Historic and Architectural Preservation Board - Regular Meeting

All right. Thank you, Amanda. All right. We'll go ahead and open the April sorry, 05/14/2026 meeting of the Historic and Architectural Preservation Board. Can we have a roll

call? Here. Ms. Trammell? Present. Ms. Moore?

Present.

Mr. Stuckey?

Here.

Mr.

Thank you very much. All right. We'll go ahead and look at approval of the minutes from 04/09/2026. Is there any any provisions or modifications that anyone has? Seeing none, I'll entertain a motion to approve the minutes.

So move. Second.

John Stecchietti moves and seconded. All in favor?

Aye.

All

right. Opposed?

All right. The minutes are approved. Are there any general audience participation today? There is Anyone signed up? No? All right. We'll go ahead and move, to the public hearing. We have a design alternative for a fence height exceeding six feet. PLAR 20 Six-one Hundred 32 At 417 Nassau Street South. Staff is Brittney Smith, is our planner.

And Sam Hardy, AIA, is from BB Design Studio is the agent. The applicant is Sam and Anna McLean Joynson. This is a quasi judicial hearing, and our attorney might have to query here.

Yes. Does anyone have any conflicts of interest? Does anyone has anyone had any ex parte communications or knowledge about this application in advance? No. All right. Then we can proceed.

Excuse me. As chair, I have a conflict of interest regarding this because my son-in-law owns the Baby Design Studio and so I have to recuse myself at that time.

Okay. So you're recusing yourself and you'll fill out the form we have for recusal?

That's correct.

Thank you. So will you be passing the chair

duties? Do I pass now or later?

Yes, can go ahead and pass now.

All right. Thank you. Do

you have memorandum about the advertisement?

I do. Yes, I do. Thank you. This

is certify that the public hearing for this petition was appropriately advertised on 04/25/2026, as required by the City of Venice Land Development Code. Proof of publication is on file in the Planning and Zoning Office. We will officially open the public hearing. Do we have any speaker cards? They've been completed.

Yes, I have the speaker cards.

Okay, thank you. She already did that out of order, okay. I just don't want to lose anything. Okay, staff report.

Okay. So Britney Smith for the record planner for the City of Venice. I have filled out a speaker's card. So we are here today to talk about 417 Nassau Street design alternative for the fence height exceeding six feet. In Chapter 87, Section 7.10.9D, Fences and Walls, design alternative is an option for the fence to go up to eight feet.

The applicant has submitted a drawing and they're requesting this design alternative for a small portion of a privacy wall directly on the front of the house where that gate is to be eight feet above the finished grade with the remainder of the fence being six feet eight inches which is also still subject to this design alternative approval. So I can go ahead and show you where the eight foot portion is here on the overhead. Okay, so it's right here where the gate is that would be the tallest portion of the fence And then this is the overall site plan and the bold black line that you see going around the perimeter of the lot here, that is the six foot eight inch portion of the fence that they're requesting the design alternative for as well. And then in the staff memo that is attached to the agenda, you'll see the design alternative considerations that you have. I won't read them all out but they are listed there for your review and they have been included in your agenda packet.

Are there any questions for me for this particular project?

Yes. So as a department, when you measure height for fences, are you calculating it as the average grade and then that sets the height for the fence typically or I just want to understand what the proposed how it's calculated on the department's behalf when you review it?

To my knowledge it's just the actual height of the fence from the finished grade on-site.

Okay. Okay. Thank you.

Any other questions for staff? Okay, thank you. We'll now listen to the Mr. Hardy.

Good morning.

Sorry, I'll

get settled in here.

Good morning. For the record, my name is Sam Hardy with BB Design Studio Architects. This is this portion of the wall is I guess sort of a continuation from the previous approval about a month and change ago that we reviewed. And as the city stated, it really is a portion Can we get the overhead projector? Yeah.

This is the portion of the wall. And I apologize if the city mentioned that perimeter wall, the intent was for it to be six foot eight. The intent for the rest of the walls to be six feet which is consistent with zoning and the rest of our code. Six foot perimeter wall, not six foot eight. So my presentation is more focused specifically on this portion of the wall that gets up to eight feet over this gate and then you can see here on the edge there the remainder of the gate is, the remainder of the wall is to be a six foot tall wall.

So that's the intent. I don't know if we have to modify something on there or put a stipulation or however we want to handle that, but just for a little bit of a background, the way that the actual code reads is fences walls shall be between three and six feet in height or as specified by the zoning district. And way that the muni code reads on walls and you know, obviously the the city is more of an expert than I am about the muni code. But the height restrictions are defined by where they are located whether it's in the front or sides or rear setbacks. This specific portion of the wall which is at eight feet is actually within, it's not beyond the building setbacks.

So it sits within the building setbacks. Some of the examples that I wanted to show you today of where there's historic precedent for this sort of architectural move could be considered what thin walls or building accents or features. So there is a little bit of a you know possibly a discussion about at what point does a portion or feature of wall turn or feature of the house, a thin wall on a house turn into a wall and at what point is it a wall? And so I would argue that's probably where the side yard setback starts. That's where the six foot of that wall starts.

If you're within that setback, it's a part of the house. So you know from our interpretation interpretation, and from our understanding, this because it sits within the building setback, it probably does comply with the underlying zoning. That being said, as a for a design alternative for having this feature on the house, there one of the driving factors on this versus just having a break or an opening in the wall is to just add some architectural interest and and also I have some examples, some good examples of historic precedence in the VHP and I have paper. This is 332 Ponce De Leon. I'll speak into the microphone.

332 Ponce De Leon, 1926 House, gorgeous example. And they, you can see at the entry gate they have a portion of this the same move covering the the gate, this metal gate with a leading into a portion of wall and it's it's capped with an accent material. That accent material is the same color as the barrel tile, but it's not barrel tile, it's a little bit of trim. That's along the front and then actually in the side yard, they have the exact same feature which is more similar to kind of what we're proposing here because that is a move off the side of the wall that then connects into a perimeter fence. So very good example in this 1926 house.

Probably the most compelling precedent is actually along the same street on Nassau Street. There's some beautiful historic homes on Nassau Street. 405 Nassau Street. You can see that there is a very similar architectural move off of the side of the the the front wall. It acts more like a thin wall.

I don't believe it connects into a fence. It might on the side, I'm not real sure. And then this is a That is a blow up of that feature off the side of the house. And then they have that wall continues on the other side capped with that barrel tile. Next door to 417 is 421 Nassau Street.

So just to give a little context, the proposed design alternative of that wall will actually sit next to this little portion of wall. And they will not be in plane with each other, so our proposed wall will kinda sit forward slightly from this wall. It's it's tucked back slightly from the front. But it's what we're attempting to do here with this design alternative is really to kinda pay homage to this original feature on this house which does connect into their privacy wall as well. So beautiful house, very similar detailing.

Just moving quickly, some of the houses on Harbor, 505 Harbor Drive is actually a really interesting case study specifically because their interpretation of that same move, this is an original 1926 and the the opening there is just, it's a it's integrated in a portion of the house. It's made to kind of look like some of these other fin walls and it's kind of integrated into a an opening and you can see they have a, it's hard to tell, there's a single barrel tile on that feature. It's very interesting. And I have obviously multiple examples, of also similar perimeter walls on 325 Street of some historic examples. And then obviously we have, I've done this move before playing, trying to play off of the same architectural trends at the old Betsy Museum.

We incorporated a small thin wall detail that just gives a lot of character to what otherwise would be more of a flat side. Just some visual interest. So that's our proposal for this design alternative. Do have any questions?

Can you put the elevation back up please?

It might be in the packet. I don't have

The elevation that you had just shown, the dimensions of the Oh, sure.

There you go. So the eight foot is just at the top of

the arch? The eight foot is just the top of the arch.

Okay. So to the right, it's basically around six foot?

Yes.

And to the left, it's seven foot?

Correct.

What's the width of that left side? What's the width? Yeah, if you're looking at the gate going in to the left, what's the dimension of the left side of that wall?

It's roughly 2.5, three feet.

Okay, alright, thank you. You.

Any other questions from the board? Okay, thank you. Thank you. Do we have any audience participation on this? No we do not. You. Any other comments from staff?

I do just we wanna clarify that the application materials they will need to be updated because on the plan set that six foot eight inch fence is what is shown and that will need to be submitted with the six foot height for the design alternative to not have to apply to the perimeter fencing.

Okay, thank you. Does the applicant need to do any rebuttal?

No rebuttal I guess if we can make that a stipulation or something like or update the we're willing to update the packet. The perimeter fence as it's I just checked the construction drawings because they're ready to be submitted and it's shown as a six foot wall. So we're not asking for any variance or anything on that. We can update the packet however we need to do that.

Okay, thank you. In that case I will close the public hearing and the chair would entertain a motion.

Madam Chair. Yes. Based on the presentation, Historic and Architectural Preservation Board moves to approve the applicant, the application number LAR230

stipulated.

A second.

Okay we have a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed say nay. Mr.

Chairman I do need a roll call vote on this hearing.

Roll call?

I do need to do a roll call. Sorry.

It's okay. Forgive me. You need to put that note in there so I can stop forgetting.

Thank Okay for a roll call vote, Mr. Watkins?

Yes.

Ms. Trammell? Yes. Mr. Barrack?

Yes.

Mr. Stecetti?

Yes.

Ms. Moore? Yes. And Mr. Green?

Yes.

Thank you. Motion passes. Okay. In which case I will eagerly wait for Mr. Beebe to break back in so that I can hand the gavel back to him.

Well, our security works. Alright. Thank you very much, Gene. Appreciate that. Alright.

There we go. Alright. We'll move to

the next application. It's a new single story office building for a Catholic Community Foundation of Southwest Florida, PLAR2600113 at 205 Harbor Drive North. Our staff member is Nicole Trembley, and agent is Mr. John Holtz, of Holtz Plunkett Reich Architects. Catholic Church, the Foundation of Southwest Florida is the owner. And again, this is a quasi judicial hearing, so we are querying the board. Maybe if the attorney can Good morning.

Does anyone have any potential conflicts of interest for this application that need to be disclosed? No. Seeing none if anyone has had any communications about this application that are not presently part of the record, please disclose those at this time. Okay, none, you can proceed.

All right, thank you. All right, This has been properly advertised. This is to certify that the public hearing for this petition was appropriately advertised on 04/25/2026, as required by the City of Venice Land Development Code. Proof of publication is on file in the planning and zoning office. All right. Go ahead and open the public hearing. And is there anyone speaking on this in a general public? No?

Have the speaker cards for the applicants and Okay. The

you, Amanda. All right. We'll go ahead and introduce Ms. Trembley. How are

you? Thank you. Good morning. I'm doing well. Good. So for the record, Nicole Trembley, Senior Planner for the City of Venice. We are looking at 205 Harbor Drive North. So here it is, kind of between Barcelona Avenue and Sarasota Street with Epiphany Cathedral across the street and some other residential and office nearby. And this is a CAC for a new building, as the chair mentioned, new single story office building for Catholic Community Foundation of Southwest Florida. They're in the Venetian themed district but it's non residential so all of the VHP standards apply.

You can see the aerial map here, see a little better about the types of buildings that are around it. And then brief description, so right now there is a building on-site. It's older but it's not Nolan era, 1959. It does not include elements of the VHP style at this point but they are proposing a new building that does. Their building is one story, a little over 2,000 square feet and it will house the administration activities of the Catholic Community Foundation.

They're proposing a roof that is metal barrel tile with the terracotta color. Building materials include a stone base, stucco and an off white color and then they have other decorative features like recessed arches, projecting bays and an aluminum cross to kind of denote the Catholic nature of the use and then brackets with a stucco finish. This was reviewed by Planning and Zoning as well as the Historical Resources Manager. Historical Resources had no comments as this is brand new construction. So some of you all saw this in January.

I think this was our first pre op meeting ever. It was. So that was nice. But there was some discussion about different elements to change or to rethink, one being the windows, the proportion of the windows and whether there should be divided lights even though those are not a non residential requirement. Some of this neighborhood has more of a residential character.

There are offices around but they're kind of smaller scale, kind of look like houses, so that was one of the board's considerations. Another was details on materials and colors so the bracket details were requested including some material samples because there were concerns about having it be too shiny of a metal or having it be too soft of a material that could be damaged by birds. And then another concern was the stone base that was originally proposed. It was pretty thin across the bottom and the board wanted to see that feature stand out more and final color selections also needed to be made. So for this submittal, they have expanded the stone base as requested and that kind of removed some empty space between the windows and the base.

The windows on the north include mullions and the look has changed now that they go to the base. And material details have been provided in the submittal along with colors and finishes, and I saw in the room here we also have physical samples that the applicant has brought. So here are the photographs of the site as it exists today. This is the Mercy House residence. I'm not sure if it's still in use actually but this is the older building that's there now that will be demolished.

And then you can kind of see the neighbors here. These are I believe the offices for our mother's house and then the residential is behind that. And then here's another realty office directly to the south. And then you can see across the street, here's the view across the street of Epiphany Cathedral and some other office buildings I believe. And then this construction, so pretty much every element of the VHP that could apply to a non residential use is relevant here.

So I won't read you all the code sections but if you have specific questions about them I can bring them up as we go. And so for decision criteria you only have one for new construction CAC. It shall incorporate the design characteristics of the BHP style. So with that I think there's enough information for you all to make your decision once the applicant presents but if you have any questions for me please go ahead and ask.

Any questions for Ms. Trembley?

One. Sure. So applicant the is proposing a barrel tile metal roofing.

Yes.

So our requirements is clay, terracotta, concrete roof tiles. A design alternate may be submitted. So this should this be in the motion classified as a design alternate?

No. So I think you might have an older version of the code if you're looking at your printed version because we did change that maybe a couple of years ago actually. So right now what it says, if I can put it up on the screen, so permitted visible roofing materials, clay, terra cotta, concrete, composite and alternate materials that are substantially similar in appearance and profile are also permitted by Wright. So we don't have to do a separate petitioner approval for those. Okay. Thank you.

It was that way for many years, but we modified that. All right. Any other questions for Ms. Trembley? I really do appreciate the fact that they went to the trouble of doing the pre application review with us. I think it was very helpful. Hope it was to them. So we're interested to see what they're presenting. So thank you. Yes.

I think it was a good choice. Yes. Thank you.

All right. Any audience participation for this? If not, let's hear from the applicant.

Good morning members of the HAPB and members of staff. Thank you very much for your time. I think we have the presentation here. Is it I'm sorry.

Yes, it was on the agenda.

Okay. Could you I would sorry. I did not bring a hard drive. I have the materials behind us. As we're prepping this, we did bring the materials. Okay. Wonderful. Thank you. It's a big file. Excellent, thank you.

So as it was stated by the planner, the existing building is to be demolished, it is not occupied. So first and foremost, we won't be having to remove folks from the building. In our pre op, we presented this board as well. And you can see in the lower right southeast corner is the proposed 2,149 square foot office building with the parking civil engineer has provided all the requirements for parking and the turning radius required there. You can see the setbacks as well.

Here is the updated design, we'll get into the elevations more closely. You will note the higher belt line course, the base course of stone on the building is aligned with the building to itself. You'll probably also see the choice, it was recommended by this group to add more window divisions. The owner, Diocese of Venice, we did present those options to provide more muntins. It was felt by the Diocese of Venice and Catholic Community Foundation that adding those additional divisions really took away from the design appeal of the cross and the connectivity back to the cathedral.

So we're appealing the Board for not including those at this time. You'll see the terracotta style roof at the hip, which substantially matches our mother's house offices to the north. Here's a floor plan. Largely the same that we presented last time, we did move the restrooms around to make them more accommodating for public yet still hidden from being able to be very obvious. So all of the public areas.

So if you follow my cursor, the main entry coming in underneath the arcaded area and then into the reception, the main public areas being the reception and the conference room. Reflected ceiling plan, important that the exterior, we want to draw attention to that outdoor area. We have just two small can lights LED matching the correct color temperature of the area on the outside to not block the signage of the exterior. Importantly, the roof plan, you see that as a four twelve hip roof over the taller portion of the building. Also because this is a commercial building more on a lot that's more than 50 feet wide, so we have two very important elements, two building blocks that make up the design.

Also the one could contend that the covered porch element is substantially another building element. And then here we are in the front, the east elevation, you see the lower portion, the flat roof with its cornice line or it's I should say it's parapet and then the upper roof element topping out at 22 feet with the four twelve pitch, you see the terracotta metal roof evoking that clay tile appearance. The stone base, the medium gray cross and the window divisions that we are proposing still substantially divided at the west end of I should say the south end of the building in three parts. Again, really a subtle way of evoking the Trinity for our Catholic faith for the Diocese of Venice and Catholic Community Foundation. And then at the main room with the cross, those divisions, still quite a bit of division happening there to make up that composition.

Again, I have the materials, the building is stucco above this belt line of the stone base. It shows up a little bit creamy here on the screen so that you can actually see it as a building, but it's quite white similar to the cathedral. Also since the last presentation, the owner was not our client here was not particularly interested in the adding the tile to the building. So we developed an idea where we would actually add more windows. So we felt this was an upgrade trade to meeting the VHB's requirements.

So this facade which has this is the south elevation, which is largely blocked by the neighboring building, but you can see it obliquely with the three relief articulation bays bumping out. Even the storage room, we were providing a vision glass window. And as the windows march along in their profile, these are narrow windows as typical in a Mediterranean environment with their arch elements above and their own individual parapet elements above that. And then finishing off the roof line, the parapet whereby the drainage of that roof is all to the west end with scupper details. You see also in this view the arch of the entry porch element, the arcade that you walk under to the main entrance.

And now we're looking at the west elevation, which is the rear yard, pretty good backyard view. You're seeing how we have added interest to that elevation. We've created, again, more of a tripartite based design, I should say, element to the tall portion of the building and then capturing the scupper capturing the water with these scuppers, three of them in between the two bays. These are four offices. Yet as we've grouped them together, you see the marching of five windows across that west elevation.

The east elevation simplified with the grouping of we have the mechanical room, it's really the business end of the building toward the back, which is less seen. And we're seeing the window and the door from the kitchen area and the grouping of windows in the bay for the main conference room. And you see the patterning of that bay which is consistent across the south elevation to the north elevation. Here are the two renderings that you've seen originally now updated. The brackets conversation on the brackets and we have shared the details.

These are not made of metal. We are going to build these out of foam and have them stucco with the reinforced stucco treatment. This seems to work very well in this environment. Wasserman Ulyskie was a building that we designed East On Laurel. And while it was not part of this district, the Portofino group did adopt this district, many of its requirements.

And so those brackets satisfied that group and we believe that these would be acceptable here. So it would be a we would provide a smooth stucco finish just to show that differentiation between the main body color and the main texture of the building to that upper area. Here's another view. And again, the connection of the sidewalk to the front sidewalk, very important, create that pedestrian connectivity back to the building. Here you are now seeing the more of the bright white nature of the building in full sun.

And as you go to the top of the building, that freeze line that sets up the hat of the upper hip roof with its brackets. And the brackets also or corbels, we can call them brackets or corbels as they're smaller marching along on the entry arcade. Here's the materials board and I did bring these materials so you can see that what we are presenting is truly what we are specifying. I want to make note of the two window IG units. The bulk of the building will be the SolarBand 70 window insulated glass unit.

We are suggesting recommending that the east facing glass because of the heat absorption that would otherwise take place and the glare in that room to upgrade that to the optic gray tint. And so we put that here for your consideration. The stone is the same limestone that we're building on the cathedral and we have brought that sample caveat being the backer board, we're not using that same assembly. This will be a full stone piece. It will still be the thin, I think it's one or 1.25 inches, will not be the three fiveeight, but it will not have that insulated sort of lightweight backer piece.

The stucco color and stucco finish, I have brought those as well. Just a slightly warm white for the stucco color. The stucco finish, I just met with Michael Morse and before this meeting, we are proposing in this packet the medium stucco. We conferred we want to do the fine stucco. So I have both of those here and if that's an administrative change, we certainly want to do that.

And then of course, I think it's very important that we brought this piece with us, the Decra metal roofing, the Capri clay. This is same product we're using on multiple diocese of Venice church projects. It really does stand the test of time. I believe it's on the Diocese of Venice main office building as well. And then finally, the clear anodized mullions for the building, which allow it's important for us to see the window glass in the daytime.

Darker mullions with glass in the daytime, you just see black and you don't see that definition of windows. So we felt it's important for the neighborhood that these mullions are clear anodized and largely when they're in the sun, they tend to look white. So the white with the glass, you get that articulation and we believe that's very important. Moving along here, that's it for this presentation. I believe in your packet you do have the details. Think planning stated as much. I did bring a detail sheet that I could put up on the overhead if the members of the Board would like to see that. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you very much, Mr. Holtz. A very thorough presentation. And there's not a lot of questions, don't think. But I will say that we really appreciate the thoroughness of your presentation and being able to come to the pre application. Hope it was helpful to you. It was. I think it was for the Board. So any questions for Mr. Holtz about this application? Think you've done a I really I'm John. Apologize. The

equipment location is where?

Thank you, Mr. Barrick. Great question. While not shown here, and I don't know if it's in your packet, but I can tell you, so the equipment it's probably better to show you on this plan. So on the bottom of the page, there's where it says B6, that grid line and the P3.

Believe there maybe Dan, you might even have this. No, I think I'm B6 on the top of the page by the mechanical room between grid lines B and B0.6 should be the condensing units for the building, building, I I believe believe two, two, five five ton, ton transformer I believe is located out front. Let me see if I've got I do have the site plan board if you allow me. But I can say with near certainty the condensing units are around to the back and we always locate them not in front of windows. So with the mechanical room, if you follow my cursor, probably even between west of the door and near grid line B.

Okay. We have a screening requirement that a wall, you don't see that equipment from the street.

Certainly.

So that will need to be added to the project. Okay. The door that that's going to be a window manufacturer manufacturer product, the front, the two doors that have the glazing centered.

Let's go here. Are we talking about this door?

The front entry

Yes, front entry door and then you have the side door on the north elevation

that's repeated appears. Certainly, yes, these would be Miami Dade rated most likely and we should have had a material sample. These would be either a true door, might have the name incorrect there, but or special light. It's an aluminum door where there is a vine, not a vinyl, but a veneer inlay that evokes a wood color, could be walnut. And then the side door, let's go to the side door, would be the same. So we would need to provide those sample materials.

So you're using the YKK product on all the glazing and then that the sidelights on the front there, they'll frame down and then you're gonna put a different type of door in there for the front entry door is what you're stating?

Yes. So it's blocked by this column, this arch. You can barely see the color of it and we're proposing a wood look material so special light makes a door that fits in a curtain wall system.

And that would be some mahogany type finish?

Yes. I think there's four available. I don't know if I'm able to get on what a website from here?

That's all right.

Oh, you're I just

want to clarify

what it is

and then have information to the packet.

We will add that information. Yeah, that's a great question. So mahogany or walnut, it would be that deeper wood.

We didn't get the details in our packet that you mentioned. The cap that for your stone look material that extends looks like it extends from the wall pretty pretty far.

Let me bring that. I can put that on the overhead.

I was just curious to what extent that is is coming out.

What if I bring can I bring it up front?

Yes. Sure.

That'd be great.

It's easier to do. Whatever is easier. Okay.

So we're talking about this detail here.

Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. Alright. Those are great.

Yeah.

That's great. Thank you.

Primary color 75%, a secondary color 20% and then an accent color 5%. So we have a gradient of color for the building typically.

Certainly.

And that there is no deviation between residential residential and commercial on that requirement as I understand it. So you're seeing as I just understand that you're it's all white?

All the same. I think you have a And and you have a different material though at the base. So you have effectively a different color.

Well, it's you know, that matches the material requirement that we have, but I think color is different as far as paint color. You have opportunities, plenty of opportunities to throw another color in and kind of add a little bit of interest.

A little zip.

Yeah, maybe it's a close shade to white but it's a slightly

Toe nigh tone. Or

the entry, note the entry better with Okay. A different

So it's the requirements is that the body color itself, not just the materials because our interpretation obviously being different was that the base was a color and the top gray banding at the freeze was a color, but that's not the correct interpretation is what I'm hearing.

I'm just based on your submittals, you have you show the stucco finish, which is a rough finish that's changing to a sand finish. And then you show stucco color being white, but you don't show any of the other two colors that meet our requirements of 20% or some architectural element, so to speak, and then 5% as an accent color.

Okay. So I wonder if, as you mentioned, Mr. Barrick, at this entry where I'm circling a tone on tone and then where naming rights is occurring that could be?

Yes, plenty of opportunities to deviate that in the project preferably all four sides you know you carry it through.

To attain the 20%?

Yes, sir.

Okay. And then the five

which Yeah, that might be a little you

know Trickier.

With an accent color. You could say maybe those little arch, those created arches above the linear storefront windows that you have, the tall windows, maybe you splash in a little color there at least on the front elevation. Yes, you

We'll figure something out.

Think you're Well qualified architect, so I'm sure you would.

I mean we do have the gray that you've already shown. That is a different color, correct?

Could that be the 5%?

Yes. Well, I mean we just don't have in our packet.

Agreed. Agreed.

So that's the elevations appear to appears from my view as one color everywhere.

Yeah. That's that is correct. It is one the the stucco body color is one color.

I mean, this is the gray that you've mentioned at the band banding at the freeze, you know, it's just in shadow. I'm assuming that's going to be white based on

Oh, no. That is gray.

No. That's So

that freeze could then be used as the third.

Yeah. That might be the accent there.

Okay.

We just need that color in the Called out.

Sure.

Alright. Thank you. We'll do that.

As they go out, know, as the, you know, our staff goes out and checks it during construction, they're gonna, you know, wanna know what that is so they it matches. So they have something recorded.

Certainly. To confirm.

All right. Are there any other comments for the applicant?

I have one. On the parapet roof that you have, have you possibility of running tile on top of that for kind of an accent, which is so much of one color that the roof tile and so on a lot of times in houses and in buildings when you have a parapet, you run a tile across the top of the parapet just to give another kind of accent to the building.

So this area here, right, if I'm moving my cursor across?

Yes. A lot of times with a flat roof, it gives a little more accent to the top of the pyramid.

Thank you for that question. Because we're using a metal tile for the main roof and I don't think they certainly don't make a product that I know of that we could use, It'd be difficult for us to try to mix actual concrete or clay tiles for that purpose. And we have this aversion to using actual clay and concrete tiles. So we'd rather not have to do something like that here. We'd be mixing products and materiality.

That metal doesn't come in a single piece. It's not

He has a cap running along the parapet. So it's not going to be the wall and then it turns down and you just have a metal drip edge. There's actually going to be a detailed On

the hip roof.

Piece of trim right there.

Yeah. There's significant shadow line there that really changes that, John. I think it and that's done, in the BHP, but it's typically a more residential application, to do that. This is a commercial building. That would be the from a storm standpoint and leaking standpoint, cap flashing is definitely a parapet flashing is definitely the proper way to do that.

That roof edge detail for the parapet is in your detail sheet, correct?

It is, yes. Okay.

So he's got it in the set.

And the metal trim is a different color than the wall. You know?

Yeah. It's gonna be slightly different. Just slightly Yeah.

You won't see it that much.

Right. So yeah, we're in straight sun here. The this this edge as a gray tone and this edge is a gray tone but the way the sun is hitting it.

The pacer board is that same color though as that metal trim?

Yes sir.

Okay. All

right. Any other comments from the Board? Any questions for the applicant?

I would agree with Mark. Thank you very much. It's Yes, well put great.

Thank you.

Appreciate that.

Very thorough presentation. All right. Any audience participation for this?

No, we do not.

Okay. Any additional staff comments at this time? Sounds like Ms. Trembley is working her way up.

Okay. So I heard three changes that you want to see on the plans or clarifications.

It was clarifications.

Yes, one would be the door material, the other was the colors, I'm calling out the different the mix of colors and then I just forgot the third one as I was walking up here. Screening. Yes, mechanical screening. I've got it written down, don't worry.

So

those are all things I think we could confirm administratively when they resubmit if you all are okay with that. So that's fine with us.

I think you'd be fine.

And the stucco finish, he's mentioned that it's changing to Yes,

it's fine. Okay. I'll make a note of that as well. Thank you.

Right. Yes, that's great. Thank you very much, Nicole. All right. Any other comments by the agent at all? I think you did a great job of presenting. So we'll go ahead and close the public hearing and entertain a motion.

A motion to approve PLA R26-one 113 as presented with the four stipulations that were documented by staff that will be reviewed administratively.

Right. Okay. Do we have a second?

I'll second that motion.

All right. Let's do a roll call vote please. You. Alright. The Congratulations. You have your call. CAC. Good job. It's always a pleasure working with design professionals. I have to say.

It a little bit easier. A little easier. And I think, doing the pre op was helpful to them, I hope I hope. So understanding what the board's looking for. And after all, it is a subjective work we do. So there's many opportunities where the code just isn't perfect for every situation. All right. Thank you very much. All right. We have Mr. Klinghammer today.

Morning. For the record, Harry Klinghammer, historical resources manager for the City of Venice. And you should have had in your packet the draft copy of the Phase two Edgewood and Seaboard Historic Structures Survey report that we had done through Chronicle Heritage as part of our grant from the State of Florida. So this was an opportunity for you all if you had any comments. Now I will point out that at your June meeting, Chronicle Heritage, the contract, the consultant will be here to present their findings.

So this isn't necessarily looking at the final product that you're here. It's just that is there anything glaringly missing or other comments you might have that I could pass along back to the consultant before they come here in June for their presentation?

Does anyone have any comments on that? I'm not sure.

Yes, it's a lot of information.

We haven't done that many surveys that we had input on.

So at the June meeting when they present,

we have more time to

really get into it and absorb it better from my standpoint. For the

former ARB members, we didn't do a lot of historic preservation. We haven't seen these surveys, so we're more attuned to looking at doors and windows and roof tile than

Than 184 historic structures surveyed?

And anything over 10 pages is a lot. So I don't really have any comments.

That was a lot of reading.

I'm telling you.

So That did not include the Florida master site files for all 184 properties that will also be part of this report.

But

it will give us a good record of an expanded Edgewood area and our first look at what we have going on in the Seaport District.

Right. The one thing interesting about Edgewood, think, is that it was not, to my knowledge, was the worker housing area, smaller properties, different character than anything else that we've ever studied, significantly, I think. So, and and it also, in my mind, has been the least maintained. So there's I hope the survey would show, give us some enlightenment there about these areas, and what what can and should be done. Maybe they give recommendations as well, but I know that it's it's hard because a lot of the fabric that's over there has not been maintained.

So it's tough. But it's something that I'm sure they will bring out in the report.

Right. And in fact, just one quick fact from the survey. So they did do 184 historic resources, including 143 newly identified historic resources, primarily because we're looking at seaboard for the first time. 41 previously recorded resources including seven which are actually no longer with us that have been demolished. So they are updating those files to identify that those buildings are no longer standing.

Okay. Any questions for Mr. Klinghammer about this?

Not that you know necessarily the answer to this. How is this survey, will this survey inform what the planning department and the city want to how they're trying to redefine this area? Will they be abreast?

Well, if you're talking about Seaboard, I mean, yeah, obviously Roger will have a copy of the report, will have copies of all the Florida master site files. Having been someone who's read the draft report, I know that there have been, there were no recommendations regarding any historic resources in the board that were particularly identified or recognized in any way shape or form. So it's more now that we have a record of what is there. So as changes occur, we'll at least have a record of what the baseline was when everything starts.

Specific though to like the Nolan plan and the layout of the streets and that stayed consistent because that's the most remnant of no unplanned that's still left.

Right, right. Yeah, I mean these reports are primarily to be looking at historic structures and ciliary dwellings and things of that nature, not necessarily streetscapes and street layout and design. I know that is part of the National Historic District criteria with the John Nolan plan, but that's the federal designation. This is just more looking at what we have in terms of the built environment in that area.

So it would be outside of their scope to say you should probably keep these streets the Right, way they

right, exactly. And even too for that matter, the John Nolan Plan National Historic District also tends to lean more towards looking at the structures rather opposed to the landscape and the layout. So even there at the federal level, there's uncertainty as to what kind of protections review would be required in terms of any layout that's there currently. But yeah, I mean, as far as trees, landscaping goes, I mean, landscaping was not anything that was identified in either the Historic Resources survey because it was not part of the scope of work or the John Nolan plan of Venice National Historic District because again, they're looking more, it was about the plan, it was that the application itself, the nomination itself was focused more on structures. And as we know with landscaping, it's a living out of it that changes and evolves.

Yeah, I mean, but you know the urban plan, you know this, the Nolan plan along with you know heavily influenced new urbanism.

Right. Right.

When they consider redevelopment, that guidance will carry through to some extent.

Well, it's my understanding that they got some real crackerjack folks working on it who including Bruce Stevenson who's the biographer of John Nolan. I think it's probably in good hands.

Thank you.

The planning director is here.

Sneaking It's only got me up in here. Roger Clark, Planning and Zoning Director. Fortunate for us, consultants that we chose to do the Seaboard Master Plan are huge John Nolan fans. They actually have Bruce Steven Stevenson who was part of their team who pretty much wrote the book on John Nolan. Their plan, their master plan is on our website.

You can look at the master plan that we did over a year ago for that property. And there are no proposed changes to the existing streets, however, we are looking at adding an additional street that goes east west that we're all affectionately calling Nolan Street, which is certainly something that increases the grid network and makes it more walkable which would be certainly a John Nolan aspect. So right now we're working with the consultants there doing the first phase technical plan which is mainly the property that's owned by the city where our public works area used to be and also the the old concrete plant that we purchased. So they're working on the technical plan for that focused area. They are pretty much getting to the end of that and we have them coming to Planning Commission on June 2 to do a presentation on that technical plan.

So that would be something you might want to tune into or attend. And then we're going to have them in front of council sometime I think in July. But that will show what they've done as far as the street design for the new street, also some street design for the portion of Seaboard that's adjacent to areas that we currently own. Also, parcelization of that new street which gives more frontages along there which certainly makes it more attractive to commercial operation and more walkable. So it's really coming out well and we're looking forward to that presentation and getting Roger, that

do you have any idea of the timeline on their completion of the consultants work or

I don't know. Like I said, this part is almost complete. They're gonna have the draft plan in front of Planning Commission here next month.

Next month, okay.

So June 2, they will be doing a presentation and then beyond that, City Council. So they're pretty close to wrapping that up.

Okay. That's exciting.

It is very exciting.

I have been looking at that piece of area since I was in high school and building floats for the homecoming parade in the warehouses. So I'm wondering what in the world we're going to do with this eventually. A neat plan one hundred years later and still talking about it. Yes. Great. Thank you so much for the update. Thank you, Harry.

Any other Don't comments for staff leave, Roger. Yes.

I'd like once again, I guess I'm the guy, I'd like an update. We have five projects that we have approved and we haven't seen anything happen with those projects. Venice Avenue, Miami Avenue across from the library, the circus and the condominium on the corner.

Keeping in mind the one on Nokomis has to go through site development plan. I'm not sure if we completed that process. We did. We did. They had to go through site development plan with planning commission. That one did. Back to the ones on Venice Avenue and Miami Avenue. Good question, I get calls on those all the time. Basically your approvals on those two properties have expired.

Those expired.

As far as your approval of the architectural and the changes to the exterior. So they would have to come back to you for that. The bigger challenge for them and I think it's coming up this June is expiration of the site development plan for 219 West Venice Avenue because the one on Miami was just exterior changes, they didn't need a site and development plan. But the one on Venice Avenue did, that approval is expiring which is kind of important because as you're well aware, you can't build out over the right of way anymore. Not with the vertical support.

You can have a canopy or a covering but you can't come down to the ground out there. So that's important. So that would mean redesign that proposal significantly.

You said that's when?

June? I believe it's coming up this June, yes. I think that's like no.

They can't make that because they would have to come back before us.

Well no, that's the planning commission. They would have to pull a permit to stop that clock. That's a planning commission and two year for that. They do have to come back to you, yes, you're correct for the architectural. They could consider asking could ask planning commission for an extension in order to come back and see you guys. So The one Circus. Circus. The Circus, are anticipating a submittal from them as well as far as once again your expiration of your approvals on that. They have been responding to their site development plan comments. Nicole has been working with them.

So we believe they're still actively pursuing. But yes, did inform them that those approvals that you provided have expired and they need to come back before you as well. Excuse me. Did I hit them all, John? Library. Library. Well that's the one that I said has cleared its site development plan. So we assume that they are submitting permits to hopefully start construction on that at some point.

Okay. They've either expired or they're close, but

there's a few. It's a shame.

It takes a while to develop anything. But especially when you're dealing with, you know, owners who sell properties and, you know, or don't want to go ahead or economy or whatever. Correct. But those are the two properties, one on Venice Avenue, one in Miami are significant interior in the core of our city. So we're waiting to see what happens. May be aware people are. So I'm glad we didn't allow them to take those buildings down and leave us a hole in Venice Avenue. We made the right decision there.

All right. Any other comments for staff? One last question.

We have some more things to cover with you.

Okay. I'm sorry.

Just the condo buildings that are just south of the barbecue restaurant on Venice.

On the Tamiami Trail. Yes,

are left there going up there. Did they we never saw those?

I don't believe so because I think that was before we expanded the

Okay, they got it. The

theme I

was just curious.

See in the blue shutters which look

kind

of I

agree. I mean, yeah, I don't necessarily overall aesthetically.

Yeah.

It's a little different but I don't mind

it. Yeah.

We just never saw it so was just curious.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think think Mr. Chair, I think that Nicole and Harry have some information on the local register forum to talk to you about as well.

Okay, great.

So due to a myriad of scheduling conflicts, the forum was supposed to take place actually this evening, but most of our presenters were actually not available tonight. So we have worked to our best of our ability to try and find a date that meets most people's availability. So we are now looking at Thursday, June 4, same timeframe, 05:30 to about 07:00 for doing the local register forum at William H. Jervie Jr. Venice Public Library in the large meeting space there.

We will have Kara Morgan from Venice Main Street talking about the economic impact and implications of preserving historic downtowns. We are bringing back Joy Builders, who are going to be talking about from a contractor's perspective, working on historic properties here in the city. We have the Clouses who own 640 West Venice and they are going to speak to the ad valorem tax program that they are taking advantage of. We will have Aaron DiFazio from the Sarasota Lines for Historic Preservation talking about the benefits and programs that they offer, especially now that they are looking to launch their loan program out in the Edgewood area. And of course, we will have staff from historical resources in planning and zoning, guiding people through what the process is from beginning to end for getting a property designated and then doing any changes or alterations to that property.

We've also invited some of the other local history organizations to be there. So they'll have information tables there as well for people who want to learn more about those groups. And so we are just kind of nailed this down yesterday. So we will be working soon now on press release and marketing materials and things of that nature to start getting the word out on that.

Okay. So June 4, that has been confirmed or?

Yes, that has been confirmed. So all those people I mentioned, we have them all confirmed for that date. And then John, hope you can make that date as well. But pretty much everyone could not make the fourteenth. So we had to find another date.

Okay, that happens. Alright.

Okay and then so on another topic that's pretty much everything for the forum but I did happen to speak with Beth Martin from Sherwin Williams sometime in the last week or so and just wanted to kind of put it out there that I don't know if she's maybe sent you an email chairman or something but she's ready to work on the color palette if you are. So she just wanted me to kind of throw it out there that if you contact her, she's ready.

Okay. Good. She's still I think the person to do this. Yeah. Resources wise and understanding and history with this board and with the city. I think she's

more capable.

Yeah. Seems like she was looking forward to it. She mentioned being at another store, but I don't know if that was just temporarily because she was calling me about a specific client she had. So I don't know if you know how to reach her but if you don't, I've got her phone number and her email.

Yeah. I'll get make sure I've got a current one Okay. From But that's great.

And we may end up needing to cancel our June meeting because we don't have anything. Oh, do you have something?

Well, we will have the presentation for the Seaboard and Edgewood structures survey.

Okay,

sorry. Okay, we won't have any petitions. So we won't cancel it but we don't expect to have any petitions unless something comes in and is really good and ready to go in the next week or so.

Okay.

And then earlier this week too, we had a brief unveiling and recognition for the local register plaque and listing of the Venice Beach Pavilion onto our local register. So you find yourselves down there. Our public works department made a very nice base and stand for the plaque. So as you approach the building from the Esplanade, you'll

see

it as you're walking up towards the structure. It's very nice.

Nice.

Yeah, was very low key event basically just a council event. Council event. Yeah, that's what I really need. I'm glad Harry brought that up. I do want to bring up one thing. Have any of you been over in the Seaboard area and seen the storage facility that was constructed with the historic pictures on the outside?

I haven't actually seen it.

I would encourage you to go over there, it's at the corner of Cameon And Warfield and we I think I told you originally they were gonna put murals on the side of the building of flowers and birds and stuff and we asked them, how about doing some historic pictures of the seaboard area? So there's a real, there's 14 pictures up there and along with a big sign that says the historic Seaboard District and it shows a lot of aspects of the seaboard issue that Harry and John picked out the pictures looks really cool. Pretty neat addition to that area to kind of start us off.

John, well done.

Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. It looks good.

Thanks for intervening there and we didn't end up with more birds and flowers.

Yeah. Didn't need that.

Don't look like birds.

More dolphins and and shark's tooth. So yeah. It looks good.

Photographs don't lie. Yeah. Okay. Great. I I would also like to say that, for the next meeting, there's a few areas of our code, our guidelines that I'd like to review. One is color, which would tie in with what Beth would be doing. I think there's a couple of areas that we need to tighten up and look at based on applications that have come in. So we just need to take a look at that. That's a Board discussion, and I'll put that on the agenda.

Okay. Good.

All right. Anyone else have anything for today?

I mean, we won't be able to change anything though unless

As long as it's not more burdensome Right. Or

Right. It's

We're dealing with that. Semantics. In every aspect of

Every day.

Almost everything we talk about. So

Okay. Well, as long as it isn't more burdensome. All right. If there's nothing else before the Board today, we are adjourned.