Baldwin County Commission Regular - Regular Meeting

All right. So, uh, welcome to the, um, July 21st work session, um, county commission. Uh, I'm going to ask, uh, commissioner Gruber if he'll lead us in the invocation and commissioner McKenzie will follow us with a pledge of allegiance. Please stand.

Dear heavenly father. We thank you for allowing us to be here today as we work on the business with the County Commission. Also, guide us so that we can make the best decisions in our decisions that we make today. Please watch over our first responders, our men and women who serve in the armed forces, and just watch over each and every one of us as we go through our day In God's name we pray.

Amen. Please join me in a pledge of allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you.

Thanks, y'all. All right, commissioners, we're going to work on getting our consent agenda set. We've got item CA1 under administration. Everybody okay with that? Okay.

Yes.

Yeah, I'm good with that. We've got an archives and history item.

I'm good.

All right, we're good with that. Budgeting and purchasing, any question on that? Wanda's 13 Islands.

I have a question on CE6. I looked at the, it's about a Tahoe. What department is it going to? Does anybody? Brand new Tahoe? $77,000?

It's for commission.

For the commission?

For Commissioner Underwood, yes.

I'd like to pull that from the consent. I just feel like that's... My opinion, I don't know how many miles is on your vehicle that you want to turn in?

You can pull it. You can set this one.

Okay. If you would pull that item C6, put that on other staff.

Then I got a question on CE9. There was a... 50,000 increase change order for high note road. Is that just something they underbidded or something? Something happened with that? Why it's 50,000?

No, when they started excavating for the field material, they realized there was a lot of bad unsuitable material that would not have supported the road. So we had to over excavate, bring in more material and build up the road a lot thicker than we initially thought we would have to.

All right. Thank you. I appreciate that.

No problem.

I got one on CE 11, unless somebody else got one. Okay. It's a credit that we're getting for the central annex. I saw that. That was great. But have we decided, Frank, what we decided to do with between the two pieces of glass, that little gap, have we decided as a commission what to do with that yet to keep a safety hazard? Soon.

We did have the architect go back and look at that, and it's not an issue. We got certification from the architect that it's compliant as built, and it was not a concern once they did a professional review of it.

Okay. So they're saying it's not a safety hazard or a concern. But if we tried to put somebody's little finger in there, some little kid, because I'm worried that in the future something like that's going to happen and then we've got a lawsuit. I just want to bring it up.

Maybe we can look at it again later.

I'm just worried about that. Thank you, Frank. That's all on my end.

Anybody else got any questions on that? All right. All right. Next up, we got our building inspection items. I have asked for both of those to be pulled off of our consent agenda and put on other staff as well. And that's what we're going to do. Elected officials, one lump sum payment. for the county sheriff's office retirees. I'm good.

No, I'm good. I'm glad that we're able to do that for the sheriff's office and for the county employees, for the retirees.

Adoption of the Baldwin County Merchant Operation Plan Flood Warning and Response Annex.

I'm good.

Good. Yep.

We got Terry's item here. for her garbage service rates?

I'm good, but I'm not at the same time. It seems like we go up every four years with the prices for garbage. When are we gonna say it's enough? What can we get with ADEM and say, why are you going up for the tipping fees? Is that something that we need to get with the legislators and say, okay, why is ADEM going up? Because we got some people in this county that it's gonna hit them hard. And I know we have to do it for your reasons, but is there anything we can do as a body, get up with our legislators and say, why is ADEM going up on their tipping fees?

so i did go and meet with adm once this was proposed back in may and since 2008 when they implemented the dollar per ton they have not gone up on this fee they are running in a deficit and have been running in a deficit for quite some time so they're going up 30 across the board this is all permit fees this is the dollar per ton also so it's not just you know It's not just the dollar per ton. It's everything. And, you know, Magnolia has a ton of permits, as does our other locations. So I think a couple of years back, they went to, rather than a five-year permit cycle, they went to a 10-year permit cycle. I don't think that really helped the situation any. You know, the fees went up at that time for permits, but it just prolonged them getting their money. So I don't. I mean, you could go to the legislators, but if they don't have enough money to run, 90% of their budget is personnel. And I asked a ton of questions about their budget. Just how are you funded? Where does your money come from? A lot of it is EPA and federal funds. A lot of it is this dollar per ton and some from the general fund. But, you know, if they don't have enough money to run, then I don't think the legislature is going to run. is going to do anything.

And I get it. I understand our reasoning or why your reason is to raise it. But what I'm worried about in the future is that we're doing this recycling plan and we want people to get into this program too, but they can't afford their own garbage right now. And I'm worried about that in the future. So. It's just my concerns.

I know that it's... Our rates are really, really low. Yeah. Well, if they are... Across the state, I did go and I looked at all the largest counties. I took a 20-county survey, and we are in line. We're not overcharging. And I will say that our collections budget, our residential... It's a little over $10 million. Just... the tipping fees for, we are our largest customer, just our tipping fees is about $1.2 million. So, I mean, that's, that's a huge percent of their budget, just disposal costs for, for, for us. So, um, you know, not to mention that the price of the same thing that drives the price of, you know, fuel carts, all that different stuff. I mean, it's all gone up before we transitioned to the authority. I came and said, I think it would be better if we did smaller incremental increases, and we haven't really been able to do that. I do think it would be easier for citizens to swallow if we did do something like that. But now we haven't done it in four years, and we have a 30% on top of everything else.

And I get what you're saying. I truly do. And I've asked you this before. If you could do this for me, is to look into another vendor with these garbage cans.

We have five vendors for garbage cans. None of them are great. I mean, the wear and tear of it.

There's eight people that live down my driveway. My garbage can, my neighbor's garbage cans, all of them are crushed and they're cracked. And I know that's an expense and nothing's free. So I didn't know if there was, and I've asked you this before, but I just want the public to know if we could just look at something where they can make them stronger and on the sides make them whether when they squeeze it it doesn't crack them and that's just something if you could just in the future look at look at something like that we do that we we have looked at that um that's why we continually purchase from different vendors but it doesn't really seem like it matters no they just want you to keep buying and keep buying and keep buying so and then our landfill gets a recycle of a bunch of plastic so i guess

We have been able to bail those and recycle them, which has been nice, but I do hear what you're saying. I wish we didn't have to replace so many carts either. I mean, it's a lot more work on us having to do that, so I get it.

Thank you.

You're welcome. So where are we at on this?

I don't like it, but I understand the concept behind it, so I'm good.

Consent?

Yeah, we'll put it on consent.

Skip and I already said we were okay.

All right. So we got our finance and accounting.

Yeah, I asked Ms. Tara, Tara, excuse me, I always do it wrong. Would you mind just come up and just explain that little, one, two sentences about the $10 million line of credit? That way citizens know what it's about. Yes. Well, I know how some of us are up here. Make it short.

Absolutely, absolutely, and good morning. So this emergency line of credit really is a $10 million revolving facility with the bank, and it's designed to give us an immediate access to funds after a major storm. or emergency events. So if it follows the storm, recovery costs up front can be great and we'll wait for reimbursements like FEMA or state reimbursements insurance. So I really think of it more like an insurance policy. We hope we never need to draw on it and in most years we may not, but when a major storm hits, the financial impacts could be great. So it's a safety net. It'll stay at a zero balance unless we draw on it. And it's really cheap, basically, to keep on hand. So it's just another kind of insurance policy, if you will.

Thank you so much.

I'm good with that. It's a good thing. Next up, we've got our highway items. We've got six items on highway. I'm good. All right.

Yes.

All right, personnel items. CR1 through CR11.

No, I'm good. I'm really like CR2 for sure for the retirees. Thank you all. They deserve it.

That's what I texted you about when he's on vacation and didn't have any phone service. Kept getting people calling me, asking me about that. I knew it was coming up soon that we would be voting on this, so I'm glad that we're doing it today.

Yeah, Roger gave me a heads up a couple months ago when it first came out. I mean, they're working on something.

All right. Good with that. All right, so next up, we are at our public comments section. Don't know if we have anybody signed up. Do we have people signed up to speak? Okay, no people signed up to speak. Is there anybody here today that's wishing to address the commission that has not signed up to speak? If so, this is going to be the order of business. You'll come up here to the podium, state your name, address, and if you're speaking on behalf of a group of people, you'll get a five-minute presentation. And if anybody else wants to speak on the same matter, as long as it's not covering the same exact thing than what he just said, you're more than welcome. Anybody can speak on this. you know whatever y'all gonna be talking about so just state your name where you're from for the record and then we stay on topic we maintain decorum in here and be concise and respectful and avoid loud outbursts and eruptions and that kind of stuff it usually worked pretty well so I'll manage that part of the meeting so if you would like to come up here to the podium and and it'll be five minutes on that one who would ever set the timer

Well, I appreciate the time. Thank you. Good morning. My name is Brandon Carlson. I live in Summerdale, 18105 County Road 73. I'm a newly appointed town councilman with Summerdale. And I'm here with pretty much the whole town council, our mayor and some concerned citizens to help illustrate how important this issue is to our town. i'd like to address the subdivision regulation and building regulation agreement that the town has with the county the signed and agreed upon contract has more than a year left on it but is due but due to a technicality in the law we've lost that the remainder of that year um this is leaving our town with and i apologize i've got to read this i'm just trying to make sure i hit all the points here um that's left our town exposed to unregulated development and we recognize that this change is inevitable and we're not contesting that Uh, we're just hoping that you'll consider our unique situation regarding this issue. Uh, that being that Summerdale is a small Island in a sea of unzoned County land and other, you know, other, other towns in the County are protected by that County zoning on their perimeters. And we don't have that protection as a district 18 is for whatever reason it's unzoned. Um, now the, uh, with the shortened term length of this agreement, it's been proposed to my knowledge that the County take over the building regulations while allowing Summerdale to continue to contact, to collect the building permits, uh, until the year end. Um, which we appreciate, uh, our humble request is to allow Summerdale to maintain control of the building regulations as well until that year end. Uh, we feel that this would provide the time needed to petition the county to zone are currently unzoned district. Obviously this doesn't happen overnight. There's a petition process, um, to lobby the county for the zoning. And, um, you know, that's why if you'd allow us to maintain our regulations just till the end of the year. we believe that we can get what we need to help the county in the zoning of our district. And we're not asking to extend this contract beyond what was originally agreed upon. We just need a little help from you guys to help us, give us some time so that we can get our ducks in a row. I know that our Planning and Zoning Commission has drafted a letter. You all should receive it, if not today, shortly. They are well on board with helping the county do whatever is necessary so that we can get this zoning protection around our town. This is a very big deal for Summerdale and our citizens. The potential for unregulated development conjures up fears of data centers and solar farms and pig farms, strip mining, whatever you wouldn't want on your front door. These are the things that are keeping our citizens up at night. We're not against development. We're not against developers. We understand that Baldwin County is a great place. We understand that the secret is out and people are moving here in droves. Our County is busting at the seams. The thing that we, you got to look at what is drawing the people here. You've got people across the country that are leaving urban sprawl that are leaving city centers and they're drawn to our rural charm. And we've got that, which is great, but it's limited. And when it's gone, you can't get it back. So our, our little town needs your help. And that's what we're asking for is just a little bit of time so that we can, like I said, get our ducks in a row.

okay thank you so much thank you does anybody else wish us to speak on this topic good morning my name is randy ferris and i live in summerdale i'm the current mayor there summerdale and this has been a big learning curve and as we're putting our pieces together we're seeing that a lot of these pieces are all floating around but yet they're all connected So last night we had a meeting about what's going on with us in the county. We have an informal survey petition already composed last night. We had 61 names of people wanting to petition to get District 18 zoned. So I just wanted to let you guys know that we are actively pursuing to try to get a petition going so we can have the unzoned part of our county, our district, so we can try to regulate, try to have more of a control of what's going on in our own backyard. And any help that you give us, we really appreciate it. We're all in the same county. We're all here together. So I feel like we can work together and make this place a better place than what it is already. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Chairman, do you mind if I say something? Absolutely. You know, Mayor and the City Council, I've tried to, I understand your concerns and I just want to be transparent with you. When I first got on the county commission, when Chrissy Elliott came up with that law, uh, I liked the law. I like it that, you know, if you're in the county, you're in the county, if you're in the city, you're in the city. But I understand the smaller towns, what their issues are. I had Magnolia Springs all upset with me when I first got on the county because I voted against it. But I understand this concerns that you're having. And like I said, at the beginning, I wanted y'all to have it for the, you But it seemed like from the commission side that as a body, it wasn't going to happen. So that's the reason I tried to fight for you to get at least the permitting side. I have no problem, and I want you all to understand that, I have no problem to extend it to December 31st of this year. That is to let the new county commission make that decision. And that's because I don't want to put something on their plate that they say, well, we didn't have nothing to say about that. So I don't have a problem for both, for you all to have that, just my opinion, just for me. So, yeah, that's up to the chairman. Yeah.

Yes, sir.

And thank you for those kind remarks. And we understand that. We also understand that we have a state law that we have to adhere to. We are in agreement with that. We don't necessarily like it, but we know that has to be done. We're just asking to give us a little more time so we can try to put some pieces in place that should, quite frankly, they should have been done before. They weren't, so now we're playing catch up. So let's try to get it where we can make it palatable for us as a little community. So we're just asking to just give us a little more time to try to put these pieces together pieces in place and if the county regs are one thing, the municipal regs are another, if we get those more in line, then we're good with that. Right now, there's a big disparity between the two and we're just trying to make it work together.

And I think that's something that you can do in the future with our staff is if we can get both of them together and match, I think the county commission would probably.

We'd love that because we're all here together, so we're all living here together, so let's make it palatable, workable for everybody. That's our request. And thank you all for listening again.

Thank you, Mike.

Anybody else? Yes, sir.

Thank you, Commissioner Ball. I'm a citizen. I'm glad our town's here. Today, we plan on issuing a letter for a petition. When we went through all the rules and regulations, it's going to take about four months to get this far sent into probate, get the numbers that we have to get 10%. So for them to ask for six months, really what we need four months to do it just try to save the town because because as citizen of the county I do live at old County Road 73 I'm not in city limits is we're afraid that it's just gonna choke the city down with buildings or solar things and if this goes through on the 24th, if it's a wild, wild west and people come, they can be grandfathered in even this. And that's what happened with the solar with Stockton. Now they're saying, well, they're grandfathered in. Y'all have the opportunity to stop it today and at least let the citizen vote. If the citizens decide it's not for us, every one of these people I'm sure will be happy that what the citizens got out and spoke. But give the citizens a chance and y'all will be getting a copy of this today. you or the or the planning commission the county planning commission on your website it was kind of confusing so give it to y'all but then elsa said give it the planning commission so please consider giving us an opportunity and let the citizens have a say and not let everything come flying in and then say oh it's grandfathered again i appreciate y'all's time i appreciate your kind words thank you

And every time it fails because the farmers do not want it. Yeah, but I've said the farmers do not want it. And they have defeated it three times since I've been in office.

Last night, I'm a farmer. We have 140 acres. We had three other farmers there that have quite a bit of land. So I'm hoping they've seen it. They see what happened in Stockton.

I hope it does because...

Commissioner Gruber, to your point, yes, we had 61, I have the list, 61 people signed the petition last night. Before we got it all compiled, we had several farmers that were asking about what's the benefit of doing this? And we explained to them, you know, if you do this, And the county has their building regulations, and then someone comes right in right next to them that's unzoned, and they can do what they want to. So a lot of them were leaning toward that last night. And I understand if I'm an old farmer and I'm an old country boy in Mississippi, I understand that. You're out in the country, you want your own. With the way things are going, we have to understand that things are changing. Oh, yeah. I think a lot of the farmers are realizing that and they're willing to concede at least being zoned so we can try to control some of it. You know, that goes all the way to kind of route 20.

Yes, sir. So it's part of it. there was a big chunk of it now that has been incorporated into the city of Foley as well. All that Delaney property, or what used to be your Sherrill Oil Company, You know, that's all went into the city of Foley now with that big development that's going on. But, yeah, there's a lot of hodgepodge places. Yes, I agree. You know, and you couldn't have a tough time, you know, because they, you know, some of them are just hard-headed.

Before, I think, it's valid to what you're saying. But now, when people are seeing what's going on, and it's right now in their backyard.

Yeah.

And unfortunately, what happened up in Stockton area, I think that opened a lot of people's eyes. And so we have more willingness to get on board now than we have before. So we just let you know that we have a petition already started, informal, once we start getting pieces in place. We already have 61 names compiled just for that. And thank you for your time.

Thank you, Mayor. I'm going to invite Mr. Lundy up to the microphone.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to make a quick comment on the petition. And y'all may know, it may tell you some things that you already know and understand. But if you haven't consulted with the Planning and Zoning Department, not the Planning and Zoning Commission, but the department, and Selina Boykin's right back here in the back, there's a process for the petition to initiate zoning. It's a citizen-driven process. but there's already a set form for the petition that needs to be used, and I would really encourage, so you don't waste your time, and you don't lose time, to talk to Celina before you leave here today, and we can get you on the right track with the correct petition and the correct process. But it needs to be a citizen.

Okay. Okay.

citizen driven that's correct and neither can the county commission as an elected body it's per state law 100 citizen driven okay thank you thank you all right um hearing no more comments we'll go to commissioner requests well i guess i should take that back is there anybody else sitting in the audience that didn't sign up to speak to wish to speak once twice Three times. Okay. Public comments. Closed. Commissioner requests. Start with Commissioner Gruber. No, I don't have anything. Okay. Commissioner Underwood.

Not today.

Okay. Commissioner McKenzie. No, sir. All right. I don't have any. Senior staff report. No senior staff report. County attorney report.

No executive sessions today.

That's great.

That's awesome.

Okay. Meetings adjourned. Today, we are going to have our CIS director, Mr. Brian Peacock, deliver our invocation, followed by the Pledge of Allegiance by Commissioner Gruber. Please rise.

Please join me. Gracious Heavenly Father, Lord, we thank you for this day. Thank you, Lord God, for all the many blessings that you've given us, Father. Thank you for this beautiful county that you allow us to live in. And I thank you, Lord God, for all the servants that are in this room. I pray, God, as we go through this meeting, that you would just give them the ears to hear, Lord God, the voice to speak their hearts. And I pray, God, that you would just be with each and every person that's here. We give you all the glory. In Jesus' name we pray. Amen.

Amen. Please join me in a pledge. I pledge allegiance to the flag

All right, thank you all. All right, so first item of business is we're going to adopt the minutes.

Mr. Chairman, I'll make a motion that we adopt the minutes from July 7, 2026, regular meeting.

I'll second it.

Got a motion and a second. Any discussion on that? All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. All right. Do a little thing out of character, Commissioner Gruber, if you don't mind. I'm going to ask our EMA director, Mr. Tom Toller, to come up before he has to get to the EOC for a webinar. And he's going to give us just a little bit of update and some safety recommendations. Thank you, Tom.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So far, we're very fortunate in this storm is experiencing a lot of hostile environment for developing into something that would be exceptionally treacherous to us. What we can expect is some very dangerous surf, waves up to 8, 9, 10, 11 feet possibly. That should start sometime later today and going through as early as Thursday morning. And some areas of the county are going to get a lot of rain in a short period of time possibly, and then other areas may not get any. But most of the effects will be Largely limited to the coastal areas. Right now our status has been upgraded to a tropical storm warning for Baldwin and Mobile County from the central all the way down to the coastline. We do have a surge watch in effect. The surge values are not anticipated being more than three or four feet. Of course, those will be localized as well. But as it stands right now, I think that we should be in pretty good shape because of the way this storm is reacting to its environment and I'm happy with how the flow of information has gone. I've tried the best I could to keep each of you informed as things have progressed, but I also want to be available if you have any questions or any concerns I haven't addressed up to this point.

If you had something to say to people that's vacationed down at the beach that are very bored and watching this meeting right now and What would you tell them to do and not to do?

Well, Commissioner, thank you for asking. Yes, sir. I would very much ask them to refrain from trying to get out of their adventurous sense because, yes, those are going to be some waves we don't see around here very commonly, but they are also very, very dangerous. The flags are single red right now, which means you should stay out of the water. I suspect probably later today they may go to double red at most of our county beaches. And I would let them know that Safety is a lot more important than the sense of adventure. I understand our visitors spend a lot of money to come down here and vacation with us, and we appreciate them very much for doing that. At the same time, we want them to go home with their family intact and not have a needless tragedy, especially when the law specifically says the water is closed and don't tempt fate and get out there and try to do it because it's just not worth the risk.

I want to thank you for it because I know yesterday we had a little webinar and from that we got our Beach Safe campaign out with Jessica did that for us yesterday as well as you had some great articles with 1819 News that got some messaging out there so that's our thing right now is just to message mainly the visitors of the beach. Locals kind of know what to do but the visitors down there that they're watching any of this or paying attention to Facebook threads and stuff just to Better be safe than sorry and go back home with all your family intact. Absolutely, Mr. Chairman.

And reaching those folks is one of our biggest challenges. They don't commonly watch local news or read our local media. So any way we can reach those is very helpful. Thank you for your time.

Thank you, Tom.

Thank you, Tom, for keeping us updated.

All right, Commissioner Gruber, now you can pay the bills.

Okay. Mr. Chairman, I'll make a motion that while we pay the bills, and this report includes 608 invoices totaling $6,011,492.99. I'll second it.

All right, we've got a motion and a second to pay our bills. Any further discussion?

Motion.

All those in favor of this motion, see if I was saying aye. Aye. Motion passes. Next up is item BA2.

Mr. Chairman, I make a motion that we adopt the ratification of infant payments as allowed by policy 8.1. And this report includes 87 invoices and a distribution totaling $3,973,000. $789,006. I'll second it.

Got a motion and a second to ratification of interim payments as allowed by policy 8.1. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Motion passes. All right. Next up, commissioners, we have our consent agenda that we put together during our work session. Note that a few items have been pulled off of that consent agenda, which are items CE6, CF1, and CF2. They will be voted on separately, and I will also be making an arrangement to this agenda, and we will be voting on those after we adopt the consent agenda. I don't want to wait until after all the rezoning cases to do that, so we'll go ahead and take all this into consideration after we adopt our consent agenda. So do I have a motion to adopt the consent agenda as stated with those items pulled?

So moved.

I'll second it. Got a motion and a second to adopt the consent agenda as set in the work session today. Any further discussion? Okay, hearing none, all those in favor, signify by saying aye.

Aye.

All right, consent agenda has been set and adopted. All right, now we will bring up item CE6.

Mr. Chairman, I'll make a motion that we approve item number CE6. I second.

All right. Motion and a second. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Any abstain? Aye. Any nays? Nays. There's a three to one on that. Okay.

Any further discussion?

I guess, yeah, I withdraw all that because I'm going out of order. So we got a motion and a second. Any further discussion?

Yeah, I have no problem with commissioners getting a vehicle. That's not a problem. Problem is I just feel like there's, you know, because I got a new vehicle when I first came on the county commission. Still have the same vehicle. Had it four years, got 55,000 miles on it. I just feel like that we could use that money somewhere else besides a county commissioner getting a brand new vehicle. I think the vehicle that that county commissioner has can use it for another four years or let the new county commission make that decision. I just think, you know, I don't even know how many miles is on your vehicle. And that person, that county commissioner's got a great vehicle. And it seems like to me, in eight years, you've gotten, what, three or four vehicles, and I didn't feel like another one would be appropriate right now, in my opinion. But we've already got a second, and I've already heard the other commissioner vote yes, so it's not going to do any good, but I just feel like that's a waste of taxpayers' money for somebody to get a brand-new vehicle. That's a part-time job. So that's my comments.

So... I didn't call for the motion, so all those in favor, signify by saying aye. We did do that, and we had Commissioner McKenzie vote nay. Anyway, so item CE6 does pass. Next up, we will address item CF1. This is the Building Construction Regulation Agreement with the Town of Silver Hill, Alabama. Commissioners, do I have a motion on that request? Which one is this, CF1? Is this Silver Hill? Silver Hill. I make a motion that we approve.

I'll say it's a motion.

Got a motion and a second for item CF1. This is the building construction regulation agreement with the town of Silver Hill. Is there any further discussion on this item? All right. Hearing none. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Motion passes for CF1. Item CF2, building construction regulation agreement with the town of Summerdale. I'll make that motion. Do we approve? I have a motion by Commissioner McKenzie to approve.

I'll second the motion.

Got a motion, a second by Commissioner Gruber to Commissioner McKenzie's motion. Any further discussion?

Now this is voting on the building construction regulations, correct? Through the end of the year.

Yeah, okay, all right. So we got a motion and a second. Is there any further discussion?

Yeah, I'm listening to Skip, and I can see his senses where he's going. He only wants this, but what is the body's issue with them having the other part until December 31st? Since the city council's here, what is...

The biggest thing is the law says we can only do it for three years.

Well, we're extending it to December 31st.

No, we're not extending. The only thing we're doing is the building department stuff.

Is that different what the law says, Brad?

No, what this does is extends the agreement only as to building construction regulation, but it extends it. I mean, that's the only document in front of you all right now, so I don't even know how you could vote on something else because there is no extension agreement for the other for the planning side of this in front of you. So the only thing to vote on is the building construction one.

I just want to know the senses of why. We'll talk about that later. But anyway, that's not on the agenda.

I do have one question just to make sure it's clarified. So building permits are not planning. That's under police power. Is that correct?

Building permits are police power. The statute allows agreements as to both planning and police power, but this document that's on the agenda today is only. Just the building permits. Yes, building permits, correct.

All right, we've got a motion and a second. Is there any more discussion? All right, hearing none, all those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. All opposed, no. So what was the count?

301. Okay.

In favor?

Correct. Skip, what was your vote? Yes.

So that we're extending the building permits?

Only.

On that, no planning, okay. Correct. All right, next up. We've got our public hearings. First up on the planning and zoning is case Z26-08. Just for the record, that Celina is gonna make a statement on that.

The applicant has asked that this be tabled until the September 15th meeting.

September 15th?

Correct. And they didn't request the table within seven days, so y'all would have to vote on it if you would like it to be tabled or not.

Sure. I'll make that motion that we can table it September 15th. A motion to table?

Which case is this?

The first. Oh, the Corbin case? It's been tabled before. Okay.

What's the, just make sure I understand the difference in tabling versus withdrawal because a public hearing has not been held yet. So you can table it how many times forever and ever, or just, is there a limit? You want me to handle that?

You can continue to table it. I like to table it to a date certain so that you don't have to re notice everything. Withdrawal requires you to start over from scratch. So we did have a date, right? That's correct. Okay.

I just want to clarify that because I know there was some discussions with the town of Silver Hill.

So it's tabled to September 15th. That's the motion. I'll need a second on that.

I'll second it.

All right. We got a motion and a second to table Z2608 Coburn property case. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye.

Aye. Motion passes. So ES1 is tabled.

All right, case number Z26-19, the young property rezoning request. Celina, take us away with that.

All right, this is a request to rezone from rural agricultural to residential single family estate district. The subject property is located in Planning District 12, just north of I-10 near County Road 68. It's currently zoned RA, rural agricultural, and the applicant is asking that it be rezoned to RSFE, residential single family estate district. This is requested so they can divide the property into half. Here's pictures of the subject property and adjacent properties. Here's the locator map and site map. You can see the property is surrounded by R a zoning. Um, this area is showing moderate development potential. Um, staff has determined that this request is somewhat consistent with the factors and the zoning ordinance is consistent with the master plan, uh, future land use map and the smart growth card somewhat supports their request.

Got any questions for Selena? Selena, when you said split it, they want to divide it for the family? Do you remember?

I'm not sure if it was for the family, but they wanted to divide it in half.

Half of it. It was 14 something?

It was, yes.

Okay.

14 acres.

All right, thank you.

26 slash 19 young property rezoning request is anybody signed up to speak for this okay there's a gentleman to raise his hand for some reason okay so did you sign up sir okay so do you want to say anything about it if you do you have to come up to the microphone okay y'all have any questions for the landowner

Yeah, I do. That's the reason I kind of wanted you to come up.

Sir, come up to the microphone if you don't mind.

I'm bigging about no problem splitting property, especially for family. Yes, sir. What is your purpose, if you don't mind me asking?

Yes, sir. I'm just going to split two acres off the corner of it for possibly my son. And if he builds a house there, it has to be rezoned in case he wants to sell it.

Sure, sure. All right. Thank you. Thank you, sir. All right. Close the public hearing. Commission?

Mr. Chairman, I'll make a motion that we approve case number Z26-19, the young property rezoning request.

I'll second it.

Got a motion and a second. Any further discussion? All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Motion passes. Case Z26-20, the Smith property rezoning.

All right, this is a request to rezone a parcel from rural agricultural to B4, major commercial. It's located in Planning District 12, close to the city of Locksley. It's right off of Railroad Avenue and Highway 59. It's currently zoned RA, rural agricultural. They're asking B4, major commercial. The rezoning is requested for a commercial use. We did receive some agency comments back, one from Aldot with concerns of the intersection of High Note Glass Road and 59. Here's pictures of the adjacent properties. Here's the locator map. You can see there's some RA. There's also M2 and some B2 in the area. Most of this area is industrial or commercial. The flame shows this area as conservation development and moderate development potential. Staff did have some concerns with how narrow this property is and meeting the setbacks. If the applicant does plan to develop this property, more than likely they would have to receive a highway construction appeal from the Planning Commission. There's other issues as landscape buffer issues. And that kind of stuff that, um, which was addressed during our pre-application meeting. All right. So staff has determined that, um, the requested zoning amendment is consistent with some of the factors. Um, it's not consistent with the future land use map. Uh, but the smart growth card, um, stated strongly supports this request.

Selena, I got a question. Yes. On that property, if you go back to the thing where the old railroad property used to be in there, is that included in this? That's the next year's.

It is.

And so that really, that originally, all that... railroad right away was for actually it was for egress and ingress purposes so that's correct and so they can't you know they can't build on that or anything else because it's you know if they do if if they somebody tries to build on it and they do build on it then riviera by right has right to remove it that's correct we did receive word from the city of foley um and there are some deeds restrictions um

a pedestrian walkway easement, and then also a utility easement through the property.

You know, one of the comments that was received was from City of Waxley and the traffic issue there as well. Even if it weren't part of the, it just, it's almost like that piece of property needs to just stay undeveloped just because of the danger of that intersection behind Oak Glass Road. I don't know. That's the one we're talking about first, right? The one on the corner?

The one that fronts Highway 59. That's right between 59.

Right where the new improvement has been to the intersection, right? Yeah. So I spoke with Mayor Teal yesterday and he said that they had never improved upon the railroad bed property, but Foley, Summerdale, Robertsdale has all improved the majority of their Railroad the majority of their railroad bed property not all of it, but the majority of it. I know Somerdale hasn't improved The along the trussell what we always called for those of you there here that I'm talking about but but about seven or eight years ago the city of Foley is seeking a national parks grant for a rails to trails with the National Park designation. And the whole goal of that is to connect, literally, eventually, the L&N Railroad properties, a long corridor, which eventually would go all the way to Baymanette. And they have deeded over. My understanding is that Loxley, with the new school that's on 64, Loxley had already improved some, bike and walking trails on the east side of their downtown city that's off of 59 but then they um are seeking to improve the railroad bed that comes through it's still east of 59 but it's west of kind of where the new school you know it's kind of like in between and so you know This is a question to rezone or not rezone this property, but when you look at the potential damage that could be done by allowing this to get rezoned and be incorporated into properties that are contiguous to it or something like that, I think it just puts someone who may not be paying attention and puts a building there or something like that in the future, it would cause economic damage. I mean, I don't see the rails to trails happening in the next couple of years or anything like that, but it's definitely something that, with this being in the county portion, whether or not Loxley ends up annexing this part in or not, I think that this is kind of, I don't know the right words to use, but something that maybe just needs to be left alone no matter what. I don't know what rezoning it would make a difference, and maybe the applicant is here and can tell us in the public hearing process if he signed up to speak, what his intentions of using the property for.

So is it RA right now?

Correct, yes.

So they can almost do anything they want just about right now, correct?

I mean, not anything, but... Well, anything agriculturally related.

They can put a farmer's market up. They can put anything. Yes.

Stuff like that. But I mean, the biggest issue is the highway construction setback. There's both sides. There's really not...

It's limited no matter what. Okay.

Thank you. All right. Any more questions for Selena? If you're not, I'll open a public hearing on this case. Z26 slash 20 Smith property rezoning. Where's my staff so I can see her? Who do we have signed up? No one. Okay.

Yes, sir. Come on up.

State your name. Morning, Commissioner.

I'm Randy Smith. So my plan was to have a Loxley weekend market there. I understand that I cannot build on that because it's the old L&N Railroad, just like you said, Commissioner Gruber. But I have a portable restroom with three restrooms. It's air-conditioned. This would look – could I hand this to you and you all just pass it? Yes. city of Foley sold me I thought I was getting an acre and a half but it was set to be after I had it surveyed as point seven three acres so that photo there that plan photo is not nearly that large so My plan is to have food trucks out there. In Loxley, we don't have many restaurants. We have a couple Mexican restaurants, and then we have fast food. And so I want to do a Loxley weekend market, so we do pop-up tents there, just along, sitting right along the railroad. And y'all look at that photo there, and you can tell that, again, it won't be that large, but maybe a couple food trailers. food trucks, whichever, or three, and then just have pop-up tents like you have at Strawberry Festival or any of these other festivals where people sell their stuff, that kind of thing. I understand that the Rails to Trails will be going there eventually. I fully understand that. I intend to work with them on wherever they want to put that. In fact, that will be great to have that rails to trails come down through there and have a little weekend market there.

So the one that you want there is going to be permanent?

I can't put anything permanent there, no, sir.

Okay.

And you can't do it with rural agriculture as it is right now?

No, sir, not according to zoning.

I think that's reserved for the actual property owner to put their own farmers market up there and not commercialized yes ma'am i'm talking about putting a farm you know like a well i was thinking the little pop-up chance maybe have a look i don't know if it'll go or not i think there's a big traffic concern at that intersection and i guess maybe our when we close the public hearing maybe our traffic engineers can address that well there's two ways you go north by recovery or you can go south and they have just improved that intersection there We did that.

Y'all did. Oh, the county did that. That's right.

That's a county road.

Okay. Well, anyway, it is what it is. I'm just asking y'all to let me do a little weekend market there or whatever else. I can't build a building, so it would have to be something that goes there would have to be without a building. So there's a few possibilities of that, but this is one of them.

Okay.

Thank you, sir. Yes, sir.

Anybody else wish to speak on this? Close the public hearing on this case.

I would like to ask our engineers to speak to Aldot had some traffic concerns on this particular issue. And if that's okay, Chairman.

Yep. Come on. That's correct, Commissioner. We have been in conversation with Aldot. And even prior to this, coming on the radar, Aldot has shared concerns with this area and this intersection for Hino Glass and Railroad and where all those roads kind of come together. Aldot has been conversing with us for quite some time with concerns, which is part of the reason the commission made the investment in improving the intersection as good as we could. Aldot still has concerns with the traffic flow, especially with the new school building coming online, which that's going to have a lot more traffic than what's been seen historically. Aldot did state in our conversations, and I think it's reflected in the report, that they're going to require a traffic study with no guarantees of any type of an approval at this point because it's just such a problematic area now. So adding to that on a very limited footprint and a very tight location is definitely going to be a challenge.

I would also, to clarify a few things, a farmer's truck market, truck crops are allowed in RA. If he plans to do any mobile food vending units, they're only allowed in RR, B2, B3, and up. Required parking is not allowed in the highway construction setback. He can have overflow parking in the highway construction setback. But as far as the portable buildings, if they're not permanent under a roof or anything, they're not considered a permanent structure.

All right, thank you.

Thank you, Selena. All right, commission.

I make a motion we deny this request.

I'll second the motion. Motion and a second to deny. Any further discussion? All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye.

Nay.

3-1 to deny. Next up is Z26-21, Smith property rezoning request.

All right, this is similar to the last one we just went through. The parcel's currently zoned RA, and they are asking to go to M1, which is light industrial. Located in Planning District 12 on the west side of Railroad Avenue, currently zoned RA Rural Agricultural. They're asking M1 for light industrial use. Here's the surrounding properties. Here's the locator map. It's surrounded by RA. There's some B4, M2, which is heavy industrial, and then B2, neighborhood business district. Most of this area is industrial or commercial. The flume shows this area as conservation development and moderate development potential. staff has some of the same issues as the last one with the setbacks and highway construction setbacks so staff has determined that the rezoning request is consistent with some of the factors it's not consistent with the flume and the scorecard shows that this somewhat supports the request any questions for selena

public hearing did you want to come back up and speak to just have two contractors yards there there's a demand with all the construction that we have there's demand for like plumbers, electricians, underground utility companies to have a place to just park their trailers and their equipment. And so that is right in front of E-Covery. And then on the west side, it's commercial. So it's M1 Recovery is, it's that... nasty, smelly plant that's across there. But I don't know what else you could put there. But again, I understand that Rails to Trails will be coming through there one day and I cannot build anything on there. And so we would just, you know, we would just fence it and lease it out to a contractor yard for a couple of contractors.

Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else?

Okay.

Close this public hearing. Is there any more discussion? Any commission?

I think Skip mentioned it earlier and we had the email from City of Foley that came through last night that referenced that these old rail beds here were preserved for I mean rails to trails is a a wonderful dream but they're also reserved for ingress and egress not necessarily things that would be fenced off and um also for the setbacks and stuff for that that roadway in there i just think that it's just presents also i think you mentioned some uh traffic issues that the Did you say that earlier, that there was some traffic issues?

Yeah, Aldot had concerns with that intersection of 59.

But also, I mean, we didn't really receive any specific comments on that one, but at the same time, it's just kind of, I don't know. I mean, the city of Foley owned this just a couple of months ago, and I just think that it's interesting that it's now...

It's interesting that they sell it. There's nothing that can be done with it. That's what's interesting. They should have just kept it.

That would have been nice. Yeah, that would have been very nice instead of selling it.

Because then we have to make a decision whether it... And that lies in a very important point on rezoning cases because when you rezone this land use, then he goes and sells it and then somebody can do whatever they want. And that's why it's so important on the on these specific cases i mean everybody has good intentions i'm going to do this i'm going to do that but you change the use of that one and a half acre piece of property to light industrial and then you can see the list of everything that can go there when he decides to sell the property because now he can sell it and get you know what he wants because now it's been rezoned um instead of left as r8 and and there's i just i just feel like in some circumstances um It's best just to keep the land use sometimes where it's at in this area especially because it's mostly rail bed, all of it. I don't know anybody that built an industrial, I mean yards and stuff, that's fine, but we've got a lot of problems with these people building over this rail bed that has basically agreed If I'm not mistaken, in due time, if Riviera calls to, says I want to put utilities, let's just say through Love's Truck Stop, for instance, and they say we need to run our utilities through there, they tear, Love's got to tear their whole place out to do it. So that's how important this railroad bed is. So there's people in Stapleton, Alabama that can't even sell their property because their whole front yard is a railroad bed. and they stuck in their house forever. So, I just, I don't know.

It just is what it is. I mean, it's, that rail bed, been there since the turn of the 19, 18, 19.

Oh, we've been there a long time. Mr. Chairman, if I may, just a little bit of clarity on that. In the email from the city administrator last night that replied back on this, there was kind of three components of that. And, of course, we're not in the details of City Affiliate, but his email indicated they're selling these properties or they have sold some of these properties to adjacent property owners that already own, not selling it to outside owners. The intent of selling it and the purpose of selling it to adjacent property owners for him was to allow better access and easier access to those existing businesses that are and properties that are already adjacent i know some of the farmers have acquired in different ones but it's to an existing adjacent owner that has something other operation going to allow them to be more flexible in their access and the other two parts you've already discussed it's heavily deed restriction needs restricted with riviera for utilities and also for the future trail that would be proposed so And again, interpreting the city's email, it was not necessarily to create a new business on a complete new parcel. It was to assist with existing businesses that are already in the area.

Thank you, Frank.

All right. So, Commissioner, I need a vote on this.

Well, I'll vote that we deny this one as well.

And I'll second it.

Motion in a second to deny. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed? Nay.

Okay.

Next up, we got case Z26 slash 22, the Silver Hill Enterprises LSC property rezoning.

All right, this is a request to rezone 32 acres for more rural agricultural to RSF1 single family. The subject property is located in Planning District 12 at the intersection of 54 and 55 in the northwest corner. Currently zoned RA, they're asking for a residential single family RSF1. Current use is agricultural. and the rezoning is requested for residential use. Here are some adjacent properties. As you can see on the locator map, most of the property is surrounded by RSF1 zoning. To the east, there is some RA. Most of this area is residential or agricultural. The flame shows this area as moderate development potential. At the intersection of 55 and 54, I believe there is some highways working and their future plans at that intersection improve it. But staff has determined that the requested zoning Rezoning is consistent with the factors, is consistent with the future land use plan, and it also strongly, the smart growth scorecard also strongly supports the request.

So this is one of the ones that actually makes sense because this matches the, I know it's going from rural agriculture to home sites, but that's a minimum of a 30,000 square foot a lot and that's what's all around it. And actually, you know, very concerned about the proximity to any municipality. And so I talked with mayor Liles and he said that that would act, that's not anything that, you know, cause that's the future growth pattern of a municipality. If they were to choose to annex in. And he said that 30,000 square foot lots is definitely not an issue with them. And not that, not that they get to make the decision on this, but we like to be good neighbors.

We also did receive, um, one lit one email late last night, um, from someone that was against the rezoning.

Alrighty. Open the public hearing on this case, Z26-22, Silver Hill Enterprises, LLC. Do I have somebody signed up? All right, come on up. Good morning.

Good morning, sir. I live in Oakley subdivision, which adjoins this property to the west. In fact, my lot is the northwest corner of this property. My question is, what are they going to do with all of the water that comes off of this property? I've lived there for 32 years, and there is a lot of water that comes off of that property to the west. Some of it goes north on that property and is in a little swamp area up there, it's probably five acres, okay? But if they develop it, where's this water gonna go? Because we get a lot of times, five, four, five, six inches of rain at a time. One inch of rain on an acre of ground is 27,000 gallons of water. So what is the developer's proposal to keep that water from washing away Oakley subdivision? That's my question.

I'll help you out on that on this. particular proceeding today, these are rezoning cases. So we're just changing the land use. That would come in the subdivision phase of this plan, which goes to a whole other group of people to meet on. And that's when drainage and stuff like that will be taken into consideration.

So you approve it without knowing what the drainage is going to be, right?

Yes, sir.

Our regulations are stronger than they've ever been. And this would more than likely anything that's been there in existence prior to twenty twenty five. You would not have had the stringent regulations that we have now. And hopefully anything that would be, if it were to be subdivided, which I can't imagine why they would want to rezone it to R1 to put one house on that many acres, um, that it would improve all the drainage in there because we don't just look at site specific drainage anymore. It's in a regional direction. So we are absolutely not seeing any benefits of our new subdivision regulations. yet because they weren't in place in time for anything that's built out where you're at has been there for a long time as you stated comparatively to what else what's out there and so our subdivision regulations have been through 20 some odd changes and what we're having having having there now should be an improvement what we're concerned with is the use and more size what is the minimum lot size that would be allowed in that particular case so just stay tuned if you Since you're a contiguous lot owner, you should be noticed by the planning department if this developer seeks a subdivision of that. Okay? Okay.

So we're going to be able to see what their plans are before we put anything in? Okay. Yes, sir.

That will be discussed when they're doing the planning commission meeting on the subdivisions. they'll first have to, if I'm not mistaken, Frank, submit a plenum, however you say that word, plenumary plat.

Yeah.

Right, and then that is when it, you know, the planning department will say, all right, look, Here's your preliminary.

Preliminary.

Well, maybe I'm at the wrong meeting.

It's okay.

That mistake is made by everybody.

We're not even approving the subdivision. We don't know what's going on there. We're approving the change from land use to rural agriculture to RSF 1, which is the bare minimum. That's a great choice for the area instead of something like RSF 2 or RSF 3. RSF 1 is probably the best that you can hope for because It's going to be similar to what you're living in now. Okay.

And actually, our A, which it is now, that landowner, if he chose the minimum lot size for that, they could take that acreage and subdivide it into three acre lots. And, you know, they would have to adhere to all of our subdivision regulations, which address the drainage. And it's much, much better than it used to be. Okay.

All right. I see a picture.

Hey, it's a learning. It's like drinking from the fire hose. Just stay tuned.

On the picture of the subject property, what's the yellow part in the middle of it? Selena? The RSF1. Is there already a house right there?

No, that's going to be part of the development, but those parcels were already RSS1.

Gotcha, gotcha.

Yeah, there's a house or two in there. Oh, is there? There certainly is, yeah. There's a couple in there.

It must be the model home.

The model home? It's not the model home.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, sir. Appreciate you coming.

Anybody else? Close that public hearing. Commission.

Mr. Chairman, I'll make a motion that we approve this request.

All right, we got a motion for an approval.

Mr. Chairman, I'll second that motion.

And a second. Any further discussion? All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Motion unanimously passes. All right. Next up, we got case Z26-23, the McKenzie property rezoning request. Mr. Chairman, do you mind if I say something before...

Absolutely. On this case, I just want the public to know it's a McKenzie. It is a distant cousin. So I'm going to listen to the case and make a decision if I recuse myself or not. I don't benefit for this if it does get rezoned or sales. So I just want to let the public be aware of it. It's like a third or fourth cousin. Thank you. Thank you.

If I may, yes ma'am.

Hey commissioners, this request is for a rezoning from RA Rural Agricultural to RSF1 Single Family District. This subject property is located in Planning District 39. It is located south of County Road 24 and east of County Road 13, west of State Highway 181 in the Barnwell area. The applicant is requesting to rezone 60 acres from the current agricultural for potential residential development. Here is your subject property and adjoining property images. Your locator map and your site map. And as you will see in the locator map, the adjacent properties are all BCZ, which is based zoning community, and RA, which is rural agricultural. The FLUM does identify this property as ideal conservation preservation areas. The surrounding area consists of low-density residential and rural development properties to the north, south, and east are predominantly rural and residential in character. Parcels located near the intersection of County Road 13 and 24 are generally estate-sized residential lots. Staff has determined that the request rezoning map is somewhat consistent with the factors specified with the Baldwin County zoning ordinance, and is not consistent with the Baldwin County future land use map. The request zoning amendment was also evaluated using the SMART growth scorecard, and it somewhat does not support the request.

And I'm happy to answer any questions.

All right, any questions for Fabio? The question that I have is there's no other property around this area that's, That's RSF1, correct?

That's correct.

All right. All right, open the public hearing. Do we have anybody signed up?

Thomas Scott.

All right, come on up, Mr. Scott.

Oh, and I forgot to mention the staff did receive public comments about this.

Okay.

It's cotton, like a plant. Thomas Cotton. Thomas Cotton.

So I own the property directly south to this, I guess this rezoning, and there's no other property that in our general area, it will be zoned RZ, I can't remember what it's called, but there's no other highly populated subdivision that's adjacent to our property. So one thing that really needs to be considered, and I've got pictures, if you'll bring those up, if you will, the majority of that water flow goes through my property. So at any given time, there could be six foot of water through my valley, which will directly affect my cattle operation. Sorry, I'm losing my voice, I don't know why. But this is, I think during 2024, this is just a routine rainstorm. As you can see all the red dirt that runs through my property. this is only going to get worse as the subdivision is being built. And then that Charlotte lane is a probably maintained road too. It's not County maintained where four or five of us have to have egress in and out of there. So there's a man made bridge that was constructed before I was there when I bought the property, but just a couple of, uh, I guess, key topics I'd like to bring up, if you could bring up the scorecard. Who develops, I guess, the scoring of the scorecard? Okay. So for instance, on the conforming of surrounding land uses, all are negative except for does a proposed land use require building separation and buffers and fits the character of the surrounding areas. You can't determine that without a plat. So I know this is not where you submit your plat. I would further, I guess I can't think of the right word, but In my opinion, you need to submit a plat for rezoning. That way your neighbors and all adjoining properties know exactly what you're going to use it for. But right now that scored a plus two. So I guess the overall scorecard is four out of 40. So that plus two makes a pretty big difference going into the positive versus negative. I don't see how you can, let's just say it goes to one or negative one. you're gonna change the entire scenario of whether this thing, I think, moves forward and agrees with the overall future plan. So the other thing that was brought up is for a subdivision this size, don't you have to have an entrance and an exit as far as two separate, or can it exit on the same road? We would have to get that.

Well, a subdivision application would have to be submitted before.

Who's talking?

I am.

I'm sorry.

We're looking at our highway engineer. He can answer that question for you.

Yes.

I don't have an invisible pill on here.

So that would, it would most likely require, we have not seen a subdivision plan for that. It's not kind of that phase, but probably this size would very likely require two entrances. We don't know that yet because we've not seen the plan, but I would highly expect it on this size of a property.

So both of them would exit off of county road 13. That's the only way the land is locked on county road 13. And I know my three minutes is up. I also challenged the environmental conditions and historic. If you look at all those, the plus dues don't make any sense. I don't know if a land study was done to see like the actual drainage structure of how it moves through that property, but the lion's share moves right through mine. And at any given time, like during Hurricane Sally, It took probably a week for me to even cross my property. So adding a development, it's only going to be worse. And again, this would set a precedence for all properties around us that can get zoned RZ.

Thank you, sir.

All right.

Good morning. Basically, I mean, what we're requesting here is RSF1. It's a low density development, as you know. While there are no RSF1 currently zoned property in the area, there are RSF1 size properties in the area.

It's just a matter of they got zoned RA, even though they're RSF1 size.

With regard to drainage, uh potential development gives the opportunity to actually improve the downstream drainage we have the ability to oversize ponds and things of that nature so it improves the amount of runoff that is happening downstream um as for the number of first for a single interest versus two interests that that cut off is 49 lots there's not going to be 49 lots that could be built here uh environmentally from a wetland standpoint i know the staff uses what tools they have available. I think we can all agree. A lot of the tools they have available have a lot of errors in them. We've had a wetland delineation. There are no wetlands on the property. So we're not gonna be impacting sensitive areas. So, in the end, doing some development the right way, the smart way, can actually help the surrounding areas and it can be a positive. Routinely, I'm here requesting RSF2, RSF3, things like that. We're trying to do really a low density development that fits within the character of the area that can actually fit in and not impede or be a detriment to anyone else's property. We don't have an actual layout right now. I'm guessing it's going to be in the 30 to 40 lots.

30 to 40 lots, and that only requires one entrance?

That's correct.

I just want to, for the citizens that's listening, the way they know, just in case.

Unless it's some sort of special condition, the cutoff has been 49 lots.

I mean, you're throwing me off when you're saying that what you're going to do is going to affect the character of this area. That throws me for a loop. Explain that to me.

So just because you're doing RSF one doesn't mean you're trying to pack in as many hundred, even 30,000 square foot. I understand. It's basically going, you're really, whether he's zoning regs, have you is you're either stuck at RSF E, which is basically two acre lights or RSF one, which is three quarter acre. What we're looking at doing is something more than magnitude of say an acre, half light and things of that nature. That's a,

that am i am i wrong for saying there's no subdivisions around there whatsoever not if you look at the parcels that are developed around county road 13 there's non-conformance all over because this just came into zoning but the thing is is that you have to each area is different and While I agree that our subdivision regulations, as I stated in the previous case, I do believe that I'm not an engineer, but from everything that people have told me that they will improve drainage. It will improve because we have strengthened those subdivision regulations, but we're not here talking about subdivision regulations. We're here talking about are we going to change the use of this property from rural agriculture which is a minimum of splitting it up into three-acre lots, or are we going to give it a new use classification, which is residential single-family one with a minimum of 30,000 square foot? I think that there might be potential. I'm not here trying to give suggestions, but I just think that maybe it might not be what people do anymore, a lot of farming or whatever, but maybe a PRD would be a better look at this to, whatever, but at the same time, it's not apples to apples. We're not comparing an RA to an RSF1 of the previous application. All of those things that are brought up about subdivision regulation things, that is not a use tool in this particular situation. This is 100%. Do we feel like this is consistent? And the scorecard is terrible. It's a four. The scorecard on the previous one was 30-something, almost perfect. So, That's all. And I appreciate, I mean, you've had cases before us before. I've agreed with you on some. I've disagreed with you on others. But we'll see how the vote goes. Thank you, Dwayne.

Okay. Morning.

Morning. Brad Lazenby. I live on Charlotte Lane. My property is bounded by this property on two sides. So I'm directly impacted by this. and I had it right up and I was gonna talk about some things, but the last two things blew that out of the water. So forgive me if I kind of jump around a little bit. I moved down here to Baldwin County and chose Baldwin County before I found a job. That was well over 20 years ago. And I've continued to choose to stay here through many ups and downs and reasons to leave. My wife and I now currently work from home. We have for 10 years. I can literally live in any county in any state in the country, anywhere. I choose to live here for all the reasons that a lot of people here are talking about, right? We are who we are. We have a certain, for lack of a better word, five way of doing things. Part of what y'all do is make choices about how we grow and what we do and how we keep that. This, according to your scorecard and what has been said here, this potential zoning changes that in this area radically. It's a material change. I heard him say, you know, 49 lots. We don't know. And what you have said specifically about we're not here to litigate the water stuff, and I can tell you a whole lot about that because I live it.

Yeah, I'm not going to, okay?

Not enough time for that. Yeah. But what you said about we're here to determine what's the use case. The use case for this going to what he's asking for is just counter to everything around there and counter to what your plan says we want to take this county. Now, it's within y'all's authority to make exceptions and change that. I'm not going to say it's not. But consider the choices we're making here and what this is going to do to the future when other adjacent properties come in, well, you know, it's here, now here's the next one, and here's the next one. This area is different than other places in 13 and other places where this has been approved. Take a look at the plots. This is different. Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

I live, my name is Hill Robinson. I live directly across 13 from the proposed ingress and egress. So the drive would come out essentially at my driveway. My wife and I bought 23 acres 12 years ago in what was then a four lot subdivision, 10, 12, 10, and 40 acres. that was done probably 20 years ago. I believe, if I'm not mistaken, this is the first application for a subdivision of this size to be approved in District 39. I think the one down on 181 and the one on 24 were approved prior to the vote. Can y'all correct me on that? Okay.

There's been applications. There was some last month.

Yeah. My biggest concern is a smart growth score of four. You take four away, and it's do not develop or do not rezone. Four is a very low score, like Ms. Underwood proposed or said, out of 40. It basically calls for leaving it as it is. I am not opposed to private property rights at all. I think Ms. McKenzie has a right to do something with that property. I think I heard somebody say if it's left the way it is, can you develop larger lots? In a subdivision, three to five acres?

Three acre minimum.

That would be my wish. I would shake Ms. McKenzie's hand and say, this looks good to me. I don't want to see it develop, but I mean, that's a worst case scenario. That's the best case scenario for me.

That's just what could happen today.

Pardon me?

It's zoned for that.

Right. I understand that. So that would require no zoning change. So as the way it is proposed today, I'm against this rezoning request. Okay. Just wanted you to know that.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Morning. Morning. I live off of Charlotte Lane at the very end. And so this potential rezoning definitely affects me in the back part of our property. I just want to go on the record of I oppose this. I also want to, just like everybody else has said, and look, I don't claim to know much about this stuff, but I do know numbers. And when I see a four out of 40 on the scorecard, there's no way you can tell me that's good. So I feel like if you look at such a low score, if you're not going to pay attention to that, then what's the point of having that? So, you know, I think, and that's a fact of four out of 40, that's 10%. that's very extremely low. So I just wanna just go on the record of saying that, that I oppose this. And also our concern is we're on a well, so I'm concerned about potential water contamination as well from this. In addition to the traffic, noise pollution and all that stuff. But, you know, I think that this could potentially be a health issue as well with the water. So I just want to go on record as saying that.

Thank you so much. So, okay, can I ask a question? Is everybody speaking, is this a for or against this? Okay, so we're getting, we've gotten all the ideas. Is there anything new that you would like to add in the opposition part? other than what everybody else has stated? I was not prepared to speak today, so I apologize.

Okay. But I'm sitting here as a science teacher,

My job is to teach students to think critically, and having taught environmental science before, and I know y'all know way more, but I've been trying to get my kids to learn to look at maps and make sense of them and to be educated citizens. And I just want to see how something like this, I don't know, is supposed to pass. And then be explaining to my kids how that fits a critical thinking concept. So I'm sorry.

That's okay. Were you opposed? Okay, I'm just making sure I understood that. I'm trying to go from a different standpoint. That's okay. It's okay. Take a breath. Think about something funny, you know.

You've got kids who are also looking for this and learning and forming their own thoughts and how they're going to become adults and what they're going to think and how they're going to use Baldwin County in the future. So I just wanted to tell somebody.

I just like to say we get no joy out of having to make these decisions. At least I don't. I can't speak for others.

I'm just a concerned mom teacher.

Right. And there's also a class called political science. Maybe these kids will take one day and they'll learn this aspect of it. But I get your environmental science stance, and I appreciate that approach. Anybody else? All right. I'm going to close this public hearing.

Mr. Chairman, do you mind if I say something? Yes. I just want to be transparent with the citizens that's here. And a lot of these people are neighbors of mine because I live right there. It's a lot of lane on 13. This is a tough situation for me. I've got a family member that wants it and he wants to get rid of it. Then I got my neighbors that's my second family. So I'm going to do this. I'm going to recuse myself from the vote. So I just want to let y'all be aware of that. So I'm not voting on this. So I just want to give you a heads up on this because it is going to affect me if I decided to vote, my heart tells me it's not a good thing. It's not at the right time for it, my heart tells me. But anyway, go ahead. Sorry, I just wanted to say that.

All right, commissioners, I need a vote on this matter. And it's gonna be between Underwood and Gruber to make this up.

I'll second it.

We got a motion and a second to deny. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Aye. Motion to deny passes. All right. Our last one. Yes. Should be an easy one, huh, Selena? Yes. Okay. I'm glad y'all worked this in the order of the easiest one last, right? So I'm going to rest when you go ahead.

All right. This is a request for a PID, which is a planned industrial development. It's located in Planning District 12. It's currently zoned M1, which is light industrial. The total acres is 25. 8.7 the current use is industrial to give you some background y'all approved already approved a PID last year for this parcel and one of the conditions was if they expand they need to come back and they want to add another building so that is why they are back here here is the subject property and surrounding properties Here you can see on the locator map, most of the surrounding areas are A in agricultural. The flame shows this area as moderate development potential and close to a commercial industrial center. As stated, they are adding an additional building to the original PID, so they have come back for your approval. Here is the new building that's outlined in red. It's 75 by 75. This is their landscape plan that they proposed the last time. And when I talked to the applicant, they were almost about done with the landscape buffer. So staff has recommended approval with the condition of any expansion of the proposed structure, facility, and or industrial use. She'll have a new site plan and be reviewed by the county commission.

All right. Any questions for Selena before I open the public hearing?

Clarify that this is actually an improvement.

Yes, it is. They have done a lot of improvements.

Yeah, this is to be able to get this site cleaned up.

Right. Okay.

All right, so I'm opening the public hearing. Is there anybody signed up? Thank you, sir. Y'all have any questions?

No.

Okay. Let's wait for Commissioner McKenzie to get back from the restroom and see what he wanted to do. I'll close the public hearing. What y'all want to do? There he is. All right, come on, we're fixing to vote on this. We need you to say so. Sorry, y'all, too much orders. All right, so we're at the point, we just went through this last one here, the PID thing, and we're at the point to where we need to vote on it. So I wanted to wait for you to get back to do that. Do you have any questions for Celine on this? I've looked at this one. Okay, so Commissioner, I've closed the public hearing. I need a motion.

I make a motion we approve this.

I'll second. We've got a motion and a second to approve. Any further discussion? All those in favor, signify by saying aye. Aye. Motion passes 4-0. All right. We have no other staff recommendations. We have no addenda.

I have one.

Why is it called?

We forgot to put them on the consent. They could have been put on.

We'll take them one at a time. Is there a motion for item GA1? Yeah, I'll make that motion. I'll second it.

To approve.

Motion in a second to approve. All those in favor say aye. Aye. GA1 passes. Item GA2. I'll make a motion to approve.

Okay, I'll second it.

I ain't never seen so many people fighting over motions up here until now. Right, we must be getting hungry. Hungry, I got a meeting after this. He already went to the bathroom. Motion and second to approve item GA2. No discussion. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Okay. Did I do that okay? All right. Press questions. Commissioner comments.

Can I go first? No, I am not going to go first. I want to be next to last. I'll let Commissioner McKenzie go first today.

Mine's real quick.

Thank the staff for putting this together.

Thank the commission. For the citizens that are listening, please be careful out there on the waterways. There's a lot of accidents, a lot of people getting hurt right now. And we just, you know, be safe. So thank you. That's all.

Mr. Chairman, I just want to thank the staff for their patience getting this agenda put together. And like Commissioner McKenzie said a minute ago, we're seeing a lot more boating accidents out on the water. My lady got killed Saturday on the ICW, actually was out in Wolf Bay part of it. And there was eight people that got injured. there's two big boats that collided out there so you know people got to be a little bit more careful when they're boating out there you know because it is and that's that's very dangerous out there not only that with the uh all the people that's coming here for visiting you know a lot of them don't know how to use the water and don't understand it i guess that's what caused a lot of these accidents But, you know, so please be careful what you do and be very cautious of where you go on the water. So thank each and every one of you.

Okay. I just want to tell the commission about NACO this weekend. As you guys know that we are a county that, is a Gulf County, a Gulf state. Our county is on the Gulf Coast. And so there is a Gulf Coast Regional Forum that is held at each one of the NACO conferences. And I know some of you, when you've been to the NACOs, back he did it jim did it it's okay hey things happen all right but what i wanted to mention was is that at the at this conference i didn't mean to do that by the way for the record if i thought you meant i would have said something but anyhow i could you know i might be a female but don't underestimate me but anyways um i was just going to say that we are actually looked up to by the rest of the gulf state counties and parishes because of the work that goes on here in alabama particularly with some of the watershed work that the mobile bay nep is doing and also with the work that the restore council has done and that is a huge tribute to um the the um, the restore council that is in place that, uh, commissioner Blankenship, who is, um, I know if I throw out all these DCNR, that's the apartment conservation, national resources. He has been a fantastic commissioner of DCNR. And, um, they really actually ask Baldwin County questions about, Hey, we want to do this. We want to do that. And to have someone from, I probably messed this up, Lafourche Parish, compliment Ballin County and ask us questions. And so it is amazing to see what other counties and parishes are doing that are Gulf Coast counties and parishes. And so I'm thankful for the opportunity that Ballin County has put in each one of us over the time that even you guys have been on the commission that we've been able to participate and actually come back with good information. And I know our county engineers are very involved in National Association of County Engineers. And to, you know, you pass different people in the lobby of the convention center and things like that, and to hear the compliments on our staff coming from places as far away as Kansas and Minnesota, and I think I got those right, I don't remember all the places that these people are from, and to say, hey, we're recognizing what you're doing on the Gulf Coast, that speaks volumes to the teamwork and the support and how that we're bringing back things that are, and we're also being able to give things that help. But one thing that was the big hot topic of the whole conference was That word, that word, data center, okay? And so it was so interesting because it was the whole conference was, besides the Gulf Coast, we didn't bring data centers up in that part. But the whole thing is that the counties have such different varying authorities throughout the whole United States. And we had a panel that was up on stage and they were talking about, I think it was Frederick, Virginia, that county has complete home rule. And then the county next to them, which is Loudoun County, Virginia, they're under Dillon's rule, just like we are. And then you have Mason, West Virginia, and they were talking about the benefits versus the negativity and things like that. But I will say my takeaway on what they talking about over there, but I will say my takeaway on data centers was one thing that they consistently said was you as a county government do not need to give them any incentives. They don't need them. They don't ask for them. And that's not something that you need to do. And that's one thing I'm proud of this commission is that we have consistently made a stance that on these types of developments, if they were to come into Baldwin County or not, is that we have consistently stated that you're not going to get any of our taxpayer dollars if you exercise your private property rights to do so. So I just want to know that that is on the tip tongue of every, there are 3,069 counties and parishes that are part of the United States county government throughout all the states. And that is on the forefront of everybody. We like to think we're unique here in Baldwin County. Well, we ain't unique on that. There's people in way worse shape than we are Just go to some of these states that have been inundated with it. But I'm not standing up here saying I'm for or against or anything. I just let you know that we are getting the information, and it is consistent throughout this United States. There's a lot of good information, bad information, misinformation, and be careful where you get your information because it's not all consistent. But county government is on top of it. nationwide. So I know I'm always the voluminous talker, but thank you all for listening to me.

I'm going to limit it to that. Okay. And this meeting is adjourned.