Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

recording progress. Okay. Okay. It's uh 5:05 and a call this meeting of budget regular media and planning and zoning commission to order. Um can we take a roll call of established form? Um, member Pat Rolllings, member Karen Duncan, member Carolyn Espen, Vice Chair Carson Budso, and Chair J. And you have a quote. Okay, great. Any public comments?

We can move on to the consent agenda. Approve the minutes from finance and zoning commission meeting from June 11th, 2025. Um, I don't think there's a couple of copies that be move. Yeah, we have to I think in the future you should also publish the documents because publish which documents like the um the minutes. I can't post them until they're approved and signed. Oh, really? Mhm. Oh, but we can just pass them out maybe.

Yeah. I make a motion only. But do you make a motion? You can make I make a motion approved minutes. Can't be more specific. I said I we approve the the minutes of the meeting from June 11th, 2025. All in favor? I

I Okay. Okay. At uh 50:07 I open up the workshop on the variance request for five bill via Meadows in Wood Creek, Texas. Okay. Um you've got a packet there. Let me show you. Let's talk about first what it what it is. If you look at the pictures, these three pictures should be toward the back of your pack. One more that. There you go. Okay. It's um it's a little neighborhood. It's uh set off by itself. If you look at the second picture, you'll see the orange circle. That's the number five. That's the lot we're talking about. But if you look at that little neighborhood, you see the entrance that comes in. I think it's meant to be one way, although there are no signs, but it's what we used to call in Scotland, uh, single track road. It goes around and you see the apartment complex to the right and then the back of homes from book meadow on the left. So, it's just sandwiched in. And it's a little air. It was apparently it was started around 1992 and it was meant to be garden homes and then it later changed. It was called garden homes or something

and then it was later changed the villas of Brook. Yeah.

Okay. Now they're unique homes. They're very small. They were all originally done zero lot lines. Uh if you look at the bottom picture, that's number three and number four. And then to the right would be number five. It's the lot. But you can see they're they're um very small homes. If you look on the next picture set of pictures, that's the lot five that we're talking about. It's actually five and six. And then at the bottom picture, you'll see how they're configured. Um, they all have two car garage or what they call twocar garages and um there's usually a side entrance or or something. Very very small homes. Some of them are two-bedroom. Um, I think there may be a couple that are three bedroomedroom. Some of the ones on the end uh look fairly large, but yeah, I'll show you these are going down to 12. They're on the

You know where the licorice holders cross. Now, this is what this diagram this is what he's it's just a preliminary. It's not meant to be a building plans of of what he's suggesting. And I also have for your edification um an existing property. This is number three and it shows how it's configured on the lot. They were zero lot lines means they were built right up to the lot line. Now the they were built to the back close to the back but there's a common area. If you look at this chart you'll see how it's configured. This is uh number five. That's the one we're talking about. And you can see all this common area. It's where they have the air conditioning units. And it's um I don't know the how many feet it is, but it's pretty good. It's u 10 20 ft distance.

Um currently there's I think about a dozen. Um there are six empty lots. Um there were a total of 18 there were originally scheduled 18 units. Um they built toward the front. So these are the ones that are built. So the empty lots are toward the toward the back. Okay. The current uh builder has all six lots. So, we can assume that what he's asking for with lot five is what he would ex expect also.

What are the rest of his lots? Um, he's got five he's got five and six, seven, eight, eight and nine. And I'm not sure of the other. Okay. But he's got the what is it? Eight and nine. Nine I think is a corner line. Nine is a corner.

Yeah. He's got another problem there because he'd also have to get a maybe get a variance on the side street. Although the side street variance is uh 10 feet the setbacks 10 ft. So he'd have 20 25 ft in the front and 10 ft in the back. What he's basically saying, which is to some extent correct, if we were to enforce the minimum of setbacks, he would have very little room to build a house. It's 25 ft uh on the front and seven and a half on each side. What he's proposing is to do the seven and a half on the sides and Um but he wants to reduce the front to 10 ft and um he wants to build a onecar garage. Now the pictures that uh you look at here you'll see they do have very short driveways. They're only only 10 ft. You see, just one one car basically you can fit. This one is a little bit misleading because I guess they somehow they they they move the street to the to the driveway.

Yeah, they they did. Yeah. But um I've got some other pictures there you can clearly see where they just have two cars next to each other and then there's the street

and that's it. Yeah, that um what we can do is go over this is another case. If you look, there's a letter in here from planning and zoning um commission of North Creek city and it's dated 1992 and they basically um allowed them to continue with the original specification and I think as late as I'm I'm trying to remember uh he built one later and he was allowed to use the old specifications, but he's gone beyond um the old specifications. Uh and let's let's go over what he's requesting so we understand. If you take this sheet here that has the yellow highlights in it. Okay. Okay. The homeowner is requesting the follow following variances. Uh he's requesting to abide by the setbacks currently shown on the Hayes County recorded plat. That was the original plaque for when they created all these homes which is 10 10 feet front building line and zero lot line at the rear. The property owner will maintain the SF2. These are SF2 uh homes. Uh minimum interior side set of 7 and 1/2 ft. Um, oh, it's a 33 foot wide common area

in the back. So, it's even with zero lot line adherence to the rear of the lot, no homes risk getting too close to an adjacent structure. Um, this is true. The other houses have 10 foot front, zero lot line at the rear, and they actually have zero sides. he's willing to maintain the 7 and 12 to six. Um, so that the only request is the U front and rear setbacks. But again, I want to emphasize that would be uh in concordance with the rest of the the existing homes. The homes currently built all have a second property owner is requesting a variance on the following zoning and building ordinance requirement. Hard surface driveway with minimum of three 20x10 parking spaces. Um we're going to tackle driveways next. We're going to get that start at the next meeting. But the idea of emphasizing how many parking spaces, it's kind of insignificant given the fact that the trucks now they're they're long. If you have a a 25 ft driveway, you can't fit two cars, one car behind the other. Um, so it's confusing, but the point is is that the garage is supposed to be 20 ft wide. So given the fact that if if you allow the first one, which is the 10 ft setback, you're going to have 20 ft by 10 ft. So

you will have two parking spaces. So, so yes, in effect he's asking to not comply with three 20x10 parking spaces. Um he says the 30% maximum impervious cover in addition to the small lot sizes makes achieving this a challenge. This is true. I haven't calculated the other homes, but I don't think any of them are near 30%. Mhm.

I think they all exceed um uh 30%. Um, this this lot, the way he's drawn it, just barely makes 30% if you allow him to a one onecar garage and give him full impervious credit. Now, what he's he's doing is he's suggesting we switch in Cong. In fact, you have a picture of this.

Okay. Um I'm very skeptical of this and I would like to meet with um I'd like us to meet with uh engineering to ask them. Um these driveways, if you look at them, the the little 10-ft driveways, it creates an incline because it's so close to the garage. and the street creates an income. So, it would seem like you couldn't give them 100% credit peruse on this cuz it would seem like the water would run off with, you know, if it's coming down flat, the water would stand and then maybe seep through. But if it's coming down at an angle, it seems like at least half of it would just simply splash off.

That is like the driveway right on the corner of Brook Hollow and Jack Miller Drive. That new red brick house. Well, they've got something like this. Yeah, they they got they got pretty significant concrete cut and gravel. Yeah, that was that was approved, but it's pretty flat. See, the difference is I mean like there at at Jack Miller and Broello that that space is pretty I mean it's not like you feel but I recognize that driveway.

Yeah. No, if they get the if they get the house up high enough to get out of the water on the foundation then it and the the distance to the road is only 10 feet. That's pretty significant slope and it just it's just all going to run off. Yeah. Which it would do. I mean it's going to run off concrete. Yeah, petty birds will. My young man said that when I was talking to him about the paper driveway, he said, "Yeah, the water will absorb and seep down and do it because I like that paper driveway at the leaning bear or pardon." Mhm. And he said, "Yeah, that one was going to see."

Yeah. Right. Yeah. The question is really that um you know he's asking he's asking to go back to the old wolves. See they have they have some driveways Yeah. that are fairly long and and flat. Yeah. Okay. But the I wish I had pictures of the Here we go. This is a picture. This is a This is It's not in your packet. This is something I was I was working on driveways. If you look at the bottom picture Uhhuh. that's a 10-ft driveway. And see how sloped it is? Yeah.

So, um I if you gave him 100% credit, allowed for a one car garage, he would be right at 30%. So, if we were, for example, to disallow, make him have a twocar garage and and make him pave or use concrete, he's going to be over 30%. But then, like I said, most of the homes there, I believe, are because if you look at um how they're situated on the uh on the lots, there isn't much more. Let's look at the aerial there's they're they're like at 50% just looking at what

I I would say there's no way any 30%. No. So you know what the other thing is I mean he's using this you know lot five as sort of his test case. You know, if he can get a variance here, then he comes back with same requests for six, eight, nine, whatever, whatever else he's got. But he wants to build all those all that blocked out. But this is his test case. Yeah.

The um he says uh we are requesting the allowance of one 2x10 parking space. I assume by that he means two cars side by side, but that would only work with a 20ft garage. So, I think he either made a mistake there or I'm not sure what he's doing because his plan at least shows a 10 foot wide by 20 foot long drive, right?

So, that's two cars nose to bad. And his next request number three requiring a minimum twocar enclosed garage. He wants to uh vary that to one enclosed garage space. The 30% maximum perus carbon addition small lots make achieving a two car garage and closet without going to a twostory home with all bedrooms located on the second floor. Um I that I disagree with that statement. I would also like to go over that with engineering. But if you look at his his uh his house or his plans for the house, okay, um he may have to put one if he wants three bedrooms. Yes, he would have to go to a second story, but he would probably only have to put one bedroom upstairs. But I don't know. Um that's where I'd like to sit down with engineer and go over that with him and see. But um anyways, he's he's claiming uh he he is correct in his assertion that if we don't grant him any variances, it's going to be difficult for him to build up. He's just going to have to build a very narrow ball box.

There's a couple of things, you know, but we did we're not we're not high on one car garage, but we did allow one over here on um pard one car garage um because of the restrict the size restrictions to the lot. Um so that did go through. So there's precedent for saying okay to a onecar garage. Um my uh you know my general feeling you know throughout the city is you know you build you know to the character of the area like when we did the Brook Meadow overlay it was because the Brook Meadow area is larger lots larger homes and so that makes sense. That is the character of that area. So that's what we want to want to do. So if PNZ decided that well the character of the area smaller homes more compact you know zero whatever you know you know that's I mean it's a fairly reasonable request but to say that he's grandfathered into it we just don't think is true. Well, um I agree with the fact that there are different neighborhoods in this city. U golf course homes are different than the Brook Meadow homes, etc. And we should try to maintain the integrity of a neighborhood. This particular neighborhood is out. Nobody would likes little garden homes or whatever, but that's what that was built as

and and over half of them have already been built that way. And I'm kind of prone to allowing for variances that maintain the integrity of the neighborhood. But he's going beyond that by asking for a onecar garage, which none of the others have, and um permeable driveway, which I don't think will work with the 10-ft um maintenance cuz basically you'd be going uphill and parking. I think the thing would look like hell after five years. So I would assume those papers have to be maintained pretty I guess the ground a lot.

No no no that it just it seems like they'd be uh again not a flat circle. It's not a flat surface. It's a it's an incline and what if they put down you know what is that what is that material like that and and maybe leaning bear I know that we've got it up at Augusta Park where those parking spaces where there's a little you know it's a black plastic yeah I mean it's it's but it's it's formed so that so that the gravel sits down into the

it it just it just creates sort of a hard surface surface that's completely permeable um and that's it. But if he did something like that and then put papavers on top of that, it might hold the shape of the of the pavers. But to what Jim is saying, if it's just like he says, pavers on top of gravel, you know, that gravel is going to settle and so those pavers are perfectly flat until time goes by and then they're

Well, it's going to have to be gravel on an incline. Yeah, too much because we don't have any information there. It's just if you don't know it is if it's like 5% I don't think that's much to worry about. And this detail he's showing to it looks like the typical permeable. Well, did you see that picture of Yeah, I mean I saw some of them some most of these look pretty flat.

But yeah, that's a 10 foot. But I mean that doesn't mean I suppose this is going to be fine like that, you know. Well, um, some of the driveways are are much longer, but that's that's a 10 foot at the bottom. Yeah, that's that's a very good tilt. Well, that is a hole in there. Oh, that's the duplexes across the way. Oh, this is these are pictures for the other one. No, the driveway. Okay. gun that will attack him next month. Well, I you may be right. It may be uh the papers may be a great

I mean concept. He's trying to do the impervious. He's saying okay I'm going to do the the well he's trying to get a onecar garage right is what and he's using the impervious cover but like you said none of those homes are anywhere near 30%.

Right. I don't see. So the question seems very modest size home that he's trying to move to he can't put the garage underneath and then bedroom living area up. You can't go up two story basically. That's a shotgun house. I drove on sex part those houses cuz I went in one and they when my friend was looking you drive up in the garage then you go in and downstairs was the kitchen, living room and I think one bedroom and then upstairs was two bedrooms. Not a big house. He could do a shotgun house and it would fit in if he was a designer and it wouldn't cost a lot. But that changes the look cuz everybody else is what one story.

Yeah. See, that's another thing. I would really like to get some input from other property owners in the in the neighborhood. Yeah. And so I think um I would like to to do more research with the engineering department on those issues and I'd like to sit down possibly with the city administrator and the developer to see about alternatives. Um yeah, that's not part that's part circle. What what's the one just right over here? dead ends and it was a circle. Is that where that's

right over here when you're coming down Wood Creek to 12 and it's right there on the right. That's part view. That is part view circle of parview circle. Okay. So, yeah. I mean, they're in a small space back there, but I think it's very well done. I'm trying to remember the houses there, but that's that's where I was saying that they allowed that one carter on. Yeah. Yeah. And it looks nice that area. But it was a it was a weird kind of pshaped blah. Yeah. So they just didn't know they didn't have a lot to work.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and I like pavers. So I I don't have a problem. I would just maybe ask that he he could do the more pavers and have another parking space that's like better local space that would kind of that he had three spots and I don't know cost or anything. The pavers are more expensive. Yeah, cuz I was asking I got you pay that much. Okay. The paper's not much but the labor because I have concrete. So far, have you looked into permeable papers and permeable papers fairly expensive?

Yeah. I knew that. I I didn't know whether I didn't know what that's what he's talking about here. The papers themselves are permeable. They're like five. This is the typical I guess. Yeah. What did leaning pair? The only What have they got over there in that their parking lot? They probably not pervers. I don't know. I never looked at it. The only difference is the permeable just has a little indention that's about a quarter inch and so they don't but against each other. Uh-huh. They all stay like this. Okay. And then they water runs into the into between the joints. Yeah. It seeps. Yeah. Down. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's permeable. So, it's permeable. Sound like y'all need a field trip.

We do. Yeah. You know, I'm a visual person. I'm visual. I've had a friend in San in San Marcus that um I went this is her specialty is is permable surfaces and she's she's got a consulting business now that that does that. Um but she's done a lot of the she's done a lot of the work around the campus in San Marcos and some of the other commercial facilities that um and that's what I found is very expensive. Yeah. and is and maintenance is important. No, but

I I think trying to get to the 30% is a fool's errand on on these properties. I I just don't think it's going to it's going to happen. The question you have to think about is are you willing to change and allow onecar garages in in that neighborhood uh to keep it close and we can still if the pavers are fine that's fine. He'll be at 30%. If we say concrete, we'll be at maybe 32 or or something because it's only a little uh 10 by 10 pad. If we go one car garage,

I I don't think that's unreasonable in that neighborhood since a smaller home they won't as many parking spaces as the rest of the neighbor. Well, if we go if he goes 10 ft setback in a single car garage, he basically just has one spot in the driveway. Yeah. For a car. And there are no you can't put it on the street. Well, that's why street even. Well, I guess this design has a 20ft cross. It's a 10 foot setback, but it's got a 20 foot drop. What?

Sorry. So, you know, he's got the 10 foot building line. Oh, he's got another 10 foot going into the garage. So, you got a 20 foot garage. You could add another Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you were talking about inside the garage. No, no, I'm talking about just on the driveway. Yeah. Just the driveway is 10 by 20. Yeah. You could add another space in the front there. They could have they had three spaces like a parallel parking space almost. Oh, you talking about right in front of the building line? Yeah. Well, he'd be parking his car 5T away from the house.

No, like a the street is so small. It's not even I would consider a standard street that stitch right there. Oh yeah. Okay. I see. They have three spaces. Well, I think they I think the three spaces is eventually going to be done away with. That's the next thing we have to do.

Yeah, that's the council has asked that we and it was unanimous that we consider dropping down to two spaces. future consideration. Yeah. So, so I I mean, let me ask you, are you guys inclined to one car garage? I don't have a problem.

Yeah. To me, I think he's he's going to make an effort and the the rules for this neighborhood are really wor. Yeah, I don't have any say in this, but you know, I I would tend to lean more towards the onecar garage than going up an impervious cover as far as getting it to the council.

Yeah. I I think the the key issue is if you if you don't allow one car garage, it's going to go to a second school. And see, that's where I'd like feedback from the neighborhood. Yeah. Then how do you feel as a sudden a two-story home next to you? Because they're they're right right on each other. But it's not like they've got a backyard to hang out in or anything. There are no backyards. No, I didn't think looking at that that must not have any backyard. No, they just got that third common area. I wanted a twotory house in a balcony looking over something. I don't care what it looks like over by set outside.

Yeah. Or a porch. What kind of porch? But so should we uh take those and tell that we need No, I'm going to make I've got a motion.

Um let's go ahead and get out of the workshop. So 541 out of workshop. define my motion. Um, so I make a motion that a subcommittee be formed, which I volunteer to meet with the city engineers to discuss the viability of the proposed permeable driveway and to assure with city staff that the current property owners of existing homes in Brook Meadow are aware of proposed changes to building ordinances for construction in their neighborhood and are given the opportunity to go upon.

I second. Um I I the latter part of that motion is the one I'm really emphasizing. Yeah. Um, we I hopefully someone will will come in and and and talk to us about it. But, uh, I really would like them to have us input as to what we're saying here because, you know, whether we're saying one car, I don't think onecar garage was going to be a

Yeah. And I don't I I can't see them objecting to uh the new houses having the same um or rules as their homes. So I I I don't think it's going to be they they may have an issue with the uh driveway, but I don't think What size are those homes? How many square feet with me guess? 1500. Yeah. 15 or less. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. They're small. Yeah. They're only required SF2. You're only required to have 1,000 square ft. Yeah.

And then the second story I think cuz I mean another thousand 500, not sure. And by the way, I found an old chart. I guess our standard was 35%. Back in the day. Yeah. Then it went down to 25 and then up to 30. Okay. Um, so how many people were on the subcommittee? Well, I did a meeting of one. Yeah, that's just someone that needs to meet with. Uh, I mean, I can we can have more if

No, I don't want to do that. Yeah, I can. Yeah. Well, listen, I know nothing other than listening to what an engineer would have to say. You have to form a subcommittee because we're not supposed to work on these issues. Oh, outside of the the meeting sub, but the subcommittee gives you the ability to meet. So, I'd like on that basis, I'd like I'll set up a meeting with engineering and whatever if we can vote the motion. So, um, all in favor of the motion.

And here it is in wonder what is that? What does it look like that? I'm not going to drive. Well, if I did, I would. But those golf cart, I wish I had that. Have one golf cart. My brother had one. He ran in. I see from the tree. I saw one on 12. Oh my god. Yeah, they're driving up another rose. Are they crazy? I think so. Well, you know, like Puerto Ris you can go on those roads if you you register.

Yeah. Yeah. I've seen them driving all through town. I mean in Wimberly. Uhhuh. And I've seen them on 12. Oh, very long. They should be able to, but the way people come cruising into Yeah, it's interest. Yeah. Okay. Um, report from council. I don't have a report.

All right. If there's anything else, uh, we'll meet in September. Hopefully Pat will be back. He was just out of town for two weeks doing more. And um Karen gets back in October, but she probably won't be back till after our meeting. So it'll still probably just be the four of us for September and October. But what I'd like to do is um at our next meeting bring answers to what engineering thinks about uh these things and then um go have a list of variances that we're discussing and have a vote on those variances. Um, so that I mean someone can agree to the uh uh agree to the uh setback but maybe not agree to the onecar garage or something. So we'll we'll we'll attack each of them and then um I'll write a report and I want the report finalized that you guys sign off on the report. So that would be at the October meeting. So we can finish this issue um by the October meeting. Uh and then next month we will have to start we're looking at driveways. Uh the council has asked us to look at reducing three spots to deep spots which we'll discuss start discussing next week. So next week we'll have a couple of things to work. Okay, nothing else. I'll go ahead and adjourn at 5:46.