Planning Board - Regular Meeting

Good afternoon. My name is Jason Grubs and I'm the chair of the city county planning board. Welcome to the October 10th meeting of the planning board. At this time, would you please stand and join us in the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America

and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Today's meeting is being broadcast live by Winston Salem TV digital media and will be re rebroadcast at 10:00 a.m. Friday morning and again at 4 p.m. Sunday afternoon. Additionally, on demand recordings will be available on the city of Winston Salem's YouTube channel. Our first order of business today will be the consent agenda containing items for which the petitioner is requesting withdrawal or continuence or items for which the planning staff has recommended approval and no one has signed up to speak in opposition. For our public hearings today, each side will have 12 minutes. There is no rebuttal period. Once the public hearing is closed and the board goes into work session, no one is permitted to speak unless the planning board asks them a question. The items under section B of our agenda will will require final action by the elected body, either the Winston Salem City Council or the Forcy County Board of Commissioners. As such, votes taken today are recommendations which are considered by the elected body during their review of the requests. For general use reszoning requests, the planning board must consider the full range of uses allowed in the zoning district being requested. The petitioner may not refer to a specific intended use of the property. For special use district zoning requests, the petitioner must identify the intended use or uses of the site and give specific details on how the site will be developed. If you're addressing the board today, before you begin, please give us your name, address, and zip code for the record. First item on the consent consent agenda is the approval of the minutes of the September 11th and September 25th meetings. Is there a motion?

Move approval. Motion by Mr. Lamb. Second by Mr. Patinho. Any discussion? All those in favor sign of I. I. That's unanimous.

Prior to continuing with the consent agenda, we want to take a few minutes to honor my predecessor as chair, Mr. Chris Leak, who served two terms on the planning board as just a small part of his many years of distinguished service to the citizens of the city of Winston Salem, which we'll hear more about in just a moment. At this time, I'd like to ask Vice Chairman Salvador Patinho to present Mr. leak with a copy of the resolution of this board which I'm about to read into the record. At the conclusion of the reading of the resolution, I believe former chairman Leak would like to make a few comments and we'll also give our board members and staff some time to also make a few comments. And I forgot to recognize uh assistant city manager Aaron King who's with us today. Thank you for being here. All right, this is a resolution honoring Christopher B. leak for his service as a member of the city county planning board. Whereas the city council of the city of Winston Salem, North Carolina, and the board of commissioners of forcy county, North Carolina appointed Christopher B. Leak to serve on the city county planning board. And whereas Mr. Leak served the citizens of Winston Salem and Forcy County as a member of the city county planning board from March 2017 to September 2025. And whereas he promoted a culture of professionalism, respect and compromise as the chair of the city count city county planning board from July 19th to July 2025, July 2019 to July 2025. And whereas his experience working in the financial services and wealth management industry has given him an interest in the impact of planning decisions on the business community. And whereas Mr. Lee has contributed insights concerning the need to promote economic vitality and development in disadvantaged areas of the community. And whereas he invested time and energy to thoughtfully evaluate each item presented to the planning board for consideration during his tenure. And whereas Mr. Leak served as the planning board liaison for the 2018 West Suburban Area Plan update. And

whereas he provided guidance and input on the development of the forward 2045 comprehensive plan. And whereas Mr. League has devoted an extraordinary amount of time serving on the boards of multiple organizations in Winston Salem and for South County, including serving an 8-year term on the Winston Salem Board of Adjustment. Now, therefore, be it resolved that Christopher B. Leak is recognized for his volunteer service to the community through his membership on the city county planning board and we extend sincere appreciation to him for that service and wish him health and happiness in his future endeavors. Be it further resolved that this resolution be made a part of the public record and a copy of this resolution be furnished to Christopher B. Leak adopted this 10th day of October, 2025 by the city county planning board.

Thank you, Mr. Lee. [Applause] Thank you so very much. Um, you know, as as um, you know, I I have very very Okay, please, Mr. Lee.

Yeah. Uh, 27101 100 North Main Street, Sweet 2500. Um, you know, I've I've heard that you never delay gratitude, so I want to express my gratitude um to the dedicated board members, the elected officials, and the citizens of Winston Salem. Uh, this has been an honor and and I made a list of people I want to thank because whenever I'm doing something, it's not about me. It's about those who put into my life. Um, Mayor Joins, the county commissioners, city council, Paul Norby, Aaron King, U, Arnold King, Chris Murphy, Kirk, Amy, Terara Shelley, um, Clarence Lamb. You know, when I first took over as chair, I had no idea what I was doing because when, uh, Arnold wanted me to be chair, I never thought I would replace Arnold. I just thought he would be here forever and that's what he told me. He said, "I'll be here forever. You don't have to do anything." And and he lied to me. So then I had to do it. And for my first several months, I'm sitting beside Clarence like, "What do I do? What do I do? What do I do?" And he guided me graciously through that. Uh Jason, who sat beside me, when I couldn't pronounce a name, I would always slide it over to Jason. How do I pronounce the name? Uh Brenda Smith, who's just been a bullwark on this committee. Uh she's been here for over 20 years and when I had questions I would ask her questions and her knowledge. Um Walter Faraby Salvador Jack those who are no longer here moment Ray Alan Younger George Brian Melinda Dunigan I've always said Melinda made me a better planning board member because those who remember Melinda she knew the book back and forth like she could do a site plan. I just heard Jason saying 20 minutes you could do that and then Tommy Hitch. Uh my last remark I would say the planning board continues to open doors. I hope you continue to open doors for more attainable housing choices. Uh continue to modernize and update development standards and do it all

fiscally responsible. You know, I think our city and downtown, you know, I remember sitting here and we did the the Marshall Park. And there's just so many concerns our community has and I think it's up to the planning board to think futuristically into how do we make this work? How do we make this a better place to live, work, and play and continue to make this what we call the city of the arts? So, thank you so very much. It's been an honor to serve the citizens and the planning board. You're in great hands because the staff is second to none. So, thank you.

Thank you. Before we open it up, because I know there are quite a few folks up here that want to say things, I I'm going to uh exert chairman privilege and go first because you and I started the same day on the planning board. And uh I would be remiss if I didn't say that I'm I feel a little bit lost without you up here because we kind of navigated it together. And when I when I took

over as chair after after you retired, I I made the comment that I felt like I had big shoes to fill. And certainly that a lot of that's because of my friend and mentor Arnold King, but really a lot of that's because of you. You made everybody on this board better because number one, we knew you were going to be here, so we better be here. We knew you were going to be prepared. We knew you were going to be well-dressed. Um, so, you know, we we had to step up our game as well. And uh I I think you always approach things with so much common sense and try to find ways to say yes and get other people to say yes to things and um I just we're very much going to miss you and your your insight on this board. Thank you.

And then we'll just start we'll start down here and kind of work our way around I guess if anybody has any comments they want to make. Well, I didn't make the list but uh we did work together for about a year. you know, you always miss somebody, right?

Uh, no, I I I say that because I lament that I I didn't have more time um to spend with you uh up here and the short time that we did share together was very helpful for me as one of the newer board members as well. I remember our first lunch and um you just taking me out and and introducing me to to what was to come and it was very helpful in prep preparing me for this responsibility. So, um, I look forward to everything that you'll do next and that long list of accomplishments continuing on into the future.

Thanks, Lindsay. Well, thank you for your time on the board. Thank you for your consideration of the needs of the city. um kind of like Lindsay was just saying, I remember we had our lunch uh when I joined the board and you really showed an interest in some of the issues that um have been prevailing the city and trying to figure out ways that we as a planning board can really help. And so hopefully, of course, we'll see you again. Uh maybe you can come back and heckle us a little bit or something, shake us up. Uh but it's been great working with you and uh wish you all the best.

Thank you. And Chris, I appreciate not only the intelligence and expertise and wisdom that you brought, you know, to the board, but just the way that you compassionately listened to what was going on in the room and did, like Jason said, try and find a way to make peace between uh maybe not waring, but opposing uh parties. But what I really appreciate appreciate most about you is just you're a good man. You're a solid citizen. and I appreciate the the public service that you do for our community. Means a lot coming from you. Thank you.

Thank you, Chris. Uh I really appreciate both the mentorship and the grounding that you brought into this board. You always were there to kind of teach all us who are newer to the board of how stuff is uh done and kind of bring us under your wing a little bit. And then also the grounding comes into like whenever we would have a packed house and you would always see that there might be somebody who didn't get to say something that we hadn't heard before and you knew when that was actually the case and being able to reach out to those people and say hey we heard from this side of the room but what do you have to say? uh I think that is something uh that is unique because you can actually tell from the way you look at the people and how you listen to the people that they have something different to say. So that's going to be missed and hopefully we can continue that legacy.

Thank you. Well, I guess I'll just kind of echo what Clarence said about the quality of character and the genuine concern for the communities. very very sincere, always in mind all the different sides and wanting to do what was best within sometimes limited things that we could do but always acknowledging the concern for the people whether they were happy or not with what turned out for with that and I guess one thing I wonder if I had joined later would I have gotten lunch? Yeah, I would have take you to 1703. Yeah.

All right. Just just confirming. Thank you. uh sitting here at this moment, the thought has crossed my mind that probably the ultimate sign of a great leader is someone you don't feel like you're being led by and I thank you for that. You're you're a master and a pro and uh those skills will be missed. Thank you. Best wishes. Thank you. We never got to overlap, but I'm enjoying getting to know you the last month or so. So, yes, sir. in touch. Thank you, sir. Yes, sir. Sir, former chairman. How's that? That's better.

We spent over 16 years together uh on between the board of adjustment and the planning board. And you know, again, I really appreciate all of your items that you and I have talked about both in the public realm and u when we have our one-on-one conversations. And you know, again, I hope that uh you and I will continue to do that. Um because again, I don't look at you as just a planning board member. I look at you as a friend. So I really appreciate everything you brought. Thank you,

Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, Ammeritus, like Arnold King before you, I will always see you as one of our great ameritus chairman of the planning board. As Jack said previously, Chris, you weren't someone who led by demand. you were someone who demanded excellence of yourself and as such your staff was always glad to provide that excellence as well because we knew that's what was expected and again you're a great leader and you love this community and those are the hallmarks of a great chairman of the city county planning board. We'll miss you.

Thank you and thank you all so so much. It really means a lot. I know you got to get on with the meeting. Even uh this young man showed up so I'm like excited. I hadn't seen him. Um I I I will be working with uh Aspire, which is the housing authority. Um so I'm I'm looking forward to to that challenge and to um helping in any way that I can in the community. So thank you so very much. Is there anything else for the good of the order? I guess you're a jerk. Thank you. Thank you all. You're welcome to stick around. Stick around.

All right. We'll continue on with the consent agenda now and I'll call on Mr. Brian Wilson to take us through that

tough act to follow. Um, Mr. Chair, members of the board, uh, we'll start with our first item that is C1, uh, PBR 2025-12. Uh, that case was continued a few times. They've actually asked to withdraw that case. Um, they really need to go back, uh, kind of the formula and and do some site redesign and they they plan on coming back within the next Next item is B1, that's W3662. The petitioner is city Winston Salem. This is for Brookberry Farm phase 13. Uh this is a zoning conversion from forcythe county MUS to city of Winston Salem Mus uh for a pending annexation. It's a 12.85 acre site located at the eastern terminus of Charlotte Drive and at the northern terminus of Hilly Creek Lane. Uh you can clearly see where that phase is going to be outlined in yellow there. This is the remainder of Brookberry's own uh MUS here. And then you've got the single family neighborhood uh also to the south. Uh the RS9 and that's the aerial. Uh they have not started grading work yet.

As of February, they hadn't started grading work. Well uh and our on-site pictures have not started. Yes, sir. um area plan does recommend uh residential single family detached uh units at a density of zero to eight dwelling units per acre. That's uh the proposed odos plan will be generally consistent with that. But again uh this is just a zoning conversion and not really consideration of underlying land use. Staff does uh support this request and I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have. Any questions for staff? All right. No one signed up to speak in opposition to this item. Is anyone here opposed to this recommendation? Seeing no one, I declare the public hearing closed. What's the pleasure of the board?

Mr. Chairman, I move the plan board find that the request is consistent with the comprehensive plan. Second motion by Mr. Lamb, second by Mr. Patinho. Any discussion? All those in favor sign of I. I. Any opposed? That's unanimous. Mr. Chairman, I further move the planning board recommend approval of W3662. Second. Motion by Mr. Lamb. Second by Mr. Patinho. Any discussion? All those in favor sign of I. I. Any opposed? That's unanimous.

Mr. Chairman, our next item is B2. That's W3663. Petitioner is the Winston Salem for South County Board of Education. They are requesting to reszone an RS7 RSQ and RM18 zone properties to RS7 and IPL. You can see uh the majority of the site would be reszoned to RS7L and then there's this one portion, excuse me, I don't have my later pointer on. You can see the the the small portion there. Uh they want to resent that to IPL. Um again, not uh there are several uses that are requested here, but it's anticipated this may be the future site for the Ash Elementary site. The IPL zoning request is to allow for a potential electronic message board sign. Uh the site is located on uh east of Highway 52 and west of North Cleveland Avenue between East 21st Street and New Hope Lane. And it's a 7.3 acre site. This is the aerial. Uh the site is largely undeveloped and partially wooded. You can see the built environment there. I've got this uh small park here to the west. Uh this PB zoning here to the south for u kind of a mixture of commercial uses. This is the HO project here in RM18. And then a church there to the east of the site, single family homes to the north of the site. And this is the East Northeast Winston Salem area plan update. Uh does recommend a mixture of uses res uh uses uh commercial institution and raises of res residential uses for this location. Uh this also does works in concert with uh Cleveland Avenue homes transformation plan. uh that new public schools could bring activity and connectivity to this area. Therefore, the request is consistent with both the airplane recommendation and uh the general recommendations of Ford 2045 to locate schools uh uh in um areas that have good

pedestrian interconnectivity. Uh staff does recommend approval of this request and I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have. [Music] Any questions for staff? No one has signed up to speak in opposition to this item. Is anyone here opposed to this recommendation? Seeing no one, I declare the public hearing closed. What's the pleasure of the board? Mr. Chairman, I move the planning board find that the request is consistent with the comprehensive plan. Second motion by Mr. Lamb, second by Mr. Patinho. Any discussion? All in favor? Sign of I. I. Any opposed? That's unanimous. Mr. Chairman, I further move the planning board recommend approval of W3663. Second.

Motion by Mr. Lamb second by Mr. Tinho. Any discussion? All those in favor sign of I. I. Any opposed? That uns.

Mr. Chairman, our next item is B3. That's W3664. Petitioner is Omega Seafood LLC. This is the Stratford Grow site plan shown in your agenda book. Requesting to reszone from RS9 to RM8S. It's a 13.54 acre site located on the west side of South Stratford Road and south of Somerset Drive. It's just south of this uh unopened rideway on Kimwell here, Kimwell Drive. I'll uh outline that in just a moment. Uh the site is bounded by uh mixture of RS9 zoning on the west. That's a single family neighborhood here. This RS9 is actually um a fire station. You have uh some commercial zoning on uh the eastern side. And um let me go ahead and show you on this aerial here. This is a non-conforming dirt storage business. It is legally non-conforming. So um at least to date, it is proposed to remain in operation. Uh the site is uh heavily wooded and undeveloped. And you can see that existing shopping center to the north there as well. And this is the southwest suburban area plan update lany's recommendation map. It does recommend lowdensity attached residential units at a density of 0 to eight dwelling units per acre. The proposed density for this request will be 7.75. So it's uh right within the uh area plan recommendation for the property. And this is the proposed site plan. Um the plan shows 105 total town home units uh and 19 uh total buildings. They are proposing a new internal street network with principal access through off of South Stratford Road here. And uh they working with Winston Salem DOT they are going to open this uh unopened rideway along Chemwell so they can get uh further incon interconnectivity to the shopping center to the north and allow secondary means of access to the site. Um they are showing one storm water

device in the central western portion of site to manage all uh storm water. Uh they're showing all required buffer yards. Uh the common recreation area with a uh clubhouse and pool area at the entrance to the site with the attendant parking area. And here are the proposed elevation showing those twotory town homes. They're uh garage entry um town homes. The request is consistent with the recommendation of both the area plan and for 2045 to locate uh mixture of housing units in the serviceable land area and especially along growth corridors. The site plan meets all UDO requirements and staff does recommend approval of this request. I'd be happy to answer any questions that you might have.

Any questions for staff? No one has signed up to speak in opposition to this item. Is anyone here opposed to this recommendation? Can we speak Mr. S? uh board was gone when we got here. Yeah, you can. Um are you you speaking in opposition to it? Just comments. Okay. I mean, it's up to you. I mean, generally speaking, if we're if we're going to have a public hearing, we probably need to pull it off consent and just hear it after we hear the other consent items. Say that in English.

So, what we'll have to do is the the first items we do are items where there's no one here to speak in opposition or to make comments. And so we'll have to kind of postpone further discussion in your comments until we go through a few more items and then we'll come back to this one. Okay. Come out.

All right. Uh now we'll be moving on to B4. That's W3665. Petitioner is Parker Real Estate Development uh LLC. Uh it's the Dmore Street Town Homes. actually just located just south of the last case that we were uh beginning hearing there the the other town home case. Uh petitioners requesting to reszone from RS9 to RM5s. It's a 2.03 acre site located on the north side of Densmore Street between South Stratford Road and Brandy Wine Road. Again, uh there are uh a couple of commercially zoned properties on South Stratford Road. there um is RS9 and one LISAN property uh across Dmore Street and those are all constructed single family homes. I'll show that in just a moment. So again, there's that non-conforming uh legal non-conforming uh dirt storage operation. This is actually taking out a portion of that and then the the remainder of the site uh will continue operation at least as far as staff is aware. And you've got the existing single family homes there just to the south of the site. And then the other reszoning cases uh a little more further off site to the north. And as previously mentioned, the southwest suburban area plane update does recommend uh low density attached residential uh at a density of 0 to eight dwelling units per acre. This is just below five units per acre, meeting both the requested zoning district and the area plan recommendation uh for the site. And this is the proposed site plan showing 10 uh total units uh in five buildings. You could classify these either as twin homes or duplexes depending on whether they'll be for sale or not. Uh the development is going to be served by one single storm water management device in the northwestern uh corner of the site. And uh each of these units will uh outlet directly onto Densmore Street. There's no need for an

internal drive given the way that they've designed this. Um the estimated traffic generation is estimated to be lower than or possibly equal to but uh at least in the estimate lower than what would occur with comparable single family uh zoning utilizing the the existing RS9 zoning district. And this is our concept rendering showing how these are proposed to to look on the exterior. Uh the request is consistent with the recommendation of both the area plan and 42045. uh site plan meets all ED requirements and staff does recommend approval of this request. Be more than happy to answer any questions you might have. Mr. Chairman, if I could that they would also like to speak on this one.

All right. So, we'll remove that from the consent agenda as well and we'll just wait if anyone has questions for staff. We can wait and handle that in the public hearing. So,

Mr. Chairman, and we will also be having a staff report on this case. That's B5 W3666. And our next item is B6. That's W3667. Petitioner is Longleaf Properties LLC and Wilson Legacy LLC. This is the Bethabra Village Apartments. Requesting to reszone from RM18 to RMUS. It's a 7.36 acre site located uh on the north side of the Babra Road and Oldtown Road intersection. You can see uh all the adjacent sites to the north, west, and east are all either RM18 or RM18S. There is some RS9 zoning to the south. And I'll show you in the area in just a moment. There is a existing uh church there to the south. Um the site is bounded by a railroad rightway on the north. And again, you can see the site is partially developed with six existing apartment buildings. They're proposing to bringing it all in comprehensively to reszone this. And uh you can see that existing uh church building there to the south. And this is Monarchus Creek going further to the south offsite. Uh the East Northeast Winston Salem area plane update does recommend intermediate density residential at a density of 8 to 18 units per acre. The petitioner is requesting uh generally the same land use uh at a density of 19.6 6 acres, excuse me, 19.6 units per acre, which is generally consistent with the area plan recommendation. There's no district between RM18 and RMU at this point. So, that's the reason they needed to ask for that RMU district. And this is the proposed site plan. Uh they're requesting to add uh three additional uh multif family apartment buildings uh highlighted in green here and then one leasing office that's highlighted in blue. I do want to point out one change from the agenda book. Uh this was something that um the applicant

had to work uh very quickly with with Winston Salem DOT. The original um driveway location was a little bit further to the west along with road and it wasn't aligning with this intersection. Winston Salem DOT and the developer did work uh work with them to realign this driveway location. That's not reflected in your agenda book. So, just be aware that will be something that's contingent with the driveway permit to align this and have it at a signalized intersection for the increased traffic and uh quite frankly to make this a better location for the existing apartments as well. Uh the site will be served by a new stormwater management device shown in the southeastern portion of the site. Uh the original development was not required to do storm water management. It was actually predates our current storm water ordinance. Um, so they're going to be capturing all the storm water from the proposed expansion along with the area highlighted in pink. Uh, the the uh storm water ordinance says that you either need to divert water around your new development or capture it. So, they're capturing that that runoff from the parking lot area and and managing that through that existing storm water or excuse me, that proposed storm water device there. And these are the proposed elevations. It's a 40 foot 45 foot in height. So be held to that elevation since we have elevations condition. I do want to bring your attention to one letter that we received uh late um right before planning board. That's at your um at your um your spots there. I don't know if you want to take a moment and look at that. I'm happy to discuss any of those points. We do have uh several conditions of appro approval that are standard for multif family developments of this nature.

And just to provide a little more context on uh what Brian was saying, staff did review these conditions. And for the most part, these conditions fall into one of two categories. either they're things that our ordinance standards already address or they're things that are beyond the scope of what planning and inspection staff can legitimately address through conditions. So overall, we feel that the the proposal is responsive within the parameters of the law.

Thank you, Kirk. and uh just mentioned that the site plan uh elevations do meet all UDO requirements and staff uh does recommend approval of this request. Be happy to answer any other questions you may have. Uh question, did you say a um signal will be put in at that intersection? My conversation with Winston Salem DOT, they are they are looking to signalize this intersection since it will then become a four-way intersection and I believe they're going to this will be an ongoing discussion with the developer as to how that's going to be uh placed. still in planning but potentially at Oldtown Road. Correct.

Okay. And in the um in the um plan, is it a median coming from the western side of Bethera? It's not a raised median. It's a painted median. So that's one of the reasons they wanted to move that. It's just a painted median. you could still try to make a frankly dangerous left turn across traffic to be able to get out and especially considering the increase in the number of units. That was something that DIT wanted to address at this stage. Okay. Any other questions for staff question was the uh was there affordable housing project just to the west of this

to the northwest across the railroad tracks across? Okay. Mhm. just a couple months ago, right? Correct. Yeah.

It's been through three times through for some site redesigns and other things over the course of time. Just as a point of clarification, two things. Uh the act the site plan that is in your packet is correct. Uh it actually does have that on there. When we were doing our slideshow preview yesterday, I happened to be on the letter that came from the petitioner for the neighborhood meeting that had the site design in the wrong place. So, it is in there. The correct one's in there, but so is the original one. So, that was my confusion. Secondly, just to be clear, there already, it's my understanding there already is a signal at Oldtown and Babra that this would hook into. Um, I I may be incorrect, but

I think that in either case, they're going to have to change it to a four-way stop. So, there will be some signalization changes. Okay, I'll put it that way. Down the streets. Any further questions for staff? No one assigned signed up to speak in opposition to this item. Is anyone here opposed to this recommendation? Seeing no one, I declare the public hearing closed. What's the pleasure of the board? Mr. Mr. Chairman, I move the planning board find that the request is consistent with a comprehensive plan. Second. Second by Mr. Lamb or motion by Mr. Lamb, second by Mr. Patin. Any further discussion? All in favor sign of I. I. Any opposed? That's unanimous.

Mr. Chairman, I further move the planning board recommend approval of W3667. Second. Motion by Mr. Lamb. Second by Mr. Any further discussion? All in favor? Son of I. I. Any opposed? That's unanimous, chairman. And is my understanding that someone in the audience does want to speak for this case? Um I'm happy to preface it or we can wait to have a full staff report. Are they some somebody here speaking in opposition process? I'm sorry. As long as

Okay. All right. If you'd like to speak, then we're going to remove it from the consent agenda and we'll come back to it here in a few minutes.

All right, then we will move on to let me just backtrack briefly. B8.

All right, we're moving on to item B8. That's F1661, the final development plan. Petitioner is Impulse Energy LLC. Uh this is for the Sheets site plan. Again, you probably recall this from earlier this year. This is an HBS two-phase zoning uh development. Uh the legacy school is offsite. And I lost my pointer again to the west. Um and again, this is a final development plan request. It's a 3.08 acre site located at the uh west side of Holder Road and Lewisville Clemens Road intersection. And probably familiar with this at this point, but there is a fair amount of commercial zoning uh to the east of the site and uh a little bit further to the north and then RS30 zoning to the south. You can see that existing IPS zoning on the western portion and then this is uh all HBS here on on this property and then additional out parcel and uh they have not had time to begin site work. So it's the same uh as you saw in the resoning. And just a reminder, this was the area plan recommendation, but again, the zoning is in place. This is a uh final development plan request. Just to give you a little more context, this is the this was kind of an outline of the overall development. The school already went through u the resoning process in the phase one portion of the development. Our consideration here is the phase two portion and more specifically this dark gray area for the sheets location. And this is the proposed site plan um generally shown exactly how um we've seen in other iterations uh with a new public street extension of Holder Road on the north and then a 90 degree intersection with a new public street stubbing to the north. They're going to hook onto that with a new internal private drive that will again provide uh further interconnectivity not just with this site but the other private drive proposed on the southern end of the

site. Uh internal internally they're show showing the uh convenience store uh and then individual fuel stalls. They're showing all required street yards and plantings. They did a a good job of showing all required sidewalks along all uh relevant frontage to give additional interconnectivity. And these are the provided elevations meeting the phase one conditions. And again, the site plan and the elevations meet all phase one conditions and UDO requirements. Staff does recommend approval of this request. And I have no other comments. If you have any questions, just let me know. Any other questions or any questions for staff? No one signed up to speak in opposition to this item. Is anyone here opposed to this recommendation? Seeing no one, I'll declare the public hearing closed with the pleasure of the board.

Mr. Chairman, I move the planning board find that the request is consistent with a comprehensive plan. It's okay. Motion by Mr. Lamb, second by Mr. Any discussion? All in favor sign of I. I. Any opposed? That's unanimous. Mr. Chairman, I further move the planning board approve F161. Second. Motion by Mr. Lamb. Second by Mr. Pino. Any further discussion? All in favor sign of I. I. Any opposed? That's unanimous.

Okay. And now we're moving on to the next section, the uh two plane board review cases that we'll be looking at. Uh first one is C2. That's PBR 2025-17. This is the uh proposed Hayfield subdivision. Uh I believe it showed at one point a 61 lot PRD. It's actually 63 lots. They were able to sneak in two more lots uh during the uh inter departmental review process. Just to for a clarifying point, uh it's a 32.83 83 acre site located south of Cudden Lane at the southern terminus of Hayfield Drive and the western terminus of Shadow Lane. See the surrounding development pattern is uh predominantly RS9 just like the subject property. There is one manufactured housing development just to the west of the site and then uh that's uh the large creek to the south there kind of bounding bounding the property. I do apologize for the orientation. This is a very long site plan. uh north is to the right in this orientation. You can kind of see a really small version there just to give you a little more context. They're proposing to extend Hayfield Drive South and then also hook in uh to Shadow Lane there that will go to the east. This right uh area right here is a uh longdistance transmission line, power transmission line, and then it's bounded on the west by uh a creek and the south by a creek. So, it's fair fairly limited on interconnectivity possibilities, but they did a good job of hooking into those existing street stubs. Uh, this is a low density development for storm water management below 24% little over 17% built upon area. They're preserving a large amount of open space. They're showing two required active open spaces kind of on either end of the site and their mail kiosk area. um done a good job utilizing the land that's available to them and minimizing the offsite, you know, the the additional grading into the natural area. Um the

plan does meet all UDO requirements and staff does recommend approval of this request. Happy to answer any questions you might have. Any questions for staff? All right, move approval. Second. Motion by Mr. Lamb, second by Mr. Dino. Any further discussion? All in favor sign of I. I. Any opposed? All right. That's unanimous.

All right. And then our uh last consent agenda item that's C3 PBR 2025-18. This is the station apartments. Uh it's uh 72 proposed multif family apartments in an L zoning district. Uh site is 7.09 acres in size and it's located on the east side of Bethania Station Road just north of Brookhurst Drive. see the surrounding development pattern pattern has a mixture of zoning districts. Um there's some RM12S and RMU to the north, RS12 uh to the west, and then further to the south, another RM18 uh location. And of course, this site is bounded by the railway here and then a fair amount of flood zone further to the east. And this is the proposed site plan. Uh they're showing three uh apartment buildings with the 24 units each. They're proposing to align one um access point, aligning that with a a separate driveway across the the road there to kind of minimize any tra traffic uh conflicts. Um they're showing their required common open space near the building one storm water management device and then an additional amenity with a dog park here showing all required buffer yards and street yards. And these are the proposed elevations. The site plan does meet all UDO requirements and staff does recommend approval of this request. Um be happy to answer any questions you might have.

Any questions for staff? Um I have a question. Um if the developer is here. Are they here? The developer here. You are. Okay. Uh really um I grew up in this area not too far from here and the area is highly prone to flooding. So I just wanted to know what considerations were taken into um the design and the layout of it all. I apologize Mr. Fairby could you repeat the question?

My question was up uh for the developer about uh the area is prone to flooding. Um there have been times when all these houses and people stuck um down there in that lowline area. So just want to know what considerations were taken um in the design and the layout.

Sure. Uh I believe uh Mr. Steve Cosy's here if he wants to illuminate that for just a moment. Hey, good afternoon. Steve Cosy, Allied Design, 4720 Kester Mill Road, 27103. Uh, we're actually the site plan prepared. Our developers out of town, but um, in preparing the site plan, we did ensure that the elevations of our site will be above the regulated 100-year flood plane. I am familiar with problems in the area. I think the road routinely floods south of us. Um but um our site at least will be raising above the 100-year flood elevation. So

Okay. And then and then this site is it currently developed? I wasn't sure which site it was. I want to ask you that really. It's kind of an interesting site. Um there has been apparently fill brought in over the years. There's actually some utilities that have been installed. Uh we we're finding manholes and water lines and impertinances, but um we understand it may have been used for storage over the years, but it's hasn't been developed to my knowledge. Yeah. Okay. I think several other site plans have come through before, but um nothing. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions for Mr. Cosy while he's up here? All right. Thank you, Mr. Cosy. Thanks.

Any other questions for staff? All right. If not, um, what's the pleasure of the board? Move approval. Second motion by Mr. Lamb, second by Mr. Pinho. Any further discussion? All right. All in favor, sign of I. I.

Any opposed? That's unanimous. Gotcha. Okay. All right. Before we start in with our public uh hearing items, I would like to recognize Council Member Cypio who snuck in on me over there. Have to kind of look over the the podium. But thank you for being here. All right. We'll start with B3. Um unless someone feels like they need further um presentation from staff, we'll go ahead and shift to comments from the proponent. I believe Mr. Dicky, are you prepared to speak to us?

This is on item B3, by the way. Still got good afternoon. Luke Dicki with Stimmel Associates, 601 North Trade Street, Sweet 200, Winston Salem, North Carolina 27101. Uh, thank you for your time this afternoon uh to go over this project here. It's known as Stratford Grove, otherwise as W3664. Um, Brian had done a great job of giving kind of my presentation, so he stole most of my comments, but I will go ahead and kind of reiterate again what the key highlights of the plan are. Uh, again, this is a 13.54 acre site. the request to reszone from RS9 to RM8s for 105 town homes. That comes out to about 7.75 units per acre. Uh there's a clubhouse and a mini area that's located at the main entrance up that comes off of Stratford Road. Uh from there um and then of course then the the parking lot then is behind that that will serve that facility. Uh the mail kiosk and stuff will be integrated into that clubhouse area there. Uh with the main access coming off of Stratford Road, we have to work with NC DOT. So, there will be a right turn lane that will be provided on there. There's already a center turn lane um already on Strapford Road on that section uh from there. So, we're working with them uh when that comes through for the driveway permits. Uh their secondary access is looking for a new road within Kimwell Drive, the rideway there that will connect to Somerset Circle Drive that's into the shopping center. So, that again provides extra connectivity. That's our second means of access. Uh when we had our neighborhood meeting, we hadn't had the inter departmental review meeting yet. So there may be some comments about secondary access. I'm not sure from from the neighbors, but now that has been solidified that we will be making that connection and it's represented on the plan here. Uh there is no connection back to Brandy Wine Road. I know we had some concerns about that from some of those neighbors uh that were back there when the invites went out. So the very

first call I got was are you connecting to Brandy Wine? And the answer to that is is no, we are not. Uh the proposed traffic generation, as you saw in the staff report for this, is really approximately equivalent to an RS9 development for 65 lots that would be permitted on this. So, it's pretty much equally balanced in terms of what traffic would be generated. Um, and again, you know, traffic has always been a concern out in this area, but for this, especially Brandy Wine, I've heard has been sort of being used as a cutthrough area. Uh, again, with this not connecting to Brandandy Wine, though, everything's directed back now to the shopping center and to Stratford Road. So, I wouldn't see this really generating much traffic heading back in that that direction. Uh, from that standpoint, uh, again, the elevations here are are shown for two-story town homes with a onecar garage. uh here uh basically the lower level is brick and then more of like a fiber cement board then would be on the upper level and then here's the side elevations. Uh again as the area plan had called out within the southwest suburban area plan uh it's located in a proposed grow growth corridor there along Stratford Road uh and re with the recommendation of that low density uh attached residential so 0 to8 units per acre and we're right at that level of 7.75 units per acre. Uh we did have our neighborhood outreach that we we always like to do before we we make our plan submitt. So uh what's highlighted here in yellow is the site. Uh the white dashed line that goes around that that's the 500 foot notification area. Everything that's highlighted in red is who we sent notifications to for our our meeting. So we like to go well beyond that 500 ft uh from that standpoint. So we had a total of 311 invites that went out uh to property owners. uh we did have nine neighbors attend uh the meeting uh and I also had two phone calls in regards to that. So unfortunately a little bit of a low turnout for the amount of invites that we had sent out for this request. I'd like to see see a little bit more. Uh but the the staff report uh then had our report for you as well and the questions primarily studed on traffic. What we're going to do with storm water management uh what's the kind of

concerns about maybe sanitary sewer that we're tying into the existing sanitary sewer with the neighborhoods here. Uh when we went through the inter departmental review comments uh with the city staff uh from utilities, there was no concerns about capacity in this issue. Obviously, when we go to design that that final design for that sewer connections, uh that'll be looked at even further. Uh we will be connecting to the sanitary sewer line that is in the in Brandy Wine. Um and the developer has worked with a neighbor to obtain an easement for that to be able to take place. Uh overall for the reason I think we for approval of this is the resoning request is consistent with the southwest suburban area plan and recommendations uh from forward 2045. Uh the proposed zoning provides for additional housing along a designated growth corridor, not just your standard uh single family. Um it's adjacent to and provides additional walkability and vehicular connectivity to options to a shopping center directly to the north. And this also includes a food line grocery store. So making those connections is not only can you if you live in this development you can walk to that as opposed to drive. Um and again it provides a good transition from the Stratford Road commercial section development back to the single family residential area there on Brandy Wine. Uh again the traffic generation is approximately the same as if the site was developed under the existing RS9 zoning and then staff does recommend approval and I'd be happy to answer any questions that you may have at this time.

Any questions for Mr. Dicki? All right. Thank you, Mr. All right. Thank you. How much time? We've got over seven minutes remaining. All right. Is anyone else here um to speak in support of this proposal? All right. Uh seeing no one will shift to opposition. And before we do that, just as a reminder, each side has 12 minutes um prior to beginning your remarks. Please state your name, address, and zip code for the record. So, if you're here to speak in opposition, now's your chance. I ain't got a lot to say, but I don't know who did the uh traffic count, but anybody that's going to leave this

I'm sorry, sir. Could you give us your name, address, and I'm David Dinkens. I'm at 111 Gamble Drive and and your zip code 27103. Thank you.

Uh I'm concerned about traffic and everything he mentioned. You know, uh, anybody leaving this place is going to cut back through Brandy Wine to go to anywhere on this side of town. The only way to come back out of there is to come back through here and go back through Brandy Wine. And the road is really not wide enough for two-way traffic. I I go through there every day and I get run over for the cut through people. I mean, literally have to pull off the grass to get traffic to go through because they're cutting through at 50 mph. Uh my other concern is the city's u the city's comments were addressing bringing sewer in all from Straford. Uh we got a 8 in pipe from my understands up many times since I've lived here and we're talking about putting in another 105 units on the same sewer system. I mean I think that the approval was based off of going on Stratford not Brandy Wine. So, I'd like them to look at, you know, the sewer line capacity and then the storm water. I mean, hope to not just dig a hole and hope for the best. I mean, I've lived here, you know, for 25 years, but like three years ago, four years ago, the whole area has flooded multiple times. I've seen multiple yards with a foot. Like, my daughter lived three houses down, had two feet of water in her basement. The guy in front of her had four feet of water in his basement. So, you know, the storm water is bad in this area. I mean, and this is only going to make it worse by opening this up and taking down the the trees and all the natural runoff, but just I'd like somebody to look at, you know, the storm water, water and sewer and traffic a little heavier. That's all I got.

All right. Thank you. Before we move on, the staff I I might be the only one I'm struggling to see where the connection with Brandy Wine is or how Yeah, I had a question about that, too. The area map, it's easier to see. Okay. It's It'd be more obvious. Well, I mean, Mr. Chairman, what I would say is again, I mean, obviously, come out there, you got to turn right. And if you're going to go to that side of town, you're going to go that way. You're not going to go back against Traford Road. Mr. Chairman, if if if I could if you would go back down to the site plan.

Sure. If I lived in here and I was going back to the left, I would go to the north and go back to the stoplight just north of Greek guys in that shopping center because there is a traffic light there. If I'm going back points to the north, I'm not going to go south, turn on Dinsmore, and then go up Brandy Wine and then go to Somerset to get to a traffic light that I could have gotten to um by driving directly to the north. Um

amazed. Well, I mean, again, you know, that's that's certainly an opinion, but one of the reasons why we wanted this project connected to the shopping center was to allow for interconnectivity to the commercial, but also to get out to to stop lights. Uh, you have a stoplight at the shopping center on Stratford Road and then where the shopping center itself ties into Somerset at Sheets, there's another light, I believe. Um, so again, from that standpoint, uh, we would see, uh, generally speaking, most traffic would probably want to go back out to a light as opposed to taking the circuitous route down Brandy Wine. As far as sewer and storm water, I mean, those things are evaluated uh, from the reszoning standpoint, but they also have to go through specific permitting processes. Um, you know, obviously this is a preliminary review and approval, but whenever it comes time to actually uh get the infrastructure development permits and those kind of things, they would have to go through and um get the storm water permit, get the grading erosion control permit, get the utility connections, which includes uh that information has to be sent to the state. So again, there are um there are checks and balances in place that address um the storm water and the um sewer connections.

Like I said, the city comments showed a point on Straford, not just All right. Um how much time's left? 10 minutes remaining. All right. Is anyone else um here to speak in opposition? Come on up, sir. If you'll give us your name and address and zip code for the record, please.

Good evening. Afternoon. My name is Jim Sullivan. I live at 2594 Brand Pine Road, Winston Salem, 27103. I'm really not here to speak so much in opposition as I am concerned about the traffic that has already been mentioned a couple of times. Um, and that I do have a question for the gentleman. just address that. That first stop light as you turn um north on 158, that first stop light leads into the um shopping center there. So that that doesn't you can go one more block and there you can turn left on um the um I forgotten the name of the street right now.

You referring to the to the Somerset

Somerset. Yes, thank you. Somerset, there's not a light on Somerset there. There's not a light there. You can turn left if you're going um north on 158. You can turn left. If you turn left at the stoplight, you go right into the shopping center. If you turn left at the next road is is is uh Somerset. So, okay. But I I do want to compliment you on the fact that you're working to provide uh needed housing in the city of Winston Salem. I've heard that. I've been here 12 years and I've heard that voice quite often. So I compliment you on working toward more housing. However, in the area we're in, Brandon Wine Road. I live on Brandon Wine Road and that that area has now we have the um Somerset Heights to our west that has I'm not sure 250 some units I think. I'm not sure about that number. And then we've got the the one that is um over on Stratford. I I think that will be fairly minimal amount of traffic except where as as a previous person has said the people um come out of that subdivision and turn right and then go back up Brandywine to to avoid the traffic at the sheets service center and that we are being bombarded right now with traffic through there even before uh Somerset Heights is completed. We're being bombarded with traffic uh coming down Bruh Brandy Wine and it and the road is too narrow to handle even the traffic we have now and there are places where you have to pull over especially at the entrance of Brand Wine from Somerset. You really literally have to pull over and let the traffic go by you either that or take out a mailbox and so

it's it's that tight. So I would appreciate uh we all would appreciate and I've talked to all not all the residents but quite a few residents about the concern. Um so the road itself needs widening um in order to be safe. We have um another concern we're having more and more and I've I've spoken to Alex Stone. Is Alex was it is this Alex? No. Okay. Um the uh he's a traffic engineer with the transportation department and um he has looking he's doing a study now 30-day study of the traffic flow and the need for uh some type of um traffic cushioning as he has described. We need something that slows the traffic down. We're having cars sometimes come through. I I don't have a speed meter out there, but we they must be doing 70 at least 70 80 miles an hour and this we're talking about in a in a about a quarter of a quarter of a mile length of road. It's straight as an arrow and it's gives you some elevation and it's seems to be very inviting to those who like to like to see how well their car is doing. So, we really appreciate taking a look at at that. Um, and we have lots of people now that use this road as a a place to walk. And uh, I I think if something is not done, and I'm going to speak on with a bit of urgency here. If something's not done, I'm afraid we're going to get somebody killed because these cars are going, some of them, it's not a whole lot. They're going really fast, but some, they open up and it look, it sounds like they're on a drag strip. So, we need we need to help with that. So, I would really appreciate you addressing that. Um the um transportation department I know

will be working to see what they can do. We appreciate that very much. Uh we'll see what kind of uh Alex said that we're doing a um a speed check. Um and the number of cars count of the cars using this. We've not had any major accidents on the on the road is so straight. But um we as all the residents on Brandy Wine and it's uh the streets that read in lead into Brandy Wine uh we we need help in looking at this as we have now three housing developments. We've got Somerset Heights and the one on Stratford and the one on Dinsmoke that are right next to where we are. So I thank you for listening. I appreciate the concern and some attention to this. Thank you. All right.

Any questions for Mr. Sullivan? Thank you, Mr. Sullivan. Thank you. Anyone else uh here to speak in opposition? Five minutes remaining. Five minutes.

Okay. Seeing no one, I'm going to declare the public hearing closed. Any discussion on this? Just so for a point of clarity, will the sewer be accessed via Brandy Wine or Stratford? I feel like I heard Mr. Dicki say Brandy Wine. I know that was one of the points that was raised. So, if we could just clarify to help clarify with that. So, there is sewer up in Stratford Road. So, when staff is looking at their report, they're looking at what's adjacent to the property itself. So, when they see that there is sewer, then they can say, "Yes, there is sewer available to the site." does not necessarily mean that's what will be used to service the site because Stratford Road is high and the site slips away from from Stratford Road. So there's only a certain portion up at the front that could ever tie back into Stratford Road. So since everything gravity flows to the west towards Brandy Wine, our gravity sewer connection will be in in Brandy Wine unless we put in a sewer lift station to take it all the way back up to to Stratford Road. So at this point a easement has been negotiated with a neighbor to be able to tie into the Brandy Wine. Okay, great. Thank you.

Thank you. And it is 8 inch pipe. Thank you. So, and then I think the second point on storm water, um, you know, hopefully what we've seen in the past with some of these storm water management systems being installed, it can help some of those pre-existing conditions. Um, so my hope is that you might see some improvements there as well. Um, and I guess with that, with all of this development underway, it sounds like the neighborhood is very engaged in reaching out to Winston Salem DOT. Uh, this is can be a tipping point for enhanced focus and attention on areas of concern like Brandy Wine. So, I encourage you to stay engaged. Um, and then remind me whose ward are we in here?

This is uh in Council Member Andre Bowen's. Okay. So, reach out to your elected officials as well. um and and and continue to stay engaged. But thank you so much for for coming forth with your comments. All right. Any further discussion? Is there a motion? Mr. Chairman, I move the planning board find that the request is consistent with the comprehensive plan. Second, Motion by Mr. Lamb, second by Mr. Pino. Any further discussion? All in favor sign of I. I. Any opposed? All right, Mr. Chairman, I further move the planning board recommend approval of W3664. Second. Motion by Mr. Limb, second by Mr. Pino. Any further discussion?

All in favor sign of I. I. Any opposed? That's unanimous. All right. So, this matter will go on to the Win Salem City Council for consideration at one of their future meetings. Um, so if you want to be heard further on it, you can certainly go and and make your voice heard again and I encourage you to do so. All right, Mr. Chairman, the next item is B4 and I think we'll do something similar to what we did since you already heard the presentation uh on the consent agenda. What I would say is I believe this is this case uh was prepared by um Allied Engineering Steve Cy. So perhaps we would want to hear from from them first.

All right, without objection, we'll go ahead and hear from Mr. Cosy. Good afternoon again, Steve Cosy, Alli Design, 4720, Kester Mill Road, 27103. Um, I suspect concerns will be similar. Um, not to dis dismiss any of the concerns, but uh, I think you've heard traffic generation is comparable to the single family allowed under the current zoning. We are proposing storm water management. Um, we did reach out to the neighborhood via mail. We did not have a meeting, but we sent uh letters out to the community. I think you've got a summary there. Um, we're connecting to the existing street. Um, but that's that's kind of in summary where we are. Be glad to answer any additional questions.

Any questions for Mr. CY? All right. Thank you, Mr. Cosy. How much time's left? 11 and a half minutes. All right. Anyone else here to speak in support of this proposal? All right. See no one will shift to the opposition. If you're here to speak in opposition, if you'd like to come on up, give us your name, address, and zip code for the record. I think somebody said they Can we just assume it's the same comments? Comments. All right. Okay. Got it. Thank you. Appreciate that. All right. Anyone else here to speak in opposition? All right. Seeing no one, I'll declare the public hearing closed. Any further discussion?

Mr. Chairman, I move that the planning board find the request is consistent with the comprehensive plan. Second. Motion by Mr. Lamb. Second by Mr. Patino. Any further discussion? All in favor sign of I. I. Any opposed? Mr. Mr. Chairman, I further move the planning board recommend approval of W3665. Second. Motion by Mr. Lamb, second by Mr. Tinho. Any further discussion? All in favor sign of I. I. Any opposed? That's unanimous. This will also go on to the Winston Salem City Council at future meeting.

And Mr. Mr. Chairman, if I could, I would just say, I mean, again, it sounds like, again, I'll reiterate what has been said, but working with uh Win DOT and and Alex Stone about potentially doing some um traffic mitigation like the speed tables or those kind of things, I think would allay some of those concerns with that cut through traffic on both of those projects. And then obviously the water and the sewer, the storm water and the sewer again, we'll have to go through another review process for detailed construction plans. And at that point, all the requirements of the ordinance would have to be met. I mean, obviously, I can't sit here and say that the sewer line won't clog. I mean, again, you know, those kind of things happen, but uh they're not going to allow a project if there's not adequate capacity. So, again, I just want to kind of lay that information out there. Again,

that really looks All right, that brings us up to case B5. Five. Thank you. And

we'll hear from Michelle O'Brien. All right. Good evening. This uh case is W3666. The petitioner is Bless AH Incorporated. The site contains a 0.67 acre property located west of South Stratford Road between Kimwell Drive and Densore Street. The petitioner is requesting a limited use reszoning from GBL to GBL to add the uses outdoor display retail and services. today. The site is located in the southwest corner of Winston Salem in GMA3 suburban neighborhood. As you can see from the location map, the subject property is currently surrounded to the south and to the west by single family zoning. Directly to the north is zone HBS and then to the far south is also zoned highway business special use. to the far east across from South Stratford Road is zoned for general industrial. From the aerial you can see the single family home located to the east of the property fronting South Stratford Road. The property to the south while zoned RS9 um currently functions as a dirt storage operation. You can see from the aerial. And then the property to the west is zoned RS9 and is currently uh under consideration for reszoning to RM8s that you just saw. The southwest suburban area plan update designates this parcel for low density attached residential use. However, the proposed land use map was amended to recommend commercial use at this site due to the approval of zoning case W3618 that was approved in 2024. The site is located along the South Stratford Road Growth Corridor just south of the Hillrest Activity Center.

You can see designated by the black line here. This is looking west into the subject property from South Stratford Road at the existing single family home on site. This is looking south along South Dratford Road. Subject property to the right. You can see the existing dirt storage operation here to the south. This is looking north along South Stratford Road. Subject property to the left. And then look, this is looking east along South Strafford Road. The subject property is to the rear of this photo. In summary, the site lacks sufficient space for circulation, parking, and buffering, making it unsuitable for the proposed use outdoor display retail and would negatively affect nearby residentially zoned properties. The requested uses may encourage additional requests for highintensity commercial land uses outside of near nearby activity centers. And the request is inconsistent with 42045's recommendation to prioritize low inensity commercial use as a excuse me as a transition between highintensity commercial uses and residential areas. Therefore, staff recommends denial of zoning case W3666. And I'm happy to answer any questions. Any questions for staff?

I guess for the thousands tuning in watching this right now, could you give us some examples of outdoor display retail? Usually it's used for um used car lots, but it can also be for like used boats um and other other items, but most frequently we see it as used car lots and storage of build like storage buildings, those kind of things. Is there is there a differentiation between used car lots and new car lots? No. And then they tend to be pretty large if they're new. Is there no minimum acreage requirement for a a car lot?

No use specific conditions. Again, there's the there's the minimum district requirements for the districts that allow that use. It's generally self-regulating because of the the nature of the use. Yeah. And because of the surrounding properties, there wouldn't be buffer yard require or there would be would be there would be there would be a buffer yard required to the south and to the west because it's RS zoning, but to the HBS to the north there wouldn't be since that would be high intensity commercial to high

figure out how you get a buffer. I mean, your buffer yard's going to take the whole thing. Exactly. A good chunk of it. And and again, that's the staff's primary uh basis for our recommendation is just when we kind of did a back of the envelope calculation, you're not going to be able to get more than just a handful of vehicles, right? A used car. Yeah. Lot correct. For one,

did you all go through with the petitioner the the the potential of um eliminating some of these uses? Well, again, they already have all the uses except for services A and outdoor display retail. Okay, I'm sorry. Yeah, the the project, you know, this property was approved for reszoning by city council back in August of 2024. It came to planning board back the spring of 2024. or staff had recommended denial of uh the overall request at that point and planning board actually unanimously recommended denial as well but uh council um you know as is their prerogative decided that they felt like it was something that was that could be done so it got approved and then you know again I will let the petitioner speak. I'm not sure if he has had any issues in marketing that under the existing uses and u you know this is something that uh you know he has had folks reach out and would be interested in doing here. So you know again I'll let him explain why he's coming through to to add these two uses but the majority of the uses were approved in um August of 24. It's just services A and outdoor display retail are the two additional uses that are being requested. Okay. And a similar question. So you mentioned what um outdoor retail is and I know it's in here. I've read it but um what examples of service a

similar uh tattoo parlor, hair salon, barber shop um those kind of things. There are others but those are just some high level Kirk. They may have some other dry cleaner, nail salon. And again kind of any any personal service type establishment whereas services B would be businessto business services which they're not asking for. Okay. Any further questions for staff? We start the public hearing. All right. We'll start the public hearing. Um start out with uh anyone here in support. The petitioners here wants to speak. come on up and give us your name, address, and zip code for the record.

Uh, my name is David Foster, 4487 Cheyenne Court, Winston Salem 27106. So, I'm the owner of Foster Reality. I was the one who came through in August of 2024 and and did this. Um, I represented the sellers of the property at that time and this had been a um, family home for like 80 years or something like that. They were the original owners and they had as as it kept getting inherited from one generation to the next, the current generation that owned it, the whole reason we came through and did this last year was they were making no usage of it. whatsoever and it essentially sat there with a ton of deferred maintenance and was just kind of going downhill um for the last 20 years. So when they decided to sell it, they said, "What's the highest and best use for this, David?" And so my recommendation was we ought to take a look at this being commercial. Well, I mo mostly specialize in residential real estate. I dabble some in commercial, but can't say this is what I do 100% of the time. So I kind of dived into this and um did a lot of research, talked to a lot of people at that time. I think some of them are gone from the planning board. Um but just tried to figure out everything I could and you know is this a smart move, is this not? And as I was going through that and selecting the uses at that time, I selected everything that I thought would be, you know, a good potential for this property, not really knowing because at that point in time, it's still residential. I haven't marketed the property to anybody yet. I really don't know what it's going to be used for, but this is what I thought. Had I had I realized at the time that I

was kind of missing these two additional uses, I would have just included that the first goround instead of having to come back a second time and request them. Um, since then, since it was approved in August 2024, it's got a new owner now, and the new owner is looking forward to eventually um, rehabbing this property and bringing it back from the decaying state that it's essentially in or was in, and making it marketable again to local area businesses. Now, I have no idea what business is going to go in there. We haven't signed any leases. We We don't know. It's not even currently being marketed for lease uh at the time being. Um it's got to go through a lot of rehab and permitting and all these other things. So, we're probably looking six plus months out before anything even really happens with it. Um but that being said, I did start talking with some potential people because as they saw that the the property sold and you know, people started reaching out to me, oh, this is commercial now. you know, we might be interested in this. Um, I started as I started talking to them, I said, "Okay, great. Well, you know, we're we're still a ways out from being able to do anything with the property, but you know, what type of business do you have?" And, uh, people did start coming back. Some were within that services a category, you know, nail salon. I had a hair salon that had mentioned something to me. Uh, actually, more like a barber shop, but same concept. Um, and uh, and also I had two or three different people that came and said, "Hey, we would like to do like a little mom and pop used car lot here." So, I was like, "Huh, interesting." The two uses that I didn't sign up for the original time around and doing this is what I'm seeing people the feedback I'm getting now that we're

potentially looking at marketing this soon in the future. And uh so I realized, you know, gosh, you know, as the new owner begins to get it ready and is going to start rehabbing the property and doing what all they need to do so that eventually this can be leased out to a tenant. Um that's when it was like we need to go back through and uh see if we can open it up for these two uses as well. Uh, it may not end up leasing to a mom and pop used car lot or it may not even end up leasing to a barber shop or nail salon or whatever. We don't know. The the main thing is we just want to open it up to any potential because we kind of feel like well anything is better than it was before. Um, so now that we've got a new owner who cares about the property, who wants to take care of the property, and who just wants to add to the business community here locally, uh, we just want to make sure that we have everything open and available for someone who might want to lease it. We we don't we don't want to put any constraints on it, obviously, that aren't approved. So the more we can open it up to and market it to as many types of different businesses, that's that's ultimately what our goal was. And again, had I known all this in 2024, we would have just included these two uses then. But um here we are now. Any questions?

Uh yes. Um, have have you drawn a little map with the boundaries of the property and the and the dimensions of the setbacks and so forth to see what's actually left.

So, um, they they're now currently working with an architect to try to figure out all these things. You know, the hard part is not knowing what the tenant requirements are going to be. I mean, if obviously if it's approved for outdoor display retail and a mom and pop used car lot comes in, well, they may have uh certain requirements for a type, you know, a parking lot, you know, how many can you get on there? One, two, 10, 15 cars, I don't know. Um, if it ends up being u a little accountant's office or something, you know, that it won't be the same requirements or needs from that tenant. So, it it's hard to say what the property is ultimately going to be used for. Um, they're trying to mock up um with an architect now as they're going through and doing some permitting and things. Um, you know, the best way to potentially do the parking situation, things like that in regards to all the buffers and all that. But, you know, I guess that's the best way I can answer that question.

Thank you. Any other questions for Mr. Foster? Thank you, Mr. Foster. Absolutely. Thank you guys. Appreciate it. Time is left. Little less than seven minutes. All right. Anyone else here speaking in support of this check? All right. Is that somebody in opposition or I put it to rest? Pardon me. All right. If there's no one else here to speak in support, we will shift to the opposition. Is anyone here to speak in opposition to this proposal? Sure. Come on up. Give us your name, address, and zip code for the record, please.

Um, Julie Magnus, 630 Theomore Street, Winston Found 27103. I drive by this property quite a bit. As a matter of fact, I just went by it yesterday uh to go to I think it's called Midsouth Sand and Gravel now. And um the house looks great because there's been a lot of work done on the outside. It's nice and green instead of more wood than white paint. But um I'm just floored to think that outdoor display could be a use here because if somebody's coming to that site, there's got to be a driveway cut to get in there and there's just not much place around that house to put outdoor display use. That's just my comment from going by that and seeing it and over decades here. Thanks.

All right. Thank you very much. 11 minutes. Anyone else? 11 minutes remaining. 11 minutes. Anyone else here to speak in opposition? All right. See no one will declare the public hearing closed. Any further discussion? Yep. What are the sideyard requirements? You already brought it up, but I do want to know what they are. They are 20. Is that what they would be? would GB in and of itself does not have any against the HBS against the HB again there wouldn't be any okay RS9 to the RS9 uh again I think as far as for a new building it would be 40 ft 40T

uh for parking I'm not 100% sure if that has to meet that same 40t or if that's a structure um the buffer yard's 20 feet the buffer yard's 20 but there's a provision for a non-residential district adjacent to a residential district as far as a building setback. Again, if they utilize the existing structure, the existing structure would be legally non-conforming, it would be fine. They could not build a new structure and be within that 40ft area. The park the outdoor display retail parking area could be within 20 ft. They would have to have that buffer yard, but the the setback is a structure setback, not a parking lot. What is the front uh frontage along that lot? It's 100 100 feet.

It's 100 foot lot. 100 foot wide lot. Okay. You know, question. Go ahead. No, go ahead. I'm sorry. As far as the legally non-conforming use to the south, could this property being zoned GB? I guess it would have to be that would have to be an appropriate use to use it for more of the same or or is the non-conforming issue going to keep them from doing that? This property in and of itself would not be able to be utilized for the sand storage, gravel, that type of stuff because it wasn't part of that original site.

Right. Of course, you know, you know, at the time when Somerset was going through and whenever this case was going through um back in 2023 2024, we knew that this the recommendation for the area plan recommended all this to be multif family. You know, again, at the time, we thought that the the the gravel entity had gone out of business and then this piece of property that's in for this request and then also the two properties to the north could all be integrated into an overall project for multifamily along this growth corridor. Obviously, as we go a year and a half to two years down the road, that hasn't come to fruition. Um, the the SAND entity is still in operation uh and will continue to do so. This resoning is here. You already have the two pieces of property to the to the north that are underutilized. It's there, but it can't expand. The sand and gravel can't expand onto this and on this piece of property in and of itself. They can only do what the city council ultimately approves. If that makes sense.

I think I answered your question.

You did. Thank you very much. Um qu uh question comment I don't really like as people said the the um outdoor display doesn't really seem appropriate here the size and all of that so we have been asked to reszone it from GBL to GBL uh for the addition of the two uses could the board approve now services A seems like something that could be um a type of business that would fit in this um structure. Could we approve? How does it work? If we wanted to prove that or I don't know, is that two steps or what? I don't know.

You could not without their permit. In other words, I think you could say you could ask the petitioner would they be willing to consider dropping outdoor display retail and just moving forward with the services they use. And if they agreed to that at at this forum, then you could make the approval with that as a recommendation of approval based on that consent that you would receive from the petitioner. And again, I'm assuming you would want to ask him that in a second. If he is not willing to do that, then I mean, in other words, you can't send it forward with the recommendation of approval without everything they've requested. If they're not willing to remove it,

you know, remove that use, then at that point you have the choice to make. Do we send it forward approval or do we send it forward deny? Denial. Okay. Uh, so I was just going to say I do I think that's worth asking and exploring um if we could remove that if you'd be open to a removal of that particular use for us to feel more comfortable with. Mr. Foster, you want to come on up and give us your thoughts on that?

And if he also needs to speak to his client, again, the other option is you could continue it for a month and come I mean again and come back and it could be held here and then come back in November if he needs to check with his client. I mean that that's kind of where I was going with that is unfortunately what I don't want to do is make a decision that could be detrimental on their behalf if they feel completely differently than so I would rather talk with them see what their thoughts are and go from there because if I say one thing it shuts it down to this point and they say something different now I'm the bad guy. if it would be helpful to you. I I think this board would probably be supportive of a continuence to a future meeting

if you want to take some time to confer with your client, but you'll have to request that and then we'll have to Sure. vote on it. Sure. So, okay. So, we can move to continue it. I just want to say while you're thinking about this, it seems like things are a little bit out of sync in terms of the normal process. If you apply for something, you would have knowledge ahead of time what the buffers are for everything that you're going to use. So, this might be an opportunity to go back and get some of that information and then decide whether you want to pursue that or not because if it's something that's not workable, um I would hate to see the not the site not get reused. Sure.

By keeping it in. Mr. Chairman, the the the the next plan board meeting is November 13th. Okay. Would you would you like for us to consider I I think that's a smart plan going forward. Yeah. All right. Okay. Is there a motion to do that? Moved. Motion by Mr. Lamb. Second, second by Mr. Patinho to continue to the November 13th agenda. Any discussion on that? All in favor? Son of I. I. Any opposed? All right. So, that'll move to our November 13th agenda. Mr. Mr. Chairman Board, that brings us to item B7. And for that, we'll hear from Ellie Levana um for the staff report. Yes.

All righty. Good afternoon. So, case W3668, the petitioner Fred and Mary Simon's joint revocable trust. The site is 0.58 acres located at the northwest intersection of Oakwood Drive and Queen Street. The request is a site plan amendment which proposes to expand the parking area and enclose the carport of an existing residentially scaled office building. The site is located in GMA2 urban neighborhoods. So the subject property is surrounded by residential and institutional uses. To the west and north are multif family apartments and single family homes to the south. To the east is Temple Emanuel. So the site is developed with an existing office building and associated parking. The property has uh access to public utilities along Oakwood Drive. So the site is located in the southwest Winston Salem area plan update which shows the parcel uh as residential. However, the previous resoning to LOS, which happened in the '9s, um established the use as offices. So, this is looking south along Oakwood Drive. The subject property is to the right. This is looking west along Queen Street. The subject property is to the right. Uh this is looking east from the subject property from Oakwood Drive. This is looking into the subject property at the existing building. This is the proposed site plan. It shows an existing 2,360 ft office building which is being expanded to 3,300 ft by enclosing the carport and part of the current parking area. The site plan shows the required type 1 buffer yard along the uh northern and western property lines next to the adjacent apartments. In addition, the per the petitioner is proposing a 10- foot wide streetard along Queen Street and Oakwood Drive in lie of the allowed uh five foot streetyard, which is allowed since this

is in GMA2. There are some reductions uh which uh for the streetyard. Um so the site plan also shows all of the required street yards and sidewalk connections. They're proposing a sidewalk connection on Oakwood Drive into the site itself. So the site plan meets all um UDO uh requirements. Uh this is the proposed uh 10-ft street yard. The petitioner has worked with uh neighbors to have that implemented on the site plan. Uh this is uh the said additional condition for that. So in summary, the request conforms to the general recommendations of forward 2045 and the southwest Winston Salem area plan update. Office uses office uses typically impose few negative impacts on adjacent land uses and can provide services to area residents. Lastly, the site has excellent access to multimotal transit. Staff recommends approval and the site plan meets all UDO requirements. Does the board have any questions?

All right, there's no questions for staff. We'll move in our public hearing. Declare that open. Um, is anyone here to speak in support?

My name is Judy Stalder. My address is 1012 Wellington Street in High Point 27262. Also here this evening are Dr. Holland, the new owner of this property, and John Wade from Bor and Wade Associates, our engineers. Dr. Holland purchased this property that was previously a dentist office to move his dental practice to it for the convenience of his patients. The primary concern being parking and in order to expand the parking we had to come to the planning board because the current layout is part of another zoning uh reszoning. um his main priority was additional handicap parking that he does not have at his current office and needs um and there's only one handicap parking space here. So um the existing site plan show the current the site plan that we've submitted shows that additional parking. Um, we did that to add the handicap space and while doing it configured it so that we saved as many trees on the property as we possibly could and preserve the uh the planted buffers that are already there. Um, we had a neighborhood meeting. One neighbor from um north of the property attended and was mainly concerned about buffers on the property. We were able to tell them that we would not be disturbing those buffers. And then after our neighborhood meeting, we had a call from Ms. Magnus about adding additional width to the planting yards along Queen Street and Oak View. So, we conferred with our engineer and were able to do that and now we're asking for your approval of

the site plan as submitted. Right. Thank you. Any questions? All right. How much time is left? 10 minutes. All right. Anyone else that would like to speak in support of this proposal? All right. Seeing no one, we'll shift to the opposition. I thought she was falling.

Uh Julie Magnus, 630 Fenomore Street, 27103. I am the zoning chair for the Arbor Neighborhood Association. I would just like to say that we are thrilled to have the additional five feet to to have the 10 foot there along Queen and Oakwood. Um I was also a part of this original zoning case back in the '9s where we worked with Mr. Simmons, Dr. Simmons, and he was impeccable about getting out there and actually taking care of the property himself. This is a very important gateway to Ardmore. Um the reason I am speaking in opposition is the process not the end result. Um love to see that expanded area that Mr. Dicki showed on his map that it went out to a letter went out to so many people. I saw the sign apparently the day after the neighborhood meeting was held and none of our board members had seen it either. none of our board members fall within that 500 ft. Um the process that happened to get the 10- foot established could have been, you know, done way beforehand instead of scrambling to pick up afterwards if there was maybe an expanded mailing if the Ardmore Neighbors Association is a wellestablished group could have been notified. Um, so again, this is just really more a a process for what's going on here. Um, I would like to thank Mr. Murphy for really facilitating uh connecting us with the firm and um making it easy for me to move forward once I was aware of what was going on there. Um, I would like while I've got the time. I know we have no control over the storm water that comes off 12 additional spaces, which is more than

the current parking that's there. Now, it's a lot of storm water that goes into concealed pipes that run through individual residential homes before it dumps at Miller Park. I believe I have the storm map accurate on that. I did get it from um Keith Huff um down in Miller Park where I think this is going to be emptying. Essentially, there's already been storm water mitigation. It was an Eagle Scout, Boy Scout troop, you know, deal to get a lot of rip wrap in there to control it. So, I just hope that the city is going to be very cognizant as we're moving forward that uh adding additional parking in areas around Ardmore is a real hardship for a lot of people. A lot of people don't even know they have those concealed storm drains on their property because it's not something that's on a deed. I was thrilled to see that the recent survey that was sent out here just recently includes some questions about storm water because it's a it's a real hardship and I know we don't have any way to mitigate it here. But um just wanted to to make note and and please be cognizant of it as we move forward with uh how 20 45 develops. Sorry. Um but thank you and uh yes we are pleased that the uh buffers are going to be retained and as much of the trees as possible.

All right. Thank you Miss Bank. Mr. Chairman, just before if the board decides to make a motion on this case, you will need to make a motion to add the condition that staff presented about the 10-ft buffer yard. Again, that was something that we worked on with the petitioners after the book had already gone to press. Sure. Before we do that, is anyone else here uh to speak in opposition? All right, that's the case. We'll declare the public hearing closed. Any discussion? All right. It was pleasure of the board. Mr. Chairman, I move the planning board find the request is consistent with the comprehensive plan. Second. Motion by Mr. Limb. Second by Mr. Patino. Any further discussion? All in favor sign of I.

I. Any opposed? That's unanimous. Mr. Chairman, I further move the planning board rank up and approval of W3668 with the added condition that the developer shall maintain a 10-ft street yard with adjacent to the southern property line and southeastern section of the site as shown on the submitted site plan. Second. You don't want to say all that? No. Motion by Mr. Lamb, second by Mr. Pet. Any further discussion on that? All in favor sign of I. I. Any opposed? That's unanimous.

All right, Mr. Chairman. Next, we'll have uh the first of two text amendments uh B9 and we'll hear from Dan Roberts. Uh this is a text amendment related to a signed provision in the county. All right. Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, members of the board. I'm here to discuss UDOT text amendment CC30. The petitioner is for Scythe County, and the request is to amend section 6.5.2.4 to revise sign regulations for parks and recreation areas open to the public. The county is currently developing a 200 acre agriculture and recreation park north of Tobaccoville, which is expected to draw out of town visitors for regular use and special events. As such, the county believes an appropriately sized sign would help visitors more easily find the park. The park's entrance is located in RS20 zoning, which limits sign area to 18 square feet. And the current county sign regulations do allow parks and recreation areas larger than a thousand acres to have freestanding signs of up to 75 square feet in area. And the county believes that this provisions should include parks and recreation areas um of 100 acres or more uh such as this new park that is going in north of Tobacco. As mentioned, planning staff agrees that a 75 square foot sign would be appropriate for such a large facility. It would ensure that visitors can easily find their destination. Therefore, staff rank remains approval.

All right. Any questions for staff? All right. Any discussion? All right. What's the pleasure of the board? I move the planning board find that the request is consistent with the comprehensive plan. Mr. Chairman, second motion by Mr. Lamb, second by Mr. Patinho. Any discussion? All in favor sign I. I opposed. That's your hands. Mr. Chairman, I further move the planning board recommend approval of UDO CC30. Second motion by Mr. Lamb, second by Mr. Pin. Any discussion? All in favor, sign of I. I. Any opposed? That's unanimous. All right. Guess I missed it.

Yes. Yes. Brian, could you help me where he says we're getting close?

All right, Mr. Chairman and board members, uh, making a a switch in my, uh, location here for the next 60 seconds or so. Uh, this is another text amendment, uh, UDOccc31. The petitioner is planning and development services staff. Uh, the request would amend various sections of the UDO which reference the city county comprehensive plan. Again, as you all are well aware, uh, the city and the county commissioners recently adopted forward 2045. The plan replaced the previous legacy 2030 plan which of course was an update of the original legacy. The UDO uses the proper name of this comprehensive plan document and various places and as such adoption of a text amendment as necessary to correct and update references. Uh the proposed amendment will replace the specific words legacy legacy 2030 with forward 2045. It'll also uh replace references to Metro Activity Center and Community Activity Center with simply activity center since the new comprehensive plan doesn't differentiate between these centers based on their size. We're also proposing a definition for forward 2045 to replace the current definition of legacy 2030. And overall, these changes will ensure that our comp plan and our development regulations use the same terminology. Staff recommends approval. Well, I'll be glad to answer any questions.

Questions for staff? All right. Any discussion? All right. Pleasure board. Mr. Chairman, I move the planet board find the request is consistent with the comprehensive plan. Second motion by Mr. Lamb. Second by Mr. Pino. Any further discussion? All in favor sign of I. I. Any opposed? All right. That's unanimous. Mr. Mr. Chairman, I further move the planning board recommend approval of UDOC CC31. Second. Second by or motion by Mr. Lamb, second by Mr. Finino. Any further discussion? All in favor sign of I. Any opposed?

All right, Mr. Chairman, I believe that brings us to staff report. And with that, I will quickly turn to Kirk who'll give you a preview of your October work session coming up in two weeks.

All right. Well, Todd, back into the last item and uh the comprehensive plan. As you all know, once we get a new comprehensive plan in place, one of the main tasks is going through and updating the area plans to uh have the consistent ideology uh etc. with the recommendations of those plans. So, Amy and uh uh basically long range folks have been working on a process for new area plans, area plan 3.0. I guess you you could say. And uh we're going to be talking about that at the work session. We're also going to be uh having Erica Palmer, our uh public art uh commission staff member, present the annual report of the public art commission. That's all I've got. Thank you.

All right. And with that, I'll turn it over to Mark who give us the preview of your November case load, which is now plus one, more than what you have on there. I'll say it's outdated. Um, so you've got 12 total items now. You've got um seven resonings, two major subdivisions, and two planning board reviews coming to you on November the 13th. That's good.

Yep. And Mr. Mr. Chairman and board, the only the last thing I have and I didn't have anything beyond that until um the last public hearing on the last zoning reasonzoning public hearing that we had just as a little bit of a reminder and a refresher related to public notification uh up until the probably the late 2000s early 201s maybe into mid20s I can't remember the the only requirement in the only statutory requirement then and today is to notify adjacent property owners. The UDO up until that time only required notification of adjacent property owners and looking at the subject property that was reszoned there at the corner of Oakwood and Queen that would have required notification of nine people. Uh the actual notification uh for that case uh probably covered 70 80 parcels would be my guess. I'm just hazarding the guess here because again you have a lot of uh condo town home type units you know like footprint type units airspace whatever so again fairly extensive so it changed from adjacent to 500 ft in the um like I said late 2000s early 201s but not only did our notification requirement change we also put into place to have a neighborhood meeting we don't specify what the neighborhood meeting parameter ters are we basically recommend that you do it to the area uh that is going to receive the legal notice from us but you can do more than that but that's basically considered the minimum so again over time things have evolved um you know Miss Magnus is is heavily involved in the neighborhood alliance she's heavily involved in the Arma neighborhood association but I don't you know in or unless we had a notification area that was 2 miles it

would not have gotten to her house.

Um, so again, you know, this is trying to strike that balance between what used to be, what could be, and this kind of feels like is what's right. The one thing that I would say is um our process hasn't changed in the 24 plus years that I've been here. The zoning meetings are at the same time. The information gets posted on on our website now. Um uh I can't speak much to T before websites, but essentially all that information is available. So I would just encourage any neighborhoods that have an association that have a zoning person just to make sure that they're checking our website every month to kind of see what those cases are so they're familiar with that because obviously we don't we're never going to have a notification requirement that's so extensive that it's going to you know send a mailing notice out to everyone. We'd have to send one to the entire county every fairness too. No one two miles away should control a property that you know I mean 150 is the front door to my neighborhood that's two miles away but I don't consider that within my uh extra judicial territory.

Yeah. You know, and again, in fairness to her, I mean, again, she is the zoning chair for our board, but as such, it sound, you know, again, she she and whoever else serves in a similar role should be regularly checking our website. And if they don't know where that is, feel free to reach out to our staff and we'll help them. Again, at the end of the day, if they send us an email saying, "Hey, what's what's on, you know, we can refer them to the website, send them the link, or send them the um long form, which is our Excel spreadsheet and a PDF and the map if if there are any questions. Is there any size limitation to that 500 foot radius um requirement or the neighborhood meeting? It's does it have to be a certain number of acres or a certain

The only thing it says is is if you're reszoning if if your reszoning request is is if there's any residentially zoned property within the 500 foot notification area, right? So, in other words, if you're in the middle of a commercial area and you're going from GB to HB, I mean, you can have a neighborhood meeting, but there's not really a requirement to unless you have residential within that 500 foot area. Yeah. For small projects, it really is an ownorous requirement. Yeah. For small things. Anyway, Mr. Chairman, that's all I have. All right. There's nothing else. We have anything for the good of the order? Our motion to adjourn. All right. Thank you. This job is a complex meeting.