Historic and Architectural Preservation Board - Regular Meeting

Good morning everyone. I'd like to call the meeting to order. Could we have roll call please?

Chair Bibi. Ms. Trammell.

Present.

Ms. Moore. Present. Mr. Stecetti.

Here.

Mr. Watkins. Here. Mr. Green.

Here.

And Mr. Barrack.

Here. Okay. Everyone received the minutes of February 12. Does anyone have any corrections or clarifications for the minutes?

Motion to approve.

Second.

Thank you. We have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Anyone disapproved say nay. Thank you. Minutes are approved. Do we have any general audience participation today?

No, not for general.

Okay, thank you. In which case we will reconvene the public hearing that was continued from February 12. We're seeking a certificate of architectural compliance for a new carport in the historic Venice Architectural Control District, PLAR 20 Six-ten-three 26 Pedro Street. This is a quasi judicial hearing. This is to certify that the public hearing for this petition was appropriately advertised on 01/24/2026 as required by the City of Venice Land Development Code.

The proof of publication is on file in the planning and zoning office. We will now continue the public hearing. Do we have speaker cards for anyone today?

Yes, do have the speaker cards.

Thank you. Mr. Attorney.

Yes. Again since the last hearing has anyone on this board received any ex parte communication regarding this application? No. Please let the record reflect that the whole board has indicated no ex parte communication. And since the last hearing has there been any conflicts of interest that would require you to abstain from this hearing that has come to that has arisen? No. Okay. Please let the record reflect that there is no conflicts of interest as well.

Thank you. We turn it back over to staff.

Good morning. For the record Nicole Tremblay, Senior Planner for the City of Venice. So we have some new information to show you from last time. I'll go ahead and show you on the overhead. We received a site plan. I know that was one of the concerns that you had last time. You weren't sure exactly how this was going to fill up the site. So the applicant has provided this new site plan showing the area of the addition. It's nearly the same size as the Garage 18 by 18 and comes just before the main structure. So there's the site plan.

I don't believe that made it onto your agenda so we can keep that up if you need it or put it back up. That was just given to us a couple of days ago. So another one of the concerns I heard watching over the watching through the last meeting was about the finish on the post. So we do have new elevations. Those were attached to your agenda but we did receive a revision a couple days ago and I was not available to accept them. So I will let the applicant explain why they revised from what's on the agenda but I can show you, can

we zoom in a little right here? So

they're showing the stucco finish on the post now which was a change from last time. And you do have full elevation showing the pitch of the roof which was another concern that I heard in your previous meeting. Do you have any specific questions about what they've provided in the new updated materials on the agenda? Are you ready to hear from the applicant and hear what they have done?

No, I mean, just we don't really carports aren't a qualified building structure under our guidelines. So the picking and choosing of features isn't necessarily you know it's not easy to do to review this.

Sure. Yeah we don't have a specific carport section. We don't have anything that prohibits anyone from adding a carport or applying to add one. But the code isn't written around carports but this still the roof materials and pitch and things like that can be applied. Okay.

I just didn't know you know if it's a circumstance that we're not necessarily addressing with the code and it should be considered a variance of building type covering at all?

No we don't have anything that prevents anyone from applying for it or needing a special approval to get a carport. It's just not something explicitly treated in the code so if you did have suggestions for how we could do that, that's something we could do not within this hearing but outside of it. But otherwise there's no reason that they cannot apply for one at least.

Okay, thank you. There are about five carports on that block already. So it's not like it's an unusual feature.

Yes, I think the applicant has some examples that they would like to show as well of some neighboring carports. Any other questions for me before

we turn it over to

the applicant? Okay, thank you.

Good morning. Please understand that we like the house. We paid a hefty price for it even though it needed a lot of help. We have built houses in Indiana, so my son and I have personally invested a lot of hours and a lot of additional money in this house since purchase inside, outside, and underneath. Just perhaps for our humor, this is what we look like after spending a day underneath.

There's a carport there that most

houses don't have a car not carport. Park. Most houses don't have crawl space and so yes. And and we understand that it will be an ongoing project. We don't want the house to deteriorate and head to demolition.

We want to to keep it alive. Also, my apologies for not being better prepared last month. I was unaware of what was needed. However, last month's meeting was not a total loss because I learned about the approval process and what matters to you. One thought mentioned was along the lines of why do you even need a carport since you are a snowbird and it does not get hot here in the wintertime.

It's true that we are snowbirds, but my wife is a resident of Florida, so we stay here about seven months of the year from the October to the May. So there are many and perhaps even mostly hot sunny days while we're here. I usually joke that being just 81 years old, I am not old enough to live here all the time. But it is coming, so it's a matter of time and we'll be here all the time. Presently, is another reason for a carport.

Five years ago, my wife fell and broke her hip. And then two years ago, she fell and had a compression fracture with another extended rehabilitation. Obviously, I pray an accident such as that does not happen to either of us again, but if it should, a sheltered place large enough to enter and exit the car while involve while involving a wheelchair or walker would be extremely, imparted. Our present situation makes it impossible for the passenger to even enter or exit the car when it's parked in the garage. When I parked the car, they're only two inches between the mirror and the load bearing support post in the in the garage on the passenger side.

On the driver's side opening, it's about 10 and I can get in and out but only because I'm slim and somewhat agile and somewhat in good health. I do have a I don't think you probably have any problem

believing me, but anyway, there's

a picture of of the if I drive it in just perfectly, I can I can have that much room? A carport, I believe, would make 326 Pedro a much better place to live. Another question is whether there were carports in 1926, and I was ignorant about that. But upon checking, we found three here on the island not far from our house that were were putting in in 1926. This one's at 605 West Venice Avenue.

And here's the side view of it, which interesting enough looks like what we planned somewhat. The road view would be much like like this. Then also at 635. Should turn it this way. Okay.

25. There is a carport. You can see the carriage house in the back. And then also at 710 Armada Road is a carport with it. Now a little bit about the design and drawings of the proposed carport.

There's not enough height in order to get the proper slope for the carport to be a lean to style. So we had to go to a gable style much like the front of the house now. So here's our house. The front of it, you can see the gable part of it. So it's not the reason why we can't have another gable.

Guess that's what I'm saying. As was already mentioned, the plans show the support post would be stuccoed like the garage and the house. The roof would be tiled like the house. Eric brought us samples if you want to look at tiles. I don't know if you want to see one or You want to

see those? Yeah. Go ahead and get to it. Here's the color Yeah.

Won't all be broken.

Broken transit, basically you can see it's the same same same material, concrete tile, barrel roof tile, same color. I think it'll match really well.

Thank you. From the road, the trim along the roof edge would show the tile, which you have in your she originally showed you. Since the since the original well, one other thing, I realized that the entrance into the breezeway on our house can't be seen from the road, but the carport would be very similar to the present. So this is the breezeway entrance in the back of our house and so this part that porch there with the carport would look very similar to this. When you would see from the road, would just see this trim much like this trim is.

We have the rake tiles that go over the edge of the fascia like it shows there as well.

Yes, correct. Since the, Okay. The last thing is that since the original build of this house, which maybe some of you have seen this picture, original, There have been several changes. They've changed the porch two times. They had it originally.

They changed it to this design and then we know the design that's there now is the vertical tall windows. And then also they added a porch on the front. Also closed in the side. You can see from the picture there's a side porch that has been closed in also. Obviously, there's an apartment above the garage and then the removal of the back porch and the addition in the back.

So we're seeking approval for, we think, one more valuable and classic addition. Eric is here to also answer any other questions that you might have. Thank you.

Okay. Board members, do you have questions for the applicant?

I have a few. The site plan, could you share that?

Yes. Do they have that there? The site plan.

Okay. So the connection from the main main house to the open aired carport that will be roofed. So what you show is the area No.

There's no connection.

Oh, there's no connection? Okay.

Well, yeah. This the the breezeway porch I showed you that would look like it comes out from the house just a little bit, but

it does not connect. Okay. That's what I wanted to clarify. It seemed like you were gonna extend that and, you know, connect it so that it would be covered from the carport to the main house.

Yes, it

will be a few feet.

It will be attached to the existing garage, the detached garage but not attached to the house.

Okay. So thank you for providing the historic images. They help a lot. Those are auto porticochairs and not carports. Were meant so that as they come from town, they drop off the ladies and the men take the horse and buggy back to the carriage house.

What was the name? What what did you call them?

They're auto porticochets. They're covered entries. Auto porticochets. Okay.

Well, we could change this to auto porticochets. Usually, you

know, they were right off the kitchen and Sure. Yeah. They were as you've shown, they're more of an architectural feature integrated with the main house. Okay. Where yours is being placed onto the existing carriage That's been modified.

Yes. But it's more of a skeletal structure rather than being an architectural integration. But if you were to pull this up front and connect it to that little doorway entrance that you have to the side and just extend that roof out and you know puts more of a masonry solution to this, then that would be more historic and inclined with the of what you showed before with this as an alternate solution. But what you're proposing is more of a skeletal structure. As I mentioned when I was talking to staff, we don't really necessarily have a lot of guidance for this project in our guide guidelines.

Yes, you're doing tile, but we can't see that tile from the street at all. And we see a lot of structure there, visible structure from the street, which isn't It'll

just be the two stucco posts and

rail. I

mean, I meant, maybe I'm interpreting the drawing. Are you so you're spanning the I'm sorry. I have to bring it up on So the elevation, the front elevation, you can see the two garage doors in the back. You see a large beam spanning between the two columns with support diagonal posts connected to those? Are those actually structural or are they just decorative? What's that? The diagonals from the To

my understanding, they actually are structural. Lateral bracing on them.

Okay. So that beam goes back or spans the entry and then you have the two returning back to the garage, existing garage. The diagonals that represent is this being trussed or Originally framed. So those king post and the two, can you explain those a bit that you see in the front elevation, what those are doing?

Okay. So you got the two six by six posts that will support the beam that goes across the front and support the beams that are going back towards the garage. And those are what we're going to build out and then we're going to stock on them so they look like the house. Across the front, you'll have a it's an LVL beam that goes across the front and then there'll be a ridge and then you'll have the center vertical post that goes up, there'll be a ridge beam that goes back to the house from there and then all your roof rafters rafters will fall, be on two foot on center all the way back creating a roof. And then those diagonal braces that you see, again, those are for support to keep it from rocking.

And it's just basically the name for it is an open end gable.

Okay. So I see the structural drawing, that's a section through it. I understand that. But the front elevation there shows that you can see that structure through. Is that correct?

Yes.

Okay.

Yes, that's open air. The only thing you would see would be the vertical on the two diagonals and everything around it would be open air.

So we don't get a lot of clarification on what's happening to that material from a material standpoint, what that front elevation represents at all? LVL beam, is it just wood and that's what you see?

Yes, it's just wood. I mean we'll paint it white like the house because the wood like on his front entryway and everything, the fascia and the Raptors and the bottom of the plywood decking are all painted white. So that's we're going to use the same concept here, paint it all white.

So can we just wrap that and frame it and plywood it and stucco it so you don't see any of that from the street?

That is an option. I mean, we did talk about that and that's up to Tugger. That'll be a little more of an expensive option. But if he's

Yes, I mean I can tell you from my standpoint, don't want to from a store especially historic house seeing structure like this is not within our the latitudes of guardrails of our guidelines for historic precedent at

all. John,

can I add on?

While you're talking about this, can you wrap the top of the roof with a tile that comes over the edge? Yes.

Like you do on the front of the house to match the gable on the front of the house?

Have already planned to do that. It is on the front elevation there. You can see the tiles coming over the edge like it does on his house.

Yes. And I kind of agree with John that you're going to wrap the columns and you're going

to stucco them. I think it would be a really good idea that you also stucco the whole top so that you have a continuous. So the whole face of it, you mean? Yes. The end of the gable that you wrap it all. Okay. And that could certainly be done.

Yes, mean if your existing image there? Correct. If you can follow this precedent, it's much better projects and we'll hopefully blend in as best it can. It's a carport to the existing contacts that you have. Especially, I mean, there's a lot of nineteen twenty six residences on the street. And this was one of the first. And I don't know if you know the story about the house, but I mean the realtor that helped keep Venice intact lived in this house. I mean, it's a very special house.

So mean That's why we we spent a lot of effort and work inside and out and underneath as

I said, you know, to to keep it. Yeah.

That work never stops. Yeah.

Correct. Yes. It's it's it's all the time. Yeah. And and since we we been doing this up in Indiana a

lot of years, we knew that and we can take care of most of the stuff that needs to be continuously repaired.

While you're talking, another feature, how you going to match the color of the house or you're to repaint the whole thing or try to the front of the house or whatever so it all matches? It'll match

the color of the house. Yes. Okay.

Yes. So that stuff that goes on those posts and the stuff that we would do across from the face would all be the same texture that's on the house, same color. So it would blend Okay.

That's fine.

And I thank you for going the extra mile for trying to make this historic appearing add on to your beautiful house. Think you've stretching it and doing a good job. Thank you.

Are there any other questions for the applicant? Seeing none, shall we move on to audience participation?

Yes, we do have one speaker signed up, Michael.

Okay.

Are no further speakers.

Okay. Do we have additional staff comments? Harry, do you have anything to add? Okay.

Thank you. Thank you.

I just wanted to add that if you did want to see a change such as stucco being applied all the way across the top, that's something that we could approve administratively when they turn in a revised plan if you wanted to add that to your motion just a suggestion?

We'll add it to the motion.

Thank you.

Harry, did you have any points you wanted to make sure we knew?

Good morning. Harry Klinkhamer, Historical Resources Manager for the City of Venice. Would just say reviewing this proposal through the Secretary of the Interior Standards, a couple of things that I would point out, again, reviewing through the Secretary of Interior Standards, these are only recommendations, these are not requirements. But one, I would say that when doing the finish for the cart port area, that it should be where it does not look like it was originally there. So there should be some sort of style or design tweak so that it makes it distinctive from the house so people know that it's not original.

And then two, with attaching the carport to the garage with any addition, the Secretary of Interior Standards asked that whatever addition is put on is put on in a way so that it could be removed and the original structure still be there and restored. So those were only the comments that I have regarding the Secretary of Interior Standards.

Thank you, Harry. Okay, do we need any rebuttal from the applicant on any points today?

Okay,

thank you. Do I officially close the public hearing now?

Yes. Okay.

I will declare the public hearing is now closed. We would entertain a motion if any Board member cares to.

Based on the presentation, the Historic and Architectural Preservation Board moves to approve the application number PLR260010 with the stipulation that the front facade is stuccoed to match the house as stated.

Do we have a second for that motion?

And also that condition could be approved by staff administrative ly, just to add

that. Second. Okay. And we have a second. Any further discussion? Second. Second. Thank you, Helen. Okay. All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Vice Chair, I actually have to do a roll call vote on this. I'm very sorry. Roll call

please. Mr. Watkins.

Here.

Ms. Tremoh.

Yes.

Or yes. Mr. Barrack? No. Mr. Stuckey?

Yes.

Ms. Moore? Yes. And Mr. Green?

Yes.

Okay, motion was approved. Thank you. Any further discussion?

I would say that you know from staff standpoint as far as review this is still really unclear to me. So if you have any questions, you'll please come come back as this gets further refined because seems to be a design in progress, you know, rather than a final resolution from what we have as far as the application included in their initial application today and then where we're going to go. It seems unclear to me.

Is this something where in the future we perhaps need to discuss clarified language concerning carports?

Yeah. I mean, this is something very rare in my opinion that we're we're gonna see. It's an oddity. So there's not a lot of context as far as our guidelines are concerned that we can review this. So I don't necessarily think we would need to change regulations to address carports maybe, but that's we can discuss that as a Board and maybe take it up in the future.

Leslie, you want Ultimately again the carports are do require the CAC if it's

a new

one. It's supposed to match the structure, but we may not really be able to change any additional requirements on it and because we're on the moratorium as it stands right now. So we may be just have what we have right now.

John for mentioning

I want to the Porte Cochere and the distinction between that and a carport. A carport you pull under, you pull out. Port Cochere you go through to another part of the property. So it's more like you could do Port Cochere where you are, but you can't go anywhere from it. It would still it would be a variation on a carport. But I was glad you mentioned that because it occurred to me that that's what the photos that you have are completely different animal than a carport. They are lovely, they are classic but they are not carports.

Okay, thank you. Okay, shall we move on to the next item on the agenda, the construction of a new residence in the historic Venice Architectural Control District PLAR 20 Six-twenty Eight-two 49 South Harbor Boulevard. This is a quasi judicial hearing. I get to read the memorandum again? Advertisement of a public hearing.

This is to certify that the public hearing for this petition was advertised was appropriately advertised on 02/21/2026 as required by the City Of Venice Land Development Code, the proof of publication is on file in the planning and zoning office. Thank you. I shall officially open the public hearing. Do we have speaker cards from everyone?

Yes, Vice Chair.

Okay, thank you. Mr. Attorney?

Yes.

Does anyone has anyone received any ex parte communication regarding this application? Okay. Please let the record reflect that the board has indicated there's been no ex parte communication. Does anyone have any conflicts of interest that require them to abstain from voting on this application? Okay. Please let the record reflect that the Board has indicated there's no conflicts of interest.

Thank you. For the record Nicole Tremblay, Senior Planner for the City of Venice. Since I didn't know if we'd have electronic capabilities today I'm going to present this on the overhead. Give you an overview of what they're doing here. So this is at 249 Harbor Drive South, close to us here at City Hall in the historic Venice District and the proposal is to build a new single family home.

The owner is Patrick Riley and they are represented by Beechwood Builders and they are looking for a CAC with no exceptions or variances. So just a brief description. Right now the property is vacant. They did receive a demolition permit for the existing home because that home was not contributing, it was not in the VHP style, it was not a Nolan era home. And so now they're wishing to build a new single family home in the VHP style, one story, nineteen forty eight square feet.

They're proposing terracotta tile for the roof. They're going to do all one, paint color for the body that's one of our approved colors from Sherman Williams Crescent Moon, which you can see on their plans. Their entry door, garage door, and privacy fence are all wooden. They're proposing single hung windows with arched transom windows for the front facade and just the location of the property, you can see there's only one facade facing the street and that's the one along Harbor and the rest are surrounded by other single family homes within the historic Venice Architectural Control District. The historical resources manager reviewed the application and had no comments because it is a new home and then planning did provide comments which the applicant responded to.

So next I'll just show some photos of basically the lot and the homes next door. It was a very sunny morning so the sun's kind of reflecting there but it's a vacant lot right now. Next door there are some homes in the VHP style but they are not like Nolan era, they're kind of recent homes. I don't know if you can see it very well. So a newer home to the north of it.

And then across the street are apartments, I forget the name, they're not in the VHP style whatsoever, but so that's just kind of the context right around it. And since this is a brand new home, mostly all of the residential sections of your code are going to apply including building massing, so this lot is greater than 50 feet wide so part B applies here two different massing forms and two offsetting wall planes. Primary materials applies at a minimum of 90% must be stucco which they proposed. Facade colors, we already talked about the color that they've chosen. Required roofing materials, they were compliant with those.

They chose the terracotta roof with the s shaped profile. Openings include windows, doors, and garages. We don't have a lot of specific requirements for those when it comes to a residential home other than for windows not more than 50% of a residential wall surface shall consist of door, window, and openings and all doors, windows and glazed surfaces should be at least two feet from outside building corners. So those are some of the things to consider there. Then building features, each building it says should have entryway features flushed at the primary elevation with decorative or ornate trim, recessed in a small alcove, sheltered by a projecting roof and covered by a porch, arcade, portico or tower element.

Then there are the recesses and projections and must contain two or more of those elements. And then the decorative architectural features, all buildings must contain one or more of the following, clay, twirl attic vent, recessed niches, wall cutouts, carved by relief ornamentation, decorative iron window grills and ornamental relief designs. So those are some of the things to be looking for. And then finally residential light types and fixtures which should just be decorative and coordinate with the building and they should be dark metal or wrought iron and could be elaborate. So those are some of your key highlights to look out for on these plans and there's really only one decision criteria for you and that is whether it is incorporating the design characteristics of the VHP style.

So with that I will answer any questions you may have and then we can turn over applicant to present their

design. For

the lighting.

And any overall documentation regarding what specifics were being used?

The specific features? They gave the brand name. I don't know that they gave an actual cut sheet. They did give details about the brands of the windows and doors. Lighting may not have been included. The brand they've listed here, Elegant Lighting, Frankfurt two and that's what they've listed on their plans as their brand and style.

And fencing is not part of this?

There's no fencing proposed that I'm aware of. There is that sort of privacy wall over here but no fencing around the property.

Thank you. Sure.

Okay, thank you. Thank you.

Hello, I'm Jeff Gates of Beachwood Builders. This is Zeke Li, our designer from Beachwood Design Solutions and we're here to present a new residence for Mr. And Mrs. Riley at 249 Harbor Drive. The design criteria is a little difficult on this one because the lot is so small and irregular in size.

The other issues are of course meeting all the clients' needs and desires to be their forever home. We feel we've addressed the Architectural Review Board guidelines and we've selected materials and colors from the handbooks that were provided to us by the city. There was a question earlier about the light, although we don't have a cut sheet, we do have the order which would be, it's called Elegant Lighting as a company. It's it's a two light fixture, 18 inches tall for an outdoor sconce. So double light would be a candle candle bra type bulb, so it would look like like a flame.

We've chosen, of course, hurricane rated door for the garage which is quite a large part of the mass of a house of this size. We chose something with a wood grain finish faux so that it would be in keeping with the HR, the architecture review board and we will use the correct stain to match the front door and the side gate so it matches the door. The garage door is the limiting factor for the color of the front, so we've chosen Clopay insulated carriage house design garage door and it's called by Canyon Ridge is the series and the color is I believe they call that

What is

the color?

It's design 12.

Design 12 if we have the book. It's kind of a fruit wood color or a, I call it golden oak, something like that. The roof would be Venetian tile roof selected from the ARB handbook. We would have the cap and ridge tile as illustrated on our drawings. We do have an arch at the front door.

We have some concrete trims at top of the columns supporting the raised front entryway. We have arched windows in the study which faces the street upfront. As far as the ornamental iron elements, we have a period style nonfunctional vent over the top of the garage door with an iron work design, custom design piece of black iron work to go over the vent to look similar to other buildings in the 20s and 30s that we've seen around town. Again, the biggest design criteria is trying to make all this fit on a 7,700 square foot lot and be respectful of our neighbors to design something that doesn't look like it doesn't fit with those buildings surrounding it. So with that, I ask you to approve and we'll answer any questions that you have.

Board members with questions. Now it's your moment.

Okay, a few questions. Our paint Nicole said that the paint color was one color of the whole house?

Yes. We'll probably select something different for the stone trim around the columns, but it will be out of the handbook a color.

Or seven, ten, four, item 75% of the wall surface must be one approved color, 20% must be a secondary corresponding approved color. So painting the whole thing one color is, you know, it needs to include that 20% somewhere else.

So the house body color would be Sherwin Williams seventy one twenty four crescent moon. The fascia would be white and the doors would be the golden oak. I wouldn't call it painted. It's more of a faux

Yes, I mean that's a door finish itself not paint. What we're referring to is actually the painter coming out and painting something. So that's something that we'll need to address. The garage is front facing. This lot is wider than 50 feet. So we want to see that turned 90 degrees so it doesn't face the street Again,

we did try that. We really did, John. We tried to get that to work out but without because the lot is irregular shaped and without having a driveway in front of the front door, it wasn't very easy, it wasn't a desire for the homeowner to design it that way. We really don't have a garage, it's more of a car, it's a storage area, we called it a golf cart garage. Its size is much less than a normal garage.

So I don't want to mix terms here but we really don't have a garage. Do you have to know a store?

It's a garage.

Well, okay.

From a design standpoint, I appreciate how you carried that line of the gable down. I think that's historically that secondary roof line for that just that little piece is nice that you carry that for the passage gate to the rear yard. That's positive, but seeing that garage door off harbor, you know, doesn't meet our guidelines at all. So the just to clarify, the gable lens, I see the ironwork and you show that. You said there's gonna be a vent behind that as well?

That is the ironwork is over a recessed area into the stucco to appear as a recessed vent. I don't know if we have a cross section through that on here. But yes, there will be a recess behind the metal bar to look like it creates a shadow line and it kinda looks like there would be a vent there.

Yeah. I didn't I didn't didn't see a detail on that. K. I see the iron work shown, but nothing other than that.

It will be it's it's an oval shaped opening to create a shadow line.

We will need to get a cut sheet detail on that when it comes to stats review in the field. So the door style is more of a shaker style door for the front door. We show some examples in '7 10 Being

a one panel.

Like if it's a board and batten, I know that this is not a wood door.

It's a thermature fireplace.

Yeah, visually if you look, it looks wood but it's not. But they do make those board and batten style doors that are more resembling If that were the the complex.

The design will be glad to I mean as far as the economy, I don't think it makes a difference which one we buy. If that is something that you would like to see and will help us get through approval, we would be more than glad to do that with the owner's approval.

Okay. I mean it's within reason. This house isn't don't at a problem. No, it's

a legitimate concern.

Can I take a minute?

Yeah, sure.

To me, looking at the front of the house and so on, the garage door, it just seems if you could soften that some way with adding texture or trim around the door, as John said, matching something. As I look at the house, you see the garage door and the rest of the house is almost second thought, but something to soften that area of the house.

The door has raised panels to look like wood crossbars and then between the panels, looks like a tongue and groove type fit for the boards that would go horizontally in those panels. So the door actually has quite a bit of definition. We did spend quite a bit more money and time on the door and we did choose the top of the line clopay insulated. Again, it's a Canyon Ridge so it's the top of the line door that has a lot of dimension to it and it is full finish to look the color that's similar to what's on our drawings. So to put something on it may not be the best thing to do.

If we chose a more simple door and then added panels to it that may satisfy your concern but our issues are always the same. We don't want anything that's maintenance unfriendly. So everything that we chose is to be ten year maintenance free on the exterior of the building so that, you know, it doesn't need to be painted, it doesn't need to be changed and sometimes these panels that you adhere to doors will curl and they won't stay flat and they can be a problem.

Yeah. I understand your concern for the door. We have seen this before on a small lot where you can't turn the door to the side or you can't, you know, the lot just isn't even though the size of lot, it just isn't big enough.

We are getting close to that 50% coverage, lot coverage and if we added any more for pulling the house forward then we'd have to design a retention pond someplace to hold water and we just got into so many this is a snowball that just almost rolled us into a ball and so this is this is what we feel that we can do to meet the homeowners needs and to look the best that we can provide for the street and keep the structure not being something that sticks out like a sore thumb with the neighbors' homes.

Now you've looked at the houses that are built on the South Side Of Ponce De Leon, all those new houses?

Yes, we have.

Okay.

Any other questions for the applicant? Do we have any audience participation on this?

No, we do not. Okay.

Do we have additional staff comments?

Okay.

Sure. So I will say we did not require them to turn the garage I think because of the way the lots of 50 feet or more is worded in the code. It says garages may be side or rear if your lot is greater than 50 feet. I think it's possibly an issue with interpretation because I think maybe you're seeing it as in no case can it be front, it must be rear but if your lot is larger you could do side. I think that's possibly the way it was intended although that was not the way we originally read it.

So I apologize for not requiring that ahead of time, that's maybe something we should have done and maybe we should mark down that interpretation in the future but if they need to vary from that, it's listed as a design alternative only for lots that are smaller than 50 feet whereas ones that are greater it doesn't list needing a design alternative. It just says they may be side or rear.

So It's nuance because it's 50 feet in the back and 80 up front. So if you were to take the average of the lot, it's gonna be over the It's

still greater than 50, yeah.

Yeah. So it's nuance.

Yeah. So I just wanted to clarify why we didn't require them to do that. But if

Would you recommend a variance on something like this that we're doing now? An approval of this to kind of close the loophole?

Don't want to set precedent.

Yeah. It's listed like you said, listed as a design alternative specifically for lots smaller than 50 feet. It's not listed as one for lots greater than 50 feet. So I'm not so sure, yes.

Again to your point it doesn't need to be all design alternative if the lots are greater than 50 feet because it's a May so it's permissive. And I understand because it's oddly shaped and you had the 50 in the back. Now the question does become because the 80 is the one that is street facing. And so I understand why staff went with that distinction as if it's more than 50 feet in the front, that's street facing and everything else is blocked by houses, then I'd probably unless I'm just reviewing the code because unless you're saying something whether we have to take average or we have to, I would be telling you to go by the what is actually being viewed by what's in public view which is the 80, which is the 81. I'm just reviewing to see if we have to do average or if there's any alternatives to going with that route because I think that's the way I would be my legal side how I read it is the way staff reads it.

Okay and the average still of fifty and eighty would be greater

than 50.

So yeah, both ways.

Technically it's 54 so they're even in the back there. Yes.

So yeah, I mean there is no. It's permissive. It's permissive.

Right. So I think maybe it could be up to the board but there's nothing that states that they can't or that they would have to get a variance to do that. Yeah. Thank you.

Is there any further rebuttal by the applicant? No, okay. Thank you.

Another point on this, looking at this and I know whoever did your drawing and so on, you don't have a lot of landscaping in here and I think landscaping would really change all of this. A possibility to put some on the sides or something in your corner of the garage that was higher to break up the front of the building just a little more instead of small plants all the way along there. If you look like you said, you go down around the corner down on Ponce De Leon and all of those have the landscaping that's been done on that has done very well and you might want to consider something like

Okay. Is it all right if I close the public hearing now? Yes. Okay, I officially close the public hearing. Any Board member care to make a motion?

Based on the presentation, the Historic and Architectural Preservation Board moves to approve application number PLR260028 without stipulation.

Do we have a second? Thank you. Any further discussion? All those in favor say aye.

Aye. No. Roll call.

I'm sorry, I keep forgetting that. You need to put roll call on this list of 5,000 things to remember so I remember. Thank you. Could we please have a roll call?

Ms. Moore? Yes. Mr. Barrack? No. Mr. Green?

Yes.

Ms. Trammell?

Yes.

Mr. Watkins? Yes. Mr. Steckerede?

Yes. Thank you. Motion is approved. Thank you. Let us move on to new business. Staff, Harry?

Harry Klinkhammer, historical resources manager for the City of Venice. So we have on the agenda today to begin discussion and planning for this year's local register forum. We do have a site and date. It's

going

to be at the William H. Jervie Jr. Venice Public Library. It will be May 14, which is a Thursday. And we're going to be looking at about 05:30 to seven just kind of based on how it went last year time wise. So with that information, also too, we'll be inviting the historical society to contribute in some way that they see maybe fitting. So with those parameters, I'm interested to hear what this Board would like to have done for a local register for this year.

The crickets. Yeah, I thought I represented the board last year. Happy to do it again. I thought it was very successful and I think a lot of good information was provided for the public that attended. If we can have I think the historical society I think requested to be a part of it as well and any other of our local preservation groups, Venice Heritage, Sarasota Alliance if they're interested.

Advocating for more local register nominations I think would be helpful.

I think that all sounds good to us.

Are there any specific topics that this board would like to cover or are you thinking just the general, this is what historic preservation is in Venice or is again or is there something more specific that you would like to see covered at this forum?

Please. I encounter people a lot of times that say, oh, they should do this or why did they do that and I think that in the public in general there's not a great understanding of jurisdictions of who approves what elements of things, what locations of things, what overall limitations are built in and maybe if there could be something that would just touch on the fact that those kinds of things exist. I've seen applicants come in various of the groups and make an application for something that they have no idea what they have the framework that they need to fit in. So just not to belabor it at this meeting which would be really nice but just to let there be something out there that says that they do exist, that guidelines and limitations and so forth do exist within the city as well as maybe other jurisdictions.

It would be helpful to the general public for sure.

Thank you.

What Okay,

was that the process?

In reference to what Helen was referring to, an outline or summary of those application processes would be helpful to help clarify it for the public.

Can I safely assume that we do cover the importance or the value of the economic development of the city of Venice upon us preserving our historic structures?

We can definitely do that.

Anything else for Harry?

Well, would ask this board if they do want to have representation at this forum that they perhaps designate a member of this board to serve as the HAPV representative. So if there is someone who would like to, that you all would like to approve to be the representative for your group because this is not going to be an HAPV meeting. But if you want representation there, then you will need to approve somebody to represent the board at this forum.

I thought I already heard John volunteer.

Well, it needs the Board's approval.

Is that something Mark would care to do? Since he's not here and can't defend himself? Why don't we ask Mark?

Okay, we can I guess at the next meeting?

Yes,

next meeting will be April. So yes, we'll need to make So yes, if you want to, we can wait for that part to the April meeting to designate a representative of this Board to participate in the forum. Okay. All right. Thank you very much.

And you are the next topic as well.

Yes. So at the last meeting this Board said that they wanted to have a discussion about the upcoming grant cycle from the State of Florida and what potential project we may want to consider next. So I shared with all of you for the small matching grant, the project types is really the key thing for this board to focus on because it lets you know what kind of projects we could apply for grant from the state. Now as a certified local government with the small matching grant program, we will not have to match that grant. It is that match is waived as part of being a certified local government.

So this basically would be a grant asking for money from the state to do a project that meets one of these project types. So So far what we have done, we have done a survey of the Gulf View section, actually that was paid for by the city, approved by the city council to fund that survey. Then we were awarded a grant from the state where we are now doing an historic resources survey of the Seaboard and Edgewood areas. We have been ranked for another grant to do a historic resources survey of Gulf Shores and Golden Beach. We have been ranked and we are waiting to hear how much funding the state will approve for the program.

How that process works is all the grant applications are ranked from first to last. And when the state legislature approves the budget, the money just starts going down the line until it's gone. But we are pretty well ranked, so I feel confident that we will get the funding for that survey. But the next grant cycle starts April 1 and closes June '3, something like that. So if there is a project that we want to fund for, it would be fiscal year twenty seven because we would not get the money until 07/01/2027.

Is there some sort of project, another survey or something else within those guidelines that this Board would like to pursue?

If we continued with surveys, what would be the next area we would want to focus on?

Well, that's dependent on what this board might want to do. Venetio Park was surveyed back in the 80s, has not been done since then. So we could do a resurvey of that area. There's the Bay Shore Estates area and that part of the city that's kind of in the Northwest section. So Heigelville, Bayshore Estates up along towards the jetties.

So there's that area. And there's also still plenty of neighborhoods South of Venetia Park in the kind of the, what's considered the historic Venice area that we have not approached. So there are several options if this board wants to do another historic resources survey.

Does it have to be geographic or could it be about structures? It

could be a thematic survey. So say if we wanted to do a thematic survey of sixty's bungalows or something like that or but yeah, there can be one that's thematic. I I will let you know that architecture of Sarasota was awarded a grant. Well, actually they they are on the same list that we are currently. So and they're also expecting to be funded.

They are redoing a survey of the Sarasota School of Architecture throughout Sarasota County. So I've already been in touch with them. So when they get funding, I've already made available what resources we have and information that we have to that effect. So they are currently doing that. I will also add that they received a grant last year where they did an historic resources thematic survey of mobile homes and manufactured housing throughout Sarasota County.

They're actually going to be doing a presentation on their findings next week. I've seen a preview of the report and there is much interest in actually the municipal mobile home park as being historic. So those are already two kind of theme surveys that are already taking place here in the city.

From time to time, I encounter things that are the 40s era and they're few, but they're scattered. So they wouldn't fit into a geographic thing. But to me, they're really interesting because they're kind of under the radar. They're not not 20s, they're not know.

Right, they're after John Nolan era and they're before Sarasota School of Architecture.

That would go along the lines of

World War II era.

Potentially a survey for potential historic landmark designation houses whether they were in the 40s or 30s or even the 50s. Have we done a survey along those lines?

Well, when we do have surveys done, the firm that we hire is part of the scope of work. We do ask for recommendations from them for properties to be potentially added to our local register or to the national register or if there's the possibility of a national historic district if there's enough concentration of structures. So we have asked those recommendations. So far with the surveys that have been done, there has there have not been any specific recommendations for putting properties on the National Register. We'll have to see what happens with the current one on Edgewood and Seaboard.

But again, in all the scopes of work, that is one of the products that we ask for and results is recommendations for listing properties.

Subject. Do you attend city council meetings?

I typically do not.

I was wondering because Mark made his presentation.

Oh yeah, Mark did his presentation.

Okay, he's not here. Were there specific questions or questions does Consul had of him after his presentation?

From what I recall, there were no questions, comments or concerns. I was actually going to bring that up in staff report how that went because I do now have some directions to look for from this board so we can cover that in the next topic.

From a historic preservation standpoint surveys, what is the approximate average that you should go out in inventory for most historic Yes.

It's actually pretty formulaic. So the state awards up to $50,000 for these grant projects. And they kind of have an unwritten understanding that it should not cost more than $200 a resource to be surveyed. So you do the math at that point. And I'm historian so I'm not going to.

Basically you can figure out x number of properties times that dollar amount and that you can kind of figure out how far you can go. Sometimes it makes it easier to have it a specific geographical area or a thematic area. So in the case of Edgewood and Seaboard, I think we're actually having them, they said they're surveying, I think it came up to 183 properties that they're looking at between those two neighborhoods. So I mean, we can do whatever kind of however we want to draw the lines on the map. It just comes down to what can we afford to do.

So in your budget, if we cap the 50 and go over like if you take Venetia Park or Bayshore, those are larger geographical areas. So that is unlikely that you're going to get underneath that 50,000. Will your department pick up the gap?

So if we are looking at a project that would cost more than 50,000 then that would have to be a budget request from my division to City Council when we're looking at working on the budget for that fiscal year. So we would have to already have that money set aside if we think we're going to go over. But typically then what we can do is if we see a project that's going to be more than what we can get in the grant, can always break the project down into smaller chunks.

CLGs in the state, how often are they doing, I mean what is the standard average that you should do a survey?

Typically what, I should say in an ideal world, they would like to see areas surveyed about every decade. The areas that we have had surveyed all were done back in the 1980s, So we're a little behind that schedule. Again, think that every decade is more of an ideal that they would like to see happen, not necessarily a requirement. And it really depends too. Mean if we see a lot of change, then we might want to survey sooner. If we have not seen a lot of change, then there may be less need to resurvey an area that we've done in the past.

Thank you. So are you looking for recommendations?

Yes, would like to see if there's any consensus from this Board on a topic or a project that they would like to have us pursue with the next grant cycle from the State of Florida.

It's almost overwhelming, the number of choices we could possibly make concerning this. Is there any neighborhood you feel is being more challenged than others at the moment that we might want to try to capture now before it changes anymore?

I would say that not that it's an area that is under any type of big threat, but we have not done the Nitzia Park since the 1980s and it might be good to go back in there and survey what properties there are. I can also add that those surveys that were done in the 1980s could definitely use some updated information. The information that they have is a bit dated. So a new survey of Park would give us more up to date regarding the history and ownership and condition of all those homes because we'll also have photo documentation then for all of those properties along with Florida master site files.

I like the idea of doing Venizio Park. It's one of our official district and we should make sure that we're paying close attention to it. Is everyone else comfortable with that?

Absolutely. I mean it's a unique district because we have historic district and then we have Venetia Park. And if you look at the differences between the two, I think you'll you'll you'll find that it's dramatically different as far as what's been protected and preserved and what hasn't. So I think giving the finding those numbers and then, you know potentially having more of a documented proof and going to city council and and the planning commission and saying you know maybe we need to look at our boundaries again because we're losing all this historic context which is really important.

Is everyone comfortable with that?

I think that's a good target. The purpose of a survey is to kind of have a preemptive strike to the destruction process or progress of the city. And if Venetia Park is one of the more vulnerable areas because it's one of the most highly desirable locations, I think that's a perfect start.

Is that all you need from us, direction and kind of general consensus?

Yeah, yeah, that's all that I was looking for. Thank you very much. So then I'll work on the application when it's released and we'll see about getting a survey done for Venetia Park. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Okay. Is there any further Board discussion today? Seeing none, are there any other staff comments for the day?

I was just going to add, so yes, I was there when Mark gave his presentation to City Council. There were no questions or concerns from Council regarding what this Board has done And I think we have other staff comments. And so but also what I wanted to bring up to this Board was that there was a question about whether or not to continue with the legacy award. And the decision was made to continue that program. So having said that, we are way off our standard timetable.

Usually it's a call out for nominations in January, we're doing now so that we could have a nominee or an award winner for May, which is preservation month. So again, I will seek guidance from this Board. Do we want to do a late legacy award program this year or do we just want to make sure that we are lined up and ready to go for the cycle that we had developed and do that next year?

Didn't we have kind of a, I'll call it a runner-up last year?

I think we had, yes, we had I think what four nominations last year, three. So yes, we did have the one winner, so we did have those runners up if you want to just consider one of those or if you want to revisit that or open it up, this board would like to do.

Yes, refresh me, I had thought there was conversation about that not being every year but it would be an interval in between until there's someone who just is an obvious choice or selection or deserves to be honored or recognized rather than saying, it's a year we got to we have to name someone. Did I make that up?

It is annual but that doesn't mean it needs to be given out annually. If there is every year we have the program and it's just a matter of whether or not there is a group organization individual that is nominated that this award feels meets the criteria for the legacy award.

Thank you.

So it's not required but it is something that we throw the net out every year and see what we catch.

My opinion is that we're too far behind because this is a real public engagement opportunity for us and to get the public involved and nomination I think is important. And I think from my opinion, time frame is too tight to really take advantage of that.

In addition to being a little late onto the bus this year since no one or an injury has risen up to catch our attention, it might be best to wait until next year.

Can I ask when we would officially start doing the program next year then? Can we get an official start date so we don't lose it?

Yes, no. Typically how we set it up when we reestablish the legacy award program is that it's now going to be nominations from this board but nominations from the public. And so press releases about the announcement of seeking nominations will be going would then go out in either December or January, that timeframe. Looking to have nominations by March so that this board can make a decision and have a winner for the May meeting.

Thank you Harry.

Thank you.

Okay and then I was just going to give you the typical preview that we do for what's coming up. So we've got two petitions in review, you've seen both of them at pre application meetings. One is two zero five Harbor for the Catholic Foundation Administration Building that you saw I think January. Then the other is 417 Nassau Street which is sort of a family compound like single family homes and that one I think you saw last month at your pre application. So those could potentially be coming up in April if they get everything ready in time. So we do expect to have a meeting next month.

Is that the Nassau, is that the one across from the library?

No, that was that one we're done with already. This was the the Catholic Community Foundation Administration Building.

Oh, that's right.

Oh, no. I'm sorry. That's the house. It's the Deutsch Family Compound is what it says on the plans.

Yes, it does have an historic name, but it escapes me right now.

Okay. Okay, that's That's all.

Thank you.

In that case, is everyone in favor of adjournment? Please say aye.