City Council - Regular Meeting

One minute. Good evening. We're going to call to order this uh regular session of the Tascadero City Council and we be will be we will begin as usual with the pledge of allegiance led this evening by myself. So, if you are able, please stand and join us in saluting our nation's flag. Right. Thank you. Uh, roll call, please.

Council member Funk here. Council member Nuome is absent. Council member Peak here. Mayor Promander here. Mayor Barbbo here. Okay. Four present, one absent.

All right. Thank you. Well, if you are attending in person or listening uh to the city council meeting this evening on one of our many avenues uh for doing so, welcome. We appreciate you uh listening in. Uh we are going to begin this evening with the consent calendar. The consent calendar consists of items that are considered routine and non-controversial by city staff. They will be acted upon in a single motion unless a member of the council wishes to to pull an item for separate consideration. Uh, so I will begin by asking if I have any questions or any council member wishing to pull an item. Okay, seeing none, we'll go out and see if there's any public items on the consent calendar. Okay, seeing none, I'll come back to council for a motion.

Move approval of the consent calendar. I'll second. Okay, we have a motion by council member Funk and a second by Mayor Promanderas. Roll call, please. Council member Funk, yes. Council member Peak, yes. Sorry. Uh, Mayor Proendere, yes. Mayor Burbo, yes. Motion passes. Okay. Thank you. With that, we will proceed on to updates from the city manager, Mr. Lewis.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor and members of council. Good evening. And we're almost into May. Hard to believe. Uh, first wanted to share about the Battle of the Badges blood drive. So, please join our police department for a blood drive. We want to make sure we contribute the most blood uh of all the cities. This is April 30th from 11 till 4:30. So it's this week, April 30th from 11 to 4:30. We can donate at the Colony Park Community Center locally. And uh this is our annual blood drive. And we're battling to see who can uh raise the most blood to save lives. And so I will be there. I hope to see many of you there this Thursday, April 30th. May means it's Tamalei Festival. So here we go. May 1st and May 2nd. This is one of our most large events downtown. It starts Friday, May 1st at 5:00 pm with Fiesta Friday. We have live music uh performed and Tamalei vendors will be open for a sneak peek and the sneak peek is really important because most of these uh will be gone early on Saturday. So the sneak peek is a good opportunity to try everything and you want to make sure you do that. And then on Saturday, May 2nd from 11 till 7:00, we'll have a hundred vendors on display uh with a number of tamales, food, beverages, contests, everything else you need. And most important, the Central Coast Zoo Foundation is hosting the adult beverages for purchase in the Sunken Gardens with wine, beer, coffee, and cider. The event is free and all of the proceeds from the beverages will go to the Central Coast Zoo. So, we're very grateful for that. Arriving soon. So, arriving sooner than that new 2026 Pierce Enforcer. Look at that beautiful fire engine. That is a thank you to the city council for your investment in public safety. You continue to do this and that is going to be a beautiful engine that will serve us for years with the Greyhound gray. So, that's a very unique uh color pattern that will really identify our engines. And uh but before that arrives on likely Monday or Tuesday, so we're looking forward to that. Um what arrived today

is our firefighters moved into their home uh at station two. So the uh temporary home is active. I paid them a visit and offered them a housewarming present and they'll be living there for a little while. So we've broken ground on station two. We'll celebrate that next week. You'll be hearing dates shortly. Uh and so we're really excited. That's a big moment. This is the first major step in our safety facilities construction project which was a D20 goal. and you've kept uh the word of the community and so good job council. We're we're rolling and we'll show you that next week. But yeah, this was brought back from Appleton, Wisconsin. Uh the final inspection was completed and uh the engine is a beauty. So look forward to you seeing that. It's being driven up from Ontario, California this weekend. So there you go. Uh next we have our lemur habitat grand opening. Look at that fun little lemur right there. Don't get too close. Uh the Central Co Zoo is thrilled to invite you to experience our newly renovated lemur habitat on May 15th. And so this continues to be part of our Madagascar biodiversity hotspot and doors open at 10:00. General admission is required and but the event of the grand opening is free. And continuing to celebrate the Central Co Zoo, the 23rd annual ice cream zufari. Tickets are on sale now. This is Saturday, June 6th from 5 to 8. All you can eat ice cream and sundaes and toppings. You cannot beat that on a warm June day. So, all you can eat ice cream tickets include full zoo admission and unlimited sweet treats. So, there you go. And I always enjoy that this is sponsored by Pure Dentistry. So, this is good for their business. Oh, the ice cream zufari. So, we appreciate that. In the memorial day, we'll be having our wonderful Memorial Day ceremony hosted by the Atascad Veterans Memorial Foundation. We're so grateful for their service to our community at 11:00 a.m. at the Faces of Freedom Memorial. Very meaningful event to honor those who made the ultimate sacrifice and I think our celebration is very honoring and very well attended. And the Kuanas Club of Atascadero just a

terrific service club will be having a barbecue following the ceremony. Finally, I wanted to share this is Crystal Horn. She's the administrative assistant in community development. She serves as the planning commission clerk and uh our assistant city manager and clerk Laura Christensen and Alyssa Slater are at the annual city clerks association meeting starting today. So we thank you for stepping in and I know you'll do a very great job. You have any questions? Please let me know. Thanks.

Uh thank you Mr. Lewis. Um yeah and I would comment I know you're giving blood on Thursday morning and I'm giving blood Thursday afternoon. Encourage anybody else interested. This is a great opportunity and it's convenient and local at the community center. So please consider signing up. you go to Vital Talent and you can do it or you can or you can be old like me and call them and make an appointment. Um, also Mr. Loose, today we were going to a while back we had today we were going to do the ribbon cutting for the uh monarch and pollinator exhibit, but that has been rescheduled and I'd like you to tell everybody what date it's been rescheduled to. June 9th and we're giving the plants a little more chance to to grow and and take get strength and so we also have a little more fencing to put in. But June 9th, look forward to that.

Okay, thank you. Does any other member of the council have any questions for the city manager? Okay, seeing none, we're going to move on to our next item on the agenda, which is community forum. And community forum is that is this portion of the meeting which is reserved for people wishing to address the council on items that are not on the agenda. The uh Brown Act prohibits the council from going into discussion on items that were not on that are not on the published agenda. Therefore, if uh you do speak on something, we will not be able to um do anything more than maybe answer a brief question or ask staff to answer a question or ask staff to get to together with you at another time. But we do, of course, listen and pay attention to what's said in community forum. So, with that, I'd like to open it up for any member of the public wishing to speak. You have three minutes. We'd ask you please go ahead and line up so we don't have to wait to cross the room. And we ask that you state your name for the record. So, first speaker, please. Thank you. Good evening, Mayor Borau and council me council members. My name is Jennifer Adams. I'm the CEO of Lumina Alliance. Um I'm here uh representing Luminina Alliance whose mission, our mission is to empower those who've been impacted by sexual assault or intimate partner violence through advocacy, healing, and prevention programs. Our agency, though we've changed names uh several times over the years, has been supporting survivors for 50 years. This year is actually 50th anniversary of our um 24-hour crisis hotline uh with confidential and nocost services um such as our 24-hour crisis and information line. We provide self-sufficiency services, emergency shelters, one of which is here in Atascadero, transitional housing, individual and group therapy, and a robust prevention program. Last year, we saw a 30% increase in our

hotline calls. That's a dramatic increase from over the year before. And recent CDC statistics recognize that more than 45% of women have experienced sexual violence here in the United States, which accounts for in St. Louis Abyispo County, 63,000 women. This year during sexual assault awareness month, which is April, we look to shine a light on those groups whose survivorship often goes unagnowledged. While we recognize that sexual assault can be experienced by anyone, certain groups, such as undocumented individuals, transgender folks, and those living with disabilities, are uniquely vulnerable. Despite this, these groups are often the least likely to have access to services, and the violence they experience is often in the shadows. This April, we're committed to illuminating the path towards a brighter future for all survivors. Please remember if you or anyone you know is experiencing sexual or intimate partner violence and needs help to please call our 24-hour crisis hotline at 8055458888 for help. Now, on a little positive note, uh I would be remiss if I didn't mention that our signature gayla, Luminina Nights, which features Dancing with Our Stars, which was born right here in Atascadero and was responsible for getting that beautiful library finished. Um we are celebrating this Friday and Saturday. So, you can go have a tamalei, just have one, and then you can come to the event. Um we are uh we're going to be having this event at the new Venina Robels tasting room up in Paso. Um if it is uh the event has sold out, but you can still support uh any one of our your

favorite slow liberty star dancers by going to lumininaights.org. We have three North County dancers this year. Joel Peterson with Wine Country Alliance, Chris Beal with Pasroal City Council, and Bruce Gibson, our District 2 County Supervisor, and of course, we have our forever star dancer, Heather Moreno, who will be dancing with the um alumni that she danced with last year. So, she'll be opening it up. Okay. I I'm sorry, Jenny, you're out of time. Oh, goodness. I'm so sorry. How did that go so fast? Thank you. I'm sorry. Thank you very much. I appreciate

Thank you. And thank you for what Lumen Alliance does for the community. I I wish we could say we lived in in a society that didn't need your services, but we do. I like every society has this problem. And uh so we're glad you're here to provide services to folks in Atascadero especially. So thank you for what you do. Thanks for your attention. Thank you. Next speaker, please.

Good evening. My name is Eric Cleveland. I thought we were speaking single family resident zoning tonight and in case I'm not able to make it whenever it comes up. Uh I hope that the council will consider gross versus net when they determine sizes. I believe in public works may be able to give you guys more information. There was a subdivision put just south of our property on Atascadero Avenue and it's a 50 foot wide easement. That's the same as Atascadero Avenue. It serves six lots. uh it's larger easement than San Gabriel Road, San Diego Road and stuff. So, when you start doing that and you're going net, now you've positioned where the houses can go. And our property is unique in that there's five oak trees that are probably 200 years old. Uh single family dwellings, you're allowed to cut those down if you need to to build the house. I've spent a lot of money pruning them and getting them ready to go whenever we're able to start building homes. So, hopefully when that comes up, you guys will look at gross overnight. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Cleveland. And and yes, good good to come speak tonight if you're not going to be able to make it when that comes up. So,

yeah. Okay. Thank you. Uh, anybody else wishing to speak? Mr. Oslin. Good evening, council and staff. I have a few things um like answered. Is there fines involved if you violate a signed ordinance? Um, that's number one. Number two is, is there fines involved when you don't do what you're supposed to do on your property? For instance, when trucks are unloading at 6:00 in the morning, uh, still at our new supermarket, Home Depot has stopped their trucks, by the way, at 5:30 or 6:30 in the morning. They may be parked there. They're not idling, and they're not offloading those trucks before 7. So, they did get that message loud and clear, but there still is a problem uh with the neighborhood behind Valley Fresh, and it needs to be addressed. Please. Uh third, um I want to commend um Ellie downstairs. Uh she always gives the right answer or finds the right answer for anybody coming in and her service is awesome. Um, I will uh discuss somebody else that's giving wrong answers at another time. Um, and then I want to talk about our tree ordinance. And Mr. Bence was fantastic in answering questions, but 4 feet from the side of the road would be like this. And if you live on the west side, that's the area that we're not doing anything with the general plan update. Mr. Lewis, you used to live over there as well. um 4 feet off the side of the road, you should look at where the trunks of the trees are. There's no curb, there's no sidewalk, and they're right up against the pavement. So, that does not one size fit all for our city. Um the next problems that you have is if you have a tree and it's growing, and our council has discussed this before in parking

lots with putting retardants on and how you cut a tree. So we do have shade, but when a tree grows, they like to grow up and get to the sun. When PG& comes in, they like to cut it away from their power lines. So that puts natural growth going all different directions other than up, which puts it in the road. And it is a burden on our residents to have to continue to trim at 14 ft. We have not done this in years. We are doing it now because this is the direction either of our city manager or council of you folks that run the city. We need to be educating people a little bit better and we need to look at the west side in particular a little differently because otherwise what's going to happen is trees are magically going to get cut down in our wonderful city because it's very cost prohibited to have to get an encroachment permit, do oneel traffic control or close a road for a few minutes. So you can trim a tree because that's what you're having our residents do. PG& does it, but they're the culprit of most of the problems on the west side. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hosen. And um I you know, staff has made note of your questions and of course they do know how to get a hold of you. So I'm going to ask that Mr. Dunmore and perhaps Mr. Dar can reach out to you on those specific issues you raised. Okay. Thank you. Anybody else wishing to approach? Okay, seeing none, we will move on from community forum to our next item, which is G1, a management report regarding zoning code updates and believe this is going to be Mr. Dunmore, our community development director, will present this item. Thank you, mayor, and good evening, council. This is the fourth time that we've had a in-depth zoning discussion. So, I thank you for your patience as we go through all these details. Our intent really is to bring you a piece at a time so it's not too much too much complexity to digest. Tonight we're going to be talking about commercial land uses specifically and we're also going to touch on non-conforming uses in the downtown and some of our development standards and a little bit of the definitions we've been working on as well. Now I will mention that um we're going to have to bifurcate this discussion a little bit. We do have a conflict of interest from one of the council members. So, we'll break this up a little bit. I also wanted to mention that um there's a couple of potential breaks throughout this presentation where we can go out for public comment and I'll kind of leave that to the mayor and I'll suggest that that way we're not going back and forth this presentation since we've got to break off a piece at the end. I'll also mention that the presentation is not going to follow the staff report order a little bit because of that bifurcation. We're going to talk about the non-conforming uses first, which is really at the tail end of your staff report. So, I don't want to confuse you. I just want to give you some some info up front. But anyway, a little background about what we've done uh thus far. February 10th, we came with you uh for a general discussion about process and the overall order of the new zoning.

Uh then we came to you with a discussion, a good discussion on mixed use. And then we continued that discussion on March 24th and also talked about the land uses in those mixeduse districts which include the downtown and some of those other mixeduse districts that are basically zones within commercial zones. Tonight we're talking about just commercial uses and that involves three land use districts or place types. Um and we'll be talking about the zoning that will come out of those particular land use districts. Now, tonight I am joined by our planning manager, Kelly, to my right. I also have Genevieve Shar with MIG that'll be on the line and she'll give the basis of the discussion for you because she's really good at detailing these things out. Um, so let's start with a little background on the downtown. I mean, the downtown district, we've done a lot of work on it over the years, and it's really progressing nicely. Our downtown enhancement plan has really helped that. But it's an area that's really intended to support pedestrianoriented uses, active ground flooror uses that enhance economic vitality. It's really about the restaurants. It's the entertainment. It's having night life. And I will definitely say that all of our events such as what we're going to be seeing this weekend with Tamalei Fest have really enhanced the land uses themselves as well. But when we talk about the downtown and we try and guide zoning to the future, we're oftentimes trying to say what makes sense. You know, the offices do make sense. They're great downtown, but are what they want are are they what you want on the ground floor around the park? Maybe there's other uses that are uh more consistent with this purpose. So, we do have a few of these non-conforming land uses, the medical offices, the ground flooror residential, the gas station, storage and warehousing, and we do have an existing ordinance that has a limitation on their time. Um, when there's a vacancy, we

have a six-month sort of grace period, and then the code um basically says they must uh conform to the current land use. And so, right now, our zoning does say that groundf flooror offices, at least around Sunken Gardens Park, along El Camino, along Traffic Way, are not an allowed use. Instead, it's the restaurant, it's the retail. But those uses are allowed above the ground floor. So, I'm actually going to turn this over right now. I meant to do this earlier to our consultant, Genevie, before I go too far and give you too much information. Genevie, are you online with us tonight? I sure am.

Excellent. Wow, your voice sounds so crisp and clear. Thank you. Thanks, Phil. Um, so moving on. So the the the non-conforming uses, um, you know, something that was put in place and it was allowed when the when it was put in place. So the zoning code said it could be there, but no longer is it an allowed use in the zoning district. So on the ground floor in the in the downtown commercial, this is the the the medical offices and the and the ground floor residential gas station. So, um, thinking about that vision and how to best manifest that vision, um, we have a couple of ideas to prevent present for for council consideration. The first would be to kind of think about that grace period, that six-month grace period for those legal non-conforming uses um that are not, you know, the most desirable uses to be on the ground floor. So, currently that grace period is is a six-month time period. um we could think about reducing that to a shorter time period. Um you know maybe maybe it's three months, maybe it's um you know something that that just kind of helps inch towards that vision a little bit better. So when we say discontinuence we mean that the the there's it's been a vacant tenant space. Um the the business has ceased. Uh the the um the operational fixtures are gone. So it's that's been gone for that period of time. The second thing that is another option that that council could explore is is um requiring a change uh to conform with the zoning code right when a tenant or occupant turns over. So in this option basically the the grace period would go away um and the non-conforming use would really terminate when it becomes vacant um or it changes ownership or something like that there. this does become a little bit more kind of complicated um potentially um a little bit opening up a

little bit to to legal challenge just because there's not a lot of precedence of h of this being done. Um generally you do see a vacancy period uh to allow for that that grace period. So staff is really looking for counsel to to provide some direction on on any desired changes to those non-conforming land use standards um on the ground floor just here in the DC zoning district. This wouldn't be um we're not talking about any other non-conforming changes. It's really just focused right here in the downtown. And we will pause there for some questions and discussion on this item.

So, we're going to treat this like about three different presentations. And so, and I prefer that we do that given that this is the only item we have this evening. You know, we'll take the extra time to allow three opportunities of public comment as opposed to just treating it all as item G1. So with that, so we're no further presentation on the downtown non-conforming and we'll proceed to see if there's any council questions on this item. I'll start on my left. Council member Peak, what are the boundaries to the is it Lewis Avenue? So there's actually two different um sections in downtown. So south of

Okay, I'll just take I'll just ask my question. What about the houses on Lewis Avenue that are just standalone houses? Those are non-conforming. So they're they're non-conforming. So if there there's no tenant if if we do make a change tonight and there's no teny for 6 months, say you're landlord's doing a remodel, then that has to become a site residential a little bit different. It has different protections about it. So it has it's different than a non-conforming commercial office, for example. That's a certainly different nuance. Okay. That was not that's not clear to I think the public. Okay. But that's an important distinction. If it's a house, it's a house. We don't want to lose housing because of this ruling. You know, I think housing is tanamount.

Any further questions? Okay. Mayor Promanderas, just I guess a quick followup. So on first item there, the reduce the discontinuence time for 60 days. This is that's what we're talking about right here. Going from 6 months to 60 days or less. Correct. And we're just basically throwing out options. this came up as a discussion point. What can we do to accelerate the turnover of non-conforming uses as we move forward since we're seeing this kind of activity anyway?

Now, since we've had it as uh if it's not being used for six months, then it reverts, you know, then the non-conforming use goes away and it has to be current. um reducing it that's pretty drastic which I don't necessarily have an issue with that but are there any legal issues we need to be concerned about or you know or litigation because you know we reduced it and I mean just what are the implications of something like that?

Well the short answer is yeah there's some some legal issues with that. The shorter the the turnover period or the shorter the non-conforming discontinuence period the more likely there is of a challenge to that. Um, courts have gone, I think, as as short as 30 days for certain types of uses. Um, I know there's a couple cases involving, uh, mines, uh, gravel pits, uh, that had a 30-day amortization or shutdown period. Um, but it's really going to depend on the nature of the use and the nature of the type of turnover, but six months is pretty well established. Um, the shorter that you get from that, uh, the more likely we'd have to take a closer look at it.

Okay. Thank you. Yeah, that that because to me that seems very very short. But um you also though could establish a long-term phase out as well. Correct. I mean you could say conforming even non-conforming allow but allowed use right now. Um you know 10 years from now it's you you got 10 years notice and it's going to no longer be allowed. Are is that does that have a legal problem? Um, I've got the sun right in my move over here. You have a big stripe across your face.

Yeah. Um, so there is a a wellestablished legal precedent for amortization periods where you give a phase out a period of time. It's based on the reasonable commercial return uh for a property. Um, we have an existing code provision um that deals with that for a particular type of use already. Um, we could certainly look at expanding that to different types of uses as well.

Okay. I'm just wondering about that as an alternative method, although obviously it wouldn't be as fast when we talk about 60 days, you know, or right now at 6 months. Um, Genevieve made reference in her comments to op something empty and operational fixtures removed. That's not part of the criteria though, right? Because I mean, if you have a dentist office, you you know, unless they're really giving it all up, this they're probably going to leave the fixtures. you have a gas station, unless they tear out the pumps, the operational fixtures are still there. That's not one of the criteria.

Yeah, it it's just a discontinuation of the use. So, if there's some indication that the use is being discontinued uh and there's intent to do that um either through the passage of time or um affirmative actions to discontinue the use, that's what the courts are going to look at to determine whether or not that use has actually been discontinued. Got it. Now we separately have I think talked a little bit about having incentives as opposed you know what consent is we off these two options are essentially sticks correct um yes as opposed to carrots.

Okay got it I just wanted to clarify that okay thank you uh council member Funk. Yeah, I wanted to check and see it. What discussion has been had with regard to this with uh downtown business owners and what have we heard from them? This has not been a topic that we've talked to specific downtown business owners recently. It has been some time. So, a few years ago, we've had a lot of these discussions.

Yeah, I I remember this coming up from in front of council a number of years ago. Um and uh one of the concerns that was passionately expressed by folks owning non-conforming businesses uh was their desire to be able to handle an intergenerational transfer. Uh do we have any you know so that you know somebody wants to retire and pass this on to uh their kid or get the or pass their practice on to somebody who will carry on caring for their patients. Um if um if we allow only 60 days, does that um give people enough time to arrange for continuation of the business? If the change happens unexpectedly as in if the landowner uh the the person expires unexpectedly, for instance,

there's a lot of different ways you can treat this kind of a situation. We wouldn't really nail down a specific date because there's a specific change in business ownership or there's a death in the family or there's a transition. When we look at a vacancy, we would really look at the fact that, hey, everyone has moved out. This business is closed and it's been closed for several weeks. Then we would mark that date and we would look forward to say okay and we'd actually contact the folks to say hey you know what's the situation? So, I think that the idea here is we would have a little more oversight on these non-conforming uses, but this isn't a hard and fast rule because it's very difficult to track the timing when something actually becomes vacant and what is that actual day and are we going to stick to the actual day. We're going to obviously have a little bit of wiggle room and so obviously we want businesses to stay and be successful and for the transition ability to be there from generational changes and things like that. I think city manager wants to we

I wanted to add I think I wanted to give a little context because this is kind of a ornament on the discussion tonight. Why is this here? And and so we have been approached by um a dental office around the Sen Gardens that may have an opportunity to move but they were inquiring if there'd be an incentive for that. And so uh I'm working on that. I'll bring something to you in June. But we have in the past paid for an auto use to be removed from the downtown and we may be if you decide investing in a a small uh incentive to move out a medical office. And so it got me thinking if there are uses we desire to transition out of downtown. Why wouldn't we consider something like this? And it could be a couple years and we're not trying to push anyone out right away. uh as opposed to every time there's a use, we kind of want to do something different with having a financial incentive. And so that's why I asked the council to consider it because in June, I will be bringing back a program to you that I think could be very beneficial to move some medical uses out to like moral road and other places in the community, not leaving the community. We want them in the community. So that's why I put this on the agenda because it was an opportunity for you to discuss to see if we're even uh is this something we want to put time into or not. So the uh action that you're requesting us from day on this particular item is just is still guidance to staff.

Yes. And we'd have to come back with codified language to do this. But I was wanted to see if there was any will of the council on these things to do that and we bring it back at a future point. Okay. So there would be an opportunity for um folks, business owners um both business owners looking for opportunities downtown and business owners who have businesses downtown conforming and non to weigh in on this during the um if with with specific language in the development of that process and in that process.

Yes. But I would think that'd be pretty important. I think that would as for if this was a policy the council wanted to pursue, we'd want to have conversations with people and bring that information back to you. if you don't want to pursue it. I didn't want to start having conversations with people to be alarming if I didn't have authority to have it. Okay. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. Um I did have it's sort of a follow- on question. Just curious on the 60-day things in terms of how you define that. I'm glad Mr. Dunore you pointed out that really the clock wouldn't start until we've noticed that a that a business is vacant. Then maybe we reach out to them and kind of give them a notice and say, "Hey, you know, we notice your business is vacant." And so a clock is starting now. So you're aware of that. Um but was you know nowadays it always takes time to do everything. You know if if somebody new is taking over business they may have to reach financing that sort of thing. Um how I mean even six months might be a challenge for some people. So I I don't know that is 60 days even realistic in any any way? I I wouldn't I don't think I'd want to go there. It'd be too narrow. But is that even realistic? I know you guys just throwing it out there for item of discussion. that was fine.

Again, I think we're just exploring options to try and accelerate the changeover. And so, I don't know if it's realistic or not, but again, the idea is that, hey, if someone's doing remodeling, if someone is in the process of moving in and out, those times don't count. We wouldn't look at that kind of a situation. Even on residential, hey, they're doing a remodel, an extensive remodel, that doesn't mean the land use is gone. um when someone actually the tenant is actually gone and the owner maybe has changed and the place is truly vacant and unused and the water and electricity is turned off and there's no activity and you know it may take 60 days for that move out to even happen and that's when that clock might start. So, I think when you're say 60 days, not the time of when that business owner is no longer open. There's different things that would occur that I think that staff would evaluate. Got it. Okay. Thank you. Okay. With that, we're going to open it up to public comment on the on this portion of this item, which is our discussion regarding uh non-conforming uses in the downtown. So,

good evening, council and staff. Jeff Osland. Once again, I was against the ordinance change when we did it a few years back. I'm still against it. I think there's things to be considered. Um, I think that gas station in the downtown attracts business to downtown. Uh, we've made it to where if it burns down, it can't be done. I think if it was remodeled and it fit um the downtown better, it would be great. Yes, it's ugly today, but I think I mean I've seen some up in Redwood City that match the decor of the city and doesn't look like it's a gas station. No different than the one in St. Louis Abyspo off of um Tank Farm. I think it's a chevron or a shell. They uh put plants on the roof or whatever and you really don't see it as an eyesore. So, I'm not sure 6 months is right. when you talk to the downtown, I think if you're building differently in the downtown area and you're going up, that's one thing. But the other thing that I say about doctors and dentist offices and professional buildings and some offices is um Terry Banish has done a fantastic job bringing all these events to the downtown. Those are roads that you're not closing and disturbing people on a weekend because they're not there. It's also more parking, more area for events. So, when you push people out of the downtown, at some point, I think we're going to have a breaking point. You can only have so many restaurants in our downtown. We don't have a city of uh 150,000 people. We don't want to be passable. They have enough problems in their downtown with parking and everything else. I think you guys need to really consider where this goes. I do

know of one medical building where the owner do there was a partnership and owner died and it took months to get financing almost two years to get it through the litigation and everything else. So if that person had a close then what? Now he's out of a building and out of a profession. I think you really need to look at it now on the positive. If uh the city is giving and offering incentives for people to move and that's the direction they go, then they don't feel like they're being forced out. I think that's a fabulous idea. But I can tell you, and I'll pick on Mr. butler on his machines um a couple blocks away. The reason my wife shopped in the downtown at a couple businesses is because she had to run down there and pick up ink for me on the fly cuz nobody else had it and she discovered a store and bought some things. So, I think you have to look at what you're doing. And people come from all over the place for his business to buy old typewriters and antique things. Plus, he's the last dinosaur in the area to uh continue delivering things and whatever. He's not going to be there forever, but I just think we have to look at it. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. And I think that was about 3 minutes, but I didn't see a clock. So, can we make sure the next speaker has a clock? Oh, it's on there. Okay. Usually it shows up on here, too. Okay. Thank you. All right. Next speaker, please.

Hello, council. My name is Brienne Barren. Everybody calls me Breezy. Uh I own Velvet Kitty Tattoo. I just opened up the big pink tattoo shop as mine. Um I'm also the representative for downtown association as well as chamber member. Um as the downtown representative um we have definitely created an amazing team now where we get together every Wednesday. We meet at chamber first Wednesday of the month and use their space so that we can have zoom and get everybody in on Zoom. So, we're really working at getting participation for the entire downtown area, which I plan on doing the next two weeks, is hitting every single business. And, you know, we found out what we had in the bid money. We found out, you know, what what we can actually use to beautify a Tascadero. And we started planning events. Whenever there isn't an event in Sunken Gardens, we have planned an event with all of the downtown businesses together. And um it's really getting fantastic. Like, we have just built this amazing team. And now chamber, we send all of our um stuff over to chamber to put on calendar. So I mean really what it comes down to is this incentive program I think would be amazing because I was complaining about it yesterday and I and I don't like to complain. I'm a doer. I want to fix it and I want to make it right and I want to do the right thing for everybody involved. So, um, getting, you know, dentist office and and medical offices out of downtown area to me that that's a priority because when people are shopping and you're walking around and then you've got a whole block that you there's nothing on that you can go into and it, you know, we're really working on making this place a tourist destination. You know, a Tascadero is amazing and we the beach is right there. I'd rather stay here in a hotel and walk around downtown and then drive to the beach and enjoy the sand, but then come back. So, I mean, I think you guys are doing it like a task at

Arrow is amazing, but yeah, to get rid of the downtown um medical offices and and dentists, it's just not there. There's it's really pointless to have them in a downtown area where we're trying to make it a downtown shopping and partying and enjoying and a place to go and take your kids and your dog and wander. and I love it, you know. So, I think um doing an incentive program to slowly weed out and get these get these other buildings, you know, booming with more businesses would be fantastic. So, thank you for listening. Um I love what you guys are doing and I'd love to be a part of it.

Thank you for your comments and your participation in the downtown uh group. All right. Any other people wishing to speak on this portion of the item? Okay, seeing that I'm going to bring it back to council for comments so we can provide guidance to staff. I'm going to start this time on my right with council member Funk.

Yeah. Um I'm I'm keen on our making a transition over time to uh have, you know, as our last speaker just talked about to move some of the more of the medical uses and dental uses out and so that we have fewer businesses that close at five o'clock at night and are, you know, dead. to um create dead space in downtown when you walk around uh particularly in the evening. Uh but 60 days is just that really makes me uncomfortable because I think there are too many human situations where you just can't really do it that fast. And um while we might be willing to interpret things so that there is flexibility uh we're really adding a lot of anxiety into a difficult transition process uh for um many of our businesses. Um, I feel much more comfortable much more comfortable with the idea of an incentive program, uh, where with an modest amount to help people with the expenses involved, we can create win-win outcomes, um, and open up some properties for uses that are more productive to the other businesses around them. So, um as and as far as um breaking it off um at the you know the point that you you not allowing transfer to a new owner. Um again um I understand it but I'm not comfortable um with that. I I sorry. Okay. Okay, item two of the two things that are

we have two things in the staff report on page 27 of the 47 page agenda packet. Uh the first is discontinuing the time at the time of where the business is closed to 60 days or less. And I just I I mean I could do three months maybe at at most you know I mean you know it's I not below that and I think probably six months is is not an unreasonable time period for particularly because not everybody can plan in advance um when a transition might have to take place. Um, you know, life just is complicated. Um, and I and I would rather have us um either do something like the mayor suggested where we have a long period of time where we say over the course of the next five years or 10 years um we're going to advertise something out so that um eventually you're not going to be able to transfer this owner this nonconforming use, but currently you can. and that would give people a long offramp if they need one and in the meantime encourage with some modest incentives uh to make those transition happens where it where we're right for it and I think we've got a winning uh approach.

Thank you. Um I would add that I I mean I as well feel uh 60 days is just way too short. there's too many circumstances and I and as much as I'd like to see medical offices in particular relocate to let's say more along Moral Road that's been a long-standing city goal city council goal city goal for decades that to to you know have those medical offices uh you know move out of downtown city's never taken any particular action and I can understand partially why in the sense that as much as I'd like to see it happen as well I it it just feels like we're not playing fair to those folks if we try to reduce this and almost puts it into a mode of aha you're gone you know you're empty you know we're switching it around I I don't know how comfortable I would feel reducing it from six to four months even I think the bigger thing is offering an incentive program we talk about which uses we would offer that to uh and I but I would be comfortable with at least looking at the idea of a long-term uh notice is that hey this you know in 10 years 8 years something um this is not going to be an allowed use so plan accordingly. I also think the other piece of this puzzle is that with the general plan amendments we're looking at and allowing taller buildings downtown it'll make these properties more valuable for other developer to come in and say hey Mr. dentist or whoever, I can offer you more money now because I can I can make some more money by um having some more units on a fourth floor, etc. So, you know, we part of the problem is with limited height, we limit the value of those properties in terms of people being willing to buy out buy out that sample dentist uh at a price they can accept. So, I think between the incentives, perhaps a long-term

deadline, andor the changes we're we're making to allow some more density, bring more residents downtown that will do uh that will support more more restaurants, that sort of thing. So, uh I don't know. I I'm not particularly comfortable and I'm not comfortable at all with with just saying, "Hey, if you if you close up shop, the next guy can't do what you're doing." That would be definitely too harsh in my mind. So, uh, those are my comments. Uh, next Mark Mayor Promanderas.

Thank you, mayor. Um, yeah, on the 60 days, it it was it did seem a bit shocking when I saw that to go from six months to 60 days. I I I wouldn't mind seeing it shorten a little bit. I think six months gives I mean, we're trying to trying to transition into into different types of businesses downtown in six months. I mean, it may never happen because it could continue to hands. U I don't know if 60 days is fair. I think the mayor kind of hit on that one and I don't want to and and that's why I asked about the legality of it. The last thing I want to do is find something that's going to or start something that's going to constantly have us in court because we're not being reasonable with the amount of time uh that they can hand it over. Um and I'll go through this kind of quickly. So, and on the second one as far as change of ownership, that one I'm not comfortable with at all. I mean, if if if somebody has a business downtown and they're going to retire and sell the business to the son-in-law and they say, "Well, now you can't do that. You got to use the building as is the current." That doesn't seem kind of fair either. So, I'm a little bit uncomfortable with that. Um, on the topic of of having different types of businesses downtown, you know, Mr. Rosen I thought brought up a good point kind of disagree um that these businesses you're going to close these roads off because of the events that we have and now you're going to affect their businesses. Well, I feel like if you have these other types of uh nightlife type businesses downtown and you're having these events around Sunken Gardens, it's actually going to help their business. I think people are going to come in and they're going to want to visit those businesses even more or or if nothing else u uh see them for the first time and you know not know that they were there and now you've got more business. So I I think having the nightlife type business downtown around the sunken gardens is a really good idea. I think incentives are a good good idea. Mr. Lewis, you brought that up. Um, we talked about that and I think

that that anything we can do to to transition our downtown to um to have more business and more walkability around downtown I think is good. So, um I that's pretty much all I have on that. So, thank you. Okay. Thank you, Council Member Peak.

Yeah, I think the precedent so far has been that when businesses close that are non-conforming, they typically recently have turned into what we want. Amsterdam was an optometrist. Garden City was Century 21. We're not seeing professional businesses replace professional businesses naturally in the past few years that I can recall. Um Oly and Wallace closed and that is now next to Teach. I can't remember what it is now, but it's um maybe a hair salon. But the I think the market is dictating. We see more like communities around here. A lot of people that have medical offices, they're choosing the modern building with the key fob to go in to rent a space. They're not choosing the colony home that they have to retrofit to turn into a dentist or a chiropractic office. So, I think the market will take care of it more so than us telling this is what we want and this is what we want it to go. I'm I'm more in favor of the incentive approach and letting the market do what it does. I'm a big I mean I'm a landlord and if I have a killer chiropractic office on traffic way I don't but there's a chiropractor on trafficway and that chiropractor decides to leave and that landlord's like this is perfect for a chiropractor another one wants to come in there I have no problem saying that might as well it's the highest and best use of the space it's already made for to be that that use I think that we will see over time sunken gardens even if we say a 10-year cap I don't even think it'll take 10 years for Sunken Gardens to turn into what everyone envisions it to be business-wise. Um, so first and foremost, the first comment I'll make is that we do have businesses that suffer when we have day um blockades. Uh, like Malibu Coffee has a sharp drop in in business because their day their daytime morning time coffee people can't go there. Even if the events in the evening, the blockades are there for two days. So, they lose business. You know, Amsterdam might just shut down. Sometimes they shut down on

Saturdays if there's an event because they can't get to it. I've seen that. So, there is a there's validity to it when there's a business that isn't operating operating during the day. Um, you know, you have some businesses in downtown that are that are professional services like a chiropractor, like a hair salon, like a dentist where, you know, the the mom will take the kid over to get a yogurt after their dental appointment or they'll do they go downtown for the appointment and then they stay there. in the middle of the week there's nothing else like drawing people to downtown. That's why we see businesses on uh Intrada completely close Monday and Tuesday, you know. Um I always crave a bagel on Monday, but I go on Wednesday, you know. And uh I just think the market's going to dictate it. I'm just a I'm I'm a big proponent of landlord uh like landowner rights with when it comes to like tenency because sometimes it's hard with a commercial space to even find a tenant. So, I think the incentives for uh businesses like we were talking about throwing around numbers, we won't get into details of helping people set up a new location elsewhere um is a great idea. I think people that are serious about it will um will would be welcome to it. Um, I'm a no, I'm a hard no on change in ownership. Uh, because that that sets a precedence to where in other zones you could have a change in ownership and maybe I have uh a warehouse gym somewhere else in town and all of a sudden if it if that changes down the road and I can't be I'm non-conforming and then all of a sudden I sell the place and they have to move because of this ruling because we if we do it for one zone it's going to end up being like well we did it then so we can do it there and years down the road. It just sets a precedence to be able to to do that. So, I'm a no for changing in ownership. Um, I'm I'm a yes for what kind of incentives can we make and make this like a just a lucrative I mean, quite literally a lucrative endeavor to find a better location that's more

suited to maybe the profession. Um, I'm not a big fan of of of reducing the time. I think and uh I guess beyond that I would just be I'm unclear because I think the typewriter and printer is is a store. I don't think that's really like a business that was is non-conforming. Is it a printing store? The typewrit store? No, it's a service. I don't I don't think that's a non-conforming.

It's a store. Yeah. So stuff like that's is fine anyway. But um and I would just be careful when we're talking about in public talking about businesses that have been here for a long time to talk about them in terms of uh like describing them as businesses. We do not want businesses that are not desired businesses like because there's people that have been businesses business owners in downtown for decades and for it just the language shouldn't be like we're trying to push these businesses out of town like the out of the downtown that you know. So, I just be careful when we're talking about that. I will. At least I'm trying to because uh as a business owner, I don't ever want to think that my business is not wanted in a certain area, even if I've been there for a while. But I just think the market's going to dictate it. I'm a no on changing ownership. Um and I'm a pro landlord. Um that's based on just become being a landlord and and uh

Okay. Hamstring,

right? Yeah. So, I think we have kind of consensus that, you know, we'd rather do incentives. We don't want to change the uh the six-month period. Um and I think, you know, we look forward to that. You guys coming back with more specifics for an incentive program specific um maybe not entire exclusively, but specifically uh interested in how it uh might deal with the dentist office, medical offices. Um, and I think we can maybe hold off on the idea of the kind of long-term thing, but maybe when we discuss the incentives, if council has desire, we could discuss that again at that time in terms of a long-term um, you know, a long-term deadline if you will. But I I think the main thing is to come back with incentive program in June, as you mentioned.

That's what I heard. So, no change to current policy and we come back in June with a program for Right. And I and I I tell the you know the public sometimes you know the staff will put some ideas in the staff report to prompt a discussion on our part. It's not that they're trying to push something on us the council but they are trying to push us into a discussion and that's what we want. So and I'm glad we had the discussion. So okay is that sufficient guidance for you for staff? Thank you. Okay. All right. Thank you. Then let's move on to the next portion of the discussion.

All right. Let's Genevie, are you on?

I am. Great. Um, so the next section we'd like to discuss tonight are the allowed uses in non-residential zoning districts. So, we've already talked about downtown and we talked about mixed use a lot over the last couple of sessions. So, tonight, um, we're looking at the non-residential zoning districts. So, um, two main goals of this zoning code update are really to implement the general plan and at the same time to simplify and clarify the zoning code to make it easier to use. So, some of the key big moves for the general plan are really centered around um the commercial and industrial place types, including creating a new uh innovation flex place time that allows a a mix of lighter creative employment uses, entertainment services. Um and doing some refinement in the industrial areas to focus on employment opportunities. um some lower intensity manufacturing and some more focus on indoor service related uses. So the general plan types define both the primary uses of land and the character of those uses. So um these new place types correlate with unique zoning districts. Um the commercial place types districts are concentrated on El Camino Rial at major intersections. Um, businesses are really retail and employment based and serve the day-to-day needs of local residents. The commercial general plan type translates into two zoning districts. The commercial or C zoning district and the commercial services zoning district or CS. The innovation flex place type um like I mentioned is a new general plan place type and that's concentrated on El

Camino Rial with a chunk on the northern end of town and one on the southern end. Um and this innovation flex place type correlates with a new commercial innovation zoning district. And this is intended to really implement that vision of the general plan, provide opportunities for startup businesses and spaces that can be really adaptable to a variety of uses um as workforce trends evolve. The intent here is really concentrating production, design, maker space businesses in multi-tenant buildings. The industrial general plan place type correlates with the industrial zoning district. That's largely along traffic way and Sycamore Road um and by the by the railroad corridor. And these areas allow for more heavy or or moderately intense manufacturing and distribution. So, as part of the zoning code update, a key change will be consolidating a number of the existing commercial standard uh commercial zoning districts into fewer commercial zoning districts to really simplify the code. And this example shows kind of the list of all of the the um the current zoning districts. Not not all of the areas because some of those have transitioned um into the mixeduse districts, but where new where existed where the proposed commercial zones are. Here's the existing zoning districts that would nest within those. Um so many of these now are going to be consolidated down into fewer commercial districts. So this map shows the um the four proposed districts, commercial, commercial services, commercial innovation and industrial districts. And the chart that shows kind of the same thing, just the four. So by eliminating these four largely

similar zones, we're able to shorten the whole zoning code, making it easier to use. Um, so within each of these zoning districts, a variety of uses are allowed. Um, you can go to the next slide. So, as part of the zoning code update, we reviewed all of the existing land use definitions to provide more clarity. um taking out any that had overlaps so that they were be so the overlapping definitions were confusing or separating out unique uses within some kind of broader definitions. Um and we also added new modern definitions to reflect new uses that we're seeing increasing today and may have a need to accommodate in a tascadero in the future. So in general, the intent was to retain how uses are allowed today for each zoning district, but make kind of minor changes to implement general plan policy. So a few changes of note are identified here and on the next few slides. Blue text means that the definition is a is a new use. Um that this wasn't a definition that existed in the code before. um and changes are shown in track changes on the right side of the table to show where um an allowed use might be changed. So here on this table, an A means it's an allowed use. CUP means that a conditional use permits required. AUP means that an administrative use permit um would be required which can be processed by staff. Um so for example here we heard in previous sessions with council um that there was a need to allow kennels in town and so because this used functions better in industrial and heavier commercial areas than perhaps say in a mixeduse area um we've added the allowance here in um in all of the commercial and industrial zoning

districts to with a cup um and the cup really allows for some additional sight specific standards to be incorporated conditions to address noise and sight suitability. We've added animal grooming as a new use, kind of separating that piece out and noting that that's allowed throughout since there's no overnight boarding associated with that. Um, looking at assembly uses. So, there's public assembly. This can be, you know, a banquet hall, a variety of different things. Um, we have three new types of public assembly identified in in the zoning district in the zoning code. an entertainment facility. It's it's not listed here in this because we not proposing any changes. Um religious facilities and sports facilities where you're like a spectator sport. Um here you might notice some nuance and changes for consistency with federal law uh about religious uses. Um best practices to show that where assembly uses are allowed, religious assembly uses are allowed. So you'll see some changes that parallel that. General plan policy also really encourages the streamlining of uses that are going to enhance vitality, economic development, and so to that end, a number of uses were added as allowed. Um, including new definitions for new kinds of things like a commercial kitchen, and that could be that could be a catering kitchen or a ghost kitchen. Um, we've added broadcasting students studios allowances, indoor commercial recreation like like a trampoline place. um and allowing it uh a bar or tavern to come in more easily with as an allowed use in the commercial zones instead of a cup. And then we've separated out out some other uses that might um need a little bit more oversight like outdoor commercial recreation. Um and we've also separated out other things like car washes from vehicle repair because they have very different kinds of needs that can be addressed through sites through specific standards for that type of use.

So rather than requiring a CUP or an AUP for that type type of use, we'll be adding in some specific standards related to that use in the zoning code. On the next slide, uh okay, sorry it's a little sorry there's a lag. So some other changes to note um new uses like battery energy storage systems um that was previously not identified in the land use um definitions as an allowed use. Um so it would seem like it was not allow not allowed at all. So we want to make it clear that this use is a defined use. So when somebody is looking it up they know if it is allowed or if it's not. Um, and so these uses would be allowed with the CUP in the industrial zoning district. Um, with regard to fitness facilities, so these are gyms and yoga studios. They used to be kind of hidden under um, a definition called amusement services. So that always kind of stumped folks when they were looking for that. Um, and so we've pulled that out to make it really clear. and for smaller gyms um to make them an allowed use um and only larger gyms where you would apply a cup. In the CI zone, a number of uses are proposed to change slightly to really meet the intent of that zoning district. Um facilitating uses that really fit that vibe. Um like nurseries with an AUP instead of a cup. Um which is a more streamlined process. um and allowing other uses that weren't mentioned or or allowed in that area like like a hotel. Next slide. Um in general, the use changes shown here are really proposed to facilitate a variety of different uses as allowed uses or requiring an AUP instead of a CUP. really target targeting um you know

streamlining and making the the types of uses that we want to see u be able to come into the community more easily through a streamline process. Um and at the same time targeting some of that more intense industrial vehicle repair pieces into the more industrial zoning districts um and then more service and retail in the commercial zoning districts. Um, so I'd like to pause here for questions and discussion. And we do have kind of a bifurcation of the the questions and discussion. So I'd like to start with the first part focusing in on any land use definitions that you'd like to discuss um and then looking at the use tables just for the CS and the Izzones and then we can break and then talk about the the remaining two zoning districts.

Okay. Thank you. Um, could you call up the just any one of the pages on the of the table you just showed because I wanted to ask a question before we begin asking other questions. There you go. So, to make sure I follow this. So, because we've created some new zoning definitions here, if like on this top one, that simply means it was a C like under CI drive-through sales and services did require a CUP. We're changing that to AUP. Exactly.

But you go down to like fitness facility or no, I'm sorry, not down to fuel dealer propane. It says the cup is crossed out and now it has two blue dashes. Is that to say it's it's not at all an allowed use in in in CI. What does that mean? That Yes. So that is accurate. So what we did was where uses especially in the C CI zone where we're really trying to create that space for you know maker uses um the the I don't want an explanation as to why I just want to make sure I'm reading the chart correctly. Uh you know so that if we're going it was a cup now it's two blue dashes that means that it is not an allowed use anymore. Correct.

No longer it is not an allowed use in that area. So then you go down to like libraries and museums. There was a red line which means it was not allowed but we're saying now it isn't allowed. Correct. Okay. Because I want to make sure I'm reading and for everybody else that they're understanding and reading the chart correctly. So okay. Uh the way we had this set up was to kind of first talk about definitions. So, I'm going to um defer to my colleagues starting council member Funk on my right uh regarding the definitions themselves, which there's several pages of in the staff report for the for the public who is not looking at an agenda. Uh I have marked most of my things in the usages.

Oh, and I do know that, you know, council members have had a chance to ask, you know, some questions regarding this to staff prior to the meeting. So, we don't need to go over all of them, but if there's something you think is important or would like to see changed, then on the definition, that would be what we're interested in right here. Okay. Um, could you clarify the difference between um art as a as a studio and art as a manufacturing process? It looks like you there is some reference to art in under manufacturing. We're trying to look that one up. I don't recall on that one.

Um, it's it's under S for studio and M for manufacturing. I was not looking for art under manufacturing. That is a good point. And the studio one, um, that was kind of a late ad. We wanted to kind of make sure that that one was clear. Um, so we might want to yeah clean that one up and and take it out of the manufacturing part and make it clear under the other part. Could one assume that like man might manufacturing might be like sculptures, you know, where you're welding pieces of metal together or something versus I'm painting a piece of canvas in a small studio.

Yeah. And I think some of these uses might they might still have some level of overlap. Um, because then it lets staff kind of have discretion of of scale of use and where that might be appropriate. Um I'm I'm sure in the CI zone both would be permissible whereas the CI zone would have more of a manufacturing allowance and if somebody wanted to do um a pottery studio downtown that would be okay because we would understand that size and scale would put them in this definition instead. Okay. So there's some there's some questions whether those might be um combined. Okay. And then what's the scale of activity that you're um in envisioning under electrical generation and storage facility? Uh because that some of those like you know a battery plant like Mororrow Bay was looking at that's like a 600 megawatt operation that can power half a million homes for several hours. um and other kinds of usages that um say that might support a high-speed electric vehicle charging station for you know several cars or uh know a small fleet or that might support a manufacturing process uh to give them really clean steady power. um you know that might be you know the equivalent of u you know 100 uh electric pickup trucks parking at Vance. So can we get some idea of the scale that we're talking about here?

I'd be happy to speak to this. So and I think this was something uh some of the staff at 3CE our power company had some questions about and there were some questions that were raised by others who spun this up a little bit and so I do want to speak clearly to this and I have spoke with the staff of 3CE. So what this is and I think we have to remember we're talking about these are allowed in the industrial area. So and what this is is a primary uh battery storage facility much like you'd see in Nepomo or other places or a very small version of what was being proposed in Mororrow Bay for the storage electricity to be maintained for sale in the marketplace uh for other uses. So that would be basically the big large kind of C container batteries placed in a spot connected to the grid where power is being stored and that would be the sole purpose of that. So those are not being banned in this proposal. They're they're allowed with CUP in the industrial zone. As you think about the CIC and the commercial areas, you could ask wonder question. Does someone want their pottery place or their clothing store next to a large battery storage facility? Uh I think we think there's some question about that in today's environment, but more so we these are one and two acre parcels. They're not very large and so we don't believe that was an appropriate use in this area and that's why we're suggesting they not be allowed except for the industrial zone. Now that said, that's what this definition is. This is for large battery scale things. This is not for a use that's accessory to a business. So, for example, if we had a high-tech business that's doing precision manufacturing and they have lasers and they want to use and they need very consistent, very clean power and on their two or three acre parcel they want to put a halfacre of a large battery that has fire suppression and other things to power their use that would be allowed. That is accessory to the business. If a couple businesses wanted to chain together and have a battery on someone's property for the use of those three or four businesses,

we we want those businesses. We want to encourage them. That would be allowed. That would be accessory to the business use. And so I want to make that very clear. That is not what this addresses. This addresses a smaller version of Mororrow Bay or what's in NOMO. And we don't believe that's consistent with the commercial area. Nor do we believe it economically pencils out. Now that said, if 3CE got into micro grids and micro batteries, um, we're we're just in definitions, right? Yeah. But I'm trying to clarify what this is. But we're I think you've answered the question on on the definition. Okay. Because we I don't want to get too far into where we have an excluded member about the desiraability of

I was only going to add mayor that a definition should a project of the future come at a scale we can't understand today. It could always be changed through a don its own text amendment. Exactly. But I mean the key thing is that the definition here is for one that's exclusively uh a generating thing as opposed to it does not include in this definition the ancillary uses for somebody else as as you well described. So um I just want to say you and save us from getting council member too far into a discussion that they're not going to be able to participate. So I want to avoid discussing the desiraability here where of each of these. We're just talking about the definition themselves and I thank you for that clarification. I think you did a good job of clarifying the definition

and that'll take care of my questions on definitions. Okay. Uh we'll move on. Uh Mayor Promander, any questions or comments or not comments? We'll save that for after public comment. But any questions regarding the definitions? Yeah, just one. There's a suggestion in the staff report on page 18 that to add a definition for a commercial or commissary kitchen because it's in there and it's sort of blended together with commercial kitchen. What would the difference be and why would we need to do that?

I think the intent of that was that using commissary kitchen in this the same meaning the same thing as a commercial kitchen. So that would all fall under the same kind of definition. Uh you know like a ghost kitchen or a commercial kitchen that is like a catering business kitchen. Those would all fall under the same kind of type of use where there is um it's not a it's not a restaurant with sit down uses all um all would be kind of for pickup. Okay. Yeah. Because commercial kitchen as as it shows in the in the uh grid is that it's allowed in all four zoning districts. So commentary wouldn't be any different from that. Okay, that's really the only question that All right, thank you.

Council member Peak, any questions on definitions? Not definition specifically. Okay. All right. Thank you. Um I have under retail restricted we say stores and shops selling products that may have a blighting or a deteriorating effect upon the surrounding area may need to be dispersed to minimize their adverse impact. We mentioned specifically smoking, tobacco, vaping products. Um, I wondered about liquor stores only because in in, you know, in in some places a concentration of them is considered a negative thing. It we just not bother because they're so limited in terms of the the number of licenses available. It's not not realistically ever a problem here.

We do sort of leave that to ABC in terms of how they regulate that density and how they license that. Right. So that hasn't been determined to be in terms of our local zoning, a blighted zoning. Certainly a comment we can take if council so chooses to have us explore that. Wondered why because that's kind of a class considered like in bigger cities or something that's kind of considered a classic sign of blight as a heavy concentration of liquor stores. So okay. All right. Thank you. I have no further questions. Council member, do you have an additional?

Yeah. One one quick followup on the electricity generation and storage. There's a mention in that definition that this does not include solar panels or other accessory electrical generation that is accessory to an approved residential use. Could that you could that definition be expanded to include residential or commercial use? Yes. And I was just telling staff to make that change. So it says land use. Thank you.

Thank you. Good catch. Um okay. With that we'll proceed out to public comment. This is comment on the definitions that are contained in the staff report. Thank you, Council Jeff Osland. Definition when you say storage or a way to uh handle electrical um does that also include these micro nuclear power plants as well and how is that taken into account? Um that's my only question. Thank you.

Okay. Any other member of the public wishing to comment? Please approach. Hello, my name is Lisa Renee Faulk and I'm owner of Glass Head Studio. I teach classes in stained glass, um, fused glass and mosaics and I moved to the area about seven years ago and, um, it was really difficult to find space for an art studio. Um, to put it bluntly, I mean, rent is high. So, I was pushed out to more of a light industrial area, which I really enjoy because I don't have maybe the um, looks from the retail and I can kind of get stuff done. But on the flip side of that, I don't have the walk-in traffic like I would if I was downtown. And I have looked at areas um down in traffic and inrada and all that, but um like I said, my rent is a lot less in the industrial. So depending on your definition of what you're going to do, you might be pushing out artists who don't have the money to pay rent on a higher retail um zoning. So, um, when I saw the list, it said studio work area and not allowing it in the industrial area. And I think that's a big mistake because, um, you know, it's like we're we're trying to make a living doing our art and it's not always art's not always a priority, which I think it should be. Um, and hopefully um, we can we can do that. So, I don't know. That's that's all I have to say. Okay. Thank you. Any other anybody else wish you approach? Okay. Seeing none, we're going to bring it back to council. And on on your last comment, I'm going to think we'll save that for, you know, not a part of this

uh uh u definitions piece. But when we when we talk about what things are allowed in each uh area, that might be a more appropriate place for us to address that concern. Um and uh could you address could staff address Mr. Oland's hypothetical question.

Yeah, I don't think this addresses that and that's why we have his own text amendments. So something in the future could be revisited. I'm not sure that local governments have the power to regulate nuclear devices either. Well, yeah, certainly not to regulate the but I can't imagine if somebody said, "I want to put one of these." They now make them the size of a suitcase or something. I want to put one in my business. Uh I maybe that's a one of those hypotheticals. If it ever comes up, we'll have to address it then. Um, okay. We Let's move on. So, no further. I don't think I think staff heard our questions regarding definitions and maybe just a little clarification on one or two. Uh, but we're ready to move on to the next piece of the discussion which is the tables in terms of uh use, you know, allowable uses by dis district. So, we're going to start with CS commercial service and industrial um and we'll try to address the question regarding art studios. But, um are we we're ready to just go ahead and start with council input on that. Correct. No, no further staff comment. Okay. So, we'll go ahead and I forget. I think I started on my right last time. I'll start with council member Peak on my left this time.

Trying to parse my comments. Okay, we can come back to you if you want to ask. There's some there's some rows that encompass areas I can't talk about. Well, remember we're only talking about CSM. Yeah, I understand. But there's some uses that go across them, so I'd have to I'm trying to be careful my words. Can you come back to me? Yeah, I'll come back to you. Uh we'll start then. We'll go to Mayor Promanderas. Okay, we'll pass he's going to pass to we'll we'll go to Council Member F.

Okay, I've got a list. We'll walk through uh uh running through starting on page 41 and working through in alphabetical order for my comments. Uh we'll start in the C's with caretaker, residents, and employee unit. Um that is certainly listed as a cup use. And you know, I I just want to comment in general, I appreciate the staff's attention to how can we simplify this for businesses and make it while we're protecting the community. My that's re my real interest here is to make it easier for people who want to start a business or do a business um while maintaining community safety and creating the conditions where businesses are more likely to help each other and less likely to conflict with each other in their uses and and customers. So with that in mind uh caretakers residents and employee unit is there any reason that needs to be a CUP and not an AUP? an administrative use permit is this is a much simpler process where you just go to staff and you know there's still noticing and there's still a hearing process but it's cheaper and quicker and simpler than getting the whole planning commission involved. Right.

Correct. I don't believe there's a strong reason that I could give you. I think that's completely at the council's discretion. Okay. Um, on daycare centers, I see that they're only in these commercial zones listed as an allowed use in commercial but not in any of the other zones. Um, if a business in one of those zones wanted to have on-site daycare, um, would they be able to um, do that as a essentially an accessory use?

Accessory uses if it's not a primary use of that property are regulated differently. So, yes, they would be able to do that. So when we talk about these use lists on here, the um the thought is those are primary lane uses where that's the main purpose of that. Okay. So this allows um businesses to add daycare and of course there's quite a bit of allowance for daycare in the residential areas as I recall. Right. Yes. And in the mixeduse districts and in the mix use both. So, but it does keep us from having um you know a large you know daycare commercial daycare center in the middle of an industrial area that then would make it difficult for industrial businesses to move in there.

Exactly.

Okay, got it. Um the electricity uh we've uh covered um horicultural um in the industrial zone. Is there any reason that that couldn't just be an administrative use permit? I mean, I just I can't see why we need to go to the planning commission to discuss, you know, where they're going to put their compost bins and that sort of thing. To distinguish between that, that one is listed as a slashc. And so for some unknown reason, sometimes it's allowed by right and sometimes it requires a cup and the differences. Oh, I see the differences. Oh, holding on the another page. Okay.

I believe the note there references a significant amount of outdoor storage. And so there's reason there's that's why there's an A in the cup. The larger the cup would be if there's a significant amount of outdoor use or storage area. Yeah. I I still think, you know, is there any reason that couldn't be handled in in an industrial area? I mean, plants, you know, compost, things like that that would be appropriate and otherwise look like a park. So, it could be an AUP.

Yeah. Okay. Uh we'll come back to that in discussion. Uh laundromats. Okay. So why are we requiring um laundromats or coin operated to get cups in areas where a dry cleaning plant um has um more of an allow is an allowed use? And could we handle the the challenges of laundry bats with an administrative use permit instead?

That's certainly an option. We see them as different land uses. And when we talk about dry cleaning, we're talking about a dry cleaning service where you simply go and drop off your clothing and you pick it up a day or two later. Um it's kind of like a retail lane use. Whereas a laundromat is generally where um people are staying there for extended periods of time, hours at a time, maybe you doing their laundry, folding laundry. There's a lot of washing machines going at one time. There's a lot of activity day and night. And so it has a different kind of effect on its immediate vicinity. That's the only reason they're a little bit different. Where we place them in a category is completely at discretion of council to be honest. They're not it's not a substantial or or um obnoxious land use and so it could fit in a lot of locations. For example, we have a laundromat in our downtown and it's fine.

Yeah. And a laundromat is the place where you go to, you know, put in your clothes and then visit the nearby businesses and get snacks and buy a good book or, you know, whatever. See who's got what. Um, you get your refill on your at the refillery or whatever. Uh, while your clothes are in the washer. Okay. Uh, that takes care of that one. Um, moving along. So, now we get to a studio and creative workshop. Um, that's why I was asking about, you know, I was surprised to see art show up in manufacturing where I didn't see it. But it seems to me that we could just allow artists um, you know, could we just allow that as a an allowed use in the industrial zone as well? and artists whose business models involve lots of customer interaction and people coming and going all the time, maybe more of a retail type component would self- select out of the industrial area because it's not going to generate their traffic. Uh whereas somebody who's um you know a sculptor or somebody who's fabricating products in fiberglass or metal or glass um has a process that's essentially the same as an auto body manu auto body repair and you know could happily be in that zone.

Can we certainly if council so chooses I think that's certainly an option. Let me just give you some feedback on our thoughts on this particular land use. And first of all too, just to clarify where uh glass studio is now is in a commercial service district. It feels like an industrial zone and a lot of our commercial service areas, a lot of our innovation flex areas, they feel and look like industrial zones. They essentially are light industrial zones. So we felt that's where the best fit are for these studios that have a rollup door and there's people coming and going um and maybe they they're just solely making things and there's no customers going and that's fine as well too. Whereas the industrial zone is this different zone and we only have a little bit of industrial in our community and it's out on trafficway. It's out on Sycamore and it's generally these very large properties where you've got very intensive activities going on. Certainly this land use could be allowed there. It's fine. There's no issue with it. There's no compatibility issue with it. Um but we placed it in those other three districts for that reason. the commercial service, the commercial innovation, the commercial zones just because that's where they tend to gravitate. That's where they tend to have the best fit. Um, and those are essentially light industrial zones as well.

Yeah, I'm just thinking about that strip of land um on traffic way uh where you have all those really narrow uh really shallow lots between trafficway and the railroad. And I I'm trying to figure out why would um a sculptor or somebody doing artwork not fit next to Salty Dog motorcycles or the upholstery shop or other things that are in those that I presume are allowed uses in that industrial area in those smaller properties. We So there is another land use artisan manufacturing we're looking at that now. So it kind of overlaps. So maybe it could still be allowed anyway. Actually, it is allowed. So I think that our definitions are kind of overlapping. This one's more about the creative studio, but there's a artisan manufacturing that would fit. So I think it's already taken care of. Maybe we just need to clarify that. Good discussion.

Okay. Um and then uh temporary events. Is there any reason that temporary events need to go to the planning commission? So, so the little footnote on that one is only if they are um sort of an extraordinarily long temporary event where they need more than three days of setup time and more than three days of tearown time in addition to their event days. Um doesn't necessarily need to be a conditional use permit, could be administrative use permit. Um but those longer type events uh do require some level of conditioning to ensure that the site is vacated and restored properly.

Can you give me an example? I think we had the circus come to town once and they stayed for uh two weeks or so and so there was some site restoration that had to happen with that and some traffic control. The ice rink ice skating. Yeah, the ice rink was here for a long time. It didn't feel temporary but it was okay. Thank you. That'll do me.

Thank you. Um on that though, the temporary events, I mean, I understand longer term thing, but a CUP as opposed to an AUP, um I I would think that an AUP would be adequate uh in this and I want to ask the general question maybe for the public as well as that is um you know, A is an allowable use. So I by right as a business wanting to do that function can expect that if I come in in this zone and it says a I I can do that. Um and that but an administrative use permit means I I come and Mr. Dunore is the community development director has holds a little hearing and uh and he sets kind of the conditions and and grants the approval. Uh a CUP means it has to go to the planning commission. But in terms of this process, we're looking as council member Funk noted and I think others agree that we, you know, we we want to make doing business easy in a task generally speaking. Um, but these are an AUP is appealable whether it's by if Mr. Dunore said no, the applicant could appeal that to the planning commission and if the planning commission says no, an applicant can appeal it to city council. Um, by the same token, if if you know, Mr. Mr. Dunore approved something, these are noticed. There's, you know, there's a yellow notice out in the community physically. Um, neighbors could appeal an AUP approval. So, if Mr. Dunore said yes and all the neighbors go, "What do you mean you allowed a, you know, a fireworks display or I don't know, something uh, you know, loud, you know, a dirt bike uh, competition um, you know, over my backyard fence, the neighbors could complain about your approval to the planning commission." Correct. So, I mean, just to make sure we everybody understands the distinction an AUP and a CUP.

And there's one more thing that um I would like to mention with that. On occasion when there's a very significant topic for an AUP that generates a lot of public controversy, the director may also refer that to the planning commission, bump it up a level. Got it. Got it. And and so people understand, I mean, an AUP costs less for an applicant to go through because it's you don't you don't have to generate a report for the planning commission. It does cost less, Jerry. So, we're trying to make it easier where we can. So, in that respect, I would just think that a temporary event, maybe an AUP would be adequate, but we'll leave that for comment time. Um, I just wanted to clarify that are I'm going to go back down this way. Mayor Promander, do you have any questions or comments?

Run through run through quick here with just more or less why is it why am I seeing the way it is? Uh, eating and drinking establishments, you know, we've got allowed in all four districts. Um, is that typical in in an industrial It's always good to have food available everywhere. People are working industrial zone. Okay. They if they decide to open up a popup food venue or if there's a permanent food truck parking spot, it's okay. All right. I mean, I think that's that's fine. I just didn't I mean, I'm looking at some of these ones that aren't yet. Okay. Would Tin City be an example of that where essentially you have an industrial area, things happening, but you also have, you know? Yes.

Okay. Thank you. instructional services not being allowed in the commercial services. What types of things? I mean, give me an example of an instructional service. It seems that commercial service that might be some place where like depending on what it is, it could be like Mathnasium, you know, over next to Panda was there. I think we need to look at that one a little more closely.

Yeah. Yeah, the intent of that one is um is kind of tutoring centers uh you know kind of the mathnasiums, the kumans um it could also be like a driving school. It's really kind of a hybrid kind of service officy kind of feel um that tends to have kind of chunks of people coming and going. And I mean and that feels like it it's not appropriate in a commercial service area. is that

so the commercial service area is um is not a huge area too. So um I think the the intent too is to to make sure that there's adequate area for the the uses like vehicle repair and other things that are really appropriate in those areas. Um so we don't want to necessarily open the door too wide. And I'll add to that just a little bit in that um like Genevieve said, those areas are kind of auto service and you know tire changing kind of businesses and if you had a a school with some level of classrooms come in that needed some level of quiet and there was some auto use that needed a use permit they could then sort of challenge that. So we are trying to look for some level of use compatibility to make sure that those serviceoriented uses have a place where they can go um where they won't be incompatible with a neighbor. Well, you bring up a good point. And if what what if it was a an auto mechanic school or something, you know, they're going to want to be in the

I think that might be, you know, we might be able to look at that differently based on its scope of use and put it into a different definition. Okay. Fortunately, we do have a little bit of discretion for very unique uses. Um, which is why we have this large definition list and we can, you know, tweak unique things that come in.

And I think this is this is I think this is going very well. I think you guys have done a great job. breaking this down as as detailed as it is. The next one I have is on the retail general 50,000 square feet or less. Now I mean I'm trying to think industrial it would seem to me that something I mean whether it's construction type stuff whatever why it's not allowed at all in an industrial area. I know we have very little industrial and you don't want to take it up and stuff like that, but is there any, you know, I just, you know, I wouldn't want to limit something that maybe would be more appropriate out there and not have a space for it or have it wind up being in some place that's less appropriate.

That's a that's a good point. There are other definitions um where that would fit. So, building materials and hardware sales have its own classification outside of the retail general and those are allowed in the industrial district. um as are contract construction services. Uh those are also allowed in the industrial district. Um so really what we're trying not to see there is like a Costco, right? Or like a large format retail taking away the industrial space.

Well, that one does say less than 50,000 square feet, but yeah, I understand that. Okay. Um, and I'm sorry if I missed because I was reading if it was discussed on the studio in the creative workshops not being allowed in industrial because that was mentioned by one of our speakers here. Um, so did we get a disc? So what we have is the um the manufacturing artisan that also allows similar type uses. Um, so that would give an avenue for allowing those types of studios there.

Okay. All right. That's good. And then I had one more vehicle service stations not being allowed in industrial. I know the service station is like a gas station, but it also according to the definition where some some work can be done on cars and it just seems like a gas station service station tire changer would be ideal in an industrial area. an auto mechanic is allowed in those industrial zones and and someone who does transmission repair and does repair services, but I think our definition for service station is truly a gas station. They may do some light work. Um, but our industrial zone is far off of our sort of, you know, heavy traffic areas. It's out there. So, that was the intent there to leave that out.

Okay. I guess that makes sense because gas stations today are different than they were when when we were kids when they were actually true service stations. Now they're just a Now it's just gas and convenience store. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. That that's all I have right now. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. Before we move on to council member Peak, I wanted to add a question to one Mayor Pertimas brought up um regarding why we wouldn't allow uh large retail and then you answered that we do you know we have the separate category building materials and hardware sales. What about landscape materials? I think right over here we have 43 holding next to um next to hay and feed and I go there and get you know loads of DG and road base and they also have the what's left of Mo's nursery there selling plants um you know and that seems very appropriate for an industrial area. I mean it seems like a decent use. I don't see landscaping materials listed as a separate, you know,

we have two other ones I think that that would fit under. We also have farm equipment and supplies. Um, so there's potential for that. Um, but there's also under the horiculture spe specialties. That's kind of the nurseries and the the supplies. Okay. Thank you. So that covers All right. Thank you, uh, Council Member Peak.

Yeah, just a couple here. Uh, number one, religious facilities. Um, I'm unclear why it would they would all be CUP in the two zones that I'm allowed to speak about. Um, why it wouldn't just be AUP. Um, um, so we have there there's a there is RUPLA, the the religious um, land use act, a federal act that says you really want to treat them the same. Um we also allow we're even more generous um in residential zones than in so religious facilities are allowed in a lot of residential zones as well. Um and so again uh trying to think about matching how we're treating public assembly with religious um assembly. Those weren't allowed uses before. Um, and so we're wanting to be cognizant of of um not over saturating those types of uses. Um, and just making it super easy to go anywhere. Um, but just actually matching how how it's easy to how easy it is to go with um, public assembly in general. Um, and match that because that's really the the type of use it is is is assembly. There's a cup involved when uh like a religious facility wants to open in a residential zone.

Um no, there is it is an allowed use I believe. I'll have to pull up those um the allowed uses for residential zones. Yeah, we'll get to that list in a moment. I don't have that one in front of me either for the residential.

But again, just you did impose the cups on religious things, especially on expansions. I mean many of them in our community existed prior to incorporation but for example if somebody the one up on Portola wanted to expand that there were conditions on that especially if when it comes to u religious institutions might use um you know loudspeakers for outside assemblies um you know some of them have sporting events uh you know youth basketball whatever you when and those when those are outside they might affect the neighbor So um those are maybe not directly their religious you know piece of what they do but you know those organizations and um institutions can have effects on the neighbors. So uh and I believe we have imposed conditions in some cases.

Yes they're they're a significant assembly use. It's not it's not the religious factor. all the assembly uses have a significant traffic and pedestrian and sound um and a significant change to where they're at and that's the reason they're at that c level. What we have done with this new zoning though is added them into more districts than we have today but they we still simply have maintained the requirement for a cup which we've had previously.

It just seems like um I'll just move on. Um, it doesn't seem like there's a much interest in that one. Um, so in terms of the artisan manufacturing in industrial and commercial service, um, I'm assuming that would be someone who and I was the way I was reading it and we know we're not talking about definitions, but I'm in favor of having that in every district. Um, so that's the the difference between that and a studio craft is the artisan manufacturer can be making it and selling it on site like a I'll just use Dale Evers because he's not in the city. I can use him as an example like it was welding sculptures in an industrial zone. People can walk in and buy whatever sculpture that he's got there if he was at a task. Um so that satisfies kind of a lot of that. Um other thing is the contract services outdoors being uh cup for industrial. Um, I'm not really sure why uh that that's the case when we have our industrial areas are so remote. I mean, someone's milling lumber outside of their warehouse or they're building mobile solar trailers and welding outdoors in those areas. Um, it seems like the perfect place to just have an old A slapped on that category. So contract services outdoors um seems like we're we should have less restriction in the industrial zone terms of who can go there. Um and then the last one I have is just uh sales lots for commercial service. Um, I'd like to see that be a CU sales lot to sell like

keep in mind the one you previously mentioned. It only requires a cup under footnote one where there's a great deal of outside storage. No, that is con outdoor contract construction services outdoor is a CUP under industrial. Well, no, it says a cup. No, it doesn't. It says CU right right underneath it.

Indoor. Yeah, that's indoor and outdoor would be the slash if that was that one. Gotcha. Okay. Okay. I just think

Yeah, that and then uh sales lot cup. I know we have a small the for commercial service and I can't speak to the other two um zones. Um, so I just think uh sales lots they're not always cars. They could be mowers, they could be trailers, they could be and we see that in some mixed use and that that we that was brought up during mixed use where the mixeduse zones have a trailer dealer, they have a mower dealer, they have, you know, in our commercial service. Now, we have a place like mid mid mid coast mower and saw. I'm not sure that's considered a sales lot. I doubt it is, but there are things on the lawn for sale. Uh but so there's businesses along there that could be um considered sales lots in the future and I don't think there have any problem with that.

Okay, very good. Anything else? Okay, we'll save that because we'll discuss that and come back, you know, for what we actually want to change. Let's open this up to public comment. See if any member of the public would comment. And we're remember we're talking about the CS and strategic commercial service and the I industrial zone allowed uses in those two.

Thank you again, Council Jeff Osland. Um clarification in that industrial zones, could you have a veterinarian clinic and could you have a crematory? Um just crazy question because I know we zoned them out of different areas and some areas are still grandfathered in but just curiosity if you know down the line somebody wanted to move there. Um, the other one in the industrial, I just want to make sure I know it was brought up for food and beverage, but somebody could in that industrial decide to um share a space or something with light industrial and then have a backyard with a brewery and nightife at night or something of that general. Thank you.

Okay. Any other speakers on this item? Okay. And if not, seeing none, we'll bring it back to council for discussion. And um I would like to clarify in in relationship to that question. Um kind of like I said over in Tin City, you have which is under the county's jurisdiction in Templeton area, you know, you have some industrial uses and then you also have, you know, some breweries and with food, etc. And and in our industrial zone, um you know, we would we would allow that. If I read this correctly,

yes, but our commercial innovation or our innovation zone is generally designed for that because it's like sort of the rollup door zone. So that's what we want to kind of precreate for that, right? Understand it. But if I mean if somebody in the Sycamore industrial park you wanted to do something like that in one of those spaces, that would be an allowed. Yes, they could could do that. And mayor, if I may, if I if I can go back a bit on the contract construction services question, I think that um yes,

Councilman Peak had on that. That land use, a contract construction services, the definition of that one is simply an outdoor storage yard where there's um pipes, piles of um gravel, piles of soil, um a series of, you know, trucks, back hoes. We've had um huge storage yards set up for that particular land use. So, it's a very um there's no one working there. There's nothing being sold there. It's simply a large outdoor storage yard of materials to be used by a private contractor. That is why it's a cup. It's def it's generally been a land use that's been very um lighting, should I say, challenging to locate and it needs to have the right setting, surroundings, conditions put to it. In regard to that comment though, I mean we look at something as you described. It doesn't generate a lot of jobs. It doesn't generate any sales tax. You referred to as blighting. I don't know. I mean, I guess if you had to look at it out your back door, it's not super attractive. But on the other hand, it's the kind of function that has to have a place somewhere in the city because, you know, contractors do have, you know, need a place to store their backhoes and place to pile up, you know, road base, etc. And in that sense, you know, it supports jobs because, you know, it enables businesses to do their business elsewhere. So, it's one of those things. It doesn't sound very attractive either physically or from a, you know, standpoint and um maybe from the city, but it it, you know, we have to all businesses that, you know, support other businesses, jobs, etc. in our community need someplace to go. So, um you know, I think sometimes people forget that. It's like, well, we don't want that. We don't want that. Well, those things have to go somewhere.

Absolutely they do. And that's why it is is there as an as a use is there as an allowed use but still a conditionally allowed use. But again up to the council. I just wanted to describe our thinking on that and why it ended up as a CU on there but happy to take your comments and and revise accordingly. Okay. Thank you. I I wanted to go back then. Um, Council Peak, were you suggesting specifically that uh of changing something from CUP to A or or CUP to AUP or on that? On that one specifically, yes. And that's on on the construction services outdoor.

I think I'm I would be okay with it being up to staff to approve it without going to planning commission. And I just think that when you have something like what we just what you were just discussing and you bring it to a public meeting where people you know there'd be a lot of roadblocks where you know it's just if if someone wants to use the land the way they want to use it and then it goes into a public hearing it just becomes more of a process for someone who just wants to store some rocks in a tractor on their on their industrial property. I just think it becomes like too much of a process. Well, yes. Although to be clear, an AUP is a public process. You know, I don't think in many of our AUPS held by Mr. Dunmore are very well attended, but it is a publicly noticed and a publicly open process. It just doesn't involve

the planning commission. Planning Commission and a full-blown staff report to planning commission. Therefore, the cost is way less to the applicant. But, you know, if the neighbors see the, you know, the yellow card posted there, they go, "Huh, storage yard. you know, they're free to come uh to Mr. Dunmore, Mr. Dunmore's hearing and, you know, say, "I don't want that out in my backyard or whatever." Okay. Well, that I would like to change my opinion to full A on that then because I was under the impression that it was planning commission was public hearing. Anything less than that was not. So, it just shows my ignorance.

Okay. Thank you. Um, any other specific suggestions from council members on something they want to see changed in the CS or I tables? Council member F.

Yeah, I I think pretty much all the ones I asked about. Um I'd like to see uh caretakers unit drop to an AUP. Um I'm comfortable with with a change that council member uh Peak has requested on contract construction services, although I'd also be comfortable if it's an AUP. Um we don't have daycarees are fine. Um, on horicultural specialties, I'd suggest in the industrial area that be an AUP. That's your um um landscaping materials uh sales yard. Um

an A A or a C depending a CUP depending A or an AUP rather than A or a C

A or AU. you know, if it's a really big outdoor storage, let them go to staff and and get, you know, get some guidance on it, but let's keep it simple. Um, the um laundromats, I I would uh like to change them in the relevant zones that we can discuss right now to from CUP to AUP. Um, if people got to wash their clothes, um, I would like to see studio and creative workshop be allowed in the as an a use in the industrial zone. Um, and people can uh studiocreative workshop. I know that there's some overlap with the manufacturing process, but I still think uh the point is well taken that we need to keep we have some of these industrial spaces that are smaller on trafficway. they're, you know, going to be suitable for an artist or a small group of artists and, you know, we need to get those guys a a decent break and that there's no problem with it that I see. Um, I don't think that we're going to have a large art colony taking over the, you know, the back 40 of hay and feed, so we're good. Um, the, uh, tattoo and body piercing services, um, are requiring an AUP right now. um I can't imagine why you need an AUP for that in the industrial zone if somebody wants to put their body push in there um or or you know frankly um you know in the um in industrial C and the flex zone either one or we flex zone we're not discussing right now but I'll come back to that

you're suggesting that those AUPs become a instead of a yeah Um and uh on temporary events um I propose that be those be either A or AUP as opposed to um A or CUP. Uh because the the larger events, the thing the reasons that the staff explained that we would want to have a CUP are about technical challenges in traffic and restoration and all that stuff. And why are we going to give that to the planning commission? Let's let staff handle it. Okay, go ahead.

If I could make one clarifying point about the AUP process. Um, back back in February when we talked about presenting a slight change to that. While today it is a um public meeting, we did present back in February uh that when you see the final draft um a proposal that the AUP process would change a little bit so that um when staff does their review, they would send out a notice and we would only hold the hearing if it's requested by the notified parties or by some member of the public. So um it's likely that those those meetings will shrink moving forward in an attempt just to streamline the process. Understood. Understood. I recall the discussion now that you mentioned it, but I mean the key part of that being that, you know, neighbors will still be notified. There'll still be a physical notification at the at the site.

So, um, we're just not going to hold hearings that nobody shows up to. We're going to hold a hearing. So, the notices will say if you desire a hearing, contact community development. Correct. Right. So I think I mean that is I'm glad you pointed out that change but I think it still gives the public the opportunity to comment. So thank you mayor promander.

Thank you. Um on the horiculture specialties you know obviously I'm reading this in ornamental plants so that means flowers house plants and whatnot. And it occurred to me, I'm not sure where in this under what definition would cannabis fall and and how does that and I'm not sure if I know where that's at. Well, I asked this question earlier and I think the answer is because because we don't currently allow it. It's it's simply not included in there. If we ever chose to allow it, we'd have to put it somewhere. Well, is that is that

Well, we I mean, we've got some we have some things in here that we just simply show no. I don't know if every there's anything in here that has not allowed across all four, but isn't that we have we have a separate section on cannabis and right now we do allow for a testing lab with a use permit and I think we allow for non storefront delivery services and um they're in a different chapter than these guys. So, okay, that's not on discussion tonight.

All right. Thanks. Okay. All right. Good question then. Okay. So, um I don't have anything to add what my colleagues talked about. I would make comment on a few of them and ask did staff capture all of those suggestions as we went along. Thank you. Yes.

I I Okay. Um I'm going to go back. Council member Peak, I did want to comment. I feel I feel good about those changes and especially we're changing a CUP to an AUP. And um again, not personally a fan of tattoos, but I think they should be allowed. People like them. You know, people seem to like them, and there's no reason to require an AUP. Um and I glad you brought up the uh the temporary events. Uh and I would um in terms Council Py, your suggestion to make um the construction services an A, you're referring only to the industrial zone, correct? Okay. I kind of would have gone to AUP, but um I I can live with A if if my colleagues want to want to make that simply an allowed allowed thing um in the industrial zone. So, you had another one you wanted to add though? Well, yeah, I kind of snuck it in during the question part, but the if there's any interest in a a CUP in the commercial services for sales lots, you know, I just think of some some of our lots in this area, particularly like North County Propane or a big a lot like that or somewhere that wants to maybe sell tractors or sell equipment. I just think a sales lot um we shouldn't rule it out in a commercial service. If we're going to have a vehicle service in um commercial service, then we should allow uh or at least give the ability to petition to allow like a sales lot of any kind in commercial service.

And so the intent of the sales lot is a little nuanced. The definition um explicitly doesn't include vehicle sales or farm equipment supplies. Those are both under different categories. This is this is more of um a space that can be used for for like um for like a swap meet. So I think um I think it may already be addressed um under vehicle sales um and farm equipment and sales. I think of a swap meet as a non-permanent establishment. This is says permanent establishment for outdoor sales of items used or new. Yeah. Not including vehicles or farm equipment.

Triple 7. Yeah, lens repair. Like stuff like that. I mean, you could sell trailers, anything. I'm not going to die on the hill. I'm just thinking that it's hog tying potential business.

I think the thing is on that, I guess in a lot of people's mind, it would depend on what's being sold perhaps. Um, but it's a good point of like you look at like Glenn's Repair. Is that a sales lot or is it just a retail business? I mean, it it seems like it's just a retail business because they rent things, they sell things. I'm not sure if staff has any further comment on that item, you know, or whether what would be the harm of having it as a CUP in the CS zone. I don't think there's a a harm from doing that. If it's a CUP, then we can have discretion on Okay. things that could happen there.

Are you okay with me adding CUP to that to the CS category for sales loans?

Okay. Yeah. Got it. Okay. I did have a just a generic question. It's something Council Member Funk brought up earlier about like businesses that want to have on-site daycare. You talked about that being an incillary use. If I'm a business though and you know, okay, look at my business is an allowed use in where I'm proposing to do it under this zoning, under this table, but I'm but I do want to have some incillary uses, whether it be a, you know, a battery storage or or it's daycare or it's this or that. How do I know what is, you know, potentially going to be allowed in in the terms of an ancillary use or do I just have to come and ask and and do we have a policy in general like, you know, on-site daycare for businesses because that's something in general we want to encourage, but have do we have that codified anywhere?

We do. We have a discussion on accessory uses. Not sure where that's going with our new code. Um, but it certainly is something we we have thresholds on in terms of the floor area. Often times we've used in the past less than 50% of the floor area, sometimes less. I forget where our current code is going with that or what that's I don't need to get into specifics. I just wanted to make sure that yes, there's, you know, a point of reference a business could go to and and get those questions answered. So, we we don't need to get into it tonight. So, okay. Thank you. So, you have our suggested changes. I think we had concurrence and consensus up here on those. So, I think we're we're good to go, right? This is sufficient for you. Okay. You have

I'm sorry. I just noticed this last one and I'm and I apologize again if somebody mentioned this and I missed you guys talking about it. The recreational vehicle park not allowed in industrial. I know we had one that was was uh uh applied for about a year ago or so, started to go and then it failed. But why why not have I know like that place on trafficway was used for that. is probably not the best. That's storage, not park. Well, I mean, well, how Oh, a park. I'm thinking of parking your vehicle. Okay. So, all right. I'm just reading this wrong then. So, a park as in what's was going to go over by Del Rio, right? Okay. Terms of lodging. Yeah, that's a lodging facility or a hotel. Hotel.

Okay. I'm just looking at it as parking your recreational vehicle. Thank you. I did the first time I looked at it. I did as well. Okay. I think we're good then on this and we will proceed to the C and the CI zone discussion and council member Peak you I'm recusing myself of my interests in both those zones. Okay. Thank you. Um you obviously can listen downstairs. I believe you can speak as a as a member of the public if you desire on this item. And the only thing after this is council committees and reports. So um we will see you for that. Okay. Thank you. stretch break.

Oh yeah, let's take a stretch break while while council member Peak uses himself. Let's make it fairly quick. It's 8:04. Let's take a six minute break and be back in our seats at 8:10.

Okay. I believe it is 8:10. We said we would reconvene. Yes. And so we are going to reconvene. We're going We have only three council members, so we better all agree. Um and uh we're going to move on to our discussion of uh C and CI that is commercial and commercial innovative uh areas. Now, because of the lengthy discussion we already had, um I think, you know, we probably I hope council members don't have any questions and we'll see real quick if they have questions. Then what we'll do is let's go out and see if we have public comment and then we'll come back to see any comments council members have or any specific changes they'd like to make in these two zones. So, any member of the public wishing to speak on this, please approach. Okay, seeing none, we'll bring it back to council. And uh again, um some of these some of the changes we suggested may also apply to C and and uh CI uh zones, but um let's just start see what comments you have either any clarifying that you want to add those as well. You don't need to go over each one, but if you think the changes we discussed in the last thing also apply to CNCI or if you want to add anything else. So, I'll start. Council member Funk.

Yep. There we go. Um, I would add on the contract construction services, we made that change in the out in the industrial area only, and I would not be keen on changing it um in the um in any other zone.

Okay. Um and the horicultural specialties I asked for that to be changed in the industrial zone but I don't think we need necessarily need to change it um in the um other zones that which the well couple of the other zones are already a um so I think that's I think it's okay with that one change um but it does under c say a cu you don't want to make that a a

well in the commercial district. I'd be I'd be okay to make it a I think what we're talking about with those those businesses is somebody making sure that you site the the compost bins appropriately so that doesn't look ugly and interfere with other businesses. Um and you know ugly is always in the mind of the eye of the beholder. Uh, if you love plants, that compost smells great, right? Or in the ears or nose of the beholder. Yes, that too. Yeah. So, but yeah, but I'd be I'd be okay with changing um commercial to an AUP. A SL AUP instead of A CUP.

Good. Thanks, uh, mayor. That's a good catch. Um, laundromats AUP across the board for those areas where it's currently a CUP. Um, and we left it as a allowed use industrially or at least that was my intent. Um, and I think we the others covered we want to be the change in studio and creative workshop was only allowed use in the industrial because it was already in allowed use in the others. So there's no change that's needed there. Um, and uh, yeah, I think that does mem. Okay. Thank you. Uh, Mayor Pertander, is anything you'd like to add? Okay. And in which case then, how do you feel about the suggestions made by council member F?

I'm good with them. I think nothing are fine. Okay. Uh, I as well can live with those changes you suggested and I don't have any other suggested additional changes. So, I I wanted on the uh allowed use for the tattoo and body piercings in the um we make a across the board. Make a across the board. Correct. Yeah, that works. Yeah. Okay. Does staff have anything they want to comment on or any concern about those suggested changes? Could I just ask for clarification on the um caretaker units? Yes. Was that just a change to industrial zone or were you looking That was across the board.

Right. And that was to make that AUP AUP. Change it from CUP to AUP. Yeah. I mean staff can handle whatever technical thing needs to be handled. If somebody needs to live on site, uh, right? We should make that possible, right? So, it would apply to these two two zones we're discussing now. Yeah. To make it an AUP. Okay. I think we are good. Staff, you're good with that guidance. Very good. Okay. All right. Thank you. With that, we can invite uh, Council Member Peak back up because we are ready to move on to our next item, which is our council announcements and committee report. So I will begin on my right with council member Funk. I think we have one more before we call them back. I think what do we have?

Yes, we have the commercial innovation district discussing both C and CI right now and that our comments pertain to both C and CI. Yes, thank you. Development standards are next. Oh, development standards. Oh, okay. Wait, I'm sorry. Development that's the chart on page 20. It's going to be really quick. Don't worry. Which page? page 20 of your Okay. Right. Because that pertains specifically to CI, correct? Yeah, there's a chart that had development standards on a little more presentation to pop up. Okay. Oh, okay. I missed that. So, yes, page 20. Oh, go ahead.

Great. Thank you. Um, so the purpose of this district, we've talked about it already, really fostering that space for production and design maker spaces to thrive. Um, go ahead to the next slide. We've got some images of what that might look like. The vision for the stone is really to have that maker production identity um and foster those kinds of uses um visually adaptable frontages. So just kind of looking at the map of where the CI zone lives in town, there's two parts. This is the northern part um and the existing land uses are shown here. So this is exact actually what is on the ground today. And so when you turn this map on, you see it's really kind of a a mix of industrial, commercial, a little bit of uh vacant and residential thrown in there as well.

Visual. We can see it on page 23, but the public won't be able to see. Yeah, the public can't screen. Go ahead. I'm not sure. The map on page 23 is what she's referring to. Is it? She's Oh, okay. on the map on page 23, but go ahead and please keep talking to it and try to get up on the screen.

Sure. Thanks. Um, so we're taking just kind of a a Google Street View drive down the corridor to kind of put us um kind of where we so we're familiar with with the area um and the uses along the area really quite quite mixed throughout. Um, but some of that that light industrial and then kind of mixing of of the uses as well. Here's the south side of the uh CI zoning district. This is the area that um is included. And then when we turn on the map for the existing land uses, we see that this is again a mix of uses, more commercial and some industrial mixed in here as well. Um and taking a quick drive down the corridor, we see the uses starting at the north or this is kind of the northern end of the southern part with um a mix of uses and a mix of of development types too as well as we drive along the corridor. um and ending um near the southern end with vacant and um uses that seem to kind of align with the commercial indust innovation vision. Um so thinking about the the development standards that will facilitate that vision, we've drafted some de some standards that are really intentionally kind of basic. We don't want to make it too complicated. Um, we really just want to focus on those key items that can support adaptability of structures moving forward. Um, and making sure that we're being flexible. So, to that end, the setbacks are really flexible. Uh, the requirements are really just linked to those where street trees are required. And if the parcels adjacent to a residential zoning district, they'll have some extra setbacks. Um, and then we think about where where is outdoor storage occurring. We don't want it to be happening right along El Camino. we'd like it to happen behind the buildings. So really um not allowing fences right up front against the property, but

instead pushing them back with the outdoor storage behind the buildings um and really um encouraging any new development to push buildings um closer to the street. And then um ground floor ceiling heights are an important one here um to allow for that adaptability. Um, you know, we do kind of want a forklift to get in and out, some rollup doors there, um, and allow that hybrid industrial and commercial use to occur. Um, so one of those key features is a requirement for rollup doors. You don't have to install a roll-up door. Um, but uh, it would the the building should be designed to facilitate this type of development um, at a later point in time. Um, so we really want to be able to make sure that those those types of uses can allow access into the interior spaces. Um, and then there's a fine there's one kind of modest requirement for transparency when you're looking from the primary street largely. This is El Camino on most of these parcels. Um, to have some transparency. So this is glass windows or doors um, and making up 20% of the street facade. So these kind of standards are really intended to help the the the vision that's already manifesting with Barrel Creek um really come to fruition. Um so we see that here's another example of not a local industrial building, but how it might transition um over time into a hybrid more retail maker space development with a lot of different types of uses. So really setting in place the standards that are pretty basic but would allow this type of of uh vision really to to get implemented and I think I did that in less than five minutes. So ready for questions and discussion.

Okay. Thank you. Um I have a question regarding well one I want to clarify for really for the public. When we say minimum lot size two acres that's for any property that's larger than two acres. We wouldn't allow that to be subdivided below 2 acres because most of these lots existing lots are already smaller than 2 acres. Correct. That's right. And it doesn't that that wouldn't prohibit them from being developed that like that. And it wouldn't prohibit someone even subdividing down smaller if they came in with a development plan for what they want to do.

Got it. Um because when I first saw that I thought, wait, most of these lots that we're talking about are already much smaller than two acres. And that explains the the rationale. the Florida ceiling ground floor height 16 feet. Now we discussed that issue somewhat at length uh previously in some other areas or in a previous discussion and we we had 16 feet, 15 feet, 14 feet, 12 feet um and we narrowed it down to a couple but I thought we narrowed it down more to 14 feet. What did we do? Because 16 seems like a lot. Um, it I assume that question that would also only be applicable to multi-story buildings or you saying if somebody builds a one-story building it's going to that you want it to be 16 ft.

We had that discussion with our mixeduse districts and we did decide on a couple different ceiling heights on varying different mixeduse districts. Now we're having the same discussion in these other commercial zones for these ground floor spaces um based on what we're seeing it takes to support the kinds of land uses we want to see there.

Right. Right. But if somebody comes in and and you know they want to build something and for their particular use they they see no need for 16t ceiling. Um in fact they probably maybe they don't even see a need for a 12oot ceiling. But I'm a little hesitant to go to 16 feet because you if you talk about the building height being a maximum of 35 then essentially uh you know 35 ft they're not going to get three stories out of that because they'd only have 19 feet left for on top of the 16 foot minimum and and they're not going to get two stories in 19T. So are we really saying you can still fit three stories in all these commercial zones even with a 16T ground floor ceiling

height? But one would be 10 and one would only be nine feet. And with all of the, you know, the way that floor the way that the top floor is measured, it's measured um Kelly might have to help me out, but it's measured from like more like seven feet. So you it's allowed to have that that variation to to make that um flexibility happen.

And so I think the intent behind the 16 ft is also to support the rollup doors as well. Some of them require additional space for that rollup space. Some of them even up to 30 in. Um so and to have that space to have, you know, a forklick actually come through the space. Um it does have to have a little bit more height than some of our than all of our our mixed zones actually. So this um this zone actually does kind of support that that higher um ceiling height vision. interesting. But we did in our prior discussion, as you said, I think we ended up with 14 for some things. I don't know recall us ending up with 16 for some things, but

I I believe we ended up at 16 for our highest use mixeduse zone, the vertical mixed use zone, but we would have to Okay. go back and check. So, we end you think we ended up with like 14 and 16 or or something like that. Okay. Correct. It just I don't know. It it feels I'm a little concerned about that being a cost a cost for folks. What would be the latitude for somebody to come in and say, I just, you know, I don't have any intent to use it in that way or that form. We're trying to preserve there for future uses, but it's always difficult to tell a property owner, you know, the property owner now who wants to build something that, oh, but we want to make sure you build it to allow some other things in the future.

Yeah, there's always a design, there will always be a design exception process to ask. Um, you know, what we have found is when somebody builds an office building for offices, it it precludes future use. And there's there's not many people that come in and tear down a building. So, the property will forever not be allowed to be the flexible zone that we envision if we don't create the spaces that allow for that over time. Okay. Understand. All right. Thank you. Um, council member Darus, questions. Let's try to keep questions.

I'll keep it quick, but to comment on the 16 foot ceiling, it's funny. I almost think in some way even a taller ceiling you I know you're going to go what but would be almost better in some cases because it provides you the opportunity for a mezzanine space 16 you can't if you have a 16 foot tall ceiling you're not going to turn that into a second floor you know for an office or something that you're going to do upstairs maybe some sort of weird storage with a low ceiling but again going up to 20 feet would probably do it but then you are limiting the overall height of the building or what you can do with it. But anyway, but as far as the 16 ft, I'm good with that and I just wanted to comment on that. Thanks. Okay. Yeah. Questions. Council member.

Yes. Um on the um minimums, front setbacks versus um the uh fencing. Um if somebody wanted a low fence um that's related to you know that you know how they want to decorate the front of the property. Um is that is that fencing requirement consistent with what we've done in the uh setbacks? I I'm not sure that it is.

We we can definitely add an allowance for like a low decorative fencing. I know there's some that have like a split rail just decoratively and this is not intended to be that.

Yeah. Not a I'm not looking at six foot or eight foot uh visual screening fences flat up against the sidewalk. That's not going to give the right vibe on this zone. But de small shorter decorative fences. Yes. Okay. So that could be distinguished. Um and looking at what we've got in though that what will become this zone now do you have a sense of how what percentage of the the uh buildings currently meet that 20% um transparent openings requirement?

I don't have a great sense. Um, I think there are a lot of buildings, even when we look at the Joe Bella Center, um, when we look at Mitch's new development up there, I I think a decent amount do generally have some windows and and glazing facing El Camino Rail. Sure. Um, I'm sure that a lot of places have some. I'm just trying to square the requirement for big rollup door um up front and having 20% of it be glass. So you you've got a rollup door, but you also have a fair amount of of frontage beside it where you've got to have windows and and so forth.

The rollup doors don't necessarily have to face El Camino. So it's based on um site design. So your rollup doors would be facing your loading areas, an interior parking lot, somewhere where you're going to have that ability to again get the forklifts through and things like that. It's not necessarily facing El Camino. So El Camino just has sort of a a requirement to have some sort of storefront or entrance way that is glazed um so that it's not a blank wall.

Yeah. Okay. So, if you think about the area where Glassad Studios has their shop, you've got that's a fairly deep section of land and it's got multiple uh banks of if you will um of buildings. It's got, you know, three rows of buildings building back. only this requ would this a requirement for the public street frontage transparently openings apply only to those portions of that area facing El Camino Rale and not to any of the other buildings back behind. Yeah. And I think she's not on El Camino in a little bit different zone, but yes, if that were to be built there, it's only the buildings along the the public street. Okay. Base along the public street. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. Good question. Yeah, because those folks don't have a street frontage in effect. So, okay, let's go out and see if we have any public comment on this item.

Good evening. I'll try to make this quick. Can we put up the very last slide that was showed if that's possible, please? While I'm waiting for that, uh I'll comment on the uh rollup doors. Um Glenn's Repair has 10 foot. I can tell you I wish I had 12 and 12 should be the minimum opening. So, therefore, it should be 14 ft with a header. Um because getting things in and out definitely. I don't know if you should put a requirement on um max but minimum for sure. Um I think is a great idea. If you look where those umbrellas are on this slide, there's a fence there. And that said no fencing at all. I think that should be written in that you can go 3 feet or 4 feet. Maybe it's see-through or something. maybe you need to close your patios down um in the evening for security reasons or ABC or something. So having a no fence I think is a mistake um unless you want to put a definition in. And then lastly, if you put a rollup door in, and this is a glaze question, could you also put in beautiful glass doors behind it and would that count as glazing? Thank you. Okay. I think the first question you raised, council member Funk asked that question and answered that we the the fence discussion in this item as presented uh was talking about solid fences and stuff. It decorative fences were not intended to be excluded and maybe just need to clarify that.

We'll clarify that in the definition. Yeah. Um I'm not I not sure I understood the second question there. Um I don't know if staff has a comment on that if you understood that and have a comment. I'm not sure I sure I understood it all the way. Okay. I suggest you meant talk with staff afterwards. Uh go ahead and council member Funk. I think the question is if you have if looking at the image here um on the right you see some uh

you see uh windows that are sort of rolled up or whatever. If you if the uh landowner decided to have windows um and a rollup door um a different structure so that the rollup door would sort of cover the windows but you had glass behind it then and so sometimes it could be covered with the rollup and sometimes it would be open. Uh would that qualify? So it's essentially like the rollup door becomes a shutter is I'm hoping that I characterize that. Okay. Yeah, I'm not sure that we've considered a a security shutter situation.

Essentially, that's what you're referring to though, right? Is that you'd have a security shutter, so at night it wouldn't it wouldn't be transparent, but during business day, you'd roll it up and got a transparent door. Good question. Hadn't thought about that in that way. Um I think and that would be still considered a storefront. That's an opening. The idea is to have this welcoming open appearance. It's part of the architecture. Okay, got it. But driving by in the middle of the night, it might not look so inviting. Oh, yeah. Okay, understood. Any other comments then from council members? Okay,

I think this is uh this is okay. I I do think it's important to clarify the fencing and make the assortment of the open fencing. Um I know I can work with the 16 foot uh requirement in this zone given the guidance of staff about the importance of rollups and forklifts etc. I

I probably still have a little bit of concern but I given your my colleagues comments and staff's explanation I can live with the 16 foot on this in this instance. So um okay any other comments staff are we good in terms of the guidance provided? Okay, thank you. Thank you for the presentation. Thank you Genevie. I believe we're ready to move on now to um our council announcements and committee reports and council member Peak if you're welcome to return and we will hold you off till last and we'll start on my right then with council member Funk.

Okay. I'll report that uh last week Mayor Promirez and I were in Sacramento at the League of California Cities uh city leaders summit. This is an annual um educational and um lobbying uh opportunity and uh was there advocating for our city with uh Senator Leair, Assembly Member Addis um and other members um with regard to our wastewater treatment and uh homeless funding and other concerns for our city. and and uh we I think uh and I and like many of us the mayor was schleing and serving soup at the Echo Empty Bowls fundraiser which brought in over almost $100,000 uh for homeless services in our community and the shelter expansion there. So it meant like many of us I was happy to attend and support.

Thank you. Yes, I I got to serve soup alongside our fire chief, Casey Bryson. Okay. Um I actually had a city selection committee meeting this morning and which lasted very briefly, even shorter than our our 17minute meeting last time. We reappointed two members of the airport land use commission. Um and we are going to be hosting the county mayor's roundt or the mayor's meeting in May. We're going to do it right here in this chamber because it's always a beautiful thing. We're blessed to have the, you know, most impressive city hall for hundreds of miles around. So, and I did attend a special meeting of the um of Central Coast Community Energy um because of the uh rebate the battery rebate program was overs subscribed and so the decision had to be made as to um uh you know shut it off at the budgeted well it was already over budget. shut it off at the amount already paid or uh honor applications that had also subsequently been received. And the decision was made to honor uh the all the applications received uh to the tune of an additional 3.7 million or 513 uh customers who are installing uh battery systems. And that's all I've got. Um IWMA did not meet in April. So ME promises Okay. Well, I won't repeat what council member Funk said. We were in Sacramento. It was a a great few days um meeting um with a lot of different people and the sessions that we went to I think was very informative. Um APCD's meeting well in a couple weeks. So, I got that and I'm looking forward to judging Tamali's this Saturday. So, please join us for Tamali's and fun this Saturday. Council member Pete,

no committee reports, but I'm also looking forward to eating tamali's um all morning and that'll be a great time. Karen and I, my wife and I had the pleasure attending Habitat for Humanities dinner in Edna Valley. It's a big fundraiser and very successful and our very own Lauraai Kappell had a hand in helping that evening and it was just a a great event. I recommend it next year to anybody who wants to attend. Okay. Thank you. Does any council member have any individual determinations or actions they'd like to bring up?