Master Plan Citizen Oversight Group - 2026 - Regular Meeting

Thank everybody for all your dedication. Most everybody here has been to almost every single meeting, and that's no small task. And because of that, we are at our very last meeting where we have the opportunity to, again, at the very last time, enact recommended policy. So all your recommendations to date, along with recommendations tonight, are going to be archived in the plan and we'll move forward. So thank you very much.

Mayor Garitano. Chair Routon.

Here.

Vice Chair Loyal. Member Avery. Member Baker. Member Beatty. Member Boomer Schlegel. Member Boren. Member Clark.

Here.

Member Clayton.

Here.

Member Coleman.

Here.

Member Depler.

Here.

Member Helfrey. Here.

Here.

Member Homan. Member Rubis. Here. Member Jackson. Member Cohn. Member McCutcheon.

Here.

Member Metz. Member Pick.

Here.

Member Rambo.

Here.

Member Wren.

Here.

And Member Shakin. And we have a quorum.

Thank you very much. At this time, please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance. Thank you.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Any comments on last month's meeting minutes or a motion to approve, please?

I'll make the motion to approve the meeting, the meeting last month.

Debra, we have a second. Thank you very much. Yes, sir. All in favor? Aye. All opposed? Any abstentions?

I abstain.

The motion passes.

Mr. Chair, with your permission, I'll begin. Well, to all the group members, as Chair Routon mentioned, We are anticipating tonight to be our last meeting. As you can easily see, we are on meeting 24, which took approximately 18 months to reach this point. Suffice to say that your attendance and participation has been much appreciated. We've gone through winter storms, spring tornadoes, heat and humidity, the fall colors, kind of started all over again. So we've had a seasonal approach to our update of the master plan. I don't want to make light of your participation. As Chair Routon mentioned, you have been the core group that have kind of carried the load on your back since day one. And suffice to say, Robin, Melanie, Travis, and I can't express our appreciation enough. It is an important process. In some communities, the master plan, the comprehensive plan or the general plan, as it may be called in other locations, is generally a document that sits on the bookcase and is occasionally used when there's a particular need or a special project. Here in Wildwood, Planning and Zoning Commission members and city council members can certainly attest that it's in all of the department's reports. We use the master plan to justify actions. the recommendations of the department. And I know the appointed and elected officials depend on it greatly as well. So your task was very, very important. And we are a community that says we do our planning today or tomorrow. So the master plan is a key cog or component of that planning process. So thank you again. I do want to thank Travis, Robin, and Melanie. Behind the scenes, they did a lot of the heavy lifting that got us to this point. I will note that the treats usually have come from Melanie and making trips to the grocery store. I will thank Ms. Clark for the homemade treats she brought often. Those were especially nice to have. Travis has done an exemplary job managing Zoom. um youtube and all of the social media and things that we post on the website and then robin has been kind of that critical eye regarding the things that have been prepared for your review consideration i would also note that officer fisher now is a planner by osmosis. He's sat in enough meetings. I think he knows planning as well as most in other communities, if not better. So thanks to them for their support. There's a couple of items on tonight's agenda. As you know, at our last meeting, the group approved the survey results as presented by Ms. Ward of Silver Tablet Marketing. We spent a great deal of time kind of analyzing why at the start of the process we received 800 responses and at the conclusion of the process just over 300. I'm sure there's a lot of reasons. I think one that I believe to be a very, very appropriate statement was it was vacation season. A lot of people getting that last time away from their job or home before school starts, et cetera. And then two, the timing. As you know, we are behind schedule based upon past updates. And so we did do an abbreviated time frame for responses to this survey. I wouldn't necessarily say an extra week or two would have changed the numbers greatly, but certainly we were doing our best for you to get the results we could. At the last meeting, there were a couple of comments relating to the survey. Ms. Ward provided responses to those. And unfortunately, I received them after the packet had been sent to you, so I did provide them to you tonight. The supplemental analysis relates to question 19, which had to do with what types of businesses, services, or amenities would you most like to see in Wildwood in the future? The other relationship between years in Wildwood and survey responses. The latter of the two seems to indicate that there's broad support regardless if you're here less than five years or here more than 20 plus years. The natural environment, protecting neighborhoods and property values, the green belt and open space, and then low density development outside town center seem to generate equal levels of support, so to speak, regardless if you're a new resident or you're generational and your family's been here for many, many years. In terms of question 19, There were 234 open-end responses, 163 of them related to food or dining requests. This is information in the report that Ms. Ward provided. As you can see, she did some analysis and broke it down into components and then offered some ideas or thoughts at the conclusion of the tables. So again, if there are questions, certainly I'll do my best along with Melanie and Travis to respond to them. But again, as mentioned by the department, we did conclude the survey discussion and adopted the results for the purposes of proceeding forward tonight. Hopefully that adds a little information to the toolbox for you and from the department's perspective eliminates any concerns about taking final action as will be requested tonight on the narratives, elements and land use. Mr. Chair, again, not being an expert in survey instruments, the three of us will do our best if there's questions.

Any questions on the data provided? I think we're good.

Well, tonight I was able to start with a thank you, but I'll conclude at least the second item on tonight's agenda for action with an apology. Obviously, I brazenly stood at the podium at the last meeting and said we hope to have you the final draft of the document. If you're counting, and I assume some will be, We're missing the title page, the acknowledgments, the table of content, the introduction. That's on the front end only. And then at the back end, the policy advisors and a couple of the attachments. I can certainly stand here and give you explanations of the 15 or 20 different projects the Department of Planning has underway within our town center and rural areas, those including the reserve at Wildwood, the point at Brightleaf, Ashley Grove, Wesley Park, et cetera, et cetera. We also seem to have a spate of failing septics around town that are creating quite a stink. Pun intended. So we've kind of been just a little busy and also sprinkling the back to school party in our Route 66 centennial celebration that Robin and Melanie worked especially hard on. We just didn't get to it. So you have my sincere apologies. However, if you look at those things, the title page, the acknowledgements, table of content, the introduction, and the policy advisors, those really are just who worked on the plan for your benefit. Those are not critical components of the plan itself. And those are not components we spent a great deal of time discussing as we proceeded over the past 18 months. The core of our discussions and the outcome that I'm proud of, and I hope you are too, are the six elements and the conceptual land use categories and the recommendations for changes to at least four of the five properties. Tonight, to benefit you as the reviewers of the documents, The department didn't necessarily put them in the format that may be in terms of the final document. But in each element, you have the approved narrative that was done by vote of the group, majority vote. And then you have the goals, objectives, and policies. The tables that were provided when we did the discussion of each of the elements aren't included. That would have had been the department's commentary, your all's discussion, and then final direction. The department believes that will be part of the master plan as an attachment. I think it's beneficial that our residents, businesses, others know how we got to this point. and can then track the discussions that occurred over the past 18 months to assure you Robin, Melanie, and Travis reviewed these along with myself. We think we've captured everything that you required in terms of changes. We took no liberty with your wording. It is what I believe as you recommended by motion, concurred by second, and an affirmative vote at its conclusion. So tonight, we have the six elements for your consideration. And along with the six elements, we have the conceptual land use categories, the approved changes. As you know, we received a request from the owner of one of the larger parcels of ground in the Wildwood portion of the Chesterfield Valley to allow some flexibility with the types of uses that could be considered there. That is one change. The second change related to the property owned by the boy scouts on valley road and i'll only say it's a change because you all recommended. First. Low density three acre only no change to the non urban residential area category. that the PRD be applied, and that the stub streets in Brentmore Place not be extended. So I want to make sure we didn't change the land use. We qualified it with at least three conditions. The other two relate to Site D, as we call it. And that, too, is on page 7. I couldn't find the page there. Pardon me. In this particular instance, by a majority vote, we recommended that the 4.6 acre site remain non-urban residential area, but again, to allow for some flexibility in terms of the list of uses. These uses generally are found in our workplace district of the town center. And as has been recited by many of you over the course of our discussions, this is the recommendation for future land use. Any recommendation would have to go through eventually if the property wants to utilize it through our Planning and Zoning Commission and City Council. And then finally, Site E was the Pasiglia Nursery, which was a little late in getting to the party. We spent a great deal of time talking about it. We gave them some limited flexibility, but we kind of conditioned that as we talked more to ensure that it would First and foremost, not cause impacts on the surrounding area. And secondly, not lead to problems on the 10 acres across the street and on the northeast corner of Clayton Road and State Route 109. And then finally, Ms. Ripito has spent a great deal of time working on the maps. Ms. Helfried asked that they be part of the plan. So we have the conceptual land use categories map without changes yet. We have the city of Wildwood with the conceptual land use categories map with the changes. We have the fire districts, the dark sky, parks, trails, and green space. The zoning map, I believe, no, excuse me, the watershed map, the zoning map. These are all representations that we had in the community room when we started this process to help our discussion. And if you have questions about the map, I will yield the podium to our expert. Yes, sir.

Will these maps be blown up and be put on board for our next meeting with the public?

Yes. Yes, Ms. Ripito will have them in a larger scale for ease of reading. And they'll be situated around the room. And we can use those as stations for the most part.

Deborah.

Yeah, Joe, just for clarification, the 10 acres across from Basiglias and Lafayette High School, you just mentioned something about that. So do we have it restricted to certain amenities in there or can they come put a gas station up or what's the... As you know, we kind of started with...

the broader discussion and worked our way down to the tip of the funnel, so to speak. And we have an art gallery in conjunction with a coffee shop. So there has to be one before the other. So the art gallery is the dog that wags the tail. We have an event venue of less than 5,000 square feet, which is a small footprint. We have a flower plant store. I think they're doing that right now. I think the most controversial component was the office warehouse facility. And we limited that to 10,000 square feet. But we also said it has to be exclusively used for plant nursery related items, yard care equipment. So it can't be, let's say, an Amazon warehouse or something like that. Open air market, they kind of have that already. educational facilities so they could offer classes in native plantings, invasive removal, things along those lines. And then finally, a child care center, which is a conditional use if granted by the Planning and Zoning Commission in the NU district already. So that was just... You know, there is another use that you could consider if circumstance is justified. But no. No gas stations, no convenience stores, no car washes, no drive-through facilities. For all intents and purposes, through the work of the group, we basically created a circumstance where, first and foremost, there has to be a plant nursery on site with a granted conditional use permit. that plant nursery has to be on a certain amount of acreage, and that plant nursery now has to be limited to maybe, I should say, could be used for these particular activities if approved by the Planning and Zoning Commission and city council.

So the 10 acres across 109, Is it going to follow suit for what we just did for Pasiglia? What can now go in that 10 acres? Because we changed the plan for him. So then what happens to that 10 acres across the highway?

Well, first and foremost, they would have to get a conditional use permit for a plant nursery. And I don't know if that's in the cards because that's... This is all premised on the existing use and adding activities to the existing use. If the existing use goes away, specifically if we were to close the nursery, then these additional uses wouldn't be suitable for the property. These are uses that you all told the department you thought were compatible or could be accessory, so to speak, to the primary use. So the 10 acres across the street, they would need to get a conditional use permit for the city for a plant nursery. And then they would also, in my mind, have to request a master plan change. Because remember, we did these on site-by-site basis. We didn't do it collectively. In the non-urban residential area, if you have 10 acres or greater, this could be considered. We didn't do that. We did it site-by-site. So they'd have to come back and get a master plan change.

But they could put housing on that 10 acres, correct?

Right now they are in the suburban, so they could do maybe eight to nine houses at most because that's the one acre density.

Okay. And then if it's okay with the chair, I got a couple more questions. Sure. And the appendices on the town center map, is there some kind of wording that we can put on there that kind of gives the boundaries because some people like me are not great just looking at the map. I couldn't find streets or anything, and maybe it's just my vision, you know, but if we could give some kind of written explanation as to exactly where town center is, because I think a lot of people think Deerbrook's town center is our entire town center, and it's not.

Yeah, it's confusing because as you come in off of Route 100 and turn south on Taylor Road, you have Deerburgstown Center and Wildwood Town Center on opposing corners. So I think what Ms. Ripito can do is we can either do an insert or pull out on this map to kind of highlight it. And this map shows the red area. Or we can just add the boundary map as a part of the appendices of the town center, which may be the simplest approach.

Yeah, because I couldn't find roads or whatever.

The larger map of just town center shows the streets. The street network actually shows a lot of information that you can't get on this particular map just because of the size of Wildwood.

Okay. I just think there's a lot of confusion as to what town center is.

This is a great opportunity to address that confusion. And that map's simple. We have it made. We'll get it in the appropriate format and go from there.

Thank you so much.

You're welcome. Rob?

Yeah. Hi, Bo. It's...

He had told me that she had been to the winery in Augusta the day before. I must have really made an impression.

Certainly. This is more philosophical. Maybe I'm the only one. So why would Greenbelt, that lake, that possible breeze go straight out through Well, twofold, and I'm going back to 1995, so bear with me.

First and foremost, there was a desire on the group that worked on the original master plan to create a connection, the greenbelt between river and river, Missouri and the Merrimack Rivers. So that's, generally speaking, the reason it makes that curve on the southern end and moves away from the reservation, or excuse me, Greensfelder and Rockwoods Range toward Glencoe.

So because it touches the river, close to Six Flags.

Yeah. And then secondly, this is also the area where Route 109 was to be relocated. And so they were talking about, well, we're going to call it the Greenbelt. It's just an extra layer of protection. So those were the two reasons that were most recited during that process in 95 and the early part of 1996.

It does not mean.

Obviously, in 1995 and 1996, we were hanging on for dear life. And we've come out of the Missouri Supreme Court with a ruling that county has to let the vote occur. And the vote occurred, and no one was sure would Wildwood win or not. It did. And then Buzz Westfall was thinking about he drog his feet. This county council wouldn't certify the election, wouldn't make the appointments. So by the time we got here, it's like we were learning. How about that?

OK. You're welcome. Any more questions, discussions on conceptual land use categories at the end, since we are spending the time on it first, after questions and comments, we will take them all. Vicki.

Thank you, Chair. I just had just a couple questions. I'm sorry, and I circled them in red so I could find them really quickly. Just a second. I didn't find anything wrong. They were just questions for me to make sure I understood what it was. Okay. On the planning element where it says goals, PG-8, the goal is to develop and focus city resources to protect the nine watersheds at Divine Wildwood. And then I guess my question was, What is the policy that we added to support that? That's my first question. Just because I just want to try to make sure that I understand the logic so that when people ask me, I connect like I know what I'm talking about.

Certainly. If you don't mind, I'd kind of like to answer them. I would love for you to.

Yes, sir.

So... Planning goal number eight, develop and focus city resources to protecting nine watersheds that define Wildwood. So if you go to the policies, this is how I interpret it. Policy two, two suburban areas and densities limited to town center. So what we're saying is, in certain areas, One unit per acre is only allowed in town center where we think we have the most favorable conditions for higher density development that should occur there. Policy three says everywhere else it's non-urban. Low density is our best protection of the watersheds.

Okay, thank you.

Dr. Rambo can attest to that. For a long while, we thought Ward 6 was immune to erosion problems caused by storm events. It's not. Fox Creek, I think it was, what, August of 2019, flooded homes along it that weren't in the floodplain. Basically restricted access on the road for an extended period of time. And then the famous, we had the young girl floating in her car in front of LaSalle Springs Middle School. So... Obviously, we've got to keep those basic tenets in place. Kind of going from there, maintain land use and environmental policies to protect the regional park system from erosion and pollution. They are part of the watersheds. So the more we can do to ensure that they're protected, the better off we will be. I think, too, Our other service providers, and I specifically call out the utilities, they seem to think that you have a, and this is debatable, but if you have a set of electrical lines, you can denude the ground below them and you can cut trees away as far as you like. All that does is expose the soil to greater pressure and stress.

So Wildwood first.

And then I think any land use related matter must be reviewed by the Planning and Zoning Commission before the city council can take action. I think using our experts is always a good approach. And then one we added new is that, to me, we talk about noise mitigation. But the plantings, any time we do plantings, we're enhancing the watershed, at least from my perspective. I think there's a number of them. They may not specifically call out a watershed, but they're all intended to basically fit our land use to the characteristics of the property.

Okay. I thank you for that because I think sometimes, at least myself, I look for the specific words, right, when I'm perusing things. And so I needed that explanation. The next thing that I was going to ask you about was, let's see here, this, oh, here, yeah, let's, you just kind of touched on it, community service elements. And it is under the goals and it's number seven and it's a new one. It says protect the city's assets from damage by other holders of rights through easements, but not ownership as part of wildwoods environmental stewardship efforts. So that kind of piggybacks on what we just said. I would agree. I would think. The reason that I marked that was because I'm just curious, is that where. as these new internet companies are coming through and digging up everybody's yards and leaving massive holes and things, that's where that would come into play.

Yes, and very much so. We've had, obviously, AT&T and a couple of other fiber providers just kind of descend on what I would consider areas already adequately serve and install additional improvements They've really created a problem for the homeowners in the city. And it's done, for the most part, I think, somewhat haphazardly. And then when we were doing the Rural Internet Project, Melanie was out with one of Spectrum's teams on Rocky Ridge, which is appropriately named. And we were getting all kinds of complaints. And I mean, if you want to elaborate, please. OK. So yes, it's just like the crews aren't local generally. The oversight is minimal and it's either an international or national conglomerate. And what we care about in Wildwood, they don't see as a problem because it affects their bottom line. And what we're saying is you're going to have to play by our rules when you're in town.

So where's the teeth for that? And the reason I ask is because, you know, socket fiber or AT&T went through my neighborhood and I had a lot of people making a lot of comments and actually our neighborhood, they didn't do terribly bad from what I saw from other neighborhoods. So where would, where would that give, I guess, if somebody called and said, look what they're doing, where could we tell them to go and look for teeth for that?

Well, from my perspective, I'll start at the top of the spear and say that if we were to stop work and say, you're not following the regulations of the city and the conditions of the grading permit, and that entity were to say, well, if you don't let us work, we're going to litigate. When Rick Brown or Melanie Ripito or Travis Newberry, Robin Kieferi are on the stand, And our attorney says, well, what gives you that justification? Well, our master plan does. Here's what it says. We planned it. We've enunciated it. We've adopted it. And we're following it. We hope a judge or jury will say, didn't you know that? Ignorance isn't an exception to the law. So we're on solid ground is my point.

Excellent. Okay. And then there was one more thing, and it was on the, thank you for asking that, by the way. And then the last one was transportation element. And it is, now I'm going to have to, it was the very last thing, and it was under policies, and it was TP9. Let me see what it says here. Okay. Okay. And so I think this is kind of the same thing. It's kind of the same thing, just in a different area so that people know that that has to be complied.

Yes.

Okay.

There may be some reputation, but remember each element is kind of on a standalone basis. Now, we've talked about trying to create those interrelationships. And Travis is working with some of the AI models to see if we can figure all that out. It's a task. We haven't had time to do it. If we get there, we'll certainly let you know what we think are all the interrelationships between the six elements and all of the components of them. I don't think it's, at least from the perspective of the department, inappropriate to repeat things under different elements when we particularly feel strong about them.

Okay, well, I don't have a problem with overlap. And so that's the last of my questions. I just would like to say a couple things really quickly. First of all, I'd like to say thank you for everything that you all have done for all of this. And I would like to say thank you for all of you because I've learned a lot being on this. So that's it.

Okay, for the benefit of the group and stay a little bit more organized, I'd like to make a recommendation. I know we have a lot of questions about a lot of different elements, but if we could address one element at a time, then take a vote on that element before we move to the next, then we're not bouncing all over the place, but that may help. As I stated earlier, if we could start with the conceptual land use categories, we answered a number of questions there. Do we have any more questions or are we ready for a motion? Go ahead. And move forward. Michael, voice vote. All in favor? Aye. All opposed? Any abstentions? The motion passes. Thank you.

Thank you.

Joe, what would be your next target?

The environmental element will start at the beginning of the document. This was the first element we did in our infancy as a group. In many ways, it's the first element because in 1995, that was what was under attack. And so if there are any comments or questions regarding the narrative, goals, objectives, and policies, we'll be glad to try to answer them. If not, we would respectfully request Mr. Chair motion and second and voice vote to adopt.

Teresa.

Thank you, Chair. My question is, and I think this will pertain to all of them, including the environmental, but we found the issue with the one wording already that Dr. Rambo found. Can we or do we need to even give a vote for allowing the department, and probably Melanie will be working on this specifically, if she finds something like that, not to have to keep the wording that we have come up with. If there is a problem with that wording, make it more professional, not change the meaning at all, but do we need to... give you that, Mr. Vernon, we need to vote on allowing you to change it if you see, if you deem it necessary?

Well, certainly I appreciate that, Ms. Clark, because as I noted, we tried to recite the goals, objectives, and policies as voted on by the group. Is there, as we go through it and we get it in final form before the open house and the public hearing, and we see something that is a problem, certainly it would be nice to address it and we can identify it for you all so that you know. I would like, if we notice punctuation, grammar, spelling, those things to have that latitude to alter that. I'm a little more reticent to move forward with changing what you've done. The commission has that authority, and certainly I prefer to ask them to say the wording here is a little disjoint. The group did it in a collective sense. The department recited it, thinking it had it right, but we think... This is what they intended, and we've reviewed the videos. We've looked at the minutes. I think I'd rather have the commission do it than us as the Department of Planning.

Other than punctuation or grammar.

Yeah, there's just a lot of words here, and certainly the four of us did the best we could.

So punctuation and grammar, you guys have full authority. We give you that authority. Do you need a vote or not?

I prefer a vote just because we're altering something you've acted upon. And Ms. Clark, I do appreciate the sentiment, but I just think you've worked so hard to get to this point. And a couple of words changes might not be what you all had in mind.

If I could follow up. One of the things that I have noticed that more than You know, the punctuation, it's always something that you, you know, you miss one thing or you add an S when it shouldn't be there at the end of a word or something. But I'm, and you think it should go to the commission, as I understand, for something like the goals to be in a standardized form of presentation. So we have some that start out with Um, like, environmental, we started out with wild woods, unique environment needs to be preserved and protected. Which may be as a goal could be stated. Preserve and protect wild with unique environment so that they're all stated as a goal and you are you. Saying that we need the commission for that type of thing, too, or it's not changing even the words. It's just changing the order so that it makes it into. So they're all in the same form.

Start with maybe an action verb versus... Joe, I'm thinking that as long, to Teresa's point, as long as the meaning is not changed, we should give them the ability to manipulate it in a way that it makes sense.

Well, certainly we would alter them to make them grammatically correct, so to speak, but we've never changed the content. That's not our intent.

So, Teresa, would you like to make a motion, please?

I will make a motion that we open up the changes in the wording, the changes in the grammar and punctuation and order of standardized form in goals, objectives, and policies to the department as they deem it necessary, as long as the meaning does not change.

Do we have a second? Rob? All in favor? Aye. All opposed? Any abstentions? The motion passed.

Thank you.

Moving on, Joe, with environment.

Yes, again, other than creating a consistent format in terms of a proactive verb at the start, upgrade, promote, those kinds of things, we believe the environmental element is ready for your final action.

Yeah, where did you have a question? You're good.

Not at this point, but I'll make the motion to accept the environmental element as presented.

Do we have a second? Vicky seconds. All in favor? Aye. All opposed? Abstentions? Motion passes.

Thank you. Mr. Chair, the next element is the planning element. Again, as with the first, the department believes it's captured the intent and content of your action relative to the set of goals, objectives, and policies. Obviously, planning is near and dear to the heart of the Department of Planning. And I do want to commend you for some of the additional items that have been added relative to this particular element, particularly the perimeter plannings, the sound mitigation, and the policy section. Moving into the objectives, we talk about, pardon me, we talk about the historic preservation plan that was recently adopted. And then finally, just the things we did to ensure that our plans are updated in appropriate timeframes. We also put into this the climate resiliency that we need to start thinking about as we witness wildfires and tornadoes and hurricanes and heat and drought.

It's really, I thought you did a wonderful job.

And as the department said in the first, we believe it's in the appropriate form for final action tonight.

Questions, comments on the planning?

Well, I would like to say that I really like the fact that we, on goal number five, address the entire life cycle of solar panels from beginning to end, instead of just dumping that off. So I thought that was very good, and I'm glad it's in there. And I make a motion to approve the planning element.

Jim seconds. All in favor? Aye. All opposed? Abstentions? Motion passes. Thank you, Vicki. Yes, Jim.

Mr. Rubis, the microphone. Thank you.

One of the things that I noticed and I'm very appreciative of is all the text that precedes the goals. I think that really sets up the story so that the goals, policies, and objectives all make sense. Thank you. Creative writing is good.

Thank you. Mr. Chair, the next item is community services element. Just a couple of key points here. This is where we also created the policy for accessibility, ensuring that private and public facilities are accessible to all age groups, abilities, et cetera. We also reinforced in our 30th year that we continue what was started in 1995, and that's using private contractors for many of our services and retain a small staff to basically be fiscally efficient. We also talked about retaining St. Louis County Police Department for our services in crime prevention. And so again, things that may not be flashy but things that have made wildwood success for 30 years and new things to make it even better mr chair the department again believes the community service element is in the appropriate form for final consideration tonight questions comments theresa yeah in the in in the narrative um on the list

That list called. Upgrades and improvements.

Yes, ma'am.

And did we talk about adding in coffee with the mayor on that?

I don't remember, but I would defer to Melanie and Travis if there was a reference. It's certainly something that can be added as part of the motion to approve the element. And I think what Ms. Clark is describing is just the improved communication through the Coffee with the Mayor, Facebook, excuse me, YouTube, Zoom, the recording of all of our meetings. It's certainly something that I think Wildwood should be proud of. And it was all started by Mayor Boland for the most part.

Would, Teresa, would it be maybe open that up a little bit and talk about ease of communication through senior staff? Something that infects everybody, not just that.

Well, maybe we could do that with an example being coffee with the mayor. And I don't know if COVID.

I'm sorry, but I'm throwing on something. I'm sorry.

Yeah, there was a fair amount of effort put in to be working our website sort of from top to bottom. I mean, it's much more useful and has lots more information. And I think a concrete statement to the effect that we should continue that effort, I think is really important.

Thanks. So if I could follow up. Along with that, is there any way we could add in just a small graph that shows the population y-axis versus the date x-axis? down, let's see, then the major challenges facing the city of Wildwood, I think it would be at a glance, very eye opening, as well as a paragraph or just a couple of sentences to explain what the pool tax, how it works, because I get that question all the time. I read about cool tax also but it doesn't make it simple enough just to say this is what taxes.

Yes, ma'am.

To treat that can I ask a question about the. I guess it's kind of directed to you first of that number 5 on that list for says maintain to provide writing strategic updates to the city's website right. in addition to publishing the Wildwood Gazette and weekly newsletter, maybe could we put at the beginning of that, It consistently working to increase communication with the citizens of Wildwood. And then the next sentence would be maintain blah, blah, blah, blah. And then maybe in other examples include coffee with the mayor. And that would kind of encompass everything as a communication thing to show that we've done the website. We have the communication, we have the newsletter. And so it would maintain its spot in that. But it would be, it would show that that's one of the things that we do that wouldn't then lock them into saying that we have to have a coffee with the mayor going forward. But it would say, this is one of the things that we're doing to kind of get it out there for you. Because quite honestly, Mayor Garitano is an amazing communicator. I mean, he's done a fantastic job of communicating consistently. So I think that's, maybe we could just, would that be okay with you if we kind of preface it with we're constantly working to increase communication?

I'm yeah, I'm fine with putting it in there in any way, shape or form just to show. And it's talking about the upgrades and improvements we've made. And one of those over the last 10 years was. implementing and i i guess it was jim um boland that implemented the coffee with the mayor so that is one of the um one of the big things that is is um hopeful in the city um that so yeah that change is fine using the word maintained in this list or continued um to me just strikes me wrong because it's about upgrades and improvements and not something that we just are an ongoing thing. So maybe a wording on those things as well so that it's not, so it tells that we have improved that communication and that's what we did to improve it. And now the goals tell us what we're going to do in the next.

But yeah, I'm fine with that. And then what was the what did you want to do under major challenges facing the city what was what were the 2 things you mentioned, I'm sorry you said a graph of something what was the other one.

A graph a touch a graph it talks about. How are. How the about the pool tax after that list and then it goes into major challenges facing the city of wild but 2005 to 2025 and then 1, 2, 3, But 3 paragraphs down it starts talking about the full tax and. How that affects us and we, if we had a graph that showed the population versus the. Year, we could see how it had grow it grew and how it. Didn't grow and it went down this last since. Just to show we're not overpopulating the city. And just to give people an idea, it might also be a place to put a link in for all the cities that are involved in that full pack. Because that's another question. Well, who else is involved in the full pack? Just a thought. And if that's not something you want to put in this, that's okay with me.

Okay. Let's kind of split the baby. Rob, what was your first recommendation?

It was the notion that we were talking about what we've done, but we want to keep that.

So your motion is?

I didn't say it.

Well, are you ready to make a motion and we'll address your comment? Well, we're going to do it. We're going to have about three. You're the first.

Second?

I'll second that. All in favor?

Aye.

Theresa? A motion to incorporate additional information regarding the full tax.

And graph.

Yes, so I recommend your motion.

Very brief.

Dr.

Certainly, I think it's important to note as part of the pool tax that it includes the unincorporated county, Florissant, Webster Groves. Some of the larger municipalities in the region depend on the pool tax just like us, including Maryland Heights and Chesterfield to a degree, but they've changed the legislation to favor them over others.

Thank you. Well, then that would be added to my motion to add that as well. And I think that Baldwin already has that list with the percentages.

So Cindy and Deborah, do your comments pertain to Teresa's motion? They do. Okay.

I mean, I wanted to add. I see the benefit of having that information included. I don't feel like it should be part of this particular document, but I like the idea of having like a link that can be ever changing as those communities that are involved might come or go over the next 10 years and not necessarily have it as a graph or something in here, but have it as a document link that can be updated as needed.

On the website, for instance. On the website, yes. Deborah.

Yeah, I have the idea

Rob. Oh. Got it.

If we don't get something figured out and the folks keep revisiting the pool tax at the state level and it gets yanked away from us or reduced or whatever, And so part of this part of Teresa's motion. Probably ought to consider the reality that we, um, that we have, uh, um, X population and only Y revenues, which are quite flat. And that does seem to be a significant threat to the city. And maybe we don't talk in dollar amounts or something like that, but if we have 35,000 people. And we used to make X amount. on taxes every year and we're only making x plus one percent and uh inflation has been you know 20 we're already in trouble and so i think there needs to be something in the plan that says this is a particular this is a threat to us because otherwise it's not something top of mind for a lot of folks and reese is trying to just kind of get to understand you know that particular um uh particularly inside issues and i think financial uh um our financial situation is the key to that so i don't know how to make that into a motion or if it even is appropriate there's a couple people that well let's keep going maybe we'll have five when we're done deborah

Yeah, I think they sum that up very well in this document. It says, also the state and other municipal leaders questions in the legislature about how pooled sale tax revenues are distributed as some participants . Then it goes into other details. So I think that's already concisely in this document, what I heard you say.

except it doesn't say that Wildwood has no sales tax to speak of and no property tax at all. And everybody, the first thing they say to me as a council member is, I pay all these taxes to Wildwood. Well, no, you don't pay. And if, again, if the full tax goes away, we're in trouble. And a lot of folks don't know that or recognize it. And I'm trying to, you know, kind of nail a stake in the ground. That's all.

But... Yeah, that's not part of our, it's part of the council's concern.

It's part of our development concern.

It's important to communicate that to residents, but that is not something I think that needs to be put in this document. This document is going to be the major policy for going forward for the city. And so to put something like that in here, in more detail, I think would be more confusing than relevant. And I think we just need to mention that if somebody really wants information and wants to understand it, you know, they can go to the website or elsewhere to get that detailed explanation. I think, and here it just needs to be noted, and it is. I think it's pretty concise and gives the idea of what the pull tax is. And what it is right this minute, next year, it may be something else. So I think we need to keep it very general.

Let me ask Joe, do you have an opinion on that, Joe? Because I think it's a major challenge facing the city and we need to be frank and upfront with folks.

But if it's not appropriate for this document, then I'll throw my- Well, I'll jump right in, Joe, and cut you off. I think I just did. This plan is a roadmap of solutions. So coming up with a bunch of issues that we don't have an answer for. I don't think it's anybody. More of a personal opinion. More of a communication through the website and an understanding and a financial page gets us to exactly where you want to go. But yeah, we don't have any money. We don't know where we're going to get the money. And what's that going to look like in the plan?

Yeah.

So this needs to be a little bit rosier document and I understand that, um, I'm as a council member, my. The biggest complaint that I hear is the disconnect between. The taxes that people think they're paying and where they actually go and I was trying to solve that in this document. Maybe that's not the right.

All right. Yes, ma'am. Can I ask a question? Sure. Mr. does this document is going to have an appendix.

Yes, ma'am.

Is it going to have a place for definitions?

Yes, ma'am.

Then maybe where it says pull text, you could put a little asterisk and say see appendix. And then in the appendix, it could say whatever you want it to say is a descriptor and then see our website. And then it could be there. I think that you did a very good job of trying to explain the major challenge. As a matter of fact, everything that's here is related to the money is the major challenge. And it's supposed to be a 10 year document. I think the city did a very good job of trying to explain a whole bunch of stuff in a short amount of time. And I just don't feel that you can give a tax class. Or a revenue class in. three paragraphs. And I don't disagree with you. I get people all the time who say, you know, we pay all these taxes. They're not informed. And this isn't the place to educate them. So I'm going to make a motion that we approve this document as written with...

I think there is a motion.

Can we... Could you tell us what the motion is again, then, please?

Was that seconded?

Okay.

We have two motions, but it doesn't look like either one have a second.

Can you tell what the motions are, please?

Yes, maybe. So Dr. Rambo made a motion to ensure that it says... continuous improvements with communication rather than just maintain um and uh member clark uh made a motion to add some simple information about the pool tax add graphs and um add all the cities uh that are involved in the pool tax and those are the two motions if we uh you if we don't get a second for those then what is the next step mr vintage

Well, as you know, there are some terms in the document that I think need to be defined one we've talked about just what is town center what are its boundaries. And so we'll do a description and link it to the map we've been to find arterial I think it probably should go in as an attachment I don't know if it needs to be part of the element. watershed. A lot of people don't know what a watershed is. And so from the perspective of DARPA, we're not going to add a great number of definitions. We're probably going to add enough that it gives a clearer picture why we spent time talking about watersheds or why we spent time talking about the pool tax. And as part of that, I think it's appropriate to work in there that we don't have a property tax somewhere along the line in that definition. Yeah, you know, in the context could be it was, you know, this is a sales tax distribution is the lifeline to the city in many ways, because we don't have a property tax.

Right. So you kind of say that in there. So are you suggesting to add more into this or are you suggesting to add it as a definition?

Definition. Definition.

So that's what I would like for you to do, but that's just the world according to me. And so because I agree with what they're saying, I think there's a better way to put it in there. And so we have two motions on the floor. And so if we don't get a second to those, what's the protocol here?

Well, I think the protocol would be to approve the community services element as presented, but to define certain terms in the elements, such as pool tax, in the appendices.

So I could make that motion now, and then we have three motions on the floor?

I think we need to work back and start with Ms. Clark's motion and see if we have a second.

And actually, Teresa's got some additional input before we go on.

First, I will second Dr. Rambo's motion. And about second motion, let me withdraw that and restate it to, instead of adding it in this, to have it referred to the definitions and I would add abbreviations. Definitions and abbreviations.

Sure.

PRD. Let's go ahead, Rob, with your first one. If you want to restate it, we'll take a vote.

It is. In essence, it is to not only continue our communication programs, but to continually improve such programs.

Perfect.

And Teresa seconded. All in favor? Aye. Aye. All opposed? Abstains? Motion passes. Teresa, your motion.

Was that we add to our terms and abbreviations, definitions and abbreviations, whatever you want to call it. We add to it the school tax, and into the verbiage to check with the, to see that document.

So I think the crux of this particular discussion and the pertaining vote that's coming up is, is it defined enough already as written or should we modify it? Is that fair? Teresa.

I'm sorry, would you repeat that?

I said, so this whole discussion and your motion basically says, do we leave the document the way it is because we feel it already describes that particular subject? enough or do we modify it with your additions? So it's either one or the other, correct?

No, no. Her motion is that we add to the definitions an explanation of pool tax. And so I would second that motion. And can I also say in any other definitions that the city deems needed?

Sure, I'll add that to the motion.

Thank you.

Then I will second that motion.

Great. Thanks, Teresa. All in favor? Aye. All opposed? Abstains? Motion passes.

So Mr. Chair, the department would revise its request. The department would respectfully request action on the community services element as amended.

Second that motion.

All in favor?

Aye.

All opposed? Abstains? The motion passes. Thank you.

Mr. Chair, the next element is transportation. And as you know, we gave you a bit of a history lesson about save the green belt, stop the outer belt. And that was the seed that started the city. Also, in this particular element, we did spend a great deal of time talking about arterial roads, both those that have a north-south or south-north direction and an east-west or west-east direction. Mr. Brown of our Department of Public Works, the director, was very integral in this. And as you know, we added some additional streets. We updated a whole lot of streets to reflect the improvements that have occurred just in 10 years. So a lot was done here. The transportation element also contains what I think is very important and lessons we've learned over the last 10 years with the Missouri Department of Transportation. Wildwood first. Let's spend our money on our roads. Mr. Chair, I would respectfully request a motion and second and voice vote to adopt the transportation element. Teresa.

I would would make that motion with two small additions. In the last paragraph of the narrative, we talk about the sustainability efforts and under the sentence says, this effort depends on appropriately designed and constructed ramp information signage safety enhancements, such as roadway striping, and then visible and audible pedestrian devices. I would add in there visible, audible, and tactile pedestrian devices. And in the paragraph before, it talks about The future is brighter due to the past efforts and need to continue in regard to offer alternatives to gasoline driven vehicles. It says vehicle, but vehicles, um, I would, um, change that gasoline driven to internal combustion engines because we don't, I mean, not all maybe diesel, alcohol. And that would be my changes and my motion.

Yes, sir. Yeah. Does the prior motion to give them the latitude to do editing changes, does that follow all of the elements you're voting on, or do we need to make that? Okay. Okay, thank you. That's all.

So we have a motion. Do we have a second or question? I will second the motion. Okay. The motion is to accept with Teresa's addition. Sorry. Teresa.

To accept as is with the additions of adding in the word tactile and changing gasoline driven to internal combustion engine.

You okay? All in favor? Aye. All opposed? Abstentions? Motion passes.

Thank you. Mr. Chair, the fifth of six elements is the open space and recreation element. Again, I think we spent a great deal of time talking about the successes of the city over the past 10 years, as well as what we've just talked about, declining revenues or flattening revenues and the cost and expenditures rising relative to all daily services the city provides to its residents, businesses, and others. In this particular element, we do coincide or reflect the strategic plan that was approved by city council in 2021, and that it identifies that we are to enhance existing green spaces, but precludes future green spaces until revenue source is defined. Mr. Chair, we're available for any questions or comments. Thank you.

Well, the only thing that I would ask is that since we're talking about economics, someplace in here, maybe you could put a little asterisk and refer them to the pool tax place that we talked about earlier. That's a crossover. And then I would just make a motion to approve this element.

All in favor? Aye. All opposed? Aye. Do you have a question before we vote?

Yes. Yes. It was just a long time.

couldn't agree more with that, but is that adequate to move forward the discussions on a potential park and storm water sales tax? Joe, I guess I'm asking that question.

Well, as you can see, that particular goal's been in place for 20 years.

Yeah, yeah, right. That's exactly why I'm asking that.

And we've yet to solve that particular matter. We tried in 2008, and the voters rejected the park and stormwater sales tax. There is renewed effort in that regard as we face the declining situation in terms of revenues. Again, as a general document, I think it adds clarity and it doesn't limit us just to a single source.

So the parks will continue to decline if we don't get an infusion of cash and the watershed problem is going to get lots worse. That's just my perspective from sitting on the council for a number of years. And I would like to have us have a little bit more urgency associated with

And again, maybe the group is best to tell the department, is it as specific as a policy that a park and stormwater sales tax initiative be placed on the ballot in no less than four years, five years? I just don't know how to, I don't want to put a timeline on city council And City Council understands the urgency more so every day, I think.

Yeah, that is too specific, I believe, but I would like to add some urgency to that OSRT number three, but maybe that's not possible. Does anybody else have any thoughts on that matter?

I have a question. Go ahead. Just out of curiosity, do we see any of the money from that conservation sales tax for our parks that got passed in Missouri?

No, ma'am. Now, saying that, Missouri Department of Conservation does offer some grant programs. I'm sure part of that sales tax funds those grant programs. Those programs are competitive. We've been successful in several instances. But no, there is no sharing of that collection. like Great Rivers Greenway divides that pool of money between municipalities, the county and their endeavors. Cindy.

Yeah, I just wanted to say to the point, like we do have objectives here, like Number 4, funding mechanisms, along with conservation, easements, development incentives and donation opportunities for. Blah, blah, blah should be defined, established, created and maintained. I mean, I think it, we, I think we went further here than. Original and I feel like. I don't think we can be so specific in here about, you know, a. you know, putting something on the ballot within four years or something like that. But I think, you know, we could beef this up a little bit, but I think we have some of this already in here for objectives, not necessarily in goals. But if you don't think that's sufficient, you know, we can keep discussing.

It's not up to me. I want to see it funded. I'd see the parks funded myself. But if it's better done, you know, elsewhere, it's just to Joe's point, it's been in there for years.

Right.

Okay. This may apply to other areas also, but maybe we should, rather than just saying permanent funding sources, investigate new funding sources to improve the maintenance of the facilities. we were talking about number three and, you know, we refer to permanent funding sources, but maybe we should also investigate new funding sources rather than saying, putting something on, on the ballot in five years.

And again, I'm just using that as an example that kind of spurred the discussion. So it wouldn't, I don't believe that was all of your intents. I'm not. Deborah.

Yeah, I think it's fine the way it is. And we mentioned other sections. I think, no offense, Rob, because you're a council person. And I think sometimes you're taking the viewpoint of a council person. And some of these things are things that need to be dealt with in council or in subcommittees. The particulars, the nitty gritties of it. And I think, I mean, again, you know, this is a plan and how we're going to move forward. And if we get too specific, then we're going to tie ourselves to things that may not be appropriate, that the general description is much better, and then we can actually move forward with what we need to at what point in time.

Rob?

Yeah, so I defer to the group wisdom on that point. Deb's right in one sense but the fact is the the toughest thing to deal with as a council person for me is people not knowing what's really going on it's just it's just just constant problem and i look for ways to educate population that this is the right place that's great but um my what i was going to do is just this is a very much more neutral topic. In the 30s, all of the white-tailed deer were gone from Missouri because of commercial hunting. And so Missouri, in its wisdom, voted for a half-cent sales tax. And it's supposed to be renewed every decade. And every decade, we have renewed it. And that's what funds the conservation department. All of it goes to Missouri Department of Conservation, which is a nation leader from that perspective. We support them, and they have a permanent source of funding. And so that's where that money goes. It goes into the conservation department. It doesn't get parsed out to communities and so on and so forth. There's a lot more to say about that, but I just wanted to make sure. You were curious, Vicki, and so there you go again.

And I think, too, that from a funding perspective, and I really like Mike's input on, hey, let's look at creative ways to fund some of these things we're talking about. But I don't see this team's responsibility as a role for funding. raising our hand and saying, City Council, go get a 10% sales tax. That's not our role. And at some point when the City Council is going through the budget, we've got to stand up and put our big boy pants on and pass that out. Is that fair?

Yeah. Okay. Point taken. No, no. You're I'm on the edge of what's appropriate for this document, but I can't get in there in it.

If it can help, sure.

Vicki, you want to restate? I have no idea what I said. And don't tell Rich that I said that. Could you tell me what I said, Melanie, please? I'm sure it was brilliant. think it was just to approve wasn't it yeah it was sorry it was uh to approve but you also wanted the addition of um the language to see the tax uh the pool tax definition a little asterisk or something in there and tie the pool tax into this you know hey go look at that in this too definitions yes okay that's my motion and do we have a second we did have a second didn't we didn't he didn't yeah yes uh member mccutchen seconded it

Teresa, before you go.

If I could amend that with one more addition to somewhere in this to mention the partner park, because that has been given to us in the last 10 years and it has started. And in the next 10 years, we want to sometime hopefully work on that.

Joe doesn't belong because there's 10 different things we could put in there. And one of which is partnered park. One is Route 66 park. There's probably three or four other things. Does that detail belong here?

From the department's perspective, Portner Park is a little different than every other because it was a donation. And it was a donation of a pretty substantial size. And so I think it could be referenced in the discussion about donations and acquisitions and conservation easements to provide a current example. And so the department wouldn't object to adding it in that context to help us understand when you get donations, It's just not, let's see, free and clear because eventually you're going to maintain it, you're going to develop it, and then there's more maintenance. So I think there's context there.

Debra?

Well, if we're going to go on donations, then we'll need to put the all-inclusive playground in there because it's being funded through donations.

Yes, so certainly.

But my perspective is that again would be something as an appendix and not something as part of the document.

Well, we've identified all the city parks as part of our mapping exercise. So again, it's really up to the group. We can work it in within the context of a gold objective or policy or all. But I think it does give some context that donations are free, so to speak.

So where would you suggest putting that in, Mr. Greenwich, if you could point it out?

I was looking at policy number one, encourage the purchase or donation. And I think there's just some context there.

Yeah, but if the policy is to encourage the purchase or donation, then what would you say? As in this park?

No, that's not correct. My apologies. I was looking at something else I thought.

I just.

Bear with me. Again, my apologies. I may have been in the objectives. Yes. So it may be that policy number five as defined by Dr. Rambo.

Okay. I just don't see why that park would be specified in there because wasn't that park given to us, that land was given to us for a specific use or am I conflating that with something else?

Well, the donation by Ms. Yost had specific requirements associated with it, so it is. Not only do we not have a free hand, so to speak, but it was given to the city at no charge, but we have a million-dollar master plan we'd like to develop on it. So again, if you use it in terms of context, not specifically calling it out for special attention, but the context of what you need to think of when a donation is offered.

I don't know. I would love for somebody else to weigh in on this. I don't see that it makes a difference.

Real quick. I'm going to agree with Vicki. The text as is already describes what we're trying to do. That's my opinion. Debra?

Yeah, I asked to call the question to take a vote on Vicki's motion.

With or without Teresa's input?

I would say without the addition, just as the original motion. Okay.

All in favor? Aye. All opposed? Aye. Any abstentions? The motion passes. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Chair, last but not least, element six is the economic development element. And as you all recall from our discussion, this is the newest element in the plan. The first five elements were there in 1996 and are retained in 2026. This particular element was added in 2016. And as you can see on page one, under the 10-year achievements subcategory, a lot has happened. I think most important in this particular element is the fact that The bold, I think we discussed most and had the greatest consensus is retaining existing businesses is always the top priority, trying to foster new businesses. What you have is the core. Those are the people you want to keep. You want to ensure that they are successful versus attending trade shows and trying to bring businesses here. Obviously, a lot of what we... received in terms of resident input in the first and second surveys talked about getting more development in town center and particularly some types of businesses, restaurants, retail services, et cetera. I think for the most part, The only other comment I have on this particular item was just the support of the Wildwood portion of the Chesterfield Valley and what we did with the conceptual land use category discussion for that particular 200 plus acres. I think from the perspective of the department, I think we've done an excellent job of getting to the core of those issues and hopefully seeing additional economic development in the city of Wildwood.

So I'd like the team's input on this, and it may be too finite, but we always hear from everybody how much open real estate we have, how much open land for sale we have, as an example. And would it be beneficial to develop and maintain a economic one-page development scorecard? And does it belong here, or is that too much detail? I'd like some input on that.

Whether to find what you're talking

A one-page document that anybody can look at that says we've got 650 retail spaces and 625 are full. We've got an occupancy rate of X percent. We've got an open amount of floor space of X amount. Square footage, something that we can look at. It would be a report card on the health of our current business.

So Vicki was first, but I had it.

Well, I don't think this is the place for that, but there's in here, it says under objectives number six, maintain the city's economic development guide. And so maybe that's something that could go into the guide.

Right.

Okay. So, but in this, I don't think it needs to go in this document, but, but I do think that there should be some place in there for a link to the pool tax as a conversation part of economic development. am i consistent um i just think that someplace in there you know like where it says investment strategies need to meet goal number six need to be fiduciary requirements of state statute while offering highest returns to the city and you can put an asterisk for pool tax or whatever but i think that since we're talking about economic development and people say well then we have a little note so But I think in answer to Dan's thing, I think that that's a great idea, but I think probably that belongs more in the economic development guide stuff. Yeah. Thank you. I think you're right.

Thanks.

Well, if there's no objection, and pardon me, we can add to the definition section the economic development guide and provide the link as part of that definition because it is on our website.

Yeah, this may be on the fringe again, but it's benign this time. We had an econ development director, sole focus was doing economic development, and it was a wonderful thing. Now we have combined that position with some communication functions and so on and so forth, and it may have sort of fallen by the wayside. And this, again, may not be the right place to mention that, but I wonder if we should say something. I didn't see anything in there about how we approach economic development. Maybe that's an appropriate addition is to ensure that it's a legitimate, distinct function. Is that appropriate or not?

I would like to hear from these ladies that have this. What do you all think about this one? I just want to know, because you are business owners within the city of Wildwood, what are your thoughts on this economic development element? Are you good with it? Do you think there's something that needs to be added or taken out? I mean, not only are you citizens, you also are business owners. So I would think you would have a great opinion.

First, let me say something as I've sat here and thought. and over this period of time how unqualified i was to become part of this group because i've never been on council i'm not part of planning and zoning i didn't know what i didn't know when i came here so really i just am from the perspective of being a resident and operating a business um i don't know i don't know that i can answer that specifically obviously i've read through it and it seems complete to me But I am humbled by how much I just didn't know coming in.

Well, that's how I feel too. So, I mean, you're right in the same boat. Maybe nobody has an or sometimes.

No, I couldn't agree more. I feel like this is an opportunity just to kind of take a stand and land somewhere. I mean, there's always opportunity to move forward, but there's just so much. And like Heather, it's just like, I didn't know what I did. but I didn't know. So I think it's a good place to start.

Thank you very much.

Teresa. I just want to address what Heather had to say and to tell you that your input are very valuable. And so are yours, Becky. If you feel like you don't know what's going on and the rest of us, you think that, oh, we know what's going on, you're wrong. We know some things, but we don't know what you know. And that's why we need you.

You are all independently passionate and care about our city, which is amazing to me. Maybe I didn't always agree with, you know, one person's opinion or not, but I've learned so much from it. So you've all helped me grow just as a resident and business owner here.

Can we go back to what were we talking about? I can't even, I'm sorry. I got Parkinson brain today so bad.

There was a reference from Ms. Helfrey about working our pooled text definition into this particular element. And then... Chair Routt mentioned a scoreboard. The suggestion was is to define the economic development guide as part of the definitions in the appendix and then provide the link. And as that gets updated over the period of five years, every five years, we can keep it fresh over the course of 10 years.

Well, in my opinion, adding these links to something that we already have is really valuable, even if it's something that seems to be a little more focused than the broad, because all of our economic development plan and our historic preservation plan and whatever it is, should be based off of this. So if they need to come back when they make their plan and say what is it that we have to do, what are the the steps that we need to make sure that we cover and maybe there's more, but we have to cover these. I think anything that we add in here that they can link to and say, oh, yeah, I think that's, I mean, it's not hurting them.

In fact, I think it keeps the master plan relevant, germane. And I think it also gives those benchmarks to the group that updates the Economic Development Guide, the Citizens Action Plan for Parks and Recreation. All those documents that kind of are limbs off of the tree.

I so agree. Vicki, did you have a motion already?

No, I don't have a motion, but I have a question. Go ahead.

Well, before you make the motion, I just want to make one note in a paragraph where it says next steps for Wildwood and its business community go up two paragraphs. And we talk about... major arterial roadway serving the special area of the city, including Manchester Road, State Route 109, State Route 100, Taylor Road, New College Avenue, which is not a major arterial.

I'll strike that.

Thank you.

OK, so I'm going to make a motion for this one with the change that Teresa just said. But I also, I don't know if this is the, well, Okay, I'll make that motion and then come back to me. Okay, go. To approve the document with the one change that she said to strike that street name as presented.

All in favor?

Well, did you have a question?

Nope, I'm going to ask the question after we vote. Okay. Because it's not about this element.

Okay. But you'd added, before we discussed, you were adding the footnote asterisk to the pool tax. Correct.

Just to put a link to the pool tax in there, right? Yeah. The link to the updated. And the guide. And the link to the guide. Thank you so much. Just want to make sure. Thank you, friend.

Thanks for the clarification.

Question, sir. Okay. Does should the motion include your scorecard? That you mentioned as an option. We didn't vote on that.

That is in the, in the guide that he's going to provide a link to an asterisk to say, look at this link and that information will be in that link.

Okay. Yeah. Cause our economic Julie and Jacqueline used to do something. Very similar when we had a dedicated person, which was 1 of the many reasons why I was mentioning that maybe that.

So each month, our Economic Development Committee of City Council meets eight members of the 16-member council. Mr. Lee provides an update, both of businesses' comings and goings. But Mr. Lee also provides the current occupancy rates associated with all of our commercial spaces. Some way, somehow, I'll figure out how to get that component so that there'll be monthly updates if you if you want to understand where our occupancy rate is and right now i am based on our last meeting a couple of weeks ago we're at 93 percent

I mean, it's a great idea, that snapshot. And we have, you know, Tom always puts the modest revenues that we get from reoccupancy permits and all the, you know, fines and those kinds of things. It's all important economic information and it can all go on one sheet.

But it's a snapshot at that moment.

Yes.

And I don't know if I can, I don't know if I agree with some on the group. We could do that scorecard, but it's going to be the scorecard when the documents are approved.

Yeah, no, we're going to link. We're just going to link, right? Yeah, sure.

I just wanted to make sure I understood. Thank you.

Sorry. That just made me think of something else that we used to get every month. We got a report from the police division the the precinct telling us the um income from um fines and yeah what they did but and that you know i used to grab it of course everyone but um

We still get that information, although it's not something that necessarily we want to promote.

Well, it just helps to see the overall thing if there was a link to that too, but I don't know if they still are putting that out if it was Captain Mundell. I don't know.

It is still part of reports that the city administrator prepares and he receives that information obviously from the police captain. But all of that generally is available at each monthly meeting of city council. Each Friday, the department heads along with the city administrator and the police captain prepare a city administrator's report. And that's provided the city council at the council meeting on the second Monday. All of those reports for the past four weeks are collectively a agenda item in the work session under for information. So if you really want to see what's going on, click on that link.

Do we have a second? We do.

We have a second.

We do have a second member McCutcheon seconded. It has not been voted on. Correct. Yeah.

All in favor of Vicki's motion. Aye. Aye. All opposed. Abstentions. The motion passes.

Mr. Vinnage. You had said that you were going to do the introduction and all of those things. And I just wanted to address two things. Number one, you had said that you felt like you didn't realize how much you didn't know. And I think that probably we're all in that boat. When I started anything with the city, it was because I was in my neighborhood and our builder hadn't finished building our neighborhood and was going to jail. And if it wasn't for the city, we would have been sunk. They were wonderful in helping us. And that's how I got involved. And I continue to learn. And we have a wealth of resources. Mr. Bunich has been here. And he's fantastic. And I was lucky to be on the planning zoning with some very brilliant people. And I've learned a lot. But I really liked something that Ms. Clark said. So that I hope that somewhere in the introduction to this master plan, she said, Everything should be based on this document. Everything the city does should be based on this document. And I think that that, I would hope, I'm not gonna say I think that it should, I would hope that that would be in the introduction so that when people say, well, what is the master plan? That's your answer. Everything should be based on this. And so that's my ask respectfully is that somehow that goes in there. I think that that was very well said. Thank you.

Well, if there's no objection upon the part of the group, certainly I think Robin, Melanie, Travis, and I can work that in somewhere.

Teresa.

And I thank you for saying that because, you know, when we look at it, if we wait for projects to pop up that, oh, well, that one will fit this goal and that one will fit this goal. We're not looking at it the right way. We're looking at it as just finishing projects. And maybe they happen to fit that goal and maybe they don't. Maybe there's another goal that they fit. And, but we're not, we don't look at it as here's all our goals. What projects do we need? Oh, we didn't get this goal yet. We've got to put, we have to implement something else. And sometimes I think we get really busy or they get really busy as a council doing the project, project, project, or, you know, legislation, voting on all the legislation and forget that big picture that you were talking about, that we have to look at these goals that we've set forth. And there's goals that we haven't done for 20 years that just keep rolling over. And that's just wrong.

Well, certainly we'll work something in it. No one said no, so we'll take that as a yes and then we'll move on from there. Mr. Chair, the last item on the agenda is just a reminder that we'll begin tomorrow advertising the open house on the draft master plan. That open house will be held on Tuesday, September 8th from 4 p.m. to 6 p.m. here at City Hall. And then there'll be a public hearing at 6.30 PM before our Planning and Zoning Commission on the document. And we'll do our best in that half hour to get them any comments we receive that need to be addressed, I would assume all, so that you have the information. Just so you're aware, the public hearing is held on September 8th, that Tuesday, because of Labor Day. There is a month's time between the public hearing and the department's report. for action. And then there is another month's time before the commission takes final action. So don't feel like it's a rush. There's two months there that we'll be working through the plan.

Would you like attendance from this team? We would love to see you there. And for what time period?

We can, you can come early. You can come in the middle. You can come late.

Are we talking between the four to six?

Usually most people come right away and it tails off. That's been my experience with the open houses. Those that are interested will come around four, maybe stay to five. And then those that got off a little early from work will come from five to six. That's usually a lesser number.

Could I see a show of hands who will attend? What do we got?

About four or five.

Okay, good.

Deborah.

Joe, you're going to throw something at me. But I think the biggest job as the city, as the council, as planning and zoning, as representatives, is to communicate with the public. And my concern is that we're having this open house the day after Labor Day, when a lot of people may not be in town. And from the 4 to 6, the kids don't get out of school now until 4 o'clock. And then if you're working to get there by 6, it's difficult. It's really hard. And everybody's done their due diligence on this report. I think it's a fantastic report. So I would like the community to see this report. And I don't know how we're going to do that. I personally... I know there's space limitations and time limitations, but personally, if we could pick a different date that gives us a little bit more time to get the communication out to the public that this exists and that it's important for you to come and you have your input on it. But I think the timeframe and the day after Labor Day may not be... the best time frame to do it in are the day time. And so you can hit me now.

I will not. So a couple of thoughts. So we've chosen September because we'll have the public hearing. It'll go to Planning and Zoning Commission for first action in October and then be followed by final action, the actual adoption under state statute of the plan in November. In December, then it goes to city council for endorsement and ratification. I'm doing everything possible not to extend this into 2027. Here's my request. If you don't object as the group for us to have the public hearing, we have a month's time to hold the open house between the first action. So we could have it sometime in September. The thought was to have it before the public hearing, but if you don't feel that's necessarily inappropriate, we can certainly adjust it so that it's not after the holiday weekend and not still in the shadow of school starting.

I thought there was trouble with finding a time and a place on the calendar to have it.

We can figure something out. We'll do our best. There's probably a couple of things. It might lead us to be offsite, not here at City Hall, but that's fine because we're not moving directly into the public hearing. We can have an open house. We did these at the schools for many years. So it's really up to you. If you think it's inappropriate to have the public hearing, and not have comment from the open house, then that's fine. That's what we suggested. But if you want to actually give us a little time to do better advertising and the potential to have more people, we'll figure out a date that works between that September 8 and October whatever.

I'm a little confused from the public hearing It's going to be the 8th, right?

Yep.

Well, we've got a whole community. It's going to be a public hearing on what? And when are they going to have the what?

Well, by your action on that last element, that's what's going to get started. That'll be placed on the website. That'll be what we have links to. That's what we'll start advertising. We haven't advertised anything because we didn't know if it was going to all be approved tonight.

But to advertise...

or five days to get the message out that this is very important and we want you to come comment on is that enough time my opinion if i were a resident i would say no but as the director of the department trying to get this done in 2026 that's the best we can do right now if if you feel as a group it's imperative to have the open house before the public hearing

So can I ask a logistics or a realistic question? I'm not trying to be negative. How many people do you really think will show up for the open house?

Well,

I mean, how many residents do we have around?

We've had open houses for... We had 40 at the open house for the historic preservation plan. We've had 20 at some of the open houses for the roadway improvements that we do. Most recently, the department held an open house on... Fortner Park, we had about 10.

So I just, my personal, according to me, I think that with those kind of numbers, I think that you having to move it and us trying to move the open house, I don't think that those numbers justify doing that. I would think that if you get it on the website and it's for public hearing, I think quite honestly, that then they still have time, right? From the planning and zoning perspective, they still have time to come and voice their opinion for several months. They have time to write in emails. And I mean, we can put it out there as best we can. I don't know. I just, my personal opinion is I just don't know that that is gonna make enough of a difference to move it. If that makes sense i'm not trying to be negative I just don't know practically if it would really about to a big difference, thank you.

um. Apparently recent numbers haven't been top tier for open houses. Well, I know that when we were going through trying to obtain the Ward 5 park, we had tremendous turnout, tremendous turnout. And I, are we doing the mailing?

No, the group didn't support it. And as the department cautioned, that's in the thousands of dollars. And it's not something we have the funds for right now. We certainly could get them. We're at mid-year budget adjustments. I'm doing that today. But the group didn't support it.

It's hard for... I don't know how many, I don't know, maybe you have a count. I don't know how many people actually go to the website to look for events or whatever's coming up. I know I've been asked what events are coming up or how do I find out about this or that. So I don't know that people just automatically go to the website to obtain information. But I understand the financial end, but at the same time, I know the city is sitting on some reserve money And isn't that well spent to get a communication out there? Because this is our plan. This is our governance for what we do for the city council and blah, blah, blah. So, you know, just personally, I know it's me. I know somebody else has to deal with budget matters. But, you know, I think this is something worthwhile spending money on. Just me.

And certainly that's a discussion for someone above me, the city administrator, the mayor, et cetera. But as I say, if you want to try to adjust the open house, I think we have a date on the 23rd of September that would work.

What's the 23rd? Wednesday.

Wednesday.

No, I mean, what were we going to do on the 23rd?

If you wanted to shift the open house from Tuesday, September 8th, we could do it on Wednesday, September 23rd. The building's available.

If we did it on Wednesday, the 23rd, could we do the open house and the public hearing on the 23rd?

The public hearing has to be held in conjunction with the commission meeting. I'd be reticent to basically schedule a special meeting because people are accustomed that first Monday, or in this case, the first Tuesday of each month being the commission.

Mike, 10 years ago, did you have a public open house? And was that well attended?

We did. And I don't remember. I mean, we could go back and look. But yes, that particular process took about 16 months, so we're a little beyond that. But we had a little more time. So like I say.

I know we're all invested in the importance of the master plan, but I'm not sure there's a lot of community, what would I say, awareness of how important it is.

Again, always remember, we did receive 800 responses. at the start of the process, which is a good number. We got 300 responses at the end of the process, which is obviously a little disappointing from the department's perspective, but there is a group out there that knows what's going on because they responded.

Jim?

I'm going to make a motion and I'm going to preface it first. When we have good attendance, it's usually something is happening in their backyard. And after we fight that off for a couple of meetings, we get it resolved and we never see those people again. If it's issue oriented, I don't know how the master plan is that issue oriented to the general population. So I'm gonna make a motion that we keep the original timing. We have the open house. have the hearing, have the meeting, and proceed and get this done before the end of the year.

I'll second that. Teresa.

Heather had a comment that she's been waiting a while.

Thank you. I actually agree with Deborah. And here's my thought process on it. I'm going out of town for Labor Day, and I'm not coming back until late Monday. But if it's important for you, for me to be here, I will. But I'm thinking, well, let's just say there are 20 people who are going to show up. How many of those 20 people will be tired from having, you know, been away? It really could impact who would show up just simply because it is the very next day after. That's just my two cents.

I see the open houses in a little different light. I think the people who attend the open house will get their questions answered. And if they get their questions answered before their public comments, that those public comments will be a lot more meaningful than just showing up for comments and not knowing what they're really talking about. So I like the fact that they're together. And I understand the time constraints. And I also understand we're going to get who we're going to get. And I think that's been most of the comments. So I think we need to do our best, including this team, to talk it up and get the attendance the best we can get it.

Thank you, Chair. So if If this is available, if we're able to do this, to amend that and add to it, that not only do we keep that date, but we put out the electronic sign for a few days, can we do that?

Actually, we can't. City Council passed a requirement that the electronic message boards the city owns. cannot be used for anything other than traffic warnings.

Okay. Why?

You'd have to ask the Director of Public Works.

Okay. We've got a motion and a second to accept these dates. Anybody who's going to fall on their sword, now's the time to do it. Otherwise, we're going to take a vote. Teresa.

One other idea that instead of that, we always put out the signs for Coffee with the Mayor. And I know we can get signs made relatively fast because we've had to do that in the past. We put up signs in the music on Main for the raffle. We put up signs all around for Is there any way we could put up a few signs to say that there's going to be a...

Certainly. We can put them at strategic locations where the city owns public space. We're not in the right of way. They're heavily trafficked, like the community park. Buster Trailhead. We can put them here in Town Center. They are government signs, and the department has ample space, not in right-of-way, but next to right-of-way to do it.

Like at the corner of 109 and Clayton, where you have three schools with three groups of parents dropping off their kids and picking them up?

I know a particular gentleman, his name's Chris Pasiglia, that probably owes all of you a favor, so I'll inquire. I'm kidding, but I'll ask him if we can put a sign there next to the intersection, certainly.

How much would that cost?

Well, some of the signs we make in-house and those that are outside, I'd have to defer to my expert, Mr. Newberry.

We haven't ordered them for a while. I would say we would do the thicker corrugated plastic signs. Those are less than $100 a piece.

$100? I'll make some in my garage for $20.

I said less than $100. That's the best range I can give sitting here.

Do we have a coffee with the mayor before the 8th? Is that on Thursday? There's another opportunity to drum up business.

Get him working the

I would make an amendment to the motion that we add in signage and put it out before, you know, if we can get that done quickly and get it out so people can see.

We have a motion and a second on the floor. We need to vote on those. Is that correct? I have an amendment to that motion.

An amendment can be made once the motion's on the floor. And if it's seconded and approved, then we'll go back to the original motion as amended.

So the original motion and second right now is that we leave the open house as is. That's what we were voting on was the date. And the amendment is you want to do signage. Signage. Okay.

And we can easily do that. We'll figure it out and get it out as quickly as we can.

And you need a second for that. I second it.

So Mr. Peer, you'll vote on the motion, the amendment first, and then go to the motion depending on the outcome.

So we're just going to vote on that one?

Vote on the amendment first.

Yeah. Okay. All in favor? Aye. All opposed? Abstentions? Motion passes.

Now the next motion as amended would be to retain the date of Tuesday, September 8th.

All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Who opposed? Deborah? Abstentions? The motion passes. Thank you.

Ladies and gentlemen, you have completed your task. We are eternally grateful for your perseverance, tenacity, input, and coming with an open mind. So thank you all.

I want to thank Joe and your staff for doing a wonderful job to help us.

As well, I'd like to thank you and apologize for us as a team. for letting you down a few times and not being here and you putting all of the things together and putting out papers. And you, Director Vanej, get up and apologize all the time for things that weren't done as quickly as maybe you wanted them done and different things. But we should apologize to you for allowing that to happen as a group. And... We, like they said, we so appreciate what you've done for us, for the city and for our group.

Well, as I've told you many a time, I've never taken a vote on any item that the department has presented. That depends on groups like you, our elected and appointed officials. But thank you. The department appreciates the kind words, but no apology needed. You all earned your stripes here over the last 18 months. So thank you.

Thanks everybody again. It's greatly appreciated. I probably haven't been the most polished, but I try to be passionate and I've learned so much from each and every one of you guys.

So it's greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Yes.

All in favor of going home.

Aye. Opposed? No.