City Council - Regular Meeting

It's not even there's no way up this Okay, welcome everybody. We're going to go ahead and come back to order with a roll call from our city clerk, Kathy Valdez.

The record shall reflect that all members are present. Our city uh attorney, Walter Chung, will bring us out of close session. The city council took no reportable action in close session this afternoon. And council member Melendez is going to lead us in the pledge of allegiance this evening. Please rise. Ready, begin. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all

and our city clerk Kathy Valdez has some procedural items to cover.

Thank you mayor. In accordance with the Brown Act, I'd like to announce that as a result of convening simultaneous meetings, the members of the Buena Sanitation District will receive compensation of $147 and.75 cents for the district meeting pursuant to Buena Sanitation District Ordinance 2006-1. I would like to remind everyone the Vista Municipal Code requires members of the public to observe order and decorum at the meeting and to conduct themselves in a courteous manner. The ordinance was adopted to allow for public input without and to facilitate city business without disruption of the meeting. Applause is appropriate for items listed under the presentation portion of the agenda only. Student wish students wishing to receive credit for attain this evening's meeting must stay for a minimum of 1 hour. How we ask that you stay for the completion of item rather than leaving in the middle of a discussion. When you're ready to leave, you may ask one of the um staff members at the back of the room to sign your paper. Thank you.

Thank you. to speak on an item on tonight's agenda. Please fill out a speaker slip with the number of the item you'd like to speak on and give it to the clerk, secretary, staff here at the das. Speaker slips are available on the table just outside the council chambers. For members of the public participating through Zoom, you may use your uh raise your hand feature to indicate that you'd like to speak or press star 9 on your phone. We'll announce when to raise your hand to indicate you'd like to make a comment on the specific item being discussed. Speakers will each have three minutes to address the city council. And we'll go to our city manager, John Connley, for the approval of tonight's agenda. Thank you, mayor. There are no changes to this evening's agenda.

Okay. And we have three presentations this evening. So, I'd like to invite my fellow council members to join me at the podium for the presentations. All right, our first proclamation is one declaring April 2026 as ArabAmerican Heritage Month in the city of Vista. Accepting the proclamation this evening, we have Abdullah Second from the Tri City Islamic Center. Is

Oh, he's still in traffic. Okay. Well, any other representatives that we have from the Actually, you know what? Why don't we if he's going to join us shortly, we'll just move this to the third and then uh yeah, and then maybe he'll have a chance to join us.

Okay. Uh we have a proclamation declaring May 2nd through the 3rd as Vista Garden Club Days in the city of Vista. Vista Garden Club President Tom McCarter and members of the club are here to receive the proclamation. Come on down. Thank you for being here. Yeah. If you want to come up here, I'll have you say hello to the council if you like and we'll give you this proclamation to show off. Okay. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Congratulations. Yes.

Oh, yes. Please. All the members of the garden club, if you'd like to join us, please. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Hello. Welcome. Good to see you. How are you?

Thanks for being here. Hi there. Hello. How are you? Hi. How are you? Thanks for being here. Hi there. How are you? Are you coming tonight?

All right.

Our proclamation for the Vista Garden Club 90th anniversary. Whereas the Vista Garden Club was founded in 1936 by dedicated community members united by a shared passion for gardening, civic beauty, and environmental stewardship. And whereas for 90 years, the Vista Garden Club has enriched the community through the promotion of horiculture, floral design, conservation, and education, the members of the Vista Garden Club have generously contributed their time, talents, and leadership to beautifification projects, community events, scholarships, and educational programs that enhance the quality of life for residents of all ages. The Vista Garden Club has fostered a spirit of friendship, volunteerism, and lifelong learning while honoring cherished traditions and embracing innovative approaches to sustainable gardening and environmental awareness. The club's 90th anniversary coincides with its annual flower show and plant sale themed garden magic, a beloved community tradition that showcases the creativity, expertise, and dedication of its members and invites the public to celebrate gardening, education, and environmental stewardship. Now therefore, be it proclaimed by me as mayor and the city council that Saturday, May 2nd, 2026 and Sunday, May 3rd, 2026 are Vista Garden Club Days in the city of Vista. And we encourage all residents and surrounding communities to attend and enjoy the annual flower show and plant sale. And we further proclaim that the Vista Garden Club is hereby commended on the occasion of its 90th anniversary for outstanding service and lasting contributions to the beauty, education, and environmental well-being of our Vista community.

Thank you for being here tonight. Thank you, Mayor.

Yeah. Very good. Come on out this way. Three, two, one. Happy everybody. All right. Next, we have a proclamation declaring May 3rd through the 9th as

Small Business Week in the city of Vista. Our Vista Chamber of Commerce CEO, Rachel Beld, is here to accept the proclamation.

Thank you. Excellent. Thank you.

All right. Our proclamation reads, "Small Business Week in the city of Vista, May 3rd through May 9th, 2026. Whereas the city of Vista acknowledges and appreciates the essential contributions of local small businesses to the strength of our economy and the vitality of our community. For more than 60 years, the US Small Business Administration has celebrated National Small Business Week, recognizing the critical contributions of America's entrepreneurs and small business owners, honoring their hard work, ingenuity, and dedication. National Small Business Week provides an opportunity to celebrate and recognize the outstanding contributions made by small businesses and their owners, employees, and families while raising awareness of the importance of supporting them. According to the US Small Business Administration, there are more than 36.2 2 million small businesses in the United States, representing 99.9% of all businesses, employing 62.3% 62.3 million people, 45.9% of the private sector workforce, and contributing significantly to the nation's economy. Whereas small businesses play a vital role in strengthening local economies by creating jobs, fostering innovation, and enhancer enhancing the unique character of our community, the city of Vista is committed to supporting local businesses that generate economic growth, create opportunities, and contribute to a thriving and resilient community. The city of Vista encourages residents, visitors, and stakeholders to support our local small businesses by shopping locally, promoting their services, and participating in community efforts that celebrate and uplift Vista's small business community. Now, therefore, it be it resolved by myself as mayor and the city council that the city of Vista does hereby proclaim the week of May 3rd through May 9th, 2026 as Small Business Week in the city of Vista. All right. And I'll I'll just say as a small business owner myself uh that we appreciate the recognition and we appreciate you being here. Rachel, would you like to say a

few words about Small Business Week?

I would if that's okay. You know, I love to get the mic so careful. Uh so I just want to say thank you, Mayor Franklin and members of the city council for this recognition for small businesses and for your continued support of our small business community. As mentioned, small businesses represent 99.9% of all businesses. And nationally, they employ more than half of our workforce. But here in Vista, that impact goes far beyond numbers. They're the backbone of our local economy and the heart of our community. You can see that impact in action at events like the Vista Strawberry Festival May 24th, 2026, uh, which will feature nearly 550 vendors, all local small businesses, some of them just getting started. And our small businesses don't just drive our economy, they give back. This summer, nearly 50 of our local businesses will host 115 interns from our velocity internship program. And thanks to the generosity of many of our local businesses, this Friday the chamber will award $48,000 in scholarships to 37 local youth. On behalf of the Vista Chamber, yeah, that's worth clapping. And that that recognition isn't for the chamber, it's for our small businesses that are supporting these efforts. But on behalf of the Vista Chamber and our incredible business community, I am honored to accept this proclamation and to celebrate Small Business Week. We are grateful for your partnership as we continue to support and grow Vista small businesses. Let's make every week Small Business Week. Let's go. Thank you so much. Take a picture with us.

Thank you. Amen. Okay. Did we find Abdullah? Not not yet. Okay. All right. Well, uh, he'll be here just in time to get a picture then. Okay. Very good. Well, would you like to come up and accept on behalf? Welcome.

How are you? Hello.

Okay. Our proclamation reads, "Whereas the month of April is recognized as ArabAmerican Heritage Month, celebrating the rich heritage, culture, and contributions of Arab Americans. Whereas Arab Americans are a diverse and vibrant community with roots in the Middle East and North Africa, representing a wide range of cultural, religious, and linguistic identities. Arab Americans have been an integral part of the United States since the late 19th century, contributing to the nation's growth and prosperity through service in the military, public sector, education, business, healthcare, science, and the arts. Arab Americans have played an important role in advancing civil rights, public service, community well-being, strengthening the social and cultural fabric of our nation. We're proud here in Vista to have our own Congressman Daryl Isa, who represented us for very many years, who is an Arab American. The city of Vista is proud to be the home to a diverse and welcoming community, including residents of Arab heritage who contribute to the cultural, civic, and economic vitality of the city. Arab Americans are part of the Vista's history and continue to shape its future through leadership, service, and everyday contributions. Recognizing ArabAmerican Heritage Month provides an opportunity to celebrate these contributions while promoting greater understanding, inclusion, and respect among all residents. The city of Vista remains committed to fostering inclusive, respectful, and a welcoming environment where all of our residents feel valued and connected. Now, therefore, I and the members of the Vista City Council do hereby proclaim the month of April as National ArabAmerican Heritage Month in the city of Vista and encourage all residents to participate in programs, celebrations, and activities that honor the heritage, culture, and contributions of our Arab-American citizens in our community. Would you like to say anything?

and that'll bring us to our oral communications. Any member of the public may address the council on agency related matters that are not on tonight's agenda by requesting to speak during this section of the agenda. If you are participating via Zoom, please use the raise your hand feature. Press star 9 now if you'd like to speak. The number of speakers heard during this segment is limited to 10. Any remaining speakers will be heard under the second oral communications item if there are more than 10. We do have some oral communications speakers. We will start in here in the chamber with Caitlyn Williams followed by Mary Codddle. If you uh are present, both of you please come forward. Grab a seat in the front row. And uh Caitlyn Williams, the floor is yours. uh up at at the dice here. If you want to just pull that microphone. There you go. Get that as close to your mouth as possible and we'll be able to hear you very well.

Good evening, mayor, city council members and community. My name is Caitlyn Williams and I am the founder of Love to Swim. We are a Vistabased nonprofit focused on drowning prevention, water safety, and swim access for children and families in our community. I am here tonight because drowning is not a rare accident. It is a public safety crisis. According to the CDC, drowning is the leading cause of death for children ages 1 to four in the United States. And it is the second leading cause of unintentional injury death for children ages 5 to 14. Let that sink in. More than car accidents, more than illness, more than the dangers we warn parents about every single day. And what makes it even more devastating is that drowning is often silent, fast, and preventable. For children with autism, this risk is even greater. They are 160 more times more likely to die from drowning than their normal peers. This is not a rare tragedy. This is happening in our communities like ours. And yet, here in Vista, one of the largest growing cities in North County, families still have almost no affordable access to public swim instruction. Neighboring cities like Oceanside, Carlsbad, and San Marcos have continued investing in aquatic access, public facilities, and year-round swim opportunities. Vista has not. Right now, families in our city are being forced onto weight list, priced out private lessons, or pushed into neighboring cities just to access basic life-saving skill. Water safety has become a luxury when it should be a necessity. And at Love to Swim, we are working to change that. We serve children of all ages and all abilities, including those with disabilities, sensory challenges, fear of water, and limited access to traditional swim programs. We provide adaptive swim instruction,

scholarships, and drowning prevention education to families who need it the most. But we have outgrown what we can do. We have the program. We have the demand. We have the business plan. What we do not have is access to a facility in a city that we serve. And that is why I am here today. We are asking the city of Vista to recognize water safety as a public safety priority, to support expanded access to aquatic space, and to begin serious conversation about long-term investment in swim access for Vista families. Because this is not about recreation. This is about prevention. This is about equity and this is about public safety and this is about saving lives. Thank you for your time.

Thank you very much. I'm sure that uh we'll want to have staff follow up with you. Next is Mary Codddle. I'm here because most people um can't speak in front of a crowd. I'm here because I felt you were very dismissive of of me last week when you would not listen to what I was saying. You had your chance to talk. Now I'm going to talk. Um I have been in contact with the developers of Camino Largo. They said I was not in contact. I've been in contact with them from the beginning and I've been ignored and ignored. I've been asking them to not allow their trucks or their vehicles to be driving up and down my driveway, which they continually do. I had to fight for them not to put their power pole extension on my property. And I've also been in contact with you people at the city with little help. I have some more questions for you. Cal West was supposed to build these homes. What happened to Cal West? Why is LAR Homes now in charge of this build? You they re reszoned it all for them to build these homes and then they just disappear and LAR Homes comes in. Why did they not have to start over? When I asked you about the drainage, you said that you have engineers to figure that out. Well, I can show you pictures right now of the hill leaning against their construction fencing or whatever and already giving way. So, when the construction fencing is moved, what's going to happen? The dirt's going to fall. My other complaint was I asked for a wall to be put up at the

end of the housing because not because of the street lights, because the cul-de-sac faces my house. When the cars pull up the culde-sac and turn into their driveways, their headlights will be pulling in into my front window. Right now, I can show you a picture of what my front window looks like. I'm looking at a porta potty when I'm sitting at my dinner table. Pretty disgusting. I don't feel that you people should have let the final plan go through on the Camino Largo project. I'd like to also ask any of you to come out and look at this project and see how well it fits into the neighborhood because it does not. Thank you.

Thank you. And now we'll hear from Madison Rap on Zoom followed by Becky Rap. Hi, good evening, mayor and city council members. Thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight. I wanted to talk about something that affects families like mine who live in multi-unit housing

and like to take our kids to parks. We love our parks and are so grateful to have them. They are great places where children can run freely and play sports and simply be kids in an open area. Parents should be able to bring their children to these spaces without worrying about what might be on the ground or happening nearby. Clean, well-maintained parks are not just about appearance. They are fundamental to public health, safety, and quality of life in our neighborhoods. A growing concern among families is the presence of drug use, and related waste in park areas. When parents and children encounter discarded vape cartridges, cigarette butts, alcohol containers, or other signs of substance use, it changes how safe those spaces feel. Children are naturally curious, and even small overlooked items can pose real risks. At a time when young people are already facing increased screen time, stress, and social isolation, access to safe and welcoming outdoor spaces matters more than ever. So, what can we do to continue prioritizing our parks? Consistent maintenance, visible staff or security presence, adequate lighting, clean and functional restrooms, and timely responses to reports of unsafe conditions, including substance use. When a park is clearly cared for, it sends a strong message that families and neighborhoods are valued. Thank you for your leadership.

Thank you, Becky Rap. Thank you, Becky. Rap

is next, followed by Judy String. Um, my name is Becky Rap and I'm here tonight to share with you yet another study um, proving the detrimental impacts marijuana use has on the developing brain. Last week, a UC San Diego study titled POT's impacts on kids was published where researchers followed more than 11,000 children nationwide starting at ages nine and 10 over a seven-year period. Researchers used repeated cognitive testing to measure skills like memory, attention, and processing speed. Things like recalling word lists, identifying patterns quickly, and sequencing information. And what they found um proves that this is a public health crisis among our young people. All adolescents who used marijuana showed a consistently slower pace of cognitive development compared to their peers. This study stands out because it did not re rely solely on self-reporting as some studies do. It included toxicology testing, hair, urine, and saliva samples, and found that about one in three youth did not disclose their marijuana use. And that has serious consequences for how we understand the scope of the situation. I just come here tonight to urge this council to please prioritize prevention and education, ensure account accountability in existing um marijuana programs and invite local health care professionals to please come share what they are seeing firsthand in our community. If we commi continue to minimize or overlook these findings, the long-term impacts will show up not just in data, but in the classroom and in our

behavioral health system and in the lives of our young people. Thank you. Next is Judy String.

Good. Excuse me. Uh good evening, Mr. City Council and um Mayor Franklin. Thank you for this opportunity to share something that we've had a lot of discussion in our family and that's regarding strokes related to exposure to secondhand and third-hand smoke. I was very impressed when the county put out a newsletter mentioning that that's that heart disease is one of the is the leading cause of death in the United States and Mexico and it's the second leading cause of death in San Diego County. Recent research is particularly spotlighting on the number of strokes with young adults, which is what brings me here today to share this information because it's something we're seeing in our own family. And we're looking at what's behind it. And it's definitely a contributant of smokefree or lack of smoke-free and vape free public spaces and housing. I appreciated the comments of the previous speaker about parks and the trash that happen when people smoke and vape in public places. As the Journal of the American Heart Association recently mentions that in addition to tobacco, cannabis use poses a significant heart health risk. They go on to say that it increases the likelihood of stroke as I mentioned heart attack and heart failure even when these are young healthy individuals because it acceler the use of marijuana accelerates heart rate raises blood pressure and strains the arteries. This carries significant risk for damaging blood vessel function. And what does this mean to policy makers and what can we do? You've already heard some suggestions in the past and I know that you're very interested in this and that's decreasing the exposure of

marijuana and tobacco smoke and vapor in public spaces and in multi-unit housing and that you have quite recognized how important it is to limit the number of permits for tobacco retailers. I'd like to also suggest that we need to reduce the exposure to the promotion and billboards related to marijuana and to the presence of marijuana storefronts in our city. Thank you for letting me share this concern with you this evening.

Thank you very much. That'll bring us to the end of our oral communications. We'll now close the opportunity for oral communications tonight's meeting and that'll bring us to our consent calendar. The recommendations on the following consent calendar will be enacted in one motion unless an item is removed from the calendar. Any member of the public may remove an item by submitting a request to speak card to the clerk secretary here at the dis by using the raise their hand feature on Zoom or by pressing star 9. Items removed from the consent calendar be considered immediately following the adoption of the calendar. We have six consent items this evening. Deputy Mayor O'Donnell move to approve the consent calendar. Council member Contrus. Yeah, I'll second that. Okay,

we have a motion to second. Please cast your votes. Consent calendar is adopted unanimously. That'll bring us to our first public hearing this evening. Public hearing is for compliance with new legal obligations regarding public hearing on vacancies and recruitment and retention efforts. We will now open the public hearing. If any members of the public wish to speak on this item, they may indicate so by using the raise their hand feature, by pressing star9, or by submitting a request to speak card. Speakers will be called upon after the presentation. Our human resources director, Natalie Jacobs, will provide the staff report. Welcome.

Thank you. Good evening, mayor, deputy mayor, members of the city council. Tonight we have our human resources analyst, Erica Valdeino Smith, who will be presenting on the item.

Good evening. I'm Erikica Valdivino Smith, human resources analyst, and tonight we will review our vacancy recruitment and retention efforts for the calendar year 2025 in compliance with Assembly Bill 2561. I will address some context for AB 2561, some information regarding city-wide vacancies, specific vacancy information for each of our bargaining units, as well as some recruitment and retention statistics for the calendar year 2025. AB2561 was passed in 2024 and became effective January 1st, 2025, adding government code 3502.3 to the Myers Milis Brown Act, otherwise known as MMBA. This law was enacted due to statewide interest ensuring that all public agency operations are appropriately staffed and that high vacancy rates do not undermine public employee labor relations. The bill requires that all public agencies share information regarding vacancies, recruitment, and retention efforts annually. If the number of job vacancies in a single bargaining unit meets or exceeds 20% of the authorized full-time positions, the city upon request of the recognized employee organization um is required to report on the total number of vacancies, the number of applicants, the average time to fill positions, and opportunities to improve compensation and working conditions for the employees in the bargaining units. We are happy to report that in 2025, Vista once again did not meet or exceed the 20% threshold at any time in the calendar year. This table depicts month-by-month statistics regarding citywide vacancies for 2025. Our average citywide vacancy was 2.7% with the highest point being 4.2% in August and lowest being 1.5% in April. We ended 2025 with 333.625 625 full-time equivalent positions with a 3.3 vacancy rate. Our annual average was a 0.5 improvement from our 2024 rate of 3.2. This graph depicts that all of our

bargaining units were well below the 20% threshold uh for 2025. Uh Vista um VCA uh was uh average annual 2.5% vacancy. Vista City Maintenance Association was a 2.1% annual vacancy um rate. Vista Firefighter Association 1% and Vista Chief Officer Association had no vacancies in the year of 2025. Diving deeper into the causes of all 2025 vacancies and types of recruitments to fill them. 37% of vacancies were due to staffing growth such as added positions, promotions, or retirements. 42% were due to turnover and 21% were involuntary separations. Of the vacancies filled in 2025, 67% were filled via open recruitment, 18% filled via an existing eligibility list, and 15% were internal or promotional only. A few ways we have achieved our low vacancy rate would be our attendance of local career fairs targeting high school, colleges, and community events. keeping our compensation structure and benefits competitive across the San Diego job market, continuously providing training and professional development to our existing staff to keep employees up to date with changes in their respective functional areas and keeping our staff viable for potential promotional opportunities. Engaging with our local schools via internship programming, which gives students the opportunity to experience firsthand public sector operations and potentially gain their consideration for future employment opportunities. Additionally, utilizing online job boards and social media platforms has widened our candidate pool, engaging both active and passive job seekers. Uh, finally, we would be remiss not to recognize the ongoing efforts of city leadership and council. Uh, their commitment plays a vital role in making Vista a great place to work and fosters a culture that supports both our

employees and the community that we serve. This concludes our report for calendar year 2025 AB2561 and we are available for any questions. Do we have any questions? Oh, here he is again. We have any questions? Well, thank you very much for your great report. We appreciate that. So, looks like we're all in compliance and everyone's happy. Good. Do we get uh we get or seek any input from our employee groups on this report? have a meeting with them to discuss it or will we do that?

We did reach out to the groups individually and gave them the opportunity to respond and to speak tonight and we had no takers. Everyone's happy. Uh silence means consent. Absolutely. Very good. Well, thank you for the great report, Council Member Fox. Um since this is a public hearing, do we need to close the public hearing? I think we do need to close. Okay. Well, I'd make a motion to close the public hearing. Thank you very much. And let's see. So, we've opened and conducted. We didn't adopt any new policies. We just received that report. Very good. Okay. Uh, Deputy Mayor O'Donnell, I'll second the motion.

Okay, we have a motion to second. Please cast your votes. Citywide facilities master program update. Any members of the public wish to speak on this item? They may indicate so by using the raise your hand feature by pressing star item submitting a request to speak card here at the dis. Speakers will be called upon after the presentation. Our public works director Chris RC will introduce the item.

Uh good evening mayor, deputy mayor, and members of the city council. Welcome.

Oh, I was waiting for the thing to come up. Sorry. Uh my name is Chris Hary. I'm the public works director and I'm here tonight with Aldo Hernandez, our public works operations manager and he will be providing an update on our citywide facility master program. Good evening, mayor and city council. This facility master program was established to address the many city facilities which are experiencing operational and physical deterioration including park restrooms, fire stations, skate parks and other properties. These city- owned facilities range from few years old to over 25 years old are maintained by public works departments and other monitors and and monitored by public works, the community improvement team and park rangers. Facilities that are open to the public have been experiencing greater use and progressive accelerated decline. The maintenance of these facilities is typically funded through annual operational operations budgets approved by the city council. However, some facilities have required more extensive and emergency repairs and therefore have been funded through year-end fund balances or additional operations funding through various quarterly budget adjustments to ensure that the city facilities are maintained to an acceptable level of services. Staff developed a citywide facility master program and brought brought it forward to the city council on March 12, 2024. The program identifies needed and funding for all city owned facilities. Establish projects priority by review the conditions of all facilities current and future needs and costs associated with the upgrades. The program also includes ongoing analysis of service request histories, tracking of stuff staff time spent providing repairs to make informant and needed based

adjustments to the established project schedule on the annual basis. We would like to provide an update on the status of the fiscal year 2025 2025 2026 projects since our last presentation in March 2025. At the time we had a total of 15 projects. Today we are happy to report 12 projects have been completed and the remaining three are either pending contract approval or scheduling. On this slide you will see the pictures highlighting a number of projects completed throughout the current fiscal year. The purpose of this presentation is to provide an update an updated project schedule for fiscal year 2627 developed through the city established evaluation process. Projects identified with an asterisk are proposed to be funded through proposition L funds while the remaining projects are anticipated to be funded through the redevelopment reserve funds. For fiscal year 2627, staff has identified 21 additional projects to be incorporated into the facility master plan project. Key project consist of lighting upgrades across multiple sites to improve energy efficient and reduce long-term maintenance cost, improvements of the moonlight facility, including alarm system upgrades to enhance safety, as well as roof repairs and improvements. Renovations at the JP Rec Center focus on modernizing the facilities and enhancing overall community use. The total estimate cost for repairs to upgrade across various facilities for the upcoming fiscal year. It's approximately 3.7 million. This facility master plan is a living document that will be evaluated annually which new projects incorporate as they are identified. staff respectfully requests that the

city council approves this proposed update to the city facility master plan which supports essential upgrades and repairs across city facilities. As noted, staff recommends utilizing Prop L funds and re redevelopment revenues. I'm sorry. Uh redevelopment re reserve funds to support the proposed projects as fiscal impacts will any fiscal impacts will be evaluated and implemented following the city council directions and will be incorporated into the fiscal year 2627 midcycle update and future operations budgets. Thank you for your time. This concludes staff's presentation and we're happy to answer any questions.

Thank you very much. Do we have any members of the public wish to comment? Okay. What's the total amount of Prop L reserve funds that we uh proposed to fund? What was it? 3.6 million. I So with Prop L and with the the reserve funds, the I don't have the exact amount in front of me. You're saying for this 2627 um unfortunately I do not have that number, but I can get that uh to you. can add it up real quick, too. Um, but yeah, I don't have that right now.

So, out of the 21 projects, we have eight projects that will be propel funded. So, this 3.678 million, some of this is already authorized in our capital expenditure budget and some is not yet. Some you said that eight projects are new. No, there's 21 new projects on it. 21 new projects. Okay. And then they'll be split eight for the prop bell monies and then the the reserve funds. Did you say 1/8? No, eight. Eight. Oh, eight. Okay, that's where I got the eight. And then 13 are from the reserve. Okay.

Okay. Just over a million dollars. John says in Prop L funds. Uh have you highlighted here which uh do we have in front of us which ones are prop bell funded? The Yes, the ones with the asterric have are prop bell.

I appreciate it. We we had a close session meeting. It was very warm and I'm recovering from being uh being cooked a little bit. Uh okay. I would like to see us have a more complete discussion about the future of the Prop Bell reserve funds uh rather than spend them in drips and drabs. I'm not saying I'm opposed to it, but I'd like to have a holistic conversation as a council about the future of our Prop L reserves. Uh, Council Member Contrarus.

Yeah, Mayor Franklin. Actually, I was going to ask because I didn't see it uh represented in in the agenda report either. Um, you know, I am in favor of of doing these renovations and these projects need to happen. Uh, but I think it would uh behoove um staff to uh present uh what a budget would look like. um you know looking at the overall Prop L funds minus you know what we're looking to to spend of it uh to complete these projects. I think a simple slide like that would at least uh give us a little bit more information. Uh because that's the first question that popped into my mind as well. Uh I I don't think that any uh of the projects that I'm seeing before me um are going to be, you know, detrimental and a huge destruction to our Prop L funds. But I I definitely agree um that I would like to see that information. And so I'm totally open to in the future having a a bigger discussion about our Propel. you know, we were going to utilize Propel for the majority of the Wave Water Park, which I think was about 3.5 million or so. Um, so I do want to take a holistic look at that. Um, but like I said, just reviewing these, I don't see it to be an astronomical amount. So, I'll go ahead and Are you looking for direction or what are you looking for with this item?

We're seeking approval of the list of projects. Yeah, I'll go ahead and and move approval of of this list of projects. Thank you.

Uh I see the city manager want to be recognized. Um I I just one more thought to be more clear. Uh I personally, you know, we we had discussed for several years having a round of renewal uh effectively for long-term capital assets that would be near the end of their life. uh you know using the the reserves to renew those assets and I guess I just want to know that each of these is sort of a renewal like it's one-time money so I want to see it treated like onetime money and not used for uh replacing things that would be um you know ordinary like I mean I don't know about an ice machine is that I'm getting into the nitty-gritty of the examples here but you know how often do we have to replace an ice machine and is that is that an operating expense or is that a long-term capital uh item that we you know I I I don't want I don't want the city as an organization to become dependent for operating money on using these reserves. Uh I want it to be used for renewal of capital assets. Uh and we should have a an operating budget that we should be able to fund out of our regular revenues for regular operations. I just want to separate onetime money from onetime uses and recurring expenses from recurring revenues. Uh Mr. City Manager,

so we will bring an item back uh probably in June to review the Propel reserves. Uh in total, the only money that we are or the only projects I should say that we're using the Propel revenue for are those projects that were built with Propel. So the maintenance and um capital costs and you know derived from those projects are being funded by the Propel Reserve. We haven't proposed anything else other than projects we brought before the council. So, we'll clarify that and bring it back in June. Okay. I appreciate it. Uh, Deputy Mayor Donald, you did make a motion, right? Yeah. I'm just second the motion.

Okay, we have a motion to second. Please cast your votes. Okay, that item is approved unanimously. That'll bring us Thank you very much. That'll bring us to our second discussion item regarding senior rental subsidy program parameters. If any members of the public wish to speak on this item, they may indicate so by using the raise their hand feature, by pressing star 9, or submitting a request to speak card. speakers will be called upon after the presentation. Our assistant city manager, Aldo Huerta, will introduce the item.

Thank you. Good evening, mayor, deputy mayor, members of the city council. My name is Aldoerta, assistant city manager, and with me today's Jonathan Lung, our housing and homeless services program division manager. This item is a followup on the discussion regarding the proposed senior rental subsidy program first considered by city council um on February 24th. As a quick background, on November 12th of last year, funding for a new senior rental subsidy program was approved with $500,000 of fiscal year 2425 year in fund balance. On February 24th, 2026, the city council considered staff's proposed program design for the senior rental subsidy program and recommended changes to the eligibility criteria. the city council director staff to present the proposed changes to the senior citizens affairs commission for their feedback on at their March 18th, 2026 meeting. As as part of that uh discussion, there was an add to packet from Commissioner Sid Rothenberg that includes items for further discussion and to be brought back to the senior commission. And part of the add to packet is also a general plan update map um regarding housing security by census tract. The propo the program is proposed to provide assistance with rental and housing related costs for low-income and rent burden seniors with rent and utility payments including a rears for up to 24 months directly to landlords and service providers. The objective of these awards is to help households achieve long-term stability after the subsidy ends with households paying no more than 60% of gross household income towards rent. This can be achieved through a combination of increasing household income, decreasing household expenses, and finding more affordable housing options. Eligible costs would include a monthly

rental subsidy of 250, 500, 750, or $1,000 for up to 24 months. Emergency housing costs including rent and utility arars. Costs to support increasing household income including employment supports and public benefits applications. Costs to decrease household expenses and relocation costs to support transition to a more affordable unit including family or friend reunification. With the changes proposed by the city council on February 24th, 2026, eligible households includes lease holders living in a rental unit within Vista city limits. Have a head of household who is a senior or has a senior dependent with seniors defined as 70 years or better for the purposes of the program. Spending 60% or more of household gross income on housing, and spending no more than 80% of household gross income after the subsidy is applied. Eligible households will have income of 30% of area median income or less. Total assets of less than $2,000 and not receiving rental uh receiving rental assistance from any other programs. As Mother mentioned, on March 18th, 2026, the senior commission voted to recommend approving the program as proposed as a pilot program and requested the city use data collected during the program's administration to consider the eligible population and explore additional funding sources to continue the program beyond the pilot. Staff recommend the city council direct staff to publish a request for proposals using the parameters presented tonight to solicit a program administrator. The RFP will be available for 30 days with an award recommended to city council expected on June 23rd, 2026 with an expectation for the administrator to begin accepting applications for assistance no later than 30 days following the award. This concludes staff's presentation and we are available for any questions. Thank you, Council Member Melendez.

Yes. Are there any speakers from the public on this item? No. No. Okay. Well, thank you so much for following up with us on this item. Um, I'm really glad it got to go before our senior commission and that they were able to confirm, yes, uh, this is the type of program that we want to see and let's try to roll it out with these eligibility criteria. Um, we would have the opportunity to see more about the RFP when and if it comes back to us. Is that correct? Yes. The next meeting is proposed to recommend an award at which time the RFP will be included with the agenda packet. Okay. Um so this would be the best time to give feedback on the RFP.

Mhm.

Okay. So my biggest piece of feedback for this program is uh yes, let's treat it like a pilot program, but in doing that let's try to track as much information as we can about um the need on this topic. We know that seniors are the highest growing population experiencing homelessness and housing insecurity. And when we do uh hopefully we can pass this and when we do um have seniors reaching out to us for assistance, there might be folks that reach out because they see that the you know big headline of the program and they are not quite eligible because they're not making that um age requirement or they don't have uh a verifiable disability. Um, and so I would really want our our partner, our contractor that we're going out for proposals for who's going to be administering this program. I would love for them to um uh be willing to collect that type of information for us. um even if they can't um you know uh have them complete a full intake program uh you know full intake paperwork because they're not eligible for the program. I just want to make sure that we have a touch point through our um operator. I know it can be really painful for the community when they see that there's services available and then they reach out and they feel tossed around and like they can never actually get the services that they need because they're not eligible or this or that. So, I really want to make sure that our operator understands that. The other thing I would love for our operator to have a strength in is um senior services already, right? because when inevitably there are folks that call and are interested in the program or they apply online or um however we end up administering the program,

I would hope that if there's folks that need services in addition to rental assistance that we would be able to have a good operator that is well-versed in senior services and can make sure that they have um more uh linkages for those folks. Um the other uh component that comes to mind is um having an operator that is local. Of course, I know we have a lot of operators throughout the county of San Diego, but somebody who is local and familiar um to the community. Um, and I'd love to hear what my other council members have to say, but I'm just really excited that we do have some resources available to offer rental assistance for seniors and recognize that um, in the long term, seniors do need subsidies because the cost uh, of of living is going up and their income is not necessarily going up. In fact, many folks are on a fixed income. So, I'm glad that we can move this forward. I would go ahead and make a motion to um with uh feedback from the council and consensus from the council uh to move forward uh with this senior rental subsidy program um and put out an RFP so that we can administer and operate it. Thanks,

Council Member Contrus. Yeah, you know, um I'm looking at some of the eligibility requirements and and I do have I'm not sure if I'm 100% aligned with these. Uh I I question only having this eligible for seniors that are lease holders or lived in a rental. Um does that exclude seniors that are homeowners? That's what I'm reading it as.

As proposed, it would, but again, these are local funds funding it. So, we have no real restrictions. The city council can direct any changes to the program it would like.

Okay. Um, I I would like to see the eligibility expanded. Um, we are continuing to see a affordability crunch and crisis and it's hitting our seniors and folks on fixed income uh really hard. So, I wouldn't want I wouldn't want someone to not be eligible just because they own a home. Uh I think that would be a disservice to our senior population. I also question uh senior defined as 70 plus. I think that's way too too many years. uh I would prefer for uh our senior uh population to be in line with some other type of definition that we have for senior. So for our senior services is that 55 plus generally it's like there's like two different depending on the service right sometimes it's 65 plus sometimes it's 55 plus

correct

so I would be uh more immunable to 65 years and again this is you know if my council is is uh is in line with these um but these are just my recommendations So 65 years. Um I am I I am curious about this calculation on the eligibility spending more than 60% of household gross income on housing and then when the subsidy is applied that they're spending no more than 80% of income on housing. Um, hey, can you explain that just a little bit more because it's a little confusing to me.

Certainly. Yeah. So, by definition, households should generally be spending no more than 30% of the gross household income and income. Otherwise, they're considered rent burdened. In the current environment, most households are paying well above that. 60% seems more reasonable to be still considered, of course, severely rent burdened. 80% the limit of no more than 80% after the subsidy applies means that we're able to resolve their immediate and imminent risk of losing their housing. If they're still paying beyond 80% of gross household income after the subsidy is applied, they're not likely to be able to retain their housing even with a subsidy. They'd still be severely rent burdened. In that case, they'd probably recommend it for emergency services.

Okay, so let me let me just play this out a little bit more so I can understand it better. Okay. So, say I'm a senior. Um, I'm applying for this and I'm spending um 70% of my household gross income on housing.

Mh. once I get this subsidy uh or to even qualify to the whoever is uh the program administrator or operator will look at this application and say in this tier um of what you can receive in funding to alleviate your your burden uh you will be spending no more than 80% of your income. So you do meet the and let's just say I meet all the other eligibility criteria. So that calculation would be done upfront in at the time of application. Yes. Right.

Okay. Okay. Um is this something that we see uh program administrators do pretty often? Is is it out of their scope? Can you because I don't have a lot of This is based on the city of the San Diego housing commission's rental assistance program. They use these same parameters which we've adopted. Okay. Are recommending to adopt? Mhm. Yeah.

And so with these parameters, I mean, do we see that that's they have, you know, we call them positive exits. Um, so are they seeing with these criteria positive exits from an affordability issue for our seniors?

Yeah, absolutely. Theirs isn't limited to seniors. They have a few different eligible targeted populations. We're of course focusing on seniors. The primary issue again of course is their ability to maintain the home stably after the subsidy is applied. It's not just going to be the subsidy. It's also going to include the other wraparound supports. Also budgeting, right? So increasing household income, decreasing expenses. So it's not just reducing how much they're paying on housing, but how much income they have to pay their housing and other discretionary funds that are necessary to maintain the home.

Okay. And you know, one of the things that I would like to see wrapped into the RFP is uh for folks that apply for this that don't qualify for them to be uh you have a warm handoff to which other which any other program that might they might qualify for. Uh do we have a system built like that that makes it easy to see where they would qualify or is that something that would need to be built? Uh yeah,

the existing providers for the most part of course are very knowledgeable the different services available and that meet the needs of what tend to be common barriers for for households applying for this kind of assistance. So I don't I don't foresee any issue with a provider having the ability to refer them to other resources very easily. Okay. Yeah. I would just want to make that part of the criteria.

Of course we'll also report on what other services are being connected. And you know, I know that the success of of you know, someone not qualifying for this program, but being successfully qualifying for another program, like I I don't need that to be wrapped into the RFP, but I do want to ensure that folks are being uh connected to the other resources that they may qualify for. So, I think that's critical language to have in the RFP. Um, I do agree with council member Melendez um that it would be great for a program um administrator or operator that does have uh knowledge in senior services um and it would be great if they are a local operator. Uh I don't know if you know we're thinking about a point system in the RFP. Um but I think that those certainly having uh having senior services under their belt and understanding uh this population is going to be critical. So I think that's that's very important. And then when we're looking at uh the assets totaling less than 2,000, is this also from the uh housing commission?

That's right. Okay. Because that I mean 2,000 is I know it's thousands, but it's that doesn't go very far. So yeah, that's the idea. with assets not totally more than $2,000, there may not be an immediate need for those who don't have the assets to recover their housing instability. That's the with having that criteria and eligibility. But of course, again, that can be adjusted according to the city council's preference. Yeah. Because I'm wondering, I mean, if we look at um like say senior the senior that's applying for this has a vehicle that is worth more than $2,000. I mean, is that taken into account as well?

It may or may not be. We would probably leave it up to the service provider to make that determination whether or not it's like a it's a it's an asset that could be liquidated easily enough to cure cure their housing instability. I think it would probably be case by case. Okay. Mostly I think it would be traditional considerations like bank accounts, savings accounts, cash on hand, anything that's liquidable. Okay. Again, we can set additional parameters to what that means tonight. I mean, I feel like even just having the language that it has to be you have liquidity to it, I think is important because

again, I I don't want to discourage, you know, 2,000 is a is a low amount for a value of certain assets that a senior might have. Um,

which would include, you know, if they have a home or some other type of asset. But I feel like to get to the intent of this program, I see why this parameter is on here. But I definitely would like it to be more um based on on something that's uh liquid versus, you know, not so liquid. Uh so no, I I just I I appreciate staff. I appreciate Council Member Melendas for bringing this forward. um a lot of the work, you know, that you all have done to to really round out this program. I thank the senior commission for taking a look at it and I thank my council for getting it to this this place. So, I think if you're just looking for consensus, I would love to hear from the rest of my council members. But again, I think uh lowering it from 70 to 65 years and expanding the eligibility beyond a lease holder or someone uh who is renting. Thanks.

You know, I have some real concerns about this uh plan and I brought them up before last time we talked about it. Starting with the fact that if you apply the benefit amount of $250, that would enable us to provide the benefit over 24 months to 83 seniors. If the maximum benefit was paid out, we'd only be able to help 20 seniors. So, we spend a half million dollars on this. Uh we've got 1300 seniors in Vista that live in poverty. Uh so if we make the application limits the criteria uh very broad then you're going to have a large number of people who are going to qualify and it becomes a lottery system because most people won't qual. My concern also is uh you know we're we're making a 24-month commitment to people. Uh this would create a series of recurring uh you know sort of lattered commitments as months go by and we make new 24-month obligations. What will we do if the day comes when we're not able to renew our annual support for this program? I think also it would be very difficult to have seniors come before us and explain that they were eligible for the program but that they couldn't get it because the funding wasn't sufficient which would I think naturally make those of us on the council want to approve more funding for it because you know certainly all of these 1300 seniors that live below the poverty line in Vista uh probably are all deserving of help Uh but the real question is can we afford to grow government in this way? If you're reading the Union Tribune right now, you're seeing reports of the city of San Diego having to shutter all kinds of recreation programs, cutting back library hours, a whole number of

things because they grew government services beyond the original scope and mandate of municipal government. This really is beyond the scope of municipal government to provide a direct housing subsidy. We've gotten into the uh emergency housing assistance business where people who have a short-term uh setback can get some assistance from the city. But it seems that this program is aimed at people who have a structural deficiency in their revenues. Is that accurate, Mr. Long? I think that's appropriate to say. Well, what what what good would this do somebody at the end of the 24 months when the subsidy runs out and they're now ineligible for it?

Yeah. So, that's the key, I think, to this program. It's not just the subsidy, but also the decreasing of household expenses, increasing household income. That could include including additional household members, considering shared housing, moving to more affordable housing. So, it's not just the subsidy, though. Of course, that is the core of the program, but there are other options to help decrease what households are paying in gross household income towards housing, not just the subsidy. In practice, of course, it remains to be seen.

Yeah. Uh I I don't know that we have a lot of history succeeding in that. Uh we've tried to create a and I thought it was a great program, the senior shared housing program. uh our shared housing the the jury is really out on the first incarnation of shared housing was not a success. We canled the contract uh found a new operator and I'm as of yet very unconvinced about the success of the new operator. But um this is really uh an a growth of government here in Vista into a place where we have not provide I mean how do you say no to the other 1300 seniors that uh would be deserving based on their income level and we're you know if we don't have because we're we just you know we're spending we just spent a million dollars of propell reserves to take care of maintenance items. Those are one-time monies. They'll be gone when they're gone. Um, I just have serious reservations about taking on a new recurring commitment. There's will be no way to turn this off once you turn it on. Uh, and the cost is formidable. I mean, if we if we looked at the, you know, the 1,300 people in poverty who are seniors and we multiply that out times the $24,000 benefit, I mean, that's that's $32 million. So, you're authorizing a benefit that if it was fully funded would cost the city $32 million. That's more than we pay the sheriff's department or the firefighters. I I just I I don't see how you can say yes to 20 people or to 83 people, but no to the other 1300 while you're growing uh the local government into a service category. It it's never

provided in all the 60 what is it 3 years that we've been a city. So, I have some serious concerns that I I just don't see my way to support this growth of of government at this time. Council member Fox.

Thank you, Mayor. Um, so I I've written out a couple notes here. Uh I think I could get on board with the I I think that what the mayor may mayor a lot of made a lot of good points there on the fact that if it is just going to be a ongoing program that it you know it has to be sustainable and has to be so what would change about this if we were to consider it more of an emergency subsidy program where it's people that are you know are our seniors that are about to um they're at risk to for immediate homelessness or something like that would would much change in the program as it is or would it just be more of a framing?

If we if the city council would want to change this more towards emergency rental assistance like the VHAP C2, we certainly could do that and it would just have a pool reserve specifically for seniors and it would mirror VHAP C2 very closely, but the the yeah, the eligibility probably wouldn't change much, I'm guessing, as uh VHAPC2 for the most part. So as approved by the city council, the two funding pools are for 80% and 65% AMI. In practice, all of our applicants are 30% or lower. So this is actually stricter than the other emergency. It would be, but again would save we would receive the same types of applications from similar demographics just with this one specifically again for seniors.

Yeah. because I think I think the idea of having it's probably a lot cheaper for us to you know get in front of the problem and make sure that people aren't going into homelessness in the first place. And so the fact that it comes with the wraparound services is what makes me interested in this because I think that the fact that we're able to potentially take someone who was about to about to become homeless that we can guarantee has ties to Vista because they're currently a Vista resident uh get in front of that have those wraparound services and I'm guessing that a lot of these people would have qualified for some outside housing subsidy through some other program if we weren't here potentially. Right now, there aren't a lot of rental assistance programs left since CO. Okay.

Um certainly in Vista, I'm not aware of any that any of our residents are eligible for. Okay. But potentially something like disability or some of these other things that they would probably be eligible for. Yeah. That we could potentially facilitate for them. And yeah, of course. Yeah. Most of our seniors are likely enrolled in in most of the benefits they're eligible for. Part of the case management here will ensure that they are. And if they're not, we will assist with enrolling for those benefits cuz I think that that's that would be the thing I think is the most valuable is someone who's potentially not on all the benefits that they're that they are eligible for

that we can use this program to hold them over for a little while while we help them get on those programs and then potentially get them off this and potentially less than the 24 months

potentially. Ideally, of course. And I because I think that would be the piece that would make it so this scales up a little bit easier is if not everyone's running the whole 24 months every time that changes that math quite a bit as well. So um I will say that u when it comes to criteria I I think I agree with Council Member Contrarus on a lot of those items. Uh I I would be open to the housing piece. Obviously that would um for for home ownership rather than than rentals. Obviously, that would throw that assets totaling less than $2,000 off a little bit. So, um maybe it's net assets or something. So, if the property is underwater, then that would make you more eligible um than someone who has a completely paid off home. Um obviously, that wouldn't make sense. uh the car piece, you know, I wouldn't if I wouldn't want to make that disqualify someone, but if someone's driving around in a Camaro and doesn't want to sell it because, you know, and and you know, then maybe that could be disqualifying. So, I don't know how to actually put that in writing to where that solves one issue without creating another. But if you can figure that out, that would be great. Um, I think those are the those are the my main questions. So again, if we can treat this, you know, with I think the criteria I I trust that you know, whatever um organization is is fulfilling this would take the most eligible people, not just everyone who potentially meets the requirements. And so if we even had stricter or less strict criteria than this, like the other emergency service, most even though we allow up to 65%, they're picking the people who were lower first that that we can make the biggest impact on. So, I would hope that that would be the same thing in this program as people who are the closest to potentially going into homelessness and and things that we can actually have a verifiable impact

and keep people off the streets. That would be, I think, my um my hope for the for the program. Um and again, if we can just position it a little bit more as an emergency program, a temporary, like not a a ongoing subsidy like that, uh I think that that would solve a lot of my um my issues with it as well. So, thank you, Deputy Mayor.

Yeah, actually I share the same concerns that the two of you share and uh one, does this become a long-term sub subsidy program that we can no longer afford to pay for? It just or grows too large, but also from a housing standpoint, uh eligibility requirements around it uh are a huge thing to me as well. So, I mean, one of the questions I have, what remedy does this create once the program ends? I mean, does it solve the issue for these individuals or as you had just mentioned since there's fewer programs available, does it just leave them in the same position two years from now? Um, I don't mind adding households that are owned, but I would want to see them have lived in Vista and in that home for at least 12 years. Uh, and the reason for that being like if you bought your home 5 years ago and you're going to try and qualify for this program, it it's probably you should probably sell your home, you know, um, or find find a method because 250 bucks a month is probably not going to save your home in that time frame. But if you've lived here for 12 years, you didn't spend half or 800 $900,000 on your home. So, it's probably going to have a much greater impact uh on your finances and your ability uh to pay for them. Uh when when we talk about cure and stability, I don't want to tell anybody they have to sell their home to not lose it. Uh but to have that type of asset and in the rates that they are right now, that would solve it immediately. It's not just having a car or whatever other assets might be available. Um one of the questions I had though, do they need to be in debt or they just need to simply prove that they are within that threshold? There is not a requirement to prove of any debt, but of course they can. This program can assist with the rears, but it's not a requirement. They would just have to be within that the threshold of spending more than 6% on housing and no more than 80% after the subsidy is applied. But again, at full discretion of the city council to change any of those.

And mayor, I know you had mentioned 1300 seniors uh that would probably fit this criteria. Do we know how many of them own a home? I don't have that number. Okay. But I would imagine being as they're in poverty, probably most of them are renters,

right? Yeah, I would think the same. Um, yeah, I mean, I can I can probably get on board with this, but I would want the criteria to be the the neediest of individuals, uh, when it comes to this criteria, the ones that are in the most at risk category. Uh because I I agree that this could balloon way out of control and then we're actually put people in a position where they're I don't want to say worse off, but it just doesn't help solve the problem long term and it may put us in an uncomfortable position of how do you say no to 1300 seniors that need money. Um but I'm I can be on board with it. I just my one criteria if you're a homeowner uh for me to be on board would be that if you're if we're going to lower it to 65 uh and you own a home, you have to have lived there for at least 12 years. Council member Mendes.

Thank you, Council. I appreciate everyone's feedback. Uh, I would say I support reducing to 65 or older. Um, I also support the modifications that have been recommended for home ownership. Uh, I think 12-year home ownership criteria is helpful. Um, I would say that we at least want to include that in the criteria, although I do think that this is more geared towards renters. Um, and I think that um, you know, another thing that I wanted to say before, which is why I pressed my button, was that we it would be good to have an operator um, you know, who is willing to do some level of outreach. So, I really appreciate Council Member Fox's comments that we're not just hoping to um you know, first come, first serve, whoever meets the criteria, rush through. Maybe there can be an application period and there can be a wave of applicants that apply because this is Yeah, let's get all 1300 folks applied. Let's get those folks plugged into services somehow. So at least we know the scope of the problem in front of us. And then when we have an evaluation, we can see through a rubric that there are applicants that rise to the top in terms of need. Um and then we can uh strategize those funds, right? Uh is it just going to go to uh you know the top uh 20 people, right? or are we going to give more in some areas and be able to provide uh a little bit less support in other areas? The other uh comment that I wanted to make is regarding um the

benefit to the program in the long term. Um people put off a lot of basic uh welfare in order to pay their rent. So when you're 60% uh rent burdened in your household, you're not really p, you know, putting out money for your dental care. Um, you're not really, you know, taking care of your nutrition the best way that it could, right? And so in the two potential years that we could be offering this program to a senior household, those seniors can be improving their quality of life and increasing their longevity. And ultimately we're speaking about people that are towards the end of their life. And one of the things that folks have been waiting for for a good amount of time is section 8. And we could even include, you know, within the criteria that you are even more eligible if you're waiting for section 8 because then we know that within a certain time frame, which continues to be extended, section 8 weight list is 10 plus years, that those folks that are guaranteed to have government housing for the long term, uh, would be a great, um, applicant for this type of program. So we can structure it in a way working with multiple agencies to shepherd those seniors along that we know are going to need help in the long run. And it is our responsibility to help senior citizens and to provide social welfare. That's the responsibility of our able-bodied government officials that have yet to

become dependent. Since I'm not yet dependent on anyone, I can take care of myself. I want to make sure that we are taking care of our senior residents first. And we did have over $500,000 in surplus. We paid for public safety. We paid for infrastructure and all of our existing public services. And we still had money left over because we are that prosperous. And now we have the responsibility to take care of seniors. And in the long term, it's the supportive services, I 100% agree, that are going to help folks get there. But it's not enough to just say, "Hey, go get a roommate and figure it out." Let's bring people in, provide them a little bit of support, and then, yeah, maybe we can do some family reunification. Maybe we can do some coupling up to help people survive in the long run. Maybe that two years of assistance will help people bridge the gap for their section 8 voucher. So many many different circumstances here, but ultimately what I'm hearing from the council is that um there's some funds available for this. This isn't homelessness prevention per se, but it is responding to the growing increase in senior homelessness and trying to improve the quality of life for seniors in our city. So, uh, I would support all of the, um, you know, in consensus building, all of the modifications. Um, I'm glad that we could be on the same page about those, but I just really want to express my support of the program and how valuable these services are, even if they're just for the the short term, that they're not going to resolve issues of poverty immediately. Uh, they really can impact someone's life. um potentially even reducing the burden of emergency services is

incredibly stressful for people to not be able to afford a roof over their head. It's just a basic human right to have housing and I want to make sure that our city if we have a little bit of extra that um not only can we save for the future and and um have good rainy day funds like we do, but that we can also support those that are in need. So, thank you for bringing this forward and for walking us through the process a little bit further. Appreciate you, Council Member Contrarus.

Okay, so some some good conversation. Um, you know, I just like with our um our youth scholarships, uh, how we have a certain period of time. I'm thinking, you know, if this is intended to to maybe be a 24-month pilot, um maybe we have four uh emergency tunches, two per year at, you know, around $125,000. Uh so we would have two application periods per year. Uh and then obviously, you know, we would get reports back about this. And so if for some reason we're seeing when we first put this out that that 125 is is gone quickly and that's a conversation I think that the council needs to take up. Um but I would be okay with that. And I I do like the suggestion uh from council member Melendez about the section 8 weight list as a potential criteria uh that would show emergency um over maybe some other criteria. Um, I don't know enough about how that would be implemented in a formula, but potentially, you know, the operator would would have some a better idea or staff would have some better idea. I'm also wondering if you know the intention is to ensure long-term stability if there should be a case manager um which would then kind of it might cost more to operate. Can you

all of the applicants will have a case manager?

Okay. So they will Okay, fantastic. because I that we have seen in our other services where there where there's case management that there's high levels of success when we're able to have a case manager. So that's good. And you know potentially the new name is just adding emergency to the beginning, the emergency senior rental subsidy program. Uh, and you know, I think the the formula of spending no more than 80% of income on housing after the subsidy is applied kind of um potentially would filter out those who would need this as a very long-term subsidy. So, I I would I would really want uh the operator to maybe do a deep dive on on what that looks like per applicant and have a very um you know, as part of of the financial aspect of this and planning, be able to have a solid plan that, you know, potentially the um the person receiving the subsidy might even have to sign off that this is, you know, they understand and this is a a plan that they, you know, approve of. Um, so th those are just some thoughts. Uh, but I I really do think that we need to do this. I think we have, uh, you know, we've been really prudent with our budgeting. We've been really fortunate to be in different uh a different circumstance than other cities because we've been very prudent uh and very um focused on return on investment and closing any funding gaps. And so I do not see putting aside $500,000 to

help those who are the most needy as an issue, especially because we all know that this is this is something that we should do and we can keep it to the 24 months. uh and it's just sharing the benefit with the rest of the city to make sure that we have more community well-being and health and connection and stability. uh and in the future if we are so fortunate to continue to have budget million plus dollar surpluses in our budget then and we see that this need continues to grow you know we can have a discussion about that in the future but right now we know we have the funding available and it's the right thing to do. So uh that would be some of my uh additional comments in support of this program. Thank you. I just uh also point out when we're looking at single person household income eligibility of $2,896 a month. The average social security check in America is $2,79. So this would uh based on income eligibility would make every social security recipient uh now assuming we're going to keep the the $2,000 uh in place. So, they'd have to have less than $2,000 of assets. Uh, which I think would ace out almost every homeowner. Um, but every social security earner who doesn't have an additional source of uh and and by the way, I mean, okay, so I can't have $2,000, so I'm not going to have any passive income. Uh but it just seems like, you know, we we had the 70 years or older and now we've taken it down to 65. Uh which puts

people who are uh better able to work, if you're under the age of 70, uh it puts a a cohort of individuals who are better able to work in a competition with people who are not as easily able to work. So, I I think we should reconsider that. And uh and I think maybe we need to get a lot lower with the percentage of AMI because you're going to have every social security earner in the city is going to be eligible. So, I I just think it needs to be, you know, this needs to be truly if you're going to do it. And then I I would I like what council member Fox is is getting to and it sounds like there might be agreement to get there, which is to say instead of a subsidy program, this is uh to be added to our emergency housing program. Um so we're going to do some counseling, but it's not going to be mandatory to uh rearrange your housing expenses. In other words, we're not requiring people to make a change, a long-term change to their their housing costs. Is that going to be a requirement to participate that they'll have to make changes?

It'll be the intention of the case management. Of course, that's not to say, of course, if the eligible applicant has maximized the benefits, eligibility, they are receiving all the the benefits they're eligible for. They have reduced their income as much as they can and there's not much more to be done. Um, of course they would make those efforts, but if there is nothing more to be done, I suppose there would be nothing more to be done.

Yeah. And this is where I get back to what council member O'Donnell or deputy mayor Donald said. Basically, if you give somebody who is in a long-term deficit, a structured deficit where they're spending more of their income than they should be, if you give them a short-term remedy, at the end of that short-term remedy, which I'm sure they'll appreciate the short-term reprieve, but their circumstance won't be different. In fact, it'll be more difficult because after 2 years of receiving a subsidy and their lifestyle having expanded to accommodate that new revenue, uh because as we do as human beings, we tend to spend to our revenue. Uh so these individuals will have a fiscal cliff that we will be creating for them. To add to some of the comments earlier, it's we might consider our VHAP C2 program. If an applicant applies and the the administrator cannot see that the household will be able to maintain their housing even after the assistant when the assistance ends, they will not award that applicant. Much like that with this program, if the case management and the budgeting that the case managers oversee with the client, if they see that they cannot maintain their housing after the subsidy ends, I don't think they would want to consider that applicant. Of course, the city council couldn't require this is not proposed to be an entitlement program. So, there would be some discretion from the administrator.

This sounds like the how all entitlement programs begin. That's true. Again, there's a great old saying that says the closest thing to immortality is a temporary government program. So, if the if the city council would perform, I would suggest maybe that we might want to take this half million dollars and put it back into our housing fund. And uh you know what? How much was our contribution to the uh national core housing project? Was a half million. It was $500,000. Iion use that as a as a good illustration of what it might cost the city for gap financing for a a development like that.

I think we should consider adding this half million dollars to the housing fund and using it to add to the housing stack for a new senior housing program, which would actually multiply the dollars. Cuz see, we spend this half million dollars, it's gone. But if we contributed it to a senior housing program that leveraged dollars from the state or federal government, if we use this money to attract those like the Grove or National Core housing uh for very low-income seniors, then we could create durable lasting housing for seniors who are truly in economic need. So, I really think what we should do, and I would I'm strongly encouraging uh the council, in fact, I would make a motion. I really think we can do greater good. How how many people live in a national core project?

It's 54 units.

54 units. I think we ought to look to create 50 or more long-term uh housing units for seniors who are very low income. I think we should offer this money. We should put out an RFP and we should use it to attract uh another low-income housing uh for seniors. As I've often said, my grandmother lived for a decade in HUD housing. She earned $400 a month on social security, and I know that that housing was critical to her uh well-being and her dignity. And uh uh I would like to see us create more durable housing for seniors that leverages private sector money, public sector money, uh and federal and state partners like we're doing with some other projects that we've discussed tonight. Uh we should be using this money as a catalyst to attract more money and and create long-term, not just a temporary giveaway program. I would really encourage the council uh to adopt that. I'm going to make a motion that we recommit these funds to our our housing fund and that we uh come back with a conversation about an RFP for senior housing. Council member Fox. Thank you. Um yeah, I'll think about that. That's that's that's interesting. Um, are the section 8 projects, things like the senior housing projects like the Santa Fe senior village, do those also have waiting lists where this could potentially be a stop gap between applying to get into senior housing and being able to officially get into senior housing. Is that are those similar to section 8 where there's a wait list?

Could you rephrase the question? So for a senior that wanted to get into a place like the Santa Fe Senior Village, is there a wait list to get into projects like that? So

if if we did go with a program where we to to bridge section 8, I think that would be another type of if they were on the the waiting list for another type of senior housing. I think that would probably also qualify in my mind. But um okay uh the long rolling periods um I'm I think that the rolling periods make sense. My concern if it was you know 6 months or something would be that if it's an emergency and they're in like the emergency a dire need to potentially losing their home or something like that that that might be tough. Um, I don't know if we would want to do shorter a shorter rolling period or if we'd want to get I mean I don't know that's I just wanted to bring that was a concern I you know I haven't really thought through how to fix that concern necessarily but um that if someone is in emergency need now and they apply for this program and then they have to wait six months for house for you know to potentially be approved that you know kind of might defeat the purpose of of some of that. Um,

council member, directly to your concern, remember we've just authorized $2.5 million for the rescue mission for our VHAP program. So, we do have right now have a fund of $2.5 million. And I think what I what I looked at with this would be a parallel thing to that just for kind of seniors only since that's like a um a a demographic that's that's facing that housing insecurity in a way where on fixed incomes where they would qualify for a lot of these programs like senior housing um like senior housing and like section 8 but you know could potentially not be able to make it toward long enough in their housing to potentially get into one of those programs and I kind of saw this as as a potentially reasonable solution for that. Um, that being said, this is a pilot program and I would want that I I would very much want to gauge the success of any pilot program. Um, I was, you know, I agree with Council Member Melendez that, you know, we'd want to track the data really well and make sure that, you know, if we're going to do this that in two years or whenever we start having data on this that if we we could find out whether the dollars would have potentially done better in a senior housing project or something like that, if we're unable to help more than the 50 people that we would have housed in the senior housing program, I think that would be probably um good information for us on whether or not we wanted to renew this program or ever do something like this. I I do agree that um housing providing housing and thing is typically not a city level kind of thing where we're subsidizing housing for people. I don't know if that's a very common thing across multi many cities but um when it comes to who no matter whose job it is if so if no people aren't doing the job then someone has to pick up the the slack and so you know I don't want to make it a long-term thing where we're doing a

bunch of things that aren't necessarily in the purview of city government where we're unable to do things like you know fund police and fire or something that is within our direct purview to do programs that are not, you know, per se, but uh since this was funded out of we already voted to fund it out of year-end fund balance, you know, I think that to do a pilot program and see how what we can do, I think that makes sense to do to use it for that. So, um I guess that's kind of where I'm on it. I think that the keeping that data well so we know how this program does and if it's having the effects we want and if we if you know and again if this treating it kind of like the rehab funds but um for seniors only makes a lot of sense in my mind and um that's kind of how I would treat success for this program would be to do something similar to that. So um that's it. Council member Contreres. Okay. I'm curious about the comment um regarding the money that we helped um provide more competition in their application for the Santa Fe uh North Santa Fe senior village and uh that that isn't uh probably the best example is that because usually the tiebreaker um that the city provides as a subsidy is usually in excess of a million dollars.

So with the Santa Fe senior village, that was a project that was mostly and I think probably already completely funded. They already right completed their entire funding stack, tax credits, private construction loans, everything. They wanted some contribution from the city. It was pretty nominal at $500,000. That's not generally what we provide as gap financing loans for these kinds of developments. Um, as an example, the Grove as developed by Wakeland, I believe that was closer to 2 million. Um, at 902 Vista Village Drive, that's proposed to be 3.25, right? So, we're usually looking at a few million. $500,000 isn't generally what we would provide as a gap loan for those kinds of developments, which is why I say it's probably not a good illustration of what, right,

can expect to Okay, that's my recollection, too. being on the council since 2018, I've I've seen that uh the the senior village was kind of an anomaly. Yeah.

Um and also, you know, in the other instances like uh in Vista Village, we own the property. So, I I don't even know if we were to have an RFP, we probably would have to first look and have a council discussion about which property we would allow uh as part of this plan. Um and and I don't know if I just don't really see that as a viable option. and the fact that it's been years thus far that we've uh provided the funding that we've gone through plan checks and not one single unit has been built on Vista Village on those two parcels and I don't even know when they will be built. So you know unfortunately this nation is going through some dire straits and because of the global uh decisions and and instability that's happening the repercussions are huge back home here people are really feeling squeezed and you know this demographic of seniors on a fixed income I I just want to highlight that part of the eligibility is that this is a disabled senior so I really don't think it's appropriate to say that we should just have our seniors work. Uh the criteria itself is looking at the most vulnerable. Now, one piece of the criteria that we I think would be, you know, possibly something we could discuss is the second part where um it says head of household who is a disabled senior or has a disabled senior dependent. you know, potentially maybe we just want to zero in head of household who is a disabled senior um as the most critical part uh demographic to reach out to. Um so I I just I find it

really inappropriate to say that, you know, they should just go find housing. I think and you know I also it's not so easy to sell your home and try and figure out where you're going to live again. Um there's a lot of costs that go into selling a home. There's a lot of uh a lot of other decision making that needs to happen. Um, so you know, I think me when I look at Vista, I want Vista to be a place where you buy your forever home or, you know, you find your forever neighborhood and you get to age in place. And I think we have a responsibility because we have access funds to ensure that at least some of our seniors that are disabled that need some help where they can show that after this receiving this type of help that it will bring long-term stability. I think that's the the aim of this program. And so it being a senior rental subsidy program I think makes sense. Uh and so I not hearing a second for um the mayor's motion. I believe council member Melenda's made a motion at the beginning. And so uh council member if you're amendable to all these other points that we've brought up um which is let me just go through it here. expanding from leaseholder um to also homeowners. Uh reducing the the senior defined as 65 plus instead of 70 plus. Um, I do think that having the application period in tranches is just helpful to bring data back because if we're seeing that $125,000

is immediately being used within, you know, a month of applications, that could always come back to the council for future discussion. Uh, so I think that would be a pretty good practice. um including section 8 weight list as an emergency criteria and Okay. And the clarification of disabled seniors and and yes the and the clarification of zeroing in on only head of household who is a disabled senior.

I would accept those amendments to that.

Okay. And then I just um before I before I stop I just want to highlight something. you, Council Member Fox, I understand that you're saying that, you know, potentially it's not within the purview of a city to provide housing, but most cities do provide. So, I would counter that with a myriad of examples of cities that are providing uh housing uh in in a variety of forms. Um because, you know, I think all our our cities around us do that. So, I think, you know, this would potentially fit in line with that. Um, so, uh, Council Member Melendas, do you accept those? Okay. Hearing a yes. That's all I have to say. Thank you,

Deputy Mayor. I'm going to throw you for a loop on this one because the more I think about it, I actually, if you have a uh if you own your home, I don't know if you should qualify for this program. The reason I say that is because it is such a tremendous asset to have, it unfortunately creates a very tough decision. And I appreciate the things you say that it is not that easy because I've sold a home before. I've bought in a home before and I know that it's there's so much that goes into doing all of those things. But if if you are upside down on your mortgage, it's typically a newer thing, right? And it also there are other mechanisms. I think we talked about this on a different program that like you've had to have exhausted everything with the bank and your mortgage company and everything else before you'd even be eligible for this program. And I think the reality is that because if you've owned your home long enough to be in that position, you've probably invested enough to where if you were to sell it, you could I don't want to say easily, but you could take those funds and move them into a position to where you won't have the housing insecurity that exists when you live in that home. It's an unfortunate position to find people in and I agree with you that it is awful. But it it makes me really hesitant when there is such a tremendous asset that they may have that can solve the problem and keep people that otherwise might really need their eligibility in this program. Um it makes it challenging for me to keep homeowners on there. So I don't know if you'd be amendable to that, but I would actually like to see if you own a home

at all. I mean, even even if you own a home because if you've owned it more than 12 years, I mean, you're talking you have so much. You have 20 years equity in that home or 15 years, whatever it might be. Yeah. So, so I would want to keep this strictly to rental assistance. I like all the other changes you made, so I would be supportive of those, but I would like to take homeowners off of it. Council member Contra.

Okay. you know, I I really would prefer to expand, but understanding that uh you bring up, you know, certain concerns. Um how about if because I I think the more information that we get, the better. So, what I would want to know is how many people uh are being turned away because they are homeowners. So, I think that's some of the data that we should get and potentially if we're seeing that that is uh a significant disqualification, I would I just would feel really terrible to not take a look again at trying to expand this program. So, I don't know if that

if you're okay with that, the information to later. Yeah, I'm absolutely okay with that. I think the more information we have, the better. Okay. then I would be I would be okay with that change even though it's not my preference. The uh I think everybody's done there. Uh the average social security disability payments about $1630 a month. So individuals who are disabled is to are we going to use the social security disability definition as far as their income? No. As far as we say they have to be disabled. Are we going to have a definition of disabled? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It'll be according to the SSDI qualifications. Okay. So, we're going to use the SSDI definition of disabled.

Yeah.

So, I mean, we're we're adding $250 to a benefit that the federal government's already providing basically to all uh people through the Social Security program. Um, so I'm going to say let's go ahead and cast our votes, but I'm going to vote against this because uh we're just we're adding it. it it sort of is an entitlement uh because anybody who meets these uh um de this criteria is eligible to receive it. It creates an ongoing financial liability for the city of Vista. It's an expansion of government services in Vista that uh you know uh we expanded government services when we went into emergency housing assistance in the name of solving homelessness. Um, we have not received a lot of information and we never do and we never will receive a lot of information from people who about people who receive uh our emergency housing assistance. We don't really, you know, we get some some stories, but uh I I just think uh this is I don't think it's responsible. Uh I think maybe it was only one project out of three that we can think of where half million was enough. Maybe if we put this money into the housing fund, maybe we could find some more money to go with it and we could get to the $2 or $3 million we need to build a long term. So that's where I'm at on it. That's why I'm not going to support it. So we have a motion to second. Please cast your votes. That motion is adopted with four in favor and one opposed. That'll bring us to our next discussion item. uh consideration of adding a gang detective if any members of the public wish to speak on this item. They may indicate so by using the raise their hand feature, pressing star 9, or submitting a request to speak card. Speakers will be called upon after the presentation. Deputy Mayor O'Donnell asked for the item to be on the agenda, so we'll ask him to introduce it.

Thank you, Mayor. Uh Captain Mail, I don't think I've ever seen you in street clothes, so thank you for being here.

Close enough, right? Uh so this came forward in September 2024. We had actually had a discussion and we had tabled it until after we had just talked about our our budgets and everything from 2025 in the March 2025 meeting. But in 2009, we used to have two gang detectives. We had let one go due to budget cuts and the economy at that point in time. And so when we tabled it, uh we promised to bring it back and have a more thorough discussion. And I think that it's appropriate at this point to do so. Uh I just want to point out for the record that you are not the first captain to request this. uh Captain Boyce or now Commander Boyce had also had discussions with me uh at the time when he was serving Vista as our sheriff's captain. And so uh I wanted to bring it back forward and have that discussion and understand the need for it and potentially bring it forward um or or add it to your staff. Um and then I also just want to point out that our uh safety commission also had unanimously voted to support this item uh back in I believe it was April of 2025. So, uh, I don't know if there's any public comment on this. I'd like to take those first, but then I do have some questions for our captain.

We do have, uh, Sean Marawn that requested to be heard. Is pull that microphone up to your mouth. Thank you. How's that? Yep.

Perfect. Good evening, honorable mayor Franklin, Deputy Mayor, Deputy Mayor O'Donnell, Council Members Contraras, Fox, and Mel Melendez. I'm Sean Marshian, District 2 resident, and I am a retired assistant police chief for the city of Oceanside. I'm here tonight to speak on discussion item D3, consideration for the addition of one gang detective position from the San Diego Sheriff's Office to work in the Vista Station. It is my experience that criminal street gangs are the result of numerous socioeconomic issues placing vulnerable neighborhoods under the control of criminals. I saw firsthand as a gang detective in Oceanside the negative effect these criminal groups had on neighborhoods, the city and the region. People were in fear of their safety and the safety of their loved ones daily. Violence is a tool for the criminal street gangs. I saw it used against the community of Oceanside, including the violent murder of two Oceanside police officers. Gangs were involved in nu in numerous other murders, assaults, and robberies because they use violence to maintain an environment of fear. The resolution of this in Oceanside consisted of a focused and ongoing effort to quell criminal street gang activity through accountability. Holding those responsible for the gang activities required us to have an intimate knowledge of the inner workings of the gangs and develop meaningful strategies to prevent criminal activity. This provided us with the tools to fully enforce the law upon those who are praying on other residents. To be effective, we had multiple detectives assigned to monitor gang activity and develop strategies to address the problem. This meant personnel had to be assigned to this as their primary focus of effort as a team. This aided us in identifying those likely to be involved in criminal activities such as robberies, murders, and human trafficking. From my perspective, there is sufficient criminal street gang activity in Vista to justify an enhancement to staffing in the gang unit. This additional gang detective will increase the effectiveness of gang enforcement in

Vista, keeping everyone safer. I support the addition of a gang detective to the city of Vista. Second detective will make efforts to keep Vista safe, practical, and inc practical and increase effectiveness of the gang unit. Thank you. Thank you, Deputy Mayor. Thank you. Thank you both for being here. Actually, all three of you for being here this evening. Um I I have a bunch of questions for you, so I just like to answer them uh as best you can. If there's information you don't have, please provide it as quickly uh as you can after this meeting. But what is the need for a gang unit detective? Um why why is it necessary to add one?

Absolutely. So just to begin with uh I brought Sergeant Kraton. Uh Sergeant Kraton is a subject matter expert in gang investigations and he has uh filled that role for many many years. Uh so he'll be a good addition to be able to answer specific questions that I might not be able to. Um but back to your question, what is the need for a second gang detective in Vista? Is that the

or why is it necessary to add one at this point? Because gang investigations require a lot of specialized uh investigations that go well beyond what one person can handle. Uh gang investigations uh oftentimes involve very violent crimes, um drug trafficking, uh human trafficking, and for one person, it is it's an avalanche of of tasks that keep that individual from being proactive to keep those uh crimes at bay.

Can you expand on something you just said because that's actually one of my questions. uh relative to drug trafficking and human trafficking. Uh can you tell me a little bit about the existence here in Vista of those two items or those two crimes?

So I can we we have a human trafficking task force uh and they are the entity that would handle human trafficking in the city of Vista with regards to narcotics trafficking and I'm going to use that term loosely. So, uh, narcotics trafficking would generally mean very very large amounts of narcotics, uh, federal charges potentially over state lines. Uh, we deal more with narcotic sales and all of the penal cones, penal code sections related to that. They can be one and the same. Um, moving narcotics is moving narcotics uh, for the sale. Um, and uh, profit of doing such. Uh we do have those types of crimes in Vista. Uh in 2025 uh we had narcotics and sales at uh 56 felony cases in 2025. Um I can't speak right now to the human trafficking uh stats as that is something that our human trafficking task force would handle.

It is prevalent in Vista to the best of your knowledge though. Was that correct? Yes. Thank you. Do you know how many gangs exist in North County? Uh, I'll leave that to Sergeant Kraton, please.

Yeah, speaking predominantely to Hispanic gangs in North County alone, there's over 17. Um, Tortilla Flats, Incinus, Carlsbad, Mllos, Varro, Hidden Hills, Diablo's, Westside, Varro, Fall Brook, Locos, Tri City, Thunder Hills, Mesa, Center Street, uh, Pole, Street Villains. Then St. Marcus, you have BSM Wolfpack, BSM Ghost Town, South Los, you also have Active Vandals, and VHB here in this city. And that's not to include any sort of outlaw motorcycle gangs and their puppet clubs or support clubs as well as other black and gangs that we see in Oceanside and some of the other cities as well as any sort of white pride type gangs as well.

I'm going to ask you a question that should be obvious, but how do you define a gang through law enforcement terms? Uh the California Penal Code actually defines the the term gang and 186.22 two two is how they define it, but in parliament it's essentially three or more persons with a common identifying sign or symbol who engage in a pattern of criminal behavior and claim a turf. And there's there's 33 outlined or enumerated um crimes, if you will, and 186.22 that are qualifying crimes for gang activity. And I would imagine that of those 17 and then all the spillage from the other ones that they probably cross over city borders quite often. So although VHB might be here in Vista, there are probably other gangs that do enter our city limits.

Absolutely. There's gang gangs are transitory. They all claim a particular turf, but there's so much movement um of individuals, gang members going from city to city, whether it's public transportation, private transportation, etc. That um then you get into the narcotics and trafficking aspects where they are going through each other's turf. And there's a reasonable expectation as a gang member to respond accordingly if they see a rival within their turf. Thank you. Um, how do you compare this request or our our our agency to other agencies surrounding? So, does San Marcos have four gang unit detectives? Does Oceanside have I mean, whatever the the criteria might be that you want to define it, but how would you compare us to neighboring cities and agencies?

Yes, absolutely. So, uh, the Escanido Police Department, they have two gang detectives, and in 2025, they, uh, provided an approximate number of 22 cases that those two investig investigators handled. The Carlsbad Police Department, they have two gang investigators and they reported 33 cases. The Oceanside Police Department, they have four gang investigators and they reported 26 cases. Uh the city of San Marcos, they have two gang investigators and they reported 58. And how many did we report again? We have obviously one gang investigator and we had 50.

Wow. Okay. Is it possible rather than adding a new detective to just take an existing deputy and move them into this position? Uh, good question. Uh, no, because, uh, to put it plainly, I can't wave my wand and take a Vista get deputy and put him in that role. So, our department has very specific policies and procedures related to the testing and selection for specialized units. So if there were to be a vacancy within SNGT that is advertised departmentwide uh deputies are able to test for that if they meet the minimum qualifications. After that test they are placed on an eligibility list based on how they did in that process and then they are interviewed and selected on those terms. Um, it's also important to note that SNGT detectives are managed through our narcotics and gang division. So that is a separate chain of command from myself. So they have their own sergeant, lieutenant, captain, and commander within that narcotics and gang division.

And then if if you're an active gang member, how does one get put on a list as an active gang member? So, the the notion of gang intelligence files, which I'm I'm assuming you're referring to, it requires a level of um recording, if you will, there's a there's five criteria with our department. Um that's essentially statewide that indicates that if somebody is engaging in in gang related behavior, um once they have met three of those, there's three instances of gang related behavior, not to include solely being in a gang in a gang area. Um but once they meet those three um instances then they would be eligible to be um documented on a gang intelligence file and then depending on how long they are continue to engage in uh these behaviors or um meet the criteria if you will they would remain on that list until they hit a drop off period of about 5 years if they don't engage in anything.

So after five years of no activity they would then be removed from that list. Correct. Yeah. And uh for your edification as well, the the notion of a gang intelligence file is not the sole factor involving um the notion of being able to have a gang enhancement on a criminal charge. It's a entirely separate entity that the district attorney's office would still be able to move forward or even not file on depending irrespective of their gang intelligence record if you and so and you said there's how many cases are in front of our current detective at the moment

in 2025 uh he handled 50 cases uh for 2026 I could give you an approximate uh so he as one which was a stabbing uh which required um warrants on three cell uh five phones, social media, data call records and a residential search warrant. Uh there is also another case that stemmed from a vandalism um with an arrest warrant issued a robbery theft, an assault with a deadly weapon uh which has required five search warrants, um multiple warrants, arrest warrants. There's also an illegal firearms and drug sales case. There's a stabbing There is a a fourth waiver narcotics and gun arrest and the rest move into 2025 cases. So what would the average case load be then for an individual detective would you say? Cuz I know I heard you rattle off all the numbers. I didn't do the quick math on cases versus uh number of detectives within that agency. Uh just speaking to San Marcos where I used to work as well as um talking with Detective Stewart, I would say the average case for the San Marcos Vista um gang detectives would be anywhere between 25 to 50 assigned cases. Each case gets triaged and you have to decide where you want to put your energy and effort into unfortunately. Um and with speaking with the detectives in San Marcos, they average about eight to nine search warrants in various capacities per case. And that's just writing the warrants. it's not actually reviewing the records, which if you do a social media search warrant, you could get um upwards of a thousand plus pages of data that you have to then comb through. And

often times these warrants or these investigations are overlapping. And with you often solve multiple crimes by, you know, you may be investigating vandalism, but next thing you know, you've actually got evidence about a stabbing case that you may either are aware of or even unaware of. So there's a lot of overlap that um you're essentially triaging if you have one detective. You're you're picking and choosing what the the new ape is of the day. So just explain to me in the most layman terms you can how does this make us safer by adding another gang unit detective? What does that do for our community? Why what will it do to benefit us?

So it frees up the investigations. Um, basically what's happening is we have one person who is being bogged down and what that's leaving it's leaving uh the enforcement. So the GET the GET team they work gang street level enforcement. Um they're not investigators. There's a very there's a distinction there. Um they do not have the training to be detectives. They are deputies. Uh so they are out there being proactive with contacting individuals and actually in many cases creating cases for this one detective. So what happens is uh this detective gets bogged down. And I will tell you from 2011 until today we have had we've had eight different investigators in that position which is not beneficial to the unit. That's a unit where individuals need to stay long term because of the things you learn and the the trainings you go to and the people that you get to know that operate in these criminal uh organizations, you have to stay for an extended period of time. And that's what deputies and detectives want to do. They want to stay in these positions. But the detectives in the detective in Vista over all of these years, they've let left in less than two years because of the burnout to go to other places where they would have a partner. Yeah, I mean what 16 17 years they've been operating on their own. So I can imagine that there's quite heavy burnout on that. Uh I just want to make sure and see if I have any other questions that I missed

and I don't believe I do. Um Serge Kraton, I really appreciate you being here as well. Uh the I know that we have like the Rise Above program. We've we've adopted a lot of social programs within the city to really target our youth to try and build a bridge between not just our deputies, but our fire agencies, first responders, and our community to try and stem and stop the flow uh of gang activity moving forward as these individuals get older and uh become members of the community. So, or or more ingrained in the community. But in my mind, it cannot just be that sole focus of programs that will prevent gang activity. And while I think that it is not one or the other, but both combined, it's very necessary that we have programs that are existing currently and we continue to fund those programs while also actively making sureing or making sure that our our deputy force is where it needs to be as far as a gang unit detective, especially after 16 17 years of operating as one. And I can only imagine that gang activity has grown over that time period. So, uh, I made a promise a long time ago that, uh, if there was a need, whether it was equipment, uh, mental health resources, uh, training, or if it was an additional deputy, so long as you could justify it and explain to me what the need was for our city, then I would always be happy to support you. So, at this time, I will make the motion to approve an additional gang unit detective uh, onto our contract.

Thank you, Deputy Mayor. I'm pleased to second that. Um this is a need that the department brought to us and I want to say thank you to you captain mailin but also thank you to captain uh now commander boyce for initiating this information. You know we don't uh have a lot of awareness as council members about the command structure and the uh detailed work that all of our sheriff's deputies do. So when you bring these needs to us it's very critical and want to invite you always to bring these needs to us and share them and educate us. Uh is that 50 cases that we had last year is that pretty uh typical on an annual basis?

Uh yes sir. So in 2024 I believe we reported that uh he took 40 cases and pushed 10 of the 10 additional cases to the area investigators. Uh which back then I explained that that's very detrimental to those cases uh for two reasons. they're not trained and specialized to work in that gang investigative field, but also that takes them away from very important cases like domestic violence, um, you know, uh, residential burglaries that they that they typically handle. So, we like to keep them in their specialties, uh, for the benefit of the community. And it sounds like I heard you say that we're the only North County city that has only a single gang investigator. Yes.

Yeah. Well, that's a pretty telling information. So, uh, to me, you've demonstrated the need very clearly, and I just am grateful that you brought it to us. So, thank you, Council Member Melendez.

Yes, Sergeant Kraton and Captain Mail, thank you for being here today. Thank you, uh, Deputy Mayor O'Donnell for bringing forward this discussion. It's a very interesting topic. I've grown up in Vista my whole life, and I'd say that the public understanding of gang violence and activity is uh very sheltered. Um, most people are not aware of what an investigation even looks like and so I think that this is some helpful civic education for us today. Um, I understand your request for a specialized personnel to help to manage this case load that goes beyond what one person can handle. And um, I understand that this has been the case since we lost that uh, position in 2009. Is that correct? Correct.

So, how have these activities been handled now between 2009 and today?

Um, just as Sergeant Kraton said, they're they're being triaged and the investigator has to decide which is the most important, which they're all very important, but he has to choose which cases he can dedicate his time to. Um, and I think it's actually very telling when, um, you look at Escandido, for example. Escanido has two gang detectives and they only had 22 cases in 20 25. Um, another one, Oceanside with four gang detectives, they reported 26 cases. So, I I think that we're seeing that the agencies that have more a more robust gang unit. It actually brings those that case load down because it's a case closure thing.

Um, case closure, but also having the ability to be out and be proactive. um because one single person, we would never send a single gang investigator out by themselves to conduct surveillance or to contact anybody or to do any follow-up work by themselves. They're always having to pull someone from another unit to go with them. Okay. Thank you for clarifying that. And the the numbers that you listed for the various cities in our region, um those were numbers of is that the active case load for 2025, 2026? 2025.

Okay. And so that's a reflection of the active cases, not a percentage of those that are resolved. Is there any way for you to illustrate to us how much that case load has increased with the lack of an additional gang detective? I'm sorry, I don't know that I inter can you please repeat what? So um you might not have the numbers in front of you right now and that's okay. In 2025, city of uh Vista gang detective had case load of 50. Um was that case load lower in previous years?

I don't have anything before 2024. I know that he had 40 in 2024, but like I said, 10 were moved to area investigations. So he is there were essentially the same amount of gang cases or case numbers pulled in 2024 as there was in 2025. this in 2025, he just chose to keep all 50 rather than to push some off to the area investigators. Okay. Um I had a question about narcotic sales. Um you listed 56 narcotic sales um arrests. Was that arrests in Vista? Yes.

Okay. And what percentage of the those were gang related? All of those? Um I don't have the breakdown as to the which were gang related. I just have the total number of narcotics sales felony arrests. Okay. So we had 56 narcotic sales. We um you know I would love to know of those types of crimes

what percentage of those crimes are gang related. Um because I think that the common perception is that people are uh who sell drugs are being recruited to sell drugs by gangs. And so there's two things that can happen, right? We can have information maybe going forward about our um uh illegal drug sales, right? And I would love to get that information back about what you know what do our our uh narcotic sales uh look like on you know is it uh gang related um and then otherwise we don't have that information. So I would like to know that and I think that that's an important question for prevention that deputy mayor O'Donnell was speaking about. um people who may or may not be recruited by gangs to sell drugs. Um those are folks that would benefit from some kind of intervention, especially since this is um a socioeconomic uh circumstance that they might find themselves in selling drugs and being recruited by gangs to do so. So, I would be really interested of the folks that um you know were arrested for selling narcotics in Vista. How many were actually recruited by gangs? That would be very helpful. Um the number of gangs in Vista, 17. Um I really appreciate all the questions, Council Member O'Donnell, in defining a gang. um three or more persons with common symbols and turf for the purpose of crime. Um that really got me thinking about the gang intelligence file and I'd like to ask a few questions about that. For the gang intelligence file, is this just surveilling of the community or does

this require someone to be charged with a crime in order to be added to this list? They they both are part of the five criteria if you will. So of the criteria itself, you have a person who is self-admitting to be a gang member is one of them. You if you have a tested reliable confidential informant who's providing information indicating that somebody's a gang member. If you have an individual who is arrested with other gang members and committing crime and then you have the wearing gang clothing or throwing up gang signs in a gang area. And I'm trying to remember the other one was or no? I don't

That sounds like four or five. So, do you have to meet all criteria or can you just be seen in gang clothing and be added to this list? That's what I'm saying. So, there's there's a total of three instances, separate instances, separate days, if you will, where you have to be engaging in behavior. And so just being in a gang area wearing, we'll just say a San Diego Padre shirt, right, which is claimed by a lot of North County gangs, but you're in VHB territory. That itself, doing that three times would not get you into a gang intelligence file. You cannot just have a location or an association like that being enough to put you on the intelligence file. You would have to actually meet the other um the other criteria at least one other time.

Okay. And which other criteria? I'm hoping it's related to actually committing a crime. That's what I was enumerated. Yeah. So, you have either the admission or the committing gang activity, the the the crime itself with another gang member or committing a a crime and for the purpose of promoting the gang or having an informant indicating that that person is a gang member. Okay. So, there is an instance where someone can be added to this list and not have committed a crime and that is if they are at three points maybe wearing uh a tire. they could be um uh listed by an informant um and then that just has to happen one other time. So

correct. So there could be an instance where someone is added to the gang intelligence file without committing a crime. That is correct. Okay. Thank you so much. And so I'm guessing that that's a big part of the investigation um and the intelligence seeking. Um is that correct? What does an investigation look like for a gang detective? If you could kind of break down those operations and activities for us a little bit more.

It really depends on the crime itself. But if we'll just take a u we'll take a vandalism case for example. Say Detective Stewart gets a vandalism case involving VHB graffiti spray paint on the side of a liquor store. Um he's predominantly just going to be going out looking for video surveillance and things of that variety because you're kind of limited. Now if it's a murder, a homic or a manslaughter, shooting at a dwelling, things of that variety, then maybe you're going to be doing cell phone decor cell phone record um search warrants, you're going to be doing other surveillance warrants. are going to be out on the street looking for independent witnesses because as we know with gang crimes, witnesses are very few and far between for fear of retaliation. So, it's a lot of electronic um attempts to identify individuals or or social media returns.

Okay. Okay. So, one of the things we haven't talked about yet is the fiscal impact of this item. Could I get some information from the city manager regarding the fiscal impact for hiring and additional personnel?

So, I checked with the finance department to confirm that we have sufficient budgets in uh sufficient funding in this year's budget to accommodate the startup costs of 4 represent the report here 435 roughly,000. Um, so if the direction is given tonight, this would likely be included in a quarterly report to come back to council for this fiscal year to pay for the startup costs ongoing next year. We have sufficient funding to fund the position. What's the yearly cost for the position? Annual cost is 357,000. It's a change.

Okay. Um, I I really appreciate you both being here. We're in a unique position. If John, our city manager, comes to the city council and requests additional personnel for any other department, um, you know, he is kind of the the sole mouthpiece for that and being able to advocate for um our our city of Vista teams regarding what their personnel needs are, right? Whether that's public works, any other department that you have. Um and and we hold uh our city manager to the same expectation, right, of being able to prove uh and and demonstrate the need um as we would, right, with you being here as well. Um however, the difference in the relationship is that you're a a contractor for the city of Vista. The San Diego County Sheriff's Department um provides a contract to the city of Vista. We do not have authority over the San Diego County Sheriff's Department. um you know, we are glad that you are here and we want to make sure that you have the resources that you need to um ultimately create a safer vista. Um but you do have some other authorities that you uh work under. And so I'm curious to know um what does your sheriff, Kelly Martinez, think about this need that you have and how is the San Diego County Sheriff's Department prepared to equip you with the personnel and resources that you need?

Uh well, I don't speak I can't speak for Sheriff Martinez. Uh I have pushed this request up my chain of command and they are supportive of it. Um the last part of your question is how are they going to support this need in how in what terms? I don't understand.

Um you know is there an allocation that we can seek from the San Diego County Sheriff's Department? Um I think deputy mayor asked a good question. Can someone be promoted into this position if this is such a high level important position? Are the there efficiencies that we can seek um to make sure that this position is covered since it's important for you to be covered? Um what are some of the other ways that um you may have sought to get this position covered outside of funding from the city of Vista and amending our contract? I have not sought any other means to fund this position.

Okay. Um my last comments would be just that um going forward with a position like this I think uh could be an opportunity for us to get more data and information. Um the council is very proactive with our programming and we have utilized crime data and information to improve our um community programs in the past whether that be our street lighting program. You all have helped us demonstrate that by providing street lights in the community, we're able to reduce crime. Um, you've helped provide us with crime maps to get a sense of where are the most important areas where we need infrastructure. Um, we've been able to provide youth scholarships. Um, we're doing graffiti abatement programs. Right? So, um, my expectation going forward is that, um, you know, seeing that there might be support for this position, how are we able to, um, utilize this partnership to strengthen our prevention programs that we have, uh, oversight on? Um, we do not have oversight over the San Diego County Sheriff's Department. It's a complaint I get from the public a lot. We do get a number of complaints about the San Diego County Sheriff's Department. Um, and we do not have our own police department. And I explained that to folks and I let them know that we want to have a positive working relationship with our San Diego County Sheriff's Department. Um, but ultimately we are the city of Vista. The sheriff is the sheriff of San Diego. Um, and we're going to do our best to uh write a contract that meets the public need. But maybe what we could do going forward is get more information. You know, I want to learn more about these narcotic sales. I want to understand how people end up selling drugs and then maybe we can take a more proactive approach with a little bit more data. Um, and you can help us get there too because I think we all have a common goal of reducing crime in our

communities and improving public welfare. So, I appreciate you being available to answer questions and for uh, you know, being uh, in enduring in these conversations because we have had a lot of conversations. You were also heard by the um the safety commission as well. Um did we get a formal recommendation from the safety commission? Okay, thank you so much for that note and that's the end of my questions for now. Thanks, Council Member Contrarus.

Yeah, thank you for being here and for answering all our questions. Um, you know, one of the things that I look at is, uh, I just pulled up Argus and I'm taking a look at January 2009. uh you know that year um we're looking at you know a crime index and that exceeding 223 um or abouts that and the crime index continued to go lower and now for March of 2026 we're looking at 94. Um can you explain to me how our crime has decreased uh with just one gang detective?

How it has decreased? Yeah. Is there why is it that our crime is decreasing when we have less resources uh for uh investigating our gangs? Well, I would say that the gang investigations is a very small piece of the pie. It's a it's a big problem. Uh, criminal street games are a huge problem, but it's a small piece of the pie. We have so many other deputies, so many other programs that we have working that help push that crime rate down. I don't think you could narrow it down just to the gang investigations as to why uh crime is low.

Yeah. I I mean, I would just be curious to prioritize um a list of uh prioritized um types of officers. uh you know, we have a variety of um specializations that we contract. Uh it sounds like, you know, you're prioritizing a second gang detective because a case load, and I understand that that case load seems to be double or more than double what we're seeing in our other cities. However, there is this um this conflict that I'm seeing where our crime is lowered. So I it's just difficult uh for me to make an annual budgetary accommodation when on the case load I see the need but on the material reality that we're seeing in our stats there seems to be not a ton of congruency there. So I just have a little bit of trouble with that. And I will say that, you know, we are owed a lot of money right now um by the San Diego County. I don't know if it's the county or if it's the sheriff's department, but I have not seen a dime of that money come in. It's in excess of $200,000 every year for the amount of emergency services and labor that we're providing to the county jail. and I would really like to see us made whole so that we could fund the necessary crime tools and strategies that you're bringing before us. Uh I I think that it's a very lopsided uh relationship right now. So, you know, I would make a substitute motion um that

we are made whole for the last five years of services provided to the county jail facility so that we can move forward with implementing additional strategies that are recommended by by you as a captain or future captains. uh because I I really want to be made whole for those dollars. That's something that the taxpayers really deserve to be made whole. So, I'll put that as a substitute motion, but I do have some additional questions. Uh you know, gangs are not restricted to one jurisdiction. So, when we're looking at a gang detective, are they going to be only serving the city of Vista within its boundaries? Can you explain what that looks like?

Yes, absolutely. So, yeah, they have priority to work gang violence in the city of Vista. However, if that crime moves outside of Vista's city limits, of course, they would pursue the investigation outside of the city, which oftentimes happens. We oftent times have Oceanside Police Department in the city of Vista um serving search warrants and following up on crimes that happen in Oceanside because crime does travel um all over North County and all over the county of San Diego. Um, but no, they they are there to handle gang investigations that originate in the city of Vista.

Okay. Yeah. I just, you know, because there is um a kind of uh, you know, gray area as to jurisdiction, right? when we're looking at pursuing any kind of gang activity and crime related to gang activity. Um I I just really think that this should be a partnership uh with the county. I think the county should uh pay if this is, you know, such an extraordinary need. Uh, I definitely would love the county to participate in some cost sharing with the city because I do anticipate, you know, our sphere of influence includes Bonszel and Fbrook and a lot of the unincorporated area and I know that we do, you know, our officers are out there as well. So, I would just really love to see some cost sharing uh when it comes to this. If I may, um, sure.

What the one issue that we see with cost sharing per se is if the county

projects us or pledges a certain amount of money to a position and it's a split um position, the county depending on what is going on fiscally in the county or um anything with personal movement could then withdraw that position. So ultimately all the benefit that this detective would bring to the city of Vista could be withdrawn at any moment. Whereas if it's a contract funded position, it is a whole different level of commitment to that position where there will always be a person in that seat to do the investigations. We see a lot of u movement when it comes to just um county funded positions because the whim of the department could change at any moment and and move a guy from or guy from spot A to spot B because of that. I mean, would we be able to have I guess this is a a question for city manager, city attorney and or both? Um, are we able to have a contracted position where we have an allocation from the county that it's there's a cost sharing to this position? Would that be a type of contract that we're able to pursue?

Yes, that's something we could include in our contract if the county was partner to that agreement.

Yeah. I mean, I just I think that if this is such a critical need that we should get some funding from the county, especially because our taxpayers have not been made whole for years and years of services that our Vista Fire Rescue has provided to the county facility. Um, where we also see in excess of of 2.4,000 uh interactions with folks that are experiencing homelessness. It's one of the huge hot spots, the main hot spot for Vista Fire Rescue. Um there's a lot of issues in that area and I just I again I want to be able to fund the tools necessary to drive our crime rate down. However, there is a financial imbalance that has been present between the city of Vista and the county for a very long time. And I seriously want to be made whole of that because we at this point would have enough money if we were made whole to fund a second uh gang detective for a very long time. You know, I would love if Even if we're able to say, you know, for two or three years, we're going to take a look at working with the county, having some cost sharing for this position, uh, and then seeing what the metrics are, uh, that come about adding this additional resource and and you know, what would the metrics of success be? Uh can you can you explain to us what we what you would consider a success?

Yeah, absolutely. So, a reduction in cases overall, a reduction in violent crime, uh a reduction in gang crime, um an overall feeling of safety in certain parts of Vista, um with relation to gang activity. Um I think that the the numbers would would tell the story if if we had that second spot if we see these numbers drop. I would really want to see that information because I don't think that that is information that's really ever given to the council when we're talking about adding personnel uh and seeing what the metrics of success are intended to be and then seeing if the outcome meets those metrics of success because if they're not, the taxpayers were funding uh in excess of $300,000 annually. uh a resource that's not getting to the results that we anticipated. So, I think that's really important for the council to take into consideration because right now what I'm hearing is that we're going to have a second gain detective in perpetuity. And I just question what the return on investment is. And so if we're not seeing that, and the only way that we would see that is specialized reporting to the council, maybe in a public forum, maybe it's in our weekly update, but that that's really critical for us because, you know, in in seeing that this discussion was going to come before the council, I spoke a lot to folks in in my district, District 1, which is one of the districts that would I would just assume compared to all the other districts that we might see more gang activity. And

maybe I'm wrong, but in speaking to my constituents, they really question how much gang activity is out there because we may have x amount of cases, but how many of them when reviewed ended up being a valid case or not? And so I think that's important to know as well. So those are, you know, those are some of the questions that I have. Um, but again, I just want to be I want the taxpayers to be made whole so that we can move forward with having funding for additional uh strategies to just keep the community safe. Um, but those those outcomes uh they need to be quantified because this is a it's a lot of money. Thank you,

Council Member Fox.

Thank you. Um, I'll start by just saying I am supportive of this measure. I was supportive last year when we talked about it and so I'm still supportive of it. Um, right as a new council member, one of the very, very first things I did was I had a meeting with then Captain Mail and asked him if there was one thing that would help the department uh operate better here in Vista, what would it be? And he told me a gang detective. That was the first thing that I heard when I came into it. And um the things that he told me were you know that um most city most cities have two and the reason for that is it's important that they have a partner and that in institutional knowledge of when one leaves they bring their entire you know the history of them working here with them and so the person coming into it doesn't necessarily have all they might have the files but they don't have the experience of with the the different uh organizations and um people within them and and have that knowledge set. So, uh, it makes a lot of sense to me that this is one of the positions, if any, that you'd want to make sure you had a partner on and that if it is something that is, um, and if our case load is two to four times higher than pretty much any other city in our area, I mean, it just doesn't make sense that, you know, I mean, we see we see a high case load. We see one person. I I you know, it makes a lot of sense to me that we would give them the support that they need to do the job that they're doing. And if if there wasn't a need for it, they wouldn't have two or four times the case load that our surrounding cities do. So, um I mean it just makes sense to me. We also set aside money to do this in our year in fund balance. Uh and so, you know, we we had this conversation and and thought it was worth funding. So, um you know, I think that with all that u being said, I mean, I agree that I I think that we should have that conversation with the county about um the money that we're that we're not getting made up made whole on because of the jail. But I'm definitely not going to um stop a need now for a conversation that we have to have with a different

organization. So um I'm supportive of it. If I you already had a second, correct? Okay. So um that's it for me. Thanks, Deputy Mayor. I actually appreciate the points that were brought up by both council members regarding uh cost relative to staff. So, I guess my first question is, is it a regular occurrence that uh the San Diego County Sheriff's would provide either a cost sharing benefit and or just a pay the entire cost for a gang unit detective to a contract city?

So, the county provides a sergeant who supervises the SNGT unit here in Vista. Um, but no, the contract cities, they pay for their SNGT detectives. Okay. Do we know how much we are currently short or what the shortfall is between the services we've provided at the jail and what we've received? I was informed by the um fire chief that they are not paying us what we're due, but I don't have the number. We're going to report back to council in May or June.

So, I'm I'm not willing to hold this item back for that purpose. But what I would say is I like the idea of either taking the monies owed every year at the end of the year and incorporating that into the payment or less thereof each year for the contract. So that way we don't have to run into this situation again where we're not being made whole year after year. Uh no, but that is going to be something that I would ask in the contract when we come back for these negotiations, which is next year, I believe. Correct.

Um and I will also make a call to uh Kelly Martinez. So, um, okay, Captain Mail, uh, Sergeant Kiteon, I really appreciate you being here tonight. Um, I appreciate all the council, uh, questions and comments as well, and I'll look forward to the vote when it comes up.

I won't uh hold us up. I just want a couple more thoughts. Uh, number one, I have seen gang crime uh absolutely terrorize neighborhoods both in North and South Vista. Uh, and I I like the idea of having enough gang detectives to uh, you know, we've seen a rise recently. I've seen a rise personally in VHB tags in Vista. And I've asked our public works team, whether it's on private or public property, to immediately paint them out or remove them. I don't want gangs to think that they own our city uh because of our inaction. Um this is a real serious issue for uh really most of our lower income neighborhoods are suffering the consequences of these crimes more than our other neighborhoods. So I think we need to do this. Uh it is up to incorporated cities to provide for their own policing. Um we made that decision when we decided to incorporate to acquire the cost of our own policing. uh we took revenue from the county when we did that that had previously belonged to the county. When we incorporated that revenue became ours under state law and one of the obligations of an incorporated city is to uh provide for their policing. So, you know, I would love to get by the way I've said before and I completely agree uh we absolutely during the contract negotiation should bring up and discuss and we should demand we should present the county with an invoice. We haven't done it yet. Uh I personally will take it to the board of supervisors. Uh our uh our unpaid EMS response to the jail should be compensated. Uh we're providing a valuable service to the county and it's only fair. Uh otherwise, you know, it's a reverse transfer of money. But this is a separate account and this is a

pressing need. Uh I will repeat things I've said before that I haven't said in a number of months or the last couple of years which is you know we didn't significantly grow the number of deputies that served our city when our population went from 80,000 to 100,000. We are still significantly below we're below uh you know.9 deputies per thousand residents. The average throughout the state of California is two sworn officers per thousand residents. We have a small uh but mighty contingent of deputies here in Vista. Um we do receive the benefit of uh are are you the sergeant that uh supervises all the gang detectives throughout the county?

Uh I supervise the North County Regional Gang Task Force.

So we receive your services uh as a and that's one of the examples of support that we receive by virtue of our contract with the sheriff's department. Uh we we do Captain Mail supervises the policing in the sphere of influence as well as Fbrook, but we're only paying for remind me is it 86 right now sworn deputies? I think it's 86 sworn deputies. Uh but you have uh remind me you have about 95 uh sworn deputies that serve. So the county is providing the law enforcement services and uh from time to time those deputies interchangeably provide services in the city of Vista. So uh the county is paying its share of policing the unincorporated areas. Uh we're just sharing a a facility and a and a captain. Um so anyway, uh Council Member Contrarus.

Yeah. Yeah. You know what? I just wanted to clarify. Um, so our our new contract or our contract is up. So, we have to have new contract negotiations and that's next year, correct? Yes. Okay. And, um, just clarifying what the motion is on the floor. Uh, is this to, uh, supersede uh, the new contract and add a second gang detective prior to the end of that contract? That would be correct. That is correct. Okay. Okay. Um and then we set aside, wasn't it $200,000 or how much was it

for the law enforcement personnel reserve? It was 500,000. 500. Okay. Okay. Oh, yeah. because we took from it was we were looking at took from uh I believe it was um traffic safety or uh the traffic money that we had set aside. There was a million of traffic money set aside. It was taken from that.

Yeah. Okay. I just have a really hard time um with this because the number one thing I hear from my constituents is that they want to see more enforcement for traffic violations. And so I would even be more amendable to having, you know, two um motor deputies. But um okay. Well, thank you so much. If you want to add two motor deputies to this gang detective, I would I would certainly would you would you support that?

I wouldn't swap, but if you wanted to add them to this um captain, could you use two more uh motor officers to do traffic enforcement? I could use an army, but I won't uh I won't say Okay, I won't put you on the spot because you haven't had time to prepare for that. But if there I'm not hearing support, but would you would you want to do that? Would you want to add three officers right now?

No, I think that we I would rather have two motor deputies than a second gang detective because I think the need and what I hear from my constituents is that that's what they want. I have I have not had any constituents come forward to me and say that they need or want to see another gang detective, but it's constant that they want more enforcement of uh the rules of the road. So, I think it would be more beneficial to have two motor deputies and a second gang detective. Um, but you know, that's just where I stand and what I hear as feedback from my constituents.

So, those motor deputies are some of the only deputies that uh what I forget we recoup about Yeah,

we recoup about a fifth of what we pay them in something like that. Maybe it's a quarter. So, uh they're they're some of the deputies that are the best value of the taxpayer and people really do want it. So, uh Deputy Mayor, would you want to add two motor deputies? We could use them. It took us a year and a half to find the budget to add this one detective. I am I am willing to maybe at the in a future discussion talk about motor deputies because to the point that uh the council member is making, I do hear a lot about red light running, speeding, uh and all of those things in the neighborhoods. So, I'm you do you know that I'm open to if there's a need and we can and we can justify it, I'm open to it. I'm just not going to attack it out of this and turn this into a $ 1.5 million uh motion on my end.

Okay. How about would you uh agree to provide direction to bring that back? I actually would pro agree to provide direction to bring that back. Fantastic. Okay, we got a motion to second. Please cast your votes. That's approved with four in favor and one opposed. That will bring Thank you very much, Captain Sergeant and Lieutenant. Thanks for sitting through our long conversation tonight. Thank you. Appreciate it. Keep up the good work.

Yes. Thanks for keeping us safe out there. Okay, that'll bring us to our next discussion item regarding the licensing. This is D4. Licensing of cannabis related uses. If any member of the public wish to speak on this item that may indicate so by using the raise their hand feature by pressing star9 or submitting request to speak card. Speakers will be called upon after the presentation. Council member Melendez asked for this to be on the agenda, so we'll ask her to introduce it. Yes. Moving on to a legal drug sale discussion. Great segue.

Uh you can't make this up. Okay. So, tonight we're going to talk about licensing of cannabis related uses. Um thank you so much to uh city manager and uh city attorney's office for assisting me in this process as well as others. I've spoken to operators of um of cannabis businesses here in Vista. I've spoken to the president of the um California Cannabis Industry Association. And um this is a a you know economic uh opportunity in Vista. cannabis has provided um such an increase to our tax revenues that um we've been able to really transform as a city um and and we're leaving other cities in the dust. So, I think that we've really modernized and properly regulated this cannabis industry, but I have found that there are some gaps. Um, and so in support of the industry and um in an effort to bring the community around good regulation and safe access to cannabis, I wanted to bring forward uh this item. So, we'll start with the first slide. Um this is a discussion on the cannabis licenses allowed in the city of Vista. But we should start by discussing uh the cannabis licenses allowed by the state of California. And this is according to the department of cannabis control. There are six main categories of licenses that are allowed in California. Cultivation, distribution, manufacturing, testing, laboratory, retail, and event organizers. And although these are the license types that are permitted by the state of California, these licenses cannot be allowed in the city of Vista unless um we write them into our municipal code. So let's go ahead and move on to the

next slide and examine uh what licenses are allowed by the city of Vista. So we don't just have a blanket approval of hey whatever the state allows we allow. We actually have some more rigid regulations than the state of California. So according to the city of Vista municipal code, we do yes allow for cultivation. We have a maximum of three licenses and the operation is limited to the business park. Again with distribution we have a maximum of two licenses limited to the business park. Manufacturing a maximum of two limited to the business park. And testing laboratory there is no maximum um but it is limited to the business park. retail, we have a maximum of 11 licenses and those are regulated by measure Z. Finally, we have an event organizer um license that is actually a temporary use permit um and we have issued one of those historically. Um so, a common question that comes up from the public uh is what about on-site cannabis consumption? So, we allow for all these different uses um but why don't we have a cafe? Why don't we have a lounge? We have plenty of, you know, bars and breweries and places to drink alcohol. Um, what about adults that want to use cannabis um safely and on site at an establishment? Well, on-site cannabis consumption at an establishment, such as a lounge or cafe falls under retail licenses. In the city of Vista, retail licenses are regulated by Measure Z. Measure Z, as we know, was passed in 2018, and it does not allow for on-site consumption or the operation of cannabis lounges. So, a reform to Measure Z, which allows for the operation of cannabis lounges, would require a ballot measure and a vote of the public. So, I wanted to provide a little bit of that

education and background um that uh even if it were the will of the council to approve these types of licenses, uh we actually would have to go back to the public and ask them for this. So, that's one component to licenses. So, continuing our discussion, um when it comes to the area that the city council has control over, that would be our other licenses, right? Non- retail licenses. Um, and I believe we have limitations to our current distribution licenses. So, distribution operations, you know, this is a a sensitive conversation. I I think I've spoken to a lot of folks about it. Um, and sometimes when we think about the distribution of marijuana, there's kind of evoking very Hollywood thing. Um, but there's actually some very simple operations that occur for distribution within this industry. So distribution operations include um the ability to move cannabis and cannabis products between cultivation, manufacturing or distribution premises to move finished cannibal cannabis goods into retail premises to provide storage services to other licenses or lences and to arrange for the testing of cannabis goods. So distribution operates um really in that in between between manufacturing. It provides a space for proper testing. So distribution is really important for actually getting testing done and then it makes its way onto the retail floor. But distribution licenses in California allow for more than storage arrangement of testing and the transport of cannabis. Next slide. Um, cannabis packaging is also included in distribution operations. This is according to the Department of Cannabis

Control uh medical and adult use cannabis regulations from January 2026. um reads that a licensed distributor may package, repackage, label, and relabel cannabis in the form of dried flour, including pre-rolls for retail seller sellers uh retail sale. Uh retailers currently are prohibited from packaging and branding products in house. So I want to make a little illustration. Um if a retailer uh who is really ultimately a connoisseur, right, just like uh some of our brewers might be, if they want to make a custom blend and they want to take um some quality pre-ested cannabis and package it into a custom blend and put their brand and their label on it like a a bakery or a brewery might do um our local Vista cannabis retailers cannot do that. Um they are prohibited from packaging branded products inhouse and the reason for that is because our distribution licenses are limited to the business park specific plan. So we can go to the next slide. Our current distribution licenses are limiting industry and innovation in Vista. Restricting distribution licenses to the business park specific plan limits operations and opportunities for the cannabis industry in Vista. And I'd love to share some thoughts on how expanding distribution licenses to retail environments improves the industry here locally. This would allow for our um local business operators to manage existing security costs. The

state of California outlines rigorous security requirements and the city of Vista does as well. But by putting these two licenses under the same roof, um you are able to manage those existing security costs, which I've heard from operators is a large part of the cost is security. um you're still, you know, um concerned about the security of those goods, right? But you don't have to pay for two separate warehouses essentially to hold hold those goods. Another reason uh that um you know we we should want to change distribution licenses to be um beyond the business park specific plan is because of vertical integration. And this is important for many industries, but for cannabis, vertical integration is very limited. We're not seeing a lot of craft cannabis operators. Cannabis is becoming uh more and more commercialized, more and more refined, and um you're we're not seeing our retailers growing their own cannabis. A lot of times, um, there's an interest in being able to package a custom blend, um, and then be able to sell that custom blend on the floor. Um, but as I mentioned before, our local operators are not currently able to do that. There's also an opportunity for local competition. This is where we can create our own our own Vista uh, branded products. Um Vista has been developing as a city and cannabis is a really big component of that. Um, we have, um, currently 10 retail operators and they all have their own,

um, brand and themes and styles. And being able to provide your own custom um, cannabis products that are prepackaged under a distribution license would provide more uh, equality in this local competition. It would mean that uh smaller shops would get the chance to actually put their name on something on something rather than having to pay a big manufacturer to do that. This also promotes a craft product market. We've seen a lot of success in our uh Vista uh craft brewing industry with these types of models where we're combining um distilleries with tasting rooms. Um, so being able to combine licenses and uses can actually create a better product experience overall. And then, um, lastly, I think that there's a need to expand distribution licenses. Distribution time is often seen as just transporting cannabis from one area to another, but there is this key um, operation that's included in distribution licenses that um, I think has been overlooked. I've spoken to people about it. It's kind of like, oh my goodness, I did not realize that packaging cannabis or pre-rolled joints is also part of distribution. So, it's an interesting way how the California law is written, but it kind of gives us this opportunity to um expand distribution licenses um on the basis of it's more than storage, right? It's our local operators being able to curate that customer experience. Um, and two licenses restricted to the business park um is unfortunately very limiting to our operators. And so we'll go on to um my ask for the

council. We have a couple opportunities here when it comes to cannabis. one, I think that we need to move a ballot measure, a ballot initiative to November election for the reform of Measure Z to allow for on-site cannabis consumption. Um, I'm having conversations daily with folks that are looking for safe access to cannabis and um, just like any other adult recreation or adult consumption of alcohol, I really think that this is um, something that we need to move forward with. There is such a stigma around cannabis use. Um, but there is not only uh a social imperative and equality that should drive us to reform Measure Z, but there's also the economic opportunity that could come with allowing for cannabis lounges and cafes. Um, we need to deregulate. Next, I do think that within our field of control now, we should move to change the Vista Municipal Code to allow for cannabis distribution at current retail sites. Um again distribution might seem like a you know too big of a operation to uh conform to a small retail site but the existing security is there as well as the function of being able to package your own craft products and I think that that should really motivate us to help improve the industry here locally. So that's my um ask of the council if we can entertain some of these thoughts. Um, I have additional references that I can share, but ultimately um, this might be the first of ongoing discussions and I hope that we can, uh, support our local industry, an industry which supports our local economy um, and has helped to shape the prosperity here in Vista. I appreciate your time and I

would ask that we uh, call on any speakers of the public. And just to clarify so that I understand uh with this regard to number two, you're just looking for our measure Z licences to be able to uh package a product at their store.

Yes. And what would need to change in our municipal code is that we would need to uh do away with restrictions uh of the business park specific plan because there are operators um retail operators throughout the city of Vista that do not operate in the business park specific plan that are basically locked out of an opportunity to bag their own cannabis products and make those custom blends and provide that uh exceptional service to their customers.

Question for you. Um couldn't we just create a new class of license that's uh like you know craft um product packaging call it whatever you want uh and allow any of the measure Z licences to have access to that and just allow that one thing. Are you trying to allow other uses or just is just just about to craft packaging? The reason why I'm presenting it this way um and I have explored the packaging licenses with the city attorney um as well as the California uh cannabis industry association is that this is we're also having to be constricted by California law. So we can't just say packaging only. This is the safest way to go about it because it means that when the cannabis gets into your storoom that you uh are receiving tested cannabis because of the processes that take place between manufacturing and distribution. If we were to allow for distribution activities at a retail site, then um the weed would be tested. It would be safe for public consumption. That's a really big motivation for me is um making sure that testing is done. Um the other component is that um there is no specific license that we can provide outside of distribution if cannabis retailers want this opportunity like they have perhaps in other cities. I think we could um we could take a look at that. I see city attorney nodding that perhaps there are other cities. Oh no, were you not referencing that? Okay, nodding at something else. Um, let's lock in. So, uh, when it comes to the opportunity that would allow for retailers to package their own blends, um, cannabis distribution license is really the only license that's available for that.

Okay. Uh, let's hear from our public commenters on this. Uh, is it Dan, Jesse, John? Sorry about that. Uh, John Jesse.

Yeah, this is for me. Um, I'm locked out. So, sorry guys. It's been a long time since I've spoken in front of you, but thank you for uh entertaining me. For the for me alone, I have to rent this huge building. I have all this extra space. My rent's 14 grand a month. I'm giving you guys $15,000 a month in taxes. I need this. I can give you another seven grand a month in taxes. I I just need this to be viable. The consumption allows vote on that. But put the distribution for me. This gives me competition because I'm competing against people that have 13 stores. I'm one owner with one partner. I'm dying. I need this. You know, I could It's just simple. I can buy, you know, licensed package tested weed, put it in a bag, and cut my cost by 50%. And I can pay more taxes. So, I beg you to do this for me and for the city of Vista. If you guys need more money, I can give you a lot more. I was on the other end of this. I've been to prison twice for this. I got this license. I stood in line for two weeks out here. Give me this, please.

I appreciate your time. Thank you. Okay. Now, we have some commenters on Zoom. We'll start with Madison Rap followed by Peggy Walker. Hi. Can you hear me? Okay. Yes, we can. Yes, we can.

Okay. So, thank you for the opportunity to speak to this item. As you consider licensing of cannabis related uses, I urge you to focus on what increased commercialization means for the young people in our community. Whether it's cultivation, retail, or events, increased licensing increases overall availability. And when availability increases, youth access increases, even with age restrictions in place. Teens don't typically walk into these stores. They obtain marijuana through diversion, older friends, and social networks. More licensed businesses simply mean more product circulating in the community. What's especially concerning today is the potency and form of these products. High THC concentrates and vapes, often reaching extremely elevated THC levels, are now widely available and heavily promoted. They are designed for intensity and they carry greater risks particularly for developing brains. It seems concerning that it is being called an opportunity for retailers to be able to custom blend and repackage these high potency products without any further oversight or knowledge of the health effects. Recent reporting has highlighted rising concerns about youth mental health, including links between high potency cannabis and serious psychiatric outcomes. There is growing acknowledgement that commercialization has outpaced our understanding of the consequences for young people. Increased exposure leads to normalization. When cannabis businesses become a common part of the landscape, the perceived risk declines and use becomes more likely. That change has real implications for mental health, academic success, and long-term well-being. You have the opportunity tonight to set the tone for Vista's future. I urge you to

limit expansion and instead prioritize strong prevention efforts and safeguards for youth. These decisions will shape not just today's marketplace, but the environment our children grow up in. Thank you. Peggy Walker, followed by Sinara Velasquez. Peggy Walker,

thank you. Good evening. I'm opposed to this reform. As a youth minor and public health professional, I ask you to look beyond tax revenues to research showing the real risks and harms of marijuana availability to young people. To be clear, the pot industry's business model is to hook future generations. And when it's available, kids will get it. Studies show kids who live within 10 minutes of dispensaries have higher youth psychosis, ER, and hospitalization rates. Studies show pot causes youth IQ loss, impaired brain development, and reduced cognitive function. UCSD found young pot users experience worse processing speed, inhibition control, and working memory compared to non-users. differences that seem small but add up to affect learning, everyday functioning, and cause long-term brain changes. Studies show marijuana poses significant physical and mental health risks from psychosis, anxiety, depression, and suicide, which is rising, to a variety of cancers, lung diseases, early stroke, and heart attack risk. These are strong for those under 25 who are using. County data shows significant marijuana related ER admission rates for youth 12 to 17 and Ry's hospital reports disturbing marijuana poisoning rates in children five and under. You speak of supporting industry, but what about youth well-being? Expanding marijuana availability and crafting products sends the message that you elected leaders approve an intoxicating drug that's harming young

brains and bodies. That's not what we want. Tax revenues are not worth the tradeoff of a single child's future. Please reconsider. Thank you. Sinara uh Velasquez followed by Wade Olsen.

Hi. Um my name is Sinara Velasquez. I didn't come to speak on this tonight, but I am the uh CFO of the Cannabis Education Project. We are the social equity contractor with the county of San Diego, and I am very much in favor of uh of of this expansion. Firstly, uh talking about cannabis lounges, there is one jurisdiction in San Diego City that allows cannabis lounges today that is National City and they have one and it has been a very much a net positive for the tax base of the community. It's also driven tourism and revitalized their uh waterfront district um leading to increased hotel occupancy. they have not experienced any um any increases in crime or any other uh negative public effect because of it. I would highly recommend that the members of the council go down and check out this establishment. Um many organizations I work with do all of their events there because it is the only cannabis friendly uh venue in San Diego County. Um obviously there's a need for something a little farther north than National City. So I'd highly highly recommend that you check it out. Uh, as far as adding distribution licenses, as um, council member member Melendez correctly stated, uh, the state of California licensing schema, you must have what is called a distribution license. It's specific, um, in order to cut out number one, cut out the middleman that adds significant overhead to operations. And if you wanted to package your own product, so um, it's it is a licensing class with state of California. you need to obtain it to to package your own pro product and also much like alcohol having the separate distributor adds a significant um cost component because the distributor is is also taking a cut. Um cannabis businesses have been suffering from very high taxes and not and and well yeah basically overt taxation along with the federal government not allowing

them to deduct um business expenses. So this this is one way to support the businesses you have today that is as the last speaker said giving significant um uh uh tax revenue to the city. So very much in favor of this. Thank you for bringing it forward. Wade Olsen.

Wade Olsen, are you with us still? Yes. Can you hear me now? Yes, please go ahead.

Okay. My name is Wade Olsen. I'm a resident of Vista. I'm a medical marijuana patient and I have my state medical cannabis card through the county of San Diego registered in Vista. I'm on the Legacy of Cannabis Genetics Community Advisory Board and in the Ganier program that I'm on that I got an equity scholarship for. I'm an approved equity applicant in the cannabis equity program in San Diego and to the best of my knowledge, the only approved equity applicant here in the city of Vista. I hope Vista will approve licensing all types of cannabis businesses. I think consumption lounges and events are important for safe access. I hope to see all types of cultivation, distribution, and manufacturing. I hope to start a lounge and dispensary in Vista and also a farmer-owned cannabis co-op to help grow the craft cannabis market in San Diego. I also want to make a shared space to help equity cannabis brands get started. I also hope to see Vista develop an equity program that allows people like me a chance in the legal cannabis market. Thank you.

Thank you. We'll close the opportunity for public comment on this item and uh I want to continue trying to understand. So I'm going to ask cuz city attorney sounds like you had some conversations with council member Melendez. So uh I I'm just wondering I mean I I don't know this is the first uh that we're discussing this. I I don't know if it's the packaging or if there are other elements of the distribution license that our measure Z licences are asking us for but are we able so we we've created a if you want to call it this and I will call it this a class of distribution license that's available only in the business park can we create a separate class of distribution license that's available in other geographic locations

I don't think so the state has two distribution licenses one is transport only and then one is a full distribution license which allows for the repackaging and transport. So we do allow for this type 11 distribution license currently in our municipal code which is a full license. And so if the if an entity has a full license from the DCC I don't think the city has any authority to curtail what they can do in Vista under that license. Why would we not be able to create a special use permit in order to like a special use permit for use zoning

or just like

uh basically I I don't know what um privileges a distribution lency has that I would be interested in curtailing. But I I I want to avoid any uh grievous unknown consequences here. So I I need a full discussion of you know if we're going to the reason that we originally and I was one of the proponents of allowing the distribution licenses. I said uh we're going to have 11 uh you know legal marijuana retailers in Vista. We should have the sunundry businesses that support those licences should exist in Vista. uh so that we could a capitalize on tax revenue and b uh we want to have as much of that industry that supports our businesses be right here at our local uh and and we were thinking of that as a non- retail. I'm I'm not opposed to this at all. I just I just don't understand it yet. Uh so I need I need to better understand it. I I don't see why. I mean we place all kinds of restrictions on all kinds of businesses. Why would we not be able to uh why would we not be able to restrict certain types of activity? I mean, we're we're not in the granting of of cannabis licenses. That's the state of California's perview, but we certainly are in the governing of land use business.

I mean, I would have to look at it to give you a definitive answer, but we would be curtailing it would be how I'm just to give you my thought process. It would be us trying to curtail a state of California driver's license on what you can't like. I don't believe we have the authority, the Vista, to say anyone under the age of 18 can't drive after 10 p.m. if you have a California issued license. That's kind of the

Well, that's entirely different because you're you're talking about a driver's license and I'm talking about literally land use. I mean, what you can what kind of business you can and cannot have. Uh we we absolutely govern all kinds of you know we say how many tattoo parlors, how many smoke shops. Uh we we govern exactly what you do on your commercial property to earn with with that criteria. Yes, the council would have the authority to govern the put a cap on it. Uh restrict it to whatever zones they want to. But the question I think I'm I was answering for you is whether we can restrict a state license. We can't restrict the license. But forget about the license for a second. we can restrict the land use through our land use policy.

So, what are some of the things that a distribution license might allow for and and maybe it's none? Mayor, can I could I assist you in this line of questioning because I think you're asking important questions. Um, so there's a list here of the distribution operations. Um, which page? It's they're not labeled. I'm sorry. So, it's going to be maybe the fourth. This is this is it. This is the activities um distribution operations essentially storage arrangement for testing and the transport of cannabis kind of tell me which page I got one two three four which limit it's labeled limitation of I will label them next time

no so these are the activities in addition to I I got a question for is the label of this are we looking at a list of limitations or are we listing looking at a list of of allowances under This is what the operations this is. If you are doing these operations, you need a distribution license. So this is what a distribution license allows not what it's not the correct. Okay.

So if you want to move finished cannabis goods to retail premises, you have to have a distribution license. Also on the next page, this is where I go into what is what I feel an anomaly that cannabis packaging is included under distribution operations. So if a local shop wants to use existing um rental space, right, retail space and vertically integrate and package their own blends like many other businesses like to do, um they would have to have a distribution license in order to do that. So that's where the clarity comes in where we can put some parameters. We could put zoning like we have on the business park. We could also put operation parameters, I believe. Okay. city manager or city attorney, pull me back, okay, if I'm wrong here, we could say um no distribution activities after 11 p.m., right? Or what have you. So, we can put some parameters on how the license is expressed through zoning um and through other means. But if someone has a distribution license, that means that they are allowed to provide storage and they are allowed to package and they're allowed to transport and they're allowed to test.

Well, yeah, it's we already allow we have testing and it's and I I think uh Mr. Jesse, I think you're Dr. Green if Yeah. Right. Um, so I know I know your where your facility is and that because you're set apart from any other retail or really any other land uses. You're out there all by yourself right now. Um, I can't conceive of what you could do at your site with storage, manufacture, transportation that would be a bother to anybody else. So, I don't see a problem there. Um but are we and I mean what other uh measures e licences do we have that are asking us to make these changes cuz I I just I I don't know. I mean some of them have uh I don't maybe off the charts has extra space. Some of them have extra space cuz they got a bigger building than they needed. Uh like um which what is it? March and Ash that has the coffee shop they just opened. What's what's the name of that one?

Tradecraft. Yeah. Uh they they might have put something other than a coffee shop in had had we uh allowed them to do this. Uh they might yet kick the coffee shop out uh in favor of this if it's better. Um well, I would um in in speaking with those operators, I think that they're favorable to a cafe or a lounge, right, where you can serve cannabis. Um so, but that would require an initiative,

right? So, I I don't think that, you know, let's not theorize that they're just going to do away with that existing um coffee shop. It's it's such a great spot. But I just want to be make something really clear. These activities, and this is where staff and I got stuck in the discussion, these activities are specifically not manufacturing. We are not extracting more potent products. We are not doing some of those more intensive manufacturing activities. What this is allowing is, and I even considered, should we do a demonstration on rolling a joint, packing an eighth, because it's not very invasive, it's not very intrusive. It's uh food safety style gloves and hairetss. Um those are also outlined by the um California uh California Department of Cannabis Control. Uh those types of operations. So it's uh I would encourage us to see it as a um food safety operation.

So this is not a manufacturing. This is not manufacturing distribution. You if you want to package a pre-ested product that's ready to go into your own branding, you got to have a distribution license. Can I can I add Yeah, please try to help this conversation. So right now any retailer in the business park in uh research light industrial area could apply for receive a distribution license from the dcc and start doing this right now under chapter 5.98 any of our measure z licences that exist in the rli zone in the business park what's rli uh research light industrial that

research light industrial okay

under the code what the council has done in chapter 5.98 they have labeled distribution, manufacturing and testing as cannabis enterprise businesses. You group them into a category and those businesses are restricted to the RLI area which effectively is the business park. And so if you are outside of that area right now, you could not qualify to do business for any of these three purposes in the city of Vista. But if right now a retailer that exists in the RLI zone, they could get a distribution license and they could do these activities that council member Melinda is talking about. So it's it's it actually exists today. What the I what is being presented is basically a broadening of it is to allow other retailers or other businesses potentially in the in the city of Vista to do distribution activities outside the RLI district. So it would require two things that I can see legally. 598 would have to allow for distribution licenses to operate outside RLI potentially in the retail zones because that's where most of the retailers exist and it would have to increase the number of licenses because it's capped at two right now.

Yeah. And so those changes are all within the control of the city council. Then let me ask this. Um, I mean, I think it's a a fair thing for us to ask somebody that wants one of these distribution licenses to list out the activities that they want to perform so that we know what they are.

Yeah. So, what where you're going, as long as the council can make a rational f a r it's the rational relationship test. So as long as uh to to meet the constitutional requirements of not you know no disparit treatment and equal protection as long as there's a rational relation to a government functional function like setting hours setting you know security requirements maybe above and beyond the state. Well, our limitation right now is council can do

our limitation right now is for the business park because we knew that the business park was a place that these types of uses as far as we could envision them would not be uh upsetting to neighboring properties. It's my opinion that where your business is that these activities likely would not be a bother to your neighbors. Uh but you know I I feel like we would need to have uh on a a sort of a case by case basis uh you know the other stores if they wanted to do this come forward and tell us I mean you know I don't I don't know if we're talking about vehicles coming and going in larger quantity uh and and it's and I don't mean to ask that specifically of you because I need to know it of all the

Yeah. No, I appreciate that. But what I'm really saying is I would need to I would need to see that from all the other people who might apply for this when they apply and then be able to have some discretion. Uh you know because the bottom line is not every measure Z location is conducive for what I would you know me when I when I think distribution I'm thinking you know we've got big trucks coming and smaller trucks going. That's distribution in my limited uh comprehension here. Um this is a little bit different take on uh I I think we can get there for what you're looking to do. Uh my question is how do we retain some control over it with regard to a wash of unintended consequences in other locations. I just don't want um you know some of these locations would be very conducive and others wouldn't. So I think we need to look into um you know what right we have to regulate and our regulations would I think would be completely okay because the regulations we have now are about the conduciveness of the uh surrounding land uses to the to the function right and that would be the exact same criteria that we would apply uh what we're really saying is here we just want to uh add do we do we even have the two distribution lices.

No, we have we have one. So, there's one available there's there's one available. Yeah.

Right. And and I don't have a problem especially I I didn't even know that this this form of you know what we would call boutique packaging. I didn't know that that needed a distribution license. I certainly I was thinking big warehouse business. Uh and when we did the the two limitation for distribution I was thinking 100,000 square feet of big you know and I was thinking let's start with two we can always increase but this is a completely different use and one of the reasons I don't have a problem with it is because the measure Z licenses are I if we can constrain this to the measure Z lenses number one they're sort of fixed in their location correct They're

they can they can transfer it to a different location. They could move potentially, but they would have the requirements of distance from other retailers. It's it's functionally very difficult for them to move. Yes.

Uh but they could. But anyway, we would have the ability to I'm a go for this. Uh as long as you know I I don't want a I don't want a shotgun approach. I'd like a a rifle based on land use. So one issue that I foresee is limiting limiting it to existing retailers because again we have to have equal protection of the laws. If we allow this in whatever zones the council wants to try to limit it. It would have to be in order to do that we would have to make objective findings that supported you know a you know rational government purpose on why only existing retailers are in a are able to apply for a license and honestly as I sit here it's it would be a hard test so anyone who wants to come in say I want to be I want a distribution license as we do now

that makes sense they would they would say why are you why did you change it and made to retail, you know, cannabis retail locations only. And that would be, I think, a hard question to answer. No, I I I can see that you can't you can't say that you have to be this type of lency in order to uh which is why we just did a blanket limit on it and it's not limited right now to only measure. In fact, we didn't anticipate the measures licenses being the distributors. Yes. Um. Yes. So, I think we we got a whole lot of research to do here. Um, and hopefully it won't take forever to do it. I don't foresee that it should.

Well, I think any research here would have to be done by community development. This is a zoning. This is a land use. I mean, from a legal perspective, I can write you an ordinance that amends this. Yeah. I I think we we want to look at this based on the land use law and not look at it based on the cannabis law because I'm I'm really more interested in regulating land use than I have so it would be a land use determination.

Yeah. Okay. Um and and I think that these should be a uh I would be a a minor use permit. Is that how you would do this? I think we need to look into it and determine what the best but anyway it would be a special use permit that would I think I don't want it to be ministeriarially approved. It would need to come back each of them uh need to come back to the city council not the planning commission. They could go through planning first but I think they would need to not be approved by planning. They need to be approved by the council. So, um, Council Member Contrarus.

Okay. A lot of good questions, good answers. Um, you know, I I'm ready to allow for more distribution licenses. I I think, you know, it seems as though there's just a misunderstanding between manufacturing and distribution. and seeing where all of the retail sites are uh and the fact that there's usually other retail around them that are uh receiving goods. Um I I don't I understand the hesitation but I also don't necessarily understand it um because these activities are already happening to other retail uh uses around uh the uh regulated uh retail sites that we have. Um, and I I I just think that this is, you know, for our small businesses, um, this is just a critical move forward for them. I, you know, I I don't think that we need to restrain, um, the relabeling or repackaging, uh, for any of anybody who wants to acquire one of these licenses. Um, you know, I think it's beneficial uh to have to have them not be restricted uh to a light industry area um light industrial area. I think we need to create more opportunity and we have a we have the ability right now to move down

the path of creating more opportunity and more resilience uh for our cannabis businesses in light of the other cities around us and the county um and the competition. I think this is a critical step for our our Vista businesses to have a competitive edge. Um, and I wouldn't want to lose the opportunity uh to move forward with giving our businesses uh a an opportunity to provide more safe access and more revenue uh for the city. Um, you know, I didn't know that this was I I guess I didn't really understand the difference between manufacturing and and distribution. And, you know, as um the city has undergone these discussions, it seems that we're all learning uh that manufacturing and distribution are are extremely different. Um, so one of the things that I don't know the answer to right now is how many licenses should we increase to, you know, should it be five? Should it be 11? Should it be one per per 10,000, you know, in population? I don't know. But I don't think that we have to know that just now. Um, I think this is going to be a process uh where um maybe community development and the city attorney's office are working um on council direction to bring forward uh a change in the municipal code um that allows for product packaging um which falls under distribution. So, you know, I'm I'm okay

um with starting this process and and moving um moving direction to staff and hopefully, you know, the rest of the council can can come on board with that. You know, one of the things that I haven't heard too much discussion is um moving a ballot initiative to November election for the reform of Measure Z to allow for on-site cannabis consumption. Um, I don't know how the rest of the council feels about that. This is something that I've discussed uh many times in the past and I'm in favor of um pursuing reform to Measure Z. I I there's it's just written very poorly and I don't think that the city I don't think it allows enough control um from the city to ensure that we have the type of cannabis development um that we want to see in the city. So there's just a lot of issues with Measure Z and I I do think that it could be reformed. Uh, so I'll go ahead and um I don't have any additional questions. I I feel like I understand this to a greater degree than I did before. So I do want to move forward um and give staff direction to to update and change the Vista Municipal Code to allow for cannabis distribution at um it sounds like we can't do it at current retail sites. It it would have to be broader than that.

Correct. Right now the zoning would have to be expanded to in if you want to include all current uh cannabis dispensary sites to uh include all zones that they exist in right now all 11 10 and the one application pending the zones that they currently exist in. So, we could just mirror um what we already have as far as requirements uh for retail operators with when it comes to zoning and land use. Yeah. Not maybe.

So, because the retailers were done as a matter of right because it was a citizens initiative and the city had 30 days to approve, you know, the applications. So it didn't go through much of a vetting per se process. So the locations were basically picked out very quickly. So I'm not 100% sure. Okay. So you just need to do more research on that. Right. I'm not aspect where everyone how everyone's situated and what zone per se or what specific use plan they're in potentially.

Okay. So then would it be um would it be better to have a motion that um provides staff direction to change and update the Vista Municipal Code to allow for cannabis distribution and just leave it there and because it sounds like there might be some understanding as to what the council is looking for. So, I would just ask that it be the motion also to uh allow it uh at least it where all current retailers exist. Oh, okay. Okay. All right. Just trying to figure out the best way to to do this motion. Um Okay. So, council member. Yes.

Possible could we just give uh direction to staff, tell them what we want and let them bring back a Yeah. Uh, if you're agreeable, can I can I can I crack a pun? A fully baked proposal. You can and you did and it was a good one. Um, okay. And so just by consensus, it sounds like I I mean there's still a lot more council members that want to speak um for the list.

Yeah. And so the other thing is that I do support um a ballot initiative in the November election to reform Measure Z. Um so I'll just need to hear from the rest of my council to see if they agree with that as well. All right. Thank you so much. This has been very enlightening. Council member Fox. Thank you. Um my first question was are we maxed out on all our current licenses? So I heard we have out of the two we have one potentially available currently. Okay. Is it like that across the board on on cultivation cheat sheet on the the other ones?

We have no cultivation applicants. We have one of the two manufacturing and distribution licenses issued. Okay. One's available. Okay. That was just mostly no testing locations either.

That was mostly for my own curiosity. But um I mean white labeling is pretty common in many other industries and so I I don't necessarily see a problem with with adding that as something that you know they could do at retail locations. Um, I do understand the mayor's concern about, you know, what are some of the potential things we're not thinking about that, you know, I I mean, semi driving through, you know, retail park, you know, places where they weren't supposed to be and everything, but I'm h I have a feeling that we could keep that from happening through land use and through potential just the property owners not allowing for like that kind of stuff on their property. Is that would that or that would that be something that they would not allow to regulate? Like you can't force someone to be able to take a semi on their property, right?

You could potentially regulate as long as it's reasonable and rejected and applies equally across the board. Yeah. Yeah. Size of truck, not size truck, hours, I think, you know, and certain things like that. So, so the the things that we're the most worried about would be able to be confronted in a different way somehow. Yeah, I would think so. Because then if it's bad enough to where it causes a problem, then it gives us a reason to fix the problem. Correct. So these would be basically be operating standards per of of the use of these licenses in Vista.

Okay. And that was my my really only main concern was you know other than packaging are there other distribution things that we might that might come up that we weren't thinking about some some uh but if we're able to at that time make sure that we can have less unforeseen circumstances you know then I I think that that's my main concern taken care of. The other one is after something is packaged, I'm assuming it would have to go through a new set of testing then because it would have to be like the they would have to have the potencies and stuff on the label and and all of that is that I don't I don't know who would even ask about that. But

so it's it's you know I'm I'm not authoritative on this. This is but under the code section for for packaging labeling and rolling. It does say a licensed distributor shall not process cannabis but may roll pre-rolls that consist exclusively of any combination of flour, shake, leaf, or kef. Pre-rolls shall be rolled, packaged, and labeled prior to regulatory compliance testing. So yes, it sounds like it has to go back for testing after that, but I I don't know if that's the case. maybe if it's already pre-ested and they're just rolling. So, I can't give you a definitive answer, but that that's just what the code section says.

And that would that would prevent any kind of, you know, black market stuff entering, you know, into a packaging area and then potentially being turned into from black market to regular market because it'd have to be tested after that, I guess. Okay. U that would be my second concern. But um again I think if there is that that testing thing afterwards anyway or you're having to use pre-ested you know thing that's already been regulated then I I mean I think that kind of concern that solves that concern as well. So uh I think those are my my other my only two real concerns with it. I do I was also curious number of licenses like if that's something where we have to figure that out now or if it could be something we start with. And

so I we you know if you're asking for my I I would just leave it blank as without direction from council staff has no authority to put a cap on it. I don't and speaking for myself I wouldn't want to you know guess at a cap. So I would give you a draft ordinance with a blank line in there.

Yeah. Okay. And we could just say the current two plus the number of retailers at the moment and that's our license cap or something. I don't know. Um, okay. Let's see. Measure Z. I think that is that is kind of the bigger question. What is what would the cost be to put that on the ballot? The regular voters says it's maybe about $80,000. Okay. And do we have a a a place to fund that through currently? Do we have funds available? Is that going to be

Can we find $80,000? Is that the question? Yes, we can. Okay. Yeah. So, can I add there's one more potential cost? Yes. If if the council wants to put it on the ballot, I would highly recommend we use an outside council uh to write it. It's a very specialized thing so that you know withstands any uh scrutiny but then also if I write it there could be an argument that there's a prejudice that there's a bias because I'm employed by the council. Therefore my recommendation would be to use an outside counsel and I have talked to one and it' be about 20 to $25,000 to write the full ballot measure. So probably about $100,000 all.

Okay. And I would think that this would also if if we do go down this route, I think it would be reasonable to see if there's anything else in measure Z that, you know, we can knock out all at once. Um if there's anything that the city, you know, especially if staff has had some if they've seen some issues. Okay, I'll yeah, pause.

Sure. Well, I think that's something we staff we, you know, Kathy and I talk about quite often. I don't want to potentially kind of, you know, water down what the purpose of it is. And again, we're limit our titles and our neutral statements limited to 500 words, you know, so if we put too many different things in there, it's hard to convey exactly in the uh short summary title in the neutral statement what this is about. And we're under sort of a time crunch for November. So,

so the time estimate we would have to bring you back the ballot, the draft ballot measure is the first meeting of June, June 9th. That gives us one meeting June 23 to take any corrections or guidance from the council to update it because we need to submit it to the register early August and the council is dark in July. So, right. So, if the council's will is to put a measure on the ballot, I would actually at this time, you know, say keep it simple. Okay. Now, I will say that if there's anything that's an emergency that you see is pressing, you know, I think that that's reasonable, but I I agree. I I understand keeping it limited. So,

yeah, I don't think there's anything pressing. We've been able to regulate and work with the dispensers and around with measure Z, you know, effectively in the last couple years. Okay. I think that's it. Sure. I don't know. I don't know at this point. I'll let everyone else talk.

Before I recognize Deputy Mayor, um I I think we need to see a full list of the things that we want to change about Measure Z. I don't think we should rush it through because I'm not hearing a crush of our Measure Z people going, "You got to change this, that, or the other." I'm not hearing that. So what what I would say is uh why don't we immediately begin the process of uh having a listening session with our measure Z uh lences and ask them and you know you could put it on the ballot in 2026 and uh and and have it you know fully thought through uh without rushing it. I mean, no, I I don't see You tell me if if you know something I don't. I don't Nobody's banging on our door going, "You've got to fix this, that, or the other. I know there's some things we'd like to fix, but it sounds like this is really rushing it based on hiring outside counsel and all the things we have to do. Most important is you're going to have all the measures e lenses are going to be very concerned about the changes being made if they don't understand them. So seeking their input, educating them, having a process, having a process with the community, I think is going to take some more time. Deputy mayor,

nail on the head. Um, so this is clear as mud right now. What is the direction that we're trying to provide just to bring back an ordinance that we can then adopt so long as it fits the criteria in which we are looking for to allow these business owners to uh distribute and So there's there's two uh main topics on this discussion, right? I I understand the the I'm specific to the not not the measure Z. Okay. Just to the

distribution. Um my understanding is that I think we should make a motion and and any number of us can make a motion. I might come back around and do it. for clarification for your for your thoughts to expand distribution licenses beyond the business park. Um, and also to create uh operating standards that actually make sense because right now the operating standards just say, "Hey, we're just going to push it over to the business park." It's not very functional for our cannabis industry operators. So to expand distribution licenses so that they can go beyond the business park that a retailer could actually utilize one and do these types of you know packaging that would be the goal.

So and I actually I'm fine with that. I'm not against it. But when you say operating standards is there not already regulatory state operating procedures. So are we trying I mean we're not going to supersede those at the No. But as we described, time of day, size of truck, operating standards, it makes sense for the function beyond the business park as well. Forgive my ignorance on this. Do we see 40 foot trailers of marijuana driving down the streets of Vista anywhere? I've never Yeah. All right. I just I wanted to make sure

depending on where it's coming from, I imagine temperature regulated in some manner. Yeah. Okay. So basically, it's going to stop redundancies within your business and lower your costs. Okay. You live in Oceanside. Oh, all right. No. Um, no. You Hey,

you made the sale. Don't worry. All right. So, um, I am fine with with staff direction to bring back something in that vein so we can make sure that we can get it approved correctly. As far as measure Z, I actually agree with the mayor. I don't want to rush it at the moment. I'm not against it. I'm also just trying to make sure that we have nailed down everything that we need as far as any concerns in it. What it actually looks like, what the regulatory uh concerns might be and it seems like we can't just blanket it to the existing licenses. Is that correct for distribution? I would say that's not not for I'm talking about for now I'm switching gears for the consumption lounges.

Yes. And there's a reason why. Because in order to get a consumption lounge in uh California, it has to be ti tied to a retail location. And so that effectively means only the 11 licensed retailers in Vista could have a consumption lounge. So our equity program wouldn't tie into that and make make it to where we would have to then randomly draw or select based on certain criteria. Uh correct. because again only the 11 licensed retailers would be able to apply for a consumption lounge. Okay. Um unless that changes.

Yeah, I I would like to get feedback from cannabis industry before we move forward on something like that. Again, I'm not a no. I just think more information needs to be provided, but I'm happy to have that discussion. Uh but direction to staff is sufficient at this point. Okay,

Council Member Melendez. Okay, my final thoughts on this item are thank you for supporting um expanding distribution licenses and operating standards that actually make sense for our operators. Um also my thoughts on reforms to measure Z. I really want to make sure that we are moving forward with reforming Measure Z, not just with our cannabis retailers in mind, but with the public in mind. and the public has been calling for us to establish a opportunity for these types of businesses. Um, so regardless of, you know, if half of our cannabis retailers want to open up a cafe and the other half don't and they're dueling it out, what does the public want? Um, that's where we can put it on the ballot and let them decide. So, uh, I'm happy to work on this further and engage, um, uh, those industry members, but ultimately I have conversations with the community all the time where folks are letting me know that they would like to see this. Um, so that's all I have to say. I really appreciate the time. Thank you, John Jesse, for coming through and providing your expertise and thank you, uh, city manager and city attorney for guiding us in this process. Next steps, um, I think that we should go about it, you know, take those two separately. How soon do you think we would be able to discuss distribution licenses?

That's going to be up to the city manager because it's really community development that has to work through the uh zoning and uses and restrictions, operating standards. So, writing the ordinance is pretty straightforward once I have that information. I'm going to say it could be June, but it's more likely August. Okay. Thank you. No, I'm not asking because of rush on this. I'm just wanted to get a sense of time frame. I know our time frame for uh Measure Z reform is a little bit different. So, that's all for me. Thank you so much.

I mean, also, I would be willing to consider because I've got exactly one business owner that's asking for this. If there were others that were sitting here tonight or if they come to us in the next couple of weeks and they want the same consideration, I would give them the same consideration. But what about a simple amendment to the current distribution license that simply uh puts his parcel into I mean the the we can have two different distinct areas within our our existing regulation. See what I'm saying? We just add his parcel to the rag because right now it is restricted to the would be a zoning designation though, not a parcel. So we give him that zoning designation, but the zoning designation would allow it within all those zones within the city. So there's some analysis that needs to happen there.

Can we give him a new zone? Can we make up a new zone for him? I have a solution for this. I thought about this. We basically have created a cannabis row in Vista along South Santa Fe. Could we create a new zoning map based on cannabis industry activity and then improve licensing in that area?

That that's going to require a bigger conversation though because there's more implications to that. Uh versus to to get Look, we've got we've got 11 well we only have 10 lenses right now. If we only have two of them that are interested in this, then we just solve the problem for the two and we're done. Uh, and we then we can we can spend the next year or two or three talking about big changes. But I don't think he wants to wait 3 years for us to have big thoughts. So, you know, we could just solve this problem and if somebody else comes forward and they have a specific request, we could address that. As long as we address it consistently, that's the the key. Everybody has to get treated the same under law. Would that be a faster solution or could we countenance that? Would the council have an objection if the city manager and city attorney find that to be a lawful course of action? Would we object to that?

We I'm just going to respond. I think it's it from my perspective it's easier just to craft the typical rule instead of trying to uh create an exception cuz every time you create an exception I generally find we create more problems and issues that we haven't thought of and then someone someone else will try to come in and try to use the exception too. So, I mean, I think we could maybe we can speed the process up, you know, to get this out, but you know, I would I would council against trying to create a specific, you know, exemption for one retailer at this time. Very good. You you understand what we want to do.

Uh we're going to leave it to you to figure it out and bring it back expeditiously to the council. Uh anything Okay, I think we're we're done with this item, right? Okay. Uh thank you very much for bringing that to our attention. Um our last discussion item tonight is regarding rank choice voting. If any members of the public wish to speak on this item, they may indicate so be using the raise their hand feature by pressing star 9 or so request to speak card. Speakers will be called upon after the presentation. Council member Melinda has asked for the item to be on the agenda, so we'll ask her to introduce it.

Uh yes, thank you. So, um I don't have a presentation on this item. Um but I wanted to just get a temperature check of the council. Um and and begin the process of having this discussion. Um in my uh investigation with the city manager and city attorney, um my understanding is that rank choice voting is not something that's currently being done in the county of San Diego. City of San Diego did explore the option. um their costs, potential costs associated with making changes and allowing for rank choice voting um would have been close to $3 million. Um the benefits of rank choice voting um our current voting system is a uh is based on plurality. So you have two options. the top two uh contenders for an election um are the ones that are competing against each other for rank choice voting. Uh the voter actually gets to rank the options of the different candidates allowing for uh more diversity um allowing for more third-party candidates. Um and ultimately um there is a sense that um the person who gets the vote at the end of the day is voted uh for by the majority of constituents even if that might not have been their first choice, it would have been their second choice. Um so there is potentially more research to be done on this topic. Um, but it is uh something that a concept that I was introduced to and I just wanted to see, you know, a temperature check from the council. Do we know what rank choice voting is? Have we heard about it? Um, have we learned of other cities that are using rank choice voting, municipalities? Um, what are your

thoughts on rank choice voting? Would you be interested in this style of elections? Um, and then from there, we can just direct our city staff. But very low engagement topic. We can get out of here quick. We'd love to hear just a few of your thoughts.

Well, I I'll share my thoughts. Um, from what I can tell, it's a lot more complicated process not only for voters, but also for elections administrators. Uh, not that it's impossible to understand because that isn't the case, but it is more difficult for voters to understand. Uh while there would be a cost to it, it might make more sense if we had primary elections in Vista, like some other municipalities like Chula Vista has primary elections that would enable I mean I think the the one advantage I can see of rank choice voting is what you ultimately want uh it would be better to have people elected by a majority of voters than by a plurality because sometimes you know we have a a five-way contest somebody could get elected with 20% of the vote. Uh so I think it's better to have a majority of the will of the voters expressed. However, with rank choice voting, uh it requires voters to do a lot more work and research. Takes more time to vote the ballot. It takes a lot more time to tabulate the votes. It requires computers to tabulate in a way that's less transparent. It's not as easy as just going my stack of ballots is higher than your stack of ballots, so I win. Uh it's about, you know, discarding these votes and adding these and there's a lot of math to it. uh it erodess trust and confidence in the process. So for me, I'm not in on rank choice voting just because it's too complex. Uh but I think there are potentially other ways that we can increase transparency. And if we wanted to talk about, you know, it's it's a huge additional expense, but if we did want to talk about going to uh primary elections that might uh accomplish some of your ends, Council Member Contras,

I just want to double check to make sure uh to see if we have any speakers. I'm so sorry. Oh, I'm sorry. My lack of presentation. and I rushed through it. Yes. Uh not seeing them here in the chambers, I uh I skipped over. We have two on Zoom. We have uh Sinara uh Velasquez followed by Steve Chessen. Sinara.

Hi. Yeah, this was the uh agenda item I was actually here for tonight. Um and uh I'm I'm actually excited about this conversation about rank choice voting. I would disagree that it's more expensive than a primary. It's none like um having a slightly different uh voting tabulation method is far cheaper than sending out primary ballots having that print and go paying the fees to the to the registar of voters for the printing and the tabulation of a separate election. So it gives you a lot of the benefits that you see in a primary but without the cost and complication of an additional election. So again, as the council member said, it it assures that people are elected by the majority and not by a plurality. Having people elected by plurality means that an outlier that has a loyal fan base can get elected. So it's rank choice voting really uh does a great job of getting rid of extremism in votes. It also does a great job of getting rid of split vote splitting. And we see this over and over again in all sorts of jurisdictions. And that's why people have primary election is to eliminate vote splitting. But it's a very imperfect mechanism. This is a much better mechanism. I had uh submitted a proposal to this to the council. Um, basically just saying, you know, I would recommend putting an initiative, it would have to be a charter amendment on the ballot that simply says the city of Chola Vista, sorry, the city of Vista um can uh have rank choice voting, a form of of of choice voting because the way the charter currently states it is the California state system, which is um only standard voting methodology. So, you know, I I would highly recommend the city move forward looking at this so that you have the option in the future if you do want to utilize it and to get a pulse as well, not just from the council, but also from the voters of Vista. So, thank you very much and I

hope you consider this. Thanks. Our last commenter is Steve Chessen.

Can you hear me?

Yes, we can. Go ahead. Thank you very much, Mayor Franklin. Council members, good evening. My name is Steve Chesson. I'm president of Californians for Electoral Reform. Our organization has worked with several city councils and their staffs in cities that wanted to go to rank choice voting, drafting charter amendments and implementation ordinances for them, and we'd happy to help the city of Vista should it decide to go in that direction. I'll email my contact information to the city clerk. I do note that San Diego County does have voting equipment that is certified for rank choice voting and there is a citizens group in San Diego working on an initiative to bring rank choice voting to that city. Exit polls show that the vast majority of voters once they use rank choice voting like it, understand it, and want to continue to use it. The mayor tossed out a lot of canards about rank choice voting that aren't true in practice. I don't have time right now to respond to them, but you do need a presentation on rank choice voting and I can arrange that if you desire that. Uh, you do have a written public comment advocating what the commenter calls head-to-head voting, also known as pairwise or condors. While there is no equipment certified for head-to-head in California, at least 97% of the time, the winner of a rank choice voting election would have also won under a head-to-head tabulation. So, you could adopt rank choice voting this year. And if and when the county's equipment is certified for head-to-head, switch over to that should there be a desire to do so. I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have and I appreciate your time. Thank you very much.

Okay, we'll close the opportunity for public comment on this item. Now, we'll hear from Deputy Mayor Donald. Do we um Kathy, do we know what the voter turnout was for our districts in each of the last respective elections? So, D1 and D4 in 2022 and D2 and D3 in 2024. Um I don't have the number of voter turnout for that. I do have the number of candidates we had in each of those elections. How far back do you have the number of candidates? Um, so I just look back to when we went to districts. So 2018 was our first district elections. Yeah.

Um, so we had three candidates for mayor, two for district 1, and three for district 4. In 2020, we had two candidates each for district two and three. 2022, two candidates for mayor, one for district 1, two for district 4. 2024, two for district two, two for district three, and then so far with um filing intent to run, we have three candidates for mayor, two candidates um for district one, and one candidates for district 4. So for clarification on the three candidates for mayor, we have three in three intentions to run,

but we have only received filing paperwork from one candidate so far. Is that correct? Um they haven't the other two have not set up committees yet, but they're not required to. Right. I understand. But yeah. Well, they will be required to to enter on if they're going to spend or collect more than um $2,000,

which I would not run for mayor Vista for less than $2,000. That's just me. Um I I've I've lived like we were talking about Australia earlier, right? They do rank choice voting there, but they also have multiple parties there, right? So, it makes more sense to do it there. Um, of all the complaints I've heard in nearly four years now, none have been I don't like the way our voting system works. Uh, and as someone who had to wait the full 30 days to get the election results from my race in 2022, and that was just with two people, um, I'm not overly familiar with rank choice voting, so I'm not I don't want to throw around a generality on this, but I've read that it would actually sometimes take longer to tabulate votes than a simple two uh major or simple majority with with a majority vote. Um, the plurality, I understand why that can be an issue, but in in the what since 2018, we've only had one race that's had three people. There potentially maybe two. If we were having things like we see in Carl's bad and Oceanside where there's four, five, six candidates in a race, I'd be much more open to the thought of it. But to make it a ballot measure without overwhelming public support or even um the request from the public on my end, I wouldn't be supportive at this moment. Uh it's an interesting topic to have and a discussion to have, but I just I I don't I don't see where this system has failed Vista yet. Um so yeah, I just I wouldn't be on board with it at the moment.

Council member Fox, thank you. Yeah, as a as someone who was a an avid third party voter when I was when I was younger, I would have really liked to to have that on more national races. Um, but that being said, I think it makes the most sense when it's when there are partisan races, right, where you start having kind of the spoiler candidates and you have some of that and you want to be able to include third parties and things where there's um where there would potentially be people feeling like they're wasting their vote voting for somebody. I think those are the cases where rank choice makes the most sense, whereas for nonpartisan races, I feel like it makes a little less sense. Um, not that I'd fully 100% be against it, but I do I agree that like I I don't know if we want to be the the pilot for this in San Diego County when um, you know, if if uh, if it starts being a thing that's that more people are doing, I think I wouldn't mind it coming back. But, um, again, like putting it on the putting it on the ballot and spending the money to put it on there, I I haven't had a whole bunch of people reach out to me for it. Um, and I haven't really seen anything that it would have really changed locally. Um, I'd be actually be curious if if it was uh utilized when we had at large how that would have um how that would have influenced things. But um but as of now, I mean, I I think I again I there's there are times in my life where I where I really would have liked to have rank choice voting. Um and uh so I'm not fully against it in principle, but the uh I think timing wise, you know, that's kind of what I'm more more concerned about right now. So, um, wouldn't be supportive of it at on this ballot, but I'm don't mind talking about it. You know, it's interesting. Council member Contrarus,

uh, I'm 100% in favor of rank choice voting. So, that's just personally where I stand. Um, I think that at this point, uh, I want to continue getting more education for the entire council, um, about rank choice voting and what that looks like if we were to implement it in Vista. So, uh, you know, hopefully we can continue to have the discussion. And it doesn't sound like there's potentially an appetite uh from a majority on the council to have this uh happen uh in the November 2026 election. Um but hopefully between now and then we can get some more education and potentially look at um the 2028 election for rank choice voting. So, I do look forward to hearing more about it and seeing how it could be implemented here in Vista. Thank you. Thanks for bringing it forward. Uh, Council Member Melendez.

Okay, that's the end of our agenda. We've been at it for 5 hours and 15 minutes. Does uh, anybody object if we adjourn our meeting? None. Have a good night, everyone. I love you, Ally. Thank you. Actually, while the mics are on, I forgot to wish my son a happy third birthday at the last meeting. So, I just want to wish Caleb a very happy third birthday. Belated and uh Jacob an early birthday. His May His birthday is May 4th. Happy birthday, little O'Donald's.