Landmarks Commission - Regular Meeting

Good evening, everyone. This is the city of Waukesha, and today is March '25 and this is the Landmarks Commission meeting. I'm calling to order and I will start with roll call starting to my left.

Aaron Spencer. Marty Larson.

Carmen Delapaz. Beth Moulton.

Matt Rutzek. Thank

you. We have a quorum and so we will start with any public comment.

Hello. Hello. Lisa Sellb, 43434 Madison Street. I had received a letter that I just wanted to share with you. It says, dear missus L, by a vote of eight to four, the state historic preservation review board did not move to approve the Blair House additional documentation and boundary boundary decrease at the meeting held on 02/21/2025.

So this, it was 12, people that are experts in their field from around the state, and as it said, they voted eight to four and they agreed with you to not decrease the historic boundary of the Blair House. So this had been started in July 2024, and you all know the whole process that we went through. And so I just wanted to share that official letter that I had gotten with you. So thank you.

Thank you. Anyone else today for public comment? Great. Moving on to approval of minutes and I'm looking for a motion please.

Motion to approve the minutes. I'll second.

Alright, start a vote.

We voice vote. Do you want me to read names? Yeah, because it's not.

Sure. Marty Larson.

Abstain. Aye. Great. Meeting minutes have been approved. And moving on to the Landmarks Commission paint and repair grant funds, Charlie will get us up to speed.

Alright. Thank you. So as you know, paint and repair grants are typically allocated on an increasing scale of roughly 15% of the cost of a project up to a maximum of $3,000 But the Landmark Commission may use their discretion to change award amounts based on project scope, overall impact, fund availability or any other circumstances. The 2025 paint and repair grant allocation was $25,000 and we do have $2,850 from And

from from

of So the

then

next plan if you

Question is since we have the 2850, the leftover, can we grant that money?

That's if if you would like, I can contact the two the two grantees from last year to find out if what their status is. They had both said at the end of the year that they expected to have their projects done early this year, but I have not heard from either of them. So I can certainly do that this month. And then I guess if they say they're not going ahead, we could put a paint repair grant on the agenda. We have, I think two that have come in so far that we're basically just waiting until we get the signed contract. And then we'll just do them on a first come first serve basis.

So that'd be great if you could call those people, that'd be awesome.

Yeah.

Or whatever, email them, However you wanna handle it. Thank you. Great. So we're moving on to new business. Starting with 25Dash0025O Landmarks Commission certificate of appropriateness for 311 McCall Street. Review request to replace the roof, and this is the McCall Street Historic District.

Alright. 311 McCall Street is on the South side of McCall Street, right in between Charles Street and James Street, sort of in the heart of the McCall Street district. This is one of two exceptionally narrow lots. This it is the Charles H. Howard House, which was built in 1890 and has front gabled architecture.

And there you can see the existing roof. It's a gray three tab shingled roof, and it needs to be replaced. And the applicant would like to replace it with Atlas Pinnacle impact shingles with a pewter color. That is not a brand that the Landmarks Commission has approved before. It hasn't come for comes And

line

higher they're architectural shingles, with but the they do have some that have more definition. So this is they did have a couple of renderings of these were the traditional style houses. So just to show what the shingles would look like in that color on these style houses. This is just from their website basically. So those are two renderings to show basically what the shingles would look like.

So just to summarize, they'll be replacing the roof, new shingles will be Atlas Pinnacle Impact, pewter color and we'll be adding black flashing and other waterproofing and ventilation that is typical of roof replacements. And this is one that they had requested a paint repair grant. And once we get the funds, they'll be on the list.

Great. Is there somebody here from this property? Hi, if you could please.

I did bring in some samples that they

Please step forward to the microphone and state your name and list your address, please. This is just for the record.

Thank you. I'm Wendy Mueller at 311 McCall Street. I did bring in some samples if you'd I like to see

can show them to her.

Thank you. Is there anything else that you'd like to add to what Charlie shared

with us?

Well, I couldn't understand a word he said. I'm sorry. I'm a little hard of hearing and and there's the the acoustics don't carry back their

very well.

He did

a great job.

One here.

So The I I kind of read that it looks like you have said that it it probably is appropriate. The pinnacle is the one that the Atlas Pinnacle is the one that I I would prefer. It's a little better shingle for the price. This is one that they're picking. This

is the one

But I thought, you you need show and tell, right?

Yeah. And these are your other options?

Yeah. Those are other options that the state guy said would be appropriate.

That the historic preservation tax credits?

Yeah. For the tax credits.

Okay. So he he gave a specific

He he he yeah. He sent me some names as well.

Okay.

So Is the Pinnacle Impact part of

the list that he gave you? It's it's kind of one that's listed as the Atlas name, but not the Pinnacle in particular. He, had mentioned that they had not approved the Atlas before, but I have no background information as far as if it was the pinnacle that he looked at. If the and they they do change over from year to year somewhat as far as style. But since I I mean, if you saw the, the Landmarks ones, which he said were would were appropriate, they're very, very similar. So

great. We don't need to see the budget now because it's not going up for a repair grant, right? Right. Great. Does anybody have any questions? Yes.

I move to approve the shingle request by for the property

at 311 McCall Street as presented.

I'll second that.

Great. Great. Thank you.

Appreciate you bringing the samples. That helps us a lot, especially if it's not one that we've seen before. And we're going to vote, and you'll know in a second. Okay. Thank you. Marty Larson.

Aye. Carmen de la Paz.

Aye. Matt Redsek.

Aye. Aaron Spencer. Aye. And Elizabeth Molson.

Aye. Perfect. You're approved. Enjoy your new roof. Thank you for so much for your time to come and speak with us.

Thank you.

Thank you. Have a good night. Perfect. And next on the agenda is item 25 dash zero zero three two six. And we have a presentation from former Landmarks Commission member David Mulfin on several historic properties which may be worthy of special recognition. Hello. You did? When? Oh, really? How did I do in the review? I don't remember.

It was favorable one

thing. Fabulously. Thank you. I love your glasses. Thanks for joining us today.

Thank you, ma'am. I

am not. Thank you.

And mister Moulton, if you would please just state your name at the desk before you start speaking and your address for the record. Thank you.

David Moulton. 136 Cook Street. I beg your patience this afternoon. I talked to Charlie and I did suggest what the agenda suggests, but I'm also asking for about ten minutes for the good of the cause if you would. If I take up too much time, let me know by raising your hand and I'll move move out because you I do have the remarks to you in printed form.

I come today to preach to you as a former chair of and member of the Landmarks Commission. You're admirable citizens. You often, however, serve quite beleaguered. I thank you for your service and I returned at the age 83. In a spirit similar to the nineteen fifties, General McArthur, farewell to the Congress of the United States.

When he offered counsel to as a old soldier, now fading and soon to be forgotten with the rest. These are remarks based upon my years of knowledge of a historic preservationist. Charlie is are you a city planner, Charlie? City planner, Charlie, has allowed me to use this time during your agenda because it allows you to put my remarks in your minutes. And it also might help you to remember for future agenda items which I will be suggesting.

My purpose tonight is to try to convince you to extend your council charter expecting a result of a more phase of favorable citizen awareness and support of your important task. I can think of no other Waukesha Commission as disrespected as yours. Park Rex offers welcome programming and activities. City planning, codes for safety. Others, garbage pickup or walk clean water.

But landmarks deals in the quixotic areas of aesthetics. The importance of heritage. The past's worth all in a culture hell bent on progress. A culture with a view of the of the tax burden burdened with an idea idolatry for private ownership. As Ben Franklin put it, touch not my wallet or my eyes.

As a disgruntled city homeowner put it, landmarks is the Waukesha housing gestapo.

Sir, are you comfortable standing this long?

Pardon?

Are you comfortable standing this long?

Yes.

Okay. Thank you.

Thank you, Elizabeth. But what might be further done to position Landmarks more favorably with the city council and its citizenry? From White Rock to Mudbass, you have reaped the disdain to which this drama critic can relate. Yes. You give out money, grants for restoration and repair.

You allow modest incentives for tax relief or reduction. You gratis supply professional counsel to property owners on materials and techniques. And you participate in a May weekend of awards and recognition of historic preservation. But what could extend your charter from pit bull watchdog to the heroism of a Saint Bernard Council. And thereby, garner support.

First, once annually and encouraged by agenda, Waukesha City Council funding and individual citizen and business philanthropy in placement of his more historic markers within the city. Discounting the Carol, Cutler Home, the Library, and the William Street Depot marker. Name three others.

The Blair House is represented behind you.

Pardon?

Sorry. The Blair House is represented behind you.

I have several. The Lund boarding house at college in Hartwell, where Alfred Lund walked daily from nineteen six to nineteen eleven to study at Carroll College. The Carroll president Walter L. Rankin, his daughter May Nickel Rankin's family home at the intersection of McCall Street and Northeast Avenue. The Richard and Jane yes. Can they see this?

Yep.

The Richard and James or Jane Smart Home on College Avenue. The Waukesha, you're going back? This is the first one. This is the Lund boarding house. The Waukesha limestone gothic mansion on Northeast Broadway.

I didn't Yeah. That one happened. That didn't come to me until later. Can you think of three others in your own estimation that might be worthy of such designation? Like the guitars and bicentennial murals downtown, markers would teddy bear warmth.

What about a signed designation? You're entering the historic McCall Street District. Two, heresy. Heresy. Interpret national historic standards with leniency in consideration of homeowner budgets.

To be honest, these standards were developed by an economically privileged association with government lobbying power. The Waukesha Wood widow who for thirty five years has maintained her treasure to home should be approved for less strict and costly appropriations if a reasonable compatible or replaceable nature exists. She has maintained a treasure. Three, encourage WCTC Park Rec workshops on historic architecture and restoration techniques. Brainstone brainstorm in your sessions for topics.

Realize a participation tuition charge will allow the cost cost of these workshops, not tax tax payer money. Examples, fences for historic homes, nineteenth century paint color and placement, landscaping the historic home yard. Fourth, the press is landmarks friendly if utilized as such. Coverage of battles between the city council or the county board against preservationists, the commission depicted as rabid cell papers. But also, a monthly column or regular series of feature articles on historic homes and homeowners.

The report of repair and restoration grants in the paper, the awards for historic preservation given in the recorded in the paper, your minutes in the paper. These encourage curious, the curious who buy newspapers. The Hawes Pets photos that works for Hawes. The obituaries works for all of us. School board minutes.

Farmer commissioner John Shekanek with whom I served and his Waukesha Springs era books and the Freeman publication. He ought to have a statue. He ought to have a statue downtown for what he has achieved in the local press and citizen awareness. Fifth, enlist financial banks and credit unions to offer historic preservation, discount loans on restoration projects and repairs approved by your agenda. At interest rates lower than home equity.

It serves them and it will also encourage those homeowners not to hide in the bushes, but to come before you for certificates of appropriateness. Sixth, ask each year the Waukesha County Museum director and eighteen thirty four club officer an agenda preference for recommendations. Seventh, this is dear to me as a son of a tenant farmer. There's my home. Overwhelmingly, Vanderbilt, landmark wealthy, upper class, architecturally designed edifices prevail in the historic preservation.

Yet Waukesha does possess on my beloved Cook Street and South Of College on West Avenue, modest endearing houses. Protect them. They're grandmas. There's grandpas who work for them. As a drama critic for lamentable performances, I applied a standard given to me by my tenant farmer father.

If you have to bring pain to heel a horse, scratch it behind the ears before you leave it. It will remember the kindness which helped the hurt. Put that in practice. Any questions? It's been a dear cause to me.

I believe these suggestions come with a solid not understanding of the conservatism of this community, but also with a some ideas that might might help you get up around what has become most blatant in today's world. Thank you for your attention.

Thank you for caring. Thank you for your words. They will ring for a very long time for me. Really. Thank you.

Oh, you, Carmen.

I mean it. Thank you.

I'm going to give them a a copy for the minutes.

Thank you very much for taking the time to share that with us today. Much appreciated.

Great. We're moving on to 250-0327, discussion discussion and possible action on a letter from the Landmarks Commission to Historic Property Owners. And the letter was on all of our iPads here when we arrived. Charlie,

past several years. I was just sending out a reminder to property owners in all of the historic districts that they are in fact historically designated and that they have to come to the Landmark Commission for the appropriate alterations and then also reminding them that we have paint repair grants available or other grants and loans for commercial properties and then that they're state and federal historic preservation tax credits as well. This basically I just updated the one that we sent two years ago with the changes to the grant allocation and one or two other things and then noted that the grants will be allocated we approve the funding from the federal government. Otherwise, it's pretty much exactly the same as the one that we sent out two years ago. So just asking for any suggestions and I don't know if you necessarily need to make a motion or not, but either way.

Question or suggestion. I'm just wondering if we want to eliminate that last sentence on the first paragraph. Might make it feel more friendly. That means you must obtain approval of the certificate appropriateness from the landmarks. And if we want it in there, I I would say put it down below after we talk about why we do this and that there's money available versus right off the bat. We're giving the hammer before we talk about the nicey stuff.

That's Our hammer doesn't do anything.

No,

I mean, sure. I hear what you're saying.

I'd like it to be a little more clear that the twenty twenty five grants haven't been awarded. Because confirms doesn't quite say to me that I mean, it's correct, right, that the federal government hasn't awarded CDBG funds this year. Right?

It was in the budget, I believe. Like, it was it's been approved or there's some I'm not exactly sure how the CDBG funding works, but it is there has been some approval. They just have not decided that they're gonna give the money yet. So, yeah, we do not have the the money yet.

Right. Then, you know, that those grants will be awarded, you know, if the government confirms I'm not sure of the exact wording. I just wanna be crystal clear to these people that the the funds have not been awarded to us, therefore, can't award it to them.

Yeah. I can definitely reword that too.

Thank you.

I can I can move the move or reword that one at the at the beginning to trend?

Well, that's just me, Charlie. I don't know what the rest of these people think.

No. I mean, I think the more crystal clear we can become for that point, absolutely. And the moving the hammer a little further down is a good idea into the message. You know, was talking about this letter today to coworker at work, I was like, yeah, we put out this letter every other year, and I think that letter's due now, and so here it is, which is great. I just I I think that there's there's gotta be a topic of conversation at some point where things get done that aren't approved.

Right? And we have no ramifications. We have no, you know, if a if a city permit gets pulled and the foundation isn't put right, that department can go back and tell them take it down and you gotta do it again. Like, what do we have to hold people accountable to this?

Well, they have an appeals process and we can make them do it over. Alright. We have done that. They they had come in and appear before this and we've made them tear them

out and put in No. I know. But not through not in the years I've been in this commission. We have not.

You're right. It doesn't happen often. But

We we did have one that last year where

We did have with that window. Yeah. And they

Yeah.

They didn't do it by the deadline, but they eventually did it.

Alright.

And that actually is something that we've had some conversation with the city attorney's office about maybe strengthening the ordinance a little bit to make it more clear exactly what the Landmark Commission can say in those in those circumstances.

Yeah. That's all. I just wanna bring that to the forefront. I just think it needs to be clearer and a little bit more definitive with strength as opposed to la la la, whatever. You know, it just that's what it feels like to me, you know? And then, you know, we have mister Molten here giving us comments where it's kinda like obvious that that's kind of the case. You know what I mean? And it's it's sad. So I'm just putting it out there for record that I would really appreciate some feedback from that.

Could there be another discussion with the city attorney as far as just getting a little bit of feedback from him, what he could do to strengthen that like you had mentioned?

Yeah. That is something that we can we can bring up with them. Sometimes, ordinance updates can take a little while to, you know, get through the process. But, yeah, we will try and

Yeah. If we can just start out and just kinda get a, you know, feel for what what we can do and what's not possible. So

Yes. I think we should come to some kind of agreement before we start writing ordinances.

Well, nobody's writing the ordinances. I think we're just looking for a little bit more definition within the ordinances that we do have.

Several years back, we did have, someone that painted their historic stone, and, they did it and wanted to ask forgiveness afterwards, and and we said no as the Landmarks Commission. And it took a little bit, and there are fines that can be attached to things like that. And they did have to hire a company that came and removed the paint very carefully from the historic stone. So we do the Landmarks Commission does have teeth to, take care of violations like that.

There was another one. Was it James Street or Charles? And the guy put up windows that were inappropriate for the structure, and we had a whole appeals process.

Do you

remember that one? That one, don't remember.

That was on Charles Street. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, yes. I do remember that one. Yep.

Because we had a whole hearing in the whole deal. It Yes.

He moved it around, and he put a a swing where the windows were supposed to be, and he changed the front door and all of that.

So Right.

And Yep. That's right.

And he disagreed and used the full process. And we went through the whole the whole thing, and he eventually he eventually came around. But it took quite a bit of effort on the city's part.

Okay.

But can be done.

Thank you. That's all I care about. Great. So we're good to go with that, Charlie. Okay? Thank you. An alderman's report.

I can't think of anything right now, but if anybody has any questions, I'll look into whatever. Great.

Nope. Moving on to Spring's report. Julie's not here.

Yeah. Julie's not here, but she had asked for an update on the Spring's cleanup. She had suggested talking to the high schools about students that might need service hours. And she had actually contacted North and West and gotten two names of the advisers that could organize that. She gave me those names and then so I called them and then also one at south. And all of them were interested. North High School couple And years. We'll we'll with

the

do to And get the right we're able or And something like that. So I need think to have a conversation with Melissa at Parks and probably a couple other people to figure out what we can do on that end. And then the other two had suggested maybe just a regular Saturday cleanup that if we'd like give them a date that they will pass that on to the students and most likely there'll be some interest. And so we basically just have to pick a date and most likely in May for a spring's cleanup for that.

Will you repeat the question for the recording?

Come We to the microphone and ask the question so that we've got it for the record and it's heard. Sorry.

That's okay. Preservation weekend is usually the third weekend in May, and you had said the twenty third. So that could

That's be their day that they're doing their service learning. We have not picked the date for the cleanup. And as far as I know, Preservation Alliance is not organizing any activities this year. So most likely beyond the Landmarks Awards, if there is anything, it would just be a Springs cleanup.

Got it. Thank you. Great.

Anything else in the Springs?

That's all that I have for now.

Okay. And moving on to Communications and Publications.

I had a couple of things. So just first, the the historic preservation review board did hear the city's application for additional information and boundary own we're do And we're going to to process and also just its that options as the property owner at 130. And that's really all I have at this point. And then also the multi factor authentication of emails, I don't if are any of you guys have any of you not set that up yet? Okay.

I guess maybe we should talk about it afterwards. IT department is they have a process to help out figuring out how to get that set up, So

I just want to make it for the record that I have vacated 403 Arcadian Avenue, which is a historic landmark for the city of Waukesha. And I am concerned that the organization that owns it wants to knock it down. So I've asked Charlie to call them and to notify them of due process for that building. But I think as a city, we just need to be on high alert.

And I did leave a message with the operations manager, I believe, just kind of reminding them that they need Landmark's approval for any exterior alterations and also building department approval for any really any significant alterations. And then I sent an email to Sherry Campbell, who is the CEO of La Casa, just with the same reminder and she did respond saying that they are aware of that.

Great. Thank you. I appreciate that.

And then the last thing I have is the Landmarks Awards. Those were on the agenda And then they're also on the website. The nomination forms, those are they're due one week before the April meeting. The April meeting is well, I have I have one copy of each of to we'll be And

then

ceremony will be at the first council meeting in May. So if any of you have any ideas for nominations, now is the time to be working on those.

Perfect. Okay. Anybody else have anything else for this evening? Charlie, we're good?

Yep.

We're good? Everybody good up here?

Good.

Great. This meeting is adjourned. Thank you, everybody.

Thank you. We'd get lost.

Yeah. Basically.

Well, I didn't say it. You did.