Architectural Review Board - Regular Meeting

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we have everybody here the affecting yes sir we and one more um Robin are we live welcome yes are we live could i m us I just took it off the M we are ready to go okay uh I'm call this meeting to order uh and ask the staff if he would to make the roll call Jer ay here member Parsons here commission liaison con commission leison Nan here uh secretary Ritter here alternate barles Meer Vice chair Jones here uh member man here the uh zo and Alternate rman here and we have a Corum okay um you have some minutes that were distributed uh a motion would be in order to approve the minutes of the December 12th meeting R moves second parts and seconds moved Carson seconded thank you any changes or Corrections all those in favor say I I those oppose nay the eyes have it the minutes of the December 12th meeting are approved um tonight we will just have one item in the agenda which would be the ne West gas I'm not aware of anything else but if there's anything else that we need to adjust for the agenda I would ask for to do so seeing none we'll proceed uh going through the routine here uh other than what we're doing with midw gas are there any any

public comments uh that we have from anybody in seeing n we will move on uh and know online that we think that couldn't tell no online I'm presuming Robin I don't believe we had anyone online okay I would presume not but I want to be sure well the civil engineer for the project said that he would probably participate with zoom but not I'm not in charge of him don't know that's when we get to the case we get to the case okay I think we saw him on Zoom that now all right uh any old business I'm not aware of any not we'll move on to new business and ask the staff if you would to read in the case Mr chair our our only case this evening is Midwest gas supply uh 16964 Manchester Road which is an initial review of a proposed warehouse and off Edition to the rear of an existing commercial building located within the Wildwood Town Center along Manchester Road and with Frontage on Woods Avenue staff have prepared a presentation uh for you this evening to introduce the case before the applicant makes their presentation uh so as noted um our F first case concerns in addition to the rear an exer existing commercial building uh this building's located uh within our historic Grover community and Midwest gas equipment has been part of this community uh since 2012 when they first occupied the building uh the subject of this review is located within the Wildwood Town Center um in its workplace district and it's zoned

get those um and it's Zone C8 planned commercial District which is governed by ordinance number uh 2754 and that also guides uh the development of two other buildings in that same location uh the subject property has a Manchester Road address but it does have significant Frontage along Woods Avenue uh the applicant has provided photos of the existing building and surrounding properties uh this is the existing building um and then they are also uh this this building here is located at Manchester Road in front of this building to the north um it's home to JPB wellness and SSM physical therapy this is the rear of that building and then this is the Wildwood Athletics Center um all of these buildings uh generally maintain the S same architectural character and operate as a unit uh as noted the subject property does have significant Frontage along Woods Avenue or Woods Road uh this road is a Scenic or historic byway which is identified on the Wildwood points of interest map it's actually one of this area's earliest roads um having documented existence in the early 1800s it's named for Robert Woods of the woods chrisy and Co fogging company and it's generally known for its feeling of full immersion into the woods um as you travel a narrow Winding Road through heavily treed Hills

the reason we're talking about that is because uh the the rear Edition uh that we're talking about today will have some visibility from Woods Road um so here is a picture standing at Woods Road uh looking Northwest at the existing uh rear of the subject building and also um two residences that have um are in that same general proximity to it um it should be noted as we go through these photos that the rear Edition will bring um the subject to building 23 feet closer to Woods Road uh this photo is looking a little more northward at the existing rear of the building from Woods and um here is another look of it with a little bit more of a Westward um view of it as you can see the existing rear of the subject building does have a wraparound deck and um a number of Windows that give it a more residential appearance uh this picture is looking Northwest at the southeast corner of the subject building from Woods and then this is a closer view of that side elevation these are the elevations that have been provided by the applicant in their application um that you should have before you this evening we happy to report uh that the department did receive a set of earlier elevations and uh we had some comments

regarding them in large part due to uh breaking up some of the siding on the uh the rear Edition and uh with that feedback uh the applicant did graciously um add some windows um which you can see in the current uh rear elevation that did break up that sighting a little bit than what was there previously uh we do believe uh that this addition did significantly improve um the look of this new addition and made a big difference and we're very appreciative of those changes uh we do have some additional suggestions just for the applicant to consider uh we're very attuned uh to the cost element of this and so uh these are are meant to be suggestions uh we want to find the balance uh but we would love it if you would consider uh potentially adding shutter similar to what is on the front and and one of the sides of the structure um to this rear elevation particularly on that Second Story um and also I think the side elevation doesn't have shutters either um so we think that would make it a more attractive um building and and hopefully wouldn't be too much of an addition to it um additionally it was just noted and again these are more suggestions than anything um but it was suggested that that this window here be aligned with the windows that are on the bottom story of the rear Edition and uh our director also had the comment that perhaps it would look better if but instead of three individual Windows there might be two of these larger Windows um in this General location but admittedly we understand there's office space down there and the windows might

have something to do with the layout of the offices so again um that's just a suggestion the department but again um we do believe that the the addition of these windows really made a difference from what we reviewed previously um so at this time we'll conclude our comments and We'll advise the board that it does need to approve approve with conditions or continue this application this evening uh the applicants are here also uh to present and can ask um or and can answer your questions and I do have a full set of plans if you need me at all turn it over to you unless you have any applications at this time for the or applications questions for the Department uh I'm up yep please I have a question I may uh you said 23 feet closer to Woods Road and my eyes are kind of filing me on the plot plan so how close is this building going to be when it's finished Woods to the road to the road yeah Dennis is the smart one here probably do the maap on the spot plan but I can't see the the current yeah you know these 11 by 17s are fairly I think Rob said 23 ft closer 23t closer and I yeah the addition 23 feet deep so it's going to be U the existing back of the building it is we're adding on 23t by the 87 87 um and so is that 75 ft currently almost from the deck maybe quite a

way he's got some uh on the site plan here he's got some Dimensions from the property line is some sort of a setback find they have there it's pretty far 70 some feet away yeah that's what it looks like okay I answer it thank you yeah amazingly you guys were able to take some very nice pictures of that building from the road I I think in the winter in the Snow Hill little rugged but there's a lot of trees there it get gets hidden um yeah I think Robin did a great job of explaining the project with everybody having in their head what we're doing um so I'm not going to repeat all that we kind of know what we're doing um we as far as the uh comment about the windows lining up I went a different way with it I just went with kind of a equal spacing on that that floor instead of trying to line up windows with what below um and as far as grouping the windows below you know it's kind of based on the floor plan the lowest level is an office space and so more windows are needed for individual offices the the first floor is the actual warehouse space where pallets and things will be up against the wall and really diminish the value of the windows a lot of times and U and the ceiling in that area is what did you 17 feet yeah it's instead of expanding

the flip Grint we went up uh to get the required storage that they need so it's a very tall uh room but U top don't huh the two on top are flexible you line them up with the two outer the two the ones on top are flexible so if you just line them up with the two outer ones blow singles um no we I mean I don't I don't see any reason that we can't line them up I mean that is a that's a seems easy that's a tendency that everybody everybody kind of likes you just we just spread them across there but no we can the center one we can line up with the window below we can actually have the one on the far right uh centered on the two on the bottom if you will the one the one door can be moved it could be centered over those two but that's just a door out to or you know are we saying that I was just saying if you can take this one and move it over that one and that one and move it over that one okay maybe that would we going to have unequal spacing of Windows on that L floor I think I think you're probably looking aesthetically from the exterior because in the inside it's a warehous I mean it's storage the ones on the middle floor can go anywhere you want yeah that's one that's what she suggest you're asking us to line them up I'm okay with it are you okay with it I mean it's a storage room so I see why you're doing it below I see the cubicles having I see those really aren't go but I think that that's an easy yeah that's an easy do I think that's easier than anything as far as the shutters go the one side of the building uh existing side does not have any shutters what the

other side did uh and so we just followed the lead on the one side because shutters are the cost item and it was already there it obviously it's just a suggestion so that will be up to the owners whether they want to put shutters all the way around um the building are we saying every window ought to have shutters would that be the suggestion I would say the suggestion would be the top uh the top windows on that rear Edition and then also on the left side elevation that left side elevation and then there's also a lone window I think on the right side elevation that doesn't have sh the right okay so yeah the right one's not visible but the back one we were G to do the side anyway and the front because I when I bought the building in 12 just any so we were gonna do shutter wasn't going to do them on the back but can't see why those three Windows would make a difference honestly there is trim around the three windows on the bag well there's two windows one's the door yeah two window I think that's a if if that was your intention to do it anyway yes okay two windows on the back yes yeah yeah we can do those EXT okay are we doing it down the side on all the one two three four five yes because they're worn out they have to be replacing you're okay with that okay we will we will add shutters getting back totic V mention terms of the distance and whatever is there going to be removal Crees uh to do this and how many what what's or to get that extension of the land and because again I think the concern is we're looking at the road and the visibility

if you're removing trees more visible we want to remove as few as we have just to get the you know we're going to have to go I don't know maybe 10 feet away from the back of the building to build it all but that's all you know and it's heavily wooded in the summer you don't even see the building yeah in the summer I I did a a Google map which uh is apparently a summer image and it's all green the other pictures you have in the winter you can you can see it through the tree but that's why I wondered what you would get so right now the deck goes out 10 or 12 feet so there's no trees there right so if we had to take any trees out I think there I think we did Count like four or five maybe even six it had to come out they were on that back area the next 10 feet but we told them that we would you know replay if we have to do some other trees we can put some trees in if we need to take you know put somewh in but there's it's heavily wooded so are they big trees or little trees yeah the ones that are down there I mean that's been there a long time okay well the only thing I mention is that I know there somewhere along the line we have a tree ordinance or during the removal of big trees that you may need to take into account I don't know what the how the tree ordinance and whether they need to get a permeter what they need for that but I just call it okay is that ARB no that's the F looking to Melanie or Robin to uh working on a site development plan that's almost that is has almost been approved and so everything pertaining to the permits for the trees and approval of that will be taken care of along the way okay right um is there any Lighting on the back of building no there'll be one at the door I know any door gets a light like up high kind of lightings I don't think so I don't know we yeah I I would say maybe a couple of flood lights on the end well I think there the concern is You' got flood

lights on the end or do you start drawing attention to it as opposed to the wooded area you may want security I don't know on the other side there is you know houses that aren't too far where we're not building out but there's houses aren't too far away and we don't want to shine you can see some of their living rooms for we don't want to shine their Windows while we're not there because they're trying to sleep and we're not the only the only thing is that the code requires that there be a light if there's a door and that's that was the intention to have a light at the minimum is a light at every door and there's two doors uh well actually three two two one at the deck and one one down below be flood lights right they regular they can just be regular coach lights or you want to light it up in the back or not I don't think so I mean we've never had that we've never had are you going for left lighting left lighting AB okay yeah left lighting we got we got code minimum less yeah that'll be two lights two lights little bitty lights like a flashlight taped up there um the other question I had is it it looks like you're adding employees yeah we are yeah we have add a few employees because as I looked at both that as well as what showed on the Google Map was how many parking places do you have now well we share with Mike we sold Mike our building in the front so he has two buildings there and we share and our timing we have like 75 total in our parking lot and we all share them um with the gr we're all called The Grove and so we all share them and none of our times are the same like his people are there super early and then they're gone and then we're there and then the SSM people are up front and there's only a few of them we always have tons of parking available okay that's why I wasn't sure whether whether what the parking R were if you didn't own the with a parking lot F so you have rights to be able to use the yes we do and we

share we all share it and then we all pay all of our fees together and we kind of pay into a little kitty we've done it forever okay yeah and Elmer is our civil engineer he he did a study on it I think it's appropriate no anyone else have any sprinkle no no I'm not currently up to what is county code on exit travel distance looks like you've got one that's about 35 ft from your side exit as a dead end also looks like you're taking your front door off no that that is a door that go so this was originally offices when I bought it and we made it into one and that's a door that we don't use it's like into a part of the warehouse and the office starts where that blue door is and that's where the office understand my point is that in the warehouse you have a portion that is probably 35 foot travel distance as a dead end do you have to have either I don't there is an exit there's couple exits back there um doors don't count no there's there's other exit doors there's three exit doors I think one I think what he's saying is the distance from here to any door could be an travel you just need to check the code yeah I'm sure County will take care of yeah yeah yeah but if you had to put a door back there I right for sure yeah okay yeah you're just being helpful right now to all try to be helpful all so we don't run into it later it is

if you put that door if you take that door off it makes the front look unbalanced it's a very formal front entry we're actually eliminating rors this used to be a four unit building six bu six unit building crazy so I'm just asking that you check that a for code and B if you have to do something with that door to have it exit that end of that warehouse portion leave the door there yeah issue that we've had throughout the years is people don't know where to go because there's so many doors there and they're all closed and we don't use them because it was just for other offices if people don't know where to go they come to our building so we have to have signs on all the flors saying this isn't really a door it just looks like one so that's the only door we ever use but I understand what you're saying about protection and being able to get out uh if if the if if the county reviews it and says is that that it is a dead end situation right there a door can be added very easily but the building is not sprinklered okay because the business use and the actual moderate uh storage has no requirement for sprinkler reason I asked about sprinkler is it it would eliminate a lot of that it would increase your travel distances and everything like that yes so they'll tell us whether they believe that that's an issue or not in that process of of submitting set of documents on that as a matter of fact this this phase right here on that plan is under a separate permit than what we're talking about tonight because this is um this is the addition because this is an exterior issue phase one is just they're just going to cut rehab the inside of the building and that's a that's what the phase one is all about so what raised my

curiosity is that it's drawn like it's being demoed yeah this that portion the existing building will event is part of a phase one remodel that will occur under a separate separate contract that we were only required to submit this to the ARB because we're adding to the building and it's not but I think if you start to modify the front of the building what you're saying is it needs to be well is it is part of this plan that says these these doors were being removed because like they said it was an issue of where do you go situation so they just had a single entrance now they'll just replace those with Windows but yes we we did make that part of uh you've got two porchers and if that bigger porch needed a door to make it look sensible is that kind of where you're going I think all he's saying is that if you start to change the front of the building then we need to look at that as well I think that's what he's saying and then he's trying to point out the the code violation right well so if we if the code ends up not being an issue I guess we could put a window in there if that becomes an issue with you guys too we don't want the door there because that's been an issue but at the same time one the POR we got here would you be okay if that was your door is that a door right now where you at's your front door a window right here you made all these windows right so this is a porch and it doesn't have so maybe one of those could could one of those remain is that is that what we're talking about she's talking about this right here yeah well they're saying if we change this we got to show it we

gotta they're showing what we want to do they're saying maybe it looks not right without a door under that porch is that what we're saying that was the second portion of my concern was it's a very formal front the left side of that had two doors both particularly located in relationship to the columns on the front of the building right the other side is different but still balanced and you made the left side look unintentional as we did the building also yeah also where you where it's right here and it looks where there's Windows those are actually doors now so we have door door door door so if we need to put a window here to balance it out if that's your concern we can do that as well which is the main door you use this that one over there yeah because this actually just goes to the warehouse we were hoping to keep that without a door just so we could use it for extra skid space because we're so out of space in our warehouse on the other if you simply marked it emergency exit only people would come to it and see as an emergency exit they would go to the other doors from the outside Market that way outside and inside what whatever you need to do but you know people if it says emergency exit only you're not going to see people rly using it it's just an idea in terms of how to approach it keeping the door but limiting its use the office configuration if we leave it door there under the other yeah side the porch has PCH well there I mean it's you could put a door there but it's in a it's in a private office an office that's in an office and there's actually that's an office that has cubicles in it and that door would be right in the middle I already have an issue with that there's two doors under that thing right now there are now yes

correct all right well what do we need to do to get past first is the issue of you have an exit violation issue howy will drive you on that if they say you have an exit issue leave the door if they say you don't have an exit issue I'd suggest putting a window in there that solves your problem of having people come up and say can I get in here store okay so you're approving it with all windows all windows no not all with the one door and what we've drawn are you approving what we've drawn that being if we don't have an exit issue yes okay so just put so if if county says put a door there we'll put a door there yeah all right so and you can and you can go without you I'm see where they so that you still you're not seeing there I can see why you wouldn't want that to be not talking when you're talking about the door are you talking about over here no no you're talking about putting this one back that's where you're fire where you're worried about the fire thing okay yeah well you don't have the windows over there look because this distance looks to be about 35 there there is a side exit on that side I saying the exit to the bottom it's on it's on the platform right here show it is so there's

already so here's the front of our building yes that's an existing uh door to the outside right now that will stay where it is I understand it okay he's saying this this distance could exceed your travel limitations your building and it is more than 35 ft there I think a little bit it's not it's not really far but it might be a little B your construction type the dist what he's talking about is the distance from here to here yeah exceeding without sprinklers you might still need another exit over here's concerned throw a chair through one of our Windows he's concerned that County will drive seat nice like golden Hammer there other than that I think it's fabulous yeah I would have rather have one window there but we shouldn't do that because of office we had to have two there this is the way it works we try to rework it over and over with the plans but it's make it work other way this is yeah this is the wall so the door would be right here if if if the travel distance is too great we can leave that door in yes that's what is what we're saying yes okay um okay that will be driven by County's review of of that any other questions or comments no so are we approving this or are there conditions a conditional approv do we have conditions dealing with the do or the door we don't need to worry about the doors because that would be the county county issue County issue will take care of the door take care of the doors we the other concern was the

balance of the front elevation we should probably we add the window if it is not a door right and I think that um you have three Windows drawn in the warehouse we you might be able to move that rack if you had to use the have the door so you wouldn't lose any rack because on here you have three Windows you're showing I think and you only had two prob right now we're solid Windows along the back now and we still have racking up against it it's not ideal but we have it there yeah I just don't want have to lose any store yeah so we have a condition or not we do have a condition okay the condition is a window if it's not a it's not a door so so a motion would be in order to approve with the condition that uh and I don't remember which door it is but there be a window if there if there's not a door there do we have to add the shutters on the window moves on simply suggestion is that something we can it sounds like the building is going to get shutters all the way around the only thing that's not going to get shut is the L the lowest level and uh so my understanding if county says travel distance an issue this door stays y if it if County does not have an issue that will become a window with shutters yeah that's it okay wall of windows in the front that all right any other discussion motion would be an order to approve with that condition I'll make the motion R makes the motion Mr Parson seconds any discussion all those in favor say I I I I the eyes have it you have your ARB action thank thank you how do we it just you'll review these again sometime or what you don't no the architecture review board you have your final

approval here um we will need a final set of plans with either the window or the door after the ARB recommendations will be given to somebody we did yeah so when you apply for your Municipal zoning approval that can only be approved with the airb approval and so we'll need those plans as part of the building or the municipal zoning approval anyway this set right here is the phase two which is the addition and that I will take care of that yeah under that phase to submitt for for you correct so yes and so only that um if you want to send us the plans um after they're completed with the shutters and everything where they're supposed to be at so that we can include it in for the architecture review approval that would be fantastic all right I'll I'll stay in touch with you perfect thank you shutters door or window yeah cut door window got it got it thank you very much thank you thank you you very much all right um very friendly ARB by the way got a lot of suggestions all right always had good luck up here we've had lots of any other items for this evening um if not our next meeting date if needed is Thursday February 13th and a motion to adjourn is in order will move and I'll give Miss Jones a credit for the second and all the say hi hi the eyes have it thank you