Development and Zoning Review Committee - Regular Meeting

Should I continue to wait for the mayor for a minute or two? If you don't mind, Mr. Chair, I'm absolutely also getting on YouTube. So, Oh, okay. It takes a bit to kind of Should I continue to wait for the mayor? Actually, Mr. Chair, if you'd like, we can go ahead and get started. We have four of the five members and we have the two applicants.

Okay. All right. Um, good evening. I'd like to welcome everyone to this meeting of the city's development and zoning review committee. At tonight's meeting, this interested party will introduce and provide a presentation on a development proposal that would be located within the city of Wildwood. Tonight's meeting provides this interested party the opportunity to propose a concept and then hear feedback from this committee which is composed of key city decision makers. One meeting is normally offered for this purpose. However, in certain instances, a second discussion may follow. It is important to note this concept plan is in very preliminary and informal stages of the city's review process and um as such it is subject to change if it proceeds to the uh formal submission process. The committee welcomes the tonight welcomes the public public's attendance tonight via the Zoom webinar platform or streaming live on YouTube, but given the preliminary and informal nature of this presentation, public comment is not being sought at this time. If the proposed development does proceed to the formal submission process, members of the public will have numerous opportunities to address the city's planning and zoning commission and/or city council regarding it at that time. The committee would like to thank you for your attendance at tonight's meeting. All right. Can I get a roll call of commission members, please?

Certainly, Mr. Chair. Council member Alers here. Council member Galani here. Council member Marshall present. Mayor Garano and Chair Bey here. Mr. Chair, we have a quorum. All right. Thank you. Um, does the Department of Planning have any opening comments?

Yes, Mr. Chair. Mr. Mr. Chair and members of the committee, as you know, we typically put together a packet of information for your review and use as we discuss these proposals before the committee tonight. Besides the agenda and the bylaws, we do have a number of items for your consideration, some of which have been provided by the applicants. The first of those is a largecale aerial photog photograph that's been prepared which shows the site relative to the surrounding development pattern. The second is a smaller scale aerial that kind of focuses more on the site and those immediate uses in its vicinity. Also, Mr. Newberry provided you with that smallcale aerial photograph with topo overlaid on top of it. The petitioners have provided their plan sheet. There's also a second plan sheet that kind of indicates just the surrounding network of roadways. There's also a sheet of parking calculations relative to the use which is a child care center. And then a fourth sheet which also includes topographic information and our standard practice for projects in town center. We provided you the regulating plan, the land use chart, those uses that can be considered as part of a proposal and then a summary chart of the guidelines and standards for town center. And with that, Mr. Chair, I'm going to promote the two panelists and if there are any questions regarding any of the items that the department provided there's or as part of the packet uh Miss Ripto and I'd be glad to

answer them at this time. All right. Thank you, Mr. Vinnich. Let's see. Would the petitioner like to uh give their presentation? Yeah. Thank you. So, can you can you hear me? Can everybody hear me? Yes, I can.

Okay, very good. Yeah, obviously this is a very very preliminary um set of plans that we gave you. Um we're really just wanting to to check a few boxes to make sure it's a feasible project and then we can go forward um you know with it and start spending you know more time and effort, money quite frankly on civil design and so forth. I know I've talked with uh Mr. Vunich about the zoning. I I think we're I I I I think there was we think it's feasible as a in terms of the zoning. I don't know what the final ruling was on that, Joe, in terms of uh how you how how you would look at it from a zoning perspective, what avenue we should go, but last I call recall when we spoke, it's there's a couple options that we might have. So like to talk further about that. And so really we're just wanting to look at things like setbacks, ingress, egress, parking ratios, FAR ratios, anything like that that would be, you know, would would would would be difficult to uh to get approved or to go forward. We we kind of know what we need. We're showing basically a 12,000 foot building. We don't think it needs to necessarily be that large. It could be a little bit smaller, but I would I would want to proceed at this point as if it were going to be up to a 12,000t building. there would need to be some significant outdoor space into this daycare and they want, you know, significant playground space. Um, and so that's that's really it. I really would just like to get the feedback. It's a little bit of a difficult site that there is some elevational changes. Um, especially as you get over on the Manchester side, but I I don't think it's I don't think it's anything insurmountable, but there are some there's some there's a waterway that runs through it and there's some elevational changes. Um, I I did I do have a I do do have have a plan uh a retail plan from the current owner who some someone who's owned this property for a long time. I think almost 15 years. They just happened to show the ingress egress coming off of Old

Manchester um closer to for roughly in that location where our plans are showing it right there. So I assume that that they did some preliminary efforts years ago to look into what a good place for a curb cut would be. Um you know that so I just I guess I want to lead with that and just get your feedback along those lines. All right. Thank you. Uh Mr. Vunich, do you have any uh comments initially?

Thank you, Mr. Chair. To Mr. Chimento's point um as you know child care centers can be a conditional use in the NU non- urban resident district.

We had talked about that given that the current zoning which is a C8 plan commercial district that was approved by St. Louis County back in the 1980s is for all intents purposes voided because as you know CA plan commercial districts have performance standards relating to the submittal and approval of the site development plan as well as commencement of construction once that plan is approved. So the thought was, is this a non- urban with a conditional use permit or is it a C8 um planned commercial district? Given the fact that the regulating plan of the town center plan designates it workplace district, the department believes that the CA plan commercial district request is more appropriate. That C8 plan commercial district request would also give more flexibility relative to setbacks. As you can see on the concept plan submitted by the applicants, they're showing a 50-foot setback from Manchester Road and then 40T from the other boundary lines. In the town center with the CA plan commercial district, there's a great deal more flexibility with setbacks, etc. So, if there's any questions regarding how the department settled on the appropriate zoning uh district designation for the site, we'd be again, Miss Ripto and I'd be glad to um answer them. And I do want to make note Rick Brown is here, our director of public works, and he may have some questions relative to the access on the Manchester Road. Uh

Mr. Brown, do you have any comments? Um, no. I mean, I think as far as the reference to the access, I mean, one of the things always comes up and we'll take a take a look at it was the site distance and make sure that the site distance is acceptable at that location. Um, it is a challenging site to build on. Um, it's the opposite of flat. So, um, right be a lot of excavation I would envision to unfortunately get that site buildable. Yeah, I I was kind of surprised that was not all Amber's property with the substation directly west of it. Um but uh yeah, and I guess that entrance exit is more close uh it's I guess that it's pretty close to the entrance for the fire station. Correct. I think I think it is. And could I just ask also is it is it is it necessary to have two curb cuts there? Or could we accomplish the same thing with a with with a single curb cut maybe one lane in one lane out or is is that feasible?

Um yeah, I was I was thinking the same thing, but I'll defer to Mr. Bunich and Mr. Brown. Well, I'm going to defer to Mr. Brown. Well, I I guess I don't know of a requirement that you would have two driveways unless the fire marshall would be the one that said that. No, no. I I think that my uh my designer who is my who is my son in his last year of architectural school, I thought it might be a good idea to have two two mains of ingress egress. But um that I I didn't hear that from anybody else. Yeah.

So I mean OB obviously one one curb cut one ingress egress would be much easier because there is going to be some excavation and some um you know consideration of the of the topography there in terms of climbing up that hill and so forth. You considering it is a school and and they'll be coming in and leaving. I think two would be a greater concern because you'll get to the road and then you'll not know who's going to go first or who's going to go second. So, I would think one would be a lot more compatible. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. That close together. If you were going to do two, I would do one way in and one way out rather than two-way on both of them. Yeah, probably. Yeah. Yeah.

Um, but yeah, I would I was just going to pull up Google Maps and look at that uh child care center across from Babler Elementary and because I'm almost positive there's only one there. There's only one. You're right. Yeah. Um, so I also think I also think, Mr. Chair, a single access point is easier to align with one of the driveways across the street that's part of the fire district's headquarters instead of trying to align two of them. M Mr. V, would that would your recommendation then be, Mr. V, that we align with that ingress egress from the fire department from the fire station?

Mr. Brown, if you wouldn't mind. This is your area of expertise. Yeah. No, Joe's on the right direction there. It would always be advisable if we can align it if that is possible. You do have that. There's a large box covert that an old large box cover under Manchester Road at that location too that you'd have to design around as well. But, uh, that would be best if you can do it. Um, this is Cliff. I was going to ask how close is the Amaran substation to this just that we know that's that's west of the red line there I guess.

Yes. Yeah. Yes. Mr. Albert is that this area here if you can see my cursor is the substation here's the common boundary and for the most part the development is in this general area. Okay.

I don't I don't know if that presents any concerns or challenges to the the project or um or not. That's just just was wondering how close it would be. And uh looks like the uh there's some some trees and stuff maybe to maybe would be blocking the view of that, you know. Did I see that right? Yeah, there is the Mr. Alers. There is a tree line at least on the subject site. As you can see, Amaran's for the most part removed most of the vegetation around the substation, which I think is typical

because they're concerned about trees and debris falling into the the the transformer areas. Sure. Sure.

And I looking at those preliminary maps, I feel like most of those trees along the border are going to go away if this were to happen. um just with the ex excavation that I think they would need to do because it looked like the am looking at those contours the Amaran site they've looks like they excavated a fair amount for that just looking at those contours there and so it's kind of a what we call in the orientering community a spur on the western edge going down going downhill from the bank area Manchester.

Yeah. Yeah. The steepest topography is right there, you know, at at the point of the triangle that that is closest to Manchester. That's where it gets really steep right there. So, that's why we're trying to avoid that corner. It's really not too bad. Once you get up onto the site, it's really it's really the grades are are fine. It's really just kind of that little that little initial climb to get up to that that level. Um, which I think is doable, but we just have to figure out, you know, what the slope is. And is there any is there any guidance you can give us on that? How steep can that road be? Can can the driveway coming in off of Manchester be? What what kind of gradient?

Again, Mr. Tomento, that's something Mr. Brown can provide. And I don't know if he's in a position to do it right at this moment, but we can certainly get that information to you, Mr. Brown. I don't want to put you on the spot either. Well, I mean, yeah, you're obviously at some point pull in an engineer to start working on a site, but I think 15% is the maximum grade that we typically would allow on a driveway, although I wouldn't necessarily recommend it. Um, right. It might be a trade-off there on what's desirable and what's allowable.

Yeah. How how about parking ratios? Um I I think m Mr. Kurthers is is would be the would be the owner operator of this property. I I would be the developer. Um and I I would actually probably own the property and lease it to him. Um he was thinking I think he had he had a count of maybe 37 parking spots that would be needed. Um, is there any is there any requirement for a 12,000 foot bill? Is it is it three per thousand? Mr. Chimento, I'm checking in I want to give you accurate information and not shoot off the hip here. Yeah, let me find it. It'll just take me a second.

Okay. And uh Mr. Chimeto, are are there plans with all this grading that that you'll have to put some retaining walls in on certain sides or or do you see that having I don't know. I would if I did, I would do the retaining walls on the outside perimeter of the buildable site, you know, try and rather than have a series of retaining walls. But, you know, if I I suspect there'll probably be some retaining walls at some point along here. Okay. I don't know for sure. Well, you know, once we once we dive in with a real civil engineer, we'll know that fairly quickly. Thank you.

And is that the the 12,000 square foot of what's marked on there on that plan, is that the entirety of the building? I know you said you would need some extensive outside like playground area and things like that since it's a daycare. So, does that 12,046 square foot encompass that outdoor area, too, or is that strictly the building? And if so, where would that outdoor area go? That's strictly the building. So, the so the outdoor area would go, you know, to the south of it and I guess to the west, like where those trees are on the drawing.

Yeah. And then I guess the other question I had was relating to the Good News Brewing which is just next door over there on the north um or or the south southeast side um adjacent. Well, how much of that tree line would be excavated out of there? Would there be some type of buffer remain between because obviously the daycare and and a bar? Yeah, I I think that most of it would remain if you can see that blue line which is kind of you can't see on this one but there right yeah on this one that that kind of little creek bed I don't think we would go I don't see any reason why we would go further east than that creek line right there because it gets it's not very buildable.

Okay. So I think most of that would be left in place. So Mr. Chime and to the members of the committee the ratio out of the zoning code is one space for every six children. So, it's not premised on a square footage, but on the number of children. Okay. One space per six children. Okay. Good to know. Thank you.

Mhm. I don't assume there's any height limitations. This would be a one-story building. I don't see that being an issue. Am um am I correct? Um, in the workplace district, I believe it can even be up to a threestory building in certain instances, but principally two stories is never a problem. Yeah, this this would be one stories. And then getting back to the setback issue, you said that the setbacks in this in the uh in in the uh town center workplace plan are more generous than what we have here.

U very much so, sir. Um, they can be relative to the front yard area, which is Manchester Road, they can be as minimal as 10 feet. And around the perimeter, except for the rear yard setback, they can be anywhere from 5 to six feet. And then the rear yard setback, we try to keep the standard to 30 ft.

Okay. I mean, part of what it'll be, there are some very nice large oak trees on the property. I would think we would try to, you know, somewhat work around a couple of those. Um, if they've got a lot of life left in them, they would provide shade and nice playground areas. So, that would be, you know, that that gives us some flexibility to kind of work around some of that. And Mr. Chair, I just promoted the mayor.

Okay. Welcome in, Mayor Garano. I was going to um ask one more question relating to I don't know how with that size of a building I don't know how many children they were anticipating would be part of the the daycare but my one concern would be that's a pretty relatively busy intersection there at 109 and in Old Manchester and then you've got the fire station right there which would you're looking lining up your in, you know, ingress egress over there to to enter and exit. And then you've got the the neighborhood just just up to the east right there. Um, my one concern there would be there's a lot it's a small area leading up to a bigger intersection where there could be a significant amount of traffic, especially in the morning and the afternoon at drop off and pickup times. Um, I don't know if if if the fire department would have any input on that as far as how that would potentially affect if if they were trying to get in and out of the the firehouse for an emergency and there was a bunch of cars coming in and out of there and backed up traffic.

Yeah, that's that that's that's a good point, Mr. Galani. The one comment I would make is that the drop off period and the pickup period for a daycare like this is a pretty wide open is a pretty wide time frame. Very wide time frame. I think they if in fact Mr. If Mr. Kthers wants to uh speak to this, he he can. But I I want to say they're open from 6:00 to 6, you know, and people drop off anytime between 6:00 and 9:30, you know, and then pick up anytime from 3 to 6:00, you know, with some even earlier than that. So, it's a I I don't think there's like a rush hour. Um but I and Mr. Kthers already operates uh a couple daycare facilities and he could speak to that more clearly, but I I know that's the case.

Yes. Uh, so it like Mr. Chimento said, it's uh we're open 6:00 to 6:00 and parents drop off anywhere from 6:00 a.m. to 9:00 a.m. and they pick up between 3 and 6. And we've never I've not once seen anybody having to wait on the road uh to come in and out of the parking lot. We have a school in Chesterfield and one in Eureka.

Thank you. And yeah, and from my experience, I yeah, I I figure at child care like this, it's not going to be like an elementary school where you have a line of cars waiting on a 3:30 or 3:30 or 4:00 or whenever drop or pickup. Um, so yeah, I I I see where you guys are coming from and I tend to agree and um I don't it's I live on Viola Gill and it's not normally a problem for me turning left and on to my street from Manchester. So, and the fire station, I think they exit onto 109 as much as anything from my experience.

I think they do exit onto 109 as well. Yeah, this isn't showing it, but I I I think that's right. Yeah, there's an exit just north of where the photo ends. Okay. In

in terms of the general use, what is the feeling of the committee about that? I I guess I just assume that, you know, people always welcome daycare centers. It's a it's a critical need and Keller's Academy does a great job. They've got a great reputation. Um I believe they're at capacity at their at their two current locations. What is the what is the feeling about a daycare center at this at this location? I mean, Mr. Vunich, aren't I mean, I guess daycare centers are while they are a conditional use permit, um, schools are generally permitted by right with zoning, aren't they?

Uh, schools are uh, child care centers are not. They require a conditional use permit in the non- urban resident district in many of the R districts. In this particular case, if this project were to move forward, given that this is a workplace district under the regulating plan of town center, we would ask for a commercial zoning here. And a commercial zoning, obviously, one of the uses in the workplace district are child care centers. So, it's an option. All right. Uh, thanks, Mayor Garitano.

Yeah. Thank you very much. uh and I was just commenting on the question uh about the type of use there. I mean I have not heard of any issues with that kind of use. In fact um I think it's a need for our community from what I've heard in passing from folks there are wait list to uh get type of daycare help. So, uh, this might help fill that need that folks, uh, seem to have mentioned from time to time. So, uh I think that given the land use and what it calls for on that site and what this uh that this allows this type, this probably would be a good use that um would work well in that spot because I don't see it being a type of place that runs 24/7 or on weekends. So, kind of gives it some downtime for the residential area. Um there

that's that's correct. It's a it's a Monday through Friday 6 am to 6 pm operation. That's correct. Um

so Mr. Chair, just a couple of responses to the questions. Um, first and foremost, any project before it proceeds to public hearing before the planning and zoning commission will send the plan set over to the fire marshall at Metro West and ask for any comments. So, we'll assume that if there's concerns about access or stacking, the fire marshall will identify them and we can work on addressing them. Um, I would also note though that at least when I go home at 5:00 or 5:30 and head west on Route 109 and stage in that left turn lane to go south on Route 109, there can be a pretty big stacking issue there. Um, that light favors Route 109 and that turn those those turns are generally um less um prioritized. So, we'll ask MoDOT to take a look at the plan as well along with Mr. Brown, who's our uh PTOE, our professional traffic operating engineer. And I hate to cast a a sour note, but as you can see, the site is heavily wooded. And based upon what's been described, most of that tree tree area is going to be removed. And there is a substantial amount of grading I think to make this work. So we're going to ask the applicants if they proceed forward to do their best to minimize grading and maximize tree preservation. Those are two key components for the department's support down the road. So just want to get that out on the table and thank you.

Is there any is there any criteria we need to meet? I mean it's always good to work towards you know a a uh some specific standards certainly Mr. Chimento and what uh what we can do is we can provide you the key elements of the tree preservation and restoration code and the grading code so you can kind of work from them. We won't give you the the entire volume so to speak, but we'll give you those things we look at first and foremost so that you can use those as your kind of guide or guard rails.

Okay. Yeah. I I think there's I think there's some alignment in terms of the goals of that. I mean, I think that preserving some of the larger, you know, oak trees on the site would be would be beneficial, you know, in terms of shading the building, providing a nice, you know, a nice environment for for the daycare. I mean, it increases the gutter cleaning, but that's okay. It's not a It's not a big deal. Um, gutter guard. Gutter guard. Mayor,

yeah, I just I do just want to echo that and and what uh Director Vunage mentioned. Yeah. Anything that can be done to help preserve the trees there would be uh well uh received by residents of Wildwood. And so, you know, as we see these opportunities, sometimes even it's like, you know, even some of the trees uh along the perimeter or uh maybe some that are along the road there just to kind of make sure it doesn't give that impression that's just been completely clearcut so that we're, you know, trying to preserve that wildwood feeling there. That's that's going to go a long way.

Yeah. Okay. Okay. Well, I I don't I don't really have anything else. I think you've given me, you know, some some, you know, um good ideas here. I don't see any blaring, you know, red lights at this point. Uh I hear your concerns and uh I think the next step is just to get a a civil engineer and architect to kind of slice and dice the location and uh to achieve some of the things we've discussed here. All right. Are there any other questions from the comm committee? Um, Mr. Chair,

um, Mr. Kurthers made a kind of interesting statement when we first met with him. Part of the reason he's looking at this location is because of the reserve and the 115 new homes there. Mr. Kthers, would you like to mention anything about them? We typically like to look at locations that are uh in upandcoming neighborhoods where families are starting out. Um this kind of has the best of both worlds. There's there's neighborhoods that have been there for a long time. And then we've got the new one and uh we also love being next to the fire department. Um in Chesterfield we're right next door. So the kids, we get to take them over there and and and do demonstrations and and things like they love that and the parents love that they're they're right across the street from EMTs for for when an emergency happens and it just it's a great location.

Thank you. That makes a lot of sense. Um I know a lot of little kids who would be staring out that window all day if they could. And some big kids, too. Um but yeah, so if um no one has anything else, uh I'd like to get a motion to adjourn. Uh motion by Councilman Galani, seconded by Councilman Marshall. All those in favor say I. I. I. I.

Any opposed? Any abstain? All right, we're journed. Thank you. Thank you all. We appreciate your attendance. Mr.