put in the the 100 foot step back from the residential as sort of uh okay look we're doing that here in cannabis right and we're doing it here in the taverns. So that's the justification for that. So um it's not in reaction to any of the public outcry. It is simply more information that we have. we're sending it on to the board at making, you know, recommendations for revisions. So,

a liquor store have a dispensary That's a good question. Um, that's a good question. I don't see anything in the code currently. I mean, I didn't know I don't think I don't think the state accommodates that. I I I don't see anything that would restrict it. Yeah. Um, either way, yeah, we currently don't have any cannabis businesses. Yeah, that's somewhat unknown right now. But I I think in talking to uh liquor board representative that they indicated that you couldn't do it, but yeah, believe me, there's lots of research that needs to happen.

Yeah. and and there's there's going to be some changes more changes to the taverns and liquor stores because of the fact when in in discussing these changes in light of the cannabis businesses the attorney for um the liquor board said wait a minute Liz you're missing the code is missing this section concerning waving setbacks on liquor stores and taverns and some more clarity things that we think might help the town and might help the liquor board too in and future businesses is so they'll come later on when we have a chance to work on them. So I hope that you know gives you an idea. Did you have a question? Okay. I know you don't like it.

Well, my question is going to be no matter what we agree to, it doesn't matter. State law already is going to write us. That's pretty much correct. Yeah. I I mean I'm not trying to push it down anybody's throat. Um it it's you know a hot topic so to speak but you know the state law is controlling and we we we need to make sure that our code is consistent with state state law. So

from the commissioner standpoint we put a letter out to the public because they saw all this who saw it but you know like Liz said we're only doing this because the state's saying we got to do some stuff. I, you know, I'm not speaking for everybody, but my perspective is I I don't want to change anything on the alcohol side. Well, you know, there there's nothing wrong with it. There's nothing broke. Why would trying to change something? Okay. So, and I think a lot of the commissioners feel similarly about it. Um, I just think that if you apply these setbacks that they're saying 500 feet and a,000 feet between dispensaries, there's also same same language. It says 1,000 ft between dispensaries. If you applied that to liquor, I mean, we the mall was dead because Bonefish has a liquor license and and a thousand feet from there, you can't have another restaurant that serves alcohol. Main Street, you're not going to be able to put anything more on Main Street. I mean, our town is basically locked up. And I can't believe that they meant that for all municipalities in the entire state and the c, you know, Baltimore City. Okay. I I can't believe that that was their intent when they put that language in there. My feeling is it only pertains to dispensaries. And that's what the wording says, dispensaries. Doesn't say dispensaries and retail dealers.

Even though it is under even though it is under the Yeah. Beverage and and and all, but yeah, I'm not arguing the right the right or wrong of it, but I mean, you know, Kevin and I, this is the reason why we're here, right? is because of the fact that we were struggling with trying to incorporate very conflicting language into our code without causing multiple problems. And one of those major problems is is to say, okay, you can't treat cannabis very simply any different than a liquor store or a restaurant.

Well, how am I supposed to do that? You know, so I got to change all the setbacks for liquor stores and taverns and some of which have been there for years and I'm going to concreate all these non-conforming use. I don't want to do that either because the law says I shouldn't be doing that. So, I think this may be one of those things where, and I hate saying this because I wish I had a better answer, but we're going to have to put it through. We're going to have to stand up and say, "No, this is this is what we are doing what we were supposed to be doing." And if that means that you someone doesn't agree, well, then you're going to have to have the judge tell me I'm wrong. So, basically, February 10th is changes

arbitrary date. Arbitrary date based on the timing of Yeah. everything on the the original, right? Yeah. So basically that date would pass. So in other words, if you pass this, you're grandfathering everybody in Yes. It has an existing use. Yeah. But we may not even be putting that that version forward. That's something that you need to look at. Is the version that you received back in mid December uh preferred or is the version that you received tonight which I know or you earlier today, right?

Uh um is something that you is easier to to to recommend. It's really up to you as far as a recommendation. Yeah. I mean the second version basically doesn't apply any of those setbacks to the alcoholic beverages. It does add the F feet from a residence, right? For alcohol, for liquor stores, alcohol beverages, but which is the same for for cannabis, but then the rule, the law would only be we'd only be doing the 500 foot setback for um cannabis. Now, did the new version deal with the houses of worship for? It added houses of worship, which we looked at to make sure that there were no

issues uh that presented themselves. uh like you one of the things if you look at IBC IBC is very close to a manual because it's not within 300 feet so it is fine

okay so just to clarify why that's being added in the state law for alcoholic beverages side of that code has two classes that the state law um uh has set out what setbacks are applicable from the liquor standpoint point of view and it's schools and it is houses of worship. Our current code without any amendments did not have any setback to houses of worship. So, we're just cleaning that up to make it match the current code. So, if you got a house next door, it has a daycare center.

Doesn't matter for a liquor store standpoint. Doesn't matter. It would matter for a dispensary because the the I mean we could add a daycare center if the town so chose but it's not required. It's required for the cannabis to have that setback. What's the difference between a liquor store and dispensary? Liquor store. Well, I mean moralitywise, is that what you're asking me? No, I just uh dispensary is for cannabis people. Dispensaries for cannabis. Cannabis. That's the word for cannabis dispensary. Not a liquor dispensary. Oh, gotcha. When we were growing up, you went to

across from the firehouse. Yeah. Well, so that's what I was Okay. Yeah. Okay. Right. Now, so dispensary is the Yes, sir. Before I came up, I read on the social media the statement the town put out today signed by the commissioners and I thought I understood thing. Now I'm getting more confused. I'm hearing that the state requires us to have comparable standards for marijuana dispensaries and liquor stores. Right. There's language in there that indicates that it has not been tested and when we initially put the ordinance in place, we were in a real rush with that. The state the state has written a poor Yes. poorly report but it is the law.

That's what's in the statute. Yes. It's in the law right now. until someone changes and yet and we're we're by this proposal we want to make it more restrictive for a marijuana dispensary to come in than for a additional liquor store to come in. Correct. And and the the state law requires why are we doing that? But I can say that based on one reason is because if we change the liquor store uh setbacks, it will be will be creating a myriad of um non-conforming uses. And that's the

understand I'm just this is just a question now, not an editorial comment, but why why do we feel the need to be more restrictive on marijuana dispensaries than liquor stores? Okay. So, we're not really being any more um restrictive from the state law perspective on cannabis, at least this is my legal argument, than we are on liquor stores from the state law requirements. What what does the state require us to do? So, literally right out of Senate Bill 215, it says a licensed dispensary, this is on cannabis side, may not locate within 500 ft of a pre-existing primary or secondary school in the state or a licensed child care center or registered family law. So, I just literally copied it word for word, right? or a pre-existing playground, recreation center, library, public park, or public or place of worship or a thousand feet from another dispensary under this title. Now, there's a exemption. We have the right to increase the distance between dispensaries under that section to no more than half a mile. The town and there's a deadline for doing that. The town did do that. The town did adopt that. And so, that is the law in in the town of Belair. They have to be within a half mile of each other. So, we're doing exactly for cannabis what the state is telling us that needs to be done. Later on in the statute, it says that has this generalized language that you can't treat it any differently. Now, I think part of the argument is is that you can't say, okay, you got to go get five variances, two special exceptions, and four planning commission approvals before you can have a dispensary. I don't think it's saying that. That makes sense. That's what it's trying that's what that statement was trying to prevent.

That's what Yeah, that's what be my argument. Basically, if our ordinance says 500 ft, state, we're fine. Yeah, except except you're not complying with the other part about being consistent between liquor and cannabis. But that's inconsistent in the sense that you go and look in I guess county.

Yeah. Saturday. Yeah. buy a six. But see, that's because the liquor laws are very different. So there is section for Baltimore County in the state code. There's a section for Harford County. There's a section for Andorana County, PG County, and the like. So when we're changing it or keeping it at 300 ft for a liquor store or tavern, we're keeping it with the Harford County section of the liquor license. So municipalities.

Four municipalities. Exactly. So when you talk about that generic lang language of we can't treat one more than the other. That's why I love that that we found the statute for the that the liquor board gave me the statute for Harford County setbacks because I'm saying I don't care what that says. State law for liquor says X Y and Z and that's what I'm going to do until you tell me that this generalized language trumps what has already been the law for god knows how long. I mean it sad to me from the state's perspective they did they wanted to make it liquor they should state the canvas follows whatever the county

exactly and they could have said you know what and then that's that they could have said that my argument would be is follow what the state says and let them come at you well then fix your law right tell me what your law means right well and that's if you look at some of those other um jurisdictions, they kind of punt it. They several of them are like, "Oh, we'll just follow what the state does without really looking into what that really means." Yeah. And um the like right now we're going property line to property line for cannabis because cannabis has to stay away from a park. Well, a park doesn't have any structures. Yeah.

So, there's no way to to to go to a building because the parks typically doesn't have buildings. So uh whereas if you look at the liquor store or the taverns, they are building the to building. So um that because they're not trying to keep away from parks in their restrictions and one of the things is is that we the the state law conflicts within itself and it's very hard to follow and I think a lot of these other jurisdictions uh you know whatever whatever we'll figure it out later.

Yeah. this um cannabis eligibility map. Am I reading these blocked in areas this would be that in theory if somebody came and said I want to open a marijuana dispensary they would be zoning eligible. Yes those

what what we uh they can't have cannabis. I don't think any of the shopping centers will have cannabis anyway because they're no one no one wants to piss off all their tenants. If if a if we pass the uh ordinance as proposed, which does differentiate between the two, um we still would be able to in good faith tell somebody came in and said, "I'd like to open a marijuana dispensary. I'm licensed by the state of Maryland to do it." There's places you can do that. And again, this is for what you have in front of you. Please, that is a draft. So, it's it's it has not been vetted. Uh because we we first cut first cut. Yeah. And it's

well one of the things is that that I need to needed I couldn't get a hold of Liz today to talk about this but the we treat the U Harford Mall as a one entity. It's one project area even though it's subdivided three different times. So if the the way that the law reads is if you're going property line to property line, you're not going to property line to project area. Um, so that's something that we need to figure out an interpretation for. And uh, and there's, you know, a few other other minor things, but it's it for the most part there's we can't completely regulate out cannabis. That's illegal. There's about 20

40 acres of property. There's there's something in that you could defend what you're planning to do by here. We're not we're not uh blocking them. There's plenty of opportunity right here. Well, they own the lot and the land. Well, if the state wants to do it, that's up to them. That's right. That's right. They've not next to the fish and wildlife. I will say this issue has occupied local social media second only to the board of education activities up there.

You know, I mean, sometimes when you try to help people, it backfires and it ends up on social media. And that's what happened. Kevin and I tried to help somebody who was in the process and they took to social media and started running their mouth and saying things that were incorrect. Um it's very unfortunate. I you know I sometimes you just can't help people you know. So the the idea was absolutely

and I will say this from the bottom of my heart from the day Kevin and I started down this road. There was never infinite intention to stop new taverns and liquor stores from coming into Bair. We were trying to make this work between two conflicting statutes and a generalized thrown together thing from the general assembly and you're stuck between a rock and a hard place and we're trying to make it work. So, um, you know, I hope you guys will, you know, give your feedback to the board and we'll take it from there. And you're finding out a lot of these other municipalities and counties are in the same boat. Exactly. They're going, "What are you talking about? Senate Bill 215." Huh? We didn't know about that. Right. Deadines again.

The the governor passed it in April of 2025 and it became effective in July of 2025. Yeah. So, we're just Yeah. And I wouldn't be surprised final update. I wouldn't be surprised. It's kind of trickled out like you know cannabis went legal and then they the general assembly came in they tweaked some stuff and then we adopted it and then they tweaked some stuff again this year and this is the last most recent tweak. Has anybody expressed the desire to open up a dispensary. Yes. Yes. You've got a couple calls actually since it went legal. Correct. I've had probably four or five over the last uh eight months. Okay.

10 months. That's also most of them. It's also precipitating why we need to get this straight. Yeah. Most of them are people testing the waters. Sure. looking for an opportunity and want to almost pre-develop. Yeah. Yeah. Well, with a clear conscience, I couldn't vote for something that would allow it in a residential area. No. And it shouldn't be in a residential area. No. Oh, yeah. Where? Where? Yeah. Right there. Kay Street. Wait a minute. Where? Where? Right here. H Street. still Hay Street.

Yeah, it's sort of Hay Street right at the corner. Right at the corner of um Oh, Hayes and Thomas. Yeah. Alisan there, right? Thomas, the old Pepe's lot and and Cat Corner from it. Yeah. Right. Old Peppy's and then the one of them is the old Pepes lot and the other one. They're not residential within 100 feet. So yeah. Yeah, there's not residential. Believe me, we'd like to make it 500, but that's just not going to happen. Yeah, we can't do that. Everything Everything Yeah. around that is all commercial, right? If it was I would agree with you if it was further in to Howard Park.

I live right around the corner. Yeah, I know. Around the corner, too. Around any corner. So any any recommendations? Any feedback or recommendations? I don't see what you guys have written. That is the one from today. Yeah. Just wanted to make sure. But was it the one?

Yeah. Yeah. We don't have a choice. I mean, you know, you could you I mean, about the only other thing you could kind of tell us is, you know, if you think the taverns should be tweaked to include other classifications such as parks or I don't think there's any need to or there's no complaint or no issue, but I mean that's pretty much it. Unfortunately, if that's the case, I mean, based on what we heard tonight, I mean, I made the comment just phase three and phase four. It wasn't listed on the map. Yeah, but they're talking about restaurant.

That wouldn't work, right? There's no way you know somebody's coming in putting in a restaurant there. If we go to that extreme, right? Yeah. Exactly. I'm not saying you shot. I'm just kind of giving you an idea because you're like, "Oh, it's just state law." You know that, you know, plus the thousand foot between dispensaries, meaning a thousand feet now between alcohol establishment. Bonefish has a license. Yeah. I don't think you can open up another restaurant in the mall complex. That whole that whole 30 acres. Well, I mean, it's that's why I say I don't think they really meant that when they passed the law.

Some of these will also go away once they start construction on the apartments. Yeah, we're not showing until the apartments are under construction. They're not vested. Therefore, we can't restrict the areas around the mall. Yeah. Yeah. But as soon as they do, then it's residential and then in Europe. Yeah. Right. So, this the cannabis is we're talking about liquor stores and and dispensaries. We're not talking about taverns. Taverns is a little different, right? In other words, my You can't go in a liquor store and start drinking, can you? I'm sorry. Say that again, Pete. You cannot go into a liquor store and start drinking. That's correct.

So, my thing is you shouldn't be able to go into a dispensary and start chewing and smoking. Can't you can't you can't There's no on-site consumption permitted in the town. All right. Is that somewhere in here? I think it's in the um It is in there. It was in the That's state requires that. So, it's Well, the state gives the municipality or county a choice and the town made that choice to not allow on-site consumption. Correct. Okay. I I couldn't download the new version. So, I was trying to Sorry about that. That's all right. It was my fault. But, uh, does it say in in the old version it said something about on-site consumption?

Yeah, you have that on page three. cannabis business performance standards and then operation onsite consumption establishment. Yeah, I didn't the state license even allow leave that in. They do. That's being left in. Okay, good. Yeah, they do allow if you chose so choose. Law enforcement was opposed to allowing any kind of M you Chuck Moore was imposed. So, you know, the commissioners certainly agreed with that. Never heard of that. Where can I go for that? Yeah. Okay.

We call you a smoking lounge. Drive-thru. That was something we could add. You guys added prohibited by the one in um choose between option one and option two. And then any changes you want to do to option two. Well, I don't know if it is. I mean, if you so choose that one. I assumed it was. I might be wrong. Welcome to the store. I'm going to abstain. I'm going to abstain because my view of all this is out of the mainstream and uh I don't feel threatened by uh marijuana dispensaries and I also don't want to sign on and recommend something that the town board that we know is out of compliance with the current state law. Okay.

So, I'll just sit this one out. No recommendation for me. with option two.

If you want a grandfather, that's Well, that would have been one. Um, but if the one you got tonight would be the one that I think you're talking about. Are there challenges coming to the state from other municipalities? Um, I don't know how to say this in a kind and gentle manner. I wish because I guarantee you if there was some sort of mounting of municipal resources to challenge it, I wouldn't be surprised if town Belair didn't sign on to that one. You know, I am not aware of any though.

I would say get used to it from the state of Maryland. You're going to get on any number of fronts. You're going to get them telling you how you're supposed to do any number of things. Oh yeah, that's a that is that's coming and the way it is and going to be it's one of the actually Maryland I think is one of the only states that I know of that doesn't allow their municipalities or counties to opt out they do I couldn't get any in places look like the perfect spot in town but we don't do that you have to go to Boulder

yeah so they they allow you to do that whereas Maryland does And also Maryland doesn't give the localities much tax benefit at all. States keeping it. Yep. Talking about state legislative stuff. Um I ran into Jake Taylor and there's an article he's supposed to be sending me. The governor dropped his uh next session initiatives investing and affordable housing back on the table. So, you'll be probably getting potentially something on that, too.

Also, Massachusetts is looking at uh making cannabis, recreational cannabis illegal again. I don't know if it's going to go anywhere, but I saw that. So, let's back up for a second. Sure. Say you go with option two or whatever it a business opens up and they do it for a dayare. Are they not? No. So we say you can't do it because there's a liquor store.

No. Because what what would happen is is the the the laws are generally written where if the restricted use cannabis liquor store tavern is already in existence and a daycare center wants to come in, they can't. It's it's the the burden is on the cannabis liquor store tavern not to locate within that pre-existing use. There was some language in the statute about well if you wanted to come in you know next to it I think it was a school for the liquor stores that's up to you.

One of the best things you have going for you that there are whatever you end up passing you do have the reality an applicant come in here and open up a dispensary. Yeah. That's good. Otherwise, it would challenge. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. So, you know, directed, well, here's where you can go and where you can't. And I think that's what the state sort of means when it gives the general idea that you can't make it more difficult. They don't want the municipalities saying it's right or wrong. Have a deacto banning.

Correct. By zoning it basically out of your town because you could do that. You can have them, but you've got to be 10,000 feet away from the nearest structures. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Or we or we send them through 5 million layers of approvals and you know that kind of stuff. At least in true applies to cannabis. Okay. So, how do we go about this? Recommendation that we do with option two. which is this. Yes. The least intrusive. Okay. To alcohol. So, we have a recommendation to go with option two. Is that a motion?

That would be a motion. A motion. Second. All in favor? Option two. One abstain. One abstain. Four eyes. Okay. Send it to the board. Move for second. All in favor? I thank you guys.