Redevelopment Authority - Regular Meeting

So it's past six o'clock, 6.03 p.m. I'd like to call the Monday, August 17th, 2026 meeting to order. I don't see any public here, so there's no public comment. Move on to item number three, approval of the minutes. So moved. I'll second. Okay, I don't see anybody against, so I'm gonna say that that passed by unanimous consent. Moves us up into number four, the business items. We're gonna turn it over to Jeff for update on redevelopment authority loan programs.

When he gets there. DEFAULTS TO ADJOURN ON THESE THINGS.

OH, YES. WE'VE GOT TWO MEMBERS NOT HERE. WE HAVE A QUORUM.

SO, YEAH, LIKE I SAID, IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE WE'VE MET. THESE ARE THE LOAN AND GRANT NUMBERS. Not a lot of change. The storefront activation, we had a full payoff of a loan, and we continue to get monthly payments. So that one's starting to build up again. We have some interest in a few businesses downtown to maybe tap into that. A guy who applied who just bought the Metropolitan building is looking to do some upgrades. So he applied. He's coming to sign his paperwork yet. So it continues to be a pretty popular program. THE HODAG, THE RENTAL REHAB GRANT HAS NOT SEEN MUCH CHANGE. THE REHAB PROGRAM CONTINUES AGAIN TO BE fairly popular for residents. Maybe not as much so before because there is a requirement that they have to repay it. So a lot of them go into Waukesha County Home Funds where it's no interest in deferred payment, but we're still getting a few applications here and there for that. And then the Affordable Housing Development Fund, Habitat, is paid back with interest all but one of loans on Dominica Park that one should be wrapping up fairly the next couple weeks so get that back and we have committed that additional at the last meeting committed additional six hundred thousand dollars for the three projects they're doing over by the hospital on Madison and Caldwell that's the status of that and then that's kind of it if there's any questions on this

So the outstanding funds committed for the affordable housing development fund of $800,000, that's for the three projects we approved. Three projects plus an additional $200,000 for the other Dominican Park that will get paid back.

I anticipate we'll have that money by September. They're just finishing up that. Once they get occupancy and they actually transfer it to the Habitat family, that's when we get our money and interest from them. I mean, with that program, we've generated quite a bit of interest just from those habitat loans. I want to say we're probably about $17,000, $18,000 in interest just from those loans. So it's kind of nice that those are short and they're turning around fast. We're getting the money back to make this fund a little bit larger. We have had quite a bit of discussion. So the WIDA, the Tax Credit Affordable Housing Plan, came out, and we've had discussions several. It's fun towards that none of her dress to the point of bringing forward, but There's some sites that people have identified for additional housing where we think we can use this Does habitat have anything in the pipeline other than the three that they're working on now they own a property it's kind of a unique property on Moreland as you go up the hill before Buena Vista and You'll see there's kind of a grassy area and a big hill there on the right-hand side if you're going up the hill, the Marland Hill between, I guess. That's the one without a driveway access. It doesn't have a driveway access. However, since it is a lot of record, we have to give them a driveway access. So you can't just say you can't do anything with this property because it's an official parcel.

is something that they'd have to pay for, tearing down the brick wall.

They will have to. Well, they came up with a plan, and engineering has looked at it, and I think it's viable. Where that driveway access will come closer to the top of the hill, where it's kind of so they can meet the grades that our fire department requires. So they're thinking about doing a duplex on there. They have a layout that works. The driveway, I think we've got that situated. There's some easements for utilities to that site. So potentially that might come forward. But I think their priority, their main priority right now is those Madison Street. And hopefully, as the E.W. Waukesha site goes forth, they might be a part of that as well. Just a small part of that.

Okay, thank you. I heard in the Freeman that they were going to announce that on September 10th. And I think there is some habitat concerns. my hand in there.

Yeah, it's not a lot of it, but they were able to kind of carve out a nice chunk for them. Okay, this one, I don't see the applicant here, so let's skip ahead to the complex. This one, and if he doesn't come, I'll kind of go over this later, but if you don't mind, we can move ahead to the comp plan. The next part of the Oh, we've got to do elections, sorry. I apologize. I forgot about the elections. That's okay. So, yeah, we haven't done elections. I usually would do this in May, but we haven't had a meeting since April. So basically we're looking for a chairman, and the vice chair would just fill in when the chairman is not here. I don't know if anybody's interested, if Rick's still interested.

I would be welcome to do it again, but if somebody wants to do it.

I'll nominate Rick. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

If I need a second, I'll give it a second. Okay.

Well, it should.

Okay.

Having a first and a second. All those in favor? Aye. I'll vote for myself, too. So that passed unanimously. And then we need to take a nomination for the election of RDA vice chair. Who's our current vice chair? I don't know if we had one. I think in the last six years.

We haven't really done them, but we thought it's going to be in case Rick's not here, that someone. Most seven-number committees have a vice, a chair and a vice chair. Yeah, and I think in the past we have had it in the past, but then we don't know if we ever.

Would anybody like to put their name in for vice chair? That's fine. Because I know when you were missing a couple times, Jim said, hey, do you want to set your mind?

So we have a nomination, a first for Jerry. We just need a second. I'll second. So we have a first and a second. So all those in favor, vote aye. Aye. Aye.

self-nominated. I don't think I could self-nominate.

You can.

Yeah, you can do that.

You can?

Yeah. Okay, fine. We have a guest. If you could just identify yourself. I know you're here for the Cherry Faith development, but if you could introduce yourself to the committee.

Absolutely. My name is DeJuan Cherry, principal developer for Cherry Faith Properties.

We might Yeah, so good to meet you and welcome to the meeting. We'll get to you in just a moment. Thank you.

Was the seconder in that? You're the seconder on the first one. On the first, on Rick's I did. You're the second. Nice of you to step in there on the meeting in the morning.

agenda is ID number 26-04204, affordable housing development fund consultation.

So the reason we're doing this as a consultation is we're not quite ready to recommend funding for this. We think it's a great project. We just need some more information, more information on other funding sources. The intent of our funding is supposed to be to fill a gap. I know the applicants have been working with a lot of different funding sources. But we do want to bring it forward to you, kind of get the appetite and just kind of introduce the project and if you have any questions about it. But the reason we just want to see what the full funding pitch to what that should be so this property is just off of White Rock and and Moreland and you can see all right so it's on Niagara and to the south you can see former navistar property this was a part this is a parking lot right now and it's just people i think it's just being used for storage of trailers and stuff but you can see there's a lot of residential around it so we think it's a very good site for housing it still is zoned industrial and in the comp plan it shows the industrial but we think obviously with navistar closing and this being in a neighborhood that it would be an appropriate site for some housing. The other thing of note is this has gone to Planning Commission, I believe you've been to Planning Commission once or twice.

Second time. What's that? The recent one was the two times. It was the second time.

Yeah, so the first one was a little bit more dense. It had a taller building on it. I think the neighbors, it seemed a little bit too dense for the neighborhood. It's more like two single family, two family. There's a little apartment building on the corner that's also two-story. So hearing the concerns of the neighbors, came forward with this new concept, which is again more neighborhood scale, and it's kind of this unique layout of a series of buildings here to kind of give it that sort of single family sort of feel, but it's a multifamily development. So you have these series of buildings here, parking kind of tucked behind it. And this would be 20 units of housing put onto the property. The next thing of note is here's kind of the style. So again, right, that two-story. We have the pitched roofs, which again ties into the neighborhood. If you go down like Niagara, a lot of really steep pitched roofs. So we think it fits in really nice with the neighborhood there. I believe there's some positive comments at Planning Commission when he came in for a consultation as well about this. And here's the rendering, so you can get a little bit better idea of how this would look when they're constructed. So it's just kind of a, you know, it's got a lot of architectural detail. It's got some recesses and projections in the facade with these porches. So it kind of encourages that street-level activity, similar to the other residents there that are kind of built up towards the street. And here's another picture of the houses, the continued edge of the grain, the property too. So this right now is the capital stack. In the pro forma that I printed off, again, I apologize. I should have printed out 11 by 17. It comes off as kind of small. But this is kind of the current capital stack right now? Yes. So he's looking probably at us for $675,000 in RDA funding. I think the previous one was $720,000. We just want to get a better idea of the numbers and the other funding sources. I know you're seeking out home funds and stuff like that. So we kind of want to get a better picture of that before we nail down a number. But we do want an opportunity to come and talk to the RDA about this project and thoughts on it and thoughts on funding. So I guess if you have anything else you want to add to this? I don't want to take any action time, but we do want to kind of get it in front of you. The Meadow site, as you know, didn't really work out. The current owner decided not to want to participate in it. So the RDA back in April withdrew that funding commitment. So the money has free backup for a project like this. So yeah, if you want to add anything else to it.

Yeah, no, absolutely. I just kind of waited. Yeah, but thank you. I appreciate that summary. Yeah, so when I was here about, I want to say this time last year, over what the property, and you know, I believe the property owner, we were very transparent about that, about how we wanted the project. He wanted to be involved in the project as well too. You know, I think, you know, just in terms of what I want to focus on, we talked about it. It was housing for, you know, people with intellectual and developmental disabilities. Not everyone can grasp that concept. So it's one of those projects where, you know, I've had conversations with a lot of residents and either this is something we can scrap or we can just find another site. And so I want to say about a month and a half or so of just searching for different sites and things like that. Found another site, which is the Niagara vacant lot. Quickly put it under contract, and we went right to work on it. Doug Kohler, he, you know, great comments in terms of, you know, what the density would look like. So immediately we wanted to, of course, try to maximize as many units as we possibly can. So the reason we were at 24, we dented down to 20 units, and we're still able to make that work in the pro forma. Obviously, when you're, you know, dealing with construction and things like that. You want to try to maximize as many units as possible, but also at the same time, you don't want to make anything too massive for the neighborhood. So we agreed to 20 units. We were able to kind of tweak the funding a little bit, as you see in the sources there, and still make sure that we're now the general contractor still involved with the process in terms of value engineering it, making sure that we're able to, you know, really tight-knit this thing to make sure that, you know, we're still serving our, you know, potential residents that have disability and still make sure that the ones that are market rate are served as well too, meaning that we have, you know, we wanted to focus on, okay, what would be the proper square footage of affordable unit where it's still a quality, it's still has quality finishes to still have, you know, things in mind, whether it's, you know, in units, washer and dryers, making sure that, you know, they have access to potential balconies and things like that. So we still want to make sure that we, you know, design a building that, you know, still has quality in terms of those affordable units, but also, you know, quality in terms of the market rate units as well, too. So 550 550 square feet will be the affordable units. 700 square feet would be the market rate units for the one bedroom. For the two bedroom affordable, we're looking at about 750. And for the market rate units, we're looking at about 1,000 to 150 square feet. And so just trying to value engineers look at the cost to make sure that, you know, the, you know, we have decent numbers, right? We're able to, you know, get some numbers. So roughly 5.5 is what we're aiming for, for construction budget, which is pretty good. You know, I've seen numbers that are much, much higher than that in terms of price per square, excuse me, price per unit. So we're just able to value engineer this thing where our construction budget is comfortable. And we're able to pretty much serve our tenants. Other than that, talking about the capital stack. So I do have a term sheet from MEDC. So MEDC and the Waukesha Growth Fund are combining their funds. So they're looking at about 1.9 and combined funds there. So I do have a term sheet listed there. Excuse me? I've spoken to Kristen from the Waukesha Home Funds. Our first meeting will be in September. They are waiting for another developer to see if they were able to get lights. I was told that they were not. So we could potentially get extra funds. I don't know. But it's going to be based upon expectations. squeeze in. So that process starts in September. I won't be able to show a term sheet until we go through the second round. But I would say for right now, we're looking at about a 1.1 in home funds right now. That is, if that does change, I will obviously, you know, let the RDA know about that. But I'll say in terms of, you know, maximizing our funding, we're looking about 1.1. FOCUS ON ENERGY GRANT, SO I DO HAVE A, IT'S NOT A TERM SHEET, BUT I'LL SAY A LETTER FROM FOCUS ON ENERGY TO SHOWCASE THAT WE DO HAVE 19-9 ENERGY GRANT, SO WE WILL BE USING ENERGY EFFICIENCIES THROUGHOUT THE BUILDING, SO EVERYTHING FROM FINISHES TO JUST WINDOWS, THINGS LIKE THAT, WE'LL BE USING ANYTHING THAT'S ENERGY EFFICIENT THROUGHOUT THE BUILDING. Other than that, the last piece, excuse me, senior debt. So I'm working with a mortgage broker right now. So of course, mortgage brokers, they send it out to about 20 different lenders to see which one's going to be the, you know, get the best, our best terms more than anything. We have not identified a senior lender so far. It's just been verbal conversation. But once we've identified a senior lender, then ultimately that will be the piece of saying, okay, we have, you know, term sheets from, or excuse me, A committed senior lender, and I think that would be, I think, pretty much from other sources of funds or funding, they've pretty much been asking the same question. Who is your senior lender? Then that would give us the confidence of saying, you know, you can go about this process. But just want to make sure that that's up front. Our senior lender has not been identified. You know, we're, yeah, that's pretty much it. What's up?

That's kind of why we weren't quite ready to recommend approval of a number or anything or really dig down into it. We want to see what that's going to be and then look at the overall capital stack, figure out a per unit cost that makes sense, that works with us and with the developer.

If we approve the City of Waukesha loan for about 675, according to the numbers there, what percentage of our loan fund does that use up and how long would the term of the loan be?

Yes, we haven't really done that. Well, last one we did like a 30. Yeah, last one, what did we do? It's just ideas. Was the last one 20 years? 30 years? Yeah, that was 30 years.

Yes, 30 years, 1%. That would be payment penalties.

Yeah. Yeah, let's go back to our fund here. Our fund.

Let's go back to... IN THERE WITH THE HABITAT ONE GETTING PAID BACK IN A COUPLE OF WEEKS. THAT'LL GO TO LIKE 1.4-ISH.

JEFF, YOU COVERED THIS EARLIER, BUT THE LOAN FUNDS THAT ARE THERE THAT CAN HAVE FUNDING FROM TIP EXTENSION, ARE YOU ANTICIPATING ANYTHING THERE? SO RIGHT NOW, WE DON'T HAVE ANY CLOSING THIS YEAR.

We have one coming in 27, so we'll take a look at that when that comes and decide if it's worthy. Some of our districts, one of the problems is now we kind of go to the one-site districts, so we have to weigh, okay, if you're only getting a certain amount, is it worth it? We do have a couple of bigger ones coming up, bigger districts coming up, but those are a little further down the road where there could be a bigger bump where it's got multi-parcels. But we'll look at the one in 27 and see if it makes sense to extend that to build those funds up a little bit more.

Thank you. I'm just looking at the last. So it would be lower on the debt amount, but the structure will stay the same. So we had 1% interest over 30 year, no prepayment penalty. First two years from time of disbursement payments, maybe interest only. So the structure will stay the same. It's just I would come in and request a lower amount. The last one was 720, so we would come in

much lower than that. Yeah, I think once we dialed on all the sources, we kind of hit a number, and the staff would be comfortable with recommending it.

Originally, my thoughts were that the site was, the apartment and development was too big for the site, but then when I did a Google search, I saw the big building off to the right, you know, two stories, and then I saw the empty NavStar, because I did know where it was. And then I became saying, yeah, I'm in favor of that project. The only question I had, maybe you can just answer it because I'm not an expert on it. I thought for 20 units, only having 27 parking spaces was not adequate. But maybe just give me your thoughts on that. So we have... So we have...

20, we have 21 surface parking areas and six enclosed.

So 27.

as this comes forward, like how does that fit into the zone?

Yeah, that was my only, and it wasn't a killing point. I just wanted to see if you thought that that was enough. I mean, where some of the low-income housing, they don't have cars, so that's not going to become a problem. I mean, that's what my thought was.

Yeah, so it's hard to tell in the beginning, only because there's some, you know, because of the population that we intend to serve, there's some that just don't drive. who's going to be driving, who's not, until we start vetting out actual tenants. And that will be when we're six months or so into construction when we start pre-leasing. It's hard to tell, to be honest with you. We could be in a situation where, you know, all of our tenants drive, even with disabilities, because I personally work with adults that have disability and drive. And there could be some that have a transportation, which we want to partner. I've spoken to Journey 21, and they don't, typically they don't, they have three transportation options. So they have three buses, but they only go in certain areas. So we are discussing, okay, what if it's just a service that you charge us if we're able to use your transportation services? Once again, I don't know until we get into vetting out who's going to be living in a specific unit. Are they driving? Do they not have a car? So I just won't know that.

And I do know that there is some street parking. there i don't see a problem with some cars parking on the street but that's always you want to try to keep it in yeah but you know i mean an overnight stay or something like that i would want to avoid that i did have a so after our plan commission

Excuse me, my throat is really dry, so excuse me. After my original second plan commission consultation, we actually had a community meeting. And so the alderman was there. He helped, Mike, he helped facilitate a great community meeting. The news press and I believe it was the same people that showed up to the consultation as well too. So we actually had a great meeting. One of the property owners, I believe she lives further down on Niagara Street. She actually brought the same concern about parking. I do want to create a situation where it's just contained on our property because she did mention that there's some events and people just park Yeah, so I don't know what that situation is, but I would like to contain it, ultimately.

Yeah, we noticed, so for the notice there, just for your, just so you guys are aware, when we do a neighborhood, we do 300 feet. Okay. Does anyone have anything? I think actually, I think Mike's going to go maybe a little further to kind of catch some of that. They were pretty logical looking at a map, like, okay, this property should be added to that 300 feet. Yeah.

yes i do just a question on the tenants so i know you've done another development like this before with the ada consideration maybe just for the benefit of the group how do you go about seeking tenants for the Do you have a feeder program through the state or just kind of run us through how that works?

Yeah, so I typically try to partner with local nonprofits, so like Easterseals, for example, or Journey 21. I know Lutheran, they're a property management service, but I will say they have, you know, kind of organizations that they work with as well, too. But I will say I did contact the executive director for Easterseals. She hasn't gotten back to me yet, but I would want to work with local partners in the area. What they do, they not only specialize in their services, but they'll say, okay, this is a client of ours that is able to live by themselves. This is the work profile. So they'll kind of have their own separate vetting out situation, but then we will look to a Lutheran social service to do the property management. So just from partnering with an organization like Journey 21 or Easter Seals, they would kind of give us an ideal candidate that could live by themselves, that has a work history and things like that. But then as soon as we think we have a great tenant, then we want to have a, I guess you say a second layer vetted out through Lutheran social services as well too, just to make sure that everything is clear. Because, of course, they want housing for their client, but we also want to make sure that that extra layer is there as well, too, from our property management service to actually go out with credit checks, background checks, things like that for additional verification. So, yeah. I hope that answers your question.

Yes, thank you.

Any other questions from the audience? Are you looking for any specific feedback from us, Jeff? Yeah, I mean, I guess kind of looking at the project, the Planning Commission seems on board with the project as the consultation goes. Funding level, again, we just want to, at this point, we kind of think that's 600, maybe a little high in comparison to what we, that we give 720 for 36 units, but we want to get a better picture before we actually make an informed decision on what we recommend for funding. We kind of try to break it down on a per unit basis and how much money we're providing per unit for these projects. So that's kind of why we didn't want to take any action, but we did want to come in front of you, give an update on the site, on this new site that he found, and kind of the new development product that's going forward here, just to get some feedback on the project. Obviously, it's something the RDA feels like they could do potential funding without committing to a number.

My feeling is that while 625 is a high for 30 years for 20 units, the important part is getting affordable housing, which the city needs. And it's always a hard thing to get affordable housing. This looks like a nice project, you know, like a 50-50. my idea always with affordable housing is let's try to make affordable housing with some market rate so that it, it blends and it makes the whole community stronger rather than just having one building of affordable housing and, and, the stigma that goes with that. These are kind of 50-50 where they can all assimilate together and get to know each other and help each other out. That's my thought, anyhow.

I would agree. I believe there's one affordable housing development on the other end by Bayer. Yeah, there's... Yeah.

There's two buildings, the Spring City Cross is a spare development. So you have the four-story on one side and you have the two-story stacked flat on the other side. That was the last affordable housing development we've had in the city, aside from Habitat, single-family homes.

And I don't know, I would say, I always say I don't know what's true and what's not. I'm always leaning on local community members. One of the, there was someone that commented on that. I say I completely agree with you. Where I'm going with this is there was someone that commented that it's kind of negative towards that development. believe that's all affordable or income restricted. I'm not sure the full picture with that, but I would say, I think there was a lot of negative comments on that one. And she was just, she was, she wanted it. She loved it, but she also shared that same sentiment of, okay, how can we, how can we have more affordable housing? But how can we make sure that something like that doesn't happen here? I don't go into too much because like I said, I don't know what was true and what was not, but yeah, I would say I think that is the key of mixing in the two, of having affordable units and market rate units, and as you mentioned, just blending them in together. I think that's, I've seen a lot of successful developments ran like that, but also just having a balance sheet, right? The only time affordable can really work is if you have low-cost debt like this, or if it's strictly LIHTC, which is extremely competitive process. But yeah, I think everybody deserves.

That was a LIHTC 9% deal, so it was a competitive deal. So it's all 401k.

Everybody deserves a nice place to live, you know, regardless of what your situation in life is. If we can help that a little bit and get a kind of mixed-use property, I think that says well for Waukesha. So one other thing I wanted to mention about the project, and again, this has got to go before planning, Do you see any problems with the gravel walkways, and why wouldn't those be concrete so that the gravel don't get spilled all out?

It'll have to be concrete. We don't allow gravel for anything.

Okay, that's what I thought.

Let me apply a commission requirement. There can be no gravel. Okay. Right now it's gravel, but we require all surfaces, whether it's sidewalks, entryways, parking lots, all has to be paved.

This will probably have to have, this will also have to have curb and gutter. We're going to use stormwater drainage. Did plan commission have any comments about the, I guess, one way, the one driveway of access for a unit of this size or a complex of this size?

Yeah, was there any feedback on the driveway access?

From the fire department? I'm just thinking from public safety, usually if they can architect two ways in and out or, you know, turning that into a circular drive kind of thing, they usually encourage that, but we're not here to...

It was mentioned. I believe my architect's comment was either I think it was either, so we would, one of the options was if we was going in one way and coming out the other. I think if we were to do that, we would have to decrease the unit, so it would drop us down to 19. Sure. I think the other option was kind of widen, so what you see there were the and then coming out.

But I think... Maybe just turn it into one-way traffic and shift it. I don't know if that would be better.

Yeah, if you did it one way, you can almost even do... You just angle parking to shrink it up a little bit.

Right, that was what I was thinking. Angle parking might work well. I mean, I'm not here to re-architect your site, but... As someone who lives in a condo development that has a narrow private road, you've got to think about – I'm kind of thinking about things that you're going to deal with, like with snow removal, where to put that snow on a site like that, where to – people backing into each other as they're kind of coming in and out. Yeah.

I think that, I do remember the angle parking. I don't think that they wanted that.

Okay.

Yeah. That would be more typical if it was a one directional. Yeah. Yeah, it was this way.

Yeah, I think, oh, I'll ask Doug for any other feedback from this. But again, once it comes in for like a preliminary plan review, that's really when they're going to nail it on and make sure you're following everything in our zoning ordinance and parking.

As far as the building designs, I kind of like it. I've seen, I've seen the, I've seen buildings like this. To me, it feels a little bit of a throwback design, and I mean that in a nice way. It's almost kind of like a chalet type thing that you see in the mountains in some places. But I remember developments where I grew up that kind of looked like this. You don't see anybody building them quite like this anymore, so I feel like it's interesting.

kind of retro but in a very good way i mean that as a compliment no no seriously thank you because i i i think that the biggest thing that i hear and and uh see is that a lot of affordable housing are kind of very boxy and either like l-shape or square shape i guess but it yeah so i i think the idea was how can we create something that you know we can select materials where it isn't you know too costly but also not compromise the the design right i don't and i was very adamant on this i was like okay i don't want anything too boxy i already know that's going to be one of the biggest issues and even personally um I don't like the boxy looks. I mean, it's pretty much no masonry or just a little bit of masonry at the bottom, and it's just pretty much all the same cheap siding. So I was like, okay, how can we make this just look cool and just kind of refreshed in a way? That's what Felipe came up with.

It's definitely an improvement to that site, and I recognize that it's a little bit of a tricky spot as to where you're kind of wedging it in on a corner or curve. But when you look at that site in Google Maps, I just pulled it up, it looks like a junkyard. I don't know if it still looks like that.

Essentially, that's kind of what's being used.

This would definitely be an official storage yard. Yeah, I think the property owner, I think if you're doing... a job or just finding a place to lease your cars or something like that. But yeah, I was told that it used to be kind of an old auto shop and then the owner just converted it to lease it to people who need to park their cars or boats or whatever the case may be. So yeah, if you go over there now, it's just a whole bunch of white vans and stuff like that. Yes, that is one of the biggest concerns. So we are going through a phase one right now. I was told multiple times that the site across the street is the largest.

It's one of the most contaminated sites in the state right now. That the DNR is actively dealing with. Yeah. because it's got that Navistar property, but also, so there's an underground stream there. I think it's delineated in the front part. It's also releasing stuff into the river. Also Allied Products, which is upstream. So there's kind of a final, who's contaminated what. So yeah, there's a lot of them. A lot of concerns there. This site though, if you look at the studies for the Navistar site, we look close, some of the plumes and stuff don't appear to reach this site, but we do want We want a phase one on this because you don't know what they put in there. And probably a phase two because they dump foundry sand in there to make the parking lot or any of that. So we just don't know. And there's nothing in the DNR on this site right now because it hasn't really been an active development site or anything across the street. So we definitely want to get a clearer picture of what that looks like just in case.

a recommendation for the loan?

Does it have to be cleared beforehand? Yeah, the phase one will kind of reveal what, and I think HUD also requires phase one. Do they require phase two for HUD?

No, we're providing it. Well, it's both.

So, yeah, we want to get a clearer picture on that, because if it's something that's a cleanup aspect, then, of course, then the cost goes up. We don't know that, but, yeah, we wouldn't want to, that's another thing we want to make a recommendation to understand that, if there's any cost associated with that.

Okay, thank you. Okay, I think we can move on to ID number 26.

before we close out, just recommendations for items that you'll need from me so that when we revisit this conversation, to present to make sure that everyone's core confidence is there. So phase one, phase two, I have that noted. Is there any other items that you would need?

We'd like to get an idea of what your primary lender is going to be with there. Because the reason I was hesitant, I really want to get an idea because our funds are supposed to be kind of glass dollar. And if we've got all these funding sources, what's the gap? And that's our intent is this is almost like a... SORT OF LIKE TRYING TO DO THESE LITTLE DEVELOPMENTS WITHOUT DOING TIF. WHAT'S THEIR GAP? HOW CAN WE FIT IN THERE? BUT WITHOUT KNOWING ALL OF THAT, WE CAN'T REALLY MAKE A RECOMMENDATION. BUT HE'S GOT A PRETTY GOOD IDEA OF WHAT THE CONSTRUCTION COSTS ARE, AND A FEW OF THE LENDERS LINED UP, BUT I THINK WE DEFINITELY WANT TO GET A BETTER PICTURE OF ALL THE FUNDING SOURCES.

IS THAT ACCURATE THAT WE'RE IN THIRDLY POSITION?

I DON'T KNOW. So I don't have any.

Yes, so senior MEDC RDA.

Okay. Yeah, I don't know what HUD's requirement is for their position either. I can talk to Kristen Silva in Waukesha County to get a better idea of what they do with the post-partum position. Yeah, it's always our concern too. The further down we go, if something falls through, then we're the last.

Do you have any partners that you're working with on this, or is this just you?

Catalyst.

But I mean, as far as on the development side, are you the sole owner of the property, or are there other equity partners?

No, so the development will be myself. Catalyst is just coming in as the private equity owner to make sure that from the

Does that equity have a lien attached to it? Or do they have an ownership percentage?

They have an ownership percentage, yes.

Okay, so it's not a form of mezzanine debt? No. Okay.

And the way our funding works, too, and RDA can always do this, but we really try to have our money come in later. Once the deal's ready to go, ready to pull building permits, that way we're issuing our funding towards this. That way we have a viable project that we know is shovel-ready and going to get in the ground. So we would commit the funds early, but the funds wouldn't get released until we're in building permit time. That way we know it's going to be used for a project that's happening. which is the same terms we had upon metal. And it's the same way we work with habitat as well. They don't get our money until they actually . Thank you. No, thank you. Thanks. Okay, so the other item, I guess you can announce the item if you want, the next agenda item.

Yes, we'll have a discussion on ID number 2604194, discussion on a proposed update to the 2012 Central City Master Plan.

So this plan was something that came through the Redevelopment Authority, I want to say it started in maybe 2009, It was a several-year process, like a really in-depth planning process, not only taking into account downtown, but this entire kind of whited-out study area. So downtown and the neighborhoods surrounding downtown. It was the first central city plan the city had, a downtown plan that actually took into account all the gateways and neighborhoods around downtown. So... So it was done in 2012. Next year, the plan is 15 years old. Typically, we want to do an update at like 10 years. So what we're proposing to do is go forward. We're looking at some budget numbers to go forward with an update. But in order to get an idea of what this would cost, we would like to kind of work with the RD to identify some of the things that maybe didn't occur from the last plan just because of you know, economic situations or property availability, but also looking at other areas and other things we should be looking at. This focus of the city, when the first plan was approved, obviously we had, we did have fixed borders, Milwaukee water, so the idea was like, oh, the outskirts can still expand. We're so focused on tax density, value per acre. So obviously that's going to inform the new plan. We kind of shrunk the boundaries a little bit in here. But really you're focusing on kind of the core of downtown and then really the big focuses are going to be like White Rock, Main Street, Broadway, another section downtown, and then kind of the neighborhoods to the south there where we've got a few sites identified for potential redevelopment. But also this plan will probably be as robust because really it'll be just an update to the existing plan, which we have done a lot. And I printed this. I worked on this the last couple days. It's an update on... THE IMPLEMENTATION STATUS, SO IN HERE THERE'S A LIST OF ALL THE THINGS THAT ARE ASKED TO IMPLEMENT. AND I THINK IN GENERAL, WE DID A FAIRLY GOOD JOB IMPLEMENTING A LOT OF THIS. AND I WAS HOPING TO GIVE THIS TO YOU BEFORE THE MEETING, BUT YOU CAN TAKE IT WITH YOU AND READ IT. REALLY JUST WENT THROUGH ALL THE DIFFERENT SECTIONS OF WHAT PROGRESS WE'VE MADE SINCE 2012. BUT NOW WE DEFINITELY NEED TO DO AN UPDATE, BECAUSE, AGAIN, THERE'S A LOT OF STUFF THAT A LOT OF THINGS HAVE CHANGED WITH THE CITY, AND ALSO A LOT OF THINGS THAT MAYBE WEREN'T HAPPENING and I'll kind of go through this as we move forward, that weren't really a consideration when the plan was adopted and kind of come to light. So let's do a little brief overview. Focus area one is White Rock. This has kind of been a focus of the city for a while. Habitat has done a lot to really increase up the single family residential and duplexes in there. There's a lot of opportunity on this site. We got, when this was approved, Navistar was still up and I think it was still running at that point. SO THAT WASN'T REALLY TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION AT THE TIME. SO THE NAVISTAR PROPERTY, ONCE THEY WERE TO THE DNR, I THINK IT WILL GIVE US A CLEARER PICTURE OF WHAT WE CAN ACTUALLY DO ON THAT SITE. THE WOLF FORMER HOPS AND OILS SITE, A FUELING STATION THERE. WHITE ROCK SCHOOL. RIGHT NOW THE SCHOOL DISTRICT IS USING THAT AS KIND OF AN ALTERNATIVE HIGH SCHOOL. WE THINK THAT WOULD BE A GREAT HOUSING SITE, GIVING US BACK SOME RATE TO FRAME PARK AND THE RIVER. AND I THINK THE SCHOOL DISTRICT, IT'S ONE OF THOSE PROPERTIES WHERE IF THEY HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAYBE REDEVELOP IT, THEY COULD PROBABLY RELOCATE THAT SOMEWHERE ELSE. THE STUDENTS THERE. Those are the Main Street railroad tracks. Habitat did a little pocket development, which was identified in the initial plan called Prairieville. And behind that is still another parcel. It does have some contamination on it, but our goal is to, there's even a stubbed-in dead-end street in the Prairieville thing eventually to kind of develop that with something similar to continue that pocket neighborhood through to Main Street. And then just streetscaping kind of along that same corridor. So that's the first area of focus that we want to look at. And here's a few pictures. You have the Navistar site here. Significant site. It spans several blocks. But until we get a clearer picture of what this can be, we're hoping it can be something where we can probably have housing on it. But we just don't know yet. They're not at the point where they can say, okay, we This has to be capped in athletic fields or housing.

Who owns that? Does Navistar still own it?

Yeah, whatever the parent company is that owns it. They're still working with the DNR, not as fast as... I mean, they did some demo, and then stopped, had a contractor walk off the job, and they kind of started back up. They still don't have a good picture of what's underneath the foundation and stuff, because they really just have done what they know. As they start digging up the site, they'll probably do more investigation. But we see this as probably obviously one of the biggest opportunities in the central city, just given how big it is. And as I said, we have the Niagara thing to the north in here. There's some other property owners, but Navistar owns property along Niagara as well. But there are a few other ownership interests along Niagara. We also own all these parking lots on the south side of Perkins, which we kind of feel that could be, maybe that's kind of more time-consuming. maybe for habitat.

But not sure.

But we figure that this is a big thing we should really look at in the next plan. Obviously, this is the Hobson Oil, former Hobson Oil Wolf site. In the past, there has been some discussions with the owners on this. We feel like long range is probably not going to be the long range best use for this site. It's kind of surrounded by parks and housing and then whatever happens with White Rock School there. And then obviously you have the White Rock school site. And then this intersection of Moreland and White Rock, you have the bare development that really spruced up the south side there. We've got some, we've got this, this is long vacant here. There's some kind of housing the other direction. There's a gas station. So kind of, this is one of the, they call it a node in our comprehensive plan, which is a citywide plan with these nodes. We're just trying to improve these key intersections in the city, and that's one of the reasons. Second area I really want to focus on is East Broadway. A lot of stuff was done for this in the original Central City Master Plan, a lot of conceptual site plans. None of it really came to light at the time this was going forward, obviously. We know that's not the case. They're planning on the move over to WCTC campus. So that's a giant site right in the heart of downtown and what's gonna happen with that? What are they gonna do with it? And what's that gonna become? Also at that time, The Y was actually working with some supportive housing, and they're gonna do some supportive housing along Broadway, and that kind of, those plans got dropped, so those were incorporated in the initial central city plan. Again, another one of those nodes, number seven, there's the Broadway and Hartwell node. It's just a key intersection. There's some vacancies there. I know there was an article in the Freeman that the old Lincoln Pub is now being redeveloped into a barn grill. But there is that building, that kind of stretch of buildings there probably needs a little bit of work. WCTC, we might want to look at that site and get into contact with them as part of this. Like, what's your long-term? Is this a long-term site that you're going to keep using here? Is this a potential site that they would want to get rid of at some point? Because, again, it's a pretty sizable site in a key area of the city. And kind of the same thing if you're looking at the family video. You've got a couple of tenants there. You've got Dollar General and the Pizza Place. The rest of the building is completely vacant. They've been trying to get tenants for several years with no luck. It's a long term, obviously. Again, the original master plan had some ideas for this site, which is something we will fill in there as well.

Here's the post office, how grown up is SOTY?

Probably years ago, it seems like it, but they don't seem to have any intention of moving.

Well, the Navistar might be part of an answer, too.

Yeah, I just don't know what they're... We think the post office was also identified in the last plan, but it sort of feels like there's been no interest in doing anything else with it. For a city our size, it's definitely seen, at least from an observer's eye, it seems very undersized.

What was the post office?

Anybody know? John F. Kennedy's name is in there. John F. Kennedy's name was in there as, like,

He was the president. So that's 63. I know the city's grown a lot since that time. I don't think they need a bigger facility.

Yeah, I mean, they've got parking across the street for their employees. They've got parking behind. Nobody does mail anymore, so they probably have plenty of room. But then I'll see if the railroad site there, that's all railroad property, but there's kind of a cool depot building there. I mean, it's empty now and not in the greatest of shape, but that was something, again, that potentially could... It could be a redevelopment site. And then the other one is the Hope Center, number six. There's this little triangle. It's kind of fallen into disrepair. We've had several code orders up against it. Ever since the Hope Center, they sold it to someone else. So they moved into the old Bank One building. So that's another site. We've talked to some developers about maybe doing some small-scale housing there. But that would be a site we'd want to kind of look at. How could something lay out on that kind of unique, small site there?

The YMCA, the WCTC, and the post office are all tax-exempt, I would assume. So it's good to get those redeveloped.

Yeah, like I said, I think the hardest one is what is the future of that? Nobody knows what the future of the YMCA site is. What's their plan for it? I don't know.

What is their timing to move, do you know?

That I don't know. I don't know how all their fundraising is going. I know a lot of people watch all of it. I don't know if that stalled the fundraising at all, but I don't think they've, I don't know if they've brought plans for approval to Pewaukee yet for that new building. I think it's still in the fundraising stage, so we'll try to get a clearer picture of that and what that timing is. Are they going to get a CTC edit? I'm not sure. And then we have had discussions with the owners of, Family Video, they have not indicated whatsoever any willingness to sell. We've had developers ask about it, and they haven't wanted to sell it, despite bringing in a developer.

The little park that's behind the post office there, is that kind of off-limits for development? I think there was a spring in there, one of the original springs.

Yeah, that's a springs park. That has got, yeah, it's obviously got the, it's got the spring house still in there. You got the baseball. I mean, there could be some flexibility if somehow there's like an overall redevelopment where, okay, maybe some stuff gets moved around, depending on how this, also how the park was acquired, like what kind of funding was used to acquire it. Sometimes you can do like a little swap. So if it made more sense to maybe extend the park one way and then put development another way, you could explore that. So that's kind of the two big corners we're looking at. But then another, let's look at some pictures. I see the Y. This is that Hope Center that I was talking about. If you go out there now, it looks nothing like this. It's in way more shape than this. This is just a Google Street View. potentially if you acquire the property next to it you might have a little bit more but that little triangular piece isn't going to get you too much extra but we really like to see this this site you know either fix the building or maybe it's torn down some stuff maybe maybe do a couple of houses on here so here's the family video site it just takes up a lot of land for not a lot of use two stores there that probably need about 10 to 15 parking spaces, and you've got about 70 parking spaces. This kind of shows you get the Let's Roll Tobacco, and that's the deep loss trying to capture there, and then there's CTC. So there's a lot of opportunity on here, a lot of challenges, but this is probably a key area to focus on.

You don't have the food truck in the picture.

No, maybe they're out somewhere else during the day.

Is that depot at all a historical building or landmark?

It's not a landmark, but it's been identified in some of these resources because of its history of being a depot. There's some cool pictures of it, but I'll double check. I don't believe it's landmark, though. Unlike the other one on William Street, it's not a landmark. Okay. This is another area. This is kind of that triangle across from Rochester Deli. We see potential here. We've had some discussions with property owners. So we think this could kind of be either redevelopment of one or two parcels or a bigger redevelopment. We don't want to push all the way to East Avenue because those are some historic buildings there. So we try to capture it in this area. But this area kind of needs a little kind of a study of what could go there.

Do those properties, do they stay mostly occupied there?

So, yes, Smart Realty is in this one, and his offices are in there. The other ones, they've had a difficulty keeping commercial tenants on that stretch. It's just kind of quiet, but now they've got a few tenants there. There's now the Waxed Vinyl Lounge, which is like a little music-themed sort of bar. I think they have some snacks or food there. And then they have the Waxed Candle, which is another business where you can do your own candles. So we're hoping maybe somewhere like that where it's kind of a destination out there. You've got a place where people can go and have some food or whatever. And maybe that'll start drawing more people down here. We've had discussions. There was a coffee shop there that went out of business. They closed up shortly. Had discussions with another person who was thinking about doing kind of a little bit more focused coffee shop that we don't have downtown. Get some different ideas for it. There's also the former, the other friend, RETAILER DOWN THAT STREET HAS BEEN VACANT FOR A WHILE. SO THERE HAS BEEN SOME STRUGGLES TO SUSTAIN RETAIL DOWN HERE. WE'VE HAD A LOT OF DIFFERENT BUSINESSES COME HERE. And it's kind of, you also have, because you have the Rochester Daily, which has always been super busy, very successful. I don't know how I would get that to kind of apply to the rest of the block. Even next to Rochester, there's two tenant spaces, Lena's Tailoring and North American Peer Spaces that don't have tenants in it either. So trying to figure out maybe a tenant mix here is probably another good thing to look at. Try to get, but if maybe, and we've talked to the owner here on the corner, and he's had different ideas on how to redevelop that site over several years. It just hasn't happened yet. As far as the core of downtown, this is probably the block that probably needs the most help. Because if you look at stuff as you come to the north and west, a lot of that's in pretty good shape. We've seen a lot of redevelopment there. We've seen very low vacancy rates in that part. It's just this block that needs help.

Do you have an idea of how many different owners there are at the parcels right there?

Two.

Just two.

Yep. Like Standarsky, Eric Standarsky owns almost all of it, and then Smart's on the corner. So it's good you only have two property owners, makes it a little bit easier to try to work with them and figure something out. So I guess we brought it to you just to kind of, that was our initial thought. There's some other things we haven't looked in here, so maybe some market studies on potential uses, economic sustainability, looking at exporter high construction costs so trying to re-examine what's going to work in these sites from a marketing and from a market standpoint too as well instead of us just saying okay this should be this but we just want to figure out okay will this work here if we want to do this what types of gaps would probably be in funding if the city's going to do that but then we wanted to bring it to you just find out there's other areas within the sort of central city map that maybe jump out that we maybe missed or that you really think we should focus on. The other one I didn't have, I meant to put in here and didn't have was the St. Paul corridor. So St. Paul Avenue from about Prairie to the parade memorial. Especially, I mean, there's been some reinvestment. You have the new restaurant in St. Paul down towards Prairie, the New Mexican restaurant there. He's doing some work on the former Jim's Bug Center. But then there's also a lot of different opportunity there to either fix up or redevelop along that stretch. We had UW-Milwaukee students, I don't know if you recall this, a few years ago, UW-Milwaukee students, their grad school capstone project was in St. Paul Corridor. They had some really cool concepts. We'd probably be looking at that. What they've proposed, is this viable, and trying to tie that in as well. The thing that's really changed since that has happened is INEO. Obviously, there's thoughts that it's gonna be vacant. They're gonna leave the city. And now they're completely, you know, reverse course. They're actually adding on to the building. They're going to add up to 500 employees on that site. If you go by now, you can see how many people they've added there. They're doing testing. So what they're doing is they're doing generators for these data centers. So they're building generators there. So it's really been a great story for us. Like, okay, here's a site we thought we were going to be looking for. How are we going to redevelop such a large site with such a huge building? And now there's a bunch of jobs there. So we think the time is now to look at St. Paul and Prairie and, okay, how can So I don't know if you had any thoughts on what we were kind of going forward with, but again, we're open to other ideas. Other corridors we sort of have in there, you've got kind of that Delafield entrance into downtown. Obviously continue work throughout the core of downtown. We want to leave all that in because there's still some, you know, there's some little sites, control sites and sites there that need a little bit of work, but we have seen a lot of strides since this was adopted. There's also on St. Paul, across from the Mandela corridor, that were built on St. Paul. There's a few long-term vacancies there and a couple of sites there. One of them actually has some plans. They're doing some remodeling of one of the sites there, but there's a few other sites that we think could also serve as possible housing sites.

So, Jeff, it appears to me that there's a significant amount up around Madison Avenue and then down here in the southern piece that has been removed from the boundaries. Yet, I didn't see anything where there's been anything, any work done necessarily in those neighborhoods.

So, really, I think in these, we just kind of, there wasn't a whole lot in those neighborhoods. I think they had taken these neighborhoods in, like kind of if you go to the east, it's not a lot of opportunity. You got the Yeah, we see the habitat redevelopment there. That was right outside the boundaries of this, but there really isn't, we just didn't see a lot of sites that needed redeveloping or that would, because it's pretty much built up. It's a lot of really good housing stock over there. Going to the south, we really tried to capture, we still kept in a lot of Carroll's campus there, and Carroll's doing the work there, but there's also some opportunities along Maple. Carol's doing some work on Maple, but there's still some potential redevelopment sites around there. So we want to keep that in. We did pull in Saratoga down there. The STEM school closed for, it's no longer a STEM middle school.

They are doing some, let's see, it's like drug and alcohol rehab high school thing there, I believe is what they're doing right now with it. But we see that as a That's College Avenue. That's the southern part of it. Yeah, College Avenue. It's got a red line.

Yeah, and then it drops down Walton and wraps around and goes around there. So we think there's potential for redevelopment there. You have a historic building on the corner of Walton that could be like a historic tax credit or tied into further development. So we wanted to kind of explore that side a little bit more. Grand Avenue, since the Central City Master Fund was adopted, there's been a lot of work on Grand Avenue, primarily with like Carroll and Burke Management and the dormitory buildings there.

So the KDV label site that was just vacated, that's outside the boundary on the very bottom of the right picture?

Yeah, that's probably a good idea to pull that in. That's south of Sunset. So no, the KDV, the one he's talking about, I'm thinking of a different site. He's going to want to, KDV's like right here. That's probably, we should add that, I agree. Because that site, I don't, there's that and there's also a water utility building that Yeah, I'm going to add that thought.

One of the things that I'd like to propose to the RDA department is work with the school system to try to get some of these properties that they, and not get them turned over and sold to Carroll College, although I like Carroll College, and not get them sold to the Montessori School so that you're taking a non- tax providing and putting it right back into a non-tax generating. Our goal should be let's make some tax generation by capturing some of the non-taxable property so that we can get it turned over. Meaning in the first downtown with the post office and with And, you know, I don't want to miss the opportunity like Hawthorne. Now it's going to be tech exempt for another 50 years in a Montessori school. You know, we had an opportunity to maybe grab that site, you know, and maybe we didn't.

We've talked to the school district. We sat down with them and went over all these different sites. So we have made an indication. Anything that's up that we think could be...

Even if we have to pay a little premium to keep it out of some of these non-techs. And again... They serve a purpose to the community tax-exempt organization, so I'm not pounding negatively on them, but I think our needs are going to be to create some tax revenue.

Yeah, they have another site here, like a little small site we think could be like a small-scale residential.

Yeah.

You know, actually, Jerry Faith had looked at that site, too, is doing a smaller building over down here. Other habitats looked at. So this is across from...

The town of Waukesha needs some tax-exempt properties. You know what I'm saying?

Yeah, this one here, too. This entire block is tax-exempt. We feel like if you can get some housing, some neighborhood-scale housing along College, you're putting it back on the tax rolls. You still have the park here.

A lot of work for me, Joe.

That's my district you're talking about. We should have the KTV label as well. But that's also why I identified White Rock School. A site like that is just like such a good site for housing, given how close it is to everything, like to the river and the views. Like you could probably have, I don't know, 70% of the units in there. Depending on how you lay it out, you could probably have all the units facing the river if you laid it out right.

Or like the UW property. You know, how they're going to announce the 10th, who they pick. And I just heard rumblings and that'll be a $150 million project. Yeah.

so it's going from tax exempt to taxable and i think the counter 50 million the counties go on northview as well because they're straight northview is the same thing they want that to go to taxable entities and that's kind of what i think we should identify on this site too what are these sites that are available and how can we get them into taxable and that that i think is more than more um

potential should that that's what our focus should be is getting the non-taxable to the taxable otherwise we're just spinning our wheels we can build a brand new hope center and it doesn't do us it does the people who need the hope center right does them good but it doesn't do the city of waukesha good yeah that hope center site too that's one look at that yeah we'd rather not go to a non-profit rather that right to redevelop this housing or something so that's just yeah i think what we do is we kind of go look through this area and identify all the

tax-exempt properties that we think potentially could be put for sale. Because there's probably quite a few in this area. Thank you.

Jeff, can you go back to the first node, if you will, or the first section? White Rock? Wasn't... Haven't we had a lot of them conflating neighborhoods a little bit, but wouldn't potentially La Casa have some influence in this neighborhood too? I know they're a little bit to the south, but haven't they been... interested in some of that area along the railroad area that's kind of, I guess, an extension of this.

Yeah, definitely worth it, because if you're looking at, even like on Broadway, let's go to the Broadway one. You didn't mention them anywhere along that, but I know they've been kind of a major developer and player in some of that area between those two. They've been slowly just acquiring property. Yeah, I think that definitely is something we should look at their entire campus as part of that. i like what costs and i support them i just don't want them growing because the more they grow the more tax exempt yeah it becomes and we're fighting a battle yeah i feel like they're not in buying any more property more but they have bought a lot but they also they've already kind of completed all that they um so if you're looking at this broadway's property here they own all of this stuff here all the way up to here after arcadian so they have this kind of

It would be good to know if they have plans for that.

Yes. I know they do. Yeah, we talked to them about the one in Southland, Arcadia, and not so much down here on Broadway, though.

Yeah.

So as we get into the – if this gets approved and we are able to do this plan, we'd have stakeholder meetings, and there would be a key stakeholder on this. You know, meeting with them, meeting with the Y, meeting with CGC. Just trying to meet with these people. Okay, what are your intentions of the property? Again, La Casa, if you've got a conceptual campus plan. This is something we would outsource to a consultant. Yeah, we would do that. We're looking at, obviously, with budgets, we may be funded out of TID. Out of an existing district that has money in it. That's going to be my next question.

Yes. How much and from where?

So we're trying to get an idea from consultants right now. Our new associate planner is reaching out, getting some numbers from consultants. What do you estimate with our scope is? But I wanted to kind of get back to the RDA and get some ideas on what we're looking for.

We'll do that, and we'll kind of look at the two districts.

Yeah, putting this in the general budget idea. Very hard sell. But I don't know what the cost is. And it depends. The good thing is we have a pretty good framework with the existing plans, so it's not like we're recreating the wheel. We've implemented a great deal of that. I mean, if you look at that sheet there, there's a ton of things that were implemented as part of it. So we'll hopefully have a better idea on that before budget season. Before this budget season. So, soon.

ON OUR COMMITTEE, I MOVE TO ADJOURN. CONGRATULATIONS.