Westminster Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

Okay.

So tonight's going to be a little bit different for planning commission to start. The acting chair of our planning commission, Lindy McNulty, is not here tonight. So our policies and procedures require us to hold an election for who's going to be our chair tonight. um we'll take nominations and any nomination then we'll need a second and vote on that um will there be any nominations so i will go ahead and nominate robert whack he used to be council president i'm sure he's used to running a meeting so i will make that motion would you accept that if he accepts i second Does anybody else want to?

Yeah, throw their hat in the ring. Everybody go come rushing in.

Okay, so all those in favor, everybody else. Aye. Congratulations. Dr. Watts, you will be our chair for the day. Have they some, just kind of to help us say, just since I finished for this, First time.

Oh, you went, okay. We got a script.

Feel free.

I hereby call the meeting to order at 6.01 p.m. Well, I'm not the acting chair. For the day. For the day. I'm the acting chair for the summer whack. Can everyone please introduce yourself? Mr. Hoff.

My name is Dan Hoff and I'm the ex-officio

Dionne Bigpage. Paris Halbert.

Jay Boyd.

Thank you, Commissioner Numbers. Do we do the audience too, since they're such a small group? Or staff?

Well, I just wanted to take a second because I forgot to say something, but I wanted to take the opportunity to welcome Paris. She is our new alternate for the Planning Commission. Tiambe has now been moved to a full member, and we would like to thank Kevin Beaver. He is no longer on our Planning Commission, but he did 20-plus years of service on our Planning Commission. I just wanted to thank him for that. But Paris is...

and that was a decision by kevin i don't think he wasn't welcome kevin had put plenty of time in and he was happy to step down yes so just to be clear i had conversations with kevin the his feeling is he had done it for a long time um i even tried to convince him to maybe consider uh going to the bca and he was like you know what i'm done thank you very much So, but he sends his regards. And we very much appreciate his service.

Mark Tipa, the Director of Community Planning and Development.

I'm Andrea Gerhardt, and I am the Senior Planner.

And Meredith McKinnon, Counsel for the Board.

Doug Barber, the City Clerk.

There you go. All right, first item of old business is the site development plan S-25006, 404 Mountain Drive Medical Center Architectural Review. Andrea Gerhardt will be providing the staff report.

I will. So just to remind everybody, we're here tonight to talk about a project. It is a 404 Malibu. These are two buildings, one's a 22,000 square foot medical office building. And on the backside is a 12,000 square foot school. When we first saw this back in December, we did not know if it was gonna be a daycare or a school. We also didn't know if it would potentially go forward as just flat out office as well. So they have moved forward. It is going to be a school. They do have someone who has signed a loan to be the occupant of the building as well. So the use tonight is not what we're talking about. The site plan has approval. There were some conditions, and the conditions were as follows. That apply here tonight was talking about the architecture. At the time, you'll see... This is what was originally submitted to us. As we talked about in the meeting back in December, we didn't feel as if at this time that it met elements of the design preference manual, the different types of materials, the different roof heights, and didn't feel that Is there anything else that you want to say?

It was more the material that they were proposing, stamped concrete that was painted. We've never allowed that type of architectural elevation to the city, and it doesn't meet design preference manual, which requires a mix of these types of material types.

There were also the use of form liners as well. In this case, I believe they were just... It's all of the ones, but they were just, there was not, like you said, there was not a great variety of it. So after we talked, we did get some new architectural renderings from them. Now, the difference with this is that at the time it still had stamp concrete. It did have form liners where it looked like the wood, but they were not of the, it was not a wood composite or a wood material. It was just the different types of form liners. So as we worked through, I just kind of did a regression.

facade that's painted.

To make it look like something else. So they just slide it in in different places. So this was what we originally were working with. It did show that these were form liners and that these were stamped. Now we did feel like at this point they provided a little bit more information to us. This is after they did move forward. Oh, sorry. So this was another set of revised drawings that we got. They now were talking about they were going to do a synthetic brick on the back, and we didn't know what that was. But they did move forward with real brick. They moved forward with a wood composite. And then moving forward, so here is a simulated brick. And then as we move forward, these are both sides. This is what the final, if you will, what they're talking about now. So what they're talking about now is real brick. They're talking about the wood composite. On the back of the building, they're talking about a brick veneer instead of doing any kind of bootstamp concrete. took out, like Dan had asked for also to give you like a cleaner look of what it looks like. Before too, we had, these here were like really, really stark white. Now they're more of a gray tone. If you look through the, and you have all of these pictures, you know, if you want to see them more in depth, on your lawyer right in front of you. We feel like this is a huge difference than where we started. The applicant has tried to meet the requirements of what we're asking them to do. And the other part of this that I want to show you. So here, you know, in the bathroom building, that is a brick veneer material. And one of the other parts of that concept or the approval of that condition was that they also needed a new monument sign. The old monument sign, this is kind of a second iteration of this project altogether. About two or three years ago, they went for it with 40,000 square foot medical office building, more stone and stucco look. and the monument sign that we had matched that. So part of it was, we already need something that was going to match this building, so they decided to move forward with the brick for the monument sign. And the architect is here to answer any questions that you may have. And we're here, obviously, to talk about the iteration.

Mr.

Chair, I have two questions.

And whoever is able to answer this. So when I look at the exterior material

When it is, it's called thin brick. It's not a full-face brick like you'd see on the brick house. It ranges from a half-inch thick to an inch thick, and it is applied on top of a concrete panel with adhesive, almost like you would do a ceramic tile wall. And then you fill the joints are larger than tile. It's like a mortar joint, and you have to fill the joints in with actual wood.

brick veneer you know are they all they're all okay well that's that's what i'm and and i did a little bit of so i want to make sure i understand what this so all of them are brick veneer correct okay but the brick veneer correct me if i'm wrong let me tell you what my understanding is is these are actual brick they're applied, it's just that they're much thinner. Correct. Okay. And then, correct me if I'm wrong, the mortar is applied so that when you get the finished product, if I'm standing there looking at it... Looks like a brick wall. Looks like a brick wall. Correct. Okay. So it's not... When you say brick veneer, because I can mean a lot of things to a lot of different people, it's not, you know, like a paneling system. No. It's like a faux brick veneer. This is the brick veneer that we're talking about.

It's a piece at a time. It's a 11 and 5-8s by 3 and 5-8s. Okay. You know, and you stack it, you know, however you want, you know. Like a brick.

Gotcha. Yeah. But it's a...

Yes, sir. Yeah. And you're not doing it one at a time. You're putting it on the wall all at once and then you do all the mortar. Correct.

Okay. Yep. So all M2, M4, M5 are all brick veneer. Correct. Okay. I just, that's what I wanted to, I looked a little bit about this product.

And then let me ask you another question. M3, which is the composite vintage wood, that appears to be a very similar type of thing. But that's not mortared, is that correct?

That's right here. that are put onto the concrete panel, and it's a system that doesn't allow water to get behind it. There's no water or anything like that? No. It's a hidden fastener system into back strips.

It's obviously sensitive. It's not a, it's going on top of the panel. It's not an insulated metal panel.

It's a regular metal panel.

the goal is to from again from uh outside perspective to make it appear wood but not have to correct stain it and all those different things yeah this is basically maintenance free once you know once you get on you know put it on okay and then m1 the textured finish when we're talking about that is that like a deepest material where it's uh or what is the

It's a very common way that's usually a Sherwin-Williams product that has what they call a medium texture, is they spray it on, and it's a little bit rougher than an aethys finish. An aethys finish is a little bit smoother. I mean, it's not like a highly mixed interior paint where you get little lacquer crystals that explode. It's... You can do it in flat, but we always do a textured mixer because then it hides any imperfections in the concrete, you know, discoloration in the concrete. Trying to figure out how to describe it.

So do you put that finish that you're talking about, this textured finish, is it over top of concrete? Correct.

It's over top of a primer.

to concrete, and then all these finishes are applied to achieve the level? Yes, sir. That you're, okay.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's a roof bearing, the rest of the roof steel, all that, those concrete panels, they go down to a footing system, foundation. Are they panels, or is it block, or is it? It's panels. They cast the panels on the slab, insert whisk knives, and they lift them up, brace them, crane, tie the roof in, then once the roof's tied in, you take the braces off, and then now you have four walls and a roof.

So basically, it's a totally open interior.

Correct.

So it's a concrete, the shell is a concrete building, and then all these different materials are applied over top of that concrete to achieve the aesthetic look that you're going for.

You got it.

I guess one other question. The concept behind this building, if it was downtown, I don't know that I would like it. Because correct me if I'm wrong, you were going for a modern look. It seems like a modern looking building. Can you speak a little bit to what the applicant was thinking as far as the design of the building? Or do you not know?

I'm not sure.

They can't.

I'll assume it's very cost-effective to do it this way with the concrete tiles.

Got it.

And they can speak, you know, of what their thinking was.

Yeah, maybe they could speak. I'm just curious what their thought was as far as the design of the building or what they were thinking. Because correct me if I'm wrong, they own the building on the corner as

Yes.

This is Brian Eberle. I'm not sure. Can anybody hear me? Yes, they can hear you. Okay, great. Thank you, everybody, for having us. Sorry to not be there in person, but I am out of town in Tennessee for a trip for my son's baseball team. The thought process was, especially when this building was designed years ago, there was a shortage and steel prices that increased significantly. And we are seeing this type of construction being used more and more. on all kinds of buildings retail buildings office buildings um because of the speed in which it can be built it is cost effective and it does allow for a very open floor plan that is good for leasing when you need to know what when you're not exactly sure who's going to be going into it it gives you a lot of flexibility And I think what Rob and his team have done a good job of trying to do is still put on the same finishes that you would see regardless of whether it was concrete frame building, steel frame building, or anything else. And that was the objective of what we were trying to meet.

Can I ask a question? Are there less internal columns in it that allow it to be more open? Is that what you're getting at when you say that?

It allows for a very open floor plan with minimal columns compared to anything else because the exterior walls provide the structure for any of the roof framing as well.

Okay, the footers are there. It's supporting a lot of the weight so you don't need as much. Okay, interesting. Okay. What I was really asking, though, was about the aesthetic of the building. Because you could have a concrete panel and make it, you know, more traditional looking or whatever you wanted to do. But it appears, and not that there's a problem with that, I'm just curious, with your other buildings that you have out front, what you're thinking, it looks like, correct me if I'm wrong, you were going for a little bit of a modern look. Is that correct?

I think that what was being proposed now, especially with some of the veneer changes is a, you know, it's a office retail symbol story that you would see in many different areas. And we've referenced the building down the street as well, which I think is almost the same kind of construction as what we've proposed here, which is a concrete tilt-up with different skins applied to it. Is that answering your question?

Not really, but I was just curious what the thinking was.

I think it's also to help make it consistent since he always referenced the CFP Plaza where Panda Express is and that it's not that far away and that's a very similar type of architecture and to keep things like that since that's something that has been approved. by this body, at least in the last...

So you feel like this is in the same vein of...

Yes, and then it's also on... Like you said, it's not downtown. It is in the same vein as what was existing there, and I think that's kind of what they took there.

That's kind of the direction we're going.

Yeah.

I believe this is not painted white.

Yeah, the building at the corner is painted like a white... Yeah, it looks... And then the mid-building is still brick, if I remember correctly.

They were mentioning painting that white as well at some point, or maybe some very... They don't all really match.

It just happens to be they own all three, but in any situation like this, it could be individual ownership anyway.

I agree. Newer building, low pressure look, it certainly helps out that whole complex that they have out there.

I was curious. To me, it strikes me as sort of, as you said, the Panda Express, more of a modern retail looking, like where Sprouts but kind of in that vein. For this location, I think that's great. And I think the elevations look a mile better than the elevations that we had before. My comment is, because we were close to downtown, if this was in downtown, I don't know. If this was like the Green Street project, the condo building, it's a little bit too modern for me. I'm just making that a reference, not a criticism of this building because it's looking

You said it's finished from your perspective. There's a few pieces that I know there's one other thing that I wanted to look at from the plan. I got that from the architect. I mean, the engineer last week. So they've recently gotten and guys who's on the call, if I'm incorrect, they're waiting for their fire approval. They just got that. So as far as approvals go, I believe that this is one of their last steps. And they're now recently at the last step from the county as far as approvals. Once we have everything done, they can start moving towards the mylar process.

It's the signature set. So we'll ask for signatures. And also, whatever gets approved will become plan sheets to add to that signature set.

So when the site plan, particularly the traffic, ingress and egress were approved, where were you in terms of knowing what the use was going to be?

It was always, it was one of two things, and they provide, I believe, at that time they provided the traffic impact study to county with both. If it was the school and the office building, I see it was going to be one or the other, and the county signed off. They're the ones who are the approvals for.

providing access out to malcolm which state highway has approved the permit for that the access to village 140 village is carroll county they had to prove access that access point when they amended the layout and and the type of uses they amended or updated the traffic impact analysis for the for the now office building and daycare slash school or if it was just all office yeah and so mr whack just does not be clear because it's

When we were here in December, we approved everything but the elevation.

Well, maybe I should get with you afterwards. Because Obrecht owns the adjacent parcel. And I noticed that this one egress onto 140 Village. No, it's because they own both parcels. Do we have any sort of policy or guideline about connecting adjacent parking areas? So, for example, could there be... Go ahead.

I was just going to say, Jason Parks did provide an access agreement that would be in perpetuity.

Yeah, okay. And Mr. Wack, we did, or Dr. Wack, we did discuss the potential connection at that one point, but I believe the allegation of the ground did not allow that, because I remember bringing that up when we were here. We do look at those sort of things. It just was not feasible in that case.

an interesting situation too for the fact that this parcel is in the city when the other ones next door are not so also in the ways of development review like trying to go through a process to do all that not saying that it would have been a problem but at this point it just wasn't something that was explored for for multiple reasons yeah yeah i foresee issues but i'm not going to throw them off your ranch in the process here definitely yeah because we already

No, I understand, but I drive this route all the time, and the merging from 140 eastbound, the egress from 140 village at the light, and the turn lanes at 140 and east main, there's crossing maneuvers constantly. And if you now add in ingress and egress out of something, especially if it's a school, It's going to be spicy. But drive on.

So are there any other questions that we can help answer for you? Or any other additional comments or thoughts?

We'll look better. Any thoughts? All right. Hearing none, anybody in the audience wish to speak?

Dr. Wack, I do just have one question. Sorry. We didn't really touch on the monument sign, but can you go back to that?

Sorry?

Yes. Because are you looking for approval of that as well in this case?

Mm-hmm.

okay any and i'm assuming the brick veneer is matching one of the brick veneers in the building itself is that that's cool is it matching the one that's along the foundation of the buildings it's curious the french gray smooth is that supposed to be the french gray smooth i did not um because it looks like a different brick but i don't think it is i think it's just the way it's rendered i think it's you're right it's the way it's right there that the intention is that is the french gray that's on the bottom part of the elevation okay okay right so that makes more sense because for whatever reason this photo or this rendering it looks

um so one of the things that we requested specifically for this meeting in order to come to this meeting was a cop you know with a new revised monument signed um so it probably was just one of the things that in order to make the timeline they wanted to make sure they gave you something to look at but that would have been the explanation for the coloring in my gym right there on a different computer with different graphs

Yes. I've recently run into that issue myself, trying to color match certain sidings for a project I'm working on. What it shows on the computer and what it is in real life are two very different things. Absolutely.

I do have a question. I was just wondering about the height. Excellent question. Good questions.

I did not have this. Regarding my ensign, this is physically all that I received.

Yeah, it doesn't look like it's overly tall. I mean, I was just curious since it didn't show.

I'm pretty sure that it was in relation to the same that what was in the last iteration of plans, but I can't say that.

I assume it meets you. There is a scale in that drawing, but you're, you know what I mean, but I'm assuming that it meets the criteria for our sign of obligation. So we will You'll verify that? OK. You'll verify that as part of the final approval process?

That it's the color that you're talking about.

OK. Just to make sure. So with that in mind, I will go ahead and move that the Planning and Zoning Commission approve the revised elevations, including the monument sign that and subject to the additional fine-tuning that you all were talking about. That's my motion. I'll second that question.

So we have a motion by Jonathan Hoffman, seconded by Mr. Boyd. Is there any discussion on the motion? Hearing none, all in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Motion passes. The ayes have it.

All right, 1 curiosity question. I'm sorry. When is the is there and maybe somebody can see. When is the ideal planning start construction number 1 and number 2, how long do they think construction is going to take.

Well, they still have to go through the signature set process and all of the documentation, but. What do you guys, what are you thinking?

we are uh trying to start in the next 30 days if we can because we have a tenant who wants to be in by next fall and then our goal would be to welcome the first occupant by uh september 1st of next year okay so you plan on starting as soon as you humanly can um and um okay exciting are you going to be building both buildings at the same time uh yes we are yes okay but you already have a tenant Yes, we have a tenant for the 12,000 foot building and then the other building, we have some prospects, but we would want it to be ready to go because most people will not lease it until they see it start to go up.

Okay.

Thank you. Thank you all very much. Thank you for this and for your input. And we're excited to get to this stage. So thank you everybody very much. Thank you. Thank you for your work on the elevations too.

Definitely.

All righty. Next item on the agenda is information from the county. Is there a representative? Yes, ma'am.

Hi, I'm Carla. I'm a liaison from Carroll County. I actually don't have many updates, but I do have a copy of the planning annual report that I'm going to give to you.

I can but that's really my only update. And you guys, our portion of this was approved in the February, at our February meeting, so.

Did that book online?

I'm not sure if it will be. It should, I think we published our annual reports. I'll double check.

We'll work together with PDF. We can send it out to the parents at our discretion. I'm just curious to know what it could be.

All right, thank you. Does the Commission have any comments on any other issues? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion to adjourn. So moved. Second. Second for Mr. Boyd. All in favor of the motion to adjourn? Aye. We are adjourned.