Plan Commission - Regular Meeting

Good evening, everyone, and welcome to the regularly scheduled plan commission meeting for July 22nd. My name is Joan Francoeur. I'm a member of the commission. The mayor, who is the chair of the commission, is not able to be with us tonight. She's representing the city in Madison at a meeting, and so she's asked me to chair, and that's what I'm doing. So the first thing we'd like you to do is to join us in the Pledge of Allegiance. of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you, and we'll have roll call. And Heather, would you start? Heather Granger, here.

Jack Wells, here.

Joan Francoeur, here. Beth Moulton, here. Thank you, we have a quorum and can proceed with business tonight. the first thing on our agenda is public comment and i would just let you know that this is on the agenda in case someone can't stay for the meeting and wanted to address an item or that you have something you wanted to speak to the plan commission about which is not listed on our agenda tonight so i will pause and see if there are members of the audience who would like to speak with us i would also remind you that as we go through the specific items there is an opportunity at each of them for you to speak if you have information or you want to make a comment to the plan commission. So let me pause now and see if there's anyone who's in the audience that would like to address our commission tonight. Not seeing a large group running up to the microphone. I guess I would ask, Doug, are there any comments of public comments that came into the commission?

We did receive a couple comments from one of the aldermen, and they will be presented during the presentation of those items.

Okay, very good. Then the next thing on our agenda is the approval of minutes, and these minutes were from June 22nd. I'll make a motion to approve. Thank you. Commissioner Wells moves. Commissioner Keller seconds. Are there any additions, deletions for the minutes, or any comments? Seeing none, I believe we're ready to vote. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Opposed? Those passed unanimously. And thank you for that vote.

Excuse me, before we get too far, I would like to introduce the new staff members, if you don't mind. So on my left is our new associate planner, Megan Steiner-Puttier. Close. She joined us the couple weeks ago now and this will be your first meeting. Obviously before you. We're very excited to have her on board and then I know I think Alderman Wells was not at our last meeting and Charlie's left is Thane Bremer and he's our intern. He's currently grad student at UW Milwaukee. And we're happy to have him on board. He's been helping us out a lot this summer and maybe staying around this fall as well. So you'll be seeing both of their faces quite often now moving forward, hopefully.

Well, it's a pleasure and re-welcome you, Thayne, and welcome you, Megan. I think it's exciting to see both of you not only present, but you're on the agenda tonight. So we look forward to your comments and presentation. The next thing on our agenda is the consent agenda and what that really means is that the staff has gone through some of the applications and found that there are compliance with our code and with what we usually look at and so therefore they brought us to us at the plan commission for consent to be approved. So I'm just gonna pause for a second and ask if any of the commissioners would like any of these items removed from consent. Seeing none, what that means is that the staff recommendation has been approved by the commission and these items are considered approved. The next part of our agenda then is our business items, and the first one is a final site plan and architectural review for the property at 222 West St. Paul Avenue, St. Paul Place, and it's a request to approve plans for exterior building and site improvements, including new siding, windows, and doors, along with the new pavement and landscaping improvements to the site located in a B3 general business district And Charlie, I believe that this is your item. Yep. Thank you.

All right. So this is 222 West St. Paul Avenue. It's located near the near St. Paul Avenue's intersection with North Street and Wisconsin Avenue. And it's a property that extends all the way between the two the two streets between St. Paul and North. As you can see, there is an existing office space which faces towards North Street, which is occupied by Hanna Home Healthcare. And that takes up basically the entire space with the black roof and this overhead here. And then it also has an associated parking lot and then the rest of the building facing towards st Paul Avenue has been vacant for a very long time and is is blighted and kind of deteriorated and the applicants would like to refurbish the building and Lease it out to several commercial tenants So on the interior, they are removing several walls and adding some other ones to create four new commercial spaces. The red in this is a storage space that's used by Hanna Home Healthcare. The yellow will be most likely an auto detailing business, which had a conditional use permit approval by the Planning Commission earlier this year. The larger green space was originally intended as a storage or construction business occupant, but the applicants believe now it will most likely be occupied by a gym. And then the purple and the blue spaces will be office and retail facing out towards St. Paul Avenue. So St. Paul Avenue is on the right here on this overhead. And then on the second floor, there is a smaller office space above the one on the first floor that looks like it could be either combined with that first floor office or a separate tenant. And then the green space appears to be connected to the gym space. So again, here's the building as it appears right now. The windows on the front have all been removed, and there's a brick siding and sort of a tan-colored metal siding above. so the applicants would like to add Nietzsche hop panels to cover the brick area as well as new windows which will match the style of those panels and then a new a new ramp into the into the commercial space with a railing and they will also repaint and refurbish the the metal panels on the second level of to improve their appearance as well. So this is the rendering that they provided for the front of the space. As you can see, there will also be some new foundation landscaping both around the base of the of the the the walkway and also at the top of it the currently the there's a shared driveway into the strip mall retail area and the adjacent property as well as this this property which has a sort of a concrete curb that blocks prevents traffic from driving directly into this parking area and the parking area on this property was paved at some point in the past but has deteriorated into gravel. The applicants do plan to repave that and remove the curb so that there will be access into this parking area and they also plan to refurbish refurbish the siding of this section of the building as well. So you can see there'll be a new overhead door into the auto detailing space, as well as two smaller doors into the gym space, which will be replaced. The doors themselves will be replaced with new glass doors. So this is actually the rendering that was attached to your agenda. Just in the past couple days, the Appliance have provided a new version of that rendering. So they had shown four garage doors into the gym area, but they don't feel that that's necessary. So they'll just be adding the two doors into the gym and then removing the other overhead door And then they'll be adding the metal siding with two different colors, darker brown and a lighter tan siding there, as well as three windows where they had been showing two existing windows before, and those will be new windows in those spaces. And then they've indicated there'll be a new full light door at the entrance on the far side. On the north side of the building, it's currently a concrete siding, which is somewhat deteriorated. So they plan to repair that wall and repaint it and then also refurbish some of the metal siding further into the property. But most of this is not visible from the street. It's right up against the adjacent building. So the repairs there will be fairly minimal. The red line on the screen here is the property boundary. So as you can see, that runs right through what will be the new parking area. So the applicants will need to provide evidence of a cross-access easement with the adjacent property recorded with the County Register of Deeds just to ensure that they do have access there to both of the The parking areas since they are planning to use use that portion for for a driveway When they are showing seven parking spaces and adjacent to the new tenants the the plan shows wheel stops in front of the parking spaces including the spaces in front of the the two overhead doors this had initially looked like something that would be not a good idea if when it was believed that that was going to be a construction space but Since they plan to have a gym occupying that space, they don't anticipate needing to have cars coming in and out, so they'll just be using those overhead doors sort of as ventilation and as windows for the gym. So the concrete wheel stops are reasonable to have in that space. The dashed line here is a fence, which was added in the last couple of years without any kind of plan commission approval. And it blocks access between the larger parking area adjacent to North Street and then the smaller one. closer to St. Paul Avenue. The applicants have stated that that was added to prevent cars from driving through the parking lot, cutting through when North Street or St. Paul Avenue get backed up, cutting through to the other street to get around, and then also to prevent pedestrians from cutting through there as well. And they would like to actually keep the keep this fence in place Going forward they do plan to remove the concrete barriers, but they plan to keep the fence As you can see it does extend from the one building to the other And it has a little cutout to provide access to the door here but it does not Provide pedestrian or vehicular access between the two parking areas This is the existing office space for Hanna Home Healthcare on the other side of the building. That will be unchanged, and the applicants have stated that they do use most of these spots during the day for their employees, and they would like to keep it that way. They do have 32 existing parking spaces on that side, and then seven spaces on the other side. The total 39 spaces would be adequate based on the new code for the proposed uses in all of those spaces. They would still need an exception from the plan commission under the existing code, but seven spaces is not adequate for the four new tenants under any parking requirement. that the city has and uh... staff would not recommend approving an exception for that uh... we don't feel that seven spaces can be enough the applicants have noted that uh... there is some existing street parking there for five spaces right in front of the building and uh... up and down saint paul avenue now uh... they've uh... stated that they would like to uh... have the tenants use spaces in municipal lots in the area Closest municipal lot is 900 feet away as the crow flies, so that would be quite a long walk. So staff is recommending that if the fence is going to stay in place, it should be moved at least up to the corner of the building adjacent to North Street, which would allow four or five additional spaces on the St. Paul side of the building. As well as some shared parking throughout the lot and then that there should be some allowance for pedestrian access Through the through the fence as well as a gate to open it potentially if if cars do need to get through So here's just a another couple photos of that portion of the lot, so you can see where we would like the fence to go at the corner there. We do feel that the existing fence is a good design that would be appropriate for this kind of a business. So staff recommends approval of final site plan and architecture review for 222 West St. Paul Avenue with the conditions that the applicant must provide evidence of the cross-access easement with the adjacent property to allow for shared use of the parking area and, if applicable, to allow the fence to cross the property boundaries. And that evidence should be provided prior to issuance of building permits. the fence must be removed or relocated prior to issuance of building permits and if it is to be relocated rather than removed the design and location must be approved by staff so we would like it to be in that corner and it must include an opening for pedestrian access and a gate for vehicular access. And then all applicable permits must be approved for work on the building and property. Double fees may be charged for work which has already been completed, including roof repair. And any work which has been done in a manner which is not building code compliant may need to be removed and redone at the property owner's expense. That's just noted because it does appear that the applicants have been doing some work at The building was in a pretty rough shape, so we understand that some work may have needed to be done right away, but there will be double fees for that, and the building department will need to be able to review it properly. And engineering department and fire department comments also to be addressed.

Thank you, Charlie. Before we come to the Commission for any questions, could you put the exhibit up again, which is shot this one? Are you able to draw a line to show where you would suggest the fence be moved to?

It would be from this corner here, basically straight across to where the retaining wall is here.

And therefore those parking spaces against the building itself as we're looking at it to the left?

Those, yeah, those would be, it would be another, I think, five spaces that would be, that could be primarily for use of the tenants, and we feel that they probably will need to have some shared parking with the tenants in the other lot as well.

Okay, thank you. What questions do we have for Charlie? Commissioner Nelson?

Where you just drew that line, does the home health business have ADA access to their building in a different place? If you put the fence where you just said, you can see that the end of the sidewalk is the ramp and that's where the handicap parking is?

Yeah, they would need to probably relocate that handicap space and probably they might need to re-stripe the parking in that area a little as well.

Okay, thank you. Other questions? Seeing none, I would then go out to the audience. Is there anyone here that wants to address this item? Seeing none, I'll come back to the commission. Commissioner Melton.

I see what you're talking about, moving the fence so we gain a couple of parking spots, but seven or 12 parking spots doesn't seem like anywhere near enough for four businesses and a gym.

Right, yeah, I guess that's sort of the best solution that we could come up with without, which would still provide some ability to block people from cutting through, but would allow some shared parking.

Okay, and I do, I mean, it's exciting to find a use for an old building like this and refurbish it, and that part's exciting. So I'm happy with that. I'm just unclear about how that... How that would work with.

I mean, I would think that a gym would have people coming to work out right right yeah, we feel that if they did allow some shared parking for you know if they allowed them to use some of the spaces in the larger lots. The hours that a gym would be busy would be probably before and after regular office hours so there might be

There might be some allowance for shared parking there, and that would meet the at least the new code what what the requirements are okay if they got permission from the neighbor you know across the property line there is there enough room to put parking on you know like mirror this parking on the other side.

No, there wouldn't be enough to allow parking spaces and driveway access. Not right up against the building. There are some parking spaces in that lot, but we haven't had any discussion about shared parking with the neighboring property, but I wouldn't think they would be interested in that.

So is there... With the new code that requires fewer parking spots, does the strip mall next door have excess space?

They might have excess space from what the code requires, but my guess is they would not want to have you know, shared parking with the adjacent property. That's something the applicants could explore, certainly. If they had an agreement with a neighboring property owner for some shared parking, that would be another solution that they could.

Is the property owner here to address what their thoughts are about parking?

We'll give them a chance if there are other questions from any of the other commissioners. Commissioner Granger?

How many people are employed by the home health care that are normally parked in that lot?

They didn't give us a number of employees. I guess if they are here, they could probably answer that. They said that they wanted to use all those spaces. When I was out there during a regular weekday, it looked like the majority of spaces were used, but it was not. There were spaces that were open, so.

Commissioner Wells? I'm comfortable with the 39 parking spaces for the businesses at this property if there is shared access between those so we would have to have that pedestrian access between the two parking lots i don't think seven is enough for a gym plus businesses that would later move into space but i think 39 is is appropriate but again there has to be pedestrian access between those two parking lots

Could there potentially be a break in the fence, not necessarily a gate, but a break that could allow people to go through, but not a vehicle? Because I feel like if there's a gate that's always closed, people coming to these tenant spaces won't realize they can park on the other side because it may be hard to see that there's a gate that can open and close. But if there was a break in the fence, like a defined pedestrian walkway between the two.

Commissioner Keller, do you have any comment?

Well, you could create four or five more parallel stalls on the south side of that parking lot. It's not on the proposed property. It's off property. And I think there's a dumpster corral there, if I'm not mistaken. But it would allow additional parking if necessary. You'd have to get an agreement with the adjacent landowner.

Charlie, if I understood it, if they move the gate, I mean, if they move the fence to where the staff is proposing and they have a part of it that is a pedestrian gate, if you will, and marked appropriately, was there also an intent that the gate would have some kind of mechanism that when and if it was ever needed to have car access, that that would also open?

That, yeah, that was the staff's intention. I think if, as long as there's ability to, you know, it wouldn't be the end of the world to have just a fence there if that's what the Planning Commission is comfortable with. There is access from both streets, so it wouldn't be like a safety concern. But our intention, our recommendation was that there should be access to both parking areas. or access that the gate should allow both pedestrian and vehicular access.

both pedestrian and vehicle.

Yeah.

So theoretically, if you were drawing a picture, you'd have this fence and it would have the ability to open the two middle sections and you would have an access for pedestrian like it shows on the left.

Yeah.

That's the staff's recommendation?

Yeah.

Okay. I'm interested to hear from the applicant. I did go again to this property and I accessed it from north. And my observation was that there was a healthy use of parking spaces for Hanna Home Services, but it wasn't, every space was not taken. And the area that we're looking at here where the large boulders are and the cars are parked, there was nobody there that allowed me to park there. And my observation was that moving the fence would be a positive attribute for the improvement of the building that we're discussing tonight, and that I'll be interested to hear what the plan commissioners have to say about that, but at this time I would invite the applicant to come to address the commission. You've heard our discussion, and perhaps you could give us some answers and your view. Charlie, is the applicant here?

Charlie, I couldn't hear she's this is the architect for the applicant.

OK, would you please come forward and give your name and address?

My name is Ashley Pollacks. I'm with Thrive Architects 259 South Street, Waukesha.

Welcome Ashley, thank you.

The owner was not feeling well today, so he messaged me about 15 minutes before the meeting that he could not make it tonight We did talk about this fence and I think their plan was rather than relocating it and all the expense that comes with an automatic gate and everything, that they would be more inclined to just remove it altogether and just not have a fence there at all.

Well, Ashley, You're not speaking totally for the owner, but perhaps you could give us some insight. One of the objectives was to not encourage, or maybe a stronger word would be not permit, people to make a decision that instead of going all the way down North Street and then making some turns later, or not having to travel on Main Street that they would turn around and go cut through. They'd come to North and cut through so that they didn't have to deal with the traffic lights and the gapping and all of that sort of thing. So if they remove the fence, that would defeat that intent.

That's correct. That is why they put the fence in initially. But if our options are either to move the fence back and add these gates and everything or not get an approval at all, I think they'd be more inclined to just remove the fence rather than going through all the trouble of adding these gates and relocating that ADA stall and everything else.

Are there any questions for Ashley, Commissioner?

Ashley, I've got a suggestion for you. Consider taking the parking on the south side of the building and making it angular parking, 45 degrees, something like that. You'll then be able to park on both sides of the proposed space, which will pick up. You'll net additional parking stalls, and it probably won't adversely affect the parking on the tenant on the west side. And it's paint. So, yeah, you'll still have to deal with the handicap and so forth. Think if the end goal is to net additional parking stalls for the development. That's the way to do it if you're gonna take the fence down And if you're worried about speed you know people invented speed bumps that do a great job slowing traffic So it might be an easier scenario than a fence in this situation

Sure, yeah. I think that would be a good option. I know we had tried laying out the parking lot using angled stalls. That was before we had a survey, so we could certainly revisit that.

there other questions no comments commissioner wells i'm less concerned with moving vehicles between two lots than just pedestrians so i'd be comfortable leaving the fence where it is at if you were to remove the small l near the building to allow someone to walk between the two lots my feeling is that then people can move between the two lots if they need to park the south side to get to the north side or the north side to get to the south side If you're looking for a parking spot, I don't think it's a terrible thing to have to go around to find a different spot if you can see it. So my feeling is just as long as we have pedestrian access between the two, I'm comfortable with leaving the fence where it's at. It would be nice to have a gate if you want to be able to move vehicles through, but that also gets difficult if you're also trying to prevent people from cutting through. So that's my feeling. I think there's sufficient parking in the area, especially if you're a gym user. It shouldn't be crazy that you're parking a little bit further and walking a bit to go work out. So that's my feeling of the rest of the commission.

If they can work out, they can walk? Is that what you're saying?

That's my thought.

Okay. I do agree with that idea. I think the big concern is that people are able to get to the new building space. So if part of that was removed to let people go through, and as I said earlier, if there's a physical gate they have to open, they're less likely to want to walk through. But if there is just a break that allows pedestrians through, I think that would be good. and I'd be okay with leaving it in the current location as well if pedestrians can get through.

Any other questions or comments?

I can make a motion.

I was just going to say if Jack could make a motion to that effect.

So I will make a motion to approve with staff comments allowing for the fence to remain in the present location provided there is a pedestrian opening to allow pedestrians to move between the two, between the north and south lot.

Did you make any comment about parking? With regard to what Commissioner Keller suggested?

No, I won't make that a condition. If the applicant is able to work out a different parking arrangement that nets more spots, I believe they should be able to work that through with staff.

Thank you, is there a second? Commissioner Wilson? Second. Are there further comments or discussion on this item? If not, then all of us who are in favor of the motion as stated say aye. Aye. Those opposed? So, Commissioner Keller?

Nay.

Nay. So the vote is five, is four to one. Thank you, and so that means that it is approved, but you heard the discussion in terms of the parking especially, and also about the access for the pedestrian through the fence.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you, Ashley.

And just to reflect that I clicked too quickly, so we will correct that vote cast after the meeting for the minutes.

Maria, you're just saying what showed on the display? Okay, well thank you for that. The next item on our agenda is the final site plan and architectural review for Dolphin Drive, Coral Drive. Store it right. A request to approve final plans for a new 64,000 square foot self-storage facility consisting of two buildings on 4.2712 acres of land at the northeast corner of Coral Drive and Dolphin Drive located in the M1 Light Manufacturing District. And Megan, welcome.

Thank you very much. I'll be presenting the next two agenda items within this presentation, both the final site plan and architecture review, as well as the certified survey map. Great. This site is located in the northeast corner of the city, just off the intersection of East Main Street and Les Paul Parkway in what is existing Business Park area. The certified survey map would combine the two parcels highlighted in red, a combined approximately 4.2 acres. There's some notable topography on this site with the protected wetlands that is outlined in green on the southern end of the site, as well as a protected wetland on the adjacent parcel to the east. The applicant proposes two narrow self-storage buildings with northern building one almost 36,000 square feet and southern building two smaller at just over 28,000 square feet. There would be a one-way drive aisle between the two buildings with an entrance on Dolphin and exit on Coral Drives. Parking stalls would be located just west of building one, adjacent to the main office space. The applicant has requested relief from the minimum parking requirements. Their proposed operation would require 28 stalls in the current code, 14 in the new code. They are requesting five parking stalls. The applicant stated that most of their customers would drive right through the fenced gate. and parked directly in front of their unit or near an access door. So the parking outside of that fenced area would only be for their one employee and any customers who were starting or ending their rental. They also stated that this limited parking has worked well at their other locations in Oconomowoc and Heartland. The applicant is requesting relief as well from the driveway width and apron geometry standards on Dolphin Drive. Staff recommends the city standard flare rather than the radius that's shown along Dolphin Drive, but would work with the applicant to potentially increase the driveway width. That concern came from concerns that customers who have limited experience driving large vehicles would have a challenge pulling onto the property. This is the interior of the northern building one. You can see storage units of a variety of sizes, including many that are accessed from the drive aisle. And there also, the main office is depicted on the southern, or on the bottom picture at the far west end. Southern Building 2, very similar layout. Notably, this building also has drive aisle access units on the east end as well. This is the rendering of the approach on Dolphin. They would have a 16-foot iron decorative fence across the drive aisle with vehicular access. The exterior cladding would be insulated horizontal and vertical metal panels with some color variation, as you can see in the rendering. You can see some of the color variation along the southern facade of Building 2, as well as the fencing that would close off the Coral Drive exit and secure that area. Here you can see their landscape plan. They would leave the wetlands area on the southern portion of the site largely intact and add a stormwater detention pond on the west end of the site. They would include a variety of trees and shrubbery around the site with a particular concentration along the south side facade of building two facing Coral Drive. The applicant is also requesting relief from a staff recommendation to add curb and gutter along Coral Drive. Currently the curb extends approximately two-thirds of the frontage and tapers into a deteriorated gravel shoulder. The applicant would like to pave the gravel shoulder without adding curb and gutter. Public Works strongly recommends the full coral frontage meet the city standard with curb and gutter because it is a public right-of-way road. The applicant conveyed concerns about stormwater drainage if curb and gutter is installed. The engineering division believes this can be remedied through adding storm structure to discharge or allowing the curbed flow line to discharge along the east of coral terminus, which would connect directly back into the identified wetland. The applicant is also requesting relief from the requirement to add curb and gutter to the east end of their site, the terminus of their drive aisle as it turns onto Coral. That's marked with the yellow dashed line. Staff is comfortable with this omission because the applicant has acknowledged staff's concern of erosion and plans to manage it accordingly. Here are two pictures of the extent of the coral frontage that does not have curb and gutter. You can see the pavement is white deteriorated into gravel and also tapers slightly as you get further east. The applicant is also requesting relief from the staff recommendation to add sidewalk along Dolphin Drive. They've stated that they're concerned about the steep grading along the western portion of the property and the possibility that larger vehicles would bottom out when entering their facility. The engineering department has analyzed the grading plan and believes that there is a solution to address that concern and have a sidewalk. This image shows the 2023 sidewalk plan designations for each segment in this area. The blue lines are installed sidewalk, the orange is medium priority uninstalled sidewalk, and the yellow is low priority uninstalled sidewalk. You'll see the dolphin drive frontage is medium priority and the coral drive is low priority. According to the sidewalk plan, for medium priority segments, city staff should advocate for sidewalks. Plan commission approval should be to be installed as part of the development. Low priority, city staff would not recommend that sidewalks be installed for plan commission approval. Staff, consistent with the sidewalk plan, staff continues to recommend sidewalk along dolphin. but would not recommend sidewalk along Coral at this time. Here you can see two pictures, views of the Dolphin Drive frontage. On the left, that is facing north towards the Raised Grain Brewery, and the right is facing south. And here is their grading plan submitted by the applicant. The green is lower elevation and blue is higher elevation. And then the applicant also provided some photos of their Oconomowoc location. They plan to use very similar materials to give the commission a sense of what this would look like. And before I lay out the final approval, we received comments from the alderman of the district, Mike Christian, who was unable to attend this meeting, but would like his comments right into the record. So I'll read them verbatim now. He says, I met with one of the owners at the Oconomowoc location, which has their phase one site Open for about a year, the phase two stage has the construction of a tall, large section underway. I found it to be a great business model and very clean and well lit. Questions I had were answered without hesitation and I had a great tour. All common areas, offices, storage unit rental areas are climate controlled year round. They have policies and procedures in place to prevent commercial auto body, auto repair, manufacturing, and people living in the units. I asked how they handle unclaimed property and dump unwanted items on site or on the street. I was told that they have no dumpsters or recycling bins on site and customers must remove and take away waste themselves. They monitor and regulate trash around the property daily and they have many cameras. I asked about sprinklers and was told that if Waukesha requires them, they will put them in. Since all space is climate control year round, I asked where the HVAC mechanicals are located. I was told all mechanicals were located inside. When I was leaving, I noticed that the front of the building has at least two AC condensing units mounted on plastic pads on the ground. Traffic concerns for the Waukesha location are that I frequently drive semi trucks eastbound on Coral Drive and then attempt to turn left on Dolphin to go north. It is a very tight turn and is made dangerous if raised grain is busy as cars will be parked all the way down to Coral Drive. My concern is large moving trucks and recreational vehicles navigation through the intersection or into Stuart Wright lot before the gate is opened. To summarize, staff recommends approval of the final site plan and architectural review for the proposed self-storage facility at Dolphin Drive and Coral Drive with the following conditions. Sidewalk be installed along the frontage of Dolphin Drive per the 2023 City of Waukesha sidewalk plan, which identified this segment as medium priority. Engineering department, fire department, and water utility comments and concerns will be addressed.

Thank you, Megan. What questions do we have? Do we have questions? Seeing no questions right at this moment, I'd like to go out to the audience. Is there anyone that wants to address the commission? And is the applicant here? And would you like to address the commission? If you would give your name and your address, please.

Yes, thank you. Chris White with RA Smith 16745 West Blue Mountain Road. I'm the civil engineer on the project. We also have Ashley. She's two for one today as the architect, and then Joe's here with his wife as the developer. um so yeah as kind of mentioned and i think you guys might have received a cover letter from me um there as she mentioned there's a couple of requests from us um i think she did a good job of kind of outlining um our points um i think sidewalk and coral drive since they're no longer recommending it um we can kind of move on from that point um sidewalk on dolphin um Again, adding in sidewalk where we have our steep driveway will only make the driveway steeper. A lot of people are going to be accessing this place with U-Hauls who aren't used to driving U-Hauls, and so keeping that driveway as flat as possible on this challenging site is important. Keep in mind, too, we've already pushed the boundaries, I think, on the grading plan with this. Storage facilities are unique in that they don't have to have flat floors. The buildings are actually pitched already at 1% to deal with the grading challenges on the site. And so lowering the buildings to fix the driveway is just not possible. um i think her points about the zoning code are great and yeah and most of the customers don't stop at the office they go straight to their unit um i think we uh i talked to engineering this morning about the the driveway shapes and radiuses um i think we're totally fine with switching to a flare driveway if we can just get a little relief on the width and we'll work with staff on um on figuring out that exact width when we get to that point so um driveway or curb and gutter along coral um so yes like we like she said um right now the pavements just deteriorated away there's not much left of it so we will go in and and repave what was there um where the vehicles will drive over um adding curb and gutter will only complicate our uh our drainage towards the wetlands, adding in storm sewer isn't an easy fix. We actually already got non-favorable news from the DNR about these wetlands. The DNR believes they're not artificial. I disagree, but we have to play by their rules. And so we have a lot of permitting ahead of us to actually do this project and fill the wetlands that are needed to get across this. So adding in storm sewer and more discharges to the wetlands is going to slow down this project and impede it. I think those were all the main points.

Okay, Chris, just to summarize, you're asking for relief from curb and gutter on Dauphin?

On coral, the east west road.

Sorry, I believe that that has already been discussed and was not being required.

That was being recommended by staff.

Yeah. So I think it's no sidewalk and coral. We've agreed on that, but they did request curb and gutter on coral.

Yes. Okay. We need to have kind of an explicit list of what are the questions that need some feedback from the plan commission. And so you have also expressed what the owner is asking to say these were the staff recommendations and these are the ones we would like to have the plan commission relieve us of.

Yeah, so I guess maybe going one at a time with if that would help so sidewalk along Dolphin would be the first request would be to not install that. And so that would be the shorter road, the North South Rd. OK, and the second item second item would be not installing curb and gutter on coral for the. Last third of the Rd.

OK.

THIRD ONE IS WORKING WITH CITY STAFF ON CHANGING THE DRIVEWAYS TO HAVE FLAYERS BUT BE A LITTLE BIT WIDER TO HELP INEXPERIENCED DRIVERS WITH U-HALLS GET IN AND OUT.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE ENTRY TO THE DRIVEWAY? YES. OKAY.

I think the parking relief is also on there for not needing 28 stalls under current code and only providing five official parking stalls. But basically, there's plenty of parking space in between the two buildings.

Okay. Yeah. Is there anything else that, from the owner's perspective, needs to be addressed? Yeah.

I think one more point just to point out because I based on the alderman's comment was where the mechanical units are they are outside ground mounted they're not shown on the plans yet once they are we will provide screening around them and that with landscaping and then that will all be sorted out with staff by the time we get we'll go for final permit.

Anything else, Chris?

I think that's it, yeah. Rachel? Okay, that's it.

Do we have questions for Chris on the items that we've just listed? Commissioner Molson.

I kind of agree with not doing the sidewalk on Dolphin Drive. I drove through there and that whole neighborhood only has sidewalk on one side of the street. And so since it does have sidewalk on one side of the street, it is a safe place to walk for a pedestrian. And this would just be kind of an empty segment. And I also don't think there's all that many walkers other than the patrons of Ray's Green. So I kind of agree with that. I think we can come up with a motion to address the driveway issue. I do think we should require the curbing gutter on Coral Drive, but those are just my thoughts.

Thank you. Other comments from other commissioners? Commissioner Granger?

I feel strongly that the sidewalk needs to be there, because I go over there often to raise grain, and I feel like not having the sidewalk, and if you have more vehicles in the area, it just creates danger to pedestrians trying to walk to raise grain if they're parking along Coral. And I also agree that we should have curb and gutter installed.

On Coral? Yes. And sidewalk on Dolphin? Correct. Okay, did you have any comment about the driveway access? I'm good with the flare. Okay, thank you. Commissioner Wells, we're literally going down these so that we have a sense of the commissioner here.

As much as I'm usually the guy who's advocating for sidewalk, I'm skeptical that we will have an opportunity to add sidewalk on the rest of Dolphin any time in the near future. So I'm not sure that that's... one I'm comfortable mandating here. This is large, with the exception of raised grain, this is a large industrial area. I think if we've got concerns about sidewalk, we would want to address those at the raised grain property first and probably do something with crossings across the, across Dolphin Drive. I don't know that once we add the driveway into this property that there's as great a need for sidewalk on that side. I don't have a strong opinion on the curb and gutter at Coral, and I'm comfortable with the amount of parking that is on the property for its use.

Thank you for your comments. And Commissioner Olsen, do you have anything else to add to what you've already said?

I'm also comfortable with the number of parking spots that they have.

Okay. Commissioner Keller.

How much street parking is used on weekends for raised grain, do you know? A lot. A lot? Even with the surface parking they have on site? Yes. Okay.

Yeah, there's never enough surface spots there. So we have two commissioners who have personal experience with us.

I've been there. It's good. I've been there. Next question is the site to the... This would be to the north. Is that a developable site, or is that just wetlands behind the building? Do you know? To the east, do you mean?

Yeah, north is up on here. To the east. I would say no. There is a radio tower in the middle of that field. They probably have lots of rates to it. And then that entire area is low and depressed. It... We have to continue to study that to figure out how we're going to cross the ditch. Not the point here, but developing that would be quite an undertaking, and I don't know if the DNR would allow that much wetland to be filled.

Well, then the question is, if that's a potential dead-end road, does the city need to look at a cul-de-sac at that point for a vehicle turnaround? This is more for city engineering.

Yeah.

I mean, just a stubbed off road makes no sense. That's a dead end.

Right. The engineering department comments at this time were just to get the curb in for that section of the road. They had no mention of wanting to do a turnaround or anything at this time.

Okay.

Certainly the driveway that Joe is proposing to install could be used as a turnaround, you know.

Yeah, there's always a T-turn, I suppose, with a cul-de-sac. Okay. I guess I'm in favor of curb and gutter just because it cleans up what amounts to a dirty scenario for plowing and everything else. Sidewalk, I guess I'm somewhat ambivalent. As long as there's sidewalk on the other side, I think that's fine.

Thank you. I had an opportunity to go out there actually twice and I would like to just add my comments because it's going to be a discussion tonight because we have a Pine Commission and we have two who believe this and three who believe that in terms of our recommendations. I believe that because the city went through the effort to put together a sidewalk plan for the whole community and has weighted the importance of it, when a development comes in like yours, that's our, sort of our only opportunity to implement the plan that we have adopted, so I would be in favor of the sidewalk with regard to Dolphin. I believe that the curb and gutter on Coral needs to be completed. Across the street, it's all curb and gutter. And so I think that the... the continuation of it on coral is important i'm not quite that i understand your concerns that it's going to affect the runoff and that you have extra work to do because a curb and gutter of this small area would be installed. Did you have any further comment on that?

Yeah, so the way that road's pitched, it's pitched towards the ditch that's on the opposite side of where would be the curb. And so if we add in that curb and gutter, we're gonna stop that drainage. And so we would have to figure out a way to accommodate the drainage. Storm sewer would require, the storm sewer itself, probably one structure wouldn't be a big deal, but the storm sewer has to go somewhere, which would be into the ditch. And so adding that extra permitting of the wetlands, I can't confirm we can even do that yet. So that would be a big challenge.

Would you please explain why you're raising the issue of a storm sewer?

So if you have the curb and gutter, we need the storm sewer to accommodate the drainage that's going to be blocked by that curb now. Because right now it just sheet drains out into the ditch. And so if we add in the storm sewer, we would have to add a discharge point into the ditch, which would just add complications with the permitting already required with the DNR and that ditch.

My confusion is... who raised the issue of the storm sewer? Is that a recommendation?

Well, no, if you require the curb and gutter, we have to accommodate drainage. We can't just put up a dam, which is what the curb and gutter would act like.

Okay, and I guess I would ask, Megan, you can't just install part of a curb and gutter and have a cut between that would allow that water to exit, you know, exit.

Yeah, the engineering department comments were that they could either add storm structure to discharge or allow the curved flow line to discharge along the east end terminus of coral, which would connect directly back into the wetland. If it can't drain directly into the wetland, it can go to the end of the site to the adjacent east, which would connect directly back based on the flow of the wetland.

And so again, their recommendation is?

The recommendation is curb and gutter.

Okay, thank you. Are there any further questions before we start this discussion? Thank you, Chris, for your comments.

Absolutely, thank you.

And I would ask, is there anyone in the audience that wanted to add their comments before we have a discussion amongst the commissioners? And is there any further comment from staff? Megan, you or Doug? Not at this time. All right, thank you. Well, let's bring it back here and try to see where we are on this. First of all, we have the idea that we have a recommendation based on the sidewalk plan of the city that this is a medium requirement and that the staff is asking us to approve a sidewalk installation in Dolphin. I understand, I think Commissioner Malston has.

Yeah, I mean, I'm normally in favor of sidewalks too. I just think this may be, Maybe I disagree with the sidewalk plan that this should be an orange section instead of a yellow section. So.

But right now you don't support right now.

Right now I do not support forcing them to put in a sidewalk. All right. And I agree with alderman wells that that if we were going to put in a sidewalk here, we would do it at raise grain, which is what's generating the pedestrians.

of thinking about our challenges that raised green is not in front of us tonight and so we're going to have to deal with what we're being asked. Commissioner Wells, did you want to make further comment?

Yeah, so my concern with adding sidewalk at Dolphin and Coral is that that sidewalk doesn't go anywhere yet, which I realize I've made that argument the opposite way, but there's not additional parking on Coral Drive I'm not seeing where the pedestrian traffic would generate to to use that Sidewalk that wouldn't be able to use the other side dolphin Just as easily. I think that there's a case to be made for having pedestrian crossings on dolphin to serve that need So I don't know that I don't know that I can find the justification to complicate this project with the sidewalks there.

Thank you. And Commissioner Keller, your comment about a requirement for a sidewalk on Dalton.

I'm okay with curb and gutter sidewalk. I don't think it's necessary, but I'd like to put the city on notice to figure out how they're going to terminate Coral Drive in the future. Because it appears everywhere else there is a cul-de-sac when the property's dead end. Because that will affect, I guess, you know, the necessary for curb and gutter.

Okay, so I have an understanding of where the commission is on this. Let me then go to the curb and gutter on Coral. Commissioner Granger, do you have a...

One other comment about the sidewalk. I think, like I said, I frequent over there and there's people parking everywhere to go to raise grain. I understand it's their customers. This isn't their cost to add this sidewalk. But I feel like if that sidewalk is not down there, it's never going to get added. The business is crazy when you go over there, especially on the weekend, there's cars parked everywhere. And if people tend to park on coral, or even in that parking lot that we see just south of coral, if a business isn't there, people will park anywhere. And if they can get to the blue sidewalk, that's fine if there's pedestrian crossing, but they cross to there and then they cross again to get back over to raised grain. And the concern about this road being steep, maybe not as safe. then you have people walking there, especially when it gets dark out, walking back and forth. So that's why I'm a proponent for the sidewalk. As far as the curb and gutter, I think that's necessary if we're switching to that topic. I think it's necessary, yes, to make coral look complete on the end. And I think if engineering said you could just install that curb and gutter and let it run off to the east and to the west land, I don't know why we need to tie into the sewer system if that can just run off into the wetland, if I'm understanding correctly what engineering recommended.

I think engineering is probably fine with it, but the DNR might have other opinions because it's wetland. And that would be where the delay or the challenge would be.

And that would happen after we take a position on this. And so, Commissioner Wells, your position on coral?

I don't have a strong opinion either way.

Okay. Commissioner Malster.

I think the curb and gutter should be installed.

Okay. Commissioner Keller. Okay. And I agree with both of you. In terms of the curl.

For the record, Commissioner Keller said he agreed that the curb and gutter should be installed. Thank you.

Okay, then that takes us to the driveway. Is the commission comfortable with the driveway dimension and design to be between the applicant and the staff once this approval is granted? Okay, thank you. And the applicant is asking for relief from the required parking in front of their building. Right now they are proposing five spaces. Is the commission comfortable with that? Yes. Okay, so where we really are is that we will need a motion that includes one set or another of requirements and we'll have to take a vote on that. So I'm going to attempt this, but we're a commission of friends, right? So if I miss some detail or misrepresent it, I'm sure that they'll help me out with this. My intent is to have a motion that allows people to vote for or against, depending upon what is included in it. So I would move, that the commission grant final site plan and architectural approval to the Dolphin Drive, Coral Drive application for store it right and give that applicant relief to allow five parking spaces to be able to negotiate and discuss with the staff what type of driveway access and dimension will be allowed. and to require curb and gutter to be installed on Coral Drive, and to also require that sidewalk be installed on Dolphin. Is there a second to that motion? Granger seconds. So we know that this has all of the recommendations that have come forward to us from the staff and we know that there are a variety of opinions about this. Would you like some further discussion? Commissioner Molson.

Do you want to add to your motion the other staff comments to be addressed?

Yes, and thank you for that save. Okay. So my motion would include, and I imagine Commissioner Granger would agree with that, that in addition to what I said would also be the staff comments from engineering, et cetera. Thank you for that. Is there further discussion since you know what the motion says?

It seems to me the delta here is the sidewalk extension on Dolphin. Pardon me? That's the delta. That's the difference between, okay.

Seeing no further discussion.

When you were taking notes and everything, I thought it was me, Keller, and Wells against the sidewalk. You didn't go with the majority?

I'm kind of coming around to the sidewalk after further discussion. So I guess at this point I am in favor of sidewalk. And then I think with that having installed, if we do vote to install sidewalk at Dolphin, that the remaining section of Dolphin that is medium priority should then become high priority as part of our sidewalk plan.

So that would be your comment to the staff?

Yes.

Going forward. And Commissioner Keller.

kind of anti-sidewalk. I don't think it's necessary. We have it on the other side of the street. The major user for the sidewalk's not going to have it installed, which would be raised grain. And the rest of the industrial park's already developed. And so until those things change, the sidewalks won't be added. So you're looking out a long way in the future for that to happen. So as long as it's on one side of the street, that would be the best I think we can get in an industrial park. Commissioner Molson.

Well, and I also agree that we don't need a sidewalk there, particularly for this location, but it also affects the nature of the driveway. So to have a safer driveway and just an empty segment of sidewalk, I would rather have the safer, less steep driveway. Thank you.

Is there any further discussion?

For the sidewalk, again, I understand the safety of the driveway, but I feel like pedestrians walking is more of my concern and a safety for them. So that's why I'm in favor of it.

Thank you.

And then back to the curb and gutter. In the motion, I feel like what was brought up regarding the drainage not being allowed to the wetland, can we add a commentary that that has to... Be reviewed with the DNR, because if they're not going to allow drainage to go into the wetland, that may be a stopper on us asking for the curb and gutter.

I think that we can take we can. have a vote, we can make a decision on this, and then if this causes a problem with the DNR and the applicant can bring it back and ask to have a further review based on the DNR's objection, if that occurs. Okay?

May I? Not sure if I'm allowed to, no?

I think the commission would probably be in favor of allowing you to speak.

Yes, I do just want to clarify. I don't think the DNR is going to say you can't drain to the wetland. It's just about how you drain to the wetland and that's that's the kicker. So adding in storm sewer would require wetland disturbance and that's the permitting hiccup.

If that's the approach that you take, but I think this is really a discussion between you and the DNR.

Yes, yeah, and also the city because it's your right away. And if we don't add a curb and gutter and we just let it, we're concentrating the flow once you add that curb and gutter. And so you could get erosion issues at the end where it dips off into the right away. So it, yeah, which then would be on the city to maintain those erosion issues.

Which is, I think, a further discussion from after the action on the commission.

Yeah, okay.

Okay, thanks, Chris.

Sorry Commissioner Keller good just a quick suggestion that maybe you create a profile between the curb gutter and The building just to see what kind of issues you have Thank you, I think we're ready to vote

Okay, so all those in favor of the motion as stated with the addition of the staff comments, please say aye. Aye. All right, thank you for that, Maria. Let's individually vote.

Aye.

Aye.

So this is a final vote from the Plan Commission as opposed to taking it to the Common Council. So being on the Plan Commission is a challenging role for all of us because we bring different perspectives to it. I appreciate the the concern of the commissioners who voted yes and the concern of the commissioners who voted no. So should this go forward and the applicant finds that one of the things that we voted on has caused a disturbance to the plan as a whole, we want the plan to go forward and we want you to bring your business to Waukesha. and we wanna be able to work with you to make that work. As of tonight, the vote says we required certain things. So if you do find that there are problems going forward and that you have a basis to bring it back to the commission to have it reviewed, I would encourage that you do that. So thank you for everybody for our conversation tonight. Megan, I believe that there's also another item here, the certified survey map. That's correct. Please go ahead. Sure.

All right. For the certified survey map, Dolphin Coral Drive, Stuart Wright, a request to approve a one-lot CSM covering 4.2712 acres of land at the northeast corner of Coral Drive and Dolphin Drive located in the M1 Light Manufacturing District.

I will make a motion to approve with any staff comments.

There's been a motion and a second. Is there any discussion? If not, we're ready to vote. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? Thank you. That was a unanimous vote from the commission for the certified survey map. Thank you for everyone who participated in this tonight. The next item on our agenda is a minor site plan and architectural review for the property at 1343 Ellis Street, Zender Marketing, and a request to approve plans for a 690 square foot addition to the west end of the building for a needed warehouse space located in the M2 General Manufacturing District. Thayne, I believe this is yours.

It is, and good evening. Thank you. As you just said, this is the presentation for the minor site plan and architectural review at 1343 Ellis Street. So here is some satellite imagery of the property. It is on the east side of the city, just west of the Les Paul Parkway. Highlighted here are the areas that would be affected under this plan. This is some images taken from the street. So here is a site plan for the existing conditions on the property. In the hashed areas you can see where there would be construction or changes. On the east side of the property there is a concrete pad that extends out to the property line. That will be modified and then on the West side of the property. There is a portion of the driveway that extends South and sort of wraps along the building. There's also an overhead door there. So here is the proposed site plan. On the east side of the property where that concrete pad was, that will be reconstructed to feature a handicap parking stall as well as an ADA accessible sidewalk. It will also be shortened so it will no longer abut the property line. On the west side of the property, there will be an addition made to the warehouse. This is about 690 square feet. The driveway here will actually be widened and it will then feature a dumpster enclosure. As you saw in the pictures, the dumpsters are currently stored sort of in the corner of the building here. This is a floor plan for the proposed addition. As you can see, there will be a new overhead door facing Ellis Street to the north. Here we have some more detailed schematics and elevations for the dumpster enclosure and the building addition. The panels and roofing would match the existing warehouse. The dumpster enclosure will be made of concrete masonry bricks and then facing the driveway to the east there will be a latch gate and the applicant said that this would be screened with cedar boards. So this site is zoned M2 general manufacturing. As stated, the addition is about 690 square feet. It will aesthetically match the existing building. The concrete pad will then feature an ADA accessible handicap parking spot and a smaller footprint and adding dumpster enclosure. So staff recommends approval. The only comments added to this one is from the engineering division and the water utility. You can see it there on your screen. This seems to be more as a if needed condition. The fire department did not add anything to this.

Okay, thank you, Zane. Do we have questions for Zane? No, thank you. Is there anyone in the audience that would like to address the plan commission on this item? Is the applicant here? Do you have any further comments? It's all been covered as far as you're concerned. Okay, thank you very much. Then I will bring it back to the plan commission.

I will make a motion to approve with all staff comments.

Thank you. Is there a second? Thank you, Commissioner Granger. There's a motion and a second to adopt this along with the staff comments. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? I would just like to make a comment and that is I went to Ellis Street and I want to compliment the owner in terms of what you've done in terms of the the attractiveness of your site and the attention to detail and that this will just enlarge your business opportunity, which we congratulate you on, but also thank you for the work that you've done to add to the attractiveness of Ellis Street. The next item on our agenda is a consultation. And that just means that the applicant is here so that before they proceed in any specific direction, they have some idea what the plan commissioners would like to comment about their proposal. So I believe, Doug, you're going to take us through this?

Yes, I will. So like you said, this is just a consultation. So the developer just wants to introduce the project to the Commission and then get any feedback you may have on design elements, architectural styles, or any other concerns that come out at you based on what he proposes before you this evening. So this is over on Niagara Street. And that is I'm just to the east of. There you go. Just to the east of frame Park just south of Moreland Boulevard and look for the east of White Rock. Currently there is the former Navistar industrial site, which has been raised at this time, just a vacant open industrial site. Then there was residential across the street from that on Niagara. Residential continues up to Moreland with mixtures of multifamily, single family, some senior housing, nursing home, condos, a big mix of everything throughout that neighborhood. Here's a close-up of the site in question. The site's about .75 acres. There's currently two parcels here. There still are under the M1 zoning, so if this were to go forward, it would need to be rezoned for residential, obviously. But this was land that had been used for kind of storage purposes for trucks and trailers in the past. And now that there's no longer any heavy active industrial use on the property across the street, it seems like the use for maybe residentials could be considered at this location. Especially as you see here on the photo, there's quite a bit of residential properties directly around and adjacent to it. Some single family as well as I guess the four unit up here on the corner of Niagara and Cleveland. Here's a picture to kind of familiarize you with the site. So this is looking up Niagara to the east on the top. And here you can see that it's a vacant paved site at this time. There is some fencing around the perimeter. And then on the bottom, you can just see looking to the south down the hill or to the west down the hill. So here's the proposal that a developer would like to consider on this site. They're looking at 24 units on the three-quarters of an acre property. It would be spread over a series of five two-story buildings. The three buildings that run adjacent to Niagara Street would have garage units, that's this darker gray here, attached to a couple of the units in the building. Otherwise, there's surface parking for the rest of the development. And then the 2 interior buildings would not have the garage units to their residents would all be using the surface parking as well. The proposed surface parking on the site. includes 14 identified surface parking spaces and then there are six garage spaces within the project so that brings a total to 20 and then they do sort of highlight possible two or a parking space in front of each of the garage doors which would add six to bring a total to 20. I guess 26 for the site, but it's it's unclear how these would be used. They wouldn't be able to use for the general. Development because if anyone just blocks it, they wouldn't be able to get out of the garages so. So basically they're they're showing 20 accessible parking spaces for the 24 units that they're proposing at this time. So they would need some parking relief if this were to go forward. Also, there would be some concerns with setbacks. Assuming this is going to go into our new zoning code when plans would come through, it would be in our RN4 zoning district, which would have a 15-foot setback along Niagara Street and a 25-foot setback on the rear lot line. So it looks like those buildings aren't meeting that. They would probably need to have some kind of PUD agreement to be able to accomplish designing it as it's laid out here. The building up to the right on the north side of the lot gets very close to the lot line. Not sure how we'd be able to handle screening or anything with that in the future. So that maybe get a little tight there, but something for some discussion points as we get into it further and you have some conversation with the developer. But this seems to be a pinch point there that may make it a little too tight to work. Something to be considered, I guess. As far as the architecture of the buildings go again, there are 2 story buildings with a mix of vertical and horizontal siding shingle shingle roofs. This is the typical building that you'd see along Niagara street side. So then on the interior off the parking lot, you can see where they have those 2 garage doors then. And then access doors are from the inside of the break in the building out on. Niagara street you can see that have balconies out on the top units or little patio porch spaces Facing out then directly on to Niagara for pedestrian walk up and Then on the other buildings again basically the same architecture with the mix of vertical and horizontal siding lots of windows But but they don't have the garage spaces I And they provided us several renderings, just kind of showing how that could look along Niagara. So this would be the three buildings along Niagara Street. You just kind of see how that gives a nice street presence. And then the same ones looking up the street on Niagara. I think there's one more. Yeah, here's the interior of the site. So you can see the parking along this side behind the buildings that face out to Niagara, and then the proposed units on the two buildings on the interior of the lot. They also do show some little open space amenities there to the north of the building, or excuse me, to the east of the buildings where the driveway would come in, have some shared common space. So at this time, no formal action is to be taken on this item. This is an opportunity for you to have a discussion with the developer. The developer is here and would invite that discussion. But before that, the alderman, Alderman Christine, has sent in a message. He wasn't able to make it, and he apologized for that. But he wanted me to read his comments about the project into the record. I have met with Dwan Cherry, DBA Cherry Faith, many times and have reviewed his proposals. I support what has been proposed so far and feel it will be a good fit for the neighborhood. There is a very similar property on Niagara that has been listed for sale and I hope similar development will be proposed. This is a great fit to improve the neighborhood surrounding the former Navistar Foundry. And that's from Alderman Christine, the Alderman of the District.

Thank you, Doug. Would you bring up the exhibit that is kind of a view of Niagara almost up to Cleveland?

The rendering or the photo?

The photo.

Sure.

Thank you.

So this top photo would be Cleveland up at the top of the hill?

Yes. So would you show us where the end of the development is? Is it where the fencing is?

Yeah, so on the south side, the end of development is right here along the fence line. So just off of the screen would be the corner of the lot.

And on the bottom picture that you've taken there?

On the bottom picture, the lot comes up to, I think, about where this green space ends and the tree line starts here.

Okay, thank you.

If I go to the next slide, this kind of shows it on aerial then how high up that is. You can see here's that tree line that was there in that photo at the... Cleveland would be just off to the right here.

Okay, thank you very much. You mentioned that the applicant is here. Would you like to address the commission? Please give your name and your address.

Absolutely.

DeJuan Cherry, 4700 West Cold Spring Road, Greenfield, Wisconsin, 532220.

I'm sorry, I didn't hear your name.

DeJuan Cherry. Thank you. So a little bit about my background. I specialize in housing adults and families with intellectual and developmental disabilities. My story, more than anything, started when I attended Concordia University of Wisconsin. I was a RA. At the time, the organization was named Bethesda. Now they're named Ablite. And I do think that is important to note because, you know, 11 of the units, or excuse me, four of the, 11 of the units would be affordable, but four of the units will be type A. So, you know, this model and future models like this or if the architecture is a little bit different, they will always have units that are type A for, you know, individuals that live by themselves but have a disability or they have a family that takes care of their son or daughter. That is, you know, the foundation as which my business is laid on. And I want to continue with that. You know, I've had numerous conversations with Doug and Jeff, and I think they can also share that same sentiment and passion. And so with this particular uh project um you know i i obviously identified you know there's a lot of single family um in the in the area um you know he gave me great feedback in terms of you know the density right um so i just want to make sure this is on record uh we did you know scale back and go to a 20 unit model we think that would make sense um so it'll be uh 20 units not 24 units i just want to make sure that that goes on record mainly because we want to make sure that we don't go too big in terms of making sure it's not aesthetically pleasing or the height isn't too high where it doesn't look like it doesn't belong there. So I just want to make sure that that is an update that we made. Other than that, going back to the affordable, obviously it's a national conversation, but it's also Something that I would like to note as well too. So just in terms of the rent level for one bedroom units, we are looking for 1027 for one bedroom units and that is by HUD standard for two bedroom affordable. We are looking at 1257. Market rate, obviously, we just kind of take comps from the area and implement that within our pro forma. Two-bedroom at the highest will be $2,000. Two-bedroom for market rate would be about, excuse me, for one-bedroom would be $1,600. roughly 1600 ish. Obviously, you know, to put together a project to make sure it's financially feasible. You know, we want to make sure we add that affordability component. If we could have all units affordable, that'd be fantastic. But, you know, we want to make sure that at the end of the day, it's financially feasible so that when we take it, of course, to a bank and things like that, they are able to say, You know, it's great. We're able to finance this thing. We are working with other organizations and Waukesha to get other funding sources as well, too. So Waukesha, we are working, excuse me, I'm working with Kristen Sylvia from Waukesha Home Funds to get some home funds, part of this project as well too. I am working with MEDC and Waukesha County Center for Growth or Waukesha County Grow Funds to add funds there as well too. Putting together affordable housing deals, it can be very, very difficult, right? And any affordable housing developer can, will share that same sentiment. LIHTC going that route is very competitive, and so that's why we rely on our local municipalities to get certain incentives to help out with the pro forma side of things. But other than that, very excited to hear comments, to hear feedback, and things like that. I do have my architect present for anything architectural-wise, and my general contractor representative as well, too.

Thank you. Did you have a comment? Do you notice when Doug was presenting, we were talking about setbacks, and one particular unit seemed to be of concern?

Yes, that two-bedroom, 900 square foot near that property line.

Hi, my name is Felipe Ornelas. I'm with Engberg Anderson Architects, 320 East Buffalo Street, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Yes, in that unit, we're very early in design, so there's an opportunity to massage those plans, maybe even take those two units in the back and put them together and make an eight unit to get some relief from that setback requirement. So there's a lot of options out there right now.

Okay, thank you for your comments. And when you mentioned you were talking about Kristen Silva from the county? Yes.

Yes, that's, so that's what we apply for, like walk-through home funds. So it's essentially, yeah, yeah. Okay. Kind of more than anything, low-cost debt that we're hoping to acquire.

Okay.

Yeah.

Thank you for that. Before we have a discussion, are there any questions for either of these gentlemen before we go forward here? Apparently not, but don't leave the building.

Absolutely. Okay.

Commissioner Keller?

Quick question before you disappear into the crowd. I think the idea of potentially taking the two northerly buildings and putting them together makes some sense to reduce the setback issues. Or possibly flipping the buildings over and turning your one-bedroom 90 degrees to allow for the distance. Another thing I might suggest is some sidewalks from the street between the buildings to get to the rear building because Your level to have guests and those guests are probably going to be parking on the street as opposed to in the parking lot And if so, they're gonna need to get from the buildings in front to the buildings in the rear time Would make some sense I always really have no negative comments just And you're trying to get ten pounds in a five-pound bag, which is usually the case to maximize the development So well, there's just some comments that you might want to work with absolutely

It's actually one last thing as well, too. It's in its planning stages, but if you can go to kind of the aerial on Niagara Park, it's, yes. I have, I believe Doug and I spoke about this briefly, but I did call the, I think, Parks and Recreation. I didn't get a call back yet, but we would like to, if not when the development is completed for the year, but I do also want to go on record by saying we do want to add a public park on Niagara Park for kids to play and things like that. You know, When I saw this parcel, right, of course there's, you know, challenges with, you know, it being multifamily and kind of surrounded by, you know, single families there and, you know, kind of scattered of multifamily. We said, how can we, you know, give back to this community? Or how can we just give back to the city of Waukesha as a whole? Not just the neighborhood, but just the city, right? So I will, you know, it's in its planning stages, but I am working on how we can get a public park for kids to play, for families to kind of hang out there. on officially on Niagara Park. Right now, I know it has just two trees and it's just kind of grass, like kind of grass area there. But I would love to also add as part of like, you know, this was provided by, you know, Cherry Faith, you know, a public park, Niagara Park, so.

Thank you for that additional information. Absolutely commissioner Keller. You. He had the opportunity that you could make all of the comments you want to do. Okay, thank you.

I thought this looked crowd. I went over to the site and I thought it looked crowded and I was wondering how you're going to handle the elevation changes. Some of the buildings going to look. Kind of sunken. So I thought the architecture was nice. Now that I found out that it's affordable and you're considering a playground, that's excellent news. I sure appreciate that. I'm also concerned about the setback issue because I want people to have a little bit of outdoor space. The parking looks kind of limited, but I'm supportive of the project overall, and I hope we can come to an agreement that works for everybody.

Okay.

Thank you.

Commissioner Wells. So to start, I think that anything you build there is going to be more attractive than the current use. I'm a little leery of that rear setback. I know that tends to be an issue when you're building next to people's homes. I would be slightly concerned that with that closed, there's no opportunity for screening between the building and the rear setback. So I think there's maybe ways to work around that. I'm very comfortable with even a zero lot line development on Niagara Street. I think that as we look to redevelop the NavStar property as a whole, this is kind of a unique space. It's on a major bus line, probably one of our most substantial bus lines running out to Niagara. to the rest of Milwaukee. It's an established route, it's a good route. If there's opportunities to leverage that with parking, especially if we're looking at affordable, either parking at the parking ramp down here with bus access, or using a bus to get around for most of your Residence travel. I was curious as looking at the GIS maps, it seems like the intersection at Niagara and Cleveland is city right away. And looking at your plan where you have your dumpster enclosure, I'm curious if there's an opportunity to exit more directly onto Niagara and do a single direction. through the property or do have your drive lane around the outside of the property to make the most of your space to either do angle parking, have kind of a one-way flow around the property that might get your rear setback if you push the buildings towards Niagara and have the drive lane run around. Overall, I'm very, I like this idea, I think it's, a good fit for a property i'd like to see navistar develop more densely and this is a good toe dip into that the architecture is interesting it's a little different than we've got in the area but i think it's very attractive and i think the mission behind it is very good yeah for this just to want to make sure i clarify so for the entryway um essentially it

going to be an entry to exit going. So so coming off of Niagara and then coming back on, I'm just trying to think if I'm if I'm, you know, like, you know, garbage man, you know, kind of pick it up Instead of reversing.

Well, yeah, it kind of clarifies a little bit more I just wanna make sure I understand so if you were to have a one-way flow of traffic, okay Either from from either way, but instead of having a sidewalk to the plan west you would have a drive lane and so instead of your Drive lane being two cars wide to be able to drive back and forth if you just had one way entrance and exit that might narrow down your amount of Well, asphalt to then have more space for building. Okay. And then maybe you can even make that more of a straight shot if there's, we can work with the city to, I believe the property at plan east is city right away. And so maybe there's a way to work that into the plan. Okay. Right where the pointer is right now. Thank you.

Commissioner Granger.

I was happy when you first came up and you said that you already are changing from 24 units to 20 right away. I felt this is way too crowded for this site. So knowing that it's going to 20 units makes me feel much better, especially with the parking situation. i do agree with commissioner wells about the front of the property i have no problem with it being close to the street and not worrying about the setback there but on the rear of the property i think you definitely need to focus on maintaining that setback especially considering the properties that are right on the other side and those private homes and such they probably don't want to have a building encroaching so much on their yard Otherwise, I really like this. I think it's a great use of this site and the neighborhood that it's in. I think it'll be welcomed to be in this neighborhood. So I would love to see this come into town.

I've been there twice, and the first time I didn't quite get as far up as your lot, so I went back this morning. I'm delighted to see this proposal. I think that it complements, actually, even though there are single family homes between your property and proposal, and the main street where you exit off of Niagara. We have some affordable housing and some good structures there too. So I think this kind of compliments it in terms of it's fitting in with the neighborhood. I would like to make a side comment and that is as you go along and get further along that I always encourage you to have a neighborhood meeting so they know what's going on. And they have some input for you. I'm going to just pause for a second. Doug, my question to you is, in talking to people, a PUD has been mentioned. So if that was required and would address some of the setback and some of the things that Commissioner Wells is talking about, what would initiate a PUD for this development?

Anytime you can't meet the requirements of the zoning code, but I think you can come pretty close and you think that the trade-offs would benefit the city by doing that, that's when you'd propose to do a PUD.

And would you say that this is beginning to look like it might be a candidate for that?

As it looks here on this initial layout, it's going to be very difficult to meet the setbacks with the number of buildings as proposed. So then a PUD would be the first step to try to find a way to maybe make that work if site design and re-layouts can't quite meet all those setbacks.

Okay, and I think PUD is an interesting conversation for the plan commission because that means the city is participating in the development and therefore wants to have a say.

Absolutely.

So are there any further comments? We welcome your proposal. We encourage you to continue with it. Thank you. And we're happy to clarify anything along the way or certainly working with the staff will reflect some of our previous decisions on other developments.

Awesome.

Pardon me?

I just had one. With the PUD, you know, Once we, you know, kind of tweak and modify our plans and things like that, you know, then the next steps would be, you know, PUD, correct? After we go back and, you know, kind of, I think it was the two-bedroom, kind of tweak the things that we need to tweak, would you then say, okay, we kind of agree to the changes that you've made, then move to the PUD? Or I guess what along that, when along that process would you...

I think I'd like to have the staff comment, but that would be something that they would begin to discuss with you if they thought that it was appropriate. Doug, would you clean this up?

Yes, and so like we've had previous discussions on this site and other sites you've looked at, we would have more discussions on that until we come up with a plan that you're feeling really comfortable with. Then we'll apply the zoning code to that more specifically and see if we do need to make some changes or... need relief from anything, that's when we would start to talk about doing a planned unit development. But before that would come, you know, you'd want to revise your plans, go over them with the alderman and also have a neighborhood meeting before that as well. Share your plans with the neighborhood and see if there's any comments there. And also, I'm not sure if there are any people from the neighborhood that wanted to speak. If you would like to, this would be the time to invite them forward as well.

Thank you.

Yeah, no problem at all.

Are there people here in the audience that would like to address the plan commission? If you have some questions, please come to the microphone. Identify yourself by name and address.

My name is Diana Bauer, South 62, West 22980 Town Line Road, Waukesha. And the first thing was, how do you spell your last name, Don? My last name?

Oh, it is cherry, okay, very good.

So my question was, and again, it's a question, on the far right side is a little gray box. It's off the white, what is that? That's the trash? Okay, and on the far north side, on the right.

Please address your questions to staff or the county.

Okay, and then, my apologies, and on the, Far right side of the second blue box, the one that's almost touching, what is that?

I think that's the patio where they were showing the picnic area.

Yeah, it's a patio or a common outdoor space.

Okay, very good. Thank you. Because I own that four-family complex, the four-family rental. That's mine. And so that's where the trash is. Now, I do see that the Niagara doesn't just kind of swoop. It's in Angle Street, and there's a corner. And I know it's a corner. Because the first year that we bought the building, the apartment, there's a corner, and we have to keep that corner clean by snow. Do you know how I know that? I didn't the first year really well, and I got a fine for it. I got a fine for it. So, that corner is mine, and the way this picture is depicted, oops, no, is that corner isn't quite there. So, I'm concerned that, no, go back to the, with the blue, that one. that they're cutting off part of my corner. So I do look forward to the survey is what I'm coming to. I know the people in my building are not as enthused as some of you are with as many people as are coming here. So they are a little concerned and I'm speaking on behalf of my tenants is what it comes to. So they do have concern and I'm just, letting you know that they have concern with as many people are coming, and if it's very affordable housing, and I don't know what the cost of this housing would be, because they are not affordable housing, they're regular housing, they have concern of what affordable housing is, and that certainly makes it interesting for me as a landlord, because if I have everybody leaving, that's not gonna be real good for me, and if that's not real good for me, I'm gonna have to sell, and if I have to sell, no one's gonna wanna buy, and it's gonna be a, it's a snowball all of a sudden. So that puts me in a pickle, and it puts my tenants in a pickle, and so that's the way it goes. I'm just giving my opinions, so that's where I stand.

Thank you for your comments. Thank you. Hello.

Good evening.

Would you give us your name and address, please?

Karina Mediola, 914 Niagara Street. I'm actually right on this side, all on this left side of this document. I was actually gonna bring up the corner she was talking about. It was a long, long time ago. I grew up on this property. I've been there 30 years now. I helped them mow their lawn up at that four family, and it went into where their driveway is depicted on here, their proposed driveway. But regardless, that being said, too, is that entire block, the lots are off. We know this from our immediate neighbors next door to us, our neighbors behind us, Kitty Corner, everyone has, we're sharing everybody's little piece of land. So I think that would change this entire map entirely for a lot of different ways. Also, as of right now, someone had said that lot is vacant. It is not. There are... Um work trucks parked there. They look brand spanking new right now. Um prior to that it was a overflow lot for a used car salesperson. Um I used to help them keep an eye on a lot growing up over there back back when they were still there. Um On a good time with their cars parked right next to each other, that lot fit maybe 55 cars with one way in and only one way out, and not even double. Traffic so there's like no room in that lot at all whatsoever. Also someone had brought up about the bus line that this is a really busy bus line in in and out of Milwaukee. It hasn't been for a few years. They took that away. The bus doesn't even go on Niagara anymore or even up on Cleveland. You have to go all the way down to White Rock now. And the gentleman wanting to bring all this had talked about putting the park up where that grassy knoll is, I call it, we have up there. I remember years and years ago when that lot originally came and it was the grassy knoll, someone had tried to do that, but I believe it was because of certain things with the road and also what was in the ground. They couldn't make a playground there. So it had to stay as is and it has a, you know, got to pick up after your dog sign up there and whatnot. So I'm not too thrilled about this. And I mean, if you see at the picture there, There's like no room for us to breathe next to their just this as is as the picture so I just really hope you guys think about this and please keep us in the loop. I think a lot of lot of us would like to speak on this when we all know about it.

Thank you for your comment.

Again, please, your name and address. Yes, I'm Kelly Mendiola. I also live at 914 Niagara Street. And I'm concerned about the parking for even 20. You're going to have visitors. And right down the block, I'll just give you some information. Right down the block is Frame Park. They have many festivals and stuff at Frame Park. They have what's coming up August 9th, the Old Car Club. When people come to park on Niagara Street, they park right in my driveway. Okay, and I've been fighting this for now. It's actually like 40 years we've been there, and there's not enough parking for all those apartments. And then to have their visitors come, you know, people want to be comfortable. And with the lot that's there right now, even with him there with all the cars, they would park in front of our driveway. I'm old now, so I don't need to get out of my driveway, but my daughter does when she goes to work. The parking is not ample for that many apartments. I'm not a builder or whatever, an architect or anything like that, but there will be problems with parking. I am entirely against everything that was said tonight for this place. And the people up on the hill, that lady's apartment building, they're awesome people. I think the people down the other way on my block are awesome people. Do we really want to disrupt the whole neighborhood? I don't think so.

Thank you for your comments. Is there anyone else here who wanted to be heard?

My name is Shane Peterson. I live at 826 Niagara, just down the street. I don't know if I want to be heard per se. I have questions, maybe not specifically to this, but when something like this is going to take place, how come the residents in the immediate vicinity are not made aware of this?

It sometimes depends upon things such as zoning, and I wonder, Doug, did you want to make a comment about this?

Sure. When a rezoning petition will come in in the future for this project, the city will be notifying everyone that's part of our policy. Now, when someone just wants a consultation with the Planning Commission, they schedule that and have that meeting with the Planning Commission. In this case, we did send out notifications to the neighborhood that this meeting was occurring.

Yeah, I didn't get one.

That could be, you mentioned 800? 826. The notifications go out within 300 feet of the property. That's what the city guidelines call for. And then we found that that works well because the neighbors tend to talk with each other and it spreads very quickly through the neighborhood. Right, right. But our legal guidelines are 300 feet from the property boundaries. So if you didn't make if you missed getting notification, sorry about that, but our policy is like 300 feet.

And then secondly, when you guys were discussing adjustments that would need to be made on those plans before they get propped forth, and then you would discuss things, and what was that thing you called, a PUD? Is that it?

Yeah, that's a planned unit development where it makes special arrangements for it.

And is that when the public is brought in to discuss those matters? Is that what?

Yes, so that would be part of the rezoning process, which neighbors would be notified of. And there will be a discussion here with the plan commission regarding that PUD. Then they make a recommendation onto the Common Council, and there is a formal public hearing before the Common Council to discuss that and hear further concerns. So you'd have multiple opportunities to come before it.

So yeah, thank you for that clarification. So my question then is if adjustments were made and it was brought back to you and they all seemed to fit and there was another discussion, could it bypass the PUD and then still not be brought to the community before it then comes to get passed by the committee?

In this case, no, because the land is currently zoned manufacturing and it has to at least be rezone to a residential use for this to happen. And that will also trigger notifying the neighborhood. OK, and it would be the same process before the plan Commission and then before the Common Council with the formal public hearing.

Okay, I thank you for that clarification. And then one more question, and I don't know if you guys are at liberty to answer this. Is this being backed by part of the federal grant money for this development? Can I ask them that? Can I ask you that? Can I ask? Is there like TIF money or is that what that federal money behind this?

First of all, the commission doesn't know the answer to that. Yeah, I don't know who I can ask. Secondly, I would suggest that. It's going to be the developer who's going to have to put together the financial and the grants and so forth to make this work. So I would address that to him after the meeting is over. But I also would like to let you know and the neighbors know that the agenda for plan commission, for example, and the common council are published. And those agendas would list something if it had to do with anything with this property.

Right, right. I just don't know where to find that. As a citizen, I don't know where to locate that. And so that's all I'm saying.

Yes, the city has a website, and on the website are all of the agendas for all of the various functions of the city. So in this case, it would be the plan commission, and it would be the common council commission. And Doug, that would cover it, yes?

Correct.

And because of the kind of proposal this is, and Doug has been telling you that right now the land is identified for one purpose, to change that, it has to come here, and this body then makes a recommendation to the Common Council, and they take the final action. So there's more than one opportunity for the neighborhood to be heard.

Excellent. Excellent. And I appreciate that.

Yes, sir. I would also just add that your alderman is Mike Christine. He couldn't be here tonight. He had some comments that he had read into the record. Your alderman's a great person to assess this. If you have more questions, need clarification, they're a great conduit to then get those answers for you and advocate if you have a Position that you would like to be heard because the elders do vote on this once it's recommended by the Commission Excellent.

Thank you, and he's your direct connection to all of these functions Mike Christine Mike Christine?

Yes, and his contact info is going to be on the city website. Okay, thank you.

I appreciate you.

And if you have trouble finding the agenda on the website or where to go, just Google Waukesha Plan Commission Agenda, and it brings you right to the exact page on the city website.

Okay, thank you very much.

And if you don't remember all of that, you can call the planning department and they'll help you out with it.

That's fair. I appreciate that.

Thank you for your comments. I just want to point out for all you that did come, thank you for your comments. This is in the very early process, so he may not well know where he wants to go for his funding at this time.

And I know there's no action needed.

Right, this is just a discussion to feel out where he feels the plan Commission is looking at his project. Also to introduce it to the city, and that's why notifications were given out to the neighborhood. And with this early on, like you heard, the Plant Commission and staff has recommended that he has a neighborhood meeting before he gets too far down the road. And so that will happen before he comes back before this board. I appreciate that.

And I want it. I didn't want to derail. But my question about the federal grant money is because I was present. It was probably about five years ago when the development at the end of Niagara Street, when those workforce housing and the others across the street were. Discussed and voted upon And so I attended those meetings and I know there was a lot of us from that community that came and spoke against that and Then it ended up passing anyway And I had spoken to one of the gentlemen on the committee after the fact who's no longer on this committee and he said the reason it was passed is because there was federal money behind it and it was going to pass because there's money being put forth for it to be built and And so I wanted to know if there was money behind this project from the federal government, and since someone is asking to develop, we're just going to pass it because something needs to go there, right? So that was my question, and that was what's behind my question in full transparency.

Well, I appreciate that, but I also would suggest to you that that was that individual's opinion.

Oh, and I'm sure that's true, but that's why I wanted to bring it to the committee as well.

Thank you. Thank you for your comments, all of them. Thank you. All right. Is there anyone else that would like to address the commission? I would bring it back to the commission then. Are there any final thoughts and input to the developer? I think that, Mr. Chair, we've given you as much as we can this evening, and you have an idea of what some of the concerns are, both from the public and from the commission. So I think it's been a productive meeting in terms of having a consultation. So thank you for that. Next on our agenda this evening is the plumbing code update. So Doug, I believe you're gonna take us through this review and possible action on our part?

Yes. And this is a plumbing update to the plumbing code. Essentially, it's going to affect the main section of our building code, which is Chapter 16, and then Chapter 19 is specific plumbing code changes. And as always, with any code changes that come before you, this will be a recommendation on to the Common Council. So these changes before you this evening are to ensure that the city has the proper authorization to review plans and spells out what the applicants must provide for review. The city is a approved reviewer and by the state to be able to review plans for development and with that comes some. sections of the state statute that require we have certain aspects of our code that assure that we're meeting all the state standards and also what's required of the applicants and what's required of the city in doing that review process. So this is just sections that have been added to the code to clear up all that language and this happened somewhat recently. So the building inspection department has been working with the attorney's office closely and rewording of these sections of the code to make it happen. So that's what's before you this evening. So as I mentioned, we are a delegated agent municipality now under the administrative code. And so this section in chapter 19 basically lays out what's required of the community and what will happen with the plan review process going through the city. And then more specifically with the, plumbing code. The plumbing code does allow for work by residents of a home or the owners of the home to be able to work on their own plumbing. But the state code has certain limitations to what can be done. So we've added those limitations in to clearly define what can and cannot be done by the homeowner. And then also in section 1917 of the plumbing permits, dealing with the issuing of the permits, They just cleared up some of their language on how the permits will be reviewed and issued by the city then. So those are the three sections that will be changed. And at this time, staff is recommending approval of these updates. And again, this will go on to the Common Council for full action.

Thank you, Doug. Questions? I was a little concerned when you started it on that one screen, because I thought you were going to read them.

I can go back and do that.

I think you've covered it more than adequately. So I would be happy to make a motion that we approve and recommend to the Common Council the updates shown to us to the building code and the plumbing code pertaining to the plan review and construction.

I'll second.

Thank you, Commissioner Wells seconds. Seeing no need to have a discussion, all those in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed? So that was a unanimous endorsement and recommendation. And then lastly, on our agenda, is surplus land, and so there is a review and possible action on a proposal to declare 1.986 acres parcel of city-owned vacant land as surplus. The parcel, which is identified here, is located in the village of Waukesha along Big Bend South. Big Ben Road, south of Mill Creek, and is no longer needed by the Waukesha Water Utility. Doug?

Sure. So that pretty much sums it up. As you recall, a meeting or two ago that we had brought in several water utility properties before you. Now they've determined they will not need this parcel as well. This is located outside of the city limits. On the red line, you can see where the city boundary is. So this is on Big Bend Road, south of Lonsdale Road. Here you can see where Mill Creek comes across. And so the parcel in blue is the one that we're discussing. It's just about two acres in size on vacant land. And the water utility will no longer have a need for that based on their recent hookup with the Great Lakes water. So they've determined they don't need it. We've sent out requests from any other departments to express any need for the property. We've heard nothing back from any departments having a desire to keep the property. So we're just asking that it be determined to be surplus at this time. And again, like the ordinance changes will be a recommendation onto the Common Council. Oh, here's a picture of the site if you wanna see. Just empty field.

Okay, well, we have a motion on the table and it was intended to include all city department comments and concerns. I assume that the seconder agrees with that. Any discussion?

I don't think we had one yet. I'll make a motion to recommend.

I thought I did. Okay, thank you. Commissioner Wells made a motion. I'm gonna second it. Is there any discussion? Seeing none, we're ready to vote. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Those opposed? It's probably good that the meeting is coming to an end since it's been interesting, let's say. So welcome again to Megan and also to Thayne. We understood everything you did in your presentation, so that's going well. And if there's no further comment, is there anything from the Community Development Department? Maria? Okay, well, if that's the case, then if there is no objection, we are adjourned.