Planning Board - Regular Meeting

To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. All right, let's see. We start off u everyone have a chance to look at the February minutes corrections additions off

I so item A we're going to hear from Robert is that correct Yes.

Um, this is this is a a pretty simple text amendment to adjust the existing uh chapter 92.12 or 91.12 to establish a one-year pilot program for dogs on the beach. Uh the amend the amendment keeps the seasonal restriction structure, but it adds a limited uh morning window to uh the uh the dates for leash dogs um in the mornings. Um so the current the current ordinance um prohibits the dogs on public beaches from April 1st through September 30th and allows for leash uh dogs from October 1 through March 31st. Um, I prepared this um, revision with the notes that came um, these were just notes that came out of the meeting. As far as I can tell, there was the committee meeting where the park rangers involved, members of the public, they they spoke about what they wanted to change and uh, essentially received a bullet pointed memo uh, and uh, with some proposed changes to essentially add this pilot program. uh with us um with what I'm guessing is the support of uh the park ranger um because he was involved in those meetings. I'm sure some people from the planning board was on this committee as well. Um thank you.

Yeah. And you so you were there. You could probably speak to it better than I can. Um so basically this revises the season restriction dates from April 2nd to September 29th and allows dogs on the public beach between 6:00 a.m. and 9:00 a.m. during that period. Um, it revises the leashed uh dog season to September 29th to April 20 I mean to April 2nd which is just a one day change. I'm not really sure why that was changed.

That's what I got from the notes. So that's what I in your strike through underline. Um, so it does establish a yearround uh uh let's see, establishes yearround dog free beach areas from beach access 42, which I believe is just north of Shell Island and beach access 2. Um, which I'm I was thinking about this today. Um the justification for that is at beach access one you have the bird sanctuary which is all the south end and then beyond 42 what? North the north. So one is at the north end. Oh so I got it backwards. So 42 um basically it precludes anything in the bird sanctuary which is on the south end and anything north of Shell Island but then you get into the channel and whatnot over there. Um, so

Right. Exactly. Um, so it adds a civil penalty uh $500 per uh violation up from the existing $250 um and adopts uh division BCH H&I as a temporary pilot program. Those are just the the amendments. So, what I added here in your packet is the notes uh for the dogs and the beach January 20th, 2026 um which outlines the ordinance changes, the communication efforts, uh the amenity improvements and volunteer support and and challenges etc. So what I included was the original ordinance as written directly out of our book uh adopted 2012 and the last amendment was actually 2019 because that's when we readopted uh the wings. Uh I added the strike through underline so you can see what has actually changed. That's on page 11 of your packet. Um, it's not a lot, but it does add some provisions for a little bit more freedom of warnings.

Just keep going. The number is kind of strange. Okay. Yeah. Looks like your age you would have been from 10 to 12 to 13- for 11D. Has anybody ever had a snake? Yes. I don't know. Yes, I've seen it. Wrapped all around. 11de snake. Oh no. Many years ago chickens in here. I don't remember the snake.

Um so H, I and J are new sections completely. And then there are some pretty simple amendments to B and C. um in your strike through underline version and then I always include the new version of just what it looks like once it's finished. Um so if there's any mistakes in there, we can adjust it before it gets to the board of aldermen. Um that's all I have. So this is uh your discussion. Um so I think what we can do is I know Doug Wilson's here. So let him talk for you want to say something for a minute. Yes. Appreciate And then we'll then we'll have a good discussion.

Sure. Sounds good. I'm trying to limit it. I There was a famous old judge in western North Carolina who is known for repeating at the beginning of every court calendar. Revity is prized above all else. Give us the cliffs version.

Okay. Uh appreciate it. generally uh background I started this petition drive almost three years ago so the signs you've seen petitions etc uh with talking with other folks because a lot of people expressed interest in in opening this up we found out every other beach town in North Carolina South Carolina had some provision in fact pretty much up and down the whole east coast so we started this last December and I'm going to submit I'm Sorry, I actually had no notice that this period is going to take place tonight uh with with uh this agenda. Um I submitted to the um board and I'm going to put this in your record because I referred to it a little bit. This has all the beach town rules for North and South Carolina. Has interviews with uh town managers with Sullivan Island, etc. also has names and addresses of 166 registered citizens who signed the petition. Want to mention two things. One, Robert, on the uh amend amendment itself, I think you also need to amend um 91.02. Uh that's the uh definitions and that includes a nuisance and includes reference to dogs over the summer. I think that needs to be modified as well so it's in accordance with the text of um and uh secondly and I may have been confused. I would suggest I didn't understand that the putting off the north and south ends was

year round. I thought it was for the season April one. I may have misunderstood you did, but I suggest at least others I suggest you consider that. Um I mean from say people can't go out in November and December and January. there very few people anyway. But I really think uh I misunderstood that and I suggest uh that you consider changing that. And last thing I want to say is um just express there a lot of public support for this. You understand this. Um I did emphasize the other beach towns. I know Jim and I disagreed a little bit about the importance of those in our committee meetings, but I do know that uh some of the board has mentioned that last year when they started this committee mentioned the importance of other details and what what they were doing with it. With that all

what were you saying about um amending what were you saying the last thing you said about what I'm sorry the text amendment amends um the numbers amends 91.12 dogs on the beach to the what what the text me says mornings uh 6 a.m. to 9:00 a.m. You want that to be around?

No, ma'am. That's fine. What I'm saying is there is another provision in the ordinance uh 91.02 under definitions. It also includes that prohibition for dogs completely April one. So it's in it's in conflict with the text. Now you're saying you need to make sure that both

Yeah, it's a different it's a different it's a different chapter altogether. What he's saying is there's two separate um there's two separate ordinances that sort of conflict in language with each other. And that's fine. That's that's a relative easy easy change. And I'll just remind you that whenever it comes to two conflicting ordinances, you always go with the most restrictive one. Right. But that's my point. Yeah. Okay. I got you.

So, let's have a conversation among the board. We've heard from Mr. Wilson. Obviously, he was no clarification. One of the things I want to say is I'm in Sullivan's Island every week. Every week I'm leaving. I have had it all. There's a huge difference between Sullivan's Island is Palm and Rice Beach. South Carolina beaches are extremely wide. I mean, you can walk whatever even in the summer except when you get right in the middle of Palm down with the villages there. is a little crowded, but there's a ton of beach and so you you can't compare right to the beach that is so crowded that you can't even I don't walk out there right across the street because there's no room on that beach and and and then and I did a ride ride along in side by side not long ago and even at 6:30 at night in the summer that beach is still crowded. Um the questions I I am concerned about is who's going to enforce this is you know our beach is still over how long it is from end to end and I don't know Scott still okay so it's between two men be up and down the beach who and and I and Sullivan's island they are on that beach with their four by 4x4 side by sides water 24/7 up and down I If you even step through that beach, they they dog when it's not allowed. Each beach is different. Palm's dog hours are different from some but you walk the line cross the line right into up from Isa Pal. You don't even know you're in it. So they are they you can see them coming and they're like this up and down and it's a much larger beach. So there's a ton of room for dogs and they don't.

So I want to know how is this going to look in the summer noise when people outstay their time is it not how how is that going to look and who's going to police it and who's going to stop the people that dig a hole to cover their waist as opposed to picking it up because I see that happen and I know people that do it. I mean I yell at them all the time. I want to know how to enforce it. Who's going to clean up? People that don't pick up. I'm not. I mean, who's how is this going to look?

How many citations were there last year? Just you have any idea? I have no idea. That's uh that will go through the police department now that uh the park rangers are attached to the police department. And do the park rangers write those or can police write those or can ocean rescue write those? Uh the majority is going to be written by Chad and the park rangers. Probably not. Ocean rescue will not. What time do the park rangers start each day? They have different schedules. They in summer they may start at 6. Okay. So there is somebody out sometimes they'll stay a little bit later sometimes.

Okay. And the other thing that that um when I was riding along with one of the police officers not long ago, there was several dogs on the beach that that afternoon. This was in the summer and it was several dogs. I mean, between them her picking me up and us working our way down where there's no beach, the side by side can't even get over to the Mason inlet because there's no beach. You have to go down a thing and and get up up back up to get over. And she stopped probably a half a dozen times that people had dogs on the beach. And that was that was when it were supposed to happen. And some people had a bracelet on that show that they had to have the service dog earlier. And one little girl, young girl, she goes, "Oh, this is my emotional support dog." Well, then the officer said, "Well, you've got to have service dog. We don't allow emotional support dogs because there's a difference." and she and she made the young girl college age girl. So that so my point about that is you my concern and I know it's already written down when you've given it to take them out and all the years that I've been doing in Solomon's Island I see people pushing you know and are letting the dogs off the leash and I see as many dogs off the leash as I do until they get caught and they get caught they they don't give them a break they So are we going to do that as a as a town is as are we going to enforce it that way because if we don't it's going to be like everything else that doesn't get enforced and there's no because right now with speeding tickets and noise violations if you don't get in the pockets they're going to keep doing it and I just I don't know I just um I want to know how it's going to how it's going to look how it's going to play out and you and you and if you do it for a year then you a year if it doesn't work out then you got to start all over again start you know you know people not going to know they want to fight at age it's just it's

going to be us. I think that's just my opinion. Can I and maybe it's a question for you, but because you were on the the committee, but what are we trying to solve for? Like is what was the problem with the old ordinance that we're trying to solve for here? Is it is it that there are residents of Rightville Beach that want more access with their dogs or what is the problem?

Not just residents, it's people on the other side of the bridge as well. Yeah, that's my understanding though is um and I I quite honestly didn't understand. Okay, we've been living with this ordinance for what did you say Robert 2012 and then when it was revised in 2019, I don't think the dogs on the beach section was reviewed, it just went through with the whole rescue ordinance. But we've been living with it this long and yes, people who want to walk their dogs down the beach more uh have brought this forth and and so so so your followup question was there any consideration given to like I share some of William's concerns there's other concern you know we don't need anything else marine you know folks just coming just to do that was there any consideration giving to given to some sort of resident pass to what we so it's just you know if we're talking about 166 people who live here that really want access for a couple hours in the morning in the summer is it worth opening the can of worms to everyone I'm just throwing something out for the board's consideration I just started thinking if the problem is we want to help these residents get on the beach in the summer then maybe we may

again you got to have somebody that's monitor Yeah, that's the one of the key things. And I want to practice it because I want to stay on the road. I love dogs probably more than people. I love dogs, but it's not their fault. It's the owner's faults that aren't cleaning up. I mean, I walk out and I see people in front of my house all the time heading out and it was in the summer and you know when there's no dogs on the beach and here they go with their dogs and they got them in their bag, they've hidden them here. I've seen it a million times. And so, it's not the dog's fault. It's the owner's fault. And then I knew that every owner was going to come up there and clean up behind their dog and not let that dog a get loose and you know y'all remember the guy on the loop with the bad dog that was so aggressive and people will complain the dog was dangerous and he didn't do he couldn't hold the dog back. What happens when one of those dogs and ends up on the beach and bites a child or attacks child? Because people got on the beach in the summer when they know parking, they're out on that beach earlier, get to the new parking spot. So it and again, it's not the dog's fault. It's the owner's fault. And I like I said, I think it's we we're opening a big or a big can of worms. I I was going to suggest that one of the things we could have done was add a month instead of it ending dogs ending on the beach October 1st. Why couldn't we push it to November and start it and and let it in other words when it ends dogs are not going to have dogs on the beach after April 1. What if we moved it to May 1st before Memorial Day and then gave them an extra month to get in add two months to it and just do it in the crazy busy time of the summer when that beach is slam. You can't even walk there. That would have made more sense to me. what you add to the allowance.

Not year round, but it's it's based on the nesting sea turtles. Well, I thought about that because they don't nest. Not in in April, but they do. It doesn't matter what the sea turtles get. Yeah. If you open it up year round 9:00 in the morning, 6 until 9 year round. Turtles are messing too. I'm not following that.

So what what she's saying is she instead of doing a year round approach, put a month on each side. So instead of starting October 1st through sorry, ending October 1st, ending or start start dogs on the beach October 1st, end dogs on the beach April 30th. Yeah. as just in the mornings. No, he said he's he said take the current policy and give a month additional for dogs on leash dogs on the beach at any time. Just just pull the pull the That doesn't coincide with the nesting. Doesn't matter. That's what they do. They dig up the nest. But but listen, but what we're doing right now is we're not even considering sea turtles because you're doing year round dogs on the beach on the morning.

Only in the morning. Well, maybe in the morning just as well as you're digging. Yeah. Well, that's that's the what we have to send a recommendation to the alderman after listening to Matt, the um gentleman who spoke at planning board. I'm inclined to not do these revisions at all. I don't think we should do it. Um I've had more calls about this issue. Um, we have the ordinance, original ordinance was written in 2012. So, what 14 years ago? How many more people do we have on the beach daily? A lot.

Number one. Of course, there's more a lot more dogs, people. And and our town manager started out the meeting. The very first meeting we had, people's are much less responsible than they were 15, 20 years ago. They they don't care. They don't care. I've been out on the beach during the daytime. And I've literally seen dogs out there off leashes in the summertime and they walk up and pee on people's coolers. Yeah. They lick their leg. It's just disgusting.

And when somebody lets that dog run, if you're sitting on the beach and they come running up your chair and and you know, it's got to be a dog. I love to take my dog out there, but come springtime, I've got to retrain it. it can't go out there anymore and it wants to go out but I'm not going to let it out there but I'm I'm just inclined like I agree with what what you said Leanne is um they're not they're not going to be it's going to be a problem

it's going to be a big problem but if but I like I said I want to go back and say it one more time just I think it would be a nice tradeoff to add a month that's 60 more days that just means that you you know, you couldn't have your your dog on the beach and you probably I would even push it to Memorial Day, not wait Memorial Day, but I wouldn't I'd say beginning of May, but that just means May, June, July, and August. When does only four months out of the year, you can't have your dog that this coincides with the current ordinance, which is um April 1st. April 1 is a start date. Yeah.

Okay. and then September 30th. But, uh, also Matt said that the, uh, then the hatchlings take 60 days, so they could be out there, uh, hatching, um, as late as November 15th. Now, I did talk to Nancy Fe about it. Um and she said it's rare that we've had hashlings that late but um you know other than that I I don't have any you know I don't have any factual basis that said we should shorten it. Um the um the other issue that I think Leanne made a very good point of and I made it the committee is we cannot compare our beach to other beaches. We have different topography. We have a startments. Um Shannon and Neil and I rode the beach the other night for light pollution, which is another subject. But um it took us an hour and a half to drive it. So we've got Shannon out there who's going to

you got to navigate your way around where there's beach and where there's not. That

true. And um but all that being said, it took us an hour and a half and we we weren't kind of hooking hoofing it. we weren't really taking our time just, you know, uh but um yeah, we can't we're we're narrow and and we've got the escarments and the escarments do not affect the nesting turtles. They come up anyway and they nest in the escarment so they still come. Um and just another interesting fact, the beach beachour does not seem to affect their habits either. they still come after the beach announcement. But all that being said, I I mean, you know, we we've got to send a recommendation to the board and I guess we all have

another thing that she said that's true is that people come really early now to get a spot

and their family even with little children umbrellas and all the works. So they're coming much earlier than they used to. Not only that, people who live already along there go out early with little children because of the sun factor and there's lots of like we studied this 10 years ago or so. We did this same round and it you know it's just so many little people out on the beach early and and you know they do because their children they don't want their children in the heat of the sun and you know they do go out and I watch it because you know the house behind me gets rained and I watch them going out there early. So, you know, and again, I love I'm getting a dog, it's a matter of fact, but I I it's not dog's fault and and it's not about the dog. It's about the owners and the disrespect that this beach is we put up with every day. People come across that dog bridge and throw all their morals out when they don't care anything about the residents, don't care anything about the beach. And I just don't I I've seen it so many times on this island 50 years and I've seen it and it's getting worse. It's not getting better. It's getting worse.

There's no way to police it either. That's one thing I was going to ask about Nathan brought up a great point which is David to one. How many I'd love to know how many citations were written? Um because very few because Shannon can't cover four. That's and that's the realistic thing and you can't right and the 166 people that signed the petition how many of them are dog owners how many of them have registered their dogs how much is it to register a dog on the beach $10 or 20 more than 10 right now

I mean for for something like this just I too taking phone calls and talked with a lot of dog owners I have a dog she doesn't go on the beach cuz she's insane she's a runoff so she doesn't go on the beach Um, but I've talked with folks who have a variety of different dogs who would love to see something like this. They would also be willing to pay their residents and they would be willing to pay up to register their dog as a homeowner on the beach and abide by the rules. But I agree with your point after 9 because once you come to the beach, if you bring your dog, you don't want to get you're not leaving because you're just going to hide that dog. You're going to hide that dog. I've seen I've seen them put them in their beach bags

and I've been on the beach when they see somebody coming and they cut put the dog under a towel or a little blanket over the dog. Same the way people put their beer hide it back down in the in their cooler. And so can we how do we police it? We can. How you know the $500 fine I don't know how many tickets were paid. Me too. To Nathan's point, if we're, you know, what's I understand there's a lot of 166 people who want to see this. How many of them own their dogs? How many of them are registered? And then really, what are we trying to address here? I mean, the 6 to9 piece in the morning. Um, it took you an hour and a half to get up the beach in the evening, I believe. I mean,

this was dark, too. So, we're expecting Shannon to to to do all this new new rules. We're expecting him to look at people smoking, drinking, uh drunk behavior because we do we got a little backup with the police, right? You know, but they're, you know, there are back and forth. Then you got the lifeguards and they're they're doing their job. There's there's no way anybody's going to convince me that Shannon and Scott are going to be able to do this on their own. Right. I mean, I would love to know just from would folks be willing to pay a little bit more or a lot more to register their dog to be able to walk it on the beach.

Yeah, I think having a beach passes is for a residential beach pass. We're really interested and worried about the citizens of Rel Beach the residential beach pass. But then I also think that we have to decide here if we're going to recommend it. There's a zero tolerance policy. So if you don't have that, if you have a dog on the beach, it's not one of those things that that's, you know, you got to take your dog. You have to have zero tolerance. People are going to have to understand that you're going to be fine. Um, I don't think that's I'm just saying if we end up recommending that

Well, I like Nathan's idea if we can figure out how to make it happen because that's the issue is the residents who live, you know, who are here all the time pretty much. Those are the ones we're supporting.

That's who we should support. That's my concern. You take the wood off and it's it's again, it's not I don't have anything just like you don't dislike dogs. I don't have anything against people in town, but we don't need a slew of people riding in at 6:00 a.m. to come walk on the beach and heading out. I mean, if we're trying to solve to get residents accessing the dogs on the beach, you know, let's then let's solve that. Let's not let's not have a solution that I don't care what goes on. You know, the worst argument I think you could ever make is, well, they do it there, so why can't we exactly use that? It doesn't make any sense.

If we're really narrow, if we're really interested in doing this, we have to I just had a few comments. Um um you know, this is the recommendation from the committee here that we were to bring forward. And I'm hearing what you're saying. I mean to me if you open it up to residents only that's like giving free parking to other residents and that wouldn't that wouldn't fly in the media and I don't know if you can do it on the public beach this question how do that so for me then it would be I think it'd be very questionable um to do something like that I think it'd be hard I think it'd be real hard

to just do it for the resident Even if they paid do I even if they paid like 25 bucks or I don't know that's a thought but what we could do is

so far I've heard definitions enforcement cleanup citation and we talked about residential passes and what we can do if you keep discussing it and maybe other things we can we can pass these thoughts to the board of alderman. They they did the board of alderman didn't want this group to hear the dogs on the beach. They definitely wanted you to be a part of it here. But what we can do is uh uh I'm sure you gonna have more comments and more thoughts. So once we take this forward, we can we'll bring it up to the board and see what they say.

What does any does anybody on as a group um how to say this? How do y'all feel about it like that? How um how do y'all feel about adding a month to each end? I know you're front the turtle nest, but if we if we take out the dogs on the beach from May 1st till November 1st and you're trying the turtle, the way it's written out, they got access to the beach 9 every day for 12 months. They can dig up a nest at 8:00 in the morning or upset turtle nest at 8:00. But they can't. That's the whole That's the whole thing that we're we're missing here is the fact that we're worried about a dog going and digging up a turtle. I was just saying the shitty dog, but the dog is supposed to be on the leash.

Exactly. So that dog is going to be on the beach regardless. I hate to say that, but that dog's going to be on the beach regardless because you're not supposed to be off leash when you're on the beach. And so they're not if you're on a leash, they're not running up to the turtle nest that we can see their mark that turtle.

Like some island will let you bring your dogs year round onto the beach, but it has to be leash up till 9:00 in the morning. Then again again it's a very opposite on the other side. I can't remember the timing but they don't have the same rules. Some of them does not have the same rules as it's different. is you know and you can have them off at least for like an hour. I think it's on SA I can't they're both very confus you can have them I think it's 6 a.m. You have an hour and you have a window and it needs to be they're they're very confused and I can't I always have to get on the website and look to see back when I had it all. Yeah, David's right. We never allow

I'm talking about I don't think we're considering all dogs, right? No, my point is I've seen people when you're supposed to have them on a leash not have a leash. they pushing it over and that's when they get a ticket because they do some they they run a tight ship. So to Tony's point the things we want to capture for the alderman or enforcement. I'm hearing that. I think

and I understand the residential path doesn't work, but I think at the crux of that is that this solution might it's opening it's solving way more than the problem. Like what we're trying to do opens up way more access than we're hoping. What what are the other I mean I think enforcement is the biggest one. The biggest one.

Second of all, exactly what you say. We're not as we're addressing 127 or whatever 100 people signed that petition or whatever it was. Um we're we're not catering to those 166. What we're now doing is allowing every person that comes over that bridge or lives on the beach to have their dogs on the beach, right? So it's a lot more than 166, I think. So, is there a way we can suggest, like I said, a h happy medium where we can increase 30 days on either end and you're only asking people to take four months out of here, but it's so hot down here and it's so crowded. Keep it on. No, I'm not in favor of that. I think it's a reasonable compromise for 6 to9. I think it's very reasonable. And the thing about enforcement, I mean, you could run down the whole list. Lights on the sidewalk, alcohol on the beach, speed, loud cars. Add it to the list.

I mean, so you're in favor of I know I I like the ordinance the way it's written. The new the new one. I think the dog poops different from loud noises. I do. I do. I do. I think every concern we have down at the beach is is important. This is the bikes, the loud cars, the speeding. I think it's all important. and you're going to have that no matter what. Um, unless we're going to have a lot more police officers and ride a lot more, we're going to have it. The idea of discriminating and we're saying, "Okay, we're going to be elect." I mean, well, I have a thought on that until I interrupt you one second, is because towns would get a permit, let those who want to walk their dogs 695 permit,

the res or or Yeah. And maybe on that, but the idea of just a residence going, that's a public beach down there. Yes. Every so often and then every so often we say, "Hey, state of North Carolina make county, give us $30 million, $40 million, $50 million." I understand that shouldn't be in our conversation whatsoever. I understand that, but I I guess I'm just responding to the problem. Like we're not getting the request from everyone else and and the solution creates another problem. That's the only thing I would say.

Anything that's preferential. I understand. I understand. I mean, I was just talking to Tony. This piece of land we're sitting on was given to us by the federal government. Piece of land, you know, so everything we got is a gift. And so any this discrimination stuff, I said, "No way. It'd be bad for us."

That's because when they gave it to us, they got it flooded. Yeah. But whatever. Whatever. Um, and and the thing is, if you think about April and May, I mean, if it's a nice day, this place is going to be packed, right? And April, a nice day in April, May be packed. I mean, the traffic can be all the way back up. So, it could be just as busy between April, May as it is on July, July the 4th, it could be very busy because it's just a function. Soon as that weather gets a little better, it'll be packed. So, you know, by I kind of like the idea of no dogs on the beach after 9:00. I like that. I like that. That's when all the people are here. Most of the time, if you're walking down the early in the mornings, it's not that crowded early in the morning. Um, sure. Can the dog run away? He's going to run away. Is he going to dig something up? Yeah. CL somebody's going to cover that's going to happen. Um they do it the rest of year. Um I just think it's a reasonable compromise that these guys have come up with. Uh and if I add one more thing to it, I think it's easy to understand too because one thing is you know when you come down to the beach is like it's like 40 rules you got to follow. Okay. Make sure I don't break all these rules. So you got to kind of read them all. This I think is reasonable to understand. Okay. no dogs on the lease when after 9:00 and you can't go past this this beach access and this one. I think that would be that's reasonable. I think people could get behind that. Don't go to the south end pass where it 42 north end pass number two. I think that kind of makes sense and most of the time that's blocked off anyway and it blocked off most of the summer on the south end. I think most of the time it's got it's fenced off anyway kind of sort of but uh we did have the I can't remember her name. I call her the first lady. Uh she was in the meetings and so was Nancy, the other Nancy. Okay. Uh the turtle lady. But one of the things uh that I think we need to send to the alderman as a recommendation along with whatever we do

is and it was discussed in the meeting very thoroughly, we need better signage. Um, when you just say no dogs on the beach, it shouldn't say something like we're serious. The fine is and I think the fine's too low. The fine Yeah, I think it's too low. If we're serious about this, the fine needs to be higher. I mean, the federal government fine for for messing with a uh nesting sea turtle is $100,000. That's pretty serious. Well, 500 bucks is nothing to

Well, people we got, you know, you walk out on your public, you got a sign and it goes against rules or whatever and one and people will read that sign and still walk up there light up cigarettes still get their beer open which you know I think as long as you keep it lowkey and you're not out there choking or whatever that shelf is like I've seen on the beach for the most part but but there going to be people that 9:00's going to roll around they're I almost stay and I'm trying to get away with it and find and all you saw again. There's a where breaches in this is a very rough area of water. You're not supposed to be out there. They got a sign and it is as big. The sign is as big as this wall right here and it says no swimming, no waiting, no. And the fine is something like 2743. It's just some weird amount. And he go out in that water every time. Every time. And I'm, you know, I walk out there, my feet wet, but I don't go swimming out there because the current will take you, but they still, you can sign all you want, too. The same thing down here. Yeah. And and it's so dangerous.

And yeah, there are a lot of rules, no drink, no this for that. Did you propose a higher civil penalty when you were on the committee? I did. And I didn't win, obviously. So, you proposed $1,000 and nobody supported you? Uh, I'm not going to say no one did. I don't remember exactly what the count was, but we settled on 500. Um, and Mike Haynes keeps reminding us it's a it's a pilot program. We're going to try it for one whole season, one whole year. Um, and turn it back around again.

Well, that's going to be up to the alderman and we're going to have to put that in our recommendation to them that we all better monitor this accurately. So, we've got some statistics and because I would venture to say if we went out and asked people to sign a petition for not doing this, we'd probably get 166 signatures in opposition. So, um I think you know I guess we go ahead and pass this somehow and and um see what happens. So I think I think what we need to do is I think we've given a bunch of suggestions to Tony, but I think the first thing we need to do is make a recommend um decide based on what we have

how we feel about how we feel about that. Would it come down to us sending a favorable recommendation to a new or I think yeah I think what we can do is look at what we have and um like I think that's that's what we did what we have to write down some of our suggestions I've got right here definitions enforcement clean up citation. We talked about residential passes,

how many 30 days. We talked about fees, better signage, and increased fines. I mean, that's just things. And from and a registration piece, too, because I'm still just that's just something that came up when folks were asking me is when how do you register? Do we make it more expensive to register? I think $10. If you're going to walk your dog on the beach and you're that passionate about it, you want to do it, charge a little bit more.

I'd also would want to consider I'm all about pilot programs. Try if it doesn't if it doesn't work, toss it, but can we look at this after 30 days, after 60 days with like with data behind it, not just say, "Hey, we looked at it. This is what Shannon saw." But like, you know, we videoed driving down the beach three times every Monday, Wednesday, Friday from 6:00 to 9:00. We went out there with a camera and we saw what it looked like. And after 30 days, we're looking at it and we're having the discussion board of alderman looking at they say, "Whoa, this is really bad." But we may say, "Wow, this is great." We don't know unless it's something we actually look at. So, um I would just like to see if we do move forward with it and vote in favor of send it to the alderman that it's we're looking at it not just waiting till next year. Um so that

well that was discussed in the committee and Haynes brought up a good point. You're not going to know in a month a little snapshot of a month or two. It doesn't take you through the holidays. It doesn't take you through the nesting season. that and I agreed I think everybody on the committee agreed with Haynes on that one. A pilot program needs to be a whole season unfortunately. Uh but I think that's the only accurate way to do it. Um there

the biggest the biggest is are we in is the what what is the number one biggest concern that we have as a as a board? It sounds like you need enforcement like enforcement and I don't think we have the staff enforcement 6 a.m. I don't I think Shannon I don't know that he comes very often at 6:00 a.m. at 7 and it's just the two guys. So they're going to have to take turns somehow coming at 6:00 a.m. because you got to if you're going to have it at 6, it's got to be monitored at six. So the the enforcement is really difficult. Plus the fact that this beach is very like takes an hour and a half to get down the beach.

Yeah. And I think the messaging because people are gonna say dogs on the beach in the summertime. They're going to see that one part and they're just going to not even look at six. Exactly. So the messaging is is absolutely critical. And that big sign at the entrance, no dogs on the beach. Okay. But like, can we get something that's a little bit more cleancut, a little bit nicer, not just a big DOT sign that says no dogs on the beach? It's just like the signs we put out that says noise and speed zone and you know, we had it for a while strictly enforced. No, it's not. No, it's not.

Uh, to answer Adam's question, I I found my notes. Um, Hayne said in 2024 there were 43 dogs registered. In 2025 it went up to 50. Now I'm going to admit I've lived here since 2009. I didn't know we were supposed to buy a tag every year. Uh, so I'm going to run down and buy one, but I don't know what good that does. So you're not charging.

Let's um let's take a vote on are we interested in allowing dogs on moving this forward? Yeah. Or what what did you say? I think we would be voting and you correct me like voting on whether we want to move forward with this pilot program as written, right? Yes. And I will give them um the comments no matter one way or the other. We'll just say here are the comments from the board it don't approve it. And and I think that that that you know they'll understand they're all I mean fortunately two of them are here but they'll get more color than just the yes or no. So,

and Tony, if you can capitalize enforcement. So, I guess what we'll do would in favor of moving this pilot program forward. Oh, you want to vote? That's why you're going to do a motion. You want to vote? I just We don't even need a motion because what they're asking is for I'm willing to compromise. We're willing to move it forward. Wait a minute. What? What? So you you're looking at this as the compromise, the new thing that

in general, I think. What are we interested in general in moving the conversation of limited access of dogs in the beach board? Not necessarily what what's on piece of paper right here. And if we have a favorable recommendation, then Tony also can fill in everything that we all concerns. Yeah.

Well, like I was said, there alone here, so they've heard it. Now, I will I do want to say one thing, Mr. chair before we vote. The uh folks who brought this forward wanted to do the same thing in the evening. Let them out on the beach during the evening and they proposed no, let's not do that because in the evening people are a little, you know, have a little bit of wine. they're less responsible and the folks who want to walk their dogs out on the beach are getting up with a cup of coffee and walking out there from their home or they're plus it's dark at night too so it's harder to see in the summertime they want to be able to

in the evening and they were the one that pulled that proposal from the from this recommendation so I had to hand it to them they compromised on that one I would think the change has second. But the enforcement thing really bothers me to say yes, I think you ought to try this because I don't think we are capable of enforcement. That's what bothers me the most. And and I think I still think just just because we're not allowing we're allowing residents to walk their dogs on the beach and non-residents not. I don't think it's discrimination. They're still allowed.

Well, after we talk that one through, I agree that's not not fair. But if there was a way to I don't know, get a like a pass for that beach for everybody. But anyway, I mean automatically if you are walking your dog, you absolutely should be registered. Yeah. Regardless if you if you're a visitor or not, you still have to have Is there a fine associated with not registering all that? So there could be a fine $500 fine for it's not being and then there could be a separate fine for oh by the way you're on the beach you're not supposed to be after 9 but also you're not registered so here's another $500 fine.

But if you live somewhere else say you're coming down for a week you can register your dog. Say you're from Raleigh and you bring a dog, you can I think a lot of people didn't. No, you know, you you just have to register your animal somewhere. Okay. Yeah. Not if you bring a dog from Wilmington, you don't have to register right from Beach. It just has to be. Yeah. And usually when you get your vaccine, they does that for you. Okay. Yeah. Now, rightful beach is different because you have to have a rightful beach. I know this cuz I got cancer. You register a cat here, not with the county. Okay. I'm supposed to register all those feral cats at my house. 22 kittens.

I have like this. So, let's So, I Who would be in favor of moving some sort of pilot program forward that allow limited access for dogs? I should be in favor of it, but also just there's a lot of Yes. And with two of the boardman here just I think we've had really good discussion, but I do have concerns, but I also, you know, it's a year, right? So, understanding that there's a lot of things that can happen between now and then, but I still have some concerns. But in regards to the pilot program as it's written, I would

It's hard to vote yes or no. That's not one last comment. I would assume that the board of alderman if they if we get into the halfway of this pilot program and we've got problems they'll cancel it. I would say they have the authority to cancel. Yeah, that's written in there. So I think we can forward a favorable recommendation. What's the vote? I think it's six to one. It's a question mark. Well, we're not we need but not as needs to be a motion and a vote and I think the motion has to be as written. We'll then enforce all someone you're making a motion as written. As written.

All in favor? All right. The two against I think in the comments I'll get the comments. I think the board is very open to to I think it would have been I think it's better instead of taking the vote on the actual what we just voted on. I think it's much more productive for the audience to understand that we are we understand there's a lot of things we have concerns with but when we are favorable in terms of looking at something that we can develop down

you shouldn't have asked for we had a six to1 favorable I have to remind Agenda item Bach agenda item. Yeah, we're I'm gonna turn the rings over. Okay. Okay. All right. Go ahead.

Plan board. This is give you some background. Typically, this plan, the the hazard, the original hazard mitigation plan has never gone through the plan board. It's been advertised on our website for the past uh probably for the past year. The draft uh ordinances uh is here if if you want to look at it. It's a a plan, a reasonable plan that we went in with Brun County, Kendra County, you had over in Hslo County. Um, but it's it's a plan that helps out during disasters. That's it right there. Yeah, that's it there. It's online.

So, there's only two sections that you have to look at, but this is going moving forward to the board of alderman uh at the next week's meeting. They'll hopefully pass it with the resolution. um every five years the town did not have to pay for this. Uh a private company come up with it. Staff does give comments on it and during this past year is is Bailey's put it on the town's website and asked for comments and we didn't receive any but yeah the town manager just wanted to let y'all be aware of it and uh like I say it's going to the board of alderman next week. If you have any comments, I'll be glad to give it to them. So, what do they do?

Oh, go ahead. No, go ahead. Are they just going to accept it? Is that what they do typically? Just they say we accept bill consent agenda. There may be a few questions here and there, but basically staff put some comments on it. Like one of the things we added this year was for a bulkhead installation was to put that in there in case we get damaged during a storm. Maybe we can get some reimbursements from the federal government on those things. Now is that when you says a plan, it's stuff is activity go forward, right? Go forward activity in there.

There's actions or things that you want to do actions and most of it's backed up by county. If you look at it, we piggy back with county on this. And how far is the plan go out? Four, five year. Every five years this is due. So So that the action steps in are to occur over the next five years. Yes. And sometimes they may delay. It just depends on funding. So, just wanted to bring it to your attention. There was no advertisement requirements on this. Uh, so this is the first time. So, if you got comments, I'll be glad to share it with them.

I I did I didn't read the whole thing, but I did. Tony's got it very well flagged for section 7 to nine. It's focused on that. And it's more it looks more ominous than it is because there's like a page for every municipality on every subject. So, that's why it got so thick. But the only thing that I noticed, Tony, that it's always bothered me is um and a lot of municipalities do not have this, but we do not have a post disaster redevelopment ordinance. And I've always wondered what happens when we get the big blow it destroys downtown, you know, and I get that question from the highrises all the time. Yeah. Sue Sue will ask that question. Sue Bull all the time.

And I think this is what you got to say. Let's say Cat Path towers. Mhm. What happens tomorrow if that goes down? Well, there's going to be a lot of things that happen. Those individuals are going to get together, attorney up, change text amendments, ordinances, lawsuits to build it back, and maybe a little bit higher. So, I think it's it's difficult to write a post disaster ordinance to cover everything. I think it's it it happens just like if we have a fire in one of these places. Yeah. I think unfortunately I don't know if other communities do. I'll be glad to look at that. Most of them don't.

Yeah, most looked at the list. Most of them don't. But I guess I was thinking and you make a good point about the highrises. I hadn't thought about those, but I'm thinking about downtown where you've got individual little ownerships, right? And if we lose that and we lose it for a long time, what happens to the town economy? Yeah. And should we try to get a disaster plan in place maybe just for that section? We we we could and we get questions about that. One of the things that may have to happen, you know, those individuals may have to come and ask for exemptions, variances on their businesses to put them.

Yeah. They have that happen. Yeah. It's just like a code upgrade. You burn the ground. You don't get to build it back the way it's before with the old wiring. You gota you got to go to the new code pretty much pretty much anything you know fire dock gets knocked down everything's you couldn't build your house back the way you had and you wouldn't but you know had to tear down but we get those questions from the yacht club all the time Caroline parking but I was just thinking if we had a disaster yeah what do they call it a post disaster redevelopment ordinance in place just for the downtown area. It would expedite their ability to reel.

It's not that we have to do tomorrow, but it seems to me that, you know, I'll look into it. Might want to consider doing that. Like I'd like to know what happened to the people in California that's in that area. They're just sitting there. They're not getting any permits. I was thinking the exact same thing you were. That's a good suggestion. Would it just burn? And what about Hawaii? Where would we think about with what drink. But you know, the thing is it's it's not just what the town does because you got the state building codes. I mean, you can't override those, right? Got to follow the state building accessibility. Yeah. So, it's like layer on top of layer. Yeah. You know, but look how long it'll take.

I don't disagree with what you're saying. I think it's a good idea, but it's just like you can't the town just can't wave their hand and say, "Well, we're not going to adhere to the state. We ought to get something." So we don't need to truth that you the state will over well you have to of course the state don't know yet yeah but there are things that when I say the channel the board of automan can give variances to blood things like that they don't like to but they can so we don't need to do anything on this I'm just tell them I introduce it to you and move to them we'll see what and Robert's got the last one we're going to move on to agenda Item C. That's right. She's in

charge. Pardon me, ma'am. Okay.

Sorry. This is just uh this isn't anything that needs to be voted on. This is just that uh every year we put together the planning board u um the planning board report which is just a compilation of all the planning board packets uh from the previous year. I include an executive summary, attendance, all the um all the agenda items and the votes uh on those agenda items and then include uh the packet sort of as a as a uh table of contents for you to review. Um it's nothing that you haven't seen. It's just there's a brief summary in the very beginning followed by all of your packets and then we file it away in case we need to refer to something quickly. Yeah,

that's that's all it is. This is a we present it to the board of alderman. Uh Tony wanted to put it on the agenda tonight just as just as a heads up just to say that yes indeed we did complete it. What's the year? What's the year date? Is it December 31st for the town? Uh what what's the year? It goes until Janu uh it goes until January. The end of because that's when the calendar year ends. Yeah, that's what what's the town's calendar year. Um, well, it it would run with the elections when the board changes. Oh, right. Right. So, they take over in January and then Yes. You read it. I read the page of J.

I uh Robert, there is one uh found one mistake in there, Robert. Well, I don't know that really matters, but it says in there that I replaced uh Cheryl. Okay. And I didn't. Uh either Adam or uh Andrew. Andrew did. Andrew did and then I replaced Andrew. He had to leave. Yeah. So that's the only thing I saw and I don't know. So Cheryl came off of because of terms out. Andrew came off because he moved off the beach. Yeah. He was on for a couple months. You got him in the in the middle.

We rather have you rather have him. I'll adjust the report. I'll just switch up that one and change that one. I'll change that one page and call it. Thank you. Well, I read the summary. So, if there's nothing else with it, is there a motion to adjourn? I move. A second. You'll need a man crush, not a mad actor.