Parks, Recreation & Open Space Commission - Regular Meeting

Everybody, I'm going to call to order the meeting tonight. Shall we have the roll call, please?

Commissioner Chang-Frank?

Here.

Commissioner Logan? Here. Commissioner Trinkle? Here. And Chair Abbott? Here. Commissioners Curtis-Chan, Commissioner Christopher Kent, and Commissioner Brian Martin are absent tonight.

All right, thank you. I will read the land acknowledgement. The city of Albany recognizes that we occupy the land originally protected by the Confederated Villages of Lejeune. We acknowledge the genocide that took place on these lands and must make strides to repay the moral debt that is owed to this indigenous people, specifically the Ohlone tribe. We thank them for their contributions, which have transformed our community and will continue to bring forth growth and unity. The City of Albany commits to sustaining ongoing relationships with the tribe and together build a better future for all that now make this their home. All right, first item is the approval of the minutes from the June 11th meeting. I'm happy to entertain a motion, should that arise. Remember, if you're not here, you can still vote.

I move to approve the minutes. Second.

Thank you. Commissioner Chang-Frank? Yes. Commissioner Logan?

Yes.

Commissioner Trenkle? Yes. And Chair Abbott?

Yes.

Thank you.

All right. Now it is time for public comments. So this is a time for folks online or here who wish to speak on something that's not on the agenda. I was about to say menu. On the agenda. So if you're here not to talk about one of the tree mold applications, now is your opportunity to stand up and tell us what you want to say. Very good. We have a taker. This is very exciting.

Very exciting. Phil Obard, this is adjacent to the tree removal issue. Okay, but it's not the tree removal issue. Fair enough. What this is, is I saw the tree removal thing and I thought, trees get diseased, they get dangerous, they got to come down. But we need to put up new trees. And I did a walk up and down Solano. I observed that there are places where there are four foot by eight foot cutouts in the sidewalk, where there clearly used to be a tree, but there's no tree. Nobody put a tree in to replace the old tree. And we should be putting up new trees, not just taking down old trees. So in front of Naomi's place, there's a five by 10 empty space. In front of Jewel at Jeweler, four by eight. In front of Duo Grill, that's the tree that's gonna be removed. Albany Bike Shop, there's a space. In front of the AT&T space, there's a space. There's also places where it's really clear that between five and 10 years ago, somebody, a board like yourselves, made a concerted effort to put up trees. You look in front of Yazza, Korean Superet, Nielsen Art, CVS, Five Tacos and Beers, and Citibank, and there are new trees. And so clearly we've done this in the past. My concern and in treating is that we continue to do this in the future, and that when we're taking down trees, we also do an inventory. We look and see what opportunities we have to put in new trees, either to replace a tree or in an empty space, as well as to look at our tree inventory. In the downhill part, there are some trees which clearly are never gonna grow to be more than eight foot high. Why do we have those trees? Maybe we should put in, oaks which in twenty years will be beautiful or maples or whatever but we should have a comprehensive plan for not just ad hoc removals but making sure this is a tree filled community twenty years from now thank you so much for your comment would staff like to respond to that yeah i can jump in and that's a very fair point uh... i would say we got in the situation we are right now uh...

because in 2019 we did a streetscape project which would fundamentally change a lot of the curb lines up and down Solano. And our thought was when we removed trees we didn't want to plant new trees to create a constraint to whatever plan would be developed. That's been stalled for about seven years now. So I think maybe this commission maybe needs to think about what we want to do in that space. Because we do want an integrated plan that might work with the future streetscape. So that's something we might want to think about.

Just the complete streets?

The complete streets. And in the ATP active transportation plan that was completed or adopted by council on Monday, there is a project out in the future to do some streetscape projects. That might be several years out still. So there might be some opportunity to do something in the interim, but it needs to be tied to a larger vision like was suggested. So that's a reasonable point.

I mean, additionally, I would say that every year the city plants over 100 trees and removes maybe 30. Probably 30 is a lot. I mean, here's harvest right here. We are planting a lot of trees and looking for opportunities to plant trees, but usually if there's not a tree, there's a reason.

And I think everywhere else in the city it's very easy when we take out a tree, we plant a tree. If not, it's usually within the next planting project. Solano is the one... deviation from that model and that's because we want to make sure it's integrated with the plan.

I didn't know that. That's interesting. Thank you.

I was just going to say I didn't realize that. That's new information for this commission but I do think it's something that's important because not only does it meld well with the whole a street tree, I can't remember the name of that plan, the inventory in the plan that we just created, but I think the public commenter made a good point. Solano's such a high profile place that I think it deserves a special treatment for our commission and transportation commission to consider.

This first came up, remember, maybe or five years ago when we had the big storms and lost a couple of trees and we did surveys up and down that. I think that's when that discussion came in of like, hey, let's not plant anymore because this is coming. And the idea was that this was going to be built by 2029. That's not gonna happen, so maybe it's time to rethink that approach.

They have inflatable trees? I mean, just temporary? No? Okay. All right, any other public comment?

No hands raised online.

All right. Thank you very much for your comment. Moving on. Presentations. No. Now we're on to the item 5-1, quarterly street tree removals. I believe we have a presentation from our urban forester.

All right, I'm John Hawkeridge, city's urban forester, city arborist. First up is A10 Jackson. Property owner submitted the application. Next slide. The tree has been in long, slow decline. The property owner informed me a couple years ago that he had arborists come and do work on the tree and fertilize the tree and all kinds of things, which may or may not have helped. But at this point, the tree's kind of beyond repair. Next slide. Some other issues. with the tree that didn't necessarily lead to its demise but are not good practices such as screwing things into the trunk of the tree or hammering stakes into the base of the tree. Next slide. Um, the tree, another thing is planting plants, but people do that, and once a tree is established, we're kind of okay with plants being put in a basin. And this basin is a nice-sized basin. Um, great place for a good replacement tree.

Next slide.

Okay, I mentioned the pruning won't fix this tree. This picture's a little bit more recent, and this spring it kind of came out a little bit, but it's a lot of epicormic sprouting where the tree's on its last gasp trying to reproduce foliage to give it some energy. To prune this, to fix it, wouldn't work because there's no good branching unions to prune back to. All we'd be doing is pushing the stub cuts back from the previous stub cuts that you can see on the screen. Next. So this is the tree this winter. It looks more like the last picture now, but there's no turning back and reestablishing this tree. So this tree is I recommend removal. We're approving the application. This tree falls under tree policy criteria 2.1a, dead, dying, damaged beyond reclamation.

And can you say a word about the policy about replacement, just considering the recent discussion? The policy for replacement, just considering the recent question.

Oh, when we remove a tree, we replace a tree unless there's a good reason to not remove a tree. And the north, no, the eastern part of Solano, Upper Solano, is the one area where we haven't been replacing, but just about every place else, unless a tree's planted on a corner where it shouldn't have been planted,

And just for my knowledge, so you consult with the property owner and they choose from the approved tree list. Is that the way that works?

Generally, yes. Is there a cost involved for them? There's no cost for any removal, stump grinding. We purchase a tree, have it planted. And initial watering, but then it's up to the property owner to water it the first few years to get it established.

By the way, we've moved into commission questions apparently. Okay, no, great, thank you.

we're just going to take it one by one i think so because there's yeah i just have a question about the the little stubs so does it look like somebody's just hacked at it at some point in in the past it does look like that but i don't know i can't tell for sure what the history of this tree was i'm guessing that it had been dying back a little bit and the property owner had somebody prune back the dead stuff and it just kind of they didn't I don't know if they caused that, you know, I don't know if it was initially stubbed or they're just trying to leave what's still alive and they just had no place, no better place to cut back to.

It doesn't look as obvious as some of the other ones, I guess.

There are smaller branches, but every single branch has been cut back. Yeah. Any other questions from the commission?

How close to the lines will the tree be? And is there anything governing?

to the lines in this photo. It's somewhat irrelevant. There's a low voltage power lines. We don't necessarily need clearance unless there's a lot of strain, abrasion on the wire. In other words, the tree's threatening to break the wire, in which case we would prune it clear of that.

All right, any other questions?

I was going to say, I'm going to abstain from commenting about this tree because that's my family friend's house.

Okay. Fair enough. Appreciate that. Appreciate that. If we vote, it will still be a quorum? I don't think it is.

I'm not sure about that. That's interesting. Are you within the area? Then she can vote. You can vote. She just doesn't. It's fine. If she doesn't want to comment, she doesn't have to comment, but she can still vote.

So the thing about recuse yourself is you can't advantage economically. So unless your friend is going to pay you somehow for your vote, I don't, you know, it can't benefit like your property value or something is what they're worried about for the recusal stuff. Okay, very good. But very thoughtful. I appreciate that. Yeah. A little drama for your last meeting.

Okay.

With that, I think we can open for public comment. Anybody who would like to speak on this item? Anybody online?

I was waiting a second to see if anyone raised their hands. As of right now, no hands are raised online.

Okay. One more comment. The property owner sent an email. Yes. Did it get to everyone?

Yes.

I believe so. Did anybody see that?

It came. I know I posted the public comment today. I'm not sure I got the email, but I did see the comment. Okay.

Yeah.

I don't know if you guys received the email because it was just to Urban Forestry, but I posted it earlier today.

He basically said what I just said, but made it sound worse. Yeah.

Yeah. I didn't realize it was the property owner. I thought it was just somebody. But that's great. Yeah. Okay. No, it's... He was for the removal. He was for the removal. Yes. Okay. Bring it back to the commission for discussion. Yeah. This seems pretty cut and dried to me. I mean, literally, I suppose. So I'll entertain a motion, unless there's more discussion.

A motion to recommend approval for removal.

I'm gonna move that we approve the application for removal.

I second that. Thank you. Commissioner Chang-Frank? Yes. Commissioner Logan? Yes. Commissioner Trinkle?

Yes.

And Chair Abbott? Yes. Motion passes to have 810 Jackson Street tree removed.

Very good.

Next on the item on the list. Next, we go back to Solano Avenue. 1491 Solano Avenue, Nichols Willow Leaf Peppermint, large eucalyptus trees, one of the large eucalyptus trees on the street. It's the tree that is planted in front of the Duo Grill, in between the Duo Grill and its parklet. uh... the tree has been causing swelling uh... next slide the tree right next slide that's the tree next slide the tree's been causing swelling of the sidewalk and the curb and the pavement this picture if you're looking at kind of the horizon of the sidewalk you should be able to see the sidewalk beyond that it's a big hump that's from the tree roots also it's lifting it towards the building to where in the winter rainwater has been running into the next from the other direction the red line across is kind of a hinge where the sidewalk or the lift begins on that and Go back a couple steps.

I have the sidewalk design that I can show, too, if you want to look at that.

Okay. What I did mention is the sidewalk is up for repair, which is why we're bringing this today.

Do you want me to give a run through the background on what we're planning to do? before I get to it. Okay. All right, you can see this. So this was brought to us by the property owner of the building that Duo grills in. And what's happening is water's coming down here and flowing into this door. And you can see, probably better on John's figure, they have a little two-by-four to block the water away. And a couple things have happened. Water's been getting in there causing damage as well as They were telling me that it was noted in their fire inspection that that's blocking an exit, which is causing some problems for them. So the idea is that they brought to us that we need to figure out how to correct this issue. John worked with James Sorelli who runs our sidewalk program and looked at the grades and looked at some options to try to fix it and really the only way due to the limited size is to reestablish the grades such that water is flowing away from the rate way from the buildings into the curb and gutter uh... as was originally designed you'd see this from this red shaded areas the extent of sidewalk that's going to be replaced so they're really correct the grades here you have to really start way back uh... one property to the will uh... to the east and then go past the property on the on the uh... western side and then we are reestablishing all this curb in gutter through this area uh... Because that gets the grade down. And so that really means that we're going to do a fair amount of root pruning basically all around the tree to get those grades. Otherwise, it's just going to push the water back into the buildings the way we're doing it. or the way it's currently happening. This went to council for approval and is in the package, sidewalk package that's already out for bid. So the idea that we would, if approved, would get done October, November before the holidays. quite a choreographed piece of work that we're going to have to do because the property owner also has to fix their sewer lateral that we want to incorporate on this. We have to move the parklet out of the way to do the work and then take the tree down, do the work, and then put it all back together. So it's quite an intricate project. I think that's the context. And then John has been working with James to understand the impacts of the trees, which John is gonna go through.

Okay, can we get back to the other?

Get back to the, yes.

So while we're getting there, basically the issue is that to bring the sidewalk back to grade with the correct slope, we're going to be cutting deep into the roots of this tree. So the arrows point to the wood, the two by four on the right side. And the other arrow shows that the tree has pretty much filled the planting space there. It also shows, next slide, that there's a lack of a root flare. A healthy tree will have a root flare at ground level. That indicates that at some point this sidewalk was replaced maybe a couple times as this tree was growing up. There's some damage there. Next slide. Here you can see, again, there's no root flare on this tree, which is a concern. Back in 2022, I think, we had the cyclone storms that blew a couple of these trees over. We had some tree risk assessments done on all of the trees on Solano, all of this species of tree. uh... our first assessment found that this tree heads no root flare and find roots they found the curling route next slide and they found some while they took down that they can see you can only you can sort of see the uh... Bottom of the trunk is curved in there, so there was a sidewalk kind of girdling that tree at some point, and it got taken out. basin, I imagine, was expanded. But it left some damage. The girdling root is probably part of that. There's some decay that was found. And you can see in this, they dug down a little bit so they can see what it looks like to see if there was actually a root flare. But that tree goes down further before that tree starts flaring out. We don't know how far, but that right there is not a good sign on this.

Next slide.

So the first assessment done in July 2023, the consultants found this tree at an extreme high risk rating. We wanted to get a second opinion. We wanted to be sure before we started taking down these kind of landmark trees along Solano. So we had a second opinion. Next slide. Well, this is still from the first. This is where they found the decay, about 14 to 18 inches into the trunk of the tree. And the next slide. And this is from the second assessment where they also found decay. They determined about 20% decay, 14 to 18 inches in the trunk of the tree. However, they also recommended some pruning work to be done on the tree as a way to try to keep the tree for a little bit longer. So we did the pruning work. We felt okay with that until this issue with the sidewalk lifting and the rain flowing into the business.

Next. So

an overview of the tree. To do root pruning on this would cause a lot of damage to the tree. There's really no room, there's not enough room to, there's not enough room to do root pruning on the tree. The general guidelines for root pruning is six inches to 12 inches. away from the tree for every inch diameter of the tree. This is a 41-inch diameter tree, so we're talking six times 41, 240-something, 50 inches away from the tree. Or for every 12-inch diameter of a tree, not closer than five times the diameter of the tree. So there's really not room to do root pruning. We're not sure what we're going to find, but roots are going to need to be pruned on the north side, the south side, and more than likely on the north and south, east and west side as well, and able to replace the sidewalk. So... This tree meets the criteria 2.1 damage beyond reclamation and 2.1a and 2.1d where severing roots will result in tree instability. We recommend approval of the application.

Thank you very much. Questions from the Commission?

Yeah, I have a question because that assessment was done, and I appreciate that you got the second opinion. So high-risk assessment done years ago, and then recommendations for mitigation of the pruning, which you did do. So have we had an updated assessment of the health of the tree?

We did, and it was the same Berkeley Hort Science group who did the second recommendation with the second assessment with the recommendation for pruning. And their assessment this time was that the tree is still in the same condition. There's still some decay. There's still root damage. They didn't recommend removing the tree, but with the work that will be done, that's going to further damage the tree. So we're taking their recommendation. We're looking at this as a... a higher risk of liability to the city if we try to cut the roots on this tree and leave it.

Right, but it's a higher risk because we're going to cut the roots. So I'm not saying I totally get it. I mean, we don't want a risk to the city. I understand that. And I also understand that there's this problem for a business owner for having water drift in. I don't know if that was one of the reasons that we, was that an instigation for this?

That's what triggered this. That's what triggered this. But for that issue, we would have left this tree. And you wouldn't have done that? We wouldn't do the root pruning. Right, oh. So fixing the sidewalk to fix the drainage issue.

Which is caused by the tree.

Yeah, dries the root pruning, which then... degrades the tree and really makes us... No, I totally understand that.

I'm wondering, did you all identify this as a problematic sidewalk site from the owner, from the business owner, or from just your own assessment?

So this was brought to us by the business owner. If you look at it from strictly, like most of the other sidewalk repairs we do are based on sort of ADA requirements. So if you look at offsets and things of that, this isn't that's not a driver for this. The driver is that water is flowing back into the building, which isn't something that's really assessed on the ADA side of things.

Yeah, I mean, I just, I'm assuming that you've done some of their analysis to see if there's any other mitigation that can be done.

We looked at this upside down around, we tried every other way to do it, and it's one of these very difficult situations where there's really not a lot of room to do, to make accommodations, and the steep slopes don't help us here.

Yeah, I know. It's funny because this view to me is one view which already shows how big it is, but I looked at the Google Maps street view and it shades like a half block. It's a beautiful tree. And so it's a big shame to have to... all the things and i feel like you know we it's great that we have some people here tonight but it's it's gonna affect the community you know it's like a place where people i sit and have breakfast there like you know several times a month the kind of thing right right out there so it's just something to i just it's just interesting it's a big and it's kind of funny because this is causing that is causing that like and i don't know how many times i've driven by that and that this tree has not

figured something out, wow, we need to do something over there until this issue was brought to us.

Especially after we lost two similar sized trees on the same block in the last few years.

And then when we had the assessments done, we had a couple more removed because we found decay. And this isn't the last one that's going to come up. This is for now. But these trees are old. There's one, there's a few that are looking, they look worse than this tree right now. I don't know how many times I flip-flopped on this with Mark.

Maybe we could save this.

But the root pruning won't...

Right. No, I totally get the blueprint.

I do want to avoid discussion. Okay, that's discussion. Yeah, yeah. I'm asking questions. I'm sorry.

I just realized that we kind of— Okay, so I do have a question, though. Yeah, very good. And I don't want to let other people have a question. Was there any other engineering analysis, like just in terms of like— James looked at a number of different options to route water around that.

Yeah, exactly. And it just doesn't work. Okay. Part of the reason about that is each of the doors has thresholds. You have a set elevation at the building and a set elevation on the other side. There's not a lot of room to do anything.

You can't put a ramp because there's not enough room.

Because there's no room. There's no place to put a ramp.

Then it would be an ADA issue. Then it would be an ADA issue, yeah.

This is a really tricky location, unfortunately.

Other clarifying questions? No? Okay. We can open this up for public comment if anybody would like to comment on this item here or online.

We do have a hand raised online, but I'll get to them after our speaker here. Thank you.

Great, thank you. I live right on the border of Albany and El Cerrito, so I frequent Solano Avenue all the time and very familiar with this tree and just wanted to, I saw the notice on the tree, appreciate you giving notice because I wouldn't have known about it, but I'm just very, very strongly opposed to this tree being removed. It's good to get the explanation tonight or the reasons, but frankly it doesn't really seem that great of a reason just because one business owner is... I mean, I don't know how bad the drainage problem is. It sounds like you have looked at it fairly extensively, but it seems like there should be another solution to this. I mean, even if just to do the sidewalk and then see how it goes before removing the tree, I mean, as... THE COMMISSIONER COMMENTED HERE, MS. FRANK, THIS IS A VERY, VERY LARGE, HEALTHY, BEAUTIFUL TREE. PROVIDES A LOT OF AMENITIES FOR THE STREET AND IT WILL DRAMATICALLY CHANGE THE COMMUNITY. WE HAVE LOST A BUNCH OF LARGE TREES ON SOLANO. so it just kind of seems frankly like there's a war on trees going on and it's just it's just very distressing to see this like and if there's any way to save this tree and what I'm hearing tonight is not compelling to me quite frankly but so anyway I just wanted to convey that to you and appreciate you taking my comments thank you very much for your comment any other comments on this item please

sort of comment slash question is that we've talked about like losing a bunch of large trees where all these sort of planted was there like a period in 1937 when all these trees went up and they're just all reaching the end of their useful lives that's one question and when we plant new trees presumably we're going to plant trees which have tap roots and won't have roots that spread sideways, and which would be better for our sidewalks and stuff, and so there's a way forward if we end up cutting this down. So one question is, when will all these large trees be planted? And the other question is, is this water issue such that All the trees on the north side of Solano, like the water will always drain for all of them into these businesses. And so is this a refighting geography? Or is this something where all the other businesses up and down the street have figured out a way to have their businesses and not have water? What's different about these guys? Those are questions.

Thank you. We can see if there's any other comments before we answer the questions if we want to.

There is a hand raised on line.

Very good.

Christopher, go ahead.

Thank you very much. Yeah, I just want to add my voice as somebody who walks these couple blocks very frequently. There's really, from my memory, there's only like two blocks. I think it's from Santa Fe past the Safeway, which you can see in the picture, where you have these spectacular, I really love these trees, these spectacular tall willow leaf peppermints. And this is one of the more spectacular ones, also one in front of the Safeway. And as people have said, you've already lost, there was another one in front of Renee's Place, which is just to the west, a couple of storefronts to the west. And that area to me has lost all its character and charm. These trees bring so much charm and character and feeling to mid Solano Avenue that Berkeley doesn't have. And oh my God, lower Solano with those cherry trees. I'm not going to say anything mean, but it's just these trees. sense of identity and community and beauty to this mid or upper section of Solano. So I also would question, like, really, the drainage cannot be figured out to save this tree. I understand it's an old tree, but again, I'm repeating myself. I'm sorry. This is going to be a huge loss, and I've seen what happens in front of Renee's place to this block, this part of the block where these wonderful trees are removed. It changes the character, and it's a huge loss, and I feel very sad. I'm not going to stop going to the stores, but I just really would ask you... Does this really need to be done? Is there some other way? I know I've heard you all, but it's just, these trees are magnificent and they give so much character to the Albany section of Solano that this midsection that no other part of the street has because of these trees. Anyway, so I think I've said my piece. wish you could save this tree and the other. I love these eucalyptus, Nikolai. And thank you for what you're doing. And thank you for putting in, you know, looking and trying to see how you can save trees. I appreciate the process and thank you for allowing me to comment.

All right. Thank you very much. Any other comments in the room or online? No other hands are raised online. Okay. Bringing it back for discussion, did you want to answer some of the questions or did we want to answer some of the questions?

I can maybe jump in on the questions. The first one was on planting future trees. What trees are we going to plant? That was actually part of the reason of... delaying planting until we could do it in the context of the streetscape so that we can design in tree wells and select trees that will work for the long run. So that was some of the thought. That's clearly what we want to do and plant trees that will be there for a long run and not have these types of problems. with respect to the question about the drainage is happening other places, everything's a little unique because where the uplift is depends on the slopes and where the landings are and where that is with the doorway. So we haven't seen this issue elsewhere. So I think this is just a unique case where things are lining up the way they are.

Anything to add to it?

There was also the question about if all these trees were planted at the same time. John could probably.

It seems so. I don't think anyone in this room was here at the time. But looking at old photos, it seems like 60s, 70s, these trees were all planted at all about the same time. And that's been an issue with a lot of different species. In the past, now we're planting continuously. Every year there's planting, so we're going to have a staggered age urban forest in 20 years from now. But in the past, there were kind of planting projects. Let's plant 1,000 trees, and they all got planted the same tree. Maybe not a good – there were several that we don't plant anymore because they weren't good species choices to begin with.

All right. All right.

I'll just add, we're looking at better species, too. We're looking at species that... Different species affect sidewalks in different ways. These were remarkable in the way that they've grown to this size. and haven't really destroyed sidewalks like some other species maybe are half the size and are ripping up sidewalks left and right. So we're looking at species that are more well suited to our climate, to the changes in our climate, and for specific locations for specific trees.

More discussion?

Yeah, I mean, I would just say I appreciate the question and the answer, but I think that I want to honor the comments that people have made about the beauty and what this tree currently provides, because no matter what tree you planted, it would be another 100 years or something, 70 years before it got to be that beautiful. Tall of a tree wouldn't provide that much canopy and aesthetic so maybe at least 50 John you could tell us but not Not not leave not in my lifetime. It would So most of us might not be around here when it when it actually I need to take but but I guess I just want to honor that first because no matter what we plant it's IT WON'T MITIGATE THE LOSS TO THIS TREAT OF THE COMMUNITY. FOR A GENERATION. AND SO I DO WANT TO TAKE SERIOUSLY WHAT THE COMMENTS WERE, TOO, BECAUSE I APPRECIATE THAT THE ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT HAS LOOKED AT THIS, BUT I FEEL LIKE, OH, JUST ONE PERSON KIND OF LOOKED AT IT. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE REALLY DO A FULL ANALYSIS, REALLY DO A FULL ANALYSIS WHAT OTHER PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENTS HAVE tackled this kind of issue, what some creative solutions may be. And then the other thing is, not that I don't trust that there has been some drainage damage to the business owner, but have we seen how much damage and picture? I just would wonder about that, too, because, and I know I'm going on and on, but just from hearing you, John, say that you're wavering back and forth, hearing that there is remediation done and the tree's actually better now and they wouldn't recommend it for removal, it does seem like rather hasty to just say, okay, well, let's still do, let's still just cut it back and repair this and all the things. So I just, given all of that and the outpouring from, the people that have made those comments represent a larger portion of the population that may also be like, what happened to this tree? What happened? So I would just hope we as a commission Can take some more time and we as a city can take a little more time to investigate whether or not there could be any other action taken to help this business owner So that's that's my I've gone back and forth for the same reasons because I look at the tree It's a big beautiful tree.

It's you know, it's It's the Solano its character and But every time I kind of tried to force myself to say we need to try to save this, I talked to James. Went out there and looked at it. He showed me different alternatives. Kind of gullying down the middle of the sidewalk didn't work. Any other solution that he thought might have been possible would still entail root pruning on the tree. sidewalk and the curb and there'd be reprinting on all sides of the tree and it's uh i don't i don't know there's there's much much other choice here the the uh the width of the sidewalk too prevents arcing out you know what we usually do when we do sidewalks we push the sidewalk back there's not room to push the sidewalk back especially on solano busy street inch point. I'm not sure what the width is there. It's about four feet now, I think. So yeah, it's a tough decision.

So can you help me understand something? So you said that the root ball, or not ball, the root flare is buried. Yes. So there is a root flare. It's just down below.

We presume, because as that tree grew, it grew with a root flare like almost any other healthy tree you see.

And so then the roots grow up? I guess they're chasing water. So they go up to damage the sidewalk? Because it seems like if the roots are six inches down, you might be able to remove the sidewalk and see that, well, wait a minute, there might be room.

Well, when you bury the root flare of a tree, you create conditions for fungal growth. And there is decay found in the tree, mostly on the north side, but there's decay. There's visible damage when they hand trowel around the base of the tree. You can see there's visible damage around the base of the tree. The roots, every tree is different. We don't know exactly where those roots are going. I'm surprised myself that the property owner didn't claim that there was damage to the foundation or the floor of his shop there. Where I live, I have a redwood tree in front that's cracking the garage, and I can't close the garage door all the way. I have to adjust the cement in the garage door constantly.

So is it possible to remove the sidewalk and get a better idea before we remove the tree? I mean, we can't really x-ray it, but could we... I'm sure that really complicates the process. I'm sure it's three different visits or something rather than one.

I think one of the things we're struggling too, if we remove the sidewalk and that's closing the business for a period of time.

But I'm wondering, though, if there could be some more analysis done on, was it his door threshold? How is the water coming in?

Through the door, where the, here, if we go back, it goes, nope, back, back, back. There you go. I'm like, it's catching up. Through here. That board right there, water flows down there and gets into that door right there.

You can't do it, go ahead.

Totally appreciate it. We really have looked at this and I'm not sure what else we can do to do this. And our concern is if we do the root pruning and this, it's not like the tree is going to give us a signal that it's going to fail. And given where it is, we had a tree right near the fly fish store come down a couple years ago. There was no sign of it. It just went over. And what I'm worried about, if we root prune this to establish it, we don't know what's going to happen and we'll find out what happens after it falls. And that could be...

My concern is we remove the tree and then we bring up the sidewalk and say, oh, well, look at that. The roots are a foot down. We could have just dug down. We didn't need to prune the roots.

It's unlikely. Unlikely. We could look at something from a construction.

This week, and I can go sledgehammer those two panels of the sidewalk there, we can have our answer. Oh, I should have told you.

You get an idea of where the roots are by the swelling. I mean, the swelling is all around this tree.

No, I understand. We're just trying to respond to the desire to keep this tree, which I believe we all share. We're not... We don't be hasty. We don't do it.

I'm actually not just talking about the sidewalk, though. I'm talking about the threshold. If there's anything about the threshold or the slanting of how if you were to even just repave without the sidewalk and slanting it the other way... I'm just saying. And the reason I'm saying this is if we're making a decision here for whatever 150-year-old tree, no? 75? I don't know.

60, 70, so 50-ish.

Okay, 50 years, sorry. But I'm just wondering if there's any other thinking that can be done, any other second opinion that can be done just to look at the threshold and look at how it might be, configure it otherwise.

And I would even say a second opinion to reassure the public that we've done everything we can. More than just, there may be an answer, but even if not, we want to make sure people understand we do really take this seriously. I can reopen public comment if you'd like to step up and have something to say.

I'm just thinking... I've seen houses or whatever where they just have a grate at the front of the door with a drain under it, a French drain underneath. That's what comes to my mind, as well as there are people in Miami and Louisiana and Alabama who deal with this stuff all the time. I mean, we don't have to deal with it because we're in Albany, California. The notion of keeping the water out of your front door It's like there are lots of really smart engineers who have thought about this in lots of other parts of the country.

Okay, thank you. Thanks for your suggestion. We can close public comment again. Alright, very brief. This is the hazard of reopening public comment.

You also have a hand raised on that.

Yeah, well, I see how it's sloping down there. Well, I guess that's because there's a raised thing, but yeah, it seems like there should be an engineering solution to this, and You know, Commissioner Frank also raised a great point about, well, what is the actual damage? Like, I don't, I mean, do we even know? Like, not to say that, you know, we should tolerate damage, but, you know, if it's just, you know, relatively minor, it seems like, yeah, we should do more due diligence. So thank you very much.

A hand. And then we're closing. Last comment. Carol, go ahead. Appreciate your comments.

Carol? You're still on mute, Carol.

How's that?

Yes, we can hear you.

Okay, thank you. Well, I'm pretty sure Mark would confirm because we've had a lot of discussion with him and he's been so helpful to us. Karen Hollweg, Business of the drainage into the restaurant you can't really perceive it here, but there's about a three inch. Karen Hollweg, Well that's that's exaggerated the the the baffle that has been put up stop the water from running in is a tripping hazard it blocks a fire door there's no way to regrade. to get back down to the level. And the whole thing is the sidewalk is noticeably tipped. Also, the sidewalk is damaged, which is a tripping hazard for the public and a big tripping hazard where we have to have that barrier. The water, In the heavier rains we had this year, the restaurant owner was beside himself trying to keep the water out of the restaurant. The other really serious issue for us, which doesn't seem to matter to you folks, the sewer situation desperately needs to be improved and And we've already, about four or five years ago, we did a huge sewer improvement of the line into the building. It was also remarkably blocked by this tree roots. And the... The project then was very, very expensive. We had to tear up the floor in the restaurant and all the way out to the street. Now we have to go from the curb out to the city's sewer, and the project for us to do that is planned for the city's repaving that is coming up this fall. And that connection is also going to be an expensive project. Will mean digging up the. The pavement in the side in the street, as well as whatever connection is going to have to happen. At the sidewalk, but and the fact that the. The parklet will have to be moved, all that kind of stuff. It's going to be very expensive. If it can't be done all in one fell swoop, if we have to go through another assessment and wait for the right conditions another time, it's just not going to be a very feasible arrangement. The tree, I'm pretty sure, came up in about 1970. So we've lived with it for already 60 years. There's been problems with the insurance agent and the size of the tree, which we managed to accommodate for the insurance. But the tree is a really big problem. We'd love to be able to graduate to a tree that is more respectful of the sidewalk and the sewers. And I do hope that we will have the support of the commission and the following Mark Hurley's and John Ockridge's suggestions to get this done.

Okay.

Thank you.

I put now this is the property owner. Yeah. Um, more discussion. Thank you for your comments all.

Um, I was just going to ask, um, how, like how bad would you say that the decay is like without the, like ignoring the water issue, like how bad is the tree on its own?

It has decay. One of our consultants did a resistograph testing, which is kind of like a radar, kind of sending a signal through the tree. And they found a 20% decay. One of the slides shows exactly where the decay is in the tree. pruning Will lead to more decay you cut cut roots and they decay back We on a lot of trees will do root pruning and leave the tree because there's other roots supporting the tree. It's a smaller tree and There's time for new roots to grow out on this tree with a Storms coming up. We're supposed to be going into an El Nino year this year. It leaves this tree as a high risk for the city.

So it's probably just going to keep getting worse.

So it'll get worse. It won't get better. One thing, the more recent track assessment said that the crown is thinned a bit. So that's the only... addition to their original assessment, but that's showing that the tree is slowly going into a decline.

Okay. So even without the water problem, it will have to be removed eventually?

Eventually, yeah. I think we wouldn't be pushing for it right now because we wouldn't have to do root pruning and further damage the tree. But all of these trees, as I mentioned before, one by one, these are slowly going to be removed. And I don't think we're going to replant the same tree. So the character of Solano Avenue is changing. It's going to change. It's always changing. There's never going to be a set pattern of trees that are there forever.

Do you have an idea? I mean, I'm sure you hate questions like this. How long could the tree go on as is? I know you can't answer that question.

Yeah, I really can't. I mean, we can go and keep pruning it and thinning the canopy, and that pushes the decline a little further every time we do that to reduce the weight on the the canopy of the tree.

But we're looking at continual slow decline at this point.

I think one of the things that we've done in the past and we want to continue to do is do surveys on these trees and come back to the commission and talk about where they are and what's declining and what visual, you know, what we see in the trees so we can make decisions that aren't like this reactive type. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So... that's that's something we plan to do and we've done in one there's only so I mean things like this all we are gonna come up that's just all there is to it but at least then we have more a larger context to look at look at them in yeah the comments discussion anybody feel like making a motion

I mean, I think, I don't exactly know what my motion, what the request would be, but I think my motion would be to do further analysis of whether or not there's any other grading solutions, engineering grading solutions, for this, whether it be, I know it's hard to do a whole RFP process, but whether it be another Public Works, somebody else, a consultant of some sort that could provide some more analysis so that we really are responding to the public's request to make sure that this is the right decision. So that would be my motion.

That would necessarily have to delay things a lot.

Yeah, it wouldn't necessarily have to delay things, exactly. Right, because it was a fall deadline, is that right?

My guess is if we go on another analysis, we're going to miss this construction and it'll be pushed into 2027. Because we, along Solano, we really try to shut down construction November for the holiday season, so...

Yeah, I'm still going to make the motion. Fair enough.

I just wanted to respond to the, this isn't something that we can just jump out and get another engineer, get a survey and develop options, talk about the options. That's going to take a while.

I don't even know if it necessarily has to be engineering. I mean, some other sort of second opinion on mitigation measures for this property owner. Honestly, I don't know what that would look like. So it's unfortunate that I don't know what it would look like, so I can't really propose something specific. But some further professional analysis.

And I would say we have had a number of people look at it. I mean, Mark isn't exactly nothing. No, I understand. Well, it was James. We have experts. You were saying James, yeah. We have experts. I mean, you know. And John. Right. Certainly, everybody wants to save this tree if they can. Right. They have been trying and trying to find a way. I'm very confident they've been trying to find a way.

And just for context, we've been... and working on this trying to find options for lease I think this first came to us in February. So we've been trying to work.

So this isn't something we've- Yeah, I mean, it would be awful for us to sometimes hear about that earlier so that we can weigh in earlier. So this is like very last minute, like we have to move from, you know, it's in a public process earlier too. So I think that's the problem when we get this so late. Then it's like these timelines that we could have actually- you know, had a more thorough process for. So I'm still going to make the motion to do some sort of secondary analysis, professional analysis, to see if there's any other solutions that could be met so that the property owner doesn't have this, bear this cost of flooding, but that we're sure we're making a good decision before cutting down this tree.

Anybody want to second this motion? No.

So the option was recommended for removal. So I think your recommendation should say it's not recommended for removing. So would anybody like to second her recommendation for not having it removed?

Denying the application.

For denying the application. If not, would anybody like to motion for recommending the removal?

Not seeing a second, I think the motion dies and we move on.

I recommend that the tree be removed. Would anybody like to second that?

You're going to be out of town.

I will second it. Okay. Commissioner Chang-Frank? No. Commissioner Logan?

Yes.

Commissioner Trinkle?

No.

And Chair Abbott?

With a huge regret, yes.

So I'm assuming that means motion passes? That's correct. Okay. Motion passes to have this tree removed. It's a shame. It really is a shame.

So you mentioned the sidewalk work. We heard at the meeting the other night they're not going to change the curb lines. I mean, they're pretty set on that. Is that new?

That does change.

So could we get some potentially some...

So that's a different topic, but I think we could look at getting some sort of PLANTING SCHEME, YOU KNOW, AND I THINK ONE THING WE'VE HEARD IN THE PAST ON THESE SORT OF ROADS, WE WANT TO HAVE SORT OF A COMMON NARRATIVE. SO I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING WE COULD PROBABLY START WORKING ON AS A COMMISSION.

BECAUSE I THINK THE PUBLIC WOULD FEEL A LITTLE BETTER AT LEAST IF THEY SAW NEW TREES GOING IN. ABSOLUTELY. THAT'S PART OF WHAT'S FRUSTRATING.

AND ALSO TREES THAT HAVE SOME GROWTH, MATURE CANOPY POTENTIAL BECAUSE IT WAS NOTED THAT OUR ANALYSIS, WE REALLY HAVE AN UNDER

Yeah.

Yeah.

And enlarging the spaces if we can. Yeah. All right. OK. Moving on then to 965 Talbot.

OK. 965 Talbot was applied for by the property owner. It's an aristocrat pair, which is slightly different from a Bradford pair. Excellent the property owner was concerned about the lean of this tree And they said that trucks are hitting branches And they've hit hit it with their cars their cars Mira. I imagine hit the tree a couple times They said the lean is Getting greater Excellent but the treatment with the leanest office history here is i took a picture right on the curb line and it is leaning into the street a little bit uh... it's not that excessive in my opinion uh... that the means about a ten degree lean would you say as an engineer sure that's about 10 degree lean and for a tree lean 10 degree is considered low just hitting the moderate risk threshold um next picture next slide Here's the tree in March of last year in the winter and the leaves you can see the lean You can see that the canopies of mess next slide We go back to June 2022. The tree still had a lean three, four years ago now. I don't see it increasing that much. If any, maybe a little bit here. Next slide is January 2018. This is a weird angle. These are all Google Street View history photos. Kind of a weird angle. It makes it look like it's leaning more than it is, but I don't think it lessened its lean and then increased its lean. past eight years. Next slide. And going back to 2011, you can see that the tree was leaning and between then and now there is a little bit of an increase in lean, but it's not enough. It's not actively leaning. Next slide. So back to this current, more current photo I think this tree can be saved. I think we can do some reduction pruning. That circled section in the photo definitely needs some thinning out and some cutting back, especially since it's on the lean side of the tree. It's just too dense. It can be easily pruned and thinned out and give this tree some more life. Next slide. Oh, that's it. You can go back. So in my opinion, this tree doesn't meet the tree removal criteria, and I recommend denying the application on this one.

All right. Any questions from the commission? That is a tiny cutout. It's like just an inch on either side of the curb, that one picture. There's the one picture of the street view picture. Is that accurate? The curb cut?

Not the cutout, but that it's growing out of.

The curb cut, yeah. And the cement along the planting strip is lifted from the tree. That's something. I just wonder if we make that bigger. That's a separate issue that can be addressed.

It can be made bigger a little bit. Yeah, that's all I'm thinking. Okay. Other questions?

I believe the lift is from root growth. Sure, sure. It's not from the tree. Oh, right. Okay.

So how does a tree like that get water? Because it's reaching into the yard and groundwater.

There's moisture in the ground. I've been told by a hydrogeologist that we have a high water table in Albany, for one thing. But different parts of town are different, of course. But yeah, we don't water trees. We never have water trees over the summer except in the trees. But there's moisture in the ground that keeps them...

Okay.

I just have a question. The staff recommends the pruning, so the staff, City of Albany would take care of that, right? Yes.

And then it also says that you keep an eye on it. What does that look like?

Well, we'd review it next year, or if the property owner saw something change in the tree, we'd come out and reassess the tree.

And have you talked to the property owner about your proposal?

I did, yes. And were they? They wanted to bring it to us. Okay, very good.

Other questions? All right, we can move to public comment. Anybody wish to speak, please?

Thanks, you guys. I'm Patty. I live at 965 Talbot. Thanks, John. John's been trying to take care of this tree. They've come out twice in the last, like, eight years. And it's still really heavy on this one side. And when I stand there, the branches touch my head next to my car. It lifts the sidewalk. But the main thing about this tree, John, is that there is a whole lot of... roots that are nuggets of root stock coming up in the sidewalk. It's all trimmed away there. But right now if you go visit the tree, it's got big, big nuggets. I don't know if it's the same tree or a different root stock, but it's got three-inch thorns that are really stiff and they grow right at toddler level. And they're hard. I've gotten out of my car. I can't park next to my sidewalk. I have to be out a bit. And I drive a small SUV, SUV, and we've banged into that, put the scars on the tree. And then a person came to visit us last winter, had a van, and she was backing it up. And she broke, she munched the whole top of the van and that back window, if you can imagine like a van like that. And people who park at Cornell and The teachers and the parents who come and go, they whack into the tree every day, practically. And then, as lovely as it is, I think it's also come to the end of its time because it was, I think, planted anecdotally. The people that we bought the house from, they did a really big renovation. Our house goes like that, and it goes all the way to the back, and they used the wood from... RENEL ELEMENTARY TO DO THAT. THEY PLANTED THAT TREE OR THE CITY PLANTED THAT TREE AT THAT TIME IS WHAT THEY SAID. PROBABLY 60-SOMETHING YEARS OLD. I'M 70 AND THERE'S SUCH A SLIGHTLY OLDER THAN I of the tree. And what else? I've lived here for 35 years in this house and I have watched it move a bit. And I appreciate that John's come out to try and trim it. I think it's just going to be the same. And lifting the sidewalk with the roots, I don't think that's really going to change it. And I do know that the tree itself, that species of pear has a tendency to lose limbs. And mysteriously, we came out one morning and there was a branch about this big and about that big around that had fallen onto my daughter's car and there's a big old dent. Oh, heck, I really like to talk. I'm a high school teacher. What else? Oh, last bit. Who is responsible if somebody trips on it? Like am I responsible for that tree lifting the cycle and those thorns? Am I responsible if somebody dents their car? You know, are they gonna get after me or is it a city tree? That's my question. Okay.

Thank you very much. Thank you any other Comments or questions from the public No hands raised online, okay, I'd like to close in public comment respond to the questions we received Who who has liability for something like that?

I? That's a great question. And there's not a clear-cut answer for that, I don't think. When there's issues with trees, damages from trees, people might go after the property owner, they might go after the city, they might usually go after both, wherever they can collect. So as it stands right now, it's not clear in our ordinance. It's not clear if it's...

The president? Yeah, we had any case like that recently or in the last recent memory?

So we have had... property damage? There has been property damage, but there's really a couple issues. In our municipal code and the state highways code, the adjacent property owner is responsible for the sidewalk in front of their house and safe passage. And so that's the approach in Albany, and that's in our municipal code. I think our code says something to the effect of that the property owner will keep the tree in safe condition And so that's the discussion that we're having right now.

Okay. Discussion?

How healthy is the tree again?

it's it has some life left to it it's um it's an older tree definitely um it has some issues but i think again that pruning can can take care of some of these issues here there the sidewalk is another a separate issue for this so sidewalk repair If and when sidewalk repair is done, then we re-examine the tree again for suitability for root burning and replacing the sidewalk. There is, yeah, there was some work, yeah. Some of the lifted sidewalk was ground to smooth it out.

And what about these thorns that we're hearing about?

I didn't see. I know you mentioned that, but I wasn't sure what you were talking about. I didn't see thorns. Oh.

You can step up to the microphone again because we're asking for specific information.

I was trying to keep up on it. Somebody's coming by and trimming these things like this big at the root base. Oh, so suckers. That part, there's two nuggets of roots, like a thick root there. They send up these suckers. And then there's also several of them in the basin. So that basin's too small. We'd really like to make it bigger and plant something else.

Thank you. And the difference between an aristocrat pear and a Bradford? I know Bradford pears are kind of not well thought of. Bradford pears are kind of the worst cultivar of pear.

When they, at a certain point, this tree is almost like this, but at a certain point they kind of branch out right at that one point at five or six feet up the trunk, and it branches out, and at a certain point in time when they start falling apart, as soon as one limb goes, the next one, next one, it's like a banana peeling, basically. This has a little bit better branching structure. Not the best tree, not something we would replant if we took this out, but it's slightly better.

At some point there's the decision, well, let's just get started on a new one is the other way to look at that.

Yeah.

Yeah. Very good. Thank you. Thank you. I think we have enough for everybody. I appreciate that.

We're here.

So we're hearing that some neighbors are in support as well. I think we're going to have to kind of close public comment now, unless we ask you specifically, but I appreciate it very much.

And the neighbors should actually send direct to us.

Yeah, if they would send the emails to us, that would be helpful. You know, I would like to see... a larger planting space and then something new planted there. That is what I would like to see. Something more appropriate. But I also like the idea of holding on as long as we can and if you're confident something could be done. But I'm also sensitive to the hazard to vehicles and passersby and what have you. having replaced a tail light or two from my encounters with trees.

Other discussion? Opinions? I know what Julie wants to do.

I'm going to move that we approve the application for removal. And then I'm going to call for a second.

Was it an application for removal?

Yes.

Removal it was for removal, but it was recommended that it not be removed the question is do we approve the application?

And I'm moving that we do do we have a second?

I'll second it.

Okay Commissioner Chang Frank. No Commissioner Logan. Yes, Commissioner Trinkle. Oh and sure Abbott

It's a yes, and we don't normally have ties. I think a tie is a negative, is that right?

There's no winner, how's that?

We keep talking, okay. We would consider another motion. So we'd like to make another motion.

I mean, I think if there's concern about the health of the tree, and John's saying that it's healthy, but watch it for a year with pruning, I think that's... generally what our commission usually tries to do. So kind of going by precedent and it seems like it is a healthy tree. I totally understand the concerns of the homeowner too, but if it's like a year out and we do some mitigation and see how it goes, I think that's reasonable. So I would, my motion would be to follow John's recommendation.

And what I would add to that is we have in the past said that we would waive the fee should they come back in a year and ask for it to be removed after that analysis. I'm sure there's a way to record that somewhere.

I mean I said no because I feel like what I heard that the main issue is is like parking and there's like chunks of routes sticking out. I feel like I'd want to see like the chunks of route and how it's affecting the sidewalk and stuff. And then I feel like the driving is not that big of an issue, because you can just park slightly. You have enough distance. I feel like I just want to see how the chunks of route is affecting the sidewalk.

Yeah, I appreciate that. I appreciate that it's also setting a precedent as our commission. If we chop down trees because of nuisance, like nuisance that we, you know, then that can be a slippery slope and then they could welcome other reasons to chop down trees because it's like there's too many leaves to clean up, that kind of thing.

We could paint it orange too.

No, because we're already in the recommendation phase. Sorry about that. Commissioner Chang-Frank recommended that we deny the application. Would anybody like to second that?

I'll second it.

Okay. Commissioner Chang-Frank?

Yes.

Commissioner Logan? No. Commissioner Trinkle? Yes. And Chair Abbott?

I'm going to say yes. Okay. With the understanding that you will do what we can to help it and then revisit in a year without. additional cost to the or sooner if some issues or sooner if it becomes clear yeah and making the sidewalk safe whose responsibility is that well that's that's a different question that's not ours um that would be uh the sidewalk program i mean it's the property owner's responsibility but we do have a program that will take that bit by bit yeah and it didn't sound like the sidewalk is unsafe at this point i mean it doesn't

It's been ground down, so it's lifting, but it's been made safe, which is a temporary fix.

So just a note on the sidewalk program. So we have a two-fold program. We do annual sidewalk shaving, and we've divided the city up into five zones, so each zone gets... you know, one every five years we come and do shaving, and that's the small offset. So that's anything from zero up to maybe one, maybe two inches at the most. We also have the rehabilitation program, which is based on a citywide survey of the public right of way where we take lots of lots of measurements and we stack them by we do grading of them based on the severity of them and then we do that through the sidewalk program so so that could be on the list my guess is that this isn't one of the priority locations yeah yeah okay and usually i think you can you can grade sand it or grind it down till so it's at least two inches remaining or something or so the and um Most of our sidewalks are four inches thick, so anything less than two inches, there's a high likelihood that we can shave it. This is a location where it's flat, so it's easier. On slopes, we get kind of funkiness with the slope of the sidewalk.

With that being said, the motion passes for this tree to not be removed.

All right, thank you very much. Now I should mention this decision can be appealed. You have 30 days to take it to city council and they can reconsider.

Thank you.

As with all of our decisions here.

All right, that's it.

I have a subcommittee updates. We don't have any subcommittees at the moment. Announcements and future agenda items.

Any announcements from? I have an announcement. So on Monday we took a big step on our sidewalk program. The city council approved a parcel tax measure that will go on the November ballot that will generate funding for both the sidewalk and street tree program. And one of the components of that, so there'll be dedicated funding for street trees for a broader scope of management, but combined with this, assuming this passes, their council will then do a measure to more formalize the sort of maintenance responsibilities of street trees and really push that over to the city's responsibility. So I think that's a really big, a big thing for us that we can take a much more proactive and sort of structured look at how we maintain street trees.

It's huge. I was just surprised how little small the money amount was. I thought it was going to be a lot more for that program.

We're super excited about it.

Oh, it's very exciting.

What is it? What's the estimated annual revenue from it?

Between street lighting and street trees, I believe it's $7 million.

I might ask the folks out there to step out into the lobby. Sorry, John.

It would be $750,000 annually.

So how much would be apportioned to?

I think the street trees, it'll be both. There's still some money in our budget from going to street trees. So we'll roughly have on the order of, let's say, $500,000 on trees per year. $500,000? That's a lot. But only $250,000 for... No, but that would be street trees pieces augmented by a current budget.

They already have a budget, so they're adding to it. And then they were going to do something clever and use... This is another... We're just reporting, I guess.

We're announcing.

We're announcing. We're announcing it. That... for the lighting, they will use the money to finance an initial big investment and then pay it off. That way they can get something done, a large project done rather than piecemeal.

Yeah, the sorely needed street lighting. Sorely needed. Especially in Solano. Oh, my gosh.

Well, I saw one explode yesterday. Other announcements?

I mean, I don't have an announcement. Or agenda items, too. Agenda items, too. I just think that the comment about Solano trees, I don't even, and maybe we can just have a meeting as a commission to decide how to approach that, which may be a subcommittee, right? But I think, like, Commissioner Kent would be a fantastic person to be part of that conversation, given his experience. Yeah. I do think with what we have now and then funding coming in, I think it'd be a great time to launch that.

To revisit that.

Yeah, I completely agree. We also got a little bit more direction from council this week, so we have a little better idea of... You know, I think the decision we made several years ago was the right decision in the context of, you know, we... We thought we would be knee deep in design of the streetscape at this point, looking to be in construction like next year or the year after. So that made sense. The fact that we're not there, it might be something that we want to study. And I think maybe, I don't know, doing a subcommittee that then falls into a recommendation and then falls into establishment of a project that does some scoping up, you know, where we get some design help and develop, I don't want to call it like a, you know, another broad plan, but just some guidance that would help us make some decisions about planting trees in the short term. Yep.

Yeah, I like that. I like that a lot.

Yeah. Let me wrap my head around what that looks like. Okay.

I would say it is Commissioner Trinkle's last meeting with us.

Yeah, I'm resigning now.

See what you guys did?

The deciding vote on two important things.

Well, we very much appreciate your time here and your dedication and service, and best of luck. I think you'll love Boston.

Oh, where are you going? Boston University.

When you arrive late, you don't learn these things. All right, I don't have any announcements.

Nothing from the parks.

I would say I went to the Friends of the Seniors barbecue the other night. We had a really good time. So funny. All right. I'm going to adjourn this meeting. Thanks, everybody. No meeting in August. So see you all in September. Oh, is it? Oh, it's your birthday. It's my dad's birthday.