Agriculture, Planning, Tourism & Community Development - Regular Meeting

As far as the next issue, you want to defer and have myself, maybe the chairman sit down with the administrator and figure this out? Or how does this committee want to proceed? I'm lost here. I don't know what we're figuring out. I don't either.

Let's back up for a second. The interim treasurer has been opposed. Moving forward. The backfill of the deputy is moving forward, correct? Yes.

Then we need to discuss the job duties.

Well, we don't necessarily because although a name has been forwarded, the deputy treasurer or the interim treasurer between now and the time of her appointment could change her mind.

So it's really not an issue until that appointment is made. So there is. No. Okay. Very good. Did you have anything else?

Yes. The discrimination harassment policy that has come back to the committee. I've brought it once. Danielle brought it once. My recommendation, if you're interested, is to have outside counsel look at the policy. Dan, what is the name of the company?

On Sean and King, who just did investigation for some area was mentioned. They do have experience not only in harassment policy, but I believe workplace violence policy. That was the other one we were going to potentially look at.

Yes. And that would be my recommendation. If the committee chose to go through that council to get recommendations for policy, because we also work with a labor attorney and they have an H.R. specialist as well on staff, but I think this company is a little more versed on that policy. So if you'd like, I can go forward and get their recommendations.

My question is, we're going to ask them to give us a policy. We're not going to hand them...

Right.

I don't want that to work. This one thing is what we want.

My understanding is the labor law has model policies.

There are model policies.

They'll probably compare ours with that. There's things we don't need. There might be some extraneous things that we have that we don't need.

Do you have any idea how much this would cost? I hope. I hope.

I think on how the next week goes. I know the first bill I got, the investigation was about $13,000. I don't know how much of the $20,000 I actually requested. It would definitely hopefully be less than that. I don't know if I'd have enough left over to cover that, but I can inquire.

Okay. You want to move it to finance? So we'll say and face the motion. Sue and Lance, second.

discussion discussion yes and then you're going to put what it's gone out for the investigation well as i said i assuming everything wraps up one way or the other by this time next week excuse me um if we have you know i moved 20 000 to cover the expense of that investigation if i have something left i'll see if i can you know we'd have to sign a new retainer agreement for that but i'll see whatever i have left over trying to put towards helping us drive the policy.

Just thinking.

I mean, it's a separate thing. It's a separate thing, so it'd be a separate retainer agreement. You know, and instead of the board has authorized me to use this part of my outside council budget, I'll see what I have left after it'll leak. Let it spill.

Is there any other discussion? All those in favor of moving to finance? Aye. Opposed? Motion carries. Moving to five minutes. Any more? I do believe this here. So I'm just here for informational purposes only.

I'm not out there to begin. So exemptions. There was a few legislations that were passed for changing of exemptions or adding exemptions. I've had a couple of assessors come to me already interested in some of these exemptions. So I'm just going to give you kind of just the overview of what they are. So when they do come to you, your assessor is coming to you next month, I think. that if you have any questions regarding any of them, please come and see me. Please have a conversation with me. I can give you what those changes are going to do to your specific towns if you guys decide to adopt them. So one of the big ones is the senior exemption. So I'll just give a brief thing on the senior exemption. So the senior exemption right now, the state allows $50,000 and up to 50% off. for income and the exemption. The state now raised that up to 65%. So seniors can get 65% off their taxes based off of their income. However, the state program that we're currently using, which is the RPS, can't handle that addition from 50% up to 65%. They are doing a new program and they kind of put the old program on the back burner So if your municipalities adopt anything over 50%, all of those are going to be hand calculated and hand entered into the system. So there's really no checks and balances on our end until the state gets the program updated and up to par. So just remember that it's not going to be something easy for your assessors, for the bigger towns. You know, Kingsbury has a bunch of them, Fort Edward, Grahamville. So the smaller towns, it can be done. Just please watch what it does to your overall assessments and how things shift with your assessments.

Where are they now, Miranda? Like a 30% to 40% pretty much?

So everyone is at 50%, but it's basically the income is where you got to fluctuate before. So right now the state allows up to 50,000. The county's at 36.4. And then everybody else is kind of falling below that. So if you guys want to look at where you're at within your town, so that's one option to do. What's in legislation now is the state is moving the value from 50,000 up to 75,000. So if you make less than 75,000. you can get these exemptions. So keep that in mind as well. If you're moving the percentage up, what that's going to do to the rest of your tax base if you're going to also move the income limits up. So that's the first one. The second one that is coming forward is the exemption for widows and widowers of police officers killed in the line of duty. So That's one that there's a couple of assessors that are interested in. So if I was you guys, come to me for any information if you want it. But a lot of the legislation is right online and easy to read if you guys want to do that too.

There's like a summary fact sheet, you know, kind of laying it all out.

I can do that for you. Another one that came forward is the 100% service-connected disability. So that is veterans who are 100% disabled will get 100% off of their taxes. That one we have to be careful with just because the way the legislation is written, it kind of goes against the laws because exemptions aren't supposed to include ad valorem and special assessments and all of those, but that does with the 100% disability.

Then the last one is... Yes.

So I put together in the packet so I can hand out to you guys. These are just like where we're at in the exemptions and where your towns are at and all the listed ones. Here, I'll give you. No, you're okay. I was going to get to it, but we'll go there now.

My money was on Bryant as well.

So one of the assessors threw together what it's going to potentially look like, which is the last page in the packet that I handed out to you guys. So it breaks it down as to like how many a hundred percent disabled veterans we already have exemptions for. per town and what the total assessed value is for those properties that will become 100% tax exempt. So Argyle has 20, Fort Edward has 16, Greenwich has 28, Kingsbury is 34, but the overall number is $48 million. We're looking at the assessed value for this. So it's stuff that you have to kind of look at on a town to town basis on what your what your town can handle, if your town can handle anything. So what I put in here is also where you guys are at in the alt that the Cold War, because some of you guys aren't in there. Some of the school districts aren't offering the exemption. So if you guys can't do, you know, the big one that just came out, there's other ways that you guys can help them out by moving some of your other exemptions. So the ones that are really going to get hit hard the most are the ones that have These big numbers and what we're still trying to figure out is if the assessed value is basically put at zero or the taxable value is put at zero. What's going to happen with all the star funding? So if there's no that's like one of the exemptions that we get from the state and we're still trying to work out on the director's level how that's going to affect us. It's because at that point, there's nothing, if the exemption, the veterans exemption is covering the entire thing, there's going to be no star money coming in on those properties as well. So we're just trying to work out how that's going to affect things too.

So this, just so we're all aware, these numbers are only the numbers that they were at 100%. You've still got charges that might have 50% right now. It's not the total.

And all, so... Not everybody that's 100% exempt is actually going to qualify for this, but then there's other people that aren't 100% exempt that will qualify for this. So these are just kind of basic numbers is what we can pull right now. Until we actually roll this out and see what comes out of the woodwork we don't have already, we really have no idea how this is going to affect the tax base except for what we have so far.

Dana? when Luther State allows you to do this. We're not obligated to do that.

This is a local option. So a few assessors have already approached me. So I'm just letting you guys know that it is coming to some of your board meetings over the next couple of months, just to give you guys some time to look into things, as well as this stuff is going to come before the county in the next couple of months, too, because this is a county option.

Something else that I saw coming before Warren County, they just than an exemption for volunteer firefighters.

So that's been out for a few years already. So I actually don't think many of you guys are opted in, but a couple of you are opted into there. That took a little bit to work out as well because what they require and what the assessors actually need within the legislation, it kind of took some working to do on the local level. But you see... With that one, they have to kind of pick between the exemption and the money that they get back.

Okay, so this is the same one that's in.

So this is completely different. Which one are you talking about?

The Warren County. It's the same one that's been out for a while. Yes. Okay. Yep. I thought it was something new.

Yep. So we haven't really seen any of these go forward yet. Albany County was talking about doing the 100%. Veterans exemption. I just think that we need to get a little more information collected for you guys before you guys start making those decisions. But this stuff needs to be passed sooner rather than later if you guys are going to do it. So the assessors have time to actually send out the exemption. To do it for this application. Yep. Yeah.

Dave, on the volunteer fire departments or fire exemptions, there's a state exemption, there's a local exemption. At one time, they couldn't take both. Can they take both?

Not last I knew, no.

They had to choose one. One of my fire department members asked the questions they had heard somewhere. They could take both now. There's just one clarification.

I can look into it for you. I have not heard that. But from what I heard, they don't check, too. So some people could be getting it when they shouldn't be getting both of them. But I can look into that for you. That would be helpful. And then the last one is, yes.

100% veterans exemption. However, there were going to be strings attached to that, I think, at one time.

Yes. Those are no longer there.

They're not there, or they haven't written it into the law.

They've changed it. So when they first introduced this, it was very specific that not many people were going to qualify for the exemption. Over the past year, it's been expanded into 100% disabled vets or permanently and totally disabled. There's two different ways that they put disabled veterans through from what I'm learning. I'm learning a lot through this. at first you needed like a traumatic brain injury and a couple other things as well as being 100% disabled. Now those are not really there anymore. It's more straightforward that a lot more people are going to qualify for it.

That's regardless of the prop, that 100%.

So when you see that there's no cap, you can put a cap in.

But as it stands, I thought I saw like It was like $180,000 or something.

For which one? As far as we've dug into it, there is no cap on it.

And the number, the total, that's the value of the homes?

The assessed value of the homes. But it's the total, like for Argyle, I think there's 20, all 20 of the assessed values equal the $4 million. Then that would be what would be tax exempt, and that money would be trickling to the other taxpayers. It doesn't just go away, it just gets put off on everybody else.

So... To find them out, the average house in Hebron for

So I just wanted to come before you guys, let you know what was passed because a lot of this has been in talk for, you know, a year or so. So I just want to let you guys know where we're at and to come to me if you guys want town by town, more specifics, because the program can't support up to the 65% senior exemption. We have to hand calculate everything. So give me at least a week before your board meetings if you want something so we can do it.

Miranda, on the $50,000 cap this year, you mentioned something about it going to $75,000. The state's going to raise the limit up to $75,000.

That would be possibly next year? Next year or the following. As far as I know, it hasn't been passed, but it was just thrown out in our director's

So we're only passing the town level law when we decide to do this. So that would just be the town taxes. And then at the county level, we have to decide whether or not we're going to do that.

So whenever you guys want me to bring that back sooner rather than later, maybe September. I just want to get through school bills in August. And then if you guys want me to come back to the government ops meeting in September, we can talk about those at that point as well.

And where we're at with the budget here and where we can.

It's October 1st of 2026, but it takes effect as of the taxable status date of the following year. So it'd be March 1st of 2027, but the assessors need all of the exemptions, the paperwork back by that date as well. So it will go live on the 27th of July.

So does September give us enough time to get the law passed?

Yes. If you want me to bring it earlier, I can. I can bring it next month if you would like.

It's October 1st. It has to be in place on October 1st, right?

It has to be in place before the taxable status date, which is March 1st, 2027. The legislation just goes into effect as of October 1st, 2026. but we don't have to have everything.

I'll have to check. I think in the past, we've generally, Jeremy, you can go there. I'm sure I can correct me if I'm wrong. I think we've usually done those being in the year. Okay, so you weren't. Okay.

We can do it earlier if you want. So you want me to come back and do this?

September. Say that again? September.

You want me to come back? Yeah.

Yeah.

Can you be able to show us the shift? Because the shift is going to be incredible the more we do.

For which one?

Any of them. 100%.

I can do my best.

It's 48 million.

It's going to swell up. It's going to be hard to see where all this is going to go because the seniors too. Here's the issue with raising the senior exemption income is we have no idea who qualifies over that threshold of 36.4%. So there's no way for us to generate a potential. And then moving the exemption percentage from 50% to 65%, we also – Don't know if you move both of those, what's going to happen. So my recommendation would be to move one or the other. It's a crapshoot, basically. And then see how it shakes out and then go from there. But we are trying to put numbers together as potentials for the senior extension.

Oh, we won't know until the 28th, actually.

Yes. But I can put potentials of even moving the people from 50% up to 65. What's that? What that's going to do to the county, too.

Yeah.

Because even if we leave the income... Where it is at the county and every municipality, you're still going to have a shift moving from 50% to 65%. And we're going to be able to get that relatively close as a baby to where it's going to go. But to get exact numbers, we're going to do our best. And all the counties are kind of working together to figure out the best way to do it as well. Any other questions? Thank you for doing this. On our website, too, the last one, except for this is just kind of just only assessed values. That's not posted on the website, but it was just an information for you guys.

Thank you in advance for everything we're going to ask you.

Oh, absolutely. It's a difficult start.

We don't even know who I am.

Yeah, so at least I just wanted to give you guys a little heads up before the assessors start coming to you. All right.

Thank you. Is there anything else before the committee?

I would like to propose an amendment to Section 5 of our oil policy. The reason, therefore, is pretty simple. It comes under the fee section. There's currently a person out there who's been making multiple requests of the code enforcement officer. And currently his FOIL reproduction fees, if he comes to pick up the records, are in excess of $200. However, the FOIL statute does not have a time limit as to how long after hold those vectors before they are deemed abandoned. left to local policy, and our current local policy does not have a cap, shall we say. So what I am proposing is an additional paragraph that says, once the requester has been notifying that the copying and reduction fees are due and owing, payment is not remitted, within 30 days of notification, the FOIA request will be deemed abandoned, and a new request for such records must be submitted. I will say that I put 30 days. Some of the research I've done has said anything between 30 and 60 can be reasonable. I just put 30 out there for a number.

I guess this is so we can get discussion. I motion this be approved. So I've got to build a discussion. Pass it, Vice Chair.

Okay.

You're a senior member of the board.

So my question is, because I can see somebody go through all this work, and then you say, OK, they should stay with it for 30 days. We put a limit on for requests for such records must be resubmitted within seven days from that or five.

Otherwise, you know what's going to happen?

You're going to print all that stuff. They're not going to pay.

Well, I will say this. Our FOIA policy does say in this one, I initially had recommended to the code enforcement officer that you make the copies first, even though our policy says we don't have to until it's paid. Because given this individual, what I didn't want to have happen was the person comes, pays the fees, walks over the receipt, say, why aren't my records ready? And then give the department employees a whole bunch of grief while they're trying to comply with the press. So far, that doesn't seem to be working. So we're trying it this way. The unfortunate problem with FOIL is unless a person appeals, first of all, gets denied, then appeals to the appeals officer who is currently the chairman, they deny it, and then they try to file an Article 78. That's about the only way we can put any limitation on the request, where there'll be kind of a court order saying, you know, clearly you've abused the process. you have to do things a different way. Because as you know, FOIL is, there's sort of a presumption everything is seeable and they assume we're trying to hide something.

I think that's really important to stress is that we're not trying to deter the FOIL process.

We're not trying to deter the process, but by the same token, you know, I know at this point the code enforcement officer and this particular individual has put together a bunch of requests, you know, and I've put out there with the help of the treasurer saying, here's the process. Bring the money to the treasurer's office. Get it received. Bring the receipt to code enforcement. Please give us advance notice so we can have this stuff ready for you when you come in. So I said, I think at this point, this way, we're not sitting here. Then 10 months down the road, it's just, oh, I have my money. We want to say, look, you got to come in and get it within a certain period of time. otherwise it's deemed abandoned and you got to start the process. So hopefully this will streamline, you know, people really want it.

They'll act on it. Can you clarify again? So the payment fees are due in advance. This says payments are due.

Well, what I was, in other words, the way we do it, the way it's been done thus far is The request is made.

Yeah.

I ask the department head, you know, if they've asked for paper copies, let me know what the total cost is going to be. There's a 25 cent per page limit if it's 9 by 13 or less. If, in this case, code enforcement has to go to real property and spend 12 bucks to get a reproduction, we can say, you know, we can add the actual cost of production to that. I then send a letter saying, we received your FOIA request. We have records responsive to your request. The reproduction costs are, is going to be this amount. You know, please bring, permit this amount to the treasurer, get the receipt, bring it to, bring it to whatever department you're looking for. Records will be provided at that time. So the fee does have to pay, be paid in advance. And I do say that, no matter if you want to adjust that to say, I think it says in the policy already they're due in advance. I'm just trying to get kind of a limitation as to how long people have to hold the document, the department has to hold the documents until, because the VAPs haven't been paid before they can start over.

But they seem to contradict the two statements. All right. Maybe I'm not. Well, maybe I'm misunderstanding, so I want to make sure. We're trying it. Section 5, this page. Payment of fees must be made before copies are made to providers.

Correct. I flip it over.

It said, what requests will be abandoned new requests? Once a requester has been notified that copying or reproduction fees are due in OIC, their payment is not permitted in 30 days. So why would we copy anything?

Well, as I said, I had initially advised this one particular department, have it ready. So that if this person, you know, paid the fee, walked in with the receipt, then the employees aren't getting a ton of grief as they're trying to comply with the request. I initially said, why don't we do an advance so if he pays, here's your money, here's your records, go on your merry way. I have since changed my advice to at least this particular department. But what I'm basically trying to do with this is if there are fees that are owed, and they aren't paid within 30 days, the request is deemed abandoned. That's the intent of this. If you want to modify it to make it consistent, I'm perfectly okay with that. I'm just trying to put a limitation so that some degree we aren't holding onto things for 10 months or longer.

Can we put a thing in there that just says, is permitted, then your records will be provided within seven business days or something along those lines. And then we're not making copies. Right.

As I said, the fee says copies don't have to be made until the payment is made. I'd say with this one particular individual trying to make life a little easier for his department, dealing with him, why don't we make the copies so we know how much it is, and then he pays, you hand it to him, it's off. I've since made my advice more consistent with a policy. What I'm trying to do here is not have a department head have to hold on to records for three months, four months. Somebody comes in six months down the road and says, well, I made this request. You told me this. What are my records? At this point, why should we hold on to something if someone's not going to end up paying a fee?

My thought is it says pay for it up front, right? And then we give it. amount of time that gives us to make the copies after the payment received so you know whatever timeline is decided then we're not making copies and and uh you know wasted well i think at this point this is this is not saying the copies are going to be made before the payment is due and i apologize if i put any confusion that but if you want uh to

and additional line once payment is remitted. Copies will be provided with them.

You have to make your copies so you don't have to go to the jar.

Yeah. So I think, Dan, that the amendment you got to go along with what Scott said is the payment's made up front. your copies will be provided within so many days. And then, you know, that way they pay, and then they don't expect them right that minute. They're going to get okay. They'll be ready in 10 days or whatever.

Won't they have to be ready, though, before you know how much money to charge?

Yeah. It kind of depends. I mean, you can, you know, if you have paper copies, you can kind of look and start going, okay. You know, if it's simple, eight by 11, one of these sheets of paper, you can count multiply it times order. And that's what you get. But as I said, some of the others, there might be, you have to have a map reproduce. That's that might be say $12. You can charge the actual reproduction. So depending on what the record is, you might be able to get a pretty good estimate. Um, and that's what we've been to a certain degree trying to do, uh, And I think we're both kind of getting to the same place. I guess what I'm saying is, one is saying, once you make a payment, correct, the copies will be made within seven days. But what I'm, what this is, I guess, trying to do, and I have no problem adding your language, as if that's the board's wish, is to say, look, once I tell you what it is, you've got 30 days to come in and make the payment. Otherwise, your record of blame is being expanded. So...

No, Sue's. I would also like to see, to stop the people going in the office to make this request. Could you put an add-on to the fee, a certified return request receipt, and send the documentation to the person that did the FOIA request?

No, no, no.

I want that added to the 25-bill. 25 cents.

No, I don't think we're allowed to charge that. We're only allowed to charge the copying fees.

We're not allowed to?

We're allowed to do copying fees and reproduction fees.

That you can deter somebody that can't afford it. That would be cheaper than getting the gas to come to them. True.

Do you know when that was initiated?

The 25 cent charge?

That was when they passed the... 1974.

What would that cost be to that per page? 25 cents?

I'd like to be able to charge, I think, what the court stenographers charge per page, because that's rather hefty, but we're limited by the law as it stands.

52 years later, it's still 25 cents. It does not keep pace with inflation.

So I guess my question was, if we charge 25 cents a page, do we feel silent?

I'm just curious. That could pop up if somebody asked a question. I think we do have to worry about making it look like we're trying to hold back on the FOIA. We don't want that.

What this is saying, though, is if you're truly making the request, you've got to pick the records up within a certain public hearing to change the FOIA. No, I mean, this is an internal policy. As I said, the FOIA law says you can, you know, here's the general outlines as far as You know, if you want to put a restriction on when the record has to be picked up by that, that's a local matter of local concern for life.

You got to change it by resolution.

Right. So we got to change. That'd be great. All right. So I'd say for some businesses, probably.

as you could have one of those stints where it's, you know, Christmas or New Year's. I guess they read most of them.

Do we have a motion on the floor with the second?

Yeah.

All those in favor of moving this? All right. We're changing this to... All right, so here's where I'm going to go.

Once the requester has been notified that copying and production fees are due and owing, if payment is not remitted within 30 days of notification, FOIA requests will be deemed abandoned and a new request for such records must be submitted. Once payment is remitted, copies will be provided within seven business days.

Thank you. If they ask to begin within 60 days, can we make them pay the fee they didn't pay to begin with in order to re-enter?

Straight back from the record, please.

If you didn't do it, you're exposed.

Well, I mean, the fee's not going to change. They didn't pay it the first time. We can't say you have to pay for the records you didn't get. The records were given to you, and we're only giving them a few cents. Now we can't do that.

You're all set to damage.

I am. Thank you.

OK. Is there anything else come before the committee? We did. We did. And adjourned. We voted. Thank you. Yeah, we did. On the call, I suppose