Development and Zoning Review Committee - Regular Meeting

Be right back. Okay. I wanted to shut my bedroom door to keep the noise down. Mr. Chair, we're recording and we should be on YouTube as well, so we're set to go. Thank you.

Okay. Um, I'd like to call this meeting of the Development and Zoning Review Committee uh to order. Um, welcome to the meeting. Uh at tonight's meeting, this interested party will introduce and provide a presentation on a development proposal that would be located within the city of Wildwood. Tonight's meeting provides this interested party the opportunity to propose a concept and then hear feedback from this committee which is composed of key city decision makers. One meeting is normally offered for this purpose. However, in certain circumstances, a second discussion may follow. It is important to note this concept plan is in very preliminary and informal stages of the city's review process. Such is subject to changes if it proceeds to the formal submission process. The committee welcomes the public's attendance tonight via the Zoom platform or streaming on YouTube, but given the preliminary and informal nature of the presentation, public comment is not being sought at this time. If the de proposed development does proceed to the formal submission process, members of the public will have numerous opportunities to to address the city's planning and zoning commission andor city council regarding it. At that time, the committee would like to thank you for your attendance at tonight's meeting. Um, can I get a roll call of commission members, please?

Certainly, Mr. Chair. Council member Preston, Council Member Reblowski, Council Member Marshall, present. Mayor Garitano, present. Chair Bey, here. Mr. Chair, we have a quarum. All right. Thank you. Um, do you have any opening comments, Mr. Vunich?

Um, Mr. Chair, just to mention that I'll be promoting Mr. Nance and once I get Mr. Nance in from Lombardo Homes, I'll ask if he wants any of the others, any of the other attendees to also be promoted. But, um, as part of this, we did provide a packet of information. We being the Department of Planning. That packet included um the agenda, the bylaws for this committee, a large and smallcale aerial photograph of the property and its relationship to other properties and major streets in the vicinity. The petitioner provided a set of uh architectural renderings along with a conceptual site plan. And then finally, we did include town center information, the regulating plan, the ar the permitted uses relative to the land use categories identified by the regulating plan and then finally the guidelines and standards associated with town center saying that this property is in town center. With that, Mr. Chair, I'm going to promote Mr. Nance and then if we need to do any others, I'll do it as quickly as he tells me. So, thank you. Sounds good. Thank you. Uh, welcome, Mr. Nance. Um, would you like to bring anyone else in?

I don't know if, uh, Mike Faulner from Sterling Engineering is on or not. He is. You, we might, he might have some things to add if we need, uh, have some questions later on. Um, so if something comes up, Mr. Nance, I propo it proped Mr. Faulner and Okay, Mr. Chair, I think we're ready to go. All right. All right. Um, sounds good. Would you like to tell us what you have here?

Yes. Good evening, Mr. Chair, mayor, and committee members. Um, we have this 10 and a half acre site located within Wildwood in the town center area u next to Pond Schoolhouse. 74 twostory town homes um that will be for sale, not for rent. Um we have added some landscaping. We're adhering to the water quality that you can see up to the to the south right at the entrance along Manchester Road. Um we have additional parking on both sides of the town homes. In addition, these are these have two car garages, so there is parking within the garage and parking on the driveway as well. Um, in addition to the additional parking that we have to the east and the west of the site. Um, and we also are adhering to the public space requirements um, and the clearing uh, requirements as well. In addition, when I met with uh, Mr. Vunich um he had commented on the need for Pond Schoolhouse um needing some more parking and he would like to see that. So um you'll see on our plan we do have some additional proposed parking on our property that would be um for the pond schoolhouse as well. Uh as far as the product that we are offering, it's a newer product. We're um just starting to build it in Cottville Trails um a community in Cottville. Um like I said, it's a two-story. Um this is our farmhouse um elevation, front elevation, and then there's couple different uh color renderings that have been put together for right now as preliminary. Um so you could have an idea of what it kind of looks like. And then that's the rear with the twocar

rear entry garage as well. Uh right now we're looking at as far as transa these are anywhere from 1500 square foot to 1,700 foot. There's three different plans. The largest plan has a uh a master bedroom down. Um and then the other two plans are the master bedroom upstairs with extra bedroom uh and loft on those. As far as what price range we think we're going to be at, we think we're going to start in the mid to high um fours, low fives, and transact somewhere in the mid to high fives. Uh for this product, uh we think it suits well with being close to the town center, um being able to get there, and the demographic of the buyer that would be uh purchasing the town home for this area. And I'll be happy to answer any questions that you might have at this time.

All right. Thank you, Mr. Nance. Uh, Mr. Marshall, Councilman Marshall, C. Mayor Gitano, do you have any thoughts? I've got a I've got a couple of questions. Or there's a Ed, do you want to go first or No, you go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. I was just looking at this over here and trying to get an understanding. You mentioned parking. Um, and I'm looking at the uh drawing here, like where where's that parking that you're saying for the uh

It's right It's right um to the southeast uh right next to Pond Schoolhouse. So, if you go down to Manchester Road kind of we added it in there to connect into the existing parking that's at Pond School right now. Okay. So, there could be another entrance out for that parking if needed. One one of the things that I always look at when I see these drawings is that um the parking uh when you have uh like a development that's laid out like this where where do the guests park then?

So there's park there's additional parking on the east and west side of of the town homes for for the guests to park at as long as along with on the driveways. Um, there's room on the driveways as well. You mean like the driveway actually like to the home? Yes. On the driveway. The the alleyways through would be no parking.

Yeah. I I would see that there's no parking there. What what I'm concerned about is are there enough guest spaces? If somebody, for example, you have a a holiday where families are getting together for um let's say Thanksgiving and you can't allow parking uh obviously on the roads um there, right? Because I'm imagining your width is probably not wide enough to allow that to uh Metro West Metro West would have an issue. I mean, is there is there realistically enough parking for guests in this? So, our right now on the site on the east and west there's about 40 parking spaces approximately when I do the quick um just a quick glance at it. Um and then

I counted 19 on one side. So, yeah. U and then the hope was for the additional parking to be shared that we were adding for Pond School with um with the town homes as well. I think that would be something I would be curious about.

Um I'm probably going to have more questions as you talk. I mean the the the initial feedback I can just give you is it is uh it's very packed like you've got like uh these town homes quite stacked uh right there in rows. And uh I I do notice you've got some public space set up in the middle. So I'll give you that. But uh any any reason why you didn't kind of put some space between the rows of town homes or like like for example when I'm looking at these town homes like 37 to 28. Um not breaking them up a little bit like some space between 33 and 32 for example. Uh or um you know because it looks like you have one 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 nine. Yeah. 10 town homes all together in one structure. And we don't have uh I don't think we have anything like that at all in Wildwood. Camberry has town homes, but there I don't believe there's that many like that tied together. Uh

yeah, I think Cambury maxes out at like four or five in a row. Yeah. So I just kind of feel like it's a bit overwhelming. I mean that or uh I would also be interested in the Department of Planning's perspective just from a density perspective. It just back to my initial comment. It just seems uh kind of a like a lot there. Yeah. for such a small parcel of land. Mr. Chair, with your permission. Yeah. Go ahead, Mr. Vunich.

Mr. Mayor, the property is approximately 10 and a half acres in size. We calculate the density based upon that 10 12 acres as the gross acreage minus any of the property to be dedicated for public or private rideway. We don't include alleys. I believe it's even with that deduction for the public street which is street A as shown on the concept plan. There's still around 10 acres available. So it's 74 units. It's about 7.4 or 7 and 12 acre 7 and a half units per acre. That's on the upper end of what we've of what the city has considered appropriate in town center, but it's certainly within the range that's been established by the town center.

All right. Well, thanks for uh providing that background on that. Um yeah. Um All right. I'll I'll pause to uh or you know hand it over back to see if anybody else has any other comments or questions.

Um so I'll just interject. I I pulled up Google Earth and yeah Camberry max m has a couple buildings with five units in them and that's where they max out at. So yeah, I think if if you could definitely if you could space them out to like do two two blocks of buildings on each side or in each group, that would probably help if and maybe reduce the um total number a little bit. I I I think we could probably use some more buildings like this as I don't know, someone who um only kind of only has a house because that's what people do and there's not a lot I've got outdoor toys. I need garage space. Um,

so well and and uh I'll just chime back in and maybe I think what's driving my comment uh and why I brought that up is I think you had mentioned that this was similar to a project you were doing in Codleville. Is that right?

That is correct. And uh we have another similar product um in St. Peters. Um, which we do have, you know, in certain areas where you couldn't get larger buildings, we do had some four units in those subdivisions. Um, but usually it's trying to get like 8 n 10 units um to make the projects work. Um, and that's why, you know, when you looked at our renderings, we're showing quite a few units on those. um to try to break it up with some of the the elevational changes on the front and the back and just instead of just trying to have one gable um going through there so it doesn't look

well I think maybe then what what drives my comment then is is that uh Wildwood is not Codleville. It's not uh St. Peters. Um, and I don't think that, uh, Wildwood wants to, um, you know, deal with or kind of have, uh, it wants to have its own unique view. I mean, I think there's some issues over there that they're dealing with uh, due to overdevelopment. And the reason that Wildwood got incorporated uh, from St. Louis County was to not have that kind of overdevelopment. So it just it you know when you look at it I think it does look like that's a great fit for those areas and you already admitted that you mentioned building in those areas this type of thing but I would say my feedback is maybe what could you do to make it look more like a wildwood like look at Camberry for example or some other uh you know developments that have happened around wildwood to just kind of make it feel more unique to Wildwood versus trying to make Wildwood look like Codleville.

Yeah. I mean, we could look at I don't maybe Mike Faulner knows or or Joe knows that the setbacks between buildings when we break them up. Well, Mr. Nance, I think the fire district will probably rule on that. And then typically between two buildings, we'll need at least 10 ft. So 5 foot sideyards. Okay. Yeah, we can look at that. Definitely, Mr. Mayor. Thank you.

Um, Mr. Marshall. Yeah. Councilman Marshall,

just just a couple questions. the green space which would be to the north, those new homes that are on the back side of that. What What will the I know that the apartment or the units will be looking out. They're going to be looking out onto what those are halfacre lots in the the other subdivision. Um I I don't I I don't know what's going to be in between there. The other question would be is the traffic flow. I know that it's small on my screen here, but on the traffic flow there, the street doesn't go all the way to the on the front of the other buildings, does it? It just goes to the alley. Correct.

And then all of the traffic is going to go in the alleys and come out of the alleys. So in that particular case then you've got 35 units coming out the alley back into the circle back out just for that top unit. Is that right? Yeah. This will probably the way we will have it set up will be one way through here through the alleyway and back out.

Yeah. that that just seemed I just again it's I know it's just a sketch here but it's that's hard to for me to determine. So Mr. Voonage the the development plans we've worked with in the past where we tried to have the actual plot size mirror up to the plot size adjacent to that. That wouldn't apply here because this is all town center.

Well this particular parcel Mr. Marshall is designated two different districts under the regulating plan, the land use plan of town center. The northern, let's say half of it is neighborhood general, which is a mixeduse district that can have town homes that are that are almost identical to what's being proposed. The southern half is more neighborhood edge. Um but in the past the planning and zoning commission and city council can adjust the boundary line between two districts neighborhood general neighborhood edge based upon the design that's been submitted. So in this particular instance, if this design is something that ultimately the city supports, the pro the property will become more neighborhood general versus neighborhood edge. If the density is too great, we do have the two districts and the neighborhood edge requires less units, not more. Got it. That those were my primary questions and then just how the the the green space is laid out there. the the primary entrance then would be going in to the circle or would they be going in those two side options or does it really matter? I guess they can't they've either they've got to go down the alley so they go to the circle go all the way through to the alleys and likewise on the the one closest to Old Manchester they'll have cuts into the alleys there. Is that correct? Or I guess the outside the outside traffic flow is what I'm trying to figure out other than in the circle.

Right. And again, is that a question to Rick or I or do you is that more to Mr. Nance? I guess to Mr. Nance because he's familiar with it. I'm just curious as to how the traffic flow. The primary way I guess is to go right up in the center around the circle to uh or towards the circle for the southern or for the lower ones through the circle to the northern ones and then down the alleys as you mentioned one way on the east. Will they be going west one way or west to the east?

I haven't put that much thought into it. I apologize. Um as far as the traffic flow for it um right now I mean it could go you could go both ways. um on that that alleyway street. It's just not to the to the public rightway standards. Um why it's private, but some of our alleys could be one way instead if and then you'd have to look at where your traffic flow would be and we'd have to analyze that and see what would work best. Got it. Okay. No, thank you. Mhm.

And um I guess question for me is the fronts of these would pretty much all pretty all face green space it looks like. Correct. Correct. And may I guess is there maybe just a sidewalk? There's a sidewalk that runs through through um the middle of the project and then there be a and then the ones that face the other way there's a sidewalk that goes up to the front doors. Mhm.

Mr. Chair, I I was trying to pro promote Miss Rablowski, the council person. Okay. So I but I I think she's dropped off, but I'm not 100% sure. Mr. Dance, the trash would be each individual unit coming out of their garage, so they will be picked up like any other single unit. Correct. Yes. And then what about mail? The Do you have an area where the US mail, they don't like town homes like that anymore? Yeah, there's uh on both sides on the east and west in the parking areas, there's a male kiosk. Got it. Mr. Marshall, I should have asked somebody. Can you all see the screen with the

Yeah, it's just real small. Okay. Yeah. Sorry. And it's getting better. Council member Raboski is on, so um thanks. Sorry, I lost track of time and didn't realize I missed the start of the meeting, so I apologize. Appreciate you coming in. Um, so what we have is basically about 75 74 town homes on this 10 or 11 acre parcel. And um, do you have any just the diagram's on the screen right now, so if you have any comments?

I think my only question is exactly where is it on? This is on Old Manchester, right? Correct. next to Old Pond School. Oh, okay. Got it. Mr. Ablowski, does this help? Yes. And right here is Old Pond School. Okay. Mr. Chair,

questions. I think you were there. Um, I think my questions are all answered fairly well. Does anyone else have anything they want to bring up? Uh, Mr. Lee.

Thank you, Chair. Um, I just wanted to point out one thing too is that with those alleys and I agree with the mayor's sentiment that and and your settlement chair that having this type of inventory I think is important adding something like this. At the same time I think having the nine and 10 rows all connected is proves to be a little challenging. And then with the alleyways itself, uh just a important reminder that you know once those alleys are completed, those are going to almost be a primary drive for those back residents, meaning they're going to be used every day. And at some point, the city's going to have to take those on. Even if they're they're established private, there's going to be a push to for the city to take them over when there's really no primary use for folks that would not be living there. So, just wanted to point that out as a consideration as well. if the developer could look into ways to possibly enhance the parking, but really kind of look at the traffic patterns going in there uh and how those folks are going to get there. Because the other thing is folks that might be visiting uh might be visiting to their family there. If they haven't been to that development, they're not going to be aware of the parking on the side there because it's doesn't seem like it's visible from the road. Uh just some some general comments wanted to bring up for some consideration. Thank you. Thank you.

And then I think my only comment is Vicki again is that you know you passed the ordinance in 2019 saying all alies would be made public in present and future construction. So even though you're saying private, you passed an ordinance through the city saying they would be public, right? Because we've taken on the alleys in Cambury and Main Street crossing. Correct. At this point, that is correct. I I think and Mr. Linsky to clarify uh when I was making that reference and Mr. Bunes, correct me if I'm wrong, but the idea and what was being proposed by the developer is that those alleys would be private at the front. Correct.

Okay. But how could they be private if we passed an ordinance saying all present and future alleys would be made public? That that's the contradiction I was bringing up. pretty much saying that the city would be forced to take them over and then bear the cost of maintenance of them. Absolutely. Yep. So, just another just a financial consideration of the development as well. Um because those will be for the especially for the back half and any visitors, those will be the primary access points and they're going to be driving on them each day.

Mr. Verich. Yes. And Mr. Rablowski, Mr. Brown and I recognizing that ultimately these private alleys become public, we oftent times spend a lot more um of our resources ensuring that they're built to a high standard so that the taxpayers aren't maintaining them prematurely. And we also look at the the best design. And um for the most part I think we got that in the villages of Brightleaf and Men Street crossing um the early projects with alleys I wouldn't necessarily say that the standard was the same. We used the standard that was proposed by the consultant Andre Stwani but for the most part I think we can do better. So um we'll work with Mr. Nance, if they proceed forward after tonight's meeting and make sure we get something that if it becomes a public component of the overall street network, I'm sure Mr. Brown will make sure that he's not out there in a year or two maintaining them because of problems.

Thank you. You're welcome, ma'am. All right. Does anyone else have any other comments? Seeing none, I guess uh request a motion to adjurnn. So moved. All right. Motion by Councilman Marshall. Second. I'll second. Thank you. All right. Second by Council Member Robski. Um all those in favor say I. I.

Any opposed? Any abstain? All right, we are ajourned. Uh, Mr. Nance, Mr. Faulner, thank you for your time. Appreciate it. Appreciate it very much. All right. Thank you. You're welcome. See you. Thank you.