Finance Committee - Regular Meeting

Good afternoon. I'd like to call to order this meeting of the Finance Committee for Monday, July 6, 2026 at 5.30 p.m. Please rise and join me for the Pledge of Allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

All right, roll call of membership. Let the record show that all members are present, with the exception of Alder Van Zeeland, who is excused. Our first item of business, 26-0897, approval of the minutes from our previous meeting. Move to approve. Second. All right, are there any updates or corrections to our June 22nd minutes? All right, seeing none, we'll go ahead and vote. All those in favor, please signify by saying aye. Aye. That passes for zero. We have no public hearings or appearances, so we will move straight into our action items. Mr. Blank, are you gonna wanna speak on that item? Okay, okay. Once we introduce it and get it onto the floor, then I'll call for comment. All right, our first action item is 26-0900, request to add 395,500 to community development budget, new and redevelopment projects, RE North Meadows Investment LTD cost reimbursement agreement amendment number two. Can I get a motion?

Move to approve.

I'll second for discussion. Okay, all right, if you wanted to speak, Mr. Blank, I will get that podium mic on. And just for the record, give your name and address.

My name is Walter Blank. I live at 2623 East Sundance Drive, Appleton, Wisconsin. And did you ever want something so bad that you could just taste it. And you went out and you got it, and you went, oh, it's just not what I thought. I just got done with an hour and a half meeting graciously hosted by Ms. Holman with several members of ACT. And we went through 20 questions, I counted 20, plus any side questions. So we got a good opportunity to get, well, very familiar with and learned a few things. with the issue of the proposed TIF district 14. And I think one of the biggest takeaways I had is that we really want this. We want it so bad that we're willing to go to lengths that maybe we shouldn't quite go to. The idea of subsidizing a business's disposition of property, kind of raises a red flag with me. The idea that we're looking the other way on some of the ideas that have to do with why would we have a TIF district. Need? I don't think so. Blighted? No, not blighted. I guess the but if is the angle that we're probably going to have to look at. The last thing I, the very last comment that one of our members made was to Ehlers that, what other contingencies did you consider?

There was no answer.

Only that one. We want it so bad, we didn't look at other possibilities. You've got coming up a couple of actions that will buy property or something along that lines to support this TIF district doesn't exist yet. You shouldn't be buying things to support something that doesn't exist yet. Nor do I think that it will go unchallenged. I'm pretty sure we will challenge it. I just want you to realize that you can want something for the wrong reasons sometimes. And in this case, I think that we're on the wrong path. So in the past, we've raised caution flags and turned out to be okay. We did, good reason. Maybe we're wrong in this case, but I'm gonna ask you to ask for more than just one consideration on this. One thing, that was looked at, the whole deal. Maybe there's a better way. Thank you for your time.

All right, Director Holman, Director Messerschmidt, who are we gonna hear from first here?

Director Holman.

So the item before Finance Committee is a budget amendment request. There is a related item that will go before Community Development Committee related to the cost reimbursement agreement amendment number two that's proposed. What we have before you is a request to increase the miscellaneous revenue by 395,500, as well as increase other contracts and obligations for 395,500. This involves the acquisition of land directly from Wisconsin DOT that would be added to the right-of-way for intersection improvements at the Ballard and Evergreen intersection. The agreement itself would need to be approved and then our DPW team will work with WisDOT on the acquisition process.

Okay.

Anything from finance on this?

Okay. Go ahead, Alder Hartzheim. You're probably going to ask my question. Thank you, Chair.

If I'm lucky, I will. May I direct to... Please. Director Hellman. What if this were not North Meadows Investment or Thrivent and there were no TID on the table? What would the city be doing or what would be required of the city to manage this with property that we intend to try to, as a city, acquire?

Yeah, so in this case, the acquisition would be 100% funded by Thrivent. So we would acquire it and then they would reimburse us at 100%. Is your question if Thrivent wasn't doing the project?

What if there were some other developer that was going to be doing something in that area and the city knew that they needed to improve that intersection?

So if that developer asked us to acquire it and they would front 100% of the costs, I think we would entertain a similar cost reimbursement agreement. It is advantageous for the municipality to acquire directly from WisDOT because WisDOT gives a discount to local units of government. So if there was another developer who wanted to partner with us or we acquired it, yet they were planning to do the actual infrastructure work, I would anticipate that'd be something we'd entertain as well.

Who would May I ask follow-ups? Oh, yes. Who would really be responsible for purchasing this property should the infrastructure improvement need to occur? The developer or the city?

Could you ask that again?

I'm sure I'm not forming this question correctly, but my point is that Thrivent is saying to the city, we would like you to purchase this intersection because, as you said, it's advantageous for a municipality to purchase it from WisDOT. But would a other developer, not Thrivent, be required to do that in order to actually develop anywhere near there in order to improve that intersection? Or would the city be looking to do that in the first place and then it becomes a taxpayer burden to do that?

It typically depends on the extent of what's being proposed. In this case, there was a traffic impact analysis as the phase one plat of the subdivision was working its way through. Our traffic engineer worked closely with the county highway department to review that TIA and given the projections of traffic volume that would be coming through that intersection, it was required of the developer to fund the improvements through the subdivision process.

So it would, were it not for Thrivent or TID or anything else there, would be a developer's purchase. It would be a developer's cost.

It's my understanding that the city in the past has handled infrastructure funding on a case-by-case basis. The approach we've been taking to date during my time here is that anything that the developer can cash flow and is warranted for them to do it, that's our basis, unless there is a need.

Okay. And separately, is this particular item in front of us and the corresponding item that will be later on this week, in this regard, this purchase from WisDOT, is this deeply interconnected and are there contingencies between this happening and a TID being granted or vice versa? Is it intricately intertwined that if this does not occur, then that cannot occur or vice versa. In other words, if the, in my dreams, if the TID were not approved, would this still need to occur because Thrivent would still want to be developing and then this still would be, sorry, I've been asking the city to purchase this from WisDOT.

Are you asking if the TID did not occur, would this intersection improvement? No. To my knowledge, they would not proceed with the plat infrastructure as it's been laid out.

Okay, thank you.

Anyone else?

No other questions, no comments?

Alder Hardside.

Thank you, Chair.

I would just like to make a statement that I very much struggle with this because I see this, if this were a standalone item, if this were just, this is going to happen and this developer would like the city to purchase this property and it's advantageous for the city to do so rather than a developer directly with WisDOT, This is completely advantageous to the city because we as citizens, we as taxpayers get the benefit of this without having to foot the bill for any of this. But it's my understanding from what you said, Director Holman, that that would be generally how it would be in any other situation, were there not other pieces to this puzzle that we know are going to try to fall into place in the next week, week and 10 days. So I'm very much struggling because, again, if this were standalone, I would like this to happen because I don't want the taxpayers to have to foot the bill if anything does have to happen. And on the case-by-case basis, as you stated, the city determines that the city is going to have to foot this bill. I'd rather have the developer do that. But I struggle because this feels like it's completely intertwined and contingent upon something that later on I do not believe is advantageous to the city or is good for us as a city. So that's my statement, thank you.

Yeah, I'm struggling with this as well. And mainly I'm just trying to understand if this particular action item, what is the ramifications of this not passing? With the tie to the TID, that's not approved.

So are you asking if this isn't approved?

Yes.

Like the cost reimbursement agreement?

Yes. If the action item on our agenda isn't approved, what are the ramifications of it?

If this were not approved, then the developer would need to acquire the land directly from WisDOT, dedicate it either to the city or county or both for right-of-way, and the cost of it would increase for the developer for an asset that ultimately will become part of the public right-of-way.

So it's advantageous for the city to get it from the DOT from a cost perspective? Yes.

OK. Yep.

Thank you for clarifying that.

And it's being paid for by the developer.

And can I just clarify, all of that property that would be acquired with this budget item would become part of the city's right-of-way?

I believe some of it would become city right-of-way and some would become county right-of-way.

Okay. Okay. But it would become public right-of-way. That's my understanding. It's my understanding that, I mean, we're talking, it's a trail that hits Ballard right now. And if Evergreen were to be extended as is in the project plan, that would have to become a full.

Yep. And my understanding is the Wisconsin DOT owned parcel in question, where some of the acquisition needs to occur. is the park and ride parcel at the southeast corner of that intersection to get all of the lane reconfiguration to happen. With Evergreen going through, the intersection needs to move slightly east to add turn lanes and bicycle and pedestrian facilities. So that's why a sliver of that park and ride parcel needs to be acquired and then dedicated to right-of-way.

The bottom line is everything that would be acquired will become public property, whether it be city or county.

That's my understanding, thank you.

All right, Alder Hart's on it.

Thank you, Chair. Again, Director Holman, could you repeat for me what, after Alder Crote's question and the response, what happens if we approve this and the council then also approves it, but a TID does not occur?

Sure. So if we have, and some of this might get into legalities, but if we have a binding cost reimbursement agreement and we determine it's still advantageous to proceed with the acquisition to expand the right-of-way for some time in the future when that intersection happens, but the TID isn't created, we might have a situation where we have a wider right-of-way that does not yet have an intersection that's constructed. That makes sense?

It does, but would Thrivent have a... Would Thrivent then renege on this agreement because, hey, the city didn't do this, that, or the other thing subsequent to this agreement and the purchase of this right-of-way?

I think that's getting into how an attorney wouldn't... I don't want to... I'm the city. I represent the city. To date, Thrivant has done everything they said they're going to do. I think right now we're talking in hypotheticals.

I absolutely understand, but you see the situation that I'm faced with as well.

Yep. I think in that case, we would make sure we have the funds in hand before we did the acquisition.

Thank you.

Alder Furcus.

Thank you, Chair. So really, I mean, as much as we talk about the order, if that doesn't happen, realistically, this item and other items appearing before different committees that are related to this item are all going to show up at the council at about the same time. And the city's not going to go out and purchase the land between votes. So we're not really going to have a situation where it's like, oh, shoot. So really, I mean, I get the concern. Yes, it would be it would complicate things if some items pass and some items don't, but we're going to know that essentially simultaneously what has happened. So that's not really going to put us in a situation where we're going to start taking actions that no longer makes sense because of the combination of actions. Correct.

Correct. And that's why we purposefully attempted to get all of the action items on the thrive, thrive and development to track to the same meeting. Thank you. Yep.

All right, anyone else? Are we ready to take a vote on this? No. All right. Okay, ready or not, all in favor, please signify by saying aye. Aye. All opposed? Nay. Okay, that passes three to one. That will go to council with a recommendation to approve. All right, we have no further action items. Any comments or questions on the two information items that we have? We have a final payment to the contract for the wastewater treatment plant sludge piping and digest or heat exchange. And we have the final payment for community development's interior offices.

Move to adjourn, Chair. Second.

All right, we have a motion and a second. All in favor, please signify by saying aye.

Aye.

We are adjourned. Thank you all.