Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

Mr. Born of you. I feel you. I'd like to call the this meeting of the planning and zoning commission to order. Uh tonight on the agenda, we have four public hearings, four letters of recommendation, one information report, two correspondence items, one amended site development plan, and one other item. Long agenda tonight. Um can I get a roll call of commission members, please? Commissioner Clayton here.

Commissioner Deppler here. Commissioner Deppler's here on Zoom. Commissioner Jackson here. Commissioner Rubis here. Commissioner Borne here. Commissioner Bourne's also here via Zoom. Commissioner Hilfrey here. Chair Batty here. Council member Marshall. Mayor Gitano here. All right. Thank you. Um let's see. Can I get an approval of the meeting from March 2nd, please, of the M? Motion by Commissioner Hellfrey, seconded by Commissioner Clayton. Any comments? All right. All those in favor say I. I. I. I.

Any opposed? Any abstain? All right. Motion passes, one abstension. And it looks like the Department of Planning has some opening comments. Yes, Mr. Chair, and thank you. Just a couple. First of all, I believe Miss Wheeler went around and introduced herself to all of you. She is our acting city attorney tonight for the purposes of the planning and zoning commission and we welcome her and thank her for being here. Also, we did receive a number of comments after Friday's packet was published and so those comments have been placed at your chairs tonight. So, just wanted to advise you that there's a few extras out there. So, thank you.

All right. Thank you. All right. Um, so we'll go ahead and go into public comment session. Um, this is for any of the non-public hearings and, uh, if you want to speak on any of those or anything, bring, uh, fill out a comment card in the back, bring it to Mr. Newberry, and he will call you when it is your turn. And if you are on Zoom, uh, use the raise hand feature, and we will, uh, call you when it is your turn. All right, Mr. Newberry. Thank you, Mr. Chair. This first speaker is Mr. Dostster.

Thank you, Travis. Uh, Chair Batty, members of the commission, mayor, uh, my name is Michael Doster. I'm the land use attorney on the development team for latitude N38. uh we were before you on March 2nd and prior to that meeting in the afternoon of that day. Uh we submitted uh lengthy responses to the information report that had been published the Friday before and we also submitted a revised plan. Uh as of this evening uh we have not received uh any comments to our responses or the revised plan. Uh and I understand that uh our matter is on the agenda tonight for a letter of recommendation uh of denial uh based upon the department's report. Uh, and I know that uh the department may uh not agree with with what I'm about to say, but in the letter that we submitted on March 2nd, we attempted to make our case that we have complied with every specific requirement, every specific guideline uh that's applicable to the subject property and the proposed development. Uh we still do not understand why uh the department is recommending uh denial uh because we don't have uh any specific examples of how we have not complied with specific requirements and specific guidelines. We do have opinions but we don't have the facts. Uh and that's a quandry for us. We would uh hope that the commission would take another look at this and not recommend uh denial. Um but I know based upon the last time we were here that that may not happen.

That's all I have to say. All right. Thank you for your comments,

Mr. Chair. The next speaker is Mr. CR. Okay. Hi, my name is Tim CR. I live at 2460 Heatherton Road. I live in Ward 8. I'm here to speak out against um Latitude 38. I've lived in Wildwood for decades. I've lived at the same piece of property. Lived at the same piece of property. Um, and I just come up here and repeat myself, I feel like, but tonight I've I dropped off some photos for you all to look at because there's been some talk that um I don't have an erosion problem. So, the photos I in have brought to you guys tonight will plainly show that I have a major erosion problem. And it will only get worse when you have a development like this that is 44 units and it will just destroy my property. But I want to get on from the erosion because I have pictures for you. So, the way that they have their plan set up, they want parking on Etherton Road. And I would invite every one of you to come drive on Etherton Road and take a look at if you add any more parking because you gave parking to the main street crossing subdivision so they can have parking in front of their homes. And it's heavily used. And if you put it on the other side, not only will you create a vision problem as people are coming and going down the street, but Heatherton Road sees about 5,600 cars a day. And I can show you documentations. I have a really good camera system that I just installed and it takes a photo of every car that goes down my street. So with that said,

there's going to be a huge parking problem with this kind of a development. And it's a rental development. So you his residents are not going to have uh a stay in the city because they're renters and renters are different. And I've lived next to his renters for six years. One renter had the police called 19 times. And I tried to call Mr. Bosworth because he used to be my neighbors. We used to be friends. We used to get along and we got along until he started to try to propose these highdensity developments. and he would never respond and his answer was always it's the city's problem. So I stopped calling him and I started calling the city and um one of his several renters was good and that renter left because he didn't uh see eye to eye with Mr. Bosworth and Mr. Bosworth wouldn't give him a a longer lease. But that's none of my business. But I can tell you what is my business. And my side of the street is a park-like setting. And it's been a park-like setting before Wildwood was ever thought of. And like I said, I've lived here for decades. And 90% of my street is a park-like setting until you get to Main Street Crossing. And that was a different setting because it was one giant farm field. So, it was understandable that they're going to build a neighborhood there. I opposed that one as well because I thought it was again too high a density. And after you speak with residents that have moved in there for a while, they kind of feel the same way. But they love the area and they love their house and they want to stay there. But you you you can't just dump this apartment style living right in the middle of Main Main Street crossing and Cambury and all the extra cars it'll cause. But you're going to ruin my quality of life.

You're going to ruin my setting. Main Street took all my sunsets. This development will be just nothing but noise and problems. There's no on-site management. There's no one to call. Mr. Bosworth doesn't respond in a quick manner and it's just it's just not right. That's why you guys denied it twice already. The density is still too high. That's time and I appreciate your time. So, thank you. Thank you for your comments, Mr. Chair. The remainder of the cards received by the department are relating to the public hearing items. Okay. Um, and I'm not seeing anyone with their hands raised on Zoom at the moment.

All right. In that case, we'll go ahead and move on to the first public hearing. Um, in the city of Wildwood, public hearings are truly intended to accept comments and questions concerning these posted items. Since these requests are being presented at a public hearing, no action is planned on these items tonight and consideration of them is to be taken no earlier than the May 2026 planning and zoning commission meeting. This approach ensures the members of the commission will hear all opinions before taking any action. The city's department of planning will address the comments, questions, and concerns that are raised tonight and include them as part of its formal recommendation to the planning and zoning commission. Anyone in attendance at city hall tonight wanting to speak should fill out a speaker card in on the back table and leave it with Mr. Newberry. Those in attendance via the Zoom webinar platform should use the raise hand feature to indicate you wish to speak at these hearings. A team member will add you to the list of speakers which will then be communicated to me as chair and I will invite you to speak when it is your turn. The public hearing process is outlined in the public hearing guidelines pamphlet, which can be found back at the entry table to the council chambers. The commission will allow all parties adequate time to present their position. As outlined in the public hearing guidelines pamphlet, those individuals representing themselves will be allocated three minutes to speak. Speakers who are designated as a group speaker representing a group of more than five individuals will be allocated five minutes to speak. In addition, information on these items can be found on the city's website at www.c cityof wildwood.com. The commission would like like to thank you for your cooperation and participation at tonight's hearing. All right, Mr. Newberry, uh PZ 2 and 2a-26.

Mr. Chair, the first items on carrying tonight are PZ2 Mr. Vunich, sorry.

M2A-26 Mabella Cara Doug Nance Lombardo Homes of St. Louis LLC, Full Research Park Circle, Sweet 130, St. Charles, Missouri 6334. A request for a change in the zoning district designations of four properties that are currently identified in the NU non-urban resident district, town center, neighborhood edge, and neighborhood general districts to the R6A 4,000 square foot resident district with a planned residential development overlay district, PRD, all being in association with attractive land that is 10.43 43 acres in size and located on the north side of Manchester Road, west of its intersection with State Route 109. Street addresses 1711517119127 and 17135 Manchester Road, St. Louis County. Locator numbers 24V 430086, 24V 43121, 24V 430064, and 24V 430112. Proposed use 74 attached single family dwellings in clusters of four and five units with associated street and pedestrian networks along with public rights away dedications and improvements, storm water management facilities and required public spaces. This particular site is located in ward one. Thank you.

Thank thank you Mr. Vich. Mr. Newberry.

Thank you Mr. Chair, Mr. Chair and members of the planning and zoning commission. And as with all public hearings, the department provides a brief presentation of some exhibits and some site photographs associated with the um requests. The first is just an aerial view of the location of the site that's outlined in red. Um we've identified to the north and to the west is the reserve at um Wildwood that's under development by McKelby Homes. Just to give you some additional context there. Um the property is located on Manchester Road west of State Route 109. The next is uh a plan uh slightly colorized plan. Um I just want to point out two locations, the two um curb cuts onto Manchester Road, which we'll follow with photographs from those locations. Um this is standing at the um easternmost entrance to the proposed subdivision looking to the east again on Manchester Road. This is at the same location looking to the west and then moving west down the road to the second entrance um the western entrance or exit uh looking to the east and then this is looking towards the west. The um grading activity you see there again is the um activity associated with the reserve um at Wildwood. Uh the next photograph is uh standing on the other side of Manchester Road, the south side of Manchester Road, looking along the western boundary of this site and the reserve at Wildwood site. And then this is the eastern boundary. The um structure you see on the right hand side is Old Pond School. Um and then on the left to the west is the existing home on the subject tract of land. One of the existing homes And then this is standing on the site of the reserve looking to the east. And

what's captured here where the tree line ends is the grading that has occurred in association with the reserve at Wildwood uh that abuts this subject site. And that concludes the department's um presentation of photographs. And Mr. Chair, the petitioner is in attendance um and has a presentation prepared.

All right. Thank you, Mr. Newberry. Would the petitioner like to step forward? Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, members of the planning and zoning commission, Mayor Garano, Councilman, uh, Marshall. For the record, my name is Mike Faulner. I'm vice president of Sterling Engineering with offices at 5055 New Bombgardner, St. Louis 63129. with me here tonight. I also have uh Ryan Holmes with the uh Lombardo Homes uh develop company. Uh hopefully between both of us, we'll be able to uh answer any questions that the commission may have uh regarding this development. If you could uh I'll run through this rather quickly. Uh staff was very uh good at describing where the property is. This is on Manchester Road about 600 foot west of Highway 109 on the north side. Uh to the north and to the west of this development is the reserve at Wildwood as um staff has indicated. Uh this this exhibit just shows that it is located within town center. The next one and this is a quick zoning map which it is non- urban to the north and to the west is the reserve at town uh at Wildwood and as staff was able to put out uh the existing zoning is non-urban with the neighborhood general and neighborhood edge district in town center what we're proposing is an R6A planned residential with the planned residential PRD overlay in the town

center district. Now, under the R6A, it allows for up to 10 units. If go to skip that one, if you would please, Travis, and maybe go to the next one. And as um you're aware under the R6A, it is capped at 10. Our development here will be roughly about seven units to the acre. It consists of 74 town homes in groups of fours and fives. These will be farale units on individual fee simple lots. Uh so these will be for sale, not for rent. Uh each one will have a twocar garage with basement. So all of these units will have basement and we have two entrances. Originally we submitted to the staff and we had one entrance uh after meeting with the fire department. fire department uh expressed concerns with that. Wanted us to go and look at coming in with a second access because they felt it was necessary because of the number of units that were going to be in this development which we did comply with that and submitted this new plan which shows the two entrances. Uh we will have sidewalks. The sidewalks be on both sides of the street as it comes in the middle middle entrance. And then there will be sidewalks. And I want to point out that each one of these units as they face Manchester Road will be the fronts of the units. The fronts of the units in the in right behind them will be that common ground strip that runs in between the groupings. And then at the far north, that will be the fronts of the units. So all the rears of the units with the

garages will be facing each other and will not be out towards a lot of the public to be able to see. So it'll be hidden back behind all of the units. Each of the units will have a twocar garage with a twocar driveway uh 20 foot wide driveway. So we'll be able to promote two cars in the in the drive along with two cars in the garages. With that, we also have an additional 45 spaces that are in the center of the unit of this development. You can see where we've got some uh parking spaces in the middles and we have some parking spaces on the east side. Uh those are for guest parking and all of the sidewalks to those units will lead along those fronts and it will all tie together and tie into the uh sidewalk network that will feed out to Manchester Road. Go next one. Uh the units again these units will be for sale units. They'll have 10-ft separation between the groupings uh and again 20 foot uh rear yard which I'm sorry 20 foot uh driveway in the rears but go to the next one maybe go to the next one. So after meeting with staff staff had indicated the desire and the need was at pawn school. Pond school was in desperate need of additional parking. Uh so after meeting with staff uh we came up with uh the design to install a parking bays and a drive along with a drive out after talking with uh fire. Fire would like to seen the additional

driveway. So did staff. So, what we're proposing as our public space uh contribution is to build that new parking area along with a drive that will go out to Manchester Road. And then what I'd like to do is introduce uh Ryan Holmes who's with Lombardo to try and talk about uh the units themselves.

Good evening. As Mike said, I'm Ryan Holmes. I'm in the a land development engineer from Lombardo. Um I think Mike did a very nice job of presenting the overall project. Um, but I'd like to speak a little bit more about the the units themselves that we're proposing with this development. Um, so we've got three separate floor plans that make up the configurations of the four and five unit buildings. We've got the Wakefield, which is the largest of the three at just over 2,000 square ft, and the Bristol uh, 1590 and the Lancaster at 1788 ft. Um, every unit, as Mike said, they have basements. Um, and they're going to start around 400,000 as a base price. Um, and, uh, that's the starting package. The basement will start out, uh, unfinished. Um, with the option to upgrade as is with other options within the the product line. Um, and I'll show you a little bit more about those as we move on to the next slide. So, this is our four standard fourunit configuration. Um, as you can see here, we've got the Wakefield and Bristols, uh, alternating across. Um, the the Wakefield and the Bristol, they do interlock with, I'll call it that notch, um, there. So, those two go hand in hand and are are going to be side by side in this floor plan. Um, the Wakefield being the largest, it does have a uh, lower level primary bedroom, which is nice. It is a three-bedroom uh, unit with options to customize. And then the uh the Bristol is a twobedroom with both the bedrooms upstairs. So this is the main floor. Um going up to the second floor, you'll see the Wakefield there on the end on the left and third from the right uh the larger unit. Um one thing I'll point out here is that that does have a twotory um open great room which is kind of nice. So there'll be a a balcony or the loft area looking down to open space into the main floor plan. So, it's kind

of a unique for this style of of product. Um, and there's other Go back real quick. And then we are a semi-custom, you know, home builder. Obviously, with this product line, we don't have as much flexibility as we do with the single family houses. However, uh, the footprint might be set. We do have flexibility as far as non-load bearing walls and, um, a second primary bedroom on the second floor and things like that. That, um, is a nice, uh, option. Um, and here's uh here's the basements. As I mentioned, uh, unfinished to start out. Uh, they do have the prospective customers do have the option to finish the basements along with the other upgrades and finishes. Um, this is the the front view that Mike mentioned that would be facing Manchester Road and the exterior uh property lines around uh around the site. Um, we got just kind of a uh the color palette there and um the four-unit building. So that would be what you would see from the exterior. And this is an enlarged view there to give you an example. Uh this is the fiveunit building. Um for the most part, uh the same with the addition of um we do have the Lancaster there on the end which is the middle uh square footage. So in this uh in this picture here, you can see it depicted on the left hand side uh followed by the Wakefield and and Bristol there with the notch uh adjoining the two. Uh these we do have some flexibility in the layout as far as mirroring and uh the semi-custom options within the units. Um that's largely driven by the sales as these are as Mike mentioned for sale uh no rentals. Um so the the customers will be you know deciding finishes and dictating the order or the uh uh the exact layout of these units.

Um so here's uh here's the second floor of those buildings. Um not going to go too much into this uh similar to what we've got before with the four unit buildings. And then we've got the basement layout. All units have the basement. So, and uh here's the the front uh facade or the front elevation of the units as you'd see from Manchester. Um the the the rear with the garage entries that'll be on the internal streets um backing each other. So, and uh myself and Mike uh happy to answer any questions you guys may have and thank you for your time.

All right. Thank you for your presentation. Are there any comments from the commission at this point? Yeah. In looking at your elevation, your mic, is there any brick? Uh, right now we do not have proposed brick. However, um, we're open to suggestions if that's something that the staff would like to see.

It it looked like it was siding and some other composition material. Yeah, that's uh so I'm in the land department, but from my understanding that Hardy board is the material that's required within the town center district area. So, we'll certainly be following all those requirements. Thank uh that yeah, it's a combination that they have right now of the vertical and then the horizontal lap signing. Commissioner Hilfrey,

uh this is actually for Mr. Vinich. Um, do we have uh a map of the over zoning overlays for this area right now to see so that we could visually see what is neighborhood edge, what is non- urban, what is neighborhood general for this piece of property. That's right. Plan of town center. I mean, just for us to see though. Pardon ma'am. I didn't. I'm sorry. For us to see for the next time this comes in front of us. Certainly. We'll get something for you.

Thank you so much. All right, Commissioner Rubis. Joe, how does the PRD work in this particular incident? What does that do for the city and residents?

Well, first and foremost, Mr. Rupus, it's not intended to increase density, the density set by the underlying zoning district designation. What the PRD or the overlay district allows is flexibility in design in terms of setbacks, lot widths, tree preservation, grading, etc. So, in principle, the overlay district is intended to allow the development to work in concert with the site versus the opposite. Mayor Garano.

All right. Well, thank you. I have a couple of questions and comments here. So, you the development and zoning review committee on December 4th and I was looking back at my comments at that meeting and some of the things that I talked about were related to the density on that property there. On December 4th, your plan had 74 units. plan that you're presenting tonight has 74 units. So, you haven't changed density one bit. Um, why did that feedback not matter to you? But Mike, can I

as far as number of units?

Yeah. uh that I really couldn't answer specifically other than the fact that at the time that we were working on it, we actually, if you remember, there was concerns about the units being too close and too many together. So, what we did is expanded it out and still was able to break a lot of the bigger units because we had a lot of sixunit buildings if you remember, I believe. And so what we did is broke them down into fives and then provided a 10-foot separation between those. And what we did is expanded the layout out. And it had to come out even more because of the fire districts uh meeting with them and wanting to require 26 foot wide streets throughout the whole thing where before when we submitted it originally we had alleys which were 15t wide. And so since that time, we were able we were required to expand it out to where we had full 26t wide streets throughout the whole development. No alleys anymore. They're all full 26t wide streets. I totally agree with keeping the streets wider because otherwise we run into parking issues. But I do see the difference between the plan in December and the one that's today is that you kept the same number of units. But you also uh I see you did take the advice and you broke up the clusters of about 10 or so units. But by doing that you sacrificed some of the open space that you had in that original plan. In fact, the rear setback is greatly reduced. I think you had 66 feet or 60 something feet of rear setback and now in your new drawing it's between 47 and 51. So in order to I guess accommodate some

of the feedback regarding the clusters um the wider streets and then also that separate entrance you didn't want to sacrifice the number of units but you gave up some land that was there. Um, so my comments still stand from that meeting that the density still seems to be high and I know that you mentioned or it was mentioned at the meeting that this is similar to uh I remember this because stood out you know we heard it was like well this is similar to what we have in Codleville and I said well we're not Cotville here we're Wildwood so we we want to be unique in how we do things here we don't want to replicate what's elsewhere So is there anything at all? I mean I guess that would really be for the department since this is a public hearing. The department will take this feedback into consideration when they provide their report. But I would look at the density uh is still a concern of mine there given this the lot size that we have there. Um I'll hold back on additional comments to see if there's any other the commission wants to say. Anything else from the commission? Commissioner Hilfrey.

Well, the reason I asked for those maps was because of uh my concern for the density as well. But just just for more practical thing, the houses on the back part of the of the the uh development as you have it drawn, the fronts of them would be looking into the is it to the would they be looking into the backyards of the homes and the reserves?

They'll be actually looking at at a wooded area because we're saving the trees along the the north and along the western edge of this development. We're saving all the natural vegetation that's along through there to act as a good screening buffer for our residents and the residents of the the reserve. Okay. Thank you.

Do we have any speaker cards on this? Yes, sir. Mr. Chair, we have at this time one speaker carton. Okay. Go ahead. Uh

Mr. CR Tim CR Tim CR W 8 2460 Heatherton Road I live very close to this project like I said I've lived here for decades so I understand the road structure and the infrastructure of Wildwood first off we've not nobody's touched on this but I I'm aware that the council will understand Pond Elementary school is right here, but the bus depot is also right there. So, my kids went to this school pond and if you ever are in at this intersection in the morning, there's 30 buses that line up at that light. So, these buses are crucial to get them out, get them moving, pick up the kids in a very timely fashion so they can get them to school on time. So, I hate to even see what the reserves is going to do to this amount of traffic with the buses here and all the teachers and drop off students. It's going to be a really cluster here. And I don't even know how the buses are going to get out. And when you add, let's just say 250 cars to the mix in the morning, it's going to be crazy. That's a very narrow road. There are no shoulders on either side. And Mr. Voon can correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a pretty erosion prone area as well. I do appreciate him keeping the line of trees. That's a great idea. I've always fought for those on all the developments here in Wildwood and that most of them just tear them down because it's easier for them to to build with no trees. But I have to say it's just way too there's just way too many. I I I don't understand all these developers that

just come to Wildwood and just want to pound in every possible home that they can. And I know people get excited to be able to move to Wildwood and but once they're there, they figure out that it's way too dense. There's nothing. There's just no green space. But my biggest problem is the density and how you're going to get these people out. Because like I said, I invite you to to just go sit at the light because that's a crazy light. Either way you turn, like if you're turning from Manchester to try to go to Eureka, that light gives you seven cars. And I've watched the buses try to go out and they get 10 at a time. So if you add 250 cars to that mix, there's no way the buses will get out. So I just think you just need to keep looking and and try maybe try to figure out something with this.

All right. Thank you for your comments. Any Mr. Chair, no additional speaker cards from the room. Uh I don't see any hand raised from the public on Zoom. Mr. Borne has uh Commissioner Borne has raised his hand. Commissioner Borne. Yeah, I saw in the Lombardo presentation that there was uh drawings and renderings for the front of the villas. Is there one that shows the garage side that we'll see from those streets? An elevation drawing that shows the garage side.

Yeah. Uh we do not have a uh a rendering at this time but can certainly uh get that and can work to do that to provide that. We would appreciate that. Thank you. Yep. Um Yep. Absolutely. And as a point of order, the reserves will have direct access to the roundabout, so they will not have to use Manchester Road to exit that subdivision. All right. Motion.

If no one else has any other comments, then yes. I'll make a motion to close the public hearing. Right. Motion by Commissioner Hellfrey. Is there a second? Second by Commissioner Clayton. Um, all those in favor of closing the public hearing say I. I.

Any opposed? Any abstain? All right. Public hearing is closed. Uh, next on the agenda, PZ5-26 EZ 5-26 City of Wildwood Planning and Zoning Commission Care of Department of Planning 16860 Main Street, Wildwood, Missouri 63040. Request for the consideration of amendments to certain existing requirements being set forth in chapter 415.030. Definitions chapter 415.400 400 sign regulations general. Chapter 415.410 sign regulations for FPNU and all R districts and chapter 415.420 sign regulations for all C and M districts which would remove windows signs or clings from their current exemption status and thereby require these representations to be reviewed and authorized under a set of new rules to ensure compatibility with the city's dark sky efforts town center neighborhood design standards and architectural guidelines and its outdoor lighting requirements of the zoning ordinance. Chapter 415.450 all wards.

Thank you, Mr. Newberry, Mr. Vinich.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, and members of the Planning and Zoning Commission, the department has provided for your consideration tonight information relating to the public hearing. The public hearing speaks to a set of signs that are governed by what is described as exclusions, meaning that they do not have the number of requirements that typical signage in the city of Wildwood has relative to size, height, location, etc. These exclusions generally focus on governmental type of signs, signs that acknowledge construction of buildings and their date. But one of those exclusions is window signage. And as you know, commercial businesses have a great deal of window signage of late. Typically, almost every business now has an open sign or open signs. Other businesses such as liquor stores have information relating to product. The list can go on and on. But from the standpoint of the city, this became an issue of late as more and more of those signs use light emmitting diodes, LEDs, and the brightness is becoming more of an issue relative to adjoining residential areas. With the signs being treated as exclusions, we do not have the set of tools to ensure that when window signs or window clings are installed, they're done in accordance with best practices and how we regulate other representations of a similar nature. So tonight, the department has prepared for your consideration potential regulations

relating to window signs or window clings. Those regulations are identified on page three of the report that was provided. Key amongst those regulations relates relate to size 30% of the total glass or glazed area. Transparency again for public safety purposes. Duration for temporary versus permanent maintenance. and then importantly illumination and then finally content. All signage is intended to be neutral content or content neutral as you know from our discussion of the US Supreme Court decision um back in the early or the late n late 20 early 2020s. But this is more so just to ensure that the signage actually represents something that's available at the place of business or provided at the place of business. So tonight we are presenting this set of proposed regulations to address a sign that's probably in many ways more used than any other type in the city of Wildwood, but is the least regulated in the city of Wildwood. I would conclude by noting that the discussion relative to window signs or window clings began with our economic development committee of city council and a desire to better understand the implications of it of those types being exclusions and then if there is a best practice that can be employed. So tonight we're here to accept comments from the planning and zoning commission as well as the public and then as you know the department will

prepare an information report with recommendation to present to the commission for consideration and at this time the department will conclude its presentation and if there are any questions or comments they're certainly welcome. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Vinnich. Um, any discussion from the commission?

Do we have any speaker cards on this? Mr. Chair, the department has not received any speaker cards and currently there are no hands raised on Zoom regarding this matter. Commissioner Hfred, Mr. Bish, I'm just for this one that says transparency. So 4 to 7 ft. So the actually the cleansings can only go at the tops of the windows. Is that correct?

Generally speaking, the intent is to keep a clear view for police purposes. And as you know, most of the police ride in cars, so it's suggested to fit the height of the vehicle and the police officer sitting in it. So we'll take a look at that just to make sure we've got it right. Uh we did some research and that's the number that kept appearing more frequently than not. So we'll check. Okay. And and they're supposed to be temporary, not permanent.

Actually, there can be permanent window signage. Temporary for like sales or other special events. That's to be treated a little differently. But permanent window signage is a component uh of many our business of many of our businesses at this time. and would continue to be in the future. Okay. So, I guess I'm not understanding why it says temporary claim. So, Oh, so you can have temporary and permanent. Correct.

Got it. Okay. Um, so I guess I have a question then. On Clarkson Road, there is a store by Trader Joe's. I don't know, Garbanzo or whatever it's supposed to be called. And it's not open yet. and they have the cling all over the window and I've seen those clings in other businesses where they are you can see through them but they use them kind of as a tent against the sun. Those are not allowed. Correct.

Well, at this time, as I say, most of our window signage is governed under an exclusion and has just a very limited set of requirements. The intent would be to remove the interpretive nature of our reviews as a city and have tangible requirements. What the department would say in response to your question is we prefer not to see them because the window clings or window signage that fill the entire glazed area exceed the square footage even in the exclusion clause relative to these types of signs. Thank you, Mr. Vinc.

Anything else? All right. Uh motion to close the public hearing. All right. Motion by Commissioner Rubis, second by Commissioner Plefrey. Any discussion? All those in favor of closing the public hearing say I. I.

Any opposed? Any abstain? All right. Motion carries. Thank you. All right. Next on the agenda, PZ6-26 A and B. Mr. Reich. PZ PZ6-26A City of Wildwood Planning and Zoning Commission Care of Department of Planning, 1 16860 Main Street, Wildwood, Missouri 63040. request for the change in zoning district designations of three properties from the NU non-urban residence district to the C8 planned commercial district with conditional use permits which would then accommodate drive-through facilities in conjunction with their authorized and permitted uses northeast and southeast corners of State Route 109 at their intersections with Main Street and northwest corner of the intersection of State Route 109 and Manchester Road. Street addresses 1719 and 17194 Main Street and 2521 Highway 109 St. Louis County. Locator numbers 23V121-417, 23V121426 and 24V 430097. Town center regulating plan designation workplace state route 100 and 109 district. U proposed uses all permitted uses of the town center workplace district including the allowance for drive-through facilities in association with the grouping of applicable types of them. Wards one and eight. PZ6-26B, City of Wildwood Planning and Zoning Commission, Care of Department of Planning, 16860 Main Street, Wildwood, Missouri 63040. Request to amend the zoning district designations of three properties from the C8 Planned Commercial District to the amended C8 Planned Commercial District with conditional use permits, which would then accommodate drive-through facilities in conjunction with their authorized and permitted uses. southwest corner of State Route 109 and at its intersection with Main Street and southwest corner of the intersection of State Route 109 and Manchester Road. Street addresses 2431 and 2601 Highway 109 and 17120

Manchester Road. St. Louis County locator numbers 23V100022, 24V 430185 and 24V 430163. Town Center regulating plan designation workplace state route 100 and 109 district proposed uses all permitted uses of the town center workplace district including the allowance for drive-through facilities in association with the grouping of applicable types of them wards one and eight. All right. Thank you, Mr. Newberry. Mr. Vich,

thank you again, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, members of the planning and zoning commission, before the department begins the presentation relative to the matters just prescribed by Mr. Newberry into the record, we do want to identify what you've received in terms of a packet. There is a primmer that provides background relative to this particular set of request. primmer kind of talks to or identifies I should say the background associated with it and ultimately the nature of the current request along with that information the department has provided you the posting I do want to note that relative to all six sites the mailings were done within 3,000 ft of each of them to ensure that there was dispersion and an opportunity for residents to speak to the components of the request. Also, there is a map that's been prepared by the city relative to the six sites that are the subject of the two hearings tonight. And then finally, there is the map and letter of recommendation relating to the first step and what is described as a three-step process relative to certain sites that have frontage onto Route 109 and Route 100. So hopefully we've given you information to kind of provide the parameters of tonight's discussion and the intent of the two hearings. First and foremost, as you all are aware, there are three standing committees in association with our city council. Uh two of them have been part of the city's leadership structure since almost the time of incorporation. that is the administration and public works committee and then the planning

and parks committee. More recently, within the last 10 years, a third standing committee was added. That's the economic development committee. As with all of the standing committees of city council, there are eight members on each of them. So, oftentimes certain council members serve on multiple committees. The economic development committee was formed to ensure that first and foremost existing businesses were retained, new businesses were recruited and when possible to spur economic development activity in our town center area. And I limited to town center because again, as you know, other than a few certain zonings completed by St. Louis County prior to 1995, such as Clayton and Streker Roads, that intersection, all commercial development is intended to be in our town center area. Within the town center area, it is limited to the downtown district, the workplace district, and in certain instances in a live work scenario, the neighborhood general district. The properties that have been identified in the first step of this process, which was creating a subset of the workplace district, are the 10 that front on to Route 109 or Route 100 that's shown on the map. Though subset that was developed changed the list of permitted uses that could be considered not granted by right but could be considered to include quicks service restaurant type facilities. As you know, quick service restaurants were allowed but without drive-throughs

in the workplace district. And many of these properties are workplace district. In fact, all so we took the first step and identified 10 properties that would be potentially suitable for certain uses with drive-through facilities. The second step as prescribed by the economic development committee was to begin a prezoning process and that's the step tonight. The prezoning process is intended to accept comments from the commission and the public to see if these sites truly are suitable for quickserve type of activities. and if so to create the framework for a future development proposal or proposals to be submitted upon them. And that is the third step, creating the subset of the workplace district and identifying 10 properties. Step one, the prezoning. Step two, tonight. Step three will be when a development entity is interested in one or more of the properties. That is the time that the planning and zoning commission, the public, and ultimately city council will be able to basically gauge a successful utilization of the property or not. As commission members, you may ask, how do you pre-zone particularly to the CA plan commercial district or in an existing CA plan commercial district with a conditional you or a conditional use permit? It's not as easy as having a

plan in front of you to develop that sightspecific ordinance or permit. So the intent if this set of requests moves forward is to create a general framework and as a development proposal is submitted ensure that that proposal meets that general framework and ultimately has the key elements that were described when the subset of the workplace district was identified. And in your report from the letter of recommendation as part of the packet, those are identified on the bottom of page five and the top of page six. Certainly the unknown is not something necessarily you as commission members, the department or anyone in the public likes. But as has been described, particularly during the pandemic and thereafter, convenience was lacking in the city of Wildwood relative to many of our commercial establishments. We heard from residents, we heard from elected and appointed officials. And so tonight, we're trying to address it the best possible way in an open forum to hear people's opinion and see if we're headed on the right direction or not. Certainly, if the commission does not support the six properties being prezoned or designated with a conditional use permit, then individually at some point, a development interest may bring them in and would not be disqualified due to the action relative to these petitions tonight. With that, I'll conclude because I believe we have a number of speakers that would like to address this matter.

But again, I just want to emphasize that as we started this process with the workplace subset, the next natural step, at least as described through our economic development efforts, was to do the prezoning. And that is what we're here tonight to discuss. Ultimately, if there is a proposal, it will come back to the planning and zoning commission and ultimately city council. And with that, the department will conclude its presentation and if there are any questions or comments, we'll do our very best to answer them at this time. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Vich. Um, Mr. Is any discussion from the commission? Yes, ma'am. Commissioner Hry,

just a point of clarification for the drawing that has the numbers on it. We're talking about six properties and there are eight properties numbered. So, I just want to make sure we're I know which ones we're talking about. We're talking about six, seven, and eight and one and two. Is that correct? So there's two maps. The first map, the representation shows the six properties that are the subject of tonight's request. There's not a title associated with that, but this is the first map after the notice. Okay. The public notice. So on the next map that's that's numbered. It's not number five and number six. Correct. It's Thanks.

One, two, three, four, seven, and eight. Perfect. that constitutes the six properties. Thank you, Mr. Rick. Because and for clarification, five and six are the two gas stations. Correct.

Correct. And as you know, when we were talking about the subset of the workplace district of the regulating plan, we look at everything from a perspective of the present, but also the future. And so as with gas stations over the years, they are red redevelopment opportunities. And what we're finding is financial institutions are as well. So we went ahead and designated existing uses with the idea that if there is a redevelopment opportunity, we wouldn't necessarily limit it without at least considering it. Commissioner Rubis,

is it the intent that all these properties will be governed by a conditional use permit? Ultimately, all properties will have a CA plan commercial district with a conditional use permit. So, if you want to kind of liken it, got a pair of pants and you've got a belt on it and now you put some suspenders as well. All right, Mayor Garano. Yes, I have a couple comments, but I think I would be interested in first hearing public comment. All right. For the public hearing before we have any discussion because we might hear something good that we might want to talk.

All right. Well, in that case, yeah, we'll go ahead and bring the speaker cards forward. Mr. Chair, the first speaker is Mrs. Donaldson, excuse me. Mr. Again, three minutes for individuals, five minutes for representative of a group of five or more. I'll do my best to keep track for you. All right. Thank you, Mr. Vunich. Hi, I'm Debbie Donaldson. I live in Cambury. It feels like I'm here constantly trying to defend our area from this sort of development. Apartments, it's a lot of things.

Yeah, it's hard. I can hear you, but I don't like going through the speaker. Um, so I'm concerned. I've sat through some of the Zoom meetings. Um, developer comments, uh, and and items I read from some of the emails that were sent. Low rent district. One was said he was raised in the low rent district in Chesterfield. Are we considered the low rent district in Wildwood? Really? I didn't know there was a low rent district in Chesterfield. Second of all, we should have known something like this would be built uh because of those lots sitting there. No. No, I didn't. Because when I moved to Wildwood 6 and a half years ago, there was the promise that Wildwood had going on that there would never be drive-throughs ever. And now all of a sudden, these are being considered. I feel betrayed. Wildwood promised and was founded upon no drive-throughs. My daughter-in-law was raised in Westridge Oak. When I told her um in January celebrating her birthday, what was proposed, her reaction was visceral. While we were in a an an Italian restaurant, Miaella, she went, "What?" And she said, "Oh my god, Wildwood said they would never do that. Never. As most of you know, I've said it before, I'm in real estate. My brokerage had a Chesterfield planner come to our Tuesday meeting a couple weekends weeks ago. And it was very interesting. The planner mentioned that car washes are now all the rage. We already have two at 109. Why do we need a third? Second of all, fast food, she said, is

carefully planned and it's mostly in the valley. She said they consider vehicle stacking. It's very important. I deal with traffic circles constantly. I've had my car hit on a traffic circle and it's not fun. And we all got hit the other day.

So, how does that work? Mod won't allow curb cuts on 109. So, they're going to enter from Main Street and Cambury Lane on the traffic circles. That doesn't seem very safe to me or very practical. And you've got new homes going in across from us. I understand change happens. I just heard Mayor Garitano say that we want to be unique. So, stop this reszoning for God's sake. If Austin can stay weird, Wildwood can stay wild. Thank you.

Thank you for your comment. M Mr. Chair, the next speaker is Mr. Leam. Mark Laam, 2421 Larkong Drive, Ward 8. We've got a real problem on 109 right now. Well, the roundabouts aren't helping. Now, we're going to dump more traffic on them. We're talking about some additional developments. the the if I'm not mistaken the recent accidents have increased a lot on 109 plus the amount of accidents that's going on in the roundabouts. So we've got a walking if if if you come out on Main Street there's walking a walking path and Cambury there's a walking path. So, you're going to add that and then people trying to get out on Main Street. I had a neighbor that sat for 4 minutes because people don't yield on 109 at the roundabouts. For some reason, there was no I, for lack of a better term, training on how to use the roundabouts cuz everybody coming in has yield signs and nobody yields. So, this is going only add make things worse. and they're talking about other developments being built. We've got a a low water problem on top of it anyway. Now, we're going to add more density. So, there something needs to be changed. We're asking you please don't don't allow this resoning. Thank you.

Thank you for your comments.

The next speaker is Mr. Donaldson. Hello, I'm Rob Donaldson. I I live with Mrs. Donaldson in Cambbury. Um, what I wanted to do is touch on one of the the one of the items having to do with the entrance into Main Street right from both of those properties on the right and the left. Just as this is like the traffic circle, but this is 109 and uh and the reserve is over there. Is that you're going to come around here have to go down.

Can you um sir, can you you got to stay at the microphone. Sorry. Go down Main Street. Go down Main Street and you get to turn right or left. But just as uh uh Mark said, there's a there's a walkway there, but just into that onto Main Street. It they now go out put a boulevard in there. So, there's just a short period of time or short uh distance where you've got to turn right to go into the car wash, which is going to track a lot.

Stay close to the a lot of people, sorry, or a lot of cars. And then you got McDonald's on the left, which was in the in the plan before. I was recently at uh a Wildwood uh um uh drive-thru um the uh Starbucks and I was the 17th in line. And I asked when I got up to the window, "How far do these cars stack up?" because oh sometimes all the way back to the stop sign which was a I was at 17 that must have been about 30. So now think about 30 cars stacking up. You got McDonald's on one side and you've got a car wash on the other on a Saturday morning where everybody wants to wash their cars and grab breakfast sandwiches. I just think that's going to be a real crash situation there. It's going to be a plug plug up uh opportunity 247. No, but uh there's going to be a lot of opportunity for uh a big traffic uh just hang up there and the accidents that are going to happen. And as somebody mentioned before, just the other day, I I was coming home and going around the traffic circle Main Street

and um so I had to write away because I'm in the circle and somebody comes down 109 at about 45 miles an hour, doesn't even think to stop, doesn't yield, as they said, and and then so I had to stop and and honk my horn and they looked at me like, "What are you doing?" So, not everybody knows there's a it's just a big dangerous spot. And to put two drive-throughs right there in a residential in a residential entrance, basically Main Street on your right, Cambury on your left, I just think it's a bad idea. So, I ask you to consider that in your decision. Thank you. Thank you for your comments. The next speaker is Mr. CR. I get as much as he wants. I mean, for every different thing. Yeah. Tim CR, Ward 8, 2460 Heatherton Road. I live super close to both these outlets. I agree with all the previous speakers. This is a really bad idea. Um, I'm going to speak a lot about the car wash. I was in that industry for about 12 years and I can assure you that this will be the biggest eyesore that Wildwood has ever had. I know where Mr. Batty lives and I can promise you at 7:00 when they turn those vacuums on, you will hear them until 10:00 at night. I promise you. I will hear them at my house. It's just part of the system. We do have two good car washers here. Mr. your boss, worst best friend, one of his good friends, Phil Hurleut, owns Auto Spa in Ellisville. That's top. We should all drive up there and use it. And it is it's a dangerous intersection. Nobody in Wildwood really knows how to

navigate these roundabouts. They think that once they get into the turning section that they own both lanes, and that's just not how that works. And I honk at people all the time. they, you know, give me the dirty finger, whatever. But I usually follow them up to the next light at Taylor Road and roll my window down and explain to them how the roundabout works and they roll their window back up and they probably do it the very next day. That's just how it operates here. And we do have a big speeding problem in Wildwood. Um, I've addressed this with Captain Mandelle for years and I've invited him to my house. I've invited Mr. Garano to my house and he has come to my house and he's seen that there's a speeding problem and once again I can give you my camera footage and I can show it to you. There's a big speeding problem. It's a big speeding problem on Etherton and eventually if Main Street ever does get opened up on Crestview Drive, this will be just a disaster area and McDonald's draws a lot of customers. And I know that McDonald's is wants to go in next to BP. I just I just don't see a good entrance and I don't see a good exit. And for those businesses to even be successful, you have to be able to shuffle these people in and out as fast as possible. That's that's the way they're set up. They're a fast food restaurant.

Unfortunately, I personally agree if you're going to have a fast food restaurant in Wildwood, the perfect spot for it would be next to Larry's because there's no houses around there. That's where it should be. There's not a lot of traffic on that road. Be ideal. And unfortunately, whoever the guy is that bought the old Jack in the Box, we need to run him out of Wildwood. He's been waiting for a part for two years. I would fabricate him the part. I would help him. All right, that's time.

Okay, it's just a bad idea. Thank you for your comments, Mr. Chair. The next speaker is Miss Gallo. I'm going to read this just to get through it for time sake. Mr. Mayor, city council members, your name and address, please. Oh,

so sorry. Uh Dorian Gallow, 17138 Cambury Lane, Wildwood, Missouri. Thank you for this opportunity to address you today. I am a resident of Wildwood residing on Camberry Lane. I am also a board member of the Camberry Homeowners Association. In 2004, I purchased my town home in Cambury because we recognized the vision Wildwood's Wildwood was promoting a rural suburban environment with a town center serving as the community's hub. I strongly oppose the proposed two projects, a McDonald's drive-thru and a car wash located at the corners of Main Street and 109. These developments do not align with the character of our community and would have detrimental effects. I recently discovered that the McDonald's at Lamp and Lantern operates 24 hours a day. This constant traffic flow and potential for odors from the establishment would disrupt the tranquility of our quiet residential neighborhood. There are already two car washes within a short distance of this proposed new one, raising concerns about its purpose. Is it intended to drive out the existing businesses? The location of these projects is highly questionable. The city and state invested significant resources in constructing roundabouts at Cambury and 109 to facilitate traffic flow and reduce accidents which were prevalent when there was a light a traffic light at that intersection. By adding two drive-throughs to the entrance of Main Street, you risk creating a hazardous traffic situation. If you had consulted with the homeowners who will be directly impacted by this entrance, we would inform you that they are already considerable risk attempting to navigate the RA round roundabout and cross 109 to enter Main Street. Adding two businesses at the entrance will

exacerbate the problem, leading to accidents and congestion in all directions. During a recent YouTube council meeting, one of the developers humorously remarked about the neighboring property's failure to conduct due diligence when purchasing adjacent to a counsel lot. Indeed, I did take the necessary precautions. Wildwood had designated the outlots as zoned for professional office or bank establishments with drive-through services, creating a professional atmosphere with business hours. The city's decision to identify eight locations within a onem stretch of 109 as acceptable drive-thru location is perplexing. It is if Wildwood has wants to transform this stretch into the Las Vegas of Wildwood. While I imagine some point there will be a business on these two corners, I believe the city and developers can find a business that would be more conducive and a better fit for all surrounding neighborhoods. I wish the economic development committee would allocate more efforts towards placing businesses in the town center and along Old Manchester Road as originally planned. Thank you.

Thank you for your comments.

The next speaker is Miss Bush. Hello, I'm Christa Bush and I live at 258 Cam uh Kair Lane in Cambury with my husband Craig. I am here to talk about my um concerns about the reszoning of uh the two properties flanking Main Street at 109. Um, my biggest concern is traffic. I travel out Main Street to 109 South to 44 Monday through Friday to get to work. And whenever I approach that Main Street roundabout, I usually wait there somewhere between 1 and four minutes to get onto it. And um so there's already a delay for me before we talk about the additional homes being built uh by McKelie and potentially additional traffic entering Main Street to uh service these two businesses. Um Rob Donaldson talked about the boulevard and that is a very small area there where traffic would have to cross to get into a business on the north side of Main Street and it would cross over traffic coming out Main Street. So my car going out probably have to stop to let these cars cross over to get into that business. And then I don't know. I mean, depending on how well they deal with traffic stacking, we could have lots of cars building up on Main Street, even out into the roundabout or out into 109 that want to use those businesses

and are trying to get in and out of them. Um, I know that one of the uh business proposals, the the McDonald's business proposal, um, I was able to listen online. Thank you for letting us do that because it was helpful just to learn about what these businesses are one minute

are proposing. um they think that traffic can enter off or exit off onto Cambury Lane to get out, but I'm concerned that um traffic will actually use Cambury Lane as a cut through and go up and maybe come across on Lark Song or even my street, Killer Lane, and then come back down Main Street. and I don't want to see um commer uh traffic being able to use our residential streets to get around. So, those are my biggest issues with this reszoning. I'm hoping that you will not allow reszoning of those particular properties for um for uh drive-thru access. Um one other comment in terms of 109 itself, it's getting busier all the time. these new business or these new developments that are going in. I'm happy about the McKelie development. I think it's going to be beautiful. Um, and I like the fit. I think it's a good fit for our area, but it is increasing traffic on 109 that's already getting busier. Um, at the roundabout Manchester as well as the roundabout in between the roundabout at Manchester and Main Street, there's traffic stacking already. Thank you for your

Thank you for your comments. Mr. Chair. Yes, sir. I'm not a mistake. Miss Gallow is a trustee of the HOA and she could have up to five minutes. So, if she'd like to come back up for her extra two minutes, my apologies.

All right, Mr. Chair. Uh, that was the last speaker card in the room here in the council chambers. I do have a hand on Zoom. Okay. Believe it's Miss Link. I'll promote.

You'll just give her a moment. Okay.

All right. Can you hear me now? Yes, I can. Go ahead.

Okay. Great. Lyn Link, Ward Six. Um, I think there there couldn't be worse spots for roundabouts than these two spots. So, the average um drive-thru gets 700 to 1,000 cars per day. The average McDonald's has 200 cars per hour. with having the reserve empty directly out onto the roundabout. You're going to have all those drivers, all those delivery trucks with those people who may not, you know, they're not from Wildwood. They're not familiar with our roundabouts. And you're going to have young drivers going to the McDonald's, going there, not familiar with roundabouts at all. And then if they're coming from other areas, they're going to have to probably change lanes in the roundabouts. So, that's an issue. And also, I would think that it would also be an issue with um drive-thru um with car washes because especially in winter when cars could still be dripping in water, you have the potential, especially on a bridge which is more likely to freeze um of increasing the chance that ice would be forming in that areas. Um again, I don't think it's a good fit. I don't want to go over everything that everybody's already said um about it, but I really think it is a bad idea, especially to put the roundabouts right there. Thank you very much.

All right. Thank you for your comments, but the roundabouts are already there. I'm sorry, not there. I I I apologize. I mean to have the drive-throughs right at the roundabout. Thank you for correcting me, Mr. Batty. You're welcome. Thank you, Mr. Chair. As I mentioned, no additional speaker cards uh in the room. Um, I don't see any hands raised on Zoom currently as well. Commissioner Rubis,

just as a point of clarification, the the two outlots that that are in the U Main Street crossing area, they were commercial lots when the original plan was presented. Was it only restricted to professional or office buildings? Well, just to give a bit of background, Commissioner Rubis, prior to Main Street crossing being submitted by Payne Family Homes, the west side of Etherton Road, the area that's part of Main Street was actually Downtown District and the remainder was workplace district. And the intent was actually to have that site be a commercial center of some type. Ultimately, as we all know, retail, service, restaurant, the whole landscape has changed and brickandmortar stores are not something that gets built. And if they do get built, the likelihood of success seems um less and less each year due to internet sales, etc. So when Payne Family Homes made a proposal for residential, it was a proposal that the city council thought was appropriate as well as this commission and the department. However, we did retain the workplace district along Route 109. And quite simply, it's because the amount of traffic on Route 109 and the character of the roadway corridor doesn't necessarily lend itself well to residential uses, particularly the town center type that are on smaller lots um and have, let's say, um I guess less yard area and less protection from the characteristics of a roadway rightway.

So, we retain the workplace. The workplace district has a long list of uses. The two that were mentioned certainly could be um types that could be considered there. Financial institutions with drive-through facilities and professional, medical, dental, and um general office. But there are also other things. A fast food restaurant could go there up to recently, but without a drive-thru facility. So there's a range of uses. We select the uses based upon ultimately the best plan and making sure that plan fits the site. And obviously I don't think anyone on the department's of public works and planning or the commissioner city council wants to degrade the environment for our residents. We do our best to try to make it work. Um there's a lot of factors that go into it. Sometimes you miss one or two, but you certainly do your best. Well, I I didn't a statement was made that Wildwood promised that this would only be used for professional or office buildings, and I I just wanted to dis that was in inaccurate.

Chief's absolutely correct. It could be used for that, but I I know of no such report, at least one issued by the department or ultimately acted upon by the planning and zoning commission, that would limit it to such. They're good uses. Um but as I say um right now the commercial component in the city um struggles at time. Mayor Garitano,

uh Director Voonage, uh you mentioned that these tonight and call them prezonings. uh why not just us handle these individually whenever that time comes when someone has some idea and that way we can base it on a casebyase basis versus uh doing as presented tonight. That's certainly an option. Um, I would have to defer to John Young. Offense to our acting city attorney, but the reason these items are before you is again the economic development committee has been discussing prezoning of certain properties for months. Mr. Lee and I have been given the charge to kind of initiate that effort. That's the part that's the reason we're here tonight. Mr. Lee's come on screen. He may want to add more. Mr. Mayor, with your permission and I get that even with zzoning because the drive-through aspect is a conditional use and the discretion continues to remain with the city whether to approve or not.

Very much so.

Okay. But uh it seems like it's uh unless I'm wrong, it seems unconventional for us to do pre-zone. Uh we we typically have these non- urban residents uh district lots and then we just deal with them when that time comes that someone who owns that land or is willing to buy that land, a property owner, presents their idea and comes to the city. So this is seems a little bit more like a blanket appro uh not approval because obviously the conditional aspect remains. We have some discretion but it just seems like we're kind of you know jumping ahead compared to what we've done. Well certainly Mr. Mayor you're correct. This is out of the ordinary relative to our past practice in Town Center and elsewhere in the city. We generally wait for a proposal and then work from that proposal forward. Um, as I say, we have a group of council members that are charged with basically doing the best they can to bring economic development and and and new uses in that vein to the city of Wildwood. Um, I would just give you a footnote to all of this. When Andreas Dewani was here and developed the town center plan, there was in his report a recommendation to pre-zone all of town center. So as the development community would not have to go through that step and spend months and months of time. Ultimately, when we took the draft plan out to the public, that was not an an idea that they supported and so we didn't do it. Um

Yeah. and and I think of that's what makes Wildwood unique is that we didn't reszone think compared to other areas. So um feel that's a protection that we have by handling it in an individual basis. The best zoning is the zoning where you have something in front of you to work from. The public can see it. You as commission members can look at it, so to speak, touch it, and we as your staff can utilize it and compare it to all of our codes, regulations, and requirements. It's not to say this is a cart blanch approach. Certainly, we'll do we have a set of protections that came in the first step of this process. Those would be the minimums as I see it. And we and this is in our code already. You can actually pre-zone property and what you do then is you hold a public hearing when the site development plan is submitted. The site development plan becomes the de facto reszoning request. And in the ordinance you can guarantee that the site development plan isn't just a pass through. you can deny a site development plan based upon non-compliance or other components that you find unacceptable. So again, I just want to assure everyone this isn't like we're stepping back from the the control that 30 plus years ago the incorporators fought so hard to rest from St. Louis County. All we're trying to do from the perspective of the department is to address economic development in a way that is least impactful but beneficial to our residents. And I'll just make one comment on that. Personally, I liked the idea of

prezoning just because of the simple fact that in the town center, every time we get one of these denser developments, it's usually coming from a non-urban tract. And then people are like, "Wait a minute. The this was supposed to be non- urban. What are you doing making them dense housing?" And no, it was it's part of the neighborhood general or neighborhood edge district which allows denser zoning. And there's an inherent after being on this board for 10 almost 10 years now, almost every time, there's a confusion there. And so that's what that's personally that's why I kind of like the idea. But um there's other comments. Uh Commissioner Halffreen.

So first thing I'd like to say is thank you to everybody who came out and and speaks about it. I I took notes and I paid attention. We all pay attention up here. Uh I would like to say that when uh as a member of the planning and zoning department, I was part of the town center update committee and we got interrupted with that with the pandemic and um at that time it was recognized that really drive-throughs really did serve a purpose, especially during the pandemic when we couldn't go and go do anything. Drive-throughs were kind of nice. We voted on it. We put it in the town center and it came back 50/50 pretty pretty close to 50/50. Yes for them, no for them. And so we we didn't have them. This came up a couple months ago and we talked about it and I'm I said Vicki said I think we should have drive-throughs down Old Manchester Road or at least have that in the workplace center. And um the conversation was that let's try to keep it on this this 109. So, I will say I listen to everything people said and and um I drive 109 the other way. I go to work the other way. And I will say I don't think MDOT has it down. And so when my concern with all of this is this the roundabouts and the getting in and out of these properties at the roundabout entrances in this neighborhood, which I would have never thought of. I don't live there, so I didn't um and I think that we would do a disservice if we don't really really look at that and try to address that problem because uh that the traffic will be a nightmare and the safety will be a nightmare. I will say though that I think that uh the city of Wildwood does a very good job of putting parameters on

people and I would like to believe that if a McDonald went in that we would not let them have a double lane drive-thru with LED lights and yellow signs all over the place. Um I don't think that that's Wildwood. I don't think we would allow that. So my ask going forward is before it comes back to us um I would like to know how we would address the lighting issues, the noise issues, the access issues, the traffic issues. Uh specifically of the two lots um they were number seven and eight. Um I it looks like one and two might be off and they would be okay because they're on the other side of 109 and on the other side of Old Manchester Road. Um I also would like to know uh for this lot number three and number four. I know that that's the reserves over there and I know that we've made the the along 109 to be conver commercial lots, but um I'm pretty sure that those people that that would be buying in there probably uh I'm concerned about having a drive-thru right in front of that neighborhood as well. I mean, it just just I don't know. It just seems like the traffic's going to be a problem. So, I I'm asking that before this all comes back to us that we have some a little bit more concrete answers on those particular intersections. And for the record, I'm still for allowing uh drive-throughs down Old Manchester. So, thank you, Mr. Vunich.

So, again, this help lighting, noise, access, and traffic were the four items.

Yeah. Specifically in the area, those lots. And when I say noise, I I know that we have a noise ordinance here in Wildwood, but I I I will tell you my neighbors lawn crew shows up at 7:00 every week and it I hear it. Then the rest of the day it's lawnmowers. And you know, I'm okay with that, right? Cuz I'm on my lawn, too. But if it's going to be something that is a lot of noise, like car washes or all the vacuums, I uh I think that that bears consideration. and the lighting all night long. If if we are telling people, well, we you know, we want to address the night sky and the LED lights that we've worked so hard to contain, but if a building has lights all around it to say, "Hey, we're here." How does that affect all that?

Well, certainly to use the last example, I think it's kind of symbolic of how Wildwood treats particular developments. If you're if the business is closed, there's really not a need to have all your lights on. Um the next item on the agenda is the electronic message center for the Monarch Fire Protection District. We created hours of operation, right?

Because on Wildfires Creek Road, for example, you don't necessarily need to have a sign on when nobody's on the road. And that would hold true across all components of land use. It's not necessary. Why are you doing it?

Right? And the other, you know, we say in here, we'll do landscape screening, but I also have seen, uh, many instances where somebody says they're going to do landscape screening and something dies and then we are having to fight them to replace it. And so, um, I I just I I would hope that we can do, uh, just have some better answers than I feel like I feel like we don't have a lot of answers right now. And maybe that's me being not as informed as I should be, but I feel

well from the department's perspective, long before we bring back an information report or reports with recommendations, I think you as a commission member and the others on the commission as well as those that spoke tonight or attended the hearings need the answer to those questions you identified. What is our approach to lighting relative to commercial businesses? What is our strengths and weaknesses relative to managing noise, access, and traffic? I'm going to defer to Mr. Brown who is our director of public works and city engineer. Much of what you see out on Route 109 is a collaborative effort between the Department of Public Works here at the city and the Missouri Department of Transportation.

Right. Well, I I would appreciate any answers you can get us, Mr. Thank you. It can only help as we move forward with other properties to understand these are the strengths and weaknesses. These are the things we can control and these are the things that sometimes as you say as a project ages all those good ideas get left behind or a few of them get left behind. All right, Commissioner Jackson. Mayor, did you want to say something? I could tell why it's fresh on your mind. I'll yield to you. Please can't wait to see that, but I'll let uh Council Member Marshall on yourself speak.

Okay. So, my comment is more of a statement. It's kind of an educational. So, Wildwood gets paid by a pool of taxes. So, if a McDonald's came in, they can go across the line in another city and we share in that. I just wanted everyone to know and because we're talking econ, this came out of economic development. So, also I'm going to tie this to the data center thing, right? So we got ahead of that and Miss Hellfrey was really big on that and that was a good thing. There are those that think that's good economic development. My company does a lot in the data center world, fiber optics and etc. So I got calls from people would you educate me on what do we need this or that city council etc. So we were able to put it over in Chesterfield right in the industrial area. That's where it can go. So it doesn't So that's a good thing that we're getting ahead of that right in this I can see the economic development coming and but if you you're going to attract a McDonald's or whatever if you zone it in advance and say hey it's conducive to a drive-thru. So I'm with the mayor on until it comes just let sleeping dogs kind of lie. But I understand we've got a now I see where things are coming from. The economic development committee is tasking you and then it's got to run through P&Z. So, we might want to think about the communicate on that before we have this happen. And

oh, and my wife said, by the way, if you want to put her, she's with them on the submittal. I just FYI, I texted her. So, anyway, appreciate your wife's input, but well, you know, Stacy, you know, you know Stacy, Joe,

but again, I think this is the process. I appreciate the fact that people don't necessarily want to come up to city hall on a Monday night. Great. once a month. But government is participatory. If you sit back and things happen that you don't like, who are you going to blame? We post a site, we put it in the paper, we send out mailings within 3,000 ft. We want you here because you're our best gauge of is this right or is this wrong. Thank you, Councilman.

Sure. I just want to ask the question, Mr. age economic development wants this to get pushed through for this overall zoning. How much quicker the development go through if the first pass of zoning is done it me it wouldn't make much more than a month difference that

actually since the city council and planning and zoning commission went to meetings once a month a typical zoning now takes anywhere from four to six months and that's one that doesn't have certain controversy or um delays so it's a pretty substantial time frame if the properties at least have the fundamentals in place. So as the next step may just be a site plan or some refinement to the permit itself or the underlying zoning.

I I just believe that there always going to be a lot of debate about a particular one and I think trying to do all at one time is just creating more confusion on ones. I mean, I know we talked about banks, but we have like four empty banks in the city right now. So, it's not like somebody's going to come in and drop a bank in there. And the same thing with professional office space. It's it's gone, you know. So, in that particular case, I I just think that maybe some purview and and I I certainly understand how many months it takes, but I'm just not sure trying to get everything through and having half of the people against it, half the people in favor of just to be able to say, well, now you could get through in two months versus four months is really worth all that the confusion it might create. Just my two cents worth. Thank you.

And again, that's why the department is here. it wants to basically gauge if this is something we should proceed forward with or not. Certainly, I think at the end of day an indefinite postponement or withdrawal as directed by the commission is an option. Um, I still think before that action is taken. I think the comments deserve to be addressed at least regarding the traffic and and access out of Main Street onto Route 109 at the roundabout. it is is as described. I think the city needs to know that as well as the Missouri Department of Transportation.

Go ahead. I I will just say I I have a no vote of confidence for Missouri Department of Revenue with their driving. You mean Missouri Department of Transportation?

Yeah, transportation. Sorry. Both of them. Hey, whatever. Uh the Department of Transportation can't seem to get 109 right. And so if this woman is waiting 1 to four minutes to get out of her neighborhood, I don't know. I don't know what she's going to do with when the neighborhood go. Well, I I timed the light at 109 and Clayton, so I got you, girl. Um, but I I uh I don't know what they're going to do when we have all of the other homes coming in, you know, that that we want to come in. So, you know, the traffic huge thing. Well, as you know, as part of every packet of information you get, as part of an information report through the letter of recommendation, we don't move forward without traffic studies or analyses. So, we're looking at the circumstances to make sure is it not is it in anyone's best interest for us to create traffic congestion? No. Is it in anyone's best interest to create an unsafe situation? No. We depend on experts and what I'm finding is the driving public can sometimes befuddle experts.

All right, Mary Kitano.

Yeah, just a quick comment. Hopefully this will wrap it up for us on this topic here. Um, back to the prezoning versus individual. I prefer the individual. I understand where economic development is coming from. Uh but also, you know, when we're considering drive-thrus, I think that unique parcel, wherever it is, has to be looked at individually compared to other parcels. We have today about 12 drive-throughs in the city of Wildwood. Uh gas stations that have car washes, the mobile, uh the Jack in the Box is closed right now. We have several banks. So the bank over at Village Plaza that just relocated Bank Houston, the Bank of America site that's vacant, Lindle Bank, uh Panera, uh Panera, that's an interesting story. Red Company, they used to be located where Shnooks is and they basically had told Wildwood years ago that they had to find a location with a drive-thru otherwise they were leaving Wildwood uh because that's part of their business model. So, fortunately, that worked out where they are today. They're able to stay. Uh the Starbucks, uh PNC Bank, uh we've got uh the electro savings. So, yeah, it adds up. We have several drive-throughs, but I do think we have to look at it on a case-byase basis because the way we would look at a lot here in the downtown district is going to be a lot different than what we look at at a lot that's adjacent to a residential area in 109 or somewhere. So, I would uh think that that would make best sense to just wait and see what proposal comes in and then we can look at if there's conditions that have to be put in depending on where it is so forth. It's just like what we saw with the multiuse development to the east of the movie theater. There's no residential adjacent to it. Uh there's not much uh that

anyone really next to it could comment about it because comment was generally very quiet, but it'd be a lot different if it was located next to a neighborhood on 109 because there would be people directly impacted next to it. So, uh that's where I leave it at and hopefully maybe the next item is going to be very similar discussion and keep moving. Thank you. Yes, sir. Thank you, Commissioner Rubis. If if a business wanted to come in, say Bank of America or Electro Credit Union, and they wanted to turn it into a fast food restaurant, they would have the right for drive-thru. Correct.

Not necessarily. For example, Electro Savings in that ordinance, that lot's limited to a financial institution with drive-thru or professional office. Period. Nothing else. Um, Bank of America is a different story. As you know, we have a drive-thru in conjunction with Panera Bread Company. That certainly is a drive-through as is. So, that's an option. As I said, we looked out into the future and said, right now, financial institutions are not necessarily as stable as they once were. So, that's why we identified certain properties for redevelopment. Would that be across the street uh in in that uh shopping center there? Those bank uh I think it's Lindle Bank where where the central bank vacated

is that got strictly a financial institution. The location we looked at are the two lots that are in front of village plaza. We did not go that second tier to Village Plaza because around it is residential. Thank you. And uh Mr. Lee, I I don't know if I ever let you speak earlier. Did you still want to say something?

Yeah, thank you so much, Chair. I appreciate that. And I want to say thank you to everybody that came out tonight just to give a little bit more context behind the request. It was really revolving around the fact that the conditional use permit originally those properties uh that were marked the uh workplace SR 100 109 district subdist now um do have the ability to have a drive-through facility from that discussion. Uh the idea was let's try to make that even a smaller pie and potentially have not necessarily fast food. But the reason why prezoning was was a discussion topic obviously to pass on to the commission was more so to set criteria upfront so that we could avoid proposals because right now we do have the ability there is a conditional use permit that's associated with it. Uh but it is allowed at least more than it was to avoid the you know quick service type restaurants and possibly more so focus in on the limited service or fast casual restaurant something that would be more like a Chipotle or a a high point that's not necessarily drive-thru centric. It also focuses on dining uh dine in. So the idea was to try to set that parameter up front so that we the city wouldn't be bombarded um with potential applications from the the likes of something like McDonald's or the Taco Bells of the world. Uh that was the original intent from the economic development committee. And the other thing was just adding in that if they were to pre-zone, you know, making sure that the architectural component was strictly adhered to so that a lot of these fast food restaurants that would come in, um, they aren't able to budge at all or move the needle, if you will, uh, for how they design their their establishment, they have a one, you know, cookie cutter approach or this is how we build it. Um the idea was originally to set up a expectation up front that you're going to have to build it unique like wild would expect for

most of our developments. So in that case it was to try to weed out some of these quick service proposals that may come in in the future and really kind of hamper in and you know nail down some of the more highly desirable um you know limited service restaurants is more the better word for it. But just wanted to add that piece. And then also given the conditional use permit still being there, that would obviously serve as the the trigger point to ensure that we could um you know there would be still be a large amount of review that would take place, but just wanted to add that background. Thank you. All right. Thank you, Mr. Lee. Um anything else? Motion to close the public hearing.

All right. Motion by Commissioner Jackson, second by uh Commissioner Clayton. Um any discussion? All those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Any abstain? All right. Public hearing is closed. Thank you everyone. All right. That is the last of the public hearings. So now PZ3-26. Mr. Newberry.

PZ3-26. Monarchic Fire Protection District 13725 Olive Boulevard, Chesterfield, Missouri 63017. Request for a conditional use permit CU in the NU non-Urban Residence District for a 3-acre tract of land that is located on the south side of Wild Horse Creek Road at its intersection with Etheertton Road. Street addresses 1304 Wild Horse Creek Road 131 18304 Wild Horse Creek Road, Unit A. St. Louis County locator numbers 1 19W510215 and 1 19W510194. proposed use of permanent electronic message center EMC to be operated in association with the existing fire station ward one. Thank you, Mr. Newberry, Mr. Vich.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair and members of the planning and zoning commission, as you may recall, the public hearing on this matter was held on March 2nd of this year. And at the conclusion of the public hearing, the planning and zoning commission authorized the preparation of a letter of recommendation in draft form in lie of the intermediary step of the information report with recommendation of the department. So tonight you are looking and reviewing a draft of the letter of recommendation relative to this electronic message center. As you know, several years ago, the city of Wildwood granted a conditional use permit for a new fire station at the intersection of Etherton Road and Wild Horse Creek Road. The fire station was replace an older facility, still on Wild Horse Creek Road, but west of Route 109. The older facility was such that an ambulance could not be stationed there to serve the residents of Wildwood and Chesterfield from that location. The new station obviously addressed that issue and certainly adds more equipment and greater services. As part of the development of that site, the fire district installed a monument sign with electronic message centers. The fire district was advised by the department that those types of signs are prohibited and that signage is done under a separate permit, not as part of the site development plan or improvement plans. Ultimately, the fire district agreed and cooperated with the city and did not operate it till such time that either electronic message centers were authorized as a type of signage in

Wildwood and then depending on the requirements granted the right. Tonight, the department has prepared for you a favorable recommendation relative to the electronic message center at the Monarch Fire Protection District. As you know, when we did the research relative to electronic message centers, we had Randy Burrhead of Reed Burrat Lighting Design help us understand the components we needed to manage to ensure that they were least impactful, but certainly would serve the purpose for the fire district. Those requirements form the core of this particular report and letter of recommendation and they are reflected in attachment B of the conditions. The attachments reflect the type of sign that's in place and establishes the parameters for the operation of the center. The parameters as I've mentioned reflect the core components that now are part of our sign regulations plus address other instances relating to landscaping Kelvin etc. So tonight there is a favorable letter of recommendation before you for consideration and action and the department is available for any comments or questions regarding this particular matter. Thank you.

All right. Thank you Mr. Venic. Um, Commissioner Jackson. Motion to approve as presented. Um, Commissioner Clayton. Yes, sir.

All right. So, I'm just going to bring this up. Um about 10 years ago or maybe even longer than that, I was out mountain biking with a friend or with a guy who taught at Lafayette and he had been complaining about Lafayette's inability to get one of these 10 years ago or more. Um and so I'm I'm not a big fan of the ask for forgiveness rather than permission. And so I don't know. I I'm not I'm not as gung-ho about approving this until Lafayette gets theirs.

Well, I can give context at least in terms of both of your statements. First, fire district was very gracious and did not operate it to create a real issue. They've kept and I appreciate that they've kept it off. Um they have no signage other than uh I believe a wall sign on the front that designates the station number, etc. Secondly, the Lafayette High School leadership has issued an RFP, request for proposals to the signage community, and they are working on it as we speak.

All right. I mean, I'm happy to approve it, but I I kind of want to my personal opinion is to table it until Lafayette gets it, but um not I won't hold it up any more than that. They've been pa the fire district has been patient and certainly uh as soon as we have something submitted from Lafayette High School, you'll be the first to know. All right. Thank you. All right. Anything else? All right. Uh roll call vote. Commissioner Hoffrey, yes. Commissioner Clayton, yes. Commissioner Dupler,

yes. Commissioner Jackson, yes. Commissioner Rubis, yes. Commissioner Borne, yes. Chair Batty, no. Council member Marshall, yes. Mayor Geritano. Thank you. Motion carries. Thank you.

All right. Um, request from Lombardo Holmes. Uh, Mr. Vinnich. Oh, sorry. Move the script. The item is a request from the Lardo Homes of Missouri LLC for Research Park Drive, Sweet 130 St. Charles, Missouri 63304-5638. that is seeking a waiver to the city requirements that all large lot single family cell divisions install package wastewater treatment plants in areas of the Wildwood community not currently served by public sanitary sewers which if granted would thereby allow the use of individual household wastewater treatment systems for service to each of the proposed lots of record. This large lot single family subdivision is being proposed upon approximately 55 acre track of land located on the south side of St. in Alburn's Road, State Route T, west of the intersection with State Route 100. FPNU flood plane non-urban resident district and NU non- urban resident district. Street addresses 18604 and 18700 St. Albins's Road, St. Louis County, locator numbers 24X 440014 and 24 Y640022. proposed use. A total of 16 single family dwellings on individual lots are being requested on the subject tract of land, each being three acres or greater in size along with necessary private roadway improvements to access them along with common ground area with visitor parking spaces. The reserve at St. Albins's and this particular attractive land is located in ward six.

All right. Thank you, Mr. Vinnich, Mr. Newberry.

Thank you, Mr. Chair, Mr. Chair, members of the planning and zoning commission. Before you tonight for final action is a draft letter of recommendation um regarding this request for a waiver to the city's requirements for wastewater treatment. Um the draft letter recommendation um reflects the action of the commission on March 2nd to support the requested waiver um and is ready for your action and to be forwarded to city council. Um the commission supported the waiver requests based on a set of conditions. um the number of lots were reduced to 14 and then other provisions um very comprehensive provisions to ensure long-term maintenance of the individual systems as well as other protections if an additional lot would be sought in the future. Um and just to reiterate um the action of the commission on March 2nd and tonight is regarding the waiver request for wastewater treatment and just be advised that the preliminary plow will have to return to the commission for future review as well. So this is just regarding the waiver request and again the draft letter of recommendation is in the final form for your action and to be forwarded to city council. Thank you.

Thank you Mr. Newberry. So even though it says 16 on the agenda, we it the updated is 14 lots. The report reflects the 14 lots. Yes. All right. Thank you. Yep. All right. All right. Uh discussion or Commissioner Rubis. Make a motion that we approve the letter. All right. Motion to approve by Commissioner Rubis, seconded by Commissioner Hellfrey. Um any further discussion? All right, seeing none, roll call vote. Commissioner Rubis, I. Commissioner Borne,

yes. Commissioner Hoffrey, yes. Commissioner Clayton, yes. Commissioner Dppler, yes. Chair Batty, yes. Council member Marshall, yes. Mayor Garana, thank you. Motion carries. Thank you. All right. All right. Next on the agenda, PZ 10-25. Mr. Newberry.

PZ 10-25 Luxury Villas at Latitude N38. Care of Latitude N38 LLC. 11605 ST Avenue, sweet 102 Crecore, Missouri 63141. A request for a change in zoning from the Inu non urban residence district to the R6A 4000 foot residence district town center neighborhood general district or 6.9 acre tract of land that is located at the southeast corner of Etheon Road and Cusby Drive. Locator numbers 23V 2110140 23V 2110151 23V 211021 and 23V 22020022. Street address is 2442 24482454 Etheertton Road and 16928 Cresby Drive W 8 and PZ1 11-25 Luxury Villas at latitude in38 care of latitude in38 LLC 11605 set avenue sweet 102 Crecore Missouri 63141 a request for a plan residential development overlay district PRD in the R6A 4,000T residence district town center neighborhood general district for the same 6.9 acre tract of land that is Located at the southeast corner of Etherton Road and Crestview Drive. Located numbers 23V 2110140, 23V 2110151, 23V 211021, and 23V 2200022. Street addresses 2442, 2448, 2454 Etheertton Road and 16928 Cresby Drive. Proposed uses a total of a maximum of 44 single family attached dwellings and clusters of three and four and six units along with associated streets and pedestrian network off streetet parking areas required public space and storm water management facilities ward 8.

Thank you Mr. Newberry Mr. Vinnich.

Thank you Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair and members of the planning and zoning commission. As you may recall at the March 2nd meeting of this body, the matter relating to the two requests just read into tonight's record by Mr. Newberry was presented in the form of an information report and a recommendation from the Department of Planning. At the conclusion of the discussion, a vote was taken to deny the two requests and that vote was in majority to move forward as recommended by the department of planning. The letter of recommendation tonight is in draft form for final consideration and action by the planning and zoning commission. With final action, that matter the matter will then be forwarded to city council as a receipt and file. Certainly uh Mr. Doster has made comments relative to the review of the project by the department of planning. The department of planning stands by the rationale it's identified in its report that were acted upon favorably by planning and zoning commission at its March 2nd meeting. So tonight, as mentioned, this letter of recommendation is now in the appropriate form for final action. Thank you.

All right. Thank you, Mr. Vich. Uh, discussion or a motion. Commissioner Hry, I make a motion to approve as written. All right. Second by Councilman Marshall. Any discussion. All right. Seeing none, roll call vote. Commissioner Borne, yes. Commissioner Borne votes yes. Commissioner Hoffrey, yes. Commissioner Clayton, yes. Commissioner Deppler, yes. Commissioner Deppler votes yes. Commissioner Rubis, yes. Chair Batty, no. Council member Marshall, yes. And Mayor Garano,

yes. All right, motion carries. Thank you. Um, Mr. Newberry, PZ1-26.

PZ1-26, City of Wildwood Planning and Zoning Commission Care of Department of Planning, Wildwood, City Hall, 1 16860 Main Street, Wildwood, Missouri 63040. A request to consider amendments to chapter 415 of the code of ordinances of the city of Wildwood to regulate and restrict the use of land for operation of facilities commonly referred to as information technology and data processing facilities or data centers and establishing specific performance standards to address potential adverse impacts including noise pollution, utility infrastructure demands, visual aesthetics and environmental footprints and other matters relating to the general health, safety and welfare of the residents of the city and other matters related there too. All awards. All right. Thank you, Mr. Newberry. Mr. Vinnich.

Thank you again, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, members of the Planning and Zoning Commission. Again, at the March 2nd meeting of this body, the Department of Planning presented its information report with recommendation regarding uh what are commonly known as data centers. That recommendation wanted to achieve two goals. Bull's goals were to ensure that any future data centers would be located in the Wildwood portion of the Chesterfield Valley and that those data centers would meet a general and what the department believes rigorous set of performance standards. minus the minus as part of that report were certain definitions as was noted at the conclusion of the discussion and before the vote on March 2nd. Those definitions were being prepared by our city attorney and have been included as part of the draft letter of recommendation. Mr. Young's firm has had extensive experience with data centers particularly in the rural areas of St. Charles County and beyond. And the definitions I think reflect first and foremost data centers as defined and the components of that definition to ensure that the interpretation that may follow will be closely monitored and assure that we do not have a data center that doesn't necessarily comply. So tonight, the draft letter of recommendation is in the appropriate form for final consideration by the planning and zoning commission. And if there are any questions or comments, the department be glad to answer them at this time.

All right. Thank you, Mr. Vinnich. Commissioner Hellfrey.

Thank you, Mr. Vinc, for putting all the definitions in like I asked. Um, I do have a question though. Uh, on the conditions where I think it's page the top of page nine, it says number one A, it addresses the groundwater and storm management and wastewater noise level and lighting and electrical consumption. And so what I want to know is how do we prevent them being able to use our electricity and our water and then us have to pay a percentage? Because I know that I read somewhere in Missouri that they Amaran came to an agreement with some data center that they would only be responsible for 80% of their electric consumption. And I I don't want that to happen here. I mean, do we can we do that? Have we have the teeth to do that? Because because if we can't, then I'm going to turn my house a data center so that I only have to pay for 80% of my electrical consumption. Well, as I recall from the March 2nd meeting, Mr. Young made it clear the state legislature has that authority and part of that authority lies with the public service commission. It's well beyond our ability to manage Amron Missouri or Missouri American Water Company. The intent of the performance standards is to ensure that it is that first and foremost water is a public source, not from groundwater impacting many of the large lot areas that depend on wells for potable purposes. And to at least ensure at the at the minimum that all data centers proposed in the city of Wildwood meet current state statute. And so we're deferring to the state

legislature for those protections. And if our acting city attorney has any insights, I'd be certainly glad to def yield the podium at this time. Okay. Thank you. I would agree with that. Commissioner Clayton, make a motion to approve the letter as draft. All right. Seconded by Councilman Marshall. Um, any other discussion. All right, seeing none, roll call vote. Commissioner Hoffrey, yes. Commissioner Clayton,

yes. Commissioner Dupler, yes. Commissioner Rubis, yes. Commissioner Borin, yes. Chair Batty. Yes. Council member Marshall, yes. Mayor Gerano, thank you. Motion carries. Thank you. All right. Um, let's see here. Uh, PZ4-26. Mr. Vunich.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. 04-26 city of planning and zoning commission care of the department of planning city 16860 Main Street Woo Missouri 63040 a request for the review and consideration of modifications chapter 415.030 definitions chapter 415.090 090 and your non-urban resident district and chapters 415.110 through 415.160 such being inclusive of all our districts of the city of Wildwood zoning ordinance specifically regarding the the city's existing review standards processes and requirements associated with outdoor game courts parenthetical sport court along with their corresponding review processes by the planning and zoning commission. and subsequent permitting steps by the city. The item is in all words. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Vunich. Mr. Newberry.

Thank you, Mr. Chair, Mr. Chair, members of the planning and zoning commission as was begun last month in March with a public hearing regarding this item. Um, the commission moved forward with a review of the city's out uh regulations regard regarding outdoor game courts. Um these regulations have been in place and implemented uh for about 12 years. Um so we all thought it was a good time to take a look at them and make sure that they're still working and if we can approve upon them. So just I want to briefly go over the department's analysis of the current regulations and its proposed um modifications. Um first uh we looked at the definition of outdoor game court and our current regulations. We found it to be very comprehensive with just a few uh small additions relative to um multi multiple use courts um as well as addressing um the pickle ball activity specifically. Um thereafter the regulations um many of them were maintained if not all of them and simply a structural change to the way that they were written um is being recommended tonight. They are broken into different categories. The first of which is the what is identified as the plan submittal requirements um which clearly define what needs to be submitted for the commission's review of outdoor game courts. Um perhaps the the most um important from the department's perspective um item in this component is that the plans need to be submitted by an a professional engineer um which is a lesson learned from uh former formal submit submittals. Um the next component is related to the plan commission's review and the process. So the recommended language um is including this section that clearly defines the commission's role in reviewing outdoor game courts and the the meeting or meetings that it would review, approve or act on and then ultimately approve a final plan um through that process. This also clearly defines the public notice

requirements that have been the practice of the department but this formalizes it. Um so um that concludes that component. Again this is just a kind of a restructuring and a clarification um of the current regulations. And then lastly is the new one and that relates to the pickle ball court activity. Um so as uh we learn more about pickle ball and the noises it creates um the department is recommending that we specifically identify pickleball activity as a special type of use related to outdoor game courts. And with that comes we we're recommending that we establish a minimum lot area for any pickle ball activity which is 1 acre is what we're recommending and then establish a greater setback than is typical of uh regular um accessory structures. and that's um being recommended at um 150 feet from the property line. And then lastly, we established provisions to be able to manage the noise concerns on a case-by case basis as the commission reviews specific proposals and establish hours of operation for pickle ball activity um to go no later than 9:00 p.m. 7 days a week on residential lots. So before you tonight is a recommended modified outdoor game court regul definition and regulations and those are summarized in an attachment A and we're available for any questions if you have them.

All right. Thank you Mr. Newberry. Commissioner Hry. I make a motion to approve the city's recommendation. Seconded by So motion by Commissioner Hellfrey. Seconded by Commissioner Rubis. Any discussion? Councilman Marshall. Do any of the with the setback being changed, do any of the older courts that have been put in, will they be out of compliance or will they be in compliance?

I we've done so just a little background, we've done only three courts that had pickle law activity associated with them. Um, and those have been within the last I'll say four years. Um the first was on a ve a very large lot and the setback component was not necessarily reviewed given the size of the lot and location centrally located on the lot. The second was on a 3acre parcel in Wardenberg farm. I believe we did establish a greater setback and I apologize I don't have the answer but I that one may come into conflict with the 150 foot setback. Um, and then we did one on Shepard Ridge Court and I think that one was established at 100 foot and that that was because we had it on a case-by case basis.

Thank you. It's a good question, Mr. Chair, if I may. Yes, sir. From the standpoint of the department and the zoning ordinance, if an existing pickle ball court um is non-compliant due to setbacks, the non-conforming uses lance in structures actually say it's not non-conforming because of the setbacks. So, it would be legal. if they were to add to it, the new setback would apply.

If as um to add on to that, if they had if they like did a pretty good like refurbishment somewhere down the line, they're good. Okay. All right. If seeing no other comments, uh roll call vote. Commissioner Deppler. Yes. Commissioner Jackson. Oh, excuse me, Mr. Jackson. Uh, Commissioner Rubis, yes. Commissioner Borne, no. Uh, Commissioner Borne votes no. Um, Commissioner Hoffrey, yes. Commissioner Clayton,

yes. Chair Batty, yes. Council member Marshall, yes. Mayor Garitano. Motion carries. Thank you. All right. See here. Uh, Mr. Newberry, PZ5-10.

A recommendation report of the Department of Planning to the Planning and Zoning Commission regarding PZ 5-10 Ecoin Assisted Therapy Inc. Care of Steven H. acre uh 13321 North Outer 40 Road, Sweet 100 Town Country, Missouri 63017. Conditional use permit in the NU non-Urban Residence District and FPNU flood plane non-Urban Residence District, a 14.63 acre tract of land located on the west side of Highway 109 north of Old State Road. Locator numbers 26V520112 and 26V52013. Street addresses 3369, Highway 109 and 4029. Princeton Ridge Drive, which supports certain changes to the existing conditions of the permit to further the use of the property for horse boarding facility for the purposes of providing horsemanship experiences to special needs groups. Ward six.

All right. Thank you, Mr. Newberry, Mr. Vernich.

Thank you again, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair and members of the planning and zoning commission, the department has prepared for your consideration a letter with recommendation relating to ecoin assisted therapy. There are three major components that Ecoin Assisted Therapy is requesting the planning and zoning commission consider favorably. The first of those is a new two-story building that they would like to construct for office counseling and storage purposes. That building would be where the glass greenhouse is located now on the property if you're familiar or near Route 109. The second component would be to place a roof over the outdoor riding arena so as it can be weatherproofed and also provide shade for users during the hot summer months. That structure would be open air meaning it would be a roof on post. And finally, as you know, many years ago, Eichcoin assisted therapy leased property from Lasal Institute to use for additional pasture area. That ultimately changed. The property was purchased by Ecoquin Assisted Therapy from Lasal Institute and the conditional use permit needs to be updated to reflect the change from a lease arrangement to ownership. I would also note as part of this particular set of requests, the petitioner would like to increase the number of equin from 13 to 26. If you do the math, it's still about a equin per acre. And that's the general rule of thumb that many use, particularly if they are grass-fed. But in this case, the equin are grass-fed. Plus, there are feeding stations or hay um hay mangers

that are used. The department has reviewed the request and believe they are appropriate and consistent with the four criteria established for conditional use permits which relate to good planning practice compatibility with permitted uses in that particular zoning district visual compatibility and then finally is there a community benefit derived from the permit relative to the public's health safety and welfare. As you know, ecoin assisted therapy provides a service that is much needed in the region and certainly do it very well to those that participate. The department does note that this property is in flood plane and floods. And so as part of um all reviews, our department of public works and our director Rick Brown as flood plane administrator will ensure that compliance to federal regulations will be met. So tonight you have a favorable recommendation. The changes are highlighted in attachment B and if there are any questions or comments the department be glad to try to answer them at this time. Thank you.

All right. Thank you Mr. Vinnich. Um discussion or a motion. Commissioner Rubis was this was the property that services a septic system for both the Lel and Lel Middle School. No, the that particular property is on the north side of Witet Park Road. The new purchase ground and the existing facility are south of Wits. No, the septic system would not come into play.

They have a on-site system. There is provisions in the conditional use permit. If they exceed 5,000 gallons of wastewater per day, they'd have to come back and do a plan, but we're not at that stage yet. All right, Councilman Marshall, I make a motion to forward the recommendation. All right, thank you. Second by Commissioner Hellfrey. Any further discussion? Seeing none, roll call vote.

Commissioner Rubis, yes. Commissioner Bourne, yes. Thank you. Uh, Commissioner Hoffrey, yes. Commissioner Clayton, yes. Commissioner Deppler, yes. Chair Batty, yes. Council member Marshall, yes. And Mayor Garano, thank you. Motion carries. Thank you.

Next, uh, Mr. Newberry, um, Hollow Hills Estates. In response to a communication from Jonathan Hill, property owner, dated February 12, 2026, that seeks the planning and zoning commission's review and recommendation on a requested change to an approved waiver to the installation of centralized wastewater treatment plant granted to this residential project by the city for the Hills Hollow Estates subdivision. JGH Building Group LLC, NU non-Urban Residence District, 31 acres and north northwest corner of State Route 100 and Pond Road. Street address 1855 and 1871 Pond Road and 20005 Linda Jane Lane. St. St. Louis County locator numbers 23W6101, 23W610110, and 23W520 086, which reflects changes to the preliminary plat that eliminates any future option for 9th lot or one.

Thank you, Mr. Newberry, Mr. Vinnich.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair and members of the planning and zoning commission, the department has prepared for your consideration a recommendation in letter form relating to a request from Mr. Hill relative to Hills Hollow Estates. If you remember, the planning and zoning commission granted a waiver to a centralized wastewater treatment plan for the 31 acre tract of land on which eight large lots are proposed. large lots being greater than three acres in size. The waiver was conditioned on a number of requirements. Um, one set of requirements related to the design and ultimate platting of the property to ensure that if a ninth lot was ever required, there would be provisions to accommodate such. That particular requirement was premised on an easement that was shown from the end of the western culde-sac through the site and up to the adjoining property to the north almost ensuring that a ninth lot potentially could be requested or more. Therefore, it made logical sense to require it. Mr. Hill has revised the preliminary plat and no longer shows that access easement to the north property that abuts the current site. With that removal, there is now the likelihood that a ninth lot will never come to fruition. Given the sizes of the lots and the fact that two lots are encumbered by a portion of Bottom Creek, it would take three property owners to ultimately agree to basically consolidate their lots and then resubdivide to four. The likelihood of

that seems very impractical in today's world and would probably be prohibited by the natural resource protection standards, the tree preservation and restoration code and other regulations of the city. The benefit to the petitioner is that there is not the requirements to plat the necessary easements for the plant or the easements for lines, laterals, and mains to the plant for each individual lot. And more importantly, the design of the homes will not require the wastewater treatment to serve to a a individual plant now and potentially to a f individual household treatment systems on the lot in a plant in the future. The department believes the request is reasonable given the circumstances and has um has provided you a recommendation that eliminates those sets of conditions relative to the ninth lot. If there are any questions or comments regarding this particular matter, the department be glad to try to answer them at this time. Thank you.

All right. Thank you, Mr. Witch. So I'm looking at that map there's that uh shaded area going off the culdevac that's what's you're saying has been eliminated. Yes. Okay. Yes. That was that 40 foot wide access easement which ultimately could have been a private roadway easement or private roadway dedication. And that property to the north I believe is about 30 acres. So that was the concern. Oh, that they would use their road to develop that property.

And again, the waiver was clearly premised by the commission on that eight lots or less.

All right. Um, just playing devil's adv advocate. um if if someone decided to develop that 30 acres and wanted to use that roadway like given a magical approval that probably wouldn't happen from the subdivision. Um well, if you pull the thread, Hills Estates is eight lots. If it were to be recorded in the eight lots established legally, the argument could be made, well, how would we know that they created an easement for access purposes? In the city of Wildwood, we define a subdivision as a creation of an easement for access purposes. So, that easement constitutes a subdivision and a subdivision has to be approved by city council. So, obviously, we would address it at that time.

Okay. So, we What? That 30 acres, where does that access from? Pond Road. Oh. Oh. Oh, okay. So that All right. So that lot directly north wraps around the backside there. Exactly. Okay. Yeah. There. I think that's a better image. Thank you, Mr. Newberry. All right. Oh, I'm I'm Yeah. I was thinking of that second one in. Is that this because it looks like there's two lots there on the north.

Yes. The um the original track was about 77 acres. Ultimately was divided into three parcels of ground. The 30 plus acres that we're reviewing at this moment. the other 30 plus acres to the north and then a 7 acre tract of land and ultimately um there's been a lot of sales and transactions and the 7 acre property was purchased by the homeowner to the north of it and they use it as just recreation space. The 30 acres plus in the middle there's some back and forth about potential use of that. We've had people look at it for a subdivision. We've had a a family look at it as kind of a compound, a few homes there for mom and dad and the kids. Um, and as I say, it's kind of all just stayed in um undeveloped.

So, because Yeah, this is the track I'm referring. Oh, that that that track is accessed by Linda Jane Lane. Okay. I'm kind of I'm seeing that now. All right. Yeah. I'm sorry. All right. Um, let's see here. So, we've got a Do we have a motion on the make a motion? All right. Motion by Commissioner Rubis, second by com commissioner Clayton. Any further discussion? All right. Roll call vote. Commissioner Borin. Yes. Commissioner Hoffrey. Thank you, Mr. Commissioner Clayton. Yes. Commissioner Deepper,

yes. Commissioner Rubis, yes. Chair Batty, yes. Council member Marshall, yes. Mayor Garano, thank you. Motion carries. Thank you. All right. Uh, next, um, Mr. Newberry, PZ 13-04.

A recommendation report from the Department of Planning to the Planning and Zoning Commission regarding PZ 13-04, MLAN Properties, Inc., C8 Planned Commercial District, northwest corner of State Route 109 and New College Avenue. Street address 17101 New College Avenue, St. Louis County, locator numbers 24V 410231, which recommends the approval of upgrades to the outdoor seating in association with the Wildwood Pub and Grill that includes installation of sound mitigation steps, improvements to accessible parking and access, and construction of safety enhancements to the area of these activities. Ward one. Right. Thank you, Mr. Newberry, Mr. Vinnich.

Thank you again, Mr. Mr. Chair, Mr. Chair and members of the planning and zoning commission, the department has prepared for your consideration a recommendation rec report regarding a site development section plan that involves Wildwood Pub and Grill. In that particular report, the department thought it was important to kind of go through the sequence that has led to the outdoor dining components and the component that is being discussed tonight amongst the commission members. Over the course of a period of time from approximately 2010 to 2012, outdoor dining was authorized via site development plans or amendments to site development plans relative to the Wildwood Pub and Grill. The first set of outdoor seating was to the south of the restaurant building in an area that is below grade of New College Avenue and on the south side. The second set was added again approximately two years later and that was the area of sidewalk and and two or three parking spaces in front of the restaurant itself. As part of that review was conducted by the Metro West Fire Protection District as well as the city of Wildwood's Department of Public Works and the Department of Planning. Ultimately, additional seating was provided there. That set of outdoor seating to the south of the existing building and to the front of the building stayed in place for the most part unchanged until the pandemic. And in the recommendation report, the department kind of goes through the components during the pandemic that kind of led to tonight's discussion. Obviously, the pandemic was very

difficult for many businesses, more so, I think, than any others were restaurants. Obviously, contact amongst people in the restaurant business is incumbent upon success and with the pandemic, stay-at-home orders, masks, etc., a lot of the restaurants, particularly in Wildwood and elsewhere, went to outdoor seating to meet Department of Public Health safety guidelines. As that morphed and the emergency order was put in place by Mayor Bolan, allowances were made to accommodate the nature of the emergency and and to ensure the success of the businesses needing that emergency order. Ultimately though, what we found over the course of time is that we need to kind of backtrack and ensure what was added during the pandemic is safe today. And so that is the subject of tonight's meeting. Obviously in the report, the department identifies the components that are being addressed. Adding f fencing sections along a portion of the outdoor area to address the performance of live music from a 10x10 pop-up tent. that um sound abatement measures include landscaping, fencing, and as part of the recommendation of the department, a sound curtain on a portion of the 10x10 tent to ensure that the sound stays in the area intended, as well as the potential for acoustical panels on portions of the building. What we discovered is brick is a great um a great reflector of sound and we think that if it becomes an issue we have a solution. There is, as I mentioned, landscaping. Certain parking spaces will be

eliminated to accommodate the expanded area and we will shift accessible parking to a better location and provide easier access from those accessible that accessible space to the building itself. Also, a tactile surface will be added to the parking lot to increase um footing and traction. And then finally, new traffic control measures will be added at the edge of the outdoor area to ensure that an errant car does not create an issue. Again, the department believes that by proceeding forward with these changes, we will for all intents and purposes improve the function of the outdoor seating area, make it a better plan for the business itself, encourage the business to succeed. We will address the sound components that have caused certain complaints over the course of time and we will improve the accessibility for certain populations to the restaurant and other businesses in the center. Overall, as a result of the pandemic, we've kind of organically grown. This is the opportunity for Wildwood Pub and Grill who has been very cooperative with the department of planning and the department to address those changes that have happened over the course of time. So tonight you have a favorable recommendation regarding this particular section plan which again relates to the Wildwood Pub and Grill. If there are any questions or comments, the department would be very glad to answer them at this time. Thank you. Right. Thank you, Mr. Vunich. Um, Mayor Gerano.

Yeah. Thank you, Director Vunich. Appreciate this. I know this is important because we've had I've had since 2024 a number of complaints related to the Wildwood Pub and Grill. In fact, I don't really get any complaints from any businesses at all. If there was one that I would rank at the top of the list, this is it. I don't hear from anyone else. Um, how cooperative was the Wildwood Public and Grill with the city's previous attempts to address the issue of noise that we were hearing complaints related to? Well, certainly each time that a complaint was um was sent to you or others on staff or the police department um if the police or staff responded, it was addressed almost immediately from the from the perspective of the department, the director of the department. I think that would be echoed by the police department. At least that's what Kemp Captain Mundell has recited to me. Um I found them to be very cooperative. Obviously live music have become almost an intricral part of outdoor dining. Um for the most part it is a small area. I think what we're facing is just the reflective tendencies of the brick and sound in Wildwood does crazy things. I just can't explain it at times. We get complaints about noise from Route 100 all the way up at Wild Horse Creek Road and Austin Road and it just like I say it's just a it's a devil at times.

Well, yeah, it is interesting because the sound complaints that I would get are actually kind of right behind stage area. It is the towns at Winter Press and Old Grover Estates. I believe those two subdivisions that are closest by Metro West, but the Not Windsor crust. Wind rush, but not Windsor crust. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, wrong wrong one there. Um they're diagonally across from each other. Uh on 100 there.

So, um but the the main issue really is not just the noise. Well, the noise outside, but really people saying they hear the noise inside their house. And I went several times because I would get calls on weekends. Uh this summer was miserable. I I many times I was on the phone with our city administrator, the captain. Uh I know that there was a police report that was filed. Um there uh we had a resident I included one copy of just one example of the types of emails we would get and then there were many voicemails as well of these complaints here. I mean really to the point where we're looking at well what else do we do? You know could we revoke the the liquor license, suspend the liquor license if there's no compliance? um you know what options do we have as a city to address this because I understand our city administrator made numerous attempts to have conversations with the management. uh Thomas Lee who is here um had numerous conversations to try to get compliance to try to address the issue and it seems like every time a conversation would happen the next weekend the complaints would start coming in again and like I said I don't really get complaints on Friday Saturday nights um you know leading right up to 9:00 and numerous times I know the Wildwood police precinct sent officers there to try to address it I know that you know I love supporting our local businesses. I want to support businesses that are in compliance that are not disturbing our residents. So, I'm seeking a solution here and hopefully this is going to address it. Uh because we do need to make sure that this gets buttoned up so that we don't have this issue again going into it this summer. I mean, there's obviously we're running out of options and there's just a few left here on the table. So, Director Vunich, the um you address the the um

fencing material that goes behind the stage. The the reflection, is that also included in this report? Yes, sir. Okay. And also, um let me see what else the sound curtains because we did a really good job when we had another proposal before us and that's why we never went through this proposal with Wildwood Public Grill. So, this was why when we did this with Good News Brewery, I have not gotten a single complaint. And that's actually even closer then. And uh you could tell because there were nights they weren't even they didn't even have anything going on there with music. You could just stand outside and you hear the direction of the music. So, with Good News Brewery, we addressed an issue there with sound currents.

Yes. Is that also included in this report recommendation?

Yes. There's four components, Mr. Mayor. There's the the principal one is the board fence, a solid fence that will encapsulate the backside and northwest side of the 10x10 tent. The second is landscaping on the east side of the tent where we're transitioning from the board fence to the concrete retaining wall which is the most effective tool. Third is the noise curt as a component of the 10x10 tent. And then finally the acoustic panels on the certain portions of the building and wall itself.

Where is that in the report? Director. I was just trying to make sure

it is on page five item two. Just real briefly. It's the installation of board fencing and landscaping will mitigate sound. Also in regards to sound abatement, the department does believe at least one side of the tent should be fitted with sound curtain to what eliminate what is termed as flutter echo. The northwest side of the performance tent would be need to be fitted. In addition, given the areas below grade encompassed by hard surface that sound that can redirect sound, the strategic location of limit number of sound attenuation panels on certain columns of the building and portions of the retaining wall near the dining area need to be considered as well. With the complement of these steps, the department is confident that the concerns of the neighbors relative to noise can be adequately addressed.

Okay. Well, uh, let me see if there's any other comments from the commission here. Um, Councilman Marshall, um, I was just curious because I thought that Good News Brewery had to be all acoustical, no amplifiers. That's probably a big difference between these two.

Yes. The difference here is over time, obviously, Pub and Grill has been a longstanding business and restaurant component of the city of Wildwood and this town center. At the time that all of this kind of occurred with initial resoning occurring in 2004 there there just didn't seem to be the issues and as development has occurred and we've approved projects there are more people in the vicinity. Good News Brewing Company was a fresh start, so to speak, and we addressed it because we wanted to ensure that we could provide um appropriate sound mitigation and many of those tools, except for example, ours relative to the performance of music and acoustic versus um amplified. We're not amending the ordinance. I didn't have the authority to do that. Um, but every other step that I thought appropriate and discussed with Mayor Geritano and others are included as part of the recommendation.

Thank you. Commissioner Rubis,

is there a time limit on the when the music has to stop at while and how does that compare to Good Newsbury? Again, this ordinance has been amended but not I believe since 201 12. So there is no limitation on operation or performance of music. uh other than obviously liquor stales I think it's 1:30 in the even at night they've closed the bar but there is no again remember this is a 22year-old development versus good news brewing which is within the last year or so

is that an option for the city to limit the uh hours of the music

certainly the governing ordinance the CA plan commercial district can be amended. But in this particular instance, we have a site plan submitt that didn't prompt the need because there's nothing non-compliant per se because we have a noise code and noise code doesn't really address what I would consider intermittent sounds. It's the it's the it's a sound that is ongoing for an hour or more without interruption. And so it's very different. Our noise code is not necessarily tailored toward car accelerating with mufflers that make noise, nor the playing of music where a song is played and there's a break, there's a song, there's a break, and then there's a a set that ends and one that starts 20 minutes later. We don't have those tools other than the police responding to a peace disturbance. Commissioner Halffrey.

So I have two questions and I'm going to ask my second one first and that is so am I am I understanding that the the noise code is sightsp specific? Is that what I'm understanding?

Well, in certain instances we're making it sight specific to address outdoor performance and music, but generally speaking the noise code is applicable to every property in Wildlers. Well, because I guess I I'm confused because I know that I've heard in the past that we've had to deal with issues with Big Chief and their music, and now we're talking about Good News Brewery, a brewing company, and how we've we've adequately dealt with theirs. And then I thought that I and I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. I thought that you just said that that Wildwood Pub can play their music till whenever.

Well, I know they don't. I think it's either 9:00 or 10:00 on Friday and Saturdays. But again, contextwise here, Big Chief Roadhouse began playing music without any authorization. No site plan approval, nothing in the ordinance. In fact, spoke to all activities need to be inside the building, not outside. So that was a violation which led us to work with the owner of the restaurant and amend the ordinance to address it to the hopefully satisfaction of the surrounding residents. And there there are residents right next door. They're on adjoining properties. Good News Brewing Company was a fresh start, a new business in an old um the West County feed and grain. And so we were able to address it as part of the development of that ordinance. Here in this instance, as I say, each instance where outdoor seating was provided, there were site plan approvals. The addition of the music came for all intent from the perspective of the department. It may be earlier, but through the during the pandemic and under the emergency orders, we were doing a lot of those things just to ensure the businesses could stay viable during what was a very unusual time.

Thank you. Uh, my next question is might just be ridiculous, but I'm just curious if they play at a different angle like have they have have you talked to them about, you know, the music facing or amplifiers facing a different direction because you said that the brick the sound bounces off of the brick and I know that the wall kind of going down isn't that stone as well. So if they if they the band plays with their sound amplified a different direction, does that have any bearing on the sound?

Well, the band is directing the music toward the southwest. So toward the building itself, not out away from the building. And that's the reflective nature of sound. That's why we're trying to address it with the acoustic panels at strategic locations. Um, I guess what I would say is obviously if they chose they could use less speakers which generate less sound. That's an option that was described in some of the research the department conducted on this particular matter. So I think there's multiple ways. What the department is proposing here are the key considerations. those that you see in almost all discussions about trying to address sound and the impact it has offsite. And so from the perspective of the department, it feels that if we do these four, we're we're a long way there toward addressing the concerns that have been expressed by residents to our city administrator and to the mayor.

Okay. I I just asked because when we did all of that sound stuff, one of the things that you guys had taught us was that sound goes until it hits something, then it goes up and over. And so if it was hitting those buildings and then reverberating back and going over. So maybe in the future if that doesn't work, what we're doing now, maybe they can turn the van. But I I don't know if there's a motion to approve that your recommendation, but I'll make it if there isn't one. Well, just to the the board fence is 8t in height. The landscaping is to be six to eight feet in height and the acoustic panels and the sound curtain are the safety measures we feel that are are important enough to apply.

Yeah, because Thank you, Mr. V. Um, Commissioner Bourne, I'll come to you in one second, but if they flipped it around, then they would be aiming directly at the subdivisions. No, I meant well, go ahead. or any other way. There's there's walls on three sides there. So, I think you're either going to face it directly or reflect off something. But, Commissioner Borne,

yeah, a couple of my questions have already been answered, but uh Mr. Funich, I applaud you for trying to work with Wildwood Pub in allowing them to have outdoor music. I think it's important for these businesses in Wildwood to have that option. Um, and I think what you propose is are all great ideas. Uh, the 10:00 cut off makes a lot of sense to me. I would think that people prior to 10:00, if the noise is somewhat controlled by these mitigating things you put in place, should be reasonable. Um, I would also argue that a band with percussions, especially drums, that sound's going to carry a whole lot farther than a one, two, or three person, you know, small, you know, stringbased and vocal band is going to carry. U, you know, so I know we don't have any control over that, but you making recommendations to Wildwood Pub to maybe try to limit full bands with percussions is is maybe one thing they might want to consider. Thank you, Mr. Bourne. And um the manager of Wildwood Pub and Grill is here tonight, so I'm sure she heard what you just said.

I do have a question for city administrator Lee. What um suggestions or what kind of discussions did you uh have or communications in the past? Like I just want to make sure that we're not trying something that's already been tried before so that these resident calls complaints fully stop with whatever way with Wildwood Pub specifically. Mayor. Yes.

Yeah. So this what they're proposing now with this fence and one of the big components that had me um feeling a little bit better is that it's 8 ft and that it has it's it's a panel. It doesn't have a gap in between. you know, if there was like a just a normal fence, the sound would travel through it. Um, that said, beforehand there wasn't any mi mitigating factor. So, I think now, um, when the sound is being pushed back up against the wall, it's it's kind of going to be reverberating inside and then pushing back towards the community college is the thought. I think the the addition of this fence, as Mr. Vunich has described tonight. Um along with the landscaping buffer as well and those sound panels if needed. I think that is a a really big jump in the right direction, but I actually do want to um piggyback off Commissioner Boron's comment that if there's a way to we can't control this, but if there's a way to limit the percussion uh from the resident complaints that have come in, it does seem to be when it align with the percussions introduced. So, just as a possible item that we could talk as a sidebar, but the the main thing is I think with what is being presented tonight, um I think that will go a long way in controlling the sound as long as it's, you know, kept at the similar levels that it's at today.

So, what what kind of conditions were uh put in place for Good News Brewery as far as hours go and um you know, maybe type of music. I wonder maybe in the spirit of being fair, maybe we need to look at doing the same. So that this way, you know, if we're kind of defeating ourselves, if we're allowing a certain business to play music, let's say, until uh 9:00 and then another one goes till 10:00, then you know, you still have the noise. And I believe I don't think it's an issue for Wildwood Pub and Grill after 9 because I know that a lot of times calls would come in around 8:30 to 9:00 and then usually if police were running late because they were handling something more serious and let's say they got there right at 9:00, the music would be over by the time they got there at 9. So the complaints were coming in before that. Um what So back to my question, what what are the conditions? Maybe we can kind of do an alignment like that. Uh, Mr. Brunish, I think you could I think we actually we limited them to just acoustic on that um on that stage that they have there. That's one. Um, and I think they are not permitted any music on Sunday. I think it's Friday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, but correct me if I'm wrong there, Mr. Bonish, but I don't think they are able to go too late. I think it was a cut off time at 8:00 if I remember correctly. Um, first and foremost, Good News Brewing Company isn't open on Monday or Tuesdays. So, we're talking about a five day a week business. And then they provided to us their scenario for live performances in the band shell. And it was just a few days of those five days. We did limit hours of operation and we made it acoustic only.

I'm trying to pull up. Yep. Trying to I can pull them up together too. One second. Are we just doing the mo is the mot is the motion on the floor just for the the site plan? Is that what we're doing right now? Yes.

Okay. And again, unless I'm in air, if there would have been a component of the design that was incompatible or in violation of the governing ordinance, that would have prompted a different approach. Here in this particular case, there wasn't under the determination of the department. So, it's just a plan. Typically, we don't amend ordinances without the permission of the owner or operator of the business or property. So, unless I'm mistaken, and we can certainly check with John Young tomorrow, um I think I'm following standard practice as set forth in our zoning ordinance.

All right, Commissioner Rubis. So if we recommend this approach, all four items will be accomplished. That is the intent, sir. Because I I think city administrator said about the panels, if needed, and the only way we could tell if they would be needed is to get more noise complaints after. So we vote for this. We get the fence, the panels, the landscaping and all four items.

All four items are intended. The only caveat in the report is I just don't know how many acoustic panels are appropriate. There are certain areas I think they would be most effective, but it may be a bit of trial and error as you mentioned. Certainly, we don't want to add panels that aren't necessary or in positions that do that do not serve a purpose. So, I think that we know that there are components of the building and the columns associated with the building that are reflective or and then I think there are portions of the wall. But I kind of like to start conservatively and see if those work and we'll know almost immediately. If not, then we can move on to the second stage if necessary.

Commissioner Borne.

Yeah, just thinking through it, I I'm in support of what Mr. Grinch is saying. I think what he's proposing makes a lot of sense. Put it out there. Let's see what happens. Um, you know, point and counterpoint here, though. you understand that there are always going to be a certain percent of the population that will complain no matter how many mitigating things are put in place, no matter how low the volume of the music is, they will not be happy. Um, at the same time, you know, I think if a reasonable person says if it's limited to, you know, certain nights of the week, especially weekend nights, and the cut off is no later than 10 p.m., then that serves the general public who wants to listen to music on a Friday or Saturday evening. cutting it off at 8:00 really doesn't do the business any good. And and me as a resident, it doesn't do me any good. I would if I'm going to go listen to music, it's not going to be at at 6:30, you know, it's going to be probably between 8 and 10, you know. So, I think we need to keep that in mind for the viability of the business and and for those people who do enjoy listening to music at at these venues. Um, you know, the next step I think for probably not this commission, but maybe for city council is, you know, if this doesn't work, it's limiting things like percussions. It's limiting things like the volume that's coming out of those amplifiers because I we've all been in bars and and music venues where you can't even speak to someone sitting right next to you because it's so loud. A lot of bands think that they're great when their music is loud. you know, that's not the case. I would prefer

I would prefer to have something of moderate volume, and I think that could be managed by the manager of the establishment.

So, here's the requirements from Good News Brewing Company. The performance of music and the offering of outdoor games shall end no later than 900 p.m. and cannot start before 6 pm except on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. For outdoor games and performances can begin at 2:00 p.m. Music shall be limited to Wednesday through Sunday. Sunday music performances shall be limited to the hours of 2:00 p.m. to 4 p.m. The performance of a music must be acoustic and not amplified. If amplified music is scheduled, the size of the performance group shall not exceed two musicians/s singer.

Oh, so there is a provision for amplification. Just got to keep it to a small band. That was added at the very end of the process per the request of the owner of the business. But we we recognized that we took the necessary steps in the design of the stage to ensure music didn't go norththeast or south but to the southwest and we limited the size which makes sense given the size of the stage area. It's not a very big stage as is a 10 by1010. Yeah.

Was that when it was in front of city council that that was added? I believe it was added here at the planning and zoning commission. I would have to check though. I'm just not sure because I don't remember that part of it, but maybe maybe my memor is getting bad or maybe I missed that meeting. Um, but I think we still need a Commissioner Healthfree supported the made the motion, but I think we do need a second still. I'll give it a second.

Second by Commissioner Clayton. So, all right, we're good now. So, so my question then is do we need to make sure that things like the hours because I've heard 10 o'clock and I'm pretty certain you guys do not play music past 9 cuz usually we know when the police would show up after 9 the music would stop. So yeah, go ahead. You can answer that please. Okay. The problem is is that, you know, people call and have kids that are trying to get them to sleep and they're like, look, we're sitting in bed and it's 8:45 and we hear music coming from outside from Wildwood Public Grill. That's what I would get calls about. And I think that's why there is something that that sound seems to be traveling. And that's why I'm glad that we're looking at defensing material and trying to find a way to stop that music from reflecting um so that you can still have your music, but it's not inconveniencing the folks that are kind of right across. I I've been to that site there um down by the fire station and I've actually even recorded the music on my phone from there. So, it is traveling. And it is loud. Uh and like I said, you know, my goal would be is that we don't get the complaints that they stop because

otherwise we have a problem still and it continues to carry on and you know, don't want to go through this process again. I'd like to see if we get it fixed the first time. Uh so that this way, you know, you have certainty with what's going on and and that's it. Um yeah. Do you want to come on up to the microphone or ju it's just so that we can hear you in here fine but they can't hear you on Zoom.

Yes. Several meetings we've had to where again we keep calling it a fence but I mean it's a whole the screen like we ordered this material two months ago hoping that all this would be approved. Like it's not just some backyard fence. I mean it's a whole screen plus like said the tent we're putting the back walls on everything. I mean, I think we're really doing everything to help show that we're we don't want the noise violations either. You know, we don't want the police showing up every Friday night. I mean, that's not what we're trying to deal with on a Friday night. I'd be spending my time in the kitchen and with customers. So, I mean, I really think that we're trying to do everything. And then if one of my bands is getting the complaints or the police do come that evening, I'm addressing that band directly and I'm not going to rebook them if they are playing over the volume because if it's too loud for my customers on the patio, they're leaving also.

So we're having a a dinner ambiance, not some, you know, rock and roll party out there. So that's kind of where we're at right now to where we're we're here for the community. I think the community likes us and supports us and we don't want the calls every weekend either. All right. Thank Thank you. I appreciate that.

Anything else, Mayor Gar? Yeah.

Director Vunage, do you have what you need or do we need to be um do we need to include that any of those specific details that we talked about? Yeah. How would the city best work through this? Well, the department has identified four um what I would consider proven methods to abate sound. Um as I mentioned, the department didn't feel that anything that was identified on the section plan was in violation of the current code. So did not go back to Wildwood Public and Grill and say we need to amend the ordinance to accommodate what you're showing on the amended section plan. I think at this stage and we've tried this before creating a general ordinance for the outdoor performance of music or the playing of music whether it be through speakers or live bands. Um, ultimately the planning and parks committee said no, they saw that as a disincentive. That's something we probably should revisit. Now, if there's concerns that we're not being we're not treating each entity equally, then I guess there is an approach where we could. I would argue that if one person complains, are we ultimately going to shut down a viable business? Viable business that's been part of the community now for 22 years. I think that's the measure that city council needs to take. And I'm sorry it's it's it's not necessarily what you may want to hear as the commission, but I deal with residents all day. Some of their requests are just unreasonable. I can't address them. There's no law that

says I I can. They don't like their neighbor. Well, I don't know what to do about that. I don't know if it's because of their authenticity, their color, or etc. They're not breaking the law. In this instance, they are. They're creating a sound disturbance. We're trying to take the adequate steps to address it. But I know I know as I stand here before you tonight, someone will complain because that's just the nature of many of our residents out here. All right. Um let me comm or Mr. Lee.

Yeah, I was just going to add um and there are instances I I can attest with Joe that you know we will probably most likely still get complaints, but that is a decision the council had to make. I did want to point out though, uh, I got a text here from council member, uh, a council member that was wishing to speak, council member Alers, and it's obviously at the chair's discretion whether or not to let an individual speak, but I just wanted to make sure that was was noted to get his message across. Um, yeah, he he is council member for that word, so I'll Yeah, if is that him with his hand raised? Yeah, as an as an attendee. Yeah, Mr. Chair.

Okay. Mr. Alberts, if you'd like to speak, you'll need to accept the the prompt to become a panelist, please. And thank you. Here he is. Go ahead and unmute yourself and then the floor is yours.

Okay. Sorry to interrupt, but uh like Mayor Geritano has stated, I you know, I would deal with that a little bit here, but I I just kind of wanted to clarify kind of some of the stuff I've heard here. I always thought up at uh uh the Wildwood Pub that it was a 1000 p.m. cut off. And if I'm home on a Friday night, you know, I I can hear it. It's it's not bothering me. But, you know, 10 o'clock sometimes becomes 10:15, 10:30. And I think that drives a lot of these problems with residents also. And, you know, I'd like to be able to say we have a hard 10:00 cut off if that's what it was supposed to be. And I thought that's what it was. Um, and uh, as some of the other people said, um, that's maybe a it's like it's almost like the bewitching hour. If if it goes past 10 p.m., then I think more people become more upset about it. So, I'd like to see a hard cut off at 10:00 in forest. And I and I can tell people that. And there's, you know, there's a couple that just have to live with it, you know. And uh and uh um and as far as um good news, I thought theirs was at 10:00 also, but they've only really decided to play on Friday nights, you know, for most of last season, too. So that's my input. whatever it's worth to you guys. So,

thank you. Appreciate it. Commissioner Hry, uh, one of the reasons that I made the motion to approve the the department's recommendation is because in in the years that I've been on planning and zoning, we've had a lot of experiences with sound. And I the the most notable one for me was Hidden Valley where it was this place was packed. We had sound uh study after sound study done and um they the city's opinion was let us let us try and then if it doesn't work we can come back and fix it and I think to my knowledge there hasn't been a problem with those zip lines since they went in and so

once what my suggestion but there was no complaint so what the that's the reason I made the motion I think that we ought to give them the opportunity to see if we can remedy it and then if not then we can come back and we have something and I I recognize that you get a lot of complaints but as somebody who's lived in Wildwood for 30 years I will tell you I hear Marquette I hear Lafayette I hear I hear a lot of things and I just hope we've got to give them a chance to fix it before we start

well I think that with the department's recommendations we can move forward as long as there's an opportunity if it's not addressed that we can then come back here and see what we need to do because all I mean again I've looked at all tools that are available to me and some are not pleasant um but we uh we just need to make sure and and so even like with the 10:00 um and and again I don't know because I got a lot of those complaints and would actually even come over uh if police were being called to see if this noise was really in fact happening or not. Um, you can ask my wife because she she'd be at home like you got another call again. So, uh, I would say we look at these changes. If they work as intended, they're going to absorb the sound and deflect it, then we don't have a problem. But if obviously they're not effective then we have to come back here and look at what is available to us because I think the best scenario is you guys can do you know your business there um and the calls also the complaint stop coming here you know I don't want to feel like we have a concert venue that just happens to serve food and drinks right you're not a concert venue you're a restaurant so you happen to have music there but the issues you know the calls it seem it feels like it's like we have a concert venue that is is happening so um the department has put together these recommendations let's see how they work and if not then we will be back here to see what else we could do what I would ask is if the city is going to contact you if we do get calls please take those serious you know do not because that's the biggest thing it was like you So, I would report back to these residents. The city had a

conversation and then a weekend or two later, boom, we're back at it again. So, what's their reaction? They're like, "Well, you guys obviously aren't doing anything." And I'm like, "City administrator Lee sent an email." I know there were many times he told me that. He sent an email to you and several others. So, let's see if we can get this addressed. All right. Anything else? All right, roll call vote. Commissioner Borne, yes. Commissioner Hoffrey, yes. Commissioner Clayton, yes. Commissioner Deppler, yes. Commissioner Rubis,

yes. Chair Batty, yes. Council member Marshall, yes. Mayor Gano, yes.

Thank you. All right. Motion carries. Thank you guys. Appreciate it. All right. Um, Historic Preservation Commission, Mr. Vunich. Mr. Chair, members of the Planning and Zoning Commission, over the course of the last year, the first three plus months of this year, 2026, Historic Preservation Commission has been working with a property owner regarding a historic asset known as the JP Connell House. It is one of 12 or so assets in the city that would be eligible for the Department of Interior National Park Service designation as a property worthy of the historic National Historic Register. Unfortunately, it's been um neglected and not maintained and the new owner is trying to reverse that trend. That new owner is seeking a large number of incentives under the historic land use category of the master plan. The department has prepared recommendations to the historic preservation commission res regarding the incentive package and they've asked for a joint session with the planning and zoning commission to gain your all's expertise. So tonight the department is proposing a work session either on Monday or Tuesday, April 27th or 28th. I know that some of you may not have your calendars here, but I wanted to give you an explanation why the Historic Preservation Commission is requesting the joint session because it involves an important historic asset, the master plan and zoning incentives. So, the department will send you an email tomorrow with the dates and potential times and if you could respond, it'd be much appreciated.

There any questions or comments? The department would be glad to answer them. All right. Thank you. Personally, I would prefer Monday because it's the same night as this, but Okay. That's just me. Rubis

is did uh St. Albin Property sell that this to another owner? Yes, St. Alvin's Properties sold it to uh Christine and Terry Gruie. Um the Grruities are commercial developers. The project they're most known for is Gravo Bluffs, that large commercial center in the Fenton area. And um as I say initially it was the thought was is we we we may have found the solution but the incentive package is difficult and so that's why the historic preservation commission is seeking your your input. Is

is this the grooies that live out west or north? I mean yes. Okay. So, we'll get back in contact with you and we'll do our best to schedule it if it doesn't work out. Certainly, we understand everybody has busy schedules. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Greenwich and Commissioner Helffrey. Motion to adjurnn. Any discussion? All those in favor say I. I. I. Any opposed? Any abstain? All right, we're journed. That was a marathon one. Mr.