Village Board - Regular Meeting

It's that is the All right. I will call to order uh the village hall meeting of Monday, November 17th. Aaron, could you please call the role? Uh yes. President Buckley, not here. Trusty Deppen here. Trusty Hower here. Trusty Casper here. Trustee Saunders, she's keeping us on her toes. Kevin uh here. Trusty Sarah Ben here. And trusty Ben Even Hovind here. All right. You're switching up the order. The batting order gets changed every single time now. All right.

Uh first item on the agenda is the consent agenda. Uh we have five items. the minutes of the regular meeting November 3rd, a check register for October 2025, investment report for October, the 2026 bid operating plan, and finally a contract with tall grass restoration that will provide annual ecological maintenance services for bioail areas. There any which by the way was um vetted by the public works committee and unanimously approved. Uh, are there any further comments about the consent agenda? Hearing none, I would entertain motion number whatever it is.

I move that the village board approve the consent agenda as presented. Thank you. Do I hear a second? Second. Thank you, Sam. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor say I. I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you. Moving on to the report of the village officers. Mr. Mr. V attorney going to be a busy night looking at the agenda, but you don't need anything from the village attorney at this point. Oh, and it's nothing to report. Nothing to report. And you just you're telling us that maybe you'd want to leave early. No, no, no. Uh was village manager.

Sure. Um the first Sendix redevelopment update was sent on Friday. Uh so just a reminder to the board and to the public that if you're not signed up for that newsletter, I recommend that you do so. Um, we'll be sending those updates as needed, but at least initially, likely weekly, um, until basically focusing that newsletter more on the right ofway impacts. So, if there's parking impacts um, on the street as well as street closures and sidewalk closures, that's what we'll really be focusing on. Uh, we also updated our bi-weekly newsletter. Um, and that new format was sent out on Monday. So, great job to Anna and Alex on that. Uh and then last but certainly not least, 150 trees uh and bushes were delivered to the new arboritum which is the library park area which is just north of the library uh today. So great work. Oh, we got some fans. So great work to Matt. Um and especially because he was able to get all of those trees um mostly using grant funding or I think 100% using grant funded funding through MMSD. So extra great work on that. All right. Thank you. Uh I I don't have much of a village president report other than to say uh happy Thanksgiving uh 12 days in advance. Um I'm very thankful for the excellent village staff we have, but also of our wonderful village board members who toil away voluntarily every few weeks coming here to wonderful meetings. Um I I very much appreciate all the work that everyone puts in to the to managing the village and to leading the village. Any other miscellaneous trustee comments? Yeah, I just wanted Oh, go ahead, Jacob.

I was just gonna say on the topic of Thanksgiving, don't forget that the holiday stroll is the day after Thanksgiving and it's quite enjoyable. J,

and I just really quick um uh wanted to go on record and say congratulations to a few groups um that have uh made our uh made our village proud over the last couple of weeks. And just in the last couple weeks, we've got the White Fishbake High School girls swimming and diving team with their second consecutive state championship. The high school boys soccer team, I had to write this down. Uh state champions uh girls cross country team placed fifth at state and had a freshman runner finished third overall. And then the Whitefish Bay football team. Um a crazy Cinderella story that got a lot of um a lot of local uh press attention. And then the Whitefish Bay Theater Department just wrapped up yesterday their um weekend of performances of Little Women. And from uh what I heard from my wife and daughter, it was absolutely fantastic. So, I want to we are very fortunate to have um great uh great teachers and leaders uh at our especially at our high school level that are able to um help our students in a variety of different ways. And I just wanted to since this all happened in the last couple weeks, I just want to say congratulations to all of them.

You're here.

I I I'd also like to mention one p piece about the school district. that is that last week the Wisconsin DPI uh uh report cards came out and uh there there was no there was one media story about Milwaukee area schools but it it did not mention Whiteish Bay and so I needed to bring up the spreadsheet that DPI provides. Um I if I remember correctly the the school district was the highest scoring school district in the state of Wisconsin. And I think there were four uh districts with scores over 90 and BAS was 97. So they're really in a class by themselves. I want to say the high school was uh tied for second. So something to shoot for next year. Um uh any other miscellaneous trusty reports? No. Okay. Then we will move on to petitions and communications. Uh this is an opportunity for anyone in the audience to address the village board on any issue that is not on the current agenda which we would then ask for public comment. Uh is there anyone here who is here for something that's not on the agenda? Going once. Oh, one person. So if you if you could come up to the podium and state your name and address and tell us what you'd like to tell us.

Uh I'm Jennifer West. I was here a couple weeks ago and I just wanted to give you an update on the invitation I had extended to the book sale. Um, thank you Trustee Buckler Buckley for your uh strong support on social media for it. We had a goal of meeting our previous uh record of $8,000 and we netted 9,500. So, thank you very much. And if you are interested, the uh Friends of the White Fish Bay Public Library is on the cover of the Day Living magazine. And there are plenty of details in there if you want to know more about what we do and how we support the library.

It was delivered to my mailbox today. And maybe we could get you to uh get your autograph. Oh, I don't think so, but great. Take a look. Anyone else for petitions and communications? Going once, going twice. All right, I'll close petition communications and move on to general business. We have O 10 11 items on the agenda tonight. But the first is discussion action on ordinance 1919 amending sections 1522 through 26 of the municipal code in relation to tourist rooming houses. It looks like Anna is going to give us a report.

Um, a group of residents spoke uh during public comment at the village board meeting back on July 21st about short-term rentals. As a result of those comments, staff was directed by the village board to draft ordinance 1919 that is before you this evening that addresses the concerns uh that were raised during public comment as well as adheres to uh statutory requirements. Per discover the Northshore, there are 17 active short-term rental properties in White Bay with only five receiving a license from the Northshore Health Department. According to Chief Whitaker, in regard to the 17 active properties, the police department has received four calls this year and no one property has had more. Staff has been in contact with the group of residents and has collaborated with them. Staff tried to include uh what was reasonable into uh the proposed ordinance. The proposed ordinance establishes a comprehensive regulatory framework for the operation of a tourist rooming house within White Bish Bay. The ordinance defines a tourist rooming house and similar establishments, requires annual licensing, specifies operational restrictions, imposes strict property management requirements, and establishes enforcement mechanisms with potential license revocation for violations. The licensing requirements are an annual license process with mandatory application documents including the requirements for the department of revenue sellers permit, the Northshore Health Department permit, proof that residents within 200 ft of the proposed tourist rooming house have been notified, a proof of and proof of insurance. A tourist rooming house uh may only operate during the term of a valid

village of Whitefish Bay tourist rooming house license, which that license shall be for the term of one year or thereof um expiring the next June 30th after initial issuance or renewal. Uh the proposed ordinance limits the operations to what is outlined in Wisconsin state statute. It further restricts in terms of occupancy. Um, guest occupancy is limited to two per bedroom plus two additional occupants. Uh, furthermore, the proposed ordinance tells of enforcement mechanisms. Like I mentioned, violations of the tourist rooming house requirements, licensing requirements, and other zoning chapter requirements are uh to separate daily fines per section 1591. And these fines would apply to both property as well as the property uh management as well as the property owner and those who are there at the time of the violation. Furthermore, the tourist rooming house license is to be revoked if the tourist rooming house has generated three or more calls or police services that have resulted in enforcement action on three separate days within a 365day period or has generated three or more cases from at least three building or health inspections occurring within a one-year period with such calls resulting in enforcement action. Three or more calls for police services resulting in enforcement action includes enforcement action taken against any person associated with the premise whether at or within 200 ft of the premise. Um the tourist rooming house license would be uh application three of $300 which is comparable to the village of Bayside. and staff would reach out to the known

owners and operators and inform them of the proposed uh ordinance and the rules and regulations that are outlined within it to get them licensed um and allow them uh proper due process so that they would be established this year but then also make them aware of the deadline for next year's cycle. So with that, any questions?

I'm curious what an occupant is exactly. Is that someone who is sleeping there the night or just there on premises? Do you do we have an idea like and that may be a chief of police question as I perk him up. Um you know having an having something that's an occupant if there's nine people there and there's only supposed to be eight is it is there a time limit to that occupancy or I mean do we have that defined? Can I piggy back onto that? Yeah. Because when I read it the one the one thing I wondered about too was

could we do anything to define adults versus children? So, if you've got the two per bedroom, but you've got three kids, you might throw three kids in a bedroom. I don't know whether that makes sense or not, but I'm just thinking of a family versus a whole bunch of I think the purpose is to like stop a party, right? Exactly. Is that is that your understanding? That's pretty much. And so, if you had a party with a dozen people and you're only supposed to have eight, that that trips the occupancy trigger. Yes. Okay. That's that's that's a you don't need to you don't need to sweat that answer there. And not if it just happens in you know transiently. I mean for a short period of time because everybody's going to go to the high school football game or something like that. Uh instead it's having a party.

So

and do you know how often we're going to be checking the websites that that tend to um I don't know want to say promote but um and to yeah market allow this sort of thing to happen. Um because we have 17 houses in late fall, but I assume if you know we've had some political conventions in town, we do get larger events during you know summerfest, things like that. I imagine there are more houses during times of need. Uh when there might be greater demand, are we going to be monitoring that? So I my recommendation in the way administratively if you hadn't asked that question I we would have implemented is the same that we do for code compliance which means that when we receive a concern from a neighbor they call the police department or they call our code compliance um folks and that's when we would go and and figure out what's going on and then that would lead us to investigate. The way we got the list initially was from the tourism bureau. Um, but I know that they did some kind of manual work because the problem is if the rooms are booked at certain times, it's harder to view and things like that. Um, so we could certainly try to get that from them every year or two, but I'm not sure that they'd be willing to spend the time on it. Um, so that would be my recommendation is honestly if we're getting complaints then that's when we're going to look into it. I just have a concern that one I know there are fines attached as well, but one of the teeth that are that is in this ordinance is removing the license. And I worry if you have people who aren't getting the license to begin with that, you know,

they're not going to care. Well, we'd be able to then find Well, here this is when I'll let Anna speak. We could find them for operating without a permit. Yes. So, if they don't follow the proper process, then they would acrue daily fines for not having a permit. Yeah, that could be done by citation. Yeah, even on a perdium basis if if somebody's really not playing ball at all. Yeah. Jay, did you have Hold on, please. We'll we'll get to the public comment in a minute. Jay, did you have a No, not yet.

Well, I had a question. I kind of asked previewed it, but the seven days, seven consecutive overnight. So, this essentially eliminates weekend Airbnb uses. And is that what we're Is that what we're wanting to do? That's what I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. I'm I I I have issue with that.

I wonder about that and I don't know. I guess I want to understand where that exactly came from and if that's truly what we want to do. The other thing that I wondered about and I understand like I I don't necessarily want to see entire neighborhoods become you know overwhelmed with Airbnbs by any stretch of the imagination. Is there any mechanism in which we could say we have x number of permits and once those permits are used we we can't do that. Okay. Yes and no. No it'd be different like you know liquor licenses. There's a state statute that that's exactly what I was thinking of how many you're going to have and what how many reserves you've got and things like that but we just don't have that kind of

and then as I'm reading the definitions of all of the potential you know housing one like I am aware of an Airbnb that is literally a room in a house that is rented out that when I looked at all the specific definitions it didn't fall under any of them So I'm wondering also about and I understand the definitions came from state statute but is there are we creating some sort of loophole I guess because there I mean there are a lot of like if you go into Airbnb you know bigger bigger cities y

you see that a lot. Yep. where it's someone is renting a room or half of their duplex or um so it's not not the entire dwelling. So on Airbnb someone has their basement available. You rent their basement that yeah you see a lot of especially in larger cities. Speaking of ordinances, uh Kelsey, I don't know if I should send this to you later. There are a few references to the state ordinances that I think might not be correct. Is that something we would want to handle here or are we Okay. Um, you want me to do it now?

Uh, yes. 15-23 C1. Is that what you're referring to? 50 uh C1 and then also subb sub6 refers to um state statute 66 1014 sub 2 subc and I think it should be sub 2 sub D sub one and which prescribes the residential dwelling right tools and the time frames attached to it. Okay, we'll have as we're taking public comment we'll have look at that. Yeah. Okay. Anything else of like legislature numbers? Uh, I think those are the big two that I saw. Um, okay. Yeah, I think those are the big So, Sam,

this um this defines kind of a set time period 7 days to 30 days. Once you get outside the 30 days, is it a different set of ordinances that govern that? Or say somebody wants to rent for 31 days, are they no longer bound by this? Is that the right way to think about that? or 3 months for instance, not a not a long-term rental, but not a transient by this definition. You kind of fall in the middle at that point. Chris, can you comment on that because that's really a statutory distinction um between a short-term rental and a long-term rental. 31 days, like if somebody wants to rent over 31 days, yeah, if you're outside this time window, 7 to 30, that's a state statute. Okay. So, we'd have to regulate that differently. Okay. Just wanted to make sure

right now do we have anything that regulates that? No. So it would that be illegal for someone to do that right now or it'd be permissible. It'd be permissible and we just under the state but we we can't regulate that in this manner. It has to be a different set of regulations. Correct. We could look at that. We could look at that separately. What we were specifically looking into was basically short-term rentals based on the feedback we received and we looked at that state statute and looked at the court cases and what we were able to regulate within that category. So I believe the answer to your bed and breakfast question is the same is that that's a different distinction. Yeah, that is outlined in

chapter 73 of the administrative code. So we'd have to regulate that separately as well. Okay. Yep. and and I was just asking to understand the time frame out. I want to go back quickly to Trusty Saraban's original question because Attorney Jaggles, you said that we cannot limit the number of licenses that we that we could issue. You can't do it unless the state legislature has granted you that power. The same way we can't regulate the number of driver's licenses that are issued in the village for example.

It's a question of what the village can regulate. Okay. Is there what? Well, do you has has the state legislature do we have any idea if they have allowed other municipalities to limit the number of licenses? And I'm getting I what I'm getting at is I think that is a fantastic idea. Um, and so I'm just I'm just trying to figure out if there is if if we know if there's precedent for that.

I'm not aware of any instance of that. Anna, did you come across anything like that? No. Okay. That I review. Yeah, this topic has been pretty heavily litigated and so we were working we were walking a tight rope. No, I understand. I'm I'm just looking for the the state realtors association has been all over this with their lobbyists and their lawyers. I believe that

I personally, you know, we're tackling this now and I think that's good, but I think this is just the tip of the iceberg. I think we have a lot of people who bought or refinanced houses at remarkably low interest rates um during the pandemic and we're going to see a lot of people who are now moving for one reason or another, but are not going to want to get rid of that other property because it's the cheapest money you can have and this economy and so they're going to find productive things to do with it. And renting it is one of those things. But you know, every home that's an Airbnb is not a home with school age kids. Um, and so we have to kind of decide what we want to be as a village now because it's going to get a lot worse fast.

I I guess my comment to that would be you're right that the the number of rental properties is probably going to go north. Um, my guess is that if you're moving out of your home, you're you're the decision to become a Airbnb host is different than the decision to be a landlord and rent long term. And so that's the difference between the two. Jay, there is a trend of corporations coming in and buying up and becoming Yeah. You know, all the more reason that we are here tonight. Yeah. Yeah. We can't regulate based on right like a legal entity versus

right. Yeah. No, totally. But I'm just saying that's an additional part of this, you know, an additional lens we have to look think about. Anna, do you have any data on how the 7-day minimum compares to peer communities or neighboring municipalities? The I guess you can correct me if I'm wrong, but Bayside has it as well. Yeah, we put it in in Bayside. Um I've put it in in the village of Wales. There are a number of places. The idea is to avoid the the party weekend. Sure. Um somebody's got to rent the entire week. But it also eliminates out of town family renting something nearby. Yes. I mean, so it's kind of a, you know,

I mean, isn't isn't there I mean, we talked to I'm sorry. Well, and what's interesting to me, too, is that when you look at Airbnb right now, everything that I see in White Fish Bay has a minimum of five days. Like, where is that five days coming from? Super. I mean, that's just a choice thing right now. Yes. Super interesting. Yeah, it's a lot of vacation rentals are that way. I just was in Florida last week and I had to pay for minimum five days. Yeah. I I just don't think of this as a, you know,

I love White Fish Bay, but I don't think of it as a vacation destination. But I'm I think I if anyone really wanted, you know, a straightup party house, they wouldn't have any problem paying for 5 days or seven. But at the same time, um I I I agree with Tara. I think that with I think this puts a tighter limit than I'm that I'm comfortable with. I mean, I understand the original context of the of the complaint brought to us, but it, you know, there are, you know, there are plenty of valid reasons to look for something that is one day, two day, three day. Um, you know, I've I've multiple times as I've traveled over the years, you know, done one night you know, at a at an Airbnb, you know, as you know, because I it makes more sense than booking a hotel. Um, you know, and so I I'm a little uncomfortable with the seven days. Chris, can you tell us what was the what was the basis in Bayside? What was there any particular reason they went with seven days?

I I know the answer. I'm pretty sure is it's because it's the most restrictive you can be. Y So you can't restrict you can't require more than it's restricting both the landlord and the tenants because the landlord can't rent for a weekend and then separately rent for the midweek. I'm in favor of seven days. I think there are hotels all across Milwaukee County. Um there's a half dozen hotels within two miles of here. I do not think it's a big burden.

We don't Well, that's No, that's okay. Nope, we don't need we don't need any of that. Thank you very much, though. But, uh, but it just is not a big burden to impose on people. I mean, if if you don't want to sleep on, you know, your family's couch, then, you know, just book a hotel a few mile or a mile or two away. I don't I just don't see it as something that is going to harm families in the same way that having temporary rentals crop up in every neighborhood would. Now, I want to say there are nine hotels in Glendale. Just saying. Uh yeah, no doubt. Uh the number of seven uh definitely puts us in a stance of maximum uh restriction and and trying to um make it financially difficult for these folks to exist and also to drive down demand. And so I'm I'm I'm in favor of seven days too. So,

I'd be more comfortable with five. And if we're I mean I I think I I I don't know. I the I don't see a unless someone can give me a reason other than that's the most restrictive we can be. I don't I don't understand seven. And so this is kind of a moment where um is there anyone else that would rise to that and say I I want to have five and if we can get four people to say we want to change it to five then

possibly but I'd actually like to hear public comment before I because I think that'll have a lot to do with the way I think about this because I am of 100% of two minds on it right now. I I tend to agree. I actually I prefer the regulatory framework in all of this. To me, that's the key here is really tightening that up and putting a framework in the days. I I think five or seven. I I tend to come down more on the side of seven, but um I think just having this more defined is the real win here in my opinion.

Okay. Uh with that, maybe we should go to public comments. Yes. Okay. Uh so at this point um if anybody would like to make a a comment on this particular agenda item uh if you could come to the podium and state your name and address. If there are multiple people um let's just pretend that that other podium is kind of the on deck circle so that you're ready to go. And if you if you we don't have a time limit, but uh you know if you're going on past 34 minutes, I might play some music and play you. Get into the seventh day. Can you can you state your name and Sure. Mary Gimmo 4776 Lin.

Thank you, President Buckley. You're welcome. Um as to the 7-day thing, that's what the statute requires. That's what the law requires is that that's when you get to start regulating. I think that the statute's clear that you can't regulate under 7 days. Maybe I'm wrong, but the attorney for the village would be able to speak on that. And I'm referring to 66 1014 paragraph 2 A ready. Yep. I think the choice and 2D.

Yeah. See, so that would be the choice to go under seven. And we could still do that in the framework of what you're talking about. I don't think so. I've looked at a million ordinances around the state. Yeah.

And everybody regulates it seven days and above. But our group, I'm from the 4700 block of Lark and we have an Airbnb and we described that the last time we were here and all these people that are with me are from that block for the most part. But what we were trying to seek is some stability in our neighborhood. Um we don't like the weekend warriors and we've had a lot of them. The Airbnb opened January 13th and it's rented tonight. It's never stopped being rented at all. And we got these little dribbs and drabs of people and everybody's different, but um there's no continuity and there's no stability at that residence. Um, the thing I was going to speak about before the seven days thing was brought up was just one point. I only have one point to make because I know you don't want to be labor like our property at our location, but what's good for the community. The only thing I can say is I really, really like the ordinance. I'm very much supportive of everything you wrote. I think it was an excellent comprehensive ordinance, but I think it's missing just one thing, which is I want the health department and the village um in like the clerk's office to work together because two neighbors anonymously called in about the property on my block, which is 4785 North Larkin, and we reported to the health. I was one of the people, so I'm not so anonymous, but I don't care. I'm up here talking about it. We reported the conditions at that house that seemed to be unfavorable to health to the health department, which was they hadn't taken out their trash in probably 6 to 8 weeks. We one of the neighbors watched them load all their trash into the back of two pickups and fill them fill the pickups and still put a cart out at the curb because why? Because the property manager at that

address does nothing. like you can't get the guy to respond to anything. We think we don't call him. We don't even know him. We haven't been introduced to him. We don't know anything about him. But the health department knows about it. And so they were going to call the property manager and discuss the issue and also do an inspection because another thing that came up was they took their smoke alarms from inside the home and they put them outside the home one night. So, why would you do that? Cuz you don't have any safety in the home. So, I spoke to Brad at the health department. He's super nice. I'm not complaining about the health department at all. But he contacted the manager of the property and they've never ever connected. There's been no inspection. There's been no reply. There's been nothing. Like, the thing I'm most worried about is we're going to have an ordinance and it's going to be kind of uninforceable. Like, how are we going to enforce it as a village? The police department's going to get called, the fire department's going to get called, health department's going to get called. But if the entity, the homeowner and the village manager aren't going to respond, what's the point? So, I'd like to see some more teeth in that part of it and some like regular compliance or regular suspension of the license. Like, it's all about issuing the license and not renewing the license, but can you suspend the license mid year? Because that would be a great idea. You know, if 3 months in you're renting, renting, renting, and you only get to rent for six months and you don't have a smoke alarm in place, what are you going to do? Because there's I'm sure everyone on the board has heard about the Juno County fire where people died because there was no smoke alarm in the Airbnb. Six people died and I don't want that to happen on LR or any part of Wishburg. Um, so that's for the greater good. But other than that, we're I think as a

I won't speak for the whole block because everybody read the this and read it differently maybe than me. But I I think overall we're pleased with the outcome. Kelsey, do you want to comment on

and I do want to say I I am thankful for the neighborhood's engagement around this topic. They've been very helpful spending sending a lot of information to staff that we used as a model and the development for the ordinance. And you clearly have a lot of very educated people in that neighborhood. And so we as speaking for the taxpayers, we are thankful um for your collaboration because you did save us a lot of money. Um so thank you for that. We did hear your feedback about the health inspections and did include in the revocation piece that three violations that are found to be valid for both PD code compliance and health department would result in revocation. So to get in the house

if he's not there and he's not responding which is his mo y hire to get in the house.

Sure. And so we did speak to the health department on Friday and then emailed back and forth again with them today. So they're regulated by or they have to follow an administrative code and the requirements are just a bit different. Uh and so knowing what we know right now, we're trying we our commitment to you all is that we will be in good communication um and try to work through that. But we don't believe there's anything else we could add to our ordinance that would grant them specific rights to the property. But if if we do figure that piece out, and I understand your frustration, then certainly we're happy to bring back an amendment. One of the things I guess we kind of thought about when we talked about it as a group was like making them be licensed with the Better Business Bureau, making it be a um property manager that you all would approve of, you know, the village would approve of. I don't know that that's I don't know how you're going to regulate that part,

but what we've got right now is like a D minus manager and we'd like to see like an A even someone who's responsive. And the one part on that ordinance that's excellent is when called upon, they have to respond within 12 hours. That was great. So, we're happy about that. I have a question for you, Chris, that is transient food vendors, like food truck vendors, we have them do a background check. Could that be applied in this case or property managers? Think I think it could. But I mean, I think we can take the names of whoever the applicant is and have the department take a look at it.

Would that need to be administrative or something written into the ordinance? I think it just be administrative. Okay. Let me add real quickly though. Um, we're not without uh the ability to figure out what's going on inside that place. Joel knows full well because he and I have done a number of these over the years. We get an inspection warrant which is signed by our municipal judge. So, but this question since they've been nonresponsive to the health department. I mean, that's internal. You guys can talk about that. I love that idea.

Yeah, it the the uh the affidavit is sworn out by either the health department official or Joel as the building inspector. They've got to have some things to be concrete about. Usually, as Joel will tell you, usually it involves at least walking up and looking in the window, right? I mean, uh, we can't just say we we've heard. Yeah. But like what if we have photos? Because we do. Oh, that helps, too. I mean, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Terra. Well, I'm just thinking about enforcement. So, the way we have it written, we've got three health, three police, three. Can we say three in any of these categories? I mean, so like one police, one health, one Yeah, we can. We can say

Okay. And then the other question is if right now our enforcement is you lose your license, if you never even got a license, what are our what are the what can we do if someone is renting their house out without getting a license? That's Yeah, that's where we write citations and that's going to be daily. Yeah. Operating without a license. Operating without a license, we do citations attached to the tax. Do you have what what's the monetary value of those? Whatever you want. Yeah, there's a range. Yeah, they can what? Per per day daily. So, we could do $1,500 a day. 500. Yeah, it's it's a big range.

And can we attach those to a tax bill if they are ignored eventually through the tax intercept program? That's what what the what we try to do. Um Okay. We don't have a contract that says we're doing this and it and therefore we're going to put it on your property tax bill. That has to be more formalized. That that would have to be in the form of the license, for example, having the license because they have to they have to more or less consent. Well, but that's what I'm saying. What if somebody chooses not to? Right. Then they will not be we can't just put it on their property tax bill. The court handle that sign. Yeah. Okay. And there's there's this state intercept program and

okay to answer your previous question it's or for each of those. So we did write that intentionally. So it could be police health or it is or complaint but it doesn't have to be three health three this one or this one or this one once we get to three. Yep. It could be one health one code one PD. Thank you for letting me speak. Yeah. Thank you. I do just as she's leaving want to caution like we we are not going to solve all the problems in one day and with one ordinance and so I just do want to manage expectations around that like we we do have legal restrictions and all sorts of things and we're also going to be learning through this. So I I just want to caution that we're going to be identifying additional things that we probably want to go back and look at again. Exactly.

Yeah. Hi. Name and address. Yeah. Jill Schrader 4790 North Larkin. I wasn't really prepared to speak tonight, but sitting here, I think I'd regret it if I didn't. Uh, I thank you all for your collaboration and for your work, the collective work, and Mary really leading the charge on this ordinance. I'm here specifically to speak to Tara and Jay's comments on the limitation of the time limitation. and you asked to hear public comment around this

and then go back to the oath that all of you took in your rules and what is that and that that oath is my understanding I don't have that documentation in front of me but I did look at it back in July and part of that is to guide and protect the people within the village and to set standards for the village that ensure equality and the future and the standards for which why people move here in the first place

and Why we moved here from California 21 years ago is because we were hoping to have children. We've raised two children within the community to participate in exactly what Mr. Saunders kindly and appreciatively commented on regarding the success of our students. We moved here to be a part of a fabric of a community that cared about each other, that knew each other's rhythms. I know the rhythms of my block. those people across the street from me do not where is the safety regulation overall and I think the standard again I'm very pleased with the ordinance that has been put forth overall but we have transient people who have been in this house across the street we have 19 children under the age of 12 on our block those aren't my kids anymore but I care about those kids and we have people who who don't because they're just here for whatever reason because it's an inexpensive place to rent, especially at this time of year. And so, just with that in mind, as you question the 7 days versus the two days versus the 5 days, please think about the why behind this ordinance overall and why we're asking you overall to create some limitation around this. is for the greater good of the people who live here and to protect the essence of what white fish means to all of us including you.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

Name and address. Hi everyone. I'm Megan Moroski at 4779 North Larkin and I wanted to uh thank you thank you guys the members of the board for your continued dedication for keeping Whitefish Bay the exceptional community it's been. Um, and the work on the tourist roaming house ordinance shows a really understanding that you value stable and peaceful neighborhoods with strong connections among our neighbors. I mean, our whole block is here tonight again, right? This is a obviously an issue we care very deeply about. I was also I was surprised to learn in the staff report that there are already 17 tourist rooming houses in the village and um that's over 20% one in five had generated calls to the police department in in the year which just kind of seems like a lot and then even more concerning is that over 70% are operating without like the minimal health permit right so this is just functioning as businesses with no oversight in residential areas

so this numbers these numbers that you guys responded initially, just underscore how important it is to move forward with this full ordinance. And so when you guys continue with your deliberations, I encourage you to adopt it in its entirety because having just really clear and appropriately strict standards are essential to preserving the character of our community. I mean, uh, you know, we have to ensure our safety. The families who live here deserve the con consistent rules that protect their homes and their family and the value of living in this village. Um the shorter days, the party weekends are incredibly disruptive to the neighborhood, especially with a lot of small children. Most of our children walk to school every day. They don't like we just have random people staying. The more strict that we can have this, the safer everyone is. And it provides clarity needed for effective enforcement. We can get these bad actors out of here. And you know, if we have to live with short-term housing, let's do it in a way that's the least disruptive to everybody around us and so that we can go back to normal without pulling our hair of what's going to happen today or what is the next round going to bring to us. You know, this prevents loopholes. It strengthens trust and safety and it ensures that the ordinance can be applied in a clear and a uniform way. So, I want to thank you guys again um for your commitment to maintaining the quality of life that makes White Fishb such a special place to live. Love you.

Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else like to grab the mic? Okay, here we go.

Hello. Good evening. I'm Bruce Weiss from 4848 North Larkin Street and I want to echo the comments of the other concerned citizens. Um I did not sign up to live next to a hotel or a boarding house. To me um short-term rentals are 6 months or um in a lot of HOAs. That's that's what I've seen. And like they've indicated, this does affect the safety from a lot of perspectives of the children of of of various crime and so forth. And the fabric of the neighborhood is a lot different when we've got transients um next door. So comparing five to seven days, I don't think either is strong enough. But if I had my pick, I would go with a number that's 40% more than five, and that would be seven. Wait, I was told there would be math.

Somebody check the math on that. We want to make

Hi, thanks for taking the time today. Liz Powaskki four street. Um, I have three children under four and I live directly across from the Airbnb. And part of what we've always loved about White Fish Bay and why we moved here from Bay View was the sense of community. Lauren sold us our house. She lives on our street. Um, Jill lives right next door and sees our children in various versions of clothing often as they're young. And I don't love that there are random people across the street that could see that. Um, Nicole saw my kid on a ladder earlier this week and said, "Is there an adult around as I popped out of the bush?" So, we've got each other's back and seeing two to four different cars every week pulling whipping out of that driveway freaks me out. So, I take Thank you for taking the time. Um, this might not be related, but my car was stolen out of my driveway in April. I don't know who did it, but if there was a lot of random people coming across my street, maybe seeing that I'm overwhelmed with a bunch of kids, I feel like I'd be a pretty easy target. So, that has taken down my sense of security and safety in my fishbay, and I hope that you guys can um help ensure that.

Thank you.

Good evening. Uh, my name is Steve Winnuk. I live at 4747 North Larkin Street. I've lived in the neighborhood since uh 2006 and loved every minute of it. Um, I was very disturbed when uh the story came out that this house was a B&B. Uh we were told that there was a family who bought the house uh who had a special needs child and they weren't quite moving in and you know they were going to stick stick around in Boston until such time that their child got these special needs met. Well, that turned out to be a big lie. And the whole time that this owners own this house, it's been all about rental. So Jay, I would ask you that the next time you think about renting a B&B or going to a hotel, think about whether that B&B was next to your house and you've suffered like some of these people have. It's not next to my house. I'm not suffering. But this is this is lifechanging stuff. Nobody moved to White Fish Bay to be invested in a hotel being next door. Nobody ever. This is serious business. I heard about this thing two years ago, uh, not through what happened in our neighborhood, but through a lady friend I know who lived in the south of Milwaukee. And she got so fed up with living in a bad part of Milwaukee, that she chose to move to Two Rivers, Wisconsin, small town, right? By the lake, by the river, walk here, walk there, everything's cool. Well, she was so excited to get out of where she was and was so excited about getting into this house, she failed to do her due diligence and moved right in next door to one of these things. And her life has been a living hell legally, financially, emotionally, culturally, she's in shock. And I think we're underplaying what's going on here. The raw emotion isn't being conveyed by

these nice ladies. Nobody wants this in White Fish Bay and it's your job to help us, not some investor in Boston who rolled in here with a bankroll of money and lied to us about what was going on. So, think about that the next time you do a B&B or a hotel. Zone hotels in White Fish Bay. Stick them someplace on some busy corner, not in our neighborhood. We don't want that. We don't want the safety concerned. We didn't want the traffic. We didn't want the drugs. We didn't want the weed. We didn't want the parters. Nobody's signing up for this in White Fish Bay. So, while you're taking pride in all of our accomplishments, this is a cancer. This is a cancer and it's going to grow. 17 with how many know with no licenses? Shut them down tomorrow. Padlock the doors. This is lifestyle stuff, people. You're here because we wanted this lifestyle and this is a cancer. Stop it now.

Thank you.

Hi, my name is Natalie. Um I'm the daughter of Mary who spoke first. Um and I've grown up here my entire life. Um, I have lived here um throughout um throughout college, law school. I'm 25 now. And I think the reason why I had such a great childhood is I could walk to my friend's house, I could walk to school, I could bike to school. And when it's days like this where it gets dark at 5:00 p.m., a lot of the time I would be walking and biking at dark. And I think I always felt safe. But I think if I was was a kid now, I don't I don't really know how I would feel. And I think looking back on my childhood, my friends and I had such a great time because we knew Whiteish Bay was so safe. Um, which is why I just wanted to echo what everyone has said that coming from someone who has grown up here, I've seen how the neighborhood has changed, especially my block, and I think it's really dangerous for the kids who are growing up on this block now. Thank you.

Thank you. Natalie, I'd like to uh thank you for making me feel incredibly old and your mother will tell you why. Is truly is is there anyone here who would like to speak against the ordinance because you're kind of preaching to the choir. As tough as tough as you can so hard that it's unattractive for people to come here and and furthermore and furthermore, if you need time to work at the state legislature, make it so hard and make it public. Get some other suburbs to join in and it's funny and let's let the people in Madison know.

Okay. I I should say that um at our first meeting when the many of you had shown up um there the direction to staff was maximum uh I'm not going to use the word pain but you know ma maximum deterren and and this is what they came up with and so so far we're we're on that path and a lot of nodding heads. So, but if there's anyone else who'd like to um say any more words that are we haven't heard yet, I'm happy to continue with public comment. Otherwise, we will then go to the board. Um I think Jay and Tara were the only two that had some issues with five versus seven. Are you okay with seven at this point? Good with seven. Okay.

It's not going to it's not going to make me say no. I do have a couple other questions though that I've thought of as as we've gone on. And so whenever you're ready for those, as do I actually. Yeah, go ahead. Terry, you go first. Go ahead. Okay. Um, I can always go first.

Well, it's like I'm not even commenting at this point. Um, uh, I've I've seen here the permits issued by the Wisconsin Department of Revenue. What one of the things that we talked about the f um the first the first time that we discussed this was um the potential for additional revenue s this is an additional revenue source for the village where what would the do we set the cost of these permits? Do are we responsible for collecting? What what is the what's the process? I I'm having a hard time figuring it out based on section B.

So the fees have to only recoup the staff time involved. And so perhaps after in our initial assessment, we just looked at what others were charging. Um but perhaps after a year we determine that so that we could justify those being higher in which case that comes forward with the budget when we do our fee resolution um for the permits. What I believe you might be recalling is the opportunity to potentially tax the properties. We could do um like a lodging.

That's a room tax tax. That's that's a pretty big endeavor. So, what given the timeline um and knowing that we wanted this to be a quick turnaround, our thought was that this could be phase one. Let's see how this is going um and then potentially consider phase two. I my analysis does not show that we're going to make much money with that. Um but we're certainly happy to look at it. It just would have delayed this. I guess a part of I part of my question was a revenue stream, but the other part of it is if we're being as restrictive if we're being as restrictive as possible in other um in other parts of this ordinance, why then aren't we looking at a specific number when it comes to a price for these licenses that could further be a deterrent.

Well, it has it has to reflect our cost as as Chelsea. So that that is that is purely dictated by yeah to reasonably approximate our cost which is why Anna is suggesting the Bayside number which is 300. Yeah. And so that's defensible because it's been used and it hasn't been challenged. Um if we if we go to a room tax, just so everybody understands that money has to be spent on promoting tourism, correct in in the very you know houses that we're trying to discourage. So

how however that I've learned over the years that promoting tourism has a very wide scope. I mean, we we could easily turn that into, you know, promoting our business district. I mean, it's it's I Yeah. You know, it's I I I don't want I don't want that to scare anybody off like we're that we're promoting that we'd have to promote like, you know, come stay at our Airbnbs. No, it would we would have a very wide scope.

Yes. I'm I'm just I I'm just trying to figure out like if we're being really restrictive when it comes to number of days and really restrictive with the number of complaints until we um until we start issuing fees. don't understand why we're um I guess you've kind of answered the question, but why wouldn't we try to be more aggressive when it comes to nipping this in the bud at the very beginning, which is trying to discourage um short-term renters because of the because of the price of the license. I think there's no doubt that we'll need to keep an eye on the state legislature

um someday. Uh, I mean, the the reality is is that I'm I'm going to guess 90% of the state of Wisconsin, the population, the voting public, would love to see massively restrictive uh statutes and and the 10% is winning uh because of the people who are in the legislature, right? And and who's lobbying the hardest. Um maybe that day will change someday and and our village uh once those statutes have been changed would would absolutely jump in and and regulate even further. Tara, did you have some other questions? A couple. Okay.

Um Chris, um section C here, and I just want to make sure I'm understanding this. The total number of days the dwelling may be rented for periods of more than six, but fewer than 30 consecutive days shall be limited to not fewer than 180 days during a 365day period. You mean not more? That's what I was wondering. Well, we'll need to double check that citation because that sounds the opposite of what we're looking for, which happens. That's one reason we go through shall be limited to should be shall be limited to not fewer than 180. To me that ought to be not more no more than 180

in in accordance with the the statute and what Jacob pointed out it should read no instead of not. So no fewer than 180 days. That still is a minimum of 180 days. Yeah. Which I think we want it to the opposite of that. Yes. Do I want to know more then? Well, let sounds like it. For the purposes of this evening, it I I feel like there are a few other little thingies little things and you know, statute numbers and and sites. Um, are you comfortable with moving forward? Yeah. I just want to make sure that's correct. I do have one other question.

Yeah. Yeah. Let me finish the sentence. Make going forward and then having Chris and staff work out the final language. Um, yeah. Would that come in front of us again? Or because Tara's right, I and I glossed over that. We're we're essentially saying then that you have to rent for and if 181 days. If you're giving that instruction that we should go over that and make sure that it expresses the intent of the board, we know what the intent of the board is. Yes. Okay. That's that's what I'm getting at. It doesn't necessarily have to come fix it. You can authorize. I'm just I won't sign it until you can authorize him to review it in his discretion. Double checking. Thank you.

And then my my other question had to do with um notification. So, do we have a plan for notifying anybody who we are aware of is renting their property and letting them know? And and then my other question is how quickly does this go into effect? Yeah. So, we actually talked about this today. So, we're going to um Ann Oh, Anna. Oh, you keep talking. So, we're going to send a letter actually Anna's implemented this in the village of PWA. So, that's kind of perfect. Thanks.

Um and so we're going to send a letter to all of the known operating entities and we'll send actually a separate letter to anyone operating without a health department permit to also let them know that we're aware and they also don't have the health department permit. Uh we were we're thinking we're going to need at least until the end of the year, possibly a couple months to make sure we can get the information to them. They have time to complete the permit process. Uh and then we'll really start enforcing because we're going to have to send letters. We don't have contact information to like be able to call or email directly. So while we're doing that, are we also at least for this first time around going on a VBO and Airbnb and just pulling stuff off of there, too? Yeah, we'll do the best we can. I know it's not going to be perfect.

Yeah. And on an ongoing basis, I I'm not asking that. I'm saying for this first time around that cast as wide in that as we can. Yep. Because then the word will get out. I mean, yeah. And we honestly could also put in the newsletter or something too to say we have this new ordinance and if you're aware of anyone operating, we can take information that way as well. My guess is that the people who are operating this may or may not be getting our newsletter. So, Well, but the neighbor may exactly like in this example. Yep. Okay. Any other questions?

I have a question regarding the fines because we it references the violation and then the fines. It says C-section 15.91 and that's not a part of our packet. Do we have is that is that a part of the discussion tonight what the fines are or is that come later and we're just implementing the ordinance today. Typically, it'll just be on the the schedule that you adopt that is then reviewed annually by the board. Okay. So

because to me it seems like this this is clearly a passionate item and I guarantee you this has been going on for more than one night. I mean obviously so like if it seems to me like it should be like a graduating scale of some sort where it rises to this level. You know you should be able to hit the maximum and you can as much pressure on them so you don't continue have to live by that. There is discretion in drafting up citations um which Anna had expressed. So is it 50 to,500? Yeah. 20 25 to 1,5. So maybe you start what I mean what the suggestions maybe this becomes like first fine is X, second sign is Y and third fine is like the max or to

So Anna, can you speak to that um village code citation and why you referenced that? So it's that that's referencing the village code and so that's the process that we utilize in other areas. Do we have we have that identified in there what the number is in 15.91. There's basically that flexibility within that range. It's fresh within the range. Yes. So what you're asking is could we say the this is the specific buying amount for the first violation. Sure. Okay. We didn't look into that. We hadn't seen others do it. I don't know that word. I mean, but that provides direction to whoever's writing. It's clearly not one, you know, someone to get out for the first time and it's in one issue. This is obviously going on

time and time and time again. And that's when you the frustration level grows to what we're seeing tonight. Do we also have flexibility for finding people who operate without a license? Cuz I would recommend making that as high as possible in the in the event that we find somebody without a license. That's another area to apply significant pressure if to to where we're legally allowed to. Sure. Because this is an area like honestly we haven't looked specifically at those dollar amounts and so why don't we bring that back as a separate resolution. We're not on the spot. I I just want to research that more because it's not

that's not in alignment with how we've implemented some other areas that reference the same section of the code. So I just want some time to process it. But I understand the idea and I think we could get something on the books before we would be implementing. I agree with Brian and Sam and I would also like to get the wheels in motion for charging a tax. Okay. So look into a room tax. that that might be like a memo that you create on the difficulties and challenges of of doing but we could do this and then we could explore that as well. Sure. You could

it's not prevent us five days down the road or five years down the road. We can do it anytime. Yeah, let's let's let us implement this. I mean, I'll be honest, this is going to be a pretty big administrative undertaking. Um Sure. I mean, like just it's just something to think about for the future. Um, I mean the village always is looking for money, so might as well do this. Yeah, I think we just have to look at cost of recovery, right? The cost to implement versus what will actually make. For the record, we're looking for some money, but this is quality of life. I mean, so at some point it's like who cares about who cares about $300 fee to they get the permit? It's that's not going to change their life. Who cares, you know?

Scared that that's why this was written with maximum deterrence. So, uh, I have we exhausted the board discussion. In that case, I'd entertain a motion. I'm Stephanie Miller, 4756. Um, do you have something new to add? New Hall. Yeah. I just want to add two pieces of information as an Airbnb owner in the city of Milwaukee.

Okay. Um, we, my husband and I have a large house, uh, downtown and because it's got five bedrooms, it lends itself to big parties. We are aware of that. Our neighbors are tenants. They're we're all good. Um, one thing in looking at your, um, ordinance here, uh, section B number eight, proof of valid property and liability insurance. Not sure if you guys are aware, but a long-term rental h just as an investor getting insurance for a property pays one fee for their premiums. Short-term rentals is almost twice that amount. So, just proving liability, I mean, I would I would say maybe proof of short-term rental insurance. And then the other thing, um, Trustee Sarban made a comment about what defines occupant. We had to seriously step back because we had guest space for 12 people, two per room plus two additional people. We do not differentiate between children and adults because children are 17 year olds.

Yeah. And it turned into chaos. We had a group um from Marquette University um a reunion and these are 40-year-old guys now and our house because it was downtown 12 guys stayed there but it turned into the party house and there were 40 people in that house and they trashed our house. So occupant is I would say how many people are in the house at one time. That's how we kind of go about it at this point. But I just thought those couple extra points may or may not be beneficial. Yeah, I'm thinking five-year-olds. So, thank you for that perspective. Yeah, five-year-olds can trash a house.

Well, in a totally different way about insurance. I appreciate that. No, but I will um Well, but it's but it's a specific kind of insurance. It's more Okay.

So, just to to summarize the changes in the feedback that I've heard. So, we have two state statute references that we are aware of that will be updated. Um, we believed it was supposed to be no to not, but we will look into that more. Um, change the insurance requirement to specifically state short-term rental insurance. Um, and then separately, we will look into the legality or how we would set specific fine amounts and that would be something separate we'd bring back. Excellent. Okay. Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. I I didn't I didn't keep notes on all the notes that we needed. Uh, anybody like to make motion number one?

I'd move that the village board adopt ordinance number 1919 amending section 15-22 through 15-26 of the municipal code in relation to tourist rooming houses uh with amendments as discussed. Thank you. Do I hear a second? Second. Thank you, Sam. Any further discussion?

Yes, President Buckley. I would like to um really quick um uh thank there was part of this got started because of a group of a group of neighbors um contacted me and then it got and I believe contacted uh Kelsey and that's how this ball kind of got started and I really appreciate that approach to this um I thought you know from the very beginning uh the group that that met with me the first time has been very uh very professional and very um uh understanding of the way things work and I think that this is a fantastic uh example of neighbors impacting policy. Uh, and I really appreciate those who um were were were very um were very professional throughout this process. So, I just wanted to quickly add that onto this.

Very much agree. All right. Uh, I think we have a motion and a second. All those in favor say I. I. Anna, did I hear you in? Yep. Okay. Uh, any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you. That's it for uh stick around for the budget meeting. So yeah, we've got a lot of really interesting stuff coming. We've we're spending all of your tax money in the next like 20 minutes. Aren't you going to stick around for the budget? Huh? Storm water utilities. Really interesting. Um your property taxes.

Virtual meeting. Zoom meetings. Aren't you going to be Anybody have an opinion on that? Employee handbook stuff is always fun. Come on. Nobody. No takers. All right. Fine. What? All right. All right. Okay. Fine. If you guys We're not entertaining enough here. Uh All right. So, we're going to move on to number two, discussion action on resolution 3190 to extend the tax levy uh for the year 2025. That's interesting. And to adopt the 2026 budget for the following funds, yada yada yada. Kelsey and maybe Jamie. Extend the tax levy for 2025. That's an interesting phrase. We're extending the tax levy. That's the lingo.

We already have one. So, we have and now we need to extend it. Okay. If you say so. Yeah. Um, so this is going to be short and sweet. Kind of just summarizing our tax levy increased 3.1%.

Um, uh, the water utilities are increasing 3%. The public hearing notice was published in the newspaper October 29th. So this is technically fulfilling the public hearing requirement. Um the detailed budget workshop was held on November 3rd and then changes from that budget were um are summarized on the second page of the memo. Uh so we decreased attorney fees $20,000 and put 10,000 to DPW contract support and 10,000 to the health department. Uh the fund44 cost came down by almost $9,000 based on estimates we received from Bayside for computers and switches.

Excellent. And then um we added the building inspector position for the util or for the general fund portion and then also moved some of Joel's and Vivian's wages to utilities because we were very conscious of the percentage we had for the building inspector. But Joel and Vivian definitely do work that impacts the utilities. So we moved some of their wages and that got us to the 3.11% change. just because you me mentioned it uh the health department contribution. We did get a nice note from Becky Rland um saying a sincere thank you for supporting the work of the Northshore Health Department. We're grateful and happy to serve the community of Wish Bay. Though if we pass it tonight, once we pass it, I will then accept her thank yous. Um,

we do need to open the public hearing even though I recognize Oh, yes. So, so in that case, let's open the public hearing for the uh 2026 budget and suggest that anyone who would like to speak on the budget option. We've got one one member of the public who's shaking their head, not interested in in in the public uh hearing. So I will then close the public uh hearing of of the budget and now we can discuss the budget some more. Um

we spent 3 four hours on this two weeks ago. Uh it appears that the um changes have been reflected in the table that's in your packet on page 97. Um, I think it's all reflective of what we spoke of. Does anyone have And then there's the impact to the average house of $76. That's good to see. Um, do does any board member have any comments, concerns for Jamie? Anna, just good job. I mean, this was

Thank you. this year had a lot of heavy lifts and uh there was no shortage of other things to occupy your time while we asked you to put forward a a difficult budget and you guys just knocked it out of the park. When something I mentioned in passing after the last meeting was how appreciative I was that we and I shouldn't say we that the staff incrementally brought in front of us things that they knew were going to impact this budget. And so a lot of the work that normally would have gone on two weeks ago and this week was done months ago. Like it was already, you know, it was already talked about. It was already decided upon. And I really appreciate that that um that approach. And I mean I some of it was in some of it was out of necessity. Some of it was um you know some of it I'm sure was intentional but I I really appreciate it and um Kelsey and Jamie and Anna and everyone everyone else who participated in this it was um this was as smooth of a process as I've been a part of in my time on the board. And a lot of that had to do with the approach that I think that that was taken throughout the year. I I want to add uh I think one of the reasons why it went more smoothly is because of our CIP and a person you left out in the thank yous was Matt Collins who slaved away on our on our CIP. Um because that I mean that that is a big chunk of every budgeting cycle is to figure out what we're doing this year and in in the future. Um, not to mention, oh, I've forgotten the name of the consultant, uh, Aers, who came in and helped us with a financial management plan. Um, so that

if we go through it quickly tonight, it's because we've done a lot of homework in the last four or five months. Any other questions? Just ditto. Ditto. Okay.

Thank you all for everything. And so I we have agenda items about resolution 3190 91 and 92. Does anyone need to is there going to be any presentation about the water utility, storm utility or sidewalk, streets and alleys, the assessment, special charges, any of that or and any questions from the board on the the next three budgetary um agenda items. In that case, if there are none, no public comment. Uh, I would entertain motions 2, three, and four. Anybody like to read those off?

I move the village board adopt resolution number 3190 to extend the tax league for the year 2025 and to adopt the 2026 budget for the general library, debt service, capital, special assessment, borrowed money, TID number one, TID number two, and TID number three funds. Thank you. Do I hear a second? Second. Thank you, Sam. I think uh any further discussion hearing none. All those in favor say I. I. Uh any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you. Number three. I move the village board adopt resolution number 3191 to adopt the 2026 budget for the water, storm, and storm water utility funds. Thank you. Do I hear a second? Second.

Thank you, Tara. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor say I. I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you. Number four. I move the village board adopt resolution number 3192 authorizing extension of assessments, special charges, and delinquencies on the 2025 tax role for streets, sidewalks, alleys, and sewer improvement assessments, business improvement district assessments, delinquent water, sewer, storm water user charges, and miscellaneous delinquent charges. Thank you. Do I hear a second?

Second. Um, any further discussion? I do have a This is Are these the fee schedules? The fee schedule was under the original Oh, number two. Mhm. Well, I'm just going to I'm just going to make a comment about the fee schedules that we just passed an ordinance that should have a fee schedule line item for um short-term rentals. It does. And it does. Okay, never mind. All right. So, that I'm done with discussion. We have a motion. I I like how Well, that's that was not in your change memo, though.

Either you snuck that in months ago or you snuck it in this time, but that's okay. Well, can does the fee structure does that include a graduate scale like we discussed tonight or is that that's for permit fee? Just permit fee. So, what you were talking about is fine. Yes. Correct. Yep. Yeah. Got it. Whoever's writing the ticket on the enforcement end has the ability to choose within that range. That's how that is. But can we currently We can we can give them the range. We're now off the reservation. I'm sorry. I was just I'm just saying what he wants now. All right. So, we have a motion and a second for number four. Uh all those in favor say I. I.

Any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you. We are now on to uh number five, discussion action on ordinance 1920 amending section 130 of the municipal code concerning virtual meetings and remote attendance. Kelsey. Um so a question just came up from a committee member about asking if they could participate remotely and in looking at this um more closely we realized that it doesn't align well with current practice. And so the recommendation is to provide flexibility. Um so essentially the chair for each committee, commission and board can determine if they want to be able to um allow a virtual option.

Yeah. Um Kelsey and I discussed this after a few other discussions with um members of committees and she was going to bring it for discussion and I'm like let's just make it up to the chair. They can decide which is basically what's been happening recently anyhow. So, um I I this language makes sense and aligns better with what we've been doing for the last 3 years post. Any further questions? I'm going to point to this or is does this address public comments because we we've had some discussions. What is that a separate issue or separate issue? It

it's a separate issue. um what was determined before and and as the chair of a bunch of committees um what I would be a proponent of is is to keep the the public comment to those who appear physically. Um the part of the reason is just the technology issue of having someone run the show and run and it's one thing to have a village board meeting where we've got staff members here but when you have a public works committee meeting or a plan commission meeting or uh what else we u arc well no we don't we don't have arc on TV but anyways you you need staff to like run and that's been part of it where like look if you if you want to make your your comment known either a email it or b show up in public in public.

They can email it. Yeah,

I I do worry with uh virtual public comments, too. You know, at least if people are showing up to make comment, they probably live close enough where they can drive here. I mean, very likely they do live here, but it's different seeing someone face to face and be like, "Oh, I recognize that person. I know that person." If we just allow public comment virtually, most people don't turn their cameras on. It's just a name. There's very little to stop someone name unverified name. Very little to stop someone from another municipality who may might have an interest in like environmental concerns or taxation or whatever whatever they you know that sticktick is uh from appearing on that meeting and commenting under false pretense.

Have have we considered adding a written statement option on there? So I think of like if you use the Microsoft Teams for instance, you can put a comment in. So if somebody wanted a comment to be read chat in the chat again I I would be against that just that takes that takes more staff members to be saying oh I'm looking at the chat and here's seven comments but this one I need to read into the record like you know if you want to make a comment email it and or be here physically. I mean they can e they can email it just as easily as they can chat. Yeah. Really? Yeah. I was just curious. Meetings run that way sometimes. It's fine. It's not

Everybody good with um that item? And in which case um I would entertain motion number five. I'll keep going. I move that I move the village board approve ordinance number 1920 amending section 1-130 of the municipal code as presented. Thank you. Do I hear a second? Second. Thank you, Jacob. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries. You moving on to

um discussion action on the employee handbook addendum and amendments regarding temporary health insurance incentives for 26 and 27. Kelsey Jamie. So all of the remainder items are related to the 2026 budget which was talked about in detail um in the previous village board meeting. So I'm going to move through those quickly just because they have been discussed in detail. So these employee handbook um changes just relate to the transition to the state health insurance plan. Um, one item that has changed in the last couple weeks is we originally thought in consultation with our personnel, our labor attorney, that we needed to utilize the FSA, but he found a creative way to utilize a specific type of wellness program that actually allows us to um pay for the employee portion of the statement that way. Um, so that is our recommendation to utilize that instead. Uh, and then we've also included the handbook edit to remove co-pays, um, which was part of the presentation during the budget discussion. I'm happy to answer any questions because I know we've talked about it a lot.

I think the only question is, um, how are employees reacting to that change? And very, very good. Got a lot of nods.

Yeah, it's been a noticeable change. I mean people I think it it was a very outward gesture like you are very um generous to staff but this was this was a very clear thing that action that was taken by the board to show that you're listening to them that you're willing to spend money in some areas that they care a lot about. And so I know there's a high level of appreciation and it's been noticed. So thank you. I I I'll never miss an opportunity to belabor the point that um back in 2010, I believe, when Act 10 was passed and the first employee handbook was created, um the village board discussed uh a variety of different things. And and one of the values that came out of that village board meeting 15 years ago was just that uh we want to be good employers. and and to date I haven't met a single uh board of trustee member who disagrees with that and we want to be good employers. Uh, with that, if there are any questions for Kelsey on number six, I would entertain that motion. And come on, Jay's getting tired.

I talk so much. Approve amen uh addendum four and the attached amendment to the employee handbook as presented. Thank you. Do I hear a second? Second. Thank you, Brian. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you. On to numbers. Oh man, I should really have this printed out. On to uh discussion action on the information technology services agreement with the village of Bayside.

Same thing. Um this is the discussed transition away from our current um contract provider to a partnership with the village of Bayside for IT services discussed as part of the 2026 budget. Um the contract is written for 5 years. Um the reason being is that if we we're going to apply for the innovation funds and if we can receive them then we want it to be for 5 years to be able to get the maximum amount of money. Um but there is an out clause after three if we're really not happy with the services and I can't remember that contract takes in effect January January.

We've already started though a lot of conversations and prep work for that transition. Do we have a relation a continuing relationship with Armstrong Group that will help us assist in any conversion issues? I mean, not we're we're starting that process now, but that that contract does that end December 31st? And what if we need another month is my question.

Yeah. So, we've been discussing that. Um, right now we're actually having to pay hourly for all the transition because our contract with him is break fix whereas our contract with Bayside is a full contract and so all the meetings he's doing everything we're paying hourly and so that partnership would continue but the goal is for that to be very limited after January first. I mean it should be as limited as it needs to be but not excessively because he you know the Armstrong group has a lot of specific knowledge and if we need you know months more of his services got you got to do um the only comment I had and I I think I made it before and I'll just refresh it and that is simply the concept of moving all of the servers that we have to Bayside um just to have a serious discussion about whether that's necessary or not. I know like for example, I know the police department in particular uses video footage that's served, you know, in the closet and moving that 5 miles away, you know, has a detriment of effect on response time, but also bandwidth. So,

just have a serious conversation about that. The nice thing is we have five years on that because we just bought a server. So, we definitely aren't getting rid of our servers. It's more just can we do this long term and starting to That's Yep. Great. Long on ramp. All right. Any further questions on the information services agreement? Uh number seven would be the motion. I move that the village board approve the service agreement with the village of Bayside for information technology services. Thank you. Do I hear a second? Second.

I'll give that to Sam, I think. Um I I I do want to also interject the com concept that the relationship with Bayside. Um this started with Paul Baining many years ago. So it is fun to see the the full arc of uh probably three years of of discussions to get to this point and finally have this agreement. Who I don't recognize his name. H that quitter. Quitter Paul Bainy. Don't say that. I talked to him this weekend. He helps me out. Yes, we got a razin. All right, number um Oh, wait. We have a motion and a second. All those in favor say I. I.

Any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you. Moving on to discussion action on a contract with associated appraisal consultants for maintenance and reval assessment services.

So, this is this is the same discussed um in detail during the 2026 budget. We did a full RFP process, received two responses. um they both participated in interviews with which trustee Saraban um participated in as well as staff and the recommendation out of that was to go with associated appraisal um for our assessment services. There's two contracts in the packet. Um one is for maintenance which is just that like routine year and then there's the full reval which is 2027. Just a clarification, is the reval going to happen in 26 to be on the 27 assessment or is it happening in 27 to be on the 28 assessment?

That's correct. The second it's happening in 28. So it'll happen during 27 to then inform the December 31st valuation. Yes. So it's the t I always think it's easiest to say the tax bills that go out in December of 2027. That's an easy way to phrase it. Yeah. Okay. Thanks. Does this lock us into having the exterior reval done in 2027? It locks us into it.

Yep. The reason being is that this contract provider was comfortable going one year without doing the full rebell but was not was not comfortable without he need he has concerns about the data that'll be taking over and wants to make sure he's doing the exterior rebal as part of the process. So that was a requirement in the transition. Interesting. Which he was very upfront about. Yeah. I think the department of revenue wants to see that anyway.

Yep. Right. I Yeah. Um will our assessment ratio I mean I would have thought it would be dependent on the assessment ratio because if if the real estate market flatlines and we're at 95 there may not be a reason in 2027 to do a reval. No the I think I think the exterior it was not so much about the numbers. It was about making sure that what we have is accurate. And there's a question as to what we have. Fair enough. Being accurate, correct? Yep. Okay. Any other questions about this? Hearing none, I move on to motion number eight.

I move that the village board approve the contract with Associated Appraisal Consultants for Maintenance and Revaluation Assessment Services. Thank you. Do I hear a second? Second. Thank you, Jay. Uh, any further discussion? I'm just going to say I really appreciate all the work that Anna did on um finding as many uh companies that would respond to this RFP and I know this was extra work over and above just issuing one. Um so I appreciate your efforts. Uh all those in favor say I. I. I.

Any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you. Moving on to number nine, discussion action on a contract with BSNA software for cloud-based financial and building services. This is our finance software and then we're also proposing to move our accessbased permit software to this company as well. We're currently on premise so meaning we host on our servers uh in the future of this software is to be cloud-based um and it just it just makes sense at this point um to make that transition. There will be also greater functionality for the public as well which we're excited about.

Right. I had a question about maybe it was um payroll. So we do our own payroll processing and so this we'll just be shifting this to the cloud. Have we ever had discussions about outsourcing payroll that we have had to fill that we discussed as a possibility but it's kind of crucial to have that extra office person to be okay yeah we're solely in staffed in office um it's difficult but we did we did have a good conversation about it

I've I I know payroll is tough and and all the you know HR requirements that exist for taxation and with holding and all that is super complicated and so it's not just doing something internally, it's also getting the expertise of an external firm. But you guys can figure that out. Um, all right. Any other questions about the I just have one quick question. Yeah.

Will this um Joel, will this make it um will people be able to eventually search past permits on properties? um that probably will not be part of this. Right now our our property records are on the server. We don't have those available to the public to search it that way. Uh but we provide it to them for free. So if anyone is interested in it, we we've we've discussed that. Yeah.

Looking both ways. I mean, we've heard from a lot of residents that they don't want their information accessed by anyone at any point. And so, I know communities have done things, I don't want to say to get in the way, but to make someone take an extra step. And I feel like while anyone could still get anything because it's a public record, at least if there's an open records request, we have who's asking for it, why they're asking for it. If a resident comes in looking for their own address, like I said, we can we can have that ready for them in 10 minutes. It's not or probably even 2 minutes. It doesn't take a lot, but we do not have Yeah. all those cuz cuz a permit has email addresses, phone numbers, you know, a lot of data that I don't know that you just want to have anyone to access it just like that. But

so you wouldn't be able to like if you pull a permit through this system, you wouldn't be able to then go back and make sure it got closed out. I can't answer that 100%. because because potentially I I when I talk to the BSNA guy, I'll ask those questions. What kind of access will the public have to this? Because that would be a great feature. You couldn't again limit it to just your address. Anyone could look at your house then and see it. And I don't know that that's a bad thing. It's just I don't know the answer to that question. The records that we currently have though aren't accessible. Yeah. And I wouldn't I would not at all propose that we import those over. I'm just wondering if like starting today. I I guess I'll just say maybe. Maybe.

Yeah. Yeah. Cuz we do get a lot of calls. We do get a lot of calls from people asking, "Hey, did this person pull a permit for my project?" So, yeah, it would be it's Yeah. Some don't care. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Thanks.

Y just a last comment. I support um you know moving to the cloud for a whole bunch of reasons but also I'm pleased to see um expand functionality and this is a a good moment to remind staff that um another principle of the village board is always to make sure that staff have the tools that they need that they can always be efficient and if they find other tools out there and you know here we're talking about building permits if there's a building permit software out there that would make your life more efficient and and service our uh residents better, then research it and bring it to us. We'd we'd love to, you know, provide every tool imaginable for you to do your jobs u well and quickly

except Snap-on tools, Matt. Except for Snap-on tools. Um, I like and and someday I'm going to be lecturing about AI and how we need to have more of that in our municipal services. All right. Are there any more questions about the BSNA contract? Hearing none, I'd entertain motion number nine. I move that the village board approve the contract with BSNA Software LLC. Thank you. Do I hear a second? Second.

Uh, any further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries. All right, that concludes our main event today. Now we need to move into close session. Could someone make the motion number 10? I move that the village board convene into close session pursuant to Wisconsin state statute 19.851E A51E deliberating and negotiating the purchase of public property investing in public funds conducting other specified business whether competitive and/or bargaining reasons require closed sessions specifically regarding negotiation of a developer purchase agreement with Sundex food market and a intergovernmental agreement with the Whiteish Bay School District. Thank you. Do I hear a second? Second. Uh Anna.

All right. Uh any further discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor say I. I. I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries. We are now in close. All right, it is 9:00 and we have come back from close session and all we need to do now is move to adjurnn. To adjurnn second and we have a second. All those in favor say I. I. I. I. Any opposed? Um motion carries. Happy Thanksgiving to everybody. Happy Thanksgiving. Thanks allive meeting.