Development and Zoning Review Committee - Regular Meeting

Travis, did we lose the mayor? Uh, he's in as an attendee. I've asked to promote him. Oh, okay. Couple of times, but All right. Oh, I see him now. Thank you. Ah, he's here. He is. Okay. Oh, actually. Okay, I'm here. Okay, got it. We're set to go, sir.

All right. I'll go ahead and call this meeting to order. Um, let me pull my script back up. Uh, like to welcome everyone to this meeting of the city's development and zoning review committee. At tonight's meeting, this interested party will introduce and provide a presentation on a development proposal that would be located within the city of Wildwood. Tonight's meeting provides this interested party the opportunity to propose a concept and then hear feedback from this committee which is composed of key city decision makers. One meeting is normally offered for this purpose. However, in certain instances, a second meeting may follow. It is important to note this concept plan is in very preliminary and informal stages of the city's review process, such as subject to changes if it proceeds to the formal submission process. The committee welcomes the public's attendance tonight via the Zoom webinar platform or streaming on YouTube, but given the preliminary and informal nature of the presentation, public comment is not being sought at this time. If the pro proposed development does proceed to the formal submission process, members of the public will have numerous opportunities to address the city's planning and zoning commission andor city council regarding it. At that time, the committee would like to thank you for your attendance at tonight's meeting. Um, can I get a roll call of attendees, please?

Yes, sir. Uh, Council Member Alers, uh, just dropped off. See if you can get him back on. Uh, Council Member Galani here, Council Member Marshall present. Chair Batty here, and Mayor Garano here. All right. And it looks like Councilman Alers is back on.

He's still muted though, I think. Yeah. How about now? There you go. Okay. I've been trying everything. Sorry. Um, does the Department of Planning have any opening comments?

Yes, Mr. Chair, and thank you again, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. First and foremost, thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule tonight to um participate in this development and zoning review committee meeting. In preparation of tonight's meeting, the department along with the applicant have provided you a number of items. First and foremost, the department has provided you the agenda for tonight's meeting which provides the process that will follow relative to this presentation. Along with the agenda, we provide the bylaws associated with the development and zoning review committee if there are any questions regarding process authorities, duties, responsibilities, etc. In our packet, we provided to you information relative to this particular site. That information included an aerial f photograph of the general area, a more smaller scale version of that aerial photograph of the area, the site so to speak. And then we also included a number of items from our town center plan which includes the regulating plan, the permitted uses and then a list of specifications relative to setbacks built to lines etc. All of that is typically provided for projects that are being proposed in the town center um area of the city. Additionally, the petitioner has provided a concept plan relative to this 44 lot development. Today, additional information was provided that Mr. Dubberry forwarded to all of you. That additional information included a colorized version of the concept plan along with architectural elevations of certain units that are being proposed collectively. That is the information that is being considered

tonight for cons for comment from the members of the committee. If there are any information that or questions you have regarding the information that's been provided by the department, we'd be glad to answer them at this time. And thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. Vunich. Um, would the petitioner like to They're online now, right? Yeah. Would they like to give a presentation about the project?

We We would Is Mike Doster on the line? Yes. I trying to get him in. And there there he is. And Travis, I just tried to promote him. Hopefully that works. Yes, he he accepted that one. Yeah, Mr. Daster, um, are you planning on giving the pre presentation? I think he needs to unmute. Agreed. that now.

Now we can hear you or we could sent them a prompts to unmute. All right. Can you hear me now? Yep. Go ahead.

Okay. Thank you. I appreciate your patience. uh mayor, council members, members of the committee. I appreciate the opportunity uh to present. There will be three members of the development team who will speak. I will speak very briefly. Followed by Dave Vol who will talk about the plan in some detail. And then following Dave Vols is William Levenson who will talk about the preliminary uh renderings that were supplied to you today. uh giving you some idea of the type of product and the quality of the product that the developer intends to place on this site if it's approved. The prior plan for this site which is owned by the developer uh was denied. I think you all know that this current plan attempts to address key issues with respect to that prior plan. First of all, the density was an issue and this plan reflects a reduction from the prior plan of uh 11 units. Prior plan was 55 units. The current plan is 44 units. In addition, there was an issue regarding the buffer to the south. That buffer hasn't has been increased from 20 ft to 70 ft. And of course, we're retaining the main street uh dedication as shown on this plan. It's approximately 37 feet wide. And we're doing that obviously to uh help facilitate uh the future construction uh of the extension of Main Street. And unless you have any questions for me, uh, I'd like to turn it over to Dave

Vols who will talk about this plan.

Uh, thanks Mike. Um, and I think everyone is pretty familiar with the with the site and with the previous plans, but let me just tell you about the site to begin with. As you know, it's actually made up of multiple parcels uh, with some existing structures that are on it. Um, and the site is 6.86 86 acres and it's at the corner of Old Etherton Road and what's Crest View Drive which is right here which I'm sure you're all familiar with that but the site pretty much drains from west towards the east. So all the drainage comes down to this corner right now and there's really a high point right here. And if you remember from all the previous plans and including this plan we actually have two detention basins because there's really two waterersheds. So the water comes down from this half goes into this basin through through a u rain garden up here and this half will come down and go to this side. So all the drainage falls from from west towards the east. Um and Mike made this comparison already but I just wanted to go through some of the comparisons between the the sites. So as you can see there's 44 units. These are the same type of units that we had on the others plan. These on this site are slabs and some of them are walkouts. Um, but we went from 55 units on the previous plan to what you see here which is 4 uh4 units. And these units are on they're basically 26t wide and they're all on fe simple lots. So just like before these are fe simple lots which are are um will be platted that way. So there'll be a plat that that creates them that way. I know there was always concern about drainage uh leaving the site particularly towards the south. Our previous plan actually we were picking up that drainage and taking it to the the detention basin and we're going to do that again on this plan. So what you see here is about a half acre of common area that's just that's a buffer between us and the property to

the south. And the distance between these units and the south property line is actually slightly more than 80 ft. And then between our property line and the existing structure, which I think is right in here, that's more than 20 feet. So it's it's about a 100 feet between the back of our structure and the structure that's on the piece to the to the south. And all of this drainage from these units is going to come down and again be piped, which we're required to do, into our uh into our uh water quality basin and then into the the detention basin. So these are two detention basins and again this system it's preliminary plan. These systems aren't designed yet but that's that's what MSD would require and that's what the city would require and what we would do. Um the dedication so there's two dedications. One on old Etherton here and then the other one along uh Crest View or or Main Street and they are precisely what we had on the previous plan. So there's no changes. The dedication we're doing along here is 37 ft, which provides enough dedication to do the interim plan here, which we've always kind of proposed, which would be a 24ft piece of pavement that that could go all the way down to where the city hall through the park. Um, so, uh, that that's basically the short of the of the plan. The ride ofway is is 40 feet. the the pavement is going to be a standard 26.1 feet wide with sidewalks on both sides. Um um and I'm going to let William talk about the the structures that that are going to be built in the renderings that we sent. But did you have any You know what? I'll let William talk and then I'll we can answer questions.

Thank you. Go ahead, William. Good evening everyone. Thank you for the opportunity to uh show you our revised and updated plans. Okay.

Uh if you'll look, we're looking at units 1 through 16 on the plan. So, if you were standing on what could be a future Main Street and looking south, this is what you would see. We uh we took into account all of the Town Center design manual uh preferences, elevated porches, rear entry garages, etc. Um we have we have stone and brick elevations with cementitious sighting as well as some shake uh materials up in the gables. Um we do recognize that this is you know the city has architectural review process and we know we'll be going through that uh after zoning. So you know we're open to their comments and incorporating those. We just wanted to let you know that the level and quality of materials that we have planned for these units.

This would be the the the view from uh the internal street, correct?

Internal street again. And the current plan has 44 units total. 12 of those are ranch units. Uh the rest are twotory units that will be the ranch units will be two-bedroom, two bath. The twotory units will be three either three or four bedrooms. Um and two and a half or three and a half bath. And these would be the ranch 33 through 44. And the two stories would be these right here. Correct. And I believe these are on slab and these are these have basements.

Correct. And we intend to finish the basements in half of those units. How many total basements can you 30? It would be 32. 32. Thank you.

Um is that all for your presentation? That is all I have. Does anybody else from the development team have anything to add?

I I would just say that uh along Etherton Road, the the what we're proposing along Etherton Road is the same as what we had on the other plan with the with the parallel parking spaces right here. So the the design and the plan for both Main Street and Etherton match what we had always proposed, which allows a connection, you know, through to the to the park with the with the appropriate amount of rideway that you would need. I had a question regarding is there a um a fence line along the south side of the property between the property line and the adjacent um homeowners there. I know last time there was a sticking point related to, you know, potential light disruption and stuff from the cars in the development. Um, to have that fence over there. Um, is do you guys have something like that in there?

We're not showing that at this point. Fortunately, there's there's no drives that come down here anymore. So, he's got to the south there's more than 100 foot of separation. We also will have to do a landscape plan at some point. But the need for that fence which was basically right at the end of that stub street if you remember. Yep. Um it was they were right here. Sure. That was so when a car came down it would block the headlights, right? Um, so there's really no need for that at this point unless the I'm just I'm just Yeah, I'm looking I'm guess I'm looking more over here at the Circle Drive on this end here

because there'll be cars, you know, coming down and stuff like that. Um, I'm just honestly I'm just trying to come up with, you know, um, being the devil's advocate of things that I can just hear that will be brought up by other people. Um, sure. I supported the last plan, so obviously this one's even better when it comes to density and some of the concerns that other people had. So hopefully um but you know, I think the elevations look good and the layout looks really good to me. I'm just trying to come up with uh things that may may come up in a future discussion. Right. Thank you.

There'll be a there'll be a landscape plan and we can plant landscaping here and you could put a little privacy fence here. I mean, it would be a short one, but or just wrap this with some type of a landscape buffer. There's plenty of room because this is over a half an acre over here. So, you have another quarter of an acre of ground here, plus all of this. So, could almost build up the land along the edge there and put some trees or something. You You probably could. I do need to get this drainage down and in into this basin, but yeah, you probably could do some type of a burm here. Okay. And you you could probably do a burm in here as well. And then what is the Oh, sorry.

I'm sorry. I was just just going to say we do prefer to screen with BMS and landscaping, but we're not opposed to a fence. BMS and landscaping just tend to age better over time and look better over time, but uh we're open to that. And then as far as the detention basins over here on the east side, um what is going to be like the surface? What do you anticipate um would be the ground level exposed you know aesthetic view of that? So these are not designed at all. Um okay

but previously you know everybody always likes these to be to be wet basins but that's always a little bit of a problem when you're when you're trying to provide water quality as well. So I'm going to have to talk to the city about but there's plenty of room to do it now. There's plenty of room to do what we want. This is a a little wall right here which we may or may not need. The re that came off the old plan. So these these basins are really off the old plan, but it's so much smaller that I think that we can make that work. But yeah, whatever.

I think I think the aesthetics on that part will be something that people will um want to make sure is is you know up to par mainly because it's going to be a budding next to the village green. Now, what you end out with here by having two basins, you know, there's a there's a actually an opening here. This side is not walled. So, they won't and they won't be able to see this wall. If there is a wall here, you won't be able to see it because it'll be, you know, behind you. So, I think there's a pretty good separation there as well. Um and director Vunich, do we have on the Village Green side on the city property that would be abudding this this west, you know, the west side of village green that would be abudding the east side of this um project? Is there a a tree line that's going to be in there between Isn't that right where the uh unlimited play playground's going to be?

Mr. Galani, the unlimited play facility will be just to the west, so to speak, of the western most edge of the oval. So, this area over here next to the development originally showed the observation tower, but that Oh, that's right. That's been removed. So, for the most part, we probably have a trail network through there, but other than that, we're not anticipating a lot of disturbance or tree removal there. So, there'll be some My point is that there'll be a pretty good buffer there with the trees that already exist that we won't remove.

Yeah. And then potentially some trails in in between. So, it's not like um there there should be an issue there. From the department's perspective, that's probably one of the areas where we'll have the lightest touch, so to speak. Okay. It's it's 200 feet probably from the back of these units to that sidewalk right there. Yeah. So, that's a No, I think it's I think it's good because you'll have the oval of Village Green because I don't I'm just once again, I'm just bringing up points that Sure.

you know, people that are against it will try to bring up. Um, but you have the oval, then you have the unlimited play playground facility, then you'll have the tree network there with potential trails as so you won't be able to see from Village Green. You won't even really see the development more or less. I don't I don't know what the existing trees are here, but it's it's pretty far away from where anybody would walk. And um you know like I said we we have to do a landscape plan which will which and previously actually we had a drive back here if you remember at one time.

So that's now gone. Now these are different types of units that are more shallow. It gives us more room for the detention basin. This was an entirely walled basin. So so we've made many many many steps to make this a better and better plan. Would it be possible to get a sidewalk connection from the south end of the circle over to the village green?

Uh, you mean from here through here? Well, I I was thinking the southern end of the circle. Okay. Yeah. Um, that's just kind of my thought just for connectivity because I'm thinking you live in like lot 25 or 26 and if you want to go to the village green, you got to walk almost all the way over to Etherton and then come back. Sure. I'm I'm just trying to promote walkability here. It is totally grade-wise possible to do that.

Okay. So, I mean, gradewise, if you wanted to connect a sidewalk or or you could run a sidewalk up here even. I mean, if you wanted to get a sidewalk through to because it seems like I'm not sure you want people coming in the backside of your park. I don't know whether the park is going to close at night or what what the what the access is, but generally, you know, I could see bringing a walk up and having people come in the front of the park. Yes,

grade grade wise, it's possible. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I one of personally I I kind of I live in the town center. I liked the idea of that they were promoting like blocks rather than subdivisions. And this is getting kind of away from the whole blocks,

but given the land, there's you only have a few properties here rather than a wide open area to where you can really zone several blocks of development. Um, and then there's like previously, um, I know the neighbors are speaking out against a lot of connectivity, which I think is I don't agree with what they're saying, but I'm only one person. Um, so that that's what that's why I'm looking for the sidewalks at the very least. Sure.

Um, and then what along those lines, why is that street from Maine into the subdivision so close to Etherton? um like why did you put it there rather than say between lots 10 and 11?

Well uh a couple reasons. One in meeting with the staff, the planning staff, this is where we all decided it could go. It could go anywhere along here. Um the the development I think is is going to build this much of the road. Previously, our entrance was was way down here, and I think that this community was going to build all of this, but because there's now only we lost 11 units out of it, I think that the funding for building the road all the way down to here or here is is uh gone. So, this is what, you know, this community kind of kind of can support. So, that right there, I believe, is is about 200 and some feet of of Main Street. and Main Street. You know what we're proposing or what we're showing is I think a 24 foot driving. So you'd have a lane going either way with a sidewalk right here and that would get you to right here and then hopefully the city will build the rest of it down to the park. So but

Okay. I I wasn't aware of that part of it. So thank you. Sure. Hey, this is Cliff. Can I go with a couple? Sure. Go ahead, Cliff. Um, okay. So, you you said 32 basement. I was just clarifying, right? That's one through one through 32 on the the map, correct? Right.

Okay. Uh, so we have 11 less units. Has that opened up parking anywhere along here? I was wondering if there was going to be like any doesn't appear there's like any clusters where you know might have three or four spaces here and there. It's it's all is there? No. Well, uh pre the previous plan we actually had some parking along this road. I mean um what you have is you have two in each garage and two in each driveway.

We could put some parking right here if if you wanted to. I could put probably two or three spaces here. And actually this island, which I love. Uh you you could put some spaces there. It would be uh you know, like that like diagonal or something. Yeah. Yeah. It'd be a diagonal place where you because I see that as being a actually I don't know if that'd be a oneway I think it's a one-way thing. So you'd pull in and then back out like that. Okay. But you could put probably, you know, eight spaces here if you wanted to.

Well, I think that might be helpful if if if if other people agree to that, but so you could maybe gain like uh 10 parking spaces here. Okay. Okay. Um uh let me just write Okay. And um any plans for a leasing manager on site? I think Mike, did you want to address that?

Sure, I can. Uh there is a tenative plan uh as I understand it. Uh it it's not formalized, but uh it's my understanding that the same management company would be used uh that would be used for the pending downtown uh town center development. Okay. Ed Con's development.

I Okay. Okay. I think that would be positive. Um I think I have just two more. Uh would the HOAs be set up the same as they were originally going into it with the uh first goaround here? Would would that be the same or is there any changes planning on the HOA? Well, we're not that far along uh in terms of the legal documentation. Uh that's something I'd have to discuss with uh with the developer once we get further into the process.

Okay. And if I'm hearing this right, because of this reduction in size, um, the developer can't support the road or the parkway all the way through like was going to happen at one point. Correct. That's correct.

So, the city would have to be responsible from um that. Okay. Yeah. the so so the city is going to have to bear the the cost of the the parkway aspect of it a lot I guess the center island and the other side I guess is that is that my am I reading this right or hearing this right well I think that um so so what we're showing here is a 24 foot piece of pavement that comes down to to here we would be building this portion of it Now, um, ultimately and and what that does is it allows the road to be built from Etherton all the way through without including the north side. I think that the the city or uh the public works has a plan to have a different section through here, but it would be I think you'd have to acquire property from the north side. So the ultimate this this is you can call it an interim road that would that would get you the connection made in at some point when the north side properties are acquired. I I think that uh the public works people might have a different design for that.

Can Mr. Voonage comment on that for me please? Well I also see uh Mr. Brown with his hand raised. I apologize. Okay. Sorry. Um go ahead. I got my hand I got my hand up too. Yes, that's fine. Oh, mayor.

All right. I got a couple of questions or comments and probably directed at different people. So, uh Dave, with your comment about the path, um I would say, you know, we probably want to encourage people to use a formal entrance into the park. So, if there is a path, it probably should lead to the street uh versus uh kind of a path behind that could be a bit obscure and hidden back that way. So, and I don't know what the plans are for the park and how it would connect to it. So, I don't want to lead people all of a sudden to an area where um it's secluded. So, I I would think if we want to provide uh access, a path to the future main street area would make sense because that way it leads people to where they could get to businesses and they could access the park through the front um or street entrance. So, that's my comment on that.

And then, uh Cliff, you brought up a good point. I always look at the drawings when we see proposals and look at how parking is going to be handled because that typically seems to always come up. And so, um, I do see that there are two spaces in front of the garages, which what we sometimes end up finding out is that, um, people don't use their garages. Um, they fill them up with storage items, not all of them, but some, and so they use the pavement in front of the garage uh, as their parking space. So, my number one thing I'm looking at here is what happens if someone is having a graduation party on a Sunday, Saturday afternoon, where are their guests going to park? And I'm looking at the street here and so I think it is 26 feet wide. So, Director Voonage, uh, 26 feet. What does the fire district tell us? Is that allowed for uh parking uh on that street either side or one side or no parking at all?

Mr. Mayor, Mr. Volos described the street width as 26.1 ft in width that allows parking on one side under the fire code. So, in this instance though, with the garages and driveways in such close proximity, I don't know if you'll be able to park any vehicles other than that one location Mr. Vos described, which is down by lot 32 and then in that elongated um area. So, a typical parallel space generally is about eight feet in width and 20 feet in length. So, it's just going to be I'm afraid if they if one side of the street is used for parking, it's going to negate safe access into and out of the driveways.

Yeah, I I think that's where I'm seeing an issue. I'm not a fan of having parking just on one side or or no parking at all because we have these issues elsewhere. And so, um, you know, I think my feedback for you guys is you need to come up with some ways of accommodating visitors. Otherwise, you're going to have to prohibit people from having visitors because where are they going to park? I don't know. So, um, to figure that out and see what you can come up with, unless you think you have an answer now. Do you want to comment on that now or do you want to

I can comment on that. Um, the the spaces right here, which I think you could probably get three. They wouldn't be on the street. I would I would actually do it like we did over here where these would be you'd pull off and then come back on. So, I think you could get three here. If if you can give me some feedback. Do you think that this there's room to put to put uh a row of parking in here? Um would that be something that would be that you would want trade trade off the green for the parking? In fact, you could probably get parking on you could probably get a row on both sides. You could probably get a row here and and parking here. You could make parking. Um,

how many spots do you think that you would have on each row? Well, let me see here. So, those those would be nine feet. So, you might be able to get, you know, 10 you might be able to get 20 spaces. Um, you know, 10 on this side, 10 on that side. And you're getting rid you're trading in then that common ground area that's in the middle.

Yeah. And maybe maybe that's too many. Maybe you don't need that many. Maybe you just do it on one side. Um and that would be the visitor parking for you. You you'd have to let everybody know that's the visitor parking for the for the community. There's also parking here along road that I think there are one, two, three, four, five, six spaces here which probably would be available. Well, I don't know whether these spaces on the other side are used by these homeowners, but you would have these spaces available right away. You could pro I wouldn't want to put one here because I don't think there's enough room to to come in and put one there. That would be just one off streetet parking that would be in the way. So, I would say you could put three here and plenty over here.

Well, let me ask this question. Director Voonage, don't we require certain amount of space uh for a proposal? And if that were to be uh you know pursued trading in that common ground in the middle um does that affect the space requirements that I believe uh we require? You follow my thinking there?

Yes, Mr. Mayor. Mr. Mayor, the the zoning ordinance in terms of parking for dwelling units of this nature, they have to have two basically enclosed spaces which are the garages. And as you noted, often times those become storage units. And then from the perspective of the department, we depend on the driveway, the apron so to speak, for the additional parking. Mr. Vol mentioned that that elongated culde-sac could be one way. So we could narrow the street a little. It could go down to I think Mr. Brown knows better than I think 15 feet. We could increase the common ground area so we could add parking and still maintain a reasonable amount of green space.

Yeah, that's that's what I'm thinking. And I mean, I think have to process that just to kind of see how what that would look like. But I'll I'll leave the feedback here that yeah, I think parking needs to be figured out because I just want to make sure that as we're proposing, and I've said this in previous proposals and other parts of the city, we can't continue to create unrealistic situations when it comes to parking. Uh we have that situation today. Um you know, you've got it. uh in in couple different areas and you know after that then we're stop dealing with an issue that we can't move the street we can't make it wider we can't do that and uh and you know I I think that needs to be just looked at there is figure out how you going to accommodate when people have some guests over um unless you specifically put in the requirements you're not allowed to have guests which I don't think is realistic So that's Yes.

Mr. Mayor, just a couple of thoughts. The most problematic development I think we have relative to parking is Cambury, particularly the addition that was done.

That's exactly what I was thinking of. Yes, Camberry there. I I know we've gotten calls over the years and their their cars that are parked in the driveways and street parking there. So, go ahead, Joe. I cut you off. No. And I'm just saying what we find is some of the larger vehicles like pickup trucks, they partially block the sidewalk. And I think when we were looking at that particular project, that was coming off of years and years of laying idle and the vacant ground not being cared for well. And we were advised, I believe, by McBride Homes that the type of unit generally is an empty neester, a single professional, generally not as many families. And so I think part of the discussion on this project is just what is the demographic that would be interested in renting these types of units. Are there a lot of families with teenagers? Then we need to think that through the are there a lot of visitors to these prop to these units and the property itself. So we can balance I think a some of the parking against the demographic. But as you know, we pretty much have required additional parking outside the units themselves just because of the circumstances we've discovered in Cambury and a couple other locations. So your point, Mr. Alers and Mr. Mayor are well taken. Thank you.

All right. And then I guess my question is, yeah, I think Director Vun has just started referencing it, but what's your plan? How do you what what are you marketing this towards? who is your target audience and uh tell us a little bit more about that. Will can you address that?

Yes. The ranch homes are generally occupied by uh empty nesters, move down buyers, people that people that are no longer interested in the large family home. They want everything on one level. They don't want to climb any stairs. they don't don't have a lot of don't have kids living with them. Um the twotory units can go either way. Sometimes it's a a couple and they use the extra bedroom for a work from home office. Sometimes it's a a young family had their first baby, moved out of the out of an apartment and moved into a home. Um, you know, if I had to guess, I would say we would have people of all age ranges in here and a mix. That's what we experience in our other property projects uh that use basically the same floor plans and uh we don't have parking issues. We do like to add additional parking where where it's appropriate and some of those comments that have been made tonight are very very good and we can certainly look into that. Uh there's plenty I have a couple of other ideas also that we can look at um to add additional parking. It's a great comment. It's wellreceived and we will uh we will consider it and see how we can improve on the plan.

All right. Um I Councilman Marshall, I see your hand up. Uh but uh Mr. Brown has unless he wants to defer to you as well. Um, I I'll gladly defer to Council Member Marshall if you'd like to go forward. All right, go ahead. You're fine.

Well, I my comment was really directed towards Main Street. Um, and I think there was some confusion about this when it was brought up last in front of council. We we do have a project, the city has a project to improve Main Street. We've been working on it for a few years now. Uh we have a preliminary plan in hand. We're working on rightaway plans. Um we have budgets we have money in our budget for this year and the next two years. So it is a viable project at least in the opinion of public works and I think it should be reflected in your plan to be consistent with the city's plan and I don't see that right now. Um so I guess I wondered why that wasn't the case or if we could get that uh addressed. I would point out that our plan mimics Main Street to the west, has a raised median as Main Street to the west has, and we had a u a break in the in the median poster to your culde-sac where we had intended for access to that property be provided. And I think that's the best place to provide access from Main Street. I think the location you're showing it is too close to Etheston Road and in that location we wouldn't allow it to be a full access anyway. We would put the median across it and it would be a right in right out access. So you'd have two right in right out entrances into the subdivision.

Sure. Can I address that?

Sure. Yeah. So, um, as you know, um, I here's your here's the plan which which you had you had sent to to us. Um, and it's basically uh two two lanes both directions and uh I think this is a common ground area. It's kind of hard to tell without it being colored up, but there's a common ground area in between. So, um, which which is a great plan, but the problem with that plan is I believe, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, that you need the ride away from the north in order to make that happen. So, in order to and that could take some time because I don't think that that rideway is in in place right now. So, what this is is, you can call it an interim plan, you can call it whatever you want, but it gets you a 24 foot piece of pavement without having to get any ride away from the north. And it allows you to get your road from Main Street all the way to the to the through the city park and all the way to to the city hall. I think that uh I see what you're saying, what your plan is, and I would call that okay, your your ultimate plan, but I think it's that's a long long long ways off. um because I don't think you have the rightway or the funds to do it. But maybe I'm wrong, but uh doesn't that require getting the rightway from the north?

Well, it it does, but we've as I sent you, we have rightaway plans that'll be completed within the next month or two, and I think we're we have funds for right away acquisition in our budget for 2025. So, it's I think what I'm trying to tell you is that that's the path we're headed on unless council tells us otherwise. Um that we can be in a position to acquire easements and move forward with construction of Main Street. I think that's should be the plan to try to incorporate it essentially as best we can with your schedule potentially. Uh and I think that's actually quite feasible.

Well, I don't your plan it works within our third our 27. we don't have to give additional rideway to to make that work. So, um we would be dedicating this right here and not building it. So, this is all I need right now to to make this plan work. Um and you know, if if you want to build something different, I don't I don't know what to say, Rick. Um well I I I think we may need to re meet and kind of talk through this further but um I I I think we can certainly um hash it out but it probably does require a little further discussion.

I mean the the that that would be that would be fine. I would I would love to do that. I mean, like I had said previously, you can put this access road anywhere you want it. It it but the further you put it down, the more of Main Street that you're building that that doesn't match your ultimate plan that you would like. Um, but you know, I' I' I'd like to hear more about your your timing and what you have in place to do that because it it appears to be a long ways off after the McBride people fell fell off. Well, if you don't mind if uh chair, if you don't mind if I jump in here. Go ahead, Mr. Lee.

Thank you. Um, just wanted to note too that we do have monies budgeted uh for the project. We would require right away on the northern side. That said, um, when it comes to getting the project done, I'm seeing it's you said 26 24 feet of pavement up there, Mr. Rolls. Correct. So, in that case, is there a way that that could be cut in half and then you'd stretch that downward towards the east and then we would be building towards our original plan, uh, the ultimate plan, I guess, and at least building out that that eastbound lane and and you would just have a one how one lane oneway road there. Yeah,

that that that ended. So, you know, it's not it doesn't go all the way through. So, you would turn right out of here to nowhere.

Yeah, but any other section of Main Street. And obviously, we can't be tied directly to the hip on the development. But I think that if you did that, that actually allow you to move that down and connect the culde-sac to main street and have it be like one master culdeac, if you will. A little better of an entrance. Well, I I think I need to sit down with with Rick and find out what the plan is. We We're dedicating enough right away to do whatever you guys want. The question is what's what's the timing of that? Because there's enough we've we've dedicated enough right away so that we can make this plan work or we can make this plan work. I've had the entrance in this location. I've had we actually originally had a plan where we had an entrance here and an entrance here. Then McBride came in and we changed everything and put our entrance here to line up with theirs even though our plan was ahead of theirs. So now that's where it is on on this plan. So now it's it's just kind of ironic. Everything's being driven by what McBride did and they're not even around anymore. So um I I'm happy to try to to make this work. Again, our rideway we're dedicated enough to to do anything that you'd like. Uh, I mean it to be honest with you, maybe you just give us an access point here and I'm now I'm negotiating in in public, but this is a right in right out. Why don't we make this a full access right now? We dedicate the rightway and then at whatever time you guys get this, if it's only if it's going to be such a short time, then it can be built ultimately. So, so Thomas, to your to your point, we could build our portion of it to right here or wherever and do this, give us a full access right here and then it can get built, you know, in in the future the way that u this plan represents. Probably went way beyond my authority to speak for the developer. So,

oh, appreciate it. But I'd love to sit down with Rick and Thomas and and uh and talk about it. more than happy to. Thank you. And I think that I mean that's a good direction. I think you know at least from some discussions at the most recent economic development meeting it seems like the council's very very adamant about getting something with Main Street done especially with the playground going in um proposed playground going in as well. It it just seems like we're going to have that issue and we're going to have a lot of traffic coming that way. So there's there's going to be a push, I would assume. And that does nothing but help this development. That's why we're that's why we want to give the 37 ft. We want the road to go through.

All right, Councilman Marshall.

Yes. Um, two quick questions. I would agree with the mayor. I think you need to get your sidewalk um away from the water retention and back up to the sidewalk so you don't have kids getting strayed over to the water retention area. As nice as those are supposed to be, kids love to go in there and try to figure out what's going on. So, with the park being there, I would try to get a walkway back up to get onto the main street walkway instead of any kind of cutthroughs to the park. The sec the second item is and this only happens because the US postal system won't deliver these individual houses. I'm guessing you're going to have to have a kiosk for your mailboxes someplace.

That is true. And I I think that's what we're showing right down here. Um so once again uh across the street at uh Bright Leaf where the mailboxes are there also parking area there. So maybe that's uh yeah, I don't think the postal system will do anything as far as home deliveries anymore. They everything they're doing now seems to be in the kiosk. So just to see if that's where it is and that's big enough for everybody. Um that's great. Those were my questions. Thank you. Thank you, Councilman Marshall. Uh Mr. B for

go ahead. Can you hear me? All right, Dave. Yeah, sorry about that. Um, that's

as my major concern is uh or my major point where I raised my hand was Main Street. We have now been on probably five different versions of this plan since 2017 when our first November 17 development review committee. We were actually the very first development review committee project and Main Street has been a perpetual problem. Um we have this project as we show it now. It was trying to provide, as you guys know from October of 2023, an interim plan for your main street, not our main street. We are eager to purs part participate. We are contributing a large sum of money to the ground to contribute it for nothing. Um, we do not need access to Main Street. It's a it's a uh amenity for us. That's a nice one to have, but it's not required. Uh the fireart fire department doesn't require it. Um you know, if you want to do a future main street and we've got $250,000 allocated, maybe it's 200,000 allocated for that 210 ft we've got shown on this existing plan. We'll contribute that. But you know when we got reduced from 55 units to 44 units and we expressed this when this was occurring back in December of last year, January again in February we got denied. The bucket of funds to give to public funding for something that's not our responsibility diminishes greatly. Uh we even offered to build this as a p as a private project to try and save doing as a public project to save the the fees or the costs for labor and construction for

a prevailing wage job. Um so while we want to do the best we can and come up with the various options for the city for the city's benefit for the city's main street. We can't be burdened with your project costs. Um, if we want to put the future access point between lots 16 and 17, we can do that. We have no problem with doing that. We're going to require full access and you can't limit our access under law. Rick, I know you you're saying we can only have right turn access. We can't do that on a public rideway without us having full access onto one of the roads. And I'm sure you're probably aware of that, but we are fine with moving it down there, but we're not going to bear the cost of constructing that section of Main Street from Etherton Road down to lot 16 and 17. So, like I say, we can do we can do the access on Ellton Road, still meet the fire department requirements. Um, Dave hates putting parking in that center island. I' I've always kind of pushed knowing that you guys were going to have a problem with the parking, but we've been trying to keep it uh a lot of green space. I think uh Joe, the mayor's comments were related to we do we meet the uh public space requirements if we do turn that to parking and we still would. We have a gross abundance of uh of public space on this plan. Um, in addition, on prior plans for Main Street, there was about 40 spaces along the south side of Crest View/Main Street in the ultimate plan. And um, in doing your modification, Rick, you have eliminated those parking spaces. So, um, you know, those would be

additional parking spaces under the under a plan two or three years ago that was initially drawn. you guys had 60° parking in front of the um park ground area for 600 ft and then we had parallel parking on our version. So that was about the 2018 or 2019 version of this plan. But yeah, all these all these things can be addressed pretty easily. Um yeah, that is the mailbox on the south side of that culde-sac. That was the intent there. Uh and again doing uh doing either 10 or 20 spaces into that uh inside of that circle would be a pretty easy plan. So that was the last of my comments.

Thank you, Mr. Bosworth. Um is there anything else from the committee? Mr. Chair, this is Joe Vunich.

Yeah, go ahead Joe. Go ahead, Joe. Thank you. From the department's perspective when we began discussing this alternative plan, the department issued a caution to the development entity about trying to put too many trips onto Etherton Road. As you know from the public hearings and subsequent meetings that occurred at planning and zoning commission and city council, we heard a lot from people about just the condition of Etherton Road in terms of its width, lack of pedestrian facilities. So that is why you see that ride in ride out on Etherton Road. The intent was to try to force as many trips as possible on the main street and then through Main Street crossing. Main Street through Main Street crossing is designed to accommodate a certain amount of traffic greater than the existing Otherton Road. So that's the logic behind that. Certainly where that access point on Main Street is, I'll defer to the Department of Public Works, but that particular access as it's shown on the current plan, I think coincides very closely to the right in ride out. And that was part of the intent as well. So there is some logic to all of this and Netherton Road was driving a lot of it. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Vunich. Um are there's for my benefit are there still plans to improve road or those dead on the vine? And I'm not I'm talking the whole length of it, not just near this subdivision. It is budget. It is a project on the capital improvement program. That is correct. Okay. All right. Thank you.

Yes, Mr. Chair. We haven't forgotten about it and it is something that the Department of Public Works has scheduled over the next 5-year period. In fact, I think we're looking at doing some design and engineering in 2026. Rick? Well, possibly. Although I again I think as a city we need to decide what the priority is um and and be clear on that and if the priority is to proceed ahead with Main Street that's going to be what we focus on uh and then and then secondary to that potentially as road improvements. Thank you. Right.

Thank you. Um is there any other Any other comments? If not, I'll look for a motion to adjurnn. Councilman Marshall. So moved. All right. Motion to adjourn by Councilman Marshall. Is there a second? Alber seconds. All right. Thank you. All those in favor of adjourning say I. I. I. Any opposed? Any abstain? All right. Thank you guys. Appreciate everyone's time tonight. Yes. Thank you very much.