Architectural Review Board - Regular Meeting

We are waiting for the Village Attorney.

roll call present present very well bring the meeting to order we pledge allegiance

I don't let me but let me get it I

No, no, we don't. Let me hold on a second. Clerk. Review board and 2026. Yeah. Let me do it so you can see it. Wait, that's the agenda?

Yours opened before mine did.

That's not it, though. There it is. Okay, but I've got to drag it up there now. I'm going to make a big... Thank you. And then... Yep. Who saw the comments here about landscape architecture?

Please be advised that the following item on the agenda is quasi-judicial in nature. If you wish to comment upon an item, please inform the chairman when he asks for public input on it. An opportunity for persons to speak will be made available after the applicant and staff have made their presentations on each item. All testimony, including public testimony and evidence, will be made under oath or affirmation. Additionally, each person who gives testimony may be subject to cross-examination. If you refuse either to be cross-examined or to be sworn, your testimony will be given its due weight. The general public will not be permitted to cross-examine witnesses, but the public may request the Architectural Review Board to ask questions of staff or witnesses on their behalf. Persons representing organizations must present evidence of their authority to speak for the organization. Further details of the quasi-judicial procedures may be obtained from this clerk. At this time, I'd ask if there are any ex parte communications to disclose from the board members.

Not here. No.

The answer being none for all. Mr. Clerk, would you please swear in the witnesses? Yes.

All those who will be providing testimony today, please raise your right hand and do swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Thank you.

very well building official read the report okay so good afternoon everybody we receive written confirmation that the the the applicant acknowledged the 18 conditions and they're in agreeance with it it is my is my my opinion that the proposed new two-story single-family home at 165 bow well this gate drive follows the village appearance code and zoning ordinance also the Village Planning and Zoning Consultant and the Parks Consultant also reviewed and has concurred that the plans comply.

I just have a quick question on your conditions, just for the record, because sometimes it's not clear. Applicants are not required to submit a full-blown landscape architecture package that complies with all the standards to get ARB approval. They submit that before they get building permits? Yes, they do. That's the first condition. For the review of the Board, you know, it's never a requirement. That's something that we could discuss as a Board if we ever want to suggest that we are given a full landscape architecture package for consideration during ARB. It's not a requirement right now as I understand it. As long as they comply with this note and the note just for the record says that it needs to meet Miami-Dade County standards. For Chapter 18. Chapter 18. And then furthermore, some hedges planted at 10 feet. And so it was a very sort of prescriptive way of not having to submit a landscape plan or ARB, right?

They submitted preliminary, but it's not the official last version of the plan because that's what the conditions are there for.

Okay. All right. And I think you're also just saying you need to meet minimum FEMA, which is FEMA plus one.

Yes.

Which seems to be what the applicant is doing. Just for the record, the applicant is complying with minimum FEMA standards, FEMA plus one.

Yes.

Okay.

All right. Is the applicant ready?

Take to the podium. Identify yourself for the record.

Hello. Fiora La Salamanca. Do I have to say my address, too?

Okay, could you say that slower and clearer, please?

Fiorella Salamanca.

And what else? You said something else.

If I needed to state my address.

Well, so who are you?

We're the designers of the home.

Are you the licensed architect? No. Who is the licensed architect?

Alfredo Gamara.

Alfredo Gamara is the licensed architect. Correct. He's acting as architect of record.

Yes.

And you guys as designers?

Yes, we're the design studio.

Design studio. Okay. Okay. Does the board have any other questions of her concerning that? No? Okay. All right, so give us your presentation.

Oh, here. Let me go to the floor plans. Okay. Okay. So, you know, we're proposing a single-family residence, two stories. The house, as you come in, you know, it has a living room, a kitchen, you know, a very nice kitchen in there. There is a lot of open space in the house because my client is Jewish and, you know, like he wants to host like his Shabbat events on Fridays, you know, from time to time. And so they asked us to please do a very nice double height, open height, ceiling space in here to be able to accommodate the amount of gatherings that he may have sometimes in his home, as he currently does. So the house on the first floor, like, you know, you come in, there's, like, one single car garage. There's a main quarters on the back, you know, like a laundry space. And we have used a lot of the first floor for a lot of entertainment areas. So you have a bar, like I said, lounge areas, you know, like, and also on within the second floor is where you find, you know, like, as soon as you come in, the master's quarters. And then three additional, I'm sorry, two additional bedrooms, technically, that we would be using. And then more, like, large gathering space areas for the design itself. Within the architecture itself, we're proposing this very beautiful gold overhangs, as you can see also on the renderings. So first on the facade at the beginning, it's going to be a waterfall feature on bronze liquid metal.

So if you look up... Sorry.

And I will share this with everybody soon. If you look up... Over here, this is the bronze liquid metal on the facade. So it's not necessarily a paint. This is actual liquid metal. And we're just trying to create something different, something a little bit more architectural and bring some type of different features into this home. At the same time, the client didn't want just to have like a plain overhang. I think he wants his home to make a little bit of a statement in which we are creating also like a liquid metal, like on the overhangs that are going to be within the gold colors. And on the back, it's just a simple PVC wood cladding, which is the other one over here for the first floor. And the second floor is just regular, you know, like white travertine stone. You know, like this, at the beginning we wanted to have the facade in black, which clearly we know it did not comply with the regulations of Ball Harbor, which is why now we are proposing like our dark bronze liquid metal paint, you know, to try to make something a little bit different. You know, you haven't seen it out there just yet. I don't know if anybody wants to go ahead and look at this. Like I said, it is liquid metal. So when you do touch this paint, it feels a little bit cooler. It's different. I don't know if you've really seen it on the market just yet. So like I said, when you do touch the paint, it is more like on the cooler side because it's made with actual liquid metal.

Do you have the specifications of how the paint is applied?

I can get them from the manufacturer. We may be working with a manufacturer called MCI Finishes. They're located in North Miami. I can get you all the specifications from the manufacturer.

This sample is applied to what material? Like a porcelain?

Yes. But from my understanding, when I spoke to the vendor, he says that when we make the facade after we do the concrete and we put the stucco, they can paint it on top of the stucco.

So they apply this over the stucco?

Correct. And then he says there's 30-year warranty, you know, but technically it's supposed to be for life. There is no waterproofing issues because this is, you know, it's not water-resistant. It's actually waterproof, the paint itself. The main reason why the clients wanted to apply it on the facade is because since we're going to have this water feature, we understand sometimes with different type of stones and, you know, like the water and when it goes and, it would eventually grow some type of, you know, like plants or fungus or it would require maintenance and they wanted like the minimum amount of maintenance possible that would still allow for the facade to look nice. Do you want me to carry it over?

Yeah, continue.

Okay. Are you done with your presentation?

Yes.

Okay. Can we start with some board questions? Do we do public input first? Yeah? Okay. Let's do public input. I put it on your desk. You should have the letters. I'm going to read this into the record. Several items stand out immediately to me. This is from a neighbor. Her last name is Logan. She lives here in the village. The height of the building exceeds the height limit by five feet. That's her projection. Just for the record, the building official wrote his report, and it seems like according to the zoning guidelines, review the houses in full compliance of all zoning regulations, including heights. Yes.

If I may, Mr. Chair, that is true, and yet the zoning review that happens at this moment is preliminary in nature. And so the final zoning review happens prior to the actual permit and final plans. But they certainly look at it and try to find all the issues and catch everything they can for your review.

But if you see the dimension that she's noting is the 39.67 NGVD that the house is measured from the design criteria of the freeboard. So it's the 25 feet plus the 5 feet, so it complies with the 30 feet. Yes.

Yeah, so the way the method is represented in the presentation is in compliance with zoning at this stage, subject to final review during permitting, but it seems like it's headed in the right direction, it seems. Of course, we're not a zoning review board, so, you know, we just have to accept that. The setback invasion to the second level is even more significant, 11 feet in some areas. So there is in Ball Harbor a regulation where you need to step the massing in the second floor or reduce the exposure to the side yards. That has been reviewed also by the zoning reviewer and the houses in compliance with all those regulations. There's confirmation that that's the case. You could see that on the second facade, there's a 30-foot return. So I'm assuming that that all meets the percentages that are required, even though it's not dimensioned and presented with the percentages. But I think it has been reviewed, and it seems to be in compliance with those setback requirements. Placing the trash receptacles as far back as possible is also unrealistic. This is a neighbor's comment. The reality is that the trash needs to be closer to the front of the home. You could receive some of these as friendly suggestions that you could enhance your design if you wish. They are removing the large oak tree with significant canopy that exists on the site, replacing them with things that will never have significant canopy. So she's concerned about that. Let me see. I'm just scrolling through the presentation to see if you do have a, okay. So your tree now is towards the back of the house, correct?

So this is the existing layout of the trees right now on the site, and this is the proposed one.

So tree number nine is an oak and tree number two and one? Six.

I believe six.

Six is the oak?

Yeah.

Okay.

In the bottom left corner and in the middle of the overlying the building outline on the image above.

And the landscape designer has tried to maintain or relocate some of these trees and that has not worked out?

The thing with the relocation of the trees is that we have to create the trench systems, you know, like to be able to accommodate for the amount of water that this property is going to obtain. And when we add the trains on the side of the property, a lot of the roots of the trees are just too big to even try, you know, like to add the trenches and the trees itself. We can look at it again and, you know, and see if there's anything we can do.

Can you show those trench systems? Do you have the civil plans?

I think we do, too. One second. Let me see. Everything should be here.

I thought I saw Grady. No, they're not.

What happened? Sorry. Let me see if we have the civil here. Keep going.

I mean, the trenches right now are basically over your property line or on the side yards.

Here.

So you have one on the far northeast corner of the lot and one on the northwest as well as one on the south?

Yeah, we also have the eastman on the back, which, you know, we're not touching and we're not trying to raise the land whatsoever to just not interfere with that area as well.

The eastman of the what, sorry?

No, you know, like the regular eastman on the back of the property. Oh, yeah. And this is why we're not trying to raise the land on the back whatsoever because we don't want to deal with the eastman.

You're trying to maintain the grade as it is so you don't have to do retention rolls.

Correct.

There seems to be in the front yard a lot of room for an oak tree to be relocated to. I mean, significant area that would allow that oak tree to be relocated there. I don't know if that's something that other members of the board would encourage.

I'd agree. So reviewing the landscape plans, you have two larger oak trees. I think one was like 20 inches DBH and one was 16, if I recall. Correct. They obviously can't be where they are. Maybe the one at the bottom, number six, could be maintained where it is without too many conflicts with construction. But the northeastern corner seems like the obvious spot to be able to relocate it, which... probably wouldn't be too in conflict with the construction and staging.

Okay.

I think it could be relocated. Also, it's a very sparse landscape plan. It appears that the plan has a schedule which shows something close to the county requirements, but it is quite a large house with a very basic landscape plan, like very basic landscape. So from the front, all you see is the foundation planting, and then you have coconuts at the street, which is the minimum. I like how you did the date bulbs along the side. It's nice, but you have this large front yard with nothing in it. So it would seem that you have some space where you could relocate that oak or put some other large canopy tree, because otherwise there's not a lot. I know you have the four gumbo-limbos along the north side, but the canopy can grow large, but it's going to be constrained by the house's size.

Correct. Also, I mean, we wanted to, you know, try to plant some trees on the back as well. But because of the easement, you know, we're very limited with where these trees are going to be placed. And we also didn't want the client to kind of lose their backyard space or their front yard space. You know, like they have kids and at least what they told us is on the front, they may like to maybe play soccer and, you know, like put it like a small soccer field. Not a soccer field, but, you know, like the little soccer goals and be able to run around with the kids. And so a lot of that interferes with, I guess, what they wanted to do within the property.

I think... Sorry. The perception of how people use the space is often different relative... The trees, obviously, in the middle of the yard is going to be a problem for kicking a ball, throwing a ball, whatever. But oftentimes people perceive that it must be devoid of any trees or canopy to be usable. And the truth is people won't use it because it's going to be so hot.

So...

Ideally, you would put it in the lower left-hand corner on the southwest and something in the northeast just so you have something at the far extremities. But I can't dictate it, especially how it fits in with the grading and the other infrastructure. But this is kind of absent of large trees except for the north end.

Correct. I mean, again, we have to add additional trees into the side of the property. I think it's more of a doable request for the client. Whatever amount of trees you would like us to add into the side of the property, it would be, again, more of a doable request. Then try to put it on the front of the home where they really want to play with the kids. They have asked us to add a couple things into the backyard for them to play for their kids and stuff. So we're just trying to take that into consideration for the future. Understood.

I think the intention and what we represent here is like the collective good, the collective appearance of the community. And if every resident rebuilt a house with this sort of landscape plan, it would be mostly devoid of trees, which people appreciate. They just don't want it on their property because it interferes with their soccer goal. So that's the nature of the pushback.

Also, leaving the oak tree, number six, in its current location, Does that not work? Did you check that with an arborist if the house becomes too close to the tree?

A lot of structure there. I think they have a civil drain there.

Yes.

Civil?

Yeah, they have like area drains.

Yeah, but that's easy to move.

Yeah, I would agree.

I mean, I think civil engineering is easy. So let me see.

In your personal, you know, in his opinion as well, because you know better than we do, what are the options on relocating the trees? Because also our landscaping has told us, you know, depending on how you picked up the roots, they can die and like, you know, like...

So I believe the county, if you're relocating it, will require you to have a bond on the tree. So if the tree dies, you have to replace it. Live oaks can be moved, even large live oaks. They are not the most resilient tree, but they are very movable. I've moved 60-inch live oaks on projects. Okay. So it is doable. It's expensive, but doable. And I would recommend it because it is a natural asset, basically, per tree. Mr. Borges' comment, number six, I think makes sense, especially if that's the exit to the rear yard. Like, that would be nice to have shading in that space. It doesn't seem to interfere with the easement. And then the other, I think, could be relocated somewhere in the front yard to the northeast without compromising construction access or staging. Because that's the other side of it. So you can have it where it doesn't Like in the final form, it makes sense. But if it's in a spot where it's going to be just damaged during construction, it doesn't make sense.

Currently on the top right corner, I believe is where we are relocating the water meter. Okay. And, you know, like the sewer lateral line and like all that. So I guess my only concern will be like if, you know, oak trees with the roots and everything else, if they were to interfere on any way with this in the future or it would just...

Trees grow around utilities all the time. Yeah, we know, we know, we know. It happens. Okay.

Yeah, and I think that you're very early on, you know, to reorient utilities and things like that if it means that you could keep a tree on site. May I ask the building official if there's any experience here recently where the village has voted or discussed the idea of trying to maintain tree canopy, like oak trees and all that, whenever possible? I mean, is there like a mandate? Because some communities have that as a restriction, kind of like a deed restriction that comes with a property to try to maintain and preserve tree canopy whenever possible. I don't know.

something that we mandate, but we encourage for them to be able to maintain.

Do you have an arborist that reviews these things or a landscape architect on behalf of the city?

We have our town planner that he also reviews for...

He also does landscape, yeah. I see.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, doesn't the county have a canopy requirement that you have to show both?

We also got, we get a permit through Miami-Dade County for Miami-Dade County to review it when they go through term. It also goes through the tree removal permit that they need to achieve and all that. At that time, it goes through their review also.

It would appear that this is, just at quick glance, complying with the county environmental requirements, which is about the DBH diameter at breast height of the trees existing and what's removed and what's required. So that seems to be balanced on the scheduled bottom center. They also have a requirement for the canopy based on what's removed and what's replaced. So... Assuming that it's been vetted for that, they're likely meeting those minimum requirements, but those are the minimum requirements. If you look at a much higher-end house, they're not going to be trying to skirt that. The trees, the large specimen trees, are considered like a feature of the design, and this just lacks that.

Yep. So let me just finish off reading this neighbor's comments. Of course, the oak tree is a big concern. She's saying that the house needs a lot of landscaping to soften it up a bit, you know, which some of our favorite landscape architects love to do that. We're always concerned that the architecture is behind the trees. But some people like that look, you know. So as an architect, I always have to be open-minded about that. Once again... too much house for the size of the lot. That's the opinion of this neighbor. Again, for the record, the project has been reviewed by the zoning reviewer. Everything is compliance with village standards. So I would also suggest to the community if there are some concerns about these things that you've got to bring it up to city commission because then you have to change the regulations that affect the way that we judge these projects as That's a board, right? Right now we need to use current regulations which seem to allow the size of home, the footprint of the house, and of course the fact that it has one singular car space. This family, of course, is very festive and is going to enjoy these wonderful Jewish holidays. One wonders, is everybody coming in an Uber? Or are they bringing in a bus?

They're not allowed to use technology, so technically Ubers are out of the way.

You can't drive to the party, I see. So this is a walkable community.

A bicycle or a walkable community, again.

Yeah, okay. So that solves that problem. So, yeah, so in terms of the architecture and its stylistic compliance with the regulations, is there any comments from the board on that?

I will say that that front facade, that metal finish is nice. It's novel. I think there will be a lot of detailing that has to be done well so you don't have efflorescence coming through any spot where a crack forms in the stucco, and also especially where that water feature is. You're going to have a ton of calcium deposit on that surface from that water. So I would warn that client that what it looks like in that rendering is probably not what it's going to look like in six months. So it will have to be like scrubbed with a great deal of elbow grease to maintain that finish.

This metallic finish on this house in the method that you're describing, right? I would consider it to be experimental, which means this is South Florida. It's very tropical. There's a lot of moisture. We don't know how this is going to perform over time. And it's a significant aspect of this house. So let's say... If the experiment fails, what happens? I mean, besides the golden trim, right, which seems to be something the client really likes, and we see it in your sample, right? There's a golden piece here. So we see the amount of gold quality.

Like even if, I don't know if you can see, but even the mullions on the windows, it's something that they're willing to pay the extra to make, you know, to kind of make it match with the facade and make that little...

So these are anodized aluminum windows that will be anodized to be like a goldish color.

Correct.

Yeah, which is a custom...

Yeah, it's a custom color.

And a more expensive solution, but that's the aesthetics that the client has.

Yes, also liquid metal paint, it goes for about $45 a square feet. The client is aware of it.

Yeah, it's a very expensive treatment.

You know.

In the ideal world, I would like to have the power as a board here to ask for a mock-up at some point that is installed on the building before the entire house is treated with this, right? So you don't commit to the entire thing and... and the board could even go and see the, do like a site review of the application in a mock-up setting. I mean, that would be ideal because there's so much of this in this house that if we approve it without those kinds of restrictive criteria. I know this is probably unprecedented that the Board has ever approved anything and then requested a mock-up to be inspected at a point in the future, which means that, you know, that finish is partially approved conceptually but not fully approved until we get to visit and evaluate the mock-up. I don't know what others think about that idea.

I mean, this becomes a discussion. Having driven the neighborhood and seen a number of the various wood fee pay finishes and so on, similar, that did not come near what we nor likely the client expected, I would wonder if there's even a step further. Like upon six months or a year after, however long, if something shows to have been... Maybe not underrepresented, but just not understood how it would weather. Is there any ability to go forward? I mean, the ideal solution would be that. If we're trying to uphold the aesthetic quality of the community.

Can I add something? Sorry. Absolutely. The vendor that we are most likely going to work with, the one that provided us with the samples, they also do microcement and nanocement. And he has, you know what I mean, they have like a bunch of different things that they work with. And as per his opinion, you know, they said that liquid metal paint, it's, even more up there than the microcement and the nanocement. Again, this is his opinion. As you say, we're not 100% sure.

Has he installed it in South Florida?

They have installed it on exteriors on Coral Gables areas. Coral Gables? Yeah, interiors and exteriors.

Interiors is a different story.

No, yes, that's what I said, interiors and exteriors. It's a new thing that's happening, but a lot of different areas or clients are asking us to at least do small little details here and there of what could be liquid metal paint. The original that we wanted, which is not as nice as this, was just to paint it with a color.

Right.

And at that point we were like, eh, we don't like, you know, we don't like how it looks. The plan B would have been to just clad the facade with like, you know, like a regular PVC wood slats like everybody else does around the area. Yeah, yeah. And something we found to be different and it looks luxurious and it's also high end. It's not cheap, you know, like we can see it's very expensive material.

This is not like a going cheap concern. It's more like, okay, stucco cracks. So what happens when the stucco cracks? when you have such a metallic? I mean, how do these things behave? You know, because it's typically not in the nature of the materiality to apply a metallic product over stucco. I mean...

Especially on a surface that appears to be like 12 by 40.

Yeah, I mean, because even stucco, we need to do like the stucco control joints, you know, for it to move and crack and control the cracking and things like that. So it's like, it's a whole material science concern that I'm bringing up. And it sounds complicated. And I know that the village probably is saying, don't complicate things too much, Mr. Borden. But, you know, in the spirit of really building homes that are one-of-a-kind and very valuable and maintain their beauty through their life, that's the concern. It's like this is unprecedented, right? So you're testing us with this idea.

If you're talking about one-of-a-kind, there's definitely one-of-a-kind in the village right now.

There could be a one-of-a-kind disaster. And that's kind of what we're trying to avoid, right? It's a unique disaster. Go see this. You know, it will be a drive-by experience. So I don't know. I don't know how the rest of the board is feeling about these finishes. I mean, I'm primarily concerned about the gold and the sort of metallic bronze. There's two aspects of it, as I see it. One is sort of does it look happy? Does it look nice? Does it look elegant? Does it look like it's enhancing the character of the architecture of the neighborhood? The other thing is how is it going to perform? It's really not a question of cost or quality or intention. It seems like the owner here has the intention of building something that is high quality and, of course, that performs well. So I don't know.

I have my little concerns here, too. Okay. So, you know, you come up with this, you know, amazing, expensive material that you want to use, and then the base of the building is this plastic cladding. That is very, very, it contradicts the value of what you're doing on top. So this is...

The top of the building is porcelain.

Would like... Oh, it says wood-like. Is that plastic?

Oh, that's PVC. Yes, that's for the back of the building.

It's not for the rear.

It's for the back area.

So in the rear, it transitions from the metallic paint.

So where is that brown material there at the base of the front facade? Which one is that one here? The bronze. The bronze? The liquid metal bronze. The entire house basically is liquid metal. Oh, okay. Except in the rear.

The bottom rear area is what you're going to see on this PVC wood. Again, just for the back, as we know, it's very expensive material to put it on the front and the back. We're trying to create a transition.

Does the slide control have a laser pointer?

I don't. Maybe.

It should.

I'm clicking on it, but I don't think it's...

Is this supposed to have a pointer? We do have a pointer one, so...

I was like, I can't get close to it. I give up on the pointer. Yes, so this area here, is this where you have the...

Yes, correct.

So at some point the bronze, the metal bronze comes and it stops... And then all of this is plastic.

Correct.

And that's basically a value engineering issue.

Yes. You know, I mean, consider that, you know, like a lot of the houses in the area, sometimes on the sides, they leave them completely white. You know, they go five feet to one side and the other, and they don't really take care of it much. We are willing to put PVC wood slats everywhere else on the first floor. Yeah. And this is elevations, too, so you can kind of see. Okay. There you go.

So hold it right there. So this is the front. So that metal finish goes like this?

Until the window.

Up to here?

At the end of the window, yes.

And then from here on is the acrylic?

Yes.

And then over there, how do you make that?

We're making it until the end of the staircase, like that curve of the staircase on the top.

All the way up there?

Front, there, there, there, right there. The landing. Yeah.

From there on, here's the staircase.

Yes.

For next time, color code that. Apply some colored lines, you know. Okay. Graphics are nice, but that would communicate that intention better. Yeah. So then it's a mix of the metallic that we primarily see.

You're not on the mic, Mr. Chair. Sorry. Finish your thought on the mic, please. Yes.

I thought the mic was picking that up. I don't know how sensitive they are. Okay. So, yeah, so basically we're understanding now how your metallic finish wraps around and then it continues with the acrylic, and that is really more of a choice of, you know, putting the dollars in the front where it really matters. and then transitioning to the plastic, which is, you know, a product that some of us are kind of allergic to in the architecture world here in South Florida. Everybody's using it. I mean, it's used in the plastic, acrylic. I mean, it's like McDonald's, Home Depot's. I mean, everybody uses them, and luxury homes as well. So it's one of those materials that has become very democratic.

That's the point that I'm trying to make. I mean, this is this house. You're trying to make it very, very slick and fluid and so on with this material that you're using. And then probably half the house gets this treatment that if it was me, I mean, I'll stucco the house because, you know, this material is really – Being overused now, you know, you see it, like I said, in Burger Kings, you see it all over the place. And this house, you know, you're making a house that is a special home or a special home in the future. So to me, I don't know if we can recommend to reconsider the material in the back, if that's something in our purviews or not.

Mr. Chair, I wanted to point out that in our appearance code, which is what governs your review of these items, we do have subsection 5, which talks about maintenance, and it has the following. Continued good appearance depends upon the extent and quality of maintenance. The choice of materials and their use together with the types of finishes and other protective measures shall be conducive to regular maintenance and upkeep. Materials and finishes shall be selected for their durability and wear as well as for their beauty. Proper measures and devices shall be incorporated for protection against the elements, neglect, damage, and abuse. So with that in mind, that this is within the scope of your review, I heard what you also said somebody did, I believe the applicant, that it is in use in South Florida. They're not breaking ground tomorrow. And so you could direct the building official to follow up before the final plans are approved. to investigate what the performance of the material has been in that other setting and whether it is comparable. Certainly there can be conditions to look further into this. It's a little bit novel. I'm not really sure what our basis would be to require a revisit after installation. I think normally what would happen is if it fails, it would be cited for not meeting the appearance code any longer, not delivering.

Is there precedent of that? Because I've driven through the neighborhood and many of the wood finishes and porcelain.

I doubt that there is precedent for it, but that's the way it works is that, you know, it's a requirement of the certificate of appropriateness. The building is based on that. If it's not matching, that would be the way you would analyze it. Now, I also look to the building official for his thoughts on this as well.

Basically, code enforcement goes out there on a daily basis and drives through the neighborhood. And if they see something that looks not well kept, they'll address it. They'll give you a friendly reminder to the property owner. And then if not, unfortunately, they've got to give them a citation or a violation. Got it. It's up to the eye of the beholder if it's fading, if it's faded, if it's delaminating, or if it's falling apart. When it's in that condition, then they'll note it. But unfortunately, if it's just the wear and tear and the fading with the environment that we live in, it's up to maintenance, but then it gets to the point that they will address it, but not at a rate that could be that will be necessary at some point.

You know, from my standpoint, It's how that material is going to weather and so on is a risk that you as the architect are putting on the client. So myself, I love to experiment with materials, and this is what you're doing here, I think. It's not very visible, so I'm glad you're bringing it out, but it's something between you and your client in terms of the metallic. However, I'm very opposed, but it's up to you. But you mentioned beauty. One of the words that you used was beauty, and that material, the plastic, I hate to Call it plastic, but it is plastic. At the end of the day, it's really not a great material. I just think that a multi-million dollar home like this doesn't deserve that type of cladding in the back. But, again, maybe we can say no, it's up to you. But it just doesn't seem to go well with what you're trying to do in the front. And I'm all for the material you're using. I've never seen it. I think it's going to be. The house is going to give it that, you know, smooth feeling that you want, that flowing, you know, hadith-ish, right? So it's... And then I have a couple of other questions, so I'm just going to jump into my other concerns. The windows, is that a storefront, or are they going to be operable windows?

So there's egress windows because some of those areas are bedrooms. So that's why you see the volume there, so they're going to be, you know, some type of...

So they're not fixed storefronts? Okay. And the other question I had was in the rear. You showed a stair... a spiral stair to the roof. Is that part of the design?

So the staircase is only there because we have the mechanical equipment on the roof. So it's just an easier way, you know, to service the equipment. It's not going to be used for a roof terrace. We don't have anything whatsoever there other than the mechanical equipment and trying to create easy access for it. I...

I understand that. In my firm, we have done things like this, similar. If you need access, there's many different ways of having access to the mechanical that are very simple. But when I see something that's cultural, it lends me to believe that in the future, there's an intention for the rooftop to be...

What we're proposing is just a regular, you know, like standard metal staircase. Just a little spiral staircase? Yeah, a metal spiral staircase like on the side. Again, I guess the plan B is to put a roof ladder on the side. And for that being said, because of our overhangs, we're kind of limited to how we can even put this roof ladder to be able to enter there. I guess a second option may be to create like a roof hatch, you know, like somewhere, you know what I mean, like to try to, again, like go into the roof itself.

There's a lot of issues with roofs that will be used later on for events and neighbors will complain and it becomes a big issue in a lot of neighborhoods. So, you know, to me, I'm concerned with if there's a future intent to use this roof for something

I mean, there is no railings. There's only a one-foot parapet, you know what I mean, to be able to create our drainages. I'm pretty sure the building official or anybody else that reviews our plans will never approve shop drawings or anything for railings to go into this roof. So we are not, again... The intent is not to use it for anything else than just service in the area. If that's a problem, I guess we can remove it and going to figure out how to create a roof hatch, you know, to pull it up somewhere there on the back.

I think it also becomes a life safety thing. If you have a staircase to an inaccessible space and a sign that says don't access thing, you have met the requirements of not having an inaccessible roof. But if there's kids here, myself as, you know, even now, would probably still try to climb it.

So I just – Yeah, so, I mean, I've seen stairs like that in Mexico, right? But it seems like people don't fall there. So no railings, no attorneys to sue you if somebody falls and something happens. So, yeah, so that stair is suspicious, you know, in terms of intent. It is a sculptural element. So, I mean, you know, you're having fun with it. It doesn't seem to be a utilitarian rooftop access stair. It seems to be something more. And in my understanding, the village allows you to access the roof and have a terrace up there if you wish with a glass rail and so on. So I'm not sure what the intent is here because, you know, if it's just to go and service the roof, just do a straight shot, you know, like simple – you know, more discreet somewhere, simpler, but it does have railings. Right now you're not really complying with the Florida Building Code and the safety aspect of that. So that's a concern. I mean...

In other words, if they want to use the roof, They can put railings. They can do it. So it's not an issue if your client has future intention to use it. They can actually request for the roof to be accessible. It's not a problem. I'm not bringing a problem.

I know, I know. I understand Western Dakota is allowed to have the roof terrace. Again, if... everybody's more comfortable for us to have a roof terrace with a small glass access into the, you know, what is going to be the equipment.

Let me just say, it's not about comfort, it's about code compliance. Yeah, yeah. And also about clarity of intention, right? Which I think, for me, that's important, you know, because otherwise, you know, why would we be giving this so much attention? So if this stair is a utilitarian stair to have, you know, mechanics go and maintain the condensing units in the rooftop... That's okay, but it has to have that purpose, and you need to address the railing issue because right now it has no railings. Okay. So that's that. And then if you do, I mean, what happens, these houses, right, beyond this particular family and the way they're going to use it, Let's say it changes hands and the next owner wants to have an active roof. You want to make sure that that slab is designed for live load for an active roof because sometimes people see it and they want to use it. And then, believe it or not, you cannot go up there and dance a macarena because, you know, the structural load doesn't allow, right?

Yeah, I mean, I will speak to the structural engineer, and there is definitely going to be a generator up there, so it has to hold, that generator size is around 1,900 pounds.

Right, but the generator is a concentrated load, you know, but in general, if you're going to have access, you know, how much is the terrace, and how much of that slab is designed for that weight, and all those things, right?

Yeah, I will speak to the client.

Let's be on our scope here as a board. I'm just sort of giving you some free advice, okay? So going back to materiality, because that seems to be a big trouble here for some of us. I mean, are we okay with the coloration with the golden trim and the bronze? I mean, outside of its performance, are we okay with the aesthetics of it?

I would give some guidance as to the detailing of the control joints and possibly using those control joints to create a pattern to disguise the need to probably recess that water feature because that water is going to just cascade in all directions and you're going to have a nasty looking surface. So if you could use the control joints to... If you want to experiment on your reputation and the client's risk, I'm not saying don't, I'm just saying that that's the reality.

Yes.

I think that's control enough.

No, and I completely understand. Originally, our first original render, and I'm sure Eliezer has also seen them, we had stackable veneer stones, like a black and a darker area. We felt like stone is good if you're going to put the waterfalls and everything. This is a client request. They wanted, you know, like liquid metal paint because they just saw it. They, you know, they've spoken to the manufacturer. They said it's good. And they're trying to make a statement on something that's new and different.

This works in a rendering. I think it will fail in real life. And so I think you need to take some measures to account for the likelihood of that, like control joints, like slightly recessing the plane that the water is on so that when it does – calcify on the surface. It's controlled and it's not just like this mottled gray front. So I think they're just measures and I think we can give guidance as to what we would suggest, but I wouldn't mandate those. I just think it's beholden on you and the client's interest and your reputational interest to figure it out.

Thank you.

So let's talk about the fountain and the intention and the detailing of the fountain. So we kind of see it in the rendering if we look closely that there's water falling over that metallic finish, right?

Mm-hmm.

And that's kind of like a cascade, a vertical surface.

Correct.

With water falling down like a cascade.

Mm-hmm.

Okay. So there are different things to be concerned about there. First of all, on a windy day, that water is going to go everywhere right now because it's just kind of just coming down, you know, it's like. Gravity is not attaching it too much to the wall. You know, you've got a very slick surface. There's going to be, you know, possibly mold, you know, associated with this. It's very humid depending on solar exposure. You know, these sort of mold conditions may appear in a condition that doesn't really want mold, right? You want this to be clean and slick and perfect looking all the time. And then, you know, in the drawing, like we don't see exactly how the fountain works. I'm assuming that there's like a river rock bed that receives this water that is acting as a fountain.

I'm assuming that because your drawings don't really describe. I don't know if you can see it, but yes, like you said.

In the landscape plan?

You can really see it, but it's like a legacy.

I mean, I see this sort of pregnant shape here. That's what I see. Right?

Yeah, on the landscape plan, there's about a 12-inch or 15-inch one.

Yeah, so then there should be a note there that says go see landscape plan so we could understand the fountain better.

Yeah, I mean, also when we do the structure of it and, you know, we add it, it's technically considered a small pool, I guess, you know.

Yes, yeah, because you're going to be holding water and then... Yeah, so your rendering is sort of intending to show these streaks like a fountain, and the client wanted a feature there, and that's what you're doing, even though the detailing is not there. We have to assume how this thing works. Yeah, so I question how that's going to perform in the future. I caution you that it may not be... I can see there's an arrow in the landscape plan that says water feature by other, but the arrow is actually pointing inside the garage. So somebody needs to manage arrows a little bit more carefully. So I see this sort of condition in the landscape plan. I don't know how the board feels about that. I think that that is also an experiment. I don't know. Do we have any successful vertical walls with water falling like this in this community that have performed?

I mean, if you're okay with us putting the, you know, like technically the waterfall not on the roof, right, but on the wall itself, we can also change that.

Yeah, we're not fountain experts, but then, you know, we know enough to respect that as its own design problem, right, because, you know, it depends on how it drips and when it drips and if it's a windy day and how you contain it, how you control it.

and how it creates a condition for mold, you know. Calcium buildup ends up being just as bad. I mean, you can drive the street into the neighborhood, and I can think of like two that have a fountain like this that looks nothing like it was intended. It is just a big, you know, mess.

Let's talk about this because, you know, I think we got to leave the detailing up to them. She's taking a big risk. The owner, God knows what he's thinking. I think in our experience, and we've been around a while, that wall, it's going to be very difficult to make it work. You know, the wind, the exterior conditions, you know, that water, typically it should be probably, you're probably intending, what, maybe an eighth inch of water just rippling? Or are you intending washing water or an inch of water?

So when it comes to that, I'm hoping to eventually get, you know what I mean, like all the recommendations from the people that are going to be doing the pool and that they're going to be recommending the systems and the, you know, and the MEP itself that, you know, like has some knowledge on that situation. And we have to tie it up with the person that's doing the liquid metal.

We understand. We understand. Let me stop you there. And, Mr. Gomez, nobody here is detailing anything. We're just sharing our concerns that this thing is not carefully thought through. She's experimenting with so much.

This house could be an incredible success. Incredible.

Yeah. So all we could do here is sort of say, hey, this could be trouble. This could have a performance issue. And it's the primary facade. Ideally, it would be required by mandate by the city that if it's such an important feature that we need to see everything about that fountain. We need to see fully executed fountain drawings that illustrate how this is going to work and how it will be functional and have your fountain experts come and explain it to us and all that because it's right in the front of this house. If this thing doesn't work, You know, I think it's a tragedy, right? Because the owner certainly will pay a lot of money for an experiment that may fail. So we're just giving them friendly advice, because there's not going to be anything more than that, that that fountain is a concern. You know, the metallic issue, the application of it, it's also experimental. Minor detail, I would also consider applying it to the garage door because suddenly the garage door is unspecific in terms of how it's going to look materially in reference to this wonderful metallic thing. And then lastly, my concern about the Iberia tile, porcelain tile, as you represent it, you have curving corners. Last time I checked, this porcelain tile doesn't like to deal with curving corners.

I know which we're thinking of cutting them small.

Doing little vertical pieces, you know, and achieving these sort of segmented pieces that give you the roundness.

Correct.

Got it.

Can I ask you a question? Do we have the rights or can we request that certain items be brought back to the board for review to see what is the reality of this fountain? Can we ask for them to resubmit or to submit shop drawings that we can say, yes, this works or not? Or you just want to leave it up to...

Well, I think what you're suggesting is that we provide an approval with conditions, and these conditions would request that they come back with certain things as a follow-up presentation. Because, you know, the fountain is a separate permit, right? We know that's a separate permit. So since it is a separate permit, could we request that that fountain, since it's such a critical element, be brought to us with its full, you know, engineered solution and details? I mean, I would, I mean, I'm super curious because I'm also excited about new materials as you are to go and see where this has been applied, this metallic finish has been applied to stucco and how it's performing today. Because one thing, if it was installed six months ago or if it was installed 60 years ago, I doubt it. So it's probably something new, right? Because there's a lot of innovation with materials and things like this now in this market that we're in. So, you know, I would be curious to go and see how that is performing. The stucco work has to be like perfect because whatever is imperfect in the stucco is going to come through in your beautiful metallic finish. So that's why I think there's incompatibility between the sort of metallic thing that you expect it to be on a Lamborghini, and this is not a Lamborghini finish house in terms of the stucco.

Yeah, you're going to need like a Venetian plaster finish before you apply this.

Now, she is applying, I'm glad you reminded, in a segment of the facade where she transitions from the metallic to the plastic, she is using a plaster finish as well.

Yeah, I mean, we will also, again, I'll talk to the companies that may be applying the liquid metal paint and asking for their advice into what they think have worked in the past, you know, like when they applied it, how they do it. I mean, I'm more than happy to come back, you know, like to you.

So, Susan, how do we do that? How do we give them the ability to continue to go into technical construction permit drawings? and still give us a chance to review some of these specialty finishes and details before they have a final, final.

I think either you approve the certificate or you don't. And it's more common for you to approve the certificate with conditions that give directions to Ellie and his staff to follow up on the things that are important to you. If you're not ready to approve it, then normally you would ask them to revise and come back with the designs.

Some of these things are going to require time and it's going to delay them, right? So if we approve it with these conditions, then we put more responsibility on the building official and his team.

And as a separate matter, the building official could choose to coordinate with you as a board about materials, you know, and report back on what he's seeing in the community. I mean, while we were discussing this, I also found another part of the appearance code, which may be of interest to you for the client. We do require buildings shall be cleaned, painted, or repaired regularly and as required to present a neat appearance. deteriorated, worn, or damaged portion shall be rebuilt or replaced. And so if Nathan's concern is proven out with a code inspection, there's a basis to cite there. And so if they're signing up to every six months or a year having to repaint with that extraordinarily expensive material, maybe they start to make different decisions, but that's on them.

What I've been told is that this material, even though we say it's liquid metal paint, it's actual liquid metal.

I looked it up while we were sitting here. It's a metal flake within a resin binder. So it's a paint that's high concentration of bronze powder, basically.

I think the norm in situations like this is for you also to provide the specification of these things, not just a pretty sample. Okay. Because at the end of the day, it's all about the chemistry of that and understanding that to make us feel more comfortable.

But that's not happening in my world right now. I'm not comfortable about this. Will the fountain shop drawings have to come back before us? So when they get the shop drawings and the permit for this? fountain by others, would that typically come before this board? Because if that's the case, then they already have reason enough to argue their case. They have an obligation at that point to the client to, like, point out the risks of such a thing, and we have the ability to not have to make a condition. It's going to come back anyways.

Basically, it's like Susan stated a little while ago. It doesn't necessarily come back the way it's been done in the past, but it will be something – that if it's a condition that you guys implement, then we'll bring it back at that time. But usually the designer record, we'll stamp the deferred submittal, saying that it complies with their intent and their design, and then we verify that it complies with all the applicable codes that it needs to comply. That's the shop drawing review, basically. But if you want to be able to see this one in particular, then it will be, basically we could put that, that fountain will be a separate permit, and by itself it needs to come for the board to review.

So it's a shop drawing right now?

Right now it's a shop drawing, but we can make it as a separate permit, and we'll put that as one of the conditions is that if that's what you guys desire, and then we'll bring that fountain by itself.

Could we keep it as a shop drawing so not have to go through all the other paperwork and process of doing a standalone permit? It's up to you guys. So if we keep it as a shop drawing, but we make it a condition that that shop drawing, when detailed, come before us again for a final rule? Does that seem...

I think it's the same thing is what he's saying. They don't have to go further than a shop drawing to present it to us. But I think the feeling is, reality is, we feel that that fountain might not work unless there's some serious engineering done to it. they can also opt out and say, I don't want the fountain. I don't know how strongly you as the architect or the owner feels about the fountain. If you feel that is something that is not that important to the project,

Yeah, I mean, this was a request by them, not by us. You know, I would have to talk to, I'm more than happy if it gets approved with the conditions for you to review the shop drawings for us to talk to the owner, you know, say like, hey, here are all the opinions. It's recommended not to have it. You know, we've also given our own recommendations.

We're not recommending not to have it. I think it would be a very... Yeah, yeah. Sorry, sorry.

Not to have it, that it's going to cause issues because it may not work properly.

Right. I just think they need to be appropriately warned of the risk that you and they are taking on.

You know, and you brought up a comment that, again, part of all this testing, you have this... cladding this metal paint and so on you have a garage door that corner obviously the rendering doesn't show it uh it could look very different than what you're imagining how everything here is going to be so monolithic and most likely it's not going to be as monolithic as we all would like to think. You have that garage door, you have the door to the house, you have glass. It's sort of a difficult rendering to understand because it's so dark in there.

I don't know if you can see the garage door, but we actually have spoken to a vendor that can make... Oh, it's very hard to tell in here. I can give you the shop drawings of that we do have with the NOAs. It's in a specific metal garage store, very unique. You haven't really seen it, you know, like out there. It has these really interesting handles. Again, this is an interesting client, you know. These are the requests that we've been asked to do.

I think, look, you're venturing into a lot of I want to do and I think I'm imagining and all that. Yeah, one of them. I don't mind accepting this, but I'm telling you, I wish you luck with the success of the house because there's a lot of testing here that you're doing that...

Now, Mr. Gomez, I think that I don't see how you feel about this because, you know, we do this as volunteers, right? For the benefit of this beautiful community to make sure that we try to bring some quality control to the built environment. If we request that we get to review. shop joints, as a secondary action. The first action is that we approve it with these conditions. We like to review shop joints for this or for that or for this, right? Which primarily is because they're kind of untested experimental issues that we like to learn more about them. So several things happen. First of all, you bring more work to the building official who's already very busy. So, you know, now the building official becomes an extension of the Board of Architects in many ways here in the ARB. So, you know, I got hesitations about that. But to me, it does create a better process, right? If we really care about, oh, it's a pretty picture, but how will it perform? And I think that's a concern, right? How will it perform? I mean, we approve something, and then we drive by three or four years from now, and it's a disaster, right? And we approved it. And there were no other steps taken to make sure that we bring, because we know that, you know, God is in the details. You know, we like to follow through. So sometimes you only discover these things with engineer shot joints of a fountain of, you know, like a better understanding of that material. You know, I mean, I'm one that ventures into going to visit. If you tell me, look, there is a house in Golden Beach that uses material and they installed it a year ago, go see it. go and see it and feel better about it, I don't know, and report back to the board or we all go, you know, on our own and then we come back. I mean, because, again, we're approving something that is unprecedented in a way. I mean, she's got Lyme-based something. I mean, we all know how Lyme-based pain performs, right? Because, you know, we see it in Villa Capra and Vicenza or whatever. You know, it's a material that we're used to understanding how it performs through time.

You just mentioned going to see it later on and coming back. If we approve this today, unless we put a condition, we can't do anything after we come back next month.

No, no, go and see it where it's been. I mean, to evaluate it, it's an evaluation period, the same way we would evaluate shop joints. So, for example, the Board of Architects in Coral Gables, and I don't want this to ever be like the Board of Architects in Coral Gables because they meet, I think, like once a week. And they take like 60 applications, so I don't think that this wants to be that. But they do follow up with some details, and they do request people to come back with follow-up articulated detailing on things. like sharp joints and so on. And they have a more expeditious, they kind of do that at the first part of the meeting. They just review. Let's say we do in the first, you know, we have three or four sharp joints to review. We do that at the beginning. We do that fast. Yes, no, we may redline it, send it back. And then we do the review of a formal application, you know, the traditional way. I don't know. That gives us, because this is going to continue to happen where we're going to continue to see innovative applications of materials and things that either we do this or we don't and we just approve the pretty picture and hope and pray that it works out.

You know, my feelings on a philosophical level on this is that we are essentially a studio review, like a very academic in nature. Personally, I don't want to stifle the innovation that's coming out of the applicants. And I like the novel materials that they're attempting to use. But I feel like it would be arduous to put a process in place for them to have some sort you know, system of pre-approved materials or anything like that, it just becomes impossible to regulate and restrictive on the throughput of the permitting process. So my inclination is just to be a friendly review and rely upon the reputational and legal liability of the architect and builder and the financial, you know, interest of the client to, you know, to work out. That's kind of my intent.

Okay, so we don't differ a lot, but here we have an owner that didn't really take an effort to be with us here today and explain his passion for this. We have an architect of record that we have no idea where he exists on Lincoln Road. We have a designer that is using his license to get this thing approved. There are a lot of things here that make me feel uncomfortable about these processes, okay? And if we want to turn this into a Mickey Mouse, you know, review board, I'm out, okay? I'm serious about what I do. I'm not suggesting that we require anything scientific. I'm just saying that they give us, if it's a material that was used somewhere already and has been tested, I want to go see it because it affects my practice. I'll learn something. It's one of the reasons why I spend the time doing this because I learn something from it. That's all I'm saying. With a fountain, it's a simple thing. You don't approve a house that has a fountain in a main primary facade without understanding the detailing and how that fountain performs. So they come back with shop joints. Very simple. This is how it works. They could bring other fountain experts.

Prove to us beyond a reasonable doubt that this is an amazing idea.

That's not unreasonable. Yeah, fair enough. So, you know, again, when the facade has elements that are supposed to perform in a very, you know, untraditional way that we're not used to seeing, I mean, we've all seen a lot of fountains, right? But this one is unique, you know, and then it's over this sort of metallic paint over stucco. I mean, it has a lot of things. You know, I would like to understand how your waterproofing consultant is going to deal with all these things, you know, how that gets done. So, again, it's sort of A challenge to come back, but Susan is sort of saying you have to approve it and let them proceed, and then they could submit shop joints.

I'm saying you need to decide whether to issue the certificate or not. Either you're not approving it today, you can't just say, I want to be the good guy and always say yes, but I also want to make you come back. Either you're approving it today or you're not. And if you're not approving it today, we reschedule it. It comes back and you give them direction for what to do when they come back. If you are approving it today, it's approved. And then it's got to have the conditions that direct the staff how to respond. That's what I'm trying to say.

Okay, but this is a question. Are the conditions, are we in the conditions? Can we request that it's brought back to the board? For the shop drawings? For the shop drawings.

That's what the building official just offered to you, I believe. Okay.

So, I mean, if you guys want to go in that direction, you could put that as a condition. As a condition. Get built and get it approved.

I'm just saying we can't be half pregnant. Either we've got a certificate or we don't. Because it's a final approval. Right.

I don't want to say it, but that's the actual word. But there's two conditions that I see. And the condition is the paint, finish, and they've got to bring back the water feature. Right.

Those will be the two conditions.

Be straightforward. That way you can, you know, the bulk of the house, you'll be able to move it forward. You'll be able to do your construction documents and so on. But those two items... we'll have to come back through.

It gives them time because these are all sort of construction document coordination items. So they got time, you know. Not a lot of time if you want a building permit quickly, because you won't approve a building permit until we review those shop joints and they satisfy us.

That would be the... That's the other question. We could do that while the construction is being done and the permit already has been issued, or you could do it as part of condition of issuing the master permit. That's up to you guys. But you need to amend the conditions to add that. And the attorney will address how we could add that to the conditions, and that will be condition number 19, condition number 20, or how many others you want.

It's kind of similar. You have item 15, perimeter landscaping required by certificate of appropriateness must be maintained by property owner. I mean, it could be something that gives them time, but, you know, it's integrated into the overall construction document, so it should be. at a time that is not too late, right? If somehow...

Prior to building permit. Yeah. Prior to building permit. Priority of time, if you say prior to building permit.

Yeah. Do you understand that condition? Do you have any comments on it?

No, but I guess we're just going to have to do a lot of our shop drawings a lot earlier than we were thinking because it's going to be prior to building permit.

It's not just a shop door. You're going to see that that detailing is going to affect the architecture of that wall. At the end of the day, it's not going to be a flat wall where you're going to apply a paint and you're going to have water cascading on it. There's details that are going to affect the architecture. You might have to recess that wall, you know, half an inch. Or you might have to do something so that the water stays and the water is not going all over the place. So, you know, it's part of the architecture. It's not just simply a shop drawing that we're requesting.

Yeah.

All right.

Agreed.

Okay.

I think we got clarity, so we can take a vote now.

Well, I think what you're looking for is a motion with conditions. And we did read the public comment. I don't think we have any public comment in the room. Just double checking. And there's no more online. Okay. So I want to be clear myself on what these conditions are. So the applicant shall, you tell me, Ellie, submit shop drawings.

Submit further detail and shop drawings. further detail and shop drawings for the water feature. Now about the paint, a kind of how do we address the paint part. And this will be prior to a building permit.

So the burden is on the applicant to give us an understanding where we could learn more about these finishes and provide that information to the building official who will communicate it to each of us. And we may have a period of, say, maybe three or four months to go and visit and then report back in one of our meetings what we learned in that visit of the material.

Prior to whenever that meeting is scheduled. Right. We're trying to do it prior to. We would have to. Exactly. Yeah. Now, how do we know who's going to give us the location of this? The applicant.

Is it also okay to cut down the time? You're saying within three to four months, can we do anything sooner than that? Because otherwise, again, we're just waiting.

I'm fine. How soon are you going to do permit documents on this? You already done?

Most of them are already done. The owner wanted to take the risk. If it doesn't get approved, they will go through the revisions necessary.

So this is just a sharp joint that you're doing proactively and bringing it back. So we could review it as soon as you bring the sharp joint. I mean, yeah. They should bid it on time.

Yes.

But then the paint, I guess, we need as soon as possible to know where to go see this. Right.

And I have a question about the paint, just if you don't mind. Is we're having issues with the paint because of the waterfall itself or just because of the paint itself? Because I also want to speak to the client.

It's a standalone issue.

I mean, I think, you know, I want to speak to the client.

There's more complexity to the issue, you know. But to me, it's just, you know, remove the fountain. How is that going to perform as a finish over stucco?

Mm-hmm.

Now, we've all seen, just to give you some facts, these sort of dripping waterfalls that we've used in projects that has like a simple arch, and then you get these little droplets. So that doesn't rely on a surface. It's just sort of water in front of the surface. So there are all kinds of ways that you could solve this. Right now, to me, the concern is, is it really coming down the wall? Is it in front of the wall? You know, and when you bring the wind factor, where does it go? How do you contain it so it doesn't become a concern?

Just as a point of personal privilege, if you go to the farm here across the mall, the center farm has something similar to that on a marble finish, and there's a gentleman every day at 7.30 in the morning polishing it. Every single day in the shop.

And what happens when he doesn't polish it? You could see it white instead of the black. That's the calcium buildup thing.

There's a gentleman there, his name is David, and he talks to him every single day. He does it early in the morning. So maybe they could contract him. Maybe we could get a part-time over here. You have an example of that.

Yes. So is there a condition regarding the finish? It's a separate item than the water feature. Do you guys have a condition that you're going to require? On the plastic? On the metal finish, on the metal paint finish.

Well, the metal, we'd like to see where it's been applied and how successful it is, just for us to see it again prior to obtaining a building permit.

So I've been trying to play with the language. Let me give it a shot. The applicant shall, number one, submit further details and shop drawings for the fountain. Number two, submit information regarding the reliability of the paint material, including the location of where it has been used in South Florida and information regarding the durability and maintenance over stucco. Upon receipt of the complete additional information on these two topics, the building official will schedule the house for further ARB review prior to building permit. Is that what you guys are envisioning?

Yes, I'm in agreement.

And then the only question is, are you actually approving the certificate today, or are you waiting for that next meeting to approve it?

Well, let's take a vote. I would add one further condition.

By the way, it takes three affirmative votes to approve a certificate.

I would add one further condition on the Live Oaks.

Okay.

To have an arborist confirm that they cannot, the two Live Oaks 6 and 9 cannot be relocated within the site.

Have arborists confirmed that trees six and nine cannot be relocated within the site?

Correct. I would add to that or confirm that trees will be relocated within the site.

Yeah, the inverse of the same thing.

The weather.

Yeah, I mean, because I think that's the objective is to try to give those oak trees a new life in a different place that doesn't ruin all the other amenities that the owner would like to accomplish.

Can we confirm that six and nine are the oaks before you make it a condition?

I have no idea.

Can you go to the landscape plan? I don't know if you can zoom in well enough.

Yeah, I don't know if I can see them from here.

I can probably stand up here and see. Thank you.

So that separate condition is have the arborist confirm whether trees six and nine can be relocated within the site, and if so, relocate them within the site. Correct.

So that would be an arborist report, no? You want a report or a letter?

There will be an arborist letter that they will survive. Because they'll tell you the condition of the tree, whether it's healthy enough to survive. They would say it without being in full report.

And before we take a vote, I just want a friendly suggestion. Please look into that plastic material and think about it. That's just a friendly suggestion.

And secondly, it seems like some of your screening fencing for equipment is noted as being PVC?

Yes.

Do we know if that's allowed in the village, PVC fencing, Home Depot specials?

I believe that I haven't seen nothing in the code that restricts it, but in the meantime that it has an engineered design or a product approval, and the maximum height and the method of attachment is approved, but I need to look into it more. That's the only note that it says wood-like slats. I haven't seen a product approval for that.

Yeah, I know. We have to submit our shop drawings for everything.

Yeah. I mean, the only thing that I see in communities that don't allow them is that perhaps the way they perform through time, they kind of fall apart and so on. They're not as durable. You know, it's an aluminum solution, for example. Like coal gables doesn't allow wood fencing because, you know, they decay and they deteriorate fast, you know. So it's a question of material durability and whether the village allows it or not. Okay.

I mean, we're more than happy to give you something else, but sometimes the aluminum power coated would like, from what I've been told from other clients, is that within time, if the sun hits it, it does tend to fade off. And even though the company says 20 years warranty, nothing would happen to it, they do tend to have those fadings.

It depends on what color you use, what color it's going to have in plastic. What's the color in the PVC?

The PVC, we haven't chosen it. We just said that it was going to be wood-like. We have to figure out the materials.

Wood-like PVC?

Yeah, there is. I mean, technically, a similar material to this one would be the one that we're going to be using.

Okay.

Sorry. I've heard you say a few things that do you want to include in your conditions or your statement to the designer that you would like to see the architect present at the next time?

No. Okay. I mean, it's just a general concern about our industry and how things get represented. And, you know, there is no requirement for licensing to present to a design review board that I'm aware of. So a designer could come and present to us, but she cannot sign and seal these documents and get a building permit.

Right.

But for my taste, I would like to see everybody involved in these presentations.

So does the applicant understand what we're planning to do with this vote? We'll see if the board votes yes, but just so we all understand.

I don't know that the city is going to mandate that, but okay. A lot of trouble here today, so it's supposed to be good trouble, but it depends how you see it. So let's take a vote. Motion passed.

I have a motion to approve with the three conditions plus the building reviewers' comments and conditions.

And that would be approval and those three things would happen. I hear you. Okay. Is there a second?

I second. Okay. All right. So. Now vote. All those in favor, say aye. Aye.

Aye.

All right. So we got three votes out of three members today. You have an approval. Thank you for tolerating us, and we'll see you soon.

Thank you.

Congratulations.

They're getting creative, you know.

Yeah, so when they're done speaking. Correct.

And most likely, like I said, she's probably going to be on the phone. So you're going to have to talk to her.

I'm going to see her.

I'm going to talk to her. Yeah, and we wanted to talk to her. You're a professional. I understand. I understand. No, no, no.

Well, they're taking a gamble on that. I'm going to talk to her. I'm going to talk to her.

Yeah, we have just a real quick item. So the 4th of June is not going to be doable for the building officials. So he's asking that we move the meeting to another week. So we can do the, like Rinaldi said, the 11th is okay. Okay. But if everyone can look at their calendars right now.

Give us two seconds here.

It doesn't have to be a Thursday. It's whenever everyone's available.

We do it a week after is, oh, shucks. I'm in San Diego with that AIA conference.

Actually, I can't do the 11th either.

Okay.

Although I could see if someone could cover for me.

Can we try the 18th?

Monday the 25th? No, it was June the 25th.

Oh, June the 25th. June the 25th.

Wait. Yeah.

Okay.

June the 18th and June the 25th work for me.

Okay.

25th works for me.

You're shaking your head no.

No, I'm gone the majority of June. So it would have to be someone else standing in.

For both of those days? Yes.

Yeah, so I'm gone from the 11th through the 30th. So we still have other active members in this board.

What about between the 4th and the 11th? We can try to get quorum.

I'll call them up and just... Do you want to test both the 18th and the 25th?

We can test both days, and I can get back to you.

Okay, super.

Everyone okay with both those days? Thank you.

I was okay with 18 and 25.

Okay. Okay. So I will call the other two and we'll confirm and I'll let you know. Okay. And Nathan, if you want to, you can always attend via Zoom.

Okay.

Great.

Thank you. Well, we bring the meeting to closure then.

Great.

Let's go have a party. Thank you.

Spirit of response. Suggest that I clarify my intention. I don't want to slide on you.