City Council - Regular Meeting

All right, good evening everyone and welcome to tonight's Wingsport City Council meeting. It is Thursday, February 5th, 2026 and we are at Train Transit 2, third floor. Please rise for the invocation by Councilman Jonah Milikman. I'm a little rusty with prayer, so I got some help from Dr. King. Um, it's a quote from where do we go from here? Every nation must now develop an overriding loyalty to mankind as a whole in order to preserve the best in their individual societies. This call for a worldwide fellowship that lifts neighborly concern beyond one's tribe, race, class, and nation is in reality a call for an all embracing and unconditional love for all men. This often misunderstood and misinterpreted concept has now become an absolute necessity for the survival of man. When I speak of love, I'm speaking of that force which all the great religions have seen as a supreme unifying principle of life. Love is the key that unlocks the door which leads to ultimate reality. End quote. So, dear God, I ask you tonight uh to help us all keep open hearts because without an open heart, we can't have an open mind. And without open minds, well, it makes it a lot harder to get stuff done. Amen.

Amen. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Approval of city council meeting minutes from uh January 22nd, 2026. Could I have a motion, please? So moved. Second. Second. Any questions or comments about the minutes? Seeing hearing none. Mr. Milligan, yes. Mrs. Catz, yes. Ms. Millie, yes. Mr. Pizzy, yes. Mr. Ber, yes. Motion passes 5-0. Uh, item number four, we have a presentation tonight from PFM. they are joining us virtually. So that'll be up on the screens uh here in the room. Gordon, take it away.

Thank you very much. It's good to uh good to join you virtually. I am sorry I can't be there with you for this last presentation. Uh my uh I had a a family member here in our house uh break both of her wrists and uh falling down the stairs and it's made it much harder to travel here for a couple of weeks. But I I do miss seeing you in person. I am glad we're we have the opportunity to do this virtually uh as we conclude what's been I think a good a good first step uh in putting the city back on a path for financial stability. So for those who are uh coming into this new this will be like the first 60 seconds of a Netflix show where you can skip past the intro if you want to but uh for those who don't want to skip past was hired last year under the strategic management planning program. It's a grant-f funed program uh by DCD. I believe you have Jonas Carass there in attendance tonight on behalf of the department and he's been instrumental in our work all the way along. Uh it is a a program designed to fund work where we uh come into municipalities into communities and provide a financial roadmap to deal with their financial challenges. Uh last July we talked about what those challenges were. In September and October we talked about some of the options for dealing with them. Uh we worked through a very real life uh uh set of uh challenges in your 2026 budget. Uh and now the plan is done and uh has been distributed. It's a public document. Uh, and I'm tonight I'm not going to go through all 125 pages. I don't think anybody wants that. Uh, but I will go through the first five or six the executive summary and kind of give you the, uh, the highlights. I will, uh, if you have the plan in front of you, uh, I will kind of read you through on the pages. If, uh, I can try and share my screen, but I'm not sure that's how

much use that is. Let me see. All right. Well, if I if this uh if you're able to follow along off the screen, one, you have excellent site. Uh but two, uh again, this is you can download the plan and you can see the full document for yourself and uh you know, dive into whatever areas are of most interest to you. So, we started with the finances. This is a financial management plan. It's different from a comprehensive plan, which is land use. uh different from an employment plan which is you know how you hire and fill your positions. Uh this is about using your finances and your resources in the best way to advance your community's goals. So the financial plan would be alongside of a comprehensive plan or there's referencing here to a housing plan. It's it's it's part of an overall strategy. Uh we looked at the city's cash position which was very good uh and continues to be very good and that's a positive thing both it provides you a buffer against unexpected events. It gives you reserves when you need them and it's uh uh helps your credit rating and all of which is is beneficial. You have good financial reserves which is a little different from cash. This includes uh things that are not cash but should eventually be converted into them. maybe money that's owed to the city by other governments or from one fund to the other. Uh and this is what financial institutions and credit rating agencies and banks focus on. They focus on your cash and this thing that's called fund balance. All of that said, we would not be here if everything was perfect. Uh we were here because of what we call a structural deficit. This is the city's recurring revenues. primarily real estate tax, earned income tax, and a handful of fees grow more slowly than your recurring expenses, which is prior uh primarily personnel expenses. So, salaries, health insurance, pension, overtime. It's also non-personnel

expenses. It's everything that city government does on a daily basis. So, it's the electricity in your building. It's the gas in your police cars. It's uh uh the legal support you use. All of that is part of your uh of your operational budget, your general fund budget. And your situation is not unusual. I just gave a presentation earlier this morning in a highly rated uh Chester County tiny municipality, very leafy green um uh pretty in its own way. And they also have structural financial challenges um in their own way. But uh being together in the same boat does not prevent you from having to row it a different direction. And so the baseline projection that you hear have here that we talked through in detail in July and is the first plan of this first chapter of this plan. So there's I don't know 20 pages if you want to dig deep into why this baseline deficit exists. Uh this is the projection we did in July of last year. You do not have a $5.1 million deficit to start this year. We worked through the 2026 budget process and we closed most of that. You are still using some degree of reserves. We talked about the fact that the 20206 budget is, depending on your preferred analogy, either a band-aid or a bridge to something better. Uh, but we did not magically close the deficit in the span of 60 days. What we were really doing was trying to uh buy some time and create some space to do some things that will have a long lasting impact and benefit on Williamsport. So, that's where I'll spend most of my time tonight. We did talk about the management review where we uh met with the different departments. Uh talked about some of the city's largest operational needs. If you it's showing up on the screen, that's a shot of the city's uh police headquarters which is in the old an old uh train station. Uh and we talked about some of the operational needs and those are woven throughout the plan. There are two big areas that the plan focuses on and there

are two that we talked about a fair amount over the last uh I guess it's nine or ten months now. The first one is home rule and I know you've already started on that. Uh and the plan makes it pretty very clear hopefully uh it's discussed in almost every single chapter how important going home rule is for the financial stability of the city. There are multiple reasons you could go home rule. Our focus is financial. You simply stated you need the flexibility that home rule provides to uh to change your resident earned income tax so that you have not just one lever to close budget gaps, the real estate tax, but two in terms of the real estate tax and the earned income tax. Uh they talked about the fact that that's a long process. It's not it's something that you decide to do today and it's done tomorrow. It's not actually something the people in the room decide to do at all. Uh it has to start with council. Uh council I think you already have done the ordinance that puts the question on the ballot. Uh and then after that a number of residents have to uh circulate petitions and run for positions on what's called the government study commission. If you go back to your high school civics and you remember the continental constitution where each state sent a couple of people to write the constitution. Nobody gets designated that way but same concept. Uh it it is not city council or the state or PFM or anyone else that writes or looks into the charter. It's an elected body of officials. Uh assuming two things happen in May and both have to happen. One, the electorate votes in favor of studying home rule. It's not a an elect it's not a the first vote is not whether to go home rule, but whether to study it or not. And assuming that there are enough people who get their nominating petitions in and get elected, then the government study commission is formed. And that happens uh if the election goes through in in May, if we're talking about the primary,

it happens pretty much immediately after that, a week or two after that. Then that body deliberates on the current form of government, decides whether or not to pursue home rule. That decision has to get made no later than February of next year. Could be faster. Uh if once that decision is made, the Government Study Commission drafts a charter, that would have to happen no later than November. Again, could be faster. And then the goal, the vote would be probably September, I'm sorry, the the vote would be likely November of next year on whether to go home rule and then that would give you flexibility to change your tax uh structure starting in January. It's a long process. We talked about that. Um, it's a critical process to your financial stability. We talked about that, too. Uh, and the the plan goes in depth into what home rule means, why it's worth pursuing, uh, and how and and how you would go through the process. The second major area of focus is that back to that picture that we showed earlier, this uh, it is the police uh, bureau headquarters and we tried to provide a roadmap to answer a couple of questions simultaneously. What should the city do with the old city hall uh which sits uh vacant? How should the city think about providing a uh new police headquarters? And how do you should the city think about paying for a new police headquarters? So, as we've laid it out, the this year would be the year to uh do two things. Uh one's drawn out specifically in the plan, one's a little more subtle. The first is decide what to do with city hall. Uh which we do not believe is adequate to uh be be a police station. Again, uh even if you did have the plans to retrofit it, you don't have the money to retrofit it. It is a risk financially. It is a risk

physically if you don't uh continue to upkeep it. And it's just a lost opportunity because it's a beautiful building in a really nice part of downtown that right now is only accessible to whoever has to maintain it. Uh so our the plan the plan is described here would be this year to be to return it to productive use. Uh whatever that means uh I know there's been proposals before uh we would emphasize and and value any proposal that it retains the historical beauty and nature of the building. It is really pretty. It shouldn't be turned into a parking lot. Um it should be something a use that that builds off of its its uh unique structure. uh but this would be the year to put that back uh into productive use in some fashion. The less drawn out part of that is you still have records and uh things in the building that need to come out uh that need to be in terms of of hard paper records need to be digitized in terms of things that uh aren't record aren't aren't paper records and can't be uh trans turned into an electronic file. You'll have to figure out a way to deal with those two. But we didn't want to just say, "Hey, get rid of the building." without uh recognizing that there is some leg work that needs to be done to prepare you to do that. We did suggest that the city apply for a grant under this same program. After tonight is over, you will have access to grants to implement things that are in the plan. Uh and one of those that you can get support would be to digitize the records that are in uh the finan that are in city hall. so that you once you have a designated use for it, uh you're closer to being able to turn over the building. So, that doesn't solve the police facility question. Uh it you could, you know, sell or lease home uh the the city hall and that wouldn't obviously create a new headquarters for the police building. Uh next year would be the year to plan out what you need both in terms of the facility and in terms of the staffing.

Uh we talked about how many officers you need. We talked about whether they're in the right positions. Think of them as kind of lieutenant, sergeant, captain, that sort of thing. Next year would be the year to figure that out. The plan explains more what quote unquote figuring that out would be. Uh but next year you would be doing that in tandem hopefully with the home rule process. These two uh these two are think of them as two sides of the same zipper. the home rule process and the uh the city police building. Then in 2028, once you've reached the point hopefully where home rule has been passed and you have that taxing flexibility, that would put you in a position to actually go out and borrow money to build a building. Uh I don't I'm not aware of you having a building that you could just rent or purchase from somebody. Uh it does not mean that your building could not be on the same physical plot where your where the current headquarters is. The police officers when we met with them talked about some of the benefits of that location. The parking lot. Uh it would need to it would need work. It was built to be a train museum, not a police station. And those are obviously not the same thing. Uh and you will need money to do it. You're not going to come up with this from cash or bake sales or anything else. You're going to have to go into the capital market and borrow the money. But if the city is able to get through home rule and put the plan in place and uh you know put the the city hall into a the old city hall into a more productive use then that will put you in a in a on the path to do that. Very easy for me to say this is all the things you should do in eight or 10 minutes. Very challenging to do them but try and there will there will definitely be questions. There will be issues that you can and should work through. Uh we are not uh divine oracles. There will be things we haven't thought of that you'll have to talk through, but trying to lay out the uh the large parts of the plan for to give you a sense of what needs

what should happen when to put you in a place where you want to be. Those are not the only two parts of the plan. They probably home rule and the police building probably take up I don't know 15 to 10 to 15 pages of uh the third section of the plan which are our recommendations. the executive summary, which is the document that I'm kind of skimming through here, uh, gives you kind of the highlights of of the other, uh, the other initiatives that we think are kind of top of mind. But the way I would think about it is on this table right here. So, this is our effort to take the recommendations that are in the plan that are spelled out and to say, okay, what should I be doing when? So, that first section, the gray section, those should all look should look familiar. Those are the options that we used to close the 2026 budget. And while the home rule process goes through, they would be necessary for the 2027 budget as well. Uh 2027, no matter what you do on the home rule side, you will not be through the process that quickly. Uh so 2027 will have to be to some extent another bridge budget to put you in position uh to achieve stronger stability. It it does not mean that you should spend whatever you want or this year doesn't matter or next year doesn't matter but we want to be realistic about what's achievable in terms of achieving uh uh in terms of the timeline for putting you in a better position for financial stability next year. These are the next year this year this year is 2026. These are the things that we believe are the priorities for this year. Uh some of them higher than others. The ones labeled in blue are things that we believe you can and should apply to uh again this program for a grant to fund some of these things. They're not the only things in the plan that would be grant eligible. They're just our suggestions for where we would start. Um you can see the home rule process, city hall, digitizing records, some of those things I have hit

on already. Um some of the other things that are probably not as uh top of mind perhaps but that we would emphasize for this year uh your planning and economic development uh program the department the staff the programs but the whole initiative the whole area is your opportunity to play offense. Home rule is not going to save you financially forever. It is definitely will give you a better financial stab uh give you better financial stability. It is hugely unimportant and I don't want to understate that, but it does not magically fix everything. The best way for you to grow is for your local economy to grow, for your for Williamsport to have the right housing, for it to have the right jobs, for it to have to be a place where people want to live and want to work. Because as you become more attractive, your tax revenues will grow quote unquote naturally, meaning without you having to change the tax rates. And that is where true financial stability comes from. And other things are necessary and other things are important. But in the long term, in the long game, that's what you want. What we heard repeatedly when we talked to people and we said, "What is the biggest obstacle for economic or community development? Where would you start?" And we talked with of course a couple of cu some of the council members, we talked with the mayor, we talked with um department heads. I had a conversation with a gentleman from uh from the planning commission who I believe is a a realtor in the area and the answer always came back to housing and it makes sense. Pennsylvania local t local government tax structure rewards you when people move to town. If a big business moves to town and hires adds a hundred jobs that are really well-paying, there could be benefits to that uh for the community, but the benefit to local government is pretty minimal unless the people who fill those 100 jobs happen to live in Williamsport. You would actually be better off if you had a new housing development in town

because those people would move in, they would pay real estate tax, and they would pay the earned income tax. You're not in a place to know exactly what you should do for housing right now. Uh we have two initiatives that focus on it. On a strategic standpoint, we recommend completing the housing study which I believe is already underway. This is where you answer the question, what are the gaps in our market? Where do we have demand that we can meet? What should we be thinking about? And how does housing connect to other things? Because people don't just buy houses because the building looks cool. There's a variety of different reasons that they buy them. because of proximity to assets, because of school districts, because of proximity to jobs, whatever it is. But having an understanding of much like this process, which starts with understanding your finances and then going from there, completing that housing study this year is a priority. The second part of it, which is more mechanical, has to do with residential rental inspections. We talked about code enforcement and we also in in all of our conversations heard a pretty clear and unified voice of people being frustrated uh with some of the challenges in terms of code enforcement in terms of having uh having a program that ensures that you have safe quality houses that have that keeps the community clean. And we talked to the codes department and we focused in on the residential rental inspections which I want to be clear is not the only thing your code department does. Your codes department does zoning. Uh your codes department views uh checks the health of local businesses and restaurants and those sorts of things. But this is a really big important part of the program. And you have an ordinance that requires inspections of each rental property on a certain schedule. It's specific enough where it actually even lays out which neighborhoods are supposed to be inspected when. Uh we looked at what the city is doing now and this is covered more in the plan, but we could not find evidence that the program is either effective operationally or financially.

In other words, it's not covering its costs and I'm not sure it's it's it's producing the results you want either. There are reasons for that. Uh when I when I was there, we talked about the fact that code is the one area in the city where you are spending less now than you were five years ago. uh and how this is a if it's a priority, those two trends don't really align with each other. At the same time, you're not in a position to double down to say, "Well, let's hire three more code inspectors and see if that works." You candidly don't even really have the information technology in place to measure what's working. So rather than try and rebuild the whole car, we're recommending that you go through the process of seeing what's out there in terms of outsourced rental inspection support. This is a service that other communities contract out to other places. It's not going to be perfect. And you might decide after a couple of years of using somebody outside of city hall that you want to bring bring it back inside city hall. And that's fine. There are o there are advantages to having city employees who know the community do this type of work, but there's no advantage to having a program that's just not working after 2026. So all of that in the next 11 months and obviously some of these things can and and will slip, but we're trying to provide a sense of of priority here. Uh for next year, I talked about, you know, kind of how home rule and the police building processes work together. After you'd have the study for housing, you need the housing strategy. That's something that could be funded in part through this program. In my mind's eye, a housing strategy brings together things like how do we think about code enforcement? How do we think about LERA uh and and uh relatively small but important types of tax programs you have to encourage residential development? How do we think about zoning and parking? Two of the most uh two of the most basic mechanical and important things that will impact where people

want to live and to put together a strategy uh that you can roll out and and act on. The other thing that's in the planning uh that in the document that was brought to our attention is think rethinking where the planning and zoning functions lie. I don't think this is something that needs to happen immediately. Uh but the plan discusses where you discusses areas where you might be able to get uh more synergy and and stronger uh yeah synergy is probably the right word all consultant as it is uh better results from having your zoning department which right now is married to code enforcement work closer with planning not a not a matter of changing the personnel I think you could have the same personnel just have them working in in in a different combination but rethinking uh how you organize those functions again covered in uh the latter part of the recovery plan. There are some other things in here building on the joint fire services. You know, last year council moved forward and approved a arrangement with South Williamsport. I would use this year to try that out to work out the kinks and then in a year or two when you're comfortable with it, I would pursue something similar with other communities if they don't pursue you first. you have the capacity, you have the expertise, you have the personnel, and you have the resources to be the hub of a strong regional fire system. Doesn't mean you should do it right away. Uh obviously there are other things that are priorities. Uh but that is how we view the uh the fire department and how we've kind of uh presented them in this plan. There are some other things that are in here that are more bread and butter that are related to the budget process. There are some that are related to collective bargaining. Uh that's the in that's negotiations with the unions. Uh well at the time we completed this and maybe they still are. They were in a bit of a flux. I think three of the four unions were in negotiations. None of them had new contracts yet. Um we lay out some strategies for how you should think about cash compensation, how you should think about health insurance, which is

probably the most important lever you have in terms of co cost control and uh managing some other liabilities. what we, you know, some thoughts on workers compensation and cashing out on used leave and some of those those are that's really inside baseball, but we tried to give you a a comprehensive look at the uh uh at your compensation costs. It's an aggressive plan. It's a uh it's an ambitious plan. Uh it's hopefully [laughter] hopefully a thoughtful and an effective plan. Uh but it's designed to give you a place to again we talked to build off of the bridge. If the 2026 budget is an effective bridge, it has to be a bridge to something. This is the answer start of the answer to what that something is. Gordon, as always, very detailed and very appreciated. Thank you very much for that. Um, as I went through this, obviously you you touched on all the major points that were my concern. Um, and you bring up some other things too that I'd like to bounce off of you here just in open discussion. Um, you talk about housing being one of the priorities. Um, Williamsport, just like many other cities, has a very unique situation though here where we are completely landlocked. We can't really go out and buy a a farmer's field and put a housing development there with 50 new houses. Um but the adjacent communities have been able to do that and benefit from it uh very much so over the past 30 years and they've seen a lot of growth. Um it for a community like ours, what is a situation that we should potentially look at for housing boost?

Yeah, it's a it's a good question and a common question across Pennsylvania. I was I forget where I was. Oh, I was at the was at the National League of Cities conference and I was talking to somebody from either Utah or Colorado and they were telling me about all this annexation and growth stuff and I said, "That's great. Pennsylvania, everybody has the same borders they did 250 years ago." And they looked at me as if I had three heads because just the Pennsylvania's uniqueness in not being able to annex and grow in the way that you described is uh is challenging to put it mildly. So, here's not being a housing expert, but here's how I would think about it. Uh, from a financial perspective, you for starters, you need to make sure that you have market rate housing. I'm not saying that you don't need affordable housing or transition housing or all of those sorts of things, too. But from a financial perspective, it's housing that has that adds to your tax base, both in terms of the real estate tax and the earned income tax that helps you financially. uh a big tower of senior apartments underwritten by a big tax increase where most of the people who are going to live in it are retired and don't have income. You you might need that too. You might need that for non-financial reasons, but it's not going to help you financially. I would think about the code enforcement because you're right, you can't just you can't do what's called green field development where you take, you know, Farmer Joe's field and you turn it into houses. You have to do what's called kind of gray field development or brown well, I don't know, brownfield development. That means something a little different, but where you take the houses you have and you make sure that they're up to code and you provide an environment uh where the value of those houses uh rises. If if you does this mean gentrification if that's in the back of someone's mind, I don't know. I don't you have a long way to go before I think you have to worry about gentrification. That's from a financial perspective what I see.

Your plan department a lot about this. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead, counciloman. Can I just break break in to ask um you to differentiate between uh I mean from your perspective from the perspective of financial economic development in the city does it ming matter if the housing is owned or rented? Uh, [sighs] you know, it's a really good question, Councilwoman, and I I fight against years of hearing people say to me that people who own their house are more likely to be invested in their house and less likely to be transitory and more likely to keep their property in in shape, right? I'm not

I'm not sure that's always true. [laughter] Um, I I do think I I g I guess I really don't know is the honest answer. Uh I I guess we've been discussing the city has some barriers in place um in terms of codes to things like condos, condominiums um within the

and I'm trying to figure out whether those are regulations we should be trying to work on as part of trying to create more owner occupied spaces even if it's say portions of buildings instead of entire buildings because we also have a lot of old housing stock that if the if you were to retain that housing stock would probably be better suited for a lot of um smaller families and and couples if it were say two condos instead of a single owner occupied house. Um so I'm trying to figure out whether that's something that we should be looking at as part of improving our housing opportunities or whether um whether the I it seems as though the prevailing mindset nationally is that rental versus own is not as big a deal as it was considered 20 years ago.

That's right. Yeah. Def and you know we we work I know I've referenced them throughout this process. We wrote at the same time we were writing this plan, we wrote one for the city of Eastston, which is on the border of uh it's near Allentown and Bethlehem in what's called the Lehigh Valley. Their earned income tax revenues are growing by 8 to 10% a year because of condos. If you go to city hall, they have one giant condo on one side of city hall and one giant condo on the other. And the last time I was there, they were really excited about more condos. Um I I it's a kind of a weasly but probably somewhat you know intellectually consistent answer to say well what does the market tell you you what do people want where does the market where is the market going where is the demand um and that is probably part of the answer and it may not be for rent it may not be for home ownership it may be for nice rental apartments that are in your downtown area where you could take advantage of the assets that way But maybe the highest demand is not the picket fence with the backyard with the dog and the two kids.

Got it. Um, sorry to interrupt. I just wanted to be clear about what we were discussing when we were discussing. Thank you. Nice. Um, are there any other questions from members of council about the presentation? Liz Mey, several. Well, a couple anyway, please. Um, uh, so I'm hearing from you that, uh, that Eastston's in a pretty good financial situation. Would that be an accurate statement? Yes.

Okay. [laughter] Um I'm I was trying to figure out during your presentation um there's the concept that home rule will at least for a period of time perhaps help us stabilize our um expenditures versus income uh imbalance that we currently have in the city. And then obviously we'll need to build on that. But I was curious how many third-class cities in the state of Pennsylvania you would describe as being in a position where they're not constantly looking for additional funding. I I feel

demands are many. So [laughter] who's not looking for additional funding? And I I know that's that's not what you meant, but that's I would say so I would say Eastston is in a good position of the ones that I've worked with and I haven't worked with with all of them. Eastston's in a good financial position. Lancaster is in a much better financial position now than they were before home rule. Uh and I I spoke with Mayor Sarra before she she left office and it's clear that they have moved from a perspective of thinking of city government's own financial survival [clears throat] to an outward focus. What's what's what does growth look like for Lancaster? And it would look different there than it it would somewhere else. Reading's in a better position now than they were uh under oversight. and they're uh trying to deal with it. It's a different It's a population where 50 to 60% of the population speaks Spanish. It's a larger city. It's one of the few in Pennsylvania that has had population growth. I would I would consider them to be relatively strong. I don't work with Scranton, but from what I've heard, Scranton is in a relatively strong position.

Okay. I'm just kind of um and all of those communities are home rule. That doesn't mean it's it's not it's not causation, but I do think there's strong correlation. [laughter]

Thanks. Yeah. Well, I I feel as though I've been on city council now for 16 years, and there has never been a point where it wasn't basically a scramble to attempt to fund the basic needs of city government. Um and uh and it gets you into this mindset that there isn't anything else that is possible. It would certainly be delightful if um we achieve home rule and then we achieve perhaps a measure of ability to breathe and think as much or more about the needs of the community in the long term um than just the kind of a short-term funding um situation. Uh along those lines, um the city is now up to date on our audits and we have and we've had two clean audits behind us um which is good. Uh so we can begin to discuss the concept of actually borrowing more money and our and our debt is slightly below um where I had expected it to be frankly which is which is also good news. Um but uh what is the responsible debt ceiling for a city of our size in current thinking?

So that it's a it's a good question. There's a statutory there are statutory functions there. The answer to that would be the and it's it's a vague a vague one but I think the right one or a broad one but I think the right one. The amount of debt that you can afford over a multi-year period comfortably doesn't mean the amount of debt you can afford today that's zero. And even in you know the leafy green Chester County town that I was in earlier today that answer for them would be zero. they don't have enough to uh they don't have a lot of of extra capacity to just add debt and not worry about it. But there is an amount that you can take on that's responsible. And there are ratios. I I uh when I'm I I don't work on the the debt issuance side of our firms, but there are actually specific ratios when you work with what's called a quote unquote financial advisor. uh someone who can take you through the debt process where they'll tell you that your debt should be whatever it is 8% or no more than 8% of your operations or your debt plus your pension should be no more than 12% of your funding or your debt per capita should be XYZ. There are actually specific metrics. I don't have them uh mastered, but there are specific metrics that that will give you pointers beyond my more generic well what could we really afford answer

and and I assume you're telling me sorry when you when you site specifically like in 8% of operations you're talking about debt service. Yes. Correct. Yep. Um I was going to say we are way over that man. [laughter] Right. Right. Well if you if you if you Yeah. you added retiry health insurance or whatever. There are there are metrics that pull those things apart and to help you think those things through. So is what I'm hearing from you that perhaps we should be consulting with someone um on um issuance of on issuance of new debt before that's something that we just take on willy-nilly or am I hearing from you that is to a certain extent dictated by the things that we need to purchase?

Uh no it's the former you Well, it's both. I mean the first thing that a financial adviser is going to ask you is why do you want to issue debt? What are you trying to buy? What are your goals? If it's a good financial advisor, right? Um but yes, you should you should get a a you should get a financial adviser to guide you through that process. We we very strongly recommend that. Okay. And that would be a role that PFM could fill FOR INSTANCE. I'M TRYING VERY HARD not to say what is what is a factual statement but PFM is the largest financial advisor in the country. Um but even if you chose someone other than PFM which other places have done you should get one. You should get help. But yes there is a PF

I guess. Are you implying an ongoing financial adviser or are you implying a financial adviser specific to taking on new debt? Sorry I'm

the latter. I I I mean, look, I'd love I'd like to work with you as your financial adviser in an ongoing capacity in the capacity we're we're talking about right now or we've been talking about in this meeting. But the finan there is a financial advisor role we could which you could think of as similar to an underwriter or a lawyer or a mortgage broker. Those types of things where they are specific function, specific services that they provide at a specific time in your life and then that time is over and you don't use them actively. Got it. Okay, thanks Gordon. Um, all right. I think that's actually most of my questions. I just wanted to kind of understand the um while I've come to the conclusion that we probably will need to take on new debt, I wanted to understand some of the ramifications of that. Um, and uh and and how that would look for us moving forward. Um but it uh I think any resources that you might be able to direct our way Gordon um that would whether it would services or recommendation of of firms that have specialized in this um for municipalities obviously we have many financial um

uh firms here in the city but I but I think municipal advising is a is a completely different ballax. Um okay and uh and then the last question I suppose would be that when we've digested this report to what extent are you available or is someone available from PFM if we have questions or concerns moving forward over the next year or two I don't know built into I hope the answer is is very available. So, I mean the you know you have home, right? What's that? Said you're stuck home, right?

Well, [laughter] physically available as as soon as we work through physical therapy and a number of other things. But, uh, you know, it in the in the short term, if you have questions about the plan, about home rule, about things, you have my email and you have my phone number to have conversations. in a more formal way, coming to council and working through the 2027 budget, working with you on home rule because if if you get the question on the ballot and if you have the government study commission, one of the things that people are going to ask is, well, all right, how does this tax thing work and what should we be thinking about? There are actually circumstances in which you could increase the re earned income tax and roll back the real estate tax where you could actually rebalance. uh it doesn't have to be one added on top of the other, but you have to think that through. We're obviously well positioned to do that because we have the financial model and that's in essence the the the the service we've been providing already. So, I hope this is the end of a first step but in a continued relationship um uh with the city of of Williamsport.

Thank you, Gordon. We appreciate your insight over the last several months and we look forward to taking full advantage of it here in the next year or two. Um we certainly hope to hope to take full advantage of it in the next year or two. Thank you. Anything else from other members of council?

I I do. Eric, this is Bonnie Catz. Um you talked about having like the codes outsourcing that and I guess you've worked with other uh cities and communities that have outsourced. We have to a certain extent but you know you hear over the over the period of time that there isn't that much um they're not doing it up to par when somebody's in house. Have you experienced that?

Yeah, that's a good question. So our view on outsourcing is it's never a it's never a magic solution. It's not a philosophical thing. This isn't one of these government bad, private sector good, private sector can do it better. And the the way we've described it in the plan is to one think about what you want from the program. You have one set up through your ordinances. Is there anything that you would change to say we want to increase the frequency? we want to change what uh what counts as being quality or not and then to go out to a number of uh to see what the market has to see what providers you have and then to issue the RFP. So, it's not to go out and hire, you know, Joe's Bar and Grill and rental property inspections tomorrow. It's it's to be more deliberate about that because of exactly what you've said. What I I have I seen communities outsource rental inspections and these types of things. Yeah, it's a really common force multiplier because there are private entities that do that. And the value the the benefit or the the attractiveness from a from a private provider perspective is rental inspections happen with a uh a known cycle. Uh there is a designated revenue stream. people pay for rental permits and they pay for or they may pay for rental inspections and it is a relatively known body of of population that you're serving. There are communities that don't know where all of their rental properties are and that's understandable. Contrast that with trying to hire somebody to monitor weeds or trash or you know high weeds. That is not something the private sector is well attuned to taking on. All of that said, I have seen communities bring it in uh go from in-house to outsourcing and then once they're at a place where they feel like they are ready to tack it back inside again, do that again. Bring it

back in and say, "Okay, now we're on better whatever it is, we have better technology. We have better financial footing. We're in a place where we can invest in our staff." whatever it is that would have to get you to cross that threshold where you could say, "Okay, now we're ready to bring it back inhouse." Because the the most common argument I hear is city employees are more likely to be more familiar with the community they serve than some sort of private, you know, mercenary uh code inspector for hire type of model. Again, I'm not really sure I believe that. I think it depends on who you hire as your private uh as as your private provider. Uh but it it is it is not a it is not a good versus evil outsource versus insource sort of thing. So you don't want to take forever to do it and we have laid out a process in the plan where I think you should probably try and complete that by the end of the year. Uh but you're you're right to have some um uh to go into that with eyes wide open about what a private uh provider can really do.

Thank you so much, Gordon. Open my ears and eyes. Thank you. [laughter] If there's nothing else in from other members of council, Gordon, we certainly appreciate everything that you've done for us thus far and we will be talking with you more in the very near future as we uh embark down this road of the home rule.

Thank you very much. I've really really enjoyed working with all of you. Uh Williamsport is a really cool town uh and I think it has a lot of great assets and a really bright future. So I hope to work with you to towards that. Thank you very much, sir. All right, we will go ahead and move on from that to item number five, limited courtesy of the floor. I believe we've had no requests this evening. If I happen to make a mistake because Mrs. Frank isn't here with that, we can revisit. Mr. Frank, did we have any requests for limited courtesy of the floor? We did not. Okay. Thank you very much. And then we'll move on to item number six then, please. an ordinance repealing and reenacting the section 111.02 of the codified ordinances in final reading.

Can I have a motion, please? Moved. Second.

Okay. So, what this is is the committee of the whole that we talked about uh two weeks ago. Um we are not eliminating any of the committees that we have on the books already. uh we are simply creating a new committee which will take over the majority of the functions that those individual individual committees did. Uh so we can have a little bit more of a streamlined process. We can get more people involved in that uh process of committee meetings and then it makes it a little bit easier logistically for the administration as well and members of council to have one meeting to attend versus three or four. So, do we have any questions from members of council regarding that? Seeing hearing none, Mrs. Frank.

Mr. Milikin, yes. Mrs. Catz, yes. Miss Millie, yes. Mr. Pizzy, yes. Mr. Ber, yes. Motion passes 5. Item number seven, please. An ordinance transfer ordinance number seven, 2024 in final reading. Can I have a motion, please? So moved. Second, Miss Livermore. Good evening. Um, this is the second reading of the transfer ordinance for the 2024 budget. We do this each time we complete an audit. Um, we adjust each of the departments to make sure everything is leveled out. Um, does anybody have any questions?

Seeing hearing none, Mrs. Frank? Mr. Millikin? Yes. Mrs. Catz, yes. Ms. Millie, yes. Mr. Pizzy, yes. Mr. Ber, yes. Motion passes 5-0. Thank you. You're very welcome. Thank you. And number eight, please. Resolution governing bodies authorizing resolution. Can I have a motion, please? So moved. Second.

All right. So what we have here before us is essentially allowing us to seek more funding um under the stamp program. Um there has been a phase one which we've gone through already um capstone by Gordon and his presentation this evening and then we have phase two of the stamp program. um there are going to be some opportunities for us to seek that funding. And this is also saying that we are going to be on the hook, so to speak, for 10% of that um amount that's out there. Do we have any questions regarding the item before us?

Liz Millie. Um, if I'm correct, Eric, this is basically utilizing the first round of funding from the strategic management planning program. Correct. What's left in that? Should we ask? Yep. Okay. He's going to be able to answer that much better than I can. Please. Sure. Please. The wording is a little oblique, so we might as well clarify for the sake of the record here. if you can um please clarify the

um so this the the city has out of the first round at the our first round round of strategic management planning um we had I believe almost $91,000 left in funding that we could apply for through the state um and utilize applying for that funding at this time to support the home rule initiative that we have placed on the ballot in May would allow us to make more or less simultaneous use of the funding if the formal initiative succeeds in May. Correct. That is correct. Yes. Whereas, if we wait, we would not be able to to apply for the round of funding that will be open to us once we've completed the current round of strategic management planning until June, possibly not receiving it until closer to the end.

Yeah, that's a correct that's a correct way to put it. So, with the stamp, there are separate phases. Each phase, the city is able to get up to $200,000 from DCED. With the 10% match, that means the projects could be $220,000 per year. Um, what this resolution would allow you to do is to use the rest of the money from the stamp phase one um to fund the government study commission if it were to pass in May. Um, if not, then you can come in for June to do stamp phase 2. Again, apply for that $200,000 a year. Um, you would do that every single year for the next five years while in this program. Okay. Um, so we have $200,000 remaining from the allocation from previous stamp in total or or $90,000, excuse me. Yeah, from stamp phase one.

From stamp phase one. Okay. Um, excellent. And then we will not be able to apply for stamp phase 2 funding until we've closed out this phase one. That's correct. Yeah. So, you can't have more than one project going at a time. So, if uh home roll were to pass, that process takes nine months for the first phase. Again, it goes through uh the ballots and if it passes that, you have another nine months. So, you're looking at approximately 18 months until you can come in for the next phase of funding. Okay. Um, so we've got a timeline of maybe early uh 28 before we could begin to apply for any new funding. Okay. Um, that still strikes me as probably the the wisest move. Um, so excellent. Thank you for clar. Yeah.

So, without this without this phase being complete the and the home rule study being done with the consultants, um, there's really nothing else that we it would we would benefit from from embarking down this road any further. Right. Any other questions from members of council? Seeing Seeing and hearing none. Mrs. Frank. Mr. Milikut. Yes. Mrs. Catz. Yes. Ms. Mey. Yes. Mr. Bizzy. Yes. Mr. Ber. Yes. Motion passes 5-0. Item number nine, please. Mrs. Frank. A resolution honoring Gary Nar. Can I have a motion, please? So move.

Second. So what we have before us tonight is a resolution honoring Gary Nar for his distinguished service to the city of Williamsport. Whereas Gary Nar has uh faithfully served the residents of our city with distinction, integrity uh and dedication throughout his 15 years of ser of service starting in 2011. Whereas Gary Nar has served as zoning administrator for the city of Wayneport throughout his 15 years and the last four years as zoning and codes administrator. Whereas Mr. Nar has displayed a leadership of excellence to his team in the department of codes with integrity and has earned the respect of the administration and his fellow co-workers the and members of city council. Whereas Mr. Nar has served in active duty in the United States military for 30 years from 1982 to 2011 serving his country with dignity courage in which we as citizens will be forever grateful. Whereas Mr. Nar's contribution to our city's progress and his example of public service have left an indelible mark on our municipal government. Now therefore, be it resolved that the city council does hereby express its profound gratitude to Gary Nar for his outstanding service in our community for the city of Williamsport and will miss his leadership skills. Be it therefore resolved that this resolution be spread upon the minutes of the city council and that a certified copy be presented to Gary Nar as a token of of appreciation for his dedication for his dedicated service to our city and its and its residents for his military service to the United States of America. Gary Nar, thank you very much. We greatly appreciate that. Is there anything from

Eric? Can I chime in here? This is Bonnie. Absolutely. May, Bonnie.

Gary, you know how much I appreciate everything you've done for our city. You know, at times I'm I was really upset and angered at our our uh administration because I don't know if they respected everything that you did. You you know, people don't realize the heart and soul that you put into this city. and you you you pulled things out that you know out of difficult situations at times and you know I know we're going to miss you tremendously because you are one person that did have the heart and soul of the city uh in your hands and I I I really just want to tell you it's been an honor to know you Gary and hopefully we get to see one another again.

Thank you. Bye. Is there anything else from other members of council? Thanks for all your hard work, Gary. I uh really appreciate it. Um and I like I said, I know we only got to I didn't really get to work alongside of you, but as a as a resident of Williamsport, I appreciate 15 years um of dedication to Williamsport and I mean and thank you for your service to um in the army. Liz Millie,

I uh have only just realized that I have um been with the city longer than Gary. [laughter] And yet, Gary, I think you've accomplished more. [laughter] Um we uh um thank you very much. It has been I remember your uh terrible subterranean office in uh in city hall and um and we've um we've been we've been through through a lot here in the city, but we appreciate you sticking with us for this long and I am sure that you are um headed out to a a lovely and rosy retirement, but we will miss you here. Mrs. Frank, Mr. Milikin,

yes. Mrs. Catz, yes. [clears throat] Ms. Millie, yes. Mr. Pizzy, yes. Mr. Ber, yes. Motion passes 5-0. We're going to jump around a little bit then, Gary. Since it's your moment, I'm going to have you come up to the podium. We're going to go to item number 14. Got a land development uh on Malberry Street by Alan Emerson. Good evening, President Ber and members of council.

Good evening, President Ber, members of council. What I present to you tonight is a land development request from Allen Emerson Company. The property is located at the corner of Malberry and Vabella. It is within this central business district. What they are proposing is to construct a 36x50 restaurant which will house an office as well as a dining area. It'll also have provide 17 parking parking stalls. Even though it is not a requirement for parking within the central business district, they are going to have 17 stalls. The plan was reviewed by Eric Smithg, the storm water authority. It was reviewed by Bill Scott for storm water. It was also reviewed by Scott Williams from the community development and our city planner. Um, there were some questions at planning regarding some concerns as far as the plan itself. The plan that you had before you has been the updated plan. They addressed the several questions that were brought up at planning and I'm going to briefly go over those real quickly. The first concern was the parking layout. They had drive-in parking. Um, the concern was is because of the restriction of the lot, the the turning radius of getting in and out of these parking. So, what they the developer as well as talking with planning decided to do angled parking where they'll actually lose one parking stall, but it'll make it more feasible for people to get in and out without having to have the concern for that. Um, the the second concern that they had was brought up about refues. Um, normally in situations, what you do is you're required to basically have, you know, in restaurants and things like that, it's not a requirement, but you place a dumpster. um instead of a dumpster because of the concern of getting in and out as a with a dumpster vehicle within that short confinement. They're going to basically have a refuge area, but it will be fenced in and it won't be a dumpster. It'll be merely cans and stuff will make it smaller and easier for something less than a dumpster to get in

there. Um also they also were adding landscaping in into the plan. And again, you do have copies of all the updated plans. Um the other question was is the grading and utility plan wasn't sufficient or they didn't have a detailed one and the reason why they had not is because it was again it is a paper it is a parking lot it's currently owned by the parking authority. So basically there were going to be minor grading so they did add it and it is provided for you at this time. So they did address that. Um the other question was as a concern as far as the roof drains. roof drains. Again, the storm water aspect was reviewed by Eric Smith Bill and and with with his positive recommendation as well as Bill Scott. Normally, what happens is in the building permit side of it, you'll address that because that's based off of the building and meeting code where it's going to funnel, where it's going to flow. So when providing council approves this land development when they come back for the building permit side of it that will be addressed on there as well as one of the other questions on there said it did not indicate where the doors were and again during the the phase of the architectural drawings once they're completed that will be submitted to the bureau codes and Glenn Kurander who's our building inspector will take a look at that make sure it meets all the requirements for the building code aspect. Um the other questions were obviously was where the water line was going out to Malberry Street. Again, that was addressed with um Eric Smith Gall and Bill Scott of the Storm Water Authority and it did meet the requirement. Um but they did they did place that on the plan. The other question obviously was the fencing and again the fencing when it comes to it. What they will be required to do is providing council approves the land development plan. it will come back before planning and council to basically make sure it meets 1379, which is the city's downtown design standard. So, you'll see um elevation views of the building. You'll see the the type of fencing that they're putting, where they're putting this fence, and again, that will all be in phase the second

phase that you get as far as when it comes to to those those questions or those concerns. Um the last the last question concern obviously was the same thing was lighting. How are you going to address lighting? Again, lighting, roof drains, doors, and those type of things will be brought back before council for the certificate of appropriateness for the building because it is within the downtown and those are generally covered under the building permit side of it. Again, I do have representatives here and can go into more detail, but planning did give it positive recommendation with a 4 to2 with one one absent. So it did pass through planning but again there was a lot of concern brought up by planning commission members and they did address them at the planning meeting and the plans you have before you are updated. The plans that will be recorded providing council approves that will be the ones that are the updated plans that address all these concerns that planning brought up and I can answer any questions.

Thank you much. Thank you so much for that thorough explanation. Liz Millie um so this is the updated plan. Yes. What I what happened was is you originally got them from Janice probably last Friday and then we sent new ones out the beginning of this week. Again, after planning had met and had those questions, um they did draw them up and submit them. Which one am I looking at right now, James? Which one is in Dropbox?

This one was up there in the in the memorandum, Liz. at the very bottom it'll say revi it should say revised cuz I I submitted that when you got them the second version you got the memorandum you got both we got all three you got the will serve letter we have the revised okay so um

so again some of this will be addressed when it comes back through for certificate of appropriateness but at this time the de not the developer and the owners have not completed the architectural plans which are required to be submitted to the bureau codes for compliance Got it. Um, and real quick, yeah, okay, never mind. This is, sorry, I was not looking at this document. This is the revised one. Um, uh, why is the county not reviewing land developments anymore?

Financial restraints and downsizing within their department. they can't basically get the because what happens is when you submit a plan there is a required so many days that it has to go through the process of being reviewed get approved and then there's another 90 days which goes through that process of getting them recorded so at this time they don't have the staffing or have the ability to complete the requirement under act 247 so they're no longer reviewing them what we again what we have done obviously is we brought Scott Williams who used to work with the planning within within the Lycoming county planning he's reviewing them and it'll be continued to be reviewed by both um Glenn Kurer, well not myself but Glenn Kurer and someone from the from the zoning department as well as continue to be Bill Scott. [laughter]

Anyway, um no, sorry. I I I wanted to ask that at a council meeting that I missed in [clears throat] early January and um because I noted that on their um on the on the paperwork they sent us. So, I was So, thank you for providing an explanation to me that I guess you already probably provided to everybody else. Um, h yeah, this does look like a much more thorough [laughter] land development than the one that I was looking at. Um, are we allowed at this point to know the name of the business that will be opening there or is that a matter?

It's still under a franchise. What it is is they have to get everything approved. It is it is a franchise that's doing it, but they're under obligation at this point in time. can't address that till they get all the approvals first and then when they're set to basically start construction and begin that phase then that will be brought out at a later date. Okay, got it. Um and uh it the the the property obviously was the parking authorities to sell. Have we received any um we have a contingency saying that they are going to purchase it from that providing they get an approval. Got it. I I guess I meant the the neighboring properties. They obviously they didn't reach out to purchase it instead. Correct. So,

no, they have not. Right. Um Okay. Thanks, Eric. Yeah, absolutely. Anything else from other members of council? Mr. Pizzy, just one uh one quick question, but to the members of the Allen Emerson business, I would like to say thank you for your investment into Williamsport. We greatly appreciate it. Um, Gary, I'm just curious. Is the as as close a proximity as this is to a religious establishment, is there any kind of a waiver that the church has to give? Because I know there's certain establishments that have alcohol and whatnot, they have to sign off on the distribution of alcohol if it's if it's within such a proximity.

No, they they are bound by the zoning, what the uses are within the central business district. That use is a permitted use. Um, and it is permitted. Okay. That's all. Thank you, Liz Millie. Um, obviously it it looks as though landscaping will actually be improved at this intersection. Yeah. And and I think knowing the owners, I I think you're going to see that when they do that, it will be above and beyond what the requirement is based off of the plan. Okay. Um and the uh the I guess the one thing that I would say is obviously because the central business district design standards um exist in this area, it will come back before us for approval of the

Absolutely. Like I said, um I would ask that the owners consider bringing that before us in early design phases so that um we don't wind up with a situation where there's something that we they were actually they were and the architect was actually provided with our standards already.

Yeah, I know. I'm just saying it would be I think all of council might appreciate the the ability to review it before say components have been ordered, things like that. Um it's just it's uh we yes I I think that it is generally better. There are there are some components of that ordinance that um can be a little things like similar to surrounding structures. You know um you could make the case that the overpass was a surrounding structure but I would prefer that we not do that concrete going all concrete. [laughter] Right. I I assure you that it will not be all concrete and it will not be mainly metal.

Okay. [clears throat] Yeah. That those those are my primary concerns, but I I think that we have um been pressured previously on projects and I would prefer that not to occur here. I would like to start out on the best possible foot with I had reached out to them like I said after the almost 15 years and obviously Liz, you were actually one of the ones that appointed me to this position on council. So over the years I've learned to realize some of the things and and again they were addressed with them prior to several different developers meetings we had with them. Great. Excellent. Thanks Mary. Anything else from other members of council? Seeing hearing none, Mrs. Frank. Mr. Milikin. Yes. Mrs. Catz. Yes.

Ms. Mey. Yes. Mr. Pizzy. Yes. Mr. Ber. Yes. Motion passes 5-0. Item number 15, a subdivision from RVT in the city of Williamsport. Can I have a motion, please? So moved. Second, Mr. Nar.

What you have is once again, we're still working on the cleanup of the separation between RVT and the city of Williamsport. Back in March 13, 2025, I know it says on your memorandum 26, but back in 2025 of March, you approved a subdivision which separates streets and parks from RVT. It did have three rightaways. One that was omitted at that point was the most important rightway, which would be rightaway four, which that allows the city of Wansport to have access to get into the Fuel Islands and back into the back parting of their building. And this is just merely to make sure that that was in there. Even though it was admitted and you already approved it, it's a revised plan that'll show that and get recorded as such.

Are there any questions for members of council regarding this item? No. Seeing hearing none, Mrs. Frank. Mr. Milikin, yes. Mrs. Catz, yes. Ms. Millie, yes. Mr. Pizzy, yes. Mr. Ryder, yes. Motion passes 5-0. And lastly, Mr. Narf, it 16, demolition 351, Lion's A, aka Bucks Run Alley. Could I have a motion, please? So move.

Second. This is one that obviously came before council because council renamed it Buckrun Alley um probably about two three months ago, but there was a fire back in September 13 of 2025 that extensively damaged it. You do have pictures there. The homeowners at this point in time are looking at demolishing it. um they're not sure as far as what they're doing because if you're familiar with it, it is a small restricted area and they are at this point in time they are aware of that if they choose within the first within the year that they can put it back on the same footprint and not meet the zoning standards as far as setbacks, but they're not sure at this point in time. But because the structures deteriorated and obviously it does not look good for the neighborhood, they're requesting to demo it.

Any questions for members of council regarding this item? Seeing hearing none, Mrs. Frank. Mr. Milik, yes. Mrs. Catz, yes. Miss Mey, yes. Mr. Pizzy, yes. Mr. Ber,

yes. Motion passes 5-0. Gary, thank you very much. We will go ahead and jump back up then to item number 10, Mrs. Frank. Resolution authorizing execution and filing of exhibit B. Further agreement and stipulation to the consent decree to the consent decree made by and between the center of independent living of North Central PA at ADAP uh North Central PA Thomas Grio Tim Cummings Jay Hner and Marie Prince uh and the city of Williamsport. Can I have a motion please? So moved. Second. take it away.

Good evening, uh, Council President Ber, Vice President Bizzy, members of council. You have in front of you the, uh, resolution to authorize the city to file um, exhibit B, which is a further agreement and stipulation for the consent decree. This is the same consent decree that has been ongoing for I think about 5 years or so now. This is a number of uh stipulations um between the pliffs and the city as far as how the consent decree will be go gone about um closing it out. Um what's going to be done with uh in the event there are any public services at city hall. Um it covers the transition plan for the city for ADA compliance, some staff training issues, web accessibility, and um provides some certainty as to how the consent decree will eventually be closed out. And I'm happy to take any questions if you have them.

Are there any questions from members of council regarding this item?

Seeing hearing none, Mrs. Frank, Mr. Millik, yes. Mrs. Catz, yes. Ms. Mey, yes. Mr. Pizzy, yes. Mr. Ryder, yes. Motion passes 5-0. Thank you very much. Thank you. Move to item number 11, resolution authorizing an addendum to master services agreement with UHY Advisors. Can I have a motion, please? So moved. Second.

Miss Livermore. Good evening again. Um, this resolution is an addendum to the current UHY addendum. UHY is our consultant for our ARPA funds. All this is doing is um extending the term to December 31st, 2026. Um, we have very little left in the AR funds right now. We just have RDA and Lamb Bank. So, we utilize UHY to review their reimbursement requests, make sure they're compliant, and um we use their approval for compliance. So, we don't use them often. Usually, it's about once a month.

Any questions from members of council regarding this? Liz Millie, um at the risk of opening up a whole can of worms, uh is the RDA and the land bank on track to spend that funding by the end of the year? Um, we did have a meeting with the RDA and Lamb Bank and it did seem like they were on track. I think when Skip was at the last meeting, I think he said that they purchased three homes, which means they would be using the funds to do renovations. And I mean, as far as I know, they are on track. I did give them um a breakdown of what they have left maybe a month ago, so they are aware what they have left. Um, what do they have left?

I think it's a little to combined I think it's a little over a million. Okay. Maybe 1.3, something like that. Thanks. Um, all right. Thanks, Jamie. Seeing hearing nothing else, Mrs. Frank. Mr. Milikin. Yes. Mrs. Catz. Yes. Ms. Millie. Yes. Mr. Pizzy. Yes. Mr. Ber. Yes. Motion passes 5-0. Thank you. Absolutely. Thank you as well. Item number 12, please.

Resolution by municipality certifying provision of the local match for state operating financial assistance. Can I have a motion, please? So moved. Second.

Mr. Right. Good evening. Um this is our annual resolution um certifying the city of Williamsport's contribution towards RVTA's annual state uh operating assistance local match requirement. Um the state allocation is 6.2 million for uh fiscal year 26. It's the same we got in fiscal year 25. Uh the local share did go up 5% um as it typically does every year. Uh the total amount is $543,957. Uh the city share is $340,634.36. Um we do collect from Lycoming County and nine other municipalities and it is based on our scheduled revenue miles.

So this is something that's been before us now for the past couple of years since RBTA has been its own entity. Um, and one of my favorite questions to ask is, are the other municipalities playing ball? Are they paying the money that they pay? Um, we're working with Montoursville. They're different because they have an agreement with Walmart and they haven't updated it in 20 years. So, we're trying to help them get more money from Walmart essentially for their share. Um, the largest part of ridership in the burrow has gone there. Sure. Are there are there any other questions from members of council regarding this item? Seeing hearing none.

Mr. Milikin, yes. Mrs. Catz, yes. Ms. Millie, yes. Mr. Pizzy, yes. Mr. Ryder, yes. Motion passes 5-0. Thank you. Thank you as well. We'll move to item number 13, please. Resolution authorizing purchase of two old barn equipment truck body upfits. Can I have a motion, please? So move. Second. Mr. Livermore.

Good evening. Uh what you have before you resolution authorize purchase of upfit equipment for the two trucks that I purchased roughly two weeks ago. Um normally I have this done why I'm buying the trucks. Tried to keep it a little local, a little bit uh cheaper. um and purchased our plows for the trucks that I purchased. Um plows and other spreader box um for the amount of $38,700. Uh this was a surplus money in the parks line item at capital projects that I had extra for these trucks at the time when we budgeted for it last year. Any questions? Any questions for members of council? Liz Millie,

just how is the streets and parks department holding up right now [laughter] and our plows? everything. I mean, yeah. Uh, yeah. So, this is going to get me pretty close to wrapping everything up that I have that I've done the last few years. I have one more truck I'm working on a grant to try to secure, but uh other than that, everything's pretty much getting updated now. So, we have uh all good equipment now. It's positive. So, we haven't had any equipment breakdowns or anything like that with the recent started switching over to Ford. [laughter] No comment on that. I switched to Ford, too. Remember when I broke down while I was driving and talking to you?

Yeah. [laughter] Anyway, all right. Thanks, Scott. Anything else from other members of council? Just that I know your team's been working on Overdrive, you know, with all this weather and I appreciate it. That's a lot. So, thanks. and we're doing our best. It shows. I'm assuming we don't recommend making snow castles in that massive pile of snow you've deposited on the street in Brandon Park. [laughter] You don't recommend it. I mean, do it, but Mrs. Frank. Mr. Milligan. Yes. Mrs. Catz, yes.

Miss Mey, yes. Mr. Pizzy, yes. Mr. Ber, yes. Motion passes 50. Going to move to item number 17. And we have here is a certificate of appropriateness from HARB 844 West 3rd Street. Install new canvas covers. Could I have a motion, please? So moved.

Second. So, what I'm going to do is read this um for all of us to have the knowledge of because when this went to the HARP board, it was um it was denied and I'd like to um just have this out there for everybody to understand what it was. So, 844 West Third Street uh in Williamsport is uh requested to approve on the east side of the property in the same location as existing metal accessory structure. remove the torn cover and install a new canvas cover over the top of all four sides of the metal frame. And there's no color. It says color and there's no color listed there. The comments uh historical preservation act 89-665 any governing body in determining whether or not to certify the appropriateness of the erection, reconstruction, alteration, restoration, demolition or rzing of a building in whole or in part shall consider the effect which the proposed change will have upon the general historic and architectural nature of the district. The governing body shall pass upon the appropriateness of exterior architectural features which can be seen from a public street or way only and shall consider the general design, arrangement, texture, material and color of the building or structure and the relation of such factors to similar features of the building and structures in the district. codes officer has notified HARB that he considers this an accessory structure subjected to setbacks and building codes and has not permitted for the existing for the existing structure. Stand number nine. Exterior al exterior alterations or related new construction shall not destroy historic materials that characterize the property. New work

shall be compatible with massing size, scale, and architectural features to protect the historic integrity of the property and its environment. Our review board January 21st, 2026, and they had denied that. So assuming that it is not meeting those requirements that were listed below, again, I wanted to have them read into the record so that way people understood exactly what it was that HARB was requiring there. Um, there are no pictures that were accompanied with this. Uh, it does mention pictures in there, but Oh, actually, they're they're here. They're You have them there? They're just in the hard minutes. Oh, they're in the hard further down. Okay, wonderful.

Thank you. And I think I I can also add to the discussion that there was some debate dispute between the codes department and HARB as to who exactly was responsible for legislating this given that it walks a line between a permanent structure and a temporary structure. And I believe that it is a temporary structure. It would not be allowed. Clearly, it's become a relatively permanent part of the landscape. [laughter] Yeah.

And um but uh so, you know, doesn't meet the setback requirements there. Basically, regardless of whether codes was responsible for dealing with it or HARB, it doesn't meet anyone's requirements for a um an addition in the historic district um or an addition in any district. Um, hence it was denied by harb um in lie of being denied by codes I think. Y I've seen that some structure for sale sand club for $5.99. So there any questions regarding the certificate appropriateness then? Yes.

Yes sir. So this is we have the hard board reviewed this said that it didn't fit within historical whatever. Mhm. Right. And then it comes before us and we could essentially override their denial or whatever. Right. That's what this vote is. Correct. Okay. But we will vote actually that that's a good point of clarity. Yes. Correct. To to to go along with HARB, we will vote yes on the recommendation. You're voting to uh go along with HARB's decision. Correct. So, if I vote yes, I am agreeing with

you're agreeing with Harb and I don't believe that we have ever g if if if it's possibly once in my tenure that we have not sided with HARB on a recommendation um within the district. There was there was one. Okay. I remember one with the windows, you know, that we uh that we voted down. I think I'm pretty sure, Janice, did we vote it that down? Yes, that the Do you know what I'm talking about?

Yes, I do. Representative uh could come to council to discuss um his his or her reasons uh why he wanted it approved. And then council did approve the the gentleman's decision and and voted against Harb, but we've only ever had two or three denials since I've been here. But this vote is to go along with Harb's decision. So, if we're all understood then and there's no further questions. Mhm. Mrs. Frank. Okay. Mr. Milik. Yes. Mrs. Katz.

Yes. Miss Mey, yes. Mr. Pizzy, yes. Mr. Vider, yes. Motion passes 5-0. Item number 18, except for filing the controllers report from December and the HARB meeting minutes from January 24th, 2026. Do I have a motion, please? So moved. Second. Any questions regarding these two items? Seeing hearing none. Mr. Milik, yes. Mrs. Catz. Yes. Miss me? Yes. Mr. Pizzy? Yes. Mr. Ber?

Yes. Motion passes 5-0. Item number 19, announcements. The next regularly scheduled city council meeting will be on March 5th, 2026. The meeting for uh February 19th has been cancelled. It'll be 7 p.m. here at Trade and Transit 2. Um, upcoming meetings. Wednesday, February 11th, 3:30 p.m. Ow Pension Board. Wednesday, February, excuse me, Monday, February 16th, City Hall will be closed. Tuesday, February 17th, 11:30 a.m., redevelopment authority. Uh, 6:30 p.m. HARB. Wednesday, February 18th, blighted property. Thursday at 10:30 uh a.m. you have zoning and hearing. And again, the city council meeting for Thursday, February 19th has been cancelled. Um, we'll move on then to comments. Do we have any comments from members of the public this evening? Seeing hearing none, uh, a couple comments from myself, uh, and then other members of council if they have any. Um, we need to have a discussion, uh, about getting a town hall meeting on on the, uh, schedule. So we can get members of the community out and un and have a conversation with them about home rule so they understand exactly what it is that we are trying to do from our end because we need their participation and understanding through this process. Um the committee of the whole we passed that tonight so we will start to have committee meetings for that. Uh, we are going to be scheduling them for Tuesdays, the week of council meetings at 100 p.m. Seems to be the time that works for everybody on council and it seemed to be the pretty easy time because that's the old uh finance committee time. So that expect that on your next regularly scheduled committee meeting date which would be the first week of March. And then again, I already

mentioned it, but I will mention it again for a third time because uh we are not having a city council meeting on the 19th of February. So, any other comments from other members of council? Mr. Pizzy,

just quickly, uh obviously Mr. Livermore, I know you were here. You had something on the agenda, but um Chief Hair from Fire Department, interim Chief Ataviano, uh I know that neither of you two gentlemen had anything on the uh agenda, but I still appreciate seeing you here tonight. So, thank you for your presence. It's uh it's noted. Thank you. Any comments from the administration this evening? Any comments from the news media? Nobody's here anyway. And lastly, I'll take a motion for adjournment. So moved. All in favor?