Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

We've got two minutes is what I'm seeing. AAA, yeah, she hit a, apparently.

This May 27, 2026 meeting of the Union Township Zoning Commission is hereby called to order. Please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you. Please be seated. First order of business, can we have a roll call, please?

Yes, sir. Mr. Campbell?

Yes.

Mr. Lewis? Mr. Toft? Here. Mr. Wing? Here. Mr. Beckman? Yes. Mr. Onerhoff?

Here. We have quorum. Thank you. Next order of business is the approval of the minutes. Do I hear a motion to approve the March 25th, 2026 minutes?

I'll make a motion. Second.

I have a regularly made and seconded motion that we approve the minutes of the March 25th, 2026 Zoning Commission meeting. Any discussion? No discussion.

If you'd call roll. Mr. Wing? Yes. Mr. Toth? Yes. Mr. Onderlaw? Yes. Mr. Beckman? Yes. And Mr. Campbell? Yes. Motion carried.

Minutes are approved. For those wishing to speak tonight, just as a reminder, if you'd please fill out a sign-in sheet at the back of the room. And when you come up at the appropriate time, if you'd just bring those to me. We need that information for the record. Do we have any old business come before the commission?

No, sir. I just would like to point out that, uh, you obviously, Mr. Woodruff is filming for us. He's our planner. Uh, you see that, uh, we have Craig back. Craig, uh, came back after spending a couple of years, a few years in, uh, at, uh, Butler county and a planning supervisor position. And, uh, he's just stepping into Mark's shoes and, uh, you know,

we're gonna i think he's hit the ground running in the last week and uh already doing good things tonight he's gonna call the roll and uh you'll see more and more of him moving forward i appreciate it mr wright craig welcome back thanks good to have you back and uh we'll try to take it easy on you a little and that does answer my question to whom questions should be addressed and who was handling the staff report so i appreciate it So prior to the hearing of the case this evening, I want to provide a brief overview about the process. When the case is called, we will hear from the applicant or their representative first. The Commission reserves the right to question the applicant at any time. After the applicant's presentation, we will open the floor to anyone else who wishes to speak in support of the proposal. Then we will open the floor to those wishing to speak against the proposal. Those wishing to speak must fill out and provide us with a speaker registration form. All speakers must speak at the podium and into the microphone for recording purposes. Each speaker must identify themselves for the record. The Commission reserves the right to ask questions of persons speaking against the proposal. The expectation is for all speakers and observers to maintain the professional decorum of this meeting at all times. We understand that individuals are often passionate regarding their positions and preferences. However, this meeting cannot function properly if it becomes unruly. We ask that all speakers be conscious of the time and that speakers be concise and avoid making repetitive statements. Once those in opposition to the proposal have spoken, the case will be closed for public comment. Discussion at that time is limited to the Commission, although the Commission may ask questions of zoning staff, the applicant, or those in opposition. After discussion, I will call for a motion from the Commission. This motion requires a second, after which the motion itself is opened to discussion. A vote will be called and action taken on the motion. When a motion receives a majority vote, the Commission issues its recommendation to the Board of Trustees in accordance with the wording of the motion. Our options are to recommend approval of the requested change with some recommended modifications or denial of the requested change. The purpose of this motion is to make a recommendation to the Board of Trustees regarding the case. The authority to grant an applicant's zoning request or to deny an applicant's zoning request rests with the Board of Trustees. Okay. That brings us to our only case. this evening, which is case number 3-17-Z, Applicant Nico G. Investments, LLC, which is requesting that 10 parcels totaling approximately 7.06 acres be rezoned from PD plan development and R1 single-family residential detached structure to PD plan development to accommodate a mixed-use retail and multifamily development. Do we have a zoning staff report.

Sure. And I am happy to introduce that to the commission. So in this particular case, this involves And the reason the case number is 317Z is there was a prior zoning case on this parcel, which involves six of the 10 parcels. And the thought is, for administrative purposes, tracking it and all that, keeping everything together. So that explains that. So anyway, this particular application re-zones basically reaffirms and approves a new development plan for six of the ten uh a new pd plan and then adds in some additional properties r1 uh properties that were acquired you know through the traffic improvements uh on icolts in that uh generally located at the we call it roundabout number two which is the police department roundabout kind of in that segment there. And it is about eight acres, I believe, or seven acres in size in total. So the parcels are located in the in the Ivy Point Commerce Park area of the kind of the Ivy Point I Colts Commerce Park mixed use area in the comprehensive plan kind of extends through from, you know, the Civic Center. You can kind of see the Civic Center there. You have the East Gate Corridor, which is the gray area that's Wal-Mart to just to the north of the project. And then you have the trilogy senior complex to the immediate east there. With that, the comprehensive plan talks about mixes of use, particularly mixed use developments, blending commercial and residential areas, mixed commercial and residential densities with walkability in mind shall be encouraged. Talks about target minimum gross densities of 12 units per acre. Talks about design strategies emphasizing sense of place and pedestrian accessibility. Again, monument signage, things like that. Entertainment uses, small-scale retail, restaurant, lodging, convention uses also encouraged. Parking toward the rear of the structures, buildings oriented to the street, and structured parking, if feasible, encouraged. Maximum parking thresholds should be negotiated to prevent inefficient land uses. So looking at this, you know, this plan is basically it's a mixed residential and commercial project. You can see there's two separate retail retail entertainment type uses. Those have not been defined yet. In that, we do have a multifamily development to the, I have to get oriented here, this is kind of northeast, northeast, southwest, kind of west there. And I wish that we had included a picture of the prior plan. So by way of background, this particular property, the bulk of it, was subject to a zone change for, I believe it was 75, 77 or 80 apartments, six to seven years ago. It was a senior facility. It was gonna be, I believe, rent controlled, very similar to the Summerside Woods project with the geriatric center included. I'm not sure what that is, but it was basically kind of a gathering place and some other services would be driven that to that the additional parcels being rezoned there is a back portion uh you see where sort of the northern portion of the uh apartment building it's basically been rotated 90 degrees if you go back and you kind of think about the original plan the original plan was along glen esty because at that time what you see constructed icold's road did not exist behind walmart that's since been relocated and everybody remembers the old icold's glen esty intersection and all of that so so basically the plan has been flipped 90 degrees with the additional inclusion of commercial retail space in that looking at this uh you know from a from a bulk and area standpoint The building footprint of the proposed multifamily is around 30,000 square feet. Total floor area around 118,000 square feet, 120 units. Again, basically it's one additional floor. It might be slightly larger. If we were to overlay the two, it might be slightly different. But again, same bulk and mass, one additional story. And then you have 8,400 square feet and 9,800 square feet of commercial pads. These are single-story structures. We call this horizontally integrated use. It's not, you know, a traditional pedestal style, concrete shell with stuff over top of it, but it would be architecturally integrated in that. So you can kind of see the retail elevations. Again, these are multi-tenant buildings. Structures of these size are going to see spaces as small as probably 1,200 to 1,500 square feet, or they could be very large. You know, you could have one tenant take half or whole of one of these structures. You do also have the institutional use with the police department and the quasi-institutional use directly across the street with that. There is some green space, plaza areas and streetscaping fostering conformance with the Horizon 2030 plan. There is a little bit of staff discussion. I won't belabor the point too much about potentially shifting some of the parking and allocations of the site to promote more of that streetscape appearance in that. It's also in the Glen Esty-Withamsville I-COLTS Roads Revitalization and Improvement Plan. We talked about that in a previous case, talking about removing blight and recurrence of blight, encouraging appropriate mixes of uses, development of new housing and new retail opportunities to prevent stagnation, development standards to guide development of new structures, and all of those things. driven toward increasing overall investment in the area. And again, an analysis of the plan indicates that it is generally conform conforming with those sort of platitudes in that subject to, you know, design modifications potentially. The PD district regulations have been provided for the board's review. Again, these are these are these are standards that can be varied by the commission recommended by the commission, ultimately approved by the Board of Trustees. And again, just to hit on the background, six of the ten parcels are already zoned PD. It was approved for about 82,000 square feet, 77 units, and a single-story geriatric center. Again, we're talking about a little bit of an enlargement, kind of a modification of the site plan that sort of reflects the revised roadway configuration with a new access point along the newly improved Eichholz and Glanasty corridors. Looking at this, it does result in mixed use in compliance with the plan. It does add the residential component with the retail and restaurant opportunities here. Again, these are gonna be lower intensity uses. These are not large grocery stores or things like that because this is kind of an emerging sort of transitional corridor in that. uh there there are some plan requirements that they have to meet you know they have to provide us with some updated open space calculations consolidate dumpster enclosures get them away from the street frontage areas curb gutter sidewalks facilitate pedestrian access throughout the site high quality building materials brick stone masonry complementary materials you know a lot of this is more like a detailed site level review that you would probably see more at like a permitting phase so a lot of the comments are are driven toward that signage locations have yet to be determined again with multiple street frontages multiple entrances you would expect you know at least two you know multi-tenant signs here uh probably one kind of in that boulevard area and then one along icold's road in that um You know, there probably should be some discussion about buffering, you know, particularly along the former high cold spur. What does that look like? Again, we're at a concept level phase. There's specific items that, you know, the commission would like to see or you know the response of the public comment but i think those are all ripe for consideration and discussion and you can also see site has a couple of different detention areas on it you've kind of got an area to the to the west there that kind of takes water from veterans park there is an existing stream uh that you know will have to be subject to regulatory review and then a proposed detention structure uh along the frontage of kind of reconstructed michael's room So with that, there are 13 recommended modifications for the board. Some of them are fairly technical recommendations. The board's action is to recommend approval as submitted approval with additional modifications or denial of this particular request. And that concludes the report. Thank you, Mr. Wright. Is the applicant or their representative present?

i don't see them in the audience i'm not sure if they're stuck in traffic or they've got the you know it was a mess out there i was out there earlier today okay so that's a little unorthodox but uh we can't hold the meeting for that so at this point i will open the floor for those who wish to speak uh for or against this proposal for anyone wishing to speak if you would please come to the podium bring me your sign-in sheet And we can go from there. And if the applicant arrives, then we'll allocate time for them to speak, because I'm sure there are questions. You can ask questions. We will try to address them.

I just want to ask some questions.

Could you please state your name and your address, please? Thank you.

My name is Dawn Phil. I live at 781 Deer Valley Drive. A couple of questions. I had noticed the trees in the picture. Are they able to build without clear-cutting the trees?

That is an excellent question for the applicant based on my review of the plan. I would say most of those trees are probably going to be removed.

Based on a review of the plan. A lot of that vegetation will be. Yeah.

That's one detriment because that's so important to the community. Is there a reason that land has to be developed?

i don't know that there's a reason why any particular piece of property has to be developed but part of our comprehensive land use plan that's set out for this committee that really binds this commission in terms of these kind of recommendations says, Hey, if you're in a particular area, this is what has been determined to be the best appropriate for the corridor.

Okay. That I understand. Do we know what the 120 units, because we don't know what single double or triple bedrooms, the capacity of the units.

um so in my experience you know something like this is probably most of these guys are going to build two bedrooms there's probably going to be some one bedrooms in there a product like this is probably going to it's either a two bedroom plus a den or a one bedroom plus a den you know if i look at this project it looks a lot like the echelon project which is a mix of i think Uh, they had a few threes, very, very few. They were kind of the corners where they had extra space. Most of them were twos and then they had some ones in there.

Okay.

And again, that's, this is about, let's see echelons tower. It's about 185, maybe 190 units. So this is 120. So it's probably about a third smaller than that.

Is there a reason it has to be apartments?

Again, the comprehensive land use plan for this particular corridor pushes towards mixed use and multifamily development.

That's a zoning request change, correct?

It is. As Mr. Wright alluded to, the bulk of the parcels in question are already zoned plan development and they were zoned that way for for essentially multifamily uses. If I looked at the report, it was, yeah, the original case came about in 2017. I was looking for the numbers in the staff report.

It was 77 units, about 82,000 square feet of structure, plus an additional geriatric center. My understanding was it was a company out of, Cleveland, I think, that was looking at it, and they were pursuing LIHTC. uh, credits, uh, very similar to, uh, project project. They actually built a similar project in, um, what we would call when I worked at the city of Loveland, East Loveland, just past where the old marathon and the railroad tracks work. I think that was the same company. It was PI is Pearl, but I forget if the H came before, before or after. Yeah. But anyway, I mean that you get where that is.

So is the developer providing any support to the community? in terms of funds to assist with the road changes or utility changes, funds to support the school, or funds to support fire and EMS employees?

So I'm happy to answer that question, ma'am. So this project site is part of a tax increment financing district. That makes the schools whole. The schools will receive full revenue no matter what happens here. If a project moves forward with this specific tax increment financing district, the bulk of our tax increment financing districts make the schools in the joint vocational district whole project. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I was just going to I don't mean to cut you off a project to this size may also given my experience with the county engineer's office likely require a traffic impact study they've been requiring for for single retail. projects, the projects at the corner of Klepper and Gwinnesti that actually required a traffic impact study. So I think that they'll take a look at this, too, most likely. Yeah. You know, since they're both county roadways and they're going to be fairly protective of those things.

Well, one of my actual concerns pertaining to the traffic is that we haven't built yet the Briar Hill development. If I remember correctly, won't that also have a hotel in it?

Yes, but it also have a shared access point with the project that's under construction at the corner of Klepper and, and they've actually been coordinating that through. They actually had to do a TIS as they partnered with Bonnell Hill on the five acres and they've kind of managed the access points in that to align that.

Do we know what that hotels don't have?

We have, they have inspected.

My concern is building something like this without seeing the effects of the Briar Hill development, which I believe is exceptionally dense. And that's a big concern for myself. I'm sure people in the area who are already so frustrated with the traffic. My other question, and I try not to be longer because these people need to speak. My other question is, will these departments be in any way involved in low-income housing funding?

No. They've not ever mentioned it. My understanding is these are market or market plus.

Do we know what the rental rates might be?

I mean, I know what the rents right across the street are. You know, Gentry, I think they're in the buck 50 to buck 60 range of square foot.

Easily, yeah.

And Echelon's a little bit higher. So I would say that's probably on par with... Is there a target market for this apartment? I don't know what, I don't understand the question.

Well, I think, if I may, I think the question is in terms of demographics, if they're targeting a specific clientele.

I don't think they've really identified that it's going to be 55 and up or young professionals. I can tell you, here's a funny story. I remember talking to the guys with PLK, and I think one of their first tenants was a woman in her 80s. that rented a three bedroom and was like, I love it. I don't have to do, you know, but then there's like 25 year olds that moved in. Right. Right. So I'd say it's really a mixed bag in that from all walks of life.

Okay. And can it be something different than apartments?

Well, it's the plan that's presently before us. If the question is can they change it from something that isn't multifamily without a plan change, then the answer to that question is no. If it's approved for what it is and they decide they want to put in, let's say, a grocery store on that and make a four-story grocery store, they can't change the fundamental usage.

of all the buildings under the same umbrella financing.

It's the same application. I'm not sure of their financing. Yeah.

From what I know is that the applicant There's really two kind of groups involved. You have Anderson, which is more retail specialists, right? And then the primary applicant, which is more of the residential one. My suspicion is it's probably a JV, you know, a joint venture with that to manage that and all that. So that's I think the bulk of the conversations I've had. on the application materials have been with the guys from the Anderson. So those guys are, you know, they did the rope with towers and all that.

Okay. So my final comment, uh, is I'm not comfortable with adding more apartments to the township. Um, generally with apartment life after about 10 years, Apartments start aging a township very, very much. You can drive around now and see apartments done in the 70s. You can see apartments done in the 80s. Even the luxury apartments, which I luckily actually lived in one one time by chance, and it was directly across from the police station. They still have a lot of common problems, most of it being theft. Even the high level ones, most of it being theft. Garbage is always an issue. Traffic is always an issue. Based on my experience with apartments in a lot of different cities and suburbs, for this particular community, which is very much a family oriented community, I I'm not in support of apartments. I'm supportive multifamily housing where the owners have an ownership interest in the property, not a transient interest in the property. And I'll, I'll give you just one example. One of the things that is used a lot out east instead of apartments, or townhouses or condos are the, and I can't think of the right word, the flats. Okay. Which will look similar to an apartment, but they're individually owned over.

I mean, overextended, um, are they going to add to the force to deal with the crime that's going on here? and i know that's not really a zoning question but building and building and building and particularly multi-family complexes you're going to get some you're going to have issues you got too many people crammed in too small of a space and um when i found out i just found out two weeks ago what was happening at the end of london lane i was like somebody told me i was like you're crazy there's that will fit there so disappointing and you know and again people's packed in a small space there's going to be problems and i guess i just want to know what the township sees in the future for fighting those kind of issues I mean, just this app I have, I probably should get rid of it. It's just constantly going off. And I don't know how the police department is dealing with it, quite honestly.

So last night was a trustee work session. And it's on YouTube. And you can watch it. And you should watch it. Everybody should watch it. And it's talking about safety services and how they're funded and what happens with all of this stuff. our police and fire right now we're in really good shape we're not flush but in terms of personnel and response times and everything we're right at the top um i i actually was one of the leaders of the fire department back in the 80s here and i understand a little bit more about all of the issues they have when it comes to things like this so This is all taken into consideration, the police, the fire, everybody, that all gets taken into consideration. I'm also one of the first graduating classes of Claremont. I lived in Anderson.

We know each other then.

Maybe. I've been out here since 1982, so I've seen a lot of change as well. I agree with what everybody says about density, population, and all that, but I also, if you watch what was presented last night, you'll understand a little bit more about why development is important right now. Because it's a deep dive to understand finance for a township. There's a lot of things that when I first started, I've been coming to these meetings since 2014. And I was against a lot of things because I didn't know. but by spending a lot of time and it's not a little, it's a lot of time researching and I've attended 95% of the meetings that the trustees have had since 2014. No reason other than I just want to know and I want them to know somebody's watching. That's why I'm on the zoning board as well. So that being said, the, the public services for what we're looking at here is minimal. Now what's happened at Glen, I see high school. I think a lot of people were taken by surprise in some instances, but again, they're getting a handle on it. I live on Rumpke road. There's 35 houses back where I live. We have sirens back there all the time because we have an elderly pop population now. And, uh, I think that because the township is more towards the elder side, sirens are going to become more and more constant. It's just part of living and dying. Um, but anyway, so I understand the frustrations and the quest, you know, and, and I, again, I agree. I, I'm not a big fan of multifamily. I think we're dense enough, but you also have to understand development for the township is important in order to keep what we have. this, the money doesn't come from anybody except us. So, uh, these guys, you know, when I talk to Corey and the administration, they do a really good job as stewards of what we have and where we're going and things do change regularly. I sit through a ton of meetings. I don't get anything out of it other than, you know, heartache, stress and knowledge. Um, but it, I have a much more open view of what happens now and why things happen. I'm not for typically for more multifamily, but like in this particular case, this has already been zoned for the multifamily on six of the 10 properties. And when you look at the properties that are currently R1, only one of them abuts any other residential. And that would be that the one, Yeah. So this is a case of that could have been in, well, they approved it in 2017. That could have been built by 2019, which I think would have been before you moved in. So these are the kind of things that the information is all here, but you have to pay attention. And so, you know, and I, you know, I've, I've got a long history with this township in terms of dealing with some issues and I'll talk to people privately about that. Uh, not that I can give you any information that isn't readily available, but you know, there, there are things that have happened in the past that maybe shouldn't have in terms of direction. But the other thing everybody has to remember is population is growing exponentially. growth is going to happen. I was out here in 82 when we didn't have a lot of apartments. That's why I came out here, though, because Anderson didn't have our land. And as a young married couple, I needed someplace to go. That's still happening. now people who came here, let's say in the late seventies, early eighties, a lot of them are going out to Brown County now because again, it's what they looked for when they came here. But you know, it's just progress if you want to call it that, but it's, it's what we're going to see until we stop having lots more people. Uh, there has to be a place for people to go. And the other, the one other thing I would say about this is the property owners they do have a right to do what they want with their property within reason. And so this one for us might be a little different because we've turned down a number of, of multifamilies, but it's because the I's and the T's are not dotted and crossed properly because we have to follow the letter of these regulations. We're not allowed to use bias or opinion. The trust that's where the trustees come in. So, We've been called some bad names recently because we've approved things that by law we have to. So what I'm trying to get across is the big picture is being looked at. And we understand the desire for people to want no change. But change is there. It's imminent. Change is imminent. I, you know, I was ready to move from my property, but things worked out for us and I don't have to. Um, and that's, you know, and if it had, then I wouldn't be sitting here. Um, so anyway, um, I hope that, you know, this one is, you know, like I said, it's a little different because this has already been zoned for the majority of what this is. And, uh, I would love to see those be condos as opposed to rentals, but that's not something we have any direction in.

Thank you, Mr. Wing. Ma'am?

I appreciate all the information that you just provided. What is your last name? Wing, W-I-N-G. Did you go to Anderson High School?

I went to McNich, but I was at Anderson a lot. I grew up in some of the states.

Okay, yeah. All right, well, thank you very much, gentlemen. I appreciate it. This is my first meeting, and I'm going to get more involved. Please come back. Because retirement's right around the corner.

So thank you. Congratulations on that.

Thank you.

Sir, you're next up if you want. Thank you.

Um, I really don't have any rants. My name is Ron Davis. I live at 4315 high Colts road, right down. At the end there, my wife actually pointed it out. I guess this was approved in 2017, this apartment complex.

It was a different complex.

It was a... Senior LIHTC section 42 might have been, I think it was rent controlled. It's very similar to Summerside Woods. I remember a presentation by senior services talking about... They had something like a waiting list, like a couple of years at the time for that.

Okay. So this is go up more or less.

That's very complex. And that has to do with House Bill 920 that was done back in the late 70s to prevent runaway inflation on. So levies over time are reduced. Right. So, for example, in 2020, the township passed a two mil police levy and a two mil fire levy. We had basically a total of four mills passed. Those levies have been reduced, the millage amount, from the original two mills down to I think it's like 1.2 mills each because of additional property appreciation. So if you really think about it, the more development that occurs, the less your incremental share of a levy that's subject to reduction becomes. Does that make sense?

It kind of does.

That's the easiest way I can explain it. I mean, I'm getting into like, sometimes I feel like it's complex calculus trying to look through it all and all that.

In a nutshell, what does the mill mean?

A mill is a unit of value. And basically, if you really think about it, I'm trying to think of my projections here, the easiest way to explain it. So in Union Township, one mill generates $35 per year for a $100,000 property. Does that make sense?

It does.

That's the easiest way to explain it. Okay. And we showed that last night, and that's why I tell everybody, go watch that safety services presentation. Yeah, it was a very good presentation. We put the spreadsheets up. We showed potential millage calculations. based on information that we have from the county, and we walk through all of that so people can see that. So the answer I would ask is, so I remember when houses were acquired for the I-COLTS project on Larma and Webold, and those houses I think were bought in the $100,000 range, and I think houses are selling well over $300,000. So the answer is property values are appreciated. I don't have a better answer than that. I actually saw houses listed on Sipsy Klein for everybody knows about the short term rental issue that we dealt with over there that, you know, was sort of not the townships doing, but we're fixing it. Those houses are listed. One of them is almost 500 and one of them is mid four fifties in Lexington Green.

And this is on Webull.

Well, Webull, I'm seeing houses in the three fifties.

Okay.

and Lexington Green right around this way, I guess, this way. Okay. Those houses are in the 450s now.

Okay.

All right. So the answer is property values in this area are appreciating. Yes.

Okay. Well, speaking of that, it was passed the last time we were here was last month. And, uh, uh, it was passed that I believe was 15 single family homes. We're going to be brought in somewhere around the 400, $500,000 value. Now having something like that passed, will that help raise the property value around here or on existing homes?

Well, I mean, I, I, again, existing homes are a complex calculation. because they send an appraiser out, and they look at things, and they look at improvements. They look at structured grades. They look at like and similar. They don't chase sales. I've learned they don't chase sales. So they don't necessarily, some counties do. I know Hamilton County does. Uh, only because I was a recipient of a revaluation notice when I bought my first home to my surprise. Um, but, uh, they don't necessarily chase sales. They kind of look at a market, uh, it's, uh, a neighborhood with a small end, you know, like the neighborhood, not the neighborhood, not the big neighborhood.

It's, it's, I live in a very small one. Yeah.

Yeah. It's, it's like the small, they look at the, they try to do everything to, to try to even that out to get the truest picture of an assessed value and all that. I have no idea without looking at the tax information what your house is appraised at by the county now. I do know that to my knowledge, I mean, you're going to see $400,000 to $500,000 houses down the street. They may be dissimilar construction. You do have more land probably. So there's a multitude of factors that play into that.

Okay. All right. Okay.

Well, thank you for answering that. That's my best non-county auditor answer.

You did great. No, I understand what you were saying. Can you guys tell me when the construction is going to be starting on this apartment complex?

To be determined.

To be determined. We don't get any timeline on these. because this is like the first step. And like the thing that got passed in 2017, it never got constructed. Now there are new regulations in place that they cannot

extend forever right okay and we we changed that last year i believe yep yeah we we passed a resolution regarding that particular issue so we wouldn't have constant extensions and projects that went nowhere well then we had the overlays right overlays are a very unique plan approval you see those a lot on 125 and in areas where

the developments older and it doesn't fit the new code, we would get people that would come in for overlays and they would sit for five years and are not doing anything. And people say, what's happening? What's happening? Well, we put a clock on them now. So, OK, so that's good, right? So so there's some certainty in that that it has to. So with the PD, if I remember correctly, it's they have five. Was it five years to start substantial active construction now? I believe something like that. It's in. It's in the 680 section. I could be off of that. Mr. Wayne has a 680 section? It's in the 680, I want to say like 684 or 685 maybe. Talks about timelines for PDs. They have to have.

Let the old dyslexic look here and see if you can find it.

Let's see, there's 684 or 685. Substantial act of construction. Expiration, 685.

Yeah, five years of the date of the Board of Trustees approval, it will expire if they've not done anything.

Yes, so they have to do something or the plan expires and then it has to go back through the restart as though they weren't here. The district doesn't change. So the map doesn't change.

Right.

But then they have to come back to the zoning commission, back to the trustees, start all over, start all over five years.

Well, I remember I've been around this area for, well, since late sixties and, uh, I graduated from Glen Esty. Uh, I watched Jamestown going up and it sat there like a ghost town for years, because I guess the developer went bankrupt or whatever the financial situation was. So that can't happen these days, is that correct? Is that what you're saying by this five-year ceiling? Am I reading this right?

Substantial act of construction. Right.

It takes a substantial act of construction to be initiated within that five-year period. So could the developer go broke and not take any action for five years? They could, but then a subsequent developer or that developer gets more money and comes back, they'd have to restart the whole process if that five years expires. And before we didn't really have a... Clock. We didn't have a clock in that way. So this is an inducement to for a responsible developer to actually take action once they've gone through this process.

Okay. Well, okay. I have one or two other questions. Number one, how is that when all this developing is going on? How is that going to affect us down there at the bottom end? I coach road. Now we just went through the road. They put the new pipeline in everything. And I had trucks day in and day out. I ride a motorcycle and it was hell getting out of my driveway on that road to get up there. I mean horrible. So how is this going to affect our family and the rest of the folks that live around there?

And that's a good question, and I would anticipate, well, Minister Rankin.

I can tell you that, you know, in my experience, my suspicion will be that they'll route construction traffic off of Glen Esty and Eicholz. They won't come off Eicholz Spur if I have anything to say about it. No.

Okay, so you don't think we'll see much then? I know.

Yeah, you may see some utility work because, remember, the old road went through there and there's a big – kind of fat telecom bundle that runs down this side of the road. I'm pointing to this, my right side, if I'm looking back this way. So on the project side, there's multiple, this is one of the only places I've ever seen where we have poles on both sides of the road usually they're they're co-located on a single side here we have because since a bell owns their own poles spectrum tends to co-locate with so there is a big telecom fiber bundle that sort of follows the old roadway alignment they may they may move that or underground that or co-locate that but there's zero chance i'm gonna let them run construction traffic off i colts road

Well, I know if you look up for my property, uh, you can see all kinds of wires going. So I'm going to the substation over here off, uh, uh, Clough Pike. And I mean, so it's, uh, there's a lot of utilities to go through. There's a lot of utilities. Yes, sir. There is. Um, um, the other thing I wanted to ask, let me see, uh, is there any way of going back to what you were saying about, uh, that there was going to be a, uh, an assisted living or whatever that was proposed to begin with, um, where you're building this complex at, um, when did they decide that they were going to go with a four story? Uh, I can't help it guys, but what's, what is being built over there at the high school is just way too much. And putting something like that in down there at the end of our road seems like it's going to be way too much. How do you talk to folks about altering that? Maybe just drop it a floor instead of going up four stories and making a tower over all the trees. Go ahead. You seem like you...

I was going to say, Mr. Wright, do you... Because this is a different developer than the initial developer.

It is a different developer. And so what I'm trying to remember, and this was a long, long time ago... If I think about the East Loveland project, which was built by the same developer, it actually had sort of a more traditional single family roof type, which is in fact taller. This structure appears to be with, it's got parapet walls, so it's going to be a flat roof structure. So when you really think about height, if you have something that has more of a residential roof to it, so most people don't realize this, a single family residential home in Union Township can be 35 feet tall.

Okay.

35 feet tall. And the way we measure height is you take the wall height plus one half of the gable.

Okay.

So it's actually taller than 35 feet. So a single family home can be very tall. The thing with a flat roof structure is you're going to see floor heights probably. I'm guessing 12. to 13 feet to fit all the mechanicals in on a commercial, on a commercial build based on my walk. I walked through echelon when they were building it just to see it. So I think the deck heights are probably, they're probably 12 feet. So you're going to see a structure that probably nets out. If somebody were to build a three story with a peaked roof on it, right. Versus a four story with a flat roof. If you stand, if you stand 150 yards away from it, you might be able to tell they're this they're, you know, that they're different heights, but the net difference when you're closer to it is going to be about the same.

Okay.

I don't know if that makes sense or not.

No, it does. No, I've built homes. Uh, so, uh, I understand what you're saying. Um, so basically you're thinking that because it is a flat roof, that you can get by with another floor, which would basically be the same as a two-story or three-story house with a gabled roof on it. With a peaked roof on it. Yeah.

It's going to be very similar in height. Very similar in height.

OK. All right. OK. Let me see. If I got anything else, and I'll let you guys go. I know I'm taking up more time than I should be. Is it up to the salesperson or the people that are selling the house to give the new buyer some education on what might be happening in their area projected? Is there anything along that line, or are they just like normal salesmen, say, here you go, I'm selling it to you?

That's outside the purview of this commission. So you would need to talk to a realtor and speak about their code of ethics. That's really beyond the scope of what we would do here. And it's actually a legal question as well regarding is there a potential cause of action because there was fraud in the inducement of you purchasing a piece of property. I can't answer that question, so you'd have to speak. You could consult with an attorney or you could ask a real estate agent, but that's really beyond this.

Okay, well then, living in that area right there with this in our face, do you guys or does Union Township, whoever might be the entity that takes care of this, Do they send any mail out to the particular folks that live in that area? Do you get a form that says, hey, this is going to be in your backyard? And if so, my wife right back here would probably say, yeah, Ron, they did send one out, and I just didn't see it. But at any rate, is that typical?

Yes. To send information out to the locals? Yeah, notice goes out for these public hearings, and then – we actually we can tell everyone now this case regardless of the action taken by this commission will be heard at the meeting of the union township trustees on what date june 9th so june 9th in this room will be six o'clock at six o'clock thank you because it's a different time than ours six o'clock on that date You can come to this room and this case will be heard before the union township trustees, much like you did tonight. You can ask questions. You can voice your concerns to the trustees because they're the ones who take final action on this. We just, we're, we're making it. Basically we're advising them as required in the, by the terms of the land use plan. We just issue our recommendations. So if you're, if you continue to be interested in this case, that's the meeting to show up to.

Okay. All right. Uh, one more question and I'll go away. If I have any problems or any discussions or anything like that, that, that during the construction of all this, is there a particular number that I can call?

I'll give it out. People watch the meeting. You can call seven, you can call 5 1 3 7 5 3 2 2 1 4. And that will reach my desk.

753-2214? Yep, that will go right to my desk. Mr. Wright, is that correct? Correct. All right, thank you. Gentlemen, thank you ever so much for listening to me rant up here. I appreciate your time.

Thank you. Would anyone else like to speak tonight? Sir?

My name is Chuck Raving. I live at 554 Brandner. Actually, I've got a technical question, I guess, and I think Corey Wright would probably be able to answer this better. It mentioned that the land was acquired through the CIC. I'm assuming that that was ODOT original purchase on some of that right-of-way?

No, actually, if I remember correctly, the CIC acquired the bulk of – Craig, put the gray –

Well, ODOT would have acquired all that right away for the new extension.

Actually, no. So the county TID advanced the Eichholz roundabout project.

Okay. So that's the County Transportation Improvement District.

Uh, the township actually purchased the bulk of these. And then because we get local match credit for that because of our contribution and we are members to the TID. So that was sort of a, there was a donation deal with that, with the TID to help that project ran extremely tight is what my understanding was.

Then what about the project that was east of there that just got approved that's along most of the Glen Estates?

Those were acquired as well as part of that right away. Was that Bogot property? No, those were township properties and then donated for the corridor.

Okay. I'm just trying to get a handle on that. So the economics of this, I guess, is something to be discussed in terms of how much did the did Township have to pay to acquire that land?

It was significant. And, you know, in that and because that acquisition helped offset the cost of that. I forget what the total number on that project was, but I want to say it was north of it. Was it like ten or twelve million dollars? And when they started planning it, it was six million.

Okay, but I guess...

So the township has resources tied up in this, yes.

We as a township have a financial commitment with that land acquisition. And, you know, you can't give that land away. And is it by law you have to at least, you know, show a zero...

Well, I don't know that there's actually, I mean, you know, at the end of the day, the Board of Trustees sets policy. But if they're asking me, should the township sit on land that we invested in for transportation improvements, if we have a proper and productive use to deploy that to recoup the public's investment, I'm going to advise to do that 11 out of 10 times to get the township's investment back and to repurpose it and turn it back into productive taxpaying property.

So there's a fund that you can continue. It's like you just sold that or will sell it to the developer, and then now you've got additional funding to kind of do the same thing again.

Do the same things or offset other projects or enhancements. Basically, that becomes... when that property is sold or if it's sold, if it successfully concludes, the CIC pushes that revenue back to the township and watch the safety services presentation because that's an integral part of the economic development portion that offsets the need to run additional levies. So, again, we have resources tied up in this for a project, right? And then, you know, to get the resources back out and create an earning stream moving forward, That is part of the model, and that was a strategic decision made 15 to 20 years ago.

So who then is like negotiates the sale price, the transfer of that land?

So, you know, ultimately it's the executive. Well, so everything goes through the CIC. It goes through the executive director. There's multiple parties that provide input to that.

Okay, all right.

So, you know, we're... They're looking at market rates. They're looking at commercial land rates. There's no giveaways.

Okay. Before I forget, to you earlier this evening, you had mentioned something about traffic counts. There are some cables up on Old 74, Eichholz, and Mount Connell, Tabasco. I just threw there. Those are the three I sent.

That's a good place to count them.

Yeah. I had talked to the county a while back. It's been a while. And they were telling me that the traffic counts on, say, Mount Carmel hadn't been done in 10 years. And so this may be new information for them.

Yes, they have not kept up on their counts, and they really should be more frequent. I can tell you that private developers are doing counts on Buck Buxton, and the traffic counts are growing every year. They're growing every year. This area, it's hard. They actually, when they did the traffic impact study, they had to do projected counts based on the, they basically looked at what the traffic was back when the intersection was there. and modeled that traffic based on that, because without the bridge, if you go over there right now, there's nobody, right? Because you can't get there from here. But they went back to the, you know, everybody remembers that it used to take three or four light cycles to get through to turn left to go south on Glen Esty. I jokingly remind myself, when I get frustrated with ODOT, that when I used to plan a trip down to the county auditor or go to the county planning department or whatever, I planned 45 minutes to an hour. I can get there in eight minutes now. And that's driving slow. And I can get back in eight to nine minutes if I can get out of the village. And I don't have to sit through three to five light cycles at ELEC and Glen Esty. So again, You know, some of those things, I know everybody is eagerly awaiting the 32 Bridge. For what it's worth, I saw them putting pavement down on the south side of the interstate the other day. So we are getting close. And I think it's paved on the north side now.

It's actually...

if you look south it's paved all the way as far as you can see now really so they were they're racing the rain right now but it's getting close and i i just heard mid-summer opening so that's that's progress we like that yes so when they did the modeling through this area again a lot of that's changed um uh they have to predict based on what the the north south traffic volumes were I think they should count them every couple years.

To finish this up, just in terms of comments of this project, I think it was mentioned that retail, there was a recommendation maybe to move it street side or close to the street side, which to me, I guess that's in response to what was just approved right around the corner, that they're going to have some retail stuff as I understood it was going to be sidewalk, pedestrian exposed to the street and parking in behind it. And so this is, I guess, kind of a response to that to try to reinforce that concept that's what the corridor is asking for is to kind of create that pedestrian walkable vibe it's a walkable village kind of i just personally i think that you know when you look at union township and i think a lot of people should realize that we're the fourth largest township in ohio population wise we're we're bigger than a lot of cities you know but to me having when i saw that there was it was like god this is something new and different and it's something that you know you can you know you know you know, it's something you can put, raise your hat on. It's like, it's, it's, it's not something that's, that's typical. And I, to me, it's like, this could be special for the township. They just have, you know, the, the, the density of that new project at the old Glen Esty site. You can have people walking up and down that street instead of everybody, you know, it's, it's becomes walkable to an extent. Some part of our township is walkable because right now there's no part of our township that's walkable.

Well, and that's in the comprehensive land use plan. A lot of people don't think about it, and I wouldn't think about it if I didn't sit here, how much sidewalks cost. And it would be great to put sidewalks in everywhere, but the only way we get sidewalks is if...

someone's going to pay to put them in because the township would go as a side note the other thing i thought about i know right now it's a new development it's required to put them in uh technically i know uh because i live off mont carmel and when they put in the dispensary there's like 100 feet of sidewalk there and then around the corner where they did uh that dog or the pet thing on on hold 74 there's another 100 foot chunk of sidewalk And I kept thinking, why don't, instead of that, maybe escrow that money somehow so that, you know, when you have an opportunity to put in 1,000 feet of sidewalk, you've got the money because people have already, you know, again, just an idea.

That's a great point. And so some of the projects, and I know specifically on Tabasco, do you remember the old family dollar that got turned into the really nice Trigon printing thing? Yeah. So when we do, I think when the Board of Trustees has done overlay approvals, which Mount Carmel, Tabasco is a place where you see a lot of overlays, what they'll do is, and I think Craig probably wrote some of these conditions back in his prior life here, is they'll require them to install them if a larger sidewalk project is advanced so that, you know, they get so many days' notice and it's like, hey, the township got a grant from ODOT to pursue, and we've actually been very successful in that, We've got a pending safety grant application on Summerside to fix some of that and to get the neighborhoods connected to the park. Imagine that. And then we are submitting a transportation alternatives grant to pick up where they shorted us right here at the Wal-Mart roundabout number three to get it all the way to I Colts Road or I Colts and Eastgate, you know, Eastgate or whatever, Eastgate Boulevard, Ivy Point. And so, you know, again, going after transportation grants to do that. But if we get those, we can go to those property owners where those are terms and conditions in the zoning file, and we can say, hey, you've got to pony up. You've got to give us the easements. You've got to pay your fair share. This is a term and condition of zoning. And that is a very frequent thing. And so if you can sort of chain a couple of those properties together, you can go advance a sidewalk project. So absolutely, I agree with you 150%.

OK, well, thanks.

Thank you, sir.

Would anyone else like to speak? If it's very brief, sir.

Okay, I have one question. If you could bring up the site map on that.

I was concerned, I was thinking about the commercial spaces, and I know it's not directly adjacent to the Veterans Park, but it's fairly close by. Well, when will there be any determination made of what will be in those commercial spaces? I don't know that I necessarily think someplace that's selling liquor, right across.

Most of the rest of it, it doesn't matter. I mean, for aesthetics it matters, but for the actual