City Council - Regular Meeting

All right, I will call the meeting to order. Welcome everyone to our Williamsport City Council meeting. It's Thursday, December 4th. We're in Trade Transit 2, third floor. Please rise for the invocation by Councilman Randy Allison, followed by the flag salute. Heavenly Father, we we thank you tonight [clears throat] with grateful hearts as we uh quickly and quietly come to the end of our fiscal year. Um Lord, we pray for your wisdom as always. We pray that you guide us and lead us, Lord. And uh we're grateful tonight, grateful that in our city we're having we're taking part in the holiday season and it's a blessed time and we all enjoy it. But Lord, help us to be mindful tonight. Uh there are so many people that don't have the the abilities and the opportunities that we have and uh a lot of those people are hurting tonight. We pray Lord that that we'll have hearts of compassion uh that we'll look for places [clears throat] Lord and individuals that that need our help that we'll be aware of that and we pray for that blessing upon them this uh holiday season comes to an end that um many will be stronger Lord God and helped along the way and we ask it tonight in Jesus name. Amen.

Amen. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. They're usually reversed. To the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. For the record, they are usually reversed and they're and and they've been that reversed for the six years that I've been on council. So, habits die hard. Good catch. Gonna we're gonna Yeah, we're going to get called on that.

Well, we're we're absolutely going to get called on that and that's fine. So, um that was not out of malice for anything, but you know, that is what it is. So, all right. Um item three, approval of city council meeting minutes from November 6, 2025. Is there a motion in a second? So, move. Second. Any comments, questions, changes to the minutes? Um, we'll take a roll call vote for the minutes. Mr. Allison, yes. Mr. Mackey, yes. No. Bonnie, right. Mr. Pizzy, yes. Miss Mey, yes.

Mr. Yoder, yes. Motion passes 5. We'll move to item uh four. We have a proclamation for Ann Nordell. And while Miss Mey is noted on the agenda, I'll welcome the mayor to the podium to kick this one off for us. Mr. Mayor, good evening, sir.

Good evening, President Yoder, members of council, and the administration. We do I'll read into the record the mayoral proclamation for an uh Anne Nordell and then I'm sure others and we'll bring Ann up and I'll present uh the proclamation uh to her. So, I'll just read it first. Mayoral proclamation. Whereas Anne and Eric Nordell have been growing food in and for our community for nearly 40 years since they first moved to our area and established Beach Grove Farm in the early 1980s in Kogan House. And they have always cultivated strong roots in the Wingsport community with their passion for growing quality organic food. Whereas the Nordell's have continuously supported a community-driven approach to sustainable foods in our region via starting and sustaining what has become our vibrant Williamsport growers market instead of settling for selling their exceptional quality produce in a more lucrative urban market. Whereas the Nordell's have redefined the meaning and the method of true organic farming for the farming community nationwide nationwide via educating others not just locally but nationally in their celebrated growing methods and Ann and Eric have contributed to the agricultural world as charter members of PASA, the Pennsylvania Association for Sustainable Agriculture and have made sure that their farming knowledge and experience was available for the benefit of others. Whereas providing for the community has always been paramount to the Nordell's approach to farming with the Central Pennsylvania Food Bank being a frequent recipient of food contributions from Beach Grove Farm because as an says and I quote, "Everyone deserves good food." End quote. Whereas Anne in her role as the market vendor of the family had a

vision for what our growers market could be and worked to grow the market with more vendors and more people. The farmtotable/farmtofork idea was new, but an enlisted some local chefs to do some demonstrations in order to promote and showcase the interesting products available and sample some food while highlighting the chefs. Whereas this led to a ping college collaboration with the Williamsport growers market in the early 2000s that allowed students to create demonstrations with donated food from the vendors and influenced a continuous passion on the part of the pen college culinary program for local foods and products. Whereas Anne and the growers market also helped to establish a scholarship at Ping College in memory of Mary Ditchfield, a dear friend to many who also worked at the market. Whereas Williamsport, the Williamsport growers market, our region and our nation have all benefited thanks to Anne and Eric Nordell having chosen to settle on the small fertile beach grove farm in Kogan House and build their lives here. Now therefore, be it resolved that the city of Williamsport thanks the Nordells for their contributions to building our thriving community and local food scene in helping to ensure access to healthy food for all people in our city and region and acknowledges that Ann and Eric Nordell's roots run deep here and we are all better for it. And be it further resolved that this proclamation is set to my hand and seal this fourth day of December 2025. And so if we could just thank if if Ann could come up please and if we could just thank her for all of her contributions.

Well, thank you and I'm I'm really very honored and humbled. Um, you know, I've always felt that people should everybody should have access to really high quality local foods and that was one reason why we got involved with the Williamsport Farmers Market um over 30 years ago and we've tried to achieve that and I think the growers market has really brought together the entire community. Um, every neighborhood comes to that market from all over and the surrounding communities. We get people from Lewisburg, Sealins Grove, Wellsboro, Lock Haven, but it's the locals that really support this market and I'm so thankful and I'm thankful for the city that has supported us through all these years.

Thank you. They probably won't say anything. I'll turn it back over. I'm sure council has, but I I just want to say thank you. I've been to the market many times over the years with my children as well. So, thank you uh for all of your contributions to a great market. And I'll turn it back over to council as well.

Randy gets first shot. He's retiring. Any any comments um from for members of council? Randy, please go ahead.

Yeah. um [clears throat] what the what the growers market means to to our community. Um I believe it it it's beyond the the the the food that's offered which is excellent uh the products there the the care and the expertise uh that people have and and offer it to us. But um I saw more than that. It's it's a community coming together. Um it's people meeting each other and then know getting to know each other and uh the vendors that we I'll say we because I have a small part uh following my wife around there. But um um the the sense that um we can share about our personal lives. Uh we can share about um uh things we're interested in. Um it it's that that's hard to find a lot of times in this day and age. Uh a thing a um an experience that will bring people together in a positive way. Um, I wish we could um just manufacture that and sell it across the country. We'd be a much better place for it. and uh uh the Nordell's and and what they've [clears throat] meant to us all um by spearheading that um we're forever grateful to them for that and um it's my prayer and hope that that this keeps on and in uh as an honor

to them and uh that that others will be able to to step in and and do the same thing. So, thank you very much and wherever you are, [laughter] Miss Mey. Yeah. Um, I had a feeling I had a feeling Randy might say it better. [laughter]

Um but uh yeah I uh so I started cooking for a living probably about 20 years ago but 20 yeah about around 20. Um but the first time an how long have you been selling to my restaurant?

That's what I thought. Yeah. [laughter] So, I have memories of an Ann and Nordell going in and out of the basement of the restaurant, dropping off lettuce from when I was a kid. [laughter] And uh and so uh in many ways I've had a relationship with an since um back when I still thought she was Peggy Cronin. Sorry, An [laughter] used to get you two confused. Um but uh and um so I was fortunate when I moved back to Williamsport and started cooking for a living that we had an established relationship with a local grower at my restaurant. Um and I was exceptionally fortunate that um that that local grower uh turned out to be um a grower that frankly grows some of the best produce I've ever had anywhere in the country. Um and uh uh and that that's a pretty remarkable thing. We we are very fortunate in our area um how much access to good food we have and I don't I don't know that we ever appreciate that because there are things that go along with that like being a rural community in ways that some people find um you know uh challenging. I think it's wonderful because we we we have all these great growers and um and uh it it I I can't really overstate how lucky I've been to get to spend time with uh an and to a vastly lesser extent Eric [laughter] nor Dell over the last uh 20 years. Um, and I I uh I've I've learned a lot from Anne. I've I've complained a lot to Anne [laughter] and uh and and I value that relationship and I I certainly hope that it that it continues. Um and I value the the food community within our city that that Ann has helped to build. Um because without that uh frankly it wouldn't be anywhere near as much fun to be a cook for a living. um what you are you you

can only cook what you have to work with and when you are gifted with the best um the best produce in the country then um that really gives you a great starting point and I bet you Steve can echo that because yeah [laughter] um I'm not the only one in Williamsport who buys from man not by a long stretch um and and and we are lucky thank you an

um as a uh as a transplant um not being from Williamsport not growing up here. I can tell you there's a lot of awesome things that drew me not only to Williamsport to come to college, but drew me back here after living in a lot bigger cities um to lay roots down here. And the farmers market's one of them. And and I apologize. Um farmers market's been ingrained in my brain since I was a little kid. As you saw with the flag, old habits die hard. Um I know the term is is is growers market. Um but um what what's what's amazing about it to me, Councilman Allison referenced that sense of community that's there. Um and that is a real draw and especially for me too on the paternal [clears throat] side of my family, agriculture is a big thing. Um I lived on a farm, not a lot of people know this, for five or six years. Um that farm's been in my family for five or six generations. Um, I really value um what I can access at the farmers market um for a a number of of different reasons. So um the beautiful thing about it for me and my family is it at least for me it gives me a semblance of where I'm from and the roots that I came from um in a really good way. And so I am continuously grateful for the farmers market and um to the Nordell's, you know, just can't thank you enough for your contributions and getting it to where it is. Um I hope that it continues and uh as long as I'm sitting here, I will always be happy to support that farmers growers market. Um as uh as best as I can. It's a true asset for the city. Um as they as as the mayor mentioned, it brings people in from a lot of places. um it cultivates the the community that makes Williamsport special and that is lacking in a lot of other areas not only of the

state but the country. So extremely grateful to you. Thank you for what you've done for it. Um can't thank you enough. Miss Mey,

I should add two further things. One is that um as a native William Porter, I have many friends who have uh moved to other communities throughout Pennsylvania and throughout the country and I don't think that there's a one of them who isn't excited to come back and go to the growers market which is a kind of unusual thing but I've had um my brother for instance makes it to the farmers market growers market uh every time he comes back to Williamsport from Baltimore and and and many of the people that I spend uh time with here who who who don't live here anymore say that it's the best farmers market they've been to. Um so we're fortunate there. Uh the other thing that I wanted to mention um relates to the food bank. Uh it is December and uh and the food bank is in need and they can make four meals with every dollar you donate. Um, so as long as we're talking about food access and food scarcity in the city, and I think it's come up twice tonight already, um, I would encourage everyone to consider making a donation toward the end of the year to the food bank because they could certainly put your money to good use. Thank you,

John. Vince, any comments you two would like to share? No worries. Um, well, thank you. Um, again, the Nordell's, we're we're grateful for it. Uh, Mayor, thank you for spearheading the proclamation. Welld deserved. Um, I believe there are some refreshments on the other in the other room um that the Nordell's and um our our friends here in the back that have come to support you um are able to partake, celebrate, etc.

Yep. I mean, anybody who's hungry, I brought about a million cupcakes back there. Um, so, so there there are cupcakes in the back room if anybody came here a little peckish [laughter] and um, but in the meantime, thank thank you all for coming and um, and thank you Ann for uh, for 40 plus years of good farming here in the uh, in the community. And I'm going to hold you to that thing about growing some stuff for me next year. [laughter] Thank you. Give him a couple minutes. That's okay.

I got We're still reading the back, huh? I thought you poor vote. [laughter] Nobody can ever hear me goods. Oh, the sniffling, the cold. If I get dual credit, people will think I'm a lot less heartless than they usually do. I actually do get a little emotional anymore kids sometimes. Yeah, same. Yeah, it's weird, isn't it? Yeah, it absolutely is. It's changing a lot of ways and that's funny to happen.

Yeah. [laughter] All right. Um, item five, limited courtesy of the floor. I don't recall any requests tonight. Um, we will jump to item six. Mrs. Frank, an ordinance amending article 111231 129131 of the codified ordinances, term limits, and final reading. Is there a motion in a second? So moved. Second. Motion a second. Mr. Mackey. Second reading. The floor is yours, sir.

Yeah. Um it's just been a long road, but we're here at the second second reading. Um first iteration um was vetoed as everybody knows by the mayor. Um we went back to the drawing board. Um had a lot of good discussions I think. Um [clears throat] and uh we're at where we're at now. So again, just to remind everybody, this will set uh term limits for uh the treasurer, for the controller, for city council, and for the mayor. uh mayors will be uh two terms or eight years um that's non-consecutive uh or consecutively. So somebody can conceivably take a break for four years and come back and run again um city council for 12 uh three terms 12 years as well as the treasurer and the um controller. Uh, and obviously we we put that language in um in this version of the ordinance that will allow um a couple elected officials to still run for a third term if they so choose. Um so that's kind of where we're at. So I guess speak now or forever hold your peace. Any any comments or questions um from members? All right. Um I I have a couple and then we can certainly take the vote. Um I prepared them so if this seems a little pre practice bear with me. Um so you know John kind of alluded to this um you know speak now forever with your piece and I think a lot of the dialogue um that's been taking place through this definitely drove a lot of discussion in the media, social media and and I think pockets in the community. Um, and I'm glad to see that. Um, notably on something that council's voting on, but um, I think there's some pockets of our dialogue that are important to at least, um, you know, make sure kind of revisit it at least in the record. And I want to

preface all these with with two points. Um, you know, first, professionally and personally, I admire and respect every one of you sitting up here, um, members of the administration. So, um, and over the six years sitting here working together with a lot of issues that we've gone through, right, and, uh, are unique and not unique to Williamsport, um, that respect is forged in in the trenches. So, nothing's a negative reflection of of anybody, um, or any decision-m on this issue. And then second, politically, um, I think it's important to say this, too. I'm not going to be a candidate for mayor. And um so nothing I'm saying is about political posturing here. Um there's a compelling practical case to this. All right. There's a real reform here that establishes term limits moving forward. Um there's a I believe and why I was excited about this initially a problem of entrenchment that we've seen with elected officials across the board. Um this minimizes that. Um and with the challenges I think the city faces now is going to continue to face um with limited political capital with serious financial constraints um there's a strong case for this with prudent governments in taking achievable reform rather than holding out for perfection right um and I absolutely get that but I still have some reluctance um and it's that inclusion of this language that allows a few people to run beyond um what they would normally be able to because of this ordinance. And I think it's problematic for two different reasons. I don't think it actually I think it actually creates unequal um application here. Um there's an argument that there's two classes of officials

now, a couple now and then everybody that comes after. and it's rooted in a 30-year-old Supreme Court case that included a hypothetical argument about political bias. I don't think any of this has been political. This has had consistent bipartisan support. It impacts office holders of both parties and frankly we have a majority Republican council at the moment and it affects more Republicans than Democrats. Um, could we face a lawsuit? you certainly could, but um I I think the case for equal application um is important and I I want to clear the air that I don't think there was political bias in this at all. Okay. And second and and more importantly, I think when we talk about how we govern, um I think we still I still believe this this is part of the dialogue that we had during the first try at this. I still believe we need to build a culture in city government about thinking of how these about these governance issues differently. Um when in in my six years sitting here when we face legal vagueness or risk we revert back to the safe path the traditional path even when we have more flexibility than regular third class cities as an optional thirdass charter. Um, and I believe that risk aversion is a root cause of what we're facing now. Budget deficits, federal state investigations, the nickels scandal where a career bureaucrat was able to accumulate unchecked power because the governance structure enabled it. And I want to be clear about what I'm not saying. I'm not saying voting yes reflects a lack of principle. Voting yes reflects a legitimate judgment that the practical reform that we have here matters more than perfect application. It's not a bad ordinance.

It's genuinely good. That will improve governance moving forward. And I'm not trying to kill it. I'm confident it will pass and I'm sure it will pass. But what I am saying is I think the institutional record needs to show that equal application mattered enough to at least be brought forward in second try of passing this reform. even when the reform itself is v is viable and valuable 5 t years from now if this is ever revisited it's working and tweaked again you know maybe somebody looks back and says Yodar was right that grandfather clause was stupid um or maybe they'll say he's too rigid the practical reform of this mattered more that's all possible and fine but either way I think it's important that both positions of this are in the record for the future and more broadly There's been debate about whether term limitments are good at all, whether in light of the nickel scandal, we need more oversight, not less. I think the seven of us, the five of us that are here, the two others that could not make it tonight, um clearly think it's a good idea and and I'm in that camp. Um that support for me is rooted in the governance issues that that enabled, in my view, the Nicholls scandal. Okay. The reason we're dealing with million-dollar fines from the feds, audits behind schedule, state federal investigations, being p being pressured by state federal authorities on RBTA. All of that happened because a career bureaucrat was enabled to have too much power because our governance system allowed it. One person held multiple jobs where clear guard rails were lacking and ethics issues were prevalent and the governance structure that enabled it was codified into our local laws. It wasn't until these last two councils that any of that was addressed. We've addressed some of those issues from the perspective of at least personal staff, right? We have better say as council and department heads, who fills them, what they oversee, how long

they can serve in the interim, but we haven't done that from an elected perspective. And I and why I was excited about and continue to be excited about this reform is we need to do that. As Councilman Mackey had said, we're not precluding anyone from running again after the term expires, but we're ensuring breaks happen to eliminate staleness and bring new perspective. We've structured these to where institutional wisdom can be built, technical expertise can be accumulated. Hopefully, we're establishing norms. People may be surprised that two and three term mayors are actually a rarity in city government. Hopefully this makes that more of a norm that we I believe do need and even with the um reservations I have about the language I think it finds a reasonable balance but the underlying principle I think is important rules should apply to those who make them matters for our institutional culture. Not enough to kill the reform but enough to be on record as having stood for it. I respect the passing of the ordinance and I appreciate the reform. I understand the reason behind the inclusion language. I just think we need to say that if the equal equal application matters even when it's costly and I'll end my soap box here with this and we can take the vote as we move forward. We as council, we as the administration, we need to continue to be comfortable having these discussions and addressing these issues. Each time we've had the opportunity to address governance reform, it's been vetoed by the mayor and it's faced public push back, right? Um, and the first reading of this, we didn't even really have any kind of public dialogue with the administration. Um, which is unfortunate. So, and and to be frank, I'm not really convinced the majority of the public has strong opinions either way on these. Um, but those that do make it more

challenging. it does for me and I know it does for others, right? Um, we should still do these things because they're right, they're needed and that's why we're here in these positions to do the hard things that need to be done whether they're popular or not. So, this is going to pass night. It's a good thing for Williamsport. Establishes term limbs going forward creates healthier rotation our elected officials. It's real reform, but while it's good, I think we may be crippling the underlying principle that makes term limits valuable in the first place. Um, but even with that, I'm grateful for all of you putting the work in on this, the dialogue we've had over now four readings. Um, and uh, I'm excited to see where this goes over the next 5 10 years, how this works. Um, and frankly, how a future council might enhance it or adapt it. Thank you for listening to me. I appreciate it. Mrs. Frank on the vote.

Mr. Allison, yes. Mr. Mackey, yes. Mr. Pizzy, yes. Miss Millie, yes. Mr. Yoder, no. Um, second reading passes 41. Thank you all. All right. Item seven, Mrs. Frank. An ordinance amending article 709, article 711, article 1344 are the codified ordinances of the city of Williamsport like County in final reading. Is there a motion in a second? So moved. Second. Mr. N. Good evening, sir. The floor is yours.

Good evening, President Yoder, members of council. Um, it's a straightforward second reading. I really don't have anything to add. This is just merely putting us in line with the PLCb that enforces throughout the state noise enforcement inside and outside of the facilities that licensed them. Any additional comments, questions for Mr. Nar? Okay, here you see none. Mrs. Frank, item seven, please. Mr. Allison, yes. Mr. Mackey, yes. Mr. Pizzy. Yes. Miss me? Yes. Mr. Yoder? Yes. Motion passes 5-0. Thank you, Mr. NR. Item eight, Mrs. Frank.

An ordinance amending article 189 ways garden commission of the codified ordinance of the city of Williamsport Lycoming County in final reading. Is there a motion in a second? So moved. Second. Motion in a second. This was um Vice President Biders. Um he's not here so I'll cover it. I really don't have anything to add on this one. So, [laughter] any comments or questions? All right. I I think we all agreed even when we appointed the last member to the commission that we had this was something that was necessary. So, yeah. All right. Mrs. Franklin, item eight, please. Mr. Allison, yes. Mr. Mackey, yes. Mr. Pizzy, yes. Miss Millie, yes.

Mr. Yoder, yes. Motion passes 5. Item nine, Mrs. Frank, an ordinance amending various operating budgets for the city of Wansport, including the general fund, emergency and reserve fund, capital projects fund, city hall operating fund, liquid fuels, debt services fund, and act 13 in first reading. Is there a motion and a second? So moved. Second, Miss Livermore. Good evening.

Good evening, council. you have before you the ordinance to adopt the operating budgets for the city of Williamsport. As Janice just said, um, of course, we've had two budget sessions where we've discussed the budget topics. Um, I mean, I I'll turn it over to you guys. You guys have the numbers there, unless you want me to read each of the numbers.

No, you don't need to read each of the numbers. Um, and first off, let me Jamie, thank you for your work putting this in. Um, I picked these budgets up Friday at about 5ish and you were still putting other stuff together related to the budget. Um, you've worked pretty hard on this one. Um, you forought on the ones you've been involved in since you've been here. I'm I'm grateful for it. And for a rare time that I'll speak for everybody, I know we're all grateful for it. So, thank you very much. Yes. Thank you. Hey, wait. I didn't tell you I was [laughter]

You are today. Um, so I mean, hey, so as Jamie said, we've had two budget sessions on this. Um, and you know, I think the past couple years we've pretty openly recognized what this was going to look like and come to, right? Um, and and I'll be the one to say this, too. You know, uh, in the past, um, I don't know that we've seen the plan to address it in prior budgets. Um, and we're starting to see that in this budget, right? We've gone through a process with PFM that was supported by DCD, spearheaded by the mayor and the administration. Um, that was rooted in our ask at the end of last budget. And so, um, while, you know, I think there might be additional tweaks we want to do in second reading

to help put us in a better position going into the 2027 budget. Um, this is as good of a starting point for this that I could have imagined for this year, knowing where we were coming from after last year's budget. And frankly, it's probably a little bit better than what I expected in a couple of areas. And so, um, you know, I I'll open it for other comments or or or questions on the budget, but, um, I suspect, um, we'll be, aside from some some tweaks and changes next Thursday that I think a handful of us are still kind of working through and figuring out,

um, you know, we're in a decent spot over the next couple of years in terms of strategy to get from this point to hopefully a better fiscal position. um including some larger initiatives that we're hoping to get off the ground late this year, early next year related to the home rule and um pos the big that being the big one to position us for better fiscal health. So um any other comments, questions from members? I'll I'll certainly open the floor. But I I do also want to say I think Gordon is on the phone. He did join the meeting just for this tonight. So I think he is on Zoom as well in case you guys had any questions for him. Let's put Gordon on. Yeah. So, he is there. Sorry, Gordon.

Well, if if others have questions for Gordon, he is on Zoom. And I thank you for the reminder. I forgot about that. Um I I will just say I've said this a couple times publicly. Um I continue to be impressed with the job PFM's doing. I get why DCD recommended them. I get why, you know, DCD has a lot of faith in them. Um you know, I will publicly say again, I hope that they're around at least for another year. Um I think we need them. I think Jamie, you need them. Um, I think members of the administration council needs them. So,

thank you, Gordon, for not only the contractual work you're doing, but I think you've gone above and beyond in a few areas, and I'm grateful for it. I wish we had you here the first time we did this, to be frank. My pleasure. Uh, thank you for having me. It's been good working with you, and um I'm optimistic we'll continue to get to do so. And of course, our our final report comes out in January, so you haven't seen the last of us yet. You're here. Any any comments, questions on um item nine by members? Mr. Mackey,

Jamie, while I while you're up there, I know you sent an email. Could you just confirm where uh in the streets department you added that extra overtime for public safety? Uh, sure. Let me just pull that up. I'm sorry. So, I did resend you guys a new budget. It It would be on page I think 21. Um I'm sorry that's not true.

Should be under streets and traffic. If I can find streets and traffic. 38. I'm on 38. I don't know if the numbers have Yeah. U my page 38 doesn't show straight and traffic so I apologize. In your book it should be under um the overtime line item under streets and traffic. I I don't see it in my book right now. I apologize.

No, that's fine. Um, and could do do you remember the the total was it? Um, I added 25,000. I don't remember what it was prior to um Okay. I I think it's 60 now. It was 60. So, now it's 85. Yes. Yes. Sorry. And we're confident that that's going to cover us until we get these new the Okay. Right. Okay. Great. Thank you. And sorry to put you on the spot like Sorry, my book is not it's not in complete order here.

Any other questions, comments? Miss Mey, um just a quick question. Um, my memory was jogged by the um one about commercial insurance uh in your email, Jamie. Um, are we still exclusively with Gallagher for our insurance? Um, yeah, we're with they're our agent, right? So, yes, they but they have multiple different vendors, but yes, right now we are currently with Gallagher. Um, and I'm excited to see that it was 60,000 less than Yes, that the workers comp was. Yes, it was that was good. Yeah, that's great. Um, that said, it's been a while since she

Yes, I do think that um, uh, Donna and I actually just talked about that today. We're probably going to do an RFP next year. It was, I think, 2023. I think Molly did the last one, right? The first year that I was here, I think she did one. Oh, and Gallagher, I must have missed that. Gallagher still won that contract kind of. Uh, I think so. Yeah. Well, obviously. Yeah. Yes. I I didn't do insurance at that point. So, um, but I believe they were before I took over. Yeah. Well, yeah, I think every three years strikes me as probably kind of a thing for RFP RFPs for any services.

And and Donna and I discussed that today actually and we both agreed that uh we'll probably do one maybe second quarter, first quarter, second quarter of next year beginning the process. Great. Awesome. Fantastic. Um, and I see that we did build in 50,000 for a home roll commission match. Um, so thank you for that. Although not through act 13. That's No, it's not eligible. Act 13 funds aren't eligible to be used for that. Things you can't use active. Yes. Yes. [laughter] And I actually didn't even think about that until till after the meeting. So,

Got it. Um, all right. Well, yeah, I would uh I I would second what Adam says. I do think there are a handful of changes to make, but uh but but not too many. And that we um I would personally prefer to have Yeah. that we have a bit more time to discuss them before we go go for it. Um but uh but yeah, I think it's a it's a decent budget. Thank you for your efforts, Gordon. Although

I would underline the fact that it is only a decent budget if we can realize increasing our revenues in two years time. Um, as Gordon highlighted, it's a it's a budget that builds um what I still consider a relatively shaky bridge to 2027 when we ideally find um some new revenue sources. And uh and what that means is that it is on us to find some new revenue revenue sources before 27. And the only uh source that we've located that that seems capable of meeting that gap is um to transition to a home rule municipality. So, um, that puts, I think, the onus on us, uh, to to make that happen here, um, or risk, you know, running a bridge to nowhere, [laughter] which which is not a great position to be in. Um, all right. Thanks. If I could, I would just add that, you know, in agreement with everything that's been said so far, I'd like to add that to to Councilwoman Mey's point that finding additional revenue sources, but also looking to eliminate inefficiencies internally and um find ways that we can keep a hold of more of the city's money.

You're here. Any other final comments, questions before we take the vote? Okay, Mrs. Frank. Item nine, first reading, please. Mr. [clears throat] Allison, yes. Mr. Mackey, yes. Mr. Pizzy, yes. Biz Millie, yes. Mr. Yodor, yes. Motion passes 50. Item 10, Mrs. Frank. Ordinance of the city of Williamsport County of Lycoming and Commonwealth of Pennsylvania fixing the tax rate for all city purposes for the year 2026 and first reading. Is there a motion in a second? So moved. Second. Miss Livermore.

Hello again. Um, this ordinance, as Janice just said, is for the 2026 tax rate to fix the 2026 tax rate. Um, the millillage we have in there is 17.55 and we just I mean this was in the budget sessions as well.

All right. Um, as uh Mr. Livermore said, the budget has a half a mil tax increase. Um, I mean, look, none of us like it, right? We've all pretty openly the past few years have said, you know, none of us like tax increases, right? Um but kind of linking to a lot of the comments that we made with um the budget ordinance and notably Miss Mey's comments with home rule. Um we we to provide the level of service that we need to operate this city. Um, unfortunately we need it and and frankly I'll be shocked if there's not another one in the 2027 budget um to get us through over the bridge strategy that PFM has developed and outlined and is reflected here. Right. Um I don't like it. I'm planning to vote for it. Um I think most of us will. I don't want to put words into people's mouths. That's the sense that I had a couple days ago. Right. Um hopefully it's a means to an end. I I'll circle back on Miss Milliey's comments. The the the path out of this is home rule from a revenue perspective. Um and frankly, that's what this strategy relies on. Hopefully, we can get that going. Um get it get it intelligently designed by a good commission and get it passed to where we have more taxing flexibility and more autonomy in our tax laws compared to what Harrisburg gives us. to where we not only maybe can hold where we're at on property taxes, but it get to a point where we actually can realistically provide some relief down the road, right? That's a huge win. And while I don't know that it's immediately feasible, with whom I believe it's feasible and can and we could get there. Um and so while I don't like this tax increase, unfortunately, the strategy

calls for it and I support the strategy. Um and um I hope that in a couple years we can get to a point where um we don't need to do this. It would be amazing. Mhm. It would be amazing. So I'll open the floor for other comments from members, but Miss Peely.

Um I'm just going to point out that yes, it is a tax increase budget. Um, and I have spent years advocating for steady, small, gradual tax increases as a way to lessen the impact um, to the taxpayer in the long run. Um, so I I am in agreement with the tax increase. Um, and I'm glad to see it be as small as it is under the circumstances. Um but to achieve that um we have sacrificed a number of things um including about uh $750,000 worth of funding within our capital projects budget that would have made us pos made it possible for us to buy new equipment in the coming years. um and uh as as well as a contribution to um our emergency and reserve fund that would have given us a bit better cushion to address levy and graphous run concerns. Um we we have trimmed money and our bottom line which I believe were dropping by what 1.4 um yeah so so we will be $1.4 4 million um not in the red, but we will have lost that from our fund balance um at the end of the 26 budget year. Um so that is to say that we have made up for about $3 million worth of deficit spending by by stealing it from places in the budget that it couldn't really [clears throat] come from. Um in order to implement only a half a mil tax increase. Um, I mention this not because I um am advocating for a higher tax increase this year, but so that we appreciate the extent to which we cannot continue to do this and operate [laughter] um a financially stable city. Um, you know, this this is we knew that we would have a $3 million deficit um going into this budget year. Um, we have met that by spending from our reserves. Um and uh and that uh is something that that no one can do in the long run because we cannot um increase

our debt ceiling um if it needs to be increased and we cannot um spend more than we take in. That's that's just not a financial something that's financially feasible for a municipality. um we don't we don't print money here and so um we uh we need to figure out another strategy and we need to figure out it fast figure it out fast and um and thanks to Gordon we we we have one that we are moving toward [laughter] but

but but I'll I'll also chime in and preface it with this I mean like so you're right we're we're using a combination of a tax increase operational cuts those operational cuts are predominantly um capital improvements, right? And then we're using onetime reserves. There are a number of strategies that PFM outlined in public sessions that um you know, maybe we make some changes in going into the second reading to put us in a better position next year. But even if we didn't do that, they're going to have to be parts of the 2027 budget. And that's a tax increase, that's attrition,

that are health insurance changes. there are a number of them that we need to see in 2027. So, we're gonna actually gonna get a report from Gordon in January um that outlines the final official findings, right? What's going on? Um what are the strategies we would recommending you do, etc., etc. Um I hope this council accepts that um and at least establishes a policy of, hey,

we're on board with this plan. Um, you know, we need to see these to at least show that, hey, we as council, we're we're we're s we're we're doing our part in solving this issue and getting to a better place, right? And so, I say all of that a year ahead of 2027 budget because um, frankly, I expect the 2027 budget to be I don't want to say uglier, but it's going to be harder. There's going to be harder things we're going to see that some of us are that none of us are really going to like, right? Let's get it out there now.

So, here here any other um comments, questions on first reading of the tax ordinance. All right, hearing see none. Mrs. Frank, item um 10, please. Mr. Allison, yes. Mr. Mackey, yes. Mr. Pizzy, yes. Miss Mey, yes. Mr. Yoder, yes. Motion passes 5-0. Item 11. Um, Mrs. Frank, resolution for various insurance needs for policy year 11 126 through policy year 11 127. Is there a motion in a second? So moved. Second, Livermore.

Good evening again. Um, this resolution covers the various insurance needs for the city for uh January 1st, 2026 through January 1st, 2027. Um there's not a ton of changes here. I mean, there's always somewhat of an increase, but um the workers comp is uh what like Liz said earlier, we did anticipate that being about $60,000 higher and our agent was able to get it down a little bit lower. So, um I did adjust the budget numbers for that extra $60,000. Um, I don't Do you guys have any questions on on the commercial insurance?

Any comments or questions for Miss Livermore? I think I already asked. Sorry for going out of turn. [sighs and gasps] All right. Hearing seeing none then. Mrs. Frank, item 11. Mr. Allison. Yes. Mr. Mackey. Yes. Mr. Pizzy. Yes. Ms. Mey. Yes. Mr. Yoder. Yes. Motion passes 5-0. Thank you, Miss L. Thank you.

Um item 12. Um we have a real estate reduction. Um I'm actually going to ask uh Solicitor Grimes to kind of help me through these next three. And let me let me first say um I missed your last meeting that you were at, but um it's uh I don't want to say awkward is the right word, but it's it's it's kind of full circle to see you sitting there. Um when I remember, you know, being in Jonah's seat in 2019, kind of watching the budget sessions and, you know, sitting in the treasurer's office. um you welcoming John and I onto council and to kind of see the process you've gone through to um you know professionally um position yourself is is awesome. I'm really proud to see you sitting here as our solicitor tonight. Um and I'm really thankful you're where you're at to continue to serve the city. Um we're better for it. Um and I'm really glad we are not losing you.

Well, thank you. And that was much nicer than just awkward. So [laughter] awkward's not the right word, but full circle very much is and it's good. and I'm happy to help through these. Put my treasurer hat back on here. Here. Um, walk us through the real estate reduction, Nick. Um,

so it looks like the first one here is a real estate reduction for repository sales. And this is something that um you're required to reduce the amount if you accept the repository um bid. So, the county has um two tax sales. Uh and if a property doesn't sell at either of those tax sales, then it goes on a repository list. And a repository list just means we're done with the bidding. Nobody wants it. It sits here and we can accept any bid for it. And um generally people want to get that out of the county's hands

and get a buyer uh for that property. So what happens is then when there's a repository bid that has to be accepted. But what happens with the repository bid is that changes the assessed value of that property to whatever the repository bid is. So, um I won't go through each of these because you have the list, but you can see that for the first one, for example. Um it looks like it was a repository sale where somebody bid $910 on it. And so that property that has likely sat vacant, has sat through two stack sales, sat on a repository list, now changes from an $8,400 assessment down to a $910 assessment because that's what the bid that was accepted for the repository sale was. And that's the same for each of these. All right. [clears throat] Thank you. You're welcome. Any um comments or questions um from

You need a motion. Uh sorry, motion a second. Second. Motion a second. Any comments or questions on the motion after the fact? Sorry about that. All right, Mrs. Frank. Um take the vote, please. Mr. Allison, yes. Mr. Mackey, yes. Mr. Pizzy, yes. Mr. Yoder, yes. Motion passes 40. Um item 13. Um is there a motion a second for the real estate interm exoneration? So moved.

Um solicifer Grimes, will you walk us through this one as well? Um it's been a little bit since since we've had one of these, I think. And um I don't I don't know the whole history of this property, but obviously everybody's here is familiar with the Lerta ordinance. You just went through that recently. And lura ordinance is an abatement of taxes based on new construction. So the base of whatever that property was is still taxable, but there's a diminishing schedule of real estate reduction, real estate tax reduction just for the improvement of those properties. So it appears that this is a property that was approved for LERA. Um there is an increase in the assessed value of that property due to the new construction that qualified under LERA. In certain circumstances, when there's new construction on a property, an interim bill will be issued because you're build ahead for your real estate taxes. So, the bill you get in March, your municipal bill goes through the end of the year until December. But if you build a $100,000 addition um in July, then the city will need to recapture that addition from July until the end of the year because you've already been build. So, this is a property that was approved for LERA. there was an improvement and then a four-month interim bill issued for the four months that the improvement was there but the prior bill didn't capture. Now that bill has to be issued um if it's part of the tax duplicate but in this case because it was all new additional development which all qualifies for LERA that's a full abatement on this additional um assessed value. So really essentially what it's saying here is this property owner developed 58 just over $58,000 in their property under the LERA program and now in year one that's being exonerated under the Lerta program that was approved. All right, any comments or questions? All right, hearing see none. Mrs. Frank, item 14, 13, please.

Mr. Allison, yes. Mr. Mackey, yes. Mr. Pelzi, yes. Mr. Yoder, yes. Motion passes 40. Thank you for your help there, Nick. You're welcome. Um, item 14, Mrs. Frank. Resolution to approve CGB Datacon Solutions to provide technical support and live stream. Is there a motion, a second? So move. Second. Second.

Motion and a second. Um so this is um an extension for another year of um an agreement with um Chris Bird who the last two years now has done our meetings AV technical support um so that we can live stream and so the public can be more informed about what we're voting on and what's going on in terms of um of the city. Um so

the document is not loading on Dropbox for me. Um, but realistically, um, this is same terms and conditions, same pricing that we've had for the life of it. Um, so nothing has changed from that regard. Um, and I'll just say before any comments, questions, Chris, appreciate you continuing to do this, willing to do this. Um, it's been very much appreciated, helpful. You're really easy to work with. Um, and I'm grateful for that. Grateful for your expertise. Any comments or questions? All right, you're going to see none. Mrs. Frank, item 14. Mr. Allison, yes. Mr. Mackey, yes. Mr. Pizzy,

yes. Ms. Mey, yes. Mr. Yoda, yes. Motion passes 5-0. Um, item 15, Mrs. Frank. Resolution to approve the advertisement for sale of personal property. Is there a motion in a second? So moved. Second.

Mayor Slaughter, welcome back to the podium, sir. Thank you. Good evening again, President Yoda, members of council administration. This is just an advertisement um for the notification of cell. This is the rail car that sits behind uh patrol that's been there for a long time. Uh we've had some interest recently. Um, and so we worked with attorney Hower on the best way to go through this process and he and this is this is the process he said would uh be the easiest and the best. So we this is just a resolution to advertise. I think it has to run I believe for 10 days um and then people can submit not submit and go from there. So this is just for that for that rail car that has been sitting there and this is not to sell it. This is just notice of advertisement. Any um any comments or questions for members. Okay. Um hearing and seeing none. Mrs. Frank, item 15.

Mr. Allison, yes. Mr. Mackey, yes. Mr. Pizzy, yes. Miss Mey, yes. Mr. Yoder, yes. Motion passes 50. Item 16, Mrs. Frank. Resolution between the city of Wanesport and UPMC for installation of bicycle safety. Is there a motion in a second? So move Miss Fesler. Good evening.

Yes. Good evening. I'm presenting this tonight on behalf of Scott Williams. Um this is essentially anou between the city of Williamsport and UPMC. So, we are um one year out from last year's budget session when councilwoman Millie made the suggestion that we potentially put something in the city budget to start to explore a bike lane program and um councilman Ber had suggested that perhaps we would explore the use of CDBG funds to do that instead of city budget funds. So, we have done that and um we are developing this project and as part of doing so thisou is before you. So, I'm just going to give you a little bit of background about the project. So, we'll be installing pavement markings and signs on about four miles of low volume city streets connecting neighborhoods on the east side to Shaw Park, Brandon Park, and the pedestrian bridge over 180 at Water Tower Square. So, we'll be coordinating this program to complete at the time that the mountain bike course at Shaw Park, the um pump track project um comes to an end. So we're coordinating those projects. So Loyal Sock Township is currently completing a pathway called Miller's Run Greenway, which is going to run parallel to Northway Road. So they're doing that to connect their parks and schools as well. So the most direct connection between Shaw Park and Miller's Run Greenway would be through the UPMC Divine Campus. So, Mayor Slaughter, um, Bill Scott and Scott Williams have been meeting with UPMC and the representatives from Loyal Soc, you know, the best way to accomplish this. Loyals Township is working on doing a similar pavement marking and signage program on their section of Loyal. And then all of the work that we are doing

will just be on city- owned streets with CDBG money and a portion of it will be on that UPMC divine campus. So thisou basically outlines the relationship between us and UPMC. You have it in front of you so you can see what the expectations of the city are and what the expectations of UPMC are. Thank you very much. Um, any comments or questions from members? Miss Millie,

what is the just had it here? The city ordinance 51018. Uh, city code section 5108 with respect says the city shall take reasonable efforts to enforce its ordinances including city code section 511.08 with respect to the bicycle friendly route. I believe that that's a city ordinance about bike operation and safety in the city.

Okay. I was hoping it was that. Yes, I was also possibly hoping that we could discuss andor implement a plan to better enforce bicycle safety in the city. Full stop. Do I do I understand that somebody was this is not necessarily on a bicycle, but that there there was an an injury to someone on maybe a motorcycle at the intersection of Lily Boulevard. Um I think it was Yeah, more Yep. Yeah. That's what I thought. That was a motorcycle, however. Not okay. All right, that's good. Um, an ebike, right?

It was an ebike. That's what I thought. Okay. [laughter] Yeah, that we I mean I know I've been saying this for a while, but um if the state's not going to do a better job of legis I mean a lot of it has been legislated but we are not enforcing things like lights on bikes, things like lights on ebikes, things like helmets and um and we need to figure out uh I think a mechanism because the the enforcement goes both ways. There there are driver there are a lot of drivers with great animosity toward cyclists and there Yeah. Good evening.

Yeah. Yeah. So, with the officers that we do have that are working, they actually do address uh a lot of the bicycle issues uh specifically especially not lighted at night. So, you'll see officers quite often stopping, reinforcing what our laws are and making sure that we do have bike safety. Again, We do have uh a police department that is uh running from call to call. So as they do have that uh they will do that. Plus we also have officers on bikes that are out addressing these concerns and issues more and more often especially in the summer months. Yeah. I and and I and thank you and I'm very glad to hear that we'll continue to do so.

Yeah. I I also do feel like it cuts both ways. One thing is I mean yes obviously people who are cycling without proper protections, right? But the bigger threat obviously is the people in the cars. [laughter] Yes.

Right. Um so if they're if they are moving too quickly on city streets or going over the speed limit. Um, I I guess what I'm asking and it and it it it coordinates with the police, but I'm also thinking that it doesn't need to exclusively come from the police, but that we as a city need to develop and implement a a bike safety program that, you know, that works maybe within concert with the schools to teach kids about bike safety and how to bike safe because the number of times I see people biking the wrong way down city streets and um and kids biking right up the middle, you know what I mean? like we there are a whole bunch of moving parts in this plan and it's not it doesn't just fall on the police and it doesn't but

wholeheartedly agree and honestly I would love to help spearhead an education program for that with the other uh entities that are why don't we try before we hit peak bike season next summer why don't we try and sit down with the school district and see if we can't try to I mean because and community groups and some other Exactly we could I I think if we yeah broadened it and tried to get you fire tree and right, you know, at least you could begin training the next generation of cyclists who are going to be dangerous on city streets to do it better. [laughter] Um, and I also think that we and in the past we've had partnerships with um Elch uh like coming uh was it healthy kids? I can't think of the actual acronym what the name is, but they do a lot of bike derbies, bike helmets, and

we've worked with them in the past and we can reup that. uh they're a state department or they're a Pennsylvania Department of Transportation entity that comes in and helps with that too. So they usually give out free bike helmets at a lot of events and we can also make sure that those and reflectors and other bike safety materials. So again, we have partners that we can collaborate with too. That'd be awesome. So we got some connections established. I think that'd be a great thing. Yeah, we've done it plenty of time in the past and we're more than happy to continue. I mean, yeah, I can't I can't imagine what a pain in the butt it is as a cop to have to like, you know, address something like a person with no bike light. On the other hand, I think that is part of the role, but you know, to me, no problem addressing it if it keeps them from getting hurt. So, right. Exactly.

But thanks. All right. Thank you. I'll just add a reminder that we did sign our contract for our federal safe streets and roads for all grant and that will be also not just focused on you know uh vehicle safety but also on pedestrian and bike safety. So we're hoping for some great recommendations to come out of that as well. Fantastic. Thank you. Any other comments or questions? All right hearing see none then Mrs. Frank item 16, please. Mr. Allison, yes. Mr. Mackey, yes. Mr. Pizzy, yes. Ms. Mey, yes. Mr. Yoder,

yes. Motion passes 5-0. Item 17, except for filing water sanitary authority meeting minutes from September 2025 July controllers report. Is there a motion and a second? So moved. Second. Any comments, questions on the minutes we're filing hearing. You can see none. Mrs. Frank, item 17, please. Mr. Allison, yes. Mr. Mackey, yes. Mr. Pizzy, yes. Miss Millie, yes. Mr. Yoder,

yes. Motion passes 5-0. Item 18, announcements. Our next regularly scheduled city council meeting will be Thursday, December 11th, here um trade and transit 23rd floor, 7 p.m. Um that will be our last scheduled meeting for the year. Um upcoming additional upcoming meetings. Um Monday, December 8th, we will have a special meeting at 7 p.m. here, Trade Transit 2 for treasurer interviews. Um as I mentioned, Thursday, December 11th is our final um voting meeting for the year. Monday, January 5th, um at our at 7 p.m. is our reorganizational meeting. That will be at um the Community Theater League first floor of Trade Transit 1 due to a scheduling conflict. Um and then our first meeting of the calendar year in 2026 is Thursday, January 8th. Um before comments, I'll announce two executive sessions with there was an executive session related to legal matters on Tuesday, November 25th, and then we will also be having a brief executive session following the meeting related to um additional legal matters in real estate. Is there any comments from the public? Are there any comments from members of council? Any comments from the administration this evening? Yes. Is the the Christmas market. I just wanted to announce that is starts tomorrow um from 1 to 7 and then Saturday from 11 to 7. So there's lots of vendors and uh you know kids activities and all of

that and um at I think 6 uh somewhere in that vicinity 5 to 6 the kids can make lanterns. We're going to walk uh and then we'll walk from the German Christmas market over to the green to light the Christmas tree and all that. Uh so uh it should be a good time. A lot of fun. A lot of work has gone into it. Uh first community foundation supported it with a grant as well. Uh the huts look great. They're up. If you drive by over there at Lakeing College, [snorts] the huts are up and it looks really like a German market. So uh it's kind of cool to see. So invite everybody to come out to that. When's that? Oh, the Newberry tree lighting Wednesday at 6. I know Councilman Yod usually comes to that. Uh, when's this Wednesday? This one's coming Wednesday. Is this coming Wednesday at six o'clock? Yep. All right. Thank you.

What's that? Council. Oh, no. No. And look, I mean, I I'll I'll add an initial plug for the Newberry tree lighting. It's a It's a great event. Um, they they light the tree. They get a tree. Um, the city in the past has helped. Um, grateful for that. um on the corner of Third and I'm forgetting the street, but it's right by Arch. Arch. Thank you very much.

And um and then um sing a couple Christmas carols. Super fun. And then um they've got a excellent Santa um over in the lobby of Broadart. It's a blast. Um so definitely check it out. Definitely check it out. Um all right. Motion a second for a German. So moved. Second. All in favor?