Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

so good afternoon it's a 102 and I'm going to call to order the Planning Commission meeting for 17th of June June 2026 I see that we have a quorum president. The only commission member not able to attend today is the mayor. But we have 4 of the 5 members and so we do have a quorum. I want to I want to say that I want to say I'm sorry for the inconvenience for the time change. I know some people came up here at noon and didn't know about it and but my goal was to try to make sure we had as many of the commissioners available. for this particular meeting and and the support staff that has been reviewing the The the one communication that we do have today. So again, sorry for the inconvenience I would like to ask everybody who intends to speak to raise their right hand and confirm that everything that you will present today to this commission will be true and accurate to the best of your knowledge. And if that's the case, say, I do. I do. Thank you very much. So there's a sign-up sheet going around. Please fill that in. And when you come to speak at the podium, please give your full name. We have another person here today that normally isn't taking the minutes, and I want to make sure she can get the names correctly for our record. So thank you very much. With that, the first item on the agenda is the disposition of our minutes from the May 6th meeting. Commissioners, I believe you all have received them. Are there any corrections or any additional information that needs to be added to those or anything that needs to be removed that you feel ought to be removed? And if not, I'll entertain a motion to accept the minutes as presented.

So moved.

Second. Second, okay. So no further discussion? Okay, so all in favor of the minutes say aye. Aye. Any opposed? So the minutes pass. We have no cases today, but A communication it's a title 21 application from for Evan Avenel crossing I'd like to ask the developer to come to the come to the podium tell us his name and address and then also to Update us on what he is like what he would like to do James humbly was sunset development the lead developer and

General partner, majority general partner for the project, so owner also developer. My company is submitting for approval for subdivision approval. Avenue crossing which is to be 60 units of housing in one, two and three bedrooms. My co-partner is David Funk of Capstone, local developer, local management company. The engineer that we've hired for the project is McCarty & Associates. Garrett's here to talk about the details of the design and the subdivision.

I think that's it. Okay. Would you as the engineer like to say anything here initially?

Yes. Gareth Berger with McCarty Associates on behalf of the developer, Sunset Development. We're based at 213 North High Street, Hillsborough, Ohio 45133. This development is a multifamily development coming off of Avenel Drive and then Donna Lane. Donna Lane will be improved. The development will include two apartment-style buildings. They will be three stories and then two townhome-style buildings. Those will be two stories and then a maintenance office. We are providing 120 parking spaces to meet code. We are planning to extend sanitary sewer from Avenel with Forest Main and then do gravity sewer on our site to a lift station and then tap water from Hooper Lane and then extend it up along Avenel onto our site to serve the development. And then we also have a detention basin in the back to provide stormwater management, again, to meet code.

Thank you. I believe that there have been numerous discussions. Mr. Pyle, do you have anything that you'd like to present with regard to what involvement you and or Ms. Jennings have had with the project thus far?

Well, let me defer to the planner real quick. Do you have? I don't have anything. Okay. My office received the application on the 20th or 21st. There's two different dates attached to the packet that I received, but I think it was the 21st for this development. Of course, I looked over the submission along with our former co-director, David Riggs, and we made some notes. In no particular order, I'll just mention a few of the things that we have questions about that we think apply. The majority of our concerns that we would have in the city don't apply simply because this is a three-mile radius project and our zoning does not extend into the three-mile radius. We're talking specifically about application of Section 21 of Athens City Ordinance, which is the subdivision. The first question we have for the developers, would they be seeking any variance? It wasn't obvious to us that there would need to be any variance requested of the zoning commission. I'm sorry, of the Planning Commission, but that's just a general question we have. We have a question about who would receive the performance bond under 210802. I believe that would go to the county because it would be the county that would ultimately, the roadway that is causing this to be a subdivision as it's developed would have to be developed to county standards and not city standards. We believe the performance bond would go to the county, but it's not clear in our law how that gets handled, so we'd have to get an answer to that question. The hearing process would remain the same. The design standards for the sewer would be per county standards. The design standards for water would be LEACs specifically and not city. We would like to discuss some landscaping. and the main entrance to potentially shield the two lots, lot five and lot six that are listed on the preliminary plot here. I went up and looked at that drive Monday. What is today? Wednesday? Yeah, I went up Monday and looked at it. There is some canopy behind those two houses that would separate the properties. So I don't know, uh, have the developer answer the question of whether or not that canopy is going to stay or if they're going to replace it. But, uh, certainly as the road goes down, um, Donna lane and then hangs to the left, according to the plan, there is some canopy there that could help the serve to shield the two lots there. Um, certainly it's not required to do that, but it's a discussion we'd like to have. Um, I forwarded the plan to the Richland area fire chief would be the primary agency fire department that would serve that facility. Obviously, Athens fire department would be a substantial and immediate backup in those cases. Had both the fire chiefs down at the office to look at the plans and they have some current concerns with turning radius as the parking lot's designed. We'd want to have a discussion about perhaps a mountable curb down there. And the fire chief is here with us and can speak right after me. I also forwarded the plan to the Athens County Planner, and he responded this week. And he is here and is able to speak to his concerns. He has concerns that I've already shared with the developer about the design of the road as it extends into that subdivision. And so, again, that would be pertinent. county engineer. And so I don't know if they've had conversation with county engineer, but I'm sure they'll address that with us. There's no flood zone areas. So I think that would be primarily the questions that we would want to discuss and come up with some solutions on. And then I'll let the fire chief. from Richland Area Fire Department introduce himself and step up there and Chief Ralph Phelps. Before they do, I have a question.

Ali and I were just discussing this beforehand. I don't know if this is a question for both of you or just a discussion, a comment. Recognizing that zoning doesn't apply outside of the city, the concept of a PUD is moot because that's why we would do a PUD. because it would be a way to basically not have to go through the variance process with zoning. If that's the case, and I think perhaps the county planner, when he gets up to talk about it, can zero in on this particular issue, but setbacks are bulk controls are zoning controls. If you can't do a PUD because there's no zoning in that particular area, it makes it moot. You're really looking at subdivision regulations, and if the subdivision regulations have setbacks in them, those control. Does that sound correct? And if you can't meet those, that would have to be a subdivision variance, not a zoning variance. Am I saying that correctly?

The major subdivision has its own set of bulk controls that should match the zoning controls. And so if they were intended to not meet those bulk controls that are in Title 21, they'd request a variance. But Planning Commission has the ability to to send a variance to council.

We can recommend it, go forward with that variance. I wanted to make sure we got to the specifics on that particular thing. Chief.

Good afternoon. I'm Ralph Phelps, Chief of the Fire Department. We will be the primary responding agency covering this. So some of my concerns are the access point, Avenel Road up to it in the wintertime. I can let the township trustees address that if they choose to at some point. The road conditions for us to get even up the hill to get into the subdivision. Once we get on scene with the subdivision only having a single entry point and egress point from the buildings out, I'm concerned that once we would get on site if we had a major incident and we have an apparatus set up that we're not going to be able to evacuate anybody from the back of the complex out to the main road. if that needed to be. If we were at building one or two, that completely closes off the access to the entire complex. I'd like to see some sort of access road out the back and around building four, back out to the main road. I'd like to see a couple hydrants added, possibly in the area of buildings one and two. That way they're on the left side of the road as we're going in. Could kind of alleviate a little bit of that issue of blocked roadways with lines across the roads. The access behind the buildings for ground ladder, it's kind of unclear on what we've seen as far as plans yet of the distance especially between building three and the top of the retaining wall. for the detention pond. Not sure how much room was going to be there. I'd like to see enough room to set up a ladder, a 35-foot ladder. The setback for the base is going to be around 9 feet, and I'd like to have 8 to 10 feet at the bottom of that ladder for a workable area. The same way with behind building four to make sure we have enough flat area to set up a ground ladder if we need to. Our department does not have a tower ladder truck. We're going to refer to Athens City for mutual aid for a ladder truck if we need a ladder truck on this incident. Chief Reimer has given me the turning radiuses for their ladder truck. They need a 40 foot outside turning radius. There's several places within this complex that have 24-foot areas. We're going to need to do something about that. Mr. Pyle discussed possibly mountable curbs at the end of the island in the parking lot. Possibly, I'd like to see where the dumpster's at on the drawing, maybe flipped and set back in a little bit. That way we're not having to swing out around the dumpster to get back into Building 3. Let's see. I'm not sure what your timeline is on the construction and how you build things in. It's been brought to my attention from a few other jobs currently that there's construction going on, wood frame construction specifically, and there's no hydrants, workable hydrants, once the construction has started. So I'd like to see the water lines in place and the hydrants operational before the build starts. We need to know the FTC locations and the sprinkler and alarm types that are going to be there. I've also been contacted by I can't remember the company now, I'm sorry. RCS Construction possibly. Questioning Knox Boxes, what we would like on the buildings or what is required to be on the buildings. Of course, we're out in the township. I would refer that back to Mr. Pyle and Chief Reimer as what they would recommend be on the buildings as far as Knox Boxes. The other problem I have with Knox Boxes, Our department is not currently set up with a Knox box system. We do not have the ability to open Knox boxes. We don't carry keys. For us to do that, it's going to be a hardship on our budget because it's $1,800 a truck, and I'd have to do four trucks. I'm not sure where we'll find that money at. That's $7,000-plus, and that's my fuel budget for the entire year. If I have to spend that, then it's a possibility we won't be able to have fuel. The other issue I have, we also respond occasionally to some incidents within other capstone managed properties and we have a horrible time getting contact or having maintenance respond if we need someone for maintenance. I'd like to see something in place from capstone if they're going to be the property manager for this. That gives us a timeline that we can have somebody on scene when we request at a 30-minute interval or something to that nature. We've had responses from them prior to this of it's not an emergency, we'll respond the beginning of the week. If I'm there, it's an emergency. That's all I have.

Thank you. Anybody have any questions of the fire chief here? Yes.

What's a Knox box? The Knox box is every building in the city I believe is required to have one.

That's a good fire chief question.

I believe every commercial building within the city is required to have one. It's a box on the building that has information, keys for everything, access to the entire building. And we would have a key on our truck to open that box to get keys to get where we need to go. Other than that, we're breaking doors.

When you have commercial buildings with alarm systems, that alarms might be going off in a particular zone or whatever, sometimes they're not going off because of a fire. They're going off because of something else. It's more beneficial to be able to enter the building with a key. You're as opposed to knock it down.

I would rather come in with a key than ruin a $2,000 door. Thank you. Anything else?

Anything else here? Thank you.

You're welcome.

Do you want to ask others to... Mr.

Chair, as I said, I shared this plan with the county planner, and he's here, and Conor LaBelle, and I'll ask him to come up and he can share his comments. He had a significant concern about the roadway design that probably needs addressed. Please, come on up, sir.

Connor Lavelle, county planner, Athens County, 1 South Court Street, first floor. Welcome. For this, like the director mentioned, the roadway on the plans that we had, It slopes towards the center line, unlike about a 6.5% grade. And so there was a little bit of concern about how that can be navigated during a heavy rain event. I shared it with the county engineer, just had a preliminary discussion about it. And I think that that might be something that we just need to look at further about road design for the Donna Lane. So what I'm referring to is the public improvement of Donna Lane, which is a 24 foot asphalt, or will be asphalt, right now it's unimproved. But it's a publicly platted roadway right now. That was the roadway concern. Do you want me to address anything else?

Anything that you had on your list that you think the developer or the planning commission needs to hear? That was the significant question that I recall.

Something else that I would just bring to everyone's attention is maybe to not get too married to the lot lines as they're drawn right now. The plans don't show sanitary sewer connection for the existing duplex. The county does have sewer in that area, so we might have to figure out a way to connect that duplex to the new sanitary system maybe that's going in so it can get to that force main and go up. The county's rules are basically if you are having your sanitary system If there's an existing structure that can connect, it needs to connect. Likewise, that's showing a split. We're going to get into a little bit of county parcel splitting here, where we have to think about septic systems. Since that's going to be about a 0.68 acre split, That's going to leave some concerns for the Health Department as to whether or not that's going to be able to, if it has, depending on what kind of septic system it currently has, it needs to make sure that if it has a leach field system that it will have room for a backup leach field when that split occurs. If it's a direct discharge aerator, I don't think that they're going to, there'll be more concern about that. The lot lines may adjust with that in terms of making sure that it is going to stay on septic. There's a process to do that. It requires coordination with the county commission to be granted a variance to maintain and stay on your septic system. But that would only be if it's on a leach system. direct discharge aerator. I don't think a variance would be provided for that. That's something else to just think about because that's a tight lot line for that duplex that's on a septic system. Pat McGarry would be your best point of contact. He'd probably be good to loop in as we move forward. He's the health department environmental director. I think those are the big things. In terms of the planned unit development, I had put that note on the plans that I had sent to Director Pyle and Megan. Because in the county, we don't have any zoning out in the county, other than in Athens Township. I've got you back, Steve. But other than that, we don't have any zoning. And so we include planned unit development regulations in our subdivision regulations. So I was coming at it from the way that the county subdivision regs are written. If that doesn't apply to the city, please ignore it. Other than that, I'm happy to answer any questions about the notes that I provided or

Anybody here? A couple questions, Connor. The first one, when you looked at the reverse crown on that road, I didn't look super carefully about storm plans. Is there a, and I'll try to dig into it here to try to find a storm discharge if that's the intent, is to keep it a reverse crown. What did Jeff say, or what did the county engineer say? Did he say prefer to, because I'm assuming this is going to be a township road and everything's said and done to care for it. Whether or not it's a concave or convex road, they probably want to have a... statement on that, especially if the storm discharge goes into a private system. Right.

There's a storm sewer at the end of the... It's not directly at the end of the... But that road will slope towards the parking lot, and there's a storm sewer there, there's a storm grate there. So I mean, there's a chance that that water could run off and then go into that at the base. But I think that we would need to have much deeper discussion with Jeff and his office, because I think his initial feeling was the reverse crown of the road was a concern. It's going to be public, sure. And township maintenance of it.

Could we have the engineer come up and tell us what his intent was? Did you do the design work on the reverses?

Yeah, so what's your... Yeah, again, Garis Berger with McCarty. Yeah, so for the intent on the road, and again, we're open to anything. So all of the comments that have been made so far from the fire and from the county were amenable to, you know, address those and get them worked out. Specifically, the road on the reverse crown, we were just trying to make sure that the water from that road wasn't going to go off into any neighbor's property and then also collect it into our stormwater system in order to maintain in order to control that stormwater management in our basin rather than having to try and figure out some other way because there is no stormwater facilities on Avenel that we could tie into for that Donna Lane and it all slopes down towards our property. The easiest way is to just take it into our basin. The easiest way to do that is to just inverse the crown, run it down the center of our drive and then to our cash basins. That is our current plan. We need to. We can do a normal crown and then provide curb and gutter, potentially, depending on how grading works out, and then provide curb inlets there and then also tie them into our stormwater detention system. There is no way that we can get a ditch system to work if that would be the way that they would want to go. It's just 60 foot right of way is not able to work with a ditch system. And as we have it right now, we are very tight within that right-of-way just with a 24-foot road. So, again, we're amenable to however the county would want to handle that.

I just was curious about what your thinking was. I think this is something that needs to be worked. Don't leave yet. This is something that needs to be worked out with the county engineer and make sure that it makes a lot of sense for our community. I wanted to ask, you mentioned that you identified the number of parking spaces on the site. What drove that? You said some kind of code issue because there's obviously no zoning. Like in the city, I know that we have a certain number of parking spaces based on a number of different things. How did you arrive at the number that you needed there?

Right. So if you look at county regulations for subdivision, which, again, it kind of doesn't necessarily apply, but it is county parcel, that requires two parking spaces per dwelling unit. We have 60. 60 times 2 is 120. The city zoning code requires two parking spaces. I know it doesn't apply, but we're looking for that standard so that way we're not just making a number out of thin air. And it's pretty standard. It's two parking spaces per dwelling unit. So that's just what we're going with, and that's where that came from. Okay.

It seems interesting to me that there were maybe a half a dozen spaces in front of the duplexes that, you know, that you had to extend them out there. I don't know if that... But anyway, I just was curious.

It may end up that we have a little bit less burning spaces depending on how the fire department comments go and how we address those and depending on how we adjust the...

And is there any intention, does the developer own the duplex that Donna Lane is running across? Is that true? And is there an intention on tying that into the sanitary system?

So you're talking about that existing house there? It is a duplex. As of right now, we are just leaving it as its normal leach field that it is going into. We do have an alternative, and we have already looked into tying it into our sanitary system. As long as the county has enough taps, I think we are easily able to tie that into our system, and we can easily update that on the plans.

Okay. It seems to make sense if we've got sewer in the area and it ought to all tie in and get off the leach fields. That allows you to keep the footprint or the lot size smaller and everything. And take the maintenance off the- Okay, thank you.

I had a question on that D-Plex specifically. Is the intention, and maybe this is not a question for you, maybe it's for the developers, the intention to manage- leasing that along with the rest of the management of the site? Because we talked about a maintenance building and a community building and everything. Or is it going to be leased separately and owned separately? And how is that going to work?

Well, since we're going through this subdivision process and we can subdivide out that lot, that property is owned by Capstone Management. They would be separately managed and owned by Capstone, not part of this project.

There's an easement across the front. I think I see where that is. Across the front of this parcel in order to access it.

The easement... There's an easement adjacent across the parcel for Forest Main. Our intent is to extend the driveway of Donnelly up slightly in order to get that access.

I'm just looking at that, and I look at where the driveway is versus where the frontage would be. And, you know, obviously the frontage would... As long as there's some sort of frontage, it can work, but the current driveway doesn't line up with where the proposed frontage is. Are you intending to move the driveway on that or grant an easement to get to the existing driveway or just let them cross the development's property? There needs to be some sort if that's going to be the way that they access it.

We'll just adjust the driveway to go to the right-of-way and then it just avoids an easement.

I see.

We're going to avoid an access easement. We'll avoid it.

Yeah, get a frontage on that. Okay, understood. Mr. Lavelle, do you have anything else to add?

If there are other questions for the notes that I provided, I'm happy to answer them. I can try to speed through them real quick.

I think your comment about the retaining wall needing some protection makes a lot of sense to me. The six-foot-high retaining wall there that... If you have families and children there that could step off that wall or get pushed off the wall.

The fire department's concerned in the back of that building also. Yeah, okay.

I just got up here just in case. Okay. I would say, speaking of the easement that Mr. Stone mentioned, that's the easement for the force main. Since it's going to cut through and ultimately there's going to be two different property owners. the property owner for the development and the property owner for the existing duplex to have fairly explicit language just about agreeing to the placement of that easement so that if in 50 years different people own it, it's still clear about whose responsibility it is and what service it's providing and where it is. Thanks. Thank you.

Sir, I believe that's all the comments that we have.

I guess I was going to ask if the township trustee had an interest in making any comments or statements at this point you don't have to I'm just asking okay

Since I got a chance, I'll go ahead. Steve Pearson, Athens Township Trustee, Trustee Representative to the Regional Planning Commission, 30-year member, former Director of Code Enforcement, City of Athens Community Development and Code Enforcement, former Director of Code Enforcement and Assistant. Let's see, what is it in Nelsonville? City Manager, Assistant City Manager. Townships are creatures of statute. We don't have home rule. We kind of inherit everything that we're given, including primarily the roads. We maintain 52 miles of roads right now. We don't have any inverted. I'm not sure how you... I suppose we just plow snow in and plow snow out. One of the concerns for us doing that too is the same as a fire truck. We plow snow, where does it go? How do we get turned around to get out? But again, it'll be whatever is reviewed and approved through this process. It's kind of... A lot of things like Tom said aren't real clear. Is it a city acceptance of the road? and then it's given over to the township or the county commissioners also have to approve it which is the normal process. Commissioners look at it. What's good too is there's a leaning on Jeff Maiden, the county engineer by both the city and the county. I'll be in contact with Jeff and Connor about that too. We have a lot of 50-foot right-of-ways where we maintain a ditch drainage along our road. Of the 52 miles of road that we have, we only have storm sewer on 2 Elm Street and in the process of getting it on Johnson Road through a grant project we're doing right now. 682 through the Plains of State Highway. We also have Connaught Road, excuse me, the short road that goes from Lee Master to 682, where the 911 call center is at. There is zoning in part of Athens Township, but not in this portion. Athens Township is the only township in southeast Ohio, the biggest part of southeast Ohio, that even has partial zoning. Um, so there's a lot of question too about what does apply there. My comment would be, my experience would be that the subdivision regulations are going to rule. As Tom said, there are bulk controls almost like zoning, um, in the subdivision regs. Um, chief Phelps has been coming to some of our township meetings and I'm really glad to hear that there's close contact on that. Um, Same thing with turning radiuses. Again, he's been working closely with Chief Reimer. I think that's great because ORC 711-09, the three-mile planning statute, almost has an assumption in it that annexation is imminent. That's why the state has allowed the city to go out in that radius. If you think of the Columbus area where there's competition, for annexation, who's got authority. There's even some levels of who gets to review things in metropolitan areas. I would almost ask the planning commissioners here that assume this might be part of the city eventually. That's the intent of 7-1109. That's all I can think of right now. Any questions? I'd be glad to answer.

Everyone. Okay. Hey, Steve. Yeah. On Avenel specifically, not on Donna. Okay. The section that goes up from Hoover, I think some of the concern that we've heard has been on the steepness of that. There is space to improve that. If the township were to seek improvement for a portion of it, would that benefit that concern, I guess, getting in and out of just the wider subdivision?

Are you talking about down at the intersection?

Yes.

I was just telling Connor, if you look at the original plat, that's called Valley View Estates or Valley View Subdivision. The original plat was amended to address that intersection. It was even worse to begin with the original design. The redesign is kind of funky too. If you've been down there, it's kind of hard to see back up the road. The road is steep, but again, that was reviewed by the city back when the subdivision was approved originally. We have some concerns even about snow removal, for example, which lends its way into emergency services and public transportation, let alone the people that live in that neighborhood. They could probably tell you more. Well, when we plow snow, somebody's got to be first and somebody's got to be last. So, you know, we have to. That's just the way it is. My guess, without consulting Jeremy Markham, my road supervisor, I'd say that's not high on our priority list to get there. That's not a high priority section. Maybe getting to Richland. Hooper Road is a township road. When we're plowing snow, we want to get to the fire department. Probably that's a higher priority, but going up into a subdivision, not necessarily. I'm going to get far afield. I don't want to go into public transportation right now. Just roadways is all the township is really involved in. Yeah, so it would be nice. That's another thing, too. Townships can't ask for traffic impact studies. We went through that process with Cornerstone and Eclipse Run and the lofts on these first two big apartment complexes that are under construction on the plains right now. That's not in our jurisdiction as a township to be able to do that, nor can we. We don't legislate, so we can't legislate, for example, impact fees, which would be something that would help contribute maybe to the rework of that intersection because you're coming down a really steep hill right there, and it's not a 90-degree intersection by any means.

Thank you.

Yeah, it's kind of unusual, too. I'm used to being on the other side, the city side. You know, where you can just, when you have home rule, there's a lot of things you can do. There are only about 30 townships in Ohio out of 1,308 that have home rule, so that's why we're controlled by the legislature. Thank you. And the legislature is 7-1109.

Thanks. So before I... Invite the public to speak. Does anybody have any questions that they would like to ask any of the professionals that have spoken thus far before I do that? Do you have? Okay.

Just in the broadest sense, and this comes from previous discussions with the city, and so It may not have initial impact that it requires a variance, but I guess it would be as a planner. So we've heard public transportation kind of, well, we won't talk about that right now, so it's kind of skirted. But that is an issue for people trying to, if it's affordable housing, how do we provide access for them to be able to get to the store or the doctor's appointment?

Well, I mean, I'd like to, that's one of the questions I do have. As much as public transportation, but even more so, or equally so, School buses and things be you know, I mean we've got three bedroom units and things and we're gonna you know and I appreciate the comments by the fire chief because I I feel like those a lot of those comments also address the needs for Being able to get school buses up there and turned around and head back down the hill to wherever they're going So a lot, but I think that's an important piece of this Being able to accommodate trans public transportation

Two other things then would be hillside runoff, which the city did work for a number of years on, and once again, it may not specifically govern on this one, but just the general runoff and how it's going to be controlled. And I hear that, you know, that still might be an issue if we've got the inverted crowns on the roadways. And then the other thing is the safety of the intersection. As we have cars, you know, exiting and, you know, onto Route 50, and if... there's a way to work with ODOT or the county engineer about ways to... if there are any thoughts for improving that intersection.

I'll answer your last question first. I don't know of any current plans to improve that intersection with ODOT, but I know that ODOT is looking at that section of road up closer to Blackburn to modify the traffic flow there related to safety concerns. I don't know, let's see, your runoff question was the second one. I believe our existing subdivision regulations and engineering requirements would cover those concerns. I don't see anything immediately problematic with the site design. And then related to access to public transportation, I think that the concerns with having access to those services are very important to consider. What's tricky with this application is that it is within the three mile radius, not within our city limits. And so the planning commission is reviewing this major subdivision per a different set of rules because it's outside of city limits. I think an option there would be to request a traffic study, but I'm not sure, based on the subdivision regulations, whether or not public transportation can be a specific reason or ruling for or against the application. Does that make sense? Thank you.

I have to go back and look at our code. I think Title 41 as a trigger for a traffic study when there's greater than 5,000 trips a day that are anticipated through the generation. I don't know that that's the case in this particular thing. I'd have to look at 21 and find out if there's a trigger for a traffic study.

Currently, there's a mandate for anything that's within 300 to 500 feet of center line of a major highway, but that would not apply here.

Thank you, so if there's anybody in the audience who would like to speak Please come to the podium state your name in your address. I would also Like to ask you to keep your comments to a minimal amount. I guess I think our regulations permit approximately five minutes to speak and so And I'd also, you know, if somebody's already spoken about a particular issue, maybe focus on new things would be helpful, I guess. So if somebody would like, anybody would like to speak, please come to the podium.

Hello. My name's Robin Todd Hunter, and I came to Athens County and I made my home here in 1980. I currently live at 6250 Shelly Drive in Valley View Estates adjacent to the planned apartment complex. I speak on behalf of myself and the broader community of residents in the three mile extraterritorial jurisdiction around the city. I'm submitting a petition signed by the residents who live here and other supporters to the commission and I want to be clear, we are not opposed to affordable housing. What we call for is the proper legal process to be followed for the proposed Avenal Crossing development under Ohio Revised Code 711.09. That no plat may be recorded without the approval of the City of Athens Planning Commission. The first of our concerns is the safety of using Avenel Drive as the sole ingress and egress from the complex, as well as the Valley View Estate subdivision where we live. The driveway to the complex, Dona Lane, which has been discussed, is an unimproved township right of way. The developers have addressed this. in the plan that's been presented. But they have named the project Avenel Crossing, demonstrating that they're fully aware that Avenel is the intended access corridor. Based on standard traffic engineering estimates using the Institute of Transportation engineering trip generation manual required under Ohio standards, a 60 unit apartment complex generates in excess of 400 vehicle trips per day. well over the 100 trips, which is the Ohio threshold, triggering a mandatory traffic impact study. Avenel Drive was chip and seal gravel for 53 years until the new sewer lines were installed a couple of years ago. It was never engineered to carry the traffic load of a 60-unit apartment complex occupied or under construction. Because these are township roads, it is the responsibility of the Athens Planning Commission to enforce a professional traffic impact study. Dona Lane is addressed in the plan, but Avenel is only showed in the technical drawings as a platted road. It does not show that it's a steep 20 degree grade narrow blind curve without any lighting or sidewalks, which intersects with Hooper Road at a 45 angle feeding in towards State Road 50. Every school morning, the children of Valley View Estates walk down Avenel to catch the school bus at the bottom of the hill. The district does not send buses up the hill or any other street that feeds into Hooper Road. It never has. That's not a complaint. It is an institutional determination that the road is unsuitable for bus service. In winter, when it's dark at 7 AM, sometimes parents drive their kids to the bottom. That creates a congested dangerous turnaround on Hooper, that is today, before a single unit has been built. A 60 unit Lydic development will conservatively add 30 to 60 school aged children to this road. This housing will serve low income families who may or may not have reliable vehicles. Those children will walk. They'll go down the same steep, dark, unimproved road that the school district has already deemed unsafe for their buses. Please condition any approval on a professional traffic and pedestrian impact study of Avenel Drive from Dona Lane to and beyond Hooper Road, including lighting, grade, width, sight lines, and the 45 degree intersection geometry. The school bus doesn't go up the hill because it isn't safe. 60 more units of residence is not going to make it any safer. Our ask of the commission is to enforce the subdivision regulations of the Ohio Revised Code and my neighbors will speak to the reasons why this is really important to our community. Thank you.

Thank you. Question? Yes. For the developer. I have a question for the developer based on my comments. Have you spoken with the Athens City School District about access?

We have not.

Do you intend to?

Good afternoon, my name is Christine Snoddy and I own 6245 Avenel Drive with my husband Daniel in Valley View Estates. Donna Lane abuts the length of our property and Avenel Crossing Apartments will abut the back of our property. This project is funded by the low-income housing tax credit program made of federal and state tax dollars specifically designated to house low-income families and individuals. That mission is very important in Athens County and we want it to succeed. But an LIHTC development only serves its residents if those residents can actually access the services they need to live. If a resident of this development does not own a car, the nearest walkable destination is a Dollar General store. It's approximately a 20-minute walk down a steep, unlit hill with no sidewalks, ending with a crossing of US Route 50, a four-lane divided highway. There is a bus stop near that Dollar General store, but that is the extent of the pedestrian accessible services from this site. The nearest full-service grocery store, pharmacy, and medical clinic are about four miles away. For residents who need the services that low-income housing specifically exists to support, the accessibility is worse. Athens County Job and Family Services, the agency that manages benefits, food assistance, housing assistance, and employment services for low-income residents operates out of multiple offices. Their case worker service office is in Nelsonville, and the administrative office is in Chansey. Then the Social Security Administration offices is on the far east side of Athens, which is approximately six miles away from Avenel Crossing. And these are not optional destinations for the residents. They are the offices on which they will depend. They are spread across three different towns and our site, this site, is far away from all of them with no reliable way to reach any of them without a car. The revised plan that's been put before this commission does not address public transportation access. It does not address pedestrian infrastructure on Avenel Drive or Hooper Road. which is at the bottom of our hill. It does not address crossing a four-lane highway of Route 50 that stands between these residents and the only bus stop within walking distance. The Commission has an opportunity to ask the developer a straightforward question. How do the residents of Avenel Crossing get to the grocery store, to job and family services, to their doctor, without a car? If that question does not have a satisfactory answer, this plan is not ready for approval. not because we oppose affordable housing, but because affordable housing that isolates its residents is not serving them, it is warehousing them. I invite you, the members of the Commission, to take a field trip, visit Valley View Estates, drive up Avenel Drive, and see the steep blind curve for yourselves. Then imagine it on an icy, snowy day, when you aren't sure if your vehicle will stop at the bottom of the hill or that your spinning wheels will make it up the hill. Thank you.

Good afternoon. My name is Annalisa De La Cruz. I live at 6211 Shelley Drive in the Valley View Estates. I've been a member of this community for five years. I'm here today because what happens in this room matters, not just for us in Valley View Estates, but for every resident of unincorporated Athens County who depend on this commission to uphold the law. You have heard today about subdivision regulations, platting processes, traffic studies, road burdens. All of these arguments are grounded in law, and they're all valid. But I want to speak to you for a moment about what this really means to the people who live here and who may live here in the future. Valley View Estates has been a community since 1970. Our neighbors have raised families here, maintained their properties, and pay their taxes. We have limited zoning protection. We have no vote in city elections. We have no recourse if this commission does not enforce the law on our behalf. This hearing is our opportunity to be heard. The community petition that Robin submitted today represents residents from across unincorporated Athens County Valley View Estates and beyond who are asking for one thing, for the law to be followed. Not that this development be treated differently than any other, not that affordable housing be blocked, simply that the process required by Ohio law be completed fully with proper public notice and a genuine opportunity for the community to participate. The Athens Township Trustees are with us. The Athens County Planner has already confirmed the law requires this review. Two other public officials have said the same thing. The only question remains is whether this commission will enforce what the law requires. So we are asking this commission to enforce the subdivision regulations of Ohio Revised Code, Chapter 711. Require a full subdivision review of Avenel Crossing. Hold a proper public hearing with written notice to all affected residents. Require a traffic impact study and developer funded road improvements. And do not approve any plat until every step required by law has been completed. We trust this commission to do the right thing We will be watching and we will be grateful. Thank you.

Hello. My name is David Rage. I'm also a resident at 6351 Avenel. I'm sorry if I'm not very well eloquently prepared. I only found out about this development yesterday afternoon. Having not received any notice, I don't know if it's required or not. Valley View Estates currently consists of 34 lots. Of those 34 lots, there are 27 homes in that division, including a relatively new installation from Capstone adjacent to Donna Lane. 27 homes, that's the current number of vehicles, assuming one to one and There's maybe 30 to 45 cars in the entire neighborhood. Probably about the same number of people, give or take their children. From what I've read since yesterday, and it's been confirmed, the new development that's planned is 60 units, 111 bedrooms, 120 parking spaces. Going along the same lines as what I've seen and read, we're looking at possibly at least 90 cars minimum. If two cars per unit is assumed, then all 120 spaces will be filled. Avenel simply does not have the capacity for that kind of vehicular traffic. It's extremely steep, as my neighbors have mentioned. There's some areas, especially on one of the blind curves at the bottom where it comes close to, it's actually below 20 feet wide, the pavement is. Cars regularly during winter and occasionally outside of winter in foul weather will fall into the ditch on the inside of the curve. It happens, they slide into it during winter, they slide into it during foul weather. 111 bedrooms. I made brief calculations on my own assuming a couple as a parent for every unit. plus one child per bedroom. That would mean 171 individuals, a minimum of 171 individuals will be living in that complex. If they're not driving, they're going to be walking. There are no sidewalks along Hooper Road or Avenel Drive. That blind turn On Avenel, there's also a moderately blind turn on Hooper, fairly close to the volunteer fire department location. Two cars already have problems crossing each other at all of those locations. If there's a pedestrian in that area, hate to think of it but somebody is going to be hurt whether it's a driver or drivers or a pedestrian those two roads are dangerous for pedestrians as a general rule pedestrians as a usually walk against the flow of traffic a two-ton car does a lot of damage if the driver isn't careful see basically there is no sidewalk continuity that's what I mentioned HapCap according to what I've read on a couple of articles online has no it appears to have no intention to add a bus to that it to that area Athens City Transit does not serve the Valley View area which again will mean how do the residents get to wherever they need to go for this new development thinking of them. I wasn't even thinking about low-income housing. It wouldn't matter if it was just regular people. The capacity for Avenel Drive is simply not there for that vehicle. There's even one location from when they just installed the sewer system in the last couple of years that at one of the manhole covers, either the ground wasn't properly compacted or not, it's actually sinking. It's collapsing at that location. I hesitate to think what 60 additional units worth of cars will do at that location Much and no difference to any construction company what their vehicles are going to do to that area going up and down that road Because Avenel simply wasn't properly put back together after the sewer system was put in That's all I can really mention at this time. Thank you.

Thank you Anybody else

Yes, sure. For my work, I examine plat maps for Duke Energy. I do remote work for Duke Energy, for Duke Energy Florida specifically. Beyond the concerns of the vehicular and pedestrian traffic, I have additional concerns that it appears from the site plans I saw online, which are limited, granted they're not like a regular plat map, that there may be intention to expand this development in the future. From the looks of the ends of the roads coming on the northwest and southwest corners where the roads come in at those locations, there doesn't seem to be any sidewalks going around them, which to me, as a layman, would indicate that there are plans to perhaps an additional phase or two down the road, which will increase the pedestrian traffic and increase vehicular traffic even beyond what's currently being considered. I don't have definitive information to any additional phase, so this is pure conjecture. But should that ever happen, the problems we face today with an additional development there will be multiplied by unknown factors.

Sorry. Thank you. Anybody else? Mr. Ziff, would you like to say anything about how HADCAP has looked at this situation?

In case somebody has any questions. Hi, I'm Ben Ziff. I'm the Mobility Coordinator for Athens and Hawking Counties with HapCap. We administer several different transportation programs including Athens Public Transit and Athens On Demand Transit. We don't currently have any plans based on the road conditions, the existing conditions of Avenel and Hooper to establish a fixed route bus service going to this location. I do want to say I appreciate being given a copy of the early design plans and being able to have a little bit of input on that. Sort of similar concerns that the fire department has with turning radius, being able to actually navigate safely in and out of the parking lot. I'm all for affordable housing, so I'll take it wherever I can get it. If this complex does come to pass and then down the road we are able to have improvements to Avenue and Hooper, I would love to be able to have that service provided for them. I will say there is the option of Athens on-demand transit. Those are accessible minivans, so while our fixed bus route system might not be able to get there, our on-demand service would be able to, because they're just minivans. They fit in those roads pretty well.

If anybody has any questions, I'm more than happy to... Can you talk specifically about the Albany route and frequency right now? And if you were to add a stop, what would that do to the Albany route? And where would you add that stop based on current conditions?

On current conditions? I mean... I really don't know where we would add a stop over in that area. I guess we could potentially try and look at something like the fire department, because it has a large parking area where we could actually get a vehicle in. The timing for that route is bi-hourly. We only have the budget right now to have, instead of one bus going for Albany, one bus for Nelsonville. Line sevens have been combined, so we have one bus on the odd hours that does Albany. because we think Albany's weird. It just happened to end up that way. Nelsonville gets the even hours. It is a little bit of a tight timeline. There's not a lot of wiggle room in that Albany line, especially. There's a little bit in Nelsonville, but the Albany route is pretty close to an hour. So adding that three to five minute detour would be probably not something we could do at this point. Down the road, we're looking at some potential service changes for how we service Albany with fixed route public transit, but we're not at the point where we can make that kind of change yet. You're currently able to drop off across 50 from there? Yes. Across the street, we pull into where the Dollar General is. People can board there, disembark, whatever they want. That's outbound only? Outbound only, yes. Yeah, whenever we're able to avoid going left-hand across the highway, we do. We do have one spot where we do that, which is going up to the Andover Apartments. Personally, I don't really like that whole setup. It's very, very challenging to navigate. The roads are narrow. We have to do a three-point turn to get the bus out, which we never like to do. Anytime you have to put a vehicle in reverse, it's always riskier. That being said, it's better than the Walmart parking lot, so at least there's that.

Please come up to the microphone so that we have it recorded. Thank you.

Okay.

So as far as using our parking lot as a place, I'm okay with that. Just keep in mind we're in the process of expanding our building, and our parking lot size is going to shrink tremendously. So that might not be an option.

Very hypothetical. Right. Capital H, right?

Thank you. Okay. Well, this is a communication today. I think if the developer and the code office can get together and resolve things, we may look at voting on this in two weeks, which I think is around July 1st or something. There would be our next scheduled meeting. And so we'll see where that goes at this point in time. It will be up to the developer and the leadership of the code office and the planning office to be able to bring this project forward for us. Okay. I do have one other thing. Okay.

So again, Ralph Phelps, Chief Regional Area Fire. So the water source up there is going to be LEAC's water. I'm not exactly sure how familiar these guys are with LEAC's. LEAC's will not guarantee fire suppression water. We run into this issue multiple times a year when we're doing hydrant testing on our own. They have several broken hydrants at this time. Are the hydrants in the subdivision going to be subdivision-owned or LEAC's property?

The water on the property would be privately maintained.

Okay. Because LEACs will always tell us they only provide public drinking water and not fire suppression water. So I don't know if that has any effect on how the sprinkler system will be supplied. That may be something between you guys and LEACs.

I can speak to that.

Okay. Sure.

I'm just going to park here for a second. We did have that concern way back at the conceptual phases of this development. We have been in contact with LEACS and we have done a water capacity study. Hence, the entire reason that we are connecting down to the water main at Hooper because the Hooper water main is eight-inch. The water main up Avenel is only a two-inch to feed those residential uses, so it cannot provide fire flow. We are going to extend an eight-inch water main from Hooper up to our development in order to provide that fire flow. We have done a fire water demand study in order to ensure that those fire flows could be provided because it is a considerable raise in elevation from Hooper to our development. relates to a drop in pressure, but we have confirmed that fire flow would be able to be provided with our water main extension.

Thank you. Along those lines, just a quick question related to the water main extension. Did you work out with LEAC's jumping over existing services onto the new 8-inch and then tying in the 2-inch or killing the section of 2-inch that's going up the hill? How exactly did you work that out?

Currently, the plan is still just to take our water main underneath all of the existing or over depending on what the depth ends up being underneath those existing water service. There is no impact to that two-inch and the two-inch remain in place. Then up at our development or we go off 90 towards our development, they can tee into our 8-inch with that 2-inch main and provide a loop in that corridor. Currently, the 2-inch is going to reign in place, and then the 8-inch will serve our development and then also have a tee for that 2-inch.

LAC was okay with having two mains in the same row? Yes. Okay.

Well, again, thank you very much for your participation. I'll continue on with our agenda. If there are people that want to stay, they're welcome to stay or leave if they choose to leave. But the next item on the agenda are reports, and so I'll look to Ms. Jennings. Do you have a report for us today?

Still working on comprehensive plan stuff. I'll be sending out social media posts this afternoon. So we'll be launching that today and continuing it through next year. In regards to the ADA transition plan, have been working with Sunday Creek Horizons on that plan as well. They're doing building assessments this summer. And then we'll be doing the sidewalk inventory in the fall. And then related to the Welcome Home Ohio project, we have met with the developer and are going to be moving forward on a formal major subdivision application. We're just finalizing some of the details on utility and engineering information.

So we have PUD, correct?

Yes. Sorry about that. Yes, we're going to be doing a planned unit development for that because it will require both a major subdivision and variances. So we'll just combine both of those processes into one through the PUD process.

It'll show up here? Yeah. Okay. Pretty soon that might be a... Potentially that could be the next meeting as well, correct? Yes. For the first hearing?

Potentially so. Okay. What was that address? It's the 93 Hudson property and the Red Cross property. On that, really quick, I'm so sorry. Okay. We'll also be scheduling a meeting with the neighborhood to learn about the project before it gets to Planning Commission. Then we'll also be scheduling a meeting with the developer and any potential or interested buyers to learn more about the program.

Nothing's been done on the site yet. I know there's soil stockpiled for that particular project.

Yes, that's correct. We took extra soil from our Kennedy Drive fire training facility and deposited there just behind the Red Cross property to use for fill since that property is in the floodplain. I lost my train of thought. I apologize.

Okay. I was just wondering if there had been any work done on the site.

The individual city departments have been going through the materials stored in the building, the existing structure at Hudson and clearing those materials out and also relocating anything that needs to continue to be stored to our new storage facility out on Kennedy Drive as well.

Thank you. Any questions of Megan? Okay, Mr. Pyle, do you have any report today?

Nothing particular to report, sir, but if you'd indulge me in 30 seconds to praise the staff at Code Enforcement. I've been there for three months, and I have to say, just like my experience with the police department, the staff at Code Office are top-notch people. Couldn't be more impressed, and I'm very happy to be working with them. So just a shout-out to them. Oh, great.

Thank you. Okay. Okay. The next item on the agenda would be an opportunity for any citizen to speak on any topic other than the topic with the communication we talked about today. Is there anybody who has anything that they'd like to add here? With that, are there any announcements? No announcements. No other business? Well, then I will accept a motion to adjourn.

So moved.

So moved. And is there a second? Second. Second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. Same sound for our same, for opposed? Okay, it's adjourned. We're adjourned. Thank you.