Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

I think it's going to be just us mice tonight, but we'll go ahead 7 o'clock. We'll go ahead and call the meeting to order. We'll start with the pledge of allegiance as usual. Pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all for all. Okay. So, this is the October regular meeting of the Union Township Planning Commission and we just had pledge of allegiance. So, I'll ask for the roll call, please. Quito here. Bradshaw here. Brown here. L here. Oliver here. Shingles here.

Baron here. Kayen McDonald. Excuse me. Okay. Thank you. Um, next item is approval of the agenda. So, you have tonight's agenda in your packet. There's a couple has three new business items. Uh, and u the usual items. Is there any anything else that anyone's aware of that needs to be on tonight's agenda? Any issues with tonight's agenda? If not, we can have a motion to approve the agenda. So moved. Second.

Uh motion by Bradshaw, second by shingles to approve the agenda as prepared. Any further discussion? All in favor, please say I. I. I. Any opposed? Okay. So, agenda was approved, so we're allowed to proceed with the meeting. Um, next item is approval of the minutes. So, we last met on September 16th. That was our regular meeting for last month. Are there any corrections to the September 16th minutes?

Aren't you going to say it? Oh, want me to say it? I would. Okay. Okay. Uh for the roll call vote of the sacred heart uh preliminary site plan u I am not in the roll call vote recognize this.

Okay. So there was one correction small correction but one correction to the September 16th minutes. Are there any other corrections? If not, we can have a motion to approve the corrected September 16th minutes. So moved. Seconded.

Okay. Which was was that over or so so? So motion by over, second by lap to approve the corrected September 16th minutes. Any discussion? All in favor, please say I. I. I. Any opposed? Okay. So, minutes are approved. Uh, next section of the meeting is correspondence, board reports, and presentations. As usual, we start at the top with Commissioner Thering. Updates from board of trustees.

Thank you, sir. Um, geez, it seems like it's been a year since I've done this for for whatever reason. Uh looking at my notes for the 9:24 uh meeting, uh what I have noted is we had our second reading and adoption of the proposed park ordinance update. I hope my information is accurate there. Um for the 104 meeting uh we set the public hearing for the 2026 budget to be held tomorrow and we had an approval of early voting of the early voting agreement for election services between city of Mount Pleasant and Union Township. details. If you want de detailed details as to who's actually, you know, the pecking order of things, um, it's it's on our it's in our agenda packet for the 22nd.

Is that meaning that the early voting will continue to be Union Township together with the city of Mount Pleasant? Yes, correct. Okay. Will it continue to be at CMU? Correct.

Okay. Any other any questions for Commissioner Thering on trustees related items? Okay. If not, I think we're good to go. Thank you. Um, Commissioner McDonald's not here, but I understand that the ZBA will be meeting in November because I saw they have at least two items that were published in the paper recently. I think one of them is directly as a result of us but anything to say about that or

that that is correct. They will have a a hearing the first Wednesday in in November. And uh one of the items will be the Sacred Heart variance that that you gave direction on. And the other one is related to a project over on River Road that where gentleman wants to expand a building that would require substantial variance for that additional accessory building that they'd like to expand that require substantial variance to to be approved.

Okay. Any questions from commissioners on that? Okay. Next item is community and economic development monthly report. Uh the report was uh at the end of the electronic version of your packet, but it was not included in the mailed out packet, but you have a copy of it on your desk here. Uh, are there any questions from commissioners on any items in the monthly report? Okay, hearing none, we can move on. But if you do have any questions on those, feel free to direct them to Rodney and they can be they can get answered. Um, any other reports or correspondence that anyone is aware of that needs to come before us? Okay, then we'll move on to the first public comment of the meeting. This is the uh public comment that is restricted to items that are not on tonight's agenda. There's any member of the public who would like to address the planning commission on an item that is not on tonight's agenda, they're welcome to do so at this time. Uh if you're in the room, come to the podium, give us your name and address for the minutes. If

you're online, make your presence known and we'll make arrangements for you to speak. Uh we ask you to limit your comments to three minutes. This public comments open at 7:07. I have a couple people, but neither are there's actually people in the room. There are

Okay. So, we don't have live audience members tonight. They're live, too. But we don't have in-person audience members, but we have uh we have persons in the uh the electronic room. All right. Um Okay. So, they haven't indicated that they wish to speak at this point. So, we'll go ahead and close this public comment at 7:08. And we do have a an an unrestricted public comment towards the end of the meeting. So we have three new business items. The first one is a discussion item. The what's being labeled as the tiny home village correspondence which includes a letter from the uh kind of leader of that project and then a bunch of supporting letters. So we'll let uh Rodney introduce this topic and then we'll have our discussion. All right. Well, thank you. Um, as you, as we said, you have before you a collection of correspondence has also been shared with the board of trustees at at the request of the folks that turned it in. Um, this project, if you recall, is is a proposal for for supportive housing for the homeless. that uh at least at this point has been has been proposed for for land down Isabel Road just north of Bluegrass Road uh essentially behind the Hunter's L house uh shopping center uh to the north of that. Um this property that they they have been looking at uh is it was originally designed as an office park, a medical office park. Only one building was built. Uh but they did put roads in uh and some parking lots and such that just never never completed development and it's been sitting uh uh vacant

essentially for for quite a number of years to for the one the one building. Uh the uh I'm not aware that that the land has been purchased by by folks involved with Maslo's village. Uh but uh I understand that there is some interest there, whatever that may be, some correspondence back and forth in the current buildings. Uh this uh as said this is a project that involves tiny homes. Um uh the uh which is something new for the township. the idea of having individual homes for for folks that are are coming out of homelessness kind of creating a transitional situation where they can move from from homelessness to into this transitional housing have support on on the site. That's the idea as I understand it and eventually move into a more permanent housing circumstance. Uh it is uh it is something that that folks that are pursuing this indicate there's a need. Certainly there is an challenge with homelessness in the county. I've heard numbers around 500 u homeless folks in the county. Obviously that's not an easy number to to uh to to uh to to count. Uh it's not a population that's easy to count but but it certainly sounds like a number that could be accurate. Uh at this point we we have spent several years having conversations with Amanda Break the person who wrote the cover letter u and has been kind of uh pursu been kind of as you said the leader of pursuing this. We've had several years of conversations uh between staff and and Amanda made a break and and a committee that she has an ad hoc committee that she has working on this project. Um you have uh had one presentation from her I believe was earlier this year uh where she gave you an update and talked in significant detail about the project

uh prior there was a prior uh presentation that was given to the board earlier on uh but I think at the time this is what 2022 or 2023 uh I shared with you the video of that presentation u so this has been ongoing for some time uh we we had uh multiple meetings with with man break I've met with her and her committee she we've met here uh just as we would with any potential developer looking at a project uh answering questions and such about about this uh item one of the key answers that we've given is that this property is not zoned for for the use the property they're interested in is zone B5 which is a business district u and uh there is no zoning really that that where all of the things they would like to do. They all fit in into one zoning district classification. So, it's not as if we could reszone it multiple family or two family or or some other residential zoning because they they do want to have uh supportive elements that that require more of an office arrangement uh that counseling offices and and uh and other other elements maybe more of a business type zoning to to support this. And then even within the the project they have talked about some things that would happen within the development that would not be consistent with any of our residential districts. So one of the things that we have shared uh pretty consistently all the way through the process is that we do have in our zodia ordinance uh plan unit development regulation. PUD or plan unit development is is an optional way to develop property. It essentially combines reszoning of the land with a a conceptual development plan. And uh what happens with PUD is that that if if that PUD that plan new development is approved and this

requires both uh recommend a hearing and recommendation from this body and ultimately action from the board of trustees because it is a reson. If it were to be approved then that conceptual development plan becomes the zoning of the property. So all the details for what that zoning will be, the land uses that'll be allowed, the the layout of things, what what pieces will be where, uh all the all those activ any future activities, anything they may have multiple phases. Well, any future activities that they would like to have in phase two or phase three, those are all shown on that plan. And that then becomes the the zoning of the property. And from there, they simply go through site plan approval for each phase of the development that they would like to pursue. Uh we've told them that that that is the process to follow. The plans of development regulations and ordinance are very flexible. Uh they they create opportunities for for uh for us to to look at a a project that is innovative, that is unique, that doesn't fit neatly into into the zoning categories. Uh but nonetheless may be a benefit both to the township and to the community and as well as of course to the development team. Uh so it it is it is the the vehicle to to pursue this project. Uh and uh and the flexibility elements uh were built into it to really not necessarily this project in mind but projects like this in mind u and to give them a vehicle to move forward with. We have indicated to them that that uh it's not that difficult to put a plan together that will meet the requirements for a plan new development. This is not a fully engineered site plan. This is truly a conceptual development plan. So, we're not expecting all the engineering details to be worked out. They will need to survey the property and they will have to show things accurately. But, this is a plan that can be put together relatively inexpensively. And it is our understanding that that they've been working with civil engineers and

surveyors and and they may even have that plan. uh that some of the letters talk about some if you read through the letters some of them seem to speak to that they've seen a plan. We have not staff has not seen a plan other than some earlier kind of you might say napkin sketches very early sketches um and what you've seen with the the presentations we've received but uh that PUD is really the path for this uh to pursue u they as said they've not submitted an application although again if you read through these letters it suggests they have because quite a number of the letters invite us to approve the resoning application that that they the writer of the thinks they they submitted they've never provided anything to the township uh to uh for us to move forward or some kind of application review. Uh the uh the the letter from uh from Amanda Break it doesn't come right out and say, but it kind of alludes to uh a desire for the township to take the step to to change the zoning. Um, and I think at least one or two of the interior letters uh eludes that idea of instead create for us asking for us to create a zoning district or a zoning uh classification that would allow this project to move forward uh by right essentially with site plan approval. U that isn't that is an option and frankly the they also have that option. they they if they wish to amend our ordinance there is an application for that they as we have seen uh where we had the amendments related to solar energy where where folks that want were interested projects actually submitted a request and provided the the initial text of an amendment u so that is also an option for them if they wish to try to amend

our ordinance to put their project into the ordinance they could pursue that I I don't recommend it u it's really is not necessary and and I think it would actually be far more complex for them to accomplish than than going through the planning and development process but that is also an option but essentially that is where we are at the moment uh we have a lot of time answering questions a lot of discussion u there there certainly been uh information provided at every level uh the I will note just kind of for the record that Amanda Break's letter several times suggests that that uh staff has told her no or told her that that uh that would not work or or essentially given a definitive don't do that answer. We don't actually do that. That's not our role as as staff for to to say don't do that. As uh Peter can attest and as any any person that's sat with us in a development meeting uh can attest, we we sometimes will say that might be a a big hill to climb. you might have some challenges to to get there if you want to go that direction. Uh we this might be a smoother and easier path, but but we do not tell people no at at this level when we're talking about concepts. So when folks are kicking the tires, asking questions, we don't say no, thou shalt not do that because that's not our role. Our role is to provide information, give direction uh as to what the ordinance options are, but it certainly is never to say don't do that. Um the uh as said we we might tell them that it a high hill to climb, but we're not we're not going to simply say no because it is possible for somebody to climb that hill to find a path and figure out how to to structure a proposal that actually might get approved even if it is a big hill. Um,

so with that in mind, I uh just want to off open offer this to you that to uh be able to answer any questions you may have about what you read. Um, answer any questions about where we are with this project. I'd hoped Amanda Break might come tonight. I did invite her. Uh, that actually may be one that's on online. I I didn't see who was online, but um so she may comment later, but uh anyway, I would basically open to you and and give you that update and and offer to answer any questions you may have about this.

Okay. Thank you. Um just a couple things that jumped out at me. Um, my reading of this is that is that one of her big concerns is that the the requirements for building the structures, the the the tiny homes was going to be more expensive than what they could afford in particular in relation to uh, you know, six-foot foundations versus building them on slabs. Where is that coming from? Is it true? and how would they work around that?

Yeah, thank you. There is no requirement for a 6ft foundation. It does not exist. Uh in Michigan, the the uh typical depth for a foundation is 42 inches. That gets you below that's the frost depth or the the recognized depth where you're below the frost level in in the winter time. And that's the whole point of the foundation is you get below frost depth so you do not get into issues with seasonal heaving ups and downs that come as as ground freezes and thaws and freezes and thaws. Uh when u uh the the the question of what what these buildings would require really is nothing different than any other residence would require. Uh these these homes are proposed are to have utilities, water, sewer, electric. Uh one of the things that that we did uh indicate early on to uh to the folks as we were talking to Amanda Break and the rest of the team was that uh we we would want to see individual bathrooms and kitchen sink kind of thing. We'd like to have those in the units. uh toilet and sink kind of set up at the very very least because uh this is a we we're in a four-season country. Uh the winters are long and cold and uh one of the things they had been talking about was having communal bathrooms where where the unit the the housing unit would only essentially be a bedroom u and that anybody that needed to go bathroom would walk across the way to the communal bathroom. And uh the answer to that from the township side and discussions uh was that uh that didn't make sense in our climate. Uh and all the examples that they were showing where that worked were in Texas and Arizona, you know, in much much warmer climates than than we're

talking about here. U and so what we what we directed with regards to this was each unit should have at the very least its own toilet and sink. Uh so those facilities are available in order to have utilities in that space. you can't have a circumstance where where the the the water to sewer pipes are not moving but the building is heaving up and down with changes in the you know the seasons and and if you if you've ever if you've ever uh had a case where you have a have a a deck that you may have constructed with not on a foundation just sort of floating and and but set up against your house you'll find that that deck is has different levels that during the year it can it can be up and down a little bit because the house is not moving. The house is on a firm foundation. It's below the frost depth, but that deck adjusts essentially as as ground heaves and and and subsides. U so with these buildings, they need to be on a firm foundation in order to so that they the building and the pipe plumbing are all working together. They're not moving separately, which of course would simply damage the plumbing. So with that in mind, we we did indicate that they that they would need to get a foundation, but nobody requires a six foot foundation. They simply maybe somewhere in Canada, I don't know, but the frost depth here is 42 in.

Okay. But you are saying that because in a lot of parts of the country, houses are built on slabs. But you're saying if you did that here, it wouldn't be stable because of the freeze and thaw. Well, all we're all we're saying is that they essentially need to be treated the same as any other single family home. So whatever the building code allows for foundations for single family homes, we're simply saying that this is what they should do here. Yeah. They they've they've referred to this as temporary housing several times in over the years. Uh but this is really permanent development. And the idea for these units is that they will be there. you defin it's not something where somebody put it there and two years later it's going to be tossed out

and so these these do need to be set properly proper foundations and with proper utility support for them okay but those are and just to clarify I don't want to be the only person speaking here but what you just said what you just went through is that is that is that the law or is that uh township ship staff as professionals exercising judgments to to tell people what's appropriate, what's not appropriate.

It's a great question. So, I'm not a building official. Uh I can't speak to to the the law of the state construction code. Uh all all that we've really said is that it must be followed u and that these buildings do do need to be on a foundation that's consistent with that code. Uh certainly if if if if it'd be helpful at some future meeting, I can arrange to have building official here to answer those questions, but I'm not sure they're really necessary. U it building code is an interesting creature. We currently operate under the 2015 Michigan Residential Building Code. Um just recently the state uh took the action to adopt uh the next well essentially the next code the 2021 code uh was what they had decided to adopt u and uh and I believe it's that code that brings in some specific regulation related to tiny home construction.

However, a lawsuit stopped that process. uh the homebuilders and some other groups uh do not like the 2021 code. It has some pretty uh challenging uh environmental requirements, very expensive requirements u and uh that that were actually replaced in the 2024 code. But but these numbers these are all the international building code. These are this is there's a model building code just called the international construction code. um and uh it's put out and then states and localities adopt it or adopt it with changes that sort of. In Michigan, we all operate under the same code. So, it's the state of Michigan that ultimately decides which building code we follow. And so, right now, we're following Michigan's version of the 2015 uh international code. U 2021 code was adopted and immediately set aside because of a lawsuit. So, we're still under the 2015 code, which has no specific requirements for tiny homes, which means essentially they're governed by the same standards that apply to other single family homes. Uh, that may change in the future if we ever adopt a newer code. But, but if we do, then obviously they would have to follow those those code requirements.

Okay. Um, open it up to everybody. I suppose my question my question will be what will be the next steps uh for us then for the planning commission what what can we do here? Yeah. Is there anything for us to do here?

Yeah. Excellent. Um well uh they as said they've sort of alluded to not really come out and ask but alluded to the idea of of asking the township to take the lead to amend our ordinance to allow their project. I will say that that's somewhat challenging because all we've seen are the presentations they've received, we've never really gotten a full picture of the all the things they'd like to do because frankly like any development project in the early stages, it's changing. It's shifting. Uh and so exactly what they might want is that would need to be clarified. Uh and what we might adopt also would that need to be discussed and evaluated. Um I I I don't ever recommend uh In my career working with many communities, I don't I've never recommended that we amend our ordinance for one property, one project. And that's really what is being asked for. Um, so if we were to amend our ordinance, it would be to amend it to to be more to allow more broadly tiny homes in various ways. We talked about some of those ways, whether it's tiny homes, how do we treat them on an individual lot in a neighborhood? Do we do it allow them on smaller lots than the ordinance in the zoning district other allow all those kinds of questions in addition to then looking at issues like this housing for the homeless or supportive housing senior housing cottage housing there's various names for these things that uh that that we could address in the ordinance u but whatever we do I my recommendation is that we would take a comprehensive approach and look at all the full scope of what the tiny home uh possibilities are essentially what what cottage homes the possibilities are. Uh I don't think that's going to be very helpful to them because I would view that as a pretty long process and frankly as we're talking about our

master plan update. It really probably should start with with that. Uh we talked a little bit later about the master plan update. uh as I shared with the chair, uh the material that I intended to have for you that is not quite done yet and the key item with that is actually housing plan. Um and this was some of my reading material and as I was looking at at what what we talked about and what the priorities were that we talked about looked at some of this material look and looked at some of the issues that came out of the the housing study that that that we received data on a while back. um all that all that's coming into that plan. Uh it didn't quite make the cut to be able to get to you in time to to have it on this agenda. Uh but really that I think is the first step is whatever we would to do, we would want to set a foundation in that plan because it would be a pretty radical change from what we do right now in terms of housing uh minimum housing size and all those minimum lot size all those kinds of details. Uh so that's a long process. This is not something that that uh it would take weeks or even even a few months. I suspect that that's going to be a much more significant discussion if we pursue it. Uh that's why the PUD is actually the the appropriate vehicle because see one of the problems with us doing it is we do have to be comprehensive. We have to look at all the possibilities. In the end, I suspect that whatever ordinance we might adopt would actually be more restrictive. than what might get approved as part of a PUD for this specific project because we have to look at all the possibilities and what are all the angles um and in order and figure out the right approach from all those various directions comprehensively but at a PUD we're looking at this is what they're proposing to do and what do we see this this is our playground this is our our

playing field that we're working it's narrower it's more specific and we're working with a specific development project. So we don't need to look at things they're not proposing to do. Uh and so it becomes much simpler relatively speaking to uh to to look at a PUD application that it does to approach approach this from the idea of a zoning amendment. Uh so for you in terms of what what you could do if you wished uh you could uh uh ask to start the process to amend our ordinance to to allow for some of these uh things they're talking about. Uh and we we certainly can pursue that. Uh but I I don't recommend it. I don't think it's it it's a valuable use of time and I don't think that that frankly that that the proponents of this project would like the results. What was the nature of the discussion specifically about the PUD option? Is it resistance? Is it is there do you think there's concern about cost of the of in you know having someone develop it uh you know the plans or or what I mean because I agree it seems like that would be a reasonable way to go with something like this. Um well I I can I can't speak for Amanda Break. I I don't know all those details. I wish I wish he was here to speak speak to that. Uh I I suspect cost is a concern. This is uh this is not a well-healed develop developer. U you coming off of a hugely successful project and wanting to invest in another one. Uh this is a group of advocates for the homeless for for low-inccome housing that uh have a desire have a have a vision are trying to put the resources together to accomplish that. What little I have heard about what they have done on the

financial side. I've been very impressed with u they have secured some state money, some state grant money. Uh I don't know what else has been secured but but I have been uh impressed with the support that they have been putting together. Um any development project requires a substantial investment and my sus my suspicious cost is a factor. Um one of the benefits with a PUD is they get an they get an answer relatively quickly and with a relatively low investment. That conceptual development plan is not an engineered fully engineered site plan. They certainly would have to survey the property and have accurate information about about the roads and and basic information about utilities and things like that, but but basic not not exact engineered details. Uh the uh the layout is conceptual. So it's there's a layout on the plan. Somebody would have to draw it up, which costs money to draw it up. But again, it's not a fully engineered site plan. It's not even a preliminary site plan as the ones you normally see at that stage. It's it's close to preliminary site plan but actually does not have all the requirements of that of that stage either. It's a less information than preliminary site plan. Uh beyond the plan usually the the additional information is actually uh written material. It's it's information about what are the proposed uses a list of all the proposed activities will be going on in the property. Uh there's a a section of the PUD ordinance that uh is simply referred to as regulatory flexibility. Uh and it and it's a section that allows limited deviations from zoning ordinance requirements. Uh and uh what that basically means is if the if the ordinance would require a setback of 50 ft, but they want to propose a setback of 20 ft because that works better for their project and and they can show how that works better. But this is actually an improvement to go

have this adjustment. U that they simply propose that on the on the plan. It would be a list of limited deviations. Here's what the ordinance requires. Here's what we propose. Here's why we're proposing it. And ultimately, you as a planning commission look at that and the board of trustees look at that and if you agree with that that that what they're doing actually creates a better overall project, it is better. It's a benefit to do that then if you approve that that PUD plan as part of a resoning that becomes the zoning. Now the setback is 20 ft. So that that's another written material that would be on the plan is that list of limited deviations. Uh but but the plan itself would be fairly simple. The uh even the timing is is pretty short. It requires a planning commission public hearing. Obviously that that takes a little time at no notifications uh but uh not not significant amount of time and then it does require board of trustees action. And for the board of trustees that requires two meetings, a first reading and a second reading of the proposed resoning uh change. Um and but the board meets twice a month. So even there that doesn't necessarily have to take a substantial amount of time. Within two three months uh they can have an answer uh related to is their their design is their concept going to be approved or not. and then the PUD uh if it is approved if that if that if the propert is reszoned to the PUD zoning district and that conceptual development plan it's associated with is approved that's the zoning of the property it does not expire it continues with the property until it's replaced or removed u and so there's no question about how we have only so much time to do do the development uh that at that

point then each of the steps from there are simply site plan review and they can do that in phases. Phase one, we're going to do this little piece here. Phase two, we're going to do this piece. And they simply come back with site plans for those pieces as they choose to move forward with it. They can also come with a site plan for the whole thing and build it in phases. It's up up to them how they pursue that. But with a PUD, they actually get an answer pretty quickly. And it's that's what's been kind of frustrating that they haven't ever applied uh for a plan of development approval to be able to get answers to their concerns or questions about whether this would be approved or not. They haven't applied to for anything though. Correct.

They have not PUD included. So So we need a PUD from them. What's that? So we need a PUD from them then is what I'm hearing.

That's what we need. That's that's the process. uh we've we've given them that that direction. I I will tell you that that uh as I understand it and I suppose again I'm speaking somewhat out of turn for Amanda Bre. So if I'm incorrect about that I I will take the correction from her when that comes. Uh but I understand that that she may have gotten uh some counsel that suggested that plan development was not a good option. uh and and uh I suspect having worked in multiple communities that the reason why that council was given is that some communities the plan development regulations plan development is something that was added to zoning back in the 60s and and it was it was created by developers uh because zoning at in the in the 1960s had become very stratified. Thou shalt every little boxes and thou shalt and developers said look we want to do this great project if it's a big project it's going to involve mixed use commercial residential we want to build a town we want to add you know add a whole section to your town we need something more than than what you have in your ordinance and so the idea with the plan development was to was a safety development a way for an unusual or big project an innovative project to be proposed just as we've talked uh that didn't fit into the little boxes. Over time, some communities have have reacted to to bad experiences with that. Of course, that can happen. You have a developer that maybe doesn't do what they said they were going to do. U and it becomes a big argument back and forth and maybe the plan was not clear. Uh and so interpretations get create trouble. And so some communities have then added more and more and more little requirements into their PUD section. So it ceases to be flexible but becomes almost a mini zoning ordinance with its own set of requirements and and a kind

of a labyrinth of thing shelts within that within that section. uh that often happens where developers have used the PUD process to to get uh to push through residential developments with higher density than otherwise would be allowed to maybe mildly abuse the process to to push through something that they couldn't get otherwise. Uh and so the reaction to that is we'll just change the ordinance. Uh in our case, none of that is there. We deliberately created as simple process as we could. We kept as flexible as we could. We wanted to invite and encourage innovative projects to come before you. We had the prestige center project that was exactly that. It was it was a mix of of uh a couple different kinds of assisted living memory care but then also originally had the independent senior living uh on it. The property was zoned B4 general business uh and was planned for business. So this there was not a not not a really a good mechanism for reszoning to something else. Uh the combination of the juices over there didn't fit into one zoning classification. So the PUD was appropriate way to go and they pursued it. Uh it's the same thing here that this really this is the best option. I think that maybe Amanda Bra may have gotten some bad advice about other people's more cumbersome regulations that don't that's not part of ours. without some sort of site plan, there's really not a lot we we can do to see, hey, maybe it fits, it still fits better under a PUD or maybe it fits better in some other ordinance that, hey, this could make sense without you having that in your hands and allowing us to see it, then

I see.

Yeah. Essentially, we need something to respond to. I mean, that's really where we are is that that we we've heard a lot. We've had we've had questions, we answered them. Uh we've given some direction and ultimately at this point we're simply looking for something to an application that we can then respond to and start the conversation. The plan new development, it's there is a you might think of it some people talk about as a negotiation between the the township and the developer. It's not really that. Uh but it but as I said there is flexibility built into where the developer can propose limited deviations can propose land uses that don't fit in the zoning district. uh you know can can propose certain uh phasing or certain uh arrangements uh that that uh might not fit in the tight boxes of the zoning district but but show how that's actually a better result than than we would get otherwise or how this this particular project is is needed in the community that fits a need which is really what this one does uh that is not otherwise met in the community. Uh, so that that's exactly what the key was designed to do.

I'm just going to throw this out there as not really knowing, you know, just as an amateur in this whole thing. But if I were if I were in that position, it seems to me that well, first of all, because there are such communities already in existence, that the plans for those communities exist. And so there are examples out there that shouldn't be that hard to find. And even if it's an expensive process to to kind of assemble an application and draw it up, there also are uh there are builders and engineers out there who have altruistic values and there also are retired people that may be looking for something to do. um that it seems like you would you would kind of cast about and see whether because couldn't couldn't couldn't any person that that understands a a a blueprint probably make a pretty good stab at putting something together that would that would be at the level you would need for a PUD application. Uh yeah, our ordinance would uh allows uh certainly civil engineer, surveyor, landscape architect, architect, any of those professions have those skills and and can put together a plan that that can easily meet our our basic standards. U we have occasionally seen folks that have handdrawn plans. It is this is kind of I think this is more complicated than that that than that but but it can be done where somebody draws it out, scales it out and puts measurements on things and this is what I want to do and we can improve it. We see it more with the minor site plan uh level that that Peter reviews administratively where the plans

are much simpler. Um the uh yeah the there there certainly variety of options. I understand that she does have some some expertise working with her. I have no idea what their relationship is contractually but but I understand she has a civil engineer and architect. Okay. You me you mentioned uh other communities,

tiny home communities. U she gave some examples. uh in in her presentations um the uh at least earlier on in the in the discussion the the examples all that she was giving were all from the southwest of the United States uh all from a very different climate Texas as I said Arizona place like that u the uh and and we we discussion we call kind of called that one out said you've got to you've got to design this for our climate you know whatever you're doing has to be has to work for this climate we're in. U and that may mean adjusting because what you can't pick up something from New Mexico or Arizona and drop it in in Union Township and have it work the same. We actually had that experience. We have an apartment community right around the corner from the the site they're proposing where a a as I understand it the the apartment the design of those apartments was was originally a project in I think Southern California and they picked it up and they did the same design here exterior stairs exactly the same way uh and uh a couple of years ago now we had to actually condemn the staircases quite a number of them because they had deteriorated they did they were not appropriately designed for our climate uh and they had become unsafe and so I think I don't remember how many there were six or eight staircases that we had to had to condemn uh and therefore condemn required the building to not be occupied uh while those staircases were built the owners did rebuild them uh beautiful they've rebuilt a bunch of other ones as well u but uh they and that was not the only problem they had with that project they had some problems with decks as well. U the balconies and decks that that were not designed for our climate. So that that is an important factor that

we can't simply lift what worked in you in the southwest are right here. Um there are uh as I've understand it there are a few uh tiny home communities that are at least aiming in the direction that that this one would be. This one, as far as my impression so far, and I may be mistaken, my impression so far is that this is going to be significantly bigger in scope than the tiny homeown communities that that were referenced uh Kazoo. I think in Grand Rapids, where I think were a couple that were in our state. There was one she referenced early on to me that was that was in Whitmore Lake, Michigan down there in north of Ann Arbor that I actually knew that one and uh and knew that it was actually a completely illegal project. U didn't talk really talk about that, but I knew that that one was actually not even there was nothing legal about it. It just sort of accumulated there and it was also a few homes, a few units, nothing like what's proposed uh by for this project. So anyway, there are things that need to be worked out, details need to be worked out and uh and so that's that's what the PUB process is for, frankly. Show us what you'd like to do. We've talked through it. We walk through it, you know, we we really think about is it is this something would work? Is this really a benefit for our community? Is this does it meet those eligibility criteria that are in the PUD regulations? Um and uh and then if it does, it can be moved forward. And if there are adjustments that need to be made, then we give direction that you might say negotiation, a little direction back, feedback that results in a plan that can move forward. So, just as we do with any other development project.

So, I um I I I do wish that uh that she were available for us to just have have a ch a friendly chat with because there there's so many things um that I have questions on that are not like particular pertaining to like the the PUD itself. I mean, I agree with what's been said so far, but like you you bring up a good point about the fact that many of these uh communities exist in much warmer climates and the things that she was uh specifically calling out as uh as as costing uh too much money to to uh for them to afford these solutions that they need. um having the individual bathrooms, having uh plumbing, heating, having uh you know uh the foundations uh just adds to the cost of these individual buildings. And it seems almost like well if if they've been at this for 3 years. Uh I I I feel like there's maybe some uh just not there's there's not I don't know how to say it exactly but I don't want to say poor planning but not I mean know the fact that these uh these are these communities primarily happen in the like the southwest and um all these things seem to be solvable by a more um uh like a sing single multif family home approach like apartment buildings and stuff like that. And I know that that's not what they're about. Like they're literally a tiny home village uh nonprofit. So just I wish we had a chance to discuss with her like what the issues are and like how how we can help her make this work but also yeah for our climate because that seems to be a big big issue that that sounds like it's it's causing lots of problems for you know both her and us.

Did you verify whether she's she's not raising her hand but she is online. She is okay. Um All right. She's not raising her hand. Okay. Well, you you never know whether the what what do we use? What what platform do we use for that? It's Zoom. Zoom. It's Zoom. Okay. Finding finding the raise hand button isn't always intuitive on these some of these platforms. We still provide the instructions for that, but they're packed as well. Never used this, but Okay.

Should make a should make a chat comment or anything. You know, one thing you mentioned the multiple family housing and this is something I've I learned from from her from Brick and her her team uh uh as part of this that really kind of intriguing thing and it deals with human nature. uh the discussion I asked the same question. Why why can't we just have apartment building? We have we have one apartment committee that is aimed at being being the transitional housing folks that are coming out of homelessness and and into permanent housing. U but the uh so we there is one of those in town. Why couldn't we have one that that's bringing being the starting point for that process but be apartments or studio apartments something like that and it and uh what I was told was that it has to do with the human nature of folks in that circumstance that uh uh that to be in an apartment building is to be closed in. It it's to be it and I'm I may I may tell this poorly so she can certainly tell it better next time that that she's here. But essentially there that there is a a feeling of almost claustrophobia. You might say that feeling of of being tied down and closed. You know I I can't get out kind of circumstance. So it can happen when you're in an apartment building. Come in the hallway. You have multiple doors. You have all these people and you might have a unit but it gets back in the space back in the building somewhere. The tiny home truly is a transitional element. They're out they're living outside essentially now. Uh and so it's taking one step inside, but it's a small step. They can easily step out. It's a small space. It's theirs. It's nobody else's. Uh and uh and so it's it truly it creates a transition that helps to

create a mental and emotional transition. And that's actually something I I have had some some personal experience with. I've had family members that was homeless. I mean, I got very problematic. I absolutely agree with everything that you said and I think that it's loudable and and in in a a place that has the climate that would allow for that. I I think it's an amazing opportunity to have that yeah that feeling of of ownership of a single family home with with the the cost reduction of having it, you know, be tiny. I just like I just I wonder if that's feasible with Michigan climate being what it is.

Yeah. City of Kazoo just recently, I just read this article not too long ago. uh they they went all out for what's called micro housing, the very smallest of the tiny homes. Uh that we're talking 100 150 square feet kind of size. Uh and they had apparently had a bunch of them built, maybe even smaller than 100 square feet. The numbers were very small. Uh and the the idea was kind of what what the Maslo's village concept was in terms of creating a space where where the homeless could could start, you know, and these these would be dropped in a parking lot or wherever they dropped. Very simple. They're not on a foundation. Come and live. They would have communal showers or whatever. But it was very very simple, simply inside space to stay. Um, and they they built a number of these. The number sticks in my head is 50, but don't quote me on that. Uh, of course it's on on tape. So, but but anyway, they built a number of these things and uh and they tried them out and the article was talking about the fact they were auctioning them off because they found that they were not functional in the wintertime. They truly were only functional for seasonal use. And so they they they were not suitable for what they needed in Kalamazoo. Uh which climate there a little further south than we are but not much similar climate. Uh perhaps even a little bit more snow than we get. U but uh anyway they were not suitable for year- round use. And so uh I don't know who's going to buy them but they were auctioning them off to to find them a new home. Uh that's the challenge that we have is is really to deal with that. Calmu tried uh very innovative doing some very innovative things there. This one didn't work.

Yeah. Let me break back in. Is she in con? She is raising her hand. Okay. Well, let's let her speak. Well, if we can turn up the volume. Yeah. Can you turn up the volume as much as possible? Both. Both of you. Her on her end and you on your end. Can you hear me? Just barely. Is that Was that here?

Is there a volume in the other room? able to make any comments in the chat.

Can you hear me now? A little bit better. Yeah. I'm as close to the computer as I can get a presentation and I apologize that I misunderstood. I thought this was a virtual only meeting.

Oh yeah. No, we're always in person and we just allow people to attend virtually, but we can we can hear you. So if you'd like to uh talk to us, you're welcome to do so.

Sure. Thank you so much. So our behind letters of support mostly because um October 10th was worldwide homeless awareness day and we just wanted to make sure that the township knew that we do have a great deal of support. Um so as we move forward um in creating a zoning that will work for both the tiny homes and the township. Um I know that sometimes we want to make sure that all the community members are in favor of projects like this. So we wanted to make sure that you saw that support. Um I would like to make a correction on the Kazoo tiny home village if I may. So what they bought for pot they were preassembled micro homes that simply consisted of two beds. Uh there was no plumbing. Um some electrical or things like heating. Um those pods were never established in a village due to the fact that the PUB that um they had wouldn't align with any of the open properties in Kazoo. So they never actually actively functioned as a village. And because they were unable to find property, they then had to auction those pods and have decided to move toward a congregate shelter.

Well, so what do you think about uh having listened to our discussion? I'm assuming you were able to listen to it. Do you have any different feelings about the PUD route here now compared to before?

I definitely appreciate the conversation. I think our group mostly wanted to hear from the board what direction would work best uh for our township out of respect for all of the hard work that y'all have already been doing um in our area. And I would that my perception of how to move forward was not quite as open and accessible um as what has been discussed this evening. Uh we have been working with civil engineers. Um we've worked with folks in different zoning districts. Um I would also like to point out that one of our favorite examples of a tiny home village actually is in Seattle, Washington, which where the climate can get quite chilly there as well. Um so the examples that we've provided have not simply been southern state examples. There are some that have been established and primarily based on their programming which has been wonderful programming um and has honestly changed the trajectory of their homeless population. Uh the examples of how to build uh come from, for example, Washington with the low uh lowinccome housing institute uh coalition. They have uh several different sites. I believe it was eight at my last count. Um we are not looking to build single family homes and we um have run up against a few difficult conversations in that while the structure obviously needs to be secure and our number priority is making sure that we're providing safe, decent um

transitional housing. We also want to make sure that we're being very clear both with also with our participants in not creating something that uh would be the desire to be in long term because it is supposed to be transitional housing. Very much a caveat to a homeless shelter with needs being met um and services being provided.

So is do I conjecture that that part of the issue there would be you you think that having even in Michigan having communal uh bathing would be a reasonable way to go compared to putting uh full plumbing in each unit. I would say yes because um the facilities that we're talking about as far as the bathroom within the micro home would consist of a multi-use toilet and a sink. Um communal showers give us the ability to maintain a better level of uh sanitation. Sometimes the folks that we're servicing may not have all the capabilities to be able to clean a full bathroom, for example. I I would also state that for a majority of these villages, communal shower houses are a common, you know, I just like to add like I uh definitely see the value in all that and I totally agree with all that and and everything you saying are making is making sense. Uh my my biggest concern just as a resident of Michigan and being a keenly aware of of what uh Rodney had discussed with things like the the frost level uh long-term health of the actual units as they go through the different seasons. Um and then uh like that's my primary concern and and my secondary concern uh is uh like especially in the winter um being you know having to go

outside to to access things um might not be uh good for certain types of homeless people especially uh people who are disabled either physically or mentally. Um, and uh they could I just I have a lot of concerns with uh with something like that where communal things are not available uh that are winterized and and that's you know if we can find a way to find a common ground with that. I'm totally all for it. I think these these tiny homes that we've seen the presentations that you've given previously are wonderful and are amazing. I just I want to make sure that they're properly winterized essentially. like that's that's been my biggest concern uh since learning about this. And then um just uh just a minor ad uh I have family who is from Seattle, Washington and to my knowledge uh that whole area is one of the only tropical rainforests in the United States. And while they do kind of get brisk uh mornings in the winters, uh it's fairly uh it's it's a fairly stable climate year round. I certainly appreciate that feedback. I have talked to um their engineers and construction and they've told us that they've gotten to um some freezing temperatures consistently. So, I will definitely be backing that and I appreciate that point. Other comments or questions from other commissioners either of of the uh of her or of Rodney is just an kind of an observation and and it's probably just a kind of a sidebar. I don't know if this is

something that should uh should be taken up with the um the trustees but uh the the word homeless um has negative connotation to it. Um homelessness is a condition. It's not an identity. So when we say that people when we call people homeless um it creates stereotypes obviously it can be dehumanizing. So I think you know as a public entity we need to to take that that sensitivity into you know into account. Obviously using terms like unhoused is is probably um a more appropriate term today. Um there are others as well but it's just something especially as we start documenting things. This is I read through this document. I think it's referenced in here. The word homeless is only referenced a couple of times in here. um one being the worldwide homelessness day letter is in the in the title of it. So it's just something it was just an observation. I think we have an opportunity. Um, and it's just obviously in in making sure that we're sensitive to, you know, the citizenship and and what their condition is because obviously I think for the first time I was driving last week and and I was coming through the new little square on Main Street and I saw a person at 6:30 in the morning sleeping on a bench. I had never seen that before in my 36 years in Mount Pleasant. So, um, projects like this support, uh, that not happening. It's probably happening, just my experience. So, just something to think about as we as we move forward.

I I agree. I think that uh the board is supportive certainly of this kind of project. It's just trying to figure out how to make it work in a cost-effective way for the organization sponsoring it. um but still meet the requirements we see in terms of the weather here uh especially heading into the colder months. Now all of us were realizing today right the temperature is shifting and uh you know when you're in your own home and the heat's on this is not an issue but you know what is good enough for someone who's unhoused so that they are transitioning into housing more permanent housing but aren't so attracted to the unit that they don't want to leave it and I think that is a real tricky tricky kind of conversation to have um about what's sort of good enough to get you through but not good enough to make you want to stay. And I'm having trouble with that with I understand that's an issue but I'm having trouble with that because it feels like we're um downplaying the quality of the housing that you want to provide because you don't want it to be too attractive. And that's a problem for the township because we have to think about the fact that this is housing that's going to be approved within our community. So what does it need to look like? So it's really challenging, but I think that I I think I'm sensing from other people on the commission that people are very supportive of this. It's just trying to figure out how to get to the actual plan.

Thank you. Yeah, I have to say I' I've I mean based on the discussion whether you choose to to you know take the suggestion and and go with a PUD or whether you uh don't that at some point putting something on paper that people can look at and see well what would this look like? Where would where if if if if that if that land is able to be obtained, where would the where would the individual units go? Where would the you know where would the office go? Where would the collective uh you know bathing facilities if that's what you want to propose? Where would that go? Because, you know, even a even a reszoning, you'd have to know what you're looking at and and try to decide whether there's a zoning that currently exists that would meet that or whether there needs to be a new type of zoning or whether this is a perfect example of a PUD, so let's do that. Do you see what I'm saying?

Absolutely. And I would just like to that we have not posed anything because it has not seemed um accessible. I I guess would be choosing my words correctly. There has been conversation, a lot of conversations and it has felt frequently that the vision for uh micro housing and not long-term housing. Um I our goal is definitely not to provide anything that is unattractive or that lacks any sort of decency or respect for the folks that we're serving. And that has been in any way my presentation, I do apologize. That is certainly not where we're coming from. Um it it has felt um often times not accessible in conversation to present something like a micro home with minimal facilities. Um, so we've been trying to navigate what would be considered acceptable and tiny homes and their building codes are not universally regulated. So, it's kind of a tight rope in trying to find what the township would find as a best solution and a best build. We do have um conceptual site drawings that um have been discussed and in fact are in the presentation that I've given um both to the trustees and the planning board. And if if there is a jumping off point which I I feel grateful that the conversation you've held tonight um does give access to okay, let's have this conversation. Let's go ahead and do the presentation of what we look like.

Um submit our proposal for a PUBG and and to know that that can be an open conversation, not an end all be all. Nope, we're not going to do it, I think, has been the biggest concern. Um, and as to why we've not presented an actual proposal at this point.

Okay. Well, I mean, I I think I'm speaking for all the commissioners. I think we would I think we would welcome yes a proposal. Um%

I don't think I don't think we're prepared to say that it would automatically be approved but I mean anything that comes before us we we look at carefully and seriously and the majority of things over the years that have come to us have been approved ultimately. Um, but but I just think that there's a big difference between hearing a description of what someone would like to do and seeing the plan. When you see the plan, that's when it begins to look like, you know, you be you can you can think about, well, how would this work? How would traffic flow work? How would how would people where would people walk? Where would they be going? All this sort of thing. How would this fit into that particular area? I mean, we we all can create mental images of that, but we may be way off from what you're thinking. So, it's helpful to be able to see that.

It might be helpful, too, if you have uh sort of several different levels of housing options to have those as well. So, that could also be something to consider. um like the tiny home versus the the one on with an act. I mean, I know there are different models and they come with different facilities built in. So,

I've just I've stayed in a vacation in an unheated cottage in northern Michigan during the winter on a ski vacation where we had to keep the fireplace going and it's simply not safe to put people in housing and and forcing them to go outside to use the restroom and things like that. I mean, it just feels like you really need to consider the weather here because it is so unpredictable, especially during the winter. That's because they're not finished and it's not 1880. If it was, it'd be perfectly fine. But we live in a different time.

So, do are we looking for a recommendation from the planning commission, something formal, or is this There's There's no action tonight. It was this was truly simply a discussion. Okay. Great. And thank you for allowing you to take part. I appreciate that. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for being I really our first Well, we've had a couple I think guests before, but we haven't done it too many times. So, I'm glad it was worked and we were able to hear you just fine. Do you And we do have another agenda item to tackle, but do you feel like you've gotten enough from us tonight? I think so. Thank you very much.

Okay. Super. All right. So, if there's no final uh comments from commissioners on this topic, we're ready to move on to our next topic. Okay. So, item B under new business is the uh text zoning ordinance text amendment for uh the topic of firearms dealers. And so again, Rodney will remind us of how we came to be at this point, say what he wants to say about the proposal, and then we'll discuss it.

All right. Well, thank you. Uh, you've seen some of this before. We had a conversation a couple months ago about this topic. The ordinance allows gunsmiths, that's the term, uh, in several districts. It does allow it as a special use in, uh, in the egg and residential districts. The intent I believe was basically to treat it like any other home occupation. Uh the our home occupation section allows it has a list of allowable home occupations that simply can be there. Uh as long as they follow the rules in that section and then it allows basically anything that doesn't fit in this list can be approved as home occupation but requires a special use permit from the planning commission. So the gunsmith I think fits in currently in that same environment that if they want to operate operate out of their home they have to get special use permit. As we talked about previously the challenge is is that that requires public notices. We send notices out to everybody within 300 ft. We put a notice in the newspaper uh as well as on our on our website. Uh and so we're basically advertising to to anybody that's paying attention that there are likely going to be firearms available in this person's home. Uh creating potentially unsafe circumstance for that that person. Uh certainly making them more of a target than last week. Uh so the the discussion was uh the idea was perhaps to look at could we allow a firearms dealer and that's that's the more accurate term now. uh rather a gunsmith um would allow a firearms dealer at least in certain circumstances to to be a home occupation without the need for for a a special use without the need for a public room. Uh and uh and so that's what this is proposing to do. Uh in in your packet uh our report date October the 6th, we we listed the 11 different types of firearms, federal firearms

licenses that are allowed. We're not proposing that all of these be allowed as a home occupation. Uh things like manufacturing ammunition, manufacturing destructive devices, explosives, uh those things that are not appropriate certainly in home occupation. So what the ordinance does is it it number one defines firearms dealer in a narrower sense. It it bases it on the federal definitions but it it it's reduced down doesn't incorporate all of what the these 11 categories represent but but a narrower scope for firearms dealing. Uh and then it it also it proposes to allow it uh in in uh the uh as a home occupation. So adding to the list of allowable home occupations without a hearing and then adds under prohibited uses uh adds in the activities that that are more challenging more more intensive and basically says these things can't happen. So again manufacturer importer of destructive devices uh pawn broker manufacturer of ammunition outdoor sales and demonstrations all those things would be prohibited as part of a home occupation. uh they would potentially be allowed in the commercial districts where firearms dealer right now is allowed as something by right uh if we're proposing somebody change the name there to firearms so that broader those broader activities could potentially be in a commercial district uh under the licensing process but would not be allowed under narrower scope for home occupation. So that in mind, this I just want to bring this to you. You've seen it before. We did make some tweaks to it uh from the kind of the initial concept that I shared a couple months ago. U and so just want to make sure you were still comfortable with it before we we set it

for a public hearing future meeting.

Okay. Very good. Um yes, so I read this through a number of times to make sure I was understanding everything. Um, oh shoot, I just turned that page. The definitions um it mentions uh in section uh well there's there's two things. There's there's home occupation and then there's home uh there it is homebased limited business. And in the definitions, the only difference I can see is that the home occupation, it has to be only people that live in the home and the home based limited business. You could employ someone who does not live in the home,

right? I believe and I I believe there might be a couple of other expansion bit a little bit more leeway given to the homebased limit business. I think maybe a size that's allowed you have a little bit more area that you can operate out of. Yeah. But the but the big one certainly is yes. But in in section 619 it says and I maybe I'm looking at an older version but I don't think so. The homebased limited business uh still goes through the special use permit process whereas the home occupation does not. That's correct. And so this the the the gun the the firearm dealer would have to fall under the home occupation. That's correct. Okay.

If they want to have employees, they're going to be coming to you for special. Okay. Um and then on uh page 39 of your packet where section 3.4 four where we're striking the S's for AG, R1, R2A, R2B, R. Yeah, those four, they're being replaced with nothing. Right. It's an open box, which means it's not ordinarily permitted, but if it qualifies as a home occupation that it could be. Exactly. All right.

Um, and then lastly, I I like what you the the definition. Is that like a federal thing? Is that Did you get that from some legal? Yeah, the the the definitions are are based on the federal definitions. As I said, I I tweaked them to tighten it up a bit from from the broader language of the federal which covers all 11 license types. But it's based on those federal definitions. Okay. And the way you finally handle it in in 619 I thought was pretty elegant. Do I if I sum this up as as guns but not bombs? Yeah. Is that basically the idea? That's a yes. All right.

We should put that in the in the in the hearing notes. Yeah. Okay. All right. Questions? Other questions from folks from home occupation? the things that are allowed. Do you occasionally visit these locations to make sure they're in compliance?

You know, it's it's interesting. We used to require a permit. First of all, we we used to require planning commission approval of a home occupation permit under the former ordinance. That was the staff that had come in to the planning. Uh we we do not require a formal permit. Uh we we can we there's a there's a provision for a home occupation permit as as a zoning permit. We it's in the fee structure. I think I think the fee is zero for that but uh but anyway uh if somebody needs a have a documentation of a local approval we just have file ask for the zoning permit for your home occupation. Peter reviews it and he confirms yes it complies or no doesn't. Um but the idea with the home occupations is actually we want to make it as as easy as possible to have one as long as they follow the rules. Uh because home home occupation is the best way to start a business. It's it's the least expensive way to to get going. U and there are many businesses that can operate out of a home with with with no impact on anybody for many years. Uh in my consulting world, I I worked out of a home office for many years. Um and uh you there there are others that do that, even folks that do hairdressing or taxes or attorneys. There's lots of things that can be done at home. Uh and uh and so we we want people we want to encourage people to be able to start a business and grow it over time because we hope that eventually grows to the point where it grows out of their house. It becomes too big. Uh it usually it will become too big for them long before it becomes too big for us. Long before it hits our maximum numbers in percentage of the home or what like that it will become aggravating because it's taken over the living room and the kitchen and the dining room and you know and you need to move out you know. So and that's the idea is that you're so successful that that you can move out

into an office space or into a warehouse space or whatever it is. But but the goal really is to make it as as frictionless as possible to be able to start a business uh in your home. So following basic rules that ensure that what you're doing is not going to harm the bakers.

Um on page 39 in uh the amendments to section 3.4 for uh as as Philip also uh noted that we're striking out the special use permits for the the AG through the R2B. Um do you foresee any impact to current businesses uh striking these out?

Uh no, no, because uh if they're in that zoning district, uh first of all, we don't know about them. They're probably not legal right now because they don't have a special permit. But I would say that this that that the f these are federally regul regulated activities. How likely there aren't any uh because they are they are the federal government requires them to get local zoning approval before they can get their federal license. Um and and so they have they have a need to come talk to us. Uh there are a few activities that are like that that and this is one that's really probably the strictest in that in that school. So if there is one that's operating right now that that doesn't have a nal code rule u then frankly making this change would potentially make them legal because if they're operating on their home they home occupations and follow the rules and they're fine.

But currently we we don't have any special use permits assigned is what you're saying. I'm not aware of it. I thought we did one. Have we done a special use for guns? I think it was before Rodney maybe was here, but I thought we did one.

But anyway, essentially they would they would and there's two things would happen. Number one, they would fall under the new rules. If they comply with them, wonderful. Okay, just follow. uh if they did have an approval like that where there was some approval granted to them and and the ordinances change then they're also protected by the the legal non-conforming status that they would have uh that they'd be allowed to continue they were legal when they started even if the ordinance changed they're allowed to remain there as long as they continue to operate in the same fashion. Okay.

Yeah. But to to follow up on on James's point, the home the home occupation has to receive a permit, right? Zoning permit. Well, as we operate now, first of all, in many cases, people are simply operating business and nobody knows they're doing other than their wife or children or family. Um what we have basically said is that that uh if you need a if you need a local zoning approval for your business, come and get a permit for it. We we can do that. Uh but we do not go out hunting down people to find out that whether they have a home occupation permit or not.

Okay. We've simply made it available to help people that want to have that confirmation that they're in compliance. Uh, and as I said, there's some cases like this one where formally the the federal government will require that local zoning permit. That was going to be my question. Yeah. We'll just do it through a zoning permit. They apply for it. If I recall correctly, I think there's no charge for that permit. Yeah. And granted, they're on the way.

Okay. Okay. But but you know, and I don't want to throw a monkey wrench into this, but realistically, if someone goes through this process, there's not going to be anybody that would know right away. certainly if they were kind of branching out into some of the uh more destructive products relative to uh you know your your typical hunting rifles and things of that nature. Well, I will say this that uh neighbors are wonderful people. Uh and they often give us a call to let us know about their neighbors uh doing something. It might be a barking dog, it might be something else. I I I mean often these issues are complaint generated and and if somebody's branching out, if they are if a whole ton of customers are coming, if they're out on the front porch selling guns, you know, uh you know, whatever that might look like, you know, if they if if they put a bunch of signs up 20% off today, you know, trying to run a pond broker operation, all these various things. um if they're doing things that are are not in keeping with the quiet enjoyment of the residential neighborhood, which essentially what our section 6.19 says, it says a lot longer these specific statements, but it really says keep it residential in in character. If they're not doing that, we're going to give a call and that call will then generate follow up with them and and it will help them be successful in getting things back in the line where they need to be.

Yeah. Yeah. Of course, making making that type of visit to this type of business is a little bit different from, you know, the the cookie bakery or the, you know, crafts or whatever. So, now the first the first uh the first notice might might be a door hanger. It might not even or it might be a letter. It might be a knock if it just depends on the circumstance.

Yeah. What what I've the direction I have always given Peter uh and our other uh enforcement personnel in our office is trust your trust your instincts. Trust that little voice in the back of your head. If it doesn't feel right, don't go. If there's anything that doesn't feel right, just walk away. Yeah, we can always come out a different way. If we need to call the state police or the county sheriff and have them come with us, that we can do that. But in this case, I suspect you're probably right that because of the activity, if we know what the activity is, uh then we might first thing might be a letter. You have a problem what it is, give us a call.

Yeah. So, basically, our job tonight is to look at this and decide whether it's ready to go forward to a public hearing. Correct. Okay. So, thoughts from commissioners? Any other questions? Is there anything that would make it more ready for a public hearing?

I It's really if you're comfortable with the change and and feel comfortable that it's ready to go out and be seen by the public. I move to schedule a public hearing for the next regular meeting on November 18th, 2025 to receive public comments on the proposed firearms dealer amendments to sections 2, three, and six of the zoning ordinance. Support. So the motion was made by lap. It was seconded by Bradshaw to schedule the public hearing for November 18th. Any further discussion? Okay. Roll call vote, please. Over. Support. Yes. Shingle. Yes.

Brown. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. All No. It was six yeses and one support. In my experience, whoever says the word first is supposed to be repeated throughout, and you all just went in a different direction. You'll get over it. She won't start with me next time. I'm sorry I couldn't read this. Okay. Thank you. You can. So, we have one more business item tonight and that is the adoption of the 2026 schedule. So, moved. Uh

or we could talk about it for a while. Well, yeah, we can have the motion now and then and then talk about it. I would just point out that I did get out my 2026 calendar and I checked the planning commission dates and they are all correct. I did not check all the other dates, but I checked our dates and they are accurate. Good enough for me.

And it continues to be the third Tuesday of the month. The joint meeting is the what would that be? the third Wednesday in April, I guess, but of April 15th. Um, and that's it for us. So, do I have a motion to approve the uh our schedule for next year? You do. Motion by Olver. Is there a second? Second. Second by the to uh to approve our 2026 meeting schedule. Any further discussion? All in favor, please say I. I. I. I.

Opposed. It was It was It was loud and enthusiastic. Okay. Um, we already had a brief discussion. Is there anything since it's on the agenda, is there anything you want to say about the master plan update? Uh, just I apologize that it didn't get out, but it said there have two sections that are very close to being done. the third one that's a little bit behind and I will share them with you via email. Uh so you'll have plenty of time to take a look uh and then of course they'll be in the packet for next month but but when they are complete I'll I will distribute them email so you have it early.

Is that is that a draft of the complete change?

So no I'm working section by section. So what I have right now is uh is housing uh seems topic already but the plan for housing uh the plan for agriculture and rural area that's a separate section and uh and then I I do owe you an updated version of that that economic development plan industrial areas plan. So those are the those are the three that are uh close and then there's a fourth one that the commercial areas I think was the fourth one that's that's not as as close but so you're going to get at least two of them fairly quickly a third one probably sooner after that. So you get them in pieces but it's basically section by section and these are kind of the core sections of the plan anyway and the idea is we'll take a look at them and then then bring them all together from there into a full document.

Can I ask a question? Yeah, please. Um, just back to the comments back to the city on the um their master plan. Did you ever get any comments back on that south entrance uh off of 27? Uh the uh uh you're talking about the new making a full interchange to a full interchange. Yeah, the city is very supportive of that. Definitely they that is that is definitely been made part of their plan. They corrected the confusion. There was some it was not not clear but now now it is clear that they are definitely supportive of that element. Okay. Thank you.

The I thought you were going to talk about the roundabout and I did not get any feedback at the roundabout other than I don't believe they made any changes to that section. Yeah, they were doing some some something in front of Red Lobster, which made me wonder if that's anything related. Actually, that was our sidewalk. That was a sidewalk project. Oh, all right. We uh we completed that stretch of sidewalk

uh in front of Red Lobster and and also there was another section on the other on the east end of the Indian uh shopping mall there. Um, and so we we now have the sidewalk complete all the way across the shopping center uh to the to the uh to the vacant lot that is proposed to be Leos Coney Island and the Big Chicken Restaurant. Yeah. And that project is this close to submitting a final site plan. They're so close. U so we're certainly hoping to see that very very shortly. Uh and that will complete the last piece uh once that's developed to take the sidewalk all the way through past Menard's uh along that south side of blueg grass.

Yeah. But isn't it true that if that roundabout were to be built that where the sidewalks meet uh mission would have to be totally redone as well? It it would completely mess up that whole whole process which was one of the comments we made. Okay. that uh because that corner there uh the southeast corner is would really difficult to fix with the roundabout there because because of the the topography uh it would be they would be doing a whole lot of digging and it's a very big retaining walls to be able to put a sidewalk into that space if they had to to push it backward.

Mhm. Okay. All right. So, we'll look forward to that next month. Just a couple more things here. We have extended public comment. If anybody would like to address the planning commission on any item, whether it was on tonight's agenda or not, you're welcome to do so at this time. Once again, give us your name and address for the minutes and limit your comments to five minutes on any issue. If you're online, raise your hand. Extended public comments open at 8:39. Is anybody left in our room?

Okay. So, we have no one in the audience. We have no one online. So, go ahead and close that back up. also at 8:39 until next month. Final board comment and comments from board members. Okay, I get the sense that people are ready to head out and get on with their evening. So, we've completed our agenda. We'll stand adjourned until our November meeting.