Planning and Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

Go live here. One more minute. [Music] 7 o'clock.

Good evening. It's 7 o'clock. It's Tonight is the September 22nd, 2025 meeting of the West Planning and Zoning Commission. We'll have roll call right now. Starting on the left, Scott Eisenla, John Cooney, Peter Barshan, Plat Chairman, Adam, Charlene Lavoy. Okay, we have a full board tonight. So, we won't sit any alternates. Anybody want anything on the agenda review?

Mr. Chairman, one item. We would like to have a discussion about cottage food licenses and and uh farm carts on the side of the road. If we could add that under new business as 6B. Okay. Any public comment? Anybody have anything to say other than what's on the agenda? Do we need to make a motion to amend the agenda? Uh chairman can do it himself, but if you want to do a motion, that's fine. Okay, let's make a motion to uh change the agenda and add the cottage food under uh 6B. 6B. Second. All in favor?

Unanimous. So now we have public hearing. We're going to continue it. This is a continuation of the previous meeting for PZ-25-15. Applicant Scott Davis, location 142 Main Street. proposed a special permit to construct two residential units on the first floor of a former commercial space and two residential units on the second floor for a total of four residential units. And how are you tonight? Tired. Tired.

Just hit the the mic button on where it's red. Yep. So it turns green. Yep. Thank you. I have three invoices if you want to see part of the stuff that's done. Sure. We'll need to keep those for the record. No, these are for you. Okay. Very good. No. Yeah, he told me that. Okay. That's for the dumpsters that have been using it. So, that goes tomorrow. They're going to pick it up tomorrow. Okay. That was for the gutters. He wasn't going to do it till later October. So that's why we're doing ourselves. But you can see the crazy.

Yeah. So you're doing the fence now yourself? Yeah. I got a picture of it. Some of it's up already. Oh yeah. That's the last thing we got to do. I was down there this afternoon. I didn't see the fence. I saw the post. No, we just No, we just put them up now. That's where I came from. Oh, okay. Yeah. I mean, if you I got a I took a photo. Well, you you went by saw it with with the Yeah, I saw you out there working posted this afternoon. No, I mean we we did the the new part already. So, we're going to work on the other part tomorrow. And what's the plan for the car? It goes tomorrow. Okay. Cuz yeah, I can't get it out with the dumpster. Yeah. No, they know that it's taking it out tomorrow with the dumpster. What's that?

The dumpster goes in the afternoon and it's the car is following. All right. And uh you're going to put a new enclosure around your trash container there. Yes. And it's going to be all four sides. Yes. Okay. And you're going to leave it in that spot or you going to move it somewhere? I'm going to leave it right there. That's leaving it right there. Okay. Yeah, because they come every Friday. So, all right. And you do know that the requirements for the fencing,

you've gotten that from the board from land use. Okay. I I got to talk to the people picking it up too because they have certain, you know what I mean? They if it's not done to their specifications, they won't, you know what I mean? They have a hard time. They need a certain width. Yeah. Exactly. To get their dumpster in. It's got to have a swinging gate on it. Yeah. Okay. Uh let's see. What else was it we were looking at? I got this. Oh, you got most of the stuff removed from the front. I saw all the Yeah. All the stuff is That's what Jeff thought.

The rain gutters are done. All the tools, everything's out of there. The vehicles are going to be dead. All I cut the trees. Sign posts are down from the old sign. I notic that. What's that? The upright post for the old sign are gone. Yeah. In the awning is gone. Yeah. But I trimmed the trees. I cut down. There was a dead one there. I cut that now. So, and all that stuff's done. I saw that somebody was like tearing up the patio area or something. I thought I saw people doing something on that one day when I went by. Or was that No, there's nothing on the taking the fence down. Oh. Oh, you mean Oh, you mean the old fence? No, that was a while back. That's like like where the pad there was a patio there

when the rest when was the restaurant, right? Was that hard surface or was that soft? That's all brick in there. Okay. So, that's still it. I think the patio was in good is in good shape. Oh, yeah. No, that's a nice area. I think I mean, you might be referred to by got tore up on the south side of the garage. Okay. Maybe that's what I saw. Oh. Oh, yeah. No. Yeah, we jackhammered the whole thing and then we put down um top soil. Then we covered it with straw. I mean, we want to put this grass seed down and cover it with straw. Yeah, that's all set. And there's not going to be any parking allowed on that. No, no, they can't park on that.

You're going to park put something there to stop them from parking? Like a bumper or something? Well, no. I mean, there's the six places out front. That's where they So, nobody I've seen a vehicle around the side a lot when I've gone by. So, all right. So, yeah. I mean, no, there's Yeah, there's six out front. There's no Yeah, no one's going back there. Okay. They have plenty of places because I think there's only But it's one, two. I mean, two of them don't even have vehicles. There's only Yeah, there's only two vehicles. Okay. One guy a truck upstairs and a guy has a truck downstairs. That's it. Yeah. The other two don't even have vehicles.

Well, we're going to have some Well, there was a future tenants. No, that's what I'm saying. But but then we have the six spaces already marked out. Okay. Right. And you you looked at that today, Adam? Yeah, I drove by and looked at it. Um, as far as as far as it So, the dumpster enclosure is going to be back where it was up on the the upper parking lot in the center. Yes, that's the best place for it. Yes, that's where they wanted too. That where it is now? Yes. Yeah, that's where it is now. That's where they asked for, you know, the people that are dumping it. They said that was the best place for it also. Okay. And with four sides, it probably won't be as it'll look. It'll look better with four sides on it.

Well, it has to have to be something. I was looking at that like where is the best place for this dumpster? Probably not right next to your neighbor. Um to to avoid putting it right center, you know, dead center in that parking area. But, uh we're okay with that. I don't object. Um I also offer possibly where parking spot one is. It is like two and a half times deep for a car. Maybe the dumpster could go in the front there, but then it's right next to the house and really wary of odors for the residents. So, I have no problems with the position of the dumpster. I just want to provide my comment on that.

Um, for parking spaces there, there's six on the site plan. I thought our regulations require uh one and a half per a unit. So, you have four units that makes six and an additional quarter for for gas per unit. So, you need to In a site plan, you need to at least have seven parking spots right now. Unless No, if I can, a town center zone actually there's a call out that there's no off- streetet parking required in the town center zone. Okay. So, this is exempt from that as a result of that. Yeah, there's no nothing in the center. No requirement. They already told me that you needed six.

Appreciate that as well and providing green space for residents. Um I did that fence looks good, too. Um, I saw for concrete it for for footing steel around those posts. Um, I noticed a uh it's a dead ash tree. It is quite large trunk but is mostly on Yeah, it's on his property next door on adjacent property. It is leaning your way. No, I know. That's why we trimmed all the top off. I mean, I could have said something to him, but we paid for it. Trimmed it.

Actually, I pulled into his parking area, asked him if he wouldn't mind if I parked there. take a look at, you know, from the lot from his side. And he spoke to me and he was asking, it almost seemed like he was open to figure out who owns the property and then decide what you guys can do with the tree together. I'm not sure if we can help facilitate that, but it's not contingent. You know, this this permanently not contingent on that. Um, but if that tree does fall, I believe it's going to land towards your No, I don't I'm supposed to warn him about that, right? Right. No, I talked to him about it. I go, it's basically about 3/4 on your side and one quarter on my side. Yeah, that's where a little friendly neighbor conversation comes up.

Oh, no. I mean, we've been talking to them. They see us out there every day. So, that'll probably land on the patio if so hopefully you guys can work that out. And I think uh lastly a site plan and we want to have the details these changes on the site plan. I don't mean to to wrap things up. If anyone else wants to talk, we can require the site plan. I think that's draft motion there. I think that

I'm just going to show the the additional fencing, right? That's what you need on the revised site plan. U the original site plan had I got it here. What's up, Willie? On the on the Yeah. Did it show asphalt over on the side? Yes. Yeah. So, you now have removed that asphalt. So, that uh to show the changes. So, to show the changes. Yeah. If you want, what I can do is go through the draft motion that we put together. Yeah. Uh the conditions specifically, I can read those out to you if that's helpful or, you know,

Okay. Um, let's see if everybody else has any more questions. I have just a few comments. Anybody else have questions? I was going to ask about the second point. I thought at the last meeting the last meeting before the last meeting. Did you have something?

Yeah, I was just looking for my notes. Um, I believe we had some comments at the last meeting about this being a change to residential in the downtown, you know, downtown area where we really do want to keep it commercial. So, I just wanted to kind of address that for the record and, you know, generally I would completely agree with the comments that were made. I do think it's very important that we keep ground level um, spaces open for commercial and really encourage residential on the second and third floor. um that really adds to the vibrancy of Main Streets and downtowns. In this case, um the building is set further back from Main Street. It is a very residential historic building. I think it would need uh quite a bit of change to the facade even and the character of it to become commercial unless it became an Airbnb or something like that. But um but and even in that case that would be residential and could easily still be used that their demand was there. I did really take some time and look at the neighborhood. There are other houses right in that block that are residential houses. So it's not out of character. Um and I do think that it would be in my opinion appropriate to change this to residential fully residential. Um but I I don't think this is you know normal and not something that we would really want to encourage. Main Street, but because of the factors, the situation, the pre previous uses, the way it's situated, the block of Main Street that it's in, um I think, you know, taking all that into consideration, I I think this would be, in my opinion, an appropriate change.

I wanted to document that for for the record. Yeah. Um and also um the changes we're making won't preclude it being converted back to commercial. So and also the history of that as a commercial building will remain there and so like the economics change um and you know you get commercial space back in there and revive what it was once was. I think it can still be still.

Scott, anything? I'm good. I'm good. So, just one quick question. We are allowed to go forward without the updated site plan. We're going to require the site plan to be submitted as part of the Is that what you were saying earlier? I'm sorry. No, I'm suffering from allergies. I can't hear that great right now. That that's all right. And uh that was all I had. And that's in that's in you. It is. Yeah. And whenever you're ready for it, I can read you the existing. Well, now Jeff had a whole list of white white things. Yep. They all been taken care of. They're he took pictures.

Yeah, they're being worked on. We do have some updated photographs, but I want to warn you that you can't condition your approval on the blight violation. Those are two separate issues. So, the owner has been working with Jeff and getting the site up, you know, up to up to date here. Everything's gone.

Yeah. Okay. And that's I I did talk to Jeff today and he's he's pretty satisfied on where you are at this point. So, um with the site plan conditions and the piece, you know, the fence and the removal of the asphalt and, you know, those types of things, you can condition it all you want, but you can't condition it based on based on the the violation that's out there. And all the u was there any hoods for the stoves or anything that were in the building? Are they all gone? Yes. Okay, they're all gone.

Okay, cool. So, if nobody else has any questions, I guess we can close the public hearing. I'll make a motion to close. I'll make motion close public hearing PC25-15. Before Before you do that, and I'm sorry to interrupt you, but before you do that, what I'd like to do is make sure that you all are on the same page with any conditions of approval because you got to do that during the public hearing. Okay? And then and then, you know, sort of make sure that the applicant is on board and then condition it once the hearing is closed during your during your motion. So, I draw my motion.

Okay? So, the the things that we wanted to capture and again, I just want to make sure that we've got this right. Um, prior to the issuance of building permit, the applicant shall submit a revised site plan to be reviewed and approved by town staff, which includes the following changes. If the dumpsters to remain, the applicant shall submit a detail of a dumpster enclosure compliant with section 41534 of the Winchester zoning regulations in a revised location to be reviewed and approved by town staff. Sounds like the location is everybody's content with the existing location. So, we're not going to we're not going to change that at all. Right. If that's where the it's traditionally been picked up and that's what they recommended, I think we're good with that. Okay. So, we'll take that out. Well, it was more about the enclosure,

right? More about the enclosure, making sure it's got a it's high enough. It's uniform, not piece mailed up by and approved by town staff. Yep. So, so this includes he needs to submit a detail to Jeff for for review and then once it's once it's approved, it goes on that final site plan that gets submitted. Um, can I ask a question before is this prior to the issuance of a building permit at the last meeting? They've talked about the building department and the fire department have already done all their inspections and look through when he's done all worked for to be compliant. So, certificate of occupancy then that's what I thought. Yeah, I think certificate of occupy I'm not good with that.

I mean, he needs permits to do the dumpster enclosure, the fence, and things like that. So, he would need building permits to do that stuff. So, I think it would be a certificate of occupancy.

Okay. Okay. See, that's why we're doing this now while the hearing is still open. Um, applicant shall remove the existing fence around the patio on the east side of the property, replace it with a new fence starting at the southeast corner of the building, continuing easterly to the property line, then turning northerly and running to the northeast corner of the property, then turning westerly to meet the northeast corner of the garage. So, let me show you visually what we mean by that. This fence around the patio comes down, which I know it already has. New fence in its place along this section over to the property line running north along the line and then coming back around to the garage. Okay, cool. Are we all everybody on board with that? Is that what we're doing? Yeah. Okay.

Well, just the top part. I mean, it's right up against the other fence there. Okay. I don't I don't know about like coming across doesn't make any sense. Yeah, because there's a wall there. Yeah, there's a wall there next to the garage wall and there's a Yeah, their fence. I mean, sense. All right, great. So, so it's just to the corner. Yeah, going back to the property corner. All right.

Uh asphalt area to the east of the garage should be removed and reclaimed as lawn for passive recreation in accordance with 41547E. So again, visually we're talking about this area and it sounds like you've taken this out already and I took it out, removed that. Yep. Okay. So that's we're playing catchup to some extent. A lot of the stuff got done over the weekend, which is great, but we're going to keep it in there as a condition anyway. Boy, you were busy. Oh, yeah. Two weeks. A lot better. Yeah. And then uh prior to the issuance of a co all vestigages of prior commercial uses shall be removed from the property including but not limited to the signposts in the south main street facing law and barber pole at the rear of the building awning and frame over the entry steps. It sounds like it's already gone. Those are gone.

Okay. All right. Any other conditions that you all feel are necessary? And the gutter the gutter thing and those issues were those are all blight issues. Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. So now we were looking at uh building permits and all being inspected and everything. Fire marshall's been there. Fire marshall's been there. Was he was there at a as fire marshall? Was he there as housing inspector?

Looks like both. And I'll pull his letter up on the screen for you. Um, April 22nd, he inspected 142 Main for a 4-unit apartment building for annual fire code inspection, found several violations. May 27th, he reinspected, violations were repaired um and it met the minimum requirements of the state fire safety prevention codes. And then on August 8th, he says that it met the he was there for the bannual housing inspection per Winchester property maintenance code. At the time of inspection, there were no violations. So that's just a hair a little over a month ago. We're in good shape there. Okay. So, if everybody's good with those conditions, now you can make your motion.

PCC 25-15. I'll second public hear. All in favor? I Okay. So, now we will go and under old business, we will take up PZ-25-15. Applicant Scott Davis. Location 142 Main Street. Special permit to construct two residential units on the first floor and a formal commercial space and two residential units on the second floor and a total four residential units. I'll make that motion. I'll second. All in favor? Read that. Right. Can't make any approval to your reader draft

with the conditions. And do you want to read the modified conditions? They're all here on Well, we just made some changes to them.

All right. To approve applicant 25-15, special permit. Applicant owner Scott Davis, address 142 Main Street, proposal, special permit to construct two residential units on the first floor and a formal commercial space and two residential units on the second floor for a total of four residential units. In evaluating the planning and zoning commission as relied upon information provided by the applicant and in such information subsequently proves to be false, deceptive or incomplete or inaccurate is permission to be modified, suspended or revoked. This applicant application is consistent with the town's planning plan of conservation development. The application meets the criteria and standards for section 415-24D special permits special exceptions with the following conditions. Prior to issuance of the certificate of occupancy, the applicant shall submit a revised site plan to be viewed and approved by town staff which includes the following changes. If the dumpster if the dumpsters remain, the applicant shall submit a detailed the dumpster enclosure compliant with section 415-34, the Winchester zoning regulations. The applicant shall remove the existing fence around the patio on the east side of the property and replace it with a new fence starting at the southeast corner of the building, continuing easterly to the property line, then turning northly and running to the northeast corner of the property. The asphalt area in the east of the garage shall be removed and reclaimed as lawn for passive recreation in accordance with section 415-47. The prior to the issuance of the certificate occupies, all vest vestages of prior commercial use shall be removed from the property, including but not limited to the signpost in the south main street facing lawn,

barber pool at the rear of the building and awning frame over the front steps. And I think that is it. So all in favor, there's no page page two there. There is a Yeah, it's just the It's just the signature. So, what what I'd like what I'd ask you to do is just do a roll call vote if you wouldn't mind, please because we can't sign the original. Because we can't sign the original. Yes. So, if you want to just start with Adam and Sure. Adam Felli, I approve. Robert Plat chairman, I approve. Marshian, vice chairman, I approve. John Kuni, I approve. Mr. Manka, I approve.

Perfect. Thank you. It's a long road, but we got there. So, what what does it mean now? It's approved. Oh, okay. So, I can go I can buy the zoning approvals. Yeah. What's that? Talk to Jeff. You need a site plan. Yeah. Showing the changes where the uh asphalt was removed. Yeah. And the new fence. Finish your fence. Get Jeff to approve that. And you got to get come in with the what you're going to do for the dumpster enclosure to get that approved by Jeff.

Get that approved and then once everything is approve is approved and run by Jeff then he'll sign sign off and then we'll be good. So I I just wanted to know I can tell the buyer that he can start going ahead with his um I the office. Well, no. Put it this way. Like if the appraiser goes down to town records, it it will not be shown a for family yet. Then will be showing what? It will it be approved for a for family if he goes down to town records? It'll take a day or two before it gets on the town records. I mean, from from today, you mean? Yeah. Okay. So, that's what I want to know. Wait till next week.

I mean, that's plenty of time because he's got to But I can tell him to start with the bank. Will it get on the town? Well, it's going to take a little bit more time than that. The office has to issue the approval letter. Then you have to take and file the special permit and then once that special permit's filed, then that information will get transferred over to the assessor's office and then the records will get updated. So, it takes a little bit of time. The office will reach out to you. If not tomorrow, within the next couple days, we'll give you all those instructions on Oh, that's what I mean. Will you have to get the survey updated? Yeah, I was going to say, will that happen to the site plan? The survey needs to get done before the certificate of occupancy,

right? So the approval goes out with the conditions on it. Then when you're all done and you're ready to get your CO, then we need that updated site plan. So that's why the office will be in touch with you on next steps. All right. All right. So on the site plan, he's just got to show the fence and the asphalt removed and the dumpster. And the dumpster. And the dumpster. Enclosure. Yep. Okay. I'll tell him. Should the site plan show what he's going to do for the enclosure? Yes. Yeah. should have the detail of what the enclosure is. So, it's just going to be a gate. That's fine. But, you know, it's got to be all four sides. All four sides. Whatever kind of fence you're using and whatever kind of there now really doesn't match. Oh, okay.

It's one fence on the bottom with another fence on top. So, it should be a matching thing all the way around. Okay. Oh, I see what you're saying. Okay. Very good. Thank you very much.

Okay. Okay. Interestingly, doing everything electronically today. Under new business, CGS 848-24, review, location 52 White Street, proposed sale of town owned property. So, town manager referred this over to you all. I think last week he sent a letter. Um, this is property that

town owns on the corner of Nanny Drive and White Street and it's uh you don't have a copy of my staff report, but there's uh there's two parcels. Oh, good for you. There's there's actually it looks like three on the map. It's two parcels side by side uh that were taken in foreclosure. I don't remember exactly when. Maybe about 10 years ago or so. Maybe more than that. Yeah, it's been a while. Was there a structure on there? There was. So, uh, at least as as as early I guess the the most recent aerial that I can see a house at number 52 was 1970. What happened after that, you know, you those of you with history in the town would know better than I Yeah, it's completely over.

Yeah, it's gone. And the foundation's still there. It's an old stone. It's an old field stone foundation. That's about all that's left. But 1970, the house is there. By the time the 86 aerial comes along, it's gone.

Uh, it's two parcels. the the southerntherly one has the street address of 52 White Street. The northerly one is actually biseected by Nanny Drive. Um in in its I you know the town has been approached by someone who's maybe interested in the in the property um and as part of a sale as you all know you've been through this a million times. uh the town has to go through you to to sell any property to get a review under 824 and then it'll get listed on the MLS and they'll take any offers they get and and board of selectment will do what they need to do. Um so for your purposes we needed to review the sale in in you know for consistency with the plan of conservation and development and I I'll pull up the site uh my staff report in a minute where I talk about a couple of sections of your POCD that I think are pertinent. Um

and what's the zone there? The zone here is top single family I believe. I think that's right. Yeah. Um it's all lot nanny drive area is top single family. Are those have those lots been joined at all? There's two still two separate lots. So they've not been joined. Um there it looks like I was going to say the three lots but I mean yeah it's it's on the deeds. It's it's that northerly one like I said is one lot. It has an easement running through for Danny Drive. Okay.

You know it'll be the buyer's responsibility to clean up any title issues. There are some title issues there. um to survey the property to join the properties into one. So, this will all get worked out as part of a purchase and sales agreement with between the town and potential buyer. And I suspect a potential buyer is not going to want that skinny little strip that's north of Nanny Drive. So, that'll probably get merged into the Nanny Drive uh right away or just left as is. I mean, that's to some extent that that'll be worked up. You said that might be used for uh for the town to access some drains in there. Yeah. So there's there's a there's a pretty large drainage swell that runs down through these parcels. It actually starts up here on Wall Street and then runs runs actually if I turn on the basement.

Starts with that vacant lot that the big long thin lot that the town owns on Wallen on Wallen Street where the drainage starts. That's right. And and you can kind of see it in the aerial. It runs right down through here and through that 52 White Street parcel. Again, as part of a sales agreement, the town is going to require some kind of an easement there. So, a potential purchaser will have to grant the town an easement in Did we already have one? There's no easement on file there. Okay. So, that we've seen that thing was just there that called vert. The town owns it. Yeah. Oh, the town owns it, right? It took it. The town owns it. They don't need Right. Right. No, they took it years ago. Well, I mean, they took it by foreclosure, right? Yeah. But was the drainage there before the town took it? Yeah.

Most likely. I mean, you know, and I think it's it's it's probably I mean, it's hard to tell because there's been so much construction and this whole area is developed, but you know, it there's probably some historical natural feature there. You know, there's probably always some kind of water flow through that, especially the way that gully is carved out. It's it's not entirely man-made. Uh it goes into a culvert underneath Nanny Drive and then winds its way down to the river at some point over here. So, you know, keeping that side of the street is probably a good thing for the town so that they've got access to the other side of that culvert. And then, of course, over here we'll need an easement for that. So, is that been separated out from this request? It's not at this time because it's all under one deed,

right? Um, and I think what I would suggest to you all is, uh, you know, if you, if you find it consistent with your POCD, uh, you know, we could put in there a recommendation that that portion north of Nanny Drive be retained by the town, that an easement be retained by the town surrounding the drainage ditch, um, and anything else that the that the commission feels is pertinent. I'll pull up I had some language in my report to use, so give me a moment and I'll pull that up on the screen. as we discussed. That's the parcel. That's about two and a half acres. If you if you take out that slice north of Annie Drive,

um where would the driveway be if that's going to be it would it would come off a White Street. Um because and it you know it looks It looks like a fair amount of property that's along Nanny Drive, but when you're down here in person, it's it's really not because that gully crosses right about here. So, there's really not enough room to come in between the intersection of White Street and that gully to get into the property. The old driveway, I think, for the old house was somewhere around where that property line is because if I'm remembering correctly, that stone foundation's right about in here. Looks like Oh, now now you did it. Looks like you might have a driveway right there. That might be right, Willie. Yep, that might be right.

Uh, so anyway, so yeah, you'd have a you'd have a a white street driveway there, you know, and there's a little bit of an embankment here along White Street, but there's also a little bit of an access in through this area where cyclists and ATV riders and whatever else have gotten into limit access. There's other ways to get

No, there's Yeah, there's a couple different places you could easily get a driveway in there. Uh, in terms of the POC, um, I took a look at a couple of things. You've got a couple of goals in there. Enhance the housing stock downtown and attract median and higher income households. It's on page 75. Uh, you know, selling this off and redeveloping it as a as as housing would, you know, sort of meets that goal. Um, especially if it's a single family, which I think is is what the goal would be. It would be very difficult to develop this property into anything more than one or maybe two lots considering the big drainage gully there. You'd have a really hard time getting anything else in there. Um, second goal, enhance the highdensity downtown neighborhoods. While this isn't downtown, it is on the edge of downtown. Again, adding additional housing stock, new housing stock, fresh housing stock, uh, works toward that goal. Uh those those are the two things that I picked out from the PZ that that I thought were in line with this. Um again, it was a residential piece for years until it was purchased, I think, as part of the development along Nanny Drive and then was lost in foreclosure to the town. So, it's it's not out of character for it to be developed for residential use over there.

So, you mentioned there early on that Nanny Drive has an easement going across that property. It's it's unclear. Okay. So, there's there's a right of way that runs through there and that's why it shows up and that's what I mean. There's some title issues that the that the future buyer will have to Going down that rabbit hole reading those titles and it's very very confusing,

right? You know, so I suspect that this northern portion was purchased for the purpose of running Nanny Drive through it and then how that all played out over the years and what those deeds look like. I'm not a deed expert and I'm not going to pretend to understand it, but there are some title issues that need to be straightened out. And so, you know, in doing that, we'll make sure that Nanny Drive, the right of way for that is preserved. Um, and whatever needs to happen with the parcel on either side of it will will get straightened out.

So, can we recommend the sale of this property looking listing it? The town keeping the northerly piece selling the two and a half acres together. Yep. And preserving the easements. Yep. Well, at this time, are they only interested in 52, the southern property, or are they asking for both those properties? So, the town would be listing them at the same time. Yeah.

And and I mean, really with with the way this it doesn't show it here. I mean, I guess I could turn on I think they're 10 foot contours. It really doesn't do it justice. Th this parcel here, this one that's on the corner at Andy Drive is really probably unbuildable. Um the gully is wide at that point. It's got, you know, it's got the culvert ends in it. Access in it gets really steep on this interior portion. You know, could it be built on? Maybe. Um but really the you know 52 White Street is the parcel that it is going to be that's the developable portion aside from the commercial building to the to the north. Are there adjoining properties residential. They're all res and have structures. Yes.

Yeah. That's a that's a home across the street. I'm not sure if it's single family or or multi. Um and all of these are residential. And that's the residential. Yeah, it's all residential. Except for the northerly piece with child, right? Yeah. So, I'm I can I can make a motion if you want. Can I just ask question? So, how are they going to be listed? Like you said, the northern one more than likely couldn't be built on. How would they list something like that for sale? You know, I'm gonna let the board of selectmen and whoever they work with for listing it figure that out. That's not my problem. But, you know, I I think I'm I'm a realtor, so that's why I'm asking that question. If I'm looking at that listing before they even do it, they can join it. The town can

the town can join it or they'll list them as, you know, for sale together to be sold as they're all on one deed right now. If you read that foreclosure deed, and I think I included that with the staff report, it's it's all one foreclosure deed. So, in some ways, they're already linked. I mean, you could unlink them because they have two separate parcel numbers. It's you know, and because of the road, you can't the assessor subdivide Yeah. the property. Yeah. Yeah. So, I I think I think the way that'll ultimately get listed is that they're for sale together and that the town will entertain offers for the purchase of both of them. And then like I said any purchase sales agreement is going to have you know

so um for the lower portion it would be grandfathered in that that's a buildable lot this this larger piece you mean to the south the larger piece yeah the lower it's it meets all of the zoning criteria to be constructed in that zone. So it it's not even a grandfathering situation. It's it's a buildable loter for big enough wide enough single family zone. I mean that's way and and the waterway wouldn't affect that. The No, there'd be some wetlands permits most likely towards the rear of that right development. Whatever gets built back there, you know, somebody going in for a house is probably going to end up needing a wetland permit because of the proximity, but that's about it.

It's actually relatively level. This this sort of front triangular piece. I mean, there's a little bit of an incline here. I I walked it last week. Um it's it's relatively label and and gent level and gentle grades heading north until you get to the gully and then drops off like a rock and then the other side's real steep coming back up. So if we were to approve this, I'd like to I feel we need to identify exactly what we're talking about. So that drawing that you had sent out in in the email that had those two lots colored in. Yeah. I think we should include something like that with our approval.

That right there. Okay. And then then spell out that the like you did in your narrative there that the opera piece be retained for t the town to service the drains. But that's everybody's I was thinking something a motion something along the lines of a favorable report 8-24 uh request uh as it's consistent with the plan of conservation with their recommendation that the town retain all necessary easements to protect the drainage um which may include um not selling the northern part of that northern north of Nanny Drive north of Nanny Drive because the other side.

Yeah. North basically. So, or something along those lines. It's identified one. Yeah. Okay. Right. Right. Right. Right. The small portion north and give the select the opportunity to do say what they want to say. Yeah. It's our recommendation that you probably need that for to protect the drainage, right? you know, and I think that was both of your conditions, right? Looking at your thing, they were both around the and and I think I don't have a copy of the plan of conservation development right on me. Do I hold

because I'm sure there's something in there about protecting [Music] Is that a stream or is that just a drainage ditch?

Like I said, I think it's a little of both. There was some water running through there when we were out there last week and it hasn't rained in I mean it hasn't really rained in two months. So I I think there's some level of it that's natural. Yeah, it's definitely not an intermittent stream. It's No, it's got water in it. It's a small trickle right now, but it's pretty constant. You're right. But but a lot of what it does is convey storm water from the wall and street all those neighborhoods behind there

and I just had it to put some pants on there. I'm just impressed you even had it. We need to get you all the laptop with the virtual version so you can just research. What are you thinking about?

So, so I just saw something in here to protect just that our recommendation isn't coming out of nowhere. Our recommendation is to make sure that we are protecting that drainage and that storm water from continue to address erosion sedimentation control measures. So, we want to make sure we have proper access and easements to do that and um you know identify and continue to identify natural resources and priority protection areas. Um, while this isn't necessarily a priority protection area, it is a natural resource that we want to make sure we we we we have access to to make sure for for drainage.

And what sections that you could just beef that up 6-5 page 6566 because you've already essentially starting that, but she's just right beefing it up. There's probably something in the in the POCD too that talks about town facilities and and um protecting and preserving town I know there's language about that and I think that applies too if we're you know preserving it keeping an easement so that we can get in there for maintenance purposes.

I just just to document the record we're not just making that recommendation because we think it's a good idea it would be part of the POC. So after you get all the I mean I think you're going to vote on it now, right? But and when you finalize that, send us We'll email. Yeah, I'll send you all the copy of it. You see any changes, we can. [Music]

So is that a motion? Yeah. Okay. What's the motion? What's the motion? I didn't know where you got the motion.

So the mo the motion that Rrista made was to send a recommendation to the board of selectment because it it's in line with your plan of conservation and development in the ways that we addressed earlier, but with a couple of recommendations that the town retain the the town retain any easements for drainage. uh any easements necessary for drainage including the portion north of Nanny Drive um and retain an easement for the entire and I'll word smith this a little bit more than I am right now but for the drainage swale that runs through the property to protect against erosion and sedimentation control issues uh because it's a natural resource that needs protection as per the PC uh and it's also a town facility and infrastructure that needs protection and preservation I think that has to be worded a positive review for the 824.

And don't you also have to say protect the easement for Nanny Drive specifically? Um, we can say something about that too. Good point. Is that an easement? I thought from what you said earlier, I don't I'm not sure. Okay. I think that's up to the legal. I think it's a right of way, but they do it again. That's true. the town will deal with that. We don't care if they I'll second that. Okay. All in favor?

Okay. So, when I get that put together probably Thursday, I'll email it to you and and uh go from there. Thanks. Okay. Number seven, other business. Did you need this? 6B. 6B. That's right. College.

Yeah. So, so we just wanted to have a really quick conversation with you regarding this. Uh, this is something that Jeff has dealt with, I think, a couple of times. Um, and I don't know the specific of uh what may have come up in the last day or so, but cottage food. You do? I've made him aware of uh believe it's 61 Birds All Street where people are selling flowers, vegetables, uh they're actually advertising u putting posters up different places. I think it's sugar and spice the name of it and they I sent it to Jeff because I knew nothing it's anyways it's in the middle of a residential area and just asked him you know we had seen nothing through planning and zoning is and is this allowed with and he said well they I think Shane or someone had been working with them that they did have a cottage industry license through the state but it doesn't meet any of our regulations whatever they're trying to do but I don't know nothing's been really explained net. He did send an email later today on it

with a photograph and stuff. Okay. So, so that's the backstory. So, cottage food, if you're not aware, um there was and I can't remember if that was public act 2129 or if it was more recent than that. I can't remember. And it looks like Rrista can't remember either.

Scott, do you remember? Anyway, uh there's a provision in statute and it's actually part of 82, which is the the um uh the the uh statute number that governs the construction of zoning regulations that you cannot prohibit cottage food uh industries from taking place in people's homes. And that's basically just a there's certain things you can and can't do under a cottage license, but you can bake bread and you can do, you know, make cookies and those types of things and sell them. And you have to sell them. Um, it's a point of sale. So, I can take them to your house and sell them. Or you can have people come to my house and I can sell them, but it's not a wholesale, right? I can't sell my goods to the Costco distributor and distribute them that way. So, it's a it's more of a point of sale uh transaction. And so, I think what's happening is we've got someone who has one of these licenses and has a stand out in front of their house and is selling them. So, somebody pulls up and grabs a loaf of bread and puts $5 in the box and heads home. Um, and I think the question is, do we want to put some kind of a provision in there? And I would say it's for cottage food. It's probably also for um, sort of home farms of people that maybe sell eggs or whatever uh, or vegetables in the summer or maybe cut flowers. You see that around? Um, do we want to have some kind of a provision to allow those when it's not associated with a home farming permit or a farm permit? because those two things uh I think allow those those uh street side sales, but there's acreage requirements with those two. I think I think farming is over five acres and I think home home farming is three or something like that. So the question is do we want to go down the path of creating some kind of regulation to allow people to sell their goods that they're producing at their home uh in the front yard? Okay. But if they can do it, they're already have a right to do it under state law and they're monitored and and inspected and so forth. I think what could we do?

Where where's So I think in this case we've got some kind of a stand, right, Pet or we've got some kind of a structure or rolling cart or something like that. I'm not sure what they're doing. I went up up all I didn't see anything. Okay. I think it's more back to the house. The house sits way quite a considerable ways back to the road from all the other houses. So there's something back there and it's being advertised that stuff was being displayed on a porch or something like that. Okay. What I could see.

So So I think the question then is do we do we want to do something to legitimize that a little bit so that I mean there's there's two ways you can go about it, right? You can legitimize it and say yes, you can have this permit and you've got to you know live within these parameters and and have regulations surrounding it. Or we make a phone call out to that homeowner and say, "Sorry, you can't do this. You can't advertise. You can't sell these things off your front porch. You need to be delivering them out to your buyers. You know, if somebody orders 24 cupcakes, you got to drive out there and deliver those cupcakes and and make it more of an order. So, under the state law, we could do that. I'm looking at it right now. You can't prohibit the cottage food license from being issued, but but you don't have a provision for this sort of enterprise to be advertised here.

Okay. So, so I live on Lovely Street. I drive by Prat Street every day. There's this house there that was all overgrown. The people have the best flower gardens and they have this little cart outside and they have, you know, flowers, a little donation bucket. I love it. I think it's so like it brightens up the place. It's so cute. It's, you know, and and so people are doing something like that, which is relatively they're not, you know, it's this little cart small. It's on their front, you know. At what point is that accessory use, right? Like a lemonade stand, you know? You know what? At what point do we just say,

and I know that it's probably not just accessory, I'm just saying, you know, at some point, some of these are great for neighborhoods to sell sell the the eggs, have a little refrigerator out there. I I mean, they're not So, they're growing them on their own property, then they're selling them. So, it's created on their own property, where the other one's not. It's like they buy the items, then they're selling them. I think tad sales are more invasive than what some of these people are doing. So if you look at Birdsville, look at Pratt Street because it's they have a very nice setup. I don't want you to give Pratt Street trouble. I'm not complaining. I'm not giving anybody trouble. It sounds like it's Peter giving people trouble. I know. No, I know.

And here's why. Because here here's a here's a poster nailed staple to a telephone pole on my street up by the lake. So Okay. So that's advertising that's on Sucker that's on Suckerbrook, you know. So that's what brought it to my attention. Otherwise, I would have had no idea. Yeah. So, that's different. That's extending beyond this. I think the So, I mean, if they're doing that sucker, where else are they doing this? Yeah. Because it says that there there needs to be some control. That's what I'm saying. There must be something plus their home and kitchen in the state that and their preparation area has to comply with local zoning laws. Right. So, you can have that's the thing. You can have local zoning laws around it. You just can't prohibit it entirely. Yeah.

But I think you could prohibit, you know, on-site sales if you wanted to. certainly advertise props. You can prohibit that whole email that got sent to me today and I previously sent to him. So, well, I guess you have to write something up for us. Oh my god. Isn't that just because there needs to be, you know, some control for signage something. Well, that's off off premise signage. Is that I think you probably have a regulation on that. Yeah. What is it today? What's that address? 60 61 61. It's on on the left side. I believe the house sits back quite a ways from the road. It's about the only house that sits back from the road there.

Well, you know, you go up uh Winchester Road and there's that nice spot not far from the uh the convent there where they're selling eggs and wood. Eggs and wood. But that's He's got a farm. I see. So, they're covered, right? So, they're covered automatically. Yes. You can't tell that. I mean, I just drive by and I didn't know. Well, the farm the farm is on Rug Brook Road, but it's not not that piece of property, but that's also about 5 acres on property. Okay. You know, and I think that's where you get into you have this little bit of a you've got this little bit of an area that that maybe we need to think about a little bit, right? So, you've got

you've got people that have cottage food licenses out there. You've got uh you allow up to I think you allow up to 20 chickens on small parcels that don't have that home farming permit, and they might want to sell their eggs out in front. And so, so, so they may not have that home farm permit which allows these things, but they might have some other provision that's allowing them to do it, but you know, nobody needs 20 eggs a day, right? They're doing something with those eggs. So, so do we want to craft some kind of regulation that says here are the things that you can do, you've got to fit within this box or I think it should be something that at least comes in and reviewed by staff,

you know, not necessarily coming before us with the formal request, but should be something that should come in to the staffing here. So maybe we just add under the home occupation section, the cottage a cottage kitchen section that requires a zoning permit. And we have um a section under home occupation that says except for fruit and vegetables grown on premise, no display shall be visible from the street. And so maybe we use something along the lines, you know, except for the cottage industry that's been grown or produced or clean sales should be you know, limited to a small

I'm not looking to stifle business, but it is like a that's so just under like a cottage kitchen very basic zoning permit. Okay. What about uh farm stands? Well, those are regulated under farms, right? under farm stands. You have to have a farm down 88. So I know there there used to be a a farm stand or at least a pulloff on old going up it on the right. Oh yeah. Yeah. The carbones. Yeah. Yeah. They're they're done. They're done. Yeah. And that was operating out just it was kind of a

under the radar. They had the state permit to use the property. the state was taking it away from them and there was an outcry in the town for the board of selectmen and the board of selectman wrote a letter to support them. Yeah. So, but they're done now because they have a permit for a state at least it took for a couple more years. They'll probably there'll never be another one there that they stop. Before I came here, I operated three farm stands in my old town. Um and there were mobile cart large mobile carts that we pull off each morning in Palafia every night and the community loved it. But you had a farm

and um I did not grow everything on site. I I bought resold some stuff and now my aunt and uncle continue on with it and they they buy and resell most of it. They don't have the capacity to grow everything. Um but the community loves this stuff. I think where the pointing contention exists is where we start utilizing town resources whether it be the the um polls for advertisement or the right away, you know, for a placement. And I think where we have we should have a concern is, you know, whether there's enough parking or pulloff area for a car so not to create a a safety risk,

um lighting and signage, advertisement, um hours of operation. It was uh hopefully you know something like this become popular but I think I think we should regulate and also provide for for safe yes if it's did you have regulations where was that in windlocks did did were you aware that I'll take a peek again see in other words we don't have to reinvent the wheel if there's oh we don't have to reinvent the wheel there's plenty of stuff out there for us to take I'm sure we're trying to gauge your interest in what we want to do here I I think we have some of it in the farm stand regulation already. You know, I think we'd want to change it a little bit because the farm stand on

good regulations are. Yeah. Farm stand on a farm allows for much bigger thing than what we're talking about. Limits it to 200 square feet. Yeah. And it has to be from a so far from a street line. It has to have at least one parking space, you know, like I think it does have some of that. That's Yeah, that's all in there. But this is different because it's just somebody's home. Yeah. Doesn't have to be associated with a farm, right? Yeah, but the language is there. The language that we can just, you know, you know, modify a little bit to put under the cottage kitchen regulations. And

so I wonder if it's worth so your your your farm regulation I think allows for right the the permanent farm stands. What I think you don't have is sort of a seasonal or a temporary farm stand provision or these and I I'll call it farm carton. I think you probably find that in some places in some regulations. You don't have anything like that for these smaller vendors like the person that's selling their flowers when they come out in July and August or somebody who's doing eggs. And so maybe we draft up may maybe Jeff and I can go back to the drawing board a little bit. We'll draft up something for you know inh home occupation related to cottage food and then maybe we also take a look at some kind of a farm cart and we'll bring you something to to review in a month or so. So the reason was to say if they have the property they bring in Christmas trees it's all

well that's that's right it's you know right you get tricky with it gets tricky with seasonal because you know again if it's if you're if you've got eggs that's there's some seasonality to that but you're going to get eggs all year long but I think the difference is when you talk about a farm cart you're talking about something that's small in nature you bring in Christmas trees you're talking about much bigger size you know so that would that would fall have to fall into the farm stand or the other sure retail You could define it as strictly vegetables, vegetables and flowers, right? Pro, you know, right? The state allows food, but this is for the So that'll go under the home occupation, right? Look at

So because the cottage food thing exists, we can regulate that, but we can't deny it. Correct. You can't prohibit it. can't prohibit, but we could put regulations in and then so like the flowers on Pratt Street. Very nice place. I mean, it's amazing. You go by there. It is. And I haven't been by in a while. I went by and I looked and said, "Oh my gosh, look what she's done now. It's like the whole property." Uh, does she advertise throughout town? I think so.

So, what's I mean, I'm I'm curious about that. The the I didn't see anything in the state thing directing about that, but that seems to be the primary concern here, but no business can do that. So, I mean, Jeff should go up and just take those signs down, right? Yeah. You don't have No business can have offsite signs. Well, I didn't say they could do it. Yeah. But, um a little stand there with and a little sign at the stand, but no big signs. Yeah. Nothing. No, nothing elsewhere in town. It's almost like you have to know if she or see the sign and go buy that. She's selling them. But also probably not allowed, you know, by by strict reading and she said they're just for donations or just out there take one leaf donation.

But it's that kind of thing that we we probably want to allow so that you know he wants to be over, right? Yeah. Yeah. So like this other one that's selling vegetables and stuff, they are bringing that in and then that can m once people know about that then it can blow up to be like North Main Street was constant cars going up that street trying to figure it out

but if she grew the stuff on her property and so limited amounts then it would be different in my mind uh I kind of do miss a big farm stand in town because you go by root day and you think about, oh geez, just pulled in there got some you got the corn and cucumbers and tomatoes all the time, but now it's not there and it it is missed by the community and it supports local Yeah. other local businesses. And I think part of the cottage I I think part of the cottage kitchen is that it would have to be made or grown there or made there, right?

Made there. Um, I think otherwise you get into more of a home office occupation and now you have to come in for special exception and you know if you're having more detail doesn't look like the stuff is grown there.

Yeah. And you know the cottage industry and I have to go through and read what that statute says because there's some provisions in there but you know it doesn't it's it's owner or it's occupied it's owned by the occupant of the structure, right? It's about I have my kitchen and I'm using my kitchen to sell these various products. it's they can't have an an employee I don't think and you know there's there's a lot to it um it has to be made there um and there's limitations on on what can be made and you know nothing refrigerated nothing perishable so it's it's really limited like breads and cook sort of baked goods and then I think also like maple syrup and honey and you know that sort of those types of products as well um I don't think it includes canned goods you either I'd have I have to look up. I don't think it does because there's a a risk of botulism and things like that.

Um, so it's it's really limited in what it in what it allows. And they have a whole section on buttercream frostings for your cookies in your cakes. So we would what we would do is if you use it if you do that they they have to test them, right? The state, right? Just a question, Jeremy. You're saying owner. What if it's a runner of the property? Occupant. Okay. Occupant. Okay. No, I'm just saying because it comes up as So to avoid any of those issues that have property, right?

What we would do to avoid those issues is just strictly tie the regulation back to the statute. I wouldn't even get into defining it. I would just say in accordance with and cite the section of the statute so that you know we don't have any of those discrepancies. Okay. So we'll move forward. We we'll pull something together for you all to look at and not your next. Okay. Good. It gives us some direction. So, I have permission to rip the sign down then. The town should do it, shouldn't they? Well, I'm asking the town. Yeah, it's it's it's out in the right way on a telephone pole. Call Eversource. Yeah, I was going to say it's actually you can't get them out for Yeah, right. Oh, there was a lot of Eversource trucks in town today. Well, that's because they put up the new light pole in front of town hall

today. Oh, did they? Oh, yeah. Yeah, they took took three or four trucks to go. They got it done. Thanks, Jeremy. Thank you. All right. So, we're done with that? Yep. Okay. Move on to number seven. Other business. Anybody got any? Do you got anything else for us? I've got nothing. Okay. Approval of minutes for September 8th, 2025 regular meeting. I'll make a motion to approve. I'll second it. All in favor? Communications? You have anything for us? I have nothing for you this evening. Wow. Look at the time of this one. Motion to adjurnn.

Second. That's what Jeremy wanted to hear. Okay. Unity. Very good. Thank you.

So