City Council - Regular Meeting

Good afternoon. I will call to order the City of Apopka May 20, 2026 Commission meeting. I'd like to recognize Commissioner Ruth to introduce his pastor that's going to be providing the invocation and my former youth pastor as well.

A terrific pastor, Pastor Todd Lamphere. Thank you for your service.

Let's all stand, please.

And thank you all for your servant leadership. We greatly appreciate it. Father, we come before you with grateful hearts. Thank you for the privilege you've given us to live in this great country, the best in the world. We thank you, Father, that you've allowed us the privilege to live in this amazing city. We thank you for our leaders. We pray blessing over them tonight. We pray for wisdom, God, here in this room. You tell us in James chapter one that if we lack wisdom to ask you and you'll give it. So we're asking, Father, we pray, Father God, tonight as we open up this meeting, that first and foremost, that you would get honor and glory. We pray, God, that respect and honor would prevail in every comment made, in every discussion that's had today. So we commit this city to you. We commit our leadership to you. We thank you for them. We thank you for our police officers and our firefighters, those that protect us. May you. protect them. So we say thank you, Father. We give this evening to you. May we see everything through your eyes. May we listen to everything through your ears. But Father, most importantly, may we feel everything today through your heart. It's in the name of Jesus that I pray. Amen.

You may all be seated. Thank you so much for that, Pastor Todd. When I was in high school and middle school, he was my youth pastor, so... I'm sure he's got stories that I don't want him to tell. As always, we are running our meetings with decorum. I don't want to have to read the statement every time. It is in our agenda. If you want me to read it, I will. And if we need to remind residents of this, I'm happy to do it. But we ask that everyone just conduct themselves with respect and decorum.

And if there needs to be reminders of it, I'm happy to read that as we go on. Okay.

Thank you. We will move on to public comment period now.

Good evening, Mayor and Commissioners. My name is Dr. Jim Moyer. I'm the elected Orange Soil and Water Conservation District 2 supervisor. And as always, my presentation is mine and mine alone. And I'm speaking only for District 2. This presentation is implementing the D2C3 that I introduced two weeks ago. Okay. Am I doing something wrong here?

Do we have all the slides loaded up in there? Oh, there it is. Nice.

Why not, why not? I may be doing, am I doing something wrong?

Sorry about that. You can hit this if you'd like.

Okay. My apologies.

The arrows can work too.

Okay. My apologies, Mr. Mayor. As a reminder, the D2C3 water challenge is change, conserve, clean. Why should you participate? Well, the United States uses twice the global per person per day average. And about the same as China and India. And they're about four times more people. So they use half the global per day per person average. We use twice. Florida residential water usage now exceeds agricultural. And as you all know, we're historically an agricultural state. And Orange County, despite many conservation initiatives, our per person per day water usage is over twice the global average. And it's only almost entirely due to outside water irrigation. How do I waste water? How do I pollute our water bodies? Ask yourselves, please. According to wateruseitwisely.com, there's over 100 ways you can conserve. Please pick one and consider doing it. According to greencoast.org, there's only almost 16 different ways that you can prevent water pollution, including something as simple as picking up litter. Because in the United States, 60% of all the water pollution, I'm told, comes from litter. Take personal responsibility, look at your habits, and please change them. Thank you very much, and God bless all of you.

Thank you, Dr. Moyer.

Dr. Moyer, can you go back to the website that you presented, WaterWisely? WaterUseItWisely.com. Got it. Thank you, sir.

And there's nearly close to 200 on there. It's a lot.

Nice.

Thank you.

Thank you, sir. Michael McCreason, did he leave? He was here earlier.

Yeah.

Supervisor, Dr. Rowe?

a better evening now. We had a good evening earlier. I spoke to you about a resolution that I sent the Governor and the Secretary of Agriculture about buying local and growing local and making sure that we keep people employed and commerce in the past. And I've seen that change happen already. If you drive 441, you will see the state palm mixed in where they had the Medjool date palms. And I can see them there. I noticed them. But a lot of people won't. The city just paid over $10,000 each for nine palms. This bill that I just got tonight is $94,500 for nine palm trees that don't belong in the state of Florida. They're from California. And we could put cabbage palms in there for about $700 on the top end for an identical height tree locally, locally grown. And they're the state palm tree. They belong here. And if you densely pack them, instead of spreading them out 40 feet apart, you can grow some canopy. If you go down through a coey and through... Sweetwater, you will see some clustered palm trees. And they do provide a little canopy that way. But when you provide, when you stack them, and they use shorter trees too. But if you spread them out like you're seeing here, they're not providing any canopy. So your money is not being spent to help reduce heat. And if you noticed, if you look at O-Tree in Orange County, The mayor just planted on Arbor Day a tree, and they're going to be spending their money, their tree bank money, which they have much higher fees for offending nature by contractors and neighbors. And they're going to be using that money to put in hundreds and hundreds of trees in the near future. And it's called O-Tree. the letter O in tree, and you can go read about that. And he just announced it a couple weeks ago. So let's plant some trees, and let's think about everything we do on contracts, no matter what it is, alarms or anything else, to be native.

Thank you, Dr. Olmsted.

Okay. Give me.

Robert McAbee, 3603 Golden Gem Road. None of us are experts, and we should all know our own limitations, but we are blessed with the ability now with the internet to go and do research if we're not sure about something. If I want legal advice, I'll go to an attorney. When I go to an attorney, I'm looking for advice, not options. I find options do nothing but confuse me. So the question I have, commissioners, are you satisfied that when you have advice, it is advice, or are there too many options? How much is legal advice costing us in the city every year? I believe our contracted attorneys cost us more than 400,000 a year. And on top of that, we're spending money on other legal services. How many hours a week are we getting? How many hours a month are we getting for that 400K per year? I know the answer, but I'm not here to give you answers. You need to start looking at things. You need to start to decide if 400K is a suitable amount of money to pay when we don't get answers to questions that were asked back in December.

Thank you, Mr. McKinney.

and commissioners. I am, as usual, here just to remind you of our celebration that we're having for the unhoused and the needy that will be this Sunday. It'll be at Just Like Mamas. It'll be at 5.30. We are honoring Memorial Day. that day as we honor those who have died in service for our wonderful country. So we will have those kind of decorations. We will just continue to love on our unhoused. I continue to see positive changes in relationships. And employment, it seems like people are starting to employ some of the unhoused. And so that's always a great thing. But I'm also seeing a large surge of people coming in from Orlando. Okay, you see new faces. So continue to work. support the nonprofits that are helping the unhoused and the needy, not just me. It's a lot of us out here that are doing that. You can help me by going to Compassionate Apocca on Facebook. And I have two lists there, one list for hygiene items and another list for clothing. You can also help me by giving used clothes that you may have. A lot of the men are smaller men, and I am very low on men's clothing at this time. Actually, I have none. So if you do have things that you can clean your closet out that you used to could wear, but you wish you could wear that you're trying to get back to, just buy it again and let me have the smaller sizes at this time. I appreciate everything that you do. I am pleased at what I see from the public, not just from, and I believe it's a reflection upon the leadership that we have in our city, that people are just walking up to me and say, hey, you're the one that helps with the unhoused. I've got this, you know, and every day I'm running somewhere to go pick up something or drop off something. So I am pleased, I am busy, and I am glad that I have the support of the community. And I thank you very much. And may God continue to bless each and every one of you for your gifts and your love of kindness that you show to those who have less than we have. Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Street.

Good evening, Mayor. Good evening. Commissioners and everyone in the rightful place. I apologize for the yellow. We have some Naomi kids in the building unexpectedly. I want to say thank you to. Well, four of you up there who came out to Naomi Kids to our gratitude breakfast and all the city officials. It was amazing to see the city come together to support Naomi Kids. Naomi stands for never alone, overcoming many issues. And I want to thank the public for the continued support. to local residents. It's amazing how many people do not know that we have a little zoo right here in Apopka. And that's one of the field trips we will be taking the kids on. So I want to thank everyone for their support as we continue to support local businesses here in Apopka. This year we scheduled for seven field trips during the summer. And with the exception of one or six field trips is right here in Apopka, supporting Apopka businesses. Thank you for due to your support, the public support. So we appreciate it. And we want everyone to know, take a look. at what's going on in Apopka. There is a lot of businesses, a lot of places, unique places that you can go and enjoy. And please continue, even if it's not Naomi Kids, please continue to support our youth because they are going to be the ones, when we are too old to make decisions, they are going to be the ones up there making the decisions for us. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Nikki.

Thank you.

All right. Thank you for all that have spoken. Is there anybody else that maybe did not write a card that wants to speak? All right. We will close public comment period. We're going to approval of minutes. Did everyone have time to review them?

Yeah.

Any questions on there? Any edits or anything like that?

No.

If not, then I will ask for a motion to approve the meeting minutes of May 6th.

I'll second.

Motion by Commissioner Barron, second by Commissioner Anderson. All those in favor?

Aye.

All opposed? Motion carries unanimously. Agenda review. Mr. Williams.

No changes, Mayor.

Thank you, sir. Proclamations, I'm going to come down for that. We are going to start with our building safety month. Our building team has done an incredible job, making sure that our residents are safe, that any new businesses that are coming in place are well taken care of. And so I do want to thank their team and our proclamation. Whereas our city of Apopka is committed to recognizing that our growth and strength depends on the safety and essential role Our homes, commercial structures and infrastructure play both in everyday life and when disasters strike. And whereas our confidence in the resilience of these buildings that make up our community is achieved through the devotion of vigilant professionals, building safety and fire prevention officials, architects, engineers, builders, tradespeople, design professionals, laborers, plumbers, and others in the construction industry who work year-round to ensure the safe construction of buildings. And whereas these professionals are dedicated members of the International Code Council, a nonprofit that brings together local, state, territorial, tribal, and federal officials who are experts in high and the highest quality codes to ensure protection of the buildings where we live, learn, work, and play. And whereas these modern building codes include safeguards to protect the public from hazards such as hurricanes, tornadoes, wildland fires, floods. And whereas Building Safety Month is sponsored by the International Code Council to remind the public about the critical role of our community's largest unknown protectors of public safety and our local code officials. These individuals provide assurances that our buildings are safe and sustainable, which is essential to our prosperity. And whereas Built to Last is a theme for Building Safety Month 2026 to encourage all of us to get involved and raise awareness about building safety on a personal, local, and global scale. And whereas each year in observance of Building Safety Month, people all over the world are asked to consider the commitment to improve building safety, resilience, and economic investment, and to acknowledge the essential services provided by local and state building departments, fire prevention, bureaus, federal agencies, in protecting lives and property. Now, therefore, I, Nick Nesta, Mayor of the City of Apopka, do hereby proclaim the month of May 2026 as Building Safety Month. And I think we do have some building officials here. John Hanson. I was going to say, you were sitting up front before. Well, thank you for everything you guys did. Greatly appreciated. Do you want to say anything? No? Okay. Commissioners, can we come down and get a quick picture, please?

Do you have a speaker? Perfect.

Excellent. Thank you. So we also today is Emancipation Day for the state of Florida. So I wanted to make sure that we recognize that and read a proclamation. And we normally have an event for this, but due to transitions and some loss in communication things, we're going to be getting it back next year. So just in some capacity. So I'll read the proclamation. Whereas the city of Apopka recognizes that the observance of the end of slavery is part of the history and heritage of the United States and the state of Florida. And whereas as a governmental body, the city commission opposes and rejects any form of oppression and supports residents and organizations working to achieve genuine equality and protection of human rights for everyone. And whereas President Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation on September 22nd, 1862, announcing that on the first day of January, 1863, all persons held as slaves within any state or designated part of a state, the people whereof shall then be in rebellion against the United States, shall be then thenceforward and forever free. And whereas on June 19th, 1865, federal authorities arrived in Galveston, Texas and informed slaves that the Civil War had ended and that the enslaved were now free. And whereas June 19th or Juneteenth, has been commonly recognized and celebrated as the day that slavery ended in the United States, and whereas Emancipation Day in Florida is traditionally celebrated on May 20th, today, to recognize the emancipation of slaves as proclaimed by General Edward M. McCook from the steps of the Knott House in Tallahassee on May 20th, 1865. effectively ending slavery in the state of Florida 11 days after the end of the Civil War and two years after the Emancipation Proclamation was issued by President Abraham Lincoln. And whereas, as a result, many Floridians celebrate May 20th as Emancipation Day in Florida, and whereas in recognition of Florida's unique history with respect to the emancipation of slaves, the City Commission commemorates the announcement of the abolition of slavery and recognizes the significant contributions of African-Americans to this state and our nation. And whereas we gather today, May 20th, 2026, at City Commission to honor Emancipation Day. Now, therefore, I, Nick Nesta, Mayor of the City of Apopka, Florida, do hereby recognize May 20th as Florida Emancipation Day in the City of Apopka and encourage all citizens to recognize and honor this day in the City of Apopka. So thank you. Also, we did provide a Emancipation Proclamation, Emancipation Day Proclamation to former Commissioner and Reverend Smith, and he was able to read that today as well at an event he was hosting at his church, correct? Yes. So thank you for that. All right, we are moving on to the consent agenda. Is there anybody from the dais or from the public that would like to pull anything for specific questions or details on it? Not hearing any, ask for a motion to approve the six consent agenda items. So moved. Moved by Commissioner Ruth, seconded by Commissioner Anderson. All those in favor?

Aye.

All opposed? Motion carries unanimously. All right, moving on to business item, approval of the Seventh Amendment to the Memorandum of Agreement for conveyance of the Golden Gem Road property.

Mr. Semenovsky. Good evening, everyone. Good evening. Mayor, Commissioner, Vladimir Simonovsky, I'm the Public Works Director, and what we're bringing to you tonight is a request for approval of the Seventh Amendment to the Memorandum of Agreement by and between St. John's River Water Management District and the City of Apapa for the district conveyance of the Golden Gem Road property to the city. In summary, on May 15, 2009, the city of Apopka and the district entered into a memorandum of agreement whereby the district conveyed to the city the Golden Jam Road property. The conveyance was conditioned upon the city's commitment to design, permit, and construct the reclaimed water storage and act for recharge enhancement project on the property. Since the original execution of the MOA, the parties have approved six amendments to extend the project completion deadline. The MOA Amendments 1, number 1 through 6, were executed between April 2014 and September 2025. The current Amendment number 6 expiration date is May 29th of 2026, this year. And the MOA Amendment number 7 will have extension date from May 30th, 2026 to March 31st, 2027. Of course, MOA Amendment number 8 may be determined based on ongoing design recommendations. The City has encountered several challenges that have delayed the completion and operational implementation of the project, and in response the City is actively developing a series of technical and feasibility reports to guide the next phase of work. These reports are anticipated to be finalized by fall 2026. To allow adequate time for the City to complete its internal evaluation and for both parties to review the findings collaboratively, The proposed seven amendment will extend the project deadline, as we said earlier, to March 31st of 2027. This extension will support the development of a feasible and coordinated plan to fulfill the city's obligations under the MOA. The plan schedule for the design and construction of the East and West Pond facilities as of this moment looks like this. Conceptual design of the West Pond will be completed on May 22nd, 2026. Final construction plans of the West Pond will be completed at August 28th. Initiation of the East Pond design should happen on the same date, August 28th. Initiation of construction of the pump station should start on September 1st. The completion of the reconstruction of the West Pond is scheduled for February 28th of next year, 2027. The final construction plans of the East Pond on April 30th, 2027, and the completion of the reconstruction of the East Pond is to be determined, of course, based on the construction plans for the East Pond. THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT BOARD APPROVED THIS EXTENSION NUMBER 7 ON MAY 12, 2026, AND TONIGHT WE HAVE TWO REPRESENTATIVES FROM THE WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT, AND I JUST WOULD LIKE TO MENTION THEIR NAMES HERE. THEY'RE BEING PRESENT, KEMI DUI AND SUSAN DAVIS. And there's some plans that are part, of course, of the extension number seven. They're very similar to the ones that were approved in extension number six of the of the MOA, and mainly they're related on monthly status meetings with the district, which is ongoing process until March of 2027. Our next meeting is scheduled for next week, which is on Thursday, May 28th. We still have to do consumptive use permit modification application. That application was submitted on August 21st of 2025, and this is, of course, a continuous effort. The hydrologic and liner material evaluation, as I said earlier, is done by our consultant Tetra Tech, is in a pace to finish by the end of May 2026. The reclaimed water operating and water balance model analysis is also ongoing and will be finished, will be completed next month. And we have the south pond design, which is south of Snowden Road, just south of our wastewater treatment plant. That's an ongoing process, and the pump station design is a 90% completion. having all these listed, and these are the conditions of the MOA. The staff recommends approval of the seventh amendment to the MOA to ensure continued progress and alignment with the district expectations and the city's long-term water resource goals. And I'm available to answer any questions you may have. Thank you for that.

Commissioners, any questions?

So just a comment. It's that I, one of the things I brought to my agenda review is that this has been like ongoing for since I've actually been in the commission. And how sure are you with these timeframes? Because it's like extension number seven. And it's almost like everything always starts with like, we're going to do this. And there's no completion of really much of anything.

So. Most of these conditions were presented back in September of last year. I believe it was September 29th. Because the expiration date for the previous amendment, number five, was at the end of the month.

So from September last year to now, what have we done?

So what have we done? We've already started the consumptive use permit. And, of course, most of the data is already submitted. And the district is evaluating our data now. The hydrologic and liner material evaluation, that's basically the report that will be provided on Friday, this coming Friday, by our consultant Tetra Tech. And they will represent the final design of the smaller pond, which is the west pond. We have the reclaimed water operating and water balance model analysis that is pretty much at a completion. We're just working on the final data on that, and that will be completed next month. So most of them already completed, including the south pond that is already at 90% completion and requires probably another month or two. of before final release. So most of that data is technically completed, what was originally asked from us with the extension number six of the MOA. Now we just have to include them because they're pretty much at the final stage and the expiration of the amendment is at the end of this month. So as we move forward, we're just, the district decided to add these same conditions so we can move on to construction. And again, the design, as I showed on the previous slide, the final construction plans of the West Pond will be ready at the end of August. And our anticipation is to start construction on the West Pond at the beginning of September.

And we're confident in this timeframe?

Yes.

Okay. That's it. Thank you.

Thank you. Anybody else? Any other Commissioner have any questions?

Commissioner Barron. So thank you, Mr. Valdemar, for sharing that information. Thank you for that. So my question is how much has this cost us thus far and how much will we still need?

So if we go task by task, completion of all that, of all the ongoing efforts that we have right now, I would say it's probably close to a million, including the redesign. And the objective is now to, once we start with the, with the construction of the pump station, there will be approximately $12.5 million. That is the cost estimate. That wasn't part of the specific conditions because it wasn't constructed previously, right? This is a new addition that was, of course, due to the circumstances that we had there that didn't proceed on time. So technically, the only portion that is being mitigated right now is the liner at the two ponds, at the west pond and the east pond. And we anticipate right now if, Just replacing the liner alone with any... We don't have any concrete data for now, but I would say between $2.5 to $3 million just to replace the liner and to regrade the site without any additional work on it. So technically, it could be more than that, and most likely will be.

Okay. And so you mentioned that there is an issue just before that. You mentioned that there was an issue. What was that issue?

That was the... that was the event that happened i believe sometime in january or january of 2024. okay mr mckinney is here to give the exact date yeah so january 3rd beginning of january of 2024. okay that of course delayed some of the progress on the overall project for the entire facility. And again, these are all different elements of the overall facility expansion there. And the pump station was not part of that when that incident happened. It's coming as the project progresses to make the facility fully operational.

And I'll piggyback with what Commissioner Anderson asked. Will it be on time? This is a priority.

We have moved so far, pretty much we're coming to the end of all the commitments we have made on analyzing the situation there and what needs to be done to make the facility operational. So we feel strongly that this time we're going to be on time.

And my next question is, did you put that in your budget?

So yes, so what we have in the budget right now is the $2 million for the replacement of the liner, which is coming from the operating fund, and we have the $12.5 million for the new pump station that is also budgeted through the capital impact fee in the capital improvement program.

Okay. All right. Thank you. That's all I had.

Thank you. Any other commercial questions? Just one more question. So the, how much did we budget last, budget cycle for this pond?

Two million.

Two million. Have we used that two million already?

We haven't used the two million for the construction. So we haven't. Because we haven't started any construction there, yes.

So we still, so we have additional two million that will be carried forward, the two million from the last budget cycle? Correct.

And 12.5 million. 12.5.

Yes. So 12.5 plus the two million to carry forward?

Plus the two million, correct.

Okay, perfect. Thank you.

Any other questions? We will open it up to public comment. And any public, please?

Albert McKamey, 3603 Golden Shem Road. What we aren't addressing is the elephant in the room. Back in May of 2024, Devo Saram came here and asked for $950,000. Within that, it was to do three things. Provide aquadams, which I said we never needed, we didn't need. It was to plug a home, which was just hundreds of dollars. It wasn't a big event. The main thing that we needed to do before we started any work was install an interceptor trench. We should have had drainage on that site long before. There were signs that there were problems a year before the collapse of the pond in that documentation today I gave it to you. So there's no doubt in my mind, I'm 100% certain that it was negligence and incompetence that contributed to the collapse. We didn't have drainage in. If you look at those pictures, all around the liner you'll see brown stains. That's where water is ingressing over and under the liner. If you look carefully, you will see erosion under the liner. That's what caused the seams to burst. Those seams had a limited capacity of 100 PSI. Maximum test was, I think, 300. It's just like the skin of a drum. Without the ground underneath it, it sinks and the seams crack. So the problems we have is that the liners have to come out before we make any decisions. In those photographs that I've given you, you'll see what Devo described as volcanoes. Well, I would say that some people describe them as whales and some people describe them as hippos. What they tell you is water ingressed underneath the liner. When you get saturated substrate underneath a liner, the substrate then is no longer capable of carrying the loads that it would be as dry. It's called soil arching. All you have to do is go on to AI and look at the effect of saturated substrate under a liner and you'll find it no longer carries load. As long as we're replacing the liner, I believe we have some chance of being able to do something. What I don't know is if the substrate that's underneath is ever going to be fit to carry load. Because until you do ultrasonic testing or some sort of testing, I don't know. But there's other things that I don't have time to discuss with you today that I think concern public safety. There's an area on the berm on the north easterly side and in the inside of the pond, which show significant problems could arise. There could be a collapse on the easterly berm, similar to what happened on the westerly berm, in which case you would have 300 million gallons of water cascading down onto the land below. So there's a number of things that we really need to look clearly, and I don't think we can do it in the time constraints. I think it's pie in the sky.

Thank you, Mr. McKinney. Any other public comment?

One thing before we start doing a project like this, no matter what it is, is we have to look at the hydrology and all the research that's been done over the centuries. We have a karst map, for one thing, and that karst map is right on the APOPCA website. It's new up there. But the U.S. Department of Agriculture has had it all along. I know I don't want something dug like that at my home because I'm over a huge karst area. The fact that that area is right there at a dangerous area, maybe they should have done some consideration before digging it there. If we go to put any more in, we really have to look, like I mentioned earlier, about the upcoming. project GIS with the Audubon Society, Audubon, Florida, regarding their new GIS system to look at wetlands is it has all the geography out there for these properties. And we really need to consider where we're putting things like this before we put them down. And somebody said that they were allowed to dig as deep as they wanted to. Well, if they would have looked at the geology ahead of time, then they would have, might have considered not doing it there or not doing it to the depth they did.

Thank you, Dr. Olmsted. Any other public comment? We're going to close public comment then. Any final comments from the commissioners at all? I appreciate the questions and thank you for that. I know staff has been working very diligently on this. And I want to say thank you to the St. John's River Water Management District for their patience with us throughout this process. I know it's been a little frustrating as this specific project is part of a much larger regional project. It doesn't just impact city of Apopka residents. It impacts many other local municipalities as well. And that's why this is so important for St. John's and why they're giving us such tight time constraints is so that we get it done. And I can appreciate that. It helps us stay to it and no delays. So as we start to progress and plans come into place, we'll share the information with the commissioners so that you're immediately updated and we'll share with the public as well. Unfiltered so that you have exactly what it is. I believe this Friday it's listed on here. We are getting the conceptual design. Yes, this Friday. So I'm happy to make sure that gets out to everybody and it's raw form, no editing, no nothing, so that you can see exactly what it is. Again, we've got to start seeing progress on this, and that's what St. John's is desperately needing from us. And not just progress talking, but actually getting it done. So with our third-party vendor that did the studies on this, we feel confident moving forward, or more so the staff feel confident moving forward, that we're going to be able to get this done in this timeline and Really, to show St. John's that we're serious about this, we have to start spending money on this, and that's what we're going to be doing. So with that, if there's no additional questions, I will ask for a motion to approve the Seventh Amendment to the Memorandum of Agreement for Conveyance of the Golden Gem Road property. So moved. Moved by Commissioner Barron.

Seconded.

Second by Vice Mayor Velazquez. All those in favor?

Aye.

All opposed? Motion moves approved unanimously. Thank you for that. We'll move on to the Schiller Park Subdivision Major Development Plan. Before we take a deep dive in that, Attorney Shepard, if you can, this, I'm seeing it's quasi-judicial, if you can provide a quick, high level of what quasi-judicial means for us as an elected body.

Absolutely, Mayor. The quasi-judicial action by the legislative body, in this case, the commission, is one in which you are applying the code to the facts presented. You are not making up as you go, and it is not based on opinion about how you feel about any particular topic. It is simply about whether the applicant, in this case, Sheila Oaks, has proven that they meet the requirements of our code to get their, in this case, master development plan approved. So in that regard, you will hear from staff. They will make a report and tell you what they believe. You may hear from other experts. I do not know. You may hear from members of the public who themselves are experts. But if they are, they need to state what they're expert in. And if there is conflicting, competent, substantial evidence, you can choose to believe whichever evidence you want. But understand your decision has to be based on evidence. And for every decision to deny, and it's not just this one, it's all of them. we have to write a letter that says, why did it get denied? And that basis has to be based on a lack of evidence or a lack of proof. That's it.

Thank you for that. Mr. Son. Excuse me, doctor. That was my mistake. I am very sorry. Please.

Good evening, Mayor and Commissioners. This is Dr. Junsun Planner at the Community Development Department. The applicant has requested approval of a major development plan for residential subdivision of 115 single-family lots called Shearlor Park. The property is located at 1920 Schiller Avenue. The total size of the properties is about 40 acre and the property is currently vacant. The property was annexed in the city in July, 2025, changed its feature land use to residential low and rezoned to RTF, residential to family in November, 2025. The proposed plan is a single family residential subdivision. with 115 residential lots with open spaces. And the density of the development is 2.86 dwelling units per acre. It includes 104 lots of minimum 60 feet width and 11 lots of minimum 80 feet width. The proposed setback are minimum front yard of 25 feet, minimum side yard of 7.5 feet, and minimum rear yard of 20 feet, and minimum corner side yard of 25 feet per the requirements of land development code section 3.3.6. The provided open space is about 10.6 acre. It is about 26% of the property. The required open space is 20% per LDC section 5.4.4. This open space includes eight foot wide gravel jogging trail of 0.5 mile loop. The subdivision provides two access points from Schiller Avenue. The primary access is not gated and secondary access is emergency access and it is gated. The access points are connected with internal loop consisting of two looped blocks. The landscape buffer are provided around the perimeter of the subdivision and it is consistent with the requirements in LDC section 5.2. The open space includes two main park area. One of the open space is provided with a bench and the other is centered around the stone water pond and this area is intended to serve as a naturalistic active recreation area for a jogging trail. The DRC has recommended approval on March 4th and at the Planning Commission meeting on April 14th, Planning Commission unanimously recommended approval of the Schiller Park Major Development Plan. The recommended motion is approving the Schiller Park Major Development Plan and just want to point out that approval of this MDP does not authorize the development. Staff and applicant are available for any questions.

Thank you for that. Does the applicant have any presentation they'd like to do? Please. Good evening.

Mayor, Madam Vice Mayor and Commissioners, my name is Jonathan Hules and I'm with the Lowndes Law Firm 215 North Eola Drive. I just have a short presentation just to supplement the materials that Dr. Sun has provided and to provide a little bit more background because... Can you bring the mic?

Yeah, I'm sorry. Sure.

Sorry.

Mr. Boone, can you set a 15-minute timer?

Yeah, I shouldn't need anything more than that.

We all like to talk sometimes. This isn't my presentation. We have another one on there.

So this this property and this project has taken about the longest process you can take in the city to get to this point, because when it started, it was actually an incorporated county. It did have entitlements at that point to be developed as a low density residential subdivision based on informal meetings with the county and city staff at that time. It was determined it made more sense to have this property be reviewed, approved, and potentially developed through the city's processes because it was within an enclave. And there is state policy that states that when possible, enclaves should be either eliminated or reduced in size. So by virtue of that, there was a decision made to seek the approval from the city to annex this property into the city. So as was due all development processes in the city, it starts with a community meeting that's mandated by your code. That community meeting was conducted over a year ago in April of 2025. It was done virtually. We had about 15 to 20 people from the community attend that meeting. There was a presentation that was made by the applicant team. And as part of that presentation, this plan that's shown here was presented. And even though we were just at the annexation stage, we also knew we needed a comp plan amendment and rezoning. And while those were just map changes, we wanted to provide as much detail as possible. So we included this, what was at that time a conceptual plan showing the project. And as I'll go through these slides, you'll see it is very similar to the major development plan that's now before you. From that period forward, we went ahead and conducted, submitted an annexation application. And that culminated with public hearings before this board in which the city council annexed the property by unanimous vote into the city. As part of that presentation, I pulled this from my presentation at that time, we also included this site plan. It's not necessary for the annexation stage because that's simply a decision by the city council whether to take the property into the city or not. There are criteria for that. unrelated to the site plan, but we wanted to be transparent with what the proposed project was going to look like if ultimately taken into the city and taken through the city's development processes. And we followed that with processing a comprehensive plan amendment and a rezoning application to assign the property city designations under both the comp plan amendment, city comp plan and the city zoning. And once again, we showed a similar conceptual site plan at that time of what the property was going to look like. This is actually taken from my presentation during those public hearings. And even though that was just the map change where you were changing the color on the map, this detail did not need to be provided but being transparent and wanted to provide as much information the public and this council, this conceptual plan was included. Both of those applications were reviewed and approved by a unanimous vote. And from there we've been at it with the major development plan, which is the site plan phase of the development approval process. This is an excerpt taken from the major development plan. It's flipped on its side as were all those other images because of the geometry of the site. North is actually to left of page. But as you will see, the major development plan is very consistent with those conceptual plans that have been shown to and accompanied all of the community meeting and all of the development applications that had followed. It's 115 homes, and that equates to about 2.86 dwelling units an acre. That's far below what would have been allowed under the county's entitlements and far below what's allowed under the city's zoning code, technically speaking. As was mentioned, that is... broken up into two different size lots. You have 60 by 120 foot lots and 80 by 120 foot lots. The 80 by 120 are located to the north on the north perimeter of the property, and that matches the same size of lot that is located to the northern subdivision, where you then have 60 foot lots in the remainder, which are larger than the subdivision, the lots in the subdivision that are located south that is existing today in the city. So as was mentioned, this is at the major development plan stage. The land development code sets forth what the review criteria for the site plan is. This is included in your staff report, but I just wanted to present it once more. These are all the criteria that staff has to apply and has to find that have been met. And these include such things as that the proposed development uses, are consistent and comply with the applicable zoning district and use regulations and that all applicable standards in the the city's land development code including the development standards in article five and environmental standards are six are met um and the remaining uh um criteria that are set forth here. Your staff report makes those findings. It serves as confidential evidence for the approval of this major development plan, and we concur with that staff recommendation, and we're happy to answer any questions we might have. I failed to mention also with me in attendance today is Mark Steli, who is the project engineer and does most of the work here because, as we said, this is a a site plan, a very technical exercise based on review and getting it to this point before you. So with that, happy to answer any questions and thank you.

Thank you.

Want to say that I did meet with Mr. Jonathan and Mr. Steve. I'm just going to give the first names. And Sammy, Mr. Sammy. I met with them on Monday. We went over the site plan. There were some questions, and you're right, this has been going, I remember this from, what, almost three years, four years? Is it three years already?

It's been over a year.

The ones I had at home, I mean, this was the site plan that you, the conceptual plan that you had presented when you first introduced it.

Correct, in April.

Pretty much nothing has changed, just whatever the staff asked you to do. I know that today you had, earlier today you had the DRC, and I did ask some questions of the staff, because I did tune in this morning. The only thing I kind of found interesting was when we spoke on Monday, it's 115 lots. Am I correct? But there was some comment made that you had agreed to 109 lots. Is that correct? Okay.

You want us to walk them through it? So yes, and just for context, so this is not the last step in the development approval process. No, I know this is. The DRC this morning was on the construction site plan, which is the engineer drawings that follows this. Of course, this process has to be approved first before the construction site plan. I'm going to ask Mr. Steli to come up and just talk briefly about that reduction. That's not reflected on this plan or it does not need to be.

So the question I had asked the staff was, because I listened to the whole presentation this morning on the DRC. And so I was listening to the discussion and some of the things that our Dale Smith had asked of you and you had agreed to. So I wrote them kind of all down. So I. My question was, does the construction plan impact this plan? And I was told it does not. that the construction plan is completely separate and this one is just a major site development plan. And that was the only issue that I had because I listened to the DRC this morning.

Yeah, you can't go the other way. You can't get a site plan approved for 115 homes and then take a construction site plan on the next step with more or a small. You cannot reduce a standard that's been set in the site plan.

Any other questions?

I do. So my concern with this project is the infrastructure liability considerations that are in place, especially the karst that's happening in that area. Just for context, it's a unique landscaping created when the water dissolves the bedrock, limestone area. And I know that geotech has been invited to look at the property and assess it. So I, too, was watching the DRC this morning, and there seems to be some uncertainty with the property in terms of what's going to be city, what's going to be HOA. And I know that that area right now, the city's already experiencing an $800,000 roadway reconstruction project that is experiencing. So My question is, How are we going to make sure that the city is not liable for the karst that's happening currently in this property?

Sure.

Making sure that moving forward, the project that's being constructed is going to be, first of all, that the homeowners are aware that there's a karst under their property and there's a possibility of sinkhole. Not that there's that there in terms of percentage-wise, but we want to make sure that's disclosed.

Sure. So a couple of things and good question and good comment, Commissioner Barron. Your staff is on it. And so there's already been a geotechnical investigation conducted on the property as part of this site plan that found no karst and it found that. typical construction methods can be utilized in the building of this subdivision, this community. Staff, because of that recent experience in the vicinity of dealing with a road that has some subsidence, determined that they would want additional investigation to be conducted on this property as part of the construction site planning, which is the engineering exercise. And so we crafted a condition that allows for that additional investigation to be made at the more technical side, which is the engineering plans. And if those, and two things, staff gets to determine the scope of that utilizing, their own geologist as an expert of where and how many holes to poke to look for karst. No karst was found as part of that initial geotech exercise, but there's going to be more. If there's any karst or any other anomaly that says, hey, we can't use typical construction methods in building this community, then there's a condition in the major development plan that shifts that infrastructure from being public, which typically when a property is subdivided, the roads and the utilities are public, to private. So it treats it more like a gated community. Gated communities are opposite where the roads behind the gate are always private. And that's a condition that's now in this major development plan. So there's going to be additional assessment. There has been a finding in your staff report that the geotechnical, investigation that has taken place so far is sufficient and has been deemed sufficient by staff, by public work staff, but this added condition is just an extra layer of protection. Likely, I'm not going to put words in staff's mouth, but born out of that experience they're having with that other subdivision. I'll tell you, most of the city, for better or for worse, has a karst designation on it. And so this is not uncommon of a condition. It's certainly not peculiar just to this property or this area of the city. But I think because of that recent experience that CitySaf has, you're going to see more scrutiny put on how much studies are going to be conducted. Quite frankly, too, this additional study would have already been conducted. The timing of the comment was later than what's typical in the development process. And so we collaborated and we crafted one that I think works both for the city and works for the applicant team, the project team to continue moving forward in the process.

Okay. And I just want to just quote what got on our agenda, if you will. So it just says, this represents a significant municipal liability and demonstrates the need for caution when considering city ownership of new infrastructure within mapped car regions. So I just want to make sure that, we as a city is protected in terms of this project. So I just want to make sure that we are clear in terms of who's going to do what on the property because I know there's uncertainty as to what, if it's going to be HOA, if it's going to be city. I just want that to be a little bit more defined and clarified for me in order for me to move forward with that.

I appreciate your comments. That is something that's not a criteria for this, what's before you today, which is the major site plan. It's been made a condition of the construction site plan, and it's an either or. It's either the geotechnical studies are conducted and shows there's no karst anywhere, and it would be a very rigorous assessment. And if that's the case, then the The project remains public infrastructure as every subdivision in the city has been in the past and will be in the future. If there is any karst, I'm sure it will be further investigated. But if the project were to move forward and it was something that could be dealt with, which there are engineering techniques to deal with karst conditions, it's always individualistic. Then at that point, that infrastructure would be shifted over to a private responsibility of an HOA. And so the conditions there, there's no ambiguity. It's either one of those two paths.

Okay.

Thank you. Any other questions from the Commission?

No. That was one of my concerns was the geotech studies. But staff kind of assured me, we kind of went over that. So I'm confident that staff has actually reviewed it. And I'm confident to move forward with it. That's all.

Thank you. Any other questions? All right. Let's go to public comment. Anybody in the public would like to speak?

Okay, this is a rare moment for me to come up and talk besides Naomi Kitts. But with this new, I'm not against per se the development of that new, but what I want you guys to take a look at and consider before moving forward, the location where that is being proposed. Two issues there. Between Cleveland to Sheila Oaks, every time it rains, it already floods. It floods really bad there. Add in more traffic and more houses. That's a two-lane road that already has, over the recent years, and I've been in that area for the last... 21 years. So I've seen the changes on that street. With the opening of the 414 extension, we have added traffic already going on to and from the 414 coming to downtown Apopka. Another issue, the church That's right there. They're doing good things for the community. However, every Wednesday, if you pass there from after 6 p.m., there's a backup from the church all the way past, sometimes past Cleveland of vehicles lined up waiting to get in to receive services. Today, I passed there after 6 p.m. It was backed up. It made it difficult for vehicles traveling southbound to get around those cars, even though they're doing the best they can. They parked on the side, but there is limited space for them. So if we're going to add another 115 homes, we have to expect at least... one driver per household. So, and then if you have two family, two adults in the house, plus possibly adult children, because with the cost of everything, we have more adult kids still living home, not able to afford their own. We're talking, A lot more traffic in Tulane, so I want you guys to consider the area. It's not against developing, but unless you guys plan on putting a flyover like Maitland did or some widening the road, it's kind of hard because the way it is, it doesn't have much room. to widen the road. But if you guys can take a look and see, first address the flooding issue and some other way to get around the issues that we already have in that area. Thank you.

Thank you for your comment. Anybody else?

I was impressed with the thoroughness of the report. It goes into all the neighboring properties and the history of all the adjoining areas. It is just the most thorough one I've seen of any report. Looking at the Karst report, the area of the exact property looks like it doesn't have it, that the property above it has Karst. And it's very simple for everybody to, and the people from the departments back here, to pull it up right on their phone. There's no reason why somebody can't answer questions right while we're in a meeting. You know, it's so simple. But my greatest concern, or only concern that I've seen so far, because the numbers were given about traffic and everything, my concern was the foliage, trees, the canopy. I did not see very much canopy in these pictures.

I want you to know I did mention that to them, and I did mention you.

Dr. O is going to say something.

I did tell them. I said we have an environmentalist, Dr. O, who will, you know, look at this and look at the landscaping.

And the canopy is so important to keep the heat down and to hold the soil in place and to build the environment. And so to get canopy over the entire property and all the trees, all the homes is so important. But overall, I felt that the presentation and the materials in the packet was excellent.

Thank you for your comments. Anybody else? All right. We will close public comment on this. Any other final questions, comments from the Commission? All right.

Well, my understanding is that this is just a major development plan. It still has a couple of stages. And from the DRC this morning, I understand there's a lot more that the applicant needs to satisfy. So this is just going to allow them to go into the next phase of this development.

I want to ask one question. Sure.

And I looked over. Sam, can you hear me?

One of the reasons I didn't have much to say to the developers, you know, you put together a fantastic product. It's worthy of your time and effort. My biggest concerns are... the infrastructure to support it. You know, I've turned all my attention in that direction. I'm going to stay out of the weeds and try to keep it professional. I think we can do better as a staff and a council. You know, it getting to this point is I've asked a bunch of questions and I get no answers. I'm handcuffed with what I can and can't say. None of them involve you. In the future, I'm going to look for bigger green space. Our LDC, you're compliant with it. I'm going to be looking to make improvements in that, going bigger. I want to encourage us as staff to start bringing back our tree bank. I want to make sure that we're offsetting, you know, the removal of those trees to other areas. I got a lot of concerns in the flooding. Being a lifetime Popkin, the people that live in the area, I empathize for them. The water plant that services that area was put together in the early 1900s, or the 1990s. It was built by Sheila subdivision, that's before Royal Oaks. That's what's going to be supplying your water. The comments I made earlier, I live on this side over to the Grossenbacher plant, but that plant also serves this. The three-foot sprinkler disbursement, that's not a joke. That's for real. We're going to add another 60,000 gallons a day's use to that consumption, which I'm getting in the weeds. I just want you to, my concerns are outside of y'all. So I don't want you to take my reasons for not meeting with you personal because I like your product. I think we could just do better because eventually that is going to get built out and the infrastructure that there is not going to be able to support it. And when that happens, they're going to be lined up here and they're going to be giving it to us. And I'm going to be taking that, but I'm encouraging staff to do better. So I'm going to leave my attention in that direction.

Thank you. Anything else? Then we will look for a motion to approve the major development plan for the Sheeler Park subdivision.

So moved.

Moved by Commissioner Anderson. Second. Second by Vice Mayor Velazquez. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. All opposed? Me. Commissioner Barron. So the motion carries four to one with Commissioner Barron in opposition. Okay. All right. I don't think we have any public hearing ordinances or resolutions. We will move on, and hopefully I'll get all this in order this meeting. Yes, exactly. City Administrator's Report. Nothing to report tonight, Mayor. Thank you, sir. City Attorney's Report. Happily nothing to report tonight. Thank you, sir. City Commissioner's Report. We will start with Commissioner Ruth. All right, Commissioner Velazquez.

Vice Mayor Velazquez. Other than that, again, thank you for reading the Proclamation for Emancipation. And I see that Commissioner Smith is here. I actually tuned in live when you read it over at the Hope Community this afternoon. So thank you for doing that on our behalf. And I just want to say Monday is Memorial Day. And as we do every... Every Memorial Day, we meet at the cemetery and we do a whole ceremony there to honor the veterans that are no longer with us. And that's pretty much it. I just want to say thank you. even though it was a very long day on May 13th. He did bring a lot of cupcakes and there was someone staring at the cupcakes and I said to her, you should have taken a cupcake. I survived with a pack of six cupcakes when I went home. But thank you for bringing the cupcakes. I thought that was a very nice gesture. And last week I did attend the Florida League of Cities leadership class for two days on May 14th and May 15th. And that was very interesting. We had a great panel from it. There was a book that was given to all the commissioners. And one of the things that was kind of the main subject about this leadership committee was the participation and how we should connect with our public and how to handle sometimes some of the public who's unhappy with us. They talked about transparency, integrity, and sometimes we think we're the only city that faces challenges. But I will tell you that Listening to other cities, they are all facing the same issues with their growth and the frustration that they, you know, their residents have with infrastructure, with water, with sewage. I mean, it was something that we all talked about at this leadership class, and it was very informational. Got to share a lot of the, you know, how are the cities doing? dealing with it and um so it was very interesting and out of it was a a book by if anybody knows who lydia gardner was um she was um i forget what her title was but it was her daughter who was the main speaker betsy gardner and what was i forget what lydia gard is Clark, of course. Well, her daughter wrote a book, Betsy Gardner, and it's a great book. So I'm going to bring it to the city hall and let the mayor, our new mayor, read it. I would love that.

Absolutely.

Anything else?

No, nothing for me. Thank you. Commissioner Anderson.

So I had the pleasure of attending my first Metro Plan Orlando board meeting. And one of the things that I want to do, and I think it's important that we all do, when we all go to different, sit on different boards, we come in and kind of share with the council and also with the community kind of what we got from that. So during the, and I'll try to make it very, very short. So a quick synopsis of kind of what transpired during the meeting. We had, my computer just did something crazy on me. So Secretary John Tyler reported with FDOT about the Target Zero policy, which focuses on engineering, education, and outreach. He also announced the launch of the Smart Driving College Challenge in Orange County. It actually rewards college students for safe driving behaviors. And I want to kind of go deep into that a little bit. So give me about two minutes, two seconds. Let me go in between two. So the Smart Driving College Challenge with DTO is a regional traffic safety and education initiative connected to Drive Safe Central Florida and Central Florida Expressway Authority. The program generally focuses on promoting safe driving habits among college students safe belt safety, impaired driving prevention, speed reduction. And one of the cool thing about it is it actually rewards students for safe driving. And I know the, I wanna say that Orange County Currently, this program is in two schools, and they're looking to launch it in other schools. So I'm probably going to get with Brantley and also with one of our, probably with Melissa, to see about making sure that this program is in all the schools, because it's very effective from my understanding. In addition to that, there are some updates with the Central Florida Vision Zero and also the Advanced Air Mobility Update. And what's interesting about that is, I'll just give a quick synopsis of kind of what that is, which is, second. I don't want to read all of this, so. So the advanced air mobility is, so what they're looking to, they're looking for Central Florida to be the hub that kind of launches, and it's been going on, I want to say probably now for a few years now. And what it is, is electric aircraft, air taxis, drones, and they understand that we can't really build more land, right? So we have to find a way to be more effective with transportation because of the cost of roads and also the idea that we can't build more land, right? And what's interesting about this initiative is that we are going to probably be on the innovative side here in Central Florida. So currently involved is the Federal Aviation Administration, NASA, Greater Orlando Aviation Authority, Central Florida Expressway Authority. One of the things that it will assist us with is with the tourism traffic. rapid population growth um there's a lot of different technology partners so please be on the lookout for more information uh but we are definitely definitely in central florida we're going to be probably the hub that's going to be launching that so that's all i have it's awesome thank you so much for that and at any time if you want to do any type of presentation we can put it on here if you want okay no no good i do but i just yeah i do okay no thank you so much for that commissioner barron Oh, and Happy Emancipation Day. Sorry, that's important. Thank you.

I was just going to say that. Happy Emancipation Day. My recommendation is for next year, consider reading it on the City Hall steps.

I'd love that. We've done it previously, and there was some... planning miscommunications, I will call it. So we'll fix that.

We can make it an event. Yes. I think it's important. Thank you, Commissioner Smith, for being here as well. So... I'll tell you what, our Eagle Scouts have been busy. So we have a ribbon cutting on Saturday for the Doctors Dog Park. And then there's one next Saturday at the museum for their flagpole dedication. So that's going to be fun. I'm going to look forward to seeing that. There was an issue that was, well, let me just go back. There were several homeowners from Water's Edge that emailed us. Thank you, Val, and your team for getting that four-way stop signed up. rapidly because that was helpful in making sure that those residents in that area were safe. So I appreciate that. So kudos. And there was a concern in terms of a lift station on 1350 Sheeler Avenue. The lift station apparently had been beeping for a couple weeks now. And so I I recommended, and it was uncertain whether it was a city lift station or a county lift station, so I had recommended to use the C-Click fix. Oh, Glenn, do you have, Mr. Brooks, do you have information?

Yes, yes.

Okay, please share.

It's been a slow news day today for Channel 2 News. I see they put it out. Oh, I didn't know that. It's not the city's lift station. It is private-owned, and it was beef and stuff. And I see they even put it out there as a new city of Apopka, but it was not ours. It's privately owned. We did make contact with the private owner, and they are working on it.

All right. So moving forward, how can residents handle that? I recommended that putting it onto the C-CLIC fix as well as the 311 because we weren't sure, again, whether it was city or county. But moving forward for the residents that are listening and are in the chamber, what should we do moving forward?

I would say use the C-CLIC. Yes, and also, as always, to call public services. But yes, if you would just do that, either way, we would. we will get to it. All right. Sounds great.

And see, click fix. Even if it's not ours and we find that out, we'll reach out to Orange County and get them involved.

Yes. Okay.

I knew they said they'd reached out to a commissioner too. So I didn't know which one of you it was. It was you. Okay.

That's okay. I totally threw myself out there, but I want to make sure that again, when I get emailed by my constituents that I'm representing them here on the dais. So I appreciate that. Thank you for handling that for me. And finally, um, Just like what Commissioner Velazquez said, happy Memorial Day. I look forward to participating in the event on Monday. And thank you for all that have served. And if you've had a family member that have served and is no longer with us, my sincere apologies. And so, yeah, that's all I got.

Thank you. It's on Mayor's Report now. And if you can imagine... I have a lot to go over. I actually don't. I just want to say thank you to staff. Thank you for all the time you guys have spent with me. You guys have been truly supportive. We're doing this internal culture shift, and you guys have been on board the whole time. So thank you for it. I know it's been uncomfortable. It's going to continue to be a little uncomfortable, but we're doing it. So I want to say thank you to them. Thank you to former Commissioner Smith for being in the chamber as well. I appreciate the continued show up. It showed a lot. So thank you for that. And that's it. So have a great evening, everyone. Thank you.

Thank you, everyone.