Historic Preservation Commission - Regular Meeting

So we'll call the meeting to order. The first item on the agenda is the minutes approval from the July 15th meeting. So if the members would please review, recommend any corrections, or make a motion for acceptance. We have a motion to accept. Do we have a second?

I second.

All in favor?

Okay, very good.

Okay, on to new business. The first item on the agenda is for consideration of the COA for approval of signs, or for approval of a sign at 19 East Candler Street. Map and parcel number is on the agenda in your packet. So if there's anybody from the, or if the applicant is here or somebody representing the applicant, if you would like to come up and speak, the members may have some questions for you or they may not. Nobody's here. Okay. Okay.

Do we have anybody from the public who would like to speak?

In favor or opposition? No. Okay. With that, I'll bring it back to the table and let members converse amongst themselves or may have questions for staff. This is just for a single wall sign on the Jackson Street side, correct? Yes. Okay.

Looking at what we have in our packet, it's just a sign that's 22 by 96, the metal sign with the digital print on the building. So it's a standard what we've seen on most of the other ones that we've had lately. And I don't see where it is. It's a mental sign, so I don't see an issue with where it is. It's not illuminated or anything like that, so I don't have a problem with it.

Any other comments or questions from the commission?

It's going to be screwed in, correct? Is that what I said? Metal screws? Yeah. My only concern, and maybe I'm blowing it up out of proportion here, but with it being that stone facade, if it was the brick, maybe, but that stone with the mortar, Are we concerned about that causing any damage?

Well, the preference would be that it go into the mortar and not the stone itself. Right. I don't think we can dictate that, though. We can recommend it.

Okay.

I'm just thinking about the whole truck. I mean, that is a historic building. That's an older facade. And so I just want to make sure we're not, you know, that they're drilling into the mortar. Yes, that's where we want it. But is it going to cause other issues? That's my only thought. But, I mean, yes, mortar can be replaced pretty easily.

Yes.

If the holes are pre-drilled, they would usually use, I can't think of the name of the solution, but it's almost like a silicone thing to go in. And then as the screws go in and it dries and then it doesn't really, the pre-drilling helps to keep it from, you know, disturbing the rest of the thing. And they'll put some silicone in there. And it will dry. Okay. And that will keep making sure that it doesn't disturb any of the rock work or anything like that.

I don't think you can make that a condition, but you can make a recommendation. Okay.

I mean, I saw that it's Patty Ann Taylor Design. Patty Taylor Design doing it, and I know I've come across this board a few times, and they always seem to be doing good work, and they don't really seem to cause issues with the building. So I have confidence there, but... I think making a recommendation might be just to cover.

So would the motion be to approve with a recommendation, or do we just do the motion and then just have the recommendation to the record?

Just do the motion and then do the recommendation. Okay.

Any other questions or concerns? Do we have a motion from any of the members?

A motion to approve.

Okay. We have a motion. Do we have a second?

I second.

We have a second. All in favor? Aye. And I guess we'll call it unanimous consent to make the recommendation that the attachments go into the mortar. Okay. Pretty good. Item number two was scrubbed and will be possibly done at a later date. Item number three is the next item on the agenda that we're here to discuss. And this is for preliminary feedback for renovation of a commercial building within the district. And do we have anybody here from the, this won't be a voting item. This is just for us to discuss and I assume provide feedback.

Yes.

Yes.

Okay, so I'm actually the co-owner of the building. I've been here before. I think I've met a few of you guys. Initially, we wanted to talk about what we can put there, what Winder would allow. But now we're going towards, we've kind of decided on what would go there, which is a big part of it is Thrive Coworking. And they are in downtown Duluth. They're very specified into other downtowns, downtown Duluth, downtown Alpharetta, downtown Gainesville. So we are trying to coach them to come into downtown Winder, which I believe this building would be perfect for. Right now, currently, the way the building sits, it has stucco on two sides, the main facing street, which is North Broad, and I believe the side street that goes into Lumpkin, I don't even think it has a name, but it's the one adjacent to the railroad, that has stucco as well. So those two sides you can prominently see. And then towards the back, it has a parking lot, and that side is brick. And that's the original brick that the building facade is. I believe at some point during the past 30, 50, 40, 50 years, they have probably added stuff to the brick facade. So obviously the layout that I kind of showed here is very preliminary. The reason being because we want to make sure that you guys have an understanding of what we're thinking. And of course, we take recommendations along the way. We want to keep as much of the original stucco as possible. I normally assume that's what preservation is for. So we were going to keep the stucco on both sides, but We're also kind of navigating between engineering and what we can keep because the roof is completely caved in. So it is something that is going to need full renovation on the second level. The first floor level, it seems to be stable, but again, engineering will be more determining of that on the structural standpoint. And I'm a general contractor, so that's why I kind of understand the building development side of it. So second floor, we're still trying to ascertain what We can keep what we cannot, and that's purely based on engineering. If they say it's something that has been structurally damaged, we would have to replace probably the side that's towards the railroad because that's where the roof escaped in. So there is absolutely water going through. You can see sunlight. So it's something that needs to be completely redone. With that said, the brown section on your paper, the one that you see on the exterior side, that is the original stucco. It would be the painted portion of it. We would obviously need to add more windows based off of what Thrive needs as well as I know I read the preservation guidelines. You are not allowed to remove windows, but you're not allowed to board up the windows. You are allowed to add more windows as needed. So that is going to be one of the things that we would be adding on the second and the first floor would be multiple window bays, which would make it look way better than the building looks now. So this is definitely a preliminary rendering. The brown portion is the original speckle. And then we would add a little bit of dimension, which we would kind of break it up with. different forms of either siding or stucco or brick or other different types of facade. And that would be the original part on the building standpoint. And I'd love to get your recommendation based off of what you see at the moment.

My question would be on the front of the building, if I recall, there are a few windows on the front, correct? Correct. Okay, so looking at your plan, are you planning on keeping those or adding?

I believe over time, I mean, I'm just going to look at it from a general contractor standpoint. Mm-hmm. I think it has got leaks and penetrations through those windows over time, so I can already see the water damage that's coming through. If we can keep it, we would like to. If not, definitely would have to replace them. So it would be ideal to keep them. That saves us money as well, of course. But we would definitely have the same number of windows, if not more, on the front elevation, which would obviously make the building look much better than it does now.

So I'm also looking at the plans on your first floor, on the side of the building, which that place is the railroad. Yes. And I'm looking at your first floor plan. Yes. So you're going to be adding one that's on the lower level.

That's a great point, yes. And at the moment, there are no windows. That's why it got depicted that way. But, yes, we would definitely add it on the first floor as well as the second floor. So if you actually look at the second floor on the same level, we would try to mirror that, if not make the windows on the first floor a little bit larger, like dual, even triples. That just gives it a better facade.

So also on your second floor plan, I see you have, are you extending and making a balcony on that area?

Yes, and that would be overhung. I believe I asked that question on the first meeting that we had, and I think as long as we don't have posts, we're allowed to encroach into the sidewalk. It will almost be like an awning. So it's going to be like cantilevered. It will be cantilevered, absolutely. It will be cantilevered, and it will be structurally sound designed that way with trusses.

You have on page 60. The windows here that we see are those basically the type of windows that we're talking about?

We would like to do it that way. It is, but it is one of those commercial style windows with the, I want to say it's eight pane on each one. So that would be the style that we would want to go for. That's the one, obviously we're kind of mirroring what Thrive has done. in Duluth, even in Gainesville. So at some point we'll be able to share those images and kind of follow that model.

Those are almost like the ones that are on there now, but they're just smaller.

They are, correct. I want to say they might even be the same size. It's just if we replace them, we would be able to add grids to them.

You're using the existing building. You're not tearing it down? No, no.

Our goal is not to tear it down. Structurally, the way it looks, preliminary structural analysis that a structural engineer did, the beams on the first floor and the columns on the first floor, they were steel, and they are sound. We obviously have to do more research. So first floor looks very much reusable. It's the second floor that we have a little bit of concern with. And that, of course, goes out to the facade as well because it caved in from the roof that has damaged the second floor. Towards the railroad, it looks like it has damage on the exterior wall as well. So that's our biggest concern when it comes to the exterior facade.

Are you committed to keeping the stucco? Was it ever in your dream to take the stucco off and take it back to the brick?

I mean, just speaking out loud and... I would say it would be kind of a cost analysis more than anything else. We've done stucco buildings. I've redone them, and it looks very great. But I love brick, too. So if we could take it down to brick and it's a minimal cost to us, I would be open to doing that as well.

And I can maybe add a little bit to this. I'm Ramon. I just started Thrive about 11 years ago. We've done over 20 of these out in Georgia and other states. I shall mention we kind of specialize in being these cool, walkable, mainstream areas. And we've done a bunch of rehabs with historic projects. For us and kind of how we work together, it ends up always being about cost. These things are so darn expensive. Who doesn't love beautiful brick, period-specific? But sometimes it's a little bit tricky. And just the way that the economics work, With inflation having done what it's done over the past five or so years, even the simplest deal is kind of complicated by how the costs continue to rise. So we're working together on evaluating, can we do this economically or not? But, you know, I don't think either of us are conceptually against Brook at all. We would really love it.

Some of the buildings are absolutely beautiful right next to us, too. So, yeah.

So our hearts are there with you guys, right? It's just about the economic feasibility. Now, if for some reason we find, man, you know, stucco saves lives. a big amount of money that helps us kind of get over the finish line. We've done other fun things and different projects around the southeast to kind of help elevate the look of a building. And we've done different murals, and we have a design team that's quite good at creating different exterior elements that help to kind of elevate a space. Design is one of our strengths with Insighting Up. So we want to help bring that to bear and help. You guys have a successful project in here. So I just wanted to add a little bit to that.

Yeah, absolutely. I'll kind of add a little bit more on the Thrive side. We would love for you guys to visit one of those, you know, buildings that they've done in downtown Duluth, downtown Gainesville, and downtown Alpharetta. And you've done some of them. They're all over. So if you could go there, you kind of see different specific facades, obviously based off of the city requirements. But also, like, if they give them a free range, they kind of –

gravitates towards brick as well so um they are oh yeah they are the most comparable product is probably the gain for location it's not far from here we're right on 100 i think 100 main right on the corner there on the square it's built in like 1903 it was an old department store that place was a mess And we cleaned it up and we spent a whole bunch of money on it. And it looks great now, right? So we want to be a part of helping make that happen here. So, yeah, we love exactly what this city and that building can offer.

Okay, on that same question, you were talking about the stucco on the front of the building.

Mm-hmm.

Is brick or is it stucco? I don't remember. It's stucco. It's stucco on top of brick, technically, yes. How long has it been there? Stucco has been there all the time. So either or, if it were to use, which is, like you were saying, which is more economical to you, either one of those positions, whether it's stucco or brick, would fall into the characteristic of the original building, would it not? So we would consider that as being more in line to what it was like when it was erected.

Mm-hmm.

They are. It's either vinyl or wood on the second floor. On the first floor, I believe they're commercial aluminum, like very much like modern windows on the first level.

A lot of it said on the front, it's not a store. I think this was an old warehouse.

It's been a few things. We tried to research what it was, and I believe it was, it's like all over the place. And we just can't figure out what was there originally from when the first building was built. From what we can tell is the building was almost, there's a portion of the building where there's a retail section toward that touches the Broad Street. That whole section was done after the fact. So apparently there was a building and then they added another section. That kind of makes sense because that modern element of the windows, it kind of happened after the 50s. Most likely. So someone definitely extended that period. And we can see that on the structural level, too.

On the left. As far as the window is, from my perspective, thinking about how buildings can work. I'm not sure that the double windows.

Currently, they are double on the first floor. The original building has double windows. The one on the second floor, they're all singles. And then on the first floor, they are almost identical to the way I've shown it here on the depiction. We may have added one extra window bay. I believe there's only three. So when we do it, we would have to kind of restructure. And, again, it could end up becoming only three windows. It's just more of a rendition right now. But there are metal, double, massive windows. Most likely. Because especially on a storefront, I think it would look pretty good. Maybe on the second floor we can go vinyl. But just on a durability standpoint, too.

Yeah. We can actually ask them where they get their windows from. Yeah.

We actually saw them at the DDA meeting yesterday because I know they're trying to build a playground inside the park. And they're very good people, yeah.

Like that. At least a warehouse. And so kind of that industrial look would make it a totally incompatible look.

Yeah. I think once we have a logo clarity from today's meeting, we can kind of dig deeper into, like, more of the details of the windows and things like that. We can kind of send it your way and then work from there.

I think one question I would have is related to the, let's say, how many window penetrations are, like, permissible. Because I think I might have heard that, like... We would want to maybe try to identify what once was and replicate that. But I might have misheard. So particularly on that second floor where we've got the top floor there, obviously for us, within reason, you know, the more windows the better. We're not going to just make it in one solid glass wall. But that's the most marketable kind of office thing. So could someone maybe give me a little clarity on what the expectations would be maybe for that?

The reference in the guidelines would be to use the original window openings.

On the side, no. In the front, there's ample windows opening. But on the side, I believe there is none. There's only doors and double doors. On the downstairs. I believe there's none upstairs. I've got to double check that. I need to...

I would say the story. You're right. You're right. Yeah. So, well, is it an issue for having windows, if anyone?

I mean, in a case like this where you have something that, again, kind of going back to that warehouse thought, because there's a platform there. So kind of changing doors to windows down there would not be good. There's no platform.

There's no door down on that side. On that side facing the railroad side.

There are three double doors. Yeah, it's just, I believe exactly how you said it, there's probably a warehouse where they would bring in material, and that's all they needed it for. They didn't need to, like, have anyone look through it. But in our scenario, I think we would definitely need more windows, just because it's an office space, not more of an open area.

There are windows that kind of resemble that kind of door opening size and dimensions that can give you what you're looking for. Like, on a mileage back to sort of a warehouse, you kind of... you know, effect, that would be great because that's just an important part of the space.

I think having windows is a key thing, especially for Thrive. Just people are going to be in there working and co-sharing space. It would be very difficult for them to sit in a box with no windows.

Yeah, I don't see it because I'm sure the doors have been changed out down there too. They're probably not the original doors. They're metal doors. You know, going from, you know, The doors to windows down there, I don't, again, that's just kind of me personally thinking about how it would lay out. I don't think that would be, I don't think that would be bad.

I've seen it. I don't see any downside to that. I don't either.

And then what's there, and it's also a difference, they don't have a balcony on the top, which you've got to be careful to put out if something's not there. And that building, for as long as I can remember... And as you get older, the memory gets a little short. It's been nothing there for, I know, the last 20 years. And the windows have been open, too. That's another thing I never did. I was having the windows open so I could imagine when we had all that rain. And I don't even want to imagine what the roof would look like.

There's birds in there right now.

Oh, I'm sure. Yeah, I didn't tell you. I'm sure. But I think with that being said, if you use the single windows which we have up there, which are kind of small in a sense, is there something in our – case it says, you know, you've got to go back with the same thing, or like they were thinking, maybe having double windows there or what? Correct.

On the upper storey? On the upper storey.

Correct. Because there's nothing on the bottom, so if they add windows on the bottom, so it's not just going to add more dimension to the building. Because there's nothing there as it is now, and it's just stuck on the floor. Right.

I'm kind of glad you mentioned dimensions because the front, we wanted to open up, because it's just a flat box at the moment, and it just doesn't give the architectural appeal. So we wanted to kind of go in and out of the building without actually bringing any building in or out of the footprint. So this was a good way to do that while we're renovating the upstairs area. Which, like I said, will need extensive renovation just because the roof is just completely destroyed. You can see it in the pictures. And we can kind of add more dimensions with different elements of, like, it could be siding. It could be even road or just some form of stone, things like that, just to kind of add. More dimension. That's really the best way to describe it. More dimension to the building. Because right now it's just flat.

But basically not changing the exterior of the building on the front, which is on Broad Street.

We may need to. So part of the situation is it's the roof. And if you actually, and this is, of course, an engineering thing, and I don't want to speak out of turn from an engineer, but what's happened is the fourth floor has a double brick wall all around the whole building. The second floor, they've almost just added another layer of brick, and only one layer of brick. And then it's held up by trusses, and clearly not done well because it caved in. So that's our biggest concern is the second floor may, the exterior portion of the second floor that was added later at some point, is not structurally sound. That's our biggest concern. And that's around the whole building. So the whole building is only held up by a four-inch brick. And it's weird. It's really strange. And then the structurally is tied into the original double brick walls on the fourth floor. The reason is because that is structurally sound. So they kind of tied it into that and then built the second floor on top of that. And it didn't hold up the load. And it was done wrong, obviously. So that's the engineer's biggest concern is the second floor may need to be redone completely. At that point. And then we can kind of, once we have that information, we'd come in with proper plans. And then be like, okay, this section does need to be completely renovated, and it will have to look this way. But first floor, at the moment, looks like it's pretty much structurally sound.

So if you have to, this almost looks like these little recesses, for lack of a better phrasing.

Mm-hmm.

So it's almost like a double brick, and we would put it on the interior side of the brick. And it would be done with wood and steel framing. So whatever the engineer decides to make it structurally sound. So that way we can have those depth perceptions without it being structurally wrong. That's the positive of having to redo the whole second floor because that will kind of give us that option to do that as well. It's just more expensive.

I would have to think a little bit more about the – since this is kind of – it's a drastic difference from just having a flat storefront. I get what you're saying from an engineering perspective. We're talking about material and texture.

That's right. That's our biggest, this would be the biggest achievement today would be which elements are allowed. So obviously stucco would be allowed. Yeah, it's stucco.

So, I mean, yeah, you don't want to damage the original brick.

So like if you look at it, the brown section, we just repainted the stucco on the section. But we would, let's say if we were redoing the whole second floor, we would match that stucco all the way up. as is shown here. So that would be the thought process. Even though the whole structure is brand new, the second floor will match the first floor to kind of keep it cohesive.

This is rendering as if you do have to rebuild that second floor. If you didn't have to rebuild it.

Correct. And then we would add, I guess, where the where the windows would need to get replaced. So you may kind of see new, maybe remove one window, close that off, but then kind of match the stucco again. But we would have to repaint the stucco completely after we're all done. And it doesn't have to be brown. It could be any color that looks interesting.

We can't dictate paint color. You pick the color.

We'll make it pretty beautiful. We're not going to do it. We can recommend.

We just can't dictate.

Which it is right now, actually. But I think we do need more information from our structure engineer. But right now, I think exactly what you said, like stucco is allowed, brick is allowed. And then siding would be the third question because that black area is a siding element. I'm not sure if that's allowed. Would that be okay in certain areas? You know, that's obviously to be determined.

Is it like a wood siding? It could be wood.

It could be, you know... Concrete siding, it could be a shiplap, it could be other elements to it.

I'd be less inclined to mix wood with the stucco.

We could do fiberglass cement siding, which is your hardy planks.

I think you'd be better with either a brick or a... not to get too mixy with your materials.

What are you talking about in the front of the building?

In these little recesses.

Where the black portion is?

Where the black portion is.

The idea is to break up the monotone that's all around the whole building. So that's really the whole idea behind recessing it and changing the materials. It's more on an architectural standpoint.

I think from a historic architectural perspective, the more subtle, the better on that. I think if you put, just from an aesthetic standpoint, if you put some sort of arty plank or siding around those windows, it's just going to look like a big window frame as opposed to...

It'll give it a more transitional look. Yeah, it would kind of take it out of... I guess more historic, you know, kind of push it towards transition. I wouldn't call it modern because that's probably not the right word, but it would probably kind of take it a little bit more towards the new era.

You're looking at this where the windows are and using, are you going to use that? Is that going to be black as in the illustration here?

It can be, or we can go- You haven't decided on that. We can go white as well. It truly depends on the stucco color that we select, so it kind of has to flow all together as a whole building. And usually we have an architect that comes in, and we have designers that are coming from dry side as well as ours, because they want their building to look a certain way. But it has to flow together, and I'm not an interior designer or anything like that, but- We'd kind of hand it over, and we may have a few renditions for you guys to select from.

I think that, yeah, I think that'd be a good idea.

This is very, like, fact-finding. This isn't like, hey, we really got to do this. Yeah. So don't misinterpret that. We almost want to work with what you guys are kind of throwing at us and then go back to our design team and then kind of work around that and see what works best for both sides.

I'm not crazy about the broken roof line where it looks almost like these little columns popping up. Mm-hmm.

We can make them flush.

I think flush would be more appropriate.

It does, for me, give a modern look. And I worry that it doesn't kind of flow with what we have around. It may be the colors, but that's my opinion.

No, that's fair. Yeah.

I think what we've seen, what you presented us with gives us an idea, which is a lot better than what is there at this moment. And I think as you go along and discover what the issues are in the building, which I think you're saying that those issues in the building are going to determine what you have to do on the second floor, which may dictate it. some changes in the way things are done on that side, am I correct?

That's absolutely right. Okay. You're right. And, again, like I wanted to just kind of figure out just certain major elements, like, okay, we can use stucco and we cannot use siding. You know, like those things, if we get some kind of clarity on that, which we have today. So that will kind of determine it. But we may come back next time and be like, the whole second floor is messed up. So let's kind of go back to a drawing board. And maybe all the windows need to be realigned completely. So we just don't have that information exactly like you said.

Well, one thing, Trisha was talking about the windows and this with the black and white. Do you think you're going to add windows on the side of the railroad? which is basically either some old brick or this brick underneath. Correct. By cutting in that, I think with the windows in that side and if you just cut into the brick, I don't think that would be a bad thing to do. And I don't think you would have to do anything to add dimension to the building because the windows are going to give you that 3D effect. Sure. And changing that monolithic kind of thing right there on the side.

You can, absolutely. I think in the front... It will give you to a certain extent. I think the biggest question is, again, because it's sitting on a thick piece of double brick and then the second floor goes to a single brick, we're worried about the structural element of that whole. There's no way that would be allowed nowadays to be able to just add brick on top of another one. So right now, let's say if we did have to remove that, we could push it back. to the other side of the brick, which would be on the interior side. And that just creates already a dimension that we can do. And we can do that in certain areas. That's what kind of gives us the front. But then if you just did windows, you'd only have that section as the dimension portion. We were hoping to get a little bit larger breaks in the middle because the walls are just massively long. Because this building width-wise in the front is not too bad, but then on the side it just keeps going. So we would probably need bigger dimension blocks. I guess that's the best way to say it. And the only way we could do that is with the structural element as well, plus the windows.

I think one of the things that we should do also as a committee is take a look at that. Because, I mean, some of us haven't paid that building any attention. God knows when. Go in there and look at that building on its front facade. Because everybody sees the side facade all the time. But the front facade, so get a feeling of what it looks like now. And then what issues that they may have and they can come back and talk with us about it. And then we'll have a clearer, more understanding of what it is.

I think just from a general historical perspective and knowing where that is in town, it's right across from the depot. That depot is listed on the National Register. It's right down from the courthouse, which is listed on the National Register. This area was very much kind of an industrial part of town. So if you're looking for a particular aesthetic. that would be not the traditional storefronts that you see here on Athens Street or whatever, but leaning more towards the industrial. And that's why I mentioned the steel frame windows that you see on the brewery over there. And that's why I think maybe the larger window openings, I hate to ruin where original windows are, but if you're thinking at it from a warehouse perspective, that wouldn't be... Totally incompatible. And the same thing with turning doors to windows on that lower level facing the railroad tracks. You're still getting that integration between what the building would have originally been used for, cargo, going back and forth, and having those openings with the now windows.

I'm thinking about the adaptation of a building. that as time has changed and the building is used for different things, that we don't want to take away anything from the building, but if certain things like windows are added to it, whether it was at one particular time not there, and have it there as a new addition to it, That whole side there has been just a blank orange space for like the last 20-whatever years. And I think what we also want to bring to is a little difference in that area there. And I don't think there's anything to take away from the historical sense.

Yeah, rehab of a building that's been modernized that has non-historic elements in it, like the vinyl windows and everything, you don't want it to go too modern.

I agree with you on that.

But you can't, you know, ask for it to go back to, you know. Right. We're trying to find a balance between the two.

I agree with that. And that's what I was thinking is more finding the balance of what can be done. And that's why I went back to that. On the side, if they're going to be adding windows to the side, then you were asking about this. whether the black and what siding or whatever the thing may be. And I was saying that if they decide to add windows in that area, you're cutting into the brick. You don't have to add anything else to it. You cut it out for the window that you're going to put there, and that is it. So it's encased in the brick. So you don't have that differentiation between or different textures of whether it's siding and then brick. They should be able to do just the cut it out and then put a window in there. And so you're just continuing what is there. So if you have to, if you're going to use brick, then it will be brick around the windows. Or if it's going to be suckle, it's going to be suckle around the windows. So you won't have that differentiation of material.

True. Especially on that side, right?

Yeah.

Most definitely. I think the idea for us was to bring that. depth perception even more just to kind of add more to it's just i'm not a big fan of just a flat building that people do and it just looks like a box so that's where like it actually cost us more to have break it down push it back kind of things like that so structurally it'll cost us more to do this design from what you're saying is actually cost wise that's the most straightforward way to do it it would probably cost us minimal amount so that's a positive on that standpoint But on the structural, how it would look from driving in or driving out of Winder, we kind of have to think about that as well. And, of course, Thrive coming in, how will people see it? How good would a building look with just added windows?

Right. As you said earlier, we'll probably just need to come back. Are you guys going to take a look? we'll have some more options for you to kind of evaluate. There are ways to add dimension with or without those recesses that we can kind of play around with. There's the materials, obviously matching, mixing materials at Stucco can be a little bit tricky. So, you know, like the message heard, I think that we have some work to do. So more or less the recess that you were talking about is in the front of the building, am I correct?

Yeah, that's right.

At the moment, yes. I don't remember what the front of the building looked like. That's why I suggested that we look at it. Because I know the side. I know what the side looks like. But I don't remember what the front looks like because I don't go down that way.

The front first floor looks actually pretty good. The second floor looks bad. It almost looks like they've done that two different times, but I don't know. think they have because the windows are even different so like I'm thinking they've just added a second floor on top and did it whatever was the most cost effective I believe also at that point they probably added the stucco because the stucco is uniform all around that two sides so I have a feeling they added a second floor and then they just went stucco on the two sides at some point in life I'm assuming that's the current picture of the roof it is yeah oh it's even worse on the inside yeah That's part of the biggest concern the engineer has is how much damage has that roof done to the site.

Are you guys planning on keeping that billboard?

So we don't own that billboard. Okay. The church next to us owns it. We wanted to buy it from them so we could remove it. But I think they've got a lifetime easement on it. But I'm not sure how that plays out if we don't have the second floor. You know, like it's a legal situation. Worst case, you know, I believe they're open to selling it to us. And if that works out, you know. But at the moment, legally, that building comes with a billboard that we don't own. It has its own meter. It runs and everything is separated, apparently, from us. So that's a great question. Is the billboard... Doesn't look like it. It's heavy. It's still up there. That, I mean, left alone for a very long time, that roof is going to come in. All of it is going to come down at some point. So that could definitely take down that other side as well. I mean, it is a moneymaker. I think it makes them a decent amount of money every month.

And I have one more question. For the building that you guys renovated in Gainesville, did you guys keep the structure? Did you keep the original structure?

Yeah, so actually what we had to do was we had to go back to the original period for the storefront. Okay. So the first level was sort of redone. We had a barge that sort of recessed that came in from the main door. And then you had these sort of like... Almost like a, I don't know what they call that, almost like a bay window kind of thing. The window kind of comes out when people look at it. So we had that redone essentially. But the building was pretty much all brick at that point. So that was the only thing that we had to kind of reconfigure was first of all storefront.

I have this really random question that might be. Off the wall. But in that area, either on the sidewalk or in the corner things, you know, there are those Winder symbols that date back, I think they're bronze or whatever. Oh, the little iron things? Yeah. Yeah, I don't know if this building has any. I just wondered about that.

On the building itself?

I don't remember where all they are in Winder, but there's several around and downtown. My guess is this building doesn't have any.

It does not, no. I haven't seen one on the building. Now that you're covered up by stucco. That's true. We may find it.

I don't think any of these have been covered up. I just can't remember where all of them are. Yeah. But there are several. Yeah.

I also have one major question towards the end. You know the street that is connecting Lunkin to Broad? Nobody drives on it. I think a lot of times utility vehicles are parked there. where it's the same side that we're talking about towards the railroad. And would it be possible to just close that street off so we can possibly do something that could be, you know, maybe a park or, like, you know, something more recreational in that area? I know downtown Duluth has done things like that where, you know, it kind of just turns into a place of gathering.

That's a planning question. That is your bucket.

There's no one adjacent to it except us in that parking lot. So there's not like there's another store that's using that road. No one drives through it. Actually, the road itself needs work. It's just kind of throwing it out there because that would be a great thing for maybe a playground or a food truck. Except for the trains.

Except for the trains coming back.

Yeah, that's true. That would be my question, too, is does the railroad have any rights to any of that? That's a good question, too.

The way that Duluth did it, so they built like a little park or a train viewing platform right next to the Thrive in downtown Duluth. And they had like an easement a certain amount off of the tracks. And so they like had to petition the rail system to kind of like get the right sort of development or whatever. They also worked with the – The rail company, too. I think they slow down when they kind of go through and not honk the horn or whatever it is. They've done some cool things to make it, like, a little bit less chaotic. And it's been nice. Those changes to the fact that it's not, like, a year or so.

It was really cool. Yeah. So I was just thinking, like, because there's nothing else going on there. It's either we clean it up and leave it the way it is or we can turn it into something cool. You know, obviously benefits thrive themselves because people love sitting outside and, you know, hanging out. So I could turn into that.

It would be nice to see them be able to get the train to slow down. That would be nice.

It's fun looking at it, though. I've seen a few trains. It's just like you get mesmerized.

I love that. So, Cora, in answer to that question, or finding an answer to that question, Who would they talk to to see about that side, that little street that's running there? Would they talk to someone in the city about that?

Your first step would be the planning department. for exactly what you're looking to do. There is, I'm pretty sure, an event that doesn't even allow the parking to be beside that building just because of the train. And then as far as getting a road closed or something like that, ultimately that would come down to city council.

It does. I think we did one when we were doing a neighborhood, and it's called abandoning, abandonment of a road. And it's whoever's adjacent to it, you have to send them letters, and they shouldn't object and things like that. It's the whole process, almost like a rezoning process. But it's only if you go through the county, I want to say, or the city. Go through a city. I don't know who would technically be responsible for that road. So you apply wherever, whoever owns that road, which is city or county. Okay.

greenery. That's exactly what I was thinking. That section, man, it keeps it from looking just like that blank wall like that right there. That's it.

And especially drive entrance is going to go through there, so everyone's going to be walking and going in.

Probably want to activate that side of the building. And a lot of people, when you first come into the city, you come in that way.

I think that would look really nice to have that area almost like a A patio area. Correct. With gazebos or however. Yeah, with greenery and stuff. That would add dimension to that side of the building.

Absolutely. And that's our goal is just to add more value to the building and to Winder. Because there's just so much traffic. Everyone's going to see it. It'll look so much nicer than it does now. Yeah. Anything to make it look better.

Have you guys looked at – I think I probably know the answer to this. Have you looked at historic preservation tax credits?

We were just talking about that. That's a big part of what we are going to go after next is that it's definitely a necessity. So we will get into that. I think Ramon has more information on that.

Okay. So that's a great way because you can actually spell the word. Oh, is that right? Okay. Well, then I'm not going to teach you about what you already know. But in our game show deal, it's one of a couple that we've done. We were able to sell the tax credits at $0.88 on the dollar and monetize the project so we can kind of do some of the things we've been doing.

Okay, so you'd sell the tax credits rather than apply for one.

No, we apply for them. We get them. And then there's a secondary market where you can sell those tax credits to investors that are looking for that tax shelter.

And what that does is it helps us build the building in the correct way. Because a lot of this costs... Exactly. So we would put that money into the building construction. So it comes back to the building, the construction side of the building. And it would activate some requirements. Especially if you look at, again, once you get to Thrive at any city, Gainesville, when you walk in, you'll see the amount of money that goes on the inside, interior build-out. Because this is not just... dry walls. It's a lot of glass. It's very beautiful upscale interior build out as well. So that's It's all cost-oriented, and it turns into a lot of dollars that we would need.

And the preservation, if we actually get those tax credits, they will make us use, like, period-specific windows and all that other stuff. So it actually could end up making this project, like, breathtakingly beautiful if we can get that done on TBD. Okay.

Yeah, but it definitely goes towards making that building look... better than it would if we just put our own money into it. So it definitely goes back to that.

Yep. Anybody have any other questions?

Thanks. Okay. Well, thank you for presenting. We appreciate it. And thank you for your interest in Winder and looking at this building. We appreciate it.

Thank you, guys.

We have one more item. Unless we have somebody from the public that would like to come up and...

I can't ask somebody. Okay.

So unless anybody from the public would like to offer an opinion on any of the, we're here to take public input. Seeing none. Okay. Next item on the agenda, this is just discussion and consideration for input on social media presence. What are we supposed to talk about here?

So Sarah's here, and she is going to talk about your ideas. Very good. All right. Thank you. Logistics. Okay.

I don't know if you were going to talk to me or ask questions. Renee sent me something about historic preservation spotlights, kind of like a yard of the month, house of the month kind of deal. So I've got that. I'm okay with that. I didn't know if you wanted more than just that, if you wanted to ask me questions. Yes.

We talked about this a couple of meetings ago about doing a House of the Month or something like that.

So we talked about house. We talked about businesses, like, you know, those who have within the city, just kind of spotlighting them. Also to bring kind of some awareness to the historic preservation process.

Yes, if that's something that you would want to do, I would just need to know when you're going to start it, what your first spotlight is going to be on. And then I could work with Court or Renee on what the house is or business, how to get pictures, how to spotlight it. We would just need a little bit of lead time depending on what you want. If you want historic photos, I don't know how we would track those down, but I don't know. But, yeah, just a historic spotlight. This is what Renee said we said quarterly. And so we would do a yard sign and then a social media post and a website post, some photography, possibly council recognition if that's something that you guys wanted to do.

Mm-hmm. Okay.

You know, another topic, a little bit of a setback in that was – talking about the potential for expanding the storm boost.

We can add that on if we want to discuss that.

I think we just didn't know if we could do something like that. So you being here and kind of letting us know that we could is a good thing. And then maybe we can discuss, like, when we want to start it.

It was if we select somebody's house, you know, if we collectively decide we want to do this house, do we need to get that homeowner's permission to put it on the city's page?

How does that?

I would think so.

I would, yeah. We should probably get permission.

All right. I mean, I would think that it would be good manners to ask. Yes. I mean, to get pictures of the outside, it's public. Right, yeah. We could put it in public so it wouldn't be an issue, but yeah. Right. Probably want to highlight the homeowners themselves, what they're doing.

I think one of the things that we really wanted to do was to make sure that we acknowledge those buildings that have been here in this city for a very long time and give acknowledgement to that. that they're maintained, how they're maintained. You know, they've been maintained and they're still existing to this day. And I think we wanted to acknowledge that as a historical fact.

But from my point of view, that's a great idea, but I would rely on you all to come up with that information. So you say, this is the building we want to highlight, and you come up with the history, and then we could highlight that. I just wanted to set expectations that I can put it on social media, but I may need a little help from you all with what you want highlighted.

So I have a question. I've heard monthly and I heard quarterly.

I think what Renee said to me said quarterly, but if you did monthly, we could work with that.

I guess my question comes back to is quarterly going to be impactful enough to do what we're trying to do?

I would guess that we might want to start with quarterly to see how it goes and work out through monthly.

Okay. I think we're doing.

How quickly will we run out of?

I think if you were going to do monthly, I would go ahead and pick your first six properties and then see how that goes. Because I don't know how many properties are in the historic district and how many are well maintained.

Exactly.

Yeah, we're going to have to come up with the historical information and everything. So I think let's start with quarterly.

I'm just thinking of our ultimate goal is to get more recognition, not only for the properties but for the board or the commission itself. And, like, this is what's going on. And is quarterly going to be impactful enough? Monthly definitely sounds like it could backfire on us quickly. So I'm okay with quarterly. I'm just bringing it up.

But I think if we look at getting started in that position, then how we present it is going to make the impact. if we do it in a really good way, and not a short thing, but a really documentary kind of thing, then that's going to capture the attention because we have some old buildings in this city that have stood the test of time, and they have a good history behind it, by letting people know about that in an enlightful way, I think that's going to capture the attention of the people. And if it picks up as of that, or we get a feeling of how that's impacting us, then we might go from quarterly to quarterly. monthly or whatever. But we always got to think about how long or how much do we have that's going to really give us like a year. You know, that's what we're going to look at. How is it going to impact us in a year? Yeah. And what we have to offer in that year, we can pick 12 things out this year and then do the research for the next whatever number we have the following time.

So one thing I have on here is kind of like a yard sign. I'm saying like a

Sign like student of the month, like yard of the month, you know, historic property of the quarter. So something like that, I would just want you all to approve it, which you could just email approve it. And my point of view, you know, I don't know your recommendation, but if you're talking about lasting legacy, so like a sign, you would just want it to look good. Or we don't even have to have a sign.

As far as aesthetics are concerned. I know when people do yard signs, they're typically the plastic, you know, with the stakes on the side. If the sign itself could still be that, but it was in a nice metal, you know, a little bit.

Like a realtor sign almost.

Yeah, just better than the, you know, than the H-shaped little metal pieces. Do you know what I'm talking about?

Yes. Like the political science.

Yes, yes. You know, not that, but have something that, like I said, had a little bit of style to it.

Okay, since you mentioned that, then what about that sign that you were talking about that represented the city?

Oh, okay. Yes, I have to go back and look. Walk all over town and find out where they are.

But one of those, that's part of the historical sign. Yes, it is. It's part of the winder. And having that logo would be the perfect example of... History. Yes.

Okay, so if you want to find the sign that you like and send that... That's your homework.

The ones I'm talking about are either on the side of a building or they're in the sidewalk somewhere.

Because I was thinking, I think what I was saying was just kind of like the political signs that you just get. They're about $20 each and you just put them in the grass.

Yeah.

But if you want something nicer.

I don't know where to look, but I just, it's just about, but.

Maybe you could give us an option or two on the kind of sign, something nice but cost-efficient. It doesn't need to be big.

We don't need to have like so-and-so just graduated that.

Like a just-listed, a nice realtor sign. That's what I'm thinking. There you go. We can work on that.

So it would be a sign, and then we'd have a sign, and then we'd have the social media.

Yeah, so what I've got is a webpage, like maybe a single page, and it would be like highlight, and we could have a picture and information that you guys look up, a yard sign. The social media post, we would take photos. You know, if it was a homeowner, the homeowner's worth of sign, possibly council recognition. And so what I would need from you is just to approve the look of the sign, the look of the branding, because you would want it to look the same for all the recognitions.

Okay.

Would you guys know when you would potentially want to start this, or you would just have to get back to me on that?

Okay. Does everybody, we talked earlier this year about coming up with a list or having sort of an internal, you know, recommendation. Do we want to agree to the next meeting everybody have like somebody that they'd like to recommend?

I suggest that we, at our next meeting, that we sit down and we go over that after we go through our agenda or we have a special meeting for that in particular. All right.

I would recommend that when you make your nomination or whatever, just kind of have a reasoning why. And then that way, like, I'm recommending this house because, you know, it's a good example of preservation or, you know, they recently did renovation or this is a good example of preservation and economic development, whatever it is. And that way everybody can kind of digest the reasoning.

And if everybody brought two, you would have a whole year's worth.

That's true. Okay. Everybody bring two then. Okay. No pressure on the sign, by the way. Well, it looks nice at the end of it.

Okay, so everybody's going to bring two recommendations for the next meeting.

And are we doing only residential or residential? No. It could be residential or commercial, yeah.

Any building that has been at least, what, 50, 60 years? Okay. Okay.

Well, since we're going to have to come up with the historical information, I think we need to decide on the building, which one, and then we might need like another month to do the research in that building.

But it's 75 years for the historic. 50. It's 50? It's 50.

So possibly if you bring all of your ideas to next month's meeting, October, November kind of launch is what we're thinking. Yes. Okay. Yeah.

You know what, if we get this thing, we've got to gather the information, if that might be a good idea to start off in the first of the year, maybe.

Trying to give us some room.

We have everybody, we're going to have research done, so we're going to get these projects as we come up with these things. Get our research done, and then we will have enough under our belts, at least know, with working with our, knowing what we're going to be doing and how to do it. Shoot for at least by the first of the year or December, because December is only, what, three months away?

I think rather than trying to research everything, all of our ideas at once.

But if we decide on a particular one.

Yeah, we'd probably need another month or somebody to pull together the information.

Okay.

So I'd say nominate next meeting and then the meeting after that. We'll have a month to kind of gather that, but we don't have to prove that historical information. We can just gather it and shoot it over.

Oh, I already have my gift.

And I would say, if we're going to start this off, maybe start with a really beloved building that everybody loves. Start with your rock star to start the campaign really strong. That's my recommendation.

One of the things I think it brings the attention to the fact that some people would not realize that we have that level of history right here in town. or that there are entities that have a history. Some of it's going to be longer than 50 years. Some of it's going to be 75 or longer. And I think they don't know that until we acknowledge it.

Yep. No, I agree. So everybody's got their assignment. Got to bring two nominations. And then we'll figure out which one we want to get the robust research on, and then we can get it to the city hopefully by the end of the year. Thank you. Thank you for coming. Thank you. Yep. Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay. With that, that was the last item on our agenda. With that, I'll take a motion to adjourn the meeting.

I make a motion to adjourn.

Motion to adjourn.

Seconded.

Seconded. Okay. Okay. There we go. It's passed. Thank you, everybody, for attending the meeting.