Master Plan Citizen Oversight Group - 2026 - Regular Meeting

on video.

Can I have everybody's attention, please? Welcome, everybody, to meeting number 22. I think we're all very interested in hearing from Mr. Boonage on the one or two meetings we have left. And we'll get very close to the end with a very detailed plan. So thank you all again for all the help and appreciation and input. Joe, would you like to take roll? Or Travis?

Okay. Mayor Garitano, Chair Routon.

Here.

Vice Chair Loyal.

Here.

Member Avery, Member Boomer Schlegel, or no, Baker, excuse me. Commissioner Member Beatty, Member Boomer Schlegel, excuse me, thank you. Commissioner Member Boren, Member Clark, Commissioner Member Clayton. Here. Member Coleman. Here. Commission member Depler. Here. Commission member Helfrey. Member Homan. Commission member Rubis. Here. Commission member Jackson. Member Cohn. Member McCutcheon.

Yes.

Member Metz. Here. Member Pick. Council member Rambo. Here. It's here via Zoom. Member Wren. Here. Member Shakin, and Commission Member Gettinger. Thank you.

And we have a quorum. Would you all please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance? I pledge allegiance to the flag.

Thank you. Regarding minutes of last meeting, do we have a motion to accept? Deborah, do we have a second? Michael?

all in favor aye any opposed the minutes the motion passes thank you mr moonich thank you mr chair

Mr. Chair and members of the group, I'd like to echo the chair's comments and thank you for your attendance tonight. Certainly as we approach our 22nd meeting, we have imposed upon you a great deal Travis, Melanie, Robin, and I, along with many others in City Hall, want to extend our appreciation again, as often as necessary, to ensure you understand how important it is to the city and to us as your planners. So thank you. As always, we have freshly made coffee, cold drinks, water, and snacks. Ms. Clark earlier today brought by the homemade cookies, so please help yourself. You know she is a very good baker. Tonight, we have several kind of last component things to talk about. As you are aware, we kind of done the heavy lifting and finally completed those tasks. The heavy lifting for the most part were the six elements, the goals, objectives and policies. And to your benefit, you were patient with the process and we went through each and every one of them. to conclude with what we believe now is a very updated, germane, and I think at least from the perspective of the department, will stand the test of 10 years and stand it very well. Along with the elements, we talked about land use, which is always a difficult process. Because there's winners and losers. And I think in this particular case, we always have to try to make the city the winner. So sometimes people leave a little disappointed or very disappointed. But I think in this particular instance, the five property owners did receive, I think, accommodations for their particular situation. So again, job well done. And then finally, at our last meeting, we completed the narratives. That portion of the document that goes along with the elements and kind of explains how we got where we got and what we're doing over the next 10 years. As mentioned tonight, we are here to do kind of some cleanup. The first item relates to the next step in public input. The second item relates to the actual format or components of the plan. And then finally, the dreaded updated or revised meeting schedule. So with no further ado, I'll get to the first item. with the permission of the group the department engaged debbie ward of silver tablet marketing to prepare the second survey that would be administered to residents business owners visitors and others with interests in the city of wildwood As you'll recall, Ms. Ward developed the first survey that was used when we started this process back in February, March and April of 2025. I believe as a group, along with city staff members, we thought that survey was a success and that we received almost 800 responses and information provided in tonight's packet, there is a map that reflects where those responses came from. Ward 8, where we have town center and seems to be the epicenter of recent development, obviously, was an area where you received a great number of responses. We also received a good number from Ward 1 and other wards 2 and 3, et cetera. So all in all, I think the survey achieved the goal. And I think in most part, it was due to Ural's participation in the edits, as well as Miss Ward's initial effort. So with your permission, we engaged Ms. Ward. Ms. Ward did prepare the survey and draft form that you have before you tonight. It's very similar in format. To what we use the last time at the start of the process, and I think that's important so as when participants from last time see it hopefully they'll remember or recognize it and again do what they did the last time and participate. Also, a couple of things that Melanie Robin travis and I asked is that we retain the open ended questions at the end of the survey I think those are sometimes the most informative and helpful. What people think or didn't see in the survey that they want in the survey, or at least a response they want to provide. And also we asked for email addresses again. This time we think with the email addresses. Once the plan is done, our intent is the department is to send them a link to the actual plan. once adopted so if they want to see oh did my comments get addressed or is this something i i'm interested in we'll have the opportunity to view it on our website and hopefully be satisfied with the product that you've all worked very very hard to complete so debbie ward prepared it Along with the draft survey, we also went ahead and provided you the survey instrument from the original process, as well as the results. So you could kind of compare the two and see the evolution of the development. So the goal tonight is to talk about the survey. First and foremost, if there's anything that you see that shouldn't be there, anything that is missing or anything that you'd like to question or make a suggestion, that's what we're here for tonight. Ms. Ward is not available. We had talked with her. She had planned a vacation well in advance of tonight's meeting, but everything that you provide will be forwarded to her. And at the meeting where we do talk about the results of the survey, this board will be attending. And as you know, she did, I think, a very good analysis of all the results for us, which gave us some insights to our community and the direction we should go. So with that, I've talked to Mr. Raine. There's a couple of items he's identified, but certainly this is your time to give it a thumbs up, thumbs down, or somewhere in between. And thank you Mr. Chair.

I was looking at questions five and six where we talk about various items like pollution and ecosystems and such. And I'm wondering if it would be appropriate to add in deer management to get the opinion of what people think about that.

With the permission of the chair? Well, Mr. Rain, as you mentioned when we talked before the meeting, if you do not know, the Department of Administration, our city administrator at the direction of city council is conducting a random statistical valid survey relative to deer management. We're using a professor, I believe now that's at one of the universities in Chicago or Milwaukee, formerly here at St. Louis University, to undertake that. But that survey is only being sent to a group of people in each of the wards, not available to the entire community. Ms. McCutcheon identified that. So I think there's a place for it if you all agree as a group.

I'll propose a motion to draft some language in items five and six to address deer management issues to keep a healthy population that's not destroying our ecosystem. You can say it better than I did.

I think you did it very well.

I'll second it.

And again, I just want to emphasize we have one, but it's not going to everyone. I think this is a great opportunity to address Ms. McCutcheon's concern she voiced at this past Monday night city council meeting.

I just had a real quick question. I might have missed it. How did you say we are conveying this survey to the public? Or did I miss that? Sorry.

Well, I did not. The channels we used last time principally were our website, our social media. The most successful item is always our electronic message boards that we place out at major intersections to advise residents of special events or road closures, things like that. And then we've asked Ms. Ward also to kind of delve in and see if there's something we're missing. Because obviously, I think everybody in the room shares the same sentiment. The more, the merrier. If we could get 1,600, that'd be great. But we sure like to get as many as possible. So it's not going to be male to each individual household anymore, given the cost of a male and the number of households. It's in the thousands of dollars.

Do we have like an email database? And the reason I ask is that I'm looking at this document here that shows, and when you look at the percentages, the percentages that are lowest is where we're someplace right next to Chesterfield or right next to Baldwin or right next to Eureka. So I'm wondering if there's an email database or something that we can do strategically to kind of reach those people. Thank you.

Well, tongue-in-cheek, Travis and I have done an extensive study of those two, those three areas, and seeing what's happening in Baldwin, Ellisville, and Chesterfield, those folks are just happy to be in Wildwood. In all seriousness, Obviously, we want to make this available to any and all. We did have email addresses on the first survey. So they'll get a notification just so at least 800 people in Wildwood, so to speak, will get notification. So add that to the list of the other items.

Well, we had the QR codes again, the cards we had. I remember we handed those out. Yeah. So long time.

And just so you are aware.

Oh, please.

So just so you are aware, as described, we've got kind of a plan of attack. So this Friday is one of our concerts. And we typically have about 1200 to 1500 people attend. And then Saturday, we have our centennial celebration for Route 66. So we're going to do a soft launch and make those cards available at the concert, as well as the centennial celebration. So we figure we'll get a good a number of people and They'll come by and we're just going to stick it in their bag or hand it to them and ask them to complete it. And then the formal launch will be that Monday, the 20th of July. So we're trying to be a little creative in terms of how we get the information out about the survey.

Sorry, how long will the survey be open?

To the 31st.

So we have like things to hang in the windows of Deerburg's and maybe hand it to Zix and have him put it out or Pasiglia's.

We'll have those posters or flyers and we'll, Schnucks, Deerburg's, Starbucks, they have those community bulletin boards. And so, yeah, we'll have those available. We'll have those posted. Thank you. You want to describe it?

So on your screens is what Ms. Ward put together for us for this round of the survey that includes the QR code that you mentioned, Ms. Helfrey. And then I would just also add, you know, as Joe said, we'll have these available at the event this weekend or the events over the weekend this weekend. And we can distribute the flyers to the businesses and community locations that we've done in the past.

Okay. Do you have extras of those?

Yeah, we can run copies for any of the members who want copies. Okay.

Again, if we have a favorable vote tonight on the survey, even if there are comments, Travis is capable of making the changes even though Ms. Ward's not available. But we didn't wanna run them until we had assurance from all of you that you were okay with the survey.

Thank you. Michael.

One of the most effective things we can do is to ask all of our friends and neighbors to fill out the survey.

Well, that's a great suggestion, Mr. Rain. But since I've been posed on you for 22 meetings and probably 18 months, I'm a little hesitant to ask for much more.

Deborah.

Yeah. So my question is, a lot of people don't really realize where town center is that, you know, the shape of town center. They think of it as right up here. So maybe we could put some kind of definition in here. I mean, a map too is okay, but a verbal definition as to what we consider to be town center, because it goes all the way up to Wildwood Middle School, you know, goes in the other direction. It's a little bit across the street. And I don't think people, they just think of this area, I think, when you say town center.

Well, and the fact that Deerburg's named their development Deerburg's Town Center and then Coleman Properties named theirs Wildwood Town Center, it probably isn't a sharp jump to assume, well, that's Town Center. So if there's no objection on the group's part, we'll add some kind of verbal description. And if there's a way to link to one of our maps on the website, we'll figure that out too so they can see it on screen if they like. Good suggestion. Thank you.

Any more questions, comments, or suggestions for this survey? With no further questions, I would propose a motion to authorize to proceed to public input with Joe's presentation. Do we have moved? We have a second. All in favor? Aye. All opposed? Motion passes. Thank you.

Yes, thank you very much. And I'll pass on to Ms. Ward your comments. And I hope that at the conclusion of the survey process, you'll find that people have really appreciated what you've done over the last 18 months. Mr. Chair, with your permission. Oh, Dr. Rambo.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Really a point of privilege here. I had my hand up, but I didn't get to comment. I fully support the notion of adding deer management to this. And I was hoping that we could make that clear in the motion we just voted favorably on to instruct her to do that. I assume that'll be done without it being a part of the motion. Joe, is that a reasonable assumption?

That is a very reasonable assumption. We will not omit it at any cost.

Awesome. Great. I think it's important. Thank you.

And Dr. Rambo, knowing your efforts on deer management, the department appreciates that support.

April.

Quick question. How does the timeframe for the survey come to be? Is there a particular reason we need it done by July 31st? Is that so that we can wrap these up? And the reason I'm asking is because July tends to be a slow month, big vacation month, right? Like we have Mrs. Ward, like my store has seen a decrease. And I wasn't sure if that continues through the month, if we might see a higher decrease. participation, if it could be extended another week or two, or if you guys found in your experience that going too long doesn't work.

And Ms. Baker, that'd be a great question for Ms. Ward, because that's what we, our question, Travis, Melanie, Robin, and I to her when we met was, how long? And she said, generally no more than three weeks. And with the soft launch, we'll be just right around that. So, and I understand that's the other component when we get to the schedule, we do plan on having an open house and we'll have some information on the survey that, you know, if you know of someone that your neighbor's out of town on vacation and they have an interest, please let them know we have an open house and that kind of thing. But certainly we could, let me explain it this way. All of my communications to you have lately said I would love to finish this in 2026. We have a schedule for the conclusion at City Council, which doesn't necessarily involve you anymore participating like you are tonight in November. If you want an extra week, that's great. We can factor that in. If not, we can see what we get. I think the key will be is if we're getting poor response, we'll probably extend it just so as we can give additional time to actually get a good sampling of the community. You're welcome. With your permission, sir. The next item is more of a housekeeping component. As you know, we handed out to you that very first meeting. I know it was a long time ago. The actual document, the master plan, it was in book form, had a lot of information on the front and in the back. And then the core components, again, were the narratives and elements. Tonight, the department would like to propose the format for the document. And since you are the author, so to speak, of it, it was only appropriate that it be presented for consideration. The current document and all of the others that have been in place since the inception of the city always have a title page and the department is recommending that. The title page is much like the charter or constitution that was approved by the voters back in 1997 and that it references each of the original adoption date and each revision adoption date. So that would be the title page, City of Wildwood Master Plan, That kind of information. Acknowledgements. In past, the mayor has written something acknowledging your all's participation and thanking not only you, but the community that provided comments, um came to meetings whatever the situation might be so that's something the mayor traditionally has done and i think it's a key component of any document recognizing you in particular pardon me for your your efforts in updating the plan um the table of contents a standard component just so i don't care about community services let me get to that environment stuff so they can go right to it instead of having to maybe page through the next item is the introduction and there are three components that the department identified from the existing document and i will note that all three of these components have been part of the document since the initial adoption in february 1996 and this is a synopsis of the planning history a brief history of the planning and development practices and then finally a population description so Turn the clocks back to September of 1995 there's a new city and we've come out of a period of time where St Louis county over a handful of years had approved almost 2800 new lots in the city of wildwood and so there was this. kind of well we can't do that and let that happen again and why did st louis county go from a county that had received awards for their planning practices to one that in many ways any development was good development and so jonathan barnett the author of the original master plan thought it appropriate to kind of step through how st louis county started with 1948 zoning ordinance, the 1965 zoning ordinance, the land element, et cetera, et cetera. And then kind of went through a brief history of planning and development practices in general here in Wildwood, and then from his perspective nationally. And then finally, whatever reason, we continue to basically throw darts at a dartboard and try to anticipate population growth in the city of Wildwood, which we've, in many instances, overestimated in the last 20 plus years. The department doesn't believe those are necessary. We're not a mature adult, but we're certainly not the baby we were. And having to reference back to what St. Louis County did to us, the impacts of their policies, I believe that's water under the bridge. However, the department is suggesting that at 30 years, and this is something Travis mentioned, It's that timeframe in a lot of cities or people's lives when they kind of forget, this is why we're here and this is the struggle it took to get here. And in our history book, a group of incorporators, along with others in the Department of Planning, created a history component for our history book. It contains, as you can see, information from almost day one, which was stop the outer belt, save the green belt, to the actual incorporation effort, which ended up at one point in the Missouri Supreme Court. And I think that's relevant information just to kind of keep grounding people that this wasn't by accident. This was a hard-fought effort that took a long period of time and the resources of a lot of people. So instead of kind of talking about what St. Louis County did to us, I think it's appropriate now to kind of talk about how we got here and keep reminding people that it's a unique community. We do things differently by plan, and it's all of ours responsibility, current residents, future residents, business owners, property owners, whoever it may be, to kind of remain true to that call. So the department would like to eliminate those past ones, particularly the population description. You might as well get a set of dice out and roll them as far as I'm concerned. But I think adding the history component from our history book would be a welcome addition. And certainly I think bring a good story as part of the plan. Then we jump into the six elements you're very familiar with them they've been good friends for the last year plus. The conceptual land use and the map and then the policy advisors will acknowledge you on the front end of the book, the plan. In the back end of the book, we'll acknowledge people like Travis and Robin and Melanie, Officer Fisher, those that have sat in the meetings with us, those that have provided insights, our professionals, our consultants, et cetera. Then there's the appendices. And in the past, we had two things that ultimately led to the content of the appendices. The first was much of Wildwood didn't have high-speed internet access. So for them to go online and look at the plans, such as the action plan, the town center plan, capital improvements, zoning and access, the mobility plan, they couldn't do it. So the idea was if they can't get to it, and that was at one point almost 50% of the land mass of Wildwood, we should make it available some way. So we made it the appendices, the background material that got us to the goals, objectives, and policies of the individual elements. OK. There are about 400 properties that don't have high-speed internet access now. Congratulations to all of you. You supported an effort that actually came to fruition. So I think the appendices now don't need the actual documents. And as you can see, some are dated. The most recent one, the Action Plan for Parks and Recreation, 2018. So why don't we just use links? And when those plans are updated, they get updated in the master plan just by the link itself. I do want to include... In the mass in the appendices the explanations relating to the land use changes, I think those are important, I think you did a very nice job. of working through those I also think the resident business surveys I think that's important to know that people who access the document know that you listen yeah. If you didn't participate, it wasn't because there wasn't an opportunity. And there may be a couple of other things that are ancillary, but this is the format I think we can go to. I think it achieves several things. It keeps the appendices, the document germane because we're linking to the website where all information is generally found and most recent information is generally found. I also think it slims the document down and gets to the core components. You don't have to muddle through a lot of stuff and try to figure out why is that there or not there. And then finally, I think it achieves the goal we all want, focusing on our goals, objectives, and policies for the next 10 years. Mr. Chair, there are questions, comments?

a bad idea good idea or somewhere in between we're glad to listen first of all i'd like to say thank you this is this was great you did a great job on that and i i love this history part at the front i think that's fantastic and so that kind of i'm going to piggyback on that i love pictures and so in the other room we had all those beautiful maps on the wall right the different areas watersheds all that stuff i would I would love to have the color maps in the book, but if you can't have them, a link to all of those maps would really be nice, because I think that people don't know what we have here, and to say it sometimes isn't as clear as seeing it. Thank you.

Thank you.

Regarding the history, can we take it verbatim from this? I mean, the copyright issues or anything?

None of that. To acknowledge it was Ron Marcantano, our first elected mayor, Sue Cullinane, Dan Vogel, our first city attorney, and Mary Ann Simmons. They provided information in the Department of Planning. We added some information. We softened a few things. There were some sharp edges because they fought the thought more so than most. But no, it's ours to use. Dr. Rambo.

Yes, sir. Yeah. First, I want to say that I agree with Ms. Helfrey. I think those maps are really great. We get ourselves into situations all the time where a lack of understanding of how much, you know, where the density exists in the city and those kinds of things are problematic for us. And some of those problems might go away if folks had a chance, you know, ahead of time to to look at some of those maps and so forth. But I really wanted to just comment on the history or actually asked a question about the history, because we have a number of sort of problematic situations that were a direct consequence of being part of the county. And I'm thinking, you know, weird, you know, areas where we have High density out in the middle of low density areas and those kinds of things. I think it's it's important to at least mention that. Yeah. Wildwood is doing a lot of cleanup or rationalization, I guess, is a more polite way to put it on those kinds of issues as opposed to the the the easy-peasy development that we had when the county was in charge. Do you think that's adequately addressed in the history part that you're going to attach, or do you think we still need to make a statement to that effect?

I have no objection to making a statement to that effect. As I said, a few of the sharp edges were addressed in the editing process, but I'd like to have a go at it if the group is agreeable.

What do you all think?

Motion to it. Good idea.

Yeah. Motion to include all in favor.

I need a second there, sir.

Well, I, I'll second it.

Okay. Thank you. So again, any other questions regarding the format?

I just had one thing, you know, you talked about wanting to remove some of the stuff from the introduction. One thing I think might be useful to, try to retain an introduction is kind of the definition of what a master plan is and what the purpose and the foundational basis for, you know, the future of the city. You know, I think people have an idea of what they think a master plan is, but it doesn't.

Well, we have excellent suggestion. We have master plans for development of individual sites. We call it a master plan when it doesn't have much information, like topography, things along those lines. So yeah, the name has many connotations and many applications. So if there's no objection on the group, I'd sure like to include that. Yes, please.

Motion to add that definition and intro.

So all in favor. Thank you. Just trying to stay with the rules here, Mr. Chair, sorry. So before I ask for a final motion on the components, at your chairs tonight. And I do want to acknowledge Melanie Ripto. I think she was up to the wee hours of the morning making this. And one thing the department would like to do is maybe have an executive summary at the front as the front page for each of the six elements. Something that's a little more colorful includes the QR code to the document. Um, and actually kind of highlights the strategic direction that this element has had. And then the news where the actions are additions. To the plan that were part of your 2025 and 2026 effort. Don't pay much attention to the wording. It was something that Melanie and I worked on this afternoon. But more so, we'd just like to know, do you think it would be nice to kind of have a summary at the start of each? So as if someone wanted to say, I wonder how many golds there are? Five. Oh, they mentioned Department of Natural Resources a lot. Sure. It's one of our partnering organizations. MDC, MDNR, St. Louis County, GRG, all the initials. So this is something we'd like you all to consider.

I like it. I'll make a motion to accept.

Jim seconds. All in favor? Aye. Aye. All opposed? Motion passes.

Thank you. And you'll see them in draft form as part of the document as we approach its adoption by you all. So again, we'll get you back something that has more meat on the bone. Mr. Chair, the department would respectfully request a motion and second to adopt the format with the amendments as made.

Make motion to adopt the format as suggested.

Jim, second. All in favor? Aye. All opposed? Motion passes.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair and members of the group, the final item is the revised meeting schedule. As you can see, we're here tonight on July 15th. I mentioned we'll do a soft launch of the survey this coming Friday, the 17th. The survey will close on the 31st. department will have the results of the survey by that monday august 3rd and i had put down august 11th as the meeting to talk about the survey results and it appears i picked the day that has conflicting meetings here at city hall So if it's all possible, I'd like to make that amendment to August 11th to August 6th. Sorry.

There's a lot of balls in the air.

But instead of number five presentation of survey results being August 11th, it would be August 6th. And the open house is being proposed by the department. Certainly, that's optional to all of you. We'll hold it. We're thinking somewhere other than City Hall to make it maybe a little more comfortable, less governmental. In past years, we've done that. We've used school facilities. We've used Rockwood Bank as a community room. We've used the community college. They have nice spaces, particularly in their new building. We'll let you know more about the open house. If you're not familiar, Representatives of the department and any of you that would like to participate, we'll just pick a span of about an hour, hour and a half to two hours. Offer people opportunities to come in and pick up, see copies of the document, its components, ask questions, provide input. And then we'll also ask them to fill out something and tell them as well what you like, what you didn't like. And ultimately, that comes back to you as well, those comments. And that's part of the process before we ask you to take a final action on the updated plan. Thereafter, as you can see, we're shooting for November 9th at City Council for them to endorse and ratify the updated document.

Joe, we talked about one more meeting, Mark. I'm a little confused.

I actually see two. The presentation of the survey results, the presentation of input from the open house, and I made the assumption we might be able to take final action at the end of August. So two more.

So originally we were in 22nd, 28th. Now we're eliminated. We're looking at August 6th. And August 25th. 23rd. 22nd. Yep.

Yep.

Yes, sir. On August 3rd, isn't that the regular planning and zoning?

That's just a key day for you to know. That's when the department will get the results of the survey from Debbie Ward. If all goes well, you'll get them the same day. Probably that afternoon, Mr. Newberry will send them via email to you with the agenda for the August 6th meeting.

So August 25th then is the proposed cut.

That's it. Unless there's something.

Is that when our salary stops?

Yeah, I think that's it. I think Travis, Melanie, Robin, and I will do everything in our power to kind of bring it to a close for all of you. I do want to mention Ms. McCutcheon and I had a conversation today, and she had a couple of items that she feels strongly about that needs still further discussion. So these meetings where we talk about public input, this is the opportunity at You missed a meeting where something on the agenda was discussed that you didn't have an opportunity to participate. Or if a decision was made by the group that, OK, I still have concerns. I want to voice them one more time. August 6th, August 25th is the opportunity. So don't feel like you're done. If you see something that's wrong, or if you see something we've missed, or you see something from the results of the public input, this will be your opportunity to speak to it. And we encourage it because the best document is the document from my perspective that you all feel like it's good, but it could be better. And let's try to make it that way.

Please.

Again, I spoke with the owner this morning. He had stated at a previous master plan meeting that he didn't have a plan related to the request for the warehouse or the whole project as a whole. And as we spoke, he made it clear that he has a vision. He doesn't have an actual plan, but he did respond to my question is, what is your vision? And so he did respond to that. And this is some highlights from the discussion as I understood them. He envisions a coffee shop with food items, classrooms, and retail space in the current structure. The current structure presently contains pottery, inside-outside decorative items, and an office. They currently do have classes, and they're held in the greenhouse. And the majority of their business is from landscape architecture, where they develop a basically a landscaping project or something that's more involved, but that's the main part of their business. And for the most part, it, the installation of course is down on the property. It's not on the nursery property. A lot of the items that they need to do these plans, they get elsewhere. They don't bring them necessarily from the, from the nursery. They do bring the plants, but like if somebody went to water feature or whatever, You know, they go somewhere else to get it. So it's not actually stored at the nursery. So I inquired if the warehouse could be placed behind the current structure. His vision is to place the warehouse in front of the current structure, extend the new structure in width and into the current parking area. And I asked if he could place the warehouse behind the existing building. He replied, no. I mentioned that the area is residential and placing a warehouse would be less intrusive to current residents if it was placed behind the current structure. His reply, there are houses behind the nursery. I inquired if the building next to the nursery could be used for storage and classrooms. He replied, no, offices are in that building. And I explained that the impact of his vision would then allow the 10 acres across 109 and Clayton Road to utilize similar structures and accessories next to a school and residential neighborhoods. And in my opinion, he hadn't either considered that possibility or wasn't concerned with that negative impact on those residents. He said, I suggested instead of a warehouse to utilize, this is not the technical term I know, a hothouse, as a storage facility in a showroom so that he could put out his additional products, the new ones that he wants. And another possibility is to have an open air structure with a decorative roofing. He seemed to be receptive to that idea. He didn't make a definitive comment, but the implication was that he was probably okay with that. He'd have to tell you that himself, but that's what I got from the conversation. and both of which the hothouse are the structure would allow his new products to be visible to customers, be complimentary with current structures and not offensive to residents who reside in the area. If the owner's vision of a warehouse becomes a reality, what does that say about the city of Wildwood? And that's if he puts the structure, the warehouse in front of the current nursery and then close to 109. So if the owner's vision of a warehouse becomes a reality, what does that say about the city of Wildwood? And what impression will non-residents passing through Wildwood be given if a warehouse is located in a residential area along a highway and a country or a county roadway? So based on that conversation, I move the word warehouse be stricken and insert the wording whatever the proper terminology is for a hothouse and are an open air structure in place of the warehouse.

Mr. Chair, if I may.

We could use a little bit of help.

Sure. Obviously, this is the Pasiglia site, which we discussed at the conclusion of the land use matters by a vote of 12 to 2, favorably. The group recommended that the non-urban residential area designation stay in place. that the non-urban resident district zoning be retained on the site, the actual zoning designation, and that the conditional use in that non-urban resident district be supported, the plant nursery, greenhouses, and sales room, but gave them a short list of accessory uses, which have to be complementary compatible and secondary to the conditional use that's the way our code defines it and customarily found so that was the protections you all wanted relative to that list of accessory uses certainly if the department picked the wrong word for warehouse we can work on that we'd be glad to look at that find a definition for such but i just want to emphasize the department identified the concern about the vacant 10 acres across the street. And anything that might happen here could happen there. We think we've narrowed it down to circumstances that it would be very, very hard to replicate. But with your all's permission, we'll take another look at this just to make sure that we've not done something that in three years or four years, you're seeing on the opposite corner. We want to make sure that what we've done here isn't replicatable elsewhere, or at least it's in the appropriate location.

Just a point of clarification. Anything that he wants to do as far as construction would have to go through planning and zoning for approval.

Planning and zoning commission, architectural review, city council. Yeah, and so I explained to Ms. McCutcheon, there's no way the Department of Planning, and I say this more to Travis because I may not be here, There's no way the Department of Plan is going to let a warehouse go in front of the bill in front of the site. It's like, no, you've got eight plus acres. Put it elsewhere.

So just to be clear.

If you guys taking another look at it, hopefully you can hear me. That won't change the vote in the previous discussion that we already had, number one. Okay. Second, I guess I'm still confused over where the hangup is, no disrespect to you, over just the word warehouse. I know maybe we all picture different things when you think of the word warehouse, but coming back to what you just mentioned, We know that there are architectural standards and building guidelines. Everything that Pasiglia has currently and has ever done on their property is always well done. I mean, the intent is to invite residents and customers into their business and make it a welcome space. Their staff does a really good job with that, and they do a really good job with their property. I don't think they would build anything that if someone's driving down 109 is going to be an eyesore or make them think, oh my God, why did Wildwood allow that? I think that's... In my opinion, an unreasonable thought. Um, I mean, if I drive down and I see. Landscaping business, you expect to see gravel dirt. Trees having a building, whether it's metal and wood, which I, I. I guess I have no idea what current architectural guidelines are. For those kind of buildings, but I'm picturing a very well done. party board siding, wood window, something that's well put together that almost looks like, you know, I don't know. You guys know where I'm going with that, but a good representation of not only what their business does, but it's still going to look good. I mean, to me, a building looks better on 109 than when at the peak of their season when you've got the piles of gravel. But when I drive by there five to ten times a day, y'all, I live off 109. It never, ever once have I drove by and thought, wow, that looks unkept. I love it when I see the piles big and then they're empty because I know that the business is thriving, that their employees are being paid and that they have job security and that the families who live around here and utilize the Stiglia services are being well served. Thank you.

I could just mention something. So I think the best example of architectural review relative to is in the portion, the Chesterfield Valley. has fixed supply services. His offices is a metal building our architectural review board asked him to place that front porch on there with the shed roof stumps weather vane of her window. 360 so to speak. Now step that up, Kirch Nursery, they built a home down there basically for their offices. I mean, that is hardy board siding, architectural shingles, front porches. I mean, I look at it and we get questions, why'd you let them build a house there? It's like, well, it's not. Somebody may live there, I don't know, but it's not intended to be a home for someone on a permanent basis. So I can assure you that through our city council over the years, We have really refined or sharpened that pencil when it comes to non-residential buildings and how they look. Do we hit the target 100% of the time? No, because there are cost considerations, and we work with the businesses to address those as best as possible. But like I say, nothing that the department would do looking at these couple of components would change your vote unless you change your vote.

No, I think Pisciclius does a wonderful job. I'm not saying that you drive by there and think, oh, my gosh, that's not what I'm saying. But when we discussed the hothouse or the open-air structures, that fits in better with what they currently have. And we were all struggling with what does a warehouse mean? I was looking for something to really define what a warehouse means. but we all had different ideas. And I think we asked the department to go back and look and try to come up with words for a warehouse. So my meeting with him today was two points. One, what is his vision? Because he does not have a written plan yet. He's not sure when he's going to start this remodeling. But It was an opportunity to get an idea of what his vision is because we did not get that when he attended the meeting. And the other one was to come up with a more concise, consistent description of what a warehouse would be because you get different connotations for a warehouse. So that's why I had that conversation with him and, you know, If you use the hothouse or open-air structures, they already have them there. So it's something that would fit right in. And it's also something where the customers can actually see the product. If you have something in a warehouse and it's closed up, then you can't see it. But I wanted to give you all the benefit. I spent a little over an hour with him today, and these were the issues that we talked about. So I thought it would be interesting in hearing the conversation. It gave me a better perspective than what he had given when he was here, personally.

Thank you.

Respectfully, I appreciate that you took the time to go over and speak with him and I appreciate your opinion. My personal opinion is we can't ask the man to give us a concrete plan for what he wants to do for his property. That's why this is a 10 year plan. He gave us an idea. We gave him an idea. We came up with the plan. We asked the Department of Planning to go back and redefine and narrow down what a warehouse is. And I'm confident with what we came up together as a group. And I'm perfectly fine with it. But I do respect the fact that you went over. And I'm grateful that you did that. And thank you. And I respect your opinion.

Joe?

So again, if... You have all the information that we've developed over the past 18 months, particularly in the terms of goals, objectives and policies, the narratives and the land use component. Between now and August 25th, you'll have 2 opportunities to basically voice. Any concerns any items that have been missed anything you'd like to see added. So, tonight, the department would respectfully request an authorization to proceed forward with the schedule as presented with the 1 change due to the error of the director of planning. We'll have a meeting on August 6th versus August 11.

Make a motion that recommendation.

I'll second it. All in favor? Aye. Motion passes.

So if you're wondering when the next meeting is, August 6th. Thank you. That's all the department has tonight.

If anybody has anything else they'd like to add, otherwise I will propose a motion to adjourn.

Second.

All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion passes.