City Council - Regular Meeting

really carried it with me too. Okay. Good evening. It's now 6 o'clock and I call the workshop of the Victoria City Council to order. Our workshops are informal, so we'll dive right into our agenda. There's one item on the agenda this evening, which is an update on the city's municipal separate storm sewer system. That is a tongue twister. My goodness. Presenting this evening is assistant city manager Amanda Ass assistant city engineer. Sorry, Amanda. Amanda Meyer. Miss Meyer, welcome. The floor is yours.

Wonderful. Uh good evening, mayor, members of the council. With me tonight is Laura Rcorlo with WSB. WSB is one of our consultants that does a lot of uh storm water stuff on behalf of the city. So, she's here presenting with me this evening. The intent of tonight um is to do, you know, generally Cara presents annually on some of our MS4 permit um items as part of our permit. It's one of our requirements uh to provide staff and residents an opportunity to provide comment on our program. Um but then also just provide an update on our program. Uh the city completed a self audit in 2024 of the program. So give you a quick high level of the results of that and then also go through some current program elements. Um so ultimately as you're probably aware Victoria is an MS4 city so we are required to obtain and comply with the national pollutant discharge and elimination system or the NPDES storm water permit uh which is mandated by the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency. So purpose of the permit really is to reduce pollution entering public systems and discharging to water bodies. And then um the permit authorizes the discharge of storm water out of the city's system into those lakes, rivers, and wetlands. Um the permit specifies and outlines a series of best management practices or MCMS. There are there are six of those on the screen before you which I think you've seen this list uh probably many times before. Um but ultimately there are different requirements in each of those MCMS um that the city is working to meet those requirements through various activities. Um and each year the city is required to complete an annual review and like I mentioned uh in 2024 the city consulted with WSB uh to do a self audit of the program. So, this was just kind

of a gut check to see how we're doing on the program, on our permit requirements, um, and just kind of get some feedback. So, WSB used a form that's actually provided by the MPCA, and it's a similar form that the MPC would use, uh, MPCA would use uh, if or when they audit the city and the program. So, it's a it's a good representation of how the city is doing on the permit requirements. Ultimately the findings of the self audit the city is excelling and staff is excelling on inspections on public uh engagement education uh various events um inspections I mentioned plan reviews um reviewing erosion control and then there was one item that really um was identified as a focus area which is the documentation piece. So in each of those six MCMs, there are a variety of uh documentation requirements and they're pretty robust. So for a staff this size to do all of the documentation at every little step can be cumbersome. And what was identified um and what staff will be working on in the coming months year will be finding more efficient ways to do the documentation, finding more efficient ways um to file the documentation so it's in one place um easier to find those sorts of things. But ultimately really good results of that self audit. Um, so with that, I'm going to pass it to Laura to kind of talk through some of our current program elements. Uh, specifically to start with our pond maintenance program.

Good. Good evening, Laura. Welcome.

Hi. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me. So, I'm going to talk primarily about ponds. And this a lot of this can fall under that MCM5, the postconstruction storm water management. But the city of Victoria uses uh the swamp program, the storm water asset management program as a way to help you understand the ponds in your city, what's going on with them, when they might need maintenance, and um basically how well they're doing their job. And so, uh there's a little screen clip here that you can see. The scoring for each pond is from zero to 100 with 100 would be the a newly installed pond or one that is functioning perfectly. Um it's well designed for the area that drains to it. And uh low scores 0 to 25 are are indicating these basins likely need some maintenance. And so in swamp you all have over 90 ponds. So um it can be a nice way to keep track of which ones are popping up showing that they might need maintenance maintenance. When that happens, then we conduct bathometric surveys or uh surveys to understand the depth of that pond to truth the information that's coming from swamp to try to say is this is this pond actually um functioning as swamp anticipates and then we can move from there. So on the right side of the screen you can see a baometric survey that we did in 2024. Um because in 2024 we we surveyed 20 ponds throughout the city. So 20 of those 90 plus. um most of them had been ones that were scoring low

so that we could come up with a plan several years out um to help program some of the the maintenance needs. And so these were uh draft uh tables and figures from that prioritization exercise. Um, and one one interesting thing to note here is that um, as you start planning, of course, things will change. So, we're uh, we have the plans just about ready to go for the 2026 pond maintenance program. Um, there are three green dots on there, which I'm sure is probably hard to see. Um, oh, no, you have you have screens in front of you. Maybe not that hard to see. Um, but we're actually we'll be maintaining two of those ponds this this upcoming winter. And so this plan just helps prioritize again what's needs to be done. And as you can see in that table, give some estimated construction cost estimates. um because it's well and good getting an estimate out of the swamp program um to try to understand how much sediment needs to be removed from there and what that cost might be. But of course, there are additional maintenance factors that aren't always captured there. And so that is a collaboration um between us when we're helping you with your pond management plans and city staff. uh Swamp does a great job of estimating that sediment removal, but there might be other items that would bump ponds higher up in the priority list of when to maintain them. Uh including damaged or failing infrastructure, maybe there are trees starting to grow up or other vegetation that needs to be removed so that pond can function as it should. Or maybe uh some maintenance is driven by resident complaints. Um, any of those things

could bump a pond up in both its priority to be surveyed to figure out if it needs maintenance and then to ultimately do maintenance there. And these um as you're prioritizing ponds that uh I'll jump back for a minute. You can see here we programmed out pond maintenance activities for the next five years. So this is something that would be done regularly. Different cities do things different ways. Some cities like to survey a couple ponds every year so that they can be programming a little bit ahead what they want to do and others like you all just recently did will survey a chunk of ponds all at once to program a little farther out. So, both approaches work and generally then we'll kind of pepper in some additional inspections as we hear that there might be issues at some ponds. Um,

Laura, as long as we're back on that slide, I I've got a couple questions just for clarification. Sure. So, the P 13, what does the P stand for? Because I see we have a W15. Yep. Uh, generally it's pond wetland. Okay. Um these all the ones we're doing maintenance on here are storm water. They're not natural wetlands. They're all storm water basins. So Okay, very good. And then the estimated construction cost is actually the maintenance cost. So in order to maintain that P13 pond, we can expect to spend about $34,000. Yes.

Okay. So this is super helpful for us for budgeting into the next five years. This is great. Okay. Very good. There are a these estimated construction costs are largely based on the sediment removal. Um if we knew of failing pipe ends or something, those would be incorporated in here, but sometimes those are noticed when you're closer to construction. So sometimes costs might increase a little bit if we realize there's failing infrastructure that needs to be included. Okay. So, the the ponds that you guys actually surveyed and scored, um, was there any rhyme or reason to picking those? Are they the oldest ones in our system or what does that how did you do that?

Yes, great question. Most of them were the the lower swamp scores, so ones that had scored between zero and 50. Um, so looked like they would likely need maintenance soonest. And I believe there were some mixed in there too that staff had identified as these might be problem areas. Let's survey these and see what's going on as well. Okay, great. Thank you.

Yeah, I I just will note that public works does inspect the ponds. So, the ponds all need to be inspected every 5 years. So, um the storm water team inspects them and keeps records. So they were able to provide input to the folks on that end of the table for some modifications that were needed in terms of adding a pond or two to survey or being able to say that one's not actually an issue. Let's down prioritize it. So I have a quick question. So swamp score is primary um rank criteria for where we want to concentrate efforts first. Correct.

Yes. Have we given consideration to overlaying the highway five construction so that we're not cleaning a pond of sentiment only to have the entire highway turn up rebuild and then flushing basically new dirt into a clean pond so that we can maybe push some of those guys even though we know the swamp score is not great but maybe push that down the priority queue to maybe 27 28 after the construction. And then we focus on some of the other lower scores that are away from that so that the we're not, you know, essentially harming what we just got done.

Yeah, that's a good question. I don't believe that we've done that, but we can definitely take a look um at least for these and make sure that we don't have anything identified in that area. It's a it's a good question. Good. Cool. And then we have rolling acres that's going to have some runoff into some places there. Absolutely. Thanks. Great. Anything else while we're still here taking a pause? Just one. Um, so every five years, public works kind of tests the ponds, right? That's standard, but

they just inspect. So it's just a it's just the guys going out and taking a look at it, making notes, making observations about what they're seeing. So they could see sediment at the inlets or outlets to the pipe, the vegetation growing up. Those are the sorts of things that they would be looking for and documenting where this step adds in the survey layer where we get more technical data to help decide what needs to be done.

So if we hear from a resident, which I have, um, hey, can you inspect this pond? Um, we should just talk to public works direct, talk to Brady and team directly. Um, and who knows if it's been inspected recently or not, but we'll find out. able to get on that list, etc. Okay, got it. Yep. First step. Okay, thank you. All right, carry on.

Great. Thank you. Uh the C one other thing I'll highlight too is the difference between a wet pond and a filtration basin. Um or or infiltration. Um so a wet pond, these were um these are generally they might be throughout the city. Um maybe more prevalent in older parts of town. their uh primary function is to retain storm storm water. So they're designed both to reduce the discharge rates um the rate that water is going downstream and to uh let water stay in there for a longer period of time so that pollutants can settle out and be contained in the pond rather than going downstream. Um, and so sometimes residents will um be disappointed that their storm pond isn't a lovely uh pristine water body, but often that's because it's doing its job and it's capturing those pollutants, the sediment that's building up in that pond rather than going to the downstream lake or river or wetland. And these then do have a permanent pool of water. So they look like you would expect a pond to look. Whereas filtration basins which there's been a larger emphasis more recently um on installing filtration or infiltration basins if we can. So those will filter storm water either through the native soils or through a filter media. They similarly though they will reduce discharge rates downstream but then they'll capture pollutants in that media or in the soil. And in the case of an infiltration basin where water's just going into the ground, there's no piping um underneath the ground to help it get downstream. Um actually reducing the

amount of water that gets downstream too. And so these basins after rain events will be dry. Um so if it hasn't rained recently, they'll be dry. like the picture here. They might have lots of lovely plants um that can do well um in periods of wet and dry or more might be um lower vegetation, more looking uh looking more like grass almost. Um they might not have all the variety of plants as this photo does, but um they are ultimately dry supposed to be dry basins that treat the storm water. So with that, that's the end. That is the end.

I think sorry I think the only thing I'll add when we went on the tour um we looked at the area like in Brookmore I think it is where we've we've been getting complaints. So, the filtration basins are tough because what happens is is the developer waits to build them till enough of the homes are completed around it because they found that if they build them first, then all the construction comes in, they get filled up with sediment and they're rebuilding them. So, they won't put the filter media in and the plants in and all of those things until the development's a little bit further built out. So when you go to look at the lot, you might see open water and then you've moved in and then they build out the filtration basin to dry drain dry after 48 hours. And that's that generated a number of phone calls um in the Brookmore neighborhood when when those went in. So staff's been talking about um different ways to ask the developers to educate the buyers about these facilities and help them understand that they aren't wet ponds, that they are filtration basins. Um because we're building these, we're required to build them. So this is all regulated by MCWD or Carver County WO. We're building them everywhere. So, um, that it'll be something people see often. So, like I said, Brian and Jen are trying to figure out how to help them educate better. Very good. Thanks. Um, if my memory serves me correct, and it may not, but I understand that this is a change in process or legislation from a few years back. And a few years back, there was a lot of conversation about the cost of maintaining these filtration basins and and ponds and

there was going to be some work at the legislature or local governments to get some help on the cost of doing that. Can you provide any is there anything going on with that anymore or

so generally and I might put Laura on the spot here a little bit but um so the MPCA started regulating saying that we need to dredge ponds and originally in like two permit cycles ago they were going to require the cities to do the dredging. they backed off and just said, "You have to have a plan for how you're going to do the dredging." But at the time there was a pretty high concern that the um contaminants in the soils were going to be really expensive to dispose of. And I think what you probably could speak to is how it's played out in reality is it hasn't been as expensive. So maybe you could speak to what that is about.

I can try to for sure. Um, one generally, um, for maintenance activities on ponds or infiltration basins, there generally aren't many like there aren't grant funds or other things, um, that could help fund those. Um, the maintenance activities are often excluded. Um, however, th those are activities that the city's um, storm water utility funds. Um, and the contaminated soils that pop up in storm ponds we're seeing aren't terribly expensive to deal with. They're more expensive than if they're not contaminated. Um but just a couple of years ago um the guidance changed for kind of the level of contamination and what could be done with there are three uh three management levels of sediment based on how contaminated it is and the levels um between two and three which are three is the most contaminated um bumped up a little bit. So, it we've found it's not the contaminated sediment hasn't been a huge factor in a lot of um ponds we've worked in, which is great. And um as for filtration basins in particular, that media does have a life cycle and so will need to be replaced. the estimates I've seen have varied really widely from like every five years to every 20 years. Um, and so I think it's it's likely somewhere there in the middle that all all the sand and filtration media will need to be replaced. Um, we we've installed several of these now in cities throughout the metro area that are starting to get to the older side,

not 20 years, but maybe 10, 15 years. And uh, well, I recently had a city had did some testing on their filtration basin to see is this removing pollutants and it was doing great. they thought they were it was time to replace that media. Um but it looks like they'll still get another five to 10 years out of it. And so that can be variable for sure. Um but there there is research continuing to come out about the life cycle of filtration media um and infiltration basins that will hopefully help you program well those reoccurring maintenance costs.

Very good. Thanks. I'm gonna look to city manager Dana Hardy. We have been planning for this in our CIP and our storm water management plan for a number of years already. So, we are not going to be caught flatfooted on this. So, I just want to confirm,

mayor, members of the council, yes, that is correct. We have been um and that was part of the conversation that we just have with the budget um your last budget workshop. Um, so making sure we've we've put staff in the in our in the storm that are responsible. Now we are staffing that they're doing those proactive um proactive maintenance and other um activities associated with that. So we are starting to build that fund. So when we're when we need to do these maintenance or if we need to address dredging um that we're building that fund over time. Good. Thank you.

And mayor, I'd just add that it from my perspective, it's pretty exciting that we have this actual plan out for the next several years. So, um I'm excited to be able to actually communicate with Trish. Uh this is what we're going to do and then of course to respond to residents. So when they call, we can say you're not programmed in these four years or we're looking at programming you. Um, so I think that I think that's a great thing. So it's been great having Laura and WSB do all the work that they did to get us to this point. So

great. We we do appreciate that, but you will forgive me if I don't share that excitement. It's not one of the things that I get real excited about. All right, council. Any further questions, comments for these? I I think comment-wise, uh I think we I'd like to put to council further thoughts on when the filtration basins come up for getting maintained that we get an estimate of what it would take to have them look like the picture that's in front of us so that we can make a decision about do we want to have that additional spend in the reconstruction to have something that looks like an abandoned and sand traps by Andy's Golf Course or we want them to have, you know, a more prairie look that we're known for in our wetland areas.

Yeah, good. I see lots of nodding going along here. So, okay. Yeah, I think that's a fair request. All right. Thanks. Anything else from the council? All right. Seeing nothing, we want to say thank you very much. That is the only item on our agenda this evening for discussion. There's no action necessary on that item and there are no more items on our workshop. So with that I will take a motion to adjurnn. Motion to adjurnn. We have a motion. Can I get a second? Second. Have a motion and a second. All in favor signify by saying I. I. Any opposed? Motion carries. We stand adjourned. We will reconvene.