Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

You've been here two hours, Carolyn. Oh, goodness. Sorry. Somebody should have caught. I'm not going to sit down because then I have to get up again. I'd like to call the uh Monday, February 9th meeting of the planning and zoning commission to order. Roll call, please. Gino Roco Gonzalez here. Mark Clener here. Mark Pontek here. Mayor Hegedorn here. John Bortman here. Chuck Watson here. Chad Briggs here. Kellen Wit here. Mike Wood. Ken Shear here. Aaron Beckman

here. Please rise and join me for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

I trust everyone's had the opportunity to read through the minutes from my January 12th meeting. I would entertain a motion for approval. Motion to approve. Second. Motion made and seconded to approve the minutes. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. Opposed. Have it. Next on the agenda, file number 26-0201, preliminary platman Industrial Park, Plat 14, amendment to redevelop plan Patki Properties. Good evening. Oh, you want to go first?

Um, good evening, commissioners. Uh Aaron Green uh 803 Wilshshire Drive, economic development director for the city of Washington. So what you have in front of you is the preliminary plat for the Hydeman Industrial Park, plat 14. Um so Mr. John Pachy approached 353 and wanted to purchase the 2.5 acre lot that is adjacent to his current piece of property out in the Heidman Industrial Park. Um the 353 uh agreed under certain u preliminary uh reasons and they put forth uh some stipulations in the purchase agreement. Uh Mr. Padkkey was agreeable to those terms and has since uh signed the purchase agreement and so we're just hoping to get approval tonight so we can take this to the council and finish the deal.

Yeah. So essentially this lot here uh this uh plat 14 um this lot has always been uh a detention easement for the Hydeman Industrial Park. Um and uh we have this this parcel or see that this parcel right here um has a warehouse on it now and Paky is in in process of purchasing this lot for potential future expansion. I believe Charles said, do you know what he's um let's see, it's on my it's on my staff report. Uh future future parking lot expansion is what he would like to do at at some point. Um but as this uh whole lot is a uh uh storm water detention easement currently. Uh that would require approval from uh our engineering department. So as it currently stands, this lot cannot be uh built on without approval from our engineering department. Um, it had never been pl uh formally platted before. Um, so that's why we're coming before you to get this formally platted so the 353 Redevelopment Commission can sell the land to uh Mr. Pachy.

Any questions? Okay. Any commissioners? So, currently there's a storm water retent retention on the back part or the middle part of that the entire lot storm water retention. Correct. But currently it has like for runoff from the lot because it's like they've got the silt fences all around. They've got silt fences out there I guess now as they're building uh what what patches

there's a raised level and then a a lower center section with a pipe going out like it's a detention area and stuff like that. And looking at just what I could see from survey markers in the stakes, it's like that is protruding onto that area already. Well, you done some work on that.

All I can say is that what what 353 discussed because they never marketed this piece of property for for sale anyway. They were approached by Mr. Padkkey because he wanted to go ahead. The the the thing that I think the the redevelopment corporation uh wanted to get across to Mr. pad key and this has been going on for probably a year or better uh would be is that any improvements that are done to this lot as as Aaron said are going to be subject to the engineering department and he's going to have to go ahead and keep the same amount of storm water retention he had before if not if not more for for that lot. So, if he can redesign something just to go ahead and make that more uh to to go ahead and do it for like Aaron said for a parking lot or something our storage area, flat storage area, he can do that, but it's going to be subject to the storm water regulations. And then and um Charles, we don't have a plan yet for how he wants to go ahead and do any improvements on this lot. And that's and that's the purpose of this plat is to have all of what Darren just said in uh on on paper so we can enforce that in the future.

I understand that. But just today when I was out there, I went out there and and looked at it, it looks like he's already built a certain amount of detention area for the current building that's there that comes out. And like I say, just looking at the survey markers there. Sure. So that that may be I'm not okay aware of and I and I will tell you everything that was built within Hydeman the storm water retention was taken into account the that was developed as part of the park.

So that's already built in if but if and with this that part of that design was leaving this lot as a as a drainage easement. So, if they want to alter that, that's what they're going to have to go back and and check. But they're not subject to none of the lot owners within Hydeman uh are subject to providing on-site detention based based upon the fact that it was already incorporated within the park. Right. But that was my next question. Is it a there a is it just drainage area through there or is it actually a detention? It's just drainage. That's what I thought. Yep. It's just drainage. Okay.

Any other questions? Okay, I don't have any else. If uh no other questions, I would entertain a motion. I'll make a motion to approve. I'll second. Motion made and seconded to approve the uh plat 14 of the uh Hidman Industrial Park. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. I. Opposed? Eyes have it. And then there'll be some documents to sign, I guess. Oh, yes. And then we also need to um uh approve the uh recommendation or we need to uh the amendment to the redvelopment plan.

Thank you. We need to approve the amendment to the development plan for 353 to actually sell this lot to Mr. Pek. So that's two separate things, correct? And that that's a public hearing as well. Okay. I was not aware of that. So I would entertain a motion then to approve the amendment that's in your packet also. or we have to open open it up to public hearing first. Sorry. Is there anybody in the audience that would like to speak to this? There you go. Okay. Then I would entertain a motion. I'll make a motion to approve the amendment. Then I'll second.

Motion made and seconded that we approve the amendment to the development plan for the acquisition of an industrial park commonly known as the Elmer C. Hydeman Industrial Park. All those in favor? I I opposed. I have it. Okay. Anything else on that one? No.

Okay. Moving ahead. Uh, next item on the agenda is file number 26-0202. Preliminary plat stonebridge plat 7. Yes. So, um, this is a preliminary plat that came before uh, council a few months ago. And uh this this um the plat that you see here, this is what they're applying to do um today. This was well I guess yeah, so a couple months ago um uh Vic came to uh the council and asked for a boundary adjustment to uh turn part of Stonebridge phase 3, these two lots, which is what we're currently approving today, into one lot because he had a home buyer who wanted to build a home, a large home over two lots. Uh but that deal has since fallen through. So he wants to turn it back into two lots for two homes. Um completely identical to uh the his overall plan for Stonebridge phase three as you can kind of see in this uh overall uh maps. So um just reverting this lot back to the way it was. So any questions?

Any questions from commissioners? There anybody in the audience that would like to speak to this? If not, I would entertain a motion. Motion to approve. I'll second it. Motion made and seconded to approve the uh preliminary plat for Stonebridge Plat 7. All those in favor signify by saying I. I. I.

Opposed. Eyes have it. Item number five, file number 26-0203, preliminary platwood plat 2. Um, sorry. Um, I guess just look on the TV for this one. Our TV down here stopped uh working. But so this is uh the preliminary plat for Applewood Plat 2. the uh condo association for the dup duplexes on excuse me Apple Blossom Lane uh have come and they are requesting um to uh well they are requesting for us to uh dissolve their condo association but they are dissolving their condo association and turning uh their duplexes uh um into single family attached homes. Um, so this is kind of uh, you know, the conversation that we've been having for a couple of months about uh, the changes to our R2 zoning district. Um, and this plat that we have before uh, you the the commission tonight um, is not compliant with our current zoning regulations. Um, a lot of these lots are uh much too small. Um, you know, 5,000 ft, 5,100 feet. um they they do not meet the minimum width of the R2 district. Um and obviously uh they have they are zero lot line which we do not currently allow in the R2 zoning district. So um I'm recommending I'm I'm later in the meeting I'm going to talk about um those changes to the R2 district and hopefully get a recommendation from this body uh to move that forward. Um but I would recommend uh conditional approval of the plat based on uh the code changes that we discuss um later tonight. Um, another thing to make you aware of is we're not entirely sure of uh where the sewer lies on this property. So, we've recommended um to put some language into the final plat um just saying, hey, if there's if the sewer lateral only goes to one lot

that there can be access um for uh maintenance and that sort of thing. So, any questions? Oh, I guess one one more thing. Um, if we did not go down this route of approving the the R2 code changes or some form of the R2 code changes, um, this applicant would have to, uh, reszone this whole, uh, condominium complex to R1C and apply for a variance. So, just a couple more steps of bure bureaucracy if we did not uh, approve the changes. So, any questions? Yeah. What kind of variance would you apply for? For the whole area?

Yes. Mhm. Since it's one plat, you would apply just just one variance for the whole whole plat. And that would be uh lot size, uh setbacks, um the the use itself because we don't allow single family attached homes in R2 currently, and the lot width as well. So, kind of a lot of things, but um you know, I think I think we could pack them in there. So, but we don't we don't want to do You would have to go ahead and reszone it to R1C at least to go ahead and do the zero lot line on one side, but the minimum lot size you development. What's that? How old is this development? 2002. There you go. I want to say surprise you. How'd that fly? How'd that get by?

Well, I mean these these are currently duplexes. They're set up as uh one lot. It's our our maps show that there is a lot line. If you look at that map right there, it shows that there is a lot line down the middle. But that's just how the county uh shows the lots for taxing purposes. They are current there are currently six lots. Um so this lists lot 1A and 1B, but that that map is a little misleading. So All right. Thank you. And this isn't the first time they've talked about it because my parents lived in there. Oh, okay. I tried to get them to do this five years ago and I couldn't get everybody on board. Sure.

And they they they have all the prop something else I should mention is they have all the property owners on on board. So, everyone is gung-ho about this. I just planted the seed. I Yep. Any questions from commissioners? So, as of right now, it doesn't meet code, but you're saying based our discussion later this afternoon around R2, how we probably will expand the availability or like the limits of R2, then it would correct. Therefore, there's nothing else that we need to do. Correct. Yeah. Just just recommend approval based on uh the code change. Got it. So you're saying this is contingent. If it passed, it would be contingent. Correct.

Just want to make sure. Correct. Got it. Any other questions or comments? Anyone in the audience want to speak to this? Yes, Kurt. Please state your name. Please state your name and address. My name is Kurt. I just I don't have a dog in a fight here, but uh I do want to say that this comes up quite a bit and this comes up because the city now allows single family uh zero lot line, right? So, right, I think this is a good move that the city gives these folks the ability to eliminate a condo association. All your banks want a fee simple owner.

So, the condo laws were something that was created in the 70s. it was the only operation that a developer had to do something like this. And now that the city has an R1C or or a single family detached zero lot line ability, um you know, I know you have your minimums of 6,000, but I think when you probably look at that in the aggregate, there's 6,000 per lot on the aggregate. So, u I see some 62s, some 61, some 59. just to let you know that you're going to be bringing these people in compliance with current codes or letting have the ability. So I as a no dog in a fight, but I think it's great that you're looking at this.

Thank you. Thank you, sir. Anyone else would like to speak to this? If not, I would entertain a motion. I I would move that we approve on the contingency that it will be directed that you'll make a recommendation on item seven. Right. Can I do that? Yes. With the staff notes about the sewer with the with the staff notes. Correct. Do I have a second?

A second. Motion made and seconded that we uh give tenative uh approval pending the uh code change possibly coming up later and make that recommendation to approve. All those in favor signify by saying I. I opposed. Eyes have it. Thank you. Next item number 26-0204 sketch plane review Parkway Estates Fox Creek PDR.

Yes. So, uh, this is the, uh, first step in or excuse me, second step in the, uh, plan development process. Um, we've been approached by KJU and, uh, Houston Homes out of, uh, St. Charles. Is that correct?

Ofall, sorry, Fallon. Uh, uh, to, uh, set up a, uh, plan development residential, um, off uh, the newly opened Fox Crest Drive um, down there by uh, Stone Crest. Um so the applicant is requesting to reszone uh 7.1 acres the uh area highlighted in red here from uh R2 and R3 to uh plan development residential. Um they plan to create uh 78 lots all with um attached um zero lot line uh town homes. Um this uh design is uh consistent with what we recommend in our uh comprehensive plan. um residential suburban which recommends um a mix of detached and attached single family homes. Um the reason why they are requesting to reszone to uh uh planned development is uh because of the uh street widths. Um this main street that you see here is uh 30 ft wide which we do not currently allow uh in our subdivision regulations. And also they are proposing uh 12t alleys um along the back of these uh rear loaded uh town homes here which we require um to be 20 ft um in our in our code. So um with the planned uh development they they they could do this uh contingent on approval of course. Um let's see what else here. Um the the development is proposing to uh have uh six shared off- streetet parking spaces off this west alley, four on street park, excuse me, on street off- streetet parking spaces uh on this uh main road here. Uh their mailbox is uh and correct me if I'm wrong later about any of this. Um is uh planned to be uh just north of the uh the parking area. Um and

along the inside of the correct yes and we would require uh parking on one side and I'll have the uh the uh the applicants come up and I they have a presentation to uh talk to you about. So

Joe Cub with KJU our development partners with Houston Homes based in Oalen Missouri. Uh Houston Homes has ex very good experience in delivering highquality residential communities throughout the St. Louis re region including New Town in St. Charles. Over the course of planning for this project, we've uh listened to the community's feedback, focused on what residents feel is a need and what they would like to see in the future development. In response, we are proposing this development that consists of 78 attached independentlyowned homes designed specifically to support workforce housing meet uh while maintaining neighborhood character and term values. In proposed layout, we emphasize strong interconnectivity, utilizing rear alleyways, and reducing and reducing frontload garages. improving streetscape aesthetics and enhance the pedestrian safety in this design. This design promotes walkability and more traditional neighborhood feel. Given the site proximity to Phoenix Park and shopping, we believe this type of residential development is a natural fit in this area. the con with the accessibility of uh the development throughout design. Sorry. The combination of accessibility, housing, thoughtful design, and nearby recreational amenities we make makes this project well suited and serve both the current residents and the future of

our community. Houston Homes will go more into the presentation of what they're building, so on so forth. With the alleyways being 12 foot, we're mimicking we I know Darren's made a comment to us in the past about making alleyways in developments like what it is on High Street in Oldtown, you know, making that interconnecting feel. We believe this gives a good point of this area. So, thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Jill.

Please state your name and address. Todd Meyer with Houston Homes in Ofallen, Missouri. So, uh, just want to thank you all for, uh, having us here tonight. Um, maybe if we go back to the Houston Homes slide, Aaron. Um, just a little bit on Houston Homes. We're we're based, uh, you know, right here, uh, in the area. And we focus on building in St. Charles, uh, Warren, and Lincoln counties at the moment. Uh we're interested in in building in Franklin County obviously or we wouldn't be here. Uh but we're we uh John Houston has a long history uh in the home building industry. Uh worked for Vantage and McBride and and uh you know other builders before he launched the company about 15 years ago. uh and really prides himself on on building uh the highest quality product that we can and uh really providing a lot of uh things in the houses that other builders charge for that are just included. Uh we've got a list of about 20 things that that we provide that other builders charge for. So we we really do feel like we're giving more people, you know, are giving people more value for their money. um going on uh you know as as you know we've we've got uh this location uh just south of Phoenix Center and Phoenix Park uh that uh that we're we're looking at here. It's about 7 acres. Uh if you want to go forward um Fox of course has been built. Um the sidewalks are in now. Uh and we're looking at this uh 7 acres that's just uh south of Aspen Valley, the senior home and and the the new fire station uh that's going there. And and I think uh as we talk about the plan uh you know the just wanted to hit on a few of the urban planning goals that I think the city has has outlined. One is smart

growth. uh really accommodating uh you know not only for uh you know new residents to come into town uh but really uh this idea of expanding different housing options uh that you know not everybody wants to live in an apartment uh and not everybody can afford you know a a larger single family home. Uh so this is uh this is a a really good middle ground. Uh and we we are not uh apartment builders. uh we don't build condos or or any of those things. We we focus uh on uh town homes and single family detached homes. And so this is this is kind of what we believe uh when the when cities like Washington want to provide more attainable housing uh this is a way uh for us to get there. uh because we'd like to uh provide a price point that is more achievable uh for a wider range of folks whether that be young uh folks who are just coming into the market uh or even older folks who are downsizing and don't want to take care of uh you know a bigger house uh in the future.

The other thing is um you know Joe touched on um the kind of the the transportation and connectivity uh options. So, you know, we we really wanted to look at this plan uh and leverage, you know, what has been built with Fox uh coming through the property. Uh but we've limited uh the curb cuts to that to, you know, one at the uh at the east end and one at the west end. And then, uh we've got two different products that we're talking about here. Uh one is a what we call a front load product where the garage is on the front of the house. That's what you're seeing on the perimeter of the plan in in light blue. Uh and then in the center of the plan, which uh Aaron alluded to, is this rear loaded product, which lives a little bit differently. Uh right, so it has really nice curb appeal to it. Uh and this that's what those look like here. This is a picture picture of those. Uh so you get uh front porches and you get uh front doors that face the street. uh the garage and the parking and all that stuff is back on the alley where you get uh trash pickup and and all of that. Um this is this picture shows you what that um that front loaded product looks like. So this is at the perimeter. Uh and you know we're we're looking at uh you know any anywhere from uh four to uh six units per building, that kind of thing. So, so I think you know when when we're talking about the plan here, one thing that we were trying to keep in mind is the city's goal and objective from an urban planning standpoint around uh connectivity and walkability, not just with a car, uh, but, you know, really making sure that we're connecting all the sidewalks and the ability for folks to get, you know, from, you know, a community like this or a neighborhood like this to the park or even to up to the Phoenix Shopping Center. And so, you know, we feel that's

a good quality of life uh kind of uh goal, but it also helps to support some of your economic development goals. Uh you know, the more more people you have shopping uh there, the better those stores do and and of course that relates to to your tax revenues. So, so uh for us, what what we're trying to do here is um you know, as as Joe alluded to, uh you know, have an efficient layout that that makes sense. um the the the 30 foot uh wide street. You know, we we do a lot of developments that have 26 foot wide streets. Uh we're we're going to the 30 foot wide street here because uh as Aaron was talking about earlier with the with the parking, we would we would anticipate on street parking, but but sign that and limit it to kind of the inside of the loop. Uh so obviously we you wouldn't have parking on the outside of the loop because you got driveways there. Um, but the nice thing about this plan is that we've got um a a we've got ample amount of off- streetet parking. So, you've got two spaces uh that are uh in most of these units in a garage and then you have two exterior spaces that are also either off streetet or off alley. Uh and then Aaron mentioned a few of the uh the off- streetet guest parking spaces as well. So the the the on street parking would be primarily uh oriented at uh deliveries you know Amazon mail and then guests you know guest parking the uh the alleys we touched on uh you know we did we we know the uh for the standard zoning uh in Washington you know Aaron mentioned the 20 foot wide alley you know in looking at the alleys in downtown Washington they're all 12t wide uh and we would uh recommend and here that we uh sign and regulate these to be one way. Uh so that

helps you know in terms of just the traffic interaction along Fox uh and it and it provides uh you know ample room for trash and fire truck uh access. Now, we don't anticipate that if there is a fire event that the fire truck would even need to go down the alley because uh the fire truck could, you know, position anywhere along Foxcrust or our internal street and reach, you know, with a 150 ft hose to any part of these buildings. Uh the other thing that we're looking at is uh you know we know the code talks about 600 foot dimension for uh pointtooint on fire hydrants. You know we would look at putting fire hydrants you know on either side of of the center of this development so that you can you can stretch a hose to wherever you'd need that as well. Um, and you know, we're we're uh it's beneficial. Of course, we're right across the street from your brand new fire station. So, so that that doesn't hurt either.

You just have to put out a hose. So, um I'll I'll pause there and uh just uh any questions? Uh question I've got I mean, so if you're going to use the 12oot alleyways, what are what's the construction of the alleyway? concrete um chip and seal asphalt. What? I'll let Mr. Unstall take that one.

Good, good question, Chuck. He was proposing that uh I was going to build them seven inches thick because they will be the main feed for the trash these people. The nice thing is u and you know some of you have been involved and some of you haven't. Darren has been involved. Fox Crest has been an interconnector that the city long range planning wanted. So the whole premise is to build something here that doesn't impact the flow of traffic through uh Rabbit Trail Drive to North Crest Drive. So the the concept of the back feed alley uh one way put the trash back there, the trash trucks go in. But to your point, good point, Chuck. Uh they were talking as I said no we're putting them in seven inches thick which is thicker than the code requires. So instead of giving you 20 feet thin, we're going to give you 12 but

Yeah. The reason I ask is just knowing HOAs and the one HOA that we had recently, it's like, you know, everybody's complaining about they don't have enough money for repairs on their chip and seal seat streets and all that kind of stuff and they're wanting the city to take over it and stuff and I just knowing how HO's over a period of time, they just want to make sure. Great question. No, we plan on on doing that in in 7in thick reinforced concrete or Yeah. Yeah. Kurt, is your intentions u or the developers intentions to go ahead and turn all of that over to the city for maintenance? Uh the the I think we talked in site plan the 30 foot street. I don't know if we touched with Aaron. Our Yeah. Our current recommendation is to if the alleys stay 12 feet to have the HOA take them over.

So HOA takes over the alleyways. Yeah. What about the main street going through? Uh that would be city. The city would be main. That would be the city.

I'm just asking. U and again to kind of touch on what uh Joe and Todd said is that um we feel that this is a good fit and we look at okay who's going to buy these products uh you know the the young couple who has no children or one children one child they this will be a great starter home for them. It's also the empty neester who has the big yard and and maybe the spouse is widowed and doesn't need a big yard but wants a yard for their pet and for their grandchildren when they come over. Um I've had a probably two dozen people ask me in the last five to six years, Kurt, build us a town home that gives me a yard. You know, uh what's built downtown in Washington's excellent product. The one complaint I hear is, you know, we'd like just some green space. So, we feel that this builder, uh, Houston, we look, we've we vetted him. He's done, uh, if you ever get a chance to get over in New Town in downtown St. Charles area, uh, you know, they really literally built a town down in there, and these guys, uh, done an excellent job with their product line. So, we feel this is something that in a way it's it's kind of getting back to the old roots of Washington. You know, uh, I grew up on a 6,000 foot lot on High Street. And, you know, my dad took his tank truck and parked in the back of the garage and Ambrose Farmer, who was a police judge, he lived next door to us. So, uh, you know, and today the the town still has alleys in this in this town. So, um, we feel that this will be a good way to meet all the needs cuz if we would design it to where everything's curb cutting, that really goes against what the city and and Darren wants. We we don't want that

congestion on Fox Crest. We don't want, you know, John certainly don't want driveways. Fast forward, you get a fire call and, you know, god forbid, some little old lady doesn't hear very well and she backs out right in front of a fire truck taking off. So, we feel this meets that concern. Uh, so anyway, that's all I have. Are those units in the center, Kurt? Uh, are they just like is their front yards open up to that greenway there? Correct. Correct. And he he has got sidewalks designed so they'll basically walk out and walk down the sidewalk. Okay. Uh, so there are sidewalks on this. There are sidewalks. Yeah, Carolyn, that's that's a little loop there. That's all sidewalks in front of those buildings. And then Fox Crest has a sidewalk currently.

And then they they're proposing it on the outer proposing on the 30 foot street all the way around. So basically walkability. This will that's good. This will probably be the most walkable development in Washington. I mean think of sidewalk too. Uh those the units that face into that little park area, Mr. Ernstaw. Uh do we have an addressing issue with that with our with the how would those be addressed? You know what would probably just off the road the the the this new road that they're building. Yeah, I would say that they would have I don't think that would be an issue. You know, Fox Crest. Well, it can be. Trust me, I've worked with that in St. Louis County. Okay. That's one of my notes. Sure.

And we would work with the city and and fire and and the post office to make sure they're addressed properly because you would have to split it. You would have to split the the four units that are north come off of Fox Crest and be addressed that way. and you'd have to split it and take the other five units that are to the south in that center section and address them off of the loop road. Otherwise, you don't know because that's our that's your access to get to that. If you don't do that, you're not going to know where to where to go in there. Can you guys talk about price point? Yeah, that was

that's good. Yeah, we haven't haven't finalized pricing yet uh because we we're obviously going through the planning process and we're also working with local uh contractors and trades to get bids on on pricing. So, we haven't we don't know where we're ending up yet. Uh but we we know that we want to be less expensive than uh you know comparable single family detached homes. So, we're we're trying to trying to provide a a more attainable product here. And and some of that uh you know, the the reason that we've got the two different products here is to have a little bit more segmentation there, right? U with the the the units that are on the perimeter. Uh obviously, you've got a built-in garage. You don't have a choice. Uh we're looking at some of the units in the in the center. may or may not uh depending on uh where those price points come in because we want to provide some some choice for folks uh that some some folks a garage is more important and for other folks uh a lower price is important. So so we're still still investigating that right now. Yeah.

General range perhaps general range. Uh, I I think we'd be comfortable saying that we'd, you know, if if if bids came in where we hope that they do, uh, that we would be in the, you know, say 275 to, you know, 310 315 range for these kind of units. Yeah. Since you're at the microphone, I have a couple questions, too. Sure.

The uh, garage sizes on that center info area, you have the freestanding garages. What size are those? Right now they're shown at uh 20 by 20. Um so you know they they uh generally we provide an option to make them deeper. Uh if you want uh you can do a garage extension which we offer and many builders do that you know they'll offer a a garage extension of you know 2 feet or 4 feet or six feet that kind of thing. So they can be larger. Um that just eats into your yard. I was wondering where you took that.

Yeah. and and the way that the way that this is laid out now, uh we do have those uh driveways on the on the interior lots, the yellow the yellow units that you're looking at in the plan, those have a driveway in front of the garage. So, you know, what we found is that a lot of people, you know, some some people park cars in garages and other people like to put stuff in garages. So, uh it can provide uh extra storage there. And you know, if you want the flexibility of parking outside, uh you you you can do that. Um so what is that distance from the the alleyway to the garage face?

Alleyway to the garage face is 20 and then it's another 20 20 foot depth right now is what what we're showing. So if they wanted a larger garage, it would go into their yard space and that 20 feet would standard across the front.

That's right. and uh and that that you know I think we're we're still kind of playing with um you know some options there. So if you look at the left side of the plan there's those those four buildings that have three units each on them. So what we're showing there is those are those are currently shown as just parking pads, right? So those would you know obviously be a more affordable uh product than you know if we're building a gang of garages. So so that that's one option. The other option is that you know we could not build a garage just have a parking pad and then you have a deeper yard, right? So you have a or you have a you know more yard space. So there's there's some options there and we we just you know we'd like to test the market a bit um you know to see you know uh where that falls. So,

so those garage aprons where those attached garages would be in that center section that would just be like one big large concrete pour like there wouldn't be any division at the lot lines. Would that be there? Well, there would be a division because, you know, Kurt and company would pour the alleys and then we would come in later and pour the driveways. So, you there would be a seam there, but Yeah. I mean, no barrier fence or anything like that? No, it would it would be open. Yeah, it would be open. Uhhuh. Okay. Yeah.

So, no, I mean, in general, you know, kind of the less fences, the better. Now, obviously, if you buy one of these units and you want to fence it in for a dog or you've got young kids, you know, that's people do elect to do that. So, one thing we didn't mention about the site is that um if you zoom back out, Aaron, uh if you look at the left side of the plan, uh you know, that's quite a bit higher uh than than the right side of the plan here. Uh and and that's, you know, it it falls, you know, from Stone Crest kind of down toward Rabbit Run. Uh and so, you know, what we have is a nice kind of layered effect uh of of these these buildings. So, it's not just a flat site, which can be deceiving, you know, when you look at a plan like this. Uh, but, you know, we do have quite a bit of grade change, which we think is actually, you know, more interesting. Uh, and it and it allows you to kind of layer these views over. And if you look at these lots that are um kind of just opposite the fire station there, um the you know on the on the kind of the right side of the plan here, those would those would look kind of right over the top of those uh those units, right? You got a I don't know, Kurt, 45T of grade change. I think we said

45T from Fox Crest up top there. I'm sorry, North Crest down to Interior Road. So the living on upper side over tuck in if you will that dirt is we think it fits in there good's there's pretty good you kind of see it look to the back how fast drop's there's probably oh every bit of change between the top corner of north andress down.

That that picture is deceiving. I mean, I was just out there. Would you come up to the microphone, too, so we can get this what Aaron's showing is kind of dece kind of deceiving. I was just out there today. I mean, like you say, there is right that last culde-sac out there is there is quite a bit of great down. It drops off quite a bit. And there's currently a residential home being built on North Crest. There's uh and there's two others and probably be pulling building permits here in the next 60 days. There's two of them under construction up there now. Yeah, this is this is a map doesn't have those homes on North Crest there,

right? Uh yeah, there well actually one on the other side, right? But on on that side there's one. But that that land there where he's running his little mouse, that land sits up probably every bit of on the low end 30t and 40t on the upper side of the house. So, in fact, I just sold a lot to a gentleman, uh, grew up here in Washington, lived out of town, came back, and his question was, "What's going to be in my backyard?" And I showed him this plan, and he he said, "Yeah, I'm good with that." He just didn't want six-story apartment buildings in his backyard. And I said, "No, this all going to be single family uh basically what you call uh town homes, owner occupied,

owner occupied town housing." So, I have another question for uh Mr. Meer, if he could come back up to the mic, please. And Kurt, you can stay up there, too, because you'll probably have some reinforcement. I don't want to be too close to this guy. So, caught a bug. So, so since you've built several of these, I'm assuming. Correct. Yes.

What has been your experience with trash cans when it's trash day and people bring their trash cans out on a 12-oot alley? Yeah, it's it's uh it's it's very manageable because typically the trash cans are in the driveway. They're not in the alley. Uh so on the on the uh perimeter town homes, the light blue ones, uh those, you know, a lot of people will either store the trash can in their garage or on the side of their garage. If you're an interior unit, typically you're storing that can those cans in your garage and then you take them to the curb uh you know on on trash and recycling day. But but typically what we see is that people are not dragging those out into the street or the alley. They they tend to stay in the driveways. Uh, and with, you know, I'm not sure about the city's equipment, but with the new trucks that have the, you know, the arms that grab it and dump, you know, they're they're very accessible that way is what we found. So, and and, you know, uh, Kurt mentioned, uh, some of the stuff we're doing in New Town, you know, we have we have quite a bit of product in New Town that does not have a street in front of it, right? There's only an alley. Uh, and those are addressed on the alley. You mentioned the addresses. So, you know, we're building on an alley right now called Arpent Way and your address is just one 1234 Arpant Way, right? And your the front of your yard is a is a lake or a detention pond and the the rear of your house which is these are rear rear loaded units um off of the alley and you know your address is just you know the alley. So, that's another way to do it. But we we have done it the way that you mentioned uh John which is you know some of them are addressed off of Fox Crest and some are addressed off of our interior loop. We're we're indifferent of how the city prefers to do that. Well, I don't know if you're familiar with Form Apartments down off

of V Boulevard and out in Chesterfield, but that is a nightmare to try to find addresses and they have a lot of these inside apartments or inside town homes and it's it's just a mess to try to do that because they went with that same concept when they were built 40 years ago, right? It just doesn't

it's fine in a fire. You can see a fire most of the time. In an EMS call, you can't. So, and that's where the the delay comes into play. And that's why addressing in this is going to be a very important thing. And I would be more in tune if we're going to address off the alleys than we go to a 20ft alley just to have the space to work. You know, when you get a 8 in snow like we had come through this week and you come through and plow and the trash picks up next week, where are they going to set their trash cans? They're going to be out in front of that plow. And now you've got trash trash cans in the alley which trash.

Well, I think what we've had to experience with in the last couple of years and obviously we've gone to contracted waste hauling uh for some time now is that you know our we we we do have to go ahead and blade alleys especially in those older parts of town in order for people to go ahead and get the trash picked up. My only concern I would say for this is if you if the HOA is responsible for the alleys is people's trash aren't going to get picked up if those if those aren't bladed, you know, that's and then we're going to get the complaints regarding why why did my trash get picked up? You know, so that would be just a thing we could talk through and try to figure out. And and I think just for the rest of the commission, I think a 20 foot alley would give better access to the whole back of those garages on both of those sides just because to get fire apparatus in there, to get ambulances in there, whatever, you had to get in there and work. Uh that just gives you more room to do that. I have to say that was one of my major concerns because going from 20 to 12 seemed that's more of a driveway than a I mean I'm a very big fan of alleys as access uh for a lot of stuff you don't have on the street which I think is terrific but you do worry because um we went through this not too long ago and I think Chuck mentioned this about Hussie Acres where 40 years ago they a developer asked for you know this and and they gave the they gave the you know and the HOA was to take care of it. Well, unfortunately people move in and they are have every right to have an assumption that I'm a citizen. I live in Washington. Where's my snow removal? Where is my trash collection? And we want to be able to access them to be able to do that because I'm, you know, I mean, HOAs get a bad rap a lot of times,

but they can be a nightmare. And if they don't pick this up and and have it available and take care of it, as you say, if they don't blade it, there's no nothing's going to be done because they're not either that or they're going to be hauling the trash all the way up to

Fox. Exactly. So, so I think when you're when you're planning in this way, you're think, you know, you're like shooting yourself in the foot down the road, maybe. Now, you might not, but at the same time, this is a concern. I, as I said, I'm a fan of alleys, but I'm also a fan of an alley that that I'd want the fire truck or the ambulance, particularly the ambulance, to be able to get to me if I had that that back access. being this is a two-step process. John, you kind of touched on it and now now that I see where you were going, uh, you really got that and you got more than that because the driveway is 20 ft, got a 12oot alley, and you got 20 foot driveway. So, it's a semantics thing. In reality, what we need to do next month, we'll come back and we'll show you a cross-section. You're really going to be able to drive on uh 52 feet of concrete

all the way through pretty much. So, there's one little there's one little sliver there in that one yard. If you need we need to bump it out 8 ft. But I think we can meet the code. But that would also assume no cars parked behind the garage. Correct. I mean, if I if I park behind my garage, they can park in the garage. Yeah. Yeah. are are behind the garage, then you lose that somebody's or what you could do is just move those garages closer to the house as much green area, right? That's I mean,

but I think I think we're getting caught up in uh the details here. This is just sketch plan review, but again, to Carolyn's point, all the alleys in this town are 12 foot. We're just mirroring what the town has currently. Uh that 20 ft was for R1A brand new. If I was in Kansas and I had all kinds of land cheap, I'd be putting 20 foot alleys in. But I think the fact that we're pouring 20 foot of concrete driveway next to a 12oot alley, in reality, you got 52 feet to come through there. So, well, I would go on record to say that I would prefer to have him 20 ft

just for better access, better workability, city services being provided there. We'll we'll be in back in in front of the city on sketch plan review and we're just this this is just sketch understand layout of what we propose and uh I just want you to know what our thoughts are too.

Yeah. Well, and again what we don't want to do is what we don't want to do is build a lot of street that doesn't get used because the other side of the coin that Darren will mention every foot of concrete you create you got a runoff problem and then you've got MS4 and you got DNR. So, we're trying to balance a very environmentally friendly walkability product here. So, one of my questions was where is the storm water retention for this storm water retention? Stone Crest Lake was built to encompass the entire farm. Okay, this this product is not going to be a part of Stone Crest. It'll have its own HOA, but the storm water is for the whole piece of land.

Okay, then I have another question for Mr. Meyer. Have you ever used residential sprinklers in any of your projects?

Uh, typically we do not. Uh, generally it's um, you know, if we're going, you know, seven units or above and we typically do not do that. Um, we typically limit it to like six units per building is really our max of what we try to do. Um, I did I did want to go back if I could to the HOA for just a moment. Um, and that is that one, we as the as the builder manage the HOA uh, you know, while we're under construction until, you know, the the the neighborhood is built out. And the thing that that we uh have started doing is to build the HOA fee into, you know, the purchase of the home. And so what that does is that um you know the your your concern Carolyn over you know HOAs sometimes get a bad rap or they don't do what they're supposed to do. Um that that guarantees that the HOA is funded to be able to do what it needs to do and then we we set up the uh snow clearing and snow plow as a part of

really

of that. Right. So we we do that to make sure that it's happening and and not just on the uh you know the alleys but the you know the sidewalks and whatnot too, right? Because this is how people are getting to their you know their units in a lot of ways. So so that that's just something that that we typically would uh would do to make sure that we have uh access. So and then Erin, I don't know if you want to go forward. There's a slide in here that shows a preliminary plat at the end here. Um, so this this just shows how how something like this how we would normally plat it. So you see there's solid lines and then there's dashed lines. So the solid lines represent sort of a a lot if you will and then there's kind of like, you know, the subdivided lots between that. And the reason for that is that that's the the dashed lines on the plan show where you're having a shared wall. So that gives you the flexibility uh on the addressing that if you wanted to do address 1 2 3 4-ab CD. You could do it that way. Uh or you could do it, you know, with a say a 4-unit building, you could have an address that's 1 2 3 4 1 2 3 5 1 2 3 6 whatever. You know, we we have flexibility there. Uh but that's that's kind of how that's laid out, how we typically do it. Now, we'll defer to however, you know, the city prefers that. So,

okay. Well, the reason I brought up the sprinklers is on that uh southern side where you have the five units. Yes. Mirroring that center green space and I'm just telling you how the fire department would operate that. Sure. um is the pumper would stop where you had those parking spaces

and then the hose lines would have to reach say for instance that far northern one there was burning you're probably talking uh 150 ft. It's about two about 200 feet uh what you're looking at here from the from the bottom of the uh fiveunit building to the top of the four-unit building that's about 200 feet. So you'd be about 100 foot to the center. Uh and then I think what What we've talked about is hydrants that would be at the sort of top and bottom of that green space. Um, my point is our hose lines are 200t long.

They're twotory houses. So by the time you get the hose off the truck, drag it down the center green space, get to the front door, get in the house, go down. Are these on basements or are they on grade? No, these would have basements. Okay. So you go down for basements up for the second floor. that doesn't allow for much getting around shrubbery and everything else that you have there. That's why I ask about the sprinklers

because I would feel much more comfortable about it if we could maybe look at sprinklering that front middle section where you don't have street frontage access. That way you could you would count on the sprinklers to put the fires out basically because that's what they do. and you wouldn't have any you wouldn't have to do it for the whole rest of the complex because you have street actual street frontage available there and and like Kurt said I think we can come back you know next time and kind of look at that issue in a little bit more detail um you know we obviously when you start talking about sprinkling buildings now our price of the units go goes up and but you can do it fairly reasonable under the plumbing code we've already looked into that.

Yeah. So, you know, we just have to look at all that. But, um, and and you know, just the, you know, as as as we talked about kind of where where access might be coming from and, you know, we can take the hose length into into consideration there, of course. So, giving you some information. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Couple easy questions, I hope. Um Aaron, what the property directly south of this um is that is that part of Stone Crest or No, the property directly south of this is uh Stonebridge um phase four, I believe. So yeah, this is all I'm sorry.

There's a tree line back there that separates them from the VIX. Yep. Back

I got my bearings. Um, I guess my only comment on the alley, well, first of all, I appreciate I appreciate the alley layout. I I appreciate the the more urban nature of the the town homes without having garages glued on the front of every townhouse. Uh, having a street that's not just driveway, driveway, driveway, driveway, driveway. I really appreciate that. Uh, I have one of those old alleys behind my house that we have in Washington. Um, I have a garage off the back of that alley. I only have a 10-ft apron off of my garage. So, you can't really park in it unless you're parallel parked.

Yeah, you have to parallel park behind my garage if you're going to do it at all. Yep.

It's never been an issue. Trash has never been an issue. Um, I've lived there a little over 10 years with the exception of last year's ice storm, which I think is understandable to most people. Trash pickup was never a problem with the the city plows it. That's that's a city alley. U the one time we had an issue though, um we had an ambulance in the alley and the police got there before the ambulance did and we had to play shuffle cars to try to get the ambulance to where the ambulance needed to be because everybody pulled in the alley. You know, all the emergency vehicles come into the alley and the ambulance was the last guy to get there but was the guy that needed to be there the most, right? And that was that was the only time in 10 years that I really saw the alley be the width of the alley be an issue. Okay. Um I do have a little bit of a concern just with particularly with the adjoining properties the out the south and the east loop uh edges. I have just have a little bit of a concern with the density of that up against the single family houses that are, you know, I think those properties around there are mostly single family. Um, you know, if those people are aware of that, I know Mr. Unstall made the comment that that he's spoken with some of those folks. Um, you know, that's that's for them and they'll have an opportunity to come before us. Um, I think other than the addressing, I think that's really probably my only thing. It would be a It would have been a little easier if you do this again.

It would have been a little easier to have some dimensions uh on some of the drawings just for some widths and things. It was a little hard just trying to scale trying to figure out scale of things a little bit. Sure. Sure. You guys have you've talked through that pretty well tonight, I think.

Yeah. And I So I would say so on the alley thing, you know, so again it's I mean these are short runs, right? They're like 200 feet. So like if you had a police car come in one side and then you had an ambulance coming the other side. I mean, you know, we're we're, you know, we we've got communities with much longer alleys that, you know, we we deal with now. Um, you know, sometimes there's, you know, a some sort of easement running down them and, you know, there's things to work around here. You know, you know, we've got, uh, that flexibility of, you know, coming in from either direction during an emergency, uh, situation, even though we'd like to, you know, regulate it to be one way. Would your would your utilities be distributed through the alleys?

Well, we haven't laid out any of the utilities yet, but typically uh we would put wet utilities in the street, so water and sewer, and then the dry utilities, meaning you know data, telecom in the alley,

data. So um and then on the um kind of proximity to the single family homes the these are all uh twostory products and the and the the garages on the on the yellow units the the rear loaded would be one story right so from a massing standpoint we don't feel like it's you know sort of uh you know inappropriate for for the area and as Kurt said you know it's this is not a sixstory you know apartment building kind of thing which would that would be a very different kind of land use and density I guess in in some ways. So

yeah and I I do think the location the location of it in in proximity to to uh uh the commercial development there Phoenix Park. Yeah, Phoenix Phoenix Park and Phoenix Center. I you know the the density of it in relation to that I doesn't really bother me as much. My concern is really just more for the neighbors that have maybe already built around it and and like I say, they'll have a they'll have an opportunity to come before the commission.

Yeah. Something something else of note is that this property is well, excuse me, most of this property is currently zoned R3, which is our most dense uh residential. So, you know, they could uh apply for a subdivision uh plat, you know, combine all those lots there and uh build apartments today without, you know, these two two hearings. So, just want to put that out there. Well, just to give him a little context and stuff, when Kurt first filed this plan a long while back as what his use was going to be for the different areas and stuff, it's typically typically we have the single family residential and as we're getting towards the commercial things like that, we start putting these types of things in to buffer their site from what what the shopping center and everything else is like that and that's that's what was always planned and that's why it's zoned as as it is accordingly and stuff too. So

what's the natural vegetation like? Can you go back to the plat that that backs up to Stonebridge? There's an aerial photo kind of right before this plan that shows a little bit of that or Yeah. the next one. There's a treeine buffer two down. Is it all on your Is it all on your property, Kurt? Yeah,

they're all trees that are so it's a natural buffer is what you're saying between there. built in, but those folks knew that they were buying this when Houston came along. I really felt this was a compromise to come on up to

I know you're sick, but you know the density. I know Chuck when we reszoned it, it's it's it's textbook reszoning in that you've got commercial, you got R1, and in between you have this land that you have to develop. So, um, this is fe simple owner occupied housing. Uh, and actually from a square foot standpoint, Todd, help me out here. You're 1,500,300. So, I think Vick's building 1,200. So, some of these homes will actually be bigger because they're up and down. They're town home, their town home concept. Got

2400 and so, 1400. Yeah. So anyway, that's uh very compatible, I should say, in from a residential. It's just some people are going to have a bigger yard and some people are going to have a smaller yard, but I think this meets the needs of the community. It's a good looking product. I think uh with Phoenix Park being there, I'm I'm shocked when we were doing Fox Crest how many people use Phoenix uh park, the trail. It gets used quite a bit. And then now that pickle ball is the rave, I mean, they they really use the tennis courts down there. So, we feel that uh this meets a product for the the young family all the way to the empty neester uh the downsizer. So,

any other commissioners have any questions for the devel? I'd like to make a comment, please. Yeah, Kurt and Todd and Joe, you know, everything considered tonight, I think you guys have a great design. I really like the elevations. I really like the consideration of uh an alleyway, sidewalks. I mean, it looks like you guys looked at a lot of different things that are really going to make this place nice. But what I really like is the connectivity. I think that's a great idea. So, thank you.

Yeah. No, we're we're like I said, this got a lot of sidewalks in it, but it's the ability that somebody wants to take their little poodle and walk out the front door and hit the park trail, they got the ability to do it without getting their shoes muddy. Any other commissioner questions or comments? Is there anyone in the audience that would like to speak to this?

Good evening, commission. How are you? Uh, thank you for letting me speak.

Tim Frankenberg, Fire Chief, Washington, Missouri. Uh, first kudos to KJU in Houston. Uh, I I I always love connectivity and so the way that Kurt does this without using culde-sacs, I I truly applaud you. Thank you, Kurt. Um, and I truly mean that. Um, know this area very well because I've been living in that corner there uh a lot with the new fire station being built uh that's up there on the corner. Um, a couple concerns. Uh, one just on a plat review, um, to echo what Ken said is some dimensions would be nice. I have some concerns with turning radiuses and some of that. Uh, and just looking at it from a from a big picture perspective. In addition, I would offer the builder and the developer. Uh, we have offered concessions in the past uh, through the code on plan unit developments. Uh the most recent was one not too far from here where we had them sprinkle the entire complex uh with residential fire sprinklers following NFPA 13D under the plumbing code um which basically gets all of the Washington has a u very I don't want to say complex but a very thorough commercial sprinkler requirement and we do that very purposefully for for the way we operate. When we get into the residential side, we really lighten things up to make it realistic. Um, those are not property protection systems. They are there for life safety. Um, and in some of this, uh, we had a fire last night with a report of a person trapped over here on Third Street. Um, with the way fire growth is today, um, no offense to Houston, but just the way homes are constructed today, the materials, the trade-offs, etc. the the code today is built on the assumption of sprinklers are in homes. The 2009 codes changed and from there on the codes are all based on the fire protection is in these

buildings. So all the tradeoffs that are built in on the separation walls etc. Um, we have worked with developers in the past and we would be more than uh willing to work with uh Houston and KJU to do what we can to encourage uh the installation of residential fire sprinklers uh for the long term of these properties and the life safety of the folks that live in those properties. Uh but again, kudos to the the design. I think it's a it's an excellent way to do it. Kirk lived up to exactly what he said when we were in front of a whole lot of of uh anxious Stone Crest residents um with the way the street was put in with the way the access is done. So Kurt has has lived up with what he said he's going to do. Um so so kudos to them. Uh I can echo the the walkability of that area. We're actually adding a sidewalk to the east of Aspen Valley, the west of our property to the park. Um, I cannot believe the amount of people that utilize Phoenix Park Drive presently. It is, if you want, it's insane. Um, I've seen folks that I know from Lake Washington walking past there and ask them, "Are you lost?" U, but it's just part of their their walk of what they use for the for the connectivity of the system. So, what you're doing is working. Um, I I think this is a great concept. I would echo some of the comments that were made up here and the concerns. Uh, but I definitely think there's there's ways we can work through all of this. Um, and again, I'm willing to work from the fire codes perspective as to what we can do to encourage them as much as possible.

Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone else in the audience that would like to speak to this? So, we really don't No, this is just kind of to uh yeah, discussion and then accept it into the minutes. Uh just just one quick thing. Uh my only recommendation as um staff would be these four parking spaces right here um to re to uh move them to the south side so the sidewalk can be um straight here and you can was I right about the the mailboxes. Are are you planning to have them right right there?

That's the main purpose that they pull in they pull in get their mail and they go home and we cannot put them on the south side because those are driveways. Mhm.

Sure. Yeah. I I I guess my recommendation, and if this is not possible, that's okay. This is kind of a minor thing, would be to uh reorient um these uh front-loaded town homes, uh push them up to the side and kind of utilize some of the space right here. If that's obviously not possible, that's okay. Uh but, you know, move these parking spaces to the south of the road. Um so that way, um when the mail guy is delivering mail, you know, he's not blocked by parked cars. uh presumably and uh so pedestrians don't have to do this awkward jut up to the north but that would be my only comment. So any other comments? Okay, you have what our thoughts were. So

okay, we'll do the next step. Yep. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you guys. And thank you developer and Kirk for putting this together. Next item on the agenda is the uh code change for RTC code change recommendation. Yes, correct. So um this is something we've been talking about for a while, but uh Oh, did you have something, Mark? No, no, go ahead.

Okay. Um, yeah, this is something we've been talking about for a while, but I've finally got something uh in front of you and uh hope to get a recommendation to uh council to uh look at this and uh get this approved so we uh don't have to deal with uh you know a reszoning and a variance every time that someone wants to get rid of a condo association. So um just going through some of the changes to the R2 um zoning district to make that a reality. Um, we've removed the uh side uh yard setbacks um and uh shrank the lot sizes for single family and two family dwellings. Um so you can do a uh single family home on 3,000 a 3,000t lot and a uh duplex on a 6,000 ft lot. Um with that we've also reduced the uh minimum width of a lot to uh 30 ft. And uh in the use table, we've made attached single family homes a permitted use in uh the R2 uh district. um when the last time we talked about this um I talked this over with uh Blake who's here tonight um about um fire protection and uh if there's any difference in the number of units um and there is there is not um the fire protection does have to be consistent amongst so it has to be the same throughout the number of attached town homes whether that be you know two town homes or 20 town homes the fire separation has to be uh the same there. Um, and yeah, I uh I guess that's that that's it. If you have any questions or any comments on this, I'm more than happy to talk about them. So,

so Erin, there's still an R2 overlay district, correct? Yeah, this is not removing the R2 overlay district. It's just but but previously we had different uh single f single family or uh lot sizes minimum lot sizes for the R2 overlay and the rest of the R2 district. Uh I'm proposing removing that separate uh you know uh lot size for the R2 overlay and just having one R2. Uh so 3 single family unit and correct 6,000 for two.

Correct. Yeah. That would take care of most of the cumbersome stuff. I was going to say very practical, very efficient way of just us not having to worry about too many more variances, right, unnecessarily. Well, the concern in the past, I think, and the reason was just I, you know, way back when we created the district to allow for a sideyard or a zero sideyard on one side,

uh, for them to go ahead and go through and and dissolve the condo was was just worried about the minimum lot size. They were worried that people would come in with R2 zoning and come in now and take advantage of, you know, a lot a lot smaller than that. And that was that was the concern. I don't know that we have that concern as much anymore. Um, so

because if someone were to come in and annex farmland and want to do, you know, like I I I calculated this out if if someone were to come in and, you know, annex farmland request R2 zoning with our current maximum block length of 1,000 ft. You could do 33 attached town homes in a row next to each other. But that is a theoretical maximum that would probably not happen, you know. Um but and nowhere in town could you do that with these changes that I'm proposing. So um there was also Yeah. So I think it cleans the process of I don't hate it. I like it.

Yeah. Just for the record, we don't the city doesn't get involved with dissolving condo associations. This is just the tool for them to help them go ahead and do that because that's completely up to that's that's not the city's part and and and in doing that. That's ours is just do we have a zoning district that fits the need of what some of these are and not not making them jump through several hurdles and two different boards. Well, I think if we would have had this in place when Apple Blossom was being proposed, right, that would have that would not have been built the way it's built. Correct. the way I see it. Yeah.

So, we need a recommendation. Is that what you're Yep. Recommendation to send it to council. I would entertain. Motion to recommend to send to council. Second. Motion made and seconded that the commission recommend changes to the R2 R1C code. All those in favor? I opposed. Nice. Anything else that came up that we need to talk about? Um, don't think so. Good. I got a question for Aaron. So, out there, West Main and and uh West Link Industrial Drive, that RV park.

Yeah. Is going forward. So, they're going with the concrete. Yes. Yes. Okay. Whatever Whatever we That was the I think that was it, right? We did not approve the chip and seal and everything else that they wanted, but I no I had never really heard it was just out past that way and it's like they're excavating. So, um yeah, I when they came back I think to discuss something less than what they had first proposed um it just kind of died I think right here at PNZ. I don't even know that council ever even had it. Well, that was just it. It was like, you know, it just seemed like the whole thing kind Gina's in the no. She said concrete's being poured tomorrow. So, praying.

Well, I I just like you said, I was just out past there and it's like here they've got everything all laid out and stuff and it's like I was just curious because we really hadn't heard anything as a follow-up past that one and stuff. So, I was council had given two or three extensions and I think uh so okay because it was a good plan if they could get it done. Yeah. Just That sounded like they weren't going to because the concrete was going to be expensive. That was a that was a deal killer. Yeah. So, but good for them. So, agreed. Any other comments or questions? If not, I have to entertain one last motion. Motion to adjurnn. Second. Motion made and seconded to adjourn at 8:20. All those in favor signify by saying I.

I. I. Opposed. Nice. Have it. Thank you folks. A good word. Okay. makes our next breakfast. You're going to be my day when I move. I'm not there yet. When are you moving? Uh well, I don't know. They're they The trusses were delivered yesterday or March 5th. What is this? Monday. Anyway, they started on the roof on a slab. Handover place. hand over the last Thursday. I can do that.

I didn't know you had someone on Thursday morning. That's where I wanted. We were at a meeting and I said I should go up and and you're going to figure out where the location but but it is scary. Thank you. Sometimes they take and I'm not that person but at the same time I'm really excited and it's really going to be great. So if you're in the neighborhood drive by sometime

well that's kind of like That's why I ask I know sometimes 2,000 or more square foot house in a big yard. Yeah, I I I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. It's just that I just that 12oot alley I kept thinking and I know those people were so upset. What? What do you mean? you know, and and if we can avoid that and if and if they're going to step up, the key is are they going to is he going to stay concerned with the HOA and be on their face?

We got we have an HOA in Windy Hills and that's the biggest joke in the world. They only ask for money when they when they run out of it to cut the grass in the entryway or a tree falls down, right? And it's it's frustrating. I mean, I get what they're I'm so happy. That way I can vote for you. Welcome. Welcome to the hoping it's late spring. That's awesome.

And I want you to know that right now we're living in ward one actually on Wishwood. I've got a friend whose mother had watching approached me about change registration because I've got your life because I don't think we'll be in It's okay. I don't have to do it that often. You know, that's your pen, though. You want this? You have a granddaughter who plays basketball for the Jays. Got one plays for Georgia. CJ's daughter.

CJ's daughter plays in Georgia. I thought she played Washington. I'm sorry. Yeah, they uh they had a game this afternoon at 4:30.