Master Plan Citizen Oversight Group - 2026 - Regular Meeting

at the Wildwood.

Thanks for coming to our sixth meeting. I can't believe it's meeting number six already going really well. It's going well with this everybody here. So, I just wanted to thank everybody. I had a guy here because the mayor is out of town this evening, so he won't be addressing the room. And that being said, we can jump right into a recap of our environmental element and initial discussion on planning element two. Welcome everybody again. and Melanie if you would please take please.

Okay. Uh Mayor Garano is absent. Uh Chair Rafen here. Vice Chair Loyal. Uh member Avery. Member Baker here. Member Batty. Member Boomergel here. Member Borne. Member Clark here. Member Clayton here. Member Coleman here. Member Deppler here. Member Hellfrey here. Member Rubis here. Member Jackson here. Member Conn here. Uh council member McCutchen here.

Uh member Mets, member pick here. Me uh council member Rambo here. Member Ren and member Shyiken here. We have a quorum. Thank you. Would you please lead us into the Sure. stand. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Any discussion on last minutes? The evidence are would somebody make a motion to accept as is. I will make a motion, but I have a couple of things on the discussion with that. Sure. Second. Well, do you want to have it put before we vote?

However you want. um in the in the meeting policy 10 on the minutes it says that policy 10 is um I can find it again uh policy 10

and and move it to the section uh pertaining to object objectives as opposed to policies. But in the meeting, if I got down in my notes right, that was the recommendation. But by the time we were through discussion, it was um decided to send it back to the department to look at combining it with the next three and to add um something about sewage system inspections. Mr. We'll review the video as well. So we'll take a minute with that as you reform the to reform the motion to adopt the minutes that can be a component. anything that comes up if you'll give us the authority to basically address what's on the video and make sure the minutes come such

the second point was that um I can't remember who it was I think it was um Miss Deppler maybe uh that's that about an addition of a standalone objective um for Cox Creek and Joe had said something about adding two policies, one or two policies related to that and that I didn't see that in the minutes. That's all. But I will make the motion with those two changes unless there's more. And we have a second.

I'll second based on Joe's changes. And motion passes. Thank you. And we have a voice vote. All in favor? I. All opposed. Motion passes.

Thank you. of you have a presentation on the current historic preservation plan.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Members of the group, I'm going to defer to Miss Keefe. We have a representative by the Ten Firm working with the city on our first historic presentation plan. These two planning efforts, the master plan and this are running parallel. So we have the opportunity to consult here tonight to kind of give us a preview as key introducer.

Great. Uh thank you. I would like to introduce Marsha Bole with more Ayakafano Goldsman or MIG for short. Uh Marsha comes to us with a wealth of historic preservation planning and engagement experience. Um, but also, uh, she is a Wildwood native, having roots in this area and having graduated from Eureka High School. Um, so she's in Denver right now, which is why she's on Zoom, but, uh, welcome her back home.

Thank you. Um, I'll go ahead and share my screen for a quick presentation. Um, as you probably know from all of the, um, emails that Robin has been sending out, there's a lot of events happening. excuse me, this week for um kind of the kickoff to the preservation plan in person. Um you get a little preview of that tonight and we hope to maybe see some of you um later this week at an open house um the HPC meeting or focus groups which I'll talk a little bit about um here coming up. So I wanted to give you just a little bit of preview on kind of why we're doing a historic preservation plan, how it can factor into your master plan effort. Um, it's great that these are running concurrently because there's going to be a lot of shared topics and opportunities to really think about how preservation can um be incorporated in the master plan and be part of overall um planning efforts for the city. Um, so as was noted, this is the first preservation plan that this city has done, which is very exciting. Um, and a great time to with celebrate Wildwood coming up here in the fall. Um, the preservation plan will offer an opportunity to recognize the history of the community, which there's a lot of really interesting history um, with the city of Wildwood, and opportunities to really figure out how to preserve that history, elevate pieces that maybe a lot of people don't know about, and then think about where we want the preservation plan um, and program to move forward in the next 10 years, and how to prioritize those things, figure out who's going to be involved um, in making that happen, and kind of what timing looks like as well. Um, so again, this is the the first preservation plan that the city is developing. Um, and it's an opportunity to integrate preservation into the whole kind of city planning sphere um, and thinking rather than, you know, saying it's something that, um, Robin and Joe and the HBC work on, it's something that everybody at the city can work on, all

community members can be part of, um, whether they know it or not. Um, a lot of times there's organizations that can really help with preservation um, in ways that elevate their own mission. Um, and it may not be preservation specific in their minds, but it still helps elevate preservation in the community. Preservation is important for a lot of reasons. Um, there's a lot of economic development reasons with heritage tourism, supporting local businesses, and other opportunities to really um, boost the economics of the community. Um, one way that people may be involved in preservation, not realize it, is that, um, they may really like some of the historic buildings along Route 66 or other corridors, um, that they don't realize are historic, but they really bring that character to the community, and losing them would be a detriment to the character of Wildwood as a whole. Um, and so it really helps protect that character moving forward. Making sure we have those resources, those landscapes for decades to come. Um, it also promotes sustainability. Um, you've probably heard the phrase that, um, the greenest building is the one that's already been built. Um, adaptive reuse and making sure that our historic buildings continue to be used and don't just sit vacant in the community is another really important part of preservation planning. Um, and then I referenced this a little bit before, but preservation is not just something that um, the city and the HPC are in charge of. It's something that has to have a lot of partners to make sure that it's supported, that lots of different initiatives are happening concurrently. These are some of the groups we know are already involved in preservation in the community. We're going to talk to a lot of them actually later this week um in a series of focus group meetings that are kind of topic specific. Um, but there's probably a lot of other groups that should be added to this list. And that's one of the questions I'll be asking people this week and beyond, too, is who should we be talking to who can help um with preservation efforts and how do we advance that further than just the people that already kind of are involved

in this type of work. Um, this is a really high level timeline of the project. Um, we've started in the spring. The summer is really focused on establishing our existing conditions report which I'll talk about in a second here. Um thinking about how to involve community members. Um and there's already been some involvement happen happening. Um there's a lot more this week. And then we know that the Celebrate Wildwood event will be a really great opportunity to touch base with people that may not um come to a preservation plan openhouse um that's specific to that one event, but um may you know come to Celebrate Wildwood and we can talk to more folks there as well. From there, we'll kind of work on the draft plan with the goal of having it adopted in the spring of next year um based on the grant funding cycle. Um and so there will be additional opportunities probably in January, February for um more community feedback before we move to adoption hearings. Um I mentioned some of the existing input that we've had. There was a survey um that finished up in May. This built on a survey that um Robin had already posted online. We just added a couple more questions. Um had over 200 responses which we were really excited about. Um, and this is really trying to gauge, you know, what do people know about preservation? Um, where do they get their information about preservation now and how can we advance that further? And then there were some demographic questions just to see who we reached. Um, but this was one initial input. We also had HBC members um, tableabling at the June 20th Music on Main event. Um and they that picture there in the middle is um kind of a preview of one of our activities this week that um we have some sticker dots on a mapping activity to think about um important landmarks in the community that should be celebrated, ones that might have been lost already and you know ways that we can continue to celebrate them even if they're not physically here anymore. Um and then landmarks that may be at risk and so we want to prioritize some efforts to make sure that they aren't lost. Um so there was um some great input received during

that event as well. So, the existing conditions report is our first deliverable. Um, we've had a couple rounds of drafts and we'll continue to refine that. Um, especially as we get more feedback this week on the program as it currently runs um and how we can kind of move from the existing conditions into improvements in the future of the preservation program. Um, we have the existing conditions report divided into four key elements. Um, typically when we start a project like this, we take stock of everything that's happening. Um, and try and figure out some kind of key categories to make this a little bit more digestible. Um, and so I'll talk about each of those here in just a second. Um, the first of those categories is really program administration. Um, and this is a big one for Wildwood. There's a lot of great um, efforts already in place. Obviously, the historic preservation ordinance sets up the preservation program. um gives the different powers and responsibilities to the HBC and is really what has to be maintained to make sure that preservation continues happening um throughout the community. There's a lot of administrative time that also goes into the preservation program. Mentioned um Robin and Joe already. The HPC puts a lot of time into the preservation program and moving that forward. Um but committees like yours are also really important in making sure that preservation is elevated to other planning efforts. Um, and there's also committees um and commissions at the state level that um are also involved in in preservation planning. Even if it may not not seem like it locally, um they are involved and provide funding and other things to at the local levels. Um and then we have a series of designated um historic properties, sites, landmarks, and districts. Um this is again a preview of the map. I know that um it's probably really hard to see and read the actual text on the map at the scale that you have it, but this just gives you a sense of the location of the different designated um historic landmarks in the community. Um those can be seen in the blue dots on this particular map. Um we're also

recognizing through these mapping efforts um non-desated but still really important historic locations in the community. So, this is showing um local historic communities and thinking about, you know, even if they're not designated, these are really important to the story of the community. Um and so wanting to make sure that they show up on these maps as well, so it's very clear that they provide a lot of backstory and history to the community. Um and then finally with the program administration element of those four elements, um all of the planning efforts like this master plan update, um zoning ordinance, historic guidelines, um and then even the state's historic preservation plan really provide some of that um background and framework for preservation in the community. The second of those um four elements is information and accessibility. So this really speaks to how do people get the information about the preservation program? How do they figure out how to be involved if they want to be? And then again, that's the existing condition. So we'll be figuring out how to advance that forward and make sure that it's again as accessible as possible to as many people as possible in the community. Um, one thing that we of course wanted to highlight here is um the Route 66 revitalization effort. We know this has been in conversation for a few years now um leading to the anniversary um and thinking through you know what does this effort look like moving forward. We know there was a lot of great engagement around it um a design for the roadside park and a lot of other great um work that was put into it. So, a lot of people know about that effort and um thinking about how to continue moving that forward um is something that will be part of this project and thinking through that kind of economic piece of preservation will certainly tap into Route 66. Um the third of the elements is um tools, incentives and supporting programs. So, this starts to look at um opportunities for historic property owners, um businesses within the within

a historic district, for instance, and financial tools, regulatory relief, technical assistance, and other programs. Um usually it's, you know, loans, grants, um funding opportunities that are really of interest to folks on how they can maintain their building, advance it forward. Um, so thinking about, you know, what opportunities already exist in the community that we can build off of and bring some creative ideas from other places to to really supplement what you already have going. And then the final piece um of those four elements is education, outreach, and partners. Um, I've said it a few times now, but um it can't just be the city that's advancing preservation. It has to be partners from around the community. Um, we know you have a strong partner with the Wildwood Historical Society. Um, and they are kind of doing complimentary work to what the HPC is doing. Um, but thinking beyond that and thinking about how we engage, um, young folks in the community to make sure that they're the ones kind of stewarding preservation moving forward. um how we tap into the mission of other organizations that are not preservation oriented necessarily but still have some ties to preservation is certainly something that we'll be looking at and having lots of conversations this week about as well with our focus groups. Um of course one big effort with this particular plan component um is the um history book that was made. That was a huge accomplishment. Um I know a lot of effort from you all went into that. um know Robin worked a lot on that with a couple other folks and um that was a really great accomplishment to have and a great way to share the story of the community with people that um may not have seen that all in one place before. So that was really great to to see and be able to have as part of this effort. Um and then finally, I wanted to just wrap up with um kind of some upcoming engagement opportunities. Um like I mentioned, we do have an open house this week. It'll be at 5:30 at city hall. Um, basically it'll kind of start with the openhouse. Um, we'll have a short

presentation that will be essentially um this presentation and a few more things um at 5:45 and then it'll just be openhouse informal um style from there and then right at 7 we'll kind of roll into the HPC meeting um and have some more detailed conversation with them as their own sort of focus group for the effort. Um, we'll also be at Celebrate Wildwood in September. And then we think probably January, February, we'll be doing a virtual open house once we have, um, kind of a full plan document in place and an opportunity for people to weigh in on that document. So, with that, um, thanks for letting me be here tonight and give you a quick presentation. I'm happy to take any questions or discussion. Um, yeah, thank you.

I just wanted to say that there would be ice cream at that open. Yeah, the most important part. Excellent. Okay. Thank you, Miss Bole. Thank you. Okay, moving on. Joe, could you please get Mr. Chair? I think we have some comments, questions.

Sorry, I get bothered. Does any city surrounding us or nearest or neighbors have a preservation plan in place? I know there are communities around the state that do. I'm not sure adjacent um cities wise if if you know there's there's one in Chesterfield for instance. Um but I know Kansas City has one. Um the city of St. Louis, Independence, there are a lot of plans around the state. Um and I've worked on plans in Iowa, Texas, um Oregon, and Minnesota, too. So, a lot of great, you know, ideas to consider for advancing the program here. um from both the state and from other places around the country.

Chesterfield has one. We don't we don't Chesterfield has one, but I believe Crest has one. Who does? Crestwood. Uh and the Oage tribe, is that the only tribe that has any bearing on on Wildwood? That is the primary contact. Yeah. And and then the other thing from the Wildwood music on Maine where you had the tent did was there anything that was earthshattering or eyeopening when you had that with people what kind of response people were giving you?

Well, I I guess it was interesting that Babler State Park was our most celebrated historic landmark that evening. Uh that's what seemed to be the most popular. Uh followed by some of our other parks and trails. So that continues to um stay dominant in people's minds. Um everyone is very concerned about the Lasal Institute. There was one question that what what would you choose that isn't celebrated that needs to be celebrated with any Yeah. Any information gathered there? Uh what? Okay. So you're asking what what feedback did I receive in terms of

people? You you said what what do you want to celebrate and then what aren't we celebrating that we need to put emphasis on or are bring to the fold. I don't know that that question was specifically posed, but I did get a lot of more informal places. Uh like one person approached me about lost access to Fox Creek. Like I guess they had previously, you know, there was a familiar swimming hole and they had lost contact or lost access to it when a parking lot closed. Um, there was a lot of talk about Rock Hollow Trail Network and Zombie Trail. Um, someone did bring up Mary Cliff, which we recently lost. Um, but but yeah, uh, I'm sorry off the I think that's that's the primary feedback that I received. And I'll say too real quick that on that last point um that is really like Robin's describing the opportunity for people to recognize that even if they're not places that are officially historic, there's a lot of stories and places in the community that are really important to think about preserving even if it's kind of a soft preserve. um sometimes we call those um intangible historic resources that there may not be a mechanism right now that formalizes designation but there's still ways that we can figure out the story storytelling figure out trail networks that are great opportunities for people to physically experience um history and stories. So all of those inputs are really important for this effort and really thinking beyond just our traditional preservation sphere and how we can advance that. Just to piggyback on that, one of our newer uh historic preservation commissioners, Diane Shoenfeld, approached me uh last year after one of

our tenting events. We had presented a map of all of Wildwood's historic communities, and she commented that she didn't associate with any of our historic communities despite living in the area for a really long time because she really associated strongly with the Wild Horse Creek Valley Association. And then that led to uh a bit of a investigation side research uh project because she had a sign like a old wooden sign really faded on her property for the Wild Horse Creek Association. Um so then we ended up going around the Wild Horse Creek Valley and I got an informal tour um to for for all these people who were involved in that association and you know some of the stories that resulted from that. So, um, so yeah, I'm learning things new all the time that the commission isn't necessarily focused on, um, through some of those some of that more, uh, local knowledge, uh, type history.

The thing that was I was bringing to mind is Westland, you know, West Wesland Acres was noted uh in the activity as something that we needed to to be aware of and celebrate. Any more comments, questions from Miss Bo? Again, thank you very much. Thank you. Joe.

Well, first of all, this is the official opportunity to welcome and thank you again for being here. I know chair this introductory remark. We do appreciate you taking time for folks coming. Um, as always, we've prepared some snacks and drinks for you. So, please don't be bashful. If you want something to drink while we're talking, please get up. Won't offend anybody. I sure um do want to kind of piggy back off just provided to you in the presentation. Um it isn't necessarily that historic preservation rises to the level of let's say our master plan and elements but I want you to understand that there are seven elements in the master plan inclusive of the land use component and at least five of them I think have a relationship to historic preservation. Um, for example, tonight we'll be talking about the planning element and that's where many of the objectives and policies that set forth our process to create a historic preservation commission and a historic preservation and restoration code. We also in many of our parks have historic assets and that's intentional on the part of our city council. And just another example, our land use map on the several land use categories. Years ago, we created the historic land use category. We call it the fifth land use category, but it's specific if there is a historic property that can be saved. And it's contrary to the other four categories, land use categories. It's kind of an overlay that allows us to be a little more flexible in terms of type of use, density of use,

intensity of use, etc. So almost from the inception of the city, we recognize that we have a lot of historic assets and a real great history to share and help us to do it. So again, the parallel path we're on, I hope brings us to a successful conclusion on both fronts. you know, we basically set ourselves up for the next 10 years to have a lot more history about this area developed and then provided to all of you as residents and others. So that's why we spent a little time with well written. The next item is the environmental element and as you know we spent the last two meetings going through the goals, objectives and policies. You gave great input and as uh the test Melanie Travis and I spent a great deal of time trying to make sure that we understood all of that input, all the promotions that were made. I'll be those rules and checks and policies to read as a final hatchet so to speak. So achieved yesterday that's my goal. There were five new evidence or not the last. So there's no action expected to know whether that's fair that we basically get something yesterday afternoon expect you to digest it all and then come back and say great everything right or we're successful. So you will have an opportunity to to basically discuss the final version. It's not tonight though. And so you do have a few more weeks to kind of go over it, make sure that you

captured your thoughts and did exactly what you asked. Um the wording certainly if there's no ownership if you think that effective policy was highlighted in yellow too. So again, this is kind of your homework assignment. We apologize for retarding this and getting it to make a good excuse to watch. And Miss Clark brought to our attention a couple items that obviously I didn't catch anything the updated version two items that were part of the house. So we'll put those in there and we'll have Mr. Chair. If there's any questions on that, I'm glad to try to answer them at this time.

Just one thing I noted was um the policy number 14 is missing. time. So, so we go from 13 to 15. 14's missing. It was combined. Melanie, we do this last cut and I think we're okay. We went through it. Right. As you'll find, you get to the final version, these a lot of their policies more so than police objectives. So, they'll do verified.

Well, just all the others were said will be combined and that was the only one that didn't. Like I say, please when we went through it, it's it had all of them there. Like there wasn't a 14. And so I think it's just a numbering, but they're all going to have to be reumbered anyway. It was just there for ease of trying to explain which one was which. I think I think math no mathematics

say that. So, but yeah, we did go through and make sure that we didn't inadvertently delete policy like something that would be like a polar wild and all of a sudden it's not there anymore. It's like, oh, we did a fine job for you, didn't other questions?

I do have a question. So, at one point, I think it was Vicky uh Halpry that mentioned that some things that um points in the in the introduction to these um the goals, policies, and objectives. Is it time to bring those up now? Because I think you said, you know, that will be something we talk about later. For example, um she asked I think about the um what did you ask about the the soil morphology test? What was it? And just some of those things that are listed in there in all of the introductions. Can we add links to each one of those things? The um Dr. Hammer's natural source

protection. Protection. Yeah, whatever it was called and that and maybe even the um plan of intent. Could we if we add links to that then it's because it's kind of hard to find all of the things you want to look for in the website sometimes.

Well, certainly and I think that's the intent particularly of of Travis Robin and Melanie who are much younger than I. We understand the benefit of adding links so that you can go to the full document but not necessarily have a document that's our master plan that's 6 in thick and it doesn't achieve necessarily the goal. People look at it and think that's a little bit too much. So yes, it can certainly link in. So part of what will happen as we go back to the environmental element, the office meeting after you've had a chance to your review, you'll also receive the draft of the the narrative, the paragraphs that precede goals and objectives and policies. That'll be the first draft. And in there, um, we'll try to identify those key terms. I think we know most of them, all of them. If you have any you read through that draft that you received before the August meeting and you find something that doesn't either you don't understand, haven't heard before, or is a technical term that maybe just very specific to Wildwood, identify it, highlight it, and that's the one we can then build links off of as well. So, we'll do our best to identify those terms for you, but certainly any that you see that you would like to have identified and linked to something that would provide more information, clarity. So, we'll start now feeding you the narrative that we got a little further into the illness. Any questions? With your permission chair, we'll jump into the second element. Well, the second element you can see

from the information that's been provided as part of this template tonight is planning and to me fab and I for since we're all homes, but this isn't necessarily just about the practice of planning. It's a whole lot of different things as well. And as it did the practice that we started with with the environmental language, the department provides you the gold objective policy statement and then the commentary for the part trying to explain how it would apply, why it's there, etc., etc. And what we should what the department thinks should consider in terms of its ultimate disposition. Retain, retain, revised, etc. So, using the same process we use with the department that you'd like to go through, get some explanations out to you about them and through your thoughts and move forward with the emotions that you feel comfortable to them. You do not, that's fine, too. Like I say, that's the first she most comfortable decision. So the first um item under planning element is through the following the city of implementing updating and maintaining talking about plans for the regulations that were the tools we use to ensure that we do appropriate time in a manner that is suitable to our residents. Um that the commentary basically

city leadership that being mayor and many many city council members elected over the years believe that timely updates and suitable regulations were the foundation that we will all of our plans to upon. And for the most part, we do regularly update them over the last 10 years. And you'll see this in one of the drafts of the food preservation and restoration code. We've updated our story, excuse me, we're doing a historic preservation plan. We do a lot of things to basically keep pace with what's going on out in the community as well as across the country where we learn a lot examples both good and bad. The recommended action in this case is retain. So you want me to go through the rest of the goals and then we come back and talk about them. Goal two, planning efforts must be coordinated with other jurisdictions or being service providers, utilities and other governments, county government and state government and federal government. Um the department took the liberty here to say that that's not been necessarily a successful process for us. Recent examples are Missouri Department of Transportation basically digital pull in the city with $700,000 finish a project they should be doing on their own. In many instances, many of the service providers, they do for the most part what's best for them. They never consult the cities relative to what they're doing, why they're doing it, and how it might impact our bottom lines, our communities. We work under the assumption that all of

them have the best interest of their constituents which are our constituent. But in this particular instance, the department is saying why not Wildwood first. Meaning we take care, we make decisions in Wildwood that basically help our residents who are city residents. We don't necessarily defer decisions because a fire district or another service provider says this isn't in our our best interest. No, we're here to basically serve our wildwood residents. And so from the perspective of the department, we believe we should have a policy of Hollywood first. It's not to say that we would negate any input any cooperation or any partnerships. We have great partnerships with many of the state and county agencies. Quite frankly, we're at a point where population is declining. We're not seeing the the commercial the economic growth that we had hoped. And I think part of the reason is is we're basically more resources to other other things, other governments, other service providers, other jurisdictions should be doing. So from that perspective, I think it's very important that we make a false statement as we

Mr. Could you give me an example of that of what they are um what they are imposing on us that that I just didn't quite understand what you were saying. Well, for example, I did I just gave you the Missouri Department of Transportation. We're basically doing the route 100 um an agreement with that.

The agreement basically that engineers estimate that's used to basically create the agreement is substantially higher calls on the city. So basically we got the bids. We looked it was $700,000 more than the engineer system. We went back to him and said, "Listen, that's a whole lot of money." Well, you have a choice. We won't do the project. We come up with $700,000. So that $700,000 took away a trail that was going to link the villages of Bright Leaf to Green Pines Park. I see. took away resurfacing all of our trails. Okay,

it took away a whole lot of things that we could have been doing for Wildwood assets. Okay. Not a state road. That's an arterial that for all intents and purposes they have money now. Well, thanks for explaining. Thank you for that, Mr. Vish. Um my question would be it's two parts. The first part would be if we had take the wild one first stance with that, how would that have changed the $700,000 outcome?

Mayor Garitano was here, he would tell you we're not going to spend any more money on state rightways because you spend money, we spend money to help the state of Missouri. And when we go to the legislature to get funding for storm water improvements projects that are in we need to do and are in dire condition. The legislature says yes. The governor vetos vetos it three years in a row. We go to the governor and say we're doing these things for the state of Missouri. We're helping you. Why can't you help us? The idea would be instead of spending capital improvement on state rideways, let's spend it on our storm water profits.

Excellent. And then my next question is because I'm on planning and zoning, you often hear people complain because they don't understand things as I don't understand things sometimes. And so part of this thing where we do the wildwood first, is there a way to um educate people on some of the things that are out of our control? For example, the state of Missouri telling us that we have to uh allow cell phone towers and and things of that nature where we don't really have a say. Is there a way to educate people on that? I think as planners, our job is to provide public education about the regulations, why we have them, how we apply them, the things we can do or we can't do. So that may be a goal that we add now. But for those that aren't familiar, over the past several years, the state legislature has basically tied our hands on telecommunication dollars. You can't even ask for the information the telecommunication provider generates why this is the location they chose. You just have to assume it's the best local. In actuality, it'll be okay, but it may be the least expensive. They did the same thing with homebased businesses. Not that we were trying to economic development. Yes, it is to generate income for their businesses, but we had protections for the residential areas around them and these businesses now have a greater amount of latitude. They're certainly concerned about parking and dangers to the residential character of the property. That's just two examples. There's others and we see it on planning and zoning commission. People come to a hearing say this telecommunications tower's got to spoil the view. It's this, it's that. creates health answers. We basically say

all we can really do is saying a book from street level that's where we can do screening landscaping things like that. Our hands are relatively tied in many ways and if they have collation opportunities for pretty much nothing.

Well, I'm not necessarily asking the city I mean it's not as if you guys don't have enough on your plate. So, I'm not necessarily asking you guys to um go out and do all the leg work for educated, but maybe um like Mrs. Clark said, maybe those links might be a good idea or you know, here's a link to the state website. Why? I don't know. I just feel like it's hard sometimes to get that information out there. So, I just that was just my question. So, thank you.

Certainly, there's always opportunities for us to do better. We now have a new communications manager, a lady named Paul Masan. She's been doing great work. Everything from our website to our social media exponentially exploded in terms of views and some shares and things like that. So, um, I think public education is a key to all of the elements and maybe that's where when we get down to the end of the process, we see where it fits best and make sure it's it's it's identified as being a key component of anything.

Thank you. to your point on the education. I think city does a real good job information cards that go out anytime zoning issue. That may be an excellent opportunity there may be for a paragraph that says and oh by the way this is an state requirement to your point

Mr. the the 700k overrun was that because of what we requested the J turns and the left turn lanes actually the state had prepared the plan use of J turns at Pond Road State Highway T then we also doing left turn lanes at certain subdivisions along Route 100 so that when we stop to make a left turn and there's oncoming traffic the risk of being rear ended is reduced. So there's a number of safety improvements planned.

But obviously residents came to us and said Conro and Route 100, it's a disaster waiting. There's been many serious accidents, no fatalities. Fortunately, there's been a number of problems on Route 100 with these left turns. So the idea was here's what we want to do. How would we do it if we partner? They came back with a plan and we went from there. But wasn't it their initial intent to repay 100 from Wildwood to Franklin County?

Actually, that was more of Mayor Bolan's persistence with the state legislature and the leadership at the Missouri Department of Transportation. He ma he made it a point at any opportunity and rightly so to say you know that road since it was initially built had never been resurfaced and so that was sometime in the mid 80s and so they've been kind of cobbled together with simple replacements potholes etc. So as I told you if we wouldn't come up with the $700,000 and Dr. them contested is they said they walked away from the project.

Well, yeah, and I understand they like to play hard ball. I I I think that if an engineer misses the project by $700,000, I mean, that must have been an intern that was working or something. That's that's ridiculous.

Here's the explanation we're getting. Um, so there is a a massive infrastructure project that's underway on Interstate 70 adding the additional lanes both St. Louis to Kansas City on either side east westbound and eastbound. That is like a a three billion dollar project that's siphoning off scores of contractors, subcontractors, and it's elevating the price because it's hard to get materials because all the materials are going out to the interstate and that hoop. So what's left the ch the pricing has escalated and contractors know they're in short supply and so it's not a very good environment company.

The other thing is the um does a home business have to register with the city and do we issue a business license? Well, Miss Pek just did that today and I signed up on it. So a great answer. Um, it is not mandatory any longer, but we encourage it because that way if there's ever a question in your subdivision, you have a $25 license that basically says you're okay. So, but it's not mandatory any longer. It was prior to the change at state level.

Well, what if a a home business starts impacting the residents of the subdivision or or the neighbors? What recourse does the city have? Well, with our homebased business regulations, do you mind if No, I'm happy to discuss it.

So, what I have to look at or what the department looks at when necessarily me is that first and foremost that nothing's changing on the exterior footprint of the property. So, you know, it basically we check that we look at the aerial photograph, make sure everything's as it was. uh we make sure that there's adequate parking at least on street or in the u driveway there's enough space for at least two cars and then from that perspective what what the key component we look at is how many how many employees because there you're now allow employees this PEX application had three I don't know if they're all in the homebased business but our code says a single family dwelling can have up the three unrelated people constitute a family. So the way the state statute reads is it cannot exceed the occupancy limit set forth for the dweller. What's the occupancy limit in my opinion? It's three unrelated people that constitutes a family which is a key part of a single family dwelling. So the three employees you would find. Joe, can you refresh my memory? This came up in PNZ when it first happened before Commissioner Rubis joined. Do you remember what the city attorney said about the HOA? Can an HOA prevent a business from with the new with the law change that I can't remember?

No, it's solar panels now. They can't prohibit solar panels, but an HOA, if it had existing restrictions, they would still apply. So, if you're HOA strong, you can prevent a business if you have an HOA. Now that's taken into account your indentures restrictions or couples. Any thoughts on that, sir?

No, no. I mean I mean most I live over in Hickory Manor and I I just finished I was supposed to be a trustee for two years and then co ended up to be five years. But the biggest thing with us is that our our our bylaws and indentures were done in 1998 and they're completely outdated and they're archaic and they don't conform to what's going on now and and nobody wants to spend the money because we looked into it and it's by time we get the attorney and get it rewritten and get it approved by the city and they get approved by the the everyone else it's like 30 to $40,000 and nobody wants to do it but then nobody wants to you know you know your HOA is as good as the teeth it has. I mean, we're not going to sit there and sue everybody that doesn't follow this or doesn't follow that. So, it's just it's these subdivisions have been here a long time. I would assume a lot of the dentures are old and and outdated and just not up up to to what they should be.

Yeah, you do look at your indentures and it still has a lot of that references to the developer can do this, the developer can do that. Those are the original indentures and they're not they're not working in your favor, Jeff. So, Wildwood first. Yes, ma'am.

Yeah. When we were talking about getting the word out um and some of the terms, you know, it might be a good idea if staff one more thing to do. Well, like, you know, go on our website or on our YouTube and just kind of like, you know, explain what land regulations are, what land uses are, you know, what you what tree standards are, whatever, and just kind of explain that and it would stay on YouTube. And then hopefully, you know, during council meeting, we could announce what is on YouTube this time and maybe people would pick up on that and then get a better idea.

I think our three over there could do a podcast. Sorry guys. I think the problem with that is making people

one last question. Highway 100 and Clayton Row and Wild Creek, they're all state roads. And isn't it the states isn't safety the state's ultimate responsibility? Period. Well, we've had great success pretty good on resolving issues that existed real fast improvements are their safety improvements. It's hard to argue against them. We save a life, but it was worth it all. I think that became a thunders life. And so from their perspective, they they talk about having to basically count the fatalities before they'll do something. That's just kind of and a great example, and I'm sorry I'm going to take more time, but there was a there was a number of people that had identified Clayton Road as needing improvements, potholes, things along those lines. Everybody got excited because after there was a discussion and a contact made at St. West County crew two crews were out there and basically they filled a few potholes then came back and so where the sidewalks um don't meet and there's a brick they basically just took asphalt fil

and there was an issue with the turn from from 109 on to Clayton as to who's that actually was and who was responsible for it. Yeah. And that's why that particular intersection looks so bad still. Nobody wants to claim. So probably first

next um next goal is um I think very straightforward land use decisions land use and planning decisions shouldn't be made in a vacuum. Meaning we should take into account the other elements of the master plan, the historic preservation plan, our action plan for surfaces, etc., etc. Well, we're solely looking at the land use component, how it affects maybe the city's bottom line would be shortsighted. And so this particular goal says work together. if that's what you're like to do. Uh goal four, protect residents investments in properties, buildings and structures. This is a new one and the department believes that we should add this to goal to ensure code enforcement over nuisance activities operative maintenance activities based upon appropriate laws regulations and standards. So long time ago a great gentleman I was young one said to me really government is here to do three two things to protect property values and make sure you're safe and really when it gets down to that that's what we should do and so this kind of reflected your property your home is probably your major investment or at least one investment and we need to do things from a planning perspective to ensure that we land use planning infrastructure maintenance. So that's a new new goal. Um another new

goal of develop climate friendly and salient steps for city purchases. So we don't have an electrical electric vehicle in EV. We don't have EV stations for people to charge their We have a lead certified building for the most part is suffering from some of that. We don't have solar panels on many of our improvements, things like that. And are we buying things that are for the environment or basically worse recycling? So, I guess what this talks about is maybe having a scorecard. Let's see how we're doing. Are we keeping pace with our residents who are doing these things or not? Is it an important thing to residents? That's what you're here to tell us. So from that perspective, it's going and the last one is preserve Wildwood's history and culture through cataloging, interpretation, and preservation of the city's important landscapes and landmarks. Now later on into this element, we'll take policies. There's a number of things that we've added about historic preservation, but I think Robin was adamant that we should probably elevate something in terms of the statement about to a goal. The overarching umbrella and from everything from that umbrella talks about preservation as a key component of our land use, our planning and other decisions. And then there's a number of items there. [Music] forgot they had one. I apologize. Didn't know for those so I apologize. So these are these are the goals. There are

some blanks there for leans. We talked about public education and doing more to inform our residents about what we do, how we do it. So any thoughts on the goals once that have been presented to you or any things you've missed? Yes, we do.

So, I have a just a question on goal number four to um clarify for myself. Um would you know adding the goal to ensure code enforcement efforts require hiring a code enforcement officer or does the city already have one? And then the follow-up question would be earlier it was mentioned that you know the HOAs don't necessarily have teeth sometimes to enforce things. So, if you had an existing HOA in your subdivision, who does can the city override that? Would someone be driving around like how does that look? If you could help me understand that.

So, let me give you a bit of background. We're just under 13,000 properties that form 68 square miles that we've hold. Not all of those 13,000 properties have improvements on them, homes, commercial buildings, etc. Um but a lot do. Um we basically have two full-time code enforcement officers. One is a code enforcement officer, that's the title. The other is the code inspector who does more of the grading site inspections for storm water pollution prevention plants. Thanks a lot. Melanie and I kind of do it on an asne basis when things get really hectic or there's something going on that's just so egregious we've got to address it as quickly as possible. Melanie started in code enforcement. She's our expert actually. She's probably the best I've seen from understanding them all. Um so we have to um does this goal mean that we engage another code enforcement officer? We talked about it over the years. Um we haven't we started out with one, we've been at two probably for the last 15 plus years. Um and then kind of the the second part of your question which I already forgot. So if you

Oh, I was curious if if that is becomes a goal would an H. So I let's say I have a complaint against you know something I think is a safety issue or property valuation issue. Would I notify my HOA first? Would I notify the city? And who would, you know, be the deciding factor in that?

Well, I'm going to give you my opinion now almost 40 years into this. I think having three residents, five residents become the board of trustees for a homeowners association could not be any of a worse solution to governance of a subdivision than there could be. Um because you're neighbors first and foremost. In fact, the neighbor may be somebody you have to go talk to and then see them every day. Um also, as Lewis mentioned, it's expensive. I mean, if you go if your educators say you can't do this and somebody does that and they basically say we're going to continue to do that, your job then is to an attorney and then use the collective resources of your subdivision to go to court. stop. It's worth it, but it's expensive. Saying all of that, there are private restrictions that are placed on each of the lots at the time of PL. We don't have authority authority right now to enforce. It's on you. For the most part, our our big contribution is if we get an application for a building permit, we make sure at least you've been notified. So, it's not something that happens and you're on your own. That's ebuilt. You should know. Make sure you should know. So, it's antiquated. I think it's a visible approach.

So, so are you saying that you guys aren't enforcing? So, um, one of the, and I don't blong here, but like for the main thing and one of the main ones in ours is people aren't cutting the grass. I know City Wildwood has an ordinance where if you don't have cut the grass, so they contact us and we say that's, you know, go to the city of Wildwood. So, you're not enforcing those kind of basic ones like that. We are. Okay. Okay. So, if they your indentur said the grass can be no taller than Yeah. There's nothing we can do. So we say, you know, if if the city of Wildwood has a ordinance that trumps ours or that mirrors ours, then you need to go to the city, let the city enforce it. You bet. We'll do that a 100 times a day. If if it's if yours is more restrictive than ours, we can't. Y

So it's Miss Baker. I wish I could say we we could be more accommodating their private restrictions on private property. Um, but we're glad if there is that, as Lewis mentioned, that overlap where we have something, give us a call. I just wanted to understand how it worked, how it was written, Rob.

Yeah. Um, couple of points here. Uh, they may or may not directly apply to the master plan process that we're working on, but it's important for folks to hear. First is a minor point that the city has very limited information about HOAs that exist in the community and we don't know how to contact folks and there's just no that that linkage is almost completely broken. We need to figure out how to fix that and I think sooner rather than later would be a good thing. I thought the city keeps a list of all the you're supposed to submit the presidents of each HOA and you guys do it and we submit it to you. They submit the changes and that's a master list.

We have on our website a list of all the subdivisions and the trustees. It's dated oftent times what we have is no longer okay. So updating it and keeping it current has been yeah it's it's worse than than just made it sound. city and village. I don't know if you guys are familiar with them, but they are the majority of for the HOAs when you try to contact an HOA to get information. Trust me, I know we're always deferred to city and village. You know, they their whole responsibility is just collecting dues. They really don't

sure the road or something like that. But yeah, so so I had several other things and then we maybe we can talk about each one. Um the um the second one is code enforcement. The Achilles heel of our code enforcement speaks directly to April's point about um teeth. There are there we have no teeth in our code enforcement process. We the best we can do is every few months we can find someone $100, maybe $200. And that's by state statute. So there's no way. People will just say it's cheaper for me not to mow my grass and pay a hundred bucks every six months than it is to buy a lawn mower and put gas in it and so on and so that's a silly example, but it's it speaks to the the problem. I don't know if if there's any way for us to sort of um um circumvent the state statute on something as simple as uh enforcement or you know get creative. But I think that's a real problem for us cuz we're talking about all these things that would be great to enforce. But enforcement there's no there's no carrots and there's no stakes. It's just relying on people's decency and neighborliness and it doesn't always work out. Um,

yeah.

Yeah. And our I'm listening. Our HOA was developed years ago and wow, they they wrote a really good one because we we can actually You're only as good as the trustees. We're actually grappling with that now. We got a new crew in and we're getting things fixed. I'm just a volunteer on it, but we can find people for not cutting their grass and then we can do things if they don't want to do it. And then we can file what's called the mechanics lean or whatever, which is what you just quietly said, a lean and we can get so even if someone doesn't pay the dues to the city and village, we can file the lean whenever they sell a house, you get it. It could be 40 years, it could be two years from now. It puts us first in line.

So that's leverage. I mean, that's but we need to figure out who the HOAs are, right? We didn't have We're just real fortunate because we've got some issues uh coming up in everyone's fort because things got bad enough where Oh, thank you. Right. And it's clearing brushback and for the roads that we maintain ourselves among some other things. And so we've got a pretty peaceful subdivision, but you can see when they go south, they go they go south, right? And you're only as good as your how strong your trustees. I'll give you an example and I'm done. Okay.

My wife was a trustee for a while. She's an attorney and the foliage that we're dealing with now that everyone's so happy that we're clearing back and we're getting likes and hearts on Facebook and all that other stuff. My this was starting to get bad and when she was a trustee eight years ago or 10. She cut and pasted from the covenants and sent letters to everyone of what their responsibility was. And you would think, oh my gosh, why couldn't you just talk to people and been reasonable? and she goes, "I cut and paste it from the covenants." So, as years went by, the foliage is out in the road, blah blah blah. Now, it's like, "Hey, thank you. Scott's out there with his limbs on. I'm the helper." But,

so anyway, you're only as good as your HOA, and I'm sure there's some improvements, but wow, man. Listen to you guys. We our four people that developed ours did a good job. So, anyway, sorry. So, I rambled too much.

Good for you. No, no. I that was I personally appreciate that because it's it's helpful to know that we have an avenue for enhanced enforcement. We just need to go through the HOAs, which means strengthen those ties is a key. I don't know how that fits into a goal, but it makes perfect sense to me. And the final thing I had was just a sort of a um uh a detail, but goal five um we mentioned a scorecard for compliance to you know adherence and compliance to these um to these principles and um I don't know how we can do that since we voted against you know any meaningful data collection and certainly voted against any respons uh responsible assigning a responsible party for um for um any particular you know point in this whole plan and so um maybe we maybe at the end or in the planning in the planning section or something we need to sort of revisit that concept because I don't think it was the vote was certainly not clear to me and there was I didn't get a clear rationale as to why we didn't want to have a responsible party or responsible department or or things like that. So I would suggest that we when the time is right, we reconsider that notion.

Well, I'll just tell you there's three departments. Administration, which is our city administrator, that's money, and there's public works and planning. So there's really not a whole lot of responsible parties. We're not a big government. So at least from my perspective if we all chip in the three are so interlin because you look at it really about 10 of us code enforcement land use planning infrastructure roads bridges etc etc etc so I don't you know if you're going to name a person it should be the director

well I was just saying yeah you're right the director of the department or some somebody I mean some there should specific accountability and um but I'm more interested actually in you know collecting the the data that that's useful and that's what we're starting to do as you found out last night but it's extremely hard to get a current list of the HOAs representative it's extremely hard like you heard me the other night I I can knock on one door who used to be president HOA

know I'm no longer than They send you to another one and they say, "No, it's not me." And then you go into another one and you're lucky if you actually come up and then they change. Some of them change so fast. Can we make annual compliance to uh that list an ordinance or something like that? Well, you just described how our code enforcement efforts are toothless. So, let's say Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. I don't you a summon if you don't tell us who's your trustees. But if people if people care enough to be an HOA member, they ought to be neighborly and good enough to um to try to do the right thing for the city, right? And maybe that's the best we can do.

Well, I don't think that's the best we can do. I think we can do better. I think we haven't run out of rabbits in our hat for this. I think that we can um maybe make that a goal that over the next 10 years, we got 10 years to do it to come up with a plan for how to keep updated on the HOAs and the uh trustees. But that wasn't my real point. My point is um you know in order to in order to modify these goals like we're doing over the next 10 years and I know I made this um a motion before in one of the first meetings but let me change it up a little bit for the next 10 years if we need to know how how um how they how successful they were over the 10 years. Like right now we've got Mr. Vinich and we've got Melan, we got Travis and they have so much information to tell us when we ask these questions but next 10 years none of them might be here or that have been here all these years. I mean I expect Joe to still be here but he might not but it may be a whole new staff next 10 years and so they might not have all of that information. So if we we need to know how successful we've been in 10 years so we know whether to um to that we need to revise or to um to retain or to remove a goal or objective or policy. Did it work?

Are you saying succession planning type of deal? Su a succession planning. But my I'm going to make another motion and see how it goes to develop some kind of a matrix that would include a goal element, a goal, actions, a place for actions and the department responsible because it's a it more overall if we don't want to put a name on there a department responsible and a date of completion. Yeah, just something very simple.

You're right. That that accountability that's what I was trying. Yeah. So that in next 10 years when we're we're sitting here or somebody else is that comes to us with each element and we can look on it and see were we successful with this did we how do we need to revise it when we don't have Mr. Venich to ask the question. That is my motion. Before we take that to vote, Vicki, you were trying to jump.

I was just going to answer about the HOAs and say that if you call city and village, every HOA has to register with them every year to fill out a trustee who's the president, vice president, secretary.

They're required to do that. So, city and village usually have a current list, but you know, look, Joe knows I was a trustee for 12 years and since then, there have been several trustees and you're only as good as the people you get. And when you say, you know, if you have to belong to an HOA, everybody should get along. That's just not real world. And if you live in a neighborhood, you have to belong to an HOA and you don't necessarily get to change anything with those indentures because it's costly and it's time consuming and um I I speak from absolute experience with it. Mr. Runage will tell you it was a hell of a time in our my neighborhood for a while. Um so everybody belongs to an HOA and just because you belong to an HOA doesn't mean you follow the rules or you're a good neighbor. No, no. I doesn't mean that. And they're not easy to change. They are absolutely not easy to change. And the majority of the time you buy a house and then you find out what your HOA indentures

because the real estate agent doesn't it's there. So that's kind of that's my comment about that. As far as Miss Clark's Well, hang on. I just want to make sure that we're clear. Absolutely.

Please. Um uh and I'm not trying to dispute anything you're saying because I I believe in it and I have experienced that those very same problems myself. the um the um uh the trouble is that uh uh or the the con the idea was um that if you if you are a member of the HOA association or the president or whatever, hopefully a um a majority of those folks would be uh good enough citizens to keep the city informed because the the turnover the churn and the turnover is what you know especially for the large the smaller associations like there's one near me that's 23 homes or something like that and they hadn't revised they hadn't done anything since 1989. All they did was pay you know pay the money to pave the road and really that's it. And so um there's a lot of those out there.

They tried to amend ours and we had the attorney tell us that really quite honestly if you didn't get a 100% of the neighborhood to vote in favor it the amendment wasn't enforceable. Right. I mean, we I I So, it's a mess. Trust me when I say actually experienced every single one of those things. And so, that's all I'm saying is that it's I don't disagree with anything you're saying. I'm just stating that it's not as simple. It's never as simplistic as we levelheaded people in the room would think it would be. That's all I'm saying. 35,000 people in in um 500 HOAs, quite likely, it's uh it's impossible. the other and you run into others. We just had that P&Z thing, a very amicable thing about this music deal.

There was an an older gentleman. He's a recluse. He didn't want to talk to anyone. He had access coming in another way. He didn't really care fine. Do whatever you want. But without his votes, they could not proceed. And Mr. Vunage found the guy somehow and he shows up. Hey man, I I'm sorry. I'm not holding this up and it was a grace and everything's fine now. So, but the point is if sometimes there's seven in this HOA, seven people and he didn't he's a recluse. So, anyway, you run into all kinds of stuff. Sorry, Vicki. Go ahead. Absolutely. Okay.

The other thing answer the second part was to Mrs. Clark. I I I appreciate what you're trying to accomplish by your motion, but I respectfully am going to disagree with you because I think that when you start to add all those things in, you tie the hands and and I have no idea how successful anything was 10 years ago, but here we all are, a diverse group of people, diverse group of opinions, and we're applying it to today's what we know today and going forward the best that we can. So, um I I just think that if we start trying to delineate this is obviously it's just my opinion, but if we start saying you have to do this and this and this and this, I think it ties our hands too much.

We have to have a way to measure it. But we're doing I think we're doing pretty good. Well, because we have Joe. Yes. But we also all live in the city and we see what's working and what's not working. So, thank you. Michael, just input on that subject. Yes, just a comment on uh I'm all for uh measuring goals and achievement, but to drill down to every element of this plan and come up with what's the goal, what's the criteria for measuring it, that sounds like a daunting task to me to to do that.

We're doing at the top of the pyramid department or the other, right? Well, it I think I understand what we're trying to accomplish. We want to know from this 10 years to the next 10 years what we should be working on and did we do the last 10 years worth of stuff so we know what the next 10 years are. How many are carrying forward? How many drop off and how many go away? But I agree with the measurement, but it should not, my opinion is it should not be this group. It should be Yeah. the mayor

and Mr. Lee sitting down and filling in the blanks. And all you're I think I'm hear you saying is, "Hey, let's put the boxes out there and let's let the appropriate people fill them out." Is that what I'm hearing?

That's all I'm I'm saying is they're they're doing it they're doing it anyway. And it might be just something in a database that can just automatically go into this actions of one thing or another from different departments. But when we sat down with this with this to look at anyway I need I'm not as smart as a lot of people. So, I need to be able to see to understand did this goal that I'm reading right now, did it um fulfill what it was designed to do? And so, if it didn't, how do we need to adjust it? And I can look at the actions that were involved in what was done and it didn't complete the goal. or maybe there were no actions about that one goal and we need to make some more focus on that goal. And so I'm just looking at a way to to evaluate in a in a in a in a logical

may I offer a suggestion? Um you could you could amend there. I don't think there's a second on the floor. I'm a Robert's rules guy. So but you could amend and make a resolution to have Joe and the team um review a system and present present in the future. Maybe it's not the next meeting, maybe it's on down the line. Present back to everyone here about here's how we may do something and here's the goals that he's that are being created that he's they're the authors of right now that we're contributing. So maybe your resolution is this. would you would you look at it and report back to this committee before the end before you vote on the final a method and that might solve that might solve what you what you're wanting to accomplish which I think a lot of people agree with that it's just what's it going to be just have them look at it and report back on a method that's what I would recommend or

maybe maybe with Tom Lee and the mayor as well I I could amend my motion to um to to uh you know this is just an idea of how to put it in a matrix. Um so if there's another way to do it so that we have some recorded actions and maybe not all of them will be there probably not but at least we can have a guideline in 10 years to follow. I think the word needs to be and I think Joe help with that. Is that is that something Mr. Vonnage that

Well certainly my job is also to ensure that the department of planning and parks director and I think I can speak for Rick Brown is not to overburden us with additional reporting. Right. Right. for the most part includes us from doing core activities we have to do on a day-to-day basis, whether it's to replace a sign that falls off a post or go fix the toilet community park. But I think what you're basically trying to identify to me is accountability. Yeah. Maybe that's the maybe that's the approach.

We need to create a way to we achieve these goals. Looking back looking back how did we achieve that the accountability of implementing the plan if there's a if there's consensus on the group we can certainly invest in investigate that can come back and tell you this is a workable approach from our perspective having the three partners talk it's great yeah I just kind of report back and on something that you know how deep or not deep you want to Does it take a vote?

No, Teresa, I understand what you're saying. But in in my head, that's what we're doing. Except we don't have a piece of paper that says, "Yes, we accomplished this." No, we didn't. By reading this, we know what happened 10 years ago. We think back of what the city's accomplished. Have we accomplished that? Or do we still need to re put it in here as a goal or a policy and move forward with it? So to me, we're doing that and the difference is you want a matrix that you could check off, but in my head it's that's what we're doing.

Well, we Yeah, to me that's just um I anybody could do that. Anybody could just sit back and and read it and say, "Oh, well, we we finished that because I can see it out there." But we don't know. We don't know all of the details. We don't have any data to show one way or another. We just have what I think. And I don't like to go off of what I think. We know we know better than most people here. And we printed up thousands of copies of our last master plan and most of the people that got it and cared enough to read it, they they couldn't make those decision. You're you've been on council forever, right? and um and um forever.

Well, for a you've been you've been on council you've been on council forever or for a long time and you um and you know what's you have your finger on the pulse and most folks don't.

Yeah. Well, I I don't I don't know about that. I mean I I think a lot everybody in this room's reading the same thing and we know what last year's master plan said because it's listed in here. So you know like oh what was what the code enforcement so are you know are we enforcing codes that's something you can measure by matrix but a a lot of these we can sit here and at least Joe or one of the one of us can say oh well this happened this this is exactly like the roads and what did that cost and that all comes in here and when you read this from last time to this time I I think that's what you're doing, but it's not written down on paper. Um, and I don't think it's got anything to do with how long I've been on council. I think it's a matter of reading this, studying, studying, and looking at the pre previous master plan. But I understand what you're saying. But

I I I don't think I mean, we're all interested in in moving this forward and doing the best for the city. And I think that's what we're here to do. Sure. Can we all agree that Scott's proposal is an excellent adaptation to Teresa's proposal? There was no second so it can be amended. There's a motion and I amended it to be she amended it. He amended it essentially. Just Joe can recite back at the end and to the point that Joe and his team can tell us number one what's feasible and number two what's the best bang for the buck with the least amount of effort in the in the game. I'll second that.

Okay. Take a vote. Does everybody know the motion? No rephrase it please.

Can we do an individual vote please? And can I just make one one com? I mean, we discussed this a lot weeks ago and we decided to not go forward with this suggestion based on lots of good commentary. The only thing that I will add to this is per what Joe just stated earlier in this conversation, there's three departments. It's not like this huge matrix of different people that will take these goals in any kind of matrix that will be any more meaningful in my opinion than this. To me, this is the mission statement, the master plan for our city. And I would feel better not micromanaging who is in charge of each one of these things.

I think the people that are appropriate to do that are people in city government. We're not I mean that's how I feel. Yeah. It's not our will to do that. We don't want to do that. That's not our job. Yeah. That's the mayor and Mr. Lee's job. But we we as a team want to document some sense of direction and the answer is yes or no. And to me I feel like what we're discussing is the direction. To be clear on the amended resolution would just be have Joe and the team to to take what everyone's working on and and review it. But we're doing that and offering at a later time and report back. Take your vote and then

take a vote. Yeah, it's the same. I'm I'm with you guys by the way. So I mean I just All right. Point individual vote. Yeah. So the roll call vote. Could we uh restate the motion just so that everyone's clear and so that I'm clear? Repeat the motion. Yeah. Could we repeat the motion? What is the motion? Just so that everyone's clear on what with the amendment just so the motion is to um allow director Ronnage to take it back and and see if he can develop a um some sort of um

it's a tracking mechanism really is what we're looking for. Let's just call it. I think the goal is to have the three departments review the master plan and see if there's an accountability matrix that can be formed. I would give information to each and every resident for achieving the goal, how we're achieving it, steps if achieved, when it was done.

Can I make another point? I don't it's not micromanagement and it's not an accountability matrix. It is a um achievement uh matrix. Did we achieve the goals that we set out in our master plan? It's as simple as that. And it's not like somebody gets whacked on the knuckles if they didn't do it. It's just your is more favorable than the Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because it because you know the effort are we doing our job? You won't you don't you do not have the cycles to do everything that we demand of you and you have to make these executive decisions and everybody understands that. But if there's main things in the master plan, we need to be able to know a couple years down the road if Joe accomplished it or whatever. Take the vote, please.

Yeah. So, she said develop. I said review. Develop means to go and develop something. I do not support that. It was just a review. So, so what we're really talking about is Joe in feasibility study. Exactly. Do we can we take the vote? That's my motion. We haven't gotten the clear. Yeah. So, are you all right with Joe and his team doing a feasibility study and presenting his findings to us at a later date? If it includes the mayor and the and the city administrator and his counterpart. Melanie, are you clear on the motion? Yeah.

I I think so. Okay. Okay. Okay. Are we ready? Okay. Um, Chair Rajen. Yes. Um, member Baker. Nay. Member Batty. Here. Uh, member Boomer Schlaggel. No. Uh, member Clark. Yes. Member Clayton? No. Member Coleman? Yes. Member Deller, no. Member Hilfrey, no. Member Rubis, no. Member Jackson, no. Member Con,

no. Uh, member Mc uh, Council Member McCutchen, no. Member Mets. Uh, member Pick, no. Council member Rambo, yes. Member Ren. No. Member Shikam. No. Okay. Okay. 12 to 4. It fails. Okay. Probably the last time. Thank you.

I'm going to make a recommendation to the team that we get back to this document. We start with objective number one. We finalize it before we move on to objective number two. And let's get this done.

Looking for input on object. Our goal number one again to summarize one is being recommended to be cease to follow up is requesting a motion and second consideration. We have to make a motion on each one or can we just vote? I think we've done a motion.

I make a motion retain this. I'll second it. All in favor? I next one is planning effort should be reported before meeting between other jurisdictions, service providers, etc. For the most part, what I'm saying is is we need to basically have a little strengthened statement first. Make a motions to accept. Okay, that's my motion. I'll second. I'll second. Now that includes the Wildwood first.

Means when we make decision, at least the goal is we look at the impact on our residents first, not other constituents. Okay. But is that what the thing's going to say? Why I would for Okay. Second. So, the motion is we're going to put some teeth into it, but we're going to leave it as is. And all in favor? I opposed. And just to clarify, the presidential was to revise and implement all the first program. the teeth. Yes. Great.

The next is land use planning. Land use and planning decisions need to relate closely to our other elements inclusive services etc. Paraphrase it as let's not do our planning decisions in back then that Mr. Chair Yeah. So Joe, um when when you talk about open space and parks, so I'm thinking about some of the projects we've done before, but when you talk about open space, a lot of times, you know, there's some over there's um open space here, there's open space here, but it's not contiguous. And I know you have to have x amount of open space depending on the acreage. So is there is there a way and would it make sense if the um open space is contiguous because that way you could actually do more with that open space like you could have an neighborhood gazebo there or fire pit or benches or whatever that subdivision would like. So is does that make sense or does that not make sense to have cont contin contiguous open space

having more than having larger contiguous property is always better than having isolated pieces of property. So I think the point being is sure that the gold reflects something into that. I don't quite know how to make that goal say that right now to help me. But

so that would be it's basically it says it revi retain and revise create a decision matrix to reflect key relationship between the elements and interact and how they interact and apply to a planning project. So I think the next step is to provide you a matrix that basically creates that relationship so you know that we're getting continuous space not isolated individual pieces of property of the coordinator relationship matrix the word matrix up. Okay.

What we could just say and say that word continuous open space. So just put that one word in there. I'll hear what everybody else thinks. You say when feasible. Yeah, that's probably a good thing they just possible. So we

So I'm just gonna ask a question for my own understanding in this final link to Mr. Bunage in my neighborhood where we have the links. So, how when she says when Miss McCutchen says contiguous open spaces, I I don't understand what would you do differently like in that that neighborhood because the open spaces are what they lakes. They're the islands. Am I wrong? I I'm not understanding them. So, I'm trying to understand it.

So, I'm gonna probably give you a little more complicated answer than I should. So, view it as we're layering building a cake and we're doing layers of the cake. So there's a site that's been submitted for development purposes. First and foremost the developer will look and put the streets on the ridge lines requires the least amount of grading gives a level platform for the street safe next to the street. So that's the first layer. Where's the best place to put our infrastructure networks and cycle? Second area is um our resource protection standards. After you do that, we know the vides will generally be the least protected area. The ridges are next to valleys and the valleys are the most protected area. So in some instances we've put our streets, we put our resource protection and all of a sudden we know can't develop there. Also the valleys are where all of our storm water improvements go. So that's the third layer. And then we add our public space requirements to that and we try to link those all together not necessarily as a contiguous piece of property that might not be practical but as Mr. Rain mentioned where we do that so to speak so that there is a contiguousness that allows the open space that's been dedicated in your subdivision to actually be accessible and hopefully usable. So saying all of that once we set the streets pretty much everything follows that.

Okay. Thank you. And actually that wasn't too much. That was Should we consider combining three and five?

I would argue five is more about a practice the city would undergo in terms of its purchasing. Are we doing everything that we say we can do to protect the environment? Is that inclusive of you got recycled paper this do that? This the other is more land use is just saying that when we present a land use proposal with recommendation to finance zoning commission or city council have we taken into account the other elements of the master plan. We're doing historic preservations ensuring that community service are from the perspective people accommodating years ago school district growth was so fast out here they were basically teaching kids in trailers like that growth was exceeding the capacity of the school district to have space for the kids. So concurrency is what it's called. And so from the perspective of the department, we just want to make sure this is approved. You know, you can't make decisions if we exceed what what services can.

Have you revised the the verbiage for goal three there? I have not because I didn't want to make the assumption that you are agreeing. You have to tell us Travis. Well, Robin or not, if we're gonna if we're gonna include open spaces and all that, I mean, I I don't see where that really affects not having it. So just from a general work perspective, we what we when we say recommended action, that's what we don't change it until you tell us it's okay. So that's

I'd like to know what is okay. I mean, I'm okay with this. It sounds like some people want to add something to it and I want to know what we're adding so I can

Well, in this case, we have at the end of each of the elements a a table that shows the inter relationship of the goals to different objectives and policies. I don't think it says much because almost all the goals reflect that that isn't it's it's kind of an it's kind of false information. What the department wanted to do is retain what we have but give a better way of understanding how all these things that are related to a particular decision. And so I called it a a a decision matrix. It may not be that.

It may not be something you all agree with. It's a simple gold plan in a vacuum. I think that's sufficient. Well, no. Then I'll make a motion that we accept the verbiage here on this goal for a sex. I'll second. Oh, that means that with the comes out recommended enhancements, right? Is that No, because he hasn't made this approving this. Well, I guess what the department's asking you to to act upon is what's the recommended action? Do you concur with that as as as part of this? Yeah.

So essentially revising what the existing was to reflect additional information as you directed. That's it. So that's that's what I Hey, we have a motion. We have a second.

So the intent is you We provided you the existing wording of the goals. So when we give a commentary then we have a recommended action. I guess either I'm asking you we are asking you to either support the recommended action and vote on that or if you don't say retain but no change. So that's the concept. We take the goals as they exist as well as the objectives and policy seriously. But I think there we should be able to show better maybe this is part of the accountability how we how we reach our decision by using the six elements that are not the components

not the yes well this pretty well describes that right well again if it's too complicated or if you think it's unnecessary that basically says, "Don't be stupid. Plan well." You know, that kind of thing. Well, it's the goal, right? This we're way up here with it. Yeah. We're at We're not down here yet. So, I I am going to second his motion to accept what you said or goal. It's retain and revise as stated, right? That's what you said. Yeah. I'm seconding that.

All in favor? byain. Next goal is the new one that basically said to protect residents investments in property buildings and structures and that's the for most part ensuring that code enforcement nuisance activities property sanctions are prioritized and secondary to other activities of the city. through city ordinances and national codes.

Well, the only national codes that are applied are the building codes. We do have a role with that. So, building, electrical, mechanical, structural. Um, so is it worth fine-tuning? That's a decision for all of you. What did you say? National code. Yes. But what did he what was your question? You said

protect residents investments in properties, buildings and structures through the enforcement of uh Wildwood ordinances and national codes. Do we want to have Wildwood ordinances and national codes? So is that prebuilding or post building construction?

In most instances, it's both. A development site can be left to to neglect, meaning that it's a vacant site, but nobody's taking care of it. So the grass grows out the street blocks visibility. It creates a drivers a driving hazard. It can be a development site where like we talked about the homeowners associations people are cutting their grass gets on their neighbors nerves and it creates an issue. So it can be both I think and I'm open to anybody opinion if it's not.

Doesn't doesn't the city codes though have to reflect county and state and federal? So it all narrows it down to if they pass on the city, it's all okay. Is am I right?

We cannot be contrary to federal law, state statute, and in some instances common regulations. But in in the context of planning and land use decisions, we can certainly that's a very broad or very simple set of regulations. It's for the most part it's more procedural in state statute telling how you have to post the public hearing doesn't go into the details that makes swall what protects swab.

I'm going to make a motion to approve it as it's stated because once again we're up here and we're not down here. If it's just a goal I think that the way it's worded is just fine. So my motion is to approve it as stated. Second that Joe, do you need how are you going to enforce it? Do you need to state how you're going to enforce it or are you going to leave it broad? I think as a goal it's it doesn't need an enforcement component. That may come later in the policies.

Okay, sounds good. Okay, all in favor. All opposed passes through. The next one is develop climate friendly and salient steps for city purchases.

Would this belong in environmental certainly could if that that's the consensus of the group. We can push on that. First of all, is it something you believe is necessary? And if it's not, then it shouldn't be in there. If it is something you want us to explore in the future, the next 10 years, then yes, we can put it anywhere you like. Sydney,

I mean, I feel like it is in alignment with our discussion and the environmental piece. So I mean I think it definitely is something that I think is value added. Um if we want to put it combined with something else I would enter entertain that. But G9 combined with G9 uh address the city's resilience to a changing climate and planning developing and all its resources. That would fit right in there. So, but also not even put in there because it kind of that's already says it kind of but you know Oh, you're talking about the the environmental, right?

I mean, if we think we need it here as well, I'm fine with that. But I guess my point was that I like that. Oh, you like that? business. When you read that, wasn't that talking about solar panels, electric vehicles, uh lead buildings, and things like that that you use those as examples?

The city owns a great deal of property, doesn't have a whole lot of structures and buildings, but it has a fleet of vehicles. We have a lot of rideway. Are there things we can do relative to our purchases? The striping material we use on roads, is that is that environmentally friendly or should have some side effect? Here's a hypothetical. You need to replace a vehicle. You go out and you get kids. An electric vehicle is $2,000 $3,000 more than a US vehicle. Are you obligated to go with this and buy an electric vehicle?

It's not a law. So no, but when we present the bids and say we've done regular gas vehicles and we've done a EVs, the cost is more, but our goal in our master plan says we should be more climate conscious, have salient steps to protect the environment. So it's a decision based upon funds, but it's also there's a backdrop to is this following or what? I can see why it's clearing. Okay. So, I I'm truly not trying to make everybody crazy, but I will say that when we had this discussion with solar panels, I did my research. Travis will tell you I handed him a whole lot of stuff about a lot some of these things, not all of them, but some of these things are very climate friendly on the front end and then on the back end they're an absolute disaster. So as in point would be solar panels which I'm all for but they are a disaster when you take them down. So I think that if we're going to do something it should be a goal and it should be extremely vague because in 5 years something totally different in technology might be around and we don't want to I don't think we want to to hamstering ourselves in there and and I also think that when you speak about environmental and environmental protection that you're not doing anybody a favor if you don't follow it all the way through to the end. So that's my that is my personal

to build on what sorry to build on what you just said consider environmental impact decisions on all purchases it means you looked at you considered it but you're talking about purchase what about disposal well what I mean if you've got a purchase I mean it was regarded you could add that in there like shortmite Yeah. I mean, so just just don't just don't put us in a box where we can't they call that life cycle, right? End to end. Yeah.

So, I got a question. Does this does this is this about what we do from the city or what our suppliers are doing? You know, like are they a a green company? Are they um I mean I I you've got the three things here. Greenhouse gases, plastic, and other throwaway waste. What about um energy? What about water conservation? What about I mean I think that there's some more things that could go in there instead of less. And I like it in this spot because of the purchases part of it. I see where you were going with that because it is a planning issue with the city and not it's it maybe it could be in both I don't know and the environmental and this but because it's a purchase it would be a goal for um you know just waste management and climate change. There's just a few other things I would put in there not just greenhouse gases, plastic and throwaway waste. It was intentional not to advocate for laws mandating it on residents. It's just the easiest thing we can do is control how we react and people see that we're doing right or wrong thing. They can make their decisions at their own home. That's part of it is just being a leader and you do it to protect the environment. budget management.

Yeah. Oh, of course. Yeah. Very much so. That'll always play a role in the most everything was bottom line. It's like if we can't afford it, then we can't do it. And I propose a motion to combine some overall input that basically says consider the shortterm and long-term environmental impact on all city purchases. I'll second that. And you restate that. You restated.

Yeah. consider the long impairment short-term impact on the environment on all city purchases.

All in favor? Does it Can I ask a question though first? Does it make any sense to have um the life cycle element in there? For example, you buy a gas powered car, it's cheaper. Gas costs a certain amount versus electric costs and so forth. It's really easy to get to the right number. Same thing with solar panels. The entire, you know, the the positive and negative impacts and the cost associated with that from cradle to grave. It that's kind of what we're trying to do. So maybe it's maybe we have some explicit sentence or word or something like that in there that does that as well. I think short terms immediate and long terms.

Well, life cycle I was getting at life cycle like title degree life cycle. Life cycle and disposal. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, you you come up with the verbiage. Why don't you let us We know what you're I think we know what you want in terms of the of the gold. Why don't you let us figure it out and bring it back to you? Okay. Got a vote though. We have to vote. Well, a vote to let him. Yeah. I mean, all in favor, Joe had come back. I

the next one is preserve wild with history culture through catalog and interpretation and preservation. This is a new goal and obviously is reflective of our efforts most recently as well of trying to preserve those things that make wild unique. I'll make a motion we accept that. Have a second. All in favor? I

Hey Joe, I've got just a quick question. Sorry to interrupt. Like right above that, you have added new goal that ensures, you know, updating on regular intervals. Is that kind of out of scope now?

Well, I forgot to add the goal, but over. I apologize. I we we collectively missed it and obviously I didn't pick it up. So, I'll have something for you at the next meeting. The seventh final goal is develop and focus city resources protecting the nine watersheds that define Wildwood. And if you're not familiar, we've had a watershed erosion task force group volunteers. We've been working on all of the issues we have in the nine watersheds. It would be a list, I think, if we didn't do something to address the efforts of that test. Who who is responsible sheds? The state, the R4, the NSD? Is there any private ownership? All of the above. So if it's a water federal which is in the state government which leads you to MSD which then leads you to us

MS above us. It's an entity. It's a charter agency tax and accommodation authority. In many ways it's a higher level but they also have jurisdiction all the city all the same portions they don't go west I I don't want to get into a big discussion or anything but it seems to me that the problems that we're having and the lack of cooperation that we're getting we need to get all these people together and saying I don't know how many cities have nine waterheds in them?

I don't think there's many. I I wouldn't think so. And and this is a a a problem and and the state and MSD and they all want to say, "Hey, it's your problem." But if you try to do something, they're going to come in and say, "Hey, that's our responsibility or that's our ownership." And so, you know, we need to have a come to Jesus meeting with all Are you recommending? Yes, I'm recommending. Well, that's why I said I I don't you know this one here is is fine,

but this is above our level. This is something that the mayor needs to initiate. Well, I will just tell you that there's a standing committee of city council 8 members, administration public works. They have been talking a great deal about our nine watersheds and basically it's come down to we can't depend on the state legislature and the governor. We've tried to find federal funding. Multiple times have been unsuccessful. And so their their pitch now is we're going to have to do it locally if we're going to solve the problem. and they're talking about other funding methods. Um, one of which

and it's it's going to take educating the citizenry about what the problem is in all the complications that are connected to it so that we're all with one voice. I have a question. This is maybe not the best question, but is the major problem with these watersheds erosion? Yes. And who is what is causing besides de um development that I'm just asking because I don't know said something that's why I'm laughing. I'm sorry. I'm not up to date on watersheds and I'd really like to understand it better.

Well, there's a lot of causes and I don't know if they're in order priority or what rules and poor policies employed by St. Louis County. here that were used elsewhere but the characteristics here are very and you were talking about all that grading that was irresponsibly done and that's has caused the problems with the wersheds that's one okay um the standards that were used for storm water management were deplorable okay my opinion they were established by the home builders association of greater sanct okay

not not an entity a governmental entity Um, so that's it. Most recently, it's just the crazy storms we're getting. I I just wanted to understand the situation better. That's all. Oh, and part of it is the legacy problem. Part of it is is what we're just seeing. We get storms to charge in terms of how much rain you're deliver. Thank you. I missed it earlier. two, one,

the city and the council has done their best to get all these key players together either one by one or as a group and we cannot get them to support in any way our watershed erosion problems. I I can't tell you how many times I've had MSD and more five and gotten nowhere even with a group of people. They're just not going to help us,

you know. Now, MSD does have a list and you can get ranked by projects. Then they'll pick their projects and and they will do those. But just in general, they're they're really no help. Now, that's my opinion. I don't know Joe agrees with that or not. Um, so I, you know, we've tried. Not to say that we won't keep trying. No, I I just problem. Yeah, I you know,

but we just can't sit here and let it happen. I mean, we got 35,000 people. Next big storm, we may have less than 35,000 people. The rest of them will be located somewhere downstream. Well, we've got a couple houses right now that that are close. Yeah, that are very close. I I I really don't have anything. Thank you. I other than I would make a motion that we do put this in as a goal. I think that's a good goal to have. So as a goal second all in favor I have a wait

I have an amendment to the goal. Um, just I would amend the goal if possible to include because this is just one of those examples of what maybe not everyone knows that um the watershed erosion task force is working on this storm water master plan and um and they have I mean Joe Farmer has done so much work on putting together the data to follow and to make the make it better and along with um Joe Venich they have come up with a a really good plan for addressing this even though we have re been rejected by the governor and different things and they are on a good um pathway. So I would include that in the goal. I would amend it to include um uh based on data from the storm water master plan if that's the one that that you think has got the most in it. It's got all-incclusive I would say that based on the data from the storm water master plan.

Vicki, you okay with that? No, I I I want just I like just the way it says. I don't think it should be restricted in any way. It's a goal that might come in or lower down, but it's a goal. So, it should be wide and open and farreaching. In four years, we might say we're not going to have a watershed protect task anymore or we might change the name. And now it's it's it's in this. So I think that this is the big picture and I think that we can add that as we get down lower and say use this data and your motion passed. It would require another motion to amend. Yeah.

Well the the amend the motion to amend. If it's seconded it is voted on first and then it goes to the motion. We already voted. We already voted on the motion and we didn't I you He said get a second and I said no wait. I'm Was the motion voted on? I have a motion and a second. I don't think that it was voted on unless I miss it.

He said all in favor I. Everyone said I. And there was a pause and she says I would like to add an amendment. So I was I said I we have amendment at the same time he said we can I think came in right after the vote but let's assume it let's assume that it did does not mean that you can make another recommendation with slightly different verbiage that addresses your issue.

Flight motion would be to amend approved motion to include that's correct. Dark water manage because they have worked on this so much to get it down to the to how we're going to do it. Joe, are they the driving force? It is for all intents and purposes it will it will define everything we done everything we hope to do and how to do it. So it is a comprehensive approach to the nine water.

Is the water shed erosion committee or task force is that an ad hoc committee or is that permanent?

It was intended to be temporary. Um, we're on our fifth year as I've mentioned. Um, I think there was an assumption that the situation wasn't as bad. We found out very early on it was. Then there was also an assumption despite the situation, there's got to be money for this. Everybody must be going through this. You know, our weather isn't just isolated to St. Louis. Could we could we insert something in here as a goal or something that we make the task force permanent and a sunset clause of the next 10 years? Actually would suggest that as a policy. Okay.

So the overall goal is to protect the nine watersheds. policy how to achieve that is to retain water erosion task force until we have a have a have a set of solutions. I would I would change that amendment then to include the watershed u or the the stormwater master plan in the in the policy. Yeah. Second. And is that as a policy? Objective. As a policy, is it a policy or an objective? Yeah. Sec. I'll second.

Plan's very specific. So I I I would prefer it as a policy, but certainly if there's other opinions. Does that need to be an amendment or is that just a new motion because it's in a policy? So that passed and then either way it's going to work out for you it sounds like. So what's the most correct way? I'm just It doesn't matter. I guess you're going to put in the policy, right? Well, unless you tell No, unless there's a vote to add a policy. Yeah. Robin,

uh I was just going to note that we have a similar instance in here. Of course, we haven't voted on anything. Um but we have preserve Wildwood's history and culture through cataloging, interpretation, and preservation of their city's important landscapes and landmarks as a goal. And then we have adopt and implement the city's historic preservation plan as an objective. Um maybe it'd be more appropriate as a policy, I don't know, but it's a very similar situation. Okay, let's back up to where are we? He's got a great idea to combine them. Yeah, go ahead. State the

motion to combine. There you go. Yes. And that's your motion. I'll second it. What What is the motion? Lewis has stated that we, as Robin just identified, we have a goal and objective for historic preservation plans for the for the watershed erosion. We combine the two. the national plan for storm water management combine the historic preservation plan and make it a single goals and have policies for them. Am I saying that you just combine the same thing? Yeah,

maybe I missed. Well, there are two planning documents. Should they are they do they deserve two separate goals and sets of polic objectives and policies? We combine them and then just have a single set of objectives and policies for both. Forgive me because you want to combine historic preservation with watered the plan. Okay. The planning documents not necessarily the objectives and policies were all intents of purpose I think still be separate because they address different things. Right. So not combined to combine them.

Does that make sense? It it it does to me. I'm I'm I followed exactly what Mr. Shik was saying. Yeah. I mean because it still has this different objectives and policy, right? They're geared towards the same point. So you would be considering that the watersheds are a important landscape essentially that yeah certainly are but I guess I'm looking at more as they're two documents that are intended to guide planning decisions and so that's why we would combine them but from that point we would separate them out because the objectives and policies would be different for both

so why not leave them as they are as separate entirely up to this your opinion what you as as as the director of planning what what your opinion would be what you think would be the best way to handle it.

Well, from the department's perspective I think keeping them separate probably would be best. I think there's might be a tendency to kind of not treat each as equal partners in the process. I think they need to be. So we need a storm water management master plan. We need our historic preservation plan and we combine them. Obviously it's a goal. I think it's the devil's in the details. So why don't you let us talk amongst ourselves if it matters at all. They are very two very different things in my mind.

Two very different things because we're Yeah, I don't I don't see any similarities at all. So I I just that's why I'm I'm struggling with it. I don't I understand the idea, but I don't I think they're to totally different things or order. Did we have a motion in a second? Yeah, we got to dispose of that motion. There's a way to do that. Just table it. Motion the table. Just motion the table it and it's over. And then it that stays in the abyss if it's never brought up. So it's over. Everything stays separate. So since I made the second, I can't do that. So someone say I make a motion at the table. It's over. That's if you want to not have the motion acted upon table.

Correct. And it sounds like no one wants to. You don't have to vote it down. Just say motion table. We're done. I have a question. procedure. Can I make a motion to keep those two separate? Close the table. Yeah. When you motion the table, you've done that and you can make the motion to table. It does exactly what you want to do. All right. I make a motion table and that's done. It's that they're separate just what everyone wants that need to be voted on. No vote required. Correct. You have to have a second. It's not on that table. Someone seconded it anyway. It doesn't matter.

We got a motion. Doesn't Yes, sir. I just want to make the observation that really was a smart point to focus on the the actual product work product, the the historical document, the watershed document, and make that the focus of the goals. And so in your verbiage, if you could do that, I think that would satis probably satisfy everybody. They can do it. How's the view on?

So that's the set of goals and there's still one question left. You all miss anything? Should we add something to plan what we talked about? the um strategic planning process go in this because we've developed that over the last five well five years now and we um so the in a planning and the planning element I would think the strategic planning process would be ident.

And if you're not familiar, uh, each city council approves a five-year strategic plans that guides the decision making process. It covers the example of things current strategic plan. Second goal was to basically find new resources and the third was to address storm water erosion. So there's general given the fiveyear time frame because it is a it is a planning document that the city council depends on. So it's an omission on my part of consideration

and I I think yeah just outlining the process would be really helpful to the next people that do it because it took us to just come up with this process a lot of council meetings that's I was since this is a planning document should we not have some sort of goal related to development you know development of subdivisions developer

I think you'll see that as we get into the objectives and policies and if not then we can certainly with your permission take a stab at the strategic plan as I say I think it was a mission bring it back to you and let you see what we've done. I'd love to see it. Okay, Mr. Chair, it's 8:21. I would probably say it's a good point to conclude if there's no other additional needles to consider. So,

I I have a request and I'm so sorry because I really hate asking you guys for stuff because I know how much you do for us. But when we come back next and we go over the objectives, is there any way because we're goals and objectives and policies down, is there any way that when you have an objective that you could just kind of say this supports above goal number one or whatever just so we know because if I if I understand it correctly, that's how it should go. We shouldn't have an object there somewhere that's just kind of hanging out on its own and doesn't support a goal we listed above. Am I correct in that? Certainly there should each goal should have a set of some objectives and policies to achieve.

So you know for example like when we look at the first if you would if there's any way that you could say to us you don't have to write down you could just tell us this first objective is for goal it supports goal number four above or whatever that would be truly helpful to me personally. Well we'll certainly give it a we'll give it a whirl. I mean even if you could just say it that would be great. Thank you so much. It'll be a single sheet. So that basically creates the inner relationships. Thank you. Really, you'd only have to do it on the new ones, right? Because you've got it here in the page on existing. That's why I think it's reasonable or something that we can accomplish.

We'll incorporate what's there to do.

Okay. Next meeting will be August 19th. I just want to make a short statement about our discussion tonight. I think we had a really good discussion. I think we might have got off in the weeds a little bit, but Jim was all gathered around and we brought it back and we were very pointed and very structured in getting through these objectives or these goals rather. So, I really appreciate all the input. I appreciate the uh just the amount of effort it took to get what we got done. So, thank you very much. Motion to adjourn. Yes. All

in favor.