Planning and Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

Good evening. It's seven o'clock. I'm going to call it or the town of Winchester playing a zoning commission meeting for August 10th, 2026. We'll start with a roll call on the left.

Peter Martian, Willard Platt, Adam Quagliaroli, Charlene Lavoie.

Arista is absent and excused and we will seat Scott in her place. Okay, Scott. Yes, sir. Okay. Now we'll do agenda review. Anybody want to change anything on the agenda? Seeing nobody's, we'll start off with a public hearing for PZC 26-15. Applicant Martin J. O'Connor on behalf of Albert and Melissa Landry. Location section 415-42A new and use table. Proposed a text amendment to allow wood processing as an SUP in the rural RR zone. And is Martin here?

One moment. Did you ask for public comment aside from what we have proposed discussed for public hearings? Is there any public comment other than what's on the agenda?

Is there any public comment other than what's on the agenda? No, I skipped over that. All right, we'll start up.

Good evening, Mr. Chairman and Commission. My name is Martin Conner. I'm a certified planner with the American Institute of Certified Planners. I've been a planner for over 37 years, mostly in the northwest corner. I was a city planner in Torrington for 22 years, town planner for Goshen for 30 years. I've helped out the town of Winchester in the past. doing zoning and wetlands work, and most of the small towns in the northwest corner. I still consult for Barkhamstead and Newhart. Tonight, I'm here on behalf of my clients, the Landrys, and there's Al and Melissa, and they are interested in seeing a regulation that's adopted they can apply under for firewood processing. They actually have been doing that work, and your Eagle Eye staff saw that there was some firewood processing going on. My clients thought that that, because it had previously been farmland, that that was a use that was allowed. under the zoning regulations, but actually it's not. Although firewood processing is generally considered an agricultural use. In fact, the term farming contains silver culture in it, but technically it doesn't fit in with your regulations. So I've met with staff and we talked about the regulations AND WE LOOKED FOR AN AREA WHERE WE THOUGHT THIS MIGHT FIT INTO YOUR REGULATIONS. SO THE PROPOSAL TONIGHT, ON BEHALF OF MY CLIENTS, IS A ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT TO ALLOW A NEW COMMERCIAL USE IN THE RZONE BY SPECIAL PERMIT. IT WOULD BE CALLED FIREWOOD PROCESSING. IT WOULD BE A NEW SECTION 415 That would require a property owner to have a minimum of five acres of land and have the minimum frontage required in the RR zone. The area of firewood processing must be set back a minimum of 75 feet from the front yard property line and a minimum of 100 feet from the side yard and rear yard property lines. Because it's a special permit, that would mean that it may be allowed in the RR zone, but the commission is going to review a site-specific application and hold a public hearing on that. The special permit would allow you, if you were to approve it, to set any special conditions that you thought were necessary to protect the rural character of the neighborhood. So we think it's a pretty simple application for tonight, but the hard work would be if you do allow this to be part of your regulations, then my clients would have to come in with a site development plan and a special exception application or a special permit, you call it, in this town. And you'd hold a public hearing and you would evaluate the property and decide whether it was appropriate on that particular piece of property. We believe that this proposed regulation is consistent with your plan of conservation and development. You talk in your development about agriculture a lot, and you have the green print, which I think it characterizes low density, open space, farmland protection, And I think that this use can do all of those things that you're looking for in this type of environment. We believe that it'll add additional economic opportunities for the citizens. It provides much needed service to residents who try to save money on their fuel by burning wood. Also, it's helpful with forestry management, which is certainly in the news, and we'll probably be smelling the fires burning from Canada and from Mount West because there's not a great deal of forestry management that goes on there. So I think that the trees, the dead trees that they harvest to produce firewood from the community, it's helpful. I'D BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS, BUT FIRST, IF I COULD INTRODUCE MELISSA, BECAUSE SHE HAS TALKED TO QUITE A FEW PEOPLE ABOUT THIS REGULATION, AND SHE HAS HOW MANY LETTERS OF SUPPORT? 36. 36. SO MELISSA, COULD YOU COME UP AND INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO THE COMMISSION?

GOOD EVENING, EVERYBODY. THANK YOU FOR HAVING US THIS EVENING. As Martin said, Al and I have been around town throughout the community speaking to people about our proposal. We do have 36 letters of support from neighbors, businesses here in town, and other community members as well.

So how would you like us to submit those? There you go. some folks in the audience that...

They can speak after we get done here. Great. As soon as we get done asking questions and stuff. Scott, anything?

So this is on rural way. Okay.

Well, we're just proposing a regulation. Okay. We would have to plan later. This would be a regulation that would be allowed by special permit in the RR zone. So you would have to evaluate any applications that come in on a site basis. Okay.

So the logs will be brought in and you process them?

That's currently what we do, yes.

Okay. So log trucks will bring in the material, you'll process them, and then you'll deliver the wood to whoever needs it. Correct.

John, anything?

So what kind of vehicles are being used? Large logging trucks? All one at a time.

And what are your hours of operation? And so the wood is brought in, so it's not harvested from the five acres.

So we have 70, almost 70 acres on lower wet. And some of it is harvested on the property?

We are going to start working at that to open it up and do some of our own work because as we all know, buying it is not cheap right now. Fuel is up, everything is up.

The goal is to sell it. It's being processed for sale.

Okay. I'm familiar with the property. I live in the area myself. I just don't understand, Martin, your interpretation of our plan of conservation and development. I was on the subcommittee that spent probably a year writing this. Basically, looking at the rural area, we had a lot of public input, a lot of other town committees, you know, um it's talking about features bridge lines stone walls open space preserved rural areas should be preserved and let's get some other highlights from it what you do on sheet 4-1 talk about small-scale farming you talk about agricultural land

but maintaining a low density residential area. So that all helps with that.

But under the vision for Winchester under 3-2, it's respect the rural charm and natural beauty of the countryside. While planning and zoning, as the Commission was chartered, of course, the community must make sure the course is followed in order to realize the vision. I think the Planning and Zoning Commission has to follow what the plan of conservation and development is. And the planning objectives were to preserve natural features, maintain a low-density residential area, like you said. And I don't see a commercial operation as doing that. That's my interpretation of the plan of conservation and development. But I'm only one person, so... It is a residential area, and you're talking weekend hours. You're going to be working with heavy equipment.

We're just asking you to allow for someone to be able to apply.

But if we change the regulation, it opens it up to anywhere in residential, rural residential.

It's a special permit, so you're going to value it.

Right, but if we add it to our regulations, what I'm saying, it opens it up so other special permits could come in.

Well, only... for this part of the process.

No, I understand. I understand the way it's worded. That's all I have.

I've highlighted a few sections that I'll submit to the record that I think are consistent.

I HAVE A QUESTION. SO NOT MUCH THERE IN CONTENTS. I'M JUST CURIOUS, HOW ARE THOSE NUMBERS DERIVED? YOU HAD A FIVE-ACRE MINIMUM, AND YOU HAD STANDARD SETBACKS.

WE THOUGHT THAT IF NEEDING A STAFF, THAT THAT WOULD BE A MINIMAL AMOUNT OF LAND FOR SOMEONE TO APPLY. AND ONCE AGAIN, YOU WOULD LOOK AT A SITE DEVELOPMENT PLAN AND DECIDE WHETHER there was a spot within that five acres that this work could be done and not affect the neighborhood.

Gotcha. So on the equipment you're using, I assume maybe you do or do not have log trucks, or the log trucks are from another company, could be from another company, right? So you don't store them there, per se.

That would be part of the application that you'd be reviewing, hours of operation, types of equipment involved, and that's where conditions could be set.

Yeah. And then, so for wood, it's got to be seasoned for sale, right? Not a lot of people buy green wood. So you normally have to have a stockpile, right? That's correct. And not just a stockpile of your raw materials, but then a stockpile of your finished materials.

So you would look at a site development plan that would show you where the work would be going on and where the wood would get stored, and they would be required to follow that site development plan.

yeah and then uh so moving on with equipment you have to have minimum processor right or are we are we imagining we're gonna stockpile and then rent the processor get it all done and then uh you know but in my mind you probably have a processor you probably have some chainsaws running um and then uh you probably need a loader to move that equipment around either I see a head shake in the back. You need some equipment, right?

I think that'd be part of the, of their application. Right.

Well, we're talking the zoning general concept, the general concept use in town.

In my mind, I'm thinking about the, with those numbers to drive from and you're creating noise, right? Number one, a chainsaw runs at a hundred decibels about, or a little more. And that doesn't fade off to, I think a zoning ordinance for, uh, for sound is like down to 55 during the day. on a neighboring property. So that doesn't die down at 55 until about 300 feet. We'll check. It's an ordinary zoning, right? So if you've got chainsaw running, that's what's died down to about 55 feet after 300 feet. So if I'm thinking an operation's in the center of a perfect square, 300 feet either way, we're talking about 12 acres. not five acres, and not a setback distance of 50 feet. At 50 feet, you're still screaming at like 85 decibels. That's where my mind's at, because I've run chainsaws before, and you can hear them in the neighborhood. So that's one of my thoughts in terms of what is a byproduct of the operation is going to create is the noise for one. The stockpiling and waste products too. You're going to have waste products from this operation. Bark usually tends to fall off the wood and you got to put that somewhere. A lot of people bury it, which is no good. It should not vary.

That would all come out in the actual application.

I'm describing what happens in a wood processing operation.

Just so you know, they have been operating for three years. They didn't know that it was in violation of the zoning rights. They have been already operating. As far as I know, it was not a zoning complaint that came in. It was your zoning officer that observed that.

Yeah. So processing is just cutting wood?

Cutting, splitting, loading, dipping, drumming.

Stacking. Is there any other operation like that in Winchester? Anybody else doing this?

that we know a lot of people that sell firewood. I imagine it's, yeah, they're going on. I know. Yeah.

Well, they're chopping down a tree in there.

All right.

So my concern is you can bring in a wood processor that will process up to four cords an hour. So we're talking 30 cords a day. So unless we have something here in this ordinance that restricts the size to a month to a smaller footprint, because this doesn't do that. I see a problem. Um, I happen to have worked when my younger days in a sawmill and we got lots of complaints from neighbors, even though the saw mill had been there for a hundred years. Um, complaints from neighbors about hours of operation and log trucks coming in. Now I foresee in the future here, now they were talking ordinance, not your business. We're talking ordinance. I foresee with all the dead trees going a big market for a place to dispose of trees. So I see the potential in this zoning regulation for a larger thing with a larger processor doing four courts an hour, Three log trucks a week coming in, log trucks going out with processed wood. So I feel there needs to be something inside this regulation that restricts this to a smaller footprint. That's my viewpoint on it. Because we've had an issue before with businesses that grew because they weren't supposed to, they weren't quite, the regulation for them wasn't quite written correctly. And so I just see the need to make this more, you know, the board be more generous towards it. Maybe it needs to be, in my viewpoint, it needs to be in a smaller footprint. There needs to be writings in your thing that limit it to, I don't know, 200 chords a year maybe, I don't know, 100 chords a year. And then you need to address, I believe in your ordinance, you need to address fencing. Because I used to take logs off of the pile that was 25 feet tall. I know those piles collapse. And if you get kids running in there climbing on those piles and the logs roll down on top of them, then you've got an issue. So you need to have an ordinance that addresses fencing and gates being closed when they're not open. That shouldn't be part of special permit.

That could be a condition of approval. You, as a commission, have the ability, your planner will tell you to approve, disapprove, or you could... make some changes to the proposal.

But I still think it needs to be, the ordinance needs to be a smaller footprint. It needs to limit things. And once the ordinance is written. Regulation. No, regulation, I'm sorry. Once the regulation's written, then we have to go through the process afterwards of changing it. So you need to present it to us in a form that is agreeable to most of us. Everybody think that's okay to limit the size?

So we're talking like maximum stockpiles? Because they sell off the wood.

Yeah, they sell off. They store.

We only really care about how much is at one given time, right?

I just don't I just have a fear that we're going to have Log truck after log truck coming in when they start taking all these dead ashes off the side of the road and everything That's the reasons we did when we did the rezoning and everything else.

We've got such an area for the town gateway from the innovation zone to the areas to do that. Instead of in the middle of a residential area.

Yeah, the threshold issue is whether it passes muster of the plan of conservation and development.

And have we seen anything back from the car yet?

Yeah, we did today, actually. And their response was they find no apparent conflicts with neighboring towns.

With neighboring towns. That's the only thing they address. They're reviewing for... That's basically all they review. Intermunicipal impact.

Is there, what, nothing prevents someone from, if they bought their property and they have a site development plan, to then clear that lot and develop it and harvest that wood, whether sell off by log or split and sell it, right? There's nothing that prevents us.

Correct, and we would look at that differently. If you're cutting the trees, I mean, as Marty alluded to, if you're cutting trees on your own property, that falls under agriculture. That's agriculture. You know, if you have 60 acres and you're harvesting on a regular basis as you're thinning your, forest that's agriculture and you can do that. Or if you're clearing a lot for new home construction or something like that. I don't think anybody would bat an eyelash. You're doing it once. You're getting the trees out of there and the wood is gone. This is different. It's more of a commercial operation where the trees are coming in. They could be coming from a lot down the street, whatever the case may be. Probably, I'm guessing, probably tree companies in the area that are taking trees down for homeowners, maybe even the town to some degree. They're looking for a place to dispose of that wood. They find folks like this.

Anybody else got anything?

What's the alternative? Is we're renting open space, an existing lot that's in the commercial, or I'm sorry, product innovation? That's our current product?

It's a lot of the uses that's allowed. I think it would probably fit under a manufacturing use in one of those two zones.

It exists, right? So it's not as if we don't have... a location for this type of operation, right? It's in PNI.

This could be located in one of those zones.

Anybody in the audience got anything to say? Come forward and identify yourself. Come forward to the microphone.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Board members, here's a family that's trying to make a few bucks.

I'm sorry.

Donald McCurdy, 11 Birds All Street. Here's a family trying to make a few bucks. Not only are they trying to make a few bucks, they're also teaching children, their children, the value of a family. Al's a hardworking man. Melissa's a hardworking woman. They both have full-time jobs, and then they go and do this on the side.

They're not a huge commercial development. So we're really not talking about their application. We're talking about the zoning regulation.

Well, he brought up the noise.

In general, yeah. Of a type of operation, absolutely.

This past Saturday at 5.30 in the morning, my neighbor was mowing his lawn. My neighbor is 60 feet away from my house. They're five acres away. They're two and a half acres away. They're 500 feet. Have you been to the property? They're 500 feet from the road frontage. They're what? Where they're operating, they're 75 feet off the road. I'm sorry. 75 feet off the road. Yes. Noise is Everywhere. Generators. Generators were all going off a couple weeks ago. You're not going to stop noise. I don't believe in the three years that they've been operating they've had a complaint from any of their neighbors. I'm just hoping that you're not looking at this as a huge commercial development and that they're going to be working eight, nine hours a day. That's all. So I ask you to please accept the amendment, but you wanna see other things written. But consider the amendment. It's a family. They're trying to make a few bucks and they've got their children out there. So thank you.

Anybody else?

Air Cannon, 142 Laurel Way. I live directly across from the property where it's partaking.

You got the eggs?

Yes.

Okay.

I'm outside constantly, and the noise from him with the chainsaw and the processor is less than my neighbor mowing her lawn during the day. and I hear chainsaws constantly running from down on Rug Brook up 263, down 263, all days of the week and all weekend long. The noise that's coming from there is minimal compared to everything that we hear up there. with lawnmowers, chainsaws, quads, dirt bikes, everything. It's there. So I hope that you guys look at this amendment and go forward with it because I'm right there in the middle of it and it does not bother me at all. Thank you.

I'm not real good at this, but I'm going to give it a go. Al Landry, 119 Rubbrook. We own the property on Laurel Way. I think I screwed that up already. I'm sorry. Commissioner, I apologize. Okay. Jump right in there. Nope. So this word processor keeps getting thrown around, right? Not running a processor. Processor cuts the logs, splits the logs all at once, right? That's how a processor works. You need a machine to load that processor. You need a belt. You need a lot of equipment. I'm not a rich man. I've got five kids. I'm doing this the old school way. Yes, do I have a very nice splitter? Yes, I do. My wife bought it for me when we were in Bangor, Maine. Yes, does it lift the cut log? Yes, it does. It's only 28 ton run off a gas engine. This thing is not a big machine. And yes, I do have a elevator that is 20 feet long, also ran off of a small gas engine. Both of those engines in a seven hour run period do not burn more than three and a half gallons. Pretty efficient to me. I enjoy doing this very much. I know it's a lot of work. But it also pays off when you can go to other people's houses and they've been getting taken advantage of by the big guys for a long time. where we actually stack every single cord in a four by four by eight box. And then we cover it. You get a true full dry cord every time. I'm not even, this year we were on schedule to hit a hundred cord. I'm not gonna lie to you. That was my goal. Was 100 cord. We were on schedule to hit a hundred cord. Not gonna lie. Do I ever see myself One, I don't really have the time, but I would love to. I work full-time. I work for USA Hauling. I run their maintenance division from Brattleboro, Vermont to New York City. That's my full-time job. I have a two-year-old truck with 100,000 miles on it. I'm moving all the time for them. When I come home, this is what I do. I'm not looking to be a big guy. That's not what I'm looking at. I'm not looking at...

Your business is the issue.

The issue in front of us is the regulation. But now I understand what you're talking about by listening to how do we control it? How do we control it? And how do we section this down to say, Hey, you can't have over a 30 ton splitter, right? we can't have over a 30 ton splitter band. Or quantity process, the maximum quantity process.

Correct. Hours of operation and all those things. I do four or five quart of wood myself. And I believe that's the way we should. I know what the work is.

That's the way we need to look at it so we don't end up with A factory wood processor. And you're not wrong.

I can't afford one of those. They're $300,000.

I know, but that's what we have to look at here.

Somebody could come in Winchester Center. Because if somebody else comes in. There are processors in Winchester Center, just so everyone's aware. People have them. They're hit away. Big, big ones. They're splitting over 100 cords a month. And log trucks are coming in and out of the roads. Very, very heavy. And I know that for a fact. A hundred cords a month.

Okay.

That's okay. That's them. They did it better than I did. I'm not hiding nothing. I'm out in the open. I don't plan on hiding anything. I think everybody deserves to see what they get and how they get it. And I really hope that we can come to an agreement on size of equipment. space of equipment, how much you're allowing to store, and let's take it from there. Come over, check it out. I'm wide open to that all times. You're more than welcome to come on the property, check out what I'm doing, see everything before you even make a decision. Just trying to do a little extra and give a good product all at the same time.

You own that property?

Yes, ma'am.

Yes. Where else in Winchester is that allowed? You're talking about the...

So it'd probably fall into heavy manufacturing because of the noise. And that, according to the regulations, is only allowed in production and innovation zone. So if people are up here doing that in Winchester Center, that's not the zone.

but a smaller footprint wouldn't be that noisy if you, you know, and that that's, that's the problem where I'm having right now. And you understand that?

Yes, sir. So absolutely. I'm willing to go off of any regulation you want to set. You told me I can split one cord or I can split a hundred cord. Let's let's work it out. Let's work out the differences.

Then you can have a hundred of these in rural residential areas on throughout the zone in town. How would you not? I mean, that was what zoning is about, to put certain uses in certain areas. Once you open that door, this is not about you, by the way. I understand that.

Absolutely. I understand you guys are trying to protect them.

Yeah.

trying to protect the town and make sure the regulation is Rick correctly.

So that way they'd be the only special permit we approve and nobody else gets one. I mean, how does that work?

I think if we keep it small enough, it'll discourage, it'll discourage the big people away. The a hundred cores a month people.

Well, they're, they're apparently doing it anyway.

I haven't even hit a 100-quarter.

No, no, not you, but others up there are doing it.

They're doing it no matter what and not... Not in this town. Oh, yes. Yes, sir, in this town.

He said Winchester Center.

It might not directly be in Winchester Center, but it is in Winston.

I don't... It's near there.

It's near there. That's not what this is about, though. This is...

Well, this is just creating a regulation they can apply under, and then you can set conditions. You can say how.

I understand that, Marty.

We can do sizes, but then you can argument why it wasn't in the regulation.

I think a fair ask from me, or a fair ask to me, is if you would like Marty to rewrite this again. I think a very fair ask would be no more than 150 cord, which is, I mean, you can blow through that in no time. The size of the machinery, we put a cap at tonnage size.

Not all splitters are hydraulic, right?

99.9% of a processor is all hydraulic. It's all hydraulic driven. Your wedge pusher is always hydraulic driven. and it always has a maximum tonnage weight that it can push through. So, like, mine's a 28-ton HL. I'm sure you've seen Easton Maid's processors that are the big ones with the big saws right on them.

Multitech.

Yeah, he can push through. His pusher is what it's called is a 60-ton pusher. He has tripled the size of what I'm doing. And I think if we if we can all come to an agreements The size of the equipment the hours of operation the amount of Wood that is allowed to be stored And brought in because on average every log truck is only seven quart of wood just so everyone knows on average There's seven quart That's not a whole lot So you will see piles, but those piles disappear very quickly. What's your pile size now? My pile size right now probably has uncut, my uncut pile probably has 25 to 30 cord in it. It's hard to judge because of the way it sits. And I can't remember... Because I totally stopped once I got the letter, guys. I have not been down there. I have not cut a single ounce. I have waited for this moment to talk to you to make sure that I don't upset anyone. I want to do it the right way. That's why I'm here. I want to help other people do it the right way. I more or less care about myself. I'm not going to lie. But we can write it so tight that it makes it harder for other people to do. Kind of what your concern is, sir. You don't want that big orange processor sitting in the center of Winchester blowing through logs. And I totally understand that. I totally respect that. That's not what I'm looking to do. But I think maybe Marty and I will go back. the drawing board and maybe we'll sit down at the table and we'll we'll take some of these notes and maybe we should come back and try this again to make this a little tighter and a little more comfortable for everyone in the room instead of leaving such a blanket statement out there Does that sound better?

Limiting the size makes it better in my mind.

You may want to put in that, Marty, something to do with sedimentation erosion controls, what might be needed, like at least 75 feet from wetlands. Also, just because of the hydraulics used, I mean, even though the log trucks are using hydraulics and you can't control that, they blow a line, they blow a tank, they hit something, it's running in the stream and it's in Winchester Club Pond.

Talking about your property and you work with hydraulics every day. I work with hydraulics every day, I understand.

And I've dammed up that stream from a car accident in the middle of a snowstorm, so it didn't get in Winchester Club Pond.

And I think another thing we should consider too with this, Is that if I did apply for farm a hundred percent? Some of the wetlands exemptions don't matter through the state out with farming. They don't there's a lot of them There there is another avenue to go with this if I need to But we see big thing with farming is if you're harvesting on your property and I can harvest on my property But I'm more than welcome to harvest at all. Yes, if that's really I really where we're going to go with this and we can continue to to find the right way to get this done so everybody's happy i i don't see that a problem either i would love to have cows there i know that's a special permit through the town too i'm more than willing to pay for that i just want to work with everyone and make everyone comfortable to get this through so i can make get back to doing what i enjoy doing It is part of a passion for me, too. I enjoy it. It's mind-numbing. I work in a high-stress environment all day long. I have 150 people to answer to.

It's a good way to get rid of it.

And it's very nice to sit there and split and be by myself. I did the same thing. I had 168 people. You have to get rid of it. It's kind of where I was going with all of this. And I am sorry for even doing it without knowing... that I was wrong. So as soon as I found out, you guys thought I was wrong. I did completely stop. There has not been an ounce of anything done down there.

Do you live on that property?

No, ma'am. It is a vacant lot. We live on 119 Redbrook road, which is right up the road from there. Nope.

Yeah.

Anybody else have anything to say? The audience. Thank you. All right, so do me a favor. Go close the gate to your property.

It is closed, sir.

It wasn't this afternoon. Because I was in there. Oh, okay.

My pickup was backed in there.

Because I drove by this afternoon, and I drove by a couple times, and I looked, and the gate was open, and I saw the pile of logs back there, and I'm just thinking kids are going to try to take a dirt bike up it or something.

I was in there. Okay. It was right around noontime, right? That was actually about 2 o'clock. Yeah, so I was just getting ready to leave. All right.

Well, we would ask you to continue the public hearing to make some revisions.

I think that's agreeable. No, that's fine.

Not a problem.

And you'll come back with something a little different from the notes and the conversations tonight? Absolutely. Okay.

We will come back with something different.

Thank you.

Thank you. I can make that motion. All right, go ahead. I make a motion to continue public hearing PZC 26-15.

A month from now, give us more time. You want more time?

You want a month?

I need a little more time. Okay.

No problem. Whatever time you need.

I'm going to be away on the 24th. Okay, so it'll be September 14th.

September 14th. Is that good?

Then we'll give this time to make these proposed revisions, and we'll meet with staff again and review it with them. We'll second that motion.

All in favor?

Now, nothing prevents him from splitting wood on his property.

He's splitting wood for his own use between now and then.

I see no problem with him. He's cutting and splitting wood for his own use. I see no problem. That's not commercial. I do it every day on my own property.

Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you.

so under old business that just got continued until september 14th so under new business we have anything nothing under new okay so we'll go off to other business discussion of marina related regulations we've talked about this a couple of different ways last month as we landed

My notes were...

This has been going around for a while.

It's been going around for a while. It's a lot shorter than it was. Yeah, we're trying to keep it narrow, which I think is what the intention of you all was. So we adjusted the definition sections. You have those in your packet. I sent those out last week, or Shane sent them out, rather. I did get a note from Arista, and I think her point was good. I want to bring it up. I think you all copied on it. Yeah, we do.

And I think that's appropriate.

Okay.

So Rista's comment was basically to strike those uses related to a permitted marina and substitute maybe those uses that would typically be accessory to a marina. And her point was because the one that's over there is pre-existing legal non-conforming, we don't necessarily have a permitted marina, but we do have the one marina.

Yeah, I thought it made a lot of sense.

Okay, so if everybody's good with that language, we'll go ahead and make that change. And then, so we've got the marina definition, which we talked about, the service is major and the service is minor.

Just a question. When we gave them all the permits for the docks and everything else, did we actually permit the whole marina? I wasn't here then. You weren't here then? Okay, I was here, but...

Yeah, we had modifications in the file, but I think I talked about this a while ago.

Okay, I didn't know, so we permitted the whole thing, because we did all the docs, we went through that at length of time, and we also did the fuel tank for him to sell fuel and things like that.

And I think it was done as a modification, if I remember correctly.

Okay, I don't remember if it was a full permit or not. I can go back. But if you couldn't find it, I mean, it should have been there from then, but that was...

Yeah, we'll dig through the file.

I think it was all modifications, and we didn't get to the bottom of the file to find the original. Yeah, couldn't find it.

Yeah, just couldn't find the original. And there may not be an original.

Exactly, and I don't remember. I mean, that was seven, eight years ago.

It may not have needed an original because it probably went back pre-zoning.

Right, yes. It was probably going back to the 50s before zoning that it was there.

And I think that's Krista's point in changing the language. Yeah, I agree. Okay, so I'll make those changes.

Changing the language also opens it up to say that that property came up for sale and a larger marine corporation wanted to come in with a big showroom and needs a permit.

Yeah.

so it's been easier for them uh... and uh... uh...

add marina services major as a special use permit, add marina services minor as a site plan. And again, we'll do this however the commission wants. If you want them both to be site planned, if you want them both to be special use permit, I thought major should have a little bit higher level review than minor, minor. It's pretty minor stuff. We're good with that. And the other thing, and this is really not... necessarily marina related. Well, it sort of is. So we talked about storage, personal and mini warehouse use allowed over in that zone because of that building on the corner that put up its signs and it's not operating. But that was part of the conversation at one point. So that's added in here as a special use permit. And then vehicle sales and service pleasure A SPECIAL USE PERMIT ADDED INTO THE TOWN CENTER ZONE. AND IT'S KIND OF INTERESTING THAT THAT WASN'T ALREADY IN THERE BECAUSE YOU DO ALLOW CAR SALES IN THE TOWN CENTER, SO WHY NOT, YOU KNOW, THOSE OR WHATEVER, PLEASURE, ARMY, WHATEVER IT IS. AND I THINK THIS WAS ADDED BECAUSE OF AN EXISTING FACILITY THAT'S DOING SOME OF THIS CURRENTLY.

YEAH, IF WE WANT TO TRY TO GET THIS PLACE RIGHT, THEY NEED AN AVENUE.

I think that's the extent of the changes in Houston.

Did you add those in?

Yeah, yeah, parking lot. We added parking lot small scale and parking lot large scale.

Okay, I see that.

In HLB.

But I didn't see anything about storage. Yeah, that's... It's there. No, I don't see it.

The second, no, it's probably the third. 1.4.

Right there. 1.4, yeah. Storage, personal.

All right, pages stuck together.

I got it wrong.

Okay. I got that, yeah.

Yeah, we got that. Again, the four vendor fairs, that's a minor. But there's nothing in major form to have vendor fairs on a major... Yeah, correct.

And my thinking is that based on what they want to do over there, they're going to need one.

I mean, you know more than we do. We've had that discussion with my concern if we're limiting it.

Yeah, we kept it separate because, you know, there are... They're going to be different uses on different properties. That's what I didn't know.

They may have it on the other property. It's not allowed.

I think over there the vendor fairs are going to end up on the property where the building is. On the left side. Left side if you're heading up the hill. Whereas the boat storage and trailer parking and all that stuff is going to be primarily on the right.

We're limiting them by not having it in the other zone.

So the question... Is that vendor fairs, for vendor fairs, is that enforceable? Do we know, like, are they going to advertise for having a vendor fair? Count me in.

I think we will probably do, you know, and we can talk a little bit about this, but I'm thinking that when you issue the special permit and the site plan, we can just have them get a zoning permit for those here. Yeah, they should give us their dates.

Yeah, because we'll be coming in for a zoning permit from you to get that.

Yeah, and then they can... I don't anticipate it's going to be a big deal, but that's one way of regulating it.

So where the building is now is where he's going to have the vendor fairs.

I suspect.

Suspect, okay. But that's not permitted for anything. It's permitted for whatever was going on before, and it's never had a vendor fair there.

Correct. He would need to come in and get these new permit types.

So how does that, if he comes in for the, the only thing that had a vendor fair, as far as I could see, was the marina services minor? Yeah. So then if he gets a marina services minor for that property that's already grandfathered in, Doesn't quite make sense to me.

You just add those new uses.

But then he can only store boats on that property for three months, less than three months, and he does store winter boats there.

On the rear of that property, huh?

Yeah, on the rear of that property and behind the other property.

So the way I envision it is, Any of the sites, any of the properties where he plans to do any of the stuff in major, he'd need to apply that special use permit to those parcels. Any of the parcels where he intends to do any of these things listed in minor, he'd need to apply for a permit and get that approved for those parcels. There are going to be some parcels that have both.

Okay, now I understand.

Yeah, there will be some parcel.

So you can apply for both minor and major on one parcel.

Correct. And some, you know, major special use permits, a higher level of discretion on your part, minor site, the way we have it right now, minor is a site plan, so a little bit lower level discretion on your part. Right, so different activities on different sites.

And if we get rid of the permitted marina holder language like Rista suggested, other people could apply for a major or a minor on a different HLB property that is not associated with it. Could. Okay. Yeah. Just make sure you all understand.

That was my concern before Rista's email today.

So that settles all that.

And there's not a lot of HLB properties.

There's one more down the street which probably could never be used for taking boats in and out of because it's on a hill on a corner.

Vertical storage. Vertical storage. If we're going to remove the... between a permitted marina. But we probably want to remove retail sale of boats, personal water pressure delays, Pleasure link. Pleasure. Thank you. Which I think is already allowed in that zone. If it's not, what we'll do is we'll move that into that zone. We need to add it. Because rather than having two uses talk about the same thing, I'd rather, I know it creates this layering effect of necessary permits. But rather than have retail sales of boats, personal watercraft, and related supplies essentially under two permits, I say we strike that language and we'll just move that sales.

Vehicle sales and service professional?

No, pleasure. Pleasure. Pleasure. Pleasure.

Define that for me.

Well... Right. I guess you're right. As I'm talking, I might talk myself right out of that. Because it could be RVs. It could be quads.

It could be dirt bikes. Maybe we leave it as it is.

Probably don't have enough room on any of those parcels in that zone to facilitate that.

The only place this is going to be is in the Highland Business District. That's right. So should we include it in the zone down here for Willow Street?

Well, and so we could do with that.

To make that non-conforming or what? I mean, I'm just throwing it out there. Because it's non-conforming in a way now.

we talked about moving the sales and service pleasure into town center, which is what this property is over here, but maybe we do it as marine service. Yeah.

Cause then we'd get into the same, then we could have a quad dealership. Right. I don't think that's what we're looking for. So yeah, maybe we allow these.

Well, I just bring it up because I mean, we have the service there now. Um, do we try to make our regulations?

So what's the operating on over there now? You know,

No permit as far as I know. Pre-existing non-conform.

Okay. And what is Bruce Boulder operating under?

He's got the sales and service pleasure, I believe. He's got a permit, I can tell you that, because I worked with him two years ago or so. So he could do quads and... Technically, yeah.

mobile homes. So under the marina services major you said parking as determined by the commission.

Yeah I mean I think the number of parking spaces that's for that type of use really needs to be hashed out during the public permit. Because it's going to depend on most parking regulations that you have are tied to the amount of square footage of a building or they're tied to the number of seats in a restaurant or something like that. In this case, we're talking about a number of boat slips that have any number of boats tied up to them. could have any number of guests going to those boats at any given time, plus the sales and service use across the street. And I think that number of parking really needs to be somewhat flexible and give you some discretion between you and the applicant to figure out what is appropriate for their signing. That's my feeling. I would have a hard time putting a heart number in.

It is a hard thing to do. Because when he had the wellness fair this weekend, that was the most vehicles I'd seen parked there. Once he created the parking lot, got the vehicles off the street and out of his lot on the other side, that spruced things up a lot. We don't have them on the street. He didn't have them all jammed in on the other side.

Yeah. So... Yeah, that's going to have to be for discussion, I think.

Yeah, I think that's just and we have a couple of other uses that we do that with. I can't remember what they are, but it's more or less just as determined by the commission storage.

You can't determine the number of storage spaces because that's going to be up to the fire marshal based on the distances they need to be apart and everything and the size of the boats. I mean, it's there's too many variables there.

So under the way this is written, Can we still ask for a low fence down where the trailers are stored?

I think you certainly could. For those that are stored for more than three months, it's in the major and it's a special permit. You could do it as a condition of approval if you wanted to.

I don't care about when the wintertime is because they're down below the dam. and they don't really show any orders. It's just the trailers when they're coming up there all over the road there.

So where they are now? Yeah. So that's three months or less? Six months?

No, it'll be more.

Probably longer term.

He started putting the boats in. He put the docks in at the beginning of May. He started putting boats in the middle of May. And they'll come out just before drawdown. So they'll be coming out.

October. So they fall into the major anyway. So then, yes, you could do fencing as a condition of approval if you chose to.

Okay. Fencing or a vegetative barrier?

Yeah, whatever you choose to do. And there is some language in your parking requirements now for vegetation, for landscaping, so you can lean on that as well.

Okay. Now, do we have to have a public hearing for this?

Yes, it's a regulation change. Okay. So, I mean, I think if the commission, if we're at a point where we're going to make those couple of changes we discussed tonight, make the change that Rista suggested, we'll swap out Marina Services Minor for Vehicle Sales and Service Pleasure downtown center. If we're in a good position.

You're going to do what now?

We had initially put in vehicle sales and service pleasure in town center to take care of this situation over here. Right. But it might make more sense to do marina services minor, which allows retail sale of boats and water. Over here? Over here, yeah.

Okay, okay.

You've still got the long-term service or long-term storage in wintertime, too.

story yeah oh yeah all along the rivers so it's gonna have to be major it's the teeth got boats over there got shrunk wrapped last fall I haven't even come out yeah so if the Commission's pretty much content with where we are with those few tweaks I'll submit the application we could schedule a hearing for I don't know, I guess early September. If they're early, we could go later than that. We could go to the second meeting in September.

Yeah, I guess I'll go with it. Scott, you're smiling.

No, I'm good.

whatever you want i remember he's played do it after winter months or during the winter months of the series yeah we can we can do that you know because at this point the season's right we're going to sneeze and the season's going to be over for voting the season will be over by the time it's approved so we're talking about trying to get this permitted correctly for next year at this point anyway but there'll be enough people around

active people around.

Oh, sure.

So you tell me when you want to hear it. More year-round residents.

Yeah. I think let's do the September one.

The first one or second one? 14th or 28th? 14th.

Okay.

We're going to talk about firewood processing and boat storage on the 14th.

Okay.

So we're all good with everything? Charlene, you're good with it? Yeah. OK. I feel progress. Now this one here. Discussion of the 20-foot setback requirement at Highland Lake.

Yeah, so this is really just, I'm just taking the temperature of the commission. We've had a couple of inquiries that have come in about people who want to do pervious patio pavers down by their waterfront. And right now, a strict reading of the section of the regulation, which is in the HL zone, subsection 5. I don't have it open, but I can get it. would tell you you can't do that. No patios, no decks, essentially nothing within 20 feet of the... lake shoreline and so you know the question was we we've you know we've received this question a couple of different times uh pervious patios within that area how does the commission feel i'm not saying buildings i would i would not advocate for buildings within 20 feet of the lake shoreline myself i wouldn't say impervious surfaces make sense um you know i wouldn't advocate for any kind of structure i'm just taking your temperature on pervious patios down by the waterfront

The problem I see with that is they're great when they're new, but who's going to monitor the maintenance and the upkeep? After five years, after ten years, you've got an impervious surface. There goes everything into the lake. That's my opinion.

The other thing is wouldn't this almost fall in wetlands' hands?

Well, it would. Anything within 100 feet. Right.

So then to do a pervious patio correctly, you basically have to do a perk test on the ground being that closer to water. And if it gets into the water table, then it doesn't work. It's not from what I understand now, I'm not an expert. Uh, I know there's been a lot of patios or a few patios built that I believe were never permitted. Uh, I don't know. I think it's a big door that's opening up. I think it's just too close to the lake. I mean, you've got 20 feet away, and that area is open, with the 20 feet to the lake.

With heavy rain, at least with the grass, that 20 feet slows the flow of water down considerably.

Yeah. And everything is being promoted now with putting plantings down near the lake to keep the geese from coming on the property, slowing down the water and everything. I don't know. There's only a couple. Maybe not at this time.

Okay.

Everybody else agree?

That's what I feel. I'm thinking about that property down the end of Wakefield that looks like it's made out of patios. You know what I'm talking about? I don't know how they got that in there.

Made out of what?

The patios are going like all the way up. from the base of the house all the way up to the top of the house. There's probably four porches, I guess you could say. But where's that?

Oh, they built walls and stayed in. It's tiered.

It's all open. It's not enclosed.

It's white?

No, I think it's brown.

Whereabouts is that? What end?

Right on the end of Wakefield coming from the north side. Right at the corner there. Is that Third Bay?

It's gotta be over the east side. The north side is first day. South side is third day.

First day. Yeah. I'm not that familiar with the lake, but, um, I could take a picture, but I, I don't know how, um, what the, uh, regulations were at the time when that was built, but I could just see that. on other properties, more over the water, closer to the water type of thing.

I can't think of which house you're talking about.

Is it on the other side of the street, the one you're talking about?

Or is it on the lake side? It's right on the lake. On the water side. Right on the water side, right at the end of the bay. I see it every time I go up there. There's a bunch of properties back tucked in there on the right-hand side as you're going.

Got to be down in the cold on the east side. Yeah, that sounds right.

I can't think of it. I'm surprised that nobody knows what I'm talking about. It seems like to me every time I drive by, I'm like, oh, my God.

I'll have to go look now. Yeah. All right. Thirsty when you're right around it.

I'll look for it.

I probably look at it every day and can't figure out which one it is.

I think we actually talked about it in here years ago. I've been on this commission for eight years. I'm having deja vu right now about this property. I guess maybe nobody's been thinking about it since then, but that's fine. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that. I'm just saying that's kind of what I'm thinking is Why I would think it might not be such a great idea.

In addition to the patio discussion in that 20 foot setback, we do have some folks here tonight who are in the midst of constructing either a structure or a piece of furniture in that area too. And we were looking for maybe a little guidance from the commission to come up and explain. Yes, please. If it's all right with you. That's what they were waiting for. Okay.

As long as you're not splitting firewood.

I don't believe so.

Hi there. Yes. Hi. How are you? Thank you for hearing us. So we're at 728 and 729A West Wakefield. I saw that. And we're actually purchasing 729 across the street. It's under contract. We're supposed to close Thursday. But anyway...

The one for 328?

Pardon?

The house for 328, 325?

I'm sorry.

The one with the silo?

Yes, this little turret.

I think it was cheap. Yes.

Don't tell anyone. Yeah, so we constructed what we were going to consider a pavilion because for to prevent you know for shade But a gentleman came by and said that that was not possible because it's too close to the neighbors It's too close to the lake but I did some research and I I think that I determined and of course you guys can tell me that it sounds like because we have a legal non-conforming lot we we potentially could qualify for a variance if needed but if we consider that this is really a piece of basically high-end outdoor custom furniture that my husband built, then does that even qualify? There's no impervious nature. There's no additional impervious footprint.

You're on a concrete slab now, right?

No, it's on a deck. There's a deck there. Wooden? Trex. Trex.

So this is built above the deck?

Yes, it's just built on the deck, and the deck is basically on the ground. So we're not adding any cement pilings or anything like that. We're just sticking it on the deck. And because it's legal nonconforming, it sounds like we only need nine feet on each side. And it's literally in between our two cottages. So the only properties that would be bothered by it are ours. And it's not higher than our cottages. So it's not impacting anybody else's sight lines or anything like that. So at this point, we'd just like to leave it there as basically a piece of furniture and not cover it so that we don't have to deal with any impervious structure. We're not going to do that. We were going to do that, but then we talked about the impervious structure problem. But I would also argue that the rest of the property, which is a slope, It's, you know, West Wakefield Boulevard, and ours is probably one of the worst, except for the one with the crane on the other side. It's literally a slope. You can't do anything with it except walk down it. Like, I can't build anything up there. I can't put anything up there. I can't really use it. We have, you know, we mow it and all of that, but that's about it. So we just have this little space in between the two cottages, so it's really the only... place to put it. So that's what we're arguing. It's just something like a custom piece of furniture. So what's it made out of? What's it made out of?

Hemlock. Hemlock wood.

It's like six by six hemlocks?

He's hard of hearing. He's got hearing aids.

Six by six? Yes.

How is the deck affixed to the ground.

The deck has something under it, right?

It mostly sits on the rocks. There's a lot of rock there.

It's kind of sitting, resting there.

I mean, it's a really pretty...

I mean, it's not like aesthetically unpleasing or anything like that. It's beautiful. We could stain it or paint it to blend into the surroundings.

What is it, a large bench?

It's like a pergola.

On top of the deck.

So it provides additional. I'm very fair. I have been diagnosed with many forms of skin cancer. So I just want shade, right? So that was the intent was to make it a roof. But if we can't do that, I'm fine with just leaving it the way it is because it does provide some additional shade for me.

You've got a canopy under it right now.

I have my umbrella under it right now from my, yeah, yeah. I mean, if I had to, I could take the umbrella down. I really just want to be able to leave the structure. It's beautiful.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We don't want them in there.

It's that.

You got a picture of it? I got a picture of it. Well, I saw this this morning.

I saw this this morning. It ruined these poor folks' life. Yes, yes, it definitely did. I saw it this morning.

But if we don't do anything additional with it, it's just, like I said, it's not, it's like an environmental non-event. Like there's, we're not doing anything to the environment. We're not, we're not.

They need a variance of ZBA for that or not?

Well, if it's considered furniture, then no. It's not set in post. You can argue it's not a permanent structure, not moving 6x6 M-Lock. It might be difficult, but it could be done.

I didn't know where we stand on that.

So it's not attached to this deck?

It is attached, but we can unattach it if we needed to. Like if that were a thing, if you said if it was unattached, you're good. We can unattach it, and I can put like a flower box around it or something instead. Like the gentleman here before, and you know, it's the same thing. It's like out in the open. We weren't trying to hide anything. It's between our two properties, so we didn't think we, and it's not higher than anything else, so we didn't think we had a problem.

I'm almost thinking ZVA on it.

Well, the issue is whether it's a structure or furniture. What's the question? It's a definite structure to me.

That's how I look at it. If the roof had gone on, it's a building. If you look at the definition of it.

So the way I see this playing out, and it's there now, four or five years from now, roof goes on it.

Yeah.

That's the way I see it playing out. So I think you're better off going before ZBA and getting them to settle with you on it than us.

Oh, you're not zoning? Sorry, I don't understand.

It's a different board. These guys do the regulations and do permitting. The Zoning Board of Appeals is kind of a relief valve for special situations. It's a whole host of rules that go along with all that, but it's an application. You give it a variance.

Everything on Highland Lake is nonconforming.

Yeah. I mean, people drive by and go, look, that's the smallest house on the lake, you guys. I mean, the lots are so tiny, there's literally not much we can do. But again, we do have that whole hill that technically qualifies as part of the property.

Right.

The variance would be best for them.

I think a variance is best for you, and figure out what you want to do with it, if you want to put a roof on it.

Ask for it.

Ask for it.

The variance allow us to, like, I'm just, like, I don't know anything about this stuff.

Yeah, so touch base with the office. Shane and Jeff can walk you through that.

Okay.

Okay. Yeah, we want to put a shade thing where water goes through it.

If possible. Yeah.

if possible yeah like whatever we can do i mean i'm happy at this point to just leave it up so you're talking about putting uh

boards up there with spaces between them or yeah trellis right i think the best thing or something like anything that would allow us to go for what you want and then go before zba and negotiate with them and jeff can help you with that yeah building inspector both they can help you with that that's that's the best way that you're safe and you're covered right okay so

Do you think there's any chance that they would not, you don't know. Okay.

We have no idea what they do. Yeah.

And remind me, do you have a survey of that property?

No.

Okay.

Well, we'll talk more.

Okay.

You can give them language for a DBA necessity, right? So they understand. Yeah. Right.

There's something in the Highland Lake District about pergolas.

I think that fits into that deck, patios, pergolas. It's all a 20-foot restriction from the lake shoreline.

Oh, okay.

And this is within that 20 feet. Yes.

For sure.

So, yeah, you're definitely going to have to go before that. It's on the Board of Appeals for a variance. Okay.

All right. So does that mean you're not going to send me a nasty letter where I have to take it down in 10 days or something?

Well, you're the person. Good move.

Not at the moment. At least do it now while you've got witnesses. Exactly.

It's on the record, right? We stopped you in the field and you took care of it.

You came right down. We can avoid the paper for now. Save the 58 cents.

We're applying for a bigger wood processor.

Okay. Good point.

Good night, guys.

On our little tiny piece of rock.

Good luck with that. You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you.

All right, so Jeff, I'll be in touch.

Yeah.

Thank you.

any more surprises that one was a little bit of a stretch but since we already had a good 20 foot setback discussion like they said come out of it it's the time to do it yeah yeah get it out now okay the other thing i had on the other visit um the garbage cans lake street 174 maine We're still on a sidewalk. Yep.

Both of them have official violation letters now.

About a month and they're still there. That's how your fines get out of control on you. Good. Find them to help. Bears love them. I know that.

I love mine too. Yep.

I got one that they can't get open. That's good.

All right, so we'll do approval of the July 27th, 2026 regular meeting.

Make a motion to approve July 27th, planning and zoning commission meeting for minutes.

Second.

All in favor? Aye. Abstaining. Communications? Nothing?

Nothing. I can bring up something.

Okay.

I just want to quickly bounce off you about the... A couple people went to Planning and Zoning, not Planning and Zoning, Board of Selectmen, and they want to see about having docs come back before Planning and Zoning. That happened like 20 years ago. Remember you used to go to both commissions? Yeah, yeah. People used to be very upset they had to pay one of the patient fees, and why would they go to Planning and Zoning when Wellens really made the decision, and I heard somebody's trying to have it come back to I don't think it's a water. It was a discussion, but I don't think it's water. I'm just letting you know that it happened at one time.

It used to come back and go in here in the wetlands, and we got rid of that.

It was back in...

that was years ago many years ago 25 years ago yeah also after the 93 regulation yeah i think we stopped going we had people stop going to planning and zoning yeah okay that's interesting for but it seems like it's yeah it's over with anyhow come forward yep there's our board come forward

I just wanted to say that the town manager did get a legal opinion from a auditorial lawyer and that is absolutely not happening. That's not going to happen. That's nice to hear.

Thank you.

It will be closed at the next meeting, I'm pretty sure.

That's good.

Thank you. One communication that did come to mind while we were talking about that is the decision on 32 Norfolk Road, the Forsaken Lands, was appealed to Superior Court, and I think there's a return date coming up here towards the end of the month, so more to come on that. That decision was appealed.

They still haven't closed on that property from what I've seen. They have not.

On what basis?

You know what the basis was?

Like every other appeal, you know, they threw a lot of things in there.

I was going to ask if the special permit was issued and if anybody had appealed in the time frame.

Yeah, they came in, I think, on day 14 of the 15 days. I figured we had two weeks.

They only had, like, 15 days.

15 days, and I think it was day 14 or 15 that they came in. Yeah.

So any other communications, anything? All right, I make a motion to adjourn. Scott seconds it. All in favor?