Finance Committee - Regular Meeting

OK, good afternoon. I'd like to call to order this meeting of the Finance Committee for Monday, August 24, 2026 at 5.30 PM. Please rise and join me for the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right. Our next item is roll call of membership. Let the record show that all members are present. And Alder Hartzheim is joining us remotely. Our first item is approval of the minutes from our previous meeting, 26-1098. Approve.

Second.

All right. Are there any corrections or additions to the August 10th meeting minutes? Hearing none, let's go ahead and vote. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye. Aye. That passes 5-0. We have you, Alder Hartzheim. Thank you. All right. We have no public hearings or appearances, so we will move directly into our action items, the first of which is 26-1099, request to award the fire station number one window replacement phase one project contract to Tri-City Glass and Door in the amount of $52,640 with a contingency of $15,000 for a total project cost not to exceed $67,640. Can I get a motion?

Move to approve.

Second.

All right, we have a motion and a second. Are there any comments from staff? Any questions from committee?

Alder Crowe. Thank you, Chair. The question that I had is in regards to the contingency. If someone could just comment. I know the memo states some of the reasons why, but 29% of the project total is listed.

All right. Oops, wrong one.

OK. Yeah, thanks for that question. It is a lot of money. But we're asking for that because if we encounter any asbestos containing materials within that wall, it's going to cost at least $5,000 to $10,000 just to get them there to do the work, and that's not any of the other stuff. So it's really hard to get any remediation or that kind of stuff done. If I did like a 10% contingency on there, it would only be $5,000, and I couldn't even get them there for that. So that's why the contingency is a little, high for this so Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that and that's basically what the memo states I just was wondering if maybe the other bidders took that into consideration or I'm not sure what the bid yeah that that was That was it was interesting opening that with the price difference so I we did talk with Tri-city and walked through it with them and they are good with their bids and The one difference between the bidders is the other two bidders would be purchasing windows from a window manufacturer, such as Tri-City, and then installing them. So I feel that they manufacture their windows in their shop, and then they would go and put them in. So that's part of the reason why they were less.

Okay, thank you. And then the last question, I guess, is the amount that's left, is that enough for phase two?

No, that's not going to be enough for Phase 2. We are asking for money in the 2027 capital improvement plan to catch the Phase 2 amount. Okay. All right. Thank you, Chair.

Thank you. Anyone else? All right. Seeing none, let's go ahead and vote. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye. Aye. Alder Hartzheim, we see you. Thank you. That's 5-0. All right, 26-1104, request to award contract for Unit 026 Storm Sewer CIPP Lining to Insidiform Technologies USA LLC in the amount of $277,314.83 with a 5% contingency of $15,000 for a project total not to exceed $292,314.83. Can I get a motion?

Move to approve. Second.

All right, we have a motion and a second. Anything from staff on this one?

Yeah, Director, one. You are on. Okay, thank you, Chair. Yeah, so we're looking for approval for an in situ forum to do some sewer lining. Basically, it's in an easement at the St. Mary's Cemetery. So the existing sewer is very old, and we're looking to put a liner in that too. Kind of work in conjunction with a project that they have going on. They're going to be removing a bridge, putting about 10 feet of fill over the top of our sewer. So timing works out perfect. We were able to get a project out the door and get some good bids. Very happy with the bids. So yeah, looking for approval on that today.

Thank you. Anything from up here?

Alder Crow. Thank you, Chair. Has this company ever done any work for the city? I know the other bidder has.

Yes, they were actually the last lining contractor that did work for us, and I've worked with them probably about a half a dozen times in the last 20 years.

No issues? Nope, no issues. Thank you.

Okay, Alderman Zeeland. Thank you, Chair. If I'm not mistaken, we're doing a lot of utility replacement in that neighborhood. I'm just wondering why we would be looking at a lining versus a replacement. If you could just talk about that a bit.

Yeah, very good question. So this is a storm sewer that basically runs from Prospect, and it goes through a ravine down to the river. Access is horrendous, and especially after the tornado just went through there. So once again, very happy with the bid numbers that we got because there's a lot more trees in that area that the contractor has to navigate. So to get a... To do an open cut project in there would be very challenging. We'd be dealing with the DNR, and we're able to basically go in there and not really disturb anything. So the CIPP lining technology is perfect for this scenario.

Okay, great. Thank you. All right. Anyone else? All right. Seeing none, we'll go ahead and vote. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

Alder Hartzheim, did, oh, I think she, oh, there she is. All right, thank you. I thought she froze for a second. All right, that passes 5-0. I thought she had frozen. 26-1101, request to accept Fox Cities Convention and Visitors Bureau, CVP, tourism development grant in the amount of $300,000 for the Fox Cities Exhibition Center Capital Reserve Fund. and approve the corresponding budget amendment that accounts for acceptance and expenditure of previously awarded $100,000 CBP grant.

Move to approve.

Second. All right, we have a motion and a second. Any director to? All right. Director Holman. Oh, sorry. Wrong one. Thank you, Brad. I'm going to start over. Please, and I apologize.

There's really two pieces to this. One is granting us the ability to accept a grant that's been awarded by the Convention and Visitors Bureau, which is funded by room tax dollars for $300,000 to capitalize a capital reserve fund for the exhibition center. So we're very excited about that. The other piece is a budget amendment. If you take a look at the second sheet, It allows for the $300,000 grant to come in, as well as the previously awarded $100,000 grant, so $400,000 of revenue coming in, and then corresponding $400,000 in related expenditures.

Thank you. All right. Any questions? Alder Hartzheim.

THANK YOU, CHAIR. I AM CURIOUS WHERE THE FIRST 100,000, WAS IT JUST IN A HOLDING PATTERN SOMEWHERE UNTIL WE ESTABLISHED THIS SPECIAL FUND OR HOW, I BELIEVE WE ACCEPTED IT ALREADY. I JUST DON'T KNOW WHERE IT HAD BEEN.

The grant itself was accepted. I think it was an oversight to not do the corresponding budget amendment. However, that particular grant is on a reimbursement basis only, and the project it would fund is currently out to bid. So we haven't needed to deposit funds yet. So this was a good opportunity to meet with Director Messerschmidt to really get a better handle on how grants should move forward. and progress moving forward. So we're just cleaning up something that got missed. Thank you.

Alder Hartzheim, you glitched for a minute. Did you hear her answer? OK. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Any other questions? All right. Seeing none, we'll go ahead and vote. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye. Aye. And we have you, Alder Hartzheim. That passes 5-0. 26-1103. Request to approve Unit W26 Sewer and Water Reconstruction Change Order Number 3 as a contract amendment in the amount of $21,950 for a new not-to-exceed contract total of $2,740,050 and an unchanged contract contingency of $60,000. Move to approve.

Second.

All right, we have a motion and a second. Anybody from staff have anything on this one? District 3.

District 3. All right. So this is for our mini sewer project. If you recall about a month, maybe two months ago, that project got rejected due to high bids. We did have one property on that list that was a higher priority where the gentleman did a lot of work on his private side expecting us to be putting that public lateral in. He will now have some flooding concerns if we do not get him that lateral. So we do have the W contract with Crew Check Construction already in town doing work of the similar nature. So we asked them for an estimate on that. And I also got a third estimate from another contractor, and this one was favorable. So that is why we are asking Crew to do the one property this year. And that will come out of our $250,000 budget that was for this year for the mini sewer project. And then we'll carry over the remaining funds to next year to get caught back up.

Thank you. Any questions up here? I guess I have one. Alder Crook.

I think Alder Hertzheim had one, too. Okay, thank you. I guess my question is, I thought nobody was getting this this year, and now we're going to do one. I assume nobody else reached out with a similar type situation?

That's correct. Typically, we... We don't tell property owners because they can do what they want on their properties, but we kind of instruct them not to do any work ahead of time before we get there with the public lateral. We had a new plumbing inspector sign off on the permits, unknowingly, that there was no public infrastructure there. So we're trying to do what we can to get him that public infrastructure piece so we can get them connected to our storm sewer system.

Yeah, I understand, and I think it's good that we're working with them, but I'm just kind of a little bit concerned about the precedent that it sets of, oh, we're going to pick one. Understandable. I have a couple in my district that we're not getting them.

Alder Hartzheim, did you have a question?

Go ahead.

Thank you. Mine was generally the same as Alder Crote's. I think that, again, my concern was, How do we prioritize? How did this come before others? But I believe I've heard enough. I'm just still concerned about the precedent, as Elder Crow said.

And I can add to that. We do priatories number one through three on our mini sewer projects. So this one was a priority one after we found out that he was going to have some issues this spring if we did not get him connected. so that's why we bumped it to a one. Everything else on that project was a priority, too, so we felt that there was no need to do those this year.

Thank you. Anything else from up here? Alder Van Zielen.

I'll just add that I think it's very fair, given that the homeowner may believe that these departments are speaking together. I think in this instance, it's acceptable to move forward.

Thank you. Anyone else? All right. Seeing none, we'll go ahead and vote. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye. Aye. I see Alder Hartzheim. That passes 5-0. All right. Item 26-1100, request to approve a A $35,400 amendment to contract number 55-26 with Martinson and Isley, Inc. for the fire station number four renovation project, increasing the contract amount from $5,800 to $41,200. Can I get a motion?

Move to approve.

Second. All right, we have a motion and a second. Anyone from staff have comments on this one? All right, any questions from up here? All right, seeing none, we'll go ahead and vote. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye. Aye. That passes. I see you, Alder Hartson. That passes 5-0. All right, 26-1109, request the authorization to allocate salary savings for finance modernization and classification and compensation consulting services. Can I get a motion?

Move to approve.

I'll second for discussion. Okay, we have a motion and a second. Director Messerschmitt?

Okay, so this part of some of the struggle that we're having in the finance department is because we have a position that's been vacant I have sat down with Each and every one of my employees just to kind of get their feel of where the department's at and where they see struggles What I've been able to determine is that I've got a very intelligent staff underutilized. So I don't know what levers I should be pulling to make sure that we're getting to where we need to be so that we can meet our deadlines. Part of the engagement with Baker Tilly I'm sharing with Jay, which is the comp and class plan. But as far as it relates to the finance staff, They're going to help us time block and be able to look at what we do today. There's a lot of processes that we still do as if we were on the old system yet versus into MUNIS and trying to find those efficiencies. A lot of the staff doesn't have the history of what the tasks actually are or contain or how to do them in either system. So it's a little hard to kind of just say, OK, well, I need you to work on this. And so in order for us to get to where we need to be, this is basically a comprehensive plan study on the finance department to figure out where we have those efficiencies and also working with IT and MUNIS as well to isolate where those are and where we can start to be more efficient with what our department is responsible for producing and making sure that we get it done on time.

Thank you. Questions up here. So just a question that I had and I understand this is a very difficult question for you because you were not here during the implementation of In your opinion, was the training of personnel on the Tyler Munis system, was it insufficient, or did we just not have the right pieces in the right place?

From what I can gather, just speaking to the staff, we had a lot of turnover in 2025, and with going into 2020, the enterprise asset management system, which is the CEA piece of it, and then also going into the utility building module, we had two very tenured employees that retired or left. So a lot of that knowledge wasn't passed on to the new staff. and then also what they are capable of, the tasks they're capable of performing within MUNIS and still having our internal controls be in place so that we're covering to make sure that we're not having any overlaps or dual functions that could cause the potential for fraud. Okay. So to answer that question, it's kind of hard. Again, from what I was able to tell, It just sounds like with staff turnover and trying to train and trying to get stuff done, it was just kind of like, let's just get through it. I have found that the staff wasn't aware of some of the resources that they have available to them. So they've been starting to utilize that more. I've had a pretty large conversation with Corey in IT. Amy spends a lot of time with our department from IT. And so trying to... back her off a little bit and then also have my department be able to triage the problems before they get IT involved is really the direction that I want them to go in. Again, it's just once you can learn it and you have to research it and figure it out, it tends to be retained. I also find that they're starting to take the template standards of operation or procedures to, make those into a training guide so that someone after them will be able to figure out what the tasks involve. So they are customizing it. And that is one of the bigger goals for our department is that we have like a call it living standard SOP for all of the functions within our department so that someone can walk into that role and not be like, okay, what do we do today? So I just, and I've been through a NUNAS implementation and when you have, when you're in implementation and you're having staff turnover, it is, it's, it's, it's, It's a challenge.

Agreed. Thank you. I think that helps me understand a little bit. I see Alder Hartzahn with her sign up. Alder Hartzahn. Thank you, Chair.

I have concerns over this. Mostly because Not every department is getting this. Not every department has the wherewithal to make this happen with the vacant salary dollars, et cetera. And I would prefer always to have vacant salary dollars turned back over so that we don't spend them if we don't have to spend them. But I spoke at length with Director Ratchman in this regard, and he made it clear to me that this is kind of a long time coming for the finance department. And that he also kind of made it very clear that the best way to spend vacant salary dollars in this instance is to try to fix the problems that occurred because of those vacancies. So while I'm still very uncomfortable with it, I do feel a little bit more comfortable just knowing those things and it's got the full support of HR. The other little piece that comes with this is that small piece that's going to be the the review or the evaluation of whether the big salary thing that was just done in a few years ago or a year ago is up to date. So I'm, I'm comfortable with that piece for sure. And I'm less comfortable with finance reorganization, so to speak, but I get where it's coming from and I can support it. Thank you. Thank you.

Alder Crote. Did I see you?

Yeah, thanks. I just wanted to say that, for the most part, I concur with Alder Hartzheim. When I first read this, I had to reread it, and I'm like, what's going on here? But since she made a comment about Director Ratchman's comments, I'd like to hear from him and see if that aligns with what Alder Hartzheim told us.

All right. Director Ratchman. Hang on. I punched twice.

Great. Thank you, Chair. So absolutely, my comments match up with Alderperson Hartzine. We had an in-depth conversation. I would say in most situations, this sort of like ask would not be brought forward. It's common for new directors to come in and make changes, but not to have to go through some sort of study of their table of organization. I THINK FROM THE COUNCIL'S PERSPECTIVE, YOU CAN SEE WHAT FINANCE HAS BEEN GOING THROUGH. THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF TURNOVER. A LOT OF HISTORY HAS WALKED OUT THE DOOR, EVEN WITH TYLER MUNIS. I THINK OF WHO'S BEEN THE EXPERTS IN THAT DEPARTMENT. THREE IN PARTICULAR, ALL THREE HAVE, TWO HAVE RETIRED AND ONE HAS LEFT THE ORGANIZATION. ACTUALLY ALL THREE HAVE RETIRED NOW THAT I THINK OF IT. SO I THINK THIS IS A TOOL IN THIS SITUATION THAT OUR NEW DIRECTOR IS ASKING. to align resources appropriately. And I would also echo that we have a lot of talent in that department, and this gives the opportunity to really structure the department so that we use that talent. So we're not asking for more staffing. We're asking for help to get that department aligned correctly and use the resources available that are already available.

Thank you. That helps a lot. I kind of am I'm just going to say it because I'm wondering, if we don't approve this and go down this path, what does that mean? I mean, is that a bunch of risk, a bunch of continued inefficiency? Just kind of like to understand the value of approving it. I'm going to vote for it, but I'm a hesitant, reluctant supporter.

I was going to say a few words, and then if you'd like to speak as well, but I think it's an investment is the best way I would describe it. I do not think the way we've been functioning as an organization, even when you look at some of the deadlines that have been out there, that we're as efficient as we need to be. So do I think there's risk? Absolutely. But I also would hopefully flip this around and say I think this is an investment as to how that department should function moving forward. I think the compensation piece, which is separate, we can talk about that. It's a different discussion. It's just the same consultant, which is why it's in the same memo or the same ask.

Yeah, thank you. I see Alderhart's time again. Oh, you're on mute. Alderhart's time, you're muted, I believe.

Sorry.

All good.

Thanks, Chair. I forgot to mention that I would be interested in what our how we will evaluate and result here. Like where will we see and how will we come back to council with, or how can the finance department come back to council with a, here's where we've improved and here's where we've saved and here's where we've improved. better supported the taxpayers in this city. So I'm interested in Director Messerschmitt explaining or helping us to understand how we will see the benefit of this, because I don't want to just write a check for a hundred and some odd thousand dollars, assuming that it's going to go well and then find that it didn't go as well as we expected to, and then that's just sunk dollars. So I'm looking for how will we evaluate that this has been successful?

Okay, Director Messerschmitt.

So part of the one-on-ones that I did with staff was just to kind of get an idea of where they are with what their job description says and the work that they currently do. What I've been able to find out in part of some of the issues that we're having, meeting deadlines, is that everything comes through my office. That necessarily does not need to come through my office. To show success in having this assessment done will be efficiencies utilizing MUNIS more robustly. We are using it at the very minimum capacity and also not using it to collaborate with other departments for the way that it's intended. Still kind of siloed. So that's part of the issue that we'd be working with Corey's group with and a rep from MUNIS that There's no charge for them to do this stuff. We've got that covered with our annual subscription. So Baker Tilly and Tyler folks would be working together to kind of do a ROI on our current day process versus what our future day process should look like, which then will get us dug out and we won't be in this spiral constantly when we have staff departure that it will be more of a succession planning when people leave that we've got stuff prepared to move forward so that it's not such a big lift when someone decides to leave the department. And I just think things just have been shoveled around to anybody that has a pulse or a breath in our department so that the stuff can get, so the tasks can get done. And it doesn't really make sense. Some of the tasks are with people that don't really have any input into what, you know, like payrolls doing the finance committee agendas, that doesn't make sense. They're not in the day-to-day activities. So that's one simple realignment that needs to happen. We also have a staff accountant that doesn't do a lot of staff accountant duties that she could be doing a lot more. and also the position that's been vacant for a majority of the year. I think we had someone in the position for about a month. The staff accountant's taking on those duties right now and working through what that position did. Again, I don't think that there was a need for that position. I just think that duties need to be spread out amongst the proper staff in my department so that we can be accountable and that we can meet our deadlines.

Am I to follow up, Chair?

Please.

Thank you. Those are all excellent goals. I feel for this director, for her director of measurement, because this has got to be very difficult. However, my question is then, why could we not do a lot of that alignment in-house? So, and I'm not, I am, just as Alder Crote said, I'm reluctantly supportive of this. I just, I guess what I would like to ask, perhaps Chair, you and Director Messerschmitt can sometime in the near-ish future, subsequent to this, assuming that it gets approved, come back to the Finance Committee with, here are the efficiencies that we've found, here are the things that we have done to to add more cohesion to the finance department. I'm looking for where can we see this evaluation and if we can have that as a piece of this action item or even a separate piece that comes from committee chair and the director, I would appreciate that very much.

Absolutely. I would have no issues bringing those achievements back and also what the consultant has determined that some of our biggest pitfalls are. I would love to work with staff and do that. I just don't have the time capacity amongst all of the tasks that I have to produce and responsible for and then also try to realign staff and try to understand their processes where someone that that's all they do for their full-time position they'd be much better at it than i would be i kind of have an idea i kind of know where we need to go so that helps to guide the consultant a little bit but as far as spending that robust amount of time with staff i don't have that capacity unfortunately um was it was hard to even just get through one-on-ones with the entire staff um first couple weeks that i was here so

So I agree with Alder Hartzheim. I think, assuming this item gets approved and we go on with this engagement with Baker Tilly, I think it would be great at the end of the engagement to, just as an information item, bring forward either not necessarily in the minutia of what they asked, but some of the changes that you're going to implement. And as someone who did ERP system implementations for a living for a really long time, I can speak to the difficulty of having a subject matter expert who has worked along with the implementation and participated in the training and and is kind of a key user in this area, and then they're not there anymore. Probably Alder Furcus has experienced this as well. And so I understand that. It is of concern that we need to do this in this department, but I'm grateful that, I'm not grateful that we have empty positions, but I'm grateful that we are able to fund it without concern. asking for additional money. But I agree with Alder Hartzheim that I would love to see somewhere at the end of the engagement some concrete plans for things that have happened or that will happen. And I do have a quick question for Director Ratchman as well. And you're on District 3. OK. Director Messerschmidt and I were talking about it and recalling that we did our big compensation and classification. Was that in 22 or?

So in January of 22, I brought forward a recommendation to do a study. And then it was approved by committee and council at that time. So we spent a good portion of 22, I think it was about eight months of work, completing the study, and then we implemented it in 2023. And in the memo that I supplied, I also put that a market analysis should be completed about every three years in a competitive market, even probably earlier or sooner than that. So that's where we're at.

Okay.

So is this something that we would expect as a city? We're using some vacant salary dollars for it now. Is this something that we should budget for every three years, or would we be doing that going forward?

So I had planned on bringing a supplemental for it in the 2027 budget to ask for the $17,000. In fact, I had planned on doing it last year, but with where budgets were at, It was not a priority. I won't say it wasn't a priority. It just didn't meet the final budget. So as we had talked a little bit about this relationship with Baker Tilly and using vacant salary dollars, that's why we're doing it now. So the short answer is we should. We should be trying to keep our plan updated because we've addressed a lot of issues by doing that compensation study.

Right. And we're not always, we hope we're not always going to have vacant salary dollars. We want everybody just to stay here and... until they retire. So maybe if it's something we need to do, maybe we need to plan for it going forward in the budget. All right, anyone else have anything on this? All right, seeing none, let's go ahead and vote. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye. Aye. I see Alder Hart signed. That passes 5-0. Information items, are there any information items that anybody on staff would like to speak to particularly? Anything up here? Oh, I'm sorry. What mic are you on? District 1. OK.

So this is for the Appleton Northside Business Association banners for the light poles. I just wanted to note that we went through this process last year. Unfortunately, the banners were ordered in the wrong size. They're ordering new ones. That's the point of the item.

And if I understand correctly, we're acting as a pass-through because the business association isn't the right designation to create this purchase. Correct.

Yeah, the funds would need to go to either a governmental entity or a 501c3, which the ANBA, unfortunately, is neither.

Okay, so we have no skin in this. We are just doing them a favor. Correct. Okay, awesome. Thank you. Thank you. All right, anybody on committee have any questions, comments about any of the information items? All right. If not, would anybody want to speak to the festivities and construction mid-year report?

I reviewed it, it makes sense to me. I checked the numbers, everything looked good as far as what was being reported in it, so.

Okay, it looked like a lot of work done to me.

That was Mr. Fleck, he did a lot of work on it, because I caught it.

All right, that would take us, if there's nothing else, that would take us to item eight.

Move to adjourn.

Second. All in favor?

Aye. We are adjourned.