Planning and Parks Committee - Regular Meeting

You just follow them. I was just watching what I was paying.

Being recorded and we are live on.

Okay, we'll go ahead and get started. Thanks everyone for coming. This is the City of Wildwoods Planning and Parks Committee meeting for Tuesday, June 16th. Go ahead and do roll call.

Chair Hrabowski?

Here.

Council Member Trottier? Here. Council Member Nyan? Here. Council Member Farmer? Here. Council Member Marshall? Present. Council Member Rambo? Here. Council Member VanEck? Council Member Kummer? Here. And we have a quorum.

Thank you. Okay, can we have approval of the minutes for Tuesday, May 19th?

So moved.

Okay, second. Mr. Farmer, any other comments? Okay, all in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed or abstain? Okay, thank you. I'm going to say approved. Okay, at this point, we come to our public comment section and we welcome those who attend who have an interest in sharing information with us. This is the time that we allow speakers. We just ask that you keep your comments to five minutes or less. And looks like we have a few folks in the room. Are you interested in making public comment? Okay. Okay. Do we have anybody online that's interested in making public comment? You do raise your hand. It doesn't look like it. Okay. Then we'll go ahead and start with the action items for tonight. First, planning matters. It looks like we have public sanitary sewer extension to historic pond area, Wildwood, Ward 1. Mr. Voonish, I think that's you.

Yes, ma'am, and thank you. Before the department begins its presentation on this particular item, I'd like to thank you all as well for attending tonight. Melanie and I certainly appreciate it. do have fresh coffee and water in the refrigerator that's filled if you suffered over what's been placed in your chair. So thanks again for being here and to Melanie and Officer Fielding. Thanks for doing all the support work. Thanks to meeting work so well. So thank you. Will the department prepare for your consideration tonight of memorandum relating to public sanitary sewer extension the pond historic area. For some, this won't sound new. As the memorandum identifies, in 2018, the city actually invested time, resources, and funds in looking into the extension of public sanitary sewer in the pond historic area. Ultimately, that extension was not successful. And principally, the reason why was that residents, property owners in the area, did not support either a community improvement district or a neighborhood improvement district to fund the improvements. That, along with just escalating costs at that time, led to the project being dropped by the city. Saying all of that, obviously there was a need for public sanitary sewer service in the area. The need isn't necessarily the Wildwood Middle School Living Word Church. They have more recent sand filter systems that are permitted under the Missouri Department of Natural Resources and have inspection schedules that at least ensure a minimum of maintenance and . However, Maple Avenue, Walden Avenue, those homes that are occupied are septic systems. Many of the systems are non-functional or have limited functionality. The reason I say that is because of two major factors. The size of the lots, many of them are around 20,000 square feet or less. Secondly, it's a perched or high water table. And then thirdly, the soils don't accommodate it very well. So in many instances, there are failures or there is just direct discharge of untreated wastewater to the surface. That's a public health problem. and safety concern for the city. We address it on a case-by-case basis. We've had individual property owners install new systems. Typically, they may work for a little bit of time, but ultimately, they don't work permanently. And we're back with them trying to figure out solutions. Two instances, there's a restaurant in the area that has an old mechanical system that I was told had a catastrophic failure recently. They were able to repair it. For a while there, it was touch and go. And then Wildwood Motors, formerly Pond Motors, they're on a pump and haul. They have no space for any type of treatment site, given that much of the property is asphalt for the staging of vehicles for sale. So the situation is a mixed bag, but there is a public health and safety concern. Why it is before the committee tonight is based upon a conversation with Tracy and Robert Kelly. They are the owners of the land where Wildwood Motors is located. They also own several of the residential lots on Maple and Walnut Avenues. they are wanting to develop those lots with new residences. And they're talking about affordability in terms of those residences. But they know that the opportunity is limited without some type of solution to wastewater treatment. What the department advised them is that it would be glad to at least present it to this committee and get a feel, a temperature, gauge the interest, The city would not necessarily be starting from square one. We have a lot of the information. That information would just need to be updated. But we did at the time in 2018 have a commitment from the Metropolitan St. Louis Sir District to serve the area. We had two alternative plans. One was an eight-foot barrier. The other was a 12-foot barrier, meaning that The 12-foot barrier of the sewer lines allows for a minimum of 2% slope so that gravity works. The 8-foot barrier was basically a 1% slope, which is an optional, optimal, optimal. But the MSD accepted it given the cost components. So we would have to update those to understand the cost. I will probably tell you, it's going to probably be double given the way everything has gone. with inflation and construction costs. That's my thought. So tonight, we have an interested set of property owners that own a number of lots in the area of Hunt Historic District. We know that the Living Word Church and all the Rockwood School District would prefer to be on public sewer. Their systems are big, they're expensive to maintain. We have houses of worship and businesses that would benefit from public sanitary sewer as well. The question before the committee tonight, Gareth J. Is do you want to take the next step and at least start looking at this msd still was msd still honor their commitment. Gareth J. And we go back to the engineering company and update those costs if msd as well, we know its commitment and then come back and basically give you an update here's what we're talking about. Gareth J. msd is a yes or no and then. The next step would be gauging the interest of the residents for property owners in the area. Because as it's explained in the memorandum, MSD will not fund it. The city should not fund it. And for the most part, the state of Missouri has low interest grant, or excuse me, low interest, but it's usually for existing utilities or municipalities that provide the service. neither of which, again, we meet. So do we take the next step and see if it's feasible to even consider it, or do we just stop tonight?

Mr. Farmer?

So, I mean, outside of, I guess, getting updated numbers from the engineers, what does the city do to reach out to these property owners to see if they're interested? Just send them a letter or something?

That's what we did, Mr. Farmer, in 2018. It was really a joint team effort. Julia Jacqueline, who had been the liaison from the city on what we call the Manchester Road Corridor Group. Ryan Thomas, who is our administrator. Rick Brown and I, we basically worked together and we sent out information to the property owners and asked them to attend an open house. We got it while in middle school. We got a very good turnout. but we also didn't get a majority of the property owners turnout. And then we also got a very negative response from the property owners at the open house.

How many properties do the people that are directly asking for this own?

There is a list of properties. Unfortunately, it's not numbered, but generally speaking, It's like there's about 92 total acres, which probably is about 60 properties or so.

How many would they represent? Pardon? How many of those 60 would the people that are asking, showing interest in it?

Well, this is the old list, so I didn't take the time, because again, just asking if we should. They're not on the list. I think, well, they may be on proponents,

On top. Pond Elementary is on sewer, right?

Yes. They were part of the first original neighborhood improvement district.

So when we, when I'm just trying to think through the time. So when you guys went out and talked about this before that, the connection to the sewer line, which I'm assuming would be somewhere around under the, whatever the new houses are. Was all that infrastructure there when we got the prices the first time or no? Yes. Okay.

Pond Elementary was on sewer, so that was the start point, and it would head west along Manchester Road. The accommodation the city was going to make is obviously administer the neighborhood improvement district if there was support, but also we were going to let the MSD used the right-of-way for the sewer installation in lieu of trying to garner easements along Manchester Road from other property owners than elsewhere.

I don't want to cut anybody off, but I guess I would suggest there's no harm in asking people if it's something that they want. I know the big chief has struggled with that. I talk to the people over at Kids Go to I mean, I don't think there's any harm in asking. I would suggest whatever we look at doing, I think you mentioned an 8-foot or a 12-foot. I would, almost regardless of the price, I think we need to make sure that it's done right so that we're not having to look back at this and figure out something if it goes through. And I think there's... probably a number of people back in that area that are just not going to be real interested in this. And then, so I don't know. I mean, what does it take to do that? Do you need a majority of people? Do you need all of them? Do you need it? 61%.

As I recall, and that's in the memorandum, and I apologize, I shouldn't.

Because that other, I can't remember the name of it, but there's that white house that's like across from the Mantle Shop or whatever it is. My understanding is that restaurant. The sewer there, which I don't know if it's the sewer. I don't think it's the sewer. I think it's like.

the dishwater fills that yard up before they get hit. Right. So, I mean, I think, you know, you had suds across everything.

That must be an old system. So, I mean, I would imagine whoever owns that would probably be interested in it because I don't know that much can be done at that place until that is sold.

Well, there's an interesting story. A young lady and her husband, who was a doctor, purchased the pond in And we're going to reopen it as a restaurant. They took the initiative and along with Jerry Stricker and Scott Keller were able to annex three of the properties at the intersection there into the district. That's why there's that kind of little blue island right at the intersection. So they were about to move forward with that. And the young lady and her husband divorced. He was not financing the project any longer and it stalled. So that's when we kind of stepped in as well. So it's two-thirds... of the owners of record of all real property located within the area of the proposed boundary. So 66, at least 66%.

And those folks that is my turn. Okay. And those folks that own multiple properties, their vote counts once for each property. Yes. So I had a couple of observations. First, I agree with Joe. if you're going to do it, do it right. And gravity feed, obviously, that's the only way to go. But judging from your estimate that the cost would double, we're talking about a $5 million project, right? Something like that. Yeah. I mean, that's a lot of money. But my question really is, If there are people, and I can see it happening because it happens like at the Ozarks. It happens everywhere there are older homes with older systems. It's not my problem. It's running on the neighbor's yard, right? I mean, really. And people are dumping literally raw sewage into estuaries, into other people's yards and all that kind of thing. And just because there's no odor doesn't mean there's not a health, serious health concern. My question to you is the city, is truly anemic when it comes to having any sort of recourse to take against people for all sorts of violations because of the state statute that limits fines to like $200 every six months. Well, people would rather do that than spend $20,000 on a septic system. And so my question to you is, Is there any way under the auspices of public health to take a stronger action than just, okay, we're going to spend a year or two sending you letters every so often and you're not going to respond and then we can find you 200 bucks and then you're done with the hassle for another year kind of thing.

Well, certainly I... I don't want to criticize municipal court. They are bound by the state.

I understand completely. I'm suggesting that public health should trump some of that.

There are some tools available in the midst of municipal court that we haven't yet exercised, and that's at the discretion of the prosecuting attorney as a recommendation to the municipal judge. What we're doing now, and this has just come about within the last probably six to eight weeks, St. Louis County through the County Police Department has a problem properties unit, and we're actually starting to utilize them. They seem to have a little more authority

And they're going to roll up, a cop rolls up with a badge and people take that more seriously.

And their cases bypass our municipal court and go to either the accounting court or the associate or circuit court. We've got two problem properties, the Nellie House off of Alton Road that continues to be just a nuisance to the residents in that area. And then some of you may not know, we've been maintaining a farmer skilled care facility on Sherrick Lane off of Ridge Road because it's just, it's a nuisance and the kids are in it all the time. And so we've got problem properties with county now working on those to see if we actually can Take the steps to basically either secure them or remove them.

And dumping raw sewage would fall under that.

Yes. We're starting to. We have the authority under our nuisance code to vacate property, meaning we can ask the residents to leave. It really hasn't been the stomach for it.

But this is serious business.

Yeah. We've come to past councils years ago and basically said, here's the situation. We want to vacate. And the direction was, is work with them.

Yeah. I mean, we want to be nice. Everybody wants to be nice, but criminally. You can work with them, but only to a point.

I'm just saying that was the past direction. I'm not saying that's the current or what may be the future. We have that home on St. Albert's Road, Highway T. where we've been working for a year to address the septic system that's failed. We've written a number of summonses, the municipal court, they've been dismissed. So, We just keep writing summonses. We'll keep doing it until we find success.

Well, in the world, they get dismissed.

I mean, property rights only go so far. The property owner keeps saying we're just a month away from fixing it.

Oh, yeah, right. Sure, sure, sure, sure.

Yeah. So I guess getting back, there are mechanisms, there are tools to solve untreated sewage and floods. being discharged into the environment. Those tools require sometimes harsh actions that could be considered by our residents. And then there's always the publicity associated with them. So we do our best to work through it and try to find solutions. The best solution is public sanitary sewer in undersized lots, poor soil conditions, perched water tables, low to moderate income areas. So that's what the department is seeking, just direction tonight. Do we take the next step and say, okay, how much does it really cost now? Is MSD still willing to extend that boundary that they agreed to years ago? And if those two things come back and at least seem reasonable, then I would say the next step is, Let's ask the property owner. Because they're going to have to have something in the game, so to speak.

So it sounded like you went, from what I was hearing, MSD is a yes or a no. And then the second piece would be residents, yes or no. Are you winning?

Let's see how much it costs first. Because if it's really, if it's a $10 million project on 90 lots, that's not good. I think I know the answer.

Well, you had 2.5 mil for the 12-foot berry, which is what we want. If you double that, that's 5 mil. And if you calculate it out, that's like, what, 55 grand per lot times 90. And if you amortize that over 20 years, or maybe even if there's a 30-year note possibility or something like that, people are paying a couple grand a year Um, or that service and sewage service. I mean, you know, the sewer, I don't know what it costs in town, but does, do you guys pay sewer? Because I used to pay it. Yeah, it's not, it's negligible, but I mean, it's still not, it's, is it like what? 50 bucks a month or something like that? 16, 16, 16, 16.

So it'd be 25, 27. It was when I moved eight years ago was 35 and then it's doubled. Okay.

So it'd be a few, it'd be a couple of times more or several times more than that, but they don't have to pay for a $30,000 septic system that they can't fit on their lot. So, okay. All right. Okay. So it's feasible.

I vote we do it. I mean, I, You're going to make a motion, Joe? Yeah, so I mean, I was going to make the motion to talk to MSD, figure out the general costs, and then we can divide that up and figure out what that is. But I would also, maybe separately, I don't probably need to be with this, but I do think it would be worthwhile for us as a city to try to set up a very clear line of demarcation where We have worked, like this is a real public safety issue. We've worked to do this. And whether that means that, you know, we have to have a different level of intervention from the police or whatever it is. I mean, you know, we've talked about this with some other properties over in Ward 3 where, you know, very quickly there's going to be a number of, a lot of properties that are close enough to these sewer lines where they're going to have to pay a really substantial amount of money to connect to them. So I think as a city, we need to try to get as in front of that problem as we can, because it is going to be a real rude awakening for a whole lot of people.

Can you provide a summary information on that, the problem properties, task force unit, whatever the heck you called it?

It would be handy to know that. I just think in general, I just think For you guys, because I know that you're pulled in and, you know, the code enforcement guys do the best that they can, but like they're just, I think if you just had a process to be like, look, we've hit this point where this is beyond our means now, this is going to go, we're just, it goes to the problem properties folks and let them handle it.

There is a nominal cost to that. HAB-Jacques Juilland, I think the cost as well worth.

HAB-Jacques Juilland, Well, if you figure out, though, how much time it takes you. HAB-Jacques Juilland, Everybody else to go out and do it. It's not, it's going to cost us less money to do that. And it is HAB-Masyn Moyer, So, HAB-Masyn Moyer, We made the motion.

to talk to MSD about the cost. Do you want to add the second piece?

Yeah, so the cost. So talk to MSD on whether they're going to do it. Yes. Whether they're still willing to do it. Yes or no. Let's talk to the engineers about the general cost. I think at the 12 foot deep level. And then, I mean, I would just suggest come back If they say yes and we have a number, then we can real quickly go, okay, well, it's going to be, you know, whatever it is per property. And then, you know, there's nothing wrong with asking or, you know, putting a little sign out there with a QR code that takes them to something that explains what's going on. Because I think it's also important for people to understand that. you know, how many parcels there are, how many of those parcel owners need to get signed on, and then the inevitable conclusion of, you know, people that don't sign on, then what happens and how that all works. Like, I just want to lay that all out.

So I was buying a car, this is decades ago, and it's the guy in the cubicle next to me. I heard him say, thankfully, I still chuckle about it. He said, you know, I don't care how much it costs. I want to know how much a month it is. And so we need to tell folks it's going to cost you this much per month or whatever, because these are working class people and they don't have a lot of money. But if it's reasonable and it saves them from trying to finance a $30,000 system, it might go over or it might be more powerful. So that's just worth it.

Do you have a second to the motion?

This is a discussion. I'm happy to second, but I have some questions. So in the records you have from 2018, do we know the people that were no's? Do we know the people that were yes's from the individual residents?

I'll have to check the file. I didn't find it on my...

I'd just be curious, if we had it, how many of those people have moved? Because then if suddenly you've got 60% changing there, it is a really whole then whatever that number is how many of these lots do these people that are asking about doing it i mean i hate to see us go through all the work if we could do a little number crunching and identify whether there's new people living and if you don't know that's that's fine too but it's it's it's an easy search and i think miss rupertola if gis can do it because then you'd know the actual numbers you'd say okay there's 90 lots 40 were in favor of it, but of those 40 or of those 90, you know, 60 of them have changed ownership. And then to look at the other one, I was going to ask you, is the batch plant or the concrete, and then the car, there were some problems with the car lot because the water runoff was not going in the ground. And I just remember over the years, that was always a problem with them. wherever that water was running wasn't going any place that it should have gone. So those would be uses that I would think would be, they probably would really like to have that so they're not, you know, messing it up.

And I did check the list real quickly. Mark Vaughan is the owner of Pond Motors at the time we did the last proposal. Now that's been purchased by Mr. and Mrs. Kelly. So there have been property transfers over the course

William Wilcox, she's still there, right?

And so, and obviously now, Orange Jones, R.L. Jones properties own the pond. So they've been talking about sewer for a while. Initially, when it was the young lady, her husband, they were looking at it. So like a half a million dollars, I think they were thinking now is like 700 or some odd thousand. So we'll get some estimates. I appreciate you wanting to at least explore it. I think there's a benefit to be trying again, but I just don't hold out a lot of hope that the cost is going to be.

It's not going to get cheaper.

Mr. Rambo. Yeah.

Again, if it's, you know, if it's 50 grand divided equally, there are some of these larger places that would pay significant significantly greater fraction, right? Because they have 20 bathrooms or something like that. How does that calculation work? I mean, is there just a basic formula like number of bathrooms in a home, or is it like square footage of the lot, or how does that work?

I think it's the actual size of the lot.

Okay, so some of these properties are...

they covered a lot of them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I'm thinking. We're counting on that again that Rockwood School District would step forward and say, yes, we'll pay our share. We actually asked them to pay a little more because there was more of a benefit to them in so many ways. Yeah, yeah.

So it could be 20 or 30 for the individual homeowners, which is that's the cost of assessment. Thank you.

Any more comments before we do that calculation?

And also, Bride didn't make a contact, but MD&R has a local office in St. Louis. I'd like them to come and maybe talk about some of those low-interest programs, if there's any applicability. If I'm able at the July meeting, if it's okay with the chair, MD&R can be here. They'd be helpful to assist in the conversation.

Any other comments before we go? Okay, all in favor?

Aye. Any opposed? Any abstain?

Okay, motion passed. Okay, next on the agenda, we have the Mayor's Grove Relocation. That's Mr. Vujicic. Thank you, Chair. Madam Chair and members of the committee, as you know, several years ago, we were about to initiate the Bay's One project.

We had a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a bit of a in that to make phase one village green functional, we had to remove our existing trash enclosure and relocate it somewhere. The simple solution was to relocate it from the west side of the parking lot to the east side of the parking lot. Simple relocation. The committee authorized the preparation of an RF The RFP was advertised and our simple little trash enclosure was $115,000 to replicate. So ridiculous. Where people could live in. I know. The committee immediately rejected all of that and charged the department and the city administrator to find a solution. So we looked at different locations around City Hall and ultimately settled on the eight terminus of Flatwood Avenue. We did another RFP and this time cost was $56,000 and we proceeded forward. All of that means that we didn't need to relocate the Mayor's Grove. The traffic closure was going there. Saying that, we did talk about moving the Mayor's Grove over to Village Green Phase 1. And I still think that's a good idea. And so tonight, the department is basically asking the committee, although we wouldn't remove the trees on the side slope area, but we would remove the base and the plaques and relocate them over to the standard trees and village green phase one. The benefits, I think, are as follows. There's more expansion room in village green. As you know, we've kind of filled up that little flat area at the edge of the sidewalk. Any further trees will be planted on the slope for all intents and purposes. So that's a problem unto itself. And then secondly, if we move it to Village Green phase one, blocking it with vehicles that park there. So there'll actually be an increase in visibility. The side benefit of the item number three is we have so many people that go into Village Green now on a regular basis. They'll be able to actually see who are the mayors and the acknowledgement of their service to the city. So the department is seeking direction from the committee about potentially just moving those five or so bases and plaques over to Village Green. Before we would do that, we would select the area, identify the trees, their species, Mike Walsh, and then come back to committee in July with the layout and see what you all think.

Mr. Rambo?

Yeah, it's a... Good spot that you identified on your document there. And I walked over there and looked at the trees. Most of them are in pretty good shape already. And there's a couple that are probably going to need replacement. They're exotic species or interesting species and whatnot. And each one was unique that I looked at. no mayor can say, well, mine's mundane and so on and so forth. The existing plantings up there, they were in bad shape and somebody replaced a couple of the trees, I guess, a year or two ago. I haven't looked at it in a while, but yours is thriving. You're kind of bashful there. You're right there in the... facing an update from glenn gailey or sending to talk about we were over by your tombstone today thank you uh so my question though i think it's it's it's a cheap move and it's a good idea and it is more visible and it's um you know recognizes past mayors and um we can still leave those other trees over there there's a couple magnolias one i'm blooming it's looking real nice and um So I love it. We kind of killed two birds with one stone. We got landscaping there. Now we got some new stuff. But my question is, those tombstones, how much will they encumber? moving around and circulation and so on and so forth over there in that new spot, because that's, there's going to be a lot of people wanting to sit there, your concerts and stuff in the future. Have you thought about that? Or is there a way to like put them closer to the trees or what do you think?

Well, the advantage we have now that, over when we started the bear's grove and then bear bowl and finished with the remaining bears themselves, he now needs one as well, is that we have Mike Walsh. He didn't have him at the time. And I would depend almost entirely on Mr. Walsh to select the general tree types and how close we can put them to the trees themselves.

I was suggesting we could do some of the existing trees, you know, just put them. Here's the tombstones. Yeah, that's what you're suggesting.

Just like what trees here, what are the healthiest ones? What are the nicest ones that you think would be reflective of the service the mayor has provided? I'll let Mike make that decision.

Bowling's is a sycamore. I mean, that's mundane. And I mean, in 20 years, it'll be dwarfing the others and they're a mess and so forth. And so I don't know if, did the mayors get to choose their trees?

They did. We gave them the option. Okay, cut that off.

I would say.

That's a decision.

That's not part of it.

I would question the one that dropped all the crap in the yards and stuff. And Ryan, you couldn't have that one.

that's insane sycamores are like that too but um it's listing to starboard um to be the newest we'll fix we'll fix the list i promise yeah yeah yeah pull that one over but um other than that i think it's a great idea and cheap why the heck not why wouldn't we do it so i would make that motion we've had a volunteer to that said mr vianess said he would move them for us so

I told him I would help.

These are the tombstones.

The tombstones. The markers, not the tombstones. This is flex. This is flex.

OK, I'll drop the tombstone thing.

This is flex.

So it was introduced to me. You were Mr. Gailey.

It's been money.

It's over at the tombstone today. It's looking pretty good. It turned up real nice. Well, I'll make that motion if nobody else wants to.

Mr. Rambo and Ms. Magnus second. Any other discussion? Next, we have Mr. Boone, who's going to talk to us about the clock at Lindle Bank.

So thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair and members of the committee, as you know, at our last meeting, the department presented a proposal between the city of Lindle Bank for the city to assume responsibility of the post clock that's at the intersection of State Route 109 and New College Avenue. The committee identified several items that it wanted to be addressed before a decision was made. And so the department has been working on those items over the course of the last month. Principally though, I have good news. Those items was, can you fix the clock? And they did. So the clock now is keeping accurate time and The solution was as simple as going in and basically switching from daylight savings time to not daylight savings time. And it seems to work fine now.

Beautiful.

So the other item was just how it was metered. And it is metered into the bank building itself. And as you know, we're having that discussion, both administration and public works and last night at economic development committee about how to manage those streetlights that are metered into the businesses and not to the public right of way or utility easements. And so tonight the department is asking that we take no action whether to reject the offer or not. And let's see how this metering component with our street lights come out. The direction last night at Economic Development Committee, which Mr. Governor was there, was let's get some cost estimates from our electrician, authorized electric, see where it costs, see where we can place it, see if Ameren has any ideas. And so, I think as we work through that, we might find either that this isn't worth doing or it's worth doing because we can package it with the rest or whatever the situation might be. But it is working now. Good news. And for tonight, the department is requesting no action on this item until we get a little further along in the other.

Thank you, Annette. OK. Next, temporary lease agreement.

Can I ask a question about that?

Sure.

So it's very complementary to the main signal lights and stuff at taylor and main street and so on and so forth i mean it looks it's it's kind of ties the city together from end to end so i have no real objection to its location but i did ask that i mean it'd be great to put it in a more prominent spot if they're going to give us the dang thing anyway we could put it here on the corner by city hall or by the village green did you explore that or is that just kind of i actually forgot that that question and

My next contact.

I mean, it might cost 10 grand to move it, and that'd be kind of a non-starter.

It has to do with the electric, too. It has to do with electric.

Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, I love that. I mean, and it's really, it's pow, but not so much where it is now because it's behind the street light. It'd be nice to have it here. It'd be great to have it.

I wanted to see where it was in the right of way.

I was able to find paperwork. The state requires sidewalks to be outside the right of way, but in a public easement. And so, We basically asked that Jim Bodard got. He said, sure, you can have it there. It's outside the right-of-way.

It's also a surprise it hasn't been hit yet.

It would diminish that intersection a little bit, but it would improve this hyper-local area immensely. It's a great asset for the city. We could figure out some way to keep it. Great work. I think it's good.

While we wait on HAB-Jacques Juilland, Solutions related to metering public improvements to the right of way versus inside the building. I'll ask the question as well. Thank you very much.

HAB-Masyn Moyer, Temporary lease agreement for the JP connell house. HAB-Jacques Juilland, Thank you again.

I'll explain Melanie will be presenting some of the information tonight. She was on vacation last week. I was prepared much of it was Mr. Newberry and I. So my apologies.

I was following Route 66 on vacation.

Yes, you did the route.

So I want you to see my Route 66 shirt.

I love it.

We were in Pennsylvania. We're in Pennsylvania. My wife needed an Apple phone adapter thing. So I go into Walmart. Now, you couldn't get further from Route 66 than Pittsburgh. And I walk in, it's like six bucks. So I come back and they were selling them last year at Wildwood Days. It was just like $65.

You can't be kidding me. Well, yours probably is made in China.

So you got a trunk load of them?

This is the year to sell that trunk load.

So we were at a trivia contest the other night, and we were trying to say how many states and how long it was. And I said to my wife tonight, I said, why didn't you look at my shirt? It said the eight states, the mileage, the shortest state is Kansas. And everything was right there. I didn't even realize it. But anyway.

You're a good company this year, though. So Madam Chair and members of the committee, since January, Department of Planning has been providing the City Council as well as to a degree, the committee updates relating to the J.P. Connell House. As part of the memorandum tonight, we have the benefit of a great deal of research that's been conducted by the Wildwood Historical Society and Robin Keefe, the Historic Preservation Planner here at the City of Wildwood. As you can see, The Connell family had quite a history in this area, and that history is somewhat reflected in the home that was constructed where they live. Mr. Connell was involved in the mining and timbering of what is now Lockwood's Reservation, and much of that material, the wood and the stone, went to the city of St. Louis as it grew to almost 800,000 by 1975. However, after Connell passed, the house went on to the market, and St. Albans Properties purchased the property, 14 acres in the house, with the intent of eventually having a commercial node at B100, IAT, to serve their development in eastern Franklin County. Little did they realize that while it would incorporate a dream of commercial on every- No gas station. So they have, they held it for a long period of time and to their benefit and to, with much respect, they maintained the property and the home relatively well until recent years. And I don't know if there's a, it's a coincidence that when Mr. Novelli passed and the ownership went, and the ownership of the development and the properties went to others, Don't know if that was the cause or what. As you know, over the course of time, St. Albans Properties requested a demolition permit to remove J.P. Connell House. That was denied by our Historic Preservation Commission. And ultimately, we were able to delay it while we tried to find a solution with St. Albans Properties. We didn't. In the 11th hour, on the doorstep of the cliff, the Grueys. Christine and Terry Gruey purchased the property from St. Albans Properties and came immediately to the Historic Preservation Commission stating they would like to preserve it, but they needed incentives to do that. So tonight, there's two components to the presentation. First, as we've talked, there is a request from the Grewys for the city to enter it through a temporary lease agreement for a term of no more than six months, which would eliminate two concerns they have. First and foremost, the liability associated with a vacant home, large parcel of property in a rural area. They're afraid, as they have stated multiple times, That somebody getting onto the property or going into the house to do vandalism or no good would be injured and they would be liable regardless of the trespass component. So a short term lease and that lease is before you tonight. Secondly, and I think more importantly, The Historic Preservation Commission has rolled up its sleeves on two occasions, the April and May meetings, and came up with basically a preliminary incentive package. Incentives in Wildwood is not property tax breaks, tax credits, whatever it may be, it's land use. And so the properties divide somewhat into two pieces. There's a creek, a drainage tributary that cuts across it from the east to west, the west to east direction. North of it, there's four acres. South of it, 10 acres. The Historic Preservation Commission recommended that J.P. Connell House, which is on the north four acres of the site, be placed on a three acre lot and they be able to have an additional acre lot. So an extra lot is the first incentive. On the remaining 10 acres, the group commission recommended light industrial to light commercial, or some type of high density housing, but medium density housing, maybe focused on seniors, 55 and older, et cetera. The incentive package hasn't gone any further than the commission, now the committee, what you've been receiving in city council. We've not had anything with the community in the vicinity of the site.

So that's an important qualification.

The commission members have basically said, we know the community of that area is gonna like it. They understand that. But our focus has been on preserving the JP Common House. So tonight, the department's first question is, If the incentive package does move forward, do you as part of the city council believe it has any legs to stand on? It's a tough question, but if we, as the legislative body, the city council isn't going to entertain incentives, then we really don't need to enter into the temporary lease because we could spend the taxpayers' money with no real outcome No real favorable outcome in the future. So tonight, asking your opinions, what do you think? Is incentives an option that you would consider if we can tailor it such so it's so tight, so fixed that we know we're getting something that can work there? Or is it just too much, as they say, a bridge too far?

Mr. Farmer?

I mean, I really appreciate history and historical things like I do, but I think that that's, unless you're going to open that up to every historical place around town, I think that's a pretty slippery slope to go down. And while certainly this is an important property and I respect the people that have tried to care for it, there's part of owning properties like this that mean that that's what you're doing, like In my previous life, we represented a lot of the very cool old homes down in Central West End and in the city. And there were people that were paying a million dollars a year just to keep the house up. And they thought that that was a great honor that they were able to care for an old property like that and be part of that story. That's not to say that these folks aren't willing to do that. But I think that, you know, having driven out there, there's not a lot of stuff going on. I mean, there's not a lot going on out there and maybe some people would really love to have something, but what I mean is there's not a lot like commercial stuff going on. There's not like a gas station on every corner, that kind of stuff. And I think that that doesn't really fit with what's going on in that space. So, I mean, I just think that that is opening up pretty big can of worms. And I would say the same thing, even about the, I was going to ask about the lease, like I get it, but aren't we then taking the responsibility of somebody? So I, That's just, I get it. But for me, I think that would be a lot to ask for that.

So if we didn't give any incentives, what, in other words, I purchased the property not knowing if they were going to get any incentives or what was going to happen with it. What will happen with it? What are their plans if they don't get themselves?

Mr. Greer's plans have changed over the course of the last six months. But I think the consistent component of this plan says if no incentives are offered, the first thing they'll do is remove the JP Connell house because it is a liability and a risk to them. Thereafter, He raises cattle out on Pond Road. He needs additional pasture. So his initial conversation with the Historic Preservation Commission was, I'll bring cattle to the property and use it for pasture for an interim period until something better comes along. The benefit to him is his pasture and cattle on the pasture, he'll get an agricultural assessment for the 14 acres and pay a nominal fee in terms of property tax. Mr. Farmer, with the permission of the chair, there is a component there I should have probably mentioned and I'm glad you identified it in your response. There are probably, and this has been discussed at the Historic Preservation Commission, and Dr. Ramu can affirm this, There's probably only about four or five other properties that raise to the level that J.P. Connell house. And I say that because those are the properties that have been identified either by Esley Hamilton, the Farmer County historian that worked for their Department of Parks and Recreation, or our assessments by the experts that have done the inventory or our survey. Those are properties that could be on the National Register. Other than that, we're really not looking at other.

I would just say, however, I mean, it doesn't matter if there's 10 or if there's three, like whatever it is, I think if we're going to go down that road, we need to extend to those places the same thing. Because if the idea is, you know, we really like this house, we think it's important, it's going to be restored properly. In order to do that, they have to put a, you know, a nice looking gas station and convenience store or whatever it is they want to put out there. Great. But I think that there's a risk to just, you know, well, it could be it could be this. It could be that we don't really know what it could be. And that that to me just seems like a big ask.

And that's been the hardest part with Mr. Greer is kind of tying him down to what would you want there? And Dr. Rambo's been at those meetings.

Yeah, and this is, you guys are coming in like way, way, way, way late in the game. So you have the questions that we asked months ago and it's frustrating because it has kind of been like nailing jello to a wall, quite honestly. and um but uh the the request that the request that they seem to be making i mean they weren't they wanted to put an apartment building there at one point so it's it's been all over the map but the request they seem to be making is um light commercial um that you access off of old manchester because it's just like two of these um uh 100 and old manchester and um uh entering and exiting that parcel from Old Manchester seems like a reasonable approach to me because there's so much, there's 50 years of trees that have grown up around the entire perimeter and it's really well screened. And so if there's something like a, you know, office, you know, low riding office complex, or as Joe suggested, senior living, a few villas or something like that, it could be, that people wouldn't complain about. I think the housing is better than out there just because it plays better than an office complex of any kind. But I could see it being a boon to the community out there because it will be hidden. a few more folks one more housing option in wildwood which you know we don't have a a whole lot of those other than the place over by the ymca as far as i know um so it could work and the question is is the council going to have any stomach for it because this could be an expensive renovation we can't afford it these folks if they we give them the release that they're looking for. Maybe they'll fund it. I don't, I, it's hard to read whether this guy would pay for it or not. It's a lot of money, but he seems to have that. And you know, in exchange for getting what he wants, maybe it's, Maybe he would. And so I would suggest to you, Joe, they're not making any more properties for the National Historical Register. And the National Historical Register, if we have four in Wildwood remaining, I'll be surprised. And a couple of them are big ones like retreat centers and so on and so forth. And so probably the only there might be one or two other houses. Joe, is that accurate?

Yes.

So we're not talking about a huge impact on the community if we let the camel's nose under the tent and then suddenly we got 50 properties screaming about it because it's just not that way. Joe, I don't know the condition of the other properties you're referring to that would potentially qualify, but they might be in better shape than this one. So there's not a problem for the city.

The one on track right now is LaSalle Retreat Center. That's going to be to the Development and Zoning Review Committee probably by the end of this month or the beginning of July. They need incentives, but their plan is to preserve all of the historic assets and then fund that preservation effort through adaptive reuse of the buildings to other things than a retreat center, will stay a retreat center, part of it. And then the surrounding properties, let's say the remaining 160 acres, some type of housing at a greater density than one unit per retreat acre. So it's a question that's going to come back to you quickly. Here, it's just a single asset. there, it's a solid Institute.

So you can't like, I get my, maybe, and maybe this is a question for John. I don't know. I I'm, or you may might know this Joe or Ed, I guess. I don't, I don't know how legally we make an arrangement that says, we will give you this change, but you have to update this or fix it to our specific standards because I'm not saying it would happen, but you know, things happen. And all of a sudden that house is, not able to be kept up or whatever it is. And now that door has been opened. Like, I don't know how we, I don't think that they're the way that the city can legally do that.

The mechanism is the historic land use category of imposter plan, which can only be applied to properties that are on the local register. And as the local register, the nomination and the process, there's an ordinance. So you set the requirements and it could be, you can't, you have to maintain the house to an acceptable property maintenance standard for 30 years. And if you don't, here's the penalty. You refund all of the incentives or all of the money or so. I don't know how it works. We've only done one and it's Westland Acres. And that was pretty straightforward because they just wanted to do one acre density on the 50 plus acres that's in Wildwood. It's straightforward.

I just know, and it's a little bit of a side quest, I guess, but you guys talked about an EDC and they talked about an admin, this lighting issue with some of these buildings. So My understanding is these buildings were built with the understanding that those lights were going to be tied to the building. And now they're not, or they won't, or they might not, or whatever it is. So I'm just saying, well, we might make a decision that seems really good right now in two years or five years or 10 years, all of a sudden somebody goes, I don't care if you have that thing or not.

Oh, there is this thing that's laced with layers of risk. I acknowledge that that's why we're here now before we get too far along. Because up to this point, you've been getting reports, but they've been generally for information and only one for action. And it was just to go forward and get the lease. We're at that point now though. And I will tell you, I got a big mouth of late, so I'll be cautious here. The streetlights for the businesses, that's the cost of the zoning. There was no question they were required to light those because that was part of the zoning process. The fact that we're arguing that they don't have to, they were glad to do it because they got the zoning they wanted and could build the building they wanted and move forward with the project. I don't think we made a mistake. It's just, we're looking back.

I don't think that we did either. And based on what I read, we did, but my concern is this, like, I think the argument for that is this owner is saying, well, I didn't agree to that. I just bought the property. So if we do that and, and you know, that, that can happen with, there's plenty of developments where somebody builds something with every great intention and then they go, you know what? My great intention is to retire. So I'll see you later. And then we sell it to somebody else.

Here's the slippery slope. Eventually, if we, rescue these businesses, I would expect a lot of subdivisions where we require streetlights and they make the HOA pay for them.

I can tell you, I pay almost $40,000 a year for my streetlights. I would love for the city to pay for that.

So that's the slippery slope because we're saying in those ordinances, you have to have streetlights and you have to maintain them and operate them. Same thing we did to the businesses.

So I'm... I will say this, and Rob, I will say this because I know you guys worked hard on this. I am appreciative that they came up with a unique, good idea. It is a solid idea. I just don't know if it is... I don't know that it is as solid as it can be just simply based on the factors that we as a city don't have perhaps as much as control of things as we might like.

So I hear you and I feel you. It's more a matter of, is the city willing to spend any money? And it's, you know, it's kind of, at this point it feels like throwing good money after bad because it's the play the i kind of feel like the place is going to get knocked down no matter what we do but i'm looking back at the marionist and that was a tragedy i mean it was just really truly a tragedy that place was spectacular it was gorgeous it was unique and it was um you know you know an integral part of this community for a century and now it's a pile of rub well it's sod or something now it's just Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this place, the fact that it's sort of the twin in construction technique with Pond Schoolhouse a couple miles away and eligible for the National Historic Register. I I'm compelled by my, one of my other jobs as a member of the historic preservation commission to argue in favor of trying to preserve it. But I, I hear you.

It's just, I mean, I would almost say much like, and I don't, I mean, I wasn't around when we took on the pond schoolhouse. But to me, with a lot of these things, and the Marianist thing could have been one of those things as well. Like, if there's an asset that is in your city that is important to enough people, then, you know, if you want to keep it the way that it should be, in my opinion, it should be How much does it cost the city to purchase that property and an acre or whatever it takes around it, let the guy put his cows on it or whatever it is he wants to do. And we take on that responsibility and figure out what it takes. I'm not saying I'm in favor of doing that necessarily. That's the suggestion. That's the proposal on the table is doing just that.

well the proposal right now is to take on a lease for a short period of time and then change the zoning to let these guys while we work it out right well right i mean that's the that's the intent and the upshot of what we're talking about as we morphed or evolved the conversation with the mr christine and terry gruey mr gruey keeps saying eventually this is going to be yours i His long-term vision isn't that they'll do a bed and breakfast or do something. This isn't in their wheelhouse. But I don't know when that is. Is that 30 years? Well, maybe. I don't know. But As I say, I just don't want to, I don't want to get us into a lease agreement, make all these steps to stabilize and secure the building. And then ultimately, like has happened when we had a proposal down in the Glencoe area, it just blow up in everybody's face. And the property owners, then the Gunthers, they had acquired 20 lots and they were stuck with them then. And they started renting them out and then they became, problem of properties. And so I just want to avoid that for all of us.

So breaking it into four, the four acres, leaving the house on the three, the one other acres, they're going to build a new house there then. And I kind of answered it. What is their intent to do with the old house then? I mean, I remember going through it and it's incredible, but I also know that through my brother-in-law that St. Albans got rid of because they couldn't keep it safe, you know, and they didn't want the risk and their business is not to try to keep something that costs more to maintain than what they could do with the property. So any ideas what it would be used for? I mean, bed and breakfast, I get that part. That's not.

The renovation. So the commitment was they would restore, rehabilitate and reuse the, And one of the options was is kelp might move their offices over there and use the building for that. Because they're in an old house now. Okay, but it's just an old ranch. I mean, it's nothing. I think they're outgrowing that or they need additional space. So, but it's been hard and I don't blame the grewies. This is new to them just to nail them down. But any proposal that ultimately get moves forward. It would have to include, you can't just renovate it and then let it fall into disrepair. There has to be a use in it.

Well, we can't even do a bed and breakfast there, can we? Under our ordinances, I mean, that's a short-term rental.

In the non-urban, with three acres or more, you can do a conditional use permit for a bed and breakfast.

Or a B&B.

Yeah.

What about like, so Airbnb or all that kind of stuff? Yeah.

Yeah, somebody could do it.

Okay.

You're going to go across the road and you're going to have those 15 new houses, million dollar houses going up on the left-hand side of St. Albans Road. Yep. I love your kelp idea. I didn't know about that, but that's just ideal. I was going to ask how noisy it would be there because kelp is right on top of that. That's the other side of the street is the salt shed right there. Yep.

It seems well screened to me. Don't you feel like it's very much so? Yeah.

I liken it. If you drive down Route 100 South toward Franklin County, you know, we did the subdivision West Dean and there's 12 lots on the 66 acres. We protected that area, that strip along Route 100. You really don't even know there's a new development there. And I kind of see this as that. We would screen it. So at least on Route 100, no one would know. And across the street, as you know, on the north is Kelp. So I don't know if we have to be as worried there. And there's the old Manchester Road, which Dr. Rambos described very well.

There's a post office and two homes across from that parcel, right?

Yeah.

And that's it. And then the rest of it, I mean, there's an entrance to the park that they don't use. Maybe they would open that up.

You may have said this, but for this lease, has this been something that the attorney for the city has reviewed and said it's an okay to proceed kind of concept?

Mr. Young got it on May 29th. I talked to him today. His crew is reviewing it, but They've had some vacations and things, and he was apologizing. But I told him, we don't need the nuts and bolts on the lease. It's more about the incentives. We're not going to do it. We don't need the lease. So I guess it's a tough question to ask you all. And I guess what I would kind of conclude the discussion, maybe take no action. I'll take back to Mr. Grewey your concerns. And

I just think I'm going to, I mean, my guess would be, I think, I think taking away, I mean, I might suggest taking, I would suggest maybe taking no action, but I would, I would say like, more than likely, unless you came with like a pretty serious, like, you know, Kelp's going to move over here. And this is like, my guess is just based on how everything else seems to go, you're going to get people coming out of the woodwork to complain about something that they don't understand because you don't even know what it's going to be yet. And so I think, I think that you would have, I mean, I'm just one vote. I just think you're going to have a lot of people that are going to be like, I don't know if this is something we want to do only because we don't have the full vision of what it could be. I mean, if kelp can move over there and we can, I, That makes a lot of sense, but I think you've got to be pretty clear on that stuff. Or these owners need to be pretty clear, and then we need to be pretty honest that this is what they're clear on today. They own the property, so they have every right to change their mind when they want.

Our job collectively is to, if they do decide to change their mind and we don't like it, we don't let it happen.

Well, it's a process and we've got to roll the bones at some point or we just fold one of the two, right? Because there's no way to get kelp to commit to a fallen down house that's structurally sound but takes, you know, quarter million dollars of renovation without any clarity. And so there's a lot of tension there. And so the question is, you know, do we feel lucky at certain?

So on the remaining 10 acres. I'm sure it's a really small list of things that they could possibly put in there. And I guess that's one of those areas that would probably make it a little bit easier to understand if you're not going to be able to do, unless you could do, you know, 10 villas or something. Other than that, I don't think that like, industrial or commercial stuff would be a very good option.

I saw some sketches though. Wasn't there a sketch or two? Steve Scott, who's the advisor to the HPC, he came up with a sketch plan. I've been hesitant to circulate it because the Rulies weren't necessarily supportive of it. They were wanting to lean more toward commercial light industrial. Ultimately, that was the action of the commission. either one or the other. If it is residential, it's at a half acre density.

If you think about it, there's so much office space available to put new offices there. It's an odd start. You're right. There's no traffic. So that would just be a really hard sell, I think, for even an investor. I mean, I know they have more money than they need, but I think that something more comparable might be. I think you could make an exception for some villas, maybe some more affordable housing in that area. That might work because you're not going to have a lot of traffic. It could be a win-win-win. Yeah. Really good. Maybe that would be up versus putting cattle on it.

Yeah. What I'm hearing at this point is that the group is not feeling real strongly about or with any action tonight without more clarity. Am I correct? Yeah.

Yes.

I'll do my best to have something.

What is Kelp, like what is their facility? Is that light industrial? What is that? Well, they just have trucks and stuff.

Yeah. It's now legal non-conforming because of the Simms Board of Adjustment took action in 2002. But the master plan was wanting to basically take away the non-conforming And they made a recommendation that it would be still not urban residential area, but there would be an exception for Pelts property. And we did that for Mr. Brown down at the end of West Avenue because he's sandwiched between Westridge Oaks, the commercial area, New College Avenue and all the development around them being suburban or town center. We gave him an exception in the suburban that gave him basically instead of one unit for every three acres, two units for every three acres. So one and a half per acre. So we've done it in the past and that's what the group's going to recommend. That's coming your way here at the end of summer. All right. We'll do it.

Okay, if everybody's okay, then we'll go ahead and move forward.

Thank you for the conversation. It was very helpful. I appreciate it. It is a neat house.

Yeah. Okay, next is recent development trends within the city of Wildwood. I think that's going to be Mr. Patel and Mr. Lynch.

If there's any questions regarding any of the updates on the development proposals, the author's

We're still on vacation.

Any questions on that?

Okay, let's move forward to parks matters. And the first is Village Green Phase 2 Engineered Plan for Elm Closet Playground.

And that's Mr. Vunic.

Thank you again. Madam Chair and members of the committee, the reason this particular item is tonight's agenda is primarily just for the current status And I wish I could tell you I had a better set of circumstances to explain to you. I'm going to start first with the wheelchair swing. This is a piece of equipment that wasn't originally part of the proposal provided by Unlimited Play to the committee. But it is a piece of equipment that very few other all-inclusive playgrounds have. So the committee endorsed moving forward with the exploration of it. First and foremost, would it fit as part of this particular facility and what's its cost? Unfortunately, those two components have been very elusive. What I'm finding is this sole source contract, and again, it's my responsibility to manage the city's end of it, includes Ideal Landscape Group, CEDC, the engineering company, unlimited play, all inclusive rack. And now a couple of the utility providers are playing a role, much greater role than I had expected one being MSD. So I don't have that information yet. And I've been asking for it now close to two months. So I wanted to update you on that. It's not that Ms. Riveto and I aren't trying, we are. It's just, it seems like it's elusive at this moment. If that's elusive, the doggone restroom is almost invisible because I think your direction was very clear. They sent over a floor plan. You as a committee said we want a family restroom with two water closets and an adult changing table and then two other unisex restrooms with just one water closet unit. That's it. That description from the committee was provided to them in a markup that was done by Ms. Ripoteau and I. And for whatever reason, we've been getting resubmittals that don't look much like that. And more importantly, they say they can't do it now. And by the way, the cost of everything is escalating rapidly. So you need to make a decision. What we had, I don't know. So we're trying to set up a Teams meeting for Thursday to talk about this and see if we can make some progress. So the restroom, we want it given the perfect, clear direction it was provided. And we still don't have the final plan or the updated cost estimate for you. Crestview Drive, as you know, you don't own Crestview Drive. It's a private street, two-thirteenths of the rights, without access to the playground. for accessibility purposes. The best we offer is you park here at Tiddy Hall and you go 300 plus feet in a wheelchair or however the circumstances might be. So that's out there. Mr. Lee, Mr. Brown, HAB-Jacques Juilland, And others are working very hard on it, we press CDI to get us the map the the design which we have now in hand, it was presented last night to the economic development committee they gave direction relative to. We're not going to underground the utility lines. It doubles the cost of the project. We're going to try to relocate them and ensure that we don't have to pay for that because the state legislature was thinking about making that cost to the city. By the way, you're using our right-of-way. We get you easements for it. Now we've got to pay you if we want to use our right-of-way for public purposes. They're private entities, by the way. They're profit makers. So Tom, we objected on that. So we still don't have access to the park. So other than through phase one of the . So the fourth component, that's why Mr. Bosworth and his wife are here tonight, is that, as you know, the Planning and Zoning Commission recommended the denial of the last version of Latitude North The last version of altitude North 38 reduced the density substantially to 44 units, but there were concerns that were identified by the department planning that said that the mission occurred, but an appeal has been filed and that appeal now is scheduled for public hearing at the September meeting for city council. I say all of that because Mr. Bosworth and I had a conversation and I think to be frank, We both realized something's going to develop there. If it isn't this 44-room plan, there's going to be something. Mr. Bosworth and Bent Homes don't buy property and land bank it. They buy it to develop it. And in many instances, we hope to develop it in accordance with the town center plan and the requirements. So Mr. Lee, myself, Mr. Levinson at Benton Homes and Mr. Bosworth at TB Realty and Development Med. And we kind of said, regardless of this plan, what can we do to work together to make your project eventually more feasible and to address our concerns about its impact on Village Green phase one and phase two? And this is what came back for me. And we received this today. We're certainly not asking you to do anything with it. But what we talked about is there are shared benefits to us working together. And you can see those. Instead of a kind of loop street that accesses Etherton Road, this is now a cul-de-sac street that terminates on Village Green Phase 2. What that termination does is create a cul-de-sac that offers up to 23 spaces of parking for phase two of Village Green, the playground. That's more parking than we had shown relative to our design. It's accessible from Etherton Road, and we're not dependent on obtaining rights to Crestview from the other level holders of rights. or more dedication of right-of-way from the other 11 holders of right, or the construction cost. So there's the first thing. And one of the reasons for the denial of the most recent application by the developers for this property was stormwater concerns. Don D' And the department's position, and it may not be one any of the Council support was let's work together and make stormwater work for your side our side and city hall site. Don D' let's look at it, because the ridges other tuning crush you drive, so to speak, and everything's come in that direction let's work together and make a good stormwater point. Don D' So what they're showing now is. combined facility that's partially on latitude north 38 site, partially on village green. It becomes retention, a lake, and it's an asset to the projects, both the private and the public. First and foremost, the playground is to be fenced with secured gates given the clientele. So if you're worried about having the water feature during the playground, We've addressed that long before this was designed. The users of the all-inclusive playground need to have boundaries established, and all of them have fencing with self-locking gates to ensure that they're safe at the facility. So I know Mr. Kummer has been As a private resident and adjoining property owner, very outspoken about the concerns relative to this project. Not here to change that. All I'm saying is, again, and I'm emphasizing, something's going to be there. Let's work together to get that something, whatever it is. to benefit us as the owners of the adjoining property and hopefully help them find solutions to the problems that have created now three applications and three denials. So to summarize, progress on most of the design work for phase two of the playground is going terribly. And I can't give you a specific set of reasons other than Maybe I'm an idiot. I just don't know what I'm doing. And the other is, we have an opportunity to work together. I'm not saying that 46 single family dwellings attached in clusters of four or less is the project that's going to work. But I think collectively, we know something's going to happen there. It's in town center, it's designated neighborhood general. And we need to follow our plan. If something comes in that's compliant, I'll be at the podium for the near term at least. If I don't do an outburst, I'm telling you we should follow the plan, so.

The one comment I would make to add to what you indicated is that swing is very unique. That may be throwing them off a little bit on design because that is something that's not many places, the wheelchair swing. In terms of the restroom, no clue why that is being difficult. But the other piece, there may be some pieces to that that are.

And again, Ms. Rapatel, on all the communications between the different parties working on the program, she's copied on those designs. What I did is I basically put a marker, a heavy marker, and basically did what you described. And then we also asked the committee to basically come up with color selections. Ms. Pritchett and Ms. Dodwell, when they were members, gave color selections. I added those onto the sheet and said, Dave Buckle, the owner of Idea Landscape Group, what works best? What have you seen of these color combinations? You built 50 of these. We're building one. What works best? What color combinations do most people find most suitable? That's what they got. I don't know what I'm getting there.

Okay, Mr. Rambo, I think was first.

Yeah, is this the time to discuss certain aspects of this? Yeah, so I've insisted from the beginning that the first road that was likely drawn when Wildwood was incepted was Main Street. I think you were around for that. It needs to happen. And I don't understand the resistance because we clearly are eager to upgrade these folks' experience. And Tracy, you're a real estate professional. Is it wrong for me to suggest that this would enhance and increase their property values if we build them a mailbox, you know, like a monument mailbox? We clean things up. They get a beautiful street to drive on. They don't have a, you know, Crestview is pretty bad. The pavement's pretty bad. Is this an upgrade for those folks?

I think people might just... at in their yard. You know what I mean? They like the privacy of it. I'm assuming.

Yeah, but the privacy is gone. So it's going to be through street. So I don't understand that. But anyway, my observations on this plan would be the The view from Main Street has to be very appealing of houses, buildings, dwellings 1 through 22. It can't just be their patio.

front.

I'm sorry. Oh, that's the front. Oh, okay. Wonderful. Okay. Okay. Okay. So the part fronting, the part toward the north, that's the front of the homes.

Yeah. So the road to the middle is the garage. Okay. That's great. The south has fronts facing into that. So that whole south now is like a

So my reactions to this were that this pond thing is a wonderful, I guess the blue line, is that pool? Is that like a normal pool? Okay. And the fountain, that's an amenity for Village Green. And if we could have a little path passed there and it would be wonderful. My complaint would be that the cul-de-sac is beautiful. encroaching and i understand why because we're trying to get you know kids in wheelchairs and with other uh mobility problems closer to the park but i liked the expanse of green there and it's only a few feet, but I would, you know, maybe we can kind of bend it around a little to the north so that it doesn't encroach quite so much on the park. But I think this is a big step in the right direction. That's my opinion of it. So I just wanted to throw that out there.

I'm not endorsing these people.

No, I understand that. I'm just saying, I think it's, we're trying to cooperate.

Something's going to go.

Yeah, no, I understand. I agree completely in something. If it's 20 homes or if it's 40, it's still encroaching. Similarly, I mean, you don't count noses every time you walk out your house. It's either going to be, I mean, and they're entitled to build relatively high density place there.

Mr. Kummer had a good question before the meeting started. It was, well, the cul-de-sac part of it is over the property line. So is it split between private and public? In town center, all streets are public. So the street leading up to the cul-de-sac is public. Cul-de-sac would be public. We would own the land. It'd be dedicated to the city.

I just would like to see a little bit more green space between the parking and the parking. playground, just aesthetically. But my final question is, what does this availability of parking, additional parking, do to the parking that we're planning on our Boulevard-style Main Street? Do we get some relief over there? Or are we still going to talk about the same amount of parking there?

I mentioned Mr. Kummer was at Economic Development last night, and that came up. What's Main Street really going to look like? It's going to look more like the main street and main street crossing versus the main street here, because what we're proposing on main street now in this segment is residential, not commercial. So it's 70 feet of right of way, two drive lanes, a center median, which we're using for utilities and start water management. And there's going to be parallel parking. There's always been planned parallel parking along the street. But beyond that, I don't think there's much. Good. Okay.

So it's cleaner. It's okay. All right. Well, thank you. That was very helpful.

One thing that's nice is that it puts the grade for the disabled parking is better than trying to have them come up as it was before.

You mean the cul-de-sac just having it where it is?

Just the grade for, I'm only looking at the disabled piece of it for accessibility.

You have to do the switch back to make the parking work for the elevation of the entry into the green, so we did that switch back.

So, Vicki, in your opinion before, I'm sorry, Tracy, but that brought up a great point. In your opinion, then, is the proximity vital or just important, or do you see it both ways? Because I think the green space is good for the soul, just like being able to play with your friends is.

Well, from my view, I'm just looking at it from the ability for someone to get there. This is much better than what we had because the person now doesn't have to fight the grade to get up the hill to the playground.

Sure, I'm saying if you move it 40 feet further west, would that materially affect it? Yeah, okay. I think it would aesthetically do a lot.

that side that's my only comment the rest of it not really my uh decision but for that piece i just wanted to mention that and that i just have a question i know this is not being decided tonight or anything but so i want to understand so if someone is parking to use the playground they have to come down this street through the cul-de-sac correct And these are all garages and people's cars. And in other words, I want the experience of the playground. Like we have this beautiful village green and now we're going to send people down essentially an alley. And I like that, that they all face the back. I think that's great. It just doesn't give me a good feel sending, you know, I don't know, everybody down that street. My question is, could those parks open from the other side and like curb around the cul-de-sac and still the people that live here, You know, if they need extra parking, I don't know if that's intended to be an overflow. It's not going to make them any further from where they're going. It just makes them enter a different way and park from the other side. And then I don't know.

What about a road next to 22? What about like a connection exit?

Yeah, I don't know. I'm just saying, like if I'm- That's not the problem. I don't know that I want the traffic coming through either. And it just doesn't make it pretty. I agree with you 100%. Because it's the backs of their garages.

And this isn't the only disabled parking. There's disabled parking on the other side. So not everybody is going to be going to the plate.

I mean, it'll be used for all functions of the village green. I mean, I can't stop people from parking.

Just to advise, I think- Mr. Bosworth twisted Bull's engineering arm almost off its socket to get the plan in. So we all haven't had much time to look at it. But what I would say is this is an interim solution. Because right now, I don't know, is Main Street two years away, three years away? I don't know. I think we're all trying to get it done quicker, but I don't know. So eventually, I could see that happening, what you just described. Something coming, not a road, but just like this simple drive out out here on the west side of the building. It's just a drive out, 22 feet width, comes up and accesses the cul-de-sac at a different location. Does two things. It gets them on a prettier street and into the park and eliminates some of the traffic that the residents

talking about north south along residence number 22 somewhere along there it doesn't even have to be on their property it could be on ours no but i'm saying that's where that's the path we're talking about and it doesn't have to be a street not everything needs to be a street place i agree but tracy's completely right and that was you know i forgot to mention that but driving past 40 people's homes they don't want that and you know and and it's aesthetically it's not as good that's

Okay, Mr. Farmer, I think you were next.

Yeah, so I will just say in general, I agree with you, Joe and Mr. Bosworth. I think, I do think we need to find a way to figure some of these things out together because they are certainly mutual issues that need to go on. So in general, I think that that's a really good thing. But I do think like, look, I think that there's one, two, three, like six handicap spots. Is that right? I know it's a temporary thing, but Like, I'm looking at this and I'm wondering, and this may have already been sorted out, like, do these guys not need a second entrance into this place? Is that not a problem?

Actually, the length of the cul-de-sac, I believe the fire marshal is satisfied with it. And the fire marshal also knows we'll eventually have Main Street to serve as well. Okay.

So I would just say, like, I think working together is a great thing, and I think that this is a very good start, and maybe we can figure, we got some things to figure out, and all of that will be great. But I do think, like, these six spots that are up here for handicapped folks, my assumption, not dealing with that on a regular basis, is there's probably some kids that the closer we can get them to the park, the better. more aesthetically pleasing things but i think in some of these cases the closer is better to get these kids into the park and be able to play so i mean i i think this is a good start i think certainly there's probably more work to be done when it comes to the lake how who pays for the lake's upkeep and all that stuff if it's split between the two is that something that gets given to the city or how does that work i think it

Obviously, we could press to have the developer pay for the maintenance. The developer will probably press for us. Are there somewhere in between?

I just know only because I have a big lake in my subdivision, it's a gigantic pain in the ass. If you guys want it, you can have my lake and you can have this lake. I don't care.

We're going to fix it up and make it a better retention basin, but We'd love you to keep it.

I just think those are maybe some of those things where we just need to understand some of those details because I think getting a lake over there is a good thing. It probably solves a whole lot of problems and that's all good. I think kind of working backwards because there's a few things on the table here. I'm a little probably just because I'm new on the committee. I'm a little unclear who we're not able to get plans back from.

So As you recall, we did this sole source agreement. Unlimited Play has been approved by SourceWell. SourceWell is one of those overarching entities that bid across all the states, and they basically then made the process at the local level. Unlimited Play is that. Unlimited Play brought along Idea Landscape Group, which is the contractor that will build the park, but they also they brought along the engineer. And the engineer now is engaging all inclusive rec, basically supplies and equipment and the cost of certain non-playground items, the restroom, et cetera. And so we have unlimited play that is the oversight. We have ideal landscape group, the contractor. We have the engineer and then we have all inclusive rec And so there's four entities. And then MSD stepped into the picture and said, oh, by the way, you need to provide stormwater management. It's like, well, wait a second. Didn't we, we talked about this when we did phase one. They feel that there's, and part of it too, I think isn't bad because we want to try to capture as much of the stormwater. Future main street and do it here and free up that median maybe for something else. But yeah, that's the play.

So it sounds like unlimited play to me.

Yeah.

They can't find up the swing?

Well, they passed it off to Idea Landscape Group and Idea Landscape Group passed it off to CEDC, the engineer. And I called the Idea Landscape Group last week, left a message because I couldn't get anybody to answer the phone. And I haven't heard back from them. So on Friday, I said, listen, I'm not used to I do it all the time. I don't call back people the same day. But then again, I'm not paying $80,000. So I get a call back and that's when they all said, well, we'll get a team's meeting scheduled for Thursday.

We're not going to call you back. We're going to get a team's meeting.

I might just, I would say, I would just suggest this. We pay these people a lot of money to figure this stuff out. I don't think you guys need to be on any team's meeting. I think we just say unlimited play. You came in, you played your great video. Everybody was in tears. We want to have this thing. I want to have a price for this and I want to have a price for this. And here's the data I needed by. And if that's a problem, here's what I would like from you, unlimited play lady, coming out and explain to the council why this is an issue. I'll be glad to do it. If you want, you can play this tape for them. Because that's one of these things that I think people kind of take advantage of in a big way of, you know, the generosity of the city. This is a massive undertaking. We have a small concept of how much this is going to cost. And, you know, I think if we're going to put this in and we want to swing for kids in wheelchairs, I don't know who else we would get that answer from. These are the people that specialize.

Yeah, because what I've been told, the wheelchair swings, they're like, They require their own area. They have a special safety zone.

I have to imagine it's, it would have to take a lot of planning and coordination. So the sooner we could get something like that, the better.

And I'm not getting it right now.

Who else already has one?

Who did? No one around here.

Swing. That's why it was time.

Facebook yesterday.

I'm like, maybe I can't cheat ourselves because. I don't want to sound crass, but part of this, too, was this was an economic development decision to bring the playground here instead of, let's say, Glencoe or Community Park. Because we know it draws people from not only the city, but the areas around the city. And they go down the street and get a coffee or stop at a restaurant. So we want to make it appealing. We want to differentiate. At least that's how I interpreted the economic development side of it.

Well, we want to do it. I mean, if we're going to do it, you might as well do it the right way.

I mean, you said it twice tonight. We're going to do an eight-inch, eight-foot barrier and then have to risk the fact that we don't have a fall in the line for stuff to move. Let's do it right the first time.

Yeah, I would say, I mean, I guess... Maybe I can make this motion.

You guys tell me.

I'm happy to be on this. I'm good on this. I've been on teams meetings before. We got some work done on that watershed thing pretty quick. The next meeting, I think, big meeting is the council meeting, right? So I will make a motion that we reach out to Unlimited Play and we either get a price for these two objects by the next council meeting where they can come in and explain why we don't have one. Sounds good.

I hear a second to that motion. Any further discussion on that?

Everything else can go forward, even if we don't, even if we're dragging on the swing, right? I mean, there's no swing in the restroom, but the swing's not in the critical path and the restroom is a bring it in on a giant crane and sit it down, right? I mean, it's a modular restroom, isn't it?

Yes, it's supposed to be pre-manufactured, but I need to, we need to see first if they can build the one we asked them to and what's the cost.

No, I understand that, but I'm saying there are, neither one is in the critical path of the remainder of the project, the remainder of the- I'll argue that all of it is because we don't have access.

We're going to have to depend on the back of City Hall. We don't have Main Street.

No, I understand that. I was just suggesting that the swing, we don't have to move forward with the swing to get the rest of the playground in operation. And the restroom, that kind of sucks. But by the time the construction is done...

I would say, and Joe, you correct me if I'm wrong on this, like, we... don't have a full understanding of how much this is all going to cost yet. And we have a specific limit that we, and so we put these things in and then they show up and they're like, sure, we can put it in. It's only another $200,000 to move this thing around the tree or whatever it is that throws all of these things into a pretty significant.

We got to have a restroom, but I'm not sure the wheelchair swing thing, is a deal breaker necessarily because that's going to be costly and you're going to have to hire a crew of people to push the dang thing. I can't imagine how a wheelchair swing even operates. That's not a question for this group.

Madam Chair, does Jim Van Ness do restrooms?

Sorry. The swing is actually pretty cool. Maybe I should send you the Facebook post. I got it. So you can see how it works.

There's more than one supplier for it. Yeah. I mean, that's where if they can't do it, then I'd find somebody else. I mean, the parks are so popular now all over the country.

There you go. Tracy's real estate company is going to buy us this wheelchair swing she just found. $1,500 for this one. I'm like, what's wrong with me?

$1,500? I mean, it's not the most basic thing in the world, but. It's a pallet with some rope.

It's rustic. It's a rustic.

I didn't think the request was that out of the ordinary.

I don't think it is. I mean, my guess is everybody this time of year is very busy and getting stuff done, and that's all fine. But we are on, in my opinion, we're on timelines. We get stuck behind a lot of stuff.

Mr. Farmer, you're absolutely right. We have a grant that was supposed to be done at the end of this month. Ms. Ripito and Mr. Kelly of the Small Park Grant Commission. They are best friends. And then we have the grant. And also, we have a lot of people that have given money now.

We have a sponsor right here, Tracy. There's a mic off.

Why do we need to honor that?

We have a motion on the floor. Do we want to vote on that?

Sure.

They have the cost by the next council meeting. All in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? Any abstentions?

Thank you.

Can we move forward on Village Green Phase 2 upcoming event?

Can I ask one more question? I kind of think this is a great way to look at it. But why not just make it a connecting street instead of just having a cul-de-sac and bring it out to Main Street? So you'd have two ways in, two ways out, and do something like that. Absolutely.

And the parking could be along that street. It could just be a little wider. So it would be...

alleviate my concern about the i think it's really unfair to the people living in the homes too coming down and going to the park for an hour yeah i mean i was looking back at probably when we did the green and there was a lot of people that got angry at green pines park when people were parking all the place so still do yeah we've learned that lesson for sure anyway we are trying to address the short term i.e three years

PROJECT DONE AND GETTING THE PARK THINGS PROBABLY 2027 PROJECT.

MAYBE ONE UNIT IS JUST BATHROOMS.

THIS LAKE IS STARTING TO LOOK PRETTY GOOD FOR BATHROOMS. SEA FISHING.

WE DON'T WANT ANY BATHROOMS. TIM HAS A FISHING CONCESSION.

Hey, moving on.

All right.

Well, I will be brief because we know we have a whole lot left going on with our fundraising committee. But as you're aware, the city and a group of volunteers has put forth several fundraising efforts, which thus far has raised over $59,000 as per... last month's update from Unlimited Play. And the next event that we have planned is the Route 66 Bingo Night, which has become wildly popular. It's next Wednesday on June 24th at 6 p.m. We had available online. However, it has already filled up and I'm going to reach out to Good News Brewing and see if there's a potential for overflow or something to happen because we still have many people that are not registered that would like to be. So every registration, it's for adults and kids, $25 for adults, $10 for kids. And that comes with 10 bingo cards. So essentially 10 rounds of bingo. and a beverage, alcoholic, non-alcoholic, they will provide. And in addition to just bingo, we will be doing things like a 50-50 raffle, as well as raffling items off provided by Council Member Hlasky, as well as the bingo, like the winning bingo items.

So are people allowed to attend that night to participate in that part of it and not be able to play bingo? So it's just the number, in other words, is the people that can play bingo, like

So the real problem is occupancy. So Good News Brewing has an occupancy of 100. And I'm not positive as to whether that includes staff or not. I'm going to find out those details.

She said it includes staff.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it does. And so, but that's their staff and also our staff. You call a guy a

I'm pretty sure you can't. I'm pretty sure you can't.

Your area.

And so I don't know if maybe. I do think those outdoor tables on the back, those are like eight person tables. So if not, and I kind of think that the sound is already out there. So there could be another 30 people outside.

They've experienced this dilemma. When I told them that we had already cut off registration, they were truly surprised by how many people we had. um and so yeah and I know that they also can do events outdoors because they'll do like cornhole tournaments that you can also do for as a fundraising activity and so it is possible to do it outdoors and I looked at the weather for next Wednesday it doesn't look bad it looks cloudy and like 83 I think um and so I just wonder I don't know there might be a solution like closing it to the public because people go my son works there temporarily while he's waiting for his real job to start and and

Can you call bingo?

Once a night. And that's what I'm wondering, like if the public just comes, are they going to say, they don't work with those? No. So people can still come. You have to pay to get your bingo card.

You can still get $100 off your card. If the crowd's really big, they're 50 bucks a piece. Right.

Yes. Council Member Backert is our bingo caller for the night. So we're very excited that he's going to be.

Absolutely. Absolutely. So, yeah, he volunteered to act as the emcee for the event. And they do have a speaker, but I'm not sure it'll be necessary. But yeah, so our attendance fees thus far have raised $1,750 on top of the 59,000 that Unlimited Play has tracked. And then we also have a 50-50 raffle and then a couple items to be raffled there. And so there will still be additional funds coming in. And at the event, the city will, as always, provide the QR codes and things, you know, advertising the actual park itself and other sponsorship of like equipment and such. So that if people are interested, they can, they're at least aware of other sponsorship opportunities. And so also additionally, last minute addition to our concert, We have acquired another Taylor Swift guitar. Authenticated, signed by Taylor Swift. And we're going to be selling raffle tickets for that. $5 per ticket, I think, or $5 for $20. And so hopefully that will create a draw. I think it went up on Facebook today, advertising it outside. So that hopefully, you know, we can get more interest in it. So... In summary, thus far, the city's raised over $60,000 and has had more than 70 individuals or groups sponsor the park, including nine pieces of equipment. We will soon learn if we are rewarded the $50,000 T-Mobile grant. And if we are, that'll be $110,000 of the $500,000 goal that we were trying to achieve. So that being said, this is going to be the last of the city's real fundraising efforts. However, we will continue to advertise it. We will continue to have our QR codes. We will continue to encourage people. But it will be the last city-sponsored fundraiser. Businesses and individuals are still welcome to do fundraisers on their own and donate the money.

But that being said. More direct conversations. More direct.

Yes, that being said, that is about it for our fundraising activities. And we would like to thank everyone that has contributed and everybody that will contribute in the future. But it's been fun, that's for sure. But I think that our end is wrapping up after this. And if we do happen to be able to get more people in on the bingo fundraising, please email me with if you're interested and or with how many people you might have just so that we can ask good news and see if there's a way to work it out.

But aside from that, that concludes the department's presentation unless you have any further questions. Did you want to go ahead and talk about the naming?

I think that Director Runich is going to handle that.

As you know, at our May meeting, the department presented an option of naming our playground after Hunter Bellew. The young man is a center stage in the ribbon cutting that occurred at Village Green phase one, which mom and dad have been advocates for the playground since day one. And Mitt Bellew has worked tirelessly with our volunteer group Those funds help with advertising and social media post, etc. The committee was supportive of me and asked, though, that we contact the family and see what they thought. And as part of the memorandum that was prepared for tonight, I provided a quote from Ms. Bailey's email that said, the idea of naming a hunter and friends She also offered Hunter's Friendship Village, kind of tied into the village green. And then someone, I remember someone in City Hall said, well, you know, there's Retirement Community in Chesterfield named that. So, but as I say, I think she summed it up perfectly. But I like any and all of them. So whatever is chosen will be such an amazing honor. So tonight you can... Act on either of the two names that was provided by the family. I know that the naming of the playground certainly doesn't have to be rushed, but I would like to take to the July 13th meeting of city council, the fact that we've chosen Hunter as the main focus. If there's any questions, Ms. Ripito talked to her over the telephone. I did it via email. glad to answer what we can. Thank you. Okay, Mr. Rambo.

Yeah, I've said this before. It was a lovely family. It was just wonderful to see how his brother supported him and so on and so forth. I think naming it Hunter and Friends is appropriate and it's going to touch a lot of people. I spoke with Teresa Clark today We kind of jointly decided that Hunter and Friends is a wonderful name, but it needs something, you know, another word that identifies it as a playground and what it is. And we were like Playville and Playtopia and Playworld and Playscape and Playzone and all those kinds. She came up with all of those, by the way. I didn't say, you know, come up with any of them. But I don't think I don't think we need to stay. We need to stay well clear of Hunter uncapitalized because we're favoring the hunting community or just whatever, because it will be controversial. It needs to be Hunter, the capital, you know, the proper name and friends and and something else. And so I'm just throwing it out there. If people disagree, that's fine. Hunter and friends can be okay. But then we're back to the question of Hunter and friends. What the heck is that? And, you know, maybe there's a tagline underneath it, but that gets cumbersome. So that's my thought. I don't have any.

Kind of what we said last month, too, just to recap that, is that this is just for the playground and not for the Village Green. So it's the Hunter and Friends Playground at the Village Green, or it's whatever you want to call it for that part. But it's actually just for the playground piece of the Village Green.

I'd like to be more creative than Hunter and Friends Playground.

Melanie, you're creative about that kind of thing. I don't know that I love the name necessarily, but you know, they have them down in Chesterfield. They have the Miracle Field, which is a very simple concept of what that is.

Something like that.

So, you know, and it's ostensibly for the same, a similar group of people. So you could do Hunter and Friends. Something like 100 Friends Miracle Field, but different words. Yeah, I would maybe try to, you know, I would try to link the Miracle thing just because you have people that are coming to Chesterfield to go play at the Miracle baseball field and to know that there's something, you know, 15 minutes up the road that is similar but different could be a good thing. And they have spent a great deal of time and energy getting the word out on that thing. So whenever you can kind of parlay that stuff without infringing on it, obviously, is a good thing.

Since this goes to city council, we know that there's another eight people that are going to also have ideas on what this should be. Besides Hunter and Friends, should we I mean, do you guys want to try and come up with a few options to take to that group?

Well, ask them ahead of time and they can show up and be prepared or ask, you know, just solicit. Yeah, we can put an email. Yeah, just solicit the input because I think we'll put it on a work session.

Yeah, that's what I meant. And people are going to have comments no matter what at the work session. Give them some time to think about it.

I would, do you need, if we're done talking, if you need a motion to just go ahead and say Hunter and friends with some addition, additional, I don't know that we need to mention the miracle place or whatever it was, but some additional.

Friends with options too.

I think Hunter is the, what you're looking for is naming it after Hunter. And that's my motion with those caveats.

Okay, second to that motion. Okay, Mr. Farmer seconds. Any other conversation before?

Oh, but one of these examples of playground. She has fantasy playground, Hunter and Friends fantasy playground. She just texted me and she also asked, do we need, she's the brains behind the outfit. Do we... need prizes for the bingo night. I was supposed to ask that, but I wasn't looking at my table.

We're actually good on the prizes for the bingo night.

Turning them down, huh?

Okay. All right.

I mean, if we want to bring them, we'll take them.

You know, because I think actually now, I'm thinking about, so the Miracle Field down in Chesterfield, there were a number of Cardinals, Albert Pujols being one, Mike Matheny being going so you know i think putting playground or something i think you need to have playground or something in it um because it's a playground within park which has a big name to begin with which is really define it as a park necessarily either but something like like a hundred hundred and friends fantasy playground because fantasy just adds a whole a whole

measure of it's for kids and it's very cool and so and it's very positive and whatnot something like that and i'm not suggesting fantasy is any better than miracle for this i just think i think i mean from a branding perspective i think you want to make clear that it is an all-inclusive play yes yes yes and it's hard with one word yeah do it one or two any other comments okay if we can um go ahead and

All in favor.

Aye. Any opposed? Any abstain?

Okay.

Thank you.

Motion passed. Okay. Moving on to Wildwood Recreation Programming update. Mr. Vujicic.

Are there any questions? Ms. Rippert told me glad to answer that this time. Yeah. I'm never going on vacation again.

Okay. Anything about facility reservations or event registration?

And Mr. Patel is ready to respond. All over.

Hi, anything else that feels they'd like to make a comment on since we're a few minutes late?

Good journey.

Hey, Mr. Farmer, my second day. Hey, Mr. Farmer, all in favor? Aye. Aye. Aye. Thank you for adjourn. Thank you so much.

I appreciate it.