Historic Resources Commission - Regular Meeting

It's showing up. Good. Okay. Get going. Get going. Okay.

I'll call this meeting to order. This is a meeting of regularly scheduled meeting of the historic resources commission of the city of Albany. Um and we certainly welcome here as well as those you panel. All right.

Excuse our technical difficulties. Apologies. Okay. I don't know why I was doing that. Go ahead. Okay. Um, in attendance this evening, myself, John Meyers, the chair, Commissioner Mciny, Commissioner Gerity, and Commissioner Hacker, and, um, Aaron Glennon, deputy planning director, is also serving as our um technician for the meeting. Um, I declare now is Commissioner Kaplan. I do not

logged in see her, but if she does join us, I will let you know. Okay. But I don't I don't see her at this time. Okay.

We do. Well, at present we have a quorum for a voting quorum for those items that are subject to a a vote of the commission uh this evening. Um the first item on the agenda is a public meeting agenda item. It's 10 Willlet Street and I will be turning the meeting over to Commissioner Mcini. Because of my membership in the congregation and co-chair of the Capitol campaign, I have to recuse myself. So, I will excuse myself and turn it over to our Able presenters and commission. move this out of the way. Good evening everyone. I'm Leslie Chu and I'm a member of First Presbyterian Church of Albany and co-chair of the capital campaign for the renovation project that is going to be happening at the church. Do we sit one?

You can sit. You can stand. Whatever you're comfortable with.

Um, so, uh, we're going to be speaking to you tonight about two components of the project. And I'd like to introduce Mark Thaylor from TRW, uh, Architecture and Preservation. They are the architecture firm that is overseeing the work at First Presbyterian Church of Albany. Um the two components of the project that we'll be talking with you about tonight are a vestibule that's on Willlet Street um that will house a Lula lift um to provide accessibility to uh recovery group meetings that happen in our basement. and then also the installation of HVAC work HVAC equipment that will be on the roof of the education building of the church complex. And with that, I'm going to turn it over to to Mark to kind of give an overview of it and answer questions.

Good evening. Um, so as Leslie was mentioning, there are uh two components that we'd like to uh have you take a look at tonight. One is the um new uh entry into uh the basement of uh the complex. This is a view off Willlet Street from the park. um that little uh space in between uh the house on the right and uh the the church itself tiny little courtyard. Um I think the next go to the next image.

Um so our new addition is going to uh be located at the back of that. Uh, and we'll have a uh limited use elevator that goes to the basement as well as uh there'll be a stair alongside uh of the uh of the house that's there. The uh fence that you see uh in the uh foreground uh right there, that actually will get higher. We will have a base to it so that there'll be a cast stone base that basically matches the um stonework on the church and then the uh fence itself will be lifted up. So uh it's a little easier for keep people out of that area. right now. Uh it is uh a place that uh you know can get activities that we don't want happening in there. Um and so to be able to lock that off when it is uh not being uh utilized is is an important uh safety feature for us. Next one. So this is uh the rendering of what that addition looked like. Here you can see it's sort of uh the fence again is raised up onto a plinth of of cast stone that's meant to match the adjacent uh church. Um this is a couple of samples. Uh this is actually an actual piece of stone uh

from the church. Um and uh we'll use uh cast uh stone uh to match that. Uh we have some initial samples, but the idea is that it'll match. We'll actually have three different uh tones because the stonework is not monochromatic. So, uh there'll be uh three colors that will alternate. Um and you can see, uh this is actually taken from a mold. Uh so, you know, we'll we'll have the same sort of rock face and and everything else. And so, that's both the base for the uh for the the fence and gate. Uh and it's also everything that you see uh in the back for uh you know below the water table. uh down on the left hand side is a glass storefront uh system that is basically this is um the color though uh would be sort of a dark bronze as you sort of see in the in the image there. Um and then the upper uh area uh the brick. Um probably thinking this one here uh on the right. Um you know, but you know, we want something to sort of uh blend nicely with uh the other colorations of things that are going on. And then um

for the glazing within this unit, this is basically what you see and you be able to see in um there'd be a light fixture in there or the elevator. Um but uh you know there'll also be a skylight on the roof of that and uh you know depending on exactly where you're walking uh you will be able to see uh the stained glass window that's that's in there as well. And on the right hand side of the brick work in that space adjacent to the house, um that is a stair that goes down uh to the basement level. So you can either go down that stair and into a door. Uh there you go. Um or you can go in uh at the at the top and take the elevator down. You have the ramp in the left here. That's already in existence.

Yes. I'm sorry. What was that? It's already right. Yes, that's an existing. And the the raised uh fence. Is that the existing raised fence or a new one that's made to look like that? The I'm sorry, the raised There's already a fence there and you raised it up to put it on a on a masonry base. Correct. Correct. Is it the same metal that's there now or are you recreating something? The same metal on the uh fence. Yes. Um we would have to redo the gate so that it has locking mechanisms and such that that

but the base is the same thing that's there now. It's just being raised. The fence itself. Yes. Correct. And so that's basically what you would see um you know when everything was was done and the alleyway entirely belongs to the church and not to the building to the south of it.

Yeah. The church owns everything right to the flowing face of the correct. Yeah. And the at the where the stairway is in the back, you can see a little slice of, you know, the existing uh church building that that is also part of the church. Any other questions or comments? Yeah, the coloring is, you know, it seems to match really well.

So, here's, you know, the samples up against the actual, you know, obviously sunshine versus, you know, fluorescent lighting is a little bit different, but and the uh the sample here, you know, was just for texture. It wasn't for color. Uh so and those are what the bricks would look like. Yes. Same texture on the bricks themselves. Not the So the the bricks themselves would be, you know, above that. Okay.

So what's that louver piece holding? It looks like a louver to me. What is it? Yes. So, how's that incorporated? The louver is actually the next piece. This is um

so we have uh part of the project is to uh provide air conditioning uh in parts of the building. And so really the only place to be able to put the equipment is on the roof of uh part of the fellowship hall adjacent to the education building. So it's kind of difficult to see. I mean this is basically what you're looking at from the sidewalk on on State Street. Um so you would get a glimpse of of that there. We actually looked at uh you know a couple different colors. First you know we looked at the color relative to the on the education building the window frame color which was darker. Um and we can have have this coloration in anything we want. It'll be a custom color. The one on the top um you know is is more in relation to the color of the brick work on the education building. I think that's probably what we would prefer to see. Um, but the the actual uh, you know, louver is is this. So, you know, this is what would be that color. Um and you know it needs to be needs to be open for ventilation as well as to allow the air to go through it so it doesn't become otherwise structurally you know the wind could blow it over you know so

and and what is there now just empty space? Yes. What's there now is uh so it's like putting a chimney where you didn't have one before except it's the the vent basically. Yeah. Yeah.

This is just coming for concept review. So any questions or comments? No. As long as you're blending it in with the the color seems to seems to be a real sensitivity of color on everything here. And this this as well going have to do something with it, but I'm sure you'll be able to match it. Yeah, I think it's it's a large enough element that I think it really wants to be a pretty close color to the education building masonry. Okay. Can we see that picture again where you're looking on um the the rendering?

Yeah. No, because it's it's actually sort of like up and over part of the fellowship hall. So that that unit in the building you come into a lower section and then you have a higher section of the fellowship hall. On the other side of that is a lower roof again. And so that's where it is. So it's it's sort of like on something that's about that height, but it's behind that. So you can't see it from Global Street at all.

I see. You know, the only alternative that you might have had as a choice would be for the entrance off willlet instead of putting brick. Uh I questioned the brick before because the brick and it's hard to tell without being right next to it is it's it's very smooth from the drawings or from the pictures here. And the texture of the church is very rough. And you wonder if u uh did you look at any alternatives that would have looked more like brownstone and less like a the brick. The brick goes well with the building next to it, but not with the church,

right? Is is Well, we were we were definitely trying to differentiate it. Yeah, that's the reason why you have, you know, the glass and and so forth. If Lee were here, he would immediately applaud that. And I think he will. Yeah, I think he will. I just wanted to see what thoughts went on. I mean, you know, an alternative could have been is, you know, that piece, you know, could be, you know, the same cast stone or the same color or the same color

as opposed to the red color. Yeah. Yes. I'm I'm saying what it could be and actually if you go to the the images that are um more 3D view. Yeah. Looking down. So, you know what you could potentially do instead of carrying the brick right to here, you could have this, you know, being the same cast stone here and then just sort of point it in. Yeah. It just changes changes that element right there.

Chris Wman and I did discuss that as you know when when this initially came in of you know material choices whether it should be a more replicated stone or brick and we felt that you know the brick was appropriate as this is an addition it does stand on its own. Yeah, but you know again commission if there are alternate recommendations that now's the time to I just just question the the process and others there's more than one option to things.

Yeah, we had looked at a bunch of different roof lines and and other things. You know, there's probably at least a half a dozen different versions. One of the things that becomes uh difficult in in this particular uh thing though is there there's having the flat roof actually is so much simpler because uh we have to get it there's a stained glass window that's like right here. there's some other elements that are on the other facade and you know we're trying to match and get in between all of that without messing any of that up. So when you go inside you know other than the elevator shaft itself you'll still be seeing all the original uh stonework on the church.

What are you going to do for the snow? We put in snow melt. Okay. So, there'll be a snow melt system uh that basically take care of this area. I know for whatever reason, John didn't want to come and shovel it all the time.

I think the only question is would it be better to have that one column which is the edge of the wall? Should it be closer to the color of the uh of the build, the church, the historic church building? Is it, you know, does it make it stand out? Do we want it to stand out? Um the side is fine. It's very attractive on the back and uh you know that wasn't a without go back one slide to one that we were just looking at. one where the renderings. Do you want this one or Yeah, this one's fine. Okay.

I mean, I think the less it it shows up, the better, but it's a relatively dark brick, so probably more crowns. You do that.

I think you don't want a stick being constit conspicuous. And if you obviously if you made it white, it will look awful. And somewhere between that and black, the more it leans toward the dark, which will match all of the uh all of the the rest of the new addition. Do you want it to stand out or not? Do you want something that's a foot and a half? And I don't know what what that is. is a dozen feet or or more tall. Yeah. Is that it's built up?

Is that a good thing? And or should it be minimized to as much as possible? The fact that it's a brick or rustic gated stone probably not necessary to go to all that, but I just think relatively dark color there. And it's a question which brick you pick. If it wasn't the brick, I would probably go with the capstone because it's already on the site. We're already creating it. Um, you might want to draw it and see what it looks like. You may find it more compatible.

This is just a just an option in the discussion. It's not certainly not for a vote or anything like that, but Well, it will be for a vote the next time we come. You might want to might want to draw draw it that way. And yeah, we could let's think of it and then not anticipate that then turn around and do the entire alleyway all the way down. But some some blend almost like coining.

Mhm. um you you might be more compatible with it because you you certainly tried to match the stone on the base of the uh entrance which is the the now raised metal fence and uh you realize that that was the right way to go. It may also be the right way to uh to get that foot and a half by 12 foot piece to to blend. Yeah. Even disappear if possible. We'll uh we'll draw that up. Okay.

So, just so I understand, you're asking for the April 9th meaning that there'd be two options. One would be shown with rusticated stone on that right hand border piece. Pardon? The so that you would be bringing two renderings, right? Yeah. Provide another slide just like this but showing that as cast. Yeah. Looks great. I think it's it's a good suggestion you made. Yeah. As far as looking at it both ways.

Okay. Well, thank you. Any um I will we do have we we signed up to speak. So just I'm sorry I couldn't hear you. So, we um we have one um one individual signed up for um public comment on Oh, okay. Just gonna see if he's

You hear me? Yes. Oh, what's happening y'all? Hi, Lee. Hi, Lee. How's How's everybody doing? I know I got three minutes. Hello, Mark. How you doing, Mark? Please tell everybody your family. And Steve and Dan, I said hello. We'll do so.

Good. In my opinion, I um I I think the addition works well. I think the brick work was a the brick on that that wall is the perfect uh material to use. It blends in with the brick um party wall of the adjacent building. And it's different enough from the stone that it's a good it's a good it's a good material to use. And you know my idea about glass. I think glass is the best thing to use for an addition. It's held back nicely and it doesn't looking at it. It doesn't detract from either the the townhouse or the church. I think it's a great addition. I think the way you all handle it uh is architecturally good and um it complies with the standards. It doesn't detract from either the church or the um or the townhouse. And I think um I I like it. Um I I don't think it should change at all. And I think the um either one um of the HV HVAC screens work, you know, still is held back in that little corner and it's um it's visually unobtrusive. That's my take on it, y'all.

Thank you. Thank you, Lee. Thank you, Lee. Copy that.

Okay. So, um I will write up the comments from this evening and provide them to you. Um and then we will hopefully see you back here in April on the 16th. 16th, not the 9th, correct? Okay. Yep. Okay. All right. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Appreciate your call.

Yeah. You just have to be here. I'm going to go to here. I'm going to go get um go get John. Oh, go get He's He should be Chris. He's should be down the hallway in like the planning area. Okay.

Yeah, that hallway. Joe, we're we're on the 16th because of so we so that we um we are April 16th. That was nice that you brought all the samples to visualize. Yes. Do you want them again the next time, too? No. No. You don't have to bring them back again.

We have the pictures. Unless you want to do another That's okay. We'll leave them home if we don't need Yes. That was quick.

Now I'm worried where the little piece of stone came from. I know it was from I have to go back and if that was chewed off the building or not looks back

doesn't matter. I can bring that back to the church. to the church or do you want to build that office? Uh, if you guys don't need it at your place, I'll just sing back to my office. We'll need it in a month for the next meeting. No, we said don't worry about bringing Don't worry about bring people have seen it. I think we'll be okay. It was helpful for this. Yes.

I don't know if you're going to want to do that. This is your littleer. She wanted it back.

Thank you. Thank you.

You tell him where the elevator was. I want to see if he can carry DNA. Okay. All right.

All right. The next item is a public hearing agenda item 452nd Avenue uh the Alb County Land Bank Corporation and it's in the South End Grossback Bill uh historic district and looking for a certificate of appropriateness for the demolition of an existing structure. So, We do have members from the landm this evening. Um, if you want to run introduce yourselves and then run through.

Yeah. Yeah, of course. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks for having us here. Um, my name is Jason Choy. I'm the development specialist for 21 Bank. And my name is Lynette Terrets. I'm the director of operations. Um, so I I guess I'll run through the history of of the land bank's you know role with the property and then you know any questions or have to answer throughout. So if you interrupt me that's okay. Um so the uh this property is 45 Second AD. It's at the corner of Second AD and Steven Street and what Steven Street. Steven Street.

Yep. Um the land bank acquired the property from Albany County in 2019. Um and it was uh banked at that point. Um and in uh 2023 um it was advertised for sale with no offers. Um and during that time we uh the land bank conducted some assessment of the site. Um so in 2022 uh an asbesus survey was completed um that found asbesus in the asphalt shingle siding uh and flooring in a few other areas. Um and in 2023 there was also a structural evaluation uh conducted. Um and then this this is kind of where our concerns of the unsafe conditions of the property um arise. There's uh uh first and second floors have water damage. Um so some of the flooring is not completely stable and uh uh and there's some concerns with this stability of the foundation. Uh front and side walls are leaning. Um and then there's there's further water damage in the basement. Um and uh because of those factors, um the the first uh request to Shipo for demo approval um was made in July of 2024. Uh Shipo requested that the land bank relist the property for sale for 30 days at the asking price of $1,000. Uh so the land bank did that in September of 2024. Um there was six applicants um none of which were approved uh for sale um partly because either the there was insufficient uh uh u application like they're missing documentation um or the sources of funding were not enough to

complete stabilization of the property much less um the rehab. Um, we did we conducted another structural evaluation October of 2025. Um, and I I believe that's where these pictures are from. And um, and yep, this is the this is the structural evaluation. So, it's noting the same thing the the items that I was just talking about. Um really the the 2023 uh report and the 2025 report were very similar. Um and then at the same time uh at the same site visit in 2025 um they also conducted a environmental site assessment to ensure that there's uh no issues at the property. Um the building was listed in poor condition on that report but no one other additional environmental issues were identified. Um and so with uh with those factors um we we resubmitted a second request to Shipo in December of 2025. Um they're uh see their letter of uh resolution um this time approved the land bank um for meeting the requirements and they uh they approved the demo. Um and uh so I guess that's why we're here. We're trying to, you know, our concern is about the uh an unsafe nature of the property and it's also related to the cost of completing a rehab and and a minimum of stabilization. We the land bank has done completed rehabs in uh adjacent properties at 48 and 52nd Avenue. Um and then uh we also completed in couple few months ago uh rehab at 79 Elizabeth Street around the block. Um so

those were kind of used as comps for the the price that this would that this would cost to complete a full rehab. Um and our future uh plans for redevelopment um would be we we can market the uh list the sale for uh list the property for sale as a lot. Um, but we also have plans to uh complete infill construction for either a single family or a two family property on the site. We we're starting similar work in infill construction in West Hill. So, that would be kind of future planning. Now, there's a vacant lot next to it. There is a there is a lot a vacant lot behind it. Yes.

Who owns it? Uh I I don't It is a It's a private owner. The one going down Steven Street is the county. That's the county. And the one going up second is owned by a private owner looking at you're on the west corner of uh of Steven Street. Yes. Yeah. And the vacant lot is above it obviously. Yes. The vacant lot is further to the west above it. This is a corner piece of property, right? Potentially be an enormous open space.

Is that a single vacant lot next to it or a double? Single vac. Yeah. And this is on Yeah. This is this part of second half on the hills going towards South Street.

Yeah. That's tough. the numbers that you're quoting for stabilization and rehabilitation. I'm it looks like the the rehabilitation number of 722,000 includes the allowance that we have for the stabilization. Correct. not additive but

correct and those are based on metrics developed from other projects that you've done. Yeah. Yes. Um the the property across the street at 52nd ad the um just the hard cost the construction costs were 670,000 on that property. Um and that's a low variation. Yeah, I believe so. That's on the corner of the next corner. Yeah, the next corner of the No, that one needed a substantial amount of work as well. So,

as I know when we were reviewing and doing the site study of that building, um, you know, we looked across the street, saw 25 and or 45 and um I think at that time the comment was that it needed some work. Well, at that time

it was part of all three part projects were going to be done and that was scheduled to be done. So what's happened between then and now is further deterioration or further investigation as to the structural nature of the the problems. I I think we noted further deterioration. Yes, I was going to say definitely deterioration. You can even see on the rooftop the chimney is kind of caving in at this point. Um, and there's some walls that are um that are leaning. So, it's definitely in worse shape than it was just a few years ago. Foundation is brick, not stone.

Yes. And you can see brick crumbling. Like if you're just looking at the um the front door at the very bottom, you can you can see the bricks crumbling. Was it a two family or one family house? It was a two family.

Yeah, it was two family. It was originally built um I think our research noted it was like from the fire records it was fire insurance map it was a saloon and then there was a store on in the basement of the property and it's been um two family uh in the years since and um our the the environmental site assessment noted it's most likely been empty since 2008. So the structural letter from CT mail that you provided doesn't really provide a lot of detail. It it gives more of an impression based on their observations uh without any real measurements or or quantifying of what the conditions are that would cause them to conclude that it um I mean any building is salvageable. You just have to pour in enough money to do it. So that becomes the the real question here. Um, but it's it was a a visual structural evaluation as opposed to something that provided a little more teeth and more of a scope of work as to what it would take to stabilize the building because as a stabilized building, it might be more attractive to a a follow-on purchaser than its present condition. I can see where it would be a hard sale at this point.

But even if we do go about if we put money into it to stabilize it, we would still need for the buyers to have sufficient finances to be able to bring it um back to productive use. So that's an issue as well is that the max um so for the applicants who did submit applications the max amount of funding that they had was $160,000 and that's nowhere near enough money even if we were to stabilize it to kind of see it through to the end. What did you figure 160 that but that's just stabilizing? No, that was um so when we receive applications they provide us with proof of funding.

Yeah. So that was the the highest amount that we saw when

for the applications that we received. Would it be would it have any economic value in it if the vacant lot that belongs to the county of Albany were attached to it? Probably just off streetet parking and that type of thing. It just it depends because it it is on a hill. Um that lot is directly behind it. So, um it would be a deeper lot. Perhaps it could even be at the backyard per se, but I don't know. We would have to do a little more research to determine what value that would actually bring.

The county has not offered it to you even though that vaccine does it. No. And we're not even sure if that belongs to the county or not. um when we looked it up, we thought that was a private owner for the one directly behind it and also adjacent to it. So, we'll definitely look into that, but as of now, we're just I mean, we just focused on the property that we own. Um and and the county's process has also changed in the last couple years where they recently started an auction process. Yeah. At one point there, anything that was vacant was yours. Right. Right. Um Right. So, um, so anything that they're putting up for sale is going through that auction process.

Although they always made an an adjustment when it was the next door neighbor. Has this possibility of demolition been discussed with Historic Albany or the South End Neighborhood Association or anyone that you can think of that the local elected officials or anybody they had a chance to weigh in on this whether be a plus or minus. I'm not sure if um

yeah, I'm not Yeah, we would have to look into that to get that information for you. We could definitely provide that. What do you if if in fact you had permission to demolish it. What would you do with the lot? So, we were thinking at infill, either build a single family home or two family home that's affordable for a first-time home buyer, similar to what we did with um 4852nd Avenue, 79 Elizabeth, 257 Second Street. So, that that's really our mission at this point is any rehabs we do, we try to um we want to sell them to make them affordable and sell them the first time home buyers. Have you ever just sold the lot after you demolished?

Yes, we have. And I guess some of the photos, I mean, the interior photos, I mean, this there's debris and it's kind of disheveled. I don't see I mean, without walking through the building, it's hard to tell what the, you know, the structural issues are or how pervasive the issues are with the framing of the building. Um, I mean, the one one of the photos it looks like little paint job and you could move in, but obviously that's oversimplifying the situation.

It's definitely misleading because we would not recommend anyone walk through that building really. So, a site visit wouldn't be um appropriate in this case. recommend it. Yeah. So, where's Lee when you need him? Rehab costs are close to 722,000. Is that right? 72,000.

722 was the number including stabilization for the redevelopment of the building is represented here. I don't think any of us want to tear down a building. No. But, you know, Jack's recommendation about talking to the South End Corporation or something like that, it's just I don't know, maybe it's particularly a corner building.

We don't really I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. We don't um make these decisions lightly. Like we really try our best to um come up with alternatives, but because it's going to cost so much money to do this, it's been very difficult to find people willing to put that much money into it.

These these are the only two interior pictures that we could see. No, there are others. And if you look at that picture at the very bottom, you can see the chimney that at the very top it's actually leaning caving in. So it's everything is kind of caving in towards the center and the bricks are collapsing. The wall is leaning as well.

I mean there's two living rooms here. I haven't seen either one of them. Well, there's we can get we can't get all the way in. So, you have pictures just showing um the rooms that we can safely access. Have you never been in there? Yeah, I've been in there like it just up to a point because it's not it's not stable. Like I wouldn't recommend someone actually just kind of stroll through the building. It's it's in really bad shape. floors are rotted out or something. Yeah. Yes. Yes, they are.

Get a more comprehensive structural report from CT mail to give it a a look and you know document kind of the extent of damage.

That's a good idea. little structural reporter. Well, I think if I were the city councilman or the county uh uh county legislator, if I was the Southen Neighbor Association or the people who've been rehabbing things for a long time, I'd want to say something one way or the other on it and not find out by reading it in the news or seeing the demolition there. Definitely they should at least have an opportunity to speak, right?

If they say you should definitely restore it and you say it's going to be 722,000, we understand that. But they should at least have an opportunity, I think, to say that this is something that's significant for our neighborhood that desperately think it should be saved. Yeah. I mean, I don't know how old the building is. I could guess it's Oh, 1890s.

1890s and some comment would be would be appreciated from the people that are going to have to live with this and that's going to be the neighbors. And then in the more comprehensive structural report, we it sound like you would like to have detail of the proposed uh activities to like stabilize the property. Is that kind of what you're looking for? Well, the extent to which it needs to be stabilized.

Okay. I mean, if it's reconstruction of 100% of the foundation walls, then that's kind of a metric that would inform how serious it is and what kind of support and stability, temporary support would have to be entertained. I mean, if there are ways to repair the walls or reconstruct them either sequentially or in in part, then that at least gives you a better idea of how extensive the work is and then you know how much reframing needs to be done. We don't see collapsed floors, I don't think. But again, we haven't gone in with, you know, without, you know, having the the opportunity to enter the building, it's hard to tell what kind of shape it's in. I think the structure on the back that you said is leaning, is that a chimney? I don't know if it is. or the parapit like you can see it if you're standing on the Steven Street side of the building you see that black

it looks like a black box so that would structure that'd be a chimney behind enclosed back edition of some correct I mean I' I've got to think that I'm not sure what that is I was I drove by it walked around the building this afternoon and it looks like a a wood structure. Looks like a shed. Maybe the person who lived there had pigeons or something. I don't know. But that's real. But it is leaning. And does that mean that there's some roof failure that that's causing that lean causing it to to

I mean, is there any interior fireplaces exposed in there? There chimney elsewhere. Looking at the cornice, I would have to guess that the back section of the building could very well have been stacked porches that got enclosed and that the building actually ended the the body of the the building per se, the original building. Yeah. Ended where the cornice stops. Right.

Because I think there's another view that shows the cornice actually returns on itself. These are the only ones.

It's a little hard to tell. But it definitely that that end of the building somehow at one point architecturally. I mean there's no doubt it needs a substantial amount of work to to bring it back. It's just kind of feeling either comfortable with the the numbers or the summary decision that it's beyond salvage. It

it's it's always doubly sensitive to a neighborhood when you It's one thing when you're missing a missing tooth in a roll of houses. It's something that's that's much more serious when you lose a corner because you've just affect you've just affected four corners and two streets. Uh it's a it's a greater blow to a neighborhood to lose something on there. Well, across the street across the street is the uh the old school which we hope to be restored.

Yeah, I was going to ask about that where that would somebody's still working on it. Somebody's Yeah, he is working on it.

Brick is still exposed. Yeah. Um I will say that uh planning staff is recommending deferral of the application um with the request to have a full structural report submitted as well as um cost evaluation for stabilization and rehab specific to 452nd Avenue and not based on comps from other properties. That makes sense. Yeah.

Yeah. Thank you. It's I we have a good think we have a good understanding of what what you're looking for um for further evaluation. So appreciate it. Thank you. Okay. Well, we should make a motion on that. One person signed up for public comment and then Okay. You ready? All right. Uh um how you doing? Um John, Ola, John, and ola car. Carrie, how are you?

Am I Go ahead. Go ahead, Lee. You have You have the floor.

Okay, I'm the floor. All right. Well, I don't think the building should come down. I think that as everybody's, as the commissioners has said, it's a corner anchor. Um, I'm not there. I haven't walked around the building, but it appears that it's not in good shape, but it's not in horribly bad shape. If it was in horribly bad shape, it would have already fell down. Um I think more a more more structural analysis uh by CT male should be done. Um, I think that some minimal work, either tearing down that back edition, which John says could be some porches that that are now enclosed that has that has a a brick chimney on it. Um, leaning in it. I think that should come down. And either that comes down or the vegetation, all the um vegetation on that wall is removed to find out how bad that wall really is. I still think the chimney should come down and a new roof should be put on the building and um the openings um bought it up. I think that's the least that should be done until the building can be sold or enough money is acquired that uh it can be restored or rehabilitated. I I I am I am against um demolition. That's my take y'all.

Thanks Lee. Thank you Lee. Thank you.

Good thoughts Lee. And I apologize. Karen Mack is also signed up to speak. Go ahead. So I am from historic. I'm behind you guys so you can't see me. Um but I'm here with I haven't met you yet, but nice to meet you. Um I appreciate the conversation about the engineering that HF is basically going to ask for. just a more in depth engineering study and um we maybe make suggestion that we tap at it from putting together the stabilization and recloation numbers and systems. So many other projects for you guys and they used to do these fantastic um assessments of buildings for the first few waves of buildings and bank um and they were fantastic because they were kind of itemized for things that had to happen immediately, things that could happen down the road and things that were easy for a new owner to do. Um so having divided up so you could see what made the most sense to put money into um was really helpful given how much it is to rehab a lot of these buildings. We are very aware of the fact that you're not going to get $750 for a building like this if you put that much into it. While there are tax credits, it's still only 50% if you do commercial credits. And so while we are aware of that uh it is like you said obviously building though and that neighborhood has already lost so much and most district is gone and so one more building is is a much bigger loss. Uh we're very appreciative of the fact that if it does end up coming down there is already a plan to put in is going to sit there. Um, one of the things that we were looking to ask is if you are putting a new building back, is there a consideration for saving any key elements like the cornice, which is particularly striking and large, um, to incorporate into a new building. Um, so that there's something still left on that corner. Um, and that if there's

anything on the interior that could be salvaged from those photos, I'm going to go with no. Um, but you never know. Um, if there's anything that can be salvaged that it is just because material constantly fills up landfills and it would be better the warehouse behind reviewing whether or not this really is viable because it's not as straightforward as oh yeah it's really not in bad shape or no we can't get a reasonable return. There's a lot behind this. So thank you That is all of our public comment for this. Okay.

I'll entertain a motion in this regard if we think we are in a position to make one. We are. Yeah. Oh, you want me to put forth the motion? All right. I'm good at it. Okay.

Well, I'd like to put forth the motion to and let's not see it get knocked down. Oh, demolished. All right. and also request paperwork for the stabilization and a greater understanding of what the condition of the building is before it comes down and meeting with the south end association and get their thoughts input as well. Can I ask you to clarify? I want to clarify putting forward a motion to approve, deny or defer. Defer.

Defer. Defer. A motion has been made. Is there a second? Second. Okay. All those in favor of the motion as stated. I

I motion is carried. We look forward to I guess the next step or the next evaluation. If there's an opportunity at some point to safely visit the building, we certainly would, you know, be happy to entertain that motion or that notion as well. Sometimes you don't want our eyes on it. Sometimes you do want our eyes on it. So, thank you so much for your time.

No, thank you. I mean, obviously, if it weren't the land bank and were a private owner, the building probably, you know, we stand less of a chance and less of a a a real analysis and that's what we're looking for. So, a real analytic approach to this particular building. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Are there any other items that come before the commission?

Um, I just have a couple things. It sounds like most of you are aware that the statewide reservation conference is scheduled to take place in Coopertown April 15th through 17th. Um the registration is currently open and there are scholarships um for the attendance like in the past um for any CLG members if you do sign up for scholarship um that does include the one day um full training which does cover your training requirements. Okay.

You like any of those? But also just a reminder that if you do go, you have to be here on Thursday, April 16th for our historic resources. They do it every year. They schedule it at the same time. So hopefully is only about an hour 15 minutes. Yep.

Um but just a reminder that as well. So, um, and then today I have to go back and check with Cath Le because I did have to jump off early, but um, today was the first state review board meeting of 2026. Um, and the warehouse district, the Albony Industrial Warehouse District nomination um, for state and national register was on the agenda. It was discussed. Um, fingers crossed. I hope nothing there weren't any hiccups. It didn't sound like there were going to be any hiccups. So hopefully that passed the hurdle today of going to the state review board and we'll be on to the national parks for official designation

including the central warehouse. Including the central warehouse Jack. Yes. Even though we know that it is unfortunately going away, it was very important that it was included in the designation to recognize its significance to the city of Albany. Even if people think it's ugly, I think it is a lovely building. So, um, but Dan McKay, I remember when I got a fresh coat of paint. I know about 50 years ago. You're the Bible. Yeah. Yeah.

Um Dan McKay did a really nice kind of opening overview of things that are going on in the state of New York um to open the meeting this morning. Um and the one thing that he did bring up was that um he along with Daniel Mcini um were in DC for um preservation lobby week. Um, and New York State is leading in the use of the federal rehabilitation tax credits. And for fiscal year 2024 through 2025, there were $2 billion worth of rehab credits used in the state of New York.

Whoa. So, we are first within all That's great. all the United States, followed by the state of Ohio. So yeah. Okay. So that was some kind of great news. Very great. Um any comment on the ballroom, you know? Um notious.

Not from any um state employees. Um Wint Alrich um the ever active Win Aldridge. Um he did bring it forward um to kind of put it on record. There was no motion or any real, but he did bring it forward to um you bring up that there is also the ability for people to comment still on the um make their feelings known and there's the lawsuit. So, see where that goes.

Yeah. Sadly enough, the federal government department of defense, excuse me, war has just uh approved the demolition of the common dots. Um now, God knows when ever it's going to happen, but it's the common U building that you can see if you look carefully from the highway 787 for the the water arsenal

for the water bleed arsenal. And the reason I mentioned it is one of the things it has is a ballroom on the top floor. And it was made for public consumption for that that ballroom. It's a beautiful building. It's potentially in the way. There's no immediate plan to go and demolish it. In the way of what? whatever they decide to do, they they like to approve it in advance regardless of what you're going to do with it.

And the federal government governs the federal government, period. So, speaking of all, you know, there's some significant buildings over there campus. Y you know the whole officers in residential area complex really quite handsome. So that's all the news I have. Okay. Any word on the tutors?

Not that I'm aware of. Um um it my understanding is that it needs to be reintroduced by um Sergio Adams back to the um council for it to vote back the uh land use and economic development subcommittee which needs to make the motion out of subcommittee to the whole council for it to be voted on. Um, so it does we're still waiting for it to be reintroduced. Does our recommendation have an expiration date on it? Not that I'm aware.

Okay. So uh earlier before we met I was discussing we have this elaborate uh general survey which is not the same as an individual diagnosis of every single building but we are not expanding into the national register is essentially money. How much does it cost to put a building on the national register in terms of expertise that'll be acceptable to the state government? So, it cost us $50,000 to do the reconnaissance level survey

and that got 35,000 potential buildings. That's how it worked. it was closer to 37 100 parcels were all potentially eligible if somebody So it was $50,000 um to just do the reconidence level. Where did the 50,000 come from? So we got $30,000 from CLG funds and the other 20 was city map. That was just that was money that we so state it was state money. The 30 was state 30 was state money.

Um we have been having some discussions about kind of next steps. Um and we did just get information back from a consultant. Um, and just for a very small area, that's what I will say, in the area, it was going to be between 22 to $27,000. Um the 22 was if the state accepted the reconnaissance level survey as having enough sort of supporting documentation to just go to a national register nomination and that would be a year's process. The 27 to almost 28 I believe was for both doing an intensive level survey with a national register nomination wrapped into it and that would be about a year and a half to two and a half year process. Um so

is that for the entire 30 that's not for the entire that is for just that one. Very small section. Yes. Okay. I assume we're talking about Pine Hills, correct? Yes. Pine Hills. Yes. Can I ask which section of Pine Hills? I have a meeting with Boulevard. They want to be listed between Washington and Western. Um, that's not that's not the area. Yeah. Yes. If you'd like to join April 14th, I I would like to be included. Yeah. because I'll send you more info about it. Interesting.

The within the preservation plan, Manning Boulevard, especially with like the bridal path, we kind of kept that separate because we felt that if we had wrapped it into Pine Hills, it would kind of be overshadowed by the much larger neighborhood and that that that portion of Manning Boulevard kind of stands on its own.

Yes. Um, we did have discussions as part of the Pine Hills reconnaissance level survey as to should it have been included should the boundaries gone further up Western Avenue to encompass some of the other some other portions. Um, it is a recommendation that like the city if they go back to do further survey work consider expanding into some of these other areas. Um because what we had identified as pine hills within the preservation plan um I think we talked about this when Eastn Architects did the presentation back in October um of the survey findings was that those boundaries changed multiple times because there we couldn't get a consensus on what Pine Hills truly really is and like what people identify it as is very different than even just the historical development of that area. So, we did a much larger area um and had that area surveyed, but really those boundaries could change and are very are different depending on who you speak with. Oh,

is actually most interested in local, believe it or not. They're very concerned about a lot of changes that neighbors are making to make to their properties. And so local is actually great. Yeah. Can you send me the information? Yeah, I'll make sure it's on the calendar and we can put together any information that could help them make a decision.

I'll entertain a motion to adjurnn. So move second. All those in favor? I I thank you all.