Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

e e e aliance the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all I'll make a motion second I next is review and approval of the February 182

minutes yes all right we have a motion I'll make the motion I'll second all right to approve the february2 meeting all in favor oppos none Mo carries next on the agenda we have a presentation by Dr Gast superintendent of the wayb city schools Dr Ryan Barber assistant superintendent of city schools on theity thank sir later yeah thank you for the opportunity to be here tonight and talk a minute about the school system alisand asked a few months ago if we would come by and give you an update on on the school system and some of the things that are going on um I thought probably you were interested specifically in enrollment as I've reported that to the city council I believe in November of 2022 and at least once since and um through some reporting provided it I believe to to this group or to some of the staff so I'll start with that part Dr barara is with me tonight I'm happy to to be here we do have a few other things we wanted to talk about my understanding is you've been hearing from some City departments and while we're not technically a city Department we're certainly uh consider our a part of the city and and believe we're a very important part of the city so our current enrollment and building capacity I'll speak just a moment to this slide we've report official enrollment on September 30th

and March 31st so the First Column is the current enrollment as of September 30th 2024 preferred class size you can see at the bottom bottom we like to have 18 students in prek no more 20 in kindergarten through 2 at the primary grades 22 in 3 through 5 and 22 students in 6 through eight that's not a regulation or requirement that's what we find to be an um preferable class size the maximum class size bylaw with a few exceptions are 20 in prek 22 and primary 25 in 3-8 and 25 and 6-8 so the second column is our preferred class size if we take all of our classroom spaces and multiply that out that would be the point that we begin to think we're that we think we're beginning to become uh overcrowded or at capacity and the maximum class size is when we are overcrowded or at capacity so as you can see there's pretty substantial capacity um well the next slide actually shows that I'll make one last comment I don't have 9 through 12 on here because 9 through2 is so hard to assign a number to you have some classes you know an advanced placement physics class that may have eight students in it because that's who wishes to enroll on the other hand you've got ninth grade English classes that everyone's taking so you may while we try to keep those below 25 you might have 27 28 in that um part of that has to do with the ability to staff and what electives are offered here's some historical data um around enrollment and you'll see our enrollment is getting back to where it was about 10 years ago

um I don't have a a good explanation or one that I could provide you any solid evidence of data of why we saw a dip in our enrollment uh I can tell you in 2020 a part of that was students that did not return immediately to schools after covid some students chose to stay home and do virtual learning we're finding those students are coming back now as well as uh we are seeing that some growth in enrollment okay I'll take an opportunity at this slide to point out to you it while here you'll see we have four elementary schools a middle a high and a pre Center okay with 3,000 students if you think about the city of 22 23,000 what's the population of our city right with 3,000 students and 21,000 residents that's one in seven is a student one in every seven people is a student right so if you look around the room here we would represent maybe two or three students my point being at 2100 new residents we would pick up 300 student students but these 300 students would be spread across all seven buildings and all of the classrooms in those buildings and so that gives us capacity to put put a number of kids I can't tell you the exact number of classrooms we have but it's over 20000 um so the other thing I would point out is um there's good capacity at Kate Collins a lot of capacity there actually that's one of our newest that is the newest Construction in the city the there was some renovation but a lot of

construction there about now 25 to 30 years ago 2008 to 10 I believe the four elementaries it's easier to adjust capacity because you can adjust an attendance boundary and and students can attend another building we don't like to do that and we're nowhere close to doing that but you could the high school is the one where we're the closest on being a capacity that in the preschool Center um pre school is growing preschool's not mandatory so we do have a waiting list there of some students because of space so the two ends of the spectrum at preschool and at high school and you'll hear more about the high school in a minute happy to answer questions at any time if you have them just a few things of interest interest about wboro public schools we are a pretty pretty big business organization we're the largest employer in the city with 570 full-time employees um enough part-time that would put us over 600 in total employees we do have the nine campuses seven I just mentioned we operate Valley Academy we're the fisical agent for that which is alternative school on the campus of Wilson complex because it's a regional program and they had the space so we're the we're the physical agent and operate and we will be opening a recovery High School for students experiencing substance abuse it's a small amount small number of students but ones who um have a great need that'll be a regional program also to open in August um we employ a number of drivers with 21 regular bus routes and 10 van R routes every day van rout routes take our students to Charlottesville

Harrisonburg Lexington Stanton to residential day placements that are more appropriate for those students at this point in their educational career we're not able to offer what they need during the day at the building but we work hard to transition them back and some of those van routes are also picking up homeless students who have moved or living outside the city but by federal law um should attend school and and should as a transition back we serve lots of meals to 3,000 students breakfast and lunch many of our students in after school programs get a snack at the end of the day we actually have a some students it's not a particularly large number but some students um enrolled in after school program at Kate Collins and wboro high school that have dinner before they go home in the evenings um we have 27 maintenance and custodial staff six of those are maintenance department folks with a more specialized um skill set that serve all of the schools in the division including the central office the others are building custodians that are assed at the building level our overall budget is just over $60 million for the coming school year uh this is the budget that was just approved for uh FY 26 I guess I've gotten a little ahead of myself maybe should have brought this year's budget because the city council has not yet approve this one but the board has and it is balanced so we're hopeful uh primarily our money is in an operating fund and that's what supports all the things I just talked about in will in terms of facilities Transportation nutrition um maintenance and instruction we do have some multi-year

funds that are grants that carry more than that carry past June 30th so more than one fiscal year they're held in a different fund Valley Academy is a separate fund because it's Regional Recovery High School also will be a separate fund textbook and school nutrition are funds they're the other two funds that we're allowed by state law to um have a balance on June 30th because particularly with textbooks we get textbooks money every year from the and we contribute to that but we don't adopt textbooks every year and so that accumulates to an adoption for reading might cost us $600,000 so that builds over time um I thought you might have an interest in this I get some questions now about Federal funding and state funding um I what I really wanted you to see here is the percentage the state does provide over half of our funding at 55% the locality is second at about 38 37.794310 rental on our cell phone tower that looks like a light pole at the and provides lighting for the ten courts uh so we generate about 1% of that Revenue our expenditures which again balance uh the important part of this is the 58%

salaries and 23% of benefits which is 81 81 and a half% almost all School divisions operate somewhere between 80 and 84% we're right in the middle of that few might operate at 78% of of people of personnel being the cost we're very people intensive business in what we do we're about the teachers and the AIDS the principes and all the support staff that we have and so um second point I would make about that as salaries increase your benefits increase generally because their percentage retirement FICA Medicaid all those things the non salary is very difficult to reduce that's our utilities um replacing equipment doing maintenance on our buildings and we have very large buildings with very expensive HVAC systems when things Break um it's all the utilities that we P pay electrical it's fuel for our buses um and so when we have to reduce a budget it comes out of salaries or when we're unable to give raises um that's a salary thing you really you just it's very difficult in these times to reduce non salary I was a finance director 20 years ago or 25 when the Great Recession came and we cut some non salary we've never got it back in there so as one of my colleagues says this year he's giving a 3% raise in turning on the lights and that's kind of where it is we got some additional State funds and some local funds and we put that into compensation a few key initiatives talk about what we're our purpose is even though we do lots of other things it

seems during the day it's really about um educating our students we are really focused right now on enhancing literacy the term that's used by the professionals is the science of reading and it's studying how students learn reading the general assembly passed last year a law called the Virginia literacy act that defines for us uh curriculum and teaching strategies provided some funding for professional development to improve our our teachers uh understanding of reading and to provide us with materials back in one of those first slides you saw some one-time Revenue that was the Virginia literacy act really empowering all students to read write and communicate more effectively we work very hard on that in kindergarten through third grade we don't get all students to reading on grade level our goal is by Third and certainly by Fifth when they go to Middle School um we don't we don't get 100% folks I'll be the first to tell you um I think we have an attorney among us tonight I had a friend that used to say if doctors and lawyers all had 100% we wouldn't have jails or graveyards right so I'm not going to tell you we get 100% of everybody where we want them it's just just doesn't happen um but we work hard to get out as many there as we can uh strengthening teacher Clarity and curriculum align be alignment being sure that our teachers understand what we expect to be that to be teaching at each grade level so there aren't gaps um some years ago I think we might have taught the same thing at third grade fourth grade and fifth grade and I say we Collective as a state maybe a country and there were gaps in there so we try to assure alignment uh so that we're reinforcing Concepts each year and introducing New Concepts as appropriate um being sure that our instructional

practices are purposeful and cohesive chronic absenteeism uh became a federal uh indicator of student of school accountability um sometime around 20 2015 or 16 it didn't concern us up very very much um in WSB and probably not much in Virginia I think because our attendance was good after Co we have struggled with that we're improving every year our elementaries looked good last year are looking really good this year Middle School's looking a lot better high schools improved we still got a little ways to go with our high school now that will improve every year as these students are accustomed to coming to school but those students who did not come to school for a year and a half um just had trouble returning and being there um intentionally and and productively as hard as we work at that that's one that's somewhat of our out of our control we try to have a safe and secure and fostering environment but we can't go get everybody out of bed and get them to school in the morning although we make a lot of trips out in the mornings and have some attendance Liaisons that help with that but that's really about family engagement we do have a number of English language Learners in our in our school system and so we provide targeted strategies for those uh students that's a growing number of multilingual students students who can start with us early in preschool primary or even Elementary coming from um homes for English is not the spoke language have a great Advantage because they learn to read and write and communicate effectively along with all their peers as we get students in middle

and high school who are trying to learn the language that's more challenging uh we have over 400 English language Learners at different levels some communicate quite fluently some virtually not at all um I think we're now up to 14 languages if that's right Dr Barber um 14 different languages spoken in the city that we're providing translation services for and U small group instruction to to get these students on track especially designed instruction um is tailored to the experience of of students increasingly and I think I hate to keep coming back to co but Co was a traumatic time that I think we is going to have to recognize for a few more years anyway maybe a lifetime in my case but um we have students with substantial Mental Health and Social and emotional and behavioral needs we also have students with learning disabilities and increasingly severe um learning disabilities that require very specialized Services um those students would would have an IEP an individualized education plan I think that again is add or exceeds about 400 of our students we have another group of students with medical issues that have what are called 504 plans and those 5044 plans provide accommodations for students who have a diagnosed medical disability most common would be an attention deficit disorder or ADHD hyperactivity disorder uh but we do have students with other physical needs that have specialized instructional

plans and just enhancing our communication strategies we appreciate being here tonight so that we can give the message to folks and try to give people complete and accurate information as I'm sure you know because you sit at the dis getting complete and accurate information out to folks is sometimes more difficult than than people realize um again talking just a little bit about our specific tailored programs shannond Valley Center for Advanced learning that encompasses Valley career in Tech and shano Valley Governor School underneath it those two programs are at the center for advanced learning we used to refer to the two separately about three years ago or four that is a regional program with Augusta County and Stanton uh three or four years ago we hired a new director of that Center and put both programs Under One Roof much like a high school over at Wayne it's all on one campus and largely in one facility there's there's a second building building number two but U not unlike most high schools and we were running a governor School in one part and a CTE in the other with different directors and they didn't really it was kind of a line drawn arbitrarily down the hall well wesboro high school we have lots of career and tech ed programs we have academic programs and we have Arts programs and we've got one person in charge of the campus and the facility and all work together that's really working out nicely for us for example the robotics team the engineering classes in the gov School Park may do the engineering and design work and then they go down and work with the machine shop in the welding shop to build the robot or the car or whatever it is they're building and so they're work working together just like we do every

day in in construction or in real life um we do have several alternative education and post High School opportunities we're required by federal law to offer programs for our students with special needs with IEPs through um age 22 uh one of those is the post High house over on popper we bought the house that ad joins WB High School a few years ago and that's referred to as the step learning lab those students come there each day learn um Independent Living skills like mowing the grass and doing laundry um for the first year or so they were there they would write me a check every month for the rent which really wasn't the rent but it was the idea that they were paying rent um and then they go out into various um places in the city to to work YMCA Summit Square some of those um we've mentioned Valley Academy Valley Academy is our turn to school Valley Academy is not just for students with with behavior problems some of the students there just have a level of anxiety or stress that they are being in a building with 925 other students and another 125 adults so 1,50 people they just can't deal with it they do just fine there with 35 other students in the building um some teenage parents there some attendance problems that they're able to work with better and some this one problems this one behavior issues um career and Tech ad at wboro high school when we began the first phase of the renovation at wboro high school for the 30s and 50s we did not have a place to transition we would call it phasing to phase students during the renovation of those parts of the building uh very proud of this we were going to use need

to eight modular units which we have to do water and sewer and utilities set those up they rent for about $45,000 a year to meet educational standards and we were going to need them two to three years so it was going to cost us a couple million dollars just for the modular units and when you're done somebody hooks to them and drives out of town with a truck uh we were able to buy the News Virginia building for 660,000 put about 900,000 in it and so for about a million and a half we've got a great facility there that's going to serveice for many many years to come we also didn't have a place to put eight modular units by the way down down on Main Street so that worked out really nicely for us the council was helpful with doing that um in there we have Plumbing electrical we work with Blue Ridge to do some nursing some em EMT training the EMT training actually and nursing take place in what was the old Window World we also purchased that building at the same time for the same reason then after we were able to complete all that renovation we've utilized those now for CTE in fact I believe some of the fire and rescue folks from here in the city train there because we've gotten grants and have some really um high level that's kind of scary that I said that and they're going out right now isn't it that's weird uh really Hightech mannequins there that they're able to train with we partner with Blue Ridge do heavy equipment training in the summer a program where a student can come and get their forklift or some heavy equipment certifications with back hose and that kind of thing I believe that the um I know the city last year was very interested in that program because the students graduate with that certificate they were going to have a job somewhere and I think the city I don't know that they hired but they were watching

closely who was in it and who was hired through that we're not compet let me be clear we're not competing with Valley Career and Tech in these programs Plumbing electrical those EMTs what we're trying to do is generate interest with students earlier in 10th maybe even ninth but 10th and 11th grade then they can go down and do the year-long program where Eed to be you got to about this time in 10th Grade and you said well hey Jeff do you want to go to Valley Career and Tech and be an electrician I'd say sure and I get over there in a month into it I find out I don't want anything to do with it and I didn't even know what's behind the wall play cover right or what's behind the Saga so we give students six nine weeks introduction to all the different construction trades and then they can make more informed decisions or the others as well we're seeing a enrollment increase at at in the CTE programs at Valley Career and Tech we think that's part of the reason along with some of the other changes that were made um we do have lots of athletic programs um I'm sure you realize that maybe you don't realize how many um there's right now boys and girls soccer and boys and girls tennis and softball and baseball and track going on in the spring um really creative and robust arts program with our band choir theater theater works with the Wayne Theater here uh on some plays and some Productions and really strong visual arts program as well we try to be good stewards of the city's money and funds and so quick history lesson in the 90s William Perry Elementary was built and and Westwood was completely renovated the late 90s so

that's now more than 25 to 30 years old um I mentioned Kate Collins which was partially renovated but significant new construction of two large classroom Wings in the late 200 8 to 11 or something like that our other elementary schools Berkeley Glenn and Winona were built in the early '70s 72 and 74 and it had nothing done to them it was the original doors original Windows um heating systems were pretty close to original not completely in fact I was getting ready to sign sign a a a bid for $780,000 for windows at Berkeley Lyn when we learned that we were going to get some of the co money to improve air quality and we could use that for HVAC and doors and windows so we were able to to we stopped that waited a month or so long story short over the last five years we've been able to use our covid funds some State construction grant money that we got some of our own funds when we shut down when schools and everything else shut down in March of 2020 5 years ago last week U we were we had some savings at the end of the year because we didn't have as many utilities we didn't pay for fuel we didn't travel we didn't do professional development so we leveraged all those funds and we actually able to renovate complete Renovations with uh HVAC systems Windows Doors uh we had to pull the ceilings to do all that so new ceilings and new lighting at Berkeley Glenn Winona and Wayne Hills now Wayne Hills is a much older building going back to the 50s had closed opened there had been some renovation there but it's been completely renovated the hva systems at with HVAC

system at William Perry was also under bid at that time at about 450,000 as I remember and we were able to delay that out long enough enough to use H or uh Co money and the HVAC system at Westwood was on its last legs at 25 years at Kate Collins we upgraded the phone and intercom systems also the Safety and Security upgrades there uh at the time it was renovated and redone it didn't it the Safety and Security in the intercom was not what we would what we would expect to have today um and some H there did some work on our athletic facilities uh Press Box specifically lights at the softball field uh to make it equal with the baseball field and some others we spent almost $20 million and that's Cash There's No Debt Service the point in telling you this is all of those projects were on our 10-year Capital Improvement plan and sometime in the next 10 years presumably the city because we don't have that kind of money and the city takes care of the capital projects was going to have to figure out how to do that 20 million or undertake Debt Service or come up with some solution because you got to have heating and air and it's nice when your doors and windows shut tightly and lock so we feel like um we wiped out basically the capital Improvement plan for anything more than half a million dollars with the exception wbor high school and and so really proud of that as we now talk about completion of wboro high school's renovation and construction I mentioned already there's a 30s and 50s Edition we've renovated that if you've not been in I think it's a very well

done renovation it's a very very solid building things were built well in the 30s and 50s 70s not so much so we didn't have the building codes that we have now and people weren't watching sometimes people get aggravated I think with building codes and inspections there's a reason we have them if you don't leave that go over and look at their 70s we um a lot the structural issues we've had numerous firms look at it over the last 10 years and they say basically you can fix anything but it's going to cost more than it does to demo and build new and you still got a 50y old building with structural issues so our plan is to come in front of the existing Wing which is the wing closest to us the other parts of the building have the Auditorium the gym the offices all that the wing closest to us that we refer to as the 70s is strictly classrooms including 1970 science labs which still look like 1970 science labs um so we'll go in front of that and build a new classroom Wing because any point in the day there's 650 kids 600 650 kids in that part of the building just not have place to put them so we'll go toward the street and build a new classroom Wing demo that wing then immediately behind that adjacent to the football field but also opening up to the track and soccer field um in tennis cours a fullsize gymnasium our gym was built in the 50s it's actually 10 feet short of being regulation but vhsl lets us use it because it's what we have uh you can't extend it because of popular Avenue the way it's built and to have I can't tell you of another High School in our area that doesn't have two gym n gyms and many of those are 450 500 600 student schools so the need for that gym in the winter when we have girls and

boys basketball and U volleyball and wrestling and all the sports going on cheerleading it and just for instruction during the day it's really almost critical so it will be a full-size gym actually built with enough seating to host Regional District and Regional competitions because we're in such an ideal loccation to do do that with the Confluence of the interstates and some Associated spaces like locker rooms and coach's office we have hired the the the city has appropriated a million dollars to start the A&E work on that the the plan at this point is for a $60 million Bond sale we have engaged the services of an architect and engineering firm uh will underst undertake construction management uh in that process rather than the traditional bid build bid design bid build which we think serves us better for many reasons and that's been confirmed uh by outside party we have on the street now the proposal for the construction management firm we actually did a statement of qualifications had nine narrow it to three and we'll hope to make that decision in the next month already in some um design work but it will really pick up over the next year so important in the near future uh there needs to be major renovation at Valley Career and Technical Center we the way that program works as a regional program is for the capital for the capital facility uh which was built in the 1970s wesboro has 25% Stanton 25% and Augusta County 50% we did do $4 million there with some of the covid money over

the last three or four years to upgrade the original 50y old heating system that was in bad need and added three science labs for the governor school because there weren't any science labs at the career and tech center they were using converted body shops and welding shops um but that will be upcoming there is money in the state budget for Construction Grants we will apply for wbor high school I expect that Augusta County will apply for this and so that might be helpful for both if they were to happen but just putting that on the radar I only Capital Improvement then some other things on our Capital Improvement plan I thought might be of interest to you and really what it is is um wona has only one entrance and it's right at the Main Street and the railroad um you wouldn't build a school now with only one in fact that was assist soup in my last job we built one that was in a very similar location with a railroad crossing and a road and we spent $260,000 putting the second entrance out because we had to buy an easement and go through a rock pile basically to do that they really need a second entrance and exit not just for traffic flow and buses but for safety um we don't we lease a burke bus parking facility that is quite adequate down at the old jco U plant Gom plant but we don't own it and if it gets sold or something happens I'm not sure we went through a period when they were changing ownership that we moved buses you might remember seeing them down at Constitution Park and other places around the city for about four months that didn't work out well and we don't have a maintenance facility we were out a small little shop on syamore

questions or comments I hope I didn't take oh took longer than I meant to sorry about that questions we don't have project manager and that is an excellent point because all of that's about tens of million of dollars right and that I would tell you one of the things we try to do I talked about uh engineering and welding but we try to do that at the high school with uh Finance classes and um Independent Living classes and students just understanding Banking and business and loans that could certainly this would be a perfect example of of going into the finance in the business world of it because uh yeah that's great opportunities in all of those because that'll give them a background and in and financial responsibility too managing a budget for a project uh you already said that they're writing you a quote rent check every month but I mean it could be balancing project budgets well just understanding a proposal on that you got

to go out and bid you don't just get the job you got you're you're exactly right um have y'all ever considered using the students at ktech to do some of your smaller Renovations we have there's a number of barriers there um one are some Osa regulations uh that we would have to work around and that's improving there's been a focus on CT and we're finding that U there's a um lessening of regulations to allow students to do internships and mentorships and apprenticeships second is the timing to get out and get back but we do some of that and I'll give you an example we were talking about Wayne Hills but we actually you may remember the credit union for the city the wboro city credit union for those of of us have been around for a decade used to be over in three or four rooms at Wayne Hill Center and there were a couple other rooms there near public works well when the credit union moved out we needed those as classrooms so my maintenance guys could do much of the work but I didn't really want them to have to demo it so I called over and asked the construction trades guy at the career and tech center if they'd want a demo job and he got so excited and he and they came and spent two weeks I guess because as you know demo it the right way and it saves you work you doo it the wrong way you're in m and he said I never get to change the demo we build new every year we build new and they build a house and sell all but he was so excited to have that opportunity to come out and Dem Something art to C what I call surgical yep um just curious about how do y'all go

about your non uh salary uh you talked about repairs and buying equipment and all that how do y'all go about procuring y'all's equipment do y'all go through vas Cup in Richmond through the state or we our finance department puts out bids and if they go at a certain level they go through Eva which is a electronic Virginia we posted some bids today for a couple of small jobs um some Services we we bid anything over $110,000 we bid do y'all ever take advantage of the state contracts that they already they have built we do yes yes yeah particularly with some specialized things like seens controls Johnson Controls that does fire safety some of those very familiar with them other questions coun you of the of the new construction well my plan and I I shouldn't say my plan my understanding of the plan that we currently have with the city is that as I said we should have the construction management grp on board within the next 60 really 30 days 45 we'll start all the design work we'll go to schematic design and in detailed design work which should be complete by about January it'll take most of the rest of this year to do that by January we would like to start submitting that department of Ed has some review but most of it the city so we would start submitting that to the city for review

and per the storm water all that in my schedule I have through March to to complete that um and then giving us a little buffer of April uh we'll need to sell bonds there's been some discussion about so that's calendar year 26 Bond sales for Virginia Public Service Authority vpsa Bond sales only happen in the spring generally in late April or early June and in the fall in October and November I would like to be able to do spring Bond sale of April or May because once we have the bond sale and have the money we're ready to break ground and we need to capture that summer having a summer without students in a building is is so critical it just changes the whole ball game because you get two months to to get in there and get get things done so that would be spring of that would be June of 2026 and I would think this is a three-year construction project um now first thing is going to be the classroom Edition which is probably a year and a half to two years then we'll be able to open and start to utilize that secure the area and demo the demo is probably a summer job I would think and uh and then the the gim's probably the the third year does the new Wing increase your capacity at all yes it does capacity is currently 1,50 I believe if that's what I had up there and uh our capacity would go I don't remember remember the I don't know that we've calculated the number completely Mr Lee because we haven't completely uh we haven't finished the

conceptual design in its entirety but it does increase uh the uh capacity there I I better not give you a number because I don't know it exactly thank sir if any of your uh senior students that are finishing up ktech this year are interested in apprenticeship program UVA starts taking applications April the 1 for their four-year Apprentice program all right I'll pass that on to them I know some folks have done that yes sir uh I know you don't want to give a number on the increase in capacity you have any idea I mean I at one point we talked about it being 1175 but I don't know that that's um I I don't know that we'll be able to to get there a little bit of what complicates that is this Wing will have science labs science labs are bigger and take up more space and you still put 25 kids in them so some adjustments there can change 25 or 50 50 students so that would increase it by about 100 students than I believe it's a little more than a 100 students I think it would be more like 125 150 maybe but yeah yeah um now one thing that I mean it's great to increase capacity but how about the uh the teacher shortage how do you handle that well um I'm gonna give you the five minute version of about a 30 minute version that Mr Stewart has heard at the Schoolboard um I came 12 years ago as superintendent and just to be perfectly honest The Narrative was that you wanted to work in the county or St because they paid better and had better benefits we've worked really hard at that I take no credit for that I've got great people human resource and the city has supported that and our pay scales are very competitive right now and it's a

good place to work and we've got good benefits I do take great pride in Dr barbar does most of the hiring he's in charge of personnel P principles will interview at the building and then they'll come to him for a second interview just today he interviewed a lady from the norick area who has relatives and then join the division and said well they want me to come closer and they said wboro is a good place to work and to go there we find our own employees are telling their college roommate or their cousin or their sister or their friend come here and work we're consistently hiring people from from Alam marrow and and Charlottesville and uh we just didn't use to do that so the compensation benefits the work environment and frankly the city I think that's why we're seeing residental growth um our Greenway our Parks our infrastructure the industry that's is coming in you know we lose some teachers each year because I can think of two that I know of right now whose spouse is transferred in their job so they're transferring because you can get a teaching job all over the country right same thing happens here though as people come into work at northri grman or whoever they'll be some spouses who are teachers that we think we're going to be able to hire so I think it's a combination of of just recruiting we're in a better place than than a lot of school divisions and I can show you that I don't want to sound like I'm standing here making statements that we can't back up but um I do think we have a good school system um you all know this it's your job you're not going to have a thriving booming productive City if you don't have a good school system and we're not going to have a good school system if we don't have a thriving Progressive City that's supporting us and helping to to fund that which is why I talked about budget in programs and not just capacity

tonight so um so you don't anticipate any big issues we need to hire another math teacher or two and a couple of foreign language teachers but so does every School Division in the state by and large we're in a pretty good place um I think it's going to get tough for all School divisions over the next couple or three years and then maybe that'll will come back around I I think um I'm speculating a bit here but I think during covid it was a tough time in public schools and I think a lot of students who might have gone into teaching didn't do that they they left high school and did something else we're seeing small numbers of college seniors now and Dr Barber goes to uh recruiting fairs and job fairs in fact I was in a regional superintendent meeting today and fars so uh just very small numbers coming out uh we are finding and we're lucky to participate in some programs um one with Virginia Commonwealth out of Richmond that we were able to partner with some school divisions out Eastern Virginia and we're happy to do that um for career switchers people who want to become licensed teachers and teach and we find some very good teachers there we get the occasional one that's not a good idea we just have to tell them that but um I think we'll see increasingly programs for career switchers or our instructional assistants many of our AIDS have an associates degree and there are programs where we can assist them in their tuition and their experience in the building where they're working already to get a bachelor's and get a teaching license would you add anything to that Dr barara that's your area of expertise coming from all

over Rec from char very beautiful of our country and they came V it two our best teachers living here in our community one of the things that is not part of Dr Castle's presentation but I would really like us to be able is to purchase apartment complex for a number of houses and provide subsidies fire and teachers who live in the city of wboro because one of the things that we do find is if you move from Charleston South Carolina you probably are doing okay you were able to sell your home there and at a pretty high rate and come your community and buy something very comforable but if you are a brand new teacher and you haven't received that paycheck it is really really hard to pay rent um and to find a place that has r that is within your budget so I think that would be kind of how how I would hope the community maybe level up some of our colleagues around the state are doing that work but we are finding really great folks who are coming here because of the community that you all are any other questions thank you so much thank you thank you Dr G thank you all right next on the agenda [Music] havei

service for okay good evening um so this is zoning text Amendment for Section 98-49 point7 car washes and then in addition to section 9844 point10 which is our vehicle sales and service section um so the applicant has requested an amendment to section 984 6.7 car washes and the the amendment requested by the applicant which specifically addressed how bay doors um associated with those car washes are oriented um within the city's entrance corridors and then also to um adjacent residential areas um the applicant is working with a potential Car Wash client or Car Wash tenant for site at the waynsboro marketplace um and right now as the ordinance is is written um it wouldn't permit the placement of the car wash because of uh the orientation requirements for the bay doors that our ordinance currently has um because this amendment would affect not only this property but also property Citywide within um the insance corridors and then any residential areas um we do need to take a look at this um and how a potential change would impact Citywide um which is why staff um added in section 984 4.10 which is the vehicle sales and service because that section

addresses bay doors as well and in fact contains the exact same language so staff feels that keeping both of those sections consistent would um avoid any confusion and just um ensure that there's consistency in application um so the current ordinances read and the pertinent section is um bolded in red is all service bay doors openings shall face away from adjacent residential uses and from corridors designated in section 998-3303 cor Corridor overlay District um it is the exact same sentence in both the car wash section and the vehicle sales and service and this sketch comes from our zoning ordinance and it shows you have your your road right here and then the orientation of the bay doors are parallel to the road rather than facing the road right there um let give a quick look at our entrance corridors um they are sort of the main routes through the city uh you have the Main Street Corridor Broad Street uh Delian Avenue Rosser the I64 Corridor and also Ivy Street uh north of Hopman Parkway heading out of the city um so the C current ordinance does require those bay doors to face away from those entrance corridors that I just showed and um residential districts uh believes that the intention of the ordinance as it was written was to protect the viewshed quality of those entrance corridors and then also any negative impacts from the residential areas that may be adjacent um but we also believe that it has led to mixed results in application and I'll go through several examples here in a moment um and so this

amendment looks to um more consistently reduce that potentially negative visual impact those bay doors may have on the entrance corridors but then also on those jent residential uses so this is the the proposed amendment language is the exact same sentence or several sentences both in the car wash section and the vehicle sales and service section and it states that the orientation of bay doors openings shall face the Direction having the least visual impact on residential uses and corridors designated in section 9833 point2 pointb the site review team shall make final decision determining the orientation additional screening deemed necessary by the zoning administrator to protect views from adjacent properties may be required um so staff's intent with this proposed language is sort of in the first sentence it allows the developer to determine the best placement of their particular development their their building um based on uh what might work what best on that particular site taking into account that they need to try and mitigate any negative visual impacts that second sentence the site review team that review team is assigned to um assist the zoning administrator in site site development review so reviewing those plans um and it consists of staff from various departments you got planning zoning building fire and rescue uh Public Works engineering um so you have all those departments involved in those review processes um so they would help uh make that final determination about how that building would be oriented to mitigate and then finally that last sentence the additional screening that gives the zoning administrator the flexibility to provide provide excuse me require additional screening on top of what

might already be required for example if a uh use is requiring a 15ot Class B buffer and that's just required between the use and the residential areas then an additional screening such as as a fence to further mitigate those impacts could then be required through this ordinance so you'd have the fence and then you'd have that 15ft buffer that would just help um mitigate those impacts um especially for residential areas um so now I'd like to walk through a couple examples throughout the city um excuse me several a couple of these are newer builds and some of these are existing structures that have been here for quite a a while the first one that I'd like to talk about is that take five this is actually at the wboro marketplace on Roser it's located right here and then in this photo right here as you're traveling south and north on Roser Avenue and this particular structure had to follow those those orientation requirements so you have the bay doors facing away from the entrance Corridor roster Avenue and you have the plain wall side of the building facing the roadway this orientation in this particular circumstance gives you a very clear view of those three bay doors as you drive the length of roster as soon as that building comes into view um in staff's opinion the building had it been able to orient the other direction have those bay doors actually face Roser Avenue instead of running parallel with Roser Avenue would actually detract your attention from those bay doors because they would be I guess better shielded as your as you're approaching and then they would come into view as you're sort of near it and then passing it as opposed to being able to see it the entire length of the corridor so in this case it would have been better to orient it the other

direction second example that we have here is the tidal wave also new new structure uh basically right across the street from the take five um in this situation uh it is a car wash it does have that one bay door as you're heading north on Roser Avenue the other side doesn't have a bay door it's a big glass window and it's actually pretty well screened by existing two existing trees and then uh traffic light paraphernalia and signage so you really can't tell it as you're really can't see it well as you're heading south but if you're heading north you do see the bay door but its impacts are mitigated by several factors in this particular case one is the um that does have these matal trees that were left standing um next to the roadway also the building materials and the architectural design created a much more pleasing building it's much more pleasing to the eye it's got those big bright windows so sort of the the design of the building and the construction of the building itself helps mitigate the impacts that um seeing the bay door as you drive parallel with roster gives you third example we have is a Discount Tire this is over at um town center and here again you have the bay doors that are running parallel with the entrance corridors is P Buckley Moss Drive um but here again they aren't as noticeable as for example the take five uh again the site the site here has helped determine that uh the Discount Tire is set below the elevation of the road which sort of lowers the the view of the doors as you're traveling past and in this case there is some vegetation that had a chance to mature a little bit so which further helps mitigate that impact um so here the the the fact that the Discount Tire sits below the elevation of the

road plus some more more mature vegetation the combination of the two um help mitigate the impact of those spay doors a little bit in this case it's also only on one side in this case as you're traveling Southbound on P Buckley uh you don't actually have those bovers next examp example is the RightWay Hyundai um this building is uh quite old at this point but they do have a line of bors along sort of the the back part of the property um this is heading uh towards Stanton on West Maine and then this is heading into downtown wboro on West Main so here again um there are a couple reasons why these these don't feel quite as noticeable as some of the others you have some mature trees that have helped Shield it you also have very expansive parking lots with vehicles so you can't see them quite as well in this case but here again you do see uh those um bors as you're traveling the corridor and then finally the last example is the Mr Tire also on West Main Street this is actually currently a legally non-conforming use this building predated the current zoning ordinance requirements um so you can see that their bay doors are actually facing west main which gives us a good example of what it would look like if that building was oriented so that the Bor were facing the road as opposed to facing the traveling public as you're going down the road um and here you you do not have as much emphasis placed on those bors you have that solid wall there as you approach and you see them but they're not sort of in staring at you um and here also you lack some of that mature vegetation uh so that seeing the side of the building as you approach as opposed to the bay door sort of helps mitigate the visual impacts in this

case um so all of those previous examples help illustrate that the visual impacts that the B Doors have vary from sight to site um and they depend on a number of factors that include um each site's individual characteristics the building materials that are chosen the architect design that is chosen and any vegetation including any existing vegetation that is left that's mature and any vegetation that will be required um after construction is complete and being able to determine this the building orientation on a sight by sight basis allows both the developer and also staff to take all these considerations into account when figuring out how to orient how to best Orient that building and then also protect um the adjacent views from any residential areas that could be impacted and then also on that on those entrance corridors um it also provides uh the zoning administrator the ability to require additional screening deemed necessary to protect any adjacent residential uses or entrance corridors and that would be on top of what might already be required by our zoning ordinance so again class 15 or class 15 foot class P buffer might be required by the ordinance but then the zoning administrator could also require additional uh screening on top of that um and so the current or's goal the way it is written now with the entr with the bors face facing away from the entrance corridors and residential areas it was designed to help Ure a vis visually appealing Corridor um but staff does feel that this has yielded mixed results um and being able to determine the orientation on a sight by sight basis would um you be better able to reduce the visual impacts that those bors may have if you're if you have the ability to do

that um but then also if we are seeking to create visually appealing or aesthetically appealing entrance corridors creating and implementing design standards could be a better approach to accomplishing that than this particular requirement um and staff is therefore recommending approval um the applicant is here tonight uh to answer any questions you may have but I'm also happy to take any questions the one potential issue that I or concern that I have about potentially these sites facing the roadway facing is potential the potential for unimpeded traffic B door s sighting the bay door very close to the roadway and the potential for traffic the roadway like know okay it's kind of P this from one to and they enter the roadway tra in in the site evaluation process have explained to Us site do you have the ability to prevent that is there a requirement setbacks or traffic flow prevent that I think um in a place that I used to live that I w't one of the big traffic issues in the neighborhood was one of these grandfathered in shops where every every 30 minutes when you're trying to turn out of the road there was a car blocking that being pulled from one place to next moved out of the bay go wait up that would be the traffic flow sort of component of all this one potential issue that I didn't see addressed in the

yes so the um factors such as setbacks would help determine that um where so they can required to to site the building a certain setback away from the front property line so that would help mitigate it um also the site review team does take a look at traffic safety issues as they're reviewing um so so that should be uh addressed during that site review process so that concern would be addressed in due course as part of the C yes since we are focused so significantly on of the visual part of this I want yes anybody else have question so the current tax uh essentially automatically protects residential if there's residential then under the current text you can't have those vors face that that position and the new text would take that out and we would we allow on the site review team to to make that termination that concerns me I think one thing that we've talked about also um is so the orientation of the bay doors the visual orientation is one mitigating Factor so certainly your point is well taken that this would um you know take that um outright um elimination away that yes they could face residential um but I think it's important to also point out that there are strict requirements for buffering between a commercial use and a residential use and so that buffer would be in place but then also with this language any additional buffer that the zoning administrator and site review

team felt was important so I think in some ways staff felt like that the visual orientation of the doors is one thing but even if you were to turn it or it was required to be turned and be um in compliance with this existing ordinance then there would only be a certain buffer that's required now but maybe not an additional buffer that could help with the lighting aspect or the noise aspect rather than maybe potentially just the Turning of the bay door um so I don't know if I explained that well but that that was as staff was looking at it um felt like there would be ways you know certainly there there might be some sites where they couldn't turn it anyway because it would either face a residential or it would face an entrance Corridor but in those instances the site review team would be looking at okay we we'd prefer it to face the in the corridor over a residential development but if it had to face a residential area you already have a classy buffer the buffer that's required so you have kind of the one of the most stringent buffers in between that commercial use and a residential use and then on top of that the zoning administrator could deem you know additional buffering screening fencing that um felt like would be important so so um so it's I guess um important to like so there are instances obviously where you have residential next to commercial it happens it's not um we don't you know try you we try to have a gradients of those so sometimes you have maybe a higher density residential next to commercial um so yes that could

happen and H happens as part of the zoning process um but so to your point no when someone makes a a submits a site plan and staff is reviewing it it would be kind of at our level to go out look at the property look at what surrounds it hey does what orientation do we think makes the most sense here and then because those bay doors may need to face a residential development um what additional screening distance like what what do we think makes the most sense um in that regard so no it wouldn't be in I guess informing or asking the residen how does this impact current buildings so um it it it doesn't in the fact that like uh the legal non-conforming use that alisan mentioned you know if they are facing the corridor now um it it could you know impede them if they were trying to add on or develop an additional part of their building and they were trying to you know have the the bay doors face the corridor um if this ordinance isn't amended but they can operate as they are um but then if this ordinance was amended I guess there would be flexibility in that you'd have some legal non-conforming uses that are now conforming and it's just um yeah certainly the desire is kind of to eliminate the visual impact and staff feels that you know maybe the Mark was missed and that you really can see it the whole drave of the corridor in some cases and if we are more concerned about the visual looks of certain buildings um then it would be better handled through like design guidelines or design criteria so it strikes me that we're talking sort of two things I first is

the just because that's the way the original text yes we in the text itself for orientational like that that would be the primary desire yeah I think that I'm I agre with ter that's the point of the exercise here is US and obviously the the screens are great the problem is the screens start you know you know sometimes it minut sometimes the uses are a little more dramtic you think they're going to be in terms ofum vehicle flow noise um you know just so happens that I grew up in a place where carh that's all was and so I can imagine a car washly a car out getting a lot of traffic in the immediate vicinity of a resal would be a lot of yeah I I I totally here I I also want to keep in mind that so even um so the conflict that could exist between those uses and a residential development could still exist today the doors would just not face so I hear that like that that same use could be there

it would just be turned so the doors were facing away but it could still potentially be the same noise the same kind of light impact and so staff's thought in that regard was you could require something a lot more robust and hey you have to plant evergreen trees at a certain height but then you also have to put in a fence that may and and then sometimes you know we're talking about like so what if it was a residence that's very close to but in some cases it might be a residential development that significantly set back from that property line but then we could look look at all those things but yes it would it would be um at that point not an outright restriction but on the site review team to look at the property and to figure out what orientation would make the most sense to protect the corridor and and but first obviously any residential development so in staff's view this would give you flexibility to yes we we do feel that way I mean certainly there could be properties that exist out there that that there's residential somewhere and there's entrance Corridor and so today no car wash or vehicle sales or service could locate on it under the current ordinance um but and but staff feels like in those cases it's just completely there's just no ability and what benefit are we actually providing in the orientation and how can we provide potentially a greater benefit um with this flexibility is there a way to Encompass the flexibility that would be granted through this versus having to change the whole text to include

orientation I mean there so there's certainly a number of ways um you know we could go about it I mean if you felt very uncomfortable about the residential it could be you know kind of walked back in some ways um and and and leave that as is and just focus on um the entrance Corridor um so certainly if you feel like you know we we obviously have the applicant and um open and close the public hearing but you know staff would be happy to if you all would like to table it to continue to look at um different ways that might make more sense I I think the verbage is I CU I thought I saw on their house and they correct me that this is a case by case review correct yes each each development plan have that in itself gives you the flexibility for the subject property to determine the best orientation and barriers that we already have in place to fit whatever ever is going in there into that subject property I I don't know how changing the verbiage would give you more flexibility [Music]

cannot yes under the current text it just it cannot face residential it takes the consideration yeah I but there's no opportunity either okay I just okay all right um let's let's hear from the applicant and have a public we can unless Miss Keller has a question if now is the time to add to the Texs um specific design standards you know aesthetic value know you and I had talked about that earlier so I know that these are decided at the time right of application but do we want to add aesthetic value or specific design standards to that text as well at this time or is that just a case by case review I I think that um the aesthetic guidelines um if that's something that um the Planning Commission and then ultimately Council would want to pursue is that is something that would that is kind of a larger um lift in terms of like colors materials parking orientation um so it's not something we could do now right um but yes I think that if that is a desire of the Planning Commission that that's something that your staff look into to and certainly as we work through our comprehensive planning process might come up from citizens and and then that might be a policy that gets put into that plan potentially that then we could go down that road in the future um but I think

just my experience in entrance cordor overlay District ordinances there is just so many specifics to them um that it's not something we would be able to to try and do um quickly with this specific request let me ask one follow-up question about that so we do not at least as I understand it have the authority to dictate design standards based on individual uses is that correct so we could not say if you want to build a car wash it has to be this material and right it would have to be for the entire overlay District throughout the entire entrance Corridor you know roof pitches are this materials are this right so we can't dictate based on we can't say this is what car dealers ship and this is what uh sure quick lube places and right it would have to be for the entire District all right I just want to make sure I understood that correctly okay any other questions for staff all right thank you all right next uh I think we're gonna hear from the applicant good evening my name is Seth rodick I'm with Mont Verity engineering and design studio located in Harrisburg um I think Allison did a great really thorough job of of kind of showing some of the issues I'll summarize it just a little differently but that is that you know as an engineer I've had the luxury if you want to call it that of working on a lot of different localities over my career and that means a lot of different ordinances U we've read through I mean I'd hate to count um the one thing they all have in common is that they're all intended to protect the public benefit um different authors have different Impressions and different interpretations on how to best do that uh and sometimes what feels like a good way to to serve the public and in this case you know orienting the bay doors away from protected corridors turns out to have a negative

effect right we we saw from some of those photos that when you're on a you know especially a high-speed Corridor and all of the protective corridors it's kind of interesting they are very vehicular oriented right they're not they're not really heavy pedestrian corridors and if I'm in a pedestrian Corridor I would probably want to make sure that my bay doors not facing that Corridor but in a vehicular Corridor you get much more visualization from the path of travel which kind of forces you know when you're rotating that building away from the corridor to have the bay doors tilt towards you you're facing that line of traffic so it it really does have that opposite effect which is not the intention but it's just something you don't really see until sometimes it gets practiced right so I think we've all been there we've all written things and we felt that it was in the best best option and then we realize after the fact that had a little bit of a negative impact so we've been working with staff on trying to find a way to best address that without necessarily introducing additional you know unintended consequences um and so this is the language that that has been put together and the one thing that I'll say is that that you know you do have to have some trust in the site review team that's going to be making these decisions I think the way the language is worded with residential coming first and and the corridors being second kind of implies that hierarchial you know protection um if there was to be an amendment you could really outline it and say primarily you know the least visual impact on primarily residential units uses and secondarily corridors but that sounds maybe a little bit cumbersome as well or you know you could find some other way to kind of do that but I think that the language way it's written really kind of forces that through and again if you have trust in your site review team the residences are going to be protected right that's that's their whole intent of the the rest of the language that that's in the ordinance really kind of focuses on that

so I don't I think that you do have protection without necessarily having to add a bunch of additional language on here because this is not you know this is not doesn't exist in a bubble the whole rest of the ordinance that really outlines those goals for protection exist with this with this language um so with that said I know that there was some questions about the specifics of you know the intended use that that we came forward with and I'll explain some of that but I do want to kind of always want to preface and say as a reminder this is not limited to the you know the request in front of us this is Citywide so we don't want to focus too heavily on that but the the question came up so I want to kind of just you touch on it real quick so it was referenced that the Project's located wbor Marketplace um on Roser Avenue the specific lot is the one that's directly behind sheets okay so not on the Frontage but on that second row now to the north you do have some uh Apartments being another end designed I'm not sure what the construction schedule is on there um and so that lot you can't Orient the bay doors in either direction because it's either facing a corridor even though it's second row or the residential what our goal is to is to orient them towards sheets second row we have no interest in pushing bay doors towards a residential neighborhood right uh and so but there because that Corridor width extends Beyond just the front row commercial IT extends into that second row that second row also is held to the same standard of not facing towards either one so what our goal is to have that and push the building you the layout that we've developed pushes the building furthest away from the residential use orients the bay doors towards sheets which should not be offensive to anybody we we're neighbors with sheets in other locations so they're not offended by it um and then uh in talking to staff if if they have the ability to through this language

Amendment they would require an additional fence along that vegetative buffer so in addition to the automatic vegetation vegetative buffer which is a mixture of deciduous and evergreen trees and shrubs and some some width there to kind of provide that that year-long screening there's also an actual fence and that's not to protect it from the bay doors but it's an opportunity to prot protected from the headlights so as people Park as they vacuum their car or whatever there's additional screening and that doesn't exist in today's ordinance so you know the the the the real world application of this text we already had some you know initial discussions on what that would look like and so you know so you guys can kind of see and hear how that would be applied that's that's how it's being looked at on its first application yeah so for your specific um perspective use if we were to if the ordinance read all service bay doors shall face away from adjacent residential uses period and then said orientation shall face the Direction having the least visual impact on corridors could you Orient your use where it faced the corridor but did not did not face the residential use and that's what that's our intention yes yeah the only thing I think that you just hearing that language and I know that that's you know not down so it's kind of hard to like see but the the potential issue there is that I don't does that potentially open it up even if it's not directly adjacent to a residence if it was one door over and they're trying to protect a corridor it could potentially still face the residential neighborhood which may be closer than the actual Corridor and so that's where I think that you know that anytime we get into really rigid language um you're going to find scenarios like what we're seeing with with the instances and and and case studies that Allison put on on the screen which is that there's going to be

some applications where it's like it doesn't benefit anybody and I think that where this adds a level of subjectivity it actually but because it's a panel and not a single person's arbitrary decisions which I think all of us would rather avoid it does allow for some subjectivity to kind of really understand each individual lot and its configuration and what are the barriers in between it and residential uses and the corridors and and have that best applied again with all the other language that's in the ordinance to best protect those that need it and to to Mr Lee's you know point I think that I think all of us see that residential being Primary in that that effort we have another questions the app thank you very much thank you all right we are now going to open the public hearing for amendments to city code chapter 98 zoning ordinance article 4.41 vehicle sales and service article 4.6.7 car washes to change the orientation requirement for service bay doors open service bay doors openings public hearing now is now open do we have anyone signed up to speak we do not okay is there anybody who did not sign up who would like to speak on this issue all right hearing none I am going to close the public hearing previously aforementioned we have further discussion amongst ourselves I'd like to make a a comment uh this refers to the least visual impact on residential um I'm not as worried about that as as far as the noise impact for example like if you have a car I mean a tire place uh you have the impact hammers removing the the wheels and the quick release of air that can be very noisy if if those bay doors are facing a residential I could see that

being an issue there but that's the only thing that I could see being a problem so I would think the the team would try to if it is a some type of operation that would be you know noisy impact hamers and you know that kind of thing that they would really try to steer away from having the openings facing the residential so could we add to that at least Visual and noise impact just as an ideal the noise noise imps times or yeah so I think you know there's we're only touching one very small piece of the ordinance there's there's a noise ordinance and there's obviously zoning that puts certain uses you know that can't be adjacent to other uses and some that require a special use permit like vehicle sales and service requires a special use permit in some districts whereas by right and Commercial um so I just want to keep in mind kind of all those pieces the reason staff used visual is because the I guess maybe wrongly thinking like the orientation of the doors was more of a visual impact but certainly your site review team is looking at mitigating all impacts to the extent that we feel like you know we have teeth within our ordinance to do so um so definitely looking at you know where the vacuums placed where are the bay doors where are the you know where are kind of you know like a lot of car washes have kind of vacuum areas that are separate and so our ordinance doesn't say anything about where they can locate so we felt like the doors were the way our current ordinance um identified them was intending to fix a visual problem because you know we we don't have any requirement about where the Vacuums at a car wash face they can face a resident they can be on the

residential side um so no ordinance is perfect but we felt like this was a way of hoping um to get that like um caseby casee review looking at the topography how it sets screening maybe it's facing toward residential but maybe that residential is you know three Parcels away I don't know you know it some of those things get tricky in an ordinance but H how would this and maybe this is a question for the applicant with this being behind the sheets which would then be adjacent to the Texas Roadhouse how is that traffic impact projected to have an effect on the surrounding areas so I I I'll just I guess point out that the property is zoned for business development um the market Marketplace that entire development did a traffic impact analysis um that covers kind of the full range of buildout and maximum buildout that could exist um and so that has already been evaluated and and looked at I don't know if they have any specific numbers on this use but I know that their traffic impact analysis would have definitely factored in a higher generating traffic use than this because we kind of require them to look at that maximum number yeah I think that was a part of when we I may be totally misremembering this when we changed part of that development from residential back to commercial right didn't we look at the traffic on that as a part of that process yeah I think kind of looking at that previous traffic impact analysis to say hey this is what they did all this to factor in and then now if we're tinkering with it it's still captured within that original study yeah so I I think the question

is do we have significant reservations about the current proposed text and it allowing orientation leaving that issue of whether or not to allow orientation towards adjacent residential uses um or any residential uses are we comfortable with that leaving that decision in the hands of the site review team or do we feel like we need to Tinker with the language of this so that it creates a higher degree of preference for orientation away from residential usage I am inclined to leave this in the hands of a site review team though I understand why other folks might not be comfortable doing so and rather than just say no to this outright I would much rather give staff an opportunity to create that preference and create the flexibility because again I think what we have here is two separate issues we have the issue of impact conflicting potentially conflicting uses or uses lawful uses in of residential and commercial that may create impacts one between the other and then we have the issue of orientation and and visual appeal along the corridors and I think we could probably address the corridor I don't it strikes me that the corridor part is not necessarily particularly controversial the residential part I think is what we're all concerned about so the question I think is are we prepared to vote on this um and is there a motion to adopt this as written or would we like would someone like to Tender a motion to ask staff to to investigate more language that would create a preference for nonresident for impact on res minimizing the impact on residential

does that make sense or have I totally talked myself in a circle I I mean I would I would have more reservations if it was somewhere other than the marketplace because because the car wash isn't going to have any more impact on Brandon lad apartments and the new apartments than the sheets the Texas Roadhouse and the car wash across the street in front of Martin already had well but remember though that while this impact may not trouble us it's the next impact down the road I think I think it's important to what you just said it's very is that this ordinance affects the city yeah so me in my position as an elected official I have to look at speci city so I I have reservations on the impact that this may have on the city not just the market that's that's all right so it sounds to me like we need a motion to ask staff to to carry this over over to another meeting and ask staff to propose language that create that has some higher degree of difference or some protection thank you protect higher degree of protection for residential uses so um let me ask staff this question do you want us to you probably don't want us to vote peace meal on you want me to take all the residential stuff out and we can just vote on the corridor thing or do you want us do we want to polish up this existing and I can just back of the nap in the language real quick but yeah I

guess either way it's a recommendation to council so then we would be taking it to Council in multiple parts I mean I guess my thought would be um just have us bring it back to you kind of as a comprehensive thing at a future meeting if that's what You' like to see and will that are we going to because it's going to be additional text changes to the proposal is that going to require another public hearing well likely I mean I guess it depends on how material they are when we get into it but you know likely just for the sake you know just to keep things obviously open to the public will probably hold another public hearing yeah right because I'd like I mean obviously we've got somebody who wants to build a business in the city and so I'd like to address this quickly if we can sure um so yeah recognizing that we only meet once if we put more restriced language in there are we taking away the authority of the site review to be flexible in their evaluation of the site I mean right now the site review team is limited in when somebody comes in to do a development we're looking at okay you can't face it that way and you can't face it that way the ordinance you just you can't you can't um so that's the way the ordinance is currently we obviously have control and opinions on other specifics in a site plan um this language was a desire to try and mitigate visual impacts not only to the corridor but to residences um but through discretion of the site review team and it sounds like there's still um you know some desire to have a more formalized um clearer protection against res Residential Properties and I don't know we'll have to think through whether that's a certain distance away whether um we'll have to think through that and

a little bit more sounds like if that's all right so do yeah do we have a motion I move that we table this to our next scheduled meeting and allow for staff to make the uh proper uh recommendations and details surrounding the impact to uh real EST State and residential neighborhoods all right um does Staff feel like that motion gives them the right set of things to think about specifically based on the feedback that we've given today yeah I think we could come up with some options um some different options um whether that be removing the residential alog together that could be one option one could be focusing potentially on second tier you know defining what facing residential means because that is a little open-ended so maybe we need to do a little bit of work in kind of specifying what that means and then also maybe clarifying separately what a first tier entrance Corridor property as a proposed to a second tier although it doesn't sound like the entrance Corridor is of much concern um but I think kind of clarifying what that means to face residential um could be something that we we could look at let me ask before we vote on this because I want to make sure we got a clear motion is does anybody feel like they want they need staff to look at or think about the entrance Corridor component of this or is it just the residential part that we're concerned about I think it's just the res just the res I just want to make sure you guys are equipped with the RO all right so with that um M we have a motion from Mr

Stewart seconded by Mr Lee all in favor I any opposed all right hearing none motion carries the matter will be set over to the next regular Planning Commission meeting all right um we've been going for an hour and 45 minutes does anybody want to take a f minute break or we going to keep marching through all right next on the agenda we have the prelimin public hearing ing preliminary public hearing preliminary major Subdivision plat request by DR Horton agent for District spring Farm LLC owner for 180 lot residential subdivision on 28396 Acres located at zero Duke Lo Road wesboro Virginia portion of tax map number 16-1 DB also known as hman Ridge part of the Smith Farm puug take it away thank you okay so this uh P plat uh P major Subdivision plat is located at the Smith Farm PUD um it's actually located right behind the uh Parkway Village and Summit towns Summit Town sub Parkway Village is this area located directly behind there it encompasses about 28396 Acres that's a portion of the overall Smith Farm property which is 147 Acres um so this is a pimary um uh major Subdivision plary plat request um this is for specifically The hopan Ridge Development Area um part of the Smith Farm PUD It Is by right with no waivers um which means there's no City discretion to deny as long as the applicant satisfies the requirements of the ordinance in this case you have um zoning and subdivision ordinances but also that Cod of development that was approved with the resoning um uh late last year uh so

just to refresh our memory this is the concept plan for the Smith Farm PUD um and the plary plat tonight is for this Development Area right here Hopman Ridge um it is for 180 townhouse units and it does follow the concept plan that was shown in that Cod of development um it will be built in two phases phase one will include Half the units 90 units um three of the parking areas and most of the amenities uh that are included in this uh section of the Pud and also the turn lane improvements on hopin Parkway that are required phase two will include the remaining 90 units the remaining parking areas and the open green area um here is a look at the overall layout uh the sort of pink color uh is phase one and then the blue color is phase two a better look at the overall layout of the development um so this is zoned PUD planned unit development um the coded development um had a maximum of 180 units in this Hopman Ridge Development Area and the plat does show that 180 units or 180 Lots um zoning ordinance requires a 2,000t lot size minimum for townhouse units and all Lots shown on the plat do meet this requirement ranging from 2,000 square feet to 6,400 square fet um the comp plan does designate this as L Dei residential um this development the overall PUD did cluster developments in specific development areas um with a 400 unit cap on the overall unit number for that PUD which averages out to about 2.75 units per acre across the entire property um and the property do also include so by clustering those developments it protected the more

sensitive environmental areas and also include of course that uh that would be eventually donated as a park uh and IT staff does feel that this complies with the comprehensive plan um so the code of development required certain open space improved open space amenities be provided with each Development Area uh the code development required um a mix of community Trails picnic area playground green and then the greenway Trail as part of hob and Ridge Development Area and the preliminary plat does show these amenities um this plat doesn't include about a little over a half mile of that Greenway Trail would be constructed with this part of the development and it does meet the um Cod of developments requirements um here are the community trails in yellow which are actually kind of hard to see uh you have the playground and picnic area uh right there and then you have the open green area here and then that Greenway trail that spreads across the back of the property here um as far as Street design goes um there will be 52 foot public rights away provided throughout the development which means uh the streets will be about 27 ft wide curb to curb 22 foot wide travel Lanes there will be no on street parking permitted within the development um and that's due to the fire department's requirements of that 20 foot through Lane uh 5ot sidewalks along with 6ft buffer strips we provided along each side of the streets um and then also Street trees and this is a quick look at that typical Road section showing those elements as far as parking's concerned uh townhouse developments do require 2.5 spaces per unit this is 180 units so it would require 450 spaces two spaces will be provided by the um single car garage and driveway which is about 360 spaces and the remaining 90 spaces required will be spread out in parking areas

throughout the development circled in green here access to the development will be through the summit Town subdivision at Carmen and Telford drives an additional point of access will eventually be provided through the Westfield through to the Westfield Development Area which will then eventually connect out to the ivy common subdivision um and so there's that connection to the the summit Town subdivision to the South um turn lane uh turn Lan Warr analyses were conducted during the um Smith Farm PUD resoning process and those analysis identified that left turn Lanes would be warranted on hopan Parkway um those those improvements would be triggered by development of the Hopman Ridge um area um and those left turn Lanes would be at Bridge Bridge Avenue and then also at that entrance to the Food Lion um and phase one of the development does include these turn lane improvements um It's actually kind of hard to see but uh up here is shows that left turn lane um left turn lane at Bridge Avenue there's a right turn taper here to go into Carmen Drive The Summit towns it's that area down here and then up a little F farther the food line entrance you have that same you have the left turn lanes and food line into the development of carment here and then a right turn taper on as far as utilities are concerned Public Water and Sewer will be available to serve this site um the applicants did submit hydraulic analysis that was reviewed by Public Works to ensure that the demand could be met for this particular development um there will be three storm Water Management areas um in the development one on the uh I guess is at the East side of the property and then two on the western side of the property um and final overall configuration of the utilities and then also the storm water will be reviewed and approved

during the next step in the process which is that public Improvement plan review [Music] phase um it is in William School District so it is likely to cause an increase of students for the William Perry Elementary School then also our middle and high schools um and at this point there isn't concerns about capacity although as we heard tonight the high school does have more concern in that regard um standards of the ordinances do appear to have been met um and that includes the zoning and subdivision ordinances and then also that approved code of development um and staff is therefore recommending approval the applicants are here tonight to answer any questions and then I'm happy to take any I have one question about the staff report it looks like that the um excerpt the the picture of the food line entrance tord Drive didn't we M didn't we ask them to when they moved that so that it aligned with that yes okay so I so the in the picture on in the staff report it looks like it's not maybe it's just me it looks like it's not quite align but your picture there it appears to be aligned so maybe it's just but that those two that is aligned now should be aligned with the yeah that's the one right that was off by a little and we asked them to when they yeah and then maybe I'll ask the applicant the other question do we have any other questions for staff no thank you thank you now hear from the applicant uh I'm Logan OD day I'm a project manager at Tim's group here representing the applicant happy to feeli any questions I think alexand did a great job presenting um the development like she said 180 town home units as part of the the P the approved PUD um it gener the uh somebody did a very

good job putting together the concept plan and the Pud because we were able to comply with it very very well was well thought out um there's a lot of additional parts of this P that make it exciting the the 0.62 miles of Greenway trail that she spoke about um there's there was a stream restoration project uh kind of through the middle of the Pud that's already been conducted and preserved there'll be Parkland dedicated as part of the Pud so we're we're really excited to see this come to life I'm happy to answer any questions you have I have I just have two quick ones it looks like at the can we go back to the the Tim's drawing overall drawing sorry yeah so the the original site plan that we that was part of the Pud showed the road at the very far right as having 90 degree right hand turns and now it looks like those are T intersections is there an anticipated additional inter paral connection down there somewhere or is that just to get parking I'm just curious why that changed no I think the T intersections just make more sense in that case when you have um roads that are that far apart trying to get the radius the appr appri radius for a wboro or V do standard Road can be difficult so having them be T intersections kind of eliminates that need makes the traffic stop and then begin to turn rather than you know going full speed around a super tight turn like that so instead of and maybe it was just that the original drawing didn't account for and it may not have accounted for spacing but those are going be T traffic controlled T intersections with a stop sign right that's correct all right that's just my only that was my only question I just noticed that changed from the original thank you plan anybody else have any questions for the applicant thank you so much for your time thank you we're now going to open

the public hearing on the preliminary major Subdivision plat request by DR Horton agent for District spring Farm LLC owner for 180 lot residential subdivision 12839 6 Acres located at zero Duke Road wboro Virginia portion of tax map number 16-1 DB also known as hopan Ridge part of the Smith Farm PD the public hearing is now open we have anybody signed up to speak we do have one signed up Lydia Peterson miss Peterson yes hello everybody um I've spoken to you before and here I am again I continue to have uh grave reservations about this development as you know you wouldn't be surprised uh since I live right across the street from it continue to be very concerned about the amount of traffic that will be increased and I I want to clarify a couple things because I can't I I can't really see this and of course no yeah I believe that's just the address of the entire parcel so if you want to go back maybe to the we can go back to the map and you can see this is that portion there so Duke Road is that kind of circular that's up on that end yes it's not part of this specific preliminary plat no ma'am no no yeah no so this just so um this is for just that hopan Ridge section this larger planned unit development is still approved under the zoning and they will be able to come back with future

preliminary plats but yes the District home as part of the code of development is planned to be taken down but it's not with this specific area that we're reviewing this evening correct me if I'm wrong there's a certain there's a there's a before they proceed to a certain phase sure yes they have to yes so they can build and construct a certain number and I don't remember exactly what they were but they I want to try and make sure we answer this question they can construct a certain number of units and but before we'll issue any occupancy permits for unit number let's just say this is not the number 100 they can build one through 100 but after 101 they can't we won't issue them the occupancy permit until the District home is taken down is that something along those yeah so the information about The District home is that the District home will be demolished and properly disposed of within 90 calendar days of site plan or Subdivision plat approval for the Streamside Development Area so that is over yes so we're reviewing a different area this evening rockish

uh it's it's it's not what was in the original um vision for this property and um I I also have concerns continuing concerns about you know the talk about visual design now how tall are these these tow houses going to be yeah are they going to be three story I don't know if anybody else drives down this road as often as I do but you know we have now all of these huge three-story uh tow houses that we can't see the mountains anymore you know they're just just totally obliterating I don't know you you've heard the neighbors Express their concerns before and you know you've chosen not to take that into account and so there's probably little that we can do at this point other than to continue to express our concerns that this is not the direction that this area should be going in this was supposed to be a park it was supposed to be for the good of everybody in in the area uh and instead we've got more commercial development more town houses more growth more more traffic uh anyway thank you for listening thank you very much do we have anybody else signed up we do not do we have anybody else here who wishes to speak uh at the public hearing all right um with that I'm going to close the forementioned public Hearing in this matter um do we have any discussion no

discussion all right do we have a motion so move all right so we have a make sure I get this right motion to approve the preliminary major Subdivision plat um that's was just the subject of the public hearing we have a second I'll second all right all in favor I any opposed hearing non motion carries all right next on the agenda we have a review of minor subdivisions and final subdivision plats approved since the February 18th 2025 meeting I do not have any of those for you this evening excellent next we have public comment for period for items not on the agenda do we have anybody here who wants to talk about something that was not on tonight's agenda great matter from staff um I I guess the only thing that I would like to mention briefly is that we have kicked off our work with our consultant epr PC that'll be running our comprehensive plan um so we've kicked off that work um we're in the very very early stages um of formulating an advisory committee um and of doing that work a lot of public Outreach and surveys and and public meetings will happen kind of on the front end of of that so as we get more formalized schedules we'll be bringing all of that to you is that Mr Co will cockroll fir is doing yes okay all right I just and that I just wanted to clarify thank you very much uh Commissioners correspondence and communication only thing I would like to say is that this is the first of the Duke farm that we're going to be reviewing there seems to be a a lot of confusion in the

community that this is by right and I don't know how to what's the best approach to educate the public well we I mean just briefly there is a bill going through the State Assembly that if signed by the governor would remove the um public hearing platting process that we bring to you it would remove it from your hands and it you know we would have to amend our ordinance to take that away um so I think that would certainly clear up some of the confusion when they hear like oh there's another is something changing um because we did get calls about that and tried to clarify that no it's not a change they're doing everything per the approved plan it's just that next step um so likely in the near future we won't be bringing plats to you your rezoning decisions would be where it ends and then your staff would look at these plans and approve them administratively yeah and I without Rel litigating this entire issue there are some people that are never going to be happy with us no matter what we do and um and I appreciate their perspective and I'm glad they keep showing up um but this this was a by right you're right and um you know and that's kind of the beginning and the end of it in my opinion yeah I mean all right do we have a motion second all in favor I any opposed hearing none motion carries we are journ thank you all