Westminster Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

We'll call the October 21st, 2025 meeting of the planning and zoning commission to order. Your first items on the agenda are approval of the minutes of December 19th, 2024 and January 16, 2025. Make a motion to approve. You all had a chance to motion made second to approve the minutes of December 19th, 2024 and January 16th, 2025. Any questions hearing? None. All in favor say I. I

I oppos. No. Seven. In accordance with general provisions article section 3-306C2 of the annotated code of Maryland and without objection, it is noted that the minutes of tonight's meeting reflect that the planning and zoning commission met in a closed meeting on Thursday, September 18th at 7:35 pursuant to general provision article section 3-305B7 to consult with council to obtain legal advice. Um all members voted yes and um attending the meeting where the planning is only commission members and city attorney. The planning commission took no official action of that meeting.

Okay. Yes. Um there's one reference to the general provisions article that's incorrect. It's not 3306. It's 3305. I just want to make sure accurate. Okay, that record reflect that correct.

Okay. Uh, first item of new business preliminary subdivision M240027 Met Branch Industrial Park. Mark Jacob LLC the applicant represented by DRS B preliminary subdivision plan N24-0027 metal grants industrial park 5 uh proposing to subdivide the property which is approximately 15.755 acres in the three industrial lots um the property is located on that one um it's located northwest to the Meadow Branch Road, Meadow Creek Drive and Buckshot Grove intersection and is identified as tax map 07148895 mass 38 11 partial 806. The property is zoned IR restricted industrial zone the purpose of which is to provide an appropriate location for industrial and manufacturing uses to conduct businesses as an allowed use. We can move on to

can I just ask a question? This is not so much about that. Hookshot Road is the road that connects Industrial Road by the airport down to where it Yes. connects the Buckshot's a very short it's it's almost just a link or a section with me branch road. Yeah.

So Meadow Branch Road as it turns it becomes Buckshot and it ends Buckshot when you get to this intersection goes back Meadow Branch. So again it's uh the proposal is to subdivide the property into three lots 9 10 and 11. Um some of the things we are looking at here is access to the property. Um nine and 10 are there's a shared access easement being proposed. Lot 11 there is no access proposed this time. I'll be determined when the development plan comes in. it's a little bit more um the property is a little bit uh steeper in that location. So locating an exact location isn't really necessary at this point. One of the things we wanted to point out that we need think needs to be on the plan is denied access branch road. Uh it's you have environmental issues back there and uh deep flops and we're closing that they cannot have access from that access fast food from Buckshot. The applicant's aware of this and uh there often there'll be a proposal for access off of metal branch. Federal branch is also owned by the county. Um so then you you remove any type of review access review from the county. Buckshot is owned by the city. We would control access uh for these developments. The subdivision proposes to dedicate approximately 7.7795 acres as design as partial A of rightway to the city along Buckshot. In addition, uh the subdivision post dedicate 68096 acres designated as partial B of right of way to Carol County along Metal Branch Road. Um so with this subdivision, you have dedication happening obviously to both uh or both jurisdictions that have

rights ownership to those roadways. There's still some outstanding issues in Metro Branch. The city owns some right of way on the northern side. Uh the county owns basically the center portion of it. We also have old Crater Church Road that needs to be abandoned. [clears throat]

You can see that little um curvature in lot 8 that used to be the old right of way of private church. So this is the preliminary ultimately move the final. We'll have to have a mayor of county council approving the abandonment and [clears throat] also accepting the dedication that happens at subdivision. Preliminaries are showing demonstrating what eventually what could happen or should happen. We're still working with the county on fixing the meadow branch road right ofway issues. It's but it's not part of this property. It's something that the city has to coordinate with the county on to fix those other elements. We felt that the preliminary subdivision shouldn't be held up because of external issues of the city county trying to figure out ownership of mine. Um and again we'll continue working with the applicant and the county as we move through the actual uh subdivision of the properties. Uh parking will be determined during site plan review. Landscaping the only element of landscaping that's required for the preliminary subdivision is this 30 foot landscape easement. Um the only concern that staff has with that is the applicants also showing a utility easement within that landscape easement. Um I believe the landscape easement requirements can still be met but staff wants to make sure that the applicants aware of the fact if that the landscape ement if it can't be met the utility easement has to meet not vice versa that they have to meet the requirements of landscape uh landscaping requirements within that ement and they're highlighting the staff report a firm and certain type of landscape landscaping is required uh Water allocation applications are submitted on the site development plan. So no water's being allocated as part of this uh process and also development design purpose

manuals also will be looked at when we look at the inter. So with that, um, staff is asking that the commission consider conditional approval of preliminary subdivision plan M240027 Meadow Branch Industrial Park 5 subject to the following conditions. One, all proposed easements shall not interfere with the requirements of Don or section 16457. that the requirements of ordinance section 16457 cannot be achieved due to the [clears throat] east. The eastman shall be relocated outside of 30 edge. Two, depicted the number of access to lot 9 1011 meadow branch road is to be prohibited. Three, address all remaining city of Westminster and handover land service uh comments. Did I have any additional for this one?

That completes my report. I'm available for any questions. Mr. Da, um just to clarify the process. So this is a preliminary plan. Yes. Will the final plan come back to us or just site plan? The final plan comes back to the planning zone commission to determine compatibility or consistency with the preliminary sub. Okay. So we're just approveing the preliminary tonight. Then the final will come back to us. But then after the final then when the site plan when the different parcels get developed those site plans will be coming back to us as well.

Each individual site plan goes back to planning commission. We do have a site plan in for lot 10 um that is under review. So we will have one that's on the heels of this preliminary subdivision is subdivision. And can you clarify maybe I'm just having trouble finding it. This like strip of land that's running through 11. What is that? That's Crider's Church. That's an old rightway for Cryer's Church Road that the city owns that we would have to abandon. Uh the northern portion of it, that little piece within Metro Branch Road would have to be then dedicated to the county. Uh the portion on the property itself would be abandoned and would uh go into lot 11

because it's not [clears throat] showing up in reality anymore, but it's still a paper Exactly. a paper road. Um so we're going to that will disappear. Okay. And then could you just give clarity of exactly where this uh easement is on the screen that you're talking about the concerns between the landscape buffer and then the uh utility easement.

So you have the landscape buffer is 30oot buffer off the property line that borders the entire development. That's a requirement of the IR zone and subdivision. Um you see these hatched areas here in the front. There's a that's for utility easement surveying both lots 9 and 10. And then you also have some easements in here um for drainage and storm water management. So which are 30 ft wide. So they they are within the same easement of the same area of the landscape um landscape. So, do you you don't have a concern about both those ements being in the same location as long as they're not you don't as long as the applicant doesn't then turn around and say, "Oh, I I only want to do 15 ft of landscaping instead of 30 ft." Is that what your concern is?

Well, they they can't if they can't meet the requirements, can't provide the burl, can't provide the plantings, the easements, I don't want to develop to therefore go get a variance. to not have to meet that standard. Um, so you would want the the landscape easement to kind of push back farther into the property, right? the actual utility easement could be relocated outside the landscape easements because you prefer the landscape ement while the along the right way providing that [clears throat]

and we we met with the engineer for this and um I I don't think it's a concern but I was making the point that this the landscape easement is important and it shouldn't be overshadowed or lost uh due to utility easements. Anybody any further questions the commission? I will because I got the draft motion in front of me. I will move that the planning and zoning commission conditionally approve the plinary subdivision plan M240027 Meadow Branch Industrial Park 5 pursuant to ordinance article uh 24 and based on the October 21st 2025 M240027 staff report and the conditions of approval which if you can go back to that screen are those three right there on the screen right now.

Yeah. Right. Motion's been made to approve the subdivision subject to various conditions. Second motion been made second to approve the subdivision plan under subdivision plan 440 27. Um are there any questions? All in favor say I. And I no have it. Okay. The next item is development plan S24 z storage.

Yeah. that please.

So this is for um the Selman plan to approve to construct a new 66,494 95 square foot self storage facility and the property is located um at lot 6 in Meadow Branch Industrial Park 2 that is um at the intersection of Meadow Creek Drive and Fiders Church intersection. the access to the property will be happening um from from Crider Church and the property is zoned IR. [clears throat] So we have um the applicant is Angles construction. It is represented by BPR and they submitted this uh site's val plan in order to get this approved. So in your um I have a whole bunch of stuff that I gave you regarding this property. So, just want to explain real quick as you're looking through everything. Um, here you have your site plan, but as we go through, you'll have two different uh packets full of elevations. So, here's the layout as it goes straight onto church. Uh, we don't feel like there's any problem with the landscaping that are being proposed. Uh, for the parking, they're proposing all the parking in front. Typically, this is something that we would like to see in the back, but the applicant that you'll see a little bit in a moment is providing a or requesting a modification to ask for parking to be in the front just because it's just so many few parking spaces. Um, we have some um one of the things that we know uh just based off of our history of as staff is that um self storage is very low water user. So they put in a water and sur allocation application for 117 gallons which is not a problem. Here is their layout plan. Here is their landscape plan which you can see is really robust.

They are trying to um make sure that there's tons of buffering between them and um any of the neighboring uh residential uh zone properties. This is really small but you have it much larger or as larger as it could be in your in your practice here. So, as we talk about elevations, so the one that starts off with a picture, you have two. So, the one that starts off with a picture, what the ve this one here, Dan, you're looking at the second one. Yeah. So, this one is the first one. This is the one that they first submitted.

So, by working with staff, we talked about the design preference manual. And so, just want to show you that um there were some things that definitely we think could change. Uh you can see this all uh more clearly and larger um in the stack report, but this was the original came to us with more of a metal kind of screening. The material that was going to be used, so it was all metal here with some a little bit of stone on the side. Um through working with the applique, there's been a lot of improvement we feel with more stone. Um and then there was also um I can show some other too. Here is just an example of their the office that they were proposing. Um, so once again, like I said, this was all metal and the stone and now we're just going

We backtrack real quick. This view would be from the intersection. So, um, the intersection I'm just talking about, you would get to the corner of the building. Um, this is the front elevation facing Cryer's Church. This would be better creek and this is what we face in the residential development across this across the way roadway. Next the next one is the elevation up of um the church through the main entrance of the building. That's where your park can be and um access to facility.

So once again um through working with staff the applicant has revised their elevations to incorporate more stone and brick. They eliminated that metal siding. They also added window blazing. And so um we feel that the what we have now is is a a nicer product than what we were than what we were hoping to to accomplish. So um according to the staff report there are the two different kind of things that um are sort of outstanding. One is that we want to make sure that the commission agrees with staff that that you feel that the new revised architecture and elevations that they're providing do in fact development design and preference manual. Um we as staff we do but it's just something that would come to you if there's anything additional that we were hoping to see here. In addition to that too we're [clears throat] asking because that parking in the front versus being parking in the back is in the design preference manual. That's a modification to the planning commission and not something that that you know can be done really administratively. In your staff report, it does talk about the fact of what you know what the standard is according to the design preference manual and then also the comment that city staff does not have a problem with this but we like I said that you're the ones who could grant the the modification. [clears throat] So we have some additional comments uh recommendations that go beyond what was in the staff report. Um first we would as we always say to address all outstanding city and county comments prior to the submission of signature set for myars but in addition to that we had a few more comments. I don't know if you want to address it or

so one of the one of the issues or things again staff is in favor of the amended elevations. We think it means the design preference manual. Different heights uh to the facades. We added more windows. The material change and to the material quickly. It's an ephus material, but the applicant is proposing a metal form of ephus. It looks the same, but it's more sturdy and um it's going to last longer. I'd rather have a better material, but the look is identical than you would see a man. still allows the etching and the design that you get in the panels, but um it could be a better product. We think it should be something that should be at least an option versus just your typical EAS type of material which you know wouldn't last as long. So, um so we didn't have issues with that. It talks about not allowing metal u besides but we've always taken that to be the metal standing scene type of the Morton buildings is that type of metal.

When you say that you can you just point it out so I understand what it is. So anywhere you see this this uh material that is actually metal that looks like the [clears throat] stuck light. Exactly. Gotcha. So the stone is still the stone veneer.

The stone veneer is still here, but this material and uh it could be either but we want to have they want them to have that option. I know I think the elevations came back to this ephus. The original ones had more of a metal ephus. Um, we talked to them that we were comfortable with the metal one as well because again it gives the same look and the ordinance does allow [clears throat] ozone preference allows them to use different materials that mimic similar to other things we want in this district the stone the ephus that type of you've seen the metal ephus so to speak and and you're comfortable with it that it is an attractive alternative.

Yes. Okay. And again, I it preserves better, it lasts longer, um, less maintenance. I have a question, not so much about the the design exterior, but how this thing functions. It looks extremely different and that's I'm just trying to be curious. Is this mostly residential focused? Because it doesn't seem like it's actually in there. So we'll have the applicant explain that uh if we can go back. So the other element too. So from that condition the front facade that main entrance that is the most visible from

can you go to that on the screen just so we're all on the same page here and maybe go to the site plan maybe the big one. But um [clears throat] so that front element you see that entrance is right here. You need this entrance right here. We're talking about Yeah. Can you pull that up on the screen? [clears throat] Is that not there? No, it's not that one. Keep going to the one you did the other elevation you had. This is that front entrance that that's right there that faces out to Yeah. Prior's Church. Go back to the site plan. [clears throat]

Uh we have a lot of landscaping. If you go to the landscaping one, uh the only true, you know, once the landscaping grows up, it's still going to be attractive, but you still have this uh clear visible uh view from the street. Uh staff was wondering if u if you follow these lines of sight if at least the stone element could be expanded to just make this a little bit more of an attractive front section entrance section. Um it kind of breaks up that long eus. Are you talking about like it looking more like this window section?

Let's go back to the front.

So instead of having ethus here that this provides more of that stone element kind of widing that because this is a very long facade and principally ethus and this is the most dominant view. We're just asking maybe that could be dressed up a little bit more because in my mind I was kind of thinking some of the windows would look nice, but you're thinking just a different material. If they can get more windows, absolutely. I just don't know what the interior space and how it functions is, but just trying to dress up that main view that you're going to see. Not doing the entire wall of stone, but just maybe expand extending that out just a little bit more to

Well, the southern elevation I think the southern elevation is very attractive, you know, the southern elevation. Um, but I tend to agree with you. I think that the the east east elevation I mean this part the as you walk in it looks good but I I do think it needs a little bit of something um on either end of the the main entrance. I I don't disagree with that. You're okay. We can work with the applicant on that element. [clears throat] And then this these elevations are much more attractive than the these other elevations. So I commend the applicant and staff for working together to kind of get in the right direction.

Yeah, they were very good to work with. These designs came back quickly to us when we talked to them. It was a good collaboration to get to where we are. Um but I do have a couple questions like chairs on. Well, real quick, we have um sidewalks for safe pedestrian access from all building exits. Staff has concerns that you have these exit doors out of the back of the building that just open up the grass. And the intent is when you have exit doors in case of emergency, provide a safe path to get to the public way. So staff is asking those sidewalk that must be provided. Um are there exit doors in the back of the building?

Yes. If you look at the site, you want to go to the site plan. It doesn't show what elevation. Okay. Yeah. Um, let's go to the site plan. It's right here. And here you have exit doors. They just come out to a concrete pad, but it doesn't direct them out to a public way. They can provide a sidewalk to here or another way that you're directing people. Emergency. Um, I I guess that question could be asked what these are for. I would assume these are emergency exits. Otherwise, I'm not sure what the purpose of M3 is not really accessing that building going from there.

I mean, I hear your point. I don't know whether I am as hung up on that, but that's just my initial gut reaction because it's emergency exit. So, when someone gets out of the building, they get out of the building. You know what I mean? Like I think it might be building, it might be code, but maybe somebody else will speak to that. My understand is when you're exiting for safety reasons, you have to provide safe access to a public way. Gotcha. And grasping if that's not the case, but that's what we're trying to accomplish. Okay.

Okay. And then the final one, uh, we talked about this the, um, signage for the building. The one concern we have when we go to that corner elevation. This [clears throat] is the one that will be up and facing residential development. We're asking that these not be internally illuminated. uh if they had goose lighting or other uplighting to the building wouldn't we wouldn't be opposed to that. Just the internal illumination staff concerned about some complaints you're going to get had this bright red glowing sign where the residenc is across the street and that report

does see is there residential on both those corners or it's residential development um across the street from me creek and then across from church is a residential property. It's a residential property that's right next to the the church facing the front. Yeah. They actually had to get a variance. So from distance to that residential development. Okay. So is residential on both sides of that. Okay. And we did bring that to I know it's late in the staff report, but I did talk to the about that concern.

Okay. Who who's [clears throat] here that can explain how this works? Okay, perfect. What's your question? How how does a person access this this self storage to use and is it primary focus, residential focus? Yeah, show that commercial. Yeah. Like how do you enter into the self storage? How the people unload because this is different than what's in Westminster.

Sure. So, so the main entrance is only for access to the office area. So to to the this the main parking area is open and free. There is one smaller access door here that would either be for walk-in type things. You could take anything big. You could take a hand car or carry boxes. Um but didn't allow you to to move anything large to be like a double swing. As you move to the the left or towards Meadow, could you speed up a little bit here? So, as you move to the left towards Meadow Creek, there's actually a fence. There's a gate here,

right, which would be a passcode gate and then there's a larger uh a larger staging area and and two larger uh entrances where you could take larger. This is going to be more geared toward residential like home storage. It's not going to be like for commercial use. The uh interior storage units are relatively small, a lot of small storage units. So it wouldn't be uh it would be more for like you know when you say small 5 by 10 that there's there's a bunch of varying sizes. There's some some larger ones that might be like 10 by 20. There's a bunch of smaller ones. So, if I'm going to visit your facility and dropping stuff off, you're telling me if I'm looking at at this plan, I I'm going to pull into this gate and there's a ingress egress door here.

There's two and here. Yeah. Yep. I see that right there. So, can you just give me a sense of what the interior of that building looks like? Is it a bunch of fallways with a bunch of cubes? A bunch of cubes. Cubes. Okay. It I I'm just curious like if I'm unloading stuff like Do you have like cards or like how does that work? You'll have to whatever you bring in, you'll have to provide your own way to card in there. There won't be as far as I know, there won't be anything available at the facility to borrow or use. You have So, like if I'm in the back corner of that, you got a long walk. You got a long walk. That's just the way it is.

That's the way it is now. And if you have a space that's interior in the back, you either have a car or you carry it. Yep. Okay. So, that's not something you guys provide or anything like that. I'm just curious because I haven't seen this. I personally experienced this myself. Yeah. Um, so that's just the way it works. Is this uh heated and cooled? Yeah. See, that's different. That's a little different here. That's a different product. Yeah. Is someone always I'm assuming you can only access it during the day or

if you I think these will be coded doors and coded gates. So, you can probably access at any time if you have the code uh signed to you. The office hours are only going to be like typical office hours. So, I don't think there can be a 24hour uh attendance. I'm sorry. I don't think there's going to be a 24hour. So, this area where the doors are and all that, that's just office space. That's just office space. Okay. So, I'm not taking my if I'm coming in with boxes, I'm not going into that taking my boxes through that. I'm just going in and sign the contract for the storage space and then I'm going into this door or this this door over here or one of those three doors. Yep.

And then what are the doors in the back? Are they just emergency exit? The doors the two doors on the far corners are just emergency um exits. Yes. Okay. [clears throat] Because I think you have to have a a way for someone to get out every 75 feet if I remember correctly. Yeah. I don't remember what the code is all the time. Okay. I think they need coup. I think it depends on what kind of space it is. I'm not thinking all is this a is this a franchise operation?

Uh they have they develop storage facilities similar to this plus the company. I guess you could call it franchise the name but smart is individual to this particular it's not explanation you be an engineer connected to you come back to those your recommendation So address all outstanding city and county comment prior to this dramatic I was providing improved elevation at the primary entrance to the facility offers church and I I I was comfortable for letting staff kind of navigate that suggested staff. Um and then any sign facing a residential zone shall not be totally eliminated. Um I think that's reasonable. Um what about the ensure sidewalks are installed for a different access from building exit? Um, if that isn't a code thing,

I'll let you know too if it's a code thing, they they will have to require shown on the plan. If you're comfortable not requiring it, it's not subject to code. Um, I'll leave that up. You have some kind of concrete path,

somebody could come out, they can walk. It just seems like just putting out a lot of extra concrete, putting a lot of extra concrete, which I'm not necessarily a fan of. So, my feeling is if it's not required by code, I'm okay with those two that entrance is just having that and the theory that, you know, there's a fire, someone's going to go out there and go right after they get out, do whatever they have to do.

So, do if if required by building code. Yeah. I guess [clears throat] I I think that is what I'm more comfortable with. Does anyone else have any other questions? I move that planning exam commission conditionally approve uh the site development plan S240020 meadow creek self storage uh with a modification to allow parking in front of the building. We did not really discuss that. And before I make a motion, I just want to address you asked us about the parking and and just to check in with everybody here. I'm by the parking being in front of the building. It makes complete sense in this case. So I think planning zoning commission everybody that

let me go back. Okay. Now I will move that the planning commission conditionally approved site plan site development plan S240020 creek self storage with a modification to allow parking in front of the building pursuant to zoning ordinance article 25 and based on the October 21st 2025 S240020 staff report well as uh and conditions as modified uh as shown on the screen. Those four items right there, which I'm going to read out since it's not in the staff report. Address all outstanding city and county comments prior to submission of signature set myars. Provide a improved uh elevations at the primary ele entrance to the facility off of Crider Church Road. um to ensure sidewalks are installed for safe pedestrian access from the rear exterior rear building exits if required by code. If not required by code, planning zoning is fine without without them. And then also any signage facing a residential zone shall not be internally illuminated. So with those four conditions as I just stated um that's by motion motion. made second. Motion made and seconded to approve the site plan subject to the staff report and recommendations. Are there any questions or concerns? All in favor say I.

I have Mr. Would it be all right if we take a five minute break? Sorry.

Right everybody with that. All right. So we're we're still in public hearing on this. So we never close the record. So this is still forever public hearing. So um at this point in time we're still in the question and answer mode. So Mr. Oh, excuse me. I'm sorry.

Wro development plan amendment DP 2401 parallel WX. So, we still have we do have some some people that want to make comments yet. So, those are those are all us, I think. Yes, that's all. I think that's all you guys. So, that was from the last time. So, there's nobody's name on this list that wasn't here as here tonight. Yes, that is correct. We've returned with the same the same team so that we can answer any additional questions that you have. I think No, I do have

Okay. All right. Now that I'm totally confused, now I feel better. [laughter] Can I start off? I'll introduce myself real quick for the record. Kelly Schaefer Miller, 73 East Main Street, Westminster, Maryland 21157. We are here to continue the sharing that was last month. We are not going to regurgitate all of the information that we shared with you last month. Um, we trust that you have all of the documents that we provided last month and had some time to review those. Um just very briefly recall that last month what we did is we walked through the subsections of 164 188J to show you that um all of our to to provide evidence and testimony that we meet the requirements of those subsections. And I believe, not to preempt any of your questions, but I believed that subsection three uh which states that the proposed vehicular and pedestrian circulation systems are adequate and efficient. There needed to be some additional review to updated traffic information that was provided. So, we anticipate that there might be some questions now that you've had more chance to review that for tonight. But again for that the subsection that we are addressing as part of the amended development plan is whether the proposed vehicular and pedestrian safety vision systems are adequate and efficient. That is subsection three of 164 188J. And I think you all are very well aware of this, but I would point out that if and when this amended development plan is approved, there will still need to be a subdivision plan that's processed and reviewed and approved by this commission. And part of that process we anticipate will be a full review of a traffic impact analysis that is provided for the subdivision. So, while we have done one of those to show you that we meet that subsection 3 of 164 188J uh

for this hearing, don't think that that that this is the only review of that traffic information because that will be fully reviewed by staff and by this commission as part of any forthcoming subdivision plan process. Um, so I just want to make that clear and we do have everybody that was here last month with us again, Marty Hackit, Richard Crest, Joe Rudder, and Mike Lenheart. Um, so we are happy to answer any additional questions that you have related to the plan or any of the evidence that last month. Thank you. Okay, Mr. Huff, have you had some questions? [clears throat]

I do. Um, I just want to clarify a couple things to make sure I'm understanding. First off for staff. So process-wise, planning and zoning is going to make a recommendation tonight one way or the other on this plan. It then goes the mayor common council to make a decision uh regarding the density and and the overall plan. But does M Miller was saying does that then come back here for fine tuning or no? A preliminary plan. Well, so once whatever recommendation you make tonight, um the planning commission attorney drafts a recommendation letter for the planning and zoning commission. Um and that would come back to the planning zoning commission if if a decision is made tonight. I would come back uh hopefully next month for you to bless the letter of recommendation to the Mar County Council as to what you're what you recommend and whether you feel it complies with the requirements of the ordinance and then that would there that would then go to Mayor County Council. Mayor County council would have final approval of the development plan. They can take your recommendation. they can recommendation and whatever happens after that if they approve density on this partial W um whether it follows the planning commission's recommendation or follows a different recommendation or different approval by Mar County Council if density is applied this is just applying that density to partial W they would then have to come back with a preliminary subdivision plan to be approved by the uh planning and zoning commission just like we just had a plary subdivision plan tonight and

and we'll get staff traffic study again. It'll be a more detailed traffic study that also the county reviews because you have Bell Road and they're the ones who are controlling access to this development. So, they're going to look at site distance and and traffic there as well. Um and then following that you would have your subdivision plans that would also come back to the planning zoning commission.

That's what I wanted to get clarity on. So depending [clears throat] on what happens on the mayor and county council level, it potentially is coming back here for because it could be the mayor and county council says x number of lots instead of whatever the planning and zoning commission makes. Um and so one way or the other potentially it's coming back here again. Okay. I I want to ask a couple other questions. Uh and and this I guess is of staff. Having reviewed now because originally it was the 2022 traffic study. Having looked at the 2025, I just want to make sure I'm interpreting what I'm reviewing correctly. But when I looked through that traffic study, I did not see anything in there that gave me calls that the existence of of in theory 35 lots on this property is suddenly going to somehow blow off the area and make traffic horrible and all those things. I'm saying it simplistically,

but is my interpret because you read traffic studies for far more often than I do. I didn't see anything that traffic study that gave me pause. Am I correct or am I missing something? You're correct. I didn't see anything that gave me pause. Um, and at the preliminary subdivision plan and we get more in depth uh with the county review, if there is mitigation necessary at the preliminary subdivision plan, we can see necessary improvements. But for this project and what was submitted, there was nothing in that traffic study both of the 25 or 35 that I felt or that I saw was concerning.

Okay. Then the other questions that I have are related to the open space that I guess is a combination of the applicant and staff to get a better feel for is the open first off I guess the question is related to parcel X the open space that's supposedly being conveyed village is the intent is that coming back to the city right in one of the attachments of the letter from Carolan Village that they are amendable to having it dedicated to the city if the city wants it or if the city doesn't then it would be dedicated to Carol Village. So my my take of that letter and we can work with Carol Village with the preliminary subdivision plan

um that they again are amenable to it being dedicated to the city. Okay. And then the other open space that is on parson W that would be the residue of the 35 lots what's left over from the 35 lots that will be coming to the city. Is that correct? The applicant offered that to the city and city park and ref director Ruber was very happy to accept the addition space exception in the like the area that would stay with the developer through HOA. Yes, correct. That would be responsible. Exactly.

Okay. The other thing I want to be clear on is the trails. You know, all this open space is part of what makes quite frankly my humble opinion the subdivision of this into 35 lots more palatable to me [clears throat] is I I want clarity on, you know, some of these trails. There's some new trails being built. Okay, that's going to be built by the applicant. What I want a clear understanding of is the existing trails before they're turning it over to Carol Luther Village or they're turning it over to the city. I I want clarity on what the what's happening with those existing trails because if those existing trails some of those trails are not in very good shape. So I I need clarity I guess from staff or applicant. What is the intent there? Are those trails going to be, you know, upgraded or not upgraded but repaired as necessary or redone before they're turned over? Cuz it's kind of like, you know, hey, you hand me an open space parcel, you know, once you handle open space parcel over to the city or whether you hand it over to Carol Village, they then become responsible for maintaining that.

Yes. And what my point is is what kind of condition because if you're handing me that if you're handing Carol Luther Village or the city those open spaces but nothing has been done with that that's not great. So can I have clarity on how that works or or how that's going to work? Yeah. Can [laughter] I give you my thoughts after the applicant because that is the additional condition that we'll be talking about. Yeah. All the open space um that's proposed is has like you said some existing trails which are are basically existing golf cart paths. Yes.

Uh and some of them not in great shape. Some of them are broken up. We are adding some new ones

uh that are going to obviously tie the existing into our subdivision plus tie some new ones into other aspects of the city's park. Um, and then actually going through and repairing the car pads. I call them car pads, but the the pathways themselves that that plan. So when it was done, basically the project's done between the parcel on that was either going to go to the city or Carol Village or all the other open space. Those car pads are going to basically be refurbished or constructed new. Okay, that's what I want.

Okay, that's what I want to get clarity on is as part of the development of this. Yeah, that that these paths are going to be the ones that are needed to be repaired and all that are going to get repaired before they're turned over either to the city or Carol Village.

Correct. that that I think is helpful and I think is beneficial for the planning and zoning commission to know as well as when it goes to the mayor common council level because you know there might be consternation on the number of lots that are being approved here and and the more that that there's other positive things that are happening with open space and and all of that I think that's all ties into the desiraability of this project happening. So thank you for providing that clarity and that that you are glad to hear this as well.

We have an additional condition that was one of them to ensure that the they're developing both the paths and repairing or doing improvements to existing. The other element too that we want to make sure was brought up by the planning zoning commission uh last month is when they're built, we want to ensure that they're built along with the development that other words use and occupancy should not be granted to an adjacent residence unless the pathways in because as we all know once people are living there trying to come between houses and it's difficult to get the path that is even though as it is it just makes it more difficult. So as it does develop out uh we'd like to see them and the applicant I think commented on that last time as well. Um, so not a surprise, but we just want to make sure.

So you're talking about the ones that the one that's between 22 and 23 and 15 and 16 and nine and eight are nine and 10. I'm sorry. Y that it's the ones within the developing in the correct. Yeah, you want all that. You want that clear that those are all done as everything's being constructed because because I totally agree with you because when someone buys something that's already there, it's harder for them. When it's there, they try to put it in afterwards. Yes. Um really you probably want

the other ones that are out in that other parcel at portional level as you're releasing lots or something like that, right? To bring it along not save it all to the end. I have a a question about storm water management. So how is this going to work uh with the [clears throat] storm water management and the pond and what kind of facilities will it be?

The main the main facility will be a quantity management facility. Um and then we'll have microbio areas which are going to be facilities that are shallower with with aquatic landscaping and stuff like that. Um they'll be throughout as well through the community. Um most of most of them are proposing to the rear of the lots. Um that kind of thing. So it is a wet pond. No, there might be wet ponds. So it won't it won't have like a chain length fence around it. Well, if

I mean I think that if you have to do it, you have to do it. But I think the it should it should fit the the atmosphere of the park. It should fit in. I don't know what that looks like, but I know what what it should look like. You don't have to put if we're required to put a fence around the main quantity facility. I mean, there's other types fences we could put around. I just think it should be an effort made to make sure that it meets the spirit intent of the park setting.

Well, yeah. I mean obviously the the wet wet ponds now nowadays are very difficult to actually try to even achieve get approval through the state and everything else because of thermal pollutions [clears throat] and some of things on stream systems. Um but this this will be a you know a facility that'll basically be water in 24 to 48 hours um is the way it's set up. Um the other ones are much smaller facilities and they're they're foot.

I mean, I'm just excited about it. You know, in it because it's right it is close proximities for the new new facility that's out there in the parking lot. People are going to see some of it. What we did do was we years ago we reserved some ease for storm water that was closer more adjacent to the parking lot and the building that are [clears throat] down there. Um, since we took the whole development and shifted it up, I noticed that we shifted the storm water facility up as well to get it further away from the facility.

So, the intention is that storm water management easement that's currently on parcel Y is going to disappear. We're going to revise it to fit the program that we're designing now, knowing that that facility is still going to be in an open space area, but it's all maintained and owned by the city anyway. So, we can we can amend the plaque that gets rid of the easement on it. It doesn't really matter because the city controls it all. That's right. Well, no, but there's no need for the easement on on Y anymore because the easement's going to be on taken be a portion. I mean they we pushed it up onto the property as far as we could but not sitting down where it was.

So we haven't done all the engineering to confirm that you can keep everything off of That's correct. But we've certainly pushed it as far away as possible but your intent is to try to keep it all. Correct. Is that what you're saying? So we can modify that existing easement make it smaller on that side. I think we're going to have to propose an easement where the facility is physically going to be on some of the open space that we're conveying to the city. And Marty, if this development plan is approved and we come back for subdivision, will that be a more accurate picture at that point in time?

Oh, yes. And then [laughter] Mr. packet. This is just a comment um as I'm nitpicky, but um when it comes to to placement of housing and stuff like that, um the only comment I'll make and I know that you if you're coming, you'll end up coming back, but um like for instance, if you've looked at the plan you guys submitted like and I think I made a comment last time like where the house is located on 27th and then where it's located on 28. Obviously, you want some variation. Do you know what I mean? But it just is kind of jarring because the one on 28 sits back a lot more. So I would just encourage that when you're coming back through, you know, cuz I know you don't want everything lined up perfectly. That doesn't look right. But you also don't want it feeling so jarring that you go, you know, once here and once here what size homes are built.

The lots are pie shaped. Obviously, if they try to put a larger house on it pushes the pushes it back into um but we serve through the building.

Yeah. On parcel acts besides the own park pass that will be the purest. I think I asked this for I don't remember two large ponds and maybe a small pond. Are they going to still be ponds when this is over? Yes. Our plan is not to do anything. The people I'm sure are using the fish or whatever they want.

Yeah. And they're not in now. I don't know why they need to be fenced in later. All the other facilities somewhere somewhere. Did you have your recommendations different than what's in the report? Yeah, it's interesting. Bring up some more management. Yeah, let's get to that.

So, this is from last time. So, again, I'll read through them. That staff recommends obtaining zoning commission review development plan amendment DP 2401 partial W and partial X and provide a recommendation to forward to the mayor common council subject to the following conditions. One, provide the amount of open space for the Wakefield Valley portion of general plan or DP2401. uh engine and I talked about this. I do I want a clear global picture of total open space and how it's been updated not just for this one but for the entire development plan. I know that's a topic and we've done that pretty consistently with the other development plans. Um compliance with landscape manual additional landscaping may be required as DP 2401 proceeds to the development plan amendments and preliminary subdivision process if applicable or required by the commission. The third one, compliance with parking. Um, Bruce, come I'm striking that one. It did provide a designation under the uh uh detail of each uh of each uh of the parcel of the lot showing compliance tracking and we'll look at more of that for the preliminary plan. I think it's necessary at this stage of the plan. Uh, compliance with the 2016 development design preference manual on architectural standards outline DP 2401 public hearing staff report. Additional design preferences and architectural standards may be required as DP 2401 proceeds through the development plan amendment and plary subdivision process if applicable or required by the commission. Five, demonstrate the water remains available for the me memorandum of understanding between the city and Richard Crest dated June 2nd, 2014 and amended May 1st, 2015 and August 15, 2017 for the development of DP2401. Six, no additional water shall be

provided by the city of Westminster for DP241. Seven all address all remaining city of Westminster comments and the added ones which were actually talked about tonight. Abandon the stormwater management easement on city property. Um maybe that's expanded to um abandonment of the stormwater management management easement um following further review at the preliminary stage. They need a portion of it. The hope would be they could provide all storm management on parcel W by banning this this easement that was intended for parcel W development. The city recaptures usable open space that isn't subject to a storm advantage easement.

So basically what we're trying to say is the unused portion of the easement once developed would be abandoned.

Banding if they use a portion of the hope is they don't. But they do the hope it's minimal and the easement is then revised to reflect the revi the amendments to the financial plan. Um fix all new trails and all existing trails approved per the city um for partial X and W by the developer and open to the public. Open to the public. There's that obviously the open space that the city owns or the city would own if we get partial um X and the additional 17 acres of open space that'll be public access. It's the trails on the development of the 35 lots. We want to ensure that there's a public access easement. The public can also access those trails to further connect the system. um and install a sidewalk along Bell Road, a county, this is the county roadway by the developer. This plan doesn't really show that connection. We brought it up before, but we want to make sure that the sidewalk is along the right of way of Bell.

Are you talking about So, you're talking about a sidewalk along this just this portion of because there's not a huge portion along Bell, right? Yes. Okay. uh if we have a development just to the west that's on the heels of this that they'll also add a sidewalk connecting these properties to the existing sidewalk further west. So it just be a continuation of sidewalks along Bell Road connecting existing. Okay. You're going to leave that off.

Okay. So basically, if I'm looking at the staff report, your recommendations of you have recommendations 1 through seven, you are now suggesting deleting three. Yes. Which is compliance with all street parking requirements of the zoning ordinance and adding those three in red on the screen. Yes.

Okay. What's the close. Oh, yes. [clears throat] Thank you. I appreciate that. All right. Um, any further comments by No one else. Okay. All right. At this point in time, we'll close the public hearing and uh go into deliberations on the question. Okay. Now that we completely straightened things out now, Mr. One Okay, we need someone to make a motion. So,

okay. Um, I will make a motion that the planning and zoning commission um recommend. Where's the potential motion? You have that on the we provide a recommendation at the last page. The very last page that

um I'll make a motion that planning and zoning commission recommend recommend approval of the Wakefield Valley um development plan amendment DP 2401 parcel W and parcel X. um recommend approval to the mayor and common council. uh with the seven conditions minus condition number three in the staff report plus the three conditions shown on red on the screen which I will read as modified um is that the storm water management easement on parcel Y that is unused by the developer will be abandoned that easement uh that all uh new trails and all existing trails uh will be um constructed and improved per the city on parcel X and Y by the developer and open to the public and also the installation of sidewalks along Bell Road um which is a county roadway by the developer. So there is now going to be a total of nine conditions, [clears throat] six of which are in the staff report plus these three that are being shown on the screen as I modify them by reading out loud. That is my long motion.

Okay. Motion been made. Second motion second. Motion been made and second. Any questions or comments? Well, can we discuss a little bit um just for the sake of of the record, how does the planning commission, because we made [clears throat] the motion for the purpose of discussion. How does the planning commission feel regarding the number of lots shown? Are you comfortable with 35 lots on this property? Yes,

that's what the proposal is. No, I I know, but we can make a different recommendation. We put a recommendation on the table right now. Made a motion. I just want to get a will of the planning and zoning commission of how he feels about the number of lots. Looks good. Yeah. I think they've tried a lot of other uses for this property and nothing really popped out of the trees and city. So, all different levels. The

other thing I'll say is you go back and look at the history of this property. There was a difference in the past that the developer wanted X lots and the city wanted X. And believe it or not, this is right about in the middle. This is a really good compromise for this property. this covers a number of lots and it's been accept if if this wasn't if this didn't make sense knowing the area out there as well as I do this room would be jammed with people and they'd be in the hallway. I think this is a a really good use of this property. It's going to be high, it's going to be high-end, but more importantly, it's going to add a lot to the city's ecosystem and kind of like enhance the the uh all the work that's being done by the city right now. I think this is really a a really good addition to the city.

Okay. I don't That's my opinion. No, I I mean I I like the idea that in some ways with this piece being developed into the 35 lots, you know, the now there's additional open space is getting improved that's being incorporated as part of the kind of finishes things out because otherwise if if this doesn't move forward then this is just sitting out there and you know for however long eventually something has to happen here is my So this gets done and there's one more piece to get done and that's pretty much the extent of development of Wakefield. So the rest of it's going to be the park, what exists there

and I think it's I think people in the community really appreciate the park. They appreciate that area. Yeah. [clears throat] And we have had so little public there hasn't been additional. No, we've had no additional since the last public. Okay. If you'd have done this 10 years ago, you would have had hundreds of people. [clears throat] But

well, we need and and just to speak to say this, I we need more housing. Now, admittedly, I don't know that this does anything to solve the affordability housing uh issue, but um you know, because of the price, but but we do need more hous. Okay. All right. So, you're comfortable? Well, yeah. I just wanted to I just wanted to confirm where everybody was.

I agree with All right. So, we have a motion and a second. We have a motion pending and a second. Uh, no further questions. We'll call this to a vote. All in favor say I. I notice it. This recommendation will go on to the well, it'll come back next month for us to address the written decision, right? Which will pretty much incorporate the findings and all that stuff plus our recommendations. They'll go to American Council. They'll have a public hearing and then once they make a decision, then it'll come back to us in a preliminary plan and final class. So, we're going to see this a lot.

Yeah. Mr. Deo, just for our our b collective [clears throat] benefit. So, when it goes to the mayor and common council, um it it's a public hearing. Is that correct? Yes. Yes. Advertise a public hearing as we did for this. Does the mayor and common council necessarily make a decision that night or is it presented and then it comes back or or it can be the same thing that happened here can be continued depending on what the level of questions are and all of that. Exactly. They can hold the public hearing, close it, and then then come back later for final decision. They could keep the record open. Uh similar to what was done. Okay. It's not like a ordinance where it's introduced and then it comes back for Yeah. adoption. Okay.

Okay. So that Yes. So, so hopefully we'll get that before the next meeting so we have a chance to read it before the meeting and then Yes, sir. Okay, fantastic. Thank you. When is our next meeting just for clarity? What? November because we have Thanksgiving coming up. November 17th. It's the 20th, right? The third [clears throat] Thursday, right? Yeah. So the third just to clarity it would be November 20th. That's right.

Which is not the week of Thanksgiving. So we don't have any issue there. Okay. Okay. So next is hi. Thanks for saying all of my updates are coming from Claire Stewart. Y Thursday. They apparently don't want to say anything.

Okay. So, um yeah, these are all coming from Claire Stewart. If you have any questions about any of these updates, um you know where to find her. So, ordering sewer um spring 2025 amendment um is being reviewed by MDE for approval. Uh this amendment includes Hamstead, Tony Town, Union Bridge, and New Windsor. Uh fall 25, sorry, fall 2025 amendments include Mount Ary, Tony Town, and Freedom. It's scheduled for certification by MU municipal planning zoning commissions on October 27th and the county planning and zoning commission on November 18th. Um text amendments. Uh board of county commissioners sent zoning text amendments to the planning and zoning commission for their review and recommendation. Um topics include the adequate public facilities ordinance and use off the premises signs commission will begin and continue their discussions throughout October. So um master plan updates uh the master plan work groups on housing economy and a agriculture um met over the summer. They made their recommendations to planning and zoning commission. Um staff from the planning division provided an overview from each workg groupoup's meeting during the planning and zoning commission meeting held on October 1st. On November 5th, the workg groupoup reports will be shared with the commission. After receiving the workg groupoup reports, the planning and zoning commission will consider them as part of a broader effort to review, update, and recommend changes to the county master

plan. There will be many opportunities for the public to give feedback throughout this process, which is expected to continue through 2026. So, when is when when is the hope that the master new master plan for the county will be approved? Um it it won't be until at least next year till 2026. Yeah. But when in 2026

I mean it's it's tough to do estimations right now just because we um have finished this um you know these work groups and we're getting recommendations. We're reviewing the recommendations and so then amendments will begin. Um, so I So it could drag on could in theory it drag on through the end of 2026 or not? It it could. Yeah, I'm asking that. I would say I would say it could it could drag. Well, obviously the only reason I'm like kind of asking you a little bit about that

is because obviously there's election in 2026. So you you know it could be problematic if you're all those through a master plan and then it's not passed and then you get a whole you you get new members of the commission. You might not u because I don't think anyone is turned out. No, no one's going to be turned out. Um, but that could be problematic because you could be dealing with a whole, you know, in theory you could be dealing with new commissioners that, you know, that are being asked to approve a plan that is almost the finish line but not quite. Yeah, that's a really good point.

Yeah, I was curious. It's it's really hard for us to pin down a specific um or even time frame, but the time that is what they're saying right now. um just because we're we're building through the process but um you know it's still in the the recommendations period and then there will be um you know we have to get feedback from commission from commissioners on those recommendations from those reports. We're also having um you know interjurisdictional like well we're having like um meetings between um basically everyone from the county

once you come out then once you guys come out with a draft master plan it could be the city of Westminster has comments regarding exactly the portion that relates to the city.

Exactly. So yeah exactly the sort of interjurisdictional thing. So it's really um a matter of I think they're taking this like the recommendations pretty seriously. there was a lot of recommendations from each of the work groups. Um so it's been a matter of uh compiling those recommendations from these workg groupoup sessions. um finding commonalities and conflicts between those recommendations from these different work groups because they do have some conflicting um let's say needs and um priorities between the three different groups of agriculture, economy, and housing. Um, so that's kind of the process right now is we're compiling those recommendations and then um reporting them and then we're going to get feedback from the commission and then Yeah.

Can I asked you one thing in relation to housing?

Um, so far through the process, is there any because the freedom areas, you know, doesn't have a lot of area left to be developed. Uh, you know, I know when I was on the planning and zoning commission, some of those big pieces were I'm assuming that some of them are through or going through. Um, but the size of municipalities, there's not really a lot of land that the county has that is going to do anything to really increase, you know, density within the county. So, is the county looking at like what they do to help increase housing within the county or are they going to help partner more with the municipalities to try to help the municipalities grow to do housing? Or am I asking you a load of question you're just not prepared to answer tonight? It's it's it's a tough question to answer right now because I I would recommend um when these when the reports are made public for of the for the housing work group, I would recommend looking through the recommendations from the housing work group because that's what we're going to be basically going off of. Um and well, amongst other things, but there's quite a few recommendations directly related to what you're asking, but I I don't I'm not really

they're not been okay. They're not public. something that when it does get released, is that something you can share with because I I personally as a member of our planning and zoning commission, I am curious what the housing work group in the county what their recommendations are and how that interplays with us as a municipality. Absolutely. because, [clears throat] you know, housing is a critical issue throughout the state and I'm just kind of curious, you know, [clears throat] how that's going to play out.

Yeah, I I'm it will be public um when those reports come out, which is on November 5th. Um I don't know if we're we're this isn't meeting this um Westminster Planning Commission isn't meeting until after then. Correct. Yeah. would not for 20. I I guess I was just wondering if it would be helpful for me to bring you a copy or something, but it would Well, if you could email if if you guys get it, then you could send it to us. We can send it out to the whole planning commission. Okay. Yeah.

I I'm just speaking for myself as a member of our planning commission. Curious about what the county is thinking related to housing and that how that interplays with us. And then I would also say I'm curious about a I'm not listen I love a I come from a farming family but the from a city of Westminster standpoint doesn't have much to do do with us but economic development does well egg can egg preservation if it's just outside the city growth boundaries very valid point yes that does expand even further beyond so could affect and this was brought up

by commissioner beaver heard a discuss we had about um the growth boundary and limit not limiting us to maybe further expand that. We need to be paying attention to this stuff as it's working its way through but of how it interplays with what everyone that potentially affect. That's a very good point and I remember now that you say that Mr. Beaver did bring. Yeah. So, okay. I will email those reports out once they're made public. Great. Thank you. And we'll have a test because I know how much you guys love reaching stuff there.

You're right on the top of my pile. It's kind of a one time thing though. West surrounds area in between hasn't been looked at for 40 years probably. It's coming. So, we are coming up. So, when is there a master plan due? 2027. Yeah. Okay. So, on the heels of this, we're going to start working. My term isn't up to 29. So, just a joke. All right. Any anything further?

Um, that is everything. Do you have any other questions? Staff, you have anything else? I do. Um, we got an email from Daffhne daily just thanking the folks who were able to come to that planning commission meeting just saying thank you and that your input was really helpful and so she wanted to relay that message to you.

Oh, thank you. Um, also just want to let you know, um, our annexation, um, sorry, our annexation 89, which is, uh, 531 Old West and Strike, that's going to be coming before you guys, uh, next meeting for, uh, a public hearing that went to, so it was already introduced to mayor and county council. We're in the 60-day review period with the county. And so that is um, went today before the planning commission for Carol County and is going on Thursday to the board of county commissioners. That's good. Where is 531 Westminster 5? Um, it is right next to like the old Coca-Cola building. So, up front was 535. We've already annexed that.

We just recently annexed that about a year ago. And this is the um condominium property right behind it. They've had two new users come in that needed additional water. So, um that is what we're doing. So yeah, I'll be at the 40 county commissioners meeting on Thursday to try and help answer any questions. I mean, I would imagine that's a very straightforward one. I don't know. They had a question. The planning commission had a question today about why it's a condominium and it's a form of ownership. Yeah, it just is. I mean, that's

that would have been my you know, it's it's an allowed you, you know, it's allowed for nothing to do with. So that was what and the u so the attorney answered that I but that was the because I heard that there was a question I'm like what inquiry would they have about this and they said they wanted to know why it's con video and I was like it's existed it's okay [laughter] what Thursday will bring but I will be there to try and help any answer any okay all right I don't think anyone can unwind the condo regime at this point now Yeah, it's all right. So, ready to adjourn. Okay, go ahead.

No, you Well, I was just wanted to say that the uh think of that that Wakefield development in the trails made me think about what wasn't anticipated when the old Wakefield was built was access from the streets to the golf course because it was a golf course. But now that it's walking trails, it's kind of a pain because you have to get permission from your neighbor. You know, you may not know to somehow get down to the golf course rather than You mean the old in the old part? In the old part. Yeah. But I would just keep it in mind if any opportunity would present itself

where somebody from other places to be able to inter you can walk a long ways. Now when they built the piece Aenddale Run I guess it was called closer to 31 where there's open space in between where they plant a lot of trees there was there were two slots built there

where golf course golf or path because at one point they were maybe going to have golf holes in that center area but those paths were never paved and and I I don't know if you could do it without getting a big brewhaha putting you know, a path in there to help get those people down to the uh to the core to the trails or not because those people haven't had public, you know, traffic through there for years, but uh I just thought I'd mention it and those are two that if you can open up that would help some people in that area, but everywhere in the old way. But Kevin, you know, I I think um Wakefield has become a real asset to the community and I frankly, you know, I live in downtown. I love where I live, so I'm not moving, but um the desiraability of living near the park now. I mean, it's just awesome. You know what I mean? Like I I have a friend, a good friend who lives there. He has a dog. I I think he takes the dog out on the trail every day.

Yeah, there was they're out there. They playing ponds. I thought I was running ponds. But there was so much precidation about But I do have to go through my neighbor's yard going there because I'm not driving all the way around. When the golf course changed, there was a lot of people really concerned about what the future was going to be. And some of the original proposals did not go over very well. It's like a just park amphitheater. But nevertheless, what's [laughter] people really like it? Yeah.

And all the worry about property value dropping. I don't think that's the case at all. I do not get not against trees, but I hope they don't plant too many trees because it's going to be, you know, right 50 to 75 acres of natural. It needs a majority. I and I I might be speaking out of turn because I'm I'm not a expert, but I I think a lot of the planting that is was going to be done has been done because a lot of that had to do with water quality along the street like so I think but I know when you're walking trails dark or whatever sometimes you're in the woods it's just a little bit scary for some people. Yeah, true. To be out there rather than being out in the open.

But it's it is awesome. It's a awesome asset for the city and for people that that live nearby. And I do think it's a very valid point that this project that's that was in front of us tonight actually coming about is great because it helps finish things out. Yeah. Um the additional open space and having those trails done the next section on the other side. Hopefully they'll have access to the will they have access with the way that the trails act over on the other side. They can. Yeah, we'll be looking at that. Yeah. Okay. I think at least you can take care. But like I said, otherwise you have to look for

that that other property that other property butts up against what was old soft. So I don't think it's going to be very similar to this. There was a there was there were bushes in that area. That was a pasture. That's right. But then there was part of it probably might still be there because the entrance to the park will end up getting redone at that time. Am I correct? Am I remembering that correctly? Or that old piece or not? That's the access to the park today. It'll it'll be improved for the portion the subdivision of the subdivision, but then it'll still revert back to No. Yeah, but I but it kind of plays off of the entrance.

It move it a little moves a little bit away from the house, the old house. It seemed like I remembered something like that. It the old actress comes up. It kind of ses, you know, s's up to the bell. Yeah. Um so those older buildings will be demoed. Um but the access driveways to the existing houses won't be touched. Uh that that is private up to I mean where where the old road now goes on bel slid a little bit towards Yeah. I mean towards Uniontown. It'll be shifted a little bit more to the east.

Yeah. Not much, but a little [laughter]

Just make sure I get this in. I know exact I um I misspoke really. I misheard um the motion and I didn't have it up yet because I wasn't connected. So 3305 of the general provisions article of the annotated code is what we are conditioned to site whenever we go into close session for legal reasons. What I missed is what Mr. Barber had done is cited 3306C2 as a as the law that requires you to put this notice in your minutes or your agenda, I'm sorry. And so he was correct. It is 3306 C2.

Okay. Um the correct citation was noted later 3305B7. So, is there anything technical we need to do? We're just for the record.

Exactly. Got it. Well, thank you. That was my confession. You're resolution. Got it. All right. So, let's move to journ. Move to adjourn. Sounds good to me.