Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Good evening. I'd like to call the city of Wilmington Planning Commission for Wednesday, May 6 to order. I'd ask that all please join me in the pledge of allegiance. Pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America to the Thank you. Uh for the record, Commissioner Collier is excused this evening due to a uh work conflict. Um Mr. Attorney, do we have a quorum? Yes, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much. The planning commission advises city council on applications for reszoning, land development code amendments, street closures, and long range plans and policies. The commission holds legislative hearings, meaning that anyone wishing to speak on a request may do so. The commission issues a recommendation based on consistency of the request with the intent and purpose of the land code, land development code, and consistency of a request with the create Wilmington comprehensive plan and other relevant adopted plans and policies. All matters requiring commission action shall be presented to the planning commission by the planning staff and the applicant. In situations where the planning staff is the applicant, there will only be one presentation. City staff will make the first presentation and the applicant will make the second presentation. To maintain an orderly meeting, all presentations shall proceed without interruption unless the commission desires to intervene with questions or comments. For public hearings, the chair will open the public hearing for those physically present wishing to speak about an item. Those in favor of an item shall be heard first, followed by those opposed to an item. A 10-minute time will be allowed for public comment in favor of an item, and a 10-minute time will be allowed for public comment in opposition to an item. A staff member will track the 10-minute periods and will notify the speaker at the five minute mark, one minute mark, and verbally call time when time expires. The chair and their discretion may extend these time periods. And who's our timekeeper tonight? Excellent. Thank you, Mr. Chambers. All groups, organizations, neighborhoods, or similar associations desiring to comment are asked to appoint one spokesperson to present their concerns or point of view to the commission on each agenda item. The public has been encouraged to submit their comments in writing via a web-based form located at the city of Wilmington's website. All comments received prior to 3 p.m. today were

forwarded unedited to the planning commission. All comments received will be delivered to city council when the item advances and all comments received will be made available to the public if requested. Miss Bradshaw, have we rece We did not receive any comments for either item.

Thank you. I can see the top of you and that's all. Uh for voting, all votes will be roll call votes after proper motions are made and consistency statements read into the record. The chair will state the outcome of the vote in the action. Reszoning requests that receive an unfavorable recommendation from the planning commission may be appealed by the applicant to the Wilmington City Council. Appeal should be in the form of a letter submitted to the city clerk within 10 days of this hearing. Any item that is appealed will tentatively be heard by city council at the June 16, 2026 meeting. First item of business is the approval of the April 1st planning commission meeting. Any comments from any members of the commission? Do I hear a motion for to approve?

I'll make a motion we approve. Second. We have a a motion and a sec. A motion and a second. All those in favor? I I. Any opposed? Excellent. Thank you. Um, first item of new business is item number one, the greater downtown plan, adoption of a special area plan for the neighborhoods that were part of the city's corporate limits in 1945 and the Love Grove neighborhood as an appendix to the create Wilmington's comprehensive plan. And Miss Painter will be presenting on behalf of staff.

Good evening, uh, chair, vice chair, and members of the commission. I am very excited to be here this evening to present the greater downtown plan. Uh and I apologize my presentation will be longer than five minutes because we are presenting a plan for 18 neighborhoods to you this evening. Uh just to set the stage a little bit that where we are in the process is at plan adoption and this presentation is going to take you through uh the entire plan development process. Uh but we wanted to just give you a little bit of an overview of how we got here in terms of the the actual plan itself. staff published the draft plan in October 2025. The commission may remember that we present did a brief overview for you and the council at a joint meeting meeting in the fall. We also did some uh small group meetings with you uh to get your feedback and comments on the plan before we uh published it and put it out for public review. uh after receiving all the input uh through uh the beginning of January this of this year, staff has taken all of that feedback received from the community and the commission and made adjustments to that draft plan that was published. We presented that to the implementation committee uh on April 1st of this year. The implementation committee is comprised of senior city staff and the goal of that committee is to make sure that what we are putting in the plan is feasible and implementable and that we're not putting in something that is just so far out of touch in reality that we will not be able to do it. On April 15th, we present it to the community steering committee uh for their their feedback and comments. And that brings us to this evening and uh the public hearing before you and re requesting a recommendation for you to city council. I will note that we are proposing this as an amendment to the comprehensive plan which is something we I don't believe we have done before. Uh the city has adopted many small area plans in the past. In this particular case, what we'd like to do is adopt this as an appendix to the comprehensive plan so that it basically supplements and becomes part of that policy document

which is then used uh in any applications coming forward before you and the council related to land use actions within the study area. So what is the greater downtown plan? uh is as the chair mentioned uh when he introduced this. This is a plan for the 18 neighborhoods that were part of the city with in 1945 as well as the Love Grove neighborhood and it's going to be update. We are updating three plans that have been previously been adopted. The north side community plan which was adopted in 2003, the Wilmington vision 2020 plan which was adopted in 2004, and the south southside small area plan which is adopted in 2009. and to help understand just kind of the framework we're working in. If you think about the the comprehensive plan itself, which is citywide, it's a high level policy document. So, probably about the 30,000 foot view of the city in terms of specificity. When we're doing uh these types of special area plans, we're really looking at probably about 10 to 15,000 foot view. So, we're getting more detailed, but it's not street level. We're going to do this specific intervention or recommend this specific thing to happen at this location. that would be more of a district master plan uh level of of plan development. So in terms of what's in the plan, we have three main chapters. The first is the executive summary and it gives you the basic background. Why did we feel it was necessary to do a plan? It shares local history, the process we went through to develop the plan, an overview of the community input we received and how that community input came up came resulted in a vision statement for the overall plan. It also identifies several focus areas where we see it that we see as catalyst sites for development in the future. The second chapter focuses on the goals, the strategies and the actions we have and we have identified four four main themes and a fifth theme of resiliency which runs throughout the plan. The third chapter is our game plan. How do we implement the plan? How

do we move it forward? How do we how do we put this um identify the partners that will help us do this and the anticipated time frames for for moving specific actions forward? And with that I want to say tonight is not and the adoption process is not the end of a process for us. It is the beginning. This is simply the conclusion of step one. Once this plan is adopted our attention f turns to implementation and making the the community's vision a reality. So to go through the plan process a little bit, we really kicked this process up off in the fall of two 2023. And we did that with pre-engagement at six locations throughout greater downtown. And we asked two key questions. What do you love about greater downtown? And what needs love? And the answers the community gave us helped us form the scope of work for the overall project that we then sent out to consulting teams to assist. And with that I do want to note mention the agency and landscape uh firm was our primary consultant on this. They did bring in subconultants as well all of whom were recognized in the in the document itself and we would not be here this evening without their assistance. In the summer and fall of 2024 after we had our consulting team on board we kicked off our first large phase of engagement. Uh and that really was about identifying the community's overall vision. We asked them to dream big. tell us what tell us what in their ideal downtown they would have. We took the feedback that we received from that and then worked on creating crafting strategies. How could we help implement that vision that they were telling us that roadmap was road tested and with engagement in the winter and fall of 2025 where we went back to the community and said did we hear you right? Are we missing anything? And that's where our resilience strategy started to to form based on those conversations. And last but not least, once we had a draft plan, strategies, actions, visions, all of the narrative that you have seen, that went back out to the community and we went back with it. Uh we did not go with the

traditional approach of putting it in a library or posting it online and asking people to comment. We crafted surveys to seek their input on did we get it right, what their priorities were, and we also met them where they were at multiple community events. So to highlight some of the engagement opportunities that folks have had overall we have engaged we've had engagement for with 60 over 6,300 people in the community through a variety of surveys, focus groups, appearances at community events and for public open houses. As I mentioned phase one was about learning from the community what were their priorities. All of that th this engagement strategy was based on the feedback we had received during phase one enga or the pre-engagement and you'll see the highest number of engagement during phase one. Part of that probably is because we kicked it off at the Aelia festival which if you ever want to get a lot of input is a great place to do it. We had over 700 people stop by and talk to us in that that one weekend alone. During that first phase we we popped up at 14 community events, held love and focus groups and hosted two public open houses. We also had a digital online survey that was available for the public. And for those that do not have access to the digital realm, uh we we popped up at community events with hard copies of those surveys to to ensure that we were getting feedback from those that don't live in the online space. That feedback told us what their pri what the community's priorities were, which you can see on the screen. The six categories you see here were what we asked people to prioritize and vote on. In public, they used pompoms and jars. Online, they selected their priorities in a survey. The number one priority we heard from the community was that they wanted a safe and pleasant place for walking and biking. Close behind were a beautiful place known for its lush green space, authentic driven by locals and uniquely ours, and an affordable and

convenient place to raise a family. What you will notice is that the two at the bottom, a destination for tourism and recreation and a job center for commerce and industry were the lowest priorities that we heard from the community. They wanted to focus on their Wilmington. In phase two, we had crafted strategies based on the feedback we received and the priorities that the community identified in phase one. And we asked two questions. Did we get it right? And what's most important to you? So the exercises that you see on the screen were what we brought out to the community. Again, pom poms and jars we found very effective to engage people quickly at a community event and they were asked for each strategy to pick for each theme to pick the most important strategy uh for them. So they didn't they didn't get the option of kind of multitasking. It was each strategy pick each theme pick what is most important. In this in this particular phase, we engaged with over 2,300 people. And here are the priorities they gave us. For local character, the top priority was creating more green spaces and planting more trees. For economy, far and away, the highest priority for the community was improving access to highquality affordable housing. for small business. That was a little bit more even-handed, but improving support for existing business eaked it out with 38% over improving the physical environment within retail areas to attract customers at 35%. And for mobility, making it easier to park once and explore downtown was the top priority that our our community identified during this phase 2 engagement. In phase three, as I mentioned, we brought the plan back to them. We broke it down into bite-sized pieces, literally. I want to thank our very creative staff because I've never seen this done before, but they created menus and what you see some of those menus on the screen. And each each theme created a build your tray option. And so for each strategy, we asked people to pick

what they wanted, what was the number one most important action that they wanted us to pursue. Uh we had over a thousand people participate in this phase with 200 online survey responses. And I do want to note while we had a significant drop in survey responses during phase three, we also asked more of people in phase three. There was not one survey that would take five minutes. We had four surveys, each one dedicated to a specific theme. We asked people to give us open hand o open comments on what they wanted to see, where did we get it right, what were we missing. We attended 19 community events and overall at those events spoke with more than 800 people and we also hosted another open house. And that brings us to o the over 6,300 participants that we had which I can say in my career as a planner is the most engagement I have ever seen in a planning process. And this is where it brings us the vision for the community. And this is I I want to reiterate this is the community's plan. This is not something that staff came up with, that consultants came up with. Everything you see here is based on the feedback that we heard from the residents and business owners in Wilmington. The vision. Greater downtown Wilmington honors its rich history while moving towards a more sustainable future. It's a welcoming and affordable place to live, full of local character and culture with growing opportunities for work and business, all within a walkable and charming urban setting. The themes again came out came out of our engagement. Local character really about protecting what people find unique about Wilmington and what makes it what makes it Wilmington itself. Economy, it's about economic opportunity. It's about affordable places to live and providing opportunities for people to grow in in their jobs and in their lives. small business, growing our small business ecosystem, supporting the businesses that are here, helping new ones get started, and maintaining what is local and authentically Wilmington.

And immobility, just simply making it easier, safer, and more pleasant to get around. The resilience theme is something that came from the community itself. as as our staff and our team held conversations during all the phases of engagement, there was something they kept hearing that wasn't rep wasn't reflected in the strategies and the themes that they were that were being presented and that was how can Wilmington be more resilient to those unanticipated events to environmental events to global pandemics. And as we look as we worked on the resilience theme, what we realized was that if we were successful in implementing the strategies and actions that had been identified for each of the other four themes, we would be a stronger Wilmington. We would be more resilient. We would be more adaptable to those unforeseen circumstances. So resilience is woven in throughout the document. We have uh in on this screen you will see examples of how different actions will help make us more resilient in each of the themes. Moving on to the goals and actions framework. Again to show you how this came from the community. The first thing you will see are the votes that we received on those first six categories of of ideas during during the first phase of engagement. And then the top priority identified in phase two of creating more green spaces and planting more trees which ultimately led us to our phase three. And the reactions that you'll see on the screen, the darker the further to the bar on the left that that heart is, the happier people were with the strategies and actions with which they were presented. The actions that are identified for each strategy are the actions that the community told us were the most important to them and the highest priority for implementation during that phase. So to summarize uh local character, the three strategies we've identified are making public spaces safe, welcoming, and enjoyable, protecting established neighborhoods, and ensuring new

development fits in with the area's historic look and feel, and creating more green spaces, and planting more trees. This this framework identifies the three act the three strategies that I just mentioned. uh you'll see the number of actions that are nested within each of those and the icon that you see is the resilience icon identifying that those specific strategies and actions will specifically help us to become more resilient. One of the things we wanted to highlight moving forward is this plan is very robust. It has a lot of actions that go beyond land use which is your typical the typical things that you see in a policy document. But there are there is a role for the commission past adoption of this and we will be working with you to address some of the the actions that have been identified in the plan for local character. The actions you see on the screen in terms that address protecting established neighborhoods, ensuring ensuring new development fits in with the area's historic look and feel are ones that we will be working with you on closely. One is looking how do we incentivize reusing and rehabilitating older older buildings. two, encouraging new development to improve or enhance the desired character while exist while respecting the existing communities and three guiding bigger and taller development to the northern riverfront area. As you know from the comprehensive plan, Wilmington cannot grow out. Wilmington must grow up. But when we look at most of our neighborhoods in the greater downtown, that is where those edges, those transitions are important and looking at our c our corridors to see how we can accommodate density. But the area where we have the most opportunity because there is not an established neighborhood is the northern riverfront area in which this building is located in terms of directing higher intensity development. The each chapter ends with an illustration that shows you what might be possible in terms of implementing the

various actions. Uh in this case you'll see more green spaces, activities and amenities and parks. How do we make streets more welcoming for a few just to name a few for the economy theme? We started out with that pri that high the two high priorities of authentic being authentic driven by locals and uniquely ours and having an affordable and convenient place to raise a family. Unsurprisingly, 54% of our of the community that participated in our phase 2 engagement identifiing identified improving access to affordable highquality housing as their top priority. In phase three, folks let us know how we did and you will see that the the top strategies and actions that they have identified uh for improving access to affordable high-quality housing. The top priority for the community was just helping people access existing housing programs for encouraging neighborhoods where everyone can meet their everyday needs. It was supporting mixeduse zoning infill and redevelopment. And for using public lands to support community goals, it's using publicly owned properties to meet community needs. And that refers to everything that's identified in the plan and how we can use publicly owned property to help achieve these object the the vision that the community has identified. The three strategies just to summarize are improving access to affordable high-quality housing, encouraging neighborhoods where everyone can meet their everyday needs, and using public land to support community goals. In this particular case, resiliency. If we achieve all of the strategies and actions uh under that are identified under economy, we will be stronger and we will be more resilient to what life throws at us. Uh strategies one and two also uh are particularly suited to improving resiliency in the community. Planning commission collaboration on the economy theme. Uh, a few of the strategies refer directly to our land

development code, such as updating zoning to reduce barriers to missing middle housing, a step that you took in December or started to take in December with the amendment to uh duplex requirements in the R3 district, encouraging new affordable housing and areas of opportunity, and supporting mixeduse zoning, infill, and redevelopment to help uh create neighborhoods where everyone can meet their everyday needs. we wanted to touch on here. We one of these one of the actions uh recommends creating focus area plans that show what's possible to get the community excited. There are five of these plans in the executive summary. Uh this is one example uh for Greenfield at South Fifth Street. And this is this is not a specific redevelopment plan. We are not saying this is going to happen. And some of you may be wondering where that beautiful uh landscape verge uh and multi-use path is because it does not exist today. uh that would be the path of the existing railroad which as you know we have been uh talking about rail realignment for a long time. So this shows that ultimate vision of what is possible uh should that rail realignment happen. And again just another illustration of what something may look like on the ground if we are successful at implementing it. So, a mixeduse building that provides a mix of shops, homes, and services to residents, people there have access to existing housing programs and using public properties uh to meet community needs. For small business, the number one priority we heard during our phase one engagement was that they wanted a place that was authentic, driven by locals, and uniquely ours. to help implement that. Uh the top priority during phase two that was identified was improving the physical environment within retail areas to attract customers. And in terms of the strategies and actions themselves in phase three, again, the community greatly felt that we had achieved and heard what they were looking for with the top priorities being expanding grant programs for

storefront, signage, and art projects, attracting and keeping businesses that offer a range of goods and services, and simplifying the overall process for registering and opening a business. The three strategies that will make up this theme are making business districts more attractive and welcoming, supporting existing businesses and attracting new ones, and making local rules and processes more businessfriendly. Again, resilience. If we accomplish all of the strategies and actions in this theme, we will be stronger. Uh, and in particular, strategy 3.2 and its associated actions of supporting existing businesses and attracting new ones. Items on which we expect to collaborate with the planning commission for small business include encouraging local zoning regulations that support local makers and artists and ensuring that regulations make it easy to test new business ideas. And again, the illustration showing what this may look like on the ground, including an improved pedestrian experience with clean, vibrant streets, grant programs for business improvements like si signage and art projects that will go towards improving the the the retail experience in many of our neighborhoods. And last but not least, we have mobility where again, if you remember, the top priority that came out of our phase one was a safe and pleasant place for walking and biking. uh that translated into making it easier to park once and get get around down greater downtown uh at 33% for phase two and and perhaps the strongest show of support for the strategies and actions that were identified uh from the community. The three priorities are building priority sidewalk and crossing projects from the 2023 Walk Wilmington plan, designing and building the downtown trail, and upgrading key streets for safer walking and biking. So, in in summary, the three strategies for mobility are making streets safe and

accessible for everyone, building a connected trail network for walking and biking across greater downtown, and making it easier to get around greater downtown without a car. Again, we will be stronger and more resilient if we are able to accomplish all of these strategies and actions. And collaboration with the commission for this theme is going to focus on reconnecting streets and sidewalks through redevelopment. So, if you think about some of the larger developments uh in greater downtown, I'll use Hillrest as an example where we lost our traditional grid street pattern when those properties were developed. As as those projects come in for redevelopment, it gives us an opportunity to reconnect those neighborhoods and build restore connections that were lost previously lost. Uh and again one one more illustration for you that shows examples such as uh extending curb doing curb extensions to calm traffic asphalt art uh to also serve as a trafficcoming measure and highlight our uh crosswalk areas and all both of those and quite frankly many of the things that you see on the screen all really work towards one major goal that the city identified in September 2025 and that is working to eliminate fatalities and uh that is part of the vision zero project and the council has identified a goal of eliminating all tra fatalities and serious injuries from traffic accidents by 2036. And I want to end this uh this section. I will tell you this f this focus area is in the executive summary. It is not in mobility. Uh that's actually through conversations we had with the uh you all back in uh the fall of 2025 where one of the comments we got was that by having it in mobility, it was buried. it just wasn't didn't seem like it was given the importance uh that it needed to have given the impact this project will have on our community. I think everyone is aware that uh the bridge has been talked about for replacement for many many

years and it now looks like it's moving forward and the it has been identified that we need 135 ft vertical clearance to make this happen. that 135 foot vertical clearance has the potential uh based on the drawings that we have seen from DOT to have significant impacts on greater downtown. And so the recommendation in the plan uh based on the feedback we heard from the community is to advocate that uh as the bridge is designed, we consider any potential design characteristics, including a movable span that would allow the bridge to maintain its current intersections with South Third Street. that we avoid destruction of historic homes and blocks to the maximum extent possible, that we incorporate aesthetic considerations to maintain the bridgeg's status as an icon for Wilmington and the Capefir region. And last but not least, building on the the desire for more mobility options to make sure that walking, biking, and safe connections are part of the design, providing connections both to the battleship North Carolina and to Brunswick County. Chapter three, implementing the plan, as I mentioned, is our game plan for completing the actions that have been identified. It provides a an identification of potential partners that the city could work with both in terms of internal city departments as well as external partners. It identifies projected time frames uh and what I'm going to call cost magnitude. So there are no I cannot tell you that $1 sign represents a specific amount of money because it's really based on the type of action that we're talking about and the types of budgets that departments that we be implementing these deal with. It also let identifies where that each action falls in terms of the community priorities that we received in phase three of engagement. And for reference, one clock is one to two years, two clocks is three to five years, three clocks is five to 10 years. And the uh rotating arrows means that is just an ongoing uh action for us. It

does not have a time frame. And with that, I am open for questions. Thank you, Miss Painter. We'll start down here. Commissioner Kofheer. Thank you, Mr. Chair and M. Painter. Um my only question I did not want to interrupt you during the presentation but could you go back to the planning commission action items under um small business I guess under the economy or yeah the marine one small business or economy. No that's good. This is it. Sorry small business. Um that was really my only question. I just wanted to look that over. Thank you.

Yep. Commissioner Adams, Linda, you talked about during the engagement period, um, it was really focused on community kind of engagement with residents. When you look at the matrix of the partners around implementation, how much engagement did you have with what you were considering the partner organizations as opposed to just the public? So, I think I and I'm going to turn to my team here. I believe a lot of them were actually represented on the implement on the steering committee itself in terms of external partners and focus groups. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you, Commissioner Pollock. You might want to sit down. This could be long. I have a lot of questions. Okay. Um, first of all, um, as somebody who's done planning

for 41 years, please don't advertise this as a plan. This is a statement of aspirations. It's a strategy, but it is not a plan. It'll become a plan when you come back to planning commission with a and I'll pick the one that's up here on right now where it says encourage zoning regulations. when that has become an actionable item with a start date and a stop date and there's a cost estimate, that's when it becomes a plan. So, it's a matter of semantics, but I'm just I'm just saying I you know, I would you know, if if if a member council asked me what I thought about the plan, I would say it's not a plan. And that's not negative. It's how it's how you present the thing. Okay. Um, number two, and I think the question was raised, you know, Commissioner Kofer asked Young, show me the statement. Let's look at this chart here where it says planning commission collaboration. I would expect that to be a a fundamental piece of any plan developed. That's just my personal expectation. My peers may have a different opinion, but I'm just giving you my feedback. Um the third thing is you talk a lot throughout this about affordable housing, housing affordability. I would just and I this is not new news. I I would stress I I can't emphasize this enough that the city comes up with 25 words or less. What is affordable housing? Because I I would tell you, you've got a pretty sizable amount of 120ome,000 people out there that have no idea what you're talking about. That's not a negative. I'm just asking you to be more precise in what that definition is. Okay. Um, the fourth thing is you've got in this document, in this statement of aspirations, you've got a a

visual of of uh, and this is what I'm looking at is that what Oops. What defines downtown? Okay. My question to you, Linda, is how how much of the population of Wilmington resides in that definition of downtown versus the total population of Wilmington? And the reason I asked the question is because ultimately this is going to become a costbenefit discussion about what you put together as a plan, an executable, definable, executable plan. And you're going to be asking the city council for budget money. I I mean, let's just be candid and that's fact of life. I get it. Not debating that. But you're going to be asking for a lot more than those residents that live in in that definition of downtown that live outside of that that are part of the city of Wilmington and pay city taxes. You're going to ask them to to to pony up and pay taxes. And it kind of goes back to I think what Commissioner Adams was asking is how did you engage those other folks? You know, you Danny, you talked about the part other partners. I'm talking about the the your your customers, the citizens. So, it's just I'm I'm I don't expect if you can't answer it here, that's fine. But I'd really look for that to be able to be answered before you take this to city council

because if it's and I'm going to make it up for sake of argument. If we're talking about 25% of the total population, I understand the wants, needs, desires. you need to make sure that that's resonant in in my hypothetical in the other 75% because you're going to be asking for them to pay for it. And and I guess the last thing I would ask, and I may have missed it in here, so if I did, please, you know, point here. One of the things that's always been a a bugaboo of mine since I've moved here is we talk about mobility. We talk about I mean, I love the statements about, you know, you drive down, you park your car once and that's all you need to do. Is there a mobility plan that includes rail? And I don't mean trains. I'm talking about I'll give you the example that I use. You go up to the city of Norfolk because you guys talk about a lot of different, you know, cities that you've looked at and and you know, you can get on in in the deepest suburb. You can get on a a twocar, two pass, two rail car, mini rail car car, walk a block from a house, walk, get on that and in 20 minutes be from in the outer suburbs to literally right what we would equate here right down to market in front and that thing runs 247. So is there any I I mean I don't hear it at the county level. You know, everybody talks about it but I but I don't hear it. I mean, can you can you get from here to Ritsville Beach by some semblance of public transport? Those are things when you talk about mobility, I'd ask you to, you know, flush out more or if it's in here, point, you know, afterwards point me to where it where it needs to be. And I guess the and I promise the last question is what did we pay the consultant to develop this strategy or this this document of aspirations? because it's a be it's a beautiful document, but I I'm just curious what

what did we pay for it? Okay. All right. I'm gonna go back to number one. Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah.

So, I I think in terms of and I can't speak to the private sector in terms of when we call something a plan, if you look at the comprehensive plan, neighborhood plans, this is this is what they look like. They they are not and again, as I mentioned previously, there's different levels in terms of the level of detail you get into. when you get to implementing each of those actions that we've identified, this is kind of the higher level like here are the things we need to do. But then for example, take the finishing the downtown trail. That's where you get into the very specific logistics of okay, here's where this trail is situated. This is the estimated cost for this as we're doing design. We're just not at that level of detail yet.

And and and I I I respect that. I I you and I are in lock step on that. I'm just I'm just saying whether it's the private sector or not or you know or the public sector a plan is a plan and aspiration is an aspiration and I and I realize I'm treading on the nomenclature of the of the city a little bit and I apologize anybody's feathers I'm ruffling but it's you know a plan says I got a definable start stop date I have a cost estimate I here are my that's a plan and it's so if I look at this there's really nothing executable is this a foundation to get there. Absolutely. But present it as such. That's all I'm suggesting.

All right. And planning commission collaboration. Yes. Like as I said that the reason we highlighted these are there are very specific actions we're going to be working with you on moving forwards. Uh in terms of housing affordability, um I think we have we've talked about this previously. It's typically um and we also I think I've heard the words attain the term attainable housing recently but it's typically it's essentially the technical term you are spending no more than 30% of your income on housing that that's that is what is generally considered to be affordable. Um, so if we need to if we need to focus on that and add a definition, but that that's typically what is understood to be and let's affordable

and you know what, let's let's collaborate on that because maybe what I'm suggesting is and I would you know if if if I was in your chair and this was the city council, I'd say the same thing is develop a more digestible definition for the for the average person because I get it. We all, you know, we, you guys, you, we all play in that sandbox to what degree trying to figure it out. It's trying to get the the buy in and the hearts and minds of everybody else there. So, be happy to work with you on that, but it's and it's not easy, Linda. Trust me, I I get it. Not an easy topic to put a fence around. I get it. Affordable housing is 60% of AMI. You can spell out AMI,

but but Livian, my my point, I'm just I'm just making a point. You can disagree with me and that's fine. The only point I'm making is I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just explaining what affordable housing is. I I I know and I you've given me the mathematical definition, but I'm giving I'm just saying that the average person out there doesn't understand that and we need to help them with that. I'm just saying I don't I don't debate the need. I'm debating how we make the sale. So that's that's where I'm at. So

in terms of engagement of the greater population. So one of the things I will say is in particularly during if you think about start kicking this off at the Aelia festival you get a lot of people who are not just living in greater downtown. We got that we got the whole community and every time we pushed this out it was to the whole community and I believe in our engagement report we actually identify where we could particularly with surveys um in phase one and phase two we ask people where they generally where they lived. So we do break down the feedback we got from the entire from people outside of greater downtown versus what we received from people inside greater downtown. Could you could you send that to me because I remember asking Travis for that and and I got and I got the you know 12 heads stare. So if you have that data that'd be great. I'd love to see it.

Yeah. Now we we as I said we've we've broken that down. It's harder with the inperson events where you can see we we talked with hundreds of people. We did not ask them when they were standing at a table in front of us at an event where where are you from? But on those surveys, particularly in the beginning, we were asking because we wanted to understand the feedback that we were getting from people who lived in greater downtown versus people from outside. And and one of the reasons for that is quite frankly downtown is a neighborhood that really is enjoyed and used by everybody. And so understanding that, you know, they

okay, but it it's it's something that a lot a lot of people come down, they use the Riverwalk. So understanding that there is more interest in in downtown particularly the core of downtown um that we understand there's communitywide interest in that. So we there was never a point where we said oh you don't live downtown you can't participate. It was it was open to all

and and and that's kind of the point but the total point is um God how do I want to say this? The total point is right. Not everybody lives downtown. As you've advertised in this statement of aspirations, you know, the, you know, downtown, you know, looking for this kind of a downtown, that kind of a downtown. I'm just I'm trying to help you sell it. That's that's where I'm going with this. And it's just how do you make it meaningful to the person that lives out, you know, 30th Street, that lives out at, you know, Kerr Avenue? How do you how do you make how do you make this relevant to them? Because ultimately, you're going to ask them to pony up tax money. I get it. It's just how do we make that sale? How do we make it relevant to them so that this doesn't become a barrier to not coming downtown? And again, it's not just for people that live downtown. It's for people that come down, spend money, and then go home.

Correct. So, it's it's it's so I'm just I'm trying to think out loud how we tried to sell this. Okay. Um, and in terms of mo a mobility plan that includes rail. So, I will tell you our current comprehensive plan references the idea of restoring the trolley line out to Writesville Beach. Like that that's been a vision that the city has had for a very long time. When it comes to transit, a lot of the kind I would kind call it the larger scale planning happens at the regional level. Um, I do not believe that I think you're talking about a light more of a light rail system.

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And so I don't light rail I do not believe is in the metropolitan transportation plan that is updated every 5 years. And part of that is to get to light rail you need you really need to have a density. You need population density. You need routes that work. Uh and the precursor to light rail is typically a robust trans transit system which we are still building. So it it's I think everybody would agree that light rail would be great but in order to support light rail you need a lot more density particularly along corridors so that people can have the opportunity to take that train and get off and be able to walk to wherever they need to be. So um and last did we pay the consultant? I will have to go back and check but I believe it was the budget for this was 350,000.

Interesting. Okay, Linda. Thank you. Linda, no questions. I I'm impressed uh uh by the report. Obvious people hours that went into this. Um I'm no expert on anything. I love Wilmington. I've been here for 50 years. Anything you can make it better is great. U but my goal is just to see the implementmentation of this whatever you want to call it study plan. Uh there's a lot there. I don't even know how in my tenure here if that lasts or my lifetime is going to see it, but good luck. Commissioner Jones.

Um, yeah. The only question I have is in our packet that we received attachment. Um, it had in there the grocery stores and pharmacy and I didn't see that mentioned in here, but is that a priority? Um so there are multiple actions in the plan that talk that talk about um the need for particularly food security in a grocery store. So one of the actions is I believe uh thank you Hillary making it easier to find and afford fresh and healthy food. And I know the narrative under that specifically speaks to the need for a downtown grocery store and I think

using public lands to meet community needs. So that's that's another place where potentially looking at grocery stores um on public property is identified. In terms ofarmacies, I don't think it was specific. It's more in terms of areas where people can meet their everyday needs. And that idea of being able to live in a neighborhood and have those services, food, medication, medical services, employment within close proximity that you can get to easily. Thank you. Yep. It's not that bad.

Um, why is the 1945 limit so important?

So, that's actually something that we So, we use that for a lot of things in our code. And I may ask Mr. Chambers to help me with this because he's been here tw's been here 20 years and has more background, but it it's one of those distinguishing distinguishing features. It is our traditional downtown grided network. Um we we have certain districts you can use such as the UMX that is now only in that that downtown area. We don't allow them outside the greater downtown. In terms of why it was selected for this plan that happened before I arrived here and it was it was what council said was do a plan for the greater downtown. So and that was the 1945 corporate limits.

Okay. Um, and I apologize because I the first thing I meant to say was two things. Um, y'all should be proud as hell because a lot of work went into this. Um, to get feedback from 6,100 people is pretty amazing. So, thank you for that. Appreciate it. Um, one thing was, and this is a silly question, but was there a distinction between city residents and non- city residents during all this? Um, I think again if they if they if they answered that question on the on the dig on the surveys where we asked where are you in greater downtown are you and Haley is kindly going to bring that up for me to actually look at. Um, so survey respondents in phase one 41% identified as being city of Wilmington residents 24% identified as being greater downtown residents. 22% said they lived in New Hover County. 4% Pender County, uh 5% Brunswick County, and 2% other. Uh in phase two, it was 44% uh identified as being city of Wilmington residents, 26% identified as being greater downtown residents, 20% New Hover County, uh 2% Pender County, 6% Brunswick County, and 2% other. So overall it was about 43% uh of just being city residents, 25% were lived in greater downtown and about 21% lived in New Hmer County.

And I guess the only reason I'm bringing that up is is I mean I think the information is good. It's just if I don't live in the city, it's very easy for me to tell the city how I think they should spend their money. Um, so I don't know if that can be seasoned or accounted for in in some of the assumptions and actions, but I think it's excuse me, I think it's relevant. Um, how many parks are there in the study area currently? That is not something I know off the top of my head. The reason I the reason I asked the question is because 28 28 Thank you, Haley.

Okay, so the reason I asked the question is because one of the assumptions in here, excuse me, or statements were was to use publicly owned property to help achieve goals. So, I read that into turning city-owned property into parks and and there I start bumping up against policy decisions because I'm assuming that the people who make the policy have got intentions for that to deal with other policy decisions that have been made in the past, if that makes sense. Uh, in other words, you can't turn it into a park if you need to sell it to pay off other obligations. it. And what I will say is one of the things that we put under that using city properties to meet community needs was we did we specifically included language that said and sometimes community needs may mean we need to sell the property for revenue generation. So that that is included as one of those needs. It can also be needs such as affordable housing. It it's it can be mo do we need to work on mobility? So I would not say it's limited to parks. It's really about using city properties to help achieve the community's priorities.

Okay. Um, are there any areas of this that you feel contradict or bump up against current zoning as it stands now? not not in terms of that not in terms of taking current zoning and adapting it to help conform to some of the objectives here but where it would d be in direct conflict.

I don't see any direct conflicts. I think again it's more about how how can we m make things better. Um and again those those will be policy decisions you know but many of the the zoning regulation comments uh that we identified in the plan uh talk about missing middle housing which is a project we've already we've already started the city the city is kind of going down that path and we started it in 2021 when we loosened restrictions for missing middle housing in many districts. We're going to we continued that in December of 2025 and we're going to continue to take steps along that path recognizing that that is a way that we can accommodate new housing that we can address hopefully some affordability by making it easier to do those things. Um some of the things that uh in terms of businesses that we have heard of and that that were identified by our consultant in the community is posing some barriers. One of them is mobile food units. That is going to be a that's a tough policy decision. And so I probably should use the non-technical term for that which is food trucks. Um but my understanding from when our food truck regulations were adopted was that it was it's a balancing act because you have new entrepreneurs that are looking for a way to kind of test out that business idea in a way that doesn't require them to have a full-blown brickandmortar space for eatin dining. They do have to have a commissary where they're preparing that food, but that's a very different economic situation in terms of that that need versus having a space where customers are coming. But for those brick-and-mortar businesses, food trucks that can now just park on the street and they're not paying the rent is is a competition issue. And so this is going to continue to be a balance as we look to refine this to say how do we support new businesses and those businesses growing while at the same time not doing something that's going to irretrievably harm the existing businesses that are there. But one of the things we have seen is that people who start in food trucks as they grow

successful many of them will eventually transition to a brickandmortar restaurant. And so the food truck is their that's their like easy entry way of testing out is my food good enough to make it. Can I can I do this at and it's a lower it's a lower price point entry for them. So that's a perfect segue because one of the one of the hot button words that got me in this was authentic. What does that mean? I mean can you can you rattle off 10 restaurants that have been in downtown Wilmington for more than 20 years? Me personally, no. because I've only been here for three and a half, so I cannot do that. I mean,

um, I I'm I'm I'm not asking you to answer that, but I think the point is I don't know what that means, and I particularly respectfully I don't know what it means when only 43% of the respondents actually live in the city and pay taxes. So, I'm g I'm going to try and answer this and I'm going to ask my team who is who's here tonight because they had the conversations uh with the community and feel free to come up and use a microphone. But I think a lot of it was about being truly local. They not being the national chain, not being, you know, the Starbucks coffee, but being truly local and something something and I'm getting the thumbs up that I got that I got it.

Okay. So, so let's go there for a sec. How many people in this room were born here? Okay. Um, and and I'm I'm not I'm not trying to poke holes. I'm just saying from a planning standpoint, one of the things I wrote down here was policy versus aspirations and reality versus aspirations.

And then also, how do you balance these aspirations with market conditions? I mean, there's not a grocery store downtown for a reason, and it has nothing to do with anything that council or the planning commission or any planning staff tried to hinder. It's the market. And so that's I there's got to be flexibility there for that. And so words like authentic, words like historic nature, historic look and feel, those are buzzwords to me for don't do anything. Um, and and I think and that's just my opinion, but I think from a planning standpoint, that's not what the numbers show us. That's not what history has shown us with the way we've grown as a as a city. So, I would just ask for some caution there. Um, the other comment I'll make about the way this was couched as a a neighborhood plan in in my 30-year real estate experience here, these neighborhood and small area plans ultimately become nothing more than regulatory nightmares for someone trying to do something within that area. And so I just want to make sure that that's not the direction this is going. Um I mean if if these aspirations are really and and instead of affordable and workforce how about we just say housing supply like so we need more supply of housing. So in order to encourage that some things are going to have to change in order to create more parks. Some things are going to have to change. So I just I want to make sure this isn't a we're not being handcuffed by this.

Well I think one of the things it it is a policy document. It is it is a policy document like the comprehensive plan as a policy document. When we do resoning when we evaluate resonings for you today, if the proposed resoning is located in an area that's covered by a neighborhood plan, we will give you an assessment of how how does is this consistent with the the plan policies, the relevant plan policies. It's not regulatory. The again, it's a policy document. It's a guidance document and that we're going to give you and you're going to just like you do with the comprehensive plan. you're balancing those different policies with with every application that comes before you. Um, I will say and I that we I know of at least one neighborhood plan where I would agree they can become challenges and I think some of it is also helping the community understand what the plan is and what it isn't because I know of at least one where it identified I'm going to call it preferred design for homes um in terms of locations of garages and things of that nature. And every time a house gets built that is not consistent with the neighborhood preference, we tend to get an email or a phone call saying, "How did you permit that?" And our react our response is because we have to because

please don't bring up covered porches. Because the the state of the state of North Carolina does not allow us to say that we, you know, we we don't have that design control over houses, but it's it it's managing expectations and and that's something that we need to do all continuously. And then I think um last two things um one is the on the planning commission involvement um the one that's on the screen we can't really ensure that regulations make it easy because we don't make the regulations. So I think I think from the standpoint of a of an advisory and a recommending body I think this exercise tonight for me is good. I think the exercise that we went through

when you met with us um when this first came out I think was good. Um but I I I don't know how much we can do other than advise you and that is but that is your role and that's where you know that's where that's where you come in just like when you know we the second item on the agenda tonight is land development code amendments that we work you know we presented to you in a work session had conversations about those and that's really where your role is going to be coming in is as we work on changes to regulation land development code requirements to help implement this plan is working with you through that process um and helping to refine sign those proposals before they go move forward to city council.

Um, and then I know I said two things, one question and then a wrap up. The I'm curious why there was a slide added about the bridge. So, the bridge was added because one of the members when we tal when we talked about this early on thought it had been lost in our mobility section. So, it was it was a to call it was to call that out and say we recognize that that is that is important. Um, and that was something that was in the plan previously, but it was an action under mobility and it the feedback we got was that it wasn't given enough importance and it wasn't wasn't made enough of a focus. So, we moved that to the executive summary.

Okay. Can you go back to the bridge slide? Sure, please. My struggle here is that this bridge is a regional need.

It's not a downtown need. And so I I mean I feel strongly about this enough that I would probably vote against recommending this just because of the inclusion of this because I Okay, you do say avoid. Um but I do not want to make this about the bridge. I want to make this about the downtown plan. So um that's Anything else about that?

This again, yeah, the one thing I'll say is this is about what we heard from the community. We are we are representing what we heard from the community and we ag we understand and we agree that the bridge is a regional asset. It's a regional need, but we're also looking at the the potential impacts of this on downtown and trying to say as we're doing this, this is we're saying advocate advocate for choices. Advocate for options that will reduce the impacts on downtown. We're not saying don't replace the bridge. We're saying advocate for things that will will make this better and make it better for the city.

Okay. Um, and then my last is this just purely a comment, but it's kind of when I met with you and Mr. Chambers in reading through this, and this is just for anybody who's listening that is actually going to end up voting on this, the quickest way to achieve some of the goals pointed out here is to fill up the police department and go paint some new crosswalks because that was the majority of the things that came out to me in reading it. Um, and so I but in all seriousness, I think that would have the greatest impact most quickly um, based on a lot of the comments that I saw. So, all right. Any other questions from I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. Could you repeat those two things? I couldn't quite hear what you said.

Um, have a full police department with adequate coverage downtown and paint more crosswalks. Paint more crosswalks. Yeah. because one of the things were pedestrian bike, the the desire to reduce fatalities, um I think all those things and then public safety was another thing to when I read it that resonated to me throughout the report. Any other questions from the commission? Commissioner Pollock.

Yeah, I just John, I just want to actually support what you were saying about the bridge. uh even to the point that I would almost say, you know, I I would vote to move this forward with asking to consider some of the, you know, semantic changes that I recommended, but I would even suggest taking the bridge out of this. And I'll tell you why. If you go back to your bridge slide, you know, I could make a point and I think make a pretty salient point that says um you know, consider any potential design characteristics. movable spend that would allow the bridge to maintain its current intersections, incorporate aesthetic consideration. I I those are all aspirational things and from a group of people that live in a certain part of town. I get it. Being a regional project, there's going to be and using my hypothetical earlier, there's 75% of the people of Wilmington are build the damn bridge. This is all interesting, but build the damn bridge. you know, that's and so I think that's a discussion because it's a regional thing and I and I agree with John. I think this is a regional discussion. I would strongly suggest, Linda, Dennis, I would strongly suggest pulling this thing out of this and making the point to council why, you know, if if my peers agreed that's fine, but my opinion would be to pull that out of here because it's a separate discussion.

Commissioner Adams. I mean, I couldn't dis disagree more with with that sort of premise. I mean, the bridge is coming. There will be a replacement bridge.

But if we don't highlight how we need to be thinking about its implications on where it lands in downtown, we're making a mistake, right? Because I don't think anyone here doubts that the bridge won't happen at some point. But if we don't shine some focus and awareness around how it impacts downtown and we just stick our head in the sand, we won't like the results. I if I would just conceptually I agree with that. I think that the my concern is that really what we want my my way of saying what you just said is a seat at the table in the discussion about everything from cost to location to impacts. Um okay then say just say something like that. Um because I I think there's there is not a good history of public opposition to the bridge. It's it's never ended well. I mean because we we've we've potentially lost funding in some ca it didn't get to that point. So I think to to me this is not the ideal opportunity to make a a policy statement about the bridge as it is about a downtown plan. If being an active stakeholder in the discussions about the bridge and its construction and its impact is important and relevant, I'm all about that. Um, I agree with Danny. Um, it empties into downtown. The where it's going to be redesigned is downtown. And we talk about it being regional, but the people, if you look at who shops downtown, eats downtown, it's mostly Leland, but there's a lot of people coming over that bridge that

services our economy downtown. So, that's where I stand with it, and it highlights that we need it. Commissioner Cover, um, just one question on this. So um just one slide on the bridge and the whole plan and when was this introduced? Uh when was this kind of this page inserted?

So this page came I believe after the October draft but the language the the language in terms of the priorities was in the October draft. It was just in a different section. It was under I believe mo mobility. They're shaking their heads. I know it was in a different place at one point. I've read a lot of drafts of this plan. Let me just say that. Yes. Okay. So, so it was in the public draft in October. So, that would have been the first time that was this page was introduced. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Anybody else?

Slightly longer than five minutes, but thank you. And if I may, I just I do want to do a huge shout out to the team that is here this evening because none of this would have been possible without them. And also to Travis Henley who really wanted to be here. I think that was one of his big disappointments in moving to Virginia was that he was going to miss this because this has been his project um since he got here. So, thank you very much to everyone. Yeah, I would just reiterate um you know, you you don't hear unanimous agreement up here about many things, but I think we all agree you all did a fantastic job and uh the public engagement was phenomenal. So, thank you very much. You gave us a lot to talk about. You gave everybody a lot to talk about. So, thank you. Um with that being said, I I am having a public hearing about this, correct? Yes. Um, we will now open the public hearing and invite forward anyone wishing to speak in favor of the implementation of the downtown plan. If you please state your name.

Isn't there a way to move this thing? Just make sure I can see you. There is. It's above my pay grade, but I know you can. It's down below your left hand. Ah, I see it there. Now you can see me. All right.

Um, good evening. Uh, Mr. Chairman and members of the commission, I'm Natalie English, president and CEO of the Greater Wilmington Chamber of Commerce. I'm also a citizen of Wilmington. I'd like to commend the staff, as you all have, for the time and the effort that they put in to reach so many people in developing this document. Uh, in particular, Linda and Travis were amazing. They they uh met with us in in particular at the chamber with members. um they've been accessible all along the way uh to ensure that there was a lot of engagement, right? And we I think we all agree there and I think as a as this guiding document, it it's great at that 40,000 foot level and view and I'm I'm excited about some of the things that have come out. Uh and I I know that the that a document like this is to guide future decisions um whether they be policy or investment or zoning decisions. I would like to while I support the plan and want to commend all that work, I also want to just call attention to a couple of things as as we move forward with it. And that is that we need to be sure we do get into the weeds in some of the cases, right? The plan talks um sounds a lot like a a community uh a neighborhood, right? And I don't know that everyone considers our central business district a neighborhood. It's an area certainly. And so I was horribly frustrated every time I went to the website and saw that creating jobs in business was always the last thing on the list because if we don't have jobs in business, then people don't have money. They can't maintain their homes or find affordable or any other kind of housing. And so that frustrated me every single time. In fact, I filled out the survey multiple times to try to get it up more. I'm I'm just being honest there uh because that is frustrating. And so I think that we need to pay special attention that we're already at a maximum um or pretty close to uh maximum

occupancy rate in our class A office space. We do need housing downtown, but to your point, Commissioner Pollock, affordable, I think it's I think it's all housing as Commissioner Lennon said. So maintaining that. I also um uh just want to express a little bit of concern around the focus only on the northern riverfront for taller buildings. I think there are other spaces specifically along Third Street and other potential rehabs or other other pieces of property in our downtown area, our CBD that could also be tall without negatively impacting our historic district. And so again, um you know, our central business district is the economic center of the entire region, not just of Wilmington or New Hmer County. And so I hope that we maintain that focus and ensure that we don't do anything that changes that. Um, as it relates to the Capefir Memorial Bridge, I don't think anybody, it's a secret to anybody that I'm the squeakiest wheel in the house on that u on that project. It is going to happen. Do we care how it impacts this side of the river? Absolutely. But to your point, Mr. chairman, we lost the opportunity to build two bridges because one side or the other started asking too many questions and expecting too many things. And so a seat at the table, Danny, absolut sorry, commissioner at the table. Absolutely. Uh but not to the extent that the state and others say they can't get their act together down there. We're going to move this money to another project. This we cannot fail on this bridge replacement. And so I would just say our our CBT needs to remain that economic center for southeastern North Carolina. And we just those are the things I'd like to ask that you pay attention to as you consider future decisions that relate back to the plan. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Anyone else wishing to speak in favor?

Hello. Christina Haley, president and CEO of Wilmington Downtown Incorporated. It's a pleasure to be with you guys with you all this evening. Um I sat on the greater downtown area steering committee um and have been pretty much uh in every step and facet of this project with this wonderful planning group. I cannot say enough about their work and their unique approaches to getting community input. obviously by the the over 6,000 community inputs uh that they've had there. There's a lot that went into this and I and I feel that this is a true community framework in how our our region wishes to see the downtown area grow and and thrive. Um there were a couple of uh initiatives in the plan and I I'll echo uh Natalie's sentiment on focusing still on the central business district. There's a north uh there's a north focus area plan um that I I would like to see more of how we're going to bring that connectivity between the central business south central business district south end with our north end district. I do not want our our we there's a ton of work to h to take place in the downtown core. Uh we have various infill projects some slated to break ground this year. Um others that are are still still to come with with future investments. Um, we need to keep an eye on the uh on the the historic structures of downtown to make sure that they will last uh another 50 to 100 years and make sure these properties are stabilized and safe for the community to be around. Um so so that that's one focus of this of this plan that that I hope will be um uh molded and shaped on as as we as we move forward. Um in addition, why should the greater community care about this plan? Um, even if you don't step foot in the central business district of of Wilmington,

we're at, according to the 2025 property tax value, we're at 1.18 million. That's over three million in city taxes. It's over three million in New Hmer County taxes, and that's over uh it's about $591,000 in municipal services district funds. Um, that's not including sales tax. That's not including the the business and property uh personal property tax. That's not including our room occupancy tax. We have quite a few hotels downtown. So, this area contributes a significant amount of tax revenue for the city of Wilmington that once this area plan gets this framework gets implemented, these areas of the community will help eventually offset the residential the largely residential areas their their tax bases as well. Um, so just th those comments I hope you'll take it in consideration and I appreciate all of your comments on this plan this evening. Thank you for your time. Thank you very much. Anyone else wishing to speak in favor? Anyone wishing to speak in opposition? Going once. Going twice. All right, we will now close the public hearing. And we started down there the last time. We'll start. Commissioner Jones, do you have any thoughts before we Commissioner Woodruff? Commissioner Pollock.

Yeah, Ju just briefly and I I want I direct this to the staff. Um my comments tonight are nothing more than trying to keep forcing us all to think outside the box. You know, ask ourselves the hard questions that we think if we were presenting this to somebody, what somebody might ask. So, please take these comments as as intended to be positive, not critical, but it's just years of experience tell me that somebody's going to ask these questions. And if any one of you were or any one of us were singularly standing at that podium and presenting this, we ought to, you know, to make sure that we have as many of the answers that we have tried to anticipate as many of the questions that could be asked of any one of us, you know, individually or collectively. So, please take my comments in the spirit that they're intended because you guys did an amazing piece of work. I mean, I can't I can't speak enough about that. So, but I just wanted to make that comment.

Thank you, Commissioner Adams. Commissioner Kofheer.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, I do have a couple questions for Miss Painter before I give my summary. Hello, Linda. I think this is really going to apply to page 53 back to the bridge slide and and I I feel I read the plan and I feel that most of it is from the 35,000 foot view and it's not prescriptive and its framework. um th this page though and I'm I'm glad that the chair brought this to our attention. I mean, you know, I just would like a little more feedback on, you know, why we're at 135 ft. You know, it says that the new bridge must be at least 135 ft. Where why is that?

Uh that is from the US Coast Coast Guard and the Army Corps of Engineers. So that is not that's not a DOT decision. And that is a federal decision regarding navigation of the Capefir River and what the height what the vertical clearance needs to be um along the river and and that is a very good response. What about the movable span?

So the movable span is an is an option. So if you think about essentially what the Katefir memorial bridge is today, it's a movable span. It it's a lift bridge. If you look at Isabel Holmes, it is a movable span. And so what has been proposed by DOT has been a fixed span to get to that 135 foot level. The this is basically saying if you consider a movable span, you don't have to have that height which then reduces the ex the distance of the approach uh which is forcing it into that Fifth Avenue right now.

Okay, fantastic. That's great additional context. I really appreciate that. And that's really my only questions for you. Thank you. And while you are up there, I do applaud staff and and Travis who's no longer with us, but everyone's work on this. It's obvious um it took three years. So that's uh that's a lot of moving parts and 6,000 respondents that participated in any um layer of government u whether it be survey level or you know volunteer service like we're doing on the planning commission. It's it's a applauding the citizens who were were a part of that. you guys had to had to be there and go to the places they were at. So, um, thank you. Thank you. Yeah.

Um, and one thing I'll mention to my colleagues on the planning commission, you know, when we were doing the one of the joint, uh, sessions with the city council at the time, uh, council member Barnett mentioned, you know, to please, and I think this was directed to staff, please, you know, make sure you're getting everyone's opinion, you know, not just a select few. Um, of course you're going to have a lot of transients at Aelia Festival, but you know, when you go there's, I think, a 100 plus page supplement to this plan that that's the survey results where the surveys were held. Um, it's obvious that that it was um driven into different segments of the community to make sure everyone's voices were heard in my opinion. So, I think I think again that's um just admirable of of staff and I know it cost a lot. Um, you know, this reminds me a lot of a sharet in a lot of ways. Um, it's not as prescriptive. We're not diving into zoning because I don't think this this plan to me if it's trying to replace vision 2020 and it's trying to link 18 communities, it certainly can't be um, as as one lady mentioned, down in the weeds for every community. That wouldn't make sense. Um, but integrating from the southside to the north side and and and all the different communities in between, we need something even if it's from the 35,000 foot view to sort of set the table for what, you know, is to come, what innovation may may be. What can the city do to um not necessarily influence but but help uh create a a playing field to you know to satisfy all those different user groups in downtown whether it's stakeholders, property owners, visitors, residents, business owners, all those people that you know um that we all integrate with downtown. So, at the end of the day, I mean, I hear where some of the commission is

concerned with this being a policy document. Um, but I believe that it's so broadbrushed specifically, I think it achieves that goal of allowing a lot of discretion, uh, which a lot of our policy documents when you look at them do. I mean, from the from the comp plan to all the small area plans. Um, so I think that's a good thing to have a little bit of flexibility there. And I don't think the government should be too prescriptive when it comes to private property, but you know, laying out the infrastructure, the streets, and creating the third spaces. I think the plan to me screams for a grocery store. I don't know, you know, but as the chair will say, you know, you cannot the city cannot dictate the market. Now, can we create opportunities for public land to potentially be reszoned to I mean, this is a hypothetical to accommodate a grocery store. you know, perhaps that's a city's role in that, but you know, you're you're overreaching in a lot of ways when the city starts trying to, you know, get into what the market forces are going to do. But I do think that this this this is also looking at less of a city of Wilmington and more of a village of downtown and painting a you know, a really nice picture of it. it seems to check pretty much all the boxes without forcing anybody too tight into a box and allowing a lot of flexibility. So, at the end of the day, I I very supportive. Um, it's a plan, Mr. Chambers, to plan is human, but to implement is divine. So, yes, there has to be action items. Yes, I'm glad that this plan talks and calls out planning commission interaction. What are we going to do to try to implement it? You know, that's uh something I didn't see before, so that's new. Um, what are my other little few comments here?

I agree that the bridge is a critical component to downtown. I mean, it's like iconic. So, how we could separate it from downtown would to me not make a lot of sense. Again, I don't want it to be too prescriptive, but I think it's fair to say we don't want it to impact as much. But if you're going to have to replace it, replace it with as less impact as you can. I think that makes sense in a downtown plan. Um, I like the way that you guys pointed out a lot of catalyst sites, jump off sites, and highlighted those. Um, one thing I brought up was the small business piece and how planning commission would have any sort of involvement there. I mean, in my years here, we're mainly talking about zoning, conditional zoning, general resonings, land development code, cleanups, syntax, things of that nature. We rarely, I mean, maybe once or twice have we gotten involved with small anything that in impacts a small business. I So, I don't Is that a different commission? I don't know. Or is that where where do businesses go through because they won't typically come in front of us? So I think your role on that small business piece really is on is on the regulation side and again it the in the plan itself does identify some things that are in the land development code as well as in the city the general city code that are right now causing some barriers to the to those small businesses. And so those are the things we're going to be working on and bringing back to you to say, "Okay, are there things we can do that reduce barriers and reduce that that barrier to entry, particularly for new entrepreneurs, new businesses, people that want to test out ideas but aren't ready for that full-on I'm going to sign a, you know, a three-year lease for this space and go for it."

Okay. Um well, that that makes a lot of sense. And I think that I I did hear Mayor Safo say at the joint meeting, you know, that in his opinion, this replaces vision 2020. That was a plan that began in 2004. When you actually read it, you're like, "Wow, okay, it does need to be replaced. We've pretty much accomplished all those goals, which is, you know, yay, Wilmington." Um, but downtown looks great, significantly dramatically different than it was 20 years ago. And, you know, if this sort of sets the table for the reality 20 years from now, I mean, that's what planning is. And and the implementation part will come along uh with it. So, well done. I don't I don't have any objections here, but thank you.

Um, the entire time you all have been talking, I've reread this bridge thing six times and I'm getting a little bit more comfortable with it, but I would just for consideration in the very first sentence, it says, "Replacing the Katefir memorial bridge is a once- in a generation project that will last for generations." And I think that's where the hardest part about planning is we're thinking about today. And maybe we include our kids in that thought, but we don't think about their kids and beyond. And that's my worry about the bridge even being part of this discussion is because it is a it's it's going to be built to last over a hundred years and none of us will be here. Um, and you know, there's so many nuances in there with the with the movable versus fixed. You know, a movable is so much more expensive to maintain. So much like we didn't want people who live in the county telling the city how to spend its tax dollars. We have a struggle to tell DOT how to spend theirs. So, um, but that being said, I'm I'm in favor of this and would ask what's the will of the commission.

Mr. Chair, I'd like to make a motion.

Please do. Uh in regards to agenda item number one, um adoption of the greater downtown plan as an appendix to the create Wilmington comprehensive plan. This request is reasonable and consistent with the objectives and policies of the following plans adopted by the city of Wilmington. The create Wilmington comprehensive plan planning commission considers its approval to be reasonable and in the public interest because the greater downtown plan is consistent with and helps to implement multiple policies of the create Wilmington comprehensive plan related to placemaking, neighborhood conservation and revitalization, housing options and affordability, economic development and cultural identity, mobility and environmental resiliency. Adoption of this plan will update and replace three previously adopted small area plans. Vision 2020, a waterfront downtown, north side community plan, and Southside small area plan. Therefore, the planning commission recommends approval of this request.

Thank you, Commissioner Adams. We have a motion by Commissioner Adams. Do I have a second? Second. Commissioner Jones is seconded. We will do a roll call. Commissioner Kofheer. Commissioner Adams? Yes. Commissioner Pollock? Yes. Commissioner Woodruff, yes. Commissioner Jones, yes.

Chair votes I. Thank you very much. Uh moving on to the second item on the agenda, the LDC amendments uh to amend the land development code for various amendments and cleanup items related to typographical errors, administrative provisions, flood plane requirements, dimensional requirements for town houses, maximum building height exceptions, and permitted uses in the CBD. And Miss Painter, you are the star again.

I am, and I promise to be much briefer uh this time around. Uh so the where we are in the review process. Uh so as you know that we adopted the land development code in uh I believe June of 2021. It became effective in December of 2021. Uh and over the years we have periodically brought you what we'd call maintenance package of amendments cleanups that we found as we're going through and we're implementing and we go oh we need to we need to fix this. Those have also dramatically slowed down. They used to be quarterly. they are no longer quarterly because thankfully we're not finding as many things that we need to bring to you uh to fix. We did do a work session with you on April 17th uh to go over some of these items. Uh and tonight we are at the public hearing uh for the recommendation. So the first section I'm going to tackle are administrative provisions. Uh the first change uh that we are recommending is to strike language that relates to requiring applicants uh for zoning map amendments that have been denied uh to wait 6 months before refiling the same application. Uh and that is because a state statute has been amended to say that we cannot have those types of waiting periods before resubmission. So quite frankly whether we approved this change or not we would not be forcing an applicant to wait 6 months because the legislature has said we cannot do that. The next change deals with submittal requirements. Uh actually the next few changes deal with submitt requirements and it's really to reflect uh current practice. Uh so for historic preservation we currently require a map showing the subject property and adjacent lots. uh in 2026. Uh we do not need the applicant to tell us where their lot is. As long as they give us an address and a parcel ID number, we can identify where it is and and the surrounding lots. We don't need them to provide that for us. Additionally, um I think a couple of years ago, we switched from having applicants provide addressed and stamped envelopes for the abutter

notices to simply charging a fee for that service. and staff does does the mailing list, sends out the letters, uh, and we charge a fee per notice. So, we just need to update the code to reflect that practice. And so, you'll see that struck from both historic preservation as well as, uh, the zoning map amendment uh, sections. In terms of dimensional requirements, there are two proposed uh, changes. Uh, one deals with town houses in the R seven district. If you look at the table on the right, you will see that uh triplexes and quadriplexes and town houses in every district have the same minimum lot area requirement, 2,000 square feet in R3, 3500 in R5. And then when we get to R seven, we inadvertently omitted the 3500 square ft. Uh so we are proposing to add that back in to to clarify that. And I will note many of the town houses we get um could be considered triplexes or quadriplexes where you can actually divide them. So, we're already applying the 3500 square foot rule. Uh, it's it's not new in that sense. Uh, height exceptions. Uh, one of the things that was brought to our attention is that when you have multi-story buildings with elevators, uh, you typically have elevator rooms or equipment located on the rooftop and that can be a challenge sometimes with our height requirements. So, we are proposing to exempt those. uh and that that type of equipment is similar to if you look at parapit walls are exempt, chimneys, smoke stacks, flu are are exempt um from height requirements. So we believe that is consistent with the other types of impertinances on buildings that are currently exempt from the height height the height maximum height requirements. The next section of amendments uh deal with flood plane management. And these are two items that were identified by uh our uh our staff that have been working as our flood plane administrative staff uh while we worked to fill that position. And as they were reviewing permits, they noticed that there were

some things that really weren't located where they needed to be in terms of the regulations. uh they did confirm check both New Hover County flood plane management requirements as well as the state's model flood plane. The first one deals with how we handle buildings and structures that are either partially located in in a special flood hazard area and partially out of a flood hazard area or if it's located in multi it crosses multiple flood hazard zones. Uh so what you'll see is essentially when you have those situations the standard says the more restrictive requirements shall apply. The problem is is that where it is currently located in our flood plane management regulations, that interpretation of how we apply the regulations only applies in single dwelling residential districts. This is really a general principle of how you re review buildings for compliance with flood plan management. So we are proposing to move that to uh 18-270B uh standards for uh where base flood elevation is provided, which is where we have our general standards that apply across the board. The second change deals with swimming pools and spas. Uh and again I think this was something that they realized uh currently we are applying the provisions that you see on the screen uh 9A through D uh to all swimming pools and spas in any uh flood hazard zone. And I will say I don't know believe that our application has necessarily been consistent and it was brought up by some of our uh swimming pool and spa applicants uh that typically those are only applied when you are in coastal high hazard areas. So a velocity zone and a coastal a zone with limit limit um excuse it limit to moderate wave action. And so the proposal again is to take that out of the section where it's currently located, which is general applying to all special flood hazard areas and moving it to only apply in those coastal high hazard areas. The text that you see in red was actually pointed out um by our reviewer today as

we were preparing for this meeting. Uh the state recently uh provided a new model ordinance for flood plane management and they have added the following language uh regarding uh pools and spas. And so it would we basically would rehap have to reward the introduction to section nine where it says swimming pools and spas shall be designed to withstand all flood related loads and load combinations and b uh to add in kind of tweak that sentence to add in that flotation calculations should assume the pools and spas are empty. Um, so that is not in the case summary you received, but it is something we would recommend doing to be consistent with that model model ordinance that the state puts out. And if you approve, we would we would add that to the ordinance in the case summary for city council's consideration. Uh, and last but not least, typographical errors. We found two of them when we were doing an interpretation. Uh, and unfortunately, we are not allowed to correct those administratively and need to bring those forward to you. So in this in section E under rules of interpretation the proper word in should only have one N not two and uh culdeac is missing a D. So those are the changes that we have for you this evening. Um to summarize, we're looking at amending the administrative provisions to be consistent with state statute uh and consistent with our current practice and how we process applications to correct an inadvertent omission of minimum lot area requirements for town houses in the R seven district and to update height exemptions to allow rooftop elevator rooms. uh to update our flood plane management requirements to be consistent uh with those two provisions um to be consistent with both New Hover County and the state's um model flood plane management regulations and to correct a couple of typographical errors. And with that, uh staff believes the request is reasonable and in the public interest and consistent with relevant policies in the create Wilmington comprehensive plan and recommends approval.

Thank you very much. We'll start let's we'll start down. Commissioner Jones.

Yes. Um, I didn't hear you mention HVAC on the roofs. Is that allowed to in the height requirement or outside the height requirement? I am not seeing that as a current exception. So we have radio and television receiving antennas and supporting structures, utility poles, water towers and associated support structures, chimneys, smoke stacks and flu, wireless telea telecommunic communication facilities and towers, belfreeze, fires, steeples, koopas, parapit walls in green tree, shrubs and other vegetation as part of a green roof. I'm not seeing anything for HVAC equipment.

They're they're arguably not part of the structure. Right. That is correct. staff has not been applying a height standard to that type of equipment. If it's separate from the the height, it's typically screened behind the parapit wall.

Okay. There are certain users that want their air handling equipment inside space and not just sitting on a rooftop. We don't see that very often, but we do run into it from time to time. And in that case, it could be construed a small room that is really functioning like an elevator room, but it's just got HVAC equipment inside of it. I didn't think about that until you brought it up, Livian.

I think we if that's the concern, I think we could amend number seven to say elevator and mechanical equipment room if that suffices. Okay. Anything else?

One more. Um the spy and pool requirement to withstand storms designed to withstand um I don't know the I mean they get dirty. Um the only thing I can think when I've seen one is one float up but you can't control the groundwater. Um so I don't know how that's applicable. I'm gonna see. We have Nicole Smith here this evening who is a certified flood plane manager which I am not and understands more about flood plane regulations in case something more detailed came up.

Good evening. Thank you for the question. I just want to clarify that that is a requirement of the state model ordinance. So that's how it carries over to the land development code. We're allowed to be less restrictive but we are not I'm sorry. We're allowed to be more restrictive but not less restrictive. So that's carryover language from the state.

Good. Commissioner Woodruff, Commissioner Pollock.

Yeah. Two. Can we go back to the to the uh one that Liv originally brought up about the it's got the elevator rooms. Yeah. Uh yeah. Item number one, radio and television receiving antennas shall not be erected to a height greater than 20 feet above the building roof line. So if a gentleman has a a god, I don't you know, I don't know what kind of an antenna it is. Looks like it's a shortwave type of a setup, but it's a standalone antenna in the person's yard. Does the restriction still do you still measure the 20 feet from the height of his top of his roof? How does does that apply here?

That would not be applicable to these standards. That's those are handled separately. We're talking about the height of the structures. So any antenna would have a separate height standard um outside of what we're considering this evening. Okay. So that doesn't fit here. Yes, sir. Okay. The other question I have, Linda, if you go back to the one where it was the uh the six-month waiting period or whatever it was, um obviously we have a

Yeah, I'm sure you're going to talk about them later tonight. Items that passed or failed council and there's a uh there is a uh the waiting period they can if it's denied by council, they can turn right around and reapply. Same exact identical item. Is that considered a new application to them? So that would be a new fee for them. Correct. Okay. All right. Just want to be sure.

New application. It's just that previously you could not submit the same application within 6 months under the language we had in our regulations. So if you remember the Circle K on Dawson Street when it was denied by council, they changed their plan and so to to avoid that six-month delay and came back with what the with the changes from the legislature. No, you do no longer need to change your plan. You can simply refile the same application that was just denied, but it is it is a new application. It is new fees. Got it. Okay. Thanks for the clarification. That's all I had. Thank you, Commissioner Adams.

Very appreciative of you taking some of our time in advance of this to walk us through at a more detailed kind of level. Did you mentioned the the change maybe about the pools? Did anything else sort of change in the review period with us versus this final kind of version?

I think we took some things out that we're just still working on. So there there were some amendments and even if you read it, there were permitted uses in the CBD. We've just pulled that amendment for the time being. We're still working on that and we'll package it with some other things and bring it forward. Um so but the the pools were the only the only change here. And I will say with that new model ordinance, we do have a new flood plane administrator who's going to be starting in the next few months. And so one of their their responsibilities is going to be to go through that entire model ordinance and identify possible inconsistencies that we'll be bringing back. This one was caught because it was literally related to these sections. Commissioner Cover.

Yes. Thank you. Um, Miss Painter, I'll stick with the pools and I'm I don't remember. So, is this in our workshop? We talked about this already.

Yes. Man, I must have been sleeping during this one. Um, I I couldn't read it. So, so A says elevated so that the lowest horizontal structure is above the regulatory flood protection elevation. So, the pool has to be elevated. that contradicts C that it's in the ground. And I understand it's probably a typo of some sort. Like the house I, you know, get we've got to get the structure elevated. We've got to make sure we have breakaway walls, but a pool that's in the ground versus an above ground pool might need some clarification. So again, this language comes directly from the state model ordinance. I'm happy to bring forward these discussion items that we're having this evening for consideration. It it is uh an ordinance that is revisited every 5 to seven years and they did just put out an update. So I expect that they'll be giving additional guidance. It was previously an option for municipalities to put into their ordinance and it is now a requirement. So I'm sure that we're going to receive some additional information regarding how it should be enforced. Usually they provide supplemental documents once it becomes a requirement of the model ordinance. That piece of the puzzle has not yet been released. So I'm happy to report back when we receive that information with regard to how it will impact the regulatory side here.

Um okay. Well, I'm I mean, can we all agree though that the practical side is that we're saying that the swimming pool must be elevated so the lowest horizontal structures above the regulatory throat protection. So typically how it's enforced right now is we would require any mechanical equipment to be located above that regulatory base flood elevation and then we would require a Vzone certificate that requires an architect or an engineer to provide documentation that it will in fact stay in the ground in the event of a significant flooding.

Right. Okay. So I would think then that a would be that makes the syntax of reading the sentence structure would make more sense if it just says mechanical or any you know but the pool itself um that that I think that line needs tweak and if it's coming down from the state so it's not coming from KMA it's coming from like NCGS type stuff right it's from the North Carolina Department of Public Safety specifically the emergency management office is responsible for reviewing this and pushing out information. Um, but I I do see that it says or. So, there's a couple of ways that you could address this potentially and achieve compliance.

Okay. Um, fair enough. I just want to bring that to your attention because you I just don't know if it reads accurately. Um, and it seems to read more specific to an above ground pool. Uh, and then the mechanics of course we do want to keep those out of the flood zone. So, thank you. Um, I'm more confused than ever after reading that. So, thank you for pointing that out. Um, I I don't have any questions. The only comment I was going to make, and this is for the general public, I think it's important that people watching this tonight and saying, "Wait a minute, they just threw eight new things at you and this is it." um staff does have publicly announced meetings and and there was one with the planning commission and and a gracious follow-up meeting with me because I couldn't be at the first one where these all of these were gone into far more in depth. Um and so um I just want to make sure the public's aware that when these amendments and changes occur, a lot of thought first and foremost on the staff's part, but we get involved at more than just this meeting. Um, that being said, what is the wishes of the commission?

Excuse me, Mr. Chair. Were you going to open a public hearing? I don't think there's anybody. Oh, absolutely. I was I just asked if what were the wishes of? Thank you very much. Um, we will now open the public hearing in regards to agenda item number two and ask anyone wishing to speak in favor of agenda item number two to please step forward. Anyone wishing to speak in favor of agenda item number two? Never done that before. Anyone wishing to speak in opposition? Anyone wishing to speak in opposition? Hearing none, we uh Miss Bradshaw, we have no

correct. There were no comments. Thank you. That being said, we will now close the public hearing and I will now again ask what is the wishes of the commission? Commissioner Adams, I'd like to make a motion um to approve agenda item number two, various amendments and cleanup items to the land development code with the proposed modification to the dimensional requirements of item 7 to include include mechanical equipment and elevator rooms.

I second. Just point of point of clarification, does that also include the new language uh proposed that's on the slide in front of you for swimming pools and spas from the state model ordinance that was not in your packet originally? Yes. Thank you. I still second. Very good. It's it's been motioned by Commissioner Adams, seconded by Commissioner Pollock. Commissioner Jones I. Yes. Commissioner Woodruff. Yes. Commissioner Pollock, yes. Commissioner Adams, yes. Commissioner Kofheer, I. Chair votes I. passes unanimously. Thank you very much. What?

Oh, uh, I'm I'm I'm batting a thousand. Commissioner Adams, would you please read the uh rest of the statement? Retroactively, this approval is requested is reasonable and consistent with the objectives and policies. The following plans adopted by the city of Wilmington. The create Wilmington comprehensive plan planning commission considers its approval will be reasonable and in the public interest because the proposed amendments will correct minor errors and correct issues discovered during implementation of the land development code. Thank you. And I do apologize to everybody for missing that. Mr. Attorney, do we need to vote again now that

I think it's been clarified sufficiently. Okay. Thank you, sir. All right. Very well. Um any uh items from the staff? Uh the city council this week did approve uh the land development code amendment for semi-permanent structures. Wonderful. Thank you. Any items from the commission? Commissioner Pollock.

Yeah, two quick ones. Excuse me. one is is as we talked in our last meeting, I wanted to move forward with, you know, the subgroup on on process and whatever and we said we would wait till, you know, personally wait till I got back from vacation. So, I'm back. Uh, probably much to the sugarin of a lot, but I'm back. Um, so Amy, I would ask you to probably, you know, to send out an email, you know, ask, you know, putting out some schedule dates and it would be for uh I think for probably Linda and Brian and whoever they want to bring and then um for Commissioner Jones, myself and Commissioner Collier to get together to start discussion around process and the topic of this discussion was was agreed to be um you know start at the top. How do the what items come to the commission? Why do they come to the commission? What items don't come to the commission? Start just working down. And I suspect that should be a a good discussion given a lot of the org changes that have taken place over the last couple months. So Amy, if you would would do that, I'd appreciate it.

I'll take care of that.

Thank you. Second one is I have a question for for Linda and Brian. I had a I got a call from a from a citizen that wanted wants to understand why and how he and a group of people would bring a proposed um you know land you know land use code change to the table. And the land use code change he wants to bring to the table is not just a recommendation but a hard mandate that says any new residential or commercial building you know from I guess at some point in time has to dedicate a certain percentage of the rooftop to solar panels. So, not a recommendation that says, you know, hey, you might want to do this, but it's a requirement that, you know, that is to pass inspection. I told him I would ask, you know, how somebody would do that. So, I'm asking.

So, uh, we accept applications on a quarterly basis for land development code amendments. Um, I will say with one of the things that I cannot answer tonight is whether or not they can submit an application. Whether or not such application is actually something the city could legally do are two completely separate questions. But if they are interested in applying for a code amendment, we have a process. Um, I believe the next deadline is July. Okay. So, I just want to respond and yeah, they we express I'm expressing no opinion one way or the other. I'm just simply following through on a promise. Okay. So, appreciate.

So, yeah. So, and I for I forget the exact date. It's I think it's the first first Monday in July. Okay. So, and there is a pre-application with staff required. So, have them contact one of us and we will uh sit down with them and talk about the code amendment process. Okay. Thank you very much. Very well. Um, last note, Miss Painter, Mr. Chambers, you're only as good as the team behind you and you have a great team behind you. Congratulations again. Thank you. Do I hear a motion to adjurnn? So move. Second. Second. All in favor? I. Good night.