Planning and Zoning - Regular Meeting

I now call to order the meeting of the planning and zoning commission for the city of Apache Junction. Today's date is June 24th, 2025 and the time is 700 p.m. Can we please stand for the pledge of allegiance? I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Rudy, can I get a roll call, please? Chairman Hansie here. Vice Chair Barker here. Commissioner Gage here. Commissioner Star here. Commissioner Mikeland here. Commissioner Ken, we have five present, uh, one absent, and we have had one resignation, chairman, so we do have a quarum. Thank you, Rudy. Do we have a motion to approve the agenda and minutes? Mr. Chair, Commissioner Barker, I move that the Planning and Zoning Commission accept the agenda as presented and approve the minutes from the June 10th, 2025 special meeting. Do we have a second? Second. Rudy, I have a motion in a second. Can I get a roll call, please? Commissioner Mikeland, yes. Commissioner Star, here. Yes. Commissioner Gage, yes. Vice Chair Barker, yes. Chairman Nanchie, yes. So move, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Rudy. All right. There are three public hearings this evening. Major case plan amendment case P-25-10-GPA to amend the general plan land use map and reasonzoning by plan development. Then case P-25-11-PZ

to reszone parcel 102-20-00008A [Music] and 102-20- 008 C. In case P-25-85-CUP, a conditional use permit for an event center and venue on parcel 1000-25-043E. [Music] Nick, you're doing these? I'm doing both of them. Thank you, Commission. Thank you, Chair Man. I'm Nick Lewitch, senior planner for the city of Apache Junction. And tonight I'll start first with the presentation of the major general plan amendment and reszoning cases P2510 GPA and P2511PZ. It's two uh public hearing items because there's the two sections, the major general plan amendment and the reasoning, but they're essentially one case. So I'll just have the one presentation here. So, as noted, this is the second public hearing for this because this is a major general plan amendment because it is a reszoning over 10 acres. It it required two public hearings. The first of which was held on June 10th, just two weeks ago at the Superstition Fire and Medical District boardroom. And then here tonight, we will have the um the vote on the recommendation. So, Sun Construction is requesting a reszoning of the 36.6 6 acres at the northwest corner of Auto Center Drive and Cactus Road. This is just west of Tomahawk, just south of the US60. And their plan is to develop a light manufacturing facility, an administrative training facility to support their construction and contracting work. They do construction and contracting work all over the country. And this would be a manufacturing facility that supports that that uh and and they plan to have training opportunities here to work with the community. and they plan to employ

about 100 people is what they've noted at this time. The current zoning of this property is RSGR, which is actually a residential zoning district, but in this case, it was more of a holdover from when it was just vacant county land. It has never been developed, and so it has never been reszoned. And um in this case, it's surrounded by industrial land to the west and to the south. It is actually owned by the Horn Auto Company which owns the commercial properties to the east and then there are also a couple manufactured home parks, some county islands. The general plan land use designation of this property though is commercial. That is one of the things that would change through the major general plan amendment. We would change that land use designation from commercial to light industrial, business park and industrial. And that's just because uh the B4 and B5 industrial zones require that that general plan land use designation. The planning of this was more of just as it has been held by Horn. It was designated commercial kind of to match whatever their eventual plan was, but they never developed it or and then their expansion plans only went as far as uh that cactus road alignment. So here with Sun, they are planning to sell the property to Sun and are part of this request to designate this to an industrial land use. Shown here is a site plan. At this time, the applicant plans to construct an industrial building on approximately 9 acres of of uh land. It'll just be the norththeast corner of this whole resoning and general plan amendment area. I'm sorry.

We worked with the applicant closely to ensure that we have quality industrial design. It's like a lot of industrial buildings can be pretty plain, but we definitely have worked with them closely on revisions in order to make sure we break up the massing in order to provide some visual interest. Shown here are the elevations. I will note that the west elevation that is more plain is planned for future expansion. So they will we have worked with the applicant and their architecture team to ensure that when they have a future expansion, it will still maintain the same level of architectural quality throughout the building. And the applicant has met all of their necessary public notification requirements. As it is an industrial resoning, they have an enlarged notification radius and they've met all those standards through mailings, had newspaper postings, sign postings, and they held a neighborhood meeting at the Apache Junction High School on Wednesday, March 19th. At that time, one neighbor or one of the neighboring business owners attended and he expressed support for the resoning and the development. In consideration of this, staff has reviewed the proposal and we recommend the approval of the major general plan amendment P2510 GPA and the resoning by plan development P2511PZ, finding that the proposed development helps accomplish the city's general plan goals. Uh the change to industrial in this case is supportive of the goal to have more of these industrial and employment uses along the US60 corridor. It is immediately adjacent to the baseline industrial park and we find that it it ultimately supports this desire for economic growth and economic development as we find more employment uses for the city and believe that it would be a great fit for the spot. And with that staff recommends the approval of these cases. The applicant also has a presentation and I will turn the time over to them after noting that the city council public hearing will be held on Tuesday, July 15th.

You can just press. Hi, thank you. My name is Lisa Gage. I'm with Ray Law Firm. Um, I do have a presentation. It is the exact same as the presentation that we did two weeks ago, and I'm happy to run through it again if you would like. Um, if not, I'm happy to answer any questions that you might have. I'd kind of run through it a little bit for the audience in attendance tonight. Um, so as Nick stated, this is the subject property. It's just west of Tomahawk Road on the south side of the 60. The general plan designation is um general rural with a um single family detached residential and we are um asking to change to business park with industrial um land use. This is the proposed um development site plan with the project current project phase one up in the northeast corner of the development on about nine acres. Just zoomed in a little more. You can see the movement of the truck traffic. And then we are here with the elevations um that we have worked very closely with staff to make sure that they meet the design standards for the city and it's a building that you all can be proud of. That's it. Thank you. Anyone have any questions? Right. Thank you very much. I now open the public portion of the hearing for case P-25-10-GPA to the public. I'm going to remind everybody that you have three minutes to

speak and please state your name and address. Good evening, Commissioner and as chairman and commissioners. My name is Steven Harshman, 250 South Tomahawk Road here in Apache Junction, and I just wanted to speak in favor of this development. These would be much needed entry- levelvel jobs for our young folks and will really help out our community. And I hope that you guys can see fit to send approval on up the city council. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else would like to speak? Going once. Going twice. And now close the public portion of the hearing. Any discussion before we go on the facts? All right. Who wants to do the finding of fact? Okay, do this. It's a long one. Okay. Okay. So, I'll do the finding of facts for the plan development reszoning. Okay. Number one, that a better design cannot be achieved by applying the strict provisions of the underlining zoning district. Do we have a problem with this? I do not. Okay. Number two, that strict adherence to the provisions of the zoning ordinance is not required in order to ensure the health, safety, and welfare of the inhabitants of the proposed development. Don't see any problems here. No problem. That strict adherence to the ordinance is not required to ensure that property values of adjacent properties will not be reduced.

I don't since it's all the same, right? Exactly. All right. Those are the finding effects for the development reasoning. Okay. Um, can I have a motion? Sure. For the development reasoning. Okay. So, I move that the planning and zoning commission recommend to the city to the Apache Junction City Council the approval of the proposed resoning by plan development case. Aren't we doing the major plan? No, we're doing the resoning first because that's what we read first. Okay. Also, if I could interrupt real quick, you're going to have another item. So, you'll have to do another public hearing on it, right? You understand that, right? Yes. Okay. So, that the develop the um they're separate motions, right? General plan amendment needs another public hearing. Yes. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Okay. So again, I move that the Planning and Zoning Commission recommend to the Apache Junction City Council the approval of the proposed resoning by planned development case P-25-11-PZ, a request by Sun Construction, represented by Brennan Ray of Ray Law Firm to reszone parcels 102-20-008A and 102 2-20-00008C located near the northwest corner of Cactus Road and Auto Center Drive from general rural low density single family detached residential RS-GR to industrial by plan development uh B5 PD subject to the seven conditions of approval noted in the staff report dated June 10th. 2025.

I'll second that motion. Thank you. Do you have a motion in a second? Commissioner Star, yes. Commissioner Gage, yes. Vice Chair Barker, yes. Chairman Hanshei, yes. Commissioner Mikeland, yes. So move, Mr. Chairman, the motion is for recommending approval of the reszoning. Thank you, Rudy. Okay, I now open the public portion of hearing for case P-25-10-GPA. So, this is the general plan, right? General plan amendment. General plan or that's 25-11-PZ. I'm sorry. Anybody like to speak on this? It's essentially the second part of the same thing. Going once, going twice, closed. All right. So number one finding a fact whether the amendment proposed a land use designation that the land use map does not adequately provide an option to the site and accommodate. No, it's a perfect local. It is whether the amendment constitutes an overall improvement to the general plan will not solely benefit a particular land owner or owners of a particular point in time and is consistent with the overall overall intent of the 2010 general plan. points. Whether the proposed amendment is justified by an error in the 2010 plan as originally adopted. It's not an error. There's no error.

Whether the proposed change is generally consistent with the goals, objectives, and other elements of the 2010 general plan. Definitely. Definitely. That's it. Any discussion on this? Can I get a motion? Mr. Chair, Mr. Burker. I move the planning and zoning commission recommend to the Apache Junction City Council the approval of major general plan amendment case P-25-10-GPA, a request by Sun Construction, represented by Brennan Ray of Ray Law Firm to amend the general plan land use map for parcels 102-20-00008A and 102-20- 008 C located near the northwest corner of Cactus Road and Auto Center Drive from Commercial to Light Industrial Business Park and Industrial. Do I have a second? Second. Rudy, I have a motion and a second. Can I get a roll call? Commissioner Star, yes. Commissioner Gage, yes. Vice Chair Barker, yes. Chairman Hans, yes. Commissioner Mikeland, yes. So, Mr. Chairman, this uh general plan amendment case also recommended for approval from the city council. Okay. You going to present for the CP? Yes. All right. I think I just clicked on something. All right. Hello again and thank you again. I'm Nick Leftwitch, senior planner for the city of Apache Junction

and I'll be presenting the case information for the Apache Trail Superstition Event Center. It is a conditional use permit request P2528 CUP. And after this presentation, the applicant also will be available for questions. Thank you. This is the subject site located at the southeast corner of Lost Dutchman Boulevard and Apache Trail. It is parcel 100-25-043E. So it is just this south parcel. It's approximately 5 acres. The applicant So currently the parcel is used for RV and boat storage and the applicant and the property owner have proposed to use the west half of that 5 acres for an event center and venue. and that is one of the uses that has been designated by one of the more recent zoning updates to require a conditional use permit um in the B1 general commercial zoning district. And as is also noted um the city council recently had another text amendment where this conditional use permit will be forwarded to them for final determination. Just as a note since that is we haven't had very many of the conditional use permits that have had that circumstance yet. The parcel is adjacent to commercial uses to the north and residential properties to the south, west, and east. Provided here is a site plan showing where it will be developed. Right now, there is landscaping improvements proposed uh along the street front of Apache Trail as well. Some of it will uh involve the neighboring parcel and some shared parking is involved with the facilities that are already existing on site. These are the proposed elevations with the window being able to face

towards the Superstition Mountains. Shown here is a floor plan. The proposed building is 4,927 12 square ft. Is a building with facilities to be able to accommodate events like weddings. So you have things like the bridal room and prep rooms, but ultimately it can be a multi-purpose event venue and center for different opportunities. So the applicant has again complied with the public notification requirements including a sign posting, mail notification, and a newspaper posting. They held their neighborhood meeting on June 10th at the Apache Junction Multigenerational Center, which point one neighbor attended and expressed support for the development. Staff has also received two emails expressing opposition out of concern for traffic and noise. Uh they're from the same household, one of which was included within the staff report and the other which was provided as an insert tonight just uh on your desk. And with this staff recommends the approval of P2528 C subject to the conditions of approval noted in the staff report in order to facilitate greater cohesion and sensitivity to the surrounding residential uses. We have had other uh wedding venues that have recently come to the planning and zoning commission for approval. And at that time, because of concerns with outdoor noise and so forth, uh staff had coordinated conditions of approval that would uh help regulate the time that music would turn off. and uh because of the impact on residential properties and we have again worked with the applicant made sure that that would be doable here because the city already has a noise ordinance but through these conditions of approval it will better harmonize with the neighborhood and we hope that it mitigates uh any kind of future worries and noise impacts. And with that I will turn it over to the applicant. We got a a question or two. Um, we've

worked on a couple of projects. Um, thinking about the Empire site, Sunt, which we just talked about. Um, there was a landscape company on Tomahawk and and Baseline and uh I think that Blunt Construction too where we required block walls surrounding those businesses and here we're not doing that. Is that the type of business or what what's driving the the two different approaches to walls around these properties? We had worked with the applicant about what would would be necessary and um if we have future development they may warrant that. But Commissioner Gage, those are those past projects are a little bit different. Those are industrial uses, right? That could produce a lot more no noise, vibration. Their hours of operation are a bit different. Um, so we've worked with the applicant to ensure that noise isn't going to exceed a certain time of day and it wouldn't uh exceed a certain decibel level according to our noise ordinance. Okay. And then my other one was over at Havenley, just east of the roundabout. We had that developer put in a a deceleration lane off of Superstition. Um, you know, Superstition's 35 miles an hour, but there's nothing in here to do anything coming off of State Route 88 where the speed limit's 50. Any comments on that and why we I mean, it's a state highway, so it's a little bit different. You probably can't. And that was something that we had forwarded that review with our our city engineer who was happens to be here tonight. But in that case, uh in terms of the determination of traffic, it was determined that it wasn't necessary. U

there is a lot of involvement with AOT studies since AOT still maintains uh ownership and control over the ride ofway. And um but if you have further questions, I believe we could also ask our engineer if uh you have specific traffic worries. Uh he does have a presentation tonight about traffic impact analysis and the kind of determination that goes into what when a deceleration lane is needed. But uh I myself don't have the expertise for that item. Okay. I also noted that there was only one entrance and exit from the property. Yes, sir. It seems Mike might be somewhat dangerous in the case of evacuation. our fire department has or our fire district has reviewed the uh the proposal and there's certain criteria that that goes into when they they need more access but in this case they've in determining the length and determining the fire lanes and they've approved it at least as something that's workable for safety reasons Um on the is that the east side of the property that comes down Cactus? Uh it is Cortez on the Cortez. Um is there access to this back parking lot from Cortez? I believe. Yes. So open that is ex so that is um is parking that is currently used for the existing restaurant and cafe and because the property owner owns the whole site we coordinated with them. We said that that that area would be necessary for overflow parking uh just

as we were determining the different parking requirements for this facility. Uh but they're not doing improvements to that itself. So, I don't believe they were modifying any access or entry there, but the primary the primary entrance would be along Apache Trail and uh because there is already existing access I believe on Can you show me the flow of the traffic off the trail? The the um picture that that we have is so small that I had a difficult time. Sure. So I I see where it's going to come in, but how does it get back here? So the there is a drive aisle through here and some of these dash lines show things like the the backup space of a of a dumpster, but this is a clear aisle so that they would be able to circulate. that these are interior parking spots, but they would either be able to come in here for the parking here or go into the parking out the northeast. Is there a further question that you have on that? So, are all these um parking areas are they all dust proofed? I mean, are they gravel? Are they what are they that they will be required to be improved surfaces? Yes. Uh the city's dust control ordinance requires that any any drive aisle, any parking spot, any anywhere that a vehicle is going to be will be required to have dust control surfacing. And in this case, we've uh we have other civil plans that show that it will be improved surfacing. Okay. And and will those surfaces be improved before this is opened? Yes, they would be part of the improvement plans necessary for certificate of occupancy. and the storage portion is going away. The applicant has indicated that they

intend on transitioning it out. They've reduced the storage portion and but they do plan on still maintaining some of it on the east side of this parcel with eventually removing all of it is what's been indicated to us. So, will part of this be used for parking and storage then? I believe so. Big open area here. If you're referring to the area right here, yes, the applicant has indicated and and they're available for maybe answering these questions a bit more directly, but they've indicated that they would maintain the storage yard use until they phase it out. What's the building capacity for people? I I don't have the exact number as it Commissioner Star, that's a great question. We're going to refer all questions regarding programming to the applicant. They could better speak to that. This is their business. We're just wondering the capacity of the building. What's it approved for? Like by fire code. Yeah. Yes. And the architect is here, chair, and he could answer those technical specific questions. Anybody else? No, that was my question for Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Just load up there. Good afternoon. I'm Miles Roberts with Edifice Architecture and this works just fine. So, uh, kind of what I wanted to go over, I mean, Mr. left which did a great job uh presenting the project. But uh the conditional use permit facts or findings of fact, it's kind of what I want to go over. So uh there's seven points and um uh they're laid out here,

but the um adequacy of roadway and off-site uh parking or off- streetet parking and public facilities. This is a a functioning site with a restaurant at the uh front of the site that's owned all parcels owned by the same owner. So all this will be um we have the existing utilities there, we have existing parking facilities there and uh entry points off of Apache Trail that will be used for this project. Um second point is the uh negative impacts arising from emissions of odor, dust, light, etc. Uh how this is being addressed is as Mr. left which you explained is uh limiting the time for outdoor noise, light pollution, anything that arises from an event center after a certain time will be reduced as well as using the landscaping that you saw earlier by surrounding the property with uh vegetation of mosques and palvery to kind of block that lighting from uh the project out to the adjacent uh resial areas. Uh.3 contribution to the deterioration of the neighborhood or negative impact on neighborhood property values. This is actually going from as we discussed a RV and boat storage facility um to now an event center that has landscaping and uh brings a high quality character in the way of uh building materials to the site. So it is elevating the quality of the area by way of this uh development and then get the next page. Uh compatibility of the surrounding uses and structures. Um as I said there there

is that restaurant that's on the north property of this. Um, and this will they kind of will function in conjunction with each other. They will share the same entry point. So, we're not adding an additional uh entry drive on Apache so close to each other. Um, and as way as far as like the architecture of this, we're kind of um digging into that uh ranching and a agricultural history of the area by bringing in this uh agricultural aesthetic to this facility. And then we're also uh capturing the views of the Superstition Mountains uh with this facility, making it a great space to have an event. Conformance with the uh general plan. This is this intersection is intended to be commercial use. So this is furthering that um by way of this uh use in the space screening and buffering of use as I said it before but we're you know surrounding the property with uh large mosquetses and palibberties to kind of screen this from the surrounding neighborhoods without necessarily just putting up a big block wall. It'll actually, you know, kind of soften that and make it a little more aesthetic than just blocking it entirely. And the unique nature of the property and the developments charact physical characteristics. Mentioned this before too, but we there is an access point that we could take advantage of onto Apache Trail, but it just those two driveways seemed a little close together. And since we already had one that was very adequate already on on site, it was a great opportunity to just use that as well and kind of get dual function out of that rather than adding a new, you know, slow down stopping point to get in to the site. And that's all I have. And if you have any questions, more than happy to answer. What is the capacity? It's about a 100

occupants. 100? Yeah. Is that indoor and outdoor? That would be just indoor. Okay. So, it would be a kind of if you're having a function, say it's a wedding, you'd have the indoor event and then you go and have the outdoor event for dining or something or dance floor. Mr. Barker, I'm trying to picture this. I used my magnifying glass on the drawings you had and I still couldn't see some of them. I'm I don't know if I could zoom in, but it was it was very difficult. Um, there is a a patio on this building. Is that correct? Where is that patio? I couldn't discern it. I'm trying to move this mouse. Try to slide over. I zoomed in on the screen here for you. Um, so the building sits back here and it's better. Yeah. Yes. There we go. So, this is the building itself. It's just under 5,000 square feet. This is kind of your main entry. That's at if you saw the elevations, that's the big silo that you come into. And then we have kind of this utility core here or utility spine. And then this would be the actual vin space. What is the big silo? I'm sorry. Didn't even It's It's just kind of a marking point for the entry to this building. I mean, it's not actually going to Yeah, I wondered what that was. It'd be cool if it did. Yes. And then um so then to the east of the building facing superstitions is this outdoor ceremony area. And so the idea is you wouldn't have dual occupants using both spaces at the same time. It would be more you move in and out of the space as you see fit. What's the capacity of the parking so far? So the parking um

I try to remember every number I write down 44 uh 44 spaces that we're adding plus the 44 overflow off to that um east side of the site. So 88 total. Are you including the hitching posts? uh parking lot in that number. Uh I let me see real quick here. Yes, that would include hitching post because we have 27 37 No, actually no, that does not include hitching post. It includes this parking uh to the north of the property, the parking around the roundabout and then that additional overflow parking that overflows that kind of temporary thing you're talking about. Well, this here is actually the parking or that's going to be what it's storage is going to be considered. So, consolidating down the storage to that area and then the overflow parking is up here um kind of behind the hitching post. Okay. So, can we talk about the the possible noise issue? So when you say venue, that's so encompassing. You don't I mean what exactly does that mean? I mean wedding's wonderful, but when you start promoting maybe some of these special events that Mo has done, which are really successful, but hypothetically that's open seven days a week, right? That could be a real noise issue for the neighbors, right? So what's what's the idea? I What's the flow of what you thinking is going to go in there? this new building, the intention is to it's a venue for like you have weddings, you could have some um um family reunions or Yeah. family reunion, a corporate event, uh church service. It's open to more of

that kind of stuff and it wouldn't necessarily be something that would be, you know, sensationalized. Yeah. Some of the events. Yeah. And and the idea is that with this would come some time restrictions, okay, on noise and light so that you know the community feels comfortable. That's right. Because there are residential homes not that far and that has been an issue in in the past. So just trying to be sensitive to the neighborhoods as well, right? And so yeah, that's that's the hope is that from this we get some, you know, time of noise and light restrictions so that we understand that okay, it cuts off at that time and we're not going beyond that. Okay. So, with this outdoor ceremony area, do we have any renderings as what that looks like? Uh, we do not, but I mean what it is there is you have kind of your your uh center, you know, elevated area for what the event is going on. Say that's where the uh the bride and groom are standing uh saying their vows and then it's seating and then those are just little landscape planter areas to kind of, you know, but obviously it could be used for lots of other What's the approximate size of that? It's about 3500 square feet. I think it is 30 by 30. 3500 square feet. 3500. Yeah. So, what's the dimension? Um, if we go to a lot of our stuff was so small it was hard to read. Oh, the rendering small. Thank you. I couldn't Yeah, it's about it's 50 uh feet wide and I'm trying to see I'm basing it off of just eyeballing that. It's probably a 50 by 60, I would say. And that's including the planters. So, is that covered? It is not covered. So, the idea is that this would be, you know, when it's nice out and you want to have that outdoor wedding or event, you would have that, but you have the option if it is hot and sunny, the indoor space is available as well. But we're not

ruling out using it for like concert music type stuff or anything like that because it says venue, right? Yeah. Yeah, I mean venue is kind of a tricky word in that sense, but I wouldn't anticipate a concert happening there. There's there's not the equipment for that. So, I mean, it would be if anything, it would be like um it would have to just be like an acoustic situation because we're not anticipating doing any AV connection there. Okay. And then I got one more. Um, condition three says to screen the event venue from future residential development, a 6- foot tall opaque fence shall be constructed along the south and west border. What does that mean? Where exactly is that going? So, that would be out uh this is that south border and then the uh the west border here. Okay. So you're not you're not screening off the venue from the residences the on the east side on the east side. No, there is a distance from them. And that's how we felt that like it it there is a fence here, but it's not an opaque fence. It would just be a sight fence just to separate this venue from um the uh storage area. And there's going to be landscaping across that. So it's not necessarily opaque. Um, but there's about half the site's distance to the neighbors over here on uh Cortez. Then can we go back up to the parking areas off on the east side? Yeah. Um, over here over to the east. I just lost my mouse. There we go. So, is there any kind of fence along that far east side or anything that would keep people from just going driving across and going out the other way? There is currently a fence over there. Yeah. And that will remain. And it wraps around and uh ties into this fence along Well, I'm saying

where this overflow parking is. Yes, it's wrapped with a fence all the way around. Mhm. Okay. Yep. Does this override the um outside noise restriction that the hitching post currently has? Uh possibly. Mo may be able to speak to that. Is there you have a noise ordinance in place for the Hing post? Yeah. Okay. We do outdoor events and we have a special company that's hired to set up the speakers and all that stuff and we're not exceeding over 65. Matter of fact, I occasionally go check outside over there with a decel meter. We are not exceeding even 50. Can you state your name and address for the record, please? Mammud Yudin 2304 North Cortez Road Apache Junction and the owner of the Hitchik post. Thank you. And uh I you guys mentioning about the parking city of Apache Junctions already have a um lease agreement already recorded in the recorder's office. This all the parcel been for 99 years for a sharing with all the parcel. This have a plenty of parking and we have entrance. question was off of the highway 88 and then we have one entrance for the hitching post back parking lot coming off Lost Dutchman and matter of fact we have a inside sign over there we encourage everybody to make sure they make a left going towards the highway D8 not to go to residential areas and we talk to them put the signs over there now it's up to the public what direction they want to go because the public streets and we already try to do that not neighborhood highway 88 when we build the build the hitching post there was a concern was about the traffic we contact AOT a dot have a letter already submitted to the city the peak hours on

highway 88 is between 9:00 till 3:00 city already have that letter in the file when we build the hitching post and that's from there they want to be a restoration land deestoration land to build up when we contact them that's why they gave a better that's not required. our business is played out and this event center is going to be mainly inside and uh only thing any anybody want to do ceremony take a picture for superstition mountains then I'm going to be over there take a picture of ceremony after that everybody going to move inside I'm going to get rid of the storage the question about the storage going to get off the storage right now month of June so far I repaired the fence about five times these we have these all the homeless people. They have nowhere to go. They're breaking it in. They're sleeping inside and we're trying every single thing we can. That's why this my main concern is to get rid of the storage. It's going to look in for the neighborhood slowly slowly because we have some of them have a contract for a year some of them six month and we already sending out the letter most of the people to pull it out by August. if some of them left maybe a little overlap but eventually we're going to get rid of the storage and I don't know this I have a picture what we design is a does not show the justice over here on um what the drawing is I don't know if I can put it on over here you guys can see it or I can bring it over there to show you guys it's going to look like a old western barn and with a silo on it is going to be give a present all western stuff just like a host is and if you guys have that I can download it and email it to you guys if you guys see it. If you guys want to see it I can just just bring it around here.

Isn't there an old west town set up next to the hitching boat? So that stays that's going to stay right. So when you're done with that, I still want to talk about the noise. So is there there is a restriction now is there not for two nights a week for the hitching post for a noise restriction for outside noise Thursday and Saturday. So would this venue override that? Commissioner Michael uh the Hitchin post and the bull riding facilities are governed by a development agreement. This is separate from that development agreement. So this is independent of that. Um so totally totally separate issue. So hypothetical. So this is actually governed by the noise ordinance. Okay. That is a volume one uh of our city code. So there's no day or night restriction with the new venue as there is with there are restrictions regarding uh outside noise. Okay. And so uh let's see uh condition number five u ensures that all music outside music ends by 10. That's right. And then there's 12. That's right. And then that's correct. And so anything that's outside needs to end by by midnight. And then there's a decibel uh rating that it can cannot exceed 60 dB. Okay. Uh past 20 ft of the property line. Okay. I just noise has been an issue in that area. Of course. So just want to be sensitive to that. Yeah. So just for clarification, he could have seven venues, you know, seven of them here and that's separate from the hitching posts. Yes. There are two that they're allowed. Uh chair yes this operates independently of the pitching post agreement. Make sure that was clarified. Correct. Thank you

for the question. And the event center and pitching post will be working basically operating at the same time. Noise. No, it's going to be mostly in afternoon or evening and uh maybe religious activities maybe maybe in the daytime because I have uh some people approach they want to do the cowboy church at that location. We told them yes they're more than welcome to do that and it's going to be open to the our city of Apache junction city officials fire department police department if they have any events that would be no charge they are free they can use that facility for their any kind of event they want to do and is a different religion people I don't want to bring it up the names on what religion is they don't have any facilities or that they ask me if I can start that one. They can come down do their religious activity also and I'm agreed on it too. Thank you. You're welcome. So, let me go ahead and open it to the I now open the public portion of the hearing for case P-25-28- CP CUP. Anybody like to speak? Again, state your name, address, and you have three minutes. Hi, I'm Hannah Nissen. I live at 2273 North Cortez, so I'm directly across the street from this. Um, I'm very concerned. I'm very concerned about the noise. I'm very concerned about the insulation. Um, they're saying that they're going to use trees to keep the noise level down, but they're having a huge open window

facing my house. So, how are the trees going to help the noise level? Um, if there's a big window facing where the trees are going to be and facing my house. Um, I'm also concerned about the alcohol. I mean, typically weddings involve alcohol. I'm actually a wedding florist, so I know how loud weddings are. There's loudspeakers for ceremonies. There's music. The fact that it could h go on till midnight is very concerning to me. I don't want to raise my family. I don't want to raise my kids across the street from an event venue. And I don't know anyone else that would see that event venue and with kids, with families, and move on to that street. So, I think it's going to change the landscape of the neighborhood. Um, and that concerns me because I want to raise my kids here, but I do not want to raise my kids across the street from a wedding venue that's going to have alcohol, loud music. The hitching post, I can hear the hitching post inside my home. Inside my home on Thursday and Saturday nights, doesn't matter if the TV's on. We have three sound machines in my house to block out this noise. Um, it does increase the traffic on our street. You can hear the bull riding. It's fine. It's two nights a week. we deal with it, we move on. Thinking about having an event seven nights a week is unacceptable to me. So, yes, maybe it's Thursday and Saturday night at the Hitching Post and we make do with that, but this is potentially every single night of the week there's going to be an event. Weddings are parties. Um, it's concerning and I I don't understand if the Hitching Post and this event venue are connected. Are people going to be allowed to drink alcohol and walk from one venue to another? You just have hundreds of people walking around with alcohol potentially. Are the trees that are going in, are they mature trees? Are they saplings? Yes, palverde are fast growing trees, but how long is

it going to take for these trees to go up? I would prefer a wall. I would prefer a wall. Um, I don't see how these trees are an answer to any solution. Um, my I know a lot of my neighbors are out of town. A lot of my neighbors spend summers away, but I know that they were concerned as well. And Bambi wanted me to ask when she she told me that when this was first announced that it was g it was announced to her as an indoor venue and now we're hearing that it's very much outdoors. um speakers out outside they all these people outside that is going to be very loud. I am directly across the street. Bambi is directly across the street. Um so these are some things I would like to hear about the noise, the the lights, the seven potentially seven days a week till midnight. I would like to hear about these things because this really concerns me and quite frankly it makes me want to leave. I don't want to raise my two small children across the street from something like this. And thank you for your time. That's those are my concerns and what I wanted to say. Thank you so much. Thank you. Anyone else like to speak? Going once. Going twice. I now close the public portion discussion and finding effect. I I find the possible seven nights a week noise. I'm all for capitalism, but if I was living across the street, I that's that's an issue to me. Sorry, Mo.

I believe it states in here if it were an indoor venue only with no outside speakers. They can't be outside after 10. Right. Correct. Yeah. But if they're inside and there's windows, what does it matter? Well, I'm just saying they can't be outside. There is a distinction there. Yeah. Commissioner Oh, sorry. Chair and commissioners, would you like to give the applicant an opportunity to respond to that public comment, but then you'd have to reopen public comment after that? Right. It's up to you. I don't have a problem with that. Reopening it. I don't have a problem with having Mo speak to that. Okay. Mo, can you come up or have your representative come up and speak to that? Mahmud May 2304 North Cortees Road, Apache Junction. She is Lady the slave across the street. She has a concern and we honor and value their opinions. Absolutely. We have a bull riding going on since 2014 and there was a case against us. There was 16 17 count of criminal charges. We lost the case in a city court of cross the city in a county court but the Supreme Court superior court we appealed it and they drop all the charges every single things on it and we have no intention to bother those neighbors they rather see is a storage lot than broken RVs and broken cars and car parkings and all that stuff or rather have a event center be sitting about two football field away from that location from their homes I live right across the street from that house and I purchased that house back in

2012 and this c this complaint filed a complaint about the noise all that stuff. They just purchased that house about a year ago and we have activity going on and is a commercial property is approved by the legislative parties and for the council and all that stuff but we are following the law following the codes for your decibel meter readings and all that stuff. There's complaint has been filed few times from the neighbors. Police came with a decibel meter. They checked it out. They said no. And they sent a letter to those neighbors told them this that's a false complaining. Please do not do that again. And this already I have a public record. Pulled it out from the police departments and we working in have a business generating the revenue going to help the city with more generate the revenue. But we are watching it. We are not going to bother our neighbors. There's not going to be seven days events. There's absolutely no way. Right now all the event center sitting empty because it's so hot nobody have nobody do anything only those all the events comes on from October to March or April and they are just men practically they booked up on the weekend especially on the weddings if ceremony the religious ceremony or somebody do that they'll be inside not going to be outside is only thing is over there if somebody want to have do the ceremony outside for say their vows and all that stuff and after that when say I do after that everybody going to move inside there's not going to be all whole activities outside no we are not going to do that that's our goal is and I got a question too these like it was stated earlier these are going to be operating independent from each other the hitching posts yes they're two separate entities and so there will be nobody going back and forth without two no two separate entities they have a

separate license and they have a separate And outside the people they going is not approved by the liquor board. They cannot grab their drinks and walk outside. We have to secure it because we have to protect our license. License worth a lot of money. I just wanted to clarify that. Sure. Because that's the way I understood it. So thank you. There would be none of that. Absolutely. Mo, can you also uh Mo, can can you also expand whether or not there will be uh exterior speakers uh at the ceremony area? Sorry, I Yeah. Can you can you can you provide clarification whether or not the intent is to have outdoor speakers? No, we're not going to have outdoor speakers. Only wedding ceremony, somebody going to perform outside. Whatever the music they want to hear, it not going to be amplified over there. It's going to be whatever the music they like to play during the ceremony. When it's done, everybody's inside. If we have do the outside, then I have to apply for the event. I have to apply for the liquor license for whole storage lot. I I can't do that. This is not impossible. Anyone else? Any questions? The lady brought up concerns about people around with liquor in of the property. Is is there a way that you're going to regulate that or I know how your license is safe? We have to post this sign just like we have a postage sign at the door back and front that any liquor, alcohol or liquid not allowed beyond this point. And we have to have the same thing we put it on over there. Not allowed beyond this point. If they go out, we have to have watch it because we don't want to have anybody drinking in a parking lot. We operating this business for 18 years so far. I never ever have a liquor violation. Knock on the board. No violation for 18 years.

We are really conscious about that because it's cost the license. I just did want to say since I brought the noise thing, um it is such a big improvement to the boats and the RVs that are broken down in that parking lot. I mean what you're proposing looks so much better than that. So that part I mean that part looks amazing. is going to bring the house's value up because they're not next to the storage line. Have to look next to that. Yeah. And right now be I have a single white trailer. I have a four motor homes. I got a two cars and two pickup trucks. I have not seen a payment for almost a year. They don't want it. And I can't get rid of it legally by law. I just cannot cut him up and send it out. I have to get with the this uh DMV get approval and all that stuff then I can give it to the scrapyard people and I'm stuck with those situation is that's why we decide to not to have a storage just do the event center is less problems and plus it's going to generate a lot of revenue for the city. Anyone else? Thank you, Mo. Thank you. All right, I'm gonna open it back up to the public. Didn't state your name, address. You have three minutes. Hannon, 2273 North Cortez Road. Um, I don't understand saying that there's not going to be any outdoor speakers and then saying except for the ceremony and then the music that they want to hear. So, there is music outside. There is some sort of speaker system to officiate a wedding outside. Um, even if the events are taking place during the day, that doesn't make anything better for me. That's just constant noise during the day and at

night. When the hitching post is going on, I can't go in my front yard and I can't go in my backyard. It's too loud. My kids can't go in the front yard and the kids can't go in the backyard. So, if there's noise 8 am to 12 pm, when can I enjoy being outside? Um, sorry, there was another thing that I as far as the parking lot goes with the trailers and stuff. I understand what you're saying that maybe it's an eyesore, but I never in a million years would have bought our house if it was across the street from a wedding venue. I at least a parking lot is quiet. There's no one over there. I never would have bought this house if it was across the street from a wedding venue. And that makes me think, then who's going to buy this house if I ever want to sell it? Am I going to be able to sell? I don't want to sell this house. I want to stay here. This is where I want to raise my family. I love the school my kids go to. I want to stay here, but I don't believe that it's going to raise the value of the house. just being a young mom with a family, I would not purchase a house across the street from a venue, I'm still a little bit confused about the liquor. Um, so is even if there's liquor inside, there's is he saying that it's just not allowed outside or We can't directly answer your question. Okay. Okay. Um, that's still something that's concerning to me. And is there a kitchen? I'm not sorry I know I'm just saying this as a question you don't have to answer. Um is is there a kitchen within the venue that is catering because I'm having a hard time believing that people would book an event venue for a wedding knowing that they can't have alcohol there. Most people drink at weddings. Um I also don't believe that it's not going to be seven days a week cuz why would you open this event venue unless you thought you

could book it year round? Like I said before, I'm a wedding florist. I do weddings year round. I do weddings June, July, August indoors, which this place is going to be. It's going to be an indoor venue. So, you could very much have a wedding. And I know that they stated it's not just a wedding venue. There's other events. But events are allowed. It doesn't necessarily have to be a wedding for it to something to be rowdy and loud. So, my concerns my concerns still stand. I feel like it's going to change that street, that neighborhood. Um, yeah. Thank you for listening to me. Thank you. And after the meeting, you could also probably talk to the city. They could explain the liquor license and stuff a little bit better to you. Anybody else like to speak? Going once, going twice, and now close the public hearing portion. All right. Any more discussion? About the what? Well, there was 44 and 44 not counting the boat. Still the Yeah, but not every single person would probably drive. I don't know what I thought. I mean, it's in compliance with our city regulations for parking. Correct. So, this our experts have looked at it and it is in compliance. And then like with the dust control and all that, that's part of the city's discontinu enforcement and it doesn't

need to be anything specific in here for that because that'll be taken care of under the business rules. Yes. Dust proofing is part of our zoning ordinance and our engineering standards. Right. The dark lighting. That's right. Right. Um finding effect. I think Jesse's gonna do it. Jesse's gonna do it. All right. Finding of fact number one, adequacy of roadways, off streetet parking, public facilities, and services to accommodate proposed use. Just what it is. It is I mean it's met all the criteria. You can even ask our city engineer a little more about this with the the traffic. Number two, negative impact arising from the emission of odor, dust, gas, noise, lighting, vibration, smoke, heat, or glare. I think noise is still a problem. I think there's a noise issue, but they've mitigated or attempting to mitigate that with a 10:00. Yeah. I mean, it has specifics in the conditions of what the noise can be to the edge of the property. And if it does exceed that, can get his cup vote. So I think it's there are rules in place for it. I think there's mitigation for it. Yeah. Number three, contribution to the deterioration of the neighborhood or negative impact on neighborhood property values. I think it'll help compared to what it is. I kind of agree with you. I don't think it'll hurt. It may not makes things skyrocket, but I think it'll make it better.

Number four, compatibility with surrounding uses and structures. I mean, it's zone for this. Yeah. Number five, conformance with the general plan and city policies. does conform. Does staff is also recommending approval. Number six, screening and buffering abuses. I would like a wall, but I'll agree with our city experts. And then we do have that other venue down approved over here. They didn't put any fencing up and it's a wedding venue as well. True. There's no neighbors around there. But again, we didn't make them wall. No, we didn't. You're absolutely correct. There's a fence. Yes, a wall. Well, we did similar with them with the landscaping and everything as a buffer. So, I think we're, you know, as a city, we're being consistent and I like that and consistency counts. Yep. Number seven, unique nature of the property use and/or development's physical characteristics. I think it's the best plan for it as far as the way they present it, especially sort of how they want to use. I'd rather see that than a storage. Yeah. I mean, if that's the choice. Storage We can't tell people what can't. And with what they're working with, I think they made the best use of developing.

All right. Do we want to do a motion? I move that the Planning and Zoning Commission recommend to the Apache Junction City Council the approval of the proposed conditional use permit case P-25-28-CUP a request by Dne Asel of Edifice Architecture to permit the use of an event center and venue on parcel APN 1000-2. 25-043E located near the southeast corner of Lost Dutch Dutchman Boulevard and Apache Trail zone general commercial B1 subject to the following eight conditions. Do I have a second? I'll second it. You're reaching, Mr. Chair. I am allowed to second. Yes, you are. Rudy, I have a motion and a second. Can I get a roll call, please? Commissioner Mikeland. Yes, Chairman Hansen. I am going to vote yes as well. Vice Chair Barker. Yes, I have my concerns, but I do believe that this is probably the best use of the piece of property. So yes, Commissioner Gage, I concur with Commissioner Barker and vote yes. Commissioner Star, I concur with both of those votes. Vote yes. 5-0. The motion passes, Mr. Chairman. This will go to city council with your recommendation of approval. Thank you, Rudy. All right. Old business. There are two

old business items this evening. Yes, sir. Presentation and discussion of parking reductions requests. Kelsey. All right. Good evening, commission members. My name is Kelsey Shatnik. I'm a planner on staff and tonight I have a very brief presentation for you regarding parking reduction requests. Uh this review uh review of this topic was requested after the recent Wolf Company CUP case where the applicant requested a guest parking reduction of 65 spaces. So to give some background on guest parking regulations, prior to 2023, the zoning ordin ordinance did not have a separate requirement for guest parking. And so as development increased throughout the city, concerns were heard regarding the city's lack of required guest parking. So per council directions, staff amended the parking standards and recommended a guest parking requirement of 0.3 spaces per unit. And this requirement was a conservative approach based on multif family parking trends that were observed in recent multifamily developments within the city. So how is multifamily parking calculated? So it's primarily determined by bedroom count. So a studio or efficiency require one space for dwelling unit. A onebedroom requires 1.5 spaces and then two or more bedrooms require two spaces. And then you have the additional guest parking of 0.3 spaces. So how can a parking reduction be requested? So first you may see them requested through plan developments where applicants may request deviations from the standard zoning ordinance requirements. And second, they can be requested through an administrative parking reduction, which allows staff to administratively approve up to a 10% reduction, provided that the applicant provides technical evidence that the parking reduction um generates a parking

demand less at least less 10% less than the required parking standard and or a determination that a portion of the required parking can be accommodated with existing public parking available within 100 ft of the property. So, what is the value of a parking reduction? So, it's important to remember that the zoning ordinance is not a one-sizefits-all document, but a tool to help guide development. So, while developers are required to adhere to the standards set by the zoning ordinance, the code also provides mechanisms that allow for flexibility in how these standards are applied. So flexibility in the code can help to create a better development that meets both the needs of the development as well as the city. So when it comes specifically to parking reductions, flexing flexibility can prevent over supply to allow for things like more um on-site amenities and it can also help to better align the development with the surrounding neighborhood and availability of alternative parking options. So, kind of to wrap up my presentation, um, parking reductions are infrequent requests. So, within the past 10 years, there have been two formal requests, one of which was the Wolf Company. And they are only approved under specific circumstances. So, um, again, applicants must provide technical evidence to support their request. And then these documents are carefully reviewed by staff to ensure that the request is reasonable, valid, and aligns with the proposed use and the surrounding neighborhoods. So, um, again, very brief presentation kind of hitting the highlights that I presented in the memo, but happy to answer any questions you may have. So, I think I brought this thing up and

um basically the reason was it seemed as if every uh case that we would address we were getting these requests from the developers to reduce the parking, reduce the parking, reduce the parking. And you're just saying it only happened two times in 10 years. So, I'm a little bit confused about that. It seemed like every thing we looked at, we were always having parking issues, which drove the the whole let's redesign the parking standards and created I don't know, we met four or five times on redoing the parking standards. And I know there's no one-sizefits-all, but it it sure would be nice if every time we didn't have to. Commissioner Gage, if my memory, Commissioner Gage, if my memory serves me correct, the latest or yeah, the latest uh text amendment to address parking was a the guest parking requirement. And that came about because there was a historical concern from the commission, city council, and residents that there wasn't sufficient guest parking and that there would be a nuisance to the adjacent neighborhood. Right. Yeah. I wasn't our standard like really low before and then we kind of readjusted it and raised it up to a new threshold. Chair, when it came to a guest parking requirement, we didn't have any. Yeah, but I mean our overall parking wasn't it kind of low. It was generally consistent with uh with industry. Yes. New one, we actually kind of raised it, right? When it came to unit count, I think it remained unchanged. Correct. Uh the only change that uh happened with our last text amendment was that that.3 metric for the guest parking spaces in multifamily specific. Correct. In multif family specific. We had a standard for guest parking in mobile home parks. We never had a a standard for guest parking in single family neighborhoods or multifamily developments. Uh the

proposals we were seeing barely met their minimums. Uh so that was the concern that maybe we should add a guest parking requirement to to the multifamily uh developments and that's when those changes were made and I think right around the same time we also came up with the standard for electric vehicle spaces on large and bicycles. Yeah. Right. Yes. Bicycle park. Yes. But Kelsey is correct. In the last 10 years or so we we've we've only got two uh formal requests for reductions in parking. But historically it's been a concern that minimum meeting parking or total total total total only two boy I should no what you're thinking about is a lot of times when we get the first look at things we'll say there's not enough parking and they'll come back having met that parking that we've talked about. We've talked to many developers that we didn't think they had enough parking and they brought it back and showed us that Now we do. Commissioner Gage, the the historical concern has been that uh like Rudy just said, the developers have have met minimum requirements for a unit count and not provided any excess spaces for uh guest parking. Right. My question is if we don't give you the reduction, are you going to provide the additional parking? How you you plan to do that? Commissioner Star, that question would be uh project specific to the applicant. Uh tonight's presentation is just given a general background on how we came up with these parking standards. Gotcha. So we would basically if a project comes in like it does, you know, every time we receive a project, we review their parking, determine do they meet, are they below, are they exceeding, and then we would determine based on where is it located? Is there anything um you know any on street

parking that is being provided that could kind of help supplement? Um is it more in a you know residential neighborhood where you're you know being very specific. You don't want people to park on the street and be a nuisance. So it's very project specific and so each time that comes in we kind of look at the project as well as the general context surrounding it. I think one thing that may help too if this comes up and we have to like they're asking for a reduction. What are we getting back for? Because you know it says it's for amenities or whatever reason. Maybe highlight that reason as to why we're conceding some parking. Sure. Sure. I answer you that that's fair and and especially when a project is uh governed by a plan development ordinance. Um you could ask for tradeoffs. I'm just saying maybe if it's clarified ahead of time too, that would just help. Sure. Hey, this is what the community is getting back for whatever drop in parking. Then that would help us. Is it worth it? That way we'd know what the value is. Agreed. Yeah. You know, I know there's no oneizefits all, but it would be nice if these exceptions were, you know, happen very infrequently and and like chairman said they there is some offset for um for us reducing the standards that we've that we've got here. It just seemed like we're always rolling over on on parking and I think we do but I do think we get value back out of it a lot of times. we just don't really have a way of measuring it all the time and I think it makes it hard for the public sometime to understand it to where if that was clarified then it would help the public understand why we're giving some of these concessions. Yeah. And you know it's certainly the in the developer interest to have fewer parking places as they can because they

can put more more units in. Uh, Commissioner Gage, actually there's a a flip side to that argument is that they need to have sufficient parking in order for uh their facilities to be functional and attractive to existing and future users, whether that be a commercial activity or a residential activity. I agree. But I would still say they'll they want to shoehorn as many units in as into that acre or parcel as they can. That's their agree. And ultimately, Commissioner Gage, the burden of that proof and that argument uh lies on the applicant and then it would be up to the governing bodies such as plan the plan and zoning commission to provide a recommendation and the city council at times to determine if their justification is okay. Gota. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks. All right. Thank you, Kelsey. Our traffic engineer stepped up. You got to go. You gotta go. Our traffic engineer is a bit nervous and so he'll be right back. Um, so since our engineer's taking a break, I'm going to give us a recess and till half about seven minutes.

You smacked it good. I did not make sure you had our sewer meeting at 8 a.m. today. Yeah, we we we raised the price to uh to poop and AJ 2.4%. Everything's going up. We can raise our prices. [Laughter] Well, we don't get a free flush. 200 gallons a day. That's it. 47. Wow, that's a big race. You started this. This is all your fault. Traffic's favorite. Go ahead and start back. All right, back in order.

Presentation and discussion of traffic impact analysis. Neil, how you doing? Doing well. Thank you. Chairman Hansy, Vice Mayor Barker, Commission, Vice Chair Barker, my apologies. Commissioners, it's been a long day. Yeah, it's been a long day. Uh, commissioners, uh, good evening. Uh, my name is Emil Schmidt. I am the city engineer for the city of Apache Junction. I'm in the public works department on Baseline Avenue, the the building across the street from the vehicle testing station right next to the sort of the water tanks. And uh I'm uh I' I've been with the city for a little over 17 years now and uh coming up on 12 years as the city engineer for the city. Um I enjoy working here. Uh it's uh like a big family uh for me, you know, to to be able to work here and uh have some interesting projects that I've worked on over the years. Uh interesting things, interesting issues that we've had to work through, but uh we seem to get through it. Okay. Um but I'm uh appreciate the break. I hope I didn't scare you when I took a quick exit stage left here. uh because I wouldn't I don't shy away from opportunities to talk about the most riveting subject in the world and that is engineering and uh some various components of it. Uh I'm here this evening I was invited to come here this evening to talk a little bit uh about a traffic impact analysis traffic impact analyses and how we use that to uh evaluate potential uh transportation effects on developments that uh that come into the city. And as I proceed, pre please understand I am a jack of many many trades. Uh master of none. Well, maybe master of one or two, but I have many many roles and responsibilities here at the city. So,

uh there's a lot of expectations that I have uh absolute knowledge. Uh I know everything about everything. If I did, I would be an attorney. But I I don't Joel's attention. But with that, uh let me begin. So, what is a traffic impact analysis or we'll just call it TIA for short? Basically, a traffic impact analysis, a TIA is a document that uh or a study that evaluates the effects of a proposed development on the surrounding transportation network, the road network. So the purpose of the TIA then is to uh use it as a tool to ensure that we can have safe and efficient traffic operations with new land uses or uh modifications to existing land uses and new growth as it comes into the city. So why why would we conduct a TIA? Well, it helps us as staff to identify traffic impacts before development occurs. If we can anticipate what might happen, we can uh incorporate uh some of those requirements as requirements into development. It helps us to plan uh roadway improvements for as the city grows, we can anticipate what different road segments need to look like or how they need to function. uh a TIA also helps support planning and zoning decisions for the city and it helps uh to promote um sustainable growth. So when is a TIA required when do we do that? So typically for new developments or expansions that would increase traffic demand and um not just any new development because for example we might have a small 1acre parcel where somebody wants to build a forplex for a rental property. We would not ask for a traffic impact analysis for something like that.

They're typically building on a road that's already established. The use is there and we wouldn't uh you know have them incur the expense for a document which really isn't going to direct us to change anything on small part small parcels like that. for large projects we would so for example uh you know the Gold View subdivision that was built I don't know seven eight years ago or so or currently the residences on Apache Trail that's under construction or even as recent as uh the project um that was here for city council meeting last week and that's the the Wolf Enterprises project uh on North Plaza Drive and you may be familiar with that one that's pretty fresh for for everybody uh we would require TIA for uh zoning requests reszoning requests if there's major major land use changes and a TIA is also required based on thresholds. So a number of generated trips. So let's say for example a uh a Sam's Club uh center would generate a a lot more traffic trips than um let's say you know a preschool building on on a commercial corner. Uh so there's there's a a difference in number of generated trips. Uh the size of the project, size of the site, you know, four fourunit apartment complex versus a 300 lot subdivision. Where exactly does that threshold fall? We don't have that exact uh breaking point, breakover point. Uh we are uh engaging one of our on call engineering consulting firms to help us with uh updating our engineering standards this coming fiscal year and part of that will include uh fleshing out our traffic impact analysis requirements and to flesh that out a bit more. And the reason we want to do that is so that we take away um maybe uh emotional staff

decisions or emotional development, you know, desires that we just have a a set of standards that both sides can follow. We're not going to unduly request something that's unrealistic to a development, but at the same time, a developer just can't uh say, "Well, we're not going to do that. you know, we're we're going to do this huge shopping center and we're just going to keep it a two-lane road because we think that's the way it needs to be. So, by fleshing out these standards, uh we will be able to um provide that and it'll help uh both sides of the table. Now, there are some key elements of a TIA. Uh and this isn't an all an exhaustive list or an allclusive list, but in general, uh a traffic impact analysis would um assess existing conditions in the area. It would look at trip generation. It would also look at trip distribution and assignment. Uh it also looks at capacity analysis and mitigation strategies. Now I'm going to go over each of those a little bit in more detail so you understand um understand what these are. So existing conditions is as what it sounds you know they'll look at existing roadway geometry how many lanes uh and control you know does it to have a you know stop signs is it an allway stop is it just have two streets coming to a larger street that is not controlled does is there a traffic signal so we look at is at existing conditions we also uh will look at uh traffic volumes and patterns so typically with the TIA the traffic engineer will conduct their own uh traffic volume count. But we as a city, we also do an annual count for traffic at not every single corner, not every single intersection, but I think it's about 140 intersections. We do that. And we do uh what's called approach counts and departure counts. So traffics that approach an intersection as well as

traffic that departs uh from the intersection. And we have the coming and going count. And then we have combine all those together and we have a total count for that uh for that intersection and we have that available on our one of our GIS layers. Uh we also look at how an intersection operates. Is it controlled? Do we have stop signs? Uh are there turn lanes? Do we have a right turn lane? Do we have a left turn lane? Or do we just have one single lane that controls all movements right, straight and left? And we also look at safety and crash uh data. Uh you know, how many accidents are there on this road segment or at an intersection? What types of accidents? What was the vehicle movement involved? You know, were they going straight? Were they turning? It's a kind of a very detailed look at the different types of uh safety and crash data that comes into play when you're assessing the existing conditions. Um we talked about trip generation a little bit and trip generation is basically uh an estimate of the number of trips that is caused by a different use. So, a fast food restaurant or a convenience store like a Circle K that is busy 24/7 has a lot more traffic that's generated as opposed to, like I mentioned earlier, a preschool that, you know, maybe only works Monday through Friday, uh, morning hours and then afternoon hours. Uh, where do we get these estimated number of trips? Um, there's an organization, uh, IT, it's the Institute of Traffic Engineers. uh they have what's called a trip generation manual where they have taken all these uses and they have tables in their document all these uses and they assign a trip value generation for that use you know 2.01 01 trips per hour or

you know for example and the numbers do vary in the hundreds u the highest use on that table is uh I believe it's a convenience store by a huge factor over over other uses so a traffic engineer in analyzing a trip generation will look at this table the client approaches them and say say hey I want to build a school he look at the table what does a school typically generate and then he'll use that number in their analysis. Um and this uh the values that are provided in this chip trip generation value manual are historical data that's collected over the years. So uh the IT, the Institute of Traffic Engineers will uh constantly look at and update based on empirical data that they collect from multiple agencies and municipalities around the country. uh for trip generation generation we also look at peak hour and daily trip forecast. So peak hour like rush hour. Again different uses uh will have a different peak hour and different peak uh traffic generated during that uh during that peak hour. Trip distribution and assignment uh distribution is where the trips are coming from or going to. Uh again different uses will generate uh different types of traffic uh and where they come from and where they are going to and then the trip assignment. How are these how are we going to route these trips on the road network using different traffic models and a GIS tool. Um so the traffic engineer takes all of this data and they will use uh tra uh traffic modeling software. There's several different types that uh that are available for their use. They plug in all this data. They run the models and

then the models will spit out results information. So what do these results do? What do these results show? uh they would indicate uh well if we had it set up this way it might cause an issue for this intersection here or it's going to cause a pretty significant increase of traffic on this road segment. Okay, what do we do? They'll go back and if they tweak different parts of the model, modify some of the the proposed uh uh traffic networks and how it's controlled and then run the model again. It'll it's a pretty dynamic thing where they can change things uh on the fly with this software and relatively quickly more so than on paper 20 30 years ago. They can you know narrow down a a network or a traffic proposed traffic condition that you know they'll feel comfortable presenting. Uh the way that these uh analyses are graded it's actually on a scale A through F. They they uh rank a level of service. That's what the LOS means. And it's a A throughF school uh scale similar to school, but they include the the letter E. And typically they try to look for like a service level of D or above. Uh A would be a completely free flowing unobstructed traffic system. But to achieve a service level of a, you're talking about, you know, if I have 20 cars, I'm going to have five lanes of pavement. Everybody's going to have a 100 feet of space around them. And and that's an unrealistic uh expectation. We have constraints with the rightway and land and and just the amount of pavement that the city would need to maintain in order to accommodate that high of a service level. And uh those service levels are shown or listed in the traffic impact analysis. So, we can take a look at that results table

and quickly see, okay, well, this might be let's take a look at this intersection a little bit more. You know, what can we do uh to make it work better for the development and uh more so for me, you know, for for the city. Uh the traffic impact analysis will also help identify mitigation measures. Okay, what do we need to do? We've analyzed it. We've identified some issues, problems. Uh what can we do? Uh the the TIA can help with signal timing optimization. If we see that one large intersection with an existing traffic signal with all this new traffic that's coming to it, it's showing in the model that it's being congested, then uh they can look at signal timing optimization to help move that traffic uh in a in a better condition and raise that level of service. Uh adding turn lanes to a project. uh whenever um I review a project and and so you understand when a project comes in I just res review the off street off-site improvements so the public streets everything onsite is covered by uh the development services engineers and and planners I will typically ask for a turn lane say I want you to put in a turn lane knowing that they'll do a traffic impact analysis that will have a little section that says Well, we've looked at it and based on our analysis using this data and using this, you know, nationally recognized methodology, we've determined that a turn lane is not needed. A good example for that is the Gold View subdivision. When they came through years ago, I said, "I I'd like to see a turn lane on Old West Highway approaching Star Road and southbound Goldfield Road into your main entrance, which is just north of 28th Avenue." Uh, they did their traffic impact analysis. There's a section in there and says,

"Well, we did the the study. We analyzed it. Based on this, uh, the the turn lane is not warranted." I said, "Okay, that's fine. That's a engineer that's sealed the document. it's his uh reputation and uh you know liability and expertise that's on the line and and I'll trust his judgment and we've removed that requirement for the Gold View subdivision and you know we haven't had uh issues uh with that. Other developments we have asked uh for turn lanes for and they said okay we'll just you know go ahead and do it whether the the TIA says it or not. uh Hampton's East on the northeast corner of Meridian Southern. They've got a a right turn lane going into their uh into their development. Um the TIA also will help us with access management. I think earlier in the evening there was a question as to there was one access driveway off of uh State Route 88 onto this uh onto this new project. I think right now it's like a a like a 200 foot wide driveway. I personally like it when I see they control the access. Yeah, there might be a concern with, you know, traffic trying to get out in an emergency situation, but traffic trying to get out in an emergency situation on a 300 foot wide driveway will be absolute chaos as opposed to u you know coming out at one point on the driveway. You'll have multiple vehicles at multiple spots trying to cross over and go into different directions. So the the TIA can help with uh with access management and it can also help with uh transit, bicycle and pedestrian improvements. Uh we've been including a lot more of that in recent years on uh uh not only uh development projects but also city projects, public works projects that we've uh that we've been doing. So what is the process? Well, developers are responsible per our engineering standards to submit a TIA. As I mentioned earlier, we're working on what that threshold is. you know when we can

say yes your development project needs to do this or no it's not required uh those are submitted with planning documents and construction documents staff reviews those TIAs to make sure those elements above are included we look at the look at the results uh we may ask for specific requirements like I mentioned earlier turn lanes into uh into a site and uh with that traffic impact analysis it it helps uh give us uh you know conditions for development Okay. Um, yeah, we see your project. U based on the TIA, we are going to ask for this. We we do need to have this traffic or this intersection signalized with a traffic signal. So, that's how the the TIA can help us out. There are some challenges uh with the traffic impact analysis. Uh there's data availability and accuracy. Uh you know, as technology improves, the the availability and accuracy is is tightening up pretty well. Uh there are modeling assumptions. We we do u use the the tables from the IT trip generation manual. Again, that's all empirically collected data nationwide. Uh goes back to a phrase earlier in the evening about a one-sizefits-all. Uh it's it's getting better as each uh new manual version comes out. Coordination with multiple agencies. That is a very interesting one for us because we are right next door to city of Mesa. Uh we deal with Maricopa County Department of Transportation. We also coordinate with Panal County Department of Transportation and we also deal with the state department of transportation. Just so that you're aware, ADOT has a requirement for any development within one half mile of their facilities to prepare a TIA. And the way that that is controlled is, for example, on on this project on SR88 with that driveway, they're going to have to apply for a permit with A DOT to do, you know, some of that landscaping work or some of that driveway work off

of their highway. The first thing they're going to do is uh they're going to say one of two things. One is, "Oh, hey, we saw your TIA. Looks good. You're good to go." Or they're going to say to where is your TIA? We're not doing anything until we see your TIA. And that'll um helps us in convincing a developer that we really need to have the the TIA. Uh so in in summary um the TIA uh helps us it's essential for for planning. Uh it helps us stay on an even keel meaning you know I'm not going to be unrealistic with my request to developers and developers can't be unrealistic with you know their desires to not build anything uh you know for a road network. Uh it promotes safety, efficiency, sustainability. Uh it helps us uh as decision makers when uh you know making decisions on pro um projects. And in a way it also helps uh the public. Uh I I understand there was a little bit of uh excitement or concern with maybe the traffic uh issues uh with the the Wolf project. Uh just one real quick thing I want to say. I I know in their traffic impact analysis that they did their counts offseason. The traffic engineer had an adjustment, a seasonal adjustment that he put in there and people were questioning, well, where does he come up with a seasonal adjustment. Months later, our traffic counts have validated his seasonal adjustment. So what that tells me is number one I'm comfortable with his analysis and his approach and number two he's very well experienced with uh coming up with um you know a variable that he has to come up with uh on his own. So uh the traffic engineers in the valley they they do a good job. Like I say it's a li it's a sealed document. It's sealed by a licensed registered engineer. That is their livelihood. That is their reputation. They're not going

to do something that uh is going to put that uh livelihood for them at risk as much as the developer is saying I I'm remind you that I'm paying you. uh but they'll uh they have a professional and ethical responsibility through the state board of technical registration to uphold those standards and I I rely on that and I do trust their uh their judgment and their abilities and uh as I said earlier it also it helps us to determine conditions uh for development if that's uh what we want to do. So that's in the general kind of a a high level look at uh it's the wave of the future. We might uh have this outside of city hall here in a few years. Chris, how's that? That's downtown Phoenix. That's uh that's actually uh they're fake. A 120 foot tall stack of uh traffic interchange in Wanjang. It's a Wang interchange in Chongqing, China. That's a very That's not an artificial intelligence picture. That's a real deal. Don't take the wrong turn. Really? I get stuck on that all day long. I think I run that road one time. Yeah. Yeah. I just hope I'd rely heavily on my maps app to guide me through there. But that that's uh kind of my um survival level knowledge of uh I'm not by any means a traffic engineer. Uh but I I'm pretty comfortable in in uh reading documents and and seeing through documents and making recommendations and and I I can tell when a developer is trying to, you know, fleece us and we'll we'll call them on it. But um if if you have any questions, comments, or something that you'd like me to research further, uh or if any future projects as you continue serving on in this capacity, if there's a project that

comes up where you have a specific question on a traffic impact analysis or what it might do to our road system, uh you know, please let the planning staff know. They'll we're in contact uh during the work week. So, I'd be happy to research that out or come up with some answers or even come back and provide information. I have a question. Sure. Like on these uh impact analysis that we get and like the wolf one was perfect example. Yes, it was done offseason, but they show the numbers what they did then, but it never really shows us what the seasonal adjustments are like what our flow is going to be peak times. That's one thing everybody always goes to. It's like, well, we were not seeing the real numbers. Well, I I know they uh when when we provided our traffic counts, they took that back and they were going to make some adjustments to their uh TIA. Yeah. And I need to go back and and take a look at that to see, but I I I'll take a close look to see where how that seasonal adjustment was applied to uh the counts and to their analysis and their recommendations. The thing is, what was it like coming off of Plaza? I think they were saying it was like two or three cars. Yeah. Per hour. And that's all we ever seen on that. I mean, it's like, yeah, it might be in the middle of summer, but we all know winter time there's more. I don't know how many more, but there's probably more than three an hour. Yeah, I would suspect. I mean, I don't know what the especially since you have a huge RV park and they like to go to the post office, right? They do. They're at Plaza. That's the way they're going to go. So, it just seems like, you know, when they say this is when we did

it and this is the numbers, I mean, doesn't really say in there if it has the adjustments in it or not all the time. Okay. And that's So, how do we know they're in there or they're not? So, they they so they say they have the seasonal adjustment, but you're wondering if was it actually applied? It doesn't specify if they show, okay, here's how we applied that seasonal adjust. This just says this is our impact analysis and this is how many vehicles and this is the trips we see but then it doesn't state anywhere if seasonal adjustments have been added or not or so it's like how do we know okay that's uh I don't know off the top of my head but that's knowing that that's a question that you have on this one most likely on future TAS then we'll definitely add that especially like when you know when they do it I mean that's everybody's like you know everybody in here well that they did it in the the middle of June, of course, traffic's going to be low. But if it's also stated in there, seasonal adjustments have been accounted for. Yeah. You know, because nobody wants traffic. And you know, if we want to have growth, you know, we do have to address it. At least then we can say when we're making our decision, well, they did take the impact in because I think that's was a lot of our questions a lot of times. It's like was for me. Yeah. How bad is this going to be in the winter when everybody's here? Because, you know, if you live in AJ, you know, traffic's twice as bad in the winter versus summer. Yeah. We'll uh we'll make it a point in the future from here on out. Okay, this is a concern that we have with the accounts or if there's any kind of an adjustment applied, it needs to be well documented or well explained how that is carried out through the different sections of the This is what we project in summer. This is what we project in winter, whatever, however we want to label that peak season, non- peak season. Well, we used to as a city, we used to do traffic counts twice a year, summer and winter. And we thought, why

don't we just stick with the winter, right? That that's the number that really for the worst. Yeah. If you can handle the worst, then the summer's going to be great. I was I think I was the one that requested you spend your evening with us. So for that I apologize I guess no worries seen several traffic studies included in our in our packets and they're always volume volu voluminous voluminous they're huge they're just huge buried I my my I'm an engineer as well I try to figure out what they're trying to tell me and I have a tough time with it Um, is there some way you could uh streamline provide a summary of that instead of I just feel like I'm I'm being buried in paper, you know. Yeah, especially that project like a summary for dummies. Yeah. Non-traic engineers. Yeah. Um, no, I understand completely. Yeah, it was probably like, you know, the the first 30 or 40 pages that's the meat of the report and then you have 400 pages of of data. Yeah. And like I said, it's all data driven and they want to show here's the data, right? And uh a lot of you know that data comes from different u you know national traffic organizations, IT being one of them. Uh, could you include your data, I mean your analysis in any of those reports so we know what that data say is saying to us? Well, that's what they should be doing in those 30 in the body of the It's in there somewhere. It's really hard. It's really hard to find. It'd be nice to have like an executive summary at the beginning. Yeah. And then go into a little bit more of a detailed and then throw all the the data at the at the tail end. Tell us where the twists and turns are. Yeah. speak. I mean,

you know, you had a standard in there A through F standards of TIA where there or a level of service A through F service and do you rank each one of the roadways here that in that particular way? Well, we in public works, we don't we haven't hired a traffic engineer to do an overall uh analysis of our road network. I know traffic modeling is done at the Maricopa Association of Governments level, the MAG level. Uh and they're always asking us, hey, give us your current uh traffic counts, your traffic volumes, and they'll take that data and put it into their uh model. And you know, they would uh you know, they would come up with results like that, a level of service for roadways. And then the the traffic studies that we do see what I'm hearing from you is that basically that's the city um requesting that or requiring that from the developer. It's none of those that we've seen or the developer going out on his own to try to I want I don't want to say grease the skids, but you know what I mean. They know that they got to do it, so they'll do it anyway. is that we we have a few uh developers that do that on their own. Say, "Hey, here's our traffic impal traffic impact analysis. Thank you." That's one less thing that I you know that we have to beat them over the head with. And Gotcha. So, some of the developers do it and some Yeah. Some of them some of them we may have to remind. Oh, yeah. That's right. You know, thanks for reminding. Oh, yeah. Another hundred thous. Yeah. They just kind of hope well if we don't mention it then, you know, then it's not required. But it it's it's written in our standards which is in our city code. So, Gotcha. I am curious about the the the Havenly development just to the east of the roundabout on Superstition. They've got a a turn lane basically

going into the right. And none of the other developments around here that I'm aware of have that. How did that come about? Is that from a traffic study? Um, like I mentioned earlier, I'll typically ask a development to include a turn lane. Okay. Sometimes we'll get some resistance and they'll demonstrate through their sealed TIA that it's not needed. Uh, okay. So, they may not have pushed back and just put it in then. Yeah. Some don't. Um, you gave a lot on that project. Hampton's East didn't even blink an eye. Oh, yeah. Sure. We'll put it in. Okay. So, thanks. I wish more uh developers were engineer friendly, you know, I guess. Wish engineers could write English. Okay. Wow. I I am an immigrant. I am a naturalized citizen, but English is my first language. So, we managed to we managed to get lawyers and engineers to a lot of professions. Yeah. doctors. Kind of a philosophical question because that's my speciality. Anyways, uh do you think that roadways uh drive development or development drives roadways? Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Yes. Yeah. Uh I'm going to go way back in time. uh 1986 I was a young punk and uh I was carpet cleaning and I was driving all over the valley and I remember Chandler and Gilbert they had road networks built out and I remember thinking whose idea was this to put all these roads in but I guess now with the benefit of hindsight you could say that

yeah eventually in time that the you know building a road network uh drives development, but at the same time, you have cities that can afford to build roads and you have cities that cannot afford to build roads. And we're one of those that we can't just go out and decide to build these big roads. Uh I'd love to, but we can't. Uh we rely heavily on MAG funding for any kind of large road projects uh that we do. Um so we'd like to put off road development on the developer. they they are the ones that are causing the impact or the increase of traffic to uh to our city. So yeah, I would love to have developers do that. The utilities love to have them extend their it's legalized blackmail is what it is. You we just have them build our infrastructure, but they're causing an impact to our road system and that impact has a cost a maintenance cost to it. Are you familiar with the Utah standard on roads? It's pretty much in your in your wheelhouse. should be. Well, I'm I'm uh I'm familiar with Utah. Not so much their standards, but uh they're constantly under construction. Drives me nuts. But they laid out their city so that the I guess the the standard was that you had to be able to turn a wagon with so many horses in front of it in order in the road. That's how road wide the roads had had to be. And thus that created a wide if you ever went to Salt Lake City, you'll see the widest roads uh through the city and that they they have all the development that goes with it. They they were one of the first to come up with the grid kind of a rectangular road grid system. Yeah. It may it may have worked for a wagon and a team of horses, but you know, with a semi-truck pulling a large trailer, probably you're coming close. I've

driven a a semi through Salt Lake City and I I can turn around on this road. What's the general threshold for a light going? Traffic control lights. Um, that's Everybody always wants a light. Oh, yeah. Well, let me let me give you an example of uh current intersection that that we're looking at. Um Delaware and Southern for many years. If you're driving southbound on Delaware, it seems like within the last six or seven years, if you're at that stop sign, you have a string of traffic going east and west and you're there for several minutes. The traffic is steadily increasing. So, as the volume increases, uh we public works, we administratively decided we need to change that. So, we u instituted that hallway stop condition uh a year or two back and that's to help uh train the drivers if you will to to get used to a stopping condition because this next fiscal year we are going to be designing for a traffic signal and with the potential of the uh landowner to the west and south there uh they're that they are committed to participate to the cost of construction for that traffic signal. So, we may be looking at uh if we can find a way to fund it, our part of it that we would look at construction in fiscal 27 for that traffic signal and and it's uh it's needed. The traffic is just getting heavier. So, uh it's usually volume driven. It could also be uh accident driven. There are a lot of accidents, crash data. Okay, we need to control this intersection, control the movements through there to help m minimize those accidents. For volume, generally, how much volume would you need to to warrant a traffic signal? Uh

well, there there are eight warrants for a traffic signal and and volume uh is one of them. Uh again, it would depend on uh the road geometry, you know, number of lanes, turning movements, uh things like that. So, it's hard to say, well, here here's the threshold of the crossover where you're into. So, let's take Plaza and Superstition real quick. What would be a threshold to put a light in there for people coming north on Plaza when get out of there? Uh it depend on the the wait times and the and the queue length of number of vehicles waiting to get onto uh Superstition and um when we when we the city we built Plaza Drive with that cross-section we added that left turn lane to kind of help separate those movements getting onto Superstition. So I would suspect that uh it's it's probably the left turn movement onto westbound Superstition that would be the most problematic out of the two. right turn you can get on fairly easily and that's to get to the post office so that helps out. But uh but yeah, if if the if the queues start getting too long and the time start getting way too long then that's would be considered too long generally. I mean a rule of thumb 10 cars there now we got to put a light in you know I mean nobody's gonna say that but I mean generally we have conditions repeating over and over. Yeah. 30 to 90 seconds. Maybe two minutes. I I I would get upset if I had to wait for more than two minutes at any intersection. That's just me personally. Right. What? I take it you don't try to turn at that particular intersection. I I drive through there once in a while. I I do try to get out uh and and drive the city to you know I've got a number of projects that you know to look at and just to kind of get it my my finger on the pulse of the city a little bit I

guess. So basically what we're saying here is that if a TIA has been done on this project that I mean sure we can question that and all that but a traffic professional has done their job etc. So we're probably spinning our wheels by saying, "Hey, this won't work. We're not the professionals doing it." So, it's a good lesson. It's a good lesson. I know I'm not I can't understand half the stuff in there. So, I can't either. But they tell me it's fine. I generally it's going to be fine. Well, if uh I don't stubbornly. He knows that. the commissioners, we uh public works, the engineering division. We are in our fourth round of hiring, trying to hire additional engineering staff. We are advertising for a traffic engineer in the engineering division for public works. And they among their many roles that they would do, they would also look at traffic engineering detailed analysis of any TAs that are submitted. So hopefully somebody that knows a lot more about TAS than I do. I've got a real general level knowledge, but we'd love to get somebody here to help us out with those TIA reviews, traffic signal timings, and just traffic networks in general. With all the development going on in Superstition Vistas and all those new roads and signals and things going on down there, we we need to grow up in a hurry and we need that staff. But we're it's difficult to get staff here. Like I said, we're on our fourth round. Uh we've been trying for almost a year. So, And lastly, most important, where can I get the secret button to make all the

lights green? From the fire department. Need a secret handshake. Just a It's a flash sequence. You didn't hear that from me. I just want the button. But again, I'm available for, you know, if there are any questions or something you'd like us to research, just let us know. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you very much. All right. Uh let's see. There's no new business, sir. Uh commission, do we have any news information to report? No, I don't. Rudy, you have anything to report? Not this evening, Mr. Chairman. I think we uh reported enough. Uh do we have a motion to select the next meeting day? Mr. Chair, Commissioner Barker, I move that the Planning and Zoning Commission hold a regular meeting on July 8th, 2025 at 700 p.m. in the city council chambers located at 300 East Superstition Boulevard. And in the event there are no items to be brought forward to the commission, these meetings may be cancelled. Notification of cancellation properly posted and the commission notified by staff. Do I have a second? Second, Rudy, I have a motion and a second. Can I get a roll call, please? Commissioner Star, yes. Commissioner Mikeund, yes. Chairman Hansie, yes. Vice Chair Barker, yes. Commissioner Gage, yes. So moved, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Rudy. I now adjourn the meeting at 9:10 p.m. Hello, boy.