Public Works Committee - Regular Meeting

Thank you. Uh it being 4 o'clock, I'd like to call to order the Monday, April 14th, public works committee meeting. Um first item on the agenda is the review and approval of the minutes from March 10th. Any questions, concerns, announcements? Move to approve. Second. Okay. All in favor? I. I. All right. Second thing on the agenda is the discussion recommendation to amend the official traffic map for the intersection of Wilshshire and Framer. Take it away. All right, Collins. Yes. Um, so this is a long time coming, but we want to bring this back to the public works committee based on uh a previous village board meeting uh where residents came and and expressed some concerns over uh and it is an odd configuration of a road where it's basically comes to an intersection at a 40° angle on the corner of Wilshshire Road and Kramer Street. So listening to our residents, uh we worked internally with village staff to start the collection of data uh in order to determine the feasibility of any recommendations to reconfiguration or uh signage improvements along that uncontrolled intersection. So from that standpoint, uh we worked with the police department and public works and we put out a data collector that you can see within the attached uh memo and we did both Willilshshire Road as well as Kramer Street uh from January 6th to January uh 23rd of 2025. So with that uh you can see in the report as far as average daily volume fairly low for both streets as we would expect uh with those more uh light residential streets. So after we collected that data, uh village staff also wanted to review data on all 21. We

have 21 uncontrolled intersections and found no accidents reported over the last 10 years on any of those uncontrolled intersections with the exception of one accident on Wilshshire Road and Kramer Street. And that would be me for the record. Yes. I was going to point that out. I didn't know that. Oh yes. with a car full of kids. It was great. Oh, you missed that. So, we felt uh as far as internal village staff goes, since that was the only intersection, we felt that the remainder of the uncontrolled intersections did not really warrant any further investigation at this time, but we knew that that was a topic uh that was brought up by uh trustees and village board members in the past. So, we wanted to make sure we communicated outward that we did our due diligence with those 21 uncontrolled intersections. So, moving on, um, as far as the memo goes and our findings, um, what we found is really what this was is more of the triangular point that can create significant sighteline difficulties from motors traveling concurrently northbound on Wilshshire and Kramer Street. So from there, uh, we started to evaluate what that means as far as recommendations. And I felt prudent because this was um just a very bizarre intersection with that accident and sighteline concerns that we did uh consult with Tatty for a second opinion um because we did have that recommendation of doing something based on those sight lines. But we wanted to make sure it was the safest from a pedestrian standpoint because it has an elongated crosswalk uh in existence and we wanted to make sure that we did not put a crosswalk behind a stop bar or anything else. So we we kind of brainstormed based on best practice as well as if it's truly warranted based

on the the data that we collected. So Taddyy went through their own uh exercise based on the manual for uniform traffic control devices or MUTCD to see if this would actually be warranted. And long story short, they came back with the same recommen recommendation uh and conclusions as village staff. and they did a nice enough job with uh graphics of what that would look like with their recommendations for uh some improvements to that intersection where a stop sign is recommended with some road markings on Wilshshire Road and Kramer Street would be the through street. So with that, um, we're going to we would recommend to require Wilshshire Road vehicles to stop before turning onto Kramer Street, and it help alleviate those sighteline issues for northwest uh bound uh Wilshshire Road vehicles approaching that intersection. So, in addition to the stop sign, we would also do road markings in there and orange warning flags and reflective uh post strip just to notify traffic of this new configuration. Um, so with that would also be painted center lines, painted um hash area uh on the center lines as well on uh Willshshire, I'm sorry, on Kramer Street and Wilshshire Road. and then also the high visibility crosswalk as shown on those graphics. So with that, those are our recommendations. I did um send out resident notification letters to approximately 30 residents within that uh geographic vicinity. So we did I did include one email I received since that time that's included in the packet. But other than that, we are looking for that recommendation to make those uh roadway improvements. And this would go to village board for final approval if it's recommended this afternoon.

And just to be clear, none of the warrants were necessarily met. This was more along the lines of um to be extra careful or kind of an extra layer of safety. The only warrant was the sight lines that came back to. It wasn't from the vehicle traffic. It was not based on accident reports or any other data collected. It's more about that 40° angle where it really comes to that um sighteline issue for any traffic that's happen to both be in that north bow in motion. The the way I read the warrants and how none of them were were applied was that the title of their memo said all way stop warrants. And so, you know, I I don't I don't like I like having, you know, subjective uh items that you can check a box for. This checked none of the boxes, but I I believe that that was for a three-way stop, I suppose. Um and so that's what I just want to make it clear that yes, none of the warrants were checked, but but for that was for an allway stop, allway stopping, right? So, it's it's not like we're um ignoring the advice, right? Because they go on and they say, "Well, based on the skew of the intersection site line issue." Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Sorry. I mean, I will say I noticed as I keep getting older, I'll have a bad night of sleep. All of a sudden, turning my head more than a right angle is typical. And so this particular sighteline here, I can see being on wheelchair and like, you know, trying to crank your neck to see what's going on. And I imagine some people just don't. Um, and so I do like the idea of curving it into a right angle, more of a te-top. My question is simply, is paint going to be enough or are people going to get used to that and

then just start driving right over the paint and treating it like it always was versus some concrete just bumping out the curb and extending them in or something? It's interesting that you say that because when we first did the when we first put the new paint on the end of where Oakland and Lake Drive come together, I thought that exact same thing. And what I've seen is that I mean driver behavior does appear to follow. I agree. Does agree. Yep. Yeah. I was actually fairly shocked because I thought the same thing. Oh, sorry. I was going to just say I certainly think you could start that way. I think having lived in this neighborhood now 16 years and seen obviously been the one that had the wreck, you know, and some of this is going to depend on what is built on that one corner, too. And there w there's was a bush there that I still think and there's like a little blind spot where for just a second even if you stop and turn your head which I always would do when I was turning left and when I had the accident that's what I was doing it's still sometimes even if you're looking there there's like a second when if a car is coming where they're right in the right spot and you know I mean if a lot of things have to come together but it it's a weird intersection not to have anything at All. So, does anyone have any objection to what we see have in front of us? No, I think it looks good with the paint. Uh, and I hear what you're saying. I would just like us to maybe evaluate down the road and then go back out there and if paint's not doing the trick, then we talk about making it uh concrete or something else, something more physical. Well, I can watch for you. Perfect. One one question I do have uh is about consistency and that is there's a lot of paint here that we don't normally use on residential streets. Um starting with I think the most glaring example and maybe maybe this is a suggestion and not actually what's going to happen but on page nine there's

a double yellow line going down. What is that? Kramer. Kramer. Um that seems unusual. Like I I can't think of any other residential street with a double yellow. I can't either. And it's more about the configuration trying to keep traffic flow um from going deviating from that center line. So if the you're right that this goes above and beyond what you typically see on a local road within the village. Um this is just a recommendation based on Tatty. Will the yellow center line make a difference in my opinion? Probably not. Will that add additional maintenance? Yeah, but not much. So, yeah, I'm not I'm not against it. It's more It makes me wonder what's going to happen to the next intersection where somebody says we should have a double yellow line, for example, all along Henry Clay. I've always thought probably needs a double yellow because it's such a narrow um street with parking on both sides and people coming. It's it's difficult to know exactly where the center of Henry Clay is, but that that's a a different class of road. Um, so I so in this case, I'm I'm thinking how there are probably a bunch of other places that folks would say, I want that double yellow. I would say it's just paint. So, yeah, but this is a pretty unique I mean, what are there five of these intersections? I mean, the southside has a bunch of screwy intersections. Yeah, but there weren't many of them. Yeah, I'm just interested in consistency, but go ahead. I had the same thought and I actually asked Matt about it as well, just because it's not at all in keeping with the what's typical, I guess. Um, but I thought his response was good in that this intersection is very unique. Um, but I I think you were absolutely right that when people see things, then you know, you start to apply them to other locations. Do we have the staff hour to maintain staff time to maintain this? in

a lot of locations, you know, that could get complicated. I wonder if an easy amendment to the design is just to remove basic only do the paint where you're coming up on that kind of turn. Sure. Yeah. And not on Kramer would be the alternative. And I think probably easier to say this is very a very unique situation or label it a pilot and just say, you know, people think that this is somewhat helpful. All right, it's paint. Yeah, that's fine with me. If if double yellow yellow lines prove to be safer then let's call it a pilot and do it. Sure. I think we have to say um I think we have if you have one second is there any other committee? Uh my only other committee comment is about the use of Tatty in this case and how what what is our metric to the moment we say because we we get a lot of requests right for stop signs probably 5 10 a year and and generally we handle that inhouse what what's the metric where in your mind you say I need a second set of eyes and we're going to use Tatty for this because it should whatever that metric is should be known and like pol, you know, put in a policy somewhere. Absolutely. No, great question with that. twofold with me reaching out to Tatty is the uniqueness of this just for their eyes, but also I wanted this to be to your point a template that we can use internally of how we use MUTC guidelines and how it was written written from a traffic engineer perspective for our new staff engineer to use best management practices and do more of this in-house. So, we already had those internal discussions about this is what what was done. This is what we paid a limit limited a dollar amount for, but let's just use this as next steps when we go through any residents concerns, how we're tracked with the data and our

response based on MUTC guidelines. That's awesome. So, we're hoping to do more of this in house. Perfect. And I have one last question and it's related to this but sort of not I mean it is but depending on what is built on that empty lot right now I mean that house being gone has made it a lot easier to see what is coming up Kramer obviously and depending on what is built there how would if we as a the people living there in this committee go back and want to readress because I as I said at the one meeting where they were discussing about dividing it into two if that is what happens or there's a house that is built close to the end there. I think we're going to have to have a no- left turn completely in that at that intersection. So would the would it be the same kind of process where the neighbors would bring it back and we would revisit once something is built there if that impacts visual things or I think there's sighteline triangle requirements that's built into when these plans are evaluated through building services that they must uh adhere to and if they don't they need special conditions to go through that process that probably Kelsey could speak to more of that way but I think that this sighteline triangle or any sight line triangle within the village has to abide upon those requirements when they put through their plans. Okay. Anything else in the committee? All right. Anyone from the public who wants to speak on this item? Come on up to the We ask that you state your name and address before your comments. Hey, Wilky Katron uh 4757 Kramer. First of all, thank you all very much. Appreciate the conversation. I guess just a question. It it looks like it contemplates a stop sign. Is that that's accurate? Okay. Just offering um this is great. Just the perspective that a little bit that I've heard from you know Piper and a few neighbors I think would align with what everyone was saying here that the double yellow lines didn't feel as necessary from the neighborhood both

from an aesthetic perspective as well. So if there considerations around not wanting the double yellow lines for president I don't think there's any push back there. It really is around the uh crosswalk and the stop sign. I think the view from the handful of folks including myself is that those two are the things that will really sort of improve safety and so the other ones are you know thank you for all you all's receptivity and and and focusing on this so quickly but the other ones just wanted to see as big focus. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks. Anyone else on this? All right. In that case, I would look for a motion. Well, I would make a motion, but that's probably not good since I live on You can absolutely make a motion. Alrighty then. Let me read the fancy language that you've given us to use. Uh H5. Uh I would recommend to the village board to amend the official traffic map to allow for a stop sign on North Wilshire Road at the intersection of North Wilshire Road and North Kramer Street as shown. Are you going to attach the exhibit for the board or just as shown? Looking for a second. Second. I'll second. Thank you. All in favor? I oppose. All right. Moving on to number four. Discussion recommendation to the municipal code amendments to park and dog ordinances. All right. So, every so often there's a need for a refresh, let's call it, on ensuring that uh the villages ordinances reflect the the habits of our users and residents. So with that, the focus of this item on the agenda was more pertaining to parks and I guess dogs that are in conjunction with parks. So um I guess I'd look for guidance. If you want me to go line by line on these recommendations or how you would best feel that this would be Did everyone

preview it ahead of time? Then I would say no, not line by line. Um did anything did anything jump out at anybody that they wanted to discuss? I just have a question where it talks about for Buckley Park and Cody Park the launching of or landing of motorized boats. Obviously, we don't want that, but I'm reading about canoes and like I do see people using stand up paddle boards. I mean, that do we really not want I don't know where else in the village you could do that. Is that really something we don't want? Great question. So we we had this as a quite the internal exercise but how I understand and it was also verified with our village attorney is we being the village cannot govern anything inside a body of water including Lake Michigan. So we cannot deny people from paddle boarding. We cannot deny people from swimming technically if they're in the water. That's governed through the state the DNR. that's not the village's responsibility to govern any uh body of water. So, this is more reflective to making sure that our our police can technically site our warrant our our ordinances and we don't have any responsibility or governance over Lake Michigan. What people choose to do. Yeah. But the launching the Yeah, it makes it sound like you can't take your canoe or your paddle board. I mean, well, and one thing I hadn't thought about was Buckley Park is very commonly used for wind surfing. Very common. So, are we saying we don't want wind surfing down there anymore? So, Buckley Park is more a stone revetment and there's no actual place to launch. It's Big Bay Park and that's another thing that we discussed is we don't want people climbing on the rocks in order to do that within Buckley Park, but we have no governance as far as if they launch or choose to launch within Big Bay, that would be Milwaukee County ordinance. Okay. Can I ask at Clo Park it is swimming shall be at the

individual's own risk and as you just explained, we can't govern what goes on on the water, but at Buckley Park, no swimming shall be allowed. Can you tell me what the difference or like I understand that there's kind of a man-made cove at Clo but how can we govern one and not the other? So is it because of the rocks also? Yes. the the entry point is Rocky at Buckley whereas the entry point at Cody it's Sandy and Bey and then there's some interpretation per Chris Draels that depending on where our police you know catch the person in the act at Buckley we can enforce but okay because big so big bay is from that the um pier that goes out to the north correct not yeah that's no not even It's even further further south. It It's basically where the revetment starts is where Buckley Park is to the south. And then from the revetment termination point to the the north is Big Bay. So where people are swimming right now anyway is Big. Big Bay. Correct. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I can't imagine a more dangerous place uh to swim than Buckley Park, but I was just curious how we could govern one and not the other or what that difference was. Thanks. Uh I had a question about um OD Park. Um I guess you want to ban the sledding and so on down the bluff. Is is that because of the environmental modifications you made or dangerous and safety? Yeah, that's a dangerous my used to I mean doctor's park's pretty bad or not doctors but okay lighthouse doctor's park you can get a sled down pretty quick too yeah I'm think about St. Mary's. So, let's um let's go back to section

2D. Dogs are permitted in public parks. Uh leashed leashed dogs. So, that's new. Correct. That is correct. And and this, you know, what's the thought process here? That we're just loosening our rules or is this like a best practice or are all communities? I mean, I my my guess is that um no dogs allowed was created 50 plus years ago when and 100 plus years ago when um picking up after your dog was not a thing. Like, you know, there there you had open sewers 100 years ago and so why why not have dogs do what they do? Um clearly that has changed. Clearly, you know, society picks up after their dogs. Is is that where we're going with this concept? Are there other parks that were like what what was the rationale that we used to add a new concept to this? Yeah. Sorry. Um Anna and Chief and I worked on this and so that's why Matt is like I'm for it. I'm just we need to have a discussion on what why. Yeah. So the the thought process internally is that this has hasn't been enforced. It's well known that there are a decent amount of dogs in the park regularly. We have not heard of many complaints at all. Um and so aside from those that aren't leashed or you know if there's a nuisance issue that would be enforcable through provisions in this new ordinance. And so it felt like as Trusty Holler calls them no fun ordinances but like you know ordinances that exist but we don't enforce them. And so we were cleaning things up and thought um this might be a good time to look at it. And that's pretty common place with a lot of communities, Milwaukee County, Kenosha County where I used to work. It's that you can have a dog on a six-foot leash or less as long as you have control over it. So, it seems like southeastern

Wisconsin from what I know that dogs are permissible as long as you can control them and you have them on a shortened leash. And like Kelsey's point, people are doing it. And if they're they're abiding upon every other rule and they're just using the mulch walking path at Cody, I don't see an issue with that. I see them there practically speaking every day. Every day. Right. Yeah. And I Yeah, I'm for it. I just wanted to hear the rationale. Um, additionally, the last sentence, dogs are not permitted in children's playgrounds or athletic field areas. Um, I know that there's a particular sense that Cahill Field, the baseball field, is abused in that way. Um I think I would like to see it specified in in for um letter D. Um where what other athletic fields do we have? Craig council part with those three diamonds like even when I was coaching and helping that I would be cleaning up after dogs when kids were out there playing. So maybe it's just those two. Can I think of any other athletic fields we have? I assume that this meant the tennis courts as well. people use their dogs off leash at tennis courts. Let me just add another couple of sentences about let's let's let's add the word baseball or khill just athletic facilities athletic and tenn well I I uh I there's no doubt that kahill in particular is a hot spot. Mhm. Um I think it's probably because it's fenced and so people say, "Oh, we're going to turn this into its own little dog park." And so that's that's the thing that we want to be very specific about like do not use this as a dog park. And I think we could help out with signage more specific to those fields. And then it's about people calling and reporting and the police now have more authority to site people that are not abiding upon that. So, I think we can do a better job of putting out the correct

signage and then relate to that specific ordinance on there that it has teeth now and then it's up to people to call it in if they see it. Yeah. I along the lines of signage on page 14, section 52 or 5G2. Um, it talks about public areas of village with adequate signage notifying that public are not allowed. Yeah, I don't like the adequate signage piece because adequate is a fluffy term that people can say, "Well, that's not adequate for me. I need a bigger sign." So, let's at least strike that word. Um, yeah. Okay. So, just remove the word adequate signage. Okay. Yeah. I mean, and and let's see here. On school grounds or any other public areas of the village with adequate signage? I mean, does that necessarily mean we need signage everywhere? We don't want dogs or is it co or is it covered under the the ordinances that we're we're proposing? No, because we just allowed dogs in parks, so we're not assuming. Okay. All right. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah. [Music] Um yeah, the the Okay. And then we have all the launching of boats and sailboards and canoes. I is there I understand the concept of not wanting motorized boats. Is is there some rationale u for raft sailboards and canoes or similar devices? Like what what's the what's the public service? What's the public purpose of denying the launching of a canoe at Cloy for example? What what what are we trying to I mean I get it. We don't want a pontoon boat down there. We don't want a speedboat down there, but I'm not sure what the public purpose is to prevent somebody who has like a hydrooil to launch it down there, right? That seems

like a no fun ordinance. That's that's listed in F and D and probably somewhere else. Um, and so I I and and I kind of asked you to to review all of these to challenge these concepts and that's why I'm doing it here in the the public area, public meeting. Um, because I I I'm not sure I see a public purpose reason for stopping someone from launching a canoe from the beach. That doesn't seem to be a particularly, you know, um, particular nuisance that we need to stop. Yeah. Was there was there a particular concern? No, the thought was just, you know, making sure they were crafts that could be carried because obviously you can't pull a trailer back there, but I think a couple people can carry can do what they do all the time easily. Northern waters and all that. I don't I don't see why boats maybe just end with motorized boats. Yeah, that's my big thing is I wanted to prevent the motorized because then you talk about trailers and everything else that goes into it. But I agree. cheap. Uh well, and then saying no vehicles or trailers are allowed on the drive. Yep. Yep. To drive on the multi-use. Uh I would eliminate the word to drive. So somebody doesn't think they can walk their trailer down. Yeah. Use the word like transport or something. They're just not allowed on the multi-use pathway. Trailers are not allowed on the multi-use pathway. Yeah. Great. Yeah. And and they're off. So the only other thing I can think of obviously is construction, but secondly the Fourth of July you have authorized personnel who go down those paths. They're authorized. They're authorized and because we say they are. I would maybe recommend to keep the section 4 part D because it pertains more to Buckley Park though for the launching in that language because again that would be more Milwaukee

County side that we can't govern. True. Yes. So just a recommendation. Yeah. Just clean that up with the concept that if there's no public purpose for it, let's remove it. Yeah. But I mean keeping in mind that we don't want people standing on the revetment launching a canoe. Yeah. Yeah. Because there that's a public purpose. I mean that that's a public safety reason. I think what Matt's saying is leave be asis. I agree, but that was my question but not related to clothing. Right. Yeah, that sounds right. I'm curious. Not that I think, you know, since the white fish are gone, um, that it's a good spot to fish anyways, but what is the theory behind not allowing fishing? I think that was in the beach areas. Is that correct? Yeah, the one should go line by line because that's what we're end up doing. Um, it just says no fishing is allowed period. I think that's fair. Yeah, if people are swimming out there. Yeah, I don't think Yeah, we don't have that. Oh, we do have it for Buckley, but again, we don't want anyone on that reventment fishing. Yeah, never. Um, how are how is everyone feeling about the pickle ball hours? So, that's currently the informal rule, I think. I mean, first of all, the the they all close at 9. I mean, all parks close at 98, 900 pm except at 10. A hill. Okay. Because of the tennis courts there. Um, most likely, but CL closes at 9:00, which is where the pickle ball is. Um, and then we have a sign currently up that says no pickle ball before 8 a.m., but again, that's I don't think that's ordinance etiquette. It's label, not ordinance. And so, we're just we're turning the etiquette into an ordinance. Anna did also call. Do you want to share what you found for other Northshore

sharers? Um, both Bayside and Shorewood at their respective parks where they have pickle ball, they don't start till 8 a.m. So, and what is their end time? Do you know? Uh, in Bayside it is 700 p.m. is the last res reservation slot for the park. So, and their part time closing is a half an hour after dusk. So I would I would entertain ending it a little before 9. That just gets off. Yeah, I think it needs to be before 9 as well. Yeah. 8 p.m. Y So like 8 to 8. 8 to 8. Maybe 8 to 8 or 8 to 7. So to give people a little bit of time to actually enjoy their houses and yards. I think I would go 8 to eight. I mean, dark darkness is going to take care of nine months out of the year. And so, it's really just June, July, August that we're saving that hour, which is the only time we can really be in our yards and fish. And I mean, without a coat on, right? Yeah. I think I think 88 sounds appropriate to start and then get feedback. See how it goes. Share your Yeah. So, with the topic of pickle ball, just for the committee to keep in the loop that we've been uh doing a little bit behind the scenes due diligence with this topic as well. And I see the ordinance change is maybe phase one of other things to come once we find more information out. Uh, I did reach out to Shorewood with Atwater Park and elementary school and they uh potentially have some noise curtains that they do not use anymore that we might be able to have a flash sale and purchase them since they're sitting in the basement. So, I'm kind of bargaining, wheeling, and dealing right now so that we can get them at a

discount for what they don't currently use anymore. I think they had a staffing challenge of putting them up and down on an annual basis. they took them down in winter because of concerns over wind and the fencing is similar to what we have. So, we'd have to go through that same exercise. But either way, uh hopefully we can test that product out uh at a discount, which I think would be favorable for all of us to again just take those incremental steps to respect the neighbors. uh we we heard them at the last meeting that this was discussed and we respect that and I think that this would be step one is discussing the ordinance change and limiting the hours because we heard the feedback especially in the early morning play that is undesirable and I respect that. And then the second thing is trying to reduce those noise levels by hopefully working with Shorewood and their wreck department and purchasing those noise curtains and putting those up hopefully sooner than later as soon as they get back in touch with me. Do do you think it would cover 360 of our I think they said it was shaped like a C for what they purchased which I think would be very similar to what we would look at doing as well. Okay. At least with that step because that's where the neighbors and the residents are more to the west and to the north. Sounds good. And south we can get the whole seat. Um so currently on the table is 8 to 8. Is that generally I'm good with that. Yeah, I think so. I I do wonder if the police have anything to say about it because they're the ones that would have to enforce this. They're they're certainly used to coming to the park at 9:00 to make sure it closes. Like, are we going to make them now come at 8 to It's going to be just like the dog ordinances, you know, when there are concerns. when there are concerns. Well, we will check with chief obviously before Monday when it goes to the board,

but and we have already drafted signage to reflect what this ordinance would be. So, if we feel that this would be favorable at this step, we can start to get quotes from our correctional institute where we get our signs at a deep discount and then hopefully put those on order and have those up sooner than later. Uh, do we have anyone from the public interested in speaking on this? Do you know the drill name and address? It's BC. My name is Steve Kappus. I live at 5960 North Lake Drive. I'm just north of the of the tennis courts and I spoke at the last meeting. Uh I consider myself a rather patient person, but I haven't seen anything happening and the noise level is escalating. Number of people is just skyrocketing. the parking is is a big issue for a lot of our neighbors. Um, and I'd like to hear a little bit more than just we're going to maybe talk to Shorewood about getting some um some baffling. I think that 8 to nine is completely ridiculous. I think 8 to 8 is even is not in my view adequate. We have no use of our yard when they're playing pickle ball. It's just unbelievable. And I think the village has to do something. If they want to be in the pickle ball business, they should find a place to build a pickle ball that's not going to impact the neighborhoods. And if they don't want to do that, then they need to restrict the hours much further. Um, I would suggest 9 to 11 and then 1 to 4 and then let the tennis players have the other times. tennis players is not nearly as obnoxious as the pickle ball players. It is also a kind of a social gathering. There can be

40 people out there on the court talking, whooping it up. Um, we just don't have any use of our backyard anymore. Even inside, you can hear it. So, I'd like to hear what your uh a more concrete um ability to try to reduce the noise and maybe maybe we should ask the pickle ball players what they think. I know there's a lot of places around the country that are restricting the type of balls, the type of paddles, um the hours. There's been multiple lawsuits on this and I I uh gave uh Mr. Collins a website that you can go look at. Uh it's pretty dramatic all the uh lawsuits that are going on around the country in this and I think there may be a suit going on in in Fox Point between town club and the neighbors there. Um I've also heard that our village attorney is defending the town club which gives me pause. Um, so I'd like to hear from you all what you think you can do to make our life more reasonable. And I'm we're willing to have you come out anytime you want on a Saturday or Sunday morning and sit in our yard and listen to it and see and see if you want to do that from 8:00 a.m. till 9:00 p.m. or 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. It's just not reasonable. We can't have people over at our house and talk to them in the backyard. So, I have a question about some of the the number of people because I've been paying a lot of attention. I go to the whack and I go up Lake Drive. So, I go at the time of the morning when they're doing their thing and there's a lot of people there. Yes. Whether they're playing or not, there's a lot of people around the court and I hearing what you're saying about people talking. I get that because where I live, I can hear my neighbors when there's just one

of them talking like really well. So, I can imagine But what's like the difference? Because in the summertime, I'm sure there are a ton of kids there too that you can hear. But I'm assuming that an adult voice probably is is different. I'm trying to figure out, you know, what what suddenly happened. I mean, is it COVID? Is that when all when people started playing the pickle ball and there were so many people because I also don't remember seeing that many people playing tennis there on a regular basis. So, well, there there used to be a fair number of people play tennis. Okay. And the the noise from tennis is not I know the ball, but I'm also talking about like the voices because I I feel like it's loud too. Like the talking I can tell. So if tennis you have two maybe four people on keyboards. Yeah. Here we have boarding people. Right. Yeah. And as far as the children, I don't know. You know, they're a little bit further away. They're in the park. Um, sometimes you get little girls that are screaming and stuff, but they're little kids, right? You know, we we lived with that for for years and years and years. Not a problem. Not a problem with the tennis players. Yeah. But the pickle ball is just a very obnoxious sound. That is when you have four courts playing that ball's going back and forth. There's it's very frequent and it's when the people are talking over because I have noticed like it's not just the noise from the pickle balls that I can see would be an issue at 8:00 in the morning as you know the people standing there waiting their turn and all of that. And I do think another place that I have some property there's a big to-do going on about the same kind of thing and it is it it is very disruptive to the people that live there. While I think pickle ball is fun, too, and I think it's a fun thing, and I'm not saying we shouldn't allow it, I I hear what they're saying. It is really loud and disruptive. So, I can I feel

sympathy for these people. I mean, I think, you know, it it's I sort of like the idea of the 9 to 11 and the 1 to 4, let people play tennis, too. Um, give you some time to have lunch and have your dinner outside. The thing with the one to four is you don't I mean that then all of the hours are during the workday. Yeah. Well, but I I mean I I agree with you. You do sensitive to this as well. Neighbors are home after work, too. I know. I know that. Well, I don't want to get super complicated, but then like maybe one day a week or two days a week, we switch the time up to where it's like 5 to 7 in the evening for the pickle ball so that people can play after work. I mean, we there are other places they could play, too. Very true. I mean, you know, I really think that if if you want to be in the pickle ball business, we ought to find a spot that we could build some courts that are not going to be disruptive to people. Yeah. And if you have to enclose it, then enclose it. Do whatever. But you just can't sit them right next to my house and Dr. Wagner's house and um and let us take the brunt of this. Yeah. I mean, 12 hours a day. Part of it is that it's Cl Park because there are so many houses right there. I mean, I wonder if it would even be and I'm not saying we should move it to Kill, but like I don't know that it would be I don't think that that's better. No, I don't either. But I mean, he's right. Their houses literally back up almost to the courts. I No, I know. I'm very s Piper. Would you like to propose different hours? Well, I mean, we're never going to make all the people happy, obviously. We are definitely, but I I do think I think 8 to 9 is really long. I mean, I think even on like a Saturday, you know, I don't have a little kids anymore. So, I'm going to be honest with you, on Saturday, I might want to lay in my bed till 8:30. I mean, you know, now that I don't have a kid that's waking me up at, you know, 700 a.m. or whatever. So, you

know, if people start playing at 8 on a Saturday or a Sunday and you're wanting to I It's not just Saturday. No, I know. But I mean, I'm just using seven days a week they're there at about, you know, Yeah. So yeah, I'll let that go. Last Saturday was bad. Yeah, it was really bad last Saturday and I went until 8:30 tonight in the town. We got We haven't gotten to the time of this. There's a lot of sunshine. Uh name and address, please. Good evening. I'm Amy Wagner. I live at 5961 Northshore Drive. And I'm sorry I couldn't make the last discussion. I was on call. I'm a surgeon at Children's Wisconsin. And I just wanted to also add two things. The first is the sheer exponential growth in volume over the last few years has been marketked and that small parking lot will not accommodate 16 pickle ballers. They're groups of friends waiting, you know, so it turns into a safety hazard with children running around. As you know, the traffic on shore is often very crowded anyway with summertime. So, I worry about little kids running through that parking lot and pickle ballers running in and out of there. You know, it's just the the traffic itself is a concern. The second thing we haven't mentioned is the fact that I can hear the pickle ballers from my house in my bedroom as can my teenage daughter who bedroom is on the southside. We have installed a sound machine and a fan. And sleep's important. It is not fair for her to not be able to sleep in on a Saturday or Sunday or a day off of school because pickle ballers are out there. You know, it's disruptive for her and sleep is important, especially for a teenager. As I alluded to, I'm a surgeon. I'm often up in the middle of the night operating on small children that unfortunately got shot because the gun violence in Milwaukee has also been massive epidemic since CO. So, if I get a two-hour rest bit at home in the morning before I have to go back to work, it's often during

this time and I cannot rest or sleep when there is that. I mean, it is loud even inside my house. So, I think we're definitely the yard issue. You know, it has impacted my ability to socialize. I have a threeseason room that faces south that I redid when I moved in and got a permit, got my taxes increased, and never use it now because of the pickle ball room. So, it it definitely impacts our neighborhood substantially. And the other thing we have not mentioned is I'm curious about how many pickle ballers are actually Whitefish Bay residents. I don't know that it is the majority by any stretch of the imagination. So, it it disturbs me that we're prioritizing pickle ballers who may be coming in from Bayside or Fox Point over our own community of taxpayers. That's, you know, mildly upsetting, too. So, I appreciate you listening and having a chance to share our concerns. So, thank you very much. Thank you. I would say I do think the conversation is really important. Yeah. But it is veering away from what this conversation is. I think we do need additional sound remediation. Um that's apparent. I would say when we ever we have a topic of pickle ball, a lot of residents do come in. So, we do know there's a lot of White Fish Bay residents who play. Um, it's very clear that we need more solutions, but before us right now is just the time, right? And that's the part. Yeah. And before you leave, I have my name and number. I would like to take you up on your offer and come sit in your backyard. Um, perfect. Yeah. Busy filling out the details before the place. So I was unable to priorities but but I would still like to come sit in your backyard. Um uh but I do think now before us is simply what are the hours? But given given the neighborhood experience I like the idea

of giving them a break. Giving them a break during the day at some point where they don't have to be listening to pickle ball. So like um the enfor Oh, what the enforcement on that is going to be difficult to do understandably, but but we've got to try. We've got to do well. And and I wonder if you have the sign, but then, you know, we have the non-emergency number for the police, which I have used a couple of times when some of my neighbors have had in the darkest of winter at 2 a.m. their snowblowers going. You know, you call and they come over and tell them to stop it. Um, you know, sometimes it was people who didn't know. They had hired a service. The service had no idea they couldn't be doing, well, they claimed they didn't, whatever. But I think this would be the same thing. If we say that you can't do it from, you know, 11 to one, there's no pickle ball. If they start, you call. I think eventually people will figure out if they're going to play from 11 to 1, they have to go to the whack or they have to go to their club or they have to go to Right. I mean I think Okay. So what hours? Well, that's what I was trying to think like not everyone has a club. I would just point out that No, I listed that as an either or thing we listed as a private space. Oh, Glendale has a ball. So yeah. Well, yes. Yeah. One of the indeed the challenges is just the concept that it is um a public space. It's a public park. It is. Um we, you know, 99 million times out of a hundred million we're trying to increase the usage of a park because we we want people to be healthy and use utilize our green spaces, etc. So, it's we need to tread lightly on Yeah, but we don't let people shoot fireworks off in a public park. We don't let I can't take my dog on a off a leash in a public park. I mean, no, it still has to be on a leash. But I mean that my point is

like we do regulate the use of of the public space for so that you're not infringing on other people's rights as well. I I do know what's going to happen if we change this to to like skipping from 11 to one. Um it'll go to the village board and there will be a hundred pickle ball people here who are going to be upset about it. just just to have everybody on the same page that that would happen. And and you know, we we've probably had three or four pickle ball meetings where we have dozens of people who will come and tell us long stories about their pickle ball experiences. They absolutely and I understand that. I mean, as I said, I I like pickle ball. I I understand that. But I think we have to be cognizant of the neighbors. I mean, you know, so I let's just get cut to the chase here. We we have kind of two two or three options here. Um, one is 8 to8, which I think is a consensus. The second is what was a consensus 20 minutes ago. How about that? Let me say it's never thrill. I was never thrilled with it. Um, and and number two is um some form of graduated, you know, 8 to 11 and 1 to 4 or something to that effect. Um the definitely part of part A and and actually both is the concept that the last meeting we had twoish months ago I think um we gave very uh precise commentary to staff that we want sound curtains to go forward period. Um so that that's going to happen you know and it may happen that they come in and they are amazing and then we extend the hours. So, you want to go the other way? You would I would back it up. I would back it off first. I mean, there has been a lot of frustration in I'll say that there will be no way you will ever

be able to back it off because the same comments will occur if you know if if you if you excuse 11 to1. Um there there there's I mean there's going to be people fighting on both sides. Sure. Um but there what this is a bell you can't unring. And so, um, I I'm in the fa I'm in favor of incrementally doing this and saying we need to get those sign sound attenuating agreed curtains up immediately if we can. Um, and and if Shwood isn't going to sell it to us, let's put in an order to buy them. Um, and I'm I'm kind of in favor of the 8 to8 and then see how that works out with the sound attenuating curtains because once you change it, you're never going to change it back. I I think peacemeal times are going to be unworkable and people aren't going to pay attention and it's just going to be a a free-for-all. I would be in favor of 8 to 8 with the sound curtains and I also like us to look at, you know, when I was doing my research for the last pickle ball meeting because I know it's yeah, pickle palooa that everybody shows up. Um I you know there was a lot of research and a lot of gains into mandating the types of balls that are used at courts because you know that paddles. Yeah. And paddles. But like if we could just start to look at if we could just get a a menu of options beyond just the time. Um, and you know, I would just like to say that I don't think the concept of they have 150 people in their group and we have two that that's a reasonable argument for why we shouldn't be able to live in our in our houses without constant noise. I think we recognize that you have a lot more than two. We have we've definitely heard, you know, the reason we're having this conversation is because we have heard, you know, your voices. So, and I also would like this to move

forward relatively quickly because it's already here there. It is over there constantly now already and it's not even summertime. So, I don't want this to go until September or October or whatever. I want the summer to be reasonable. And if and if we put up the curtains and the hours are are left from 8 to 8 and we're still unhappy, then what happens? and we look at other things. Yeah. I mean I think we should look at other things right now. Not I mean that we are that is that is the directive we just gave or that I would like to see us. All right. Thanks. And I will say that I don't care whether it's two against 150 and I know probably most of us feel this way too. This is their home that they are living in 24 hours. Well, not 24 hours a day because we all work, but you know what I mean. That's that's different than filtering in and out. We were only agreed. Yes. Name and address 1013 East Circle Drive. So, I spoke last time because I I have a family member who's suing over pickle ball courts and they did try the curtains and it was not sufficient. I mean, they have people who whose uh units they're in a condominium association are essentially unlivable. I mean, they're just it's just all day long from a club. And I think that if the curtains worked, then I don't know why Fox Point and the Town Club are currently suing each other over the pickle ball up there. And I and I hope that we've talked to them about what's happened and what restrictions Fox Point tried to put on them and they didn't do and sort of what what's going on up in Fox Point. I couldn't wasn't able to actually find the litigation, but I'm sure you all have seen this that that they're suing each other. So yes, so over the pickle ball. So I just and I also want to just point out that we do regulate other nuisance sounds and this isn't just like small tennis. It's you know you have to think of it like we

regulate snowblowers and construction noise and all these other things so that people can enjoy their houses. And I just feel like 8 to 8 is not what we allow for construction, right? And that's an annoying noise. Um so we should sort of think about and there's certainly demand to do construction 24 hours a day in Whitefish Bay. At least on my street, it's been non-stop for the last 10 years. So, at least we get a break at 5:00 or 6:00 when they stop. But I just feel What is our construction? 7 to 5. She's looking it up. The snowblowing is 6:00 a.m. to 10 p.m. I believe 6 to But keep in mind, it's short. It's just that kind of it's not the full 8 to 8. I mean, I think that's what we have to remember. This is 8 to 8. And I I know I'm sure they're not there the whole 12 hours, but it's probably they're pretty. And with the snow blowing, it's winter. It's only when it snows, your house is closed up, and you're indoors. And it's just, you know, so I analogize it more to the the construction noise, right, which goes which goes on all summer long, but we limit it so people can enjoy the houses and the neighborhoods that are under construction. And I just I just don't I'm just a concern that we're not you know it's not being appreciated that this isn't just small tennis like it's not just more tennis because I think people have lived by tennis and they were happy to live by tennis and that people you know I don't know if you've looked but you know property values go down people have trouble selling houses if they're next to pickle ball courts like it's just a big it's a big national problem right now and I just hope that you all will kind of think about it differently than the tennis and the other general recreation that happens in the parks. Um, this would almost be like if somebody wanted to do like motocross in in Cloody Park, right? You'd probably limit that and thinking about the noise of motocross happening in Cody Park. You know, this isn't just like tennis and kids playing. So, I just I just want to

put that out. Um, so just I mean I think you're 8 to 8. Yeah, I'm 8 to 8 and 8 to 8 to 8. Jim, what are you? Yeah, I 8 to8, but I'd like to see how those sound curtains work. And then Piper and I are not 8 to8, but we are outvoted. Yeah. So, that's what we'll go to village board. Yeah. And I mean, again, we can continue on. We're we're we're not dismissing anyone's complaints at all. Um we we we want to move in a direction that is helpful to We're in a rock and a hard place. I mean, we really are. We are. Well, yeah. It also might be nice to know people do live near pickle ball and I assume there is a decibel volume that people can live with or people can feel comfortable in their homes with. Yeah. And we can do testing obviously. That that is that is fair but it might be good as a guide for us to know what those decel volume or levels are. And so we have a goal to work towards versus just like kind of this amorphous. It's not quiet enough yet, it's too loud, it's not loud enough, whatever. It might have a it might be nice to have a metric we can work towards. Well, this is the the option is we have a really inexpensive way to get some curtains at the moment that we are jumping on. So that's that's that part of the curtain work and why they are no longer and why I mean that might be something to consider. I would something even if it is a bargain. It sounds like Matt said they weren't using them because of a staffing issue of putting them up and down and we have

research as far as decibel levels based on that manufacturer product and the label. So we we have been doing our due diligence behind the scenes and working on that incrementally. We're just not there to present it in a formal setting of the public works committee or a village board. But it doesn't mean that we're not researching this, collecting data, seeing what we can do to mitigate this based on incremental steps just like this one in front of us this afternoon is about the times. The next step would be the noise curtains and then after that hearing back from our residents and constituents and players, there very well could be other alleart items in order to keep on trying to reme remedy this issue. So, I think it's just seeing this as incremental steps. We understand and and hear loud and clear that this is a priority and we're trying to move this as fast as possible and we're in I was just in conversations with Shorewood based on trying to get a dollar amount and get those curtains over to Cody Park. So, it it's just we know this is a priority for the community. Yeah. It's just something that we have to to manage and hopefully we can keep them up year round. But again, that that fence, we're just going to have to work through those issues, too, and see what that weight load is and the wind tolerance. So, first things first is putting them up and then just keep on testing things out. I'd also argue we have better skills. Reasonable time frame is we may have to sidebar a little bit on that once we figure that out. But I mean, this is it is a priority topic. So, we'll be meeting again in a month and we'll have an update. Yep. Yep. Is there anything else on this ordinance that I mean on the entire ordinance that we want to change or adjust? Otherwise, I would look at Oh, staff wrote down all the changes that we were looking for. Okay. And then this will go to the village board. You want to make the motion or you want to make it? Okay. I would recommend to the

village or recommend to the village board to approve ordinance 1916 to amend sections 8-65 8-66 8-67 8-68 and 52-32G as shown with the attached document um including the uh amendments that we've direct or staff directives that we've noted amendments and directives amendments and directives yeah because yeah I'll second that okay all in favor I I All opposed. That would be me. Um okay, moving on to the discussion recommendation on the library solar panel project. All right. Um we're bringing this one back. This was uh a pretty thorough discussion in a few public works committee meetings in the past based on both the feasibility of solar panels at the library as well as Cahill warming house. And there was direction to village staff at that time to design and construct our new library roof in order to accommodate solar panels with two different options on the table just in case there was a desire to even expand uh in the future. So this is one that I wanted to bring back to the public works committee because this is like a moving target, let's call it, with uh federal rebates and what's going on on the u federal level. Um, and this might be our our shot to make a decision this year in 2025 before it's put into more of a formal uh CIP schedule with everything else that we have to discuss as a village board with our priorities over the next six years. So with that, um, I requested Arch Solar to run their numbers again to get an updated, uh, rough order of magnitude based on costs

and that was included in this updated packet. And with that, um, they were able to send those those updates and basically the the total cost of the solar panels is now $84,942 is their estimate. And the net cost after the federal tax credits and focused on energy uh rebates would come down to a net cost to the village of 54,247 which amounts to about uh $5,435 a 17% reduction um as far as our energy bills on an annual basis and a return on investment of 9.1 years which is the same as what it was in our previous report. So, the reason for bringing this up is twofold. One is we received uh positive bids for both the alarm panel as well as the roof. So, with the cost savings there, we have approximately $440,000 remaining in capital funds that were committed to those facility projects. And even with the reservation of 15% for con contingencies, we still have an allocation of or an unallocated amount of $390,000. So with that, I was looking for guidance this afternoon on if there is a desire to move forward ahead of schedule ahead of our CIP discussions to um potentially uh work on a village staff to work on a bidle documents to put out there and to bring back to the committee and the board with the solar panels to go onto the library roof. And uh one of the key notes is that um the domestic content bonus is also a moving target within there and it changed and that's why the numbers have

escalated uh by over $1,000 is there was a requirement for that domestic content to be 45% whereas before it was 40%. And then you can see within the attached memo that uh in 2026 that's going to go to 50% and 2027 it's going to be 55. So there's going to be an escalation. The more domestic content, you can only imagine that that's going to drive up the the material cost for solar panels. So the longer we wait, the costlier and the ROI on our actual cost savings of the solar panels goes down. So that's the main driver of this is that it just seems appropriate to if we were going to do it to do it now uh for those reasons as well as it's a brand new roof and um the roofs are typically 30-year expected useful life. It's a 50year shingle that we're putting on there. So to do them in conjunction makes the most sense because there's costs for taking down the solar panels and putting them back up and you want to do that more in lock step with a roof replacement project whenever possible. So again, we don't have that crystal ball as far as what the feds are going to do. I mean, it we we have the numbers in front of us as far as the the incentive programs and what that would mean to the village, but the federal tax credits and the focus on energy, I mean, that that's a real thing as far as there very well could be a risk to the village, just unbeknownst to us that it seems like that's a topic I'm hearing on the radio and the news almost every day that people are not getting their their funding from the federal government. So, I I don't have that crystal ball, that prediction, but this is what's in front of us as far as um what that dollar amount should be. I know we looked into it with building staff on those incentives and other communities and how easy of a process that was to get that

incentive back again. So with that, we're just looking for feedback, commentary, uh better direction if village staff should be spending appropriate time to develop bidle documents because the years of us doing lease agreements with Arch Solar is no longer a feasibility. So it's not like we can bring a contractual agreement or a lease agreement to the village board for something like this. It would have to be publicly bid based on that dollar amount. So, there will be additional staff time that's needed to move this forward, but didn't want to do it if it seemed like it wasn't appropriate with all these different competing uh variables in front of us these days. Uh I had one quick question and maybe I just missed it in the proposal and you know the last time. Um it just seems like we Energies is pushing for a rate increase. I think they did that two or three years ago. I mean, this is it's not uncommon. Does this ROI take into account that there will probably be three to four additional rate increases in the next 10 years? I I don't think so. Not unless it actually put is put forth that I don't think they build their ROI on speculation. And that's fair. So, I was just kind of because, you know, nine years when you say it out loud, it's a long time. I mean, it's a 30-year panel. You hope it lasts 30 years. 9 years is not insignificant, but um trends being what they are, I'm assuming it will be less than 9 years. Uh Matt, I I agree with you. Probably better off to put these panels up when they're doing a roof. Uh but uh didn't we talk about last time we discussed that about federal tax credits? I mean, is that I mean, does Whitefish Bay does a city qualify for that? like I mean not like a private yes it would be a direct payment but we would have to wait 180 days in order to apply for that rebate through the the federal but it would be

a direct payment not a tax credit as it's listed uh second thing um they're talking about an increase in price because of the requirement to increase domestic spending right domestic content meaning like the materials I'm sorry yeah so does that take in account all these recent tariffs I you know because all solar almost all the solar panels come from China right and uh so now the price is going to double basically oh I'm sorry go ahead well with uh what what is it 100 some% of a tariff so maybe domestic spending is better price-wise just some inside information based on my communication with Arch Solars they have a lot of their materials in house in stock right now. Okay. So, that makes me feel more confident that they're not playing the tariff game based on what they have already secured and purchased within their warehouses. In order for us to go through this bid level exercise, we're going to have to go back to the committees and board. And if it goes higher than what we expect here, well, that's going to be a discussion because that changes our ROI. Um, but it's just useful information that they kind of maybe anticipated this might happen and they have that stuff in house right now. But it doesn't change the fact that if it is overseas as far as that domestic content, there's very strict guidelines about what that means and they've been very transparent by saying that they're not able to meet that 45% target by like 3% or something like that. So they just missed that that cut off. Yeah, it's interesting. Um, firstly, a project that, you know, nets out to $54,000 and has an ROI, like we never do projects that have ROI, so this seems

like a no-brainer. Um, the the one thing I I still scratch my head about is I am surprised at the I don't know like lack of electrical generation. Um, it's interesting like without the 28 $29,000 federal tax credit, the ROI would be 15 years. 15 years. And that that just doesn't compute like I thought solar panels generated more. And what what is ours a small what's going on? What is that? My gut feel is that it's just not enough power and like clearly they they know what they're doing, but it just seems like there's like numbers that are wrong or something. I think it's a couple things going on with the library in general terms. First off, uh, with the roof project, we put in spray foam insulation that doubled our R value with the new stuff versus the old. So, that's going to be a bonus checkbox, right? We have very old boilers that run very ineffective. that's also jacking up our Wii Energies numbers. That is part of their their algorithm, right? So, they're using actual numbers of what we're paying. And if we don't have good installation and our boilers are inefficient from 20 years ago, there's a chance that these numbers are going to get better because think of building efficiencies more holistically than just the solar panels offsetting those is how much you can really reduce your gas usage for instance. that if we can bring those numbers down now, it starts to skew it more favorable. So, being a commercial building, uh a very large cathedral style building where you're pumping in a lot of energy, there's certain winds that we still need to do. uh some are in motion with like the insulation, but again to the boilers and how we have a building automated system that's able to ensure the calculation when it's unoccupied that we're bringing those numbers down, which we do to a

certain degree, but it's still ineffective based on the old technology. Everything that we're doing would be multiaceted. So the solar panels think of as baseline to bring down that energy consumption, but what else are you doing with your mechanicals and your HVAC that's going to help kind of bring down our energy usage and our levy within those operation costs? I mean indeed I was surprised at the amount of electricity that that building uses on a monthly basis. I it's a lot. I I I was like how what do they do in there? They have like they have an like an electric sauna or something. They somebody going up in the elevator every minute. I mean that that's going to be part of the conversation. The future is it's the the building structure. You're correct about that. But it's also the HVAC mechanicals that are an issue. Just last week I got a call from Nyama. She put a thermostat in one of the study rooms. 86°. Oh, okay. So things things are happening there that need our further attention because they're skewed and we got to call in our our HVAC specialists and figure out the controls and why this is happening. So the the the solar panels is one part of that conversation, but there will be future conversations that we need to keep on tackling with the library just like the roof discussion that is going to help us in the long run as far as those ROIs. And I think the boilers and the and the controls are going to be a big win for us if we can get those changed. I would love to see a geothermal unit put in back and just Well, we did look into that. And Matt Matt, if you increase if you improve your insulation, put in new boilers, wouldn't that actually um increase the the ROI because now you're using less energy? It'd be higher. More years. What's that? It'd be higher, right? More years. Yeah. more years. Yeah. So you you your ROI would be higher. Wait, but you're still generating the same amount of electricity.

So I'm not so sure about that. Right. You're still generating whatever 50 kilowatts per month generating less than 100% using less. That's true. Yeah. Payback. The payback should be shorter. In the end, you're you're still going to save No, that's true. Let's say $5,500 a month or no, I'm sorry, $5,500 a year. Unless you're doing 100%. Yeah. I don't think I don't think that changes the ROI. That's right. It changes your ratio of demand. Yeah. Right. Well, I I mean I personally think we have the money. Now is clearly the time. I think a lot of these parts are going to be sourced internationally and this is, you know, the future doesn't look bright for that. If we're going to do it, we're putting on a new roof, now's the time to do it. And like Matt said, if it comes back and you know the world has changed in three months by the time we get a bid, then uh then we address it then. At least that's my that's our Totally agree. Yeah. Anyone hear from the public on this? Okay. Then without a motion, I'll make a motion to recommend the village board of village staff to proceed with developing a bid documents for plans for library solar panel installation as described within the memo. Second. Anyone? Second, Jacob. Uh, all in favor? I I um moving on to the discussion recommendation on the bike and ped projects. All right. So, uh, the last village board meeting was the formal acceptance of the bicycle and pedestrian safety study. So that hyperlink is not only directly linked within the memo, but a special thanks to Anna and Aaron that developed basically a new website for us to have where we can have better communication on all of our ongoing projects, activities, priorities. It's more of a one-stop shop. So that's now

been uh posted online. Uh very nice. Yeah, I think they did a great job and just more succinct and clear and something that we can internally point uh residents if they have any concerns or where our priorities lie that there there's a lot of information on there if they want to do a deep dive they can find it through that page. So, thank you Anna for that. So uh within the memo uh I thought it would be prudent to both put onto this document what has already been approved uh over the last year or so with bicycle safety and pedestrian improvement projects uh from 2024 as well as 2025 including the uh RRFB that's going to go across from the high school at Marorrow and KFax. We've discussed and approved the uh safe school zone signage improvements. So, we have all of our signs that are secured. They've been ordered. They're on hand. So, we'll be incrementally um updating, modernizing the signage, the aluminum signs within all of the school zones within the village. And then same with the TAP grant. We had multiple discussions and approvals of where those um projects will be for the school zones, for the bumpouts, intersection improvements. So, that's in motion through the TAP grant and it's in design. um currently with that one. And then same thing with the Whitefish Bay High School that uh we heard the feedback of the residents based on that unfortunate incident off of Arnore that there's a desire for more special events safety improvements. So I just like to say those things out loud so we're not just moving on without uh remembering what we already have in motion because a lot of these things are done inhouse with our operations. And of course we talked about other projects, other priorities. Spring is a very busy time for DPW staff. So, the more we want to do, I think that's all a benefit, but I don't want to get in over our ski tips that were overpromising and we just

don't have that staff ability to do what has already been put in motion. So, that's the first part, but I I do feel that it's still a priority that we can't just have a study and then it for to collect dust. I I do believe that even though we have a lot of those improvements in motion, we we still have a desire to do more. And that's where that second part of the memo goes through on that second page. and staff has put together recommendations of different um short-term uh priorities if it's agreed upon by the committee today to evaluate and look at how we can do more quick launch uh improvements based on the delineators and those those short-term ones is to see how effective they are and start to listen to the neighbors and the resident feedback. Uh and and there there's ways to test them out at a low cost. uh a higher or quicker um release as far as uh those specific locations before we make any permanent improvements with concrete. Right? So, I think that the list in front of us has been conversation points in the past. I think that they're lowhanging fruit, but I also am curious if maybe there should be something else on there or a change. Uh so, it's just more so our top 11 list. It doesn't mean that it's that's it. we're we're done. But it just helps us being village staff prioritize where we can start to focus on more of the nitty-gritty of the design of what that bumpout would look like on with those delineators to make sure it has proper turning radius and trying to use best management practices of what those locations. So there's a little bit of staff time that's put into it on the front end to make sure it's done in a safe manner for both vehicles and pedestrians and bikes. And then as well as going through the procurement process of purchasing those things um

just takes a little bit of time but I don't want that time to be not spent well on our side if there's not a consensus or agreement of the locations. Your philosophy behind multi many of these are temporary so test them out make sure that they are doing what there are no unintended consequences and then move forward. Yeah, you're exactly right. It's the way that the study was written, which I thought was a really good methodology of let's put up some temporary, we're not all in. Um, see how it works in the field turning radius. How do the residents and the neighbors feel and then move forward with the permanent installations once we feel more comfortable with those temporary items? We also strategically picked items that we are optimistic to have non-general fund funding opportunities for in the next couple years. So that way we can move relatively quickly into permanent installations if that's the desire at that point. Um so that's how some of those locations were picked as well. I'm curious how we will um aggregate the feedback because I imagine a lot of the feedback is going to be, oh, I used to be able to turn here and now I can't or I used to be able to get through this intersection faster or now I have to be slow and I think it looks awful. And change is difficult and I imagine many much of the feedback is going to reflect that. And I'm curious if you're at an intersection that has maybe had one accident in 10 years. Um, you know, it's tough to look at the numbers and be like, man, we had zero accidents here last year and we put in this thing and now we have zero accidents this year. So, I guess I'm just I wanted to hear your thoughts about how we would um how we would approach feedback. And let me add just a a little piece to that too. how we aggregate the feedback but also how we then evaluate and create a metric with which we say this is a good change

or this is a bad change like I I think temporary items tend to become permanent because of course they do you know this is is this an improvement yes or no clearly these 11 are going to be considered improvements by some people um and and maybe a lot of people And so that that's a hard uh mountain to climb to say actually it's not just going to be temporary. So along with what Jacob is saying it's not not only aggregating it but the metric with which we use to say yep this is a good change let's make it permanent. How how do we formulate that policy? Do you mind if I please? Okay. I don't want to step on your too much, but okay. So I the first is when we implement, we need to be clear that the intent is to to first roll out temporary with the intention of moving towards permanent if that's what works for the community. And so I think being clear, we're not just throwing up temporary installations in random places. We've had a study. This is what the recommendations are. Now we are doing field research to see if this works. Um so I think just being very clear about that that we we think a lot of these will become permanent. Um I want I don't want to develop a system that is so statistically significant and scientific that it becomes more about the system than about the outcome if that makes sense. And so I very much think we need to put the the temporary installations out leave them out for a couple weeks. don't don't kneejerk changes and things, but then take the feedback and make little adjustments or and then try that out for a couple weeks. And so eventually we're going to land at something that hopefully only a few people are complaining about, right? And then that's when we're going to know that we've arrived at something that makes sense long term and then that's going to be there until the permanent installation comes, which will be many,

many months into the future. So it will be there for a long time uh to hear that feedback. Um, and I guess the quickly you said weeks. Did you did you mean to have temporary things here for weeks or and make an adjustment minimum of a couple weeks and then if adjustments are needed, make an adjustment and the periods would become longer, right? So, if the first installation goes in and we hear a bunch of feedback, then we're probably going to make changes a little bit more rapidly than towards the end of our investigation where we've tried different things. And at that point, they will be out for potentially months, right? Perhaps over a year, it depends. Well, and let's talk about snow plowing because we probably have a hard stop November 1 for anything, right? Well, except if these are temporary that are going to become permanent. I mean, they're temporary. They should be durable enough that they can last through a winter season. Would they not be pl I mean, I'm sorry. Plowing. Most most of what we would be purchasing are these thin delineators that have reflective tape that I'm sure you've seen in other communities. City of Milwaukee comes to mind that a plow if you hit them, they're gone. Like there's no coming back from that. Um, so that way they they have the mobility that, you know, god forbid like a car making a right turn hits one, it's not going to substantially damage your vehicle. They're flexible, but they're trying to set that footprint, a safety footprint of those parameters of the bumpouts or to create more visibility on a bike lane, especially on the curves of Lake Drive or on New Wilson Drive. So, it's it's better safety mechanisms to create that separation. Even if a car does, you know, hit one of them, it won't be dramatic to the car, but it's a it's enough to wake you up to stay in your lane, per se. So, going into like winter, I was say, is your intention to take these all out for winter then? that would we we have not talked substantially about how that would

affect our operations, but it would increase time guaranteed that we'd have to bring in like a K Cabota with a Vplow or a blower within a bike lane because now we can't get to it with our plows. So there there would be um more staff time to clear bike lanes or how to remove snow within a bumpout area where these delineators are. So this would be shortterm I would think through the season to gain enough feedback and then we would do our winter plowing because not as many people maybe are using those. I mean yes they will still be used but I think it would be an issue for us on the operations with a lot of these delineators uh to better maintain because then we'd have other issues of now we can't like remove the snow and now that's a safety hazard with that stuff on those bumpouts. That's interesting because I was in I was envisioning more along the lines of what we did over on Lake View which was temporary but it wasn't really temp I mean and that's I mean what that's a top of mind for everybody because like that worked you know that that and and we turned it over pretty quick so that we had the temporary for I don't know three months and then it was concrete. I'm I'm I'm definitely concerned about the the line items on here that that people are going to want to turn permanent and that logistics are going to make it really difficult. I I think um on those S-curves, some kind of protected bike uh structure once we start plowing, and I get it that, you know, we can kind of jury rig some equipment to to plow those protected lanes, but now you've got material from the main lane being pushed somewhere into the bike. Like, I don't even know how it works. I don't know how you would do it to get and and and mind you, those particular scurves are really dangerous already, you know what I mean,

for for drivers uh in the winter. And so I it's hard for me to think that we would ever sacrifice um the the how many thousands of cars go through that in the winter where we're going to need to have really bare ground throughout that entire So, you know, I'm I'm all trying to get to the point of um we we have to be really careful with creating temporary um uh things that people are going to want to make permanent. And then we're going to say, well, we logistically are going to have really struggle to make these permanent. Um the the lake drive ones, I think, are the ones that stuck out to me. Um that are just going to be a super challenge to to make permanent. And so like then why would you do it? Then then you just you're you're toying with people. Um not not to mention that, oh, by the way, Lake Drive is currently, you know, being constructed in Milwaukee. It's being constructed in Sherwood. It's being constructed in Fox Point. and x number of years from now it's going to be constructed in bay. We don't we don't know what that date is but um that's why I'm nervous. Mhm. Is the logistics and is it specifically those two if we remove those two? I think there are three right is it? Uh well let's see. And then we went on actually I wanted to mention number 10 Wilson Drive temporary protected bike lakes. The bike lakes which that sounds fun. So, but anyways, I would I don't know if we know the start and end dates, but I do have a concern about collecting data when both the northern half or the northern quadrant and the southern quadrant of Lake Drive are under construction, right? I just feel like we're not going to it might be great, but like we're not going to get real data because we're not going to be seeing the kind of traffic we would normally see. We would normally have. Yeah. Is there a desire to instead

of to say it's temporary to have protected bike lanes with those delineators be a seasonality thing that the committee would like to see but it doesn't go more than that. So you have because it's higher usage by you know motorists and bicyclists from May 1st through November 1st that instead of thinking this as a temporary thing that's going to go into a concrete fix that's just using the delineators as a seasonal thing just like we do with a lot of other seasonal stuff that we just have a higher enhancement of of using that as a protected bike lane using delineators. It's not really protected then. It's not protected, but it's more of that visual cue, right? I mean, and that exists a lot of places. You're a biker. These these temporary ballards, they exist a lot of places. It's it's something. It's a clear line. Cars, unless you want to ruin your car, you're not going to slide over in the lane there. It's and it's more traffic calming, especially I think of Wilson where it's got that curvature to it. And yes, we have it striped and marked, but people can go over that that white line. So by having something else there at least while you have higher bicyclist you users we could put that out and then take it down. But the other things I understand like if you put it out and it's like a bumpout what's the intention? How quickly are we going to be able to take that and morph it into a concrete solution that's permanent? Now I can say like having 10 of those we do have a $200,000 capital budget approved within 2025. But would I say that we're able to accomplish all, you know, eight or six or whatever of those and make them permanent in 2025, I think is unrealistic. I think I thought of this as more of the the trial phase, the season to see where where is there a desire by the committee and the community like everyone feels like these are our top three. we got to experience

all nine of these areas, but where do we think that the lowhanging fruit for permanent would be and have that conversation or do we just want to do where we just know in absolutes that we're just going to do temporary quick release? We have the 200,000. Let's try it out with the anticipation that we're going to make that into a concrete solution this year. So, I think it's the desire. Do we want to test more areas out or be more laser focused? I I think this is this is a great plan and we've we've done a lot of work. And so if the S-curve is giving anyone pause for right now, let's just take it out and we can talk about it again in a month when this group meets if there's a desire to move forward with that. I'm I'm good with that. And I um the the one substitute I'd like to make or not a substitute but rather a particular road that I that I that I was kind of surprised didn't have a a pilot project and that was Henry Clay. Um, Henry Clay's a major thorough fire to the middle school and probably the high school too and and it's narrow and right now we've got the construction from the Margarite and so I would love to have seen one temporary bumpout project on Henry Clay. Um, where I I I'm open to suggestion on where a good one would be. Somewhere between Santa Monica and Marlboro, I guess. Um ju just I I know there's a lot of residents north and south of Henry Clay who use that corridor. You know, it's a massive parade of kids every morning and every 3:00 3:30. And so I would have loved to have seen one there. Um, so if you know if we were doing some horse trading here, I would say um remove the temporary protected bike lanes on Lake Drive. So two number two and three uh and then swap out anything on Henry

Clay, whatever you think might work. Idol Wild and Henry Clay where Idol Wild is it's not perpendicular Idle Wild right where the 600 Clay women's club you know because it's it's can the women's the women's club development thing is just a whole bunch of awfulness I don't want to do anything there right I mean on the other hand maybe that's exactly where we should do something it's it's awful right now I'm saying on Idle Wild on the north end of it. Okay. To make it easier for people to get across because everybody has to cross. Okay. Okay. Now, knowing there's construction traffic for the next five months, six months. I have to ask Joel on. Yeah. I mean, that that we're all right. This is I mean, we can move it a block instead of, you know, is it Idle Wild? Is is that the northern border of it? Well, the only reason I say I say Idle Wild is because I also know that Idol Wild is a is a thorough fair for everyone going. It just seems to be where everybody goes because they're going up to the library. They're going up to the library part. I mean, yeah, it's a pretty busy That'd be that'd be great. Um, back to the I don't know if it's on the actual Do do you know if that was on the ped bike plan or are we just going to add it? We're winging it. Okay. I'll bet you I bet you there was a whole bunch of sticky notes along Henry Clay though. Okay. I guarantee you that. That doesn't mean of course. I mean, it's just the study. It doesn't mean that we can't do based on recommendations. Well, yeah. And I I mean, I only said it this we're talking about 100 clay, but if we were doing anything 100, I would look I know we've given a lot of directives. Um, but if we could start reaching out to neighboring communities to figure out how they do plow protected bike lanes. They're popping up in Tulsa. They're popping up in Milwaukee, Franklin. Like, they're becoming very common. And so I

assume there is a solution that can't be so ownorous. I I have had meetings with the city of Milwaukee topic and they they do kind of work with their operations team but to be honest not really. And so the engineers are doing their engineering thing and then the operations get handed after the fact and say go figure it out. and they they have some growing pains with it too, but there's specific equipment that they have to buy in order to take care of those bike lanes and they leave all their temporary like delineators, ballards out year round because I think it's a staff capacity thing that they just can't take it up and down on a seasonal basis. But you can drive through the city of Milwaukee and see that a lot of those need extra love and attention to replacement. and they're just getting into that now where I think that was one of their lessons learned when I talked to the city of Milwaukee is that they wish they did more on GIS and they had more reporting in order to do better response to m maintenance of these temporary things. So they don't plow period in the city of Milwaukee. That is also true of everything. I would I would go to Tulsa or somewhere and ask and Tulsa does not have a lot of protected light bike lanes. they have a lot of painted bike lanes and I think it's for that reason well and I guess the other point I would make to the committee is that the protected bike lane as a concept is not to actually protect the biker at all times. It is to prevent drivers from getting accustomed to using the bike lane as a second lane or to veering into that lane. You know, it's almost like it's like a speed bump, right? You know they're out there, so you try not to speed too much and like where you think there might be a speed bump. Um the most dangerous parts of biking in a bike lane are when cars try to use the bike lane as well and you already are in the bike lane attention then they stop you. So um having protected bike lanes periodically is

almost more effective I think because then it kind of you know it keeps drivers on guard and prevents them from just willy-nilly jutting over to try to pass someone. Okay. So we have essentially eliminated two, three, and 10 for now. Is that correct? No bike lakes. All the bike all the bike lakes are I'm actually in favor of a bike leak. I think that'd be kind of fun to try. It's temporary. Well, we can't govern anything in the bike lake from I'll reach out to our friends at the DNR. Is everyone in agreement with number one? Um, I I mean I we talked about this once before when I saw this and we had people come and they and you were going to talk with them again because we decided not to do and they're okay with all of this, I'm assuming, or we decided that it was more I did not send out a resident notification letter to our residents along Bulmont regarding number one being temporary um restrictions with left turn movements. It's also Sendex too. Yeah, there's like do they have to I was surprised that some of them didn't want it. That's because I think it's a crazy place to try to turn left and right of all places feels like the place to be agree. I wasn't sure what their I just I didn't know what how that circled back. If there's a desire, I'd be more than happy to send out a resident notification based on that this could be a temporary um thing that we're just trying out. So I I don't know if there's a desire that follow like I like the idea. I like exactly what you said, Tara, in that it let's just try it for temporary. But then I get back to that metric question. At what point in time are we going to go well that didn't work? You know, we got two complaints so that we're not going to do this like well and I think that I mean the problem with a metric is each of these intersections or each of these areas is so unique. What metric would apply to all of them? And I don't know that there

is one. I mean I I think that we can trust that. Yeah. our public works. You know, I I think we can trust our staff to be able to go, "Yeah, no, this is not a good thing." Not to mention the police because it will also depend upon the severity of the complaint or the concern that is brought up. I mean, if it's I don't like it, that's different than, hey, you know, I popped a tire or, you know, or I almost hit a child because they were darting. I mean I I I think we need to make sure we give some space to staff to be able to we may have metrics in four months. I think right now we just don't know and it's perfection versus progress type of thing like let's just try a few which is why I kind of like the idea of getting rid of some of these so we can you know do the others really well see how it goes. But I with the lake drive bulmont piece I I feel like let let folks see it let them experience I didn't understand what their complaints were. That's why I was confused and I'm I'm fine with it and I don't think you need to send them anything. You already did, but I just wasn't sure. I knew some of them were really upset and so we decided not to do anything at that meeting. Yep. Or whatever and I just wasn't sure what the circle close was. But I'm I'm fine with it. We will send them life-saving infrastructure. Okay. So then, so two and three we've eliminated for now. Four. Any strong objections to Silver Spring and Hollywood? I I would just talk about four and five together since they're, you know, 120 ft apart. Yeah. Um I feel like we should do one of them and not the other. I don't know. Oh, I think we need them both. That area is just the Wild West. It's just that it's it's the temporary nature that concerns me that it's like made of I remember the one at Lake View, you know, plywood. It's not plywood. It was 2x4s. Yeah. And but it was 2x4s that surround that and inside of them were very large sand barrels. I mean, so it was pretty obvious,

right? But curb extensions are we going to have Well, we I mean, we could essentially do the same thing. Stick a sand barrel there. I think they're going to be there. Yeah, we're purchasing specific delineators in order to Jacob like both of those are awful. I'm just a little worried about doing it both at the same time temporary, but I don't know. Give it a try. I mean, we could always take it down if like suddenly we said this is awful. Are we talking all four corners? I think we need to get to that point with the design that we need to figure out internally. It's more is there a desire at this standpoint and then we have to take it to the next step with our staff engineer and really figure out what would work best for those corners. So, especially uh would it be console you're you're going to dramatically if you put it on all four corners, you're going to dramatically narrow console and that is probably where Sendex has delivery vehicles pulling in and out. So like you might only be able to do the eastern h or the western half. I don't know. I I like that's that's one that like I don't know that's one that they'll investigate with Sunday to figure out. Okay. Is anyone opposed to additional bike parking? Number six. I would just be sure we're getting bike park. Sometimes the bike parking that uh municipal municipalities get is like it's great if you want to lock your tire to the the bike rack, but if you actually want to lock your frame so it doesn't get stolen, then it like you know people think it's really wonky. Do we not already have some? As far as bike racks, we have the individual bike hitches I call them along Silver Spring and you can lock your frame to something like that. It's more so that we we tried some locations last year with more traditional bike racks, multi-rackck bike areas, and we put a couple out by Starbucks off of Santa Monica. Uh where

was the other one? Uh maybe Sendix, right next to the flag pole. And because we had that as right away real estate, but there's limited real estate where we can actually put larger scale bike racks because we just don't own it with that property. we only have about 10 ft of sidewalk and the rest is owned by the business owners. So, we approached some other Silver Spring business owners and they're like, "No, that wouldn't work for our customer base or what have you." So, it was their decision. So, I think we just need to hone in where the bike hitches would go, where it would not hit a door when someone's swinging their car doors open. So, you think that you have all this real estate, but once you start to look in the nitty-gritty, it's just figuring out where where it best conform. Maybe, you know, maybe we talk about not having it on Sober Spring. We own the parking lot behind Winkies and the Stone Creek is probably where the that corner is where I see bikes piled like on a Saturday every in the summer like everybody's going out for their coffee rides and I just see like mountains of bikes and so like maybe some nice signage and some like a take one or two parking spaces and make it bike parking over there. I I reached out to Stone Creek, met the management team over there last year, and the village board approved that uh 15minute parking loading zone. Um, and I was planning on using the green space, like the grass area for that bike rack location. And I said, "This is something that would work on our side. It's our real estate." I never heard back from because they had some concerns of how that would interact with their loaning zone. So again, I was trying to reach out to the business to see if it would work for them. Even though we own it, I didn't want them to be unsettled with having a bike rack. Sure. By the way, silence me agreement. Yeah. May maybe I'm just letting you know that we have done a lot of work to try to find this. So make work for the business. I would say that just one last

thing about bike like this comes up every year and I swear to God we've added I don't know how many bike racks in the last three years where okay let's put more here let's put more let's put more um and it feels like we'll always there'll never be enough bike yeah we'll always hear from somebody that says there wasn't a bike rack 10t away from where I wanted my bike rack to be parked I mean that's that's legitimately what I I I we did get feedback that they don't want to have to walk walk there was one there was one feedback where I'm like they they said I walked down Silver Spring and there were no places to put bike racks and so I'm like you know what I just got this email I'm going to take a walk right now and I went down Silver Spring and I counted 30 different spots to put to put bike racks. I'm like what is this guy talking about car drivers in that respect. Very true. Very true. And so this is kind of a no-win situation. I I'm I'm always in favor of finding a logical place to put a bike rack, but um then then you'll see pictures of like, oh, it's Fitzies and all these kids have dropped their bikes. They didn't want a bike rack. They wanted to drop their bike at Fitzies and have an ice cream cone. They don't want to lock it. They just want to, you know, ditch it and go. And so these mountains of bike over here, Mr. Mountains of Bikes, um that's just going to happen. And I'm I'm happy to install more where it makes sense, but I don't think we're ever going to make everybody happy with I have a spot exactly where I want to put it and I don't have to travel 25 ft to lock my bike. So, just saying that you ever walk in cleats, those bike shoes. I have never I do not have a pair. It's an It's an experience. Okay. All right. Moving on to number seven and eight, both on Marboro. Any objections to the Marble and Kofax which is in conjunction with the rapid flashing beacon. Any objection to that one hearing? Not I say no. Let's move on to Marorrow and Hampton temporary cur

curb extensions. Again, that's right by Cumberland. This was talked about a lot if we could add it into the TAP grant. So, I thought thought this would be like lowhanging fruit to really expedite that one since unfortunately we couldn't afford part of that grant to see if that might be one that we decide with the 200,000 or less than that if it's the cost is. So, it just seems like that is it's a hightra, high visible area school zone. It checks a lot of boxes. So, that's why we put it on the list. All right, number nine, Santa Monica Boulevard and Bowmont temporary. And that again, we have had a couple discussions about. Okay. I think number nine is number one. Like that. Well, number nine is in the list. I know. I'm just saying like that. That's a great one that we've got room. We've talked about we've talked about it. Like that's a that's a good one. And then number 10, we eliminated. So number 11, traffic calming policy. That is something that I think you do not need us to say to go ahead and do. Correct. if you're okay with I think that would help staff out because we do get a lot of residents that are engaged with concerns about speeding or an intersection that there's good templates that were part of the study that I'd like to look at bringing something forth to the committee and the board sooner than later so everyone is more transparent on the process of how we manage resident concerns and engagement with traffic calming and the lending library would be for so That that's was also part of the study that there's tools like even cones or barricades or what have you that could be lent out for traffic calming that almost looks like a construction zone if you want to say that that could be part of a policy of how we manage that if that's the desire of the committee of trying something out that's more nitty-gritty. So being aware of the fact that there will be people who will say, "Oh, can I use those for my black partners?" Just going to say, "Yeah."

And are we I mean I I'm not saying that's a wrong thing or a right thing, but just being aware. Also, the other thing to be aware of that I keep seeing out there is that if you have a dumpster, and we have many many of those, that the village requires you to have um flashing lights on on a barricade and people are having a hard time finding those. is do we want to be in the business of Thank you for saying that and that's why I didn't want to I think there was um I I forgot during the last village board meeting the lending library was brought up and I wanted to bring it back here because I think that you're exactly right we need to make sure we do our due diligence of what that would look like if if at all right so I want to look at what other communities do and then bring forth something as part of the overall traffic calming policy is that one of the alle cart items that would be part of our policy. So that's something that I want to have time to look into, but I wanted the committee just to have that more universal like yes, this is something on our top 11 list for staff time both on the operations and myself and Maxine to look into the traffic column policy because that will take a little bit of time. It'll take energy, but then we have a road map of how to manage these things in the future. So, we don't know exactly what that'll look like, but it's just on our list of where we're going to prioritize the study and and we have on there as far as an additional attachment. There's a lot of line items. There's a lot of stuff on the grid. We're not going to be doing everything within one year. This is going to be a multi-year process to keep on having this as a dialogue. So, it's just trying to, you know, eat the elephant one bite at a time of thing, right? So, this is just where we think this is more realistic based on what has already been put in motion. what I talked about before and then this is the additional items that I can prioritize with our DPW staff. Good next steps. All right. Is there anyone here from the audience who wants to speak on our top eight which we are now down to from top 11?

All right. The only comment I want to make is the in the memo when it goes to the village board it the last sentence says the village board approved 25,000 within the roadway safety fund budget which can be utilized blah blah blah. We also allocated some borrow $200,000 there. Can you put that sentence in there? Because otherwise 25 grand seems a really like a really small amount. Just add the sentence about the number we put in the borrow too. Thank you. Okay. Anyone want to make a motion? I would be happy to. Um, I'd like to make a motion to recommend the village board to approve the use of roadway safety fund to purchase necessary supplies and services to implement bike and ped safety improvements as listed in the attached memo and edited by the committee. Second. Okay. All in favor? I and just thank you. I know this is really exciting. We've been talking about bike ped stuff for a long time. It's exciting to actually see like, you know, stuff moving. I sw I I swear when we put up that first temporary one, let's like ribbon cut it or something. Let's you know. Yeah, we'll make sure our social media and we make it where everyone's going to know what we're doing. So, definitely. All right. Anything on the um status report that you want want to highlight or anyone have questions? Very detailed. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. Yeah, of course. I think it's take you a long time cuz like it's super long. The first couple times it takes a while cuz it's all new that we're putting in there. So I would say like January, February of 2024, we're very heavy lift, but now as new projects come, it's more about what's in red that I really edit. So it's not everything brand new over and over. So it's not that heavy a lift, uh, honestly. And I think it's a good communication tool not only for the committee, but if someone has questions on projects, I can point to this and just have a better dialogue with the resident based on what we're doing. And it's a good reminder about

all the different tasks that we do as a village. I mean there there's a lot of projects out there and I just I think it's a good reminder about what we do, how hard you work, the little um but I think the only thing I wanted to point out is I've been impressed with the library roof contractors and they've been amazing to work with. Communication, I I can say they're on my top five list as far as how well they're communicating. Awesome. texting um making sure that their site cleanliness is done in an appropriate manner. They had flaggers out there the first couple days when there was a lot of movement and traffic to ensure that people cross and even Marorrow was handled. So for multiple reasons I'm very happy because you just never know with a low bid who you're going to really get that you try to vet that stuff. But we we were lucky with with them and hopefully by this Friday actually they should be substantially complete. It is comically loud in there when you go in. Oh, it is. It's It's like hilarious. I mean, uh it's man that you can, you know, if you're used to like kids yelling stuff and you can't get through, but um yeah, I was like I was a little surprised. Oh, yeah. Especially more on the northern wing, the adult section like send some Tylenol over to staff. Oh, I think it's probably very happy because they're very sick of cleaning up puddles of water all over the place. Yeah. But, you know, a week of banging. Yeah. Um, okay. Anything anyone have questions about anything? Otherwise, unless wants to hang around for a while, move to ajourn. It's good. All right. Do we have a second? Oh, oh. Yes. Oh, please. Yes. Or we can close the meeting and then just tell. Okay. Had you had we known you were not here for something on the agenda, we would have asked you earlier. Oh, well I was

late so I I felt bad. Um Moren Duza 50001 North Palisades Road. Um Matt, I talked to you. Uh I read in today's newsletter that you're planning to open Ugly Park end of May, targeting end of May. Um, nobody wants it done more than me. But I was going to say you're not complaining about that. Um, every window, every bit of the front of my house is covered in dirt and dust. So, I am wondering what we can do to allow people to go down the switchback and open and everyone can enjoy that. but keep the top of Buckley Park and Big Bay really fenced in so that that grass can grow. And I mean right now the ground that's going to tell us it's so it's so compacted and the cement trucks wash off right there on so I mean there is going to have to be layers of soil removed new top soil put down and I would like to get through one ideally two mowings before everyone one descends on that property. Great timing. So, uh, last week, Friday, we sent or I should say the general contractor, Mid City Corporation, sent out, uh, bid documents to obtain quotes for the landscape and site restoration. So we have design elements that talk about what that is as far as soil compaction bluff stabilization where we

have the rip wrap where the temporary outfall went in the switchback walking path to have a new asphalt surface going down there. So that'll all be done but specifically with the the dirt the the areas that were disturbed that are rocky gravel. I was out there this morning with the contractors walking the site based on the landscape plan. Uh we have contractors that will be out tomorrow to evaluate that site and to obtain quotes for that restoration that are due this Wednesday. So in a couple days on Thursday we'll have uh price prices back from those contractors as far as a subcontractor to our general and we'll be able to determine the feasibility of doing sod versus seed. It's my goal to sod at least the Buckley Park side of things if not the whole entire thing where those sites were disturbed and maybe it'll be just costneutral based on how much we're going to require the contractors to water and establish that grass. So that is part of our bid level document is to evaluate the difference between seating and waiting that period of time and fencing that we have talked about in our internal meetings versus just getting that park opened as quickly as possible to a a state that people can start to utilize it the next day after. Well, I I will tell you that um that's not a good idea. Um because sod looks beautiful but until it roots in. If people walk on it for the first four weeks, you will have buckling divots created throughout that park because it will be very soft and um it it's just as problematic. Well, then it' be buckling. So it's it's more expensive. Hey, I don't like that. It's more expensive. You still have to water.

Mhm. Yes. Um and if you walk on it that first 30 days, you're going to have divots. I would just say just uh you he doesn't need me to speak up for him, but I know Matt has you know, he grew up in parks and there is no one in this the entire state that I trust more with grass and and and And I'm serious like um I mean landscaping grass you know I mean parks parks just you know he know I I have complete faith that him and his team are going to get that site up to par and they're going to make the contractors do the work and if there's a problem they'll be in there you know before you even know it to fix it. I have uh and I say we're not against having fencing for a period of time for the grass because like you're investing a lot in either seed or sod and so like we're not going to just open it up for a big party, you know? I I we we'll figure out what's the right time to keep it fenced. I'm hoping you guys do that and don't rush it because as much as I want those fences down, Matt, I you know, everyone's going to want it. We all miss it terribly. It's like such a a loss for the village. People, you know, walk by it so sad. But um I really hope that we just give it the extra time it needs and the other things that I brought up in my letter to you Matt about let's now that we have a are going to have a fresh park let's give some consideration to maybe not driving the cherry picker truck over the lawn repeatedly to raise and lower the flag. Um, I've got someone

who can so it can be done manually from from the base so that you don't have to do it from I I think right now they're stuck. They have to do it from the top and they have to use that. I checked on that and that was historic many years ago that that was more of the the function of that flag pole, but I talked to one of our main uh workers that do like the raising lowering based on uh you know presidential proclamations or what have you, but they it's all based on the lanyard and they don't need to drive a truck to the flag pole in order to use a cherry picker. So maybe historically you have seen that and that is accurate, but not for the last few years have they done it that way. They they have Okay. I'm just I'm there. I work from home. I see it. Um obviously they haven't done it in the last 10 months, but um they definitely been doing it up until when that park was closed. Certain for certain. Um the park um the um county parks will have to talk about their trash pickup because they also drive up onto it. Um it just seems silly to now ruin it now that we we are going to invest the money in it. Um and then the other question I had is the um lift system every Tuesday that was being checked. It hasn't been checked now as far as I can tell for quite a while. Is that something that's going to be go back to routine checking or was it like was it impacted in any way or It has not been impacted and we do have our automated uh alarm. I actually get it on my cell phone that it it does a cycle and it does a test to make sure that both of the AB systems are working and

functioning correctly. So that system is still sent out to myself, superintendent, foreman, some other critical people. Um, so that system is still operational and we have received even during the closure of the park alarms that we had to go and and pull one of the pumps because something got jammed in it. So we are still actively monitoring and maintaining that facility. Okay. I didn't know if it needed some refresher of some sort. We we do have a maintenance schedule with it and that's part of our annual program as well. Okay. Well, I appreciate all you guys are doing over in that area. Um Well, thank you for dealing with us for the last several months. Yeah. I mean, you have no choice. True. So, thanks. Uh we have a motion and a second on the table. All in favor? I oppose. All right. Motion meeting ajourned. Thanks everyone. A gut