Historic and Architectural Preservation Board - Regular Meeting

Ready to start when you are chair.

Alright, thank you. Alright,

seeing us 09:00. We'll go ahead and call to

order board. At I'm the Bartanian?

Here.

And Mr. Barrack? Here.

All right. Thank you. All right. First order of business is to approve the minutes of January 9, our regular meeting minutes. Have those in front of you or sent to you. Any revisions or modifications? If not, I'll entertain a motion.

I'll move to approve.

I'll second that.

Second.

Seconds. Right. Do we have any general audience participation today? Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I got ahead of myself. All in favor? All go ahead and open the public hearing. That's seeking a recommendation from city council to place the Venice Beach Pavilion in the local register of historic resources. It's PLAR25002.

101, the Esplanade staff. And we have Eric Klinkhammer, historical resources manager. And now, Mr. Lewis.

Actually, Amanda, you need to read the memorandum on an advertisement?

Oh, yes. Could you read the memorandum regarding the I'm sorry. I don't have it. Yeah.

This is certified

that this public hearing was properly advertised on January 25. Proof of publication is available on the zoning office

and we have

received no written communications office.

Thank you.

And now as a board attorney, I will ask anyone on this board have any conflicts of interest with hearing this case?

None here. No.

Let the record reflect that there are no conflicts of interest. And I also have to ask whether or not any board member has received ex parte communication involving this application.

None here. No?

No. Let the record reflect that there's been no indication of ex parte communication.

Alright. Thank you. Alright. Mister Klinghammer. Staff

report. Alright. Good morning. For the record, Harry Klinghammer, historical resources manager for the city of Venice. What we have before you today is a nomination, to the local register of historical resources for 101 South The Esplanade, otherwise known as the Venice Beach Pavilion.

So as you can see, there is the address. The structure was built in 1964. Architect of record is William Lind and Cyril Tucker. The builder was actually the city of Venice. And for architectural style with century modern, I would also throw googie in there just because of the hyperbolic paraboloid roof.

So the categories for which this is being nominated are, number one, is significant in the city's history and culture and possesses the integrity of location, design, setting, materials, workmanship, or association. Category number two, are associated with distinctive elements of cultural, social, political, economic, scientific, religious, prehistoric, paleontological, and architectural history that have contributed to the pattern of history in the community, the city, the county, the state, the region, or the nation. And number four, embodies the distinctive characteristic of a type, period, style, or method of construction, or work of a master, or possesses high artistic value, or represent a distinguishable entity whose components may lack individual distinction. So this is just a synopsis of section three, discussing its history and significance. So, yes, the building is, significant for its architectural engineering features, meaning the hyperbolic paraboloid, its history here in Venice, and it ties to a locally prominent architecture and engineer, William Dillon and Cyril Tucker, who have had did many commissions here in the city.

It was completed in 1964 to replace the beach casino that was built in the nineteen thirties that was aged and in disrepair. As I said, William Lyndon Cyril Tucker were the ones who awarded the contract to design the structure as the city was looking for towards the future after World War two and wanting a more modern look. They proposed a 6500 square foot area consisting of a 64 foot square separate hyper remote paraboloid roof, shading, concession stand and shower changing structures. You can actually see in that image, there is a photograph of the building after its completion. Here's an image of David Hamilton, who was chair of the Venice Beach Committee, appointed by city council to come up with improvements for the beaches in Venice up and down the city's coast.

And with that was the proposal for this modern style beach casino or pavilion. Here, you can already go see construction happening for this roof. And actually, what I'd like to do here real quick is share for those in the audience who would like to know bit more about the significance of the construction. This is a quick demonstration of how a hypoballic paraboloid roof is put together. And because of its design, how the, compression and contraction of, the different forces are what helps keep it stable.

Now there were many concerns about this roof being able to fly away and just rip off, but, as was shown in the earliest designs of using hyperbolic paraboloid roofs, that the competing tension forces negated each other, pretty much keeping that thing in Hi,

it's Mary.

Hope that's Okay, Mary. We don't need to hear from you. So they saw this as a way to do a solid roof at an economical cost. In fact, many hyperboloid roofs at the time were being done by steel or more prominently with cement. As a cost saving measure, the city made the roof out of wood and plywood.

And again, here's another image of the building as it opened in 1964. And it was a very popular place in the community. In fact, soon after it opened, it was being taken over regularly by the local high school students with impromptu dancing and other shenanigans such as climbing up onto the roof and spray painting it. And here is the structure present day. So that kind of completes the staff report.

Like I said, this is eligible for the local register under three different categories. And if there are any questions from the board, I'd be happy to answer those.

I have a question. One of the things about being on the historic register is I believe we were afforded the ability to get money for repairs or maintenance of structures outside of city funding. Has that been investigated? Or with this type of

So currently, as it stands in terms of preservation incentives, there are incentives for doing improvements to properties on the local register. As an example, you recall recently we had the ad valorem tax exemption for 40 West Venice Avenue. There are also federal tax incentives for income producing properties, which this is. And then there are grants from the state for doing work, on properties on the local register that are publicly owned. Being on the local register doesn't guarantee, but it does when the state ranks all the applications being on a local register does move it up the ranks.

And so how the grant process works with the state of Florida, projects are reviewed and ranked. And then when it comes to the budget cycle, whatever money then is approved for funding for those grants, they just start going down the list, from number one and heading down until they run out of money. So obviously being higher up on the list is more beneficial, increases your chances of getting funding for doing projects.

I have a question. After all the storms and so on, how is the building doing structurally?

It is my understanding from public works that there is some rust into the metal pipes that are within the outer frame of the hyperbolic paraboloid. I know they had an engineering study done a few years back. And there is concern about the longevity of the roof.

There's also three supporting columns which kind of disappear in the design. And they were original, as I recall. And those particular columns, I believe, should be looked at first because I think those are degrading substantially more than the perimeter edge. But that's observation from a local view. But just the idea that it be maintained is important because it won't survive if it's it's not.

If I'm correct, this particular pavilion won an American Plywood Association an award for the most unique use of plywood in the country.

Yes. And in fact, the plywood I think it was the plywood and fur association did actually a pamphlet specifically on this structure promoting it.

I think I've seen that.

Pretty cool. I

just have a comment. I'm looking at the picture here of this guy. And I'm thinking, that was me in 1963. I was wearing that same skinny tie. I was making the same little designs. And it's kind of amazing. I'm feeling like I'm a historical object myself right now. But it's kind of cool to know that we could preserve something from that time period. And I'm just old enough that I actually remember building things that looked like this. So it was kind of fun.

I was in high school trying to figure out how to do all this stuff, and here it is. We're making a historical thing. But I don't know. To me, that makes it even more valuable because people have lived through this. Some of us are still around. I think it's kind of neat. I think it's a great deal,

especially if

we can get some more money to keep it up.

And if I may also add, being on the local register will also help to exempt it from the FEMA 50% rule.

I'm not sure if it adds to the value, but it's an interesting anecdote. When I first moved down here and was around here in the late '60s, the police had an interesting challenge in that the local teenagers decided that roof was wonderful for some skateboarding.

Yeah, there's a history of juvenile activity. Are you raising your hand in guilt? Yeah.

I've done it. Okay. Harry, I commend you on using the GUI architecture as an identifier. Congrats. Thank you. Prompts for that. That doesn't get to you get to be used very often. I think, you know, from my perspective, the mid century architecture, this would be the first in the city. Correct? That would be city owned as far as city properties?

Correct.

So I think it's extremely important based on on that as far as timeline of architectural styles in the city that are prevalent within the city limits. Also, I think understated is the cultural importance to people in memory of the structure. I mean, it's literally the gateway to the beaches from aligning with the Nolan plan. And I think that that alone is significant as far as the placement of the structure and how many hundreds of thousands of people have crossed under that pavilion to go to the beach for the day is culturally significant to many people's lives. So I definitely commend this nomination.

And also, as far as the timeline goes with city council approval, how long will that take before this will be done in the books?

So assuming this board approves the recommendation, then it'll be a matter of getting it on the next available City Council meeting, which at this point would probably be the first meeting in March. And then because it takes an ordinance to put it on the local register, it'll take two meetings. So we would be talking about the earliest would be March to have this listed.

Okay. So April, unfortunately, I probably will miss the grant cycle for the states since the budget's about to start being worked?

Yeah. April 1 is typically when the grant cycle opens. So we would be there if the city wants to look at applying for a grant for doing any work.

Okay. With this so proactive we're assuming this will be received positively about public and city council. Would staff be able to start working on state, both state and federal federal grants? Grants?

Well, the one thing about the state grant program is it's a matching grant. So the city would have to budget for the other half, which it has not. So we are currently working on fiscal year 'twenty six budget cycle. So this is something then that could be looked at for the next year.

And what about federal? Is that a match? There

are no federal grants. There's just tax incentives. And there's no timeline for that. When work is done, you can apply for tax credits based upon the work that was done. But there are no federal grants for doing preservation work. Okay.

Any estimation of what the cost is going to be to fix it?

That I do not know. That would have to be a question for public works. They're the ones who are overseeing that. Okay.

Any other comments? Questions for Mr. Klinghammer? All right, any other staff? Is there any audience participation with this?

No, there is not.

Okay. Thank you. Alright. Anything else, Harry, that you have?

I would just like to add that in doing this research, was really interesting to learn a lot about geometry. But also too, was surprised about the kind of the impact that Tucker and Lynn had in the city with all the commissions that they had here. They definitely had quite an influence in the city much more than I had known beforehand. I think that was just kind of an interesting note and another reason to why I included category four in the nomination criteria.

All right. We'll go ahead and close the public hearing. Chair will entertain a motion. I

have a motion to nominate PLA R25-zero zero zero two as presented by staff for nomination to the local register by this board. Second.

Ten seconds. All in favor.

And just to clarify, since under this is a motion to recommend approval, and then it will go to the City Council. City Council

for approval. This is a recommendation for approval. Let's do a roll call vote.

Mister Weaver?

Yes.

Miss Trammell? Yes. Mister Barrack?

Yes.

Mister Stecetti?

Yes.

Mister Dereberry? Yes. Mister Vartanian?

Yes.

And Chair Bebe?

Yes. Alright. Motion passes. Looking forward to seeing something to preserve this thing. It is an amazing structure, and it is a signifier for the city.

Right. New business. Think the area is still up. Historical researchers manager and Nicole Trembley, senior planner.

Talked last meeting about the local register postcard that we did last year and how we might do something a little bit more interactive this year. Harry and I and Brittany talked about putting together like a local register forum kind of like you all had spoken about but if you want to have a member of the board there to answer questions and represent you know the board's interests help people understand what you guys might be looking for. We would need you to designate just one person to do that so that we don't have to get involved with the sunshine practices of advertising and all that. It'd be a little bit better, maybe more informal, more useful if you could just have one member. I wanted to bring that to you.

Harry's done some work already at looking at location and

Yeah. So we were thinking that possibly doing early evening at the library in the large room that they have there. So this way, people who are working can come and participate in that. I've spoken with Venice Heritage, and they have also offered to provide drinks and refreshments for that evening as well to kind of play not necessarily unofficial hosting the event, but acting as host. And so and I think, as Nicole was saying, we're kind of looking at this as more of an informal, perhaps a a quick breakdown from me about what is the local register and especially how it's different than the national register to kind of get that information out there.

And then we were looking at then potentially having staff, a representative of this board, perhaps a couple of contractors as well who could be there to answer questions for the public.

Did you have a time frame that you were thinking of doing? As as

Date wise? Yeah. Think we're talking

about April

if we could get it together by then.

Yeah. I mean, May is preservation month. I mean, that could that might be more ideal, but we also will probably lose some of the folks who are here seasonally. So I mean, I think that's a discussion we can have. Plus we will need to check on the availability over at the library.

So how long in the mailing? How long do you need to get that together so once a date got established, the mailing could go out?

We don't need too long, and we don't wanna send it out too early so that people kinda have it fresh in their mind. We talked about just in and out two weeks before like we normally would. So I don't think it'll take our office too long to get a mailing together.

Then you would do public notices like in the local paper and whatnot?

Yeah. We can do

press releases, not necessarily a public notice. Typical Yeah. It's not a notice meeting. But, yeah, no. We could do press releases and get those out.

Sounds fun.

I think it's good idea. I'll be back. I think this would be maybe easier for people to engage in than just writing back or contacting you. Especially having a contractor there, I think that's usually what people gravitate to is if I did this, what would it cost me roughly? And if I did this, what kind of advantages would I have? That's what they ask, which is they're good questions and ones that have to be answered before you engage in a historic property. They love them from the outside. So you have to understand them from the inside. Yeah. It's a great idea.

Thank you.

You're looking for a recommendation?

Or just Why is it or not?

I think what we're looking for is for this board to designate a representative of this board to participate in the forum.

Volunteers, would you like to do it, John?

Yeah, I

mean, I kind of came up with notion just to do this. I just like trying to get more public awareness and some interaction, I think, is what lies. Because Harry is the sole representative. I think having public interest and being able to get information across an informal setting would be really beneficial. Because I know folks that I know that could go on the local register are just they don't really understand the benefits totally. So I think it would be a positive thing.

The library is a great location. I think it's really comfortable. It's right in the middle. Everybody get there. All right. Well, John, if you're volunteering, I think that's your answer. But you say that without sunshine, need to just have one. Right.

I usually just request a motion to vote just to formalize that. We're designating one person.

Okay. So to entertain a motion to move forward with this presentation, informal get together.

And designate Mr. Barrack to appear on behalf

of

the board.

And we'll designate Mr. Barrack to

Aye.

Do want to make a motion? Aye.

Second it. Aye.

Ayes have it. It is John. Yeah, you're it.

So prior to the meeting, I guess if anyone has any

Input.

Input, we can get a consensus on statements that maybe could be made by the board in whole. I would be only acting as an individual, and I couldn't I think it would be inappropriate to represent the board, but at least it could be communicated.

Would also say that any of us on the board that has relationship with a contractor who might be appropriate for this, we maybe give that to

Staff.

The whole staff and just suggest they can approach them and say, are you interested? I can think of a couple who have successfully done projects in the city, turned out really well. They understand the process construction portion of it.

Yeah, I've already reached out to Joy Builders who did six forty. And they are interested in participating. But the more the merrier.

I have a question for Mr. Lewis. I think the chair made the motion, and I'm not sure if that's appropriate.

It isn't. For just the board.

So, have

another board member just make the motion.

I don't make that motion then.

Alright, second. Second. Ruth Ann will second it.

Second.

And the vote. All in

favor? Aye.

Aye. Aye. Aye.

Further meetings. We have to reach out to contractors and do all that before we schedule the date. So there should be enough time to give you an update with how it's going in case you all have any more feedback or things you want to make sure we include.

I think the library is a great spot.

April

was a great idea.

Well, it's not too late in April. Yeah, most people are still here through April.

Okay.

All right. That's good. Great stuff.

All right. Thank you.

Anything else before we're here today?

I've got a couple more items for discussion, but I think there's one more thing in between.

Do too. We're going be after Annual report.

Oh, yeah. Annual report to counsel.

Yes.

That's

coming up. I've sent it in to you. Believe you can read it, a Word document. Was there any comments on that that you have?

No, we received it and everything looked Okay. I don't know if it needs to be presented to the board before you take it to city council. Is that the purpose here?

That is the purpose?

It has to have the blessing of the board.

Oh, Okay.

This is really interesting the way they've put this together now, that they've changed it over. You used to just walk in and we present. I know. And the way you've organized it and laid it out now and have the records of everything that we have done in the past year is much more informative than it used You

gave me the stats. Actually, we haven't reviewed that many CACs this year, only five so far, or this past year. It was a busy year, plenty of storms. But people I think one of the only items that wasn't clear on here that I added is to finalize the or actually proceed with this color issue. Issue.

And we started with Sherwin Williams, Beth, and we're going reach back out to her to see if we can resolve that. Because I feel like that is something that we need to resolve this year. Our color book is very dated, as all color things do. They change constantly, and we need to be updated on that. We don't want people to feel like they're selecting from an old palette.

And it's hard them to select something that isn't on there because they're afraid they'll get rejected, which is not the way to think, but it's very common. So is there anything else on there that anyone would like me to include that we have not?

It's pretty complete.

Well, if I want to read through it a little bit, but if not, I'd entertain a motion to

Should we approve this?

Present this to city council, unless there's any additions or subtractions.

Do we need a motion to

do that? I don't know.

I would make a motion that

you approve the commission to counsel?

We do. I would make a motion that we approve Mr. Beebe's report and approve its presentation to the council.

I'll second that.

All right. All in favor?

Aye. Aye. Opposed?

All right. So we'll present that on February 25. It's complete. Unless there's something else. All right.

Any other staff comments

for Was there any other I think board discussion was next.

Yeah, board discussion. Any other items to discuss?

We have another meeting coming.

The next meeting does not have anything on it, to my knowledge. So hopefully, the one after that will have some petitions to bring you.

I have a couple of questions again. I don't know for you or Roger. About, I don't know, eight months ago or so, we approved a building on Miami Avenue. I don't see any change in it.

The one that was a

The Verizon building? Yeah. Next to Abby's.

That's true I remember that petition but we haven't gotten anything I haven't seen a building permit recently or anything. Their certificate of architectural compliance can expire so if they don't pursue it in time they may have to come back and ask for an extension or a new approval. But to my knowledge, we don't have a permit or anything for them right now. Maybe Roger does know about one.

Good afternoon or morning, whatever it is. I can't remember. For the record, Roger Clark, Planning and Zoning Director. My understanding is that there's been a sale of that property. And as you probably remember, the 219 West Venice Ave Building, they also own that.

My understanding is that they've been sold. So we still have your approval in place for both buildings. And we are hopeful that we will get something moving forward. There's also an approved site development plan for the building on West Venice Avenue, which does expire after two years. So hopefully they will move forward with something, especially the West Venice Avenue building, which we're more concerned about, I think, than anything else. But yeah, that's my understanding that there's been a sale of the property. So we'll see where it goes from here.

Yeah, the West Venice Avenue made the paper this week.

Did it again?

Yeah. That comes up a lot.

Yeah, there's been a few code enforcement issues there. I think for the most part, at least my understanding is they've been resolved to the best of their ability. So we're hopeful that 02/19 will something will occur there hopefully soon. At the last meeting, you were supposed

to have a meeting with the circus people. Has that gone forward at all?

The circus property We you're talking have heard from their professional. They had had their neighborhood workshop, which they're required to do prior to submitting any application. And so we anticipate application coming soon. I know they have some questions about building height. They're still working on that.

If you recall, the tent that y'all indicated you were Okay with, their proposal was looking like 60 foot tall structure. And the limit, with a height exception, is 57 feet in that zoning district. So our definition allows you to measure in different ways by using the adjacent crown of roads and those kind of things. So I think they're still working on whether they are going to need a height exception or not. I know that the airport director has been working with the property owner as well with regards to potential access easement through that property.

So there is work being done. There is discussions taking place. And like I said, I just recently heard from Misty Servia, who was the one that came before you with the tent structure. So hopefully we get some activity on that real soon.

It's good to hear that that's continuing.

We're very hopeful that we get going with that soon.

Roger, a question for 219 West Venice Avenue. Being that the property is sold, is it appropriate for the city to at least remind the new owner that there is an approval that is ticking away? They're not easily received. That might help them to either I don't know. Maybe they have other plans for the property. But if they intended to go with just the same, which

Yeah. I did speak with code enforcement, who is in contact with the new owner, and indicated to them, make sure you tell them they have a site development plan that's going to expire. So they need to do something with it, pull a permit, we'll reach out to them as well. Okay. Just wondering if we can do that. Yeah, definitely.

We need to get that hole filled up.

That would be nice.

Right. Anything else for the staff? All right.

Actually, not necessarily staff.

But just discussion.

Yeah. So back in September 19, we had a joint last that. That.

To

years. And

outside so district and non Nolan properties and allow our board to review and approve those to that would ultimately go to city council as the final authority for approval. I think overall, my opinion of that meeting was that those members of the board that were there were in favor of of that. And city, the planning commission, in my opinion, seemed open to it given that the those members of the board that were present were in agreement about that change. So I'm not sure. I think there's some procedural thing that has to happen where it has to be sent to city council first as a some write up, and they have to approve it before it can even go to planning commission for any changes, some kind of procedural thing.

And I know we've talked with staff about other changes to the ordinance as well that are potentially in the works. So maybe we wrap all of that together and send it to city council once.

Yeah. Would agree to do it once. We were kind of waiting for you, mister Barrack, to to come up with some language or some at least guidance to to move that along, and then it will have to go through the legislative referral process. And I know mister Lewis can expound on that a little more. But you are correct to ask to go to counsel first.

So I'm a board member and architect of legalities of how things are worded and written. Not my I'm a little bit not as familiar with that. How would I obtain the guidance to write that correctly?

Well, I think come up with the basic ideas. And I would say you would more than likely have to bring those ideas back to the board to make sure that the board is good with the points that you want to make. Then correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Lewis, but then we would go to counsel with the legislative referral. And then I think we would have to draft language beyond that to bring back to the board. Yes.

We could also put it in. I know we just approved the upcoming agenda for the year but that we could also

I was thinking that too.

Yeah. Could also put that in the if that's something the board wants to proceed for, where we can put that in the goals and years for the years report of the upcoming year to the city council and that also could city council wants to that could also give us the blessing so we can actually kind of proceed forward with that.

Pursue it. That's a good idea. I thought that too, that maybe if we want to amend or at least propose a revision to the agenda report that indicates that the board has interest in exploring code changes to give them some purview over local register nominations, those kind of things. And maybe Mr. Barrack, I know you said there were some other things too. If you could maybe make the proposal for a revision to the agenda item, we could certainly make that change to the report. And then when Mr. Beebe goes to report that, that discussion could occur at that point. And then we would have to do the legislative referral process.

Okay. So what I'm sorry. What's the timeline for the presentation of the report?

Twenty fifth, next council meeting. So, we would need to do that today.

I was required to get it in.

Yeah. And we need to. So, we need to get it on the agenda.

It would need to be amended today?

Yes.

But

if you're not ready

to do that, we can do the legislative process.

From my point of view, the sooner the better. So if I don't want to miss an opportunity to get something in the pipeline for approval so whatever you need from me, just let me know.

Well, think we need it here today on the floor.

Oh, really? Yeah, because the board has to approve the proposed agenda for the upcoming year so that you can present it to the city council. Since you're We just approved it. Yeah, which that's not a problem. We amend it. Yeah, that's not an issue. It's more of the issue of we need an approval from the board so that you can take that agenda on the twenty fifth to the City council.

So can it be from a modality standpoint? Can it be worded generally as a goal? And that would give city council council awareness of it.

Manny, can you pull up the can you put up the proposed agenda for the next year? Just just so that we're all working from the same document. See your proposed agenda.

So I think it would go

under the proposed agenda priorities And for the coming

I think you could make it general. I mean one of things you indicated is to have the board have purview over local register nominations that are non Nolan. And I know there were other changes that you had identified, but you could make that as general as you can changes regarding whatever you were thinking of.

Okay. That

way we can put that on the proposed agenda. We can get a vote on here today and Mr. Beebe can present that on the twenty fifth.

Okay. So as a board discussion, of you were present at that. As you recall, are you in support of allowing the approval process for local register nominations and then also additions, alterations to local register nominations. And we would ultimately what happened with the Venice Avenue property, it would fix that because we would be in charge of approving the ad valorem because there was kind of a hiccup in that process. This would correct that because we would see everything from start to finish on any approval to a local register that is non Nolan and within the city limits.

And whatever alterations to text in the ordinance would change to reflect that.

So this would if I'm correct, there's not very many properties at this point, four or something. But in the future, there could be more. And they're not necessarily within our district, which is our area of purview. They could be outside of our

This board is in charge of everything Right. In the

So within and with and outside our area. But it's within the city limits.

Well, I mean, yes. I mean, we would start to

That's the way

review things outside of our specific historic district, district, which is very small given the vast expanse of the city and the other districts that we do see that are we would see those historical properties outside of just the historic district.

So that opens up the Theme District and then

Well, with it to the whole city.

It's a city. The whole city. Yeah.

I mean,

you have That's

why I said it's not just that's

property that's not within a district, we would start to we would have the authority to review and approve those, which we currently do not.

No, it's for any area, though. It doesn't have to necessarily be a historic home that is outside of the current district, in the Theme District and so on and any

Yeah, mean, it would be within the city. So if for some reason they're digging a new development, they're digging up some stuff, and it's archaeology, discover some artifacts and stuff, we would be able to review that just as a hypothetical.

Okay. It

doesn't necessarily this would be just not houses, essentially, or structures. This would go beyond that potentially, which is the breast of any historic board.

Are you planning to sheet that into a motion? Yeah.

I mean, it's I think we if everyone we need to just make sure the board is in agreement and then come up with some generic wording, I guess.

Yeah. I think what you were talking about and I think what would happen is a property by a property owner would wish to be on the local register, just like we have today. They would want to be on the register. They would choose to do that. And this would right now, Harry would review anything non Nolan, and especially outside the districts.

This would give you, as a board, purview over that review of that property to be on the local register. And then mister Barracks also indicated that any alterations or changes to a property that's not Nolan that's on the register would also be in your purview. Right now, it's Harry's purview, and he usually brings that to you, and then you just approve nomination kind of like you did today. This a would little different. We'd put the board in that position to review those nominations and any alterations too. Am I correct, Mr. Baer? I think.

Yeah. I mean, I've got the write up that I did before. This added purpose and intent of the board, and this added ten, eleven, 12.

Unless the board show the commitment. Yeah.

So he's saying that we would this next annually this annual report next year, we would investigate the potential for us, this board, to do this? Think I mean, we haven't really vetted it out. We don't know.

Well, we've met with Planning commission, as Mr. Perick said. You've discussed it. We met with we had the joint meeting. They expressed bring something to us. We certainly will consider it. And this would be putting on the agenda for this upcoming year the potential of seeking board control of local register nominations that are non Nolan rather than having the historic resources manager do it. And then also the alterations as well.

We have 11 local registers right here.

This will be 12.

We have 12 coming up. We're not talking astronomical numbers. 13. 13. 13. So it's very small. I mean, I think Sarasota County only has, what, 38? Yeah. I don't know. I mean, it's we're not talking large numbers. It's not a lot of work. It's just when something comes up, we would review it within city limits.

And

mostly, local nominations would be someone that would apply probably no alterations to want to get on the local register is typically what we've seen thus far. There's only the one on Venice that had alterations.

So can we entertain a motion to put this on the annual agenda?

Well, we have to amend the

We would have to amend the the motion to put

it, right? You'll restrike that

Motion to start up. Motion to amend the approved agenda for this board for the upcoming year to that will be presented to the

City Council. City council. And I just

wanna clear. So it's transferring approval of local registry applications and alterations to non known properties from the HRM to that b board?

I believe I believe so. It's mister Barracks.

So okay. I'll I'll summarize. So the nomination would be that HAPB shall review alterations, relocations, demolitions, new construction or other activities that may affect locally designated properties. HAPB shall review National Register nominations within its jurisdiction.

Okay. Now you're getting into the National Register. So it's up to you guys how much you wanna get into for us to take

to And this is not the code change. We're not proposing the code changes themselves right now. You just need a statement. Right. So you don't have to read all your changes. Okay.

Yeah. Just a general statement. And

that the only other one that I think is really important is that if we do get that approval, that if we have to seek if we don't have the expertise in the area of a application that came before us, we would rely on the National Department of Interior Standards and their swath of information

for guidance. I don't think that all has to be in there. I think that would come with the code changes. So I think a general statement for the board to have purview over local register nominations, national however you want to do that, but make a general statement that the board will seek ways, seek text amendments to accomplish the board purview over those types of Local registered nomination properties, yeah, something like that. That sounds good. Sounds good?

I'm fine with that.

You good with that? Somebody second the motion, I guess?

I'll second the motion.

All in favor? Aye. Aye.

Who was the second on that?

Ms. Trammell.

Ms. Trammell. That will be amended and then resent.

Based on what we heard today, we'll write up our best way to write this motion. And we'll send it to you. But we do have to get it on the agenda rather quickly.

So that probably has to be amended today?

Yes.

All right. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Anything else to discuss today?

I just had one other item. We have a board member leaving, so there's an open application process. I think it ends early February, and that closes. So I'd ask that the Venice Area Historical Society is getting together and has a presentation coming up soon that maybe we reach out to them and ask that their membership just make them aware of it to apply. And also, I think Dennis Gage, Inc.

Has a presentation coming up soon that the general audience, those are likely candidates who may be interested in helping the city out by serving on this board, trying to open up the apture as wide as possible for awareness for someone to apply, if possible, just as a journal statement.

Sure. I guess you notify I don't know. You say that you have an open when do you it, Bruce? Or when's it?

The March 12. March 12. Last meeting. I'll be around until May at the latest, but I wasn't sure about my schedule. So thought I better cut it off. But I could still I don't know if that's legal. Once you resign, you resign, don't you?

Correct.

Think so. All right. Well, there you go. March 12.

So there's

that. I can't unresign.

I can't unresign.

All right. Anything else for the board today? All right. If not, we are adjourned. Wait. Oh. We are not.

Staff comments.

Oh, staff comments. Did I miss anything?

Mine are just small little things. We talked about the color palette. Have not gotten in touch with Beth, I believe Beth Martin yet. I have not been able to find her contact information yet. But

I think I have.

Okay. Well, kind of similar to what we did actually with the local register forum. We talked about possibly mister Beebe being able to handle that with the representative from Sherwin Williams at the beginning to go over, you know, what you're looking for in a pallet and then bring it to the board for approval. But I don't know maybe Mr. List you can help me does the board need to designate the chairman to be able to operate that way and then bring back?

Yes I would want that I would want the board to designate.

Okay

So if

Okay.

If you are interested in doing that, if you could make a motion and vote to let the chairman discuss So the

I'll entertain a motion to allow me to meet with Sherwin Williams to bring something back to the board.

I'll make a motion to designate it

Mark.

Mark. Mr. Beebe to deal with Sherman Williams and bring it back to the board.

Second. John seconds. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Okay,

we can do that. And then just one little update. If you all remember, somewhat recently we made a code change as you suggested that if any property was a Nolan era property and they were making a change they couldn't make a like for like change to something that was not bhp So typically that's going to be roofs and we've had a few in the past couple weeks that's been causing a stir on our motto. Some houses have shingles and they wanted to replace with shingles but because of that code section they're replacing with rail tile so just an update that that sort of new section they all added has come into play we've got three permits that are going towards compliance with the VHP because they're no one era and they were posing like for like so we had to turn that down so just an update on how your your changes are working possibly it's it's more costly so not everyone has been thrilled with it. But

it's the

new I think our

concern was with the metal roofs. Pardon me? You have a question. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, our concern was more with the metal roofs and so on. So I don't think we have any problem with tile, but that's great.

And I would add to that, as you may have been reading in the paper, that the insurance industry and the state are looking at concerns about the long term use of asphalt shingles on roofs and are looking to encourage other materials being used. That may be another thing that's gonna make some of these asphalt shingles disappear. So because the insurance industry and the state are both looking at trying to phase those out.

We had talked speaking of roofs, the last hearing that we had were the two roofing where that that change about potentially providing some change to the ordinance that would allow us not to see see that potentially

yes I have not been able to to get that done yet but it is in our list of changes to make, and we will make sure that you see the language before we propose it to planning commission. So, ideally, at your next meeting, we would have it ready. We just didn't

Well, I guess for what Mark's about to do, would that need to be included in that?

I don't think so. I mean, that's I mean, if you want to correct us on that.

We typically modify the ordinance as we need to.

I think that's similar to the changes we made before.

Think that was actually on there, updates or modifications to the guidelines as needed.

I didn't know what the legislative process that Yeah, think

maybe the other change is a lot more significant as far as changing responsibilities and things like that as opposed to like you said the standards what roof material is allowed that those simpler changes we've done previously as an update so no I appreciate you

being Whole new legislative animal these I

believe if we recall that it goes directly to the purview of the board and what's laid out in the town code of what realms do we have in realms each board has for their authorities.

Right. So if you're changing that, that's one thing. But if you're within it, then it's Okay.

Good.

All right. That's all I have. Over to you, Harry.

Oh, yes. So just a couple of things. So we received word from the state this week that they have reviewed our annual report for certified local government. And they have notified us that we are, again in good standing. And so we are still for another year going to be part of the CLG program.

Also too, just as an FYI, we are keeping an eye on There is a bill proposed in the House and a similar one in the Senate, that would, allow counties and municipalities to enact legislation to provide ad valorem tax exemptions for historically designated properties. None of that is defined. It's all going to be on if a county or municipality elects to access legislation, what kind of guidelines or definitions they would have for that. So just kind of keeping an eye on that. There's potential there if it does pass and City Council has an interest that we may be looking at a possible other tax incentive or I should say an incentive for historic properties here in the city.

And that's all I have.

All right. Thank you. Any other comments?

See no further business.

All right. Now we will go ahead and adjourn.

Nicole? Grieving.

Sure.