Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

called to order at 5:30 on February 17th. And we have a quorum. Um, we'll be led in the pledge of allegiance by Lorraine to the flag of the United States of America. and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Um, first item of business, approval of the minutes. Um, anyone want to make a mo motion to approve? Make a motion to approve.

Okay. And uh second. All right. Motion approved and seconded. And uh any opposed? All in favor? I I. Any opposed? Okay, minutes are approved. Uh first item on our agenda after that. This will have a public hearing. Um this is uh the proposed Utah County land use ordinance text amendment section 8.16. Um we'll have here a staff report. Yep. Um, this is a staff initiated text amendment and Kevin Stinson from our staff will give you an intro.

First off, we hand out these to each of you.

Thank you. So, what you're seeing here is we have a slight modification from what was in the original packet. Um, and the reason for that is we after looking through it, we found some changes that we thought better fit the the county and staff um made those changes and thought they'd be better in line with what uh would would serve the people of the county. So, what this is, it's it's um mostly a housekeeping um item that we're going to be doing here on our temporary use structure. So, these are mostly these uh are our construction yards for um different uh projects throughout the county and then also things like our corn mazes and and whatnot. Um so, as you can see, um as we go through that very first one there, the small temporary event, um basically we've required that a frontage a frontage requirement is going to be needed for any of these events. Um and we have determined that that frontage requirement is 250 ft. And it um we also put in a stipulation in there that they could have uh for example, if somebody has a parcel, they own two parcels, one parcel's next to the road, the next parcel is where they're doing their corn maze or whatever the event may be, they they could still go across both of their parcels if they're in the same ownership. Um let's see. We did uh mention as well that they do need to be gaining access across that parcel. That's the big change that you'll notice from what was originally submitted. And then as you can see that same uh same change has been added to many of the different uh items in temporary use. We had Christmas tree Christmas tree sales uh the same condition. Um let's see to the seasonal holiday events and let's see I think the last one is the agra tourism seasonal sales and service and then the agurism as well. Um and we are here for any questions if you have

them. You said uh it specifies a frontage of 250 ft, right? Um, where does it say the 250 ft on the Was that Oh, I'm sorry. Was that a change that we had on? Yeah, that was actually a change. Oh, that was a change. I apologize. Yep. Yeah. There will be no um specific requirement just they have frontage. Some of these uses, you know, are are oddshaped lots and so it's not the same as a a dwelling that requires a 250 ft of of front lot width along the frontage. They just have to have frontage. We have other um provisions that are ordinance that will obviously they have to have an access driveway and there's a certain distance for that. So they obviously have to meet that.

Okay. There's no specific set width. So it's okay that we don't specify a particular length just that we say there needs to be a frontage and Yep. Okay. So So what's the criteria going to be uh for frontage then? just case by case. I'm not very So basically they just need to have a lot on a road um that that abuts a road. Um the reason for that is if they're landlocked, we we want traffic going across from a road to the the event instead of across

and access to the road. Right. So to follow up with that, there is a requirement for both um the the width of a road access to a road in the land use ordinance which is 10 ft but the fire marshall has more stringent requirements. They would have to meet the fire marshall's requirement for width. So it's mainly just for the access. This is really to ensure that whatever temporary use that they're they're wanting to do has access to a road and it's not going through somebody else's property that may or may not want to have that go through their property. So, it's just to ensure that the whatever temporary use that they're performing that where we changed it has the ability to get to the road where it can't be cut off at some point.

So, existing curb cut or approval from the state highway or county high whatever, right? They would have to get all a public works access uh permit if they were on a county road or UD do permit if they were on any or city access permit curb cut. And just to follow up just curious what prompted the change? What was the pressure that you guys were feeling?

We we had an application that came through or or somebody asking it wasn't an application somebody was asking about um property that was landlocked and they wanted access across somebody else's property and that current landowner was okay with it. But we started, you know, thinking this through. What happens if he sells and the next guy's not and this guy's put a million dollars investment into his his temporary use? Now all of a sudden he can't do it. So we wanted to make sure that we could allow them that access. So he didn't have to grant them a 250 foot easement. 16 foot or 32. Okay. All right.

Any further questions from the commission? Okay. Um, anything else from the staff? All right. Uh, this is subject to a public hearing. Um, entertain a motion to open the hearing or do I need to do we need a motion to open the hearing? Do we just Yeah, it's probably a good idea. So moved. Seconded. Uh, all in favor of opening a public hearing. I

seeing no opposed. Um we're now in public hearing. If anyone in the public would like to speak to this uh uh change in the county land use ordinance, um please come up to the microphone. And seeing seeing no public comment. Uh move. Anyone want a motion to close public hearing? I'll move to close it. Second. Moved and seconded. All in favor of closing the public hearing? I

I Okay. Public hearing closed. Um are we voting on this to to approve it or to send it to the commission? This would be a recommendation to the planning through the county commission.

Okay. Um, is there any discussion before we vote on it? If there's no further discussion, I'll move that uh the Utah County Planning Commission recommend approval of the proposed text amendments to section 8.16 of the Utah County Land use ordinance with modifications as specified in the staff report along with any applicable renumbering and reformatting in each section based on the findings listed in the staff report. Okay, it's been moved. Second and seconded. Um, all in favor, Mr. Chair, I'm sorry. Um,

technically the motion referenced as indicated in the staff report, there was a supplemental draft that was provided. Just want to make sure that that's the version that we're uh acting. Yes, the the version handed out here that does not specify a particular length. Good catch. I'll amend that motion to include the handout that was given to us during the meeting. Okay. Moved and seconded. Okay. Okay. All in favor of approving uh as noted I I

I. Any opposed? And that's unanimous. Okay. Moving on. Uh the next item on the agenda is conditional use application for Green Hollow Ranch LLC. Um hear a staff report on this one.

Yeah, Greg will take care of that today. Good evening. So, uh, this application is coming before you for a, um, rec reception center. Um, this is in the thistle area. And this is just a wide view of where that would be, um, in the county. This is kind of the zoning surrounding it. I'll get a little bit more zoomed in. So, there is a little bit of RA zoning surrounding it. Um, the three parcels that are included are kind of highlight are highlighted here. um they respectively um the first parcel the smallest parcel is 9.49 acres um that is in within a subdivision. That's where most of the the uses are uh the applicant has indicated that most of the uses will be handled or held. Um let me just that's let me see if I can zoom in a little bit. There you go. Um the other parcels are um let me make sure I get this right. A um sorryund uh 150 acres and or sorry 50 acres respective 136 acres and and 50 acres respectively. Both of those parcels contain, as I showed you before, split zoning. Um, this is going to become a little bit important a little bit later in my um report. Each a reception center in the RA5 zone has a requirement for 10 acres and um 500 feet of frontage. In the C1 zone, it has a minimum acreage of 50 acres and 330 ft of frontage. Um the parcel that they're anticipating having most of their activities is not large enough nor does it have enough frontage for that. Um and as indicated in the staff report that is something that will

need to be addressed by the applicant to be able to meet those minimum requirements. Um there is a relatively simple way to make those changes without um too much difficulty that that we can work with the applicant on kind of addressing if they want to kind of deal with it the way that I think be easiest for them to handle. Um but either way, the ordinance would require that the parcel they're having the reception center be at least for the RA5 be at least 10 acres and 500 ft of frontage. So that would have to be addressed prior to issuing any permits um for the reception center. Um to go through a little bit more of that those requirements. So the area around it is generally the um oh that's a little too far out. Sorry. um similar uses agricultural um recreational um and a few different um residences in the area. The nearest one is about a half a mile away from this this parcel or this lot. the it appears that the property does have access to a the Spanish Fork City water system, which will be beneficial for them if they were able to get um to get a connection to that and um permission to be able to have enough water for that use. There is a condition in that has been added to the staff report to address that. Um, Commissioner Love brought up a good point in an email that there was a note on a uh their deed that kind of addresses an easement that hopefully that the that was a good concern. However, I think that the condition in the staff

report does address that specific concern and will kind of cover any issue that they might may have. If they cannot get access to or permission from Spanish Fork to use that water, then they still have the ability to do their own water system and go through the state to do a public water system. Um, there is access onto Highway 68 there. There is an existing bridge that the fire marshal was a little bit concerned that it may not meet fire um access requirements that they would have to address. Um there is a condition added for that as well. U do um this is a U dot road so they would also need to get um permission from UD do for that access. There is an existing access for the this property was used previously for um a residential treatment center if I'm not mistaken or a facility for um people with disabilities. The um so that there is an access from UD do for this property. However, with the change of use, we just want to be confident that UD do is aware of that and and can review any any changes that may need to be made or addressed through their process. Um, they would and their condition does require them to provide evidence that they have consulted and gotten an access approval from UD do. Uh there there is also just similar requirements that I've added as conditions just to kind of give you a little bit of an idea that um public works has their own requirements for SWIP if there is any construction that needs to be done that needs to be covered by a SWIP or any other public works requirements. Um the fire marshall also wanted to make sure that they any fire suppression or uh system and flow standards were met.

So there's a condition specific to that. This structure will be required to have um a new building permit to address any building code requirements for the assembly. Um so they will would will need to work with the um building department to get a permit and meet whatever building code requirements are in there. for that type of use. Um the they didn't indicate what parking would uh be required or what what parking was was how many parking stalls were necessary. They did indicate where the those parking areas would be. There is a parking requirement um specified in the in the ordinance that they would need to meet. that requirement um is one stall per 30 ft of guest assembly area per our code. They would just need to show that they meet that requirement and have surfacing appropriate for that parking area. Um currently this two structures existing are under an A. They're permitted through an A permit. they would not be allowed to be used for any kind of assemblies or any they the applicant did not indicate that they would use those for any kind of activities. Um but just to make you aware that those are um agricultural permits that that would not be allowed to be used unless a building permit was issued for that a specific use to be used for that purpose. Um I think that covers most of the things that um were in the staff report. If you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer those. And the applicants are here to address any questions if you have questions for the applicants.

Okay. Um, any questions from the commission for staff?

I I just have a question and and this doesn't really even this is a little bit of a side note. Does you don't care what the use is or do they just care about the volume or just care about is there an access or not? I'm just kind of curious.

Sometimes they do. It depends on the use does sometimes matter because the volume and and this is kind of one of those situations where they might have an issue with it because the volume at one time can be excessive. Um so generally they don't have improvement requirements for a lot of these uses. Um but they may have a specific requirement. The county, if it was a county road, would probably have requirements for um excess or uh turn lanes and uh deceleration acceleration lanes to to accommodate the traffic that happens all at one time generally. So, but you're right. Sometimes UD do doesn't have an issue with it, but just wanted to make sure that UD do was okay.

No, I I think that's smart. Can I one other question? I didn't drive up there. I should have, but is this the property that used to be Willie Nelson's house? It's not that one, is it? It's a different one. Okay. I just in my mind I have nothing there for a while. So I I knew he had a home up there, a white house, but you're This is different. Okay. Is this further? I think the the property is further north. I think Willy's I think I know where it is then. Yeah. I do know that uh UD do is going to be doing some construction on the highway 6 89 US89 junction there to make it safer.

Yeah, that will be nice for that act for receptions. Definitely. Okay. Uh any other questions for staff? If not, we'll invite the applicant to come up. Hi. Um, anything you want to tell us about it? Um, um, yeah, we, uh, you know, we state your name.

My name is Robert Mson. I'm with Green Hollow Catering. We're we're the ones who purchased this property and are looking into turning it into an event center. Um, we purchased this property a few months ago. um like was noted earlier, it was once a residential treatment center and so a lot of the existing um fire codes and stuff like that um should help us out in a lot of those cases. We are reaching out to you DOT to talk about the the access to the uh the property. Um in speaking to the previous owner, we did talk about the 10 acres needed for it to be zoned um for an event center. Um, we read under the impression that the previous owner was going to do that before the completion of the sale. I don't know if that has been started or if they're working on that or if that just kind of got lost in there, the paperwork or whatnot, but that is something that we have we've talked about a little bit and that we definitely can address with the commission and and making it the 10 acres and it needs to be for since we do all own all the surrounding property around it all. So, it shouldn't be too hard for us to do that.

Okay. Any questions from the commission to the applicant? Another question. Can a site plan cross um partial lines? Does that matter? A site plan can include multiple lots or parcels, but structures will have to respect the the property lines for setbacks. Okay. So, you do you get water from Spanish Fork? Yeah, we're actually are hooked up to Spanish Fork City Water Supply. Yeah. And so we can pro provide a letter from them. That is one thing we did check. Um talking with Greg before we even submitted the application, he he made note that was something that's important for us to check out on.

Um and so we did we did contact Spanish Fork City and we are connected that the the pipeline for Spanish Fork actually goes through our property and so we are that's why we are hooked up to it because they granted us access to that to put it on the property. The previous owner told us must have a spring up there. Who knew they'd have a water line that far the canyon, right? Okay, this is just a like a side question. As a business owner, have you guys done research in terms of because that's that's a pretty, you know, going up Highway Six and going over Billy's Mountain. I mean, I live up highway six and so Yeah. are are you concerned about just people's willingness to go up Highway 6 and then and obviously with the 89 Highway 6 fix with UD do that makes a huge difference.

Yes, for sure. But is that have you you know done research where people are going to be willing to go all that way because I know people think oh it's such a long Yeah. So I mean the research we've done we've been a catering company for 20 years and and been in event venue centers over these past 20 years. Um this is within our our business. Our catering kitchen is located in Oram. It's 37 minutes from our catering kitchen in Oram. And so I mean we've driven hours to event centers honestly. Um, so for someone coming from Spanish Fork, Mapleton, that area where it's under a half an hour, they're more than willing to to drive that distance. It's not it's not so much the the the distance. It's the trip. But that's

No, it's just it's just Highway six is pretty treacherous, especially in the winter time because I live up there and I you know, like it just there's going to be some times where it's like maybe the winter you're not going to be having I mean just it could be really touch and go. Yeah, we we haven't done any research on that, you know. Um, but just our experience being in the catering company and doing so many events per year has led us to believe that, you know, destination weddings and these kind of outdoor weddings are so popular right now um that, you know, will be profitable and and something that would benefit the community and us as a business.

Are there any of the uh conditions here that you have concerns about? No, honestly, looking over everything, it seems something that's easily feasible for us to do and yeah, within we Yeah, we'd be able to do that. Yeah. Was this area what would have been the old thistle town kind of nearby it or I think it's down below maybe. Okay, so it's down just a little bit south.

I guess I have a question for staff. Um, will you guys be reviewing their permit from UDOT before it goes to county commissioners or what what's the process on that? Um, so we don't necessarily review it. They'll just give us a letter stating that they've been approved for the use and the and the location. And just one note this this this conditional uses do not go to the county commission. You are the land use authority for this uh the conditional use. This is it. Get it right. No pressure. Pressure is all on you.

I'm just checking out the street view really quick on the highway 89 there. Um, okay. Any if there's no further discussion, we'll thank you for Thank you. Appreciate it being here. Uh, and this is not subject to public comment. So, is is there anyone from the public who wants to speak to it? Okay. Just thought I'd check. Uh just have one question for staff. Yeah. Do you guys are you you concerned that that would set a precedent and then now along Highway 89 you're going to have other people wanting to do things and for a reception center or for

um we do occasionally get requests generally um as far as requests for reception centers with the connection to a water system. I think that this is actually one of the few areas that I've seen in the county that um is well situated to be able to do that. Um there may be other people that want to do reception centers. Um generally the requests that we've gotten have been so separated by distance and we this is the first one we've had on on this highway. Um so we haven't had any other um requests. So I don't know that this is necessarily going to set a precedence anything other than what we currently already allow in the ordinance. The other other thing I'd mention is this has gone through a legislative action to deem it an appropriate conditional use in this subject zones. And so if if a use is allowed in the zone, then as long as they can meet the requirements of the ordinance, then they're entitled to approval. So

didn't we review one that uh was up the diamond fork, the fork before Billy's Mountain year or so ago, a couple years ago? Yep. Yeah. This is I don't think they've gotten to the point where they've um pursued a building permit, but I do believe they have an approved conditional use.

Yeah, they have been approved for conditional use. They are close to submitting. They're trying to work through the health department requirements, which again, it mainly dealing with the the public water system because of the number of people accessing that. Um so that process has been taking them about this long to be able to get through. So they still haven't gotten through that point. And I guess I want to follow up on my last comment. The purpose of a conditional use is to one make sure that they meet the requirements of the ordinance, but also to um ascertain any um reasonably anticipated detrimental effects and then attach conditions that reasonably mitigate those. So that's kind of really um the purpose of uh of the review for the conditional use.

And I think it's been good to spill all these out and everybody seems in alignment there. Um, any other any further discussion from the commission? Okay. Anyone want to entertain a motion?

Sure. I'll make a motion. I move that the Utah County Planning Commission approve the conditional use permit CU206-01, which is a request for reception center located at 14048 South Highway 89 in the Thistle area of unincorporated Utah County, subject to the staff findings included in the staff report and the 12 minimum conditions that are listed in the staff findings. Okay, we have a motion. I can second that. And a second.

All in favor of approving uh with those conditions as specified say I. I. I. Any opposed? Passes unanimous. Okay, moving on to our next item. We have an agriculture pro protection area. uh creation of the Beck Farm, Thompson family farm, RSAR D and DW Miller and livestock. So Kevin will handle this. Um this first item is just something that's required by uh state code that we make the planning commission aware of uh recently approved protection areas. I believe that's what this first one is.

That's correct. Yeah. By state code, we just need to come back to you and let you know what happened. I think it was last month on those those four egg protection areas. They were all approved through the commission. Um and uh they had the modifications um for the the additional prior properties. Um the streets were removed um at a lesser uh right of way than what was originally requested by public works. So Okay. Okay. All right. Um I guess there's no further discussion on that topic. Um item number two, South Fork Land. Is that also covered in this or is this a

This is a new agriculture protection area. Okay. A new application. I haven't done any other. Okay. So, this one here is um this is by the uh PAC hospital. Um so just in between PAC and Salem there you can kind of see on the top left is that X building. Um that's uh the PAC

that's the care center if I recall. The hospitals further to the left. Uh, and then in blue is are the two partials that we're looking at. Now, the the um applicant's request, I don't believe I don't see him here today. Um, he owns both those properties. And as you can see, there's already um uh he requested the roads, not the the outlining uh perimeter. Um uh sorry, he requested the parcels, not the outlining uh perimeter. So, we do have the road um excluded from that uh to an extent as well. Um, so this one, as you can see, it is uh in the location we talked about is in the RA5 zone. Um, and with PAC to the north and it is in PAC's annexation policy plan. They were made aware of this um and and have no objections to it. Um, and then as well we've got um you can see the surrounding areas and you can see that picture at the beginning. It is farm farmland and and agricultural use. to the north is a a fairly large apartment complex and then uh a little bit more to the the west are some more residential areas and then of course all the farmland around it. A little bit closer view you can see that it is currently being used for grazing. Um and so that's what they're they're requesting is that egg protection. Um and there it is. So um it um is does meet the minimums. Um apologies. Let me grab my report here. So, it does meet the the requirements from state code. It has 20 uh I had it right here. Sorry. Uh 21.38 acres. Um and there were no objections or modifications or anything during the protest period.

So, here for any other questions. Can you go back? Sorry. Can you go back one slide? Y. So the carve out here on the south parcel. What what's just curious about that? The the blue the blue line is the two parcels that he requested and then that sorry the yellow down the middle. The public works actually did have a request for a 56 foot rightway um removal as well. Um are you talking about the parcel underneath parcel 47? No, it's the it's next to the yellow between the yellow and the blue. That just happened to be how the parcels were dedicated at one point. um and and beat it over and so so who owns the other parcel that it's the county. It's the road. So you're talking about the piece between them.

Yeah. So that yellow line is the road and then for whatever reason they already included the anticipated road width. Okay. That's what it looks like is the road width. I just curious that it doesn't go all the way further back. Yeah. The county needs to do something with that property. Come on. I'm sure as development comes they'll do as needed.

Any any further discussion? Seeing no further discussion. Um and I don't see anyone here to make a public comment about it. So, uh this this by statute requires a public hearing at the county commission level. So, they'll Okay. be other notices indicating that they'll give people opportunity if they so choose. So, um we're just we're going to be motioning to or voting on whether to u recommend recommendations. Okay. Anyone want to make a motion?

Okay. Make a motion. It's that staff recommendation um to approve. The Utah County Planning Commission recommends approval to the Utah County Commission of the proposed creation of the South Fork Land 2026 agricultural protection area for agriculture protection which includes approximately 21.38 acres. Um sighting eight which is less than less the county road 21 do I need to say this? 2100 west with 56. Okay. but right of way per the Utah County Public Works and based on the staff report and minimum findings listed above.

I'll second that. Okay. Motioned and seconded. All in favor? I I I. Any opposed. Motion passes. Moving right along. We have some other business. Training and discussion on the Utah Open and Public Meetings Act. Before we get to that, just one one item. Last month was mentioned that um uh the Republican party's caucuses are going to be held next uh in March during our scheduled planning commission meeting. Yes. Um fortunately, we have been able to uh cancel that meeting. We did have one applicant, but they were okay waiting till the April meeting. Okay.

So, uh just let you know that we will not be having to reschedule a special meeting and um clear your calendar tonight. So, cool. And since you've made the effort to be here tonight, we're gonna keep you a little longer and do a little training. Okay. So, that's our next item. All right. Dale from our attorney's office will walk you through this excitement and only because it's required by law. Okay. And you enjoy doing um sure about that. Can you confirm that?

This this is something we have to do. Um it usually leads some to some good discussion, but um we'll just I'll just kind of give you the overview of what what we're doing here. Um if you've had anything to do with government, you've heard about the open and public meetings act, OPMA. Um we we reference it often. So this is what we're talking about. The purpose um it, you know, it's it's one of the most important laws on the books. Um, it keep it keeps all of government work in the open in front of people. Um, it's about government transparency. Um, that that second point there is probably when you want to commit to memory. A meeting is open to the public unless closed pursuant to law. So, the presumption is they're all open. Okay. if if it's a bo if it's a public body um it's sunshine law um you'll see that um the the that's actual statutory language there uh that we take our actions openly and conduct their deliberations openly um you know in this day and age um I'm preaching to the choir you know every everyone understands this and this is what we need to do and I also included the reference on why we have to do this every year um I decided Hey, I hated doing this at the end of the year when you guys are tired and we want to just move on. Let's do it the first year and get it over with. So, you won't have to bother with it. Sorry, I was moving mine, too. Hey, how do you go back, guys? Oh, okay. Yep.

Okay. So, first you have to decide if we're a public um probably need that little stealing that this is an open violation right now. Okay. He might have it open there. Um you'll see that happen in public meetings. Um someone will just close the door because it gets too noisy like when they were when they were doing construction here. or he's locking just locking us in to get done with the train

and and people would just grab the door and close it because it was too too loud. Well, we have to stop the meeting, go open back the door, and um anyway, it's just something we need to make sure happens. So, first you decide if you're a public body. Now, I can tell you right now you guys are, but there's a there's a there's a statutory definition for it. Um you know, those those are the elements there. It has to meet one one of those criteria. administrative, advisory, executive, legislative, has to be created by a law or an ordinance uh which was a statute or consisting of two or more per people. Um expend, disperse or supported by tax dollars. Usually these are easily met. Okay. So most most of our bodies here at the county are are public bodies and vested with authority to make decisions. Um the next the next definition though is important and you'll hear us talk about that a lot. Quorum. You can't start one of these meetings without a quorum. we can't act. We can't do anything. And so we're always that's why if you if you didn't know that's the reason Maurice sends out those emails and it's not that we're trying to bother you or harass you. It's we need four or we can't go forward. So that's kind of why we're waiting for those responses and you know not trying to delve into your private life and what's going on but just need to know if four people can show up. And just to add, I mean, we appreciate your your responses on those. Sometimes we'll have applicants that are coming from out of state and if for whatever reason something comes up and we can't have a meeting, we want to have advanced notice and we can let them know and kind of make arrangements. So, we appreciate your guys' responses on this.

Well, Marie is good at she's also good at like if we don't respond like we need one person. Yeah. Sometimes I thought I responded and I didn't. So, yeah. Don't don't be offended, but we'll we'll track you down. Yeah. And this is why. Yeah. you can blame this law.

Um so we also have to decide what a meeting is. Um these become important when um we have litigation over on whether we violated OPMA which is also a criminal act. So and I'll get to that at the end here. But um so it becomes very important that we meet all the statutory definitions of a of a meeting um gathering public body quorum present quorum. So if there were only three of you here, uh we could violate every OPMA violate or requirement. As soon as there's a fourth one, we need to adhere to the law. Um convene. This was a little bit different. Um so in order for it to be a an official public meeting, it has to be convened. And this is a new this is a new requirement for us. You know, we're still all getting used to this. I I I think it's workable. I don't think it's a problem. Um I think it's two years ago now the state legislators decided they wanted to mess with OPMA. Uh I don't know if they thought something was being done wrong or I actually felt like it was maybe coming from out of state, but they wanted they made some changes and for better or worse with all legislation, you know, they make some things better and they make some things worse. Um this was one of the changes convened. Um so in order for it to be a public meeting it has to be convened by a person with authority to convene the meeting which there is usually the chair um for the express purpose to receive public comment deliberate about or take action. Okay. So all of those things have to be met or it's not a public meeting. I I wonder if that had anything to do with uh our threeperson commission because anytime you get two of them together, you have a quorum and

how much can they deliberate about things without it being a meeting. I know that was a that's something that's been discussed for a few years now, but decades. Yeah. And it's still a problem. Yet we still hold on to the three commissioner

uh commission. I I don't know why. Um, but yes, it comes up all the time. And you'll see right down here the statutory definition that is for our three commissioner commissions to allow them to talk about things that are managerial or operational. Okay? Because some commissions wear both hats like ours. They have to be able to do that. So, it's still a problem. I Okay, I'll I'll show you what they think fixed it. I don't know if it fixed it or not. Um, okay. Here are just some some general things to remember about OPMA. All all meetings are open unless closed by law. We record all meetings. Um, the next slide is the one I'll get into about uh their their supposed fix to all of the problems. Um, also has public notice requirements which I think are very important. And then of course again uh the reason we're doing this is it's required by law. Okay. So, this is the new the new thing that they added. Um, of course, they were concerned about and and like you said, it's the three commission commissions are are the problem. Three commissioner commissions. Um, how do you avoid just talking in the office every day or in the hallway? And so, what they came up with is what's called a predetermined action. we're going to let these commissioners talk as long as they're not acting together. So, some kind of cons, you know, almost a conspiracy type intent outside of a meeting in a concerted and deliberate way. These are new words. I I don't have definitions for you from from the courts. In a concerted and deliberate way to predetermine an action to be taken at the meeting. So basically getting together and deciding how they're going to vote or how they're

going to get the other person to vote or you know really anything they're doing to to to influence a public meeting. It can can occur by any means of communication. So text messages um very important. Um and the last point is kind of our warning. We don't have any law on this. No, no cases to try it. But simply asking a member's inclination on a vote could constitute a violation. Now, the great thing about you guys is if two or you two are you, you would not be a quorum. So, you wouldn't be violating this. Um, you but two commissioners talking about something on the agenda could easily violate it. So, they still have to be careful. They're saying you guys can talk but they still have to be very careful. So I don't know if it fixed it and until we see it challenged we don't know if it works. Um you know we would have to prove all of those things. They're acting together. They're outside of a meeting. It's concerted and deliberate and they're predetermining an action. So we'll we will wait and see.

Is that the county burden or the public public's burden or is that the objecting person?

It it's the objecting. Um, however, um, anyone can enforce an OLA violation. The attorney general's required to, the county attorney's required to. So, it could come up in a lot of ways. It could come up in a prosecution. Uh, it's a class B misdemeanor to violate OLA. So, all of those factors could be coming into a criminal trial. So, I'm sure we're going to see this tested, but we just haven't yet. It's it's so new. Um but but I think the message is clear what they're saying. Hey, don't be getting together and trying to do things that should be done in a public meeting. I think if once we all get that and and you know there's a conversation and it starts going the wrong way, you just say, "Hey, I I don't think we should be talking about this." And that that ends it. Um the notice requirements, usually you guys don't have to do anything about this. Marie takes care of everything. It's it's well done. It's all documented. We've never had a problem with this. But it's good to know that your meetings are required to give the public 24 hours notice. Um that's even if it's an emergency meeting. You know, we we have we have uh we have some some leeway on an emergency meeting, but they're still saying get notice to the public as fast as you can and as as much as you can. Um, it tells us what we have to tell them and then it tells us where the notice requirement can be satisfied. And you'll see I think it's fairly good the Utah public notice website. Anyone familiar with that can look up a notice on any public body on our county website. We notice we we post it. So, you know, that's come up a couple times in some of the conditional use uh approvals that we that we've done. People worry about notice. Um, I don't know that you have to worry too much about notice. Utah state laws and

the counties are even stricter in giving notice. Um, people get notice. What they don't get is someone slapping them in the head and saying, "Hey, read that, open your mail, um, take notice, ask questions, make phone calls." That's what people really need to do. I think that's where we where we lack in our in our public uh interactions and participation. Dale, one thing I'd add on this is um you know the 24 hours is for any public meeting, but if you have a public hearing item, state statute requires 10 days and so we just send all of our notices out 10 days um to kind of get in that cadence and you want to get people as much prior notice as possible. So

yeah. Well, and that's a good point, Bryce. This is just to the public. Now, if someone's if someone's affected by what we're doing, uh we call them affected land owners or interested in interested party, interested entity, they actually get their own notice, okay? Mailed to them. And so, like I said, there's a lot of notice going on behind the scene, okay? Um and this is just public. This is this is just Joe public. We want them to know where we're meeting and what we're doing. Can I ask a question? Yeah. So, I think I just think it's a little it's a little confusing for me, maybe not for other lawyers, but like hearing versus meeting, like can you differentiate between that? I mean, that's

because for you know, I don't have that legal ease. So, to me, they're the same thing almost. Right. But maybe not to you, but I think most people would be like, what's the difference? Yeah.

Right. So all meetings by a public body are meetings. When whenever they're together, it's a public meeting. That that's a very general term. Um public hearing is a very specific uh term that that describes where we have to have a public meeting um noticed up and available for anyone to to speak to to some issue. Okay. Um, a public hearing is all about we need to get public input on this issue and and state law decides if it's a hearing. Okay? We don't we don't just decide that. You don't just decide that. Um, in fact, never never been asked by a commissioner, but I don't think you as a commission can just say, "Hey, we want to have public hearing." You could have a public comment period. Public hearing is something defined by state law and it's required. So in in when when Bryce talks about a public hearing, he means there's a statute or an ordinance that requires us to have that. Okay? For some reason, whatever we're doing, the whoever wrote the law decided we need to make sure the public that we get public comment on this. So they require a public hearing before we can proceed. Okay? Like that like the APA, the uh a production areas. Um, state law requires a public hearing. For whatever reason, they've decided we need to hear from the public before we create these.

Okay. Generally, a public meeting is every time we meet, public hearing could be inside a public meeting. Yes. We might have one public meeting with three public hearings. Yes, you might. Okay. Yeah. Very That's a really good way to describe that.

Yeah. Generally, just the ones that you're going to be aware of that you're going to be dealing with are going to be text amendments, zone map amendments, general plan amendments are the ones you generally will be dealing with. So, anytime like this time when we amended the text of the ordinance, there was a requirement for a public hearing. So, those that one um general plan amendments where we amend the general plan and then zone map amendments where we make a zone change for somebody. So, those are the ones that you mainly deal with. in in your body.

And you may have noticed the his examples, legislative decisions, legislative decisions where we're making law or you're recommending law be made. And so we need to hear from the public about that.

And I'm sorry to jump in. I I think it's noteworthy that state law mandates that public hearing be held at the planning commission level, not not the legislative body, but at the planning commission level, which really emphasizes the importance of of your role in those legislative matters. And then it's probably also important to note since from what you've been through in the last year or so, there is no public hearing for a conditional use approval. Okay, that's an administrative decision. Important distinction there. There's other the other type of administrative decisions that that that we do in government. There's no public hearing because we're limited in what we can consider. Okay. So, couple things coming up there. Those are good questions though. Uh public not so public notice. Um this is this is just making sure that what we send out gives them enough information to know what's going on. Uh so if they're interested in it, they can be here. Um, as you've seen, the public doesn't show up a lot. Um, Ultma requires written minutes for all meetings. These become the official record of your meeting. So, when you approve those minutes, it's actually a very important thing you're doing. I I don't know if you realize that, but um once you approve that, that's the official record. So if we end up in court or someone is trying to get to to establish what has happened at the county comm planning commission level, that's what they'll do. They'll go request all of those and that will be the official record for this for this body.

I always try to go and make sure that everything that has my name by it. Absolutely. Make sure you're right there. You know what whatever you did. I may not be able to go through the entire thing, but I make sure if it's got my name at the very least. And then if you notice other things, someone picked up something. Yeah. Solar. Yeah. And please, please, we we're not offended. If you feel like it was misrepresented or something missing, if we ever need to, we can pull the recording and verify that. So, and Marie does as good a minutes as anyone at the county.

But still, there can be mistakes. Let's clear them up, make it good. Um, so the statute tells us what needs to be in the minutes. You'll see that there. Um, I don't know if you have any questions there. It tells us when we have to have those available. All of that's good stuff. You know, the public needs to see this stuff right away and and have and have a record for them to um to use for whatever purpose they have. Recordings. Um requires us to record all the meetings also a good requirement. Um that needs to be out there. You know, I'm sure someday we'll be involved in litigation and the recordings will be important and we'll have those to to refer to.

Just so you know, you guys, this these are on YouTube. So, if you want to your family misses you tonight, they can kind of follow your trail. If you want to go back and watch it and look at your good looking face, that's not our official recording. Marie that we do we do uh one of our commissioners asked that we put these on YouTube and so these are these are on YouTube. They're streamed live as they happen. And I was going to mention that I do know county commissioners watch these because I'll get calls after. So they do watch. I I love having uh for example schoolboard meetings that they are posting online because

we're all busy. We all got stuff to do. But I can go back and rewatch it say one and a half speed a meeting that I really needed wanted to hear about and it's great that we have that opportunity where years past, you know, it may not have been easy to do. So Oh yeah. Yeah. Especially in the contentious meetings. because I had to go back and watch something. Someone accused me of saying something. I'm like, I hope I didn't went back and watched. I did not say what they said. Then why are the commissioners calling you for this meeting? Why would they call you? Well, they they want to know what the kind of background on things, especially things that are going to show up on on their their agenda. Yeah.

May help them to not ask a same question over and over. It's already been addressed.

Yeah. Um you'll also notice there that um we we require anyone who speaks if they bring something for the commission they have to have copies for us. That's required by law. It has to be in our record. Uh you know if they if they want you to consider something they need to bring a copy of it and all of that so that there's a there's a complete record for for you know for whatever use later down the road. It's not just what's happening here. This this is an important event that may be used for some other reason later and and we need to have an official and complete copy of it. Okay. You can close meetings. Um I don't we've never closed a meeting but we came close we came close in a meeting once where where it was there was the threat of litigation for a an administrative decision and there was a legal issue that I needed to provide some legal opinion or guidance. and we considered closing for that and we would be allowed to. So there's a you'll see this list of reasons you can close but you have to meet the definition for that closed meeting and you also have to vote on it. So the body would have to say yes, we're going to close this. Um people get in trouble for closing meetings. So that's why we go over and I don't anticipate us doing it here and I think that's a good thing because you know you can't get in trouble if you're not trying to close meeting. Doesn't that posted on the agenda the potential of a closed session?

Yes. Yes. Um you'll notice that the commission has that on every agenda. And they'll announce at the beginning of their meeting which of the closed sessions they're going to be holding. Yeah.

Um let's see. So the first point is is just that's law. A mean all meetings are open unless they're closed according to law. um when it is closed, this is important, but I'll just mention it quickly. Um during the closure, you can only discuss, you can't act on a topic. Okay? And it's only one of the closed topic. So, you can't close for one reason, then start talking about something else. Okay? Um like I said, I I hope we don't have to do that. Um th those are the list of the reasons. Um, you'll see the first one, the second one, the third one are usually always on the county commission. Um, because they just have the these things coming up all the time. Questions there? Um, the these are all statutory. There's a definition for them. If we close a meeting, we make sure we've met that and we have a vote and it's all on the record. Um, let me see. Let's see. Um, there are things that are outlawed, prohibited by statute that you can do in a closed meeting. Um, kind of an interesting list. Um, clearly the first one, you can't approve an ordinance, resolution, rule, or contract while you're in that. Um, you can't take a final vote. The next one was interesting. Interview or discuss candidates for appointment to vacant elected positions. I think there's a story behind that one. I've always wanted to know what it is. I don't know what it is. It might be boring to most people, but I thought it was interesting. Um, this one this one includes all of the all of the closed sessions are recorded. They're not made public,

but they're recorded in case there's any kind of claim or litigation involving that with the exception of the meetings closed for individuals character, competence or health. Okay. So, um that's the one that's not recorded. It's the only it's the only meeting ever not recorded. Okay. The reason for that is it's they can get you can get in very very sensitive physical health, mental health, uh, you know, reputation type things that just probably shouldn't be recorded. There is a provision in OPA for emergency meetings. Again, I hope this never happens to you. County commissioners have to deal with it. You know, something comes up and you have to address it immediately. There's a provision for that. They're not going to say, you know, the commission can't commission has to wait till tomorrow to declare an emergency, you know, state of emergency. No, they're not going to do that. So, it is provided for. There is a policy for it. And um I'm I just feel good that we'll never probably had never have to do that. Electronic meetings. This one is important. Um we do have a the ability to have electronic meetings. Uh you know, during CO this was very important. Um it could happen again. you know, something happened down here at the county. Um, something with this building, we might have to meet electronically. We have a policy for that and we would to set it up. Requires notice. Uh, requires you to all to be on on on online. Uh, requires all of our votes to be taken by roll call so that we make sure that that's all documented. And violations. So, you know, I would not be doing my job if I didn't tell you it is a class B misdemeanor to violate OMA. And and and you know, having been a prosecutor before, that's not something you want to mess with. It it's for real. It happens. Um just take these these few principles and just keep them in your head. You know, every meeting's open. Uh we can't predetermine

actions and you'll be okay. Um, can you guys give us like because because we had that that recent one in the fall with Pacific Corps and and we we all got I mean at least I did I had people coming I mean I have no idea how they even found you know our not even our residents our work site which is really rare like Oh I didn't they actually went to our work Yeah. Oh I was not aware of that. Yeah. And I've like I mean it was weird. It was like because I mean like we're not like we're off Highway 89 and um like it's really hard to find where we work

and so I had I mean so I I knew at some point because you and I have talked a lot about that like I was basically saying like you whatever you want to give me you you need to give to Marie and but I can't really like I can't say anything and he's super concerned but that was you know that was a community out of Salem and I just it'd be nice to get a heads you know like maybe you guys can give us a heads up if you think there's going to be a controversial topic ahead of time just saying you know there's a possib or or even if for me I didn't know that other people are getting those issues either I don't know it just be nice give us a head up so that maybe there's a controversial topic that you might be people might be coming to you

okay and and that's not necessarily an ultma violation that's the exparte um problem that we discussed

um I'll just reiterate though that we are your staff say we are available I consider the attorney's office well I should only speak for myself available 247 I used to work with police officers and they didn't have hours so I was a I I say the same thing to you um you I now have a phone that I can carry for the county so and it's on all the times and you are allowed to call that anytime okay same thing with staff these folks are in this office, most of them every day. Um, you know, someone coming to your work, I would I wouldn't I wouldn't have a problem with you calling my cell phone saying someone is at my work talking about this issue. Okay? Wouldn't have any problem with that at all. We would we would address it. We'd handle it however we need.

I could call you and say, "Talk to talk to Dale." Yes. Okay. Yes. If that needs to happen. Yes. um you know and it would basically be you need to leave this person alone. She is a volunteer commission member harassed or anything but it certainly was put me in an awkward position and then explain to them the proper way to get come down to here everything you want to give me. I can't look at it you need mail. Yeah. I'm sorry, but I was a little bit frustrated when I heard that I wasn't the only one and it's, you know, so they had already heard it at least from somebody that that was not appropriate and yet they kept doing it. Oh,

because there were I'm guessing almost all of us had some kind of a disruption from one of the people that's on the website now, right?

Yes. Yeah. We we and we certainly take your privacy seriously. We live in a world where things things can be found. But we do get requests for your your information and we we do not provide that at all. Um we've have created a planning commission email specifically that we direct people to including on our notices and that's really kind of the way for for them to communicate um with planning commissions through that. um common OPMA violations of those of those probably you're not going to do any of those without us being around staff and we help you. We will we will always tell you, hey, be careful. The only one that was not there that might be a problem is the predetermined action. You know, because by definition, that's probably happening outside of our presence. As long as it's not four or more of you getting together and, you know, colluding on what the vote's going to be on the C conditional use approval on the agenda next month. That's not going to happen. Okay. But that would be the one that you'd need to be think about. Um, and you guys will probably sit on other boards, I'm guessing. You know, if you're if you're doing this volunteer work, you're probably going to sit on other boards. same rules as long as

well. And this is good to know because there are other boards that we serve or that serve us, you know. So, it's good for us to know for the county commission or for the school board or whatever.

And sometimes it'll be the person in the audience that says, "Hey, you can't do this." That'll make them stop and think. Um, these are the common violations. Not that you guys would get in trouble with this, but uh if if we don't if we don't provide the right notice, which includes um discussing public matter outside of a public meeting, so that that could happen. Closing a meeting without without a vote. I could see a board doing that that doesn't meet very often. Uh closing for a meeting for a reason not allowed by OPMA, that could happen. um taking official action, something that's not on the agenda, they actually try to take action, it's not on the agenda, or they just met close session, come out. So, it it helps for all of us to know these principles and just help, you know, our other boards maybe comply with them. Um, that's pretty much it. There's case law, there's there's all kinds of case law if you wanted it. Um, uh, the one

law,

the one I love is the one from Richfield where I'm from. Um, they they they really made a mess of a case, but they gave us good oatmeal law. They gave us good open law that um if you do something wrong like it wasn't on the agenda or it was in a closed meeting, you can you can cure that defect by noticing it up properly, coming into a public meeting, listening to the public, and then taking action. So, I guess that was a good thing. Anyway, that is all of OPMA. Um you have time to ask questions. You can do it now, you can do it later. Um we've we've also talked about um just your general law governing planning commission, administrative decisions, legislative decisions, exarty contacts. Um you have any questions about that? Do you want to spend time doing it? Do you want to wait until those questions come up? It's kind of up to you.

What is what did you say the last one? Ex exparte contacts. What was that? So um I really should give you um members should disclose any exparte contacts or communications regarding any matter on the agenda at the beginning of the meeting. So if they if somebody contacts us outside of this meeting, we need to make that public in this meeting. Yeah. We need to fill out. Hey, so and so came and contacted me and I told him I can't talk about this, but Oh, really? You have to You have to say that. So, I I wasn't at the meeting. You should disclose that. I wasn't at the big meeting. That was the thing.

Well, and um so I wouldn't have been here to have said, you know, and the person who I'm sure who contacted me, I forget his name now. I'm sure he was at the meeting. Yes. So, I would have had to say, "Hey, yo, you if you just disclose someone contact." Okay. So, you don't have to say the name. Yeah. You don't have to say the name. No. Okay. Oh, okay. What what you're doing is you're you're putting your fellow commissioners on notice. If they think something happened to make you bias, they might think you need to recuse yourself or you might there might be a discussion about the mafia came and you got to vote on this a certain way. you know, they might want to hear more.

So, in that situation though, really, it's like you got a bunch of people here and I'm like I I was contacted by somebody about this and they're very passionate about it. Really, you guys within a couple minutes you can come to a conclusion like, "Yeah, Langra, we don't we should recuse yourself." Like, you think you can come? Yes, we get. I think I think the biggest thing is just making it public like, hey, this happened and we want it all in the sunshine so that nobody can accuse me of later on.

I was you were in cahoots with so and so. Well, no, it was disclosed in the public meeting that I had been that this person in contact. So if I had been at that meeting, the very long one, which I wasn't, you guys, if I had been at that meeting, I could I would had to say something, but also too, could I have recused myself? You could have. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Or or it might be the other way. One of the commissioners may say, "That's interesting. I want to know more about that."

And you know, solicit, you know, staff, we want we want more on that. Or or did you receive anything from this person legally? Did it come in through the office so that we can see it? You know, you never know what's going to happen. But like like Seth said, you you want this out. You want this in the open. That's what this is all about.

And and so we ask you to disclose those. Um you know what, you know, Sullivan's good about when Tonogus comes up, say, "Hey, I I'm out on this one." Um it you could get an an application from by a family friend or family member or neighbor and you say, "Hey, you know, I'm too close to this." You want to disclose things to We don't want to go through all the work you do here and then have someone challenge it in court by something that was so easily disclosed and we could have handled it right here for So that applicant talks to me on a regular basis because I'm on the board. Yeah. Well, yes. Yeah. So that's unique situation. You you definitely want to be out of those. Yeah.

In hindsight, when when we had the the cover bridge access rail, I probably should recuse myself. I don't think I did. Um like the people wanted access to you guys wanted to change the language so that any railroad crossing people could get access. So up coverage, we have somebody bought a bunch of property. That was a text amendment though, right? So that that was a text amendment, a legislative act. Okay. So yes, you could disclose that would I recuse I recuse myself because I live I don't know that I would I don't think she would need to. Right. That's what I'm saying.

Financial interest or gain she's going to get by it. She may be better qualified to address the issue than the rest of us because you live there and you can help us understand. I probably was. You know what I'm saying? So I'm not sure just because we know about something. I don't think we want to. I didn't know about it until they came. Right. But you know what I'm saying? But you know, but that's why if we make it known at the beginning of the meeting, hey, by the way, I have this knowledge, then if we if the commission feels like it would be better to uh not be part of that decision, then the commission could kind of deliberate. Would that have been a conversation that I would have before the meeting starts? If you have them with me, that would be wonderful. that's happened here

and that's great. Hey, this happened. Should I be sitting on this? We email it, text, phone call just before the meeting. Yeah. Wait till midnight though. You heard him say he's available. I am available. Open your night out. You know, I I just think it's important that we're all making decisions based on the same information.

Yeah. In other words, if you're talking to someone and you have information none of us have, then you're you're voting a certain way and we can't even vote. We don't even understand why you're voting that way because we don't have your information. We want to all have all the information we each other have. And the way you do that is by saying present the information here at this meeting. Because if you talk to me privately for an hour at Chuckaraman and show me all these maps and stuff, now I'm making decision based on something that the rest of us have not heard. Yeah. Does that make sense? So I I just we just want to hear it here. Yes. And more importantly, we've moved to get it to us in advance. Let the commissioners have some time to digest this, understand it. Yeah. Um,

any other questions on that? XRK, legislative, administrative decisions. That those are the big ones. You know, we we go over conditional use approval law almost every time we do one, which is fine. Um, it's good for the public to hear that, too, if there is any.

Good point. Um, you know, you guys don't necessarily do it enough. In fact, county commissioners don't do it enough. Um, if you can see what may be bothering people, it's okay to ask us a question, you know, the answer, but if you want us to present it, to tee it up, to kind of provide that background, there's nothing wrong with doing that. In fact, I the commissioners that do it well, it it works amazingly to What's an example of that? What do you mean?

Um, for instance, uh, well, county commissioners, I'll use them as an example because they do it the most. They like someone in staff to set up what their decision is, what they can and can't consider because it it it helps them say no in cases where they have to say no. Um an example um isn't Snowbird an example last year when we were talking about Snowbird because they were only asking for an extension. They weren't asking to rehash the whole debate and even though we had a lot of people here very good I I kind of said that like there's only so much we can do.

Yeah. We're where this the only decision that we had to make was whether to extend it or not. Yes. And it seems like one of the staff actually said that. But there would be nothing wrong with you saying now could could you please explain to us again what is in front of us tonight which is only an extension. It's not a rehearing on the conditional use approval. Yeah, that's a very good example. And even though you know that, you know, the public doesn't, they they're just never all always going to understand that. And there's nothing wrong with having that discussion, making it look like we're, you know, working something out even though we know what's going on

to get that out to them so they understand. Yeah, that was that was the one that readily came to my mind just because that's that's what I felt like I had to do was ask that question kind of in a couple of different ways so the public could see that I have no love for that particular use there but that's our only only the extension is in front of you. Yeah. Yep. Yes. For example, sometimes a citizen may come and and start making an argument that is not something we can consider. Yes.

For example, that's a terrible business idea. They're going to fail and you you should deny it because you're going to fail. What I would want to do is say, can we consider that when we talk about this issue or is that something that's their call? All we can consider is this. Then let you explain it to everybody. Absolutely. Then we'll go, okay. Okay. And then that way the citizen knows, oh, okay. So, they really can't consider whether it's a good business idea because it's not a land use issue or something.

Roads in agricultural protection areas. Um, it seems like it comes up every single time and no one ever gets it right. Um, we had a gentleman stand up in there's three meetings on an APA and I can't remember which one had occurred to him, but he stood up and he says, "You can't close the road. An APA doesn't close roads, doesn't open roads. It either excludes them or includes them. But he had come he had come to the meeting believing that the APA would close the road in front of his house so he couldn't use it. And so it was important for the commissioner to say, "Well, this has got nothing to do with closing a road. Isn't that" and look at staff and say, "Isn't that correct? Can you explain the road this road situation?" Someone stood up said this is just about inclusion or exclusion from the APA protection, not the road itself.

Yeah, those those kind of things just like the uh solar farms all over there. I I have personal opinions about whether that's a good thing or not, but what we can do about it is what we can do about it. And when you're in that tough situation, ask for staff to step up. You know, we'll we'll lay it up, tee it up for you, and here here's what's going on. Here's what you can and can't do. Nothing. No problem doing that. Anything else that has come up recently? You probably had enough.

You know, I'll just say I think we're really fortunate to have such a good staff. Some of these small towns have a fourth a person once once a month and they're making the same decisions and we're so fortunate to have an attorney, you know, multiple land use people, you know, good people are taking good records. It's just nice to it makes our job much safer and better when we have such a great We're lucky to be fortunate to be in a in a large community where we have those protections. That's all. Yes. This is wellrun. Yeah. So, Sheriff, if you're okay, that's that's all I've got tonight. Okay. Unless you have one.

Thank you, staff. Um, I don't think we need to make any public comment. So, well, put on the record, there is no one here. There there's no one here to make a public comment. So, we're going to move past that. And, uh, do we need a motion to adjourn? You do not. You can simply We are adjourned.