Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

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e e e so this uh January 22nd 2025 meeting of the Union Township zoning commission is now called to order uh please join with us and giving the pledge of allegiance to the flag of our country pledge of Ali to the flag the United States of America to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy Justice for All thank you um the first order of business uh roll call of commission members Mr mman Mr Shannon yes Mr Wing yes Mr outrage yes Mr Lewis yes Mr Campbell yes everyone's here okay all

Commissioners are present next order of business is election of officers for the 2025 year floor is now open for the election of a chairman or chairperson I'll make a motion for Eric Le to be chairman in 2025 Mr Wing is moved that uh Mr Lewis served as chair for year 2025 is there a second I second second for Mr outrage uh Mr McCormack if you call Mr Shannon yeah Mr Wing yes Mr outrage yes Mr Lewis yes Mr Campbell yes passes motion passes Mr Le you're now chair of the G changes to you so now I'll solicit a motion for vice chair does anyone uh have a uh a motion for vice chair Mr chairman I move that Mr Wing uh serve as Vice chair chance second that motion Mr mccor could you call roll yes Mr Shannon yes Mr Wing yes Mr out yes Mr Lewis yes Mr Campbell yes motion passes thank you all right we've got a uh any old business I I would only like to mention on Old business Mr mccor I want to thank you and your staff for providing that information on the uh uh densities and on the uh single family multif family uh numbers and balances and I'm looking forward to us having a workshop sometime in the next couple months to to work through that data and understand it and get a feel for how we'd like to move forward as a as a commission yeah we would like to do that

depending on what our case load is it could be February um or it could be March or we could just try to schedule a separate session so we're going to wait and see whether we have a application or not we have until next Wednesday for the February submitt um and we may have one or two submittal so we're kind of waiting to see what comes in sounds great um we do have minutes yep yes minutes we need action on the minut that's right missed that do we uh have a motion to approve the minutes from the December 18th 2024 meeting I'll make that motion seconded we have a first and a second Mr Wings I Mr Wings did the second correct I did the motion oh you I'm sorry you're fine okay roll call Mr Shannon yes Mr Wing yes Mr outrage yes Mr Campbell yes and Mr Lewis yes motion passes I think you're going to be sign now the continuation of uh of old business also we have uh a workshop availability is that correct coming up and uh you're we're looking for members and I I would encourage anyone I've been to two of these workshops uh I think they're very beneficial yes that is is the training exercise email that I sent you um I had to look up the program because if you click on the program they don't have it all scheduled for the whole day but they have the perspective sessions I don't know that that's going to be all of the sessions um what I

recalled in going to that in the past is that that is a a program that lasts from like 8 to 4 roughly and that you have multiple sessions going on at the same time so you can kind of pick and choose um it's been a couple of years since I've I've gone to it but I always found it to be a pretty good thing to go to um for staff we'll have one or two people go and whether I go really depends on who else wants to go um that's February 28 yes so far it's a good opportunity yeah so far I've got six or seven people that are on board that have indicated they'd like to go um and then I'll at least have one or two staff members probably go but I need to know by Friday because I want to get those in so that there are spaces for everyone and get the like the PO set up to where we can pay in advance that takes a couple days sounds good I'd encourage everyone to uh try to make it all right for uh new business uh we have the speaker notes is that correct Mr Campbell yes and uh could you read a statement uh regarding the uh proceedings and how the proceedings work uh I'd be happy to Mr chairman um so prior to this uh to hearing the case this evening uh we want to provide a brief overview about the process when a case is called we will hear from the applicant or their representative first the commission reserves the right to question the applicant at any time after the applicant's presentation we will open the floor to anyone who wishes to speak in support of The Proposal then we will open the floor to those wishing to speak against the proposal those wishing to speak must fill out and provide us with

a speaker registration form which are in the back of the room uh all speakers uh must speak at the podium and into the microphone for recording purposes each speaker must identify themselves for the record the commission reserves the right to ask questions of person speaking against the proposal the expectation is for speakers and observers to maintain the professional decorum of this meeting at all times we understand that individuals are often passionate regarding their positions and preferences but this meeting cannot Pro function properly if it becomes unruly we ask that all speakers be conscious of the time and that speakers be concise and avoid making repetitive statements where they can once those in opposition to the proposal have spoken the case will be closed for public comment discussion at that time is limited to the commission although the commission may question uh zoning staff the applicant or those in opposition after discussion the chairman will call for a motion from the commission this motion requires a second after which the motion itself is opened to discussion a vote will be called and action taken on the motion when a motion receives a majority vote the commission issues its recommendation to the Board of Trustees in accordance with the wording of the motion our options are to recommend approval of the requested change approval of the requested change with some modifications or denial of the requested change the purpose of the motion is to make a recommendation to the Board of Trustees regarding the case the authority to Grant an applicant is zoning request or to deny an applicant zoning request rests with the Board of Trustees this case will next be heard at the next meeting of the Board of

Trustees which is scheduled for Mr Corman February 25th I believe 25th U but in this case they may have to schedule a separate meeting um I'll I'll talk about that during the report thank you I appreciate it thank you Mr CH okay thank you Mr Campbell all right our first case tonight and only case is uh case 1- 25- z uh plan development zone change request submitted by am Land Development LLC Mr mccor could you please provide a case summary yes thank you um so the case number was referenced by our chairman the applicant is me Land Development LLC the site location is an unaddressed parcel on Old 74 Old State rout 74 and I've got some typos in I apologize the parcel number is 3731 03062 and the size of the parcel is 37.65 2 Acres the existing zoning of the property is R3 planned multif family residential and uh the purpose of the proposed rezone to plan development is to establish a mixed use project including res residential commercial and recreational uses um the location of the property is on the south side of old state route 74 and is located um between the two townships Union Township and matavia Township there a little over half of it's in Union Township the um road across the street from the project is Olive Branch Stonelake and um the road that dead ends into the Union Township side to the South West is

um wood Chase Trail um old state route 74 is a major collector two lane roadway with the left turn lane in the center and the volume in that area is about 70 7,213 average daily trips in that area the project Olive Branch ston Lake Road is a major collector two-lane roadway with the left turn lane the center in this area with a volume of approximately 4,92 uh average daily trips in this area um these numbers might be skewed a little bit um because they are the most recent numbers and our traffic patterns in the area have changed as a result what's going on with 32 so they could be a little low or they could be a little high depending on what's going on until we get the final traffic patterns that emerge from all the construction activity that's been occurring in in terms of the zoning of the property I only showed the Union Township side um the partiel is Zone as I mentioned earlier R3 and I'll mention how that came to be here in a moment the adjacent property uh to the Southwest is Zone um single family detached structure um R2 and then to the Northeast it's R1 single family attached structure um to the north across from the frontage is business property and to the Northeast is industrial property and then immediately to the South we have a plan to development piece which is one of the Redwood properties and then we have a parcel that's Zed State residential uh to the southeast and the um in the bavia side there are partial Zone industrial adjacent to the property um here's the oblique imagery this one's a little bit I think older than the other

one I'm going to show in a minute but it kind of gives you more of a um General overview of the property you can see there's an overhead power lining with it kind of cuts through it in the area where I'm kind of moving the arrow right now um wood Chase is right here on this slide um this is Old 74 and then across the street is the U Olive Branch ston Lake Road and then you've got I think it's um Rondo I might I'm have to go back and look at that here in a moment that is this one here um and I I took pictures uh in these areas and we'll show you that I want to stop here for a second before I forget so this process for everyone's benefit to describe this like this is the first stage of a rezone process so the first stage is for the applicants to go to the zoning commission for a recommendation this board will only make a recommendation the recommendation will then go to the township trustees in a separate meeting the separate meeting at this point normally it would go straight to the the next meeting in February the meetings are typically the second Tuesday of the month the trustees move the meeting in February once and then they moved it again because they had um board members indicating that they couldn't make one date and then the other date so um when I talked to the applicant prior to the meeting um about a week ago applicant indicated that he could not make the rescheduled date with the trustees which is currently February 25th so we are either going to have to have a separately scheduled meeting for the trustees which we brought up at our trustee meeting that we had what last

week that this could happen or if it moves forward he may ask to potentially be deferred into the March meeting which would be the second Tuesday of the month unless they would have to reschedule it so right now I don't know what that date's going to be I just know that whenever we figure that out we will send notices out to everyone who is an adjoining property owner or who owns property within 200 ft and we'll put it in the newspaper again and we'll post it on the website um but again this is the first of two meetings U at Union Township in bavia Township they also have to go through a reone process in in bavia Township they actually have to go through three hearings two at the township and one prior to that with the county and so no matter what this project has quite a few public hearings left this is just the very first one out of the five that we know that they would have to have um and again this one is for a recomend ation the trustees meeting um is really where the decision is made in terms of to approve or not approve the recommendation that the zoning commission forwards so I'll move forward with the rest of the staff report and looking at the Township's comprehensive plan I did highlight both Parcels but we're really more focused on the western partial here in this on this slide so the Horizon 2030 comprehensive plan for the township indicates that the pro proposal is located within the Olive Branch Stonelake Corridor where a significant portion of the property remains vacant underdeveloped or is otherwise agricultural in character uh majority of the land north 32 is Zone single family residential district whereas the southern portion of the corridor is a zone is zone of a mix of business in various residential zoning districts including the Redwood plan development PD that you saw on the prior slide that

area to the South South West um the comprehensive plan acknowledges for this particular area that mixed density residential development high quality multif family development and integrated commercial residential development may be encouraged where appropriate due to the proximity of existing services and transportation infrastructure uh furthermore the plan specifically recommends buffering landscaping and cohesive Greenway design to ensure high quality growth and development addition the plan calls for plan development zoning PD as the preferred development method in the cor or which is what this application is proposing for the zoning and the plan also focuses on the preservation of wooded hillsides and other natural areas and also calls for the appropriate access management um for appropriate access management strategies for the new developments we'll come back to some of these items here in a moment when we talk about the actual proposal here is another oblique image this is uh in my opinion a better image than the previous one there's a better quality image here you can see the power line um that goes through the property in Union Township um you can see where there was um some sewer work done oops along the creek and you can see the the creek here which I believe is shayer run um you can kind of see some of these offshoots of that that you'll see in the plan I think there's one one in there possibly but the main Creek is is this one right here um when looking at the oblique and trying to Overlay the proposed plan this is approximately what it looks like I'll pause there for a second so in reviewing the comp in the reviewing the

comprehensive plan also the zoning resolution um you're looking at the policies and recommendations that are in the the comprehensive plan as well as article 6 sections 680 is 684 and 687 um the PD requirements for submitt are found in 684 supplemental Provisions are found in 687 I won't read all those to you I get I put those in the staff report in full uh in terms of the background associated with this property this property was was re uh rezone from R1 residential to R5 which we no longer have in 1990 along with two other adjacent Parcels to the Southwest so those other two Parcels are basically where Redwood is now they were in here all of that was rezoned to plan residential district and then the preliminary plan for that particular zom map Amendment involved a multiphase residential development that consisted of 522 single family units on 173 Acres with significant Green Space to be included in reserved the two Parcels to the Southwest are now part of the shaer crossing subdivision H I believe that um the other one is part of the Redwood property and then the subject property that remain this the project that's proposed is currently tentatively called shaune station that has remained undeveloped and the development plans for the property which was subsequently changed from R5 to R3 and now R3 still exists but one can no longer ask for R3 it's a kind of like a grandfather

pre-existing non-forming designation at this point but it does allow for multif family development it's just that a new plan has to be submitted um that R three changed in early 1990s when the township Consolidated some zoning district and reviewing the proposal there's the two parcels and then the property more on the west side is the Union Township side um The applicant's Proposal involves mixed density residential development and integrated commercial residential development um and in some and some portions of the plan are um consistent with the comprehensive plan um however there are components of the proposed recreational use the golf course that raised some compatibility concerns um in particular there are there have been concerns from respect of the proposed lighting associated with the planed Golf Course um one that the proposed light to be emitted at or near the property lines and Road ride of ways um would be at or less than what would we typically see on residential development which usually is at one foot candle or less um for like the neighbors lights or whatever um they all all have to be downward directed and shielded and then the other aspect with associated with lighting is the proposed hours of operation um in the UNS so and then there there's another element that that we will touch on related to the golf course that's come up here uh in a in a few minutes the proposed single family development in the southwestern area of the project is um currently consisting of 41 single family detached homes on 17.8 One Acres which includes the open space to be

preserved don't it's kind of hard to see on these images but there is a green space area that shows up on some other p in the plan that encircles the proposed single family Development Area um and that area is we are going to show in the staff report later to be preserved maintained um undisturbed if possible we'll get back to that one the single family development would be accessed via wood Chase Trail which the dead end's currently at end this property and um the lots that back into the shayer crossing subdivision have been designed so that they are the same width of the lots that are behind them particularly on Bob White Drive uh the depth of the lots are still a little different but they are reasonably similar and then as one gets into the development the Lots decrease in size um from approximately 9,375 ft to 6,875 sare Ft and with the minimum LDS reduced from 75 ft to 55 ft although clustered together in denser manner it including the open space um which again is intended to be preserved um particularly after any and all necessary grading work resulting density of the single family development portion of the project is about 2.3 units per acre which is within 02 units per acre of the nearest portion of shaer Crossing wood Chase Trail is intended to be built the same specs and standards that are currently in place of the um sections that exist on Sher Crossing which respect to rideway Street width

and sidewalks um the radii issue that I point out in the staff report um that has been addressed that is not the radi were above the 40t number so that's no longer a concern um since I did the staff report and also the total length of the Dead End Street is over 900 ft which again I had noted at the time of the staff report required relief and approval from the County Engineer's Office so that it's my understanding that that may not be an issue with the engineers office that is something that they will have to work out with the engineer office if they move forward um the uh one of the main drivers of that comment was also related to the fire department's comments and the fire department more or less basically said there is a section of their code that says if you have a certain length of road or certain number of homes and single family that um there has to be another access what's interesting is that you can have three times as many multi family units and that not apply and I don't know why the difference and neither did the fire department um I talked to the Chief and the one of the the assistant chief about the comments that they made um initially they were going to give me a separate report but um after reviewing it they had indicated that we've not been strictly applying that everywhere and so to be equal and fair about how it's been reviewed in the past they they're not the fire department's not pushing that particular

issue so if there's an issue with the Dead End Street system at all it'll be something that has to get identified and worked out with the county Engineers office and as of right now we don't have anything from the county engine Engineers office that says there's a problem um if there is something that pops up as a as a problem they will have to address it to move forward um terms of the rest of the staff report within the proposed single family Development Area there is an area defined on the plan as being within approximate limits of a wetland that area you can see on this slide is right here where I'm circling it and so it's not that the property is specifically Wetland they more or less have to do some evaluation of it to determine if it is wetland and if it is they might have to go through well they would have to go through some mitigation efforts to take care of that and address that area and potentially anything after that um obviously if there's a wetland area it could change their plan and it and the mitigation efforts could change their plan and if it changes substantially from what we're looking at here they may have to come back and go through you know the process of that we're that we're undertaking now essentially um or otherwise go through a major amendment to a PD potentially depending on how things transpire and as of right now the applicants rep has indicated the staff has indicated to the staff that they are not fully pursuing um that study um and mitigation until they can find out whether or not the proposed uses and concept is agreeable um because they don't necessarily want to spend money on the engineering side of things beyond the concept of what they're showing unless

they know they kind of have the blessing to move forward with what they're proposing in terms of the proposed single family attached condo area to the project that is um up here in the northeast corner um most of that area is is going to be as far as the building units will be in bavia Township um and Union Township there would be a proposed three buildings um 28 single family attached condo units total on 3.18 One Acres with a density of 7.34 units per acre um got two s unit buildings and one 14 unit building and and there are five buildings of 14 units in bavia Township plan resulting in an additional 70 single family attached condo units the proposed streets serving this part of the project would be private streets would be narrower and width um and I think that's where we do still see that there's some smaller radi overall density of the proposed project in the Union Township area is 3.19 dwelling units bre 69 dwelling units on 21.62% [Music] the project um here are some examples of the proposed building elevation types for the 41 single family

homes I'll stop with that for a second um so what we've received so far in terms of the proposed building materials and look of the buildings appear to be in line with the comprehensive plans uh recommendations and policies with uh sufficient use of high quality building materials although the proposed front and rear setbacks of the proposed single family portion of the development are consistent with adjacent single family detached structure residential R2 uses um 30 ft for both and the side yard the proposed side yards are 2 and 1/2 ft less than those found in the R2 District um at 7 and 1/2 ft rather than 10 ft additionally there's some requested relief to allow for decks and patios to be permitted in the rear step back area except for the lots that AB but um The shayer Crossing subdivision which the green area indicated in the here indicates a acknowledges a 20ft landscaping vegetation preservation area that would allow no decks patios or other improvements within the rear yard of those areas that would be strictly to maintain the vegetation that's there or if something is taken out like for example honeysuckle they would have to put in you know good quality Tre or something else to um compensate for for something that's getting taken out although Landscaping PL been introduced staff proposes existing vegetation um that may be disturbed on the southwestern portion of the project adjacent to shler Crossing be replac with high quality reasonably matur vegetation as I just mentioned um additionally some Landscaping may be needed in other are such as other Disturbed areas Street areas additional dumpster areas Etc um in general staff finds that a Garian quarter along the

shayer along shayer run should be established in a manner that is consistent with the clont County's Soil and Water Conservation District's standard recommendations um which I did not have when I wrote the report but I received after I wrote the report and I'll show those in the updated recommendation slide here in a minute and that all efforts should be directed to preserve the existing grades and land cover near the aforementioned stream as well as any area that contains a mature healthy high quality plants and habitat areas uh finally staff finds that efforts must be made to preserve wooded hillsides and other natural areas maintain and or provide positive drainage away from existing development and keep well clear of any and all identified easements consist comprehensive plan uh there is an HOA document that has been submitted as far of the applicant statements and enclosures which sets forth intended maintenance measures for the Development Area um that is for the residential Development Area not for the golf course itself which is separate um area entity to be maintained remaining technical questions and issues will be in the recommended modification section here in a moment um as far as the action required we're looking at sections 680 to 687 of the zoning resolution for the PD process we're also looking at as a rezone article 4 sections 404 and 4010 and specifically um with res zones we're looking at that the applicant provide a statement of the reasons for the proposed amendment and that provide a statement that explains the ways in which the proposed amendment relates to the comprehensive plans and then the board in turn and the written decision shall indicate the specific reason reasons upon which the recommendation is based to include in the basis of determination that the proposed

amendment is or is not consistent with the comprehensive plan and some of that also has to do with you know is the proposed development um compatible with the area reasonably um the character um you know is there a proposal is the proposal creating a substantial harm like a qu iable substantial harm things along things along those lines um are also generally things to be considered before I get through the recommended modifications I'll go through the slides of the site and some of these obviously we did off the Google driveby there was so much snow that I for the last week and a half only took a couple pictures because it's really tough to get good pictures otherwise of what was there the good thing is we were drive by um was updated between August and October of last year so we have pretty good shots the only thing is you have to remember that that camera's pretty high up in the air so some cases like the visibility isn't quite as good as it seems so this is looking East towards proposed old state route 74 um the site is on your right and this is looking West towards Old 74 and the site would be on your left oops this is looking South at the intersection with olive branch ston Lake towards the proposed Old 74 axis area you see the power lines there and this is looking North Cross from that area where where one would have been standing to take the previous picture um at that intersection away from the property this

is looking Northeast towards the proposed wood Chase Trail access which will be at the very end here this is what it looked like last week um you can see through the woods a little bit more um barely over the top of that snow there is a public caring sign we just put the mountain but they some of them didn't survive the snow and some of them are hard to see because of the snow that was plow this is looking Southwest the other way in towards the subdivision on wood Chase Trail um this is on Stoddard Lane looking Southwest Stoddard Lane is a very um pretty narrow area access and it seems to get more narrower the further back to go um that is the BFW there on the right and right here kind of when you start getting into that parking area is where Rondo Lane is and that is what Rondo Lane looks like from stod um gravel Improvement single Lane a little bit of passibility there at the very end there by stod and as you get towards the end that's what it looks like and the subject your property is directly ahead of you there is no proposal to enter the site from Rondo Lane um we just wanted to kind of show you from the areas that we could reasonably get access to what what the property looks like um at the time considered going out during the week and a half or whatever the snow was more significant where we can't couldn't get out there and Hike it like we normally do um in terms of the recommended modifications um so item one the applicant would need to address concerns of other departments and agencies which would include access from the uh into the property and propos road designs for County engineers

um with regard to County's Soil and Water Conservation we were looking at setbacks potentially for Sher run um and that stream repairing in Corridor area and strategies to minimize clearing and Grading um and on this particular site I added this part in here uh Mr mcmanis from the county S water office indicated via email that he would recommend a 25t buffer on either side of the string um to U have area there not Disturbed next to the spring and and have that repairing Corridor um as far as the light proposed lighting photometric plan um that would need to ultimately be updated and the um lighting would all have to be noted as being inward downward directed and shielded dark sky comp we need to have details to show that proposed lighting right now we don't have that so that we would be able to see that the lighting is downward directed and shielded and then be able to see that the foot candle measurements at the property lines and Road rideway areas or one foot candle or less um we would need an enhanced Landscaping plan as I mentioned earlier in the areas that I mentioned the disturb are Street areas D dumpster locations uh we would uh need to acknowledge all grading access and proposed Road and building improvements would be kept well clear of any identified easements um the applicate would need to provide the 20 foot Landscaping vegetation preservation area acknowledging that there would be no improvements in the rear yard areas the proposed Lots buting the existing lots that Shad or crossing and then a stage plan would need to be submitted um which would be limited to Monument signage and I think that the

monument sign that they would be putting in would potentially be off of volt 74 and I think that's the only location and they would be capped I think at 10 ft and then we had some other items that really need to be addressed moving forward to meet the requirements for site plan from article 11 section 1131 um that concludes my report the additional items that I wanted to go over we did receive in the last day three written comments um one was from Mr ban Brian florco at 4236 Bob White Drive one was from Dylan Osborne at 1164 Parkside Drive and one was from Crystal sarvak and hers came in lately um I can address those by reading them if you like or I can just give you the G of them how about the gist of them I've read through two of them I don't have the third one so the third one I'll go over first because I got it after 5:00 it was and I went I emailed her back and forth a couple times but before you do that just just to be clear is the applicant proposing to operate the golf course and the driving range in non daylight hours yes During certain months of the year oh okay how did it say is it's in their narrative so that's why we're looking at the lighting that you were talking about isn't just is for okay yep I did not put the lighting plan in the slides um but it it was like really you could kind of look at the upper leftand corner of the lighting and you can see where the lighting was being cast to kind of have an idea if it was I've seen driving ranges and I understand the kind

of light we're dealing with the driving range but we're looking at a residential area here so they definitely looking at at nighttime operation I just want to be clear on that yeah and the applicant can speak to the the time period that that's more applicable to because the the golf course would completely shut down certain months of the year and the lighting is more to do is more dependent on like whether it's spring summer or fall all right um but they'll have to address that particular item they have someone here that did the lighting plan I think to speak about it all right thank you let's move on to the uh letters so the comment the third comment that I got kind of late um really just pertains to proposed Lots one and U 41 which are these first two on either side of the wood Chase proposed extension on the on some of the paperwork it looks like particularly this one here which I think is lot one they're proposing a 30 foot front yard setback off of the new um Street and also looks like the volore area would be about 30 feet off of the RightWay for the front on the corner here and then on lot 41 the proposed front yard set back is 30 ft and then the one on this side here facing wood Chase looks like it's less but in the um paperwork the other paperwork it states flatly that they're they're looking at a 30ft setback and nor normally we would apply the 30ft front yard setback on the corner lot to both front yards and so basically the third the last comment I received was from the lady that lives here in this house here and she her main concern was that those lots that continue if if wood chase continues she wanted them to be

you know as far off of the road as their other houses so that they would have a 30ft setback basically that was her main concern um and summary and so I went back and forth through about that and I said I would indicate um that that was an issue we would talk about and that was Mrs SAR sarvi um as far as the other comments the first one I sent you was from Brian floro on Bob White Drive um he couldn't attend because of some U business but he wanted to indicate he was very interested in being here he just you know things happen he would likely come to a trustee meeting um if he can make it he we had talked um before by email and also um virtually um he understands that they have a right to develop the property his he had an understanding that the current developer has had the property for 30 years but I don't think that that's the case and I'll let the development Representatives talk about that I think that the idea is that there's a proposed offer to buy the land contention upon some things to happen I don't know how long the current owner has own it without doing some research and are in my mind it's not really relevant um basically his it seemed like he was more in favor of the housing component but had more of a general um opposition to the golf course he had indicated that there are a total of 33 CR courses AC across the us that are not 18 full gol golf courses out of 16,000 that he looked at um he was asking about you know is the research why they think the concept would work and work in this location

that there's demand for it um that the power lines wouldn't be a um an issue um he said something about is there demand for golfers for golfer only seven holes but there's nine proposed and then ask there's the man to play after dark um he's talking about the business plan which we don't normally get into the business plan much I mean it's I iy told him it was maybe a far a fair thing to talk about well if something were to ever happen with the golf course you know what would be what would happen to this area because I know sometimes like people want to know okay does that mean this area could be further developed or not um and basically we you know wanted to ensure that the whatever is happening there is in conform with a plan for the township um you know he's asking about why this why have this plan not just developed residential units why now versus in the last 30 years who's who are the Target customers um basically why not just develop it residential and then how many hours how much revenue will be needed to buy the extended play plane time and hours and he's asking to um lean towards recommending if you lean towards recommending please ensure modifications that are related to light water runoff Wetland preservation of Natural Resources um he says that his property is likely to have an unreasonable negative impact reled to light pollion and water runoff I will say I did talk to him about water

runoff and the proposed water is supposed to go away from Bob White the other way and I did indicate that to him and I also indicated to him that whenever these plans for development get presented that really with any case they have to address the volume and velocity of the water that's going to the neighboring property so number one the volume and velocity of the water that leaves the property as it's being developed has to be equal than or less than what was there before the development and the county folks do that kind of review and then if there's a problem that they can address in whole or part they they usually try to make them address that now sometimes they're not able to address the whole problem because it involves other properties um but in this case that's not the information we have indicating that the proposed range is away from Bob White towards a basin that would be here to the um North West of that proposed new road are there any detention ponds or basins in the golf course um so the Basin I think they're all AEL to retention there's one here there's one here there's one here and the other ones I think are in Pavia there's one I think there might be another one there I want to say there's five they can correct me if I'm wrong um um again there's some belief about once this gets reviewed at a higher level there's going to be potentially some other issues with storm water which is entirely possible including the Wetland mitigation um we really don't know until that happens and a lot of times that's not going to happen until the applicant gets further down regards

who the applicant is further down the construction process so right now there's a conceptual level review the more detailed analysis really comes when they start looking at the construction level review and so as I mentioned earlier right now you're at the first of five public hearings that we know of that we one would have to go through to get this project done even if all that happens they still then have to submit construction plans that's a whole different set of things that have to be addressed before development can happen so there's a lot of steps and codes still have to be addressed for something like this to move forward and then he's essentially not asking that there be consideration given to the things that he's mentioned um protecting his property rights ensuring there's no negative property value impact so that's you know you guys probably had some time to read through it all the other comment I received um around midday or little after was from Dylan Osborne at 1164 Park Side Drive not able to attend the meeting wanted to pass on his opinion he lives nearby in shayer park supports the development of done responsibly um his comments were more exclusive to the golf course and driving range he supports the residential development portion proposed illuminated nin hole golf course with practice green Clubhouse driving range and so forth he also noted there I found it strange that there are about 16,000 golf courses in America a quarter of which are N9 hole golf or nine-hole hes so I don't know the two guys were getting different I don't even know where they were get the numbers CU I I wasn't trying to fact check he was one of them um he know there's been a significant boom since the pandemic as well as a drop in the

average AE of participants so golf a growing sport again closest nine hole nine whole courses in New Town at Little Miami Golf Center um constant flow golfers both playing practicing year round given the heated Bay and nine hole course this is a he says that he believes there a market for this to happen um he would not be driving to New Town to play nine holes are practice if this was available basically here um only thing missing is a short game practice area when considering the proposed lumination of the course instantly becomes a one- of-the kind destination facility for Greater Cincinnati if this is paired with a pleasant Clubhouse experience to food and beverages it will be an instant draw he supports the development in short all right thank you those were the three comments that we had I know we had other people calling um but those were the only written comments that we've received all right thank thank you very much thanks is the applicant or their representative here to speak for the case tonight so please step forward and identify yourself uh good evening my name is Robert Gerwin from me Land Development uh little background on myself before we get into the project uh you need my address it's on the paperwork I believe okay 4981 Stonelake uh well my address where our business is oh yes 5725 Dragon way suite4 in Fairfax 45227 all right thank you

a little background on myself um I've been developing communities uh since 2000 in Claremont County I've done nine communities uh we started out uh developing and building our and in the past 10 years I've been focusing on developing communities uh for for Builders um and um so um and that would be the case here with the addition of the golf course um my background uh as a golfer I'm a member of the greater cincin night Golf Association I'm a past president of the greater cincin night Golf Association so I can speak uh from a great deal of experience of of golf uh the needs that golf has for junior golf or Senior Golf how expensive golf has become uh my travels of playing tournament golf around the country of taken me many places and actually this project is a result of playing an a tournament Florida in 2008 and we went down and played a uh Palm Beach par three course um and um uh it's on the ocean um on one side and the inter Coast on the other side um the golf course was wonderful the experience was wonderful there's a nice little restaurant with in the clubhouse an Italian restaurant and it it dawned at me that that this is an opportunity uh that has not been fulfilled um in in Greater Cincinnati U where you can take a smaller piece of property a complicated piece of property um build some housing units and incorporate a small Golf Course to provide uh less experience a less expensive golfing experience but still a wonderful experience in this property with the creek and the topography and the trees it's a beautiful piece of property so uh I'm I'm very excited about going through the opportunities and the work that needs to

be done to get it approved but I think it'd be a great benefit to the community not just the new community but Claremont County and Union Township as a whole so um I I provided some some photos there to to Mark to pass around um one is uh um I I don't know if yall are golfers uh but you know I grew up with um listings of the top 100 golf courses in America and they are 18 whole golf courses and and uh in the past few years there's now great recognition of short courses of par three golf courses and and last year they came out with the first Golf League came out with the first listing of the top 40 uh short courses in America and um none of them are in Kentucky Indiana or Ohio so we're you know here we're missing the picture of providing an opportunity for seniors and and children ladies to have a golfing experience on of course it's not too hard that you can walk it's not too expensive but you can have a wonderful experience a wonderful day with your with your family or your friends so um you know our vision um is to develop uh a nice Community with Fisher homes as our home builder um with a golf course that uh um Can can meet the needs of the community uh another one of the Flyers there we pried was U some uh sites a good friend of mine has a golf course you built a par three golf course in Greenville South Carolina and it's lit and um um what lighting does it's really only for September October and November if you have nice evenings you know if it's a rainy crummy evening we you know we're not going to have the lights on but U it

provides an additional amenity to the community to be able to come have dinner go out and play some golf or play golf and then have dinner and my son is is a good golfer um and uh in his grade school had a uh a grade school golf team and and they played the little Miami Golf Center all the time and Fifth Fifth Grade 6th seventh 8ighth grade these kids played Little Miami all the time and invariably because there were so many kids and so many schools playing that you know he'd play the last three four holes in the dark so there really is a it it you know the technology for lighting has changed where you can control the the and I and I have the expert of the manufacturer of the lighting here tonight he'll speak later so I'm I'm I just know enough to be dangerous but they can control where the light shines how much the candle light is and it it it you know it it would it would create a a you know real nice amenity to the community to be able to to play the golf course into the evening and we can control the lighting to not bother our neighbors and that's important and uh so um um with that being said um you know as Mark talked about you know we're talking about 98 u u condos they single U floor living so um it would Target empty nester retirees and again the the the price point would would you know be and Fred cahan from Fisher homes is here and he'll talk a little bit further on that but again it it'll lend itself to to uh more U cost effective position where people can have a condo play a little Golf and and enjoy the community um and and then there's 41 single family homes on the on the Union Township side on the on the west side of the property um we did meet with Jeremy Evans the

Clermont County engineer um I met with him three years ago I've been working on this project for almost three and a half years now originally when I brought it to the township we were trying to do a multifam um and it didn't it didn't make any any Headway but Jeremy um um wants the entrance onto the property at the light so that's we've Incorporated that into the community there there is a bridge that we'd need to build once you cross the the creek there we've have John cazar from contact has been out he's done preliminary studies that's included in the pictures there what kind of bridge we would have to cross to to access the property um it'd be comparable to the bridge that is on on Old 74 on the top right side there to the right of the driving range there's a Bridge Crossing there and it'd be it'd be fairly comparable to that um we haven't done final hydraulic analysis and all the detail work but he's done some leg work to give us an idea um uh we did meet with the the fire chief at the Tavia Township um his one comment was he would have to serve the clubhouse from um behind the driving range so we did a little employee parking area and he and Jeremy Evans at the Claremont County allowed us a second curb cut so that the fire truck God forbid we need a fire but if they come in they can go out um and uh um he did want Jeremy Evans um he wanted the the entrance to the condos into the golf course to be a private road because of the product from Fisher homes has some parking in front of the condos and they'd be backing onto the street so he needed it to be a private road um whereas on the for the single family homes those would be that' be a

public road there so we designed it accordingly to those um County representatives and what their needs were uh we we have met with uh Chief Clemens at Union Township um um the CU of Sachs were a foot short in the uh in the single family lots we we'll have that adjusted um did make a comment about the concerns about the the second access point but he he told me that was resolved um so um uh the uh in terms of the uh uh water and controlling the water on the site um um in my years you know the the engineer as a developer you always have to control your water it can't go onto somebody's site um so we we have five to ponds on this site to control the water in all areas and we want to use the water for the golf course I mean we we'll have pumps to be able to pump into the sprinkler systems to water the golf course so um in the engine the engineers here tonight if you have any engineering questions but the the grades would be such that the water you know in terms of on U wood wood Chase Trail there uh next to um shayer those lots the water will drain forward and come to towards the street and then would work left to the to the tension P at the end of the CAC so um you know it's it's a CL Claremont County would review all that and make sure it meets their specifications but um I've always found that if if if a person's concerned about drainage or there's water in their site you would prefer somebody to come develop because they've got to control the water and that water is not going to be coming onto your house and your lot anymore so um we can take care of that for that g [Music]

um the uh you know our clubhouse um you know again the the vision of of the community and the and the golf course is really is to be fun you know it's not supposed to be U difficult or it's supposed to be fun so what we we'd name our clubhouse the grubhouse and and you we'd have you know we'd have a we' have food and beverage and and uh uh uh but it it uh you know that's a important part of of what we're trying to accomplish um the lighting um you know again I made the comment about the lighting um U you know my son and they're playing the last three holes in the dark you know because the Technologies um improve so much with the lighting I think it's a u it's something that we can work together to provide that would enable the golf course to play later in the evenings and and since it's only 3 months in the fall and 3 months in the spring I think it's something that that you know I think you know it'd be okay and I think people would realize that it's it creates an nice amen for for the community um the driving range would have heated bays in it so we'd have we'd have grass teas and mats but they also there be heated bays and again I don't know if you're all are golfers but the heated Bays would have the top Tracer technology in it so when you'd hit golf balls there would be a little screen and you can see how far your golf Ball's going how much it's curving and it's a great practice tool to work on your golf game and it's a uh it just creates a a better golfing experience when you're practicing working on your game U also inside the clubhouse there'd be golf simulators again for winter use you know if you're seeing on Tuesday nights they have this this new Tiger Woods and Rory M have this new tour where they're

hitting inside into screens the technology for golf simulators is really it's amazing where you can play all these different golf courses and see all the data and so we'd have a couple golf simulators in the clubhouse again for winter use so people come have dinner maybe hit balls outside or come in and use the simulators again it provides the the experience that that would be you know year round use for the community [Music] um and then as I said before uh Brad Callahan from fiser will be here and then uh um um the the lighting manufacturer here also his name is Jamie Shroyer from Green Electrical Solutions he's come down from Columbus tonight to discuss the lighting so any questions I can I can answer do any member of the board have a question none time the um what what Provisions do you have for errant golf balls that would fly beyond the boundaries of the the golf course possibly into a residential property or a residential house that's a great that's a great question um um we do have 70 yards of width between the holes and the and the in the condos but I'm sure somebody's going to head an errant golf ball so U we'd probably have to have something in our HOA docks and at the golf course to accommodate um insurance and to solve a problem if somebody gets a broken window or something like that correct all right that's all the questions I have and thank you very much thank this is a nine hole course correct or a seven yes just nine next I'll ask Brad Callahan from Fisher homes to come up oh I do have one

question you know the the pictures that you you provided uh all appear to demonstrate and show much larger open areas and not areas surrounded by uh other Residential Properties which brings me to concern about the lighting uh you you definitely have plans to provide lighting and and operate in hours Beyond sun sunrise and sunset yes sir it' be 8:00 a.m. to 10: p.m. is what we we we're requesting so at 10 p.m. the lights would be off thank you y uh good evening everyone um like like Robert said my name is Brad Callahan I'm the land acquisition manager for Fisher homes um Robert just asked me to speak a little bit about the the community and the products that were we're offering um within uh the two areas so uh the the first thing I I just wanted to to talk about was on the 41 um single family units um coming out of shayer so what we would be proposing there at this time is a a mix of our uh Maple Street and designer product um certainly it it at least at this point would be looking against the the shayer neighborhood to be our designer product um those would would basically start at the in the upper 400s um which as I looked at uh the the neighboring areas I think I found a couple in the in the mid fours is kind of what I found um you're looking at uh two stories for for the both products you're looking at 1,800 Square ft on the on the Maple Street up to 30 3,100 sare ft plus um so you can get from the upper 400s you can touch the kind of low fives there those are just the base prices so those would be any options would be above and beyond that um and and then

even our Maple Street product would be would basically start in the low to mid 400s um from that standpoint um we're looking at all uh homes with basements so uh depending on the the Topography of the lot some of them are going to be walkouts some of them would be uh mid levels and then some of them would be just um what we consider an upper so it would have a patio on it um just depending on grade that way but they would all be basements at this point um most of them are going to be three to or sorry all of them are going to be three to four bedrooms depending on whether it's a ranch um our Ranch plans start in the the mid 16 you know about 1650 squ ft um as far as that goes we would we would offer a mix between two car garages and three car garages just site dependent and obviously uh customer dependent if that was an option that they wanted to to have um so it would be a very comparable product to what we're building next to um and and even that is as as I saw your your head your head kind of go when I was given those prices you know some of them would be smaller uh you know smaller square footage at higher prices which certainly would help the the the adjacent neighborhoods from that standpoint with their home values as well um then so that would be on the single family then to go over the condos um the condos if you're familiar with our 12 Oaks uh neighborhood down the street down on K uh it would be that same Gallery product so not the not the the duplex units but the the condos there would' be the same similar elevations is what we're looking at similar product so certainly familiar with um doing those things within the township um we do feel that that is a it it's certainly a need as as I'm sure you all have seen within the township it's something that's been well received um by our our buyers and and something that they're looking for there so um those right now we're looking at uh you know right now they start in the mid 200s those would be uh for the basically the

over the garage units the ones that don't include a garage um but you know are still within that so there are buyers for that too out there and then usually goes to kind of low threes is is where we're at with the bigger units that are the more uh the the entry level is uh we we do have those are are all ADA Compliant units um just because as as Robert was saying earlier there are a lot of people out there that are that are kind of Aging that that want that and and look for that it's not something we have to do but we found that we do have a lot of buyers for that as well so um other than that you know uh like Robert was saying earlier uh products are going to match similar to to what we've done in the area most of our front elevations are going to include you know brick hard siding um Stone things like that um and you know just just being consistent with what we do in the everywhere else in the in the township and in the in the county any questions for me concerns any questions from the board thank you very much all right thank you hello I'm Jamie schroyer from Green Electrical Solutions I did make the trip down from Columbus today so can't keep it stay too long tonight um I just talk about the lighting plans a little bit you mentioned that you you did not add them to the screen I'm not sure which version you got cuz there's multiple ones

um we made multiple revisions of this we put culation point around the uh residential areas to make sure we're not getting over one foot handle and have trouble I have it pulled up here on my iPad here to plug this in while they're working on that U are you saying that if a resident were to step out on there you know I'm familiar with the lighting that's on driving ranges and on lighted after hours golf courses you're saying that if a resident would to step out on their on their deck or their their backyard they wouldn't see a glow from from the area there would not see any any light pollution from this operation we won't have any light above the height of the poles because we have a shield on top of the fixture to the do but it goes down but it things beneath it can be reflective and then like to shoot shoot the light back up again so you would have a GL you would have a glow I mean depends on how many lights you have would there be more light than you would have in a in a residential neighborhood I don't think so um yeah um no that's an [Music] old similar um we got make sure put calculation points all around everything so that we took a light meter out there

and make code it would not be over one foot candle across the property line um and the glare we use anti-glare LED chips you don't have a big glare like we used to on side of and buildings all old football fields and you can always tell where the football game was cuz you have big glow on top of everything we're eliminating that we have to because of all the stipulations of the dark sky requirements so we're lighting what needs to be lit versus everything around so hopefully that an your question good dud it thank you great um I don't think you want to see this I can bring it up there I don't need to see it if anybody else need to see we're good thank you I would I would just note that like to get for them to get to the measurements they need to get to I don't the staff doesn't see it as a problem as far as meeting the one foot candle threshold you can see by looking at this photometric plan that all of the lights are shining away from the proposed Development Area except for that one there and that one there isn't really close to existing development the existing development I think this is Rondo up here see it's quite the distance and again it would be downward directed and then everything else is kind of faced the other way um there is some lighting that's directed towards the buildings that are new but if you're buying into that you would already know that was the case right um on the Union Township side they're all directed away from the proposed units and existing units except

for that one right there which is going to be no problem to mitigate at the property line and we would not want them spotlighting outward that's another reason why we want them to stay downward directed and shielded yeah but you still get you still get bleed off you still get glow I mean it you'll still you may still be able to see that there's light there that wasn't there previously right because it was a dark completely dark area and you've got you know when they're shooting down you've got reflective surfaces down there that shoot it back up again I mean there's all types of things that can redirect the light once it hits one thing and then goes back up again and Ave range in a residential area I mean operational during the day I understand the the driving range is in bavia over here it's in the bavia area yeah it's in that northeast corner um and then these I'd have to go back to one of the earlier pages to show holes here on um so are we not considering the driving range and our it's no the driving range is on the other is out of the town ship is that of Township that's over here and the township line is that pink line right here all right is is the driving ring lit as well yes it's just done so the first three holes are entirely in bavia four five seven eight nine are in Union and six is kind of split so what type of lighting is actually in the golf course area how often are there poles and how tall are the poles are they only at the tea off positions only at the uh greens there also a couple lights pointing over from that same spot

to the T box so they're at the greens and the tea positions but nothing in between right and how tall are the light poles 30 ft right now I'm sorry 30 ft 30 ft and here's the basically visor on top of each light and on the C place it shows uh what position each light is uh for example the Tilt is 77° this is 90 77 and then the visor goes like this yet to stop light from going up above that space all right thank you any other questions uh no thank you right thank you yes the engineers here commented on those those two lots on the corner Mark but they they we can provide the 30ft um setback in the front and on the side on both those lots one and 41 which are these two here yeah yeah the other the other thing that you can't really see on the on the screen is that it's two-dimensional um really there's a lot of Topo and the golf course Works down the valley along the creek so the lighting is down below the housing the housing is above so in in the in the new housing I mean there you know they're they're they're going to know that the lights are there so it it so I think it's a because of the toppo that limits the the effect of the lights as well so any thank you very much thank

you all right is that uh is the applicants complete that no one more for the applicant all right thank you all right is there anyone else to speak for the case besides the applicant is there anyone that would like to approach and uh speak against the case all right let's uh start with the list uh George Mr George Madden could you read these off and I'm George Madden one 235 wood Chase thank you Mr Matt by the the map there we're the first the fourth house back from the subject property um came into this meeting with a lot of concerns some of which have been answered but um some still remain I guess our biggest concern involves the fact that we bought the house about three and a half years ago a little over that when we did the woods behind us was an advantage and the woods at the end of the street at the end of wood Chase and the fact that it was a dead end Street was a nice event it was a quiet neighborhood not much traffic nobody came down the street unless they were going to one of the last houses on wood Chase or on Bob White or pheasant holl um in the three and a half years we've been there Redwood went in behind us which we kind of knew that was going to happen when we bought the house and now we're dealing with this um a lot of my concerns were alleviated by what was talked about but the biggest concern we still have I think is the amount of traffic that would be on wood Chase both once the housing is done and people are going back and forth and the

second just looking at the the plan there there's 40 some Lots Mark 41 yeah um I'm a realtor also that's about two years worth of construction so we're looking at at least two years worth of construction traffic on Woodchase um on all the dirt and all the noise and all the risk to the children and shiler Crossing that that's going to present when the trucks come down the roads the roads in shiler Crossing aren't in that great a shape to start with I mean there's some problems there's some repaving that needs to be done but you put trucks on that for construction traffic and it's going to go down but our biggest concern is that I mean to have to put up with construction traffic mail for two years is not going to be the quiet neighborhood that it used to be you're going to have 41 other families using wood Chase going in and out um being a realtor I wouldn't deny anybody that ever the chance to develop their own property um and I know Fisher homes and I know I've dealt with Fisher homes before so I know it's a quality house but the biggest concern is still that now I from the first discussion there I thought the golf course was just going to be on the green part of matavia Township so the golf course is actually going to then wrap around the new development coming off the end of wood Chase one question I have would be whether the end of wood Chase would be the high point because that land does it's pretty rugged and it does slope downward from there down to Old 32 so is the end of wood Chase going to be the high point uh we already have a drainage problem in in our backyard uh and the water drains from that parcel uh to the

Southwest so it's going down through our backyard as it is if this if water goes the wrong way it can't they're not allowed to develop anything that would increase the current flow that you have and so if that were to happen they'd have to come in and mitigate it and then the county is really manages that aspect of it uh the uh the Retention Ponds uh should should take care of that and it's to their advantage to manage the water it's not to their advantage at all to to to lose control of where the water is going I'll ask that question because I know of a situation over in in Deerfield Township there are some areas one where Drees developed it Elliot farm and the people that lived across the street from that got their drainage pattern changed dramatically and Bre wouldn't do anything about it so you I'm familiar with with with that situation but and we're keeping a close eye on on drainage and that's that's an important aspect with your cursor could you indicate where the golf course is going to be yes and answer answer real quick your drainage question um so this area this is The High Ground highest ground okay and on this portion of shauny Trail that's all designed to drain towards this proposed retention area which you know I mean there's some ability to move some of this but it definitely drains that way and then this is The High Ground and everything's head towards the creek here which is you can see right in here in the middle will the and this comment's been made already I think but will that the homes on that street the extension of wood Chase will they be higher than the golf course oh yeah so it'll slope down from both sides yep cuz I know having walked back through there I know it's pretty pretty

R yeah it drops I mean you can see the faint lines the more lines are more shade that means they're steeper so a lot of difference in grade there so if somebody stood at the end of wood Chase right now and looked out toward the new homes and the golf course would they be able to see the light CL that all depends on is that good be below they they I'm not going to say they wouldn't be able to see them at all it depends because you got to factor in like the homes right that would be there right the drop in the hill and how tall the lights would be it's hard to say really I mean if there's nothing there but the lights then I would say yeah you probably see something but again it's not supposed to be outward facing a question for Brad kellyan I guess and Brad I've told to you before we talked about another property um the designer series is that going to be on that section up next to the end of currently the end wood Chase and then map back okay then the maple will be the smaller you you had another question besides drainage what was the other question um well one question was where the golf course was going to be there was some confusion about that so um it wraps around pulls one two and three wrap around from the matavia side here here and here and then four is here five is here six is here seven is here eight and then nine so that's pretty much on the

outside of the proposed attach units in vavia and then Works its way between the two areas um and kind of just stays there between those two areas and okay so it doesn't come around the north side and North the only one that's anywhere near that north side is nine and eight right here but they're not on the outling areas here they're not on the northwest part I guess guess again our main concern is a two years worth of construction traffic on the street and if it's any consolation the density that they're proposing number of units is drastically less than could be built on that property under the current zoning understand dramatically less that doesn't negate the two years of construction traffic no but it could be much worse it could have been much it could be much more it could could have been but it's and you could have multif family apartment buildings back there well one concern I had to begin with was whether the street was going to go all the way through to Old 32 um obviously it's not under under this proposal but if there would be some way that they could get the construction traffic in and out of there without going through shaer Crossing and without going down wood CHS that would be great I don't know if there is or not of the people on Ronda or there's another side street there they'd have the same objection if the traffic was down near Street those streets are smaller than wood Chase all right well thank you very much yeah thank you thank you thank you uh next on the list Mr Campbell uh yes Mr chairman chairman uh Tim sarvak I apologize if I mispronounced that oh good you addressed the comment

from my wife early Mark you addressed her comment um s sarac excuse me Tim SAR live at 1241 Woodchase on the property owner most affected by this uh proposed Golf Course um I want to make a couple of comments or ask a couple questions and make some comments um I heard some a lot of discussion about the technology behind the light the lighting proposals um so I took a deep dive um earlier this week into the uh into the actual PDF that was uh published on the Union Township site and uh looking at the actual assortment of uh devices being used here um gentleman earlier mentioned that the the poles were going to be 30 ft um on the published uh document here it said they could be anywhere from 37 to 40 ft so there's a little discrepancy in what was presented there I believe so I'm not what what the actual truth is on this point um the other the other thought was during listening to the presentation was um you know short of actually having some sort of field trip where you can actually demo the lights being uh cast down onto the ground I really don't know how you can actually see how what the end effect is going to be until you actually turn the lights on and see so you know um they use computer models but I understand your concern if you're going to have a globe right I mean until you actually see it seeing's believing right so that's my my comment you look at it you're going to see right right so and then given that my property is probably less than probably 2 to 300 ft from where one of those light poles is going to be that's my big concern right there is what am I going to see at night when I when I go outside on my patio am I going to see a glow or am I going to see a glare you'll see a glow but you'll still see a glow right so you know that's where those lights are designed it won't be I don't believe it'll be a glare if it is then something's wrong

and it has to be fixed but yeah so it would be a it would be a glow but it would still be a glow that you wouldn't normally have right so concern is that and plus also the height of the poles that that are being discussed here are they 30t or are they 40t you know am I going to see poles you know could you clarify that like you said you'll know when they turn the lights on yeah exactly so I don't know if it going to be 37 it's 30 30t okay okay well that's that's different yeah okay perfect um a couple other questions and comments um I I heard some s some I mentioned about there will be an HOA covering both the single family and the multi-unit correct okay okay that's good to know um and really one of my other biggest concerns is going to be uh obviously the buffer zone between uh shayer Park and Shaunie uh station they they're proposing I think a 20 foot vegetation buffer and my my question is um because in that inside of that buffer we've got some mature trees some very large 30 ft tall trees and I want to know are they going to preserve some of those trees or are they going to cut them down and replace them with new new vegetation that's one question I have and and we don't know we we do require the buffer uh the the cutting down it would be a lot more expensive for them to cut down a tree they didn't need to cut down so if they don't have to work in that area it's to their advantage to leave that tree there and leave it untouch but I was just wonder for Aesthetics do they want to cut these big gangly trees down as as you approach the new the new development that's can you answer that I don't know because these are very large very large trees I'm sorry we won't do anything nothing okay so and then just a final comment I was listening a lot about uh the hours of operation for the proposed golf

course and I was just wondering given given the the the apparent scarcity of golf courses around the area I'm wondering I think the hours of operation for daytime would probably be just fine for a golf course in this year I think they would do more business than they actually could get you know uh there's probably going to be a waiting line for people to come in so you know the hours of operation in nighttime hours from I don't know say 6:00 to 10 I'm not sure what the what the demand would be for that but I think I think it'd be a lot more palatable for the citizens of the community if they just had daytime hours I think nobody would object to that you now we could make all this lighting talk uh go away so that's just my comment and my concern right thank you very much thank you thank you Mr Campell who's next on the list Brandon web uh so yeah name is Brandon web I live at 1319 Rondo Lane which is the gravel road as you referred to earlier so obviously I am budding right up to this development um quite a few concerns one of them clearly being the change right no one wants the change one of the reasons we moved here years ago with our family was uh the Privacy the peacefulness the quiet the non lights um and obviously that's all set to change so of course we're going to oppose that sort of change I know that we probably don't have a lot of feet to stand on um I have spent some time also in a uh adjoining Village meetings that uh our voices have fallen deaf quite quite loudly deaf um so hopefully we get a better result this time uh but one of my major concerns and I know the water mitigation was talked about um as you

know this is a very hilled area all right we talked about the shaer run the creek that runs through and you had mentioned earlier with where the shiler runs and then some offshoots some tribut Aries I can tell you that there's four houses here also what you talked about with the houses on Bob White they all run down a hill all those run into a tributary that is all of the drainage from all of our houses that go then into the main shut off for tra for shaying from looking at this and from my inexperience I'm looking at the proposed plan the distance showed to be around 15 ft from my property line until the property line of that parcel whether that's five or 10 whatever the one closest on the I suppose that would be West perhaps Southwest in the direction um that's obviously a very short distance between my house and a new proposed house as you showed there you said there's a water retention Basin even in between our two properties I can tell you that the house that it is coming off of is at the top of the hill and it immediately drops heavy downhill don't know where this water retention Basin would possibly be as this property sits on top of a hill and all of that water then as you said is directed to run to that water basin I.E my house it's all directed to run down there so I'm not quite sure where all this water is supposed to go um I can tell you that that land where that tributary is right now especially once we warm up it all floods all of it floods that tributary rises above it all floods that Wetland is been there for probably decades but it is it is absolutely a wet Lane there is a lot of water that needs to find a

home and my major concern is where that is going to go CU I can tell you if that's the proposed distance between my house which of course I don't want there's nowhere for this water to go cuz all of my water needs to go somewhere and that all runs you've just told me to the direction of my house so that is a an obvious major concern let alone the density the traffic that comes along with this right like I I intentionally didn't move next to uh a large business district and now one is coming in with the traffic the people that stop light area off of 32 that backs up as is you add all this to it we're going to add to it let alone just the people who are going to be coming and uh at 10 p.m. Lighting in a residential area you know my my 10-year-old daughter probably won't appreciate that since it's already Beyond her bedtime so it's certainly not something I'm opposed to the growth the residential part while I certainly don't want it that close to my house cuz that's why I moved there to have this buffer that I understand is not my property um but was hoping to keep it peaceful as long as I could uh but the last thing I want is now the residential combined with the commercial aspect on it so uh I know that this is step one and there are many steps to follow uh but you know hopefully we stop here at step one so we don't have to follow with the rest so thank you appreciate it I was can I address one thing real quick you you think that the set the distance between this is your property here that is my property yes so the distance between your property line and this here here is about 150 ft maybe more so that's why I prefaced it so if you take if you take the first house on the plot couldn't tell you the number right here

that one correct that one right there right I can tell you the distance from my property line to that house is is does not leave room and that is that house right there the first property line that would be at the top of a hill and even then it drops immediately there and so you're telling me there's going to be a retention Basin a a pond in between that area where that's what this right here is right there there's that is where the creek is at a low-lying area there's a hill above that so unless they plan on building the house on stilts that's not going to they have to do some major land change theography has to change considerably for that to be a feasible situation because I mean I could pretend like I don't walk in the woods constantly but I do and I can tell you that that is straight down a hill where that house sits as I'm sure the other residents who live on Bob White can tell you it is a straight drop from there so to put a pond there it would have to either be where there's already a creek or you would have to raise the land up yeah it's definitely downhill from the end of the road um as far as that that house is straight downhill right next to that house so as far as the basins I mean again they're at the preliminary stage so um that eventually for any project once they get so far down the road they have to do their more inde depth design and the basins that they're showing now could change in shape and location what we're more concerned about is L the supposed uses in the general configuration if they would have to change their plan sum let's say and the

general let's just work on the premise for a moment not saying it's going to happen that they get approval for 41 units they may have to move the 41 units they may have to drop some units in part because of where the basins need to be and or because of the wetlands right so all that's still up in the air and that's assuming that they even get that far right um but you you so these lines are one foot Contours and you can see these lines here I think those are all onef Footers let me double check that real quick yeah they're one Footers I believe two at the most they are two Footers I'm sorry foot so these these you can kind of see these like lines right here that are zigzagging yes those are two foot Contours and where where you see them all Bunch together is where you have a a even if they're one or two Footers that's where you start seeing the significant grade right but again you know it is preliminary I don't know how much they'd have to answer how much they've really looked at that and like how confident they are about that um but the dist is greater than what you know I mean it's not just 15 ft I mean even from here to here it's more like probably 75 ft because these are 75t W wide Lots so if you if you can eyeball you know put one of those in there I mean it's not it's not 15 ft but you can kind of see where the stream is like what you're talking about you can there's one right there yeah I I can't tell if it runs right there run it runs all so that is all low-lying area that goes straight uphill and Essence where the houses are shooting out the rest is Creek that runs all the way before it

connects where they plowed through the middle of it to run those sewer lines previously so yeah it you know all my years of uh engineering zero uh it it doesn't match what is being shown here so my big question would be I suppose we're not to have the direct conversation but um have you put on your boots and walk back there yeah well I would have seen you in my backyard and uh that's that's not going to work not to not to tell you something you think you know but that doesn't work I wish it did all right thank you for your comments thank Mr Campbell who's next bill Albright all right Mary Lane I'm about quarter mile down the street on the bavia side that is the most screwed up looking subdivision you guys try to cram into a golf course right there that's the wrong place that side you guys worry about Union Township fits right in with you guys this side over here I don't know much about Union Township what you guys do I see look around but I go a lot of meetings on bavia side their answer is always more houses more houses more houses you got all them houses crammed in golf balls flying everywhere the one hole is right down by that major road their HOA might help the guy out that buys the house he ain't going to help my old lady out when she gets hit with a golf ball driving by you go to Top Flight up there in Sharonville they got 100 foot Nets you got electric lines right there they're going to have to have n i mean again we don't have any control over the bavia side but on the on the golf course side yeah well you

ain't got no control over bavia side and I heard a comment before well that the driving range is on bavia side this is a joint venture you got to think of both you go up here by the airport they five to nothing okay 650 homes there's 200 Acres right there that'd be a perfect place for golf course you guys got a failing mall over there you want to light up the whole neighborhood put it where that di all is that's a horrible spot you got Elks run five miles from that place you want to go golfing you want to go golfing go down there to Milford I ain't sure about the new town one but if you notice Elks Ron and one of Milford there ain't subdivisions all around it they're pretty much off on their own so instead of the the Open golf course you'd rather see the apartment buildings the four three four I see apartment buildings you're trying that's a nine hole golf right there and then you're cramming a subdivision and on top of it that's current zone for multif family it could be all multi multif family apartment buildings the Tavy side right here it's a joint venture the Tav side right there you got one Bridge one way in one way out right down here at Olive Branch and 74 is that one Bridge about three times a year that Creek gets all the way up to that bridge if it ever goes over that bridge they're screwed if you ever have a wreck on that bridge then people are screwed all these subdivisions I go to about bav you have two ways in two ways out that's a lot of homes you got right there one way in one way out heaven forbid there's a car wreck at the end of that somebody needs assistance in the back of it they're screwed you want a subdivision connect them two ways in two ways out you want a golf course make it a golf course that's a piss poor idea right there that's just my opinion all right thank you Kyla

hucker hello ker I live on it's over near the 41 homes um this hasn't brought up so I don't know if I'm this is my first time coming um when it comes to bavia there's a lot of talk about tiffs craz Pilots are these buildings taking tax money from other things I don't understand how they work no I know California had tiffs they went to court they were you know unconstitutional or whatever the word is and then they revamped it and called it a SE a pray CRA something like that is any of this tied up in tiffs Pilots PR jeds any of that no either side that you know of I know you can't speak for bavia side but not on the Union Township side in the joint venture and being in your um that's not a joint not a joint venture but do you have any idea what's going on with that that you can share or is that illegal no we just have no regulatory authority over what happens in understand that I was just wondering if you knew if their part but I'll move on so the only the only thing I can tell you about like we had a pre-application meeting at the same time with bavia Township Representatives with the applicants Representatives I actually talked today with the Planning and Zoning uh director at bavia their process is different than ours because we are more of a limited home rulle Township and so our process doesn't go through the county plan commission where they have to run things to the county plan commission first and then it goes through the same process that we're going through so their director hasn't got into like the deep in end of like analysis for everything because they're

waiting for the county to get through its part first and have various departments indicate any questions comments concerns or whatever his only main comment with his other staff person that's looked at it so far is that they would like for the attached single family area that starts in Union Township ends up in matavia they would like the front yard setback to be increased and to offset that to reduce the rear yard setbacks that was really the only comment he he made to me he said that you know some of the other things that we've identified in our staff report they may end up identifying but they're they haven't gotten into the deep analysis yet because they're still waiting for the county to get finish with its work there and I will preface I'm not negative towards this because it's not Industrial in my backyard it's not hundreds and hundreds of well there are hundreds and hundreds but not you know it's much smaller smaller than like you said it could have been um you know again I grew up on the North side of this property and I now live on the west side of this property so um you know and what Mr web said as far as getting back there um is shayer run a subdivision or is that a did they rename the creek uh the creek is Winding Creek the the reason I was calling it shayer run is because that's what the Soil and Water Conservation District guy was calling it I don't know it may have other names as well I've heard another name besides the one you just mentioned as well um what was the other part of what you were asking I don't remember sorry um oh I wondered why the creek name was changed did it have anything to do with the legality of what was allowed so I don't like I said the main Creek my understanding was called shayer run that the offshoots might be called something else or maybe there's more than one name

for Creek I mean that does happen sometimes the subdivision that is to the South West is also shayer crossing the shiler run and shaer Crossing maybe a shiler creek somewhere y okay um let's see um so I'm hearing they're not really tearing down trees that aren't needed to be tore down because I looked at some of the plants that they were putting in and uh I I'll leave that alone um traffic and lighting and I'm here on behalf of my parents who own the Gattis residence that's right across from Cemetery Road they renamed stonick Olive stonick Olive Branch Road to Cemetery Road they're in that cross right there above the blue side Arrow um are they going to be going in I know the are they coming in where the okay so they're intersection is they're over here like yes that is them yep I see them so it looks like it's coming in right where the light is now is that true the street into the golf course and the subdivision yeah I think I think the signal I think it's right there um let me look here my mom their property neighbor Nicholls yeah the signal right here so it's kind of it's not quite but it's kind of an offset um intersection veryy close all right I mean by the time they flare it out they may make it an offset intersection and as far as the lighting

if you're not familiar the new rumpy dump that they put on that new interchange I can see those lights and the traffic light from down there all the way up here to minks Drive where's that at uh you keep calling it I think you're calling it Rondo but it's actually mink is great here mixes there yeah that's it yes I thought you referred to that as Rondo is this one here yes I live in the one with the l-shape and I can see it's you know probably not right now with the trees and I do it because it's uh winter time oh are you talking about the new recycling place yes okay I call the dump sorry um but once that vegetation is gone it does change what you see and I understand it's not my property and I I think this is a lovely plan compared to what it could have been uh the drainage does really concern me um that's bavia Township I guess my parents have not gotten a letter from them or they doing in time with you guys because my parents have not received a letter about needings for them are you guys working in the same time frame I noted earlier we're ahead of them because they are running things to the county okay so when I don't know how much of a lag there's going to be but there is a difference between when they're going to have their meetings and when we have our meetings we we're ahead of them just because we're a limited home rule we don't have to run things through the county so I don't know what their notification process is if it's just the adjoins or if they go out beyond that we notify everybody who ad joins the property plus 200 ft so they should be sending their notice out before the meeting I don't they'll have to follow whatever is in their the code and then they'll be they'll have to put it in the newspaper of course and I they I don't know if they post it on the website as well and did I does the state did I read that you all got permission from the state that

you guys set your own tiffs and jeds that it doesn't have to have approval from the state level is that are you they still have to be submitted to the state but I mean we we can create our own tiffs and jeds unlike the Tavia Township and some of the other ones or is this I think they follow the same process but we're not this project is not part of a tip Jed CRA or anything like that on the Union Township side I don't know I've not heard of anything about the bavia side including any of that all right I guess that was it my drain drainage is an issue lighting is an extreme issue we don't have lights we have all Sensor Lights some of our neighbors do it's uh it's just more conducive to I mean I don't know where you all look like um anyway I think it could be a nice plan I am concerned about drainage and that topography because they said it's beautiful it was it's it's incredible and so um you know I was blessed to raise and wander those from Mr niichel and my son as well um and now and so we're just very grateful and whatever they do just make it not hurt there's so much planning to cater to new people which is great but sometimes when you get into private developments you kind kind to separate people because we have old we don't want to verse new no we constantly keep that in mind we we we look at that very very carefully and you know my old home which I love I don't want my taxes to go up because someone else build a

$400,000 home they should be separate tax separate I mean I don't think my neighbors value I know it affects them I don't I can't find the right words I apologize so I will end this so thanks for listen thank you very much Mr Campbell who's next that's the last sheet we've uh received thus far and no sorry your time we have limited time and I'm sorry parking how many parking you got the parking that each each of those units have their own [Music] driveways all right all right this Prime we are closing the uh [Applause] uh I'm Sorry Miss H one question yes please step up um if it lights out 10 does that mean the golf cart closes at 10 or the last people are going to be able to hit the t's at 10 cuz 8 to8 would be the proposal is that it would stop at 10 lights would be at at 10 okay so everybody would have to be off and gone correct I do prefer an 8 to8 thank you thank you thank you all right this time we're going to close the uh the meeting to uh uh from public participation to private participation you anyone here is welcome to to listen and observe uh but please refrain from comment plan all right uh Mr outrage what's your uh opinions and preferences on this plan um I would say uh it's a very difficult

site to work with all of the different easements and the creek and everything um one thing I want to note around the lots to the um the 41 Lots the the lots that front shaie rail um it is a little weird to me that they are different widths on the same street so you have the same you have the 75 ones that front the the shayer Park Subdivision proportion and then you go to 55 right across the street um I think that's a little odd that they're staggered like that and a lot of subdivision plans that we've approved in the township they're uniform unless they're on a curve um I kind of would prefer those lots um 6 through 10 and 35 through 37 to be the 75 as well um and the rest are fine um that's just the one comment I had on that um does the a quick question regarding the golf course is that subjected to the 25 foot stream buffer or is that only for developments and laws no that would that would be applicable if if in uh implemented throughout the entire stream okay that so cuz yeah I noticed a lot of the golf course holes and things like that go they kind of Criss-Cross the stream and all of that um so I mean I I am a little concerned about you know fertilizer and other kinds of runoff into the stream specifically from the golf course because all that's wooded right now and then I were making it Turf and other stuff so I I would appreciate yeah if that that 25t um buffer is along the creek if we're going to do if the golf course proceeds with that obviously um I don't have twoo many I don't have any comments aside from dumpster placements and things like

that regarding the the condominium units on the other side um and then again that one point with regards to the clubhouse and fire uh access which we don't really have much authority over on that but um I'd be interested to know kind of how that's resolved since that turnaround where the clubhouse is for the wee parking there seems really tight for a fire truck and it seems weird to have to spray across the creek if there is something with the clubhouse so I did not get all of the updated plans that they mentioned were sent I don't have the updated photometric plan I was looking for it in my email cuz they said they sent it in the last day or so I don't I didn't see it it may have been too big it may have got rejected I don't I don't know what happened but on this slide I do have the new configuration and what they did originally this ENT in bavia townships you know was the only way in and it stopped they added a way out so this is going to be a one way in and a one way out and it's going to be moving from west to east okay so that took care of the you know how do we get the fire truck in and out situation that we were looking at gotcha thank you and then yeah um I guess the wet lenss uh and the basements with regards to the um the market or I forget the Market Street I think was what the the other ones for the 55t Lots product was you mentioned that there was going to be basements there on those um a lot of those Parcels are Wetland so I don't know how that would be waiting to hear how that turns out right I think that the these plans could be significantly adjusted based on determination regarding Wetlands got it that's all comments I have Mr mccormic that that additional Ingress and egress that one way for fire is that going to be keyed or what what's the situation with that uh it'll be one

way in and one way out is my understanding okay thank you and um really that was because of the fire access more than anything else okay I thank you for clarifying Mr Campbell your thoughts uh it's an interesting situation and of course I think what we have to do is contrast this proposal to plan development and concessions that are being made versus what would happen with the current zoning of R3 correct uh which grants the township and the zoning department considerably less oversight regarding its use um I am I I took from the the 2030 plan regarding U this particular Corridor something that gave me a slight pause is that U specifically for this Corridor and it it's not directly applicable but it does discourage the use of retail oriented uses and a golf course isn't strictly speaking it's not truly retail but it's kind of a spirit balance between retail and Recreation right it's a it's the spirit of the concept versus the letter of the concept by the letter of the concept isn't essentially retail it you know it could have a commercial component but it's not retail which is more specific and it certainly does fit Recreation which does fit within um which does fit the 2030 plan for this cor cour so that's what I've been grappling with obviously there are traffic concerns but we can't do much about that unless you know the county says it's too much traffic we we can't do it and the county hasn't said that water

retention gener it should get better and if it doesn't get better it there should be CS to mitigate that under PD and we've got a lot less impervious surface with this plan and we would otherwise that's true yeah if it remained R3 and then I I do think the lighting is a concern but we're doing just about all we can to mitigate that plus we can't really see it exactly unless Mr mccor can can illuminate this uh no pun intended um or perhaps the uh the applicant could contribute to that but they they did make a reference to because of the Topography of the land some of these lights are going to be well below you know it's not all level so it will the topography um provided it remains somewhat as it is should be uh should assist in in not seeing it or it being less of a a nuisance that it possibly could be to to neighbors but those are sort of my initial thoughts from uh all right what we've heard Mr Wang your thoughts so I I went back to the property couldn't walk it as much as I'd like to because of the snow and the mud right now well it's not so much mud today but I look at all of these as a resident first when I'm looking at it and I most of the concerns of the residents are things I was thinking about when I was considering this plan the lighting definitely I I live on rumpy road I have terrible light pollution because of the Escape mall area um so I understand it uh sometimes we can even see stars not very often um the drainage is a big one but again that's all that has to be mitigated before they can proceed with this

and you know I would love to see a reversal where we actually see that kind of stuff before it comes to us if they've done drainage plans Road studies but it's just not the way the system works uh one thing I did have that uh so Brian florco who sent that letter to you he's an acquaintance of mine and he's been picking my brain on it I actually went over and went into his yard um he's on uh if you look at the map he ISD yeah he's right behind lot three of the designers um one of the things I was looking at is why can't that why can't that all be pushed forward so we don't have to worry about that setback because if you read on that there's it says no patios no decks all anybody that has a backyard is going to do something ultimately um so it seems to me that so that we're not dealing with that as a violation down the road that that property should be pushed all of that should just be moved forward another 10 15 ft to the north so that those backyards have enough room that they could put a small patio small deck something back there you're going to have fire pits back there you're going to have that stuff people just do that U we we all know we all live in residential areas and we know our neighbors don't always follow the rules so I just I was wondering why that just couldn't be pushed back a little bit more or the houses you know I mean you're not talking a whole lot of space um so that that was a concern looking at it uh and that if you go back in that area right there there is a pretty big dip behind that so again that's all going to have to be uh worked on the hours of operation that was an issue I had with the 10 o00 I you know I understand that there you know

they don't believe there's going to be a lot of pollution from this but still I 10:00 is pushing it for me I mean I'd be much more comfortable with you know 8309 o' last round goes out at you know whatever time that would be 7:30 um so or what on the N depends on who's playing the nin ble um the traffic concerns are legitimate um the construction hazards are legitimate but again those are the things you look at and it could be much much worse than what this plan's calling for um do you know roughly how many units if they did all multif family back there on that size property with the density we allow roughly how many units would go in if they just made that a condo division no because really you're talking about how much are they willing to invest in grading and then what is going to happen still yet with that mitigation area because and then in other cases if they have to do mitigation that might mean they want to push the numbers up even higher so it's kind of a hard thing to answer because it just be it would be marketly more though you can't you can't fully use that property like you could if it didn't have an electrical easement on it and like you would if it didn't have the possible Wetland area and also the streams so there's there's definitely things that inhibit full buildout on that property and just real quick while I'm going over that so in answer to the rear setback issue that you brought up there are other areas where they have established a preservation and maintenance area there's one on Mount Carmel um Tabasco road that were I don't know what the name of the homes are they're pretty nice they run into um Anderson Township and I ran across that scenario where they established one in the lots that back the rear the rear of the Lots from

Old 74 back up into the subdivision and the subdivision whenever they set it up they put in a preservation area that was very similar to what we're talking about here it's really more of an Enforcement issue and I I look at it in the same sense like if you're supposed to have a 25 foot setback if somebody put something that's not supposed to be there we notify them and tell them they can't do it but we preemptively tell them when they come in you can't do it so I mean originally they were looking at 15 and we were trying to get it further away so it got pushed to 20 I don't know how much the like give they have to keep moving it I just know that we've been trying to get it to be more um now an example of a fire pit that's not a permanent Improvement necessarily that we would even permit so that doesn't count but again if that's an area to be preserved and that's how I would like to see the area set up that you're not seeing around these lots that are single family because they identified on some of the other pages of Green Space we wanted that to be acknowledged that it would be green space to be preserved and maintained basically in perpetuity because because they're using that as part of their calculation right that we're going to preserve this so to do that they really need to establish like an easement area that will allow that to remain that way and then no matter what happens to the golf course at least that area stays the same more than likely with those preservation areas if the golf course doesn't work out they're not going to be able to use the rest of that property to any significant degree because whatever is left is going to either be within that a lot of what the golf course is in that electrical e right right so if you take out what's in the El they can't do anything in there anyways really so what's outside of that is right next to a hillsider stream I don't know that you could do a whole lot there yeah right right yeah but with those other areas that we're not seeing because and and I'd have to pull it out maybe I can show you on this

other I have it on um this drive I can hopefully pull it up and show you that that other Green Space is going to need to be the same thing that that 20 foot area is going to be which is a protected area Okay um let me pull that up if I can get it here on a positive note I do think that having the golf course will incre you know keep those property values High uh the neighborhoods that I've been in I used to be a Golf R I'm no longer but most of the time the homes near these golf courses are are well-kept and pretty expensive I'd like to see they they cut off maybe at 9:00 because you're going to M around you're luy you get another 10 and the other thing is I'm concerned about the lighting but I know they're going to wind up adjusting him like some way to make it work right this is your this is the plan you so the dark Greener areas are the areas to be preserved open space and perpetuity or whatever then that lighter green really is the area of the golf course and then the cross-hatched area in bavia is the proposed driving rain okay but just like what we're talking about that 20 foot area here that's really to me the same as these right here we don't want any improvements in there either if the purpose is to really

maintain it preserve it think it's a good plan if I was living next to this this is much preferred over them coming in and building nothing but multif family on here to me um you know so now I will say just because we noted it earlier like for example the gentleman there at the end of Rondo indicated that um you know there's some grading there I mean it's it's not 15 feet away from the house it's probably more like 75 80ish feet so there's still some clearing grading work that would be done in those areas but once that work is done it would be restorative right and then they wouldn't be out there making improvements cutting stuff down they they're probably only going to take down what they really have to take down and most that's going to be for necessary grading to accomplish the home sites and also the storm water features and so fire department has signed off basically on the rough plan yeah that's all I have Bill do you have anything I'm I'm for lower my time cut off on the lights at 9 o' and all right my uh my take on it is I'm I do think this is a good a good plan uh but I am adamant and I can't support a motion to approve without the inclusion of limiting the golf course hours to daylight hours 1 hour after sunrise R to 1 hour before sunset uh no lighting uh and that's the only thing that I would agree to uh if anyone else has and I don't know I've heard some additional items if you have

other motion items you want to include please write them up and we'll include them in the motion uh the the lot width uh you have a concern about the lot width and we also had a concern about the setback on the adjacent lots to the existing do we need to include that I I heard from the developer that they were going to push those lots those two lots back so they matched yeah you can I mean otherwise I think we had two different pieces of information graphically it was shown one way on one drawing and and table and then graphically in like on this page it's not it doesn't match so you can either add it in there or you can have us take care of it we know we Now understand the intent to address it so you can take care of this administrative function yeah and that's Lots one and 41 yes yeah I think so so if everyone could write up the uh what you know I have written up an additional I I would want all of the modifications noted in the staff report and in addition I have the one that I would include uh that limits the hour of operation to golf course and I would include the driving range if it was under our jurisdiction but it's not uh so I would limit the hours of operation to the golf course between uh 1 hour after Sunrise to 1 hour before sunset uh as the due to the consideration of the uh residential nature of the surrounding area and Rob if you have a motion addition uh touching on the points you had if you want to write that up we'll include that that statement as one of the Motions as far as the backyard set correct going to write up the verage for that then I'll include it in the motion and then we you know once I read the motion off uh with all the additions

we can discuss those and see if everybody's in agreement with those and same for you Daniel do you have anything that you want to add as a uh as a motion addition please write it up and I wanted to make sure that we that whatever happens Lots one and 41 but it sounds like administratively they're going to take care of that Mr outrage is going to talk about Lots number 6 through 10 I believe um so I believe that in hours of operation we've had a few different things band new about so I think that's I mean is every is everyone on board with the hour after sun sunrise to one hour before Sunset I mean that eliminates the lights eliminates a lot of the problems with and I don't see the need to operate it Beyond those hours it just doesn't make sense to me and and considering the neighborhood we don't need to add glowing lights uh back in that area it's it's it's beautiful what they've designed I just don't see the advantage uh and and I'm not willing to participate in the experiment of whether this is a good idea or not I just don't see the need for it to operate Beyond those hours those daylight hours and those daylight hours will fluctuate uh so rather than a fixed time based on the time of year you know sunrise and sunet are set you know are are easily achievable we've got a lot of parks in the area that are open from those hours uh and that can easily be followed the squares that indicate the homes on these Lots those are buildable area Okay so that's the buildable area the homes though would be relative to in size to what we're seeing on uh bobw on the Lots the back end I would assume it'll be relatively close yeah okay yeah because when I look at you know when I look at it the way it is here it's like wow that's really packed in there yeah that box is the buildable where it is kind of a little misleading okay other thing I was going to mention is the repairi and buffer that's on here that we added that was not originally Quantified in the staff report because

we didn't have the information so that would be the other item to consider would be that underlying statement right there okay I I'm okay understanding that because what I was looking at was that they actually were going to push the structures all the way that far back which if you look at that and you're standing on the you know on Bob White those neighbors it looks like the house is right on top of them okay but if it's just the buildable area and the houses are going to be Sim based on square footage that I was reading should be similar to the size of homes that are already adjacent then it should be all right all right so you don't have an addition notion I don't think so okay I mean additional modification no I don't want to make it too difficult Daniel do you have a modification just to follow up on what Mr McCormack was saying that what there's an additional staff comment that looks to be to uh recommended modification number four which is underlined so we we need to include it it says uh staff recommends a vegetative barrier of 25 ft from the top of the stream Bank of shayer run on both sides of the creek based on preliminary feedback from County Soil and Water Conservation Representatives so you're saying this is is not part of the staff report it is it is not uh this is Mr pmic that that underlying line is not in this version so if we were to reference this and incorporate those recommendations into a motion that specifically needs to be added yeah before the staff report before we get received feedback from The Soil and Water contact I had put in there some general language about stream setback or preparan Corridor after I talked to him is when I added this into the PowerPoint so I can reference staff recommendations just as a plural and

staff recommendations would include all of this yeah as presented as staff recommendations as presented yeah just that's good and I don't want to miss out on that via technicality that's when I get to that um when I finish with my modifications I'm just going to have you read out your [Applause] modification all right I think uh if there are no other modifications other than Mr outr and myself then I'm ready to make a a motion you have yours prepared yes okay all right regarding case 1-25 5-z applicant me Land Development LLC parcel 37313 e062 the zoning commission finds that the submitted PD application and zone change request is consistent with the Horizon 2030 land use plan but does not meet all of the plan development application requirements of a PD District plan therefore this commission recommends a submitted plan be approved contingent upon adherence to the noted modifications as specified in this motion all required supplement Al information and plan modifications must

be completed and submitted to the planning director no later than one week prior to the trustees hearing of this case we have one finding of fact and that's the sample Focus area synopsis on the focus area is the Olive Branch ston lck Corridor the subject property is located within the Olive Branch stonel Corridor which is a transitional cor Corridor with natural features such as Hills slopes and streams this area is ideal for mixed use residential and Commercial development depending on its position relative to State Route 32 plan development zoning is the preferred development method for this Corridor the modifications are as follows all recommended staff modifications as presented in this meeting are included in this Motion in addition considering the residential nature of the area surrounding the proposed development operational hours of the golf course shall be limited to daylight hours only specifically from 1 hour after Sunrise to 1 hour before sunset Mr out you have one additional modification yes Lots 1 through1 and 35 through 41 presented in the site plan fronting Shaunie Trail are recommended to have 75t lot Frontage and that concludes our motion completes our motion do we have a second I second it Mr Shannon second it all right now we will take time to discuss any changes to the uh any any concerns that any of the staff or uh commission members have regarding the uh the modifications we've set forth I have not camel Mr all right we are all in an agreement Mr McCormack could you please call rooll yes Mr yes yes yes yes yes so um I will have to obviously

talk about proceeding I haveing to proceed to the trust I will have to figure out what that time frame is to be and if they oh we don't have a definite time oh no because the February 25th they moved back to meeting twice when they moved it back the second time the understand all rights all right all right I think that concludes our business does anyone else have anything administratively that they would like to address I move to adjourn I'll second all right we have a motion to adjourn and a second motion carried meeting adjourned thank you for your participation tonight it just seemed weird

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