City Council - Regular Meeting

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Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. you Thank you. Thank you.

We welcome all of you to the June regular meeting of the Anderson Common Council. Appreciate your interest in what goes on in our community. different items on our agenda tonight, one major zoning question, some other things also, so thank you for coming and thank you for your interest. But we'll begin this meeting as we begin all meetings with an invocation by Councilwoman Wagner. Yay, Kenny.

Dear God, we pray for wise guidance for our nation. We know without it we will fall. Please grant us wisdom to seek out and listen to the council and many counselors so that we may achieve victory. Help us work towards a common goal to make decisions that are in the best interest of all. Amen.

Amen. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, Call the roll.

Councillor Turner.

Present.

Councillor Hartless. Here. Councillor Dixon. I'm here. Councillor Freeman. Here. Councillor Wagner. Here. Councillor Landers. Here. Councillor Polk. Here. Councillor Newman. Here. President Graham.

Here. Mr. President. Yes, sir. I'd like to introduce the minutes for the April meeting for its approval.

Second. Councillor Turner.

Yes.

Councillor Harless? Yes. Councillor Dixon? Yes. Councillor Wagner? Yes. Councillor Landers? Yes. Councillor Polk? Yes. Councillor Newman? Yes. President Graham?

Yes. The minutes have been approved for our last meeting. We'll move on now to introduction of ordinances and we'll ask Tim Styers to come up and make a presentation.

Sorry. Ms. President, I'd like to introduce Ordinance 926. Second.

Ordinance 9-26, an ordinance for a zone map change, rezoning of real estate within the city of Anderson, Indiana.

We've heard the reading of the proposed ordinance, Mr. Stiers.

Thank you, Mr. President, Council Members. We do have the loan item tonight, Petition 7-26, Ordinance 926. This was submitted to the Planning Commission last month, May 26th. It's being presented by Beck's Farms LLC, Tyler Hancock, Jeff Lilj, and also their attorney, Tom Beeman. They sought to rezone or have a zone map changed for 21, almost 22 acres. This is located at the rear or west end of the Beck's Farms property. You can see it's marked on the map there where Best Way or Beck's Farms is located. The area where the arrows are pointing to would be the 22 acres that is up for rezoning. Best way is the company that Beck's Farms has. The address 1128 West 66th Street in the 6500 block of South Madison Avenue. The proposed rezoning was from R2. Again, the area almost a triangle zoned R2. residential that allows single-family homes only. I-3 is what they would like to rezone it to. That's planned industrial development that would match the zoning of their property in the front. It's the purple, so they're wanting to change the yellow where the arrow is to purple to join with their existing company property at the front of the property at 66th and Madison Avenue. As far as the vote, the Planning Commission is recommending approval of this proposed rezoning by a vote of five to two. Affirmative votes were cast by the following members, Greg Spencer, David Beeman, Betty Williams, Mark Turner, and Keith Grubbs, again voting for. Those voting against were David Ikes and City Engineer Matt House. As far as any concerns, the two members voting no brought up the issues of wanting a buffering, landscaping buffer on the north side of this proposed rezoning between the proposed rezoning and Greystone subdivision. Other concerns dealt with, I believe, drainage and another would be possible increase in traffic on Madison Avenue. Plan commission is a recommending body, so they are recommending approval of this proposed zone map change from R2 to I3. Again, R2 allows single-family homes only. I3, planned industrial development. The one catch or the one hurdle that... best way or Beck's farms will have to clear if this is approved through through through three readings is I three requires Board of Zoning Appeals approval as well so they'll have to seek a special exception if they're successful in getting this rezone to I three they'll show development plans before the Board of Zoning Appeals buffering so forth and so on as they expand to the west end of their property Surrounding zonings on this proposed 22 acres, surrounded on the north, northeast, northwest, and west by kind of the yellow chalky color. It is zoned R2. Property to the east and inside the city limits is the Beck's Farms property, the purple, which is zoned I3. Land to the south, southeast and southwest is out of the city limits in Madison County. It carries a zone classification under the county as conservation residential. purpose of this proposed rezoning, and I won't get into this a whole lot. I'll let the petitioners and their attorneys speak to that. The whole purpose, though, is in requesting the proposed rezoning from R2 to I3 is to allow the owners and the petitioners, Beck's Farms, to prepare the nearly 22 acres for a possible future expansion of their waste disposal company, Bestway. The expansion will permit Bestway to expand their solid waste disposal and recycling services to their current clientele, which includes Anderson, Pendleton, LaPelle, Alexandria, Ingalls, Summitville, Chesterfield, and Shirley, Indiana. Bestway also provides services to the following counties, Madison, Hancock, Henry, Grant, Delaware, Hamilton, and Tipton counties. Comp Plan does classify this property as a business park, which does allow for accessory commercial uses like the refuse and recycling company that's there. Therefore, the Beck's Farms Bestway Company is not is not in conflict with the city comprehensive plan. Again, I'll allow the petitioners to present more information or if you want to ask questions about their future expansion of their proposed acreage, they'll be up right after I'm finished. I'll just preface this. They have presented this map to us in the last few days. They went out on their own and are offering a 300-foot wide, that's the dark shaded area. I've got additional maps if anybody wants one over here on the table if you want to look at it closer. But they are already proposing a 300-foot buffer to protect the property owner to the north. Again, the vote was 5-2 in favor by the Planning Commission. Certified mail were sent out on May 11th as required. Legal ad was published by the Herald Bulletin on May 15th. Petitioner is here represented by, let's see, we got Adam. Is Adam here today? That's you, okay. Tyler Hancock, Jeff Lills, and also their attorney, Tom Beeman. Tom or whoever wants to take it away.

Tim, before you sat down, other than David Ikes, the building commissioner, was there any other demonstrators whatsoever? No. David Ikes building, who was the other one? City engineer.

City engineer, Matt House.

Okay. And you sent out the proper notification...

That's true. Yep.

What was the nature of David Icke's and their objection? I already said that. Drainage, traffic. I asked you what you just said.

Drainage, traffic.

All right. Is it a problem to answer?

No, but I just said it. Oh, buffering.

You got a bad attitude tonight.

Mr. Beaman?

Good evening, members of the council. I'm Tom Beaman. I'm the attorney for Beck's Farms. Beck's Farms operates the best way operation at South Madison Avenue. It's a transfer station. It handles solid waste disposal and recycling. If you've never been out there, everything that occurs out there occurs inside the building. There's no outdoor activities, essentially. The reason for the request is twofold. One is we need more office space. We've just kind of outgrown the office space that was originally built with the building. and we're not actually adding new employees at all. We just need more space for existing employees. The second part is we have 90 trucks and vehicles that operate in Madison County, all over the county, and we do not have enough service bays to service those vehicles. We only have two service bays for over 90 vehicles. So we want to add some service bays as well as the extra office space. We're not going to be expanding the actual transfer station itself at all at this time, although that could potentially happen in the future. The plans for this project are not done. They're still being worked on. So it's still a little bit in the... process of engineering, basically. So we have Adam DeHart with us, with Keeler Webb, who's our engineer, and he's going to speak to the main issue that the gentleman brought up at the Planning Commission was the buffering, and that seemed to be the main thing they were concerned about. We're not adding employees, so it's not going to increase any traffic in that area and I don't really remember much talk about drainage either but obviously when you go to the BZA you have to have all those ducks in a row and you have to have your drainage plan and your buffering plan. So I asked our engineer to kind of maybe scheme something up on a possible buffering that we could present to the council, even though that's really more of a BZA issue to deal with. And he's going to discuss this drawing here in a second. But we did have no, we had no letters of remonstrance or remonstrators in person at the planning commission hearing at all. So let me ask Adam to come up and explain this drawing is what he's did and what what we can possibly do to minimize any impact on any neighboring residents or owners. The property directly to the north is basically farmland, and then to the right there's a neighborhood there. But there's some limitations in that area for building things, and Adam will explain that. in a second. So let me introduce Adam DeHart from Keillor Web.

Good evening. My name is Adam DeHart. I'm a project manager with Keillor Web Associates. Our offices are located at 486 Gradle Drive, Carmel, Indiana, 46032. Can I bring a color copy up to you, Mr. President?

Oh, they do have the color copy? Oh, great.

That's all right. If you want to see a larger copy that might be a little more readable or have colors on it, So as Tom said, our primary goal here with the rezone is to establish the use issue. Everybody's interested on what we're going to build, but if we don't have the use and the rezoning set in place first, You know, if I went out and the company went out and spent a bunch of money creating site development plans without our use being approved, we've kind of wasted our money because we can't pull a permit without having the allowed use on the property. As Mr. Beaman said, oh, I changed it. The rezone is on this piece, which on your drawing that you're looking at, sir, is outlined in light blue. This parcel here is a part of the Beck's property. This parcel here is a part of the Beck's property. This rectangle here is a part of 600 Inc., which is a separate entity that is doing business as Bestway Transfer Inc. And then this piece of property right here is also... uh... backs farms the reason there's two different ownerships is the actual transfer station itself is under special item regular regulation and permitting has to be on its own individual piece of property to be regulated our plans in the future are not going in the reason we're here for a reason or not going to affect that property at all uh... there's Three other, four other buildings that are on the property besides the transfer station. One's an existing office, as Mr. Beaman related to, we're going to need to expand. The other building is a maintenance facility, as Mr. Beaman related, only has two bays in it for 90 trucks. As you may or may not know, the trash trucks have a lot of hydraulics. It's very hard to maintain, very maintenance heavy type work. So we need a larger facility for that. There is existing detention facilities up in this area that are currently there. There's an existing detention facility here in a ditch that drains the property back this way. And then to orient yourself, along the entire west angled property line coming up through here is a legal drain. So on that drawing that I have shown for you is the 75-foot easement, which follows approximately this line off the top of the bank of that legal drain. We intend to provide our drainage and install it to be in compliance with the regulations Anderson stormwater technical standards, but we are also gonna have to work with Madison County Surveyors Office on any work that we do in and around that legal drain. All of our stormwater discharges, we intend to comply with the stormwater ordinance also. We're further encumbered on this particular property and on all the parcels by a pipeline easement that goes through the property and right now currently there are buildings on each side of that easement that creates a hardship for us to work around. And then north-south, There's two dashed red lines on that drawing that I showed you where an existing 100 foot electrical transmission line goes through that also chops up the property and starts to make it difficult to figure out how you can fit in buildings. The shaded area that everybody is referencing here is a shaded area that's required for our use in the zoning ordinance as a 300 foot buffer if you're adjacent to residential. and this property here is where the residential subdivision is. That 300 foot buffer was installed and there is a certain amount of landscaping that was installed when we did our last work on the property in 2008 and it's our full intention to comply with that and make that a part of our construction documents when we do our special use approval through the BZA. So again, tonight we're here requesting the rezone so that we can have our use be legal on the property as we work on our expansion. As you folks probably know, Bestway's been a long-standing, committed partner in this community. They have a contract with this community, as I understand, to provide your waste treatment and your solid waste removal. It's nice that even back in the day in the early 2000s when they started with the transfer station, it's essentially a recycling station for your trash so that we're hauling less waste to the landfill and being able to recycle that. That's still continuing to this day, and I'm sure it will continue that way because it's economically feasible for them also. So everybody has a win-win here. We are down in the very southern extreme of the city limits here. Our south property line is literally this line, which is also the Anderson City limits line. So we're right down there on the far extreme edge of the community. But as I said, we need this use taken care of in the zoning so that we can work on our plans and work around all these different hardships we have with the different easements. With that, I'd be available for any specific questions you might have.

Questions from the council? I'm also on the Planning Commission, as you know. I questioned about the buffering system. You just mentioned that you already have a buffer in place. Is that buffer, by chance, a berm or anything for sound and truck traffic into your property?

What I did find in the archive drawings that I was provided was that that buffer was shown on a site plan to be in compliance with the special use approval that they got in 2008. And there were trees and some fencing that were installed along the north property line. I haven't done a detailed survey to pick that information up. But as a part, when we get into that stage of the project and before we come back to the BZA with our special exception, that will be completely surveyed. And if we're lacking any planning materials that's required in your current ordinance, certainly we'll add to that. The company actually prefers to have additional pine trees there because it helps filter things between the two properties anyway, and they help hold back our stuff on our side. As you probably know, these gentlemen are in the business of taking care of a necessary part of our life. And they have full-time people out there cleaning up the property, most of which is by private carriers that don't keep track of their loads because we're under special permitting and everybody's watching us to make sure we're doing things right. Well, a lot of times we end up out there cleaning up from somebody that doesn't watch their loads, but they do that.

It's the undeveloped part that you're talking not to rezone tonight on the other side?

On the other side of the creek?

Yeah.

We don't own property on the other side of the legal drain.

Okay, that helps me.

It is still on the city limits, but that's not our property.

And do the traffic that comes into the transfer station, you just mentioned all the other cities that bring their loads to... Anderson is that more truck truck truck truck traffic coming into the facility.

There will only be increased truck traffic if there's an increase of waste from each one of these communities that they service. So if you imagine that Anderson is having a big growth spurt Growth generally means more people, more businesses, you have more waste to deal with. At this point in time, most of these communities are kind of stagnant as far as their growth is concerned. We do not plan to put any more trucks on the road, but that'll depend on what everybody's contracts are in the future. It's just like your waterworks department and your roads. If you have growth in the community, you have growth in those type of facilities that take care of the community. Similarly with the hospital, that type of thing. We're connected to the community.

Thank you. Other questions from members? I have a couple for you. If I live in Greystone, What do I have to worry about? I don't know exactly what the uses of the property is, and we're here tonight to discuss the proper zoning. But is it, oh, they used to have rotor tillage of stuff, turn it over and let it basically eat itself. Are you planning anything? What are you going to do with the ground? I mean, do I have anything to worry about if I own my home, my biggest investment, right across the fence line from your project? How would you answer that?

The plan expansion to the facilities are going to be buildings. All of the actual trash recycling and transfer takes place inside the trash transfer building in that rectangle of the area where I showed you where we aren't planning to do any work. We're planning to expand our facilities to the west of where they're at, and as we go west, we're getting into this property. Like, for example, if we were able to fit it in that green spot that's there west of the existing facility, we would have to provide a 300-foot buffer from ourselves because this piece of property is zoned R2. If you buffer the 300 feet from ourselves, I have no room to put any buildings up at all, and it's kind of... it'd be kind of ridiculous to have to create a buffer from yourself when you own that property. So we're trying to comply with the comprehensive plan, which calls for this entire property to be industrial. And quite frankly, I don't know why it wasn't done before, but I wasn't involved in the engineering, the design, the facility in the past.

Okay. I will tell you that there will be more homes built in that area. There's already plans for that. We are going to grow that way. which is good for everybody. But I also want to tell you that Bestway has been excellent as a trash contractor. They get the job done. And if they miss somebody, all you have to do is call them, and they'll be there in a half an hour. So we've had a long and good relationship with Bestway. They're involved in the community, as business should be. So they're a good company that you're working with.

That's glad to hear.

Yeah.

Is David Ikes or the other objector, is either one of them here? They are not.

Not that I'm aware of.

My plan is to, oh, sorry, go ahead.

You have another question?

No, I'm not satisfied with Tim's response. Tim, uh, we're public service and you're not my boss. It's the other way around. And I think you ought to show respect when you ask some, I expect you to, it's two way street, Ali to a street.

Okay.

Gentlemen, I was just going to say, I thought this was what was about to say, and I didn't want to interrupt them.

Um,

I was not able to be at the planning commission because I'm also on the planning commission. My husband had a doctor's appointment. So I don't have a problem. We can only vote on it twice today anyway. So I do want to hear from Matt House, the engineer department, just so I know what his concerns are. I mean, I know that it has to go through the BCA, so I don't have any problem with that, but I still want to hear. I value Matt's opinion as far as like drainage and stuff like that. So I do want to hear that, but I don't have any problem with it.

Very good. Mr. President. Yes, sir. The way things are going right now, I'd like to give this city ordinance one reading, please. Any other comment from the council? One reading instead of two? Second and third would come at the next meeting if it's successful, correct? Yes. Okay. Anybody have any comments on that? then that's what we'll do. You'll receive one reading tonight. If it's favorable, it'll move on to second and third next month, okay? All right, now, I wanna open to the floor. Anybody here wish to comment or ask questions about the proposal we're looking at now? Come forward and state your name and address, please.

My name is Amy Gert. I live at 811 East 20th and I have a homeless camp in front of me and within two weeks, two trash cans have been stolen off my property. Best way I called, they said they threw it in the trash. It happens. They do not. The trash men are so kind to me. They just pick up my trash and never even move the can and take the bags out. They took my trash cans. I had them full of leaves.

Okay, okay. Now, ma'am.

They've just taken them.

We're talking about a proposed zoning.

Yes.

You're bringing up operations of Bestway.

Yes.

Right? So it's really not germane to what we're talking about. But listen, we need to have Bestway call you.

They didn't. They said they would bring it, and they took over a week.

Will you give your name and your phone number, ma'am? Ma'am? Will you give your, if you wish, give your name and your phone number to the clerk, and we will call Bestway. They're in my district. Agreed?

I think they're taking it.

We'll have Bestway call them. You guys take care of it?

What is your objection?

Because the question should be germane to what we're discussing.

You're rezoning, and they're going to be doing the same thing, right? Picking up trash.

Yes, yes. But this is her question about operations.

I'm looking to it. You steal. They're picking up trash. She's a taxpayer. She deserved to be hurt. You didn't give her two minutes.

We're going to get her taken care of in a minute and a half.

We're going to have Bestway call in and fix it. Great. You shut her off before she even got started. What's wrong with you guys tonight?

Okay. Where did she go? I missed her.

She's right here.

Okay. All right. Do you understand what we're up to, ma'am?

Yes.

Thank you. Is that okay with you?

Thank you.

Yes. Very good.

Thank you.

Do you understand that? Jesus Christ.

It's okay.

My turn?

Only Jermaine about the subject of zoning.

It's just a statement.

Okay.

Nicole Kapuscinski. I got an email from, well, I can't really say how I got it, but it was from Matt House, and it was talking about Ridge Road. So I did notice that Ridge Road was on that list. And there was something about underground explosions over there by Ridge Road. So I tried to find it, find the email to tell you about it or send it to you, but I couldn't get it sent to me in time. So I'll have to send it to you guys so you can ask questions appropriately. But when I see Ridge Road pop up, it's huge red flags. And in that area...

Yes. I grew up about six blocks from Ridge Road as a kid.

And you survived it.

It was an open dump for everything. And often we would have tire fires that would burn and burn and burn. And they couldn't put them out because the water couldn't get down to the tires. So I understand what you're saying.

We've heard stories. So supposedly there's a whole bunch of stuff going on over there.

That was cleaned up and closed properly according to law.

Well, Item and EPA and Matt House were talking about underground explosions over there in January. So if it's cleaned up, there shouldn't be explosions.

And I don't know of any explosions, but thank you.

Anybody else wish to comment? And Brandy, is that her name? No, that's Nicole. Nicole? Randy's over here.

No, I'm going to call him. Randy's over there.

Oh, okay. Did you, Carl, you wanted to know, you asked the council, could you speak, and you were denied.

Yes, I was.

We're going to get to that in just a little bit, Ollie. Well, great. Don't cut me off. I've got a right to ask questions. Do you understand that? You're in the same capacity as I am, your council member. Don't lecture me. Can we call for a point of order? I call for a point of order.

Thank you.

So what? Again, young lady, you come up here and you ask, if you're going to turn someone down, then you take a consent, a vote from the council. One person don't determine who speaks. No.

But we do have to follow the procedure and the process, Holly, and we do have rules, and we are talking about this ordinance right now.

You're talking to me. You ain't following the procedure. You're right.

I am talking to you.

I am a council person, and you don't deny the public. Taxpayer pays all of our salaries, and you don't just one person unilaterally say you can't speak.

It's not unilateral. I just spoke to bring a point of order.

We're going to deal with that here in just a little bit. Okay. Y'all going to end up getting sued. We're going to deal with that in just a little bit. All right. Mr. Pluchalski.

No, I was just, have you guys voted yet? No. Has anybody called for the question? No.

All right. Any other questions from the audience about the ordinance? Question. Question has been called.

Councilor Turner. Yes. Councilor Harless. Yes. Councilor Dixon. No. Councilor Wagner? Yes. Councilor Landers? Yes. Councilor Polk? Yes. Councilor Newman? Yes. President Graham?

Yes.

Passed first reading.

The ordinance is passed as first reading. Thank you very much. All right, we're going to move on according to the agenda. Okay, we have had public comments, and I wish to speak to that topic tonight. We are interested, very interested, all of us are, in public comments, suggestions, complaints about anything to do with city operations. okay, your roads, your streets, your street lights, for example, on the utility side. However, we are not going to hear testimony that is not part of the city's responsibility. And we've had two requests tonight. Trane Barkers called me three or four weeks ago and indicated they wanted information about a city lawsuit. I told them to, that's all I knew about it, to contact the clerk and we listened to them. However, as I got into your case, I find that this case has been adjudicated, appealed, and you have lost each time.

I'm not done.

Well, that's fine. Let me finish. And just recently you've filed again, some measure, I don't know what it is, in federal court. My point is this. That case could be considered by laymen like me, and I'm not an attorney, as still in litigation. In that case, in that situation, that is not this council's responsibility. And we will not get involved with that sort of thing. Now, I understand you're serving as your own attorney, but we are not going to get involved with litigation that's either ongoing or wanting to be ongoing, and therefore, that's why I called you back, left word on your phone to tell you we would not hear you tonight, and we will not do that.

Now, in the other case... Greg, let me say one thing before we move on. How would the rest of the council know the nature of... of what was going on. The information was sent to all of us.

Yeah, the information was sent to all of us.

I didn't ask you. Okay, come on. But I'm simply saying, don't you think you'll let us all have input? So you made a decision all by yourself.

Yes, I did. And as president, under Indiana law, I'm allowed to do that.

Greg, I've seen they give two minutes, five minutes to people on anything you're

If I could if I could weigh in this is a public meeting it is not a public hearing There is no requirement legal or otherwise that this council let anybody come up and make any comment on anything and certainly Certainly, it is a very bad idea When you have folks threatening litigation where the city is involved to let them come out in a public forum and speak on that that's why Yeah, the council president tonight has decided not to allow any public comment because these folks are here to just air various grievances that have absolutely nothing to do with what the council's business is here tonight.

But Greg, he could have called individual council people.

He could have, but he does not have to.

And that's your opinion.

Actually, I only come to a judgment of why I wanted to handle this this afternoon. And you have a copy of the scholarship.

What you're doing now, I agree with what you're saying, but we want input, Greg. You understand? We deserve to have you call us and talk to everybody rather than a decision of your own all by yourself. Okay. Point well taken. I understand. Right.

Now, Nicole.

That's not the only thing I want to talk about, though, Greg.

No, but we're only going to allow comments, direct comments, on what is on our agenda tonight for up-city business. The email that we have received from you, we're just not going to get into that. I know. We're not going to take testimony. It's not in our bailiwick.

Well, I have to give the small claims, cases that I filed today, to those two. And I told the court that I was going to hand it to them tonight personally myself.

You can do that outside. That doesn't need to happen here. You can wait outside and do it there.

That has nothing to do with the council.

I think council should just adjourn the meeting.

I make a motion to adjourn. Thank you. Motion to second.

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