Zoning Board of Appeals - Regular Meeting

Right. I'd like to call the meeting to order. September 3rd. Um October 1st. October. October 1st. Uh let the uh minutes know 5:40 we started. Yes. Okay. And if we can stand for pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you.

Yes. Zachary Khai here. Steve Miner present. Paul present. Uh Tamara would be coming but yeah she's not yet. [Music] Yeah I think it's yes it's stopped. Yeah. So two absent for two absent right now. Okay. Um, I'd like to ask for adoption of meeting minutes from our last meeting on September 3rd.

Mr. Chairman, meeting minutes were distributed, reviewed, and I would propose that we approve those minutes from the September 3rd meeting. I approve. No, do second. Oh, I second. Sorry, I didn't I thought that was the second time. Now you approve. Now I approve. Approve. Approve. [Music] Should we make a note? Yes. Um,

so before we proceed with the order of business, I would just like to advise all the applicants that we only have three members present. That is a quorum. However, uh if your project uh is voted upon, it will require a unanimous vote of the three members present. So, normally what we do is uh we give you an opportunity at this time to uh ask that we hold your application in obeyance for a month until uh hopefully we have five members present next. But it's up to you entirely. Well, I guess we have four now. So, so uh

or five. So, so yeah. So, cancel what I said, I guess. Thanks for waiting. Explain a two two vote. Explain a two. A two two vote motion fails. Uh it still require every motion requires at least three votes to pass. [Music] Okay. Anybody have any questions or all good? Does anybody want a table? Anybody want a table? Are you okay?

Okay. All right. So, let's get on with the uh our old business. Our first um Yeah. PLZBA 20250046 1819 Fifth Avenue. State your name and Lindsay Hooper on behalf of 1819th Avenue microphone. There's no mic there. There's no mic. She's got this.

Lindsay Hooper on behalf of 1819 Fth Avenue Associates LLC. I believe at the last meeting this matter was tabled. Um we did apply for an area variance. The driveway on the property would result in the existing structure being about 100 feet set back from the main road whereas the city code allows for 10 feet. So we'd be looking for about a 91 foot variance.

Any questions? Any public comment at all on this? Anybody on the board? Sorry. Secret. I I just had one question. So basically these two the main building and the carriage house will now be two separate entities, two separate everything. Correct. Yes. One is a residential building and the other is an office building. So the intention is just Okay. And has all the infrastructure like like the you know the municipalities all been separated or I don't know if was it ever connected but were they at one time connected and then now they're separated or has that all been done or when you say municipalities

well like you know water, gas, electric? I believe that they're they have separate meters. Um but I can find out if or would like more information on that. It's my understanding that they're separate but I mean if they weren't is that like a problem? Seems like it might be Okay. Yeah. So then, yeah, no, I don't have any more questions. Anybody online that has a question? You need a variance. Right. So, this still has to go to the planning back to the planning board for approval of the subdivision.

Uh, today you're just being asked to allow uh the area variance because the garage is set set. so far back from the street. Okay, I have a motion. We're ready. Ready? Yeah, we're ready. I would propose to the Troy zoning board of appeals an area variance. The variance would not create an undesirable change in the character of the neighborhood or be a detriment to nearby properties if granted because you're simply subdividing a parcel that's already owned and they're both pre-existing structures.

I'll second that. Do you want we have to do seeker? Yes. I'm sorry. We will have to do because it's unlisted. I guess we'll have to do seeker. Yes. So, seeker first. Seeker first. I'm sorry. Yeah, I'll do it. Yeah, that's fine. In regard to PL ZBA 2000 202050046 as supported by the staff reports, I ask that the board find this proposal to be an unlisted seeker action with sufficient information available for a negative declaration. I'll second that. Just all in favor. All in favor? I I

zero. So I'll go back to the motion. Yes. I would move that the board approve the variance based upon the following finding of facts. It will not create an undesirable change in the character of the neighborhood. Would not have an adverse effect or impact on any physical environmental conditions. I'll second that. Approve. Approve. Approve. Approve. Thank you very much. Have a great evening.

Second. There's a dog out there. Second. Uh we have is uh PLZBA 2025 0048 2119 Avenue. Yes. Um

I don't know if you want me to respond to some of the um questions that were raised by a neighbor. Oh, this is Suzanne Collins here and Jordan White. Um I can just um answer those issues if that's helpful to the board. Sure.

Okay. Well, some of the issues were dealing with the introduction of a transient population that could disrupt the stable character of the neighborhood. Um I really feel this is not an issue. In my um document I submitted at the last meeting, I showed you a map with 12 dormitories and eight fraternities and sororities in the neighborhood in the immediate neighborhood. Uh one fraternity is right across the street. In that count, you have hundreds of students, not to mention the dorms that are just down the street at the corner of Tibbitz and Berdett across from the high school. Um, in not included in that count are the numerous private rentals, including duplexes, multifamily houses on BD Avenue that rent to students. Several landlords rent by the room to students, and you can find these listings on Zillow and places for students. The Berdett Avenue neighborhood is a vibrant, active area with constant pedestrian traffic. A lot of that is student traffic, not only from the college, but from the high school and middle school. The location of student housing, the RPI fieldhouse, the athletic complex, the track, soccer, and football fields, as well as additional fraternities and sororities on People's Avenue, Cook Drive, and Sunset Terrace, add to the character of this university neighborhood. Troy is a college town and has been one for over 200 years. Berdett Avenue has been surrounded by campus life for decades. It is part of the character and a good percentage of the population. I do not agree that the neighborhood would be disrupted.

And over 40 years ago, when I first moved to Troy and my husband and I started looking at homes, we immediately identified that this area of Troy was college and residential. Um, anyone who buys property in that area has to be aware of it. You are surrounded by it. So, I, you know, I disagree wholeheartedly with that premise. Another uh problem that um was mentioned by a neighbor was the increase in noise and activity that are inconsistent with surrounding residential and professional uses. Well, as I just stated, I don't believe this change in zoning will result in increased noise and activity. The proximity of a landlord to the proposed dormatory would provide oversight. The aim is to provide a quiet residence for serious students, professionals who are investing in their education. Unlike campus student housing and fraternity sorority housing, a comprehensive lease must be signed and in the case of students, often a responsible party must co-sign. This is far more regulated than any student contract with a fraternity or student housing. I don't believe that the comingings and goings of students on a daily basis will be any more disruptive than the daily traffic and activity on berdett which is a major thorough affair. Um, the next item that was brought up was uh creating additional parking demand and traffic on an already crowded street and raising safety concerns. Well, for approximately 50 years, 2119

Berdett has operated as a dental office. To alleviate parking issues for the staff and patients, Dr. John Keegan purchased the property next door to provide adequate off- streetet parking. Residents of the proposed dormatory will have access to the off- streetet parking area located behind 2117 and 2119 Berdett where there are 15 spaces for cars. The plan changes to 2119 Berdett will not create or contribute to the demands for parking on Berdett Avenue. And yes, parking can often be a problem on Berdett Avenue, but this is often caused by church services, events at the RPI fieldhouse or athletic fields, afterchool activities at the high school or middle school, or even faculty student parking for the high school and middle school. So, I don't agree with that premise that parking will be a problem. And the last item that was raised by the neighbor was the risk of setting a precedent for other nonconforming issues or uses and undermining the zoning plan. Well, I don't view this request as detrimental to the city's zoning plan. The neighborhood is defined by its coexistence with the university. It is also very close in proximity to a hospital, a church, a dialysis center, high school, middle school, and elementary school. And further down the road, you have medical professional office buildings. With the change in zoning in 2023, the property cannot be used for any medical or dental office. Mr. White has proposed a viable and attractive alternative use for 2119

Berdett. The property has been on the market for almost two years without any interest from parties for the permitted purposes indicated by uh Mr. or Miss I don't know El Eluli. I hope the zoning board will agree that the variance will result in a positive change. Thank you. any questions for

um I don't have any questions I would like to make comment if I may. So um to that so I just I'm hardpressed to I I I buy into what you're saying. Um however the very last line of the person that you're speaking about. I do agree that a precedent is being set and I also believe that you know you're not going to probably live there for 30 years. You're probably going to sell the property. It's not owned by the school. It's not owned by a fraternity. So I think that sort of eliminates that whole collegiate. It could become not collegiate is what my concern is. It could become a lot of things which is what my concern is 10 years from now, 15 years from now. You you get married, you have a family, move to Gilderland, I don't know. But then it becomes this thing that's really like a tenement house which for me as I look longterm that's my concern just so you know what my concern is.

Last month we looked up the difference between dormatory and student housing but you're still with the dormatory that you want to have it as not student housing. I'm asking for the variance to enable a sale of this property to Mr. White who has come up with the plan. I can't foresee 30 years in the future. Um I know and um I hate to see an empty property as attractive as this property is um in the current economic situation where small businesses are not would it be a viable thing for not for your buyer but for for you to I know it's on one deed right we have two separated part we have two separate parcels with section block and lot but we have one deed. Have you considered since you already have two parcels creating two deeds so you have two completely different buildings with a shared driveway that you know then that could become whatever somebody could make it into a single family house. Maybe they come back and make it into a two family house because there are two families on that street. Has that even been considered? Well, um, initially my thoughts were that if you separated them with the, uh, parking area in the back, you have one home that has basically no backyard. And, um, so that would not be very attractive. Um, I'm 75 years old. I really can't get into remodeling the office.

No, I understand that. you know, so you know, there are there are things I would do, you know, if I was a lot younger, but um you know, I feel that if I separate them, I'm going to be stuck with property that will never sell.

Just a comment andor a question. I've driven by that property multiple times in the last month. This past week, I actually walked up and down in front of the properties, took a good look inside the front window of what was the dental office.

I understand your issue. I empathize with that. But I think the solution to the problem may be to go back with your attorney and your realer, create two separate deeds, two parcels on two deeds, put both on the market as single family homes, and you're in compliance with the zoning code change. I understand that's time, it's work, it's some effort, but I think that could be a viable solution to your problem. All of the student housing on Berdett was grandfathered well before the change in the zoning code.

Just to clarify something that was Yeah. said earlier, I believe the the variance saw it as for a dormatory for a dormator which is limited to student housing by definition under our code. It would be right and that is the application. Correct. Correct. Yes. Okay. Just so Okay. So that got changed or specified since last month. If you want to pull pull up again. Yeah. Okay.

Vague. Uh this is Jordan White. I believe last meeting the concern with it being becoming lowincome housing is how it got pushed to dormatory. Uh if I remember correctly, I mean you can limit the variance to use as a dormatory. So as it's defined right there. Pull it back up. Yeah. But that would apply to both buildings. So he could he couldn't technically live in the second building, right? Or no, this is for the this is only for this is only for one building.

For the dental office says a dormatory is defined as a building utilized as a residence exclusively for students of a college, university or school. Just the dental office. My question is what other use do you see the dental office becoming? Let's say I'm not involved. What other use does it become? It's a cool funky building. I mean, it'd be a great single family house. Do you It'd have to rip the inside out, right? I mean, that's not you, but one one one would have to rip the inside out. I mean,

from a financial standpoint, I can't see anybody, you know, spending renovation budget to convert a commercial structure into a single family home. What's the square footage of that building approximately give or take? It's like two I don't have the the numbers off off top of got the real estate. It's over 2,000. Yeah, this is well well above 2,000 square feet. I mean, it'd be because it's very mid-century looking. It'd be it'd be a fabulous single family house for

it would be a great single family home. It's just I don't know who would like financially if that would make sense for anybody because you have to purchase it and then you have to spend the money to renovate it and then I I did that I did that to mine. Yeah. I mean I guess I mean I don't know I have a hard time with the dorm thing unfortunately. I mean, it's a cool idea, but is there anybody out there that has anything they'd like to say or I have a question? Mhm.

Um there are um online you can find management companies in Troy that rent to students and they've taken over buildings and rent by the room and basically they are doing what Jordan proposes. you know, they buy these homes with six bedrooms and so what is the difference? They may be in violation of the zoning.

Okay. And it's it's public knowledge though. It's I mean they get away with it. I'm sorry. I just Sorry. The other difference which is major in this scenario is One structure will be owner occupied, very close proximity to the proposed dormatory. You know, we're talking. So, when you do have this make believe family that I have you moving together with, you're going to have to you're going to have to sell the whole thing as one. Not necessarily.

He could propose a subdivision later on. which actually he doesn't even need to propose a subdivision. It's already two separate. It's two parcels right now. Um so theoretically he could issue a deed. The owner, whoever is the owner could issue a deed for one parcel and not the other. Okay. Somebody want to speak out there. Come on up. Come on up.

It's okay. Come to the

mic. Lifelong uh resident and a and a taxpayer in Troy. My name is Allison Collins. Um and uh I am uh within walking distance of of the property. I have a question about this process. Um when we were here a month ago um there was a request to uh have a variance and we discussed the rooming house. We discussed you know the concerns about low income that was that was addressed. So we went in the direction of or the the applicant went in the direction of the dormatory. So now there are concerns about what could happen down the line with the dormatory. So, are we looking at is this board um is the function of the board to accept or reject based on the impact to the neighborhood? Because if the I understand that there are many grandfathered properties, but you know, there there is student housing up and down. There is student housing a mile from there. Uh you know, students buy properties on Mom Street and rent by the room. It's happened. It happens all over Troy. And it's not legal, but it happens. It would cost a fortune to redo this building. And um there are eight rooms, there's a basement, kitchen. I mean, it is the structure is set up where it would be very very minimal to have students living there and living quietly as they've done um for for several decades now. So, I guess I'm just I'm questioning what is what is the um can you explain the oversight of it of this decision of how this wouldn't fit? Is that what is that what is is being considered because I just don't know a lot about the zoning process. So, that's my question as a as a resident as well. What what do we have what boxes have to be checked so that it can be allowed or not allowed?

take that. So, so um the zone a dormatory is not a permitted use in this zone, right? So, you need a variance for that. Yes, that's it right there. You the preferred use for uh facilities in this zone is residential. Uh which one? Yeah, resial R2. Yeah, it's R1. R1 a lot of the properties. So, so let let me finish. Okay, I understand that there are a lot of grandfathered properties around here. All right, but the zoning board here has to consider this. This is a use variance.

Uh you have four tests to meet uh including the hardship and the uh detriment to the neighborhood and all that stuff. Uh so the the board will exercise its best judgment here about whether or not to grant your variance. the the fact that there are other properties in the neighborhood being similarly used is not is not decisive or conclusive of your application. Okay. So because the zoning is for residential uh as the house which is on the adjoining lot is residential already. So that that is the process. you're you're trying to overcome a restriction in the zoning here with your application and it's up to their good judgment to decide whether or not they want to grant that.

And are there specific criteria for for you know for the review? Like is there are there certain there there are four there are four tests that have to be met and uh read those. We got them right there. Yeah. There has to be an economic hardship. There has to be um reasonable rate of return. That's the economic hardship, right? They can't get a reasonable rate of return unless these

hardship relating to the property as unique when compared to similar properties that it either does or does not apply to a substantial portion of the neighborhood. the requested variance if or if not granted would alter the essential character of the neighborhoods or the alleged hardship is self-created self-imposed.

So I mean I don't know how the board is going to decide this issue. um if you wanted us to table your application so that you could consult legal counsel and perhaps have legal counsel appear for you. I mean I think the board might entertain that that um but it's it's really up it's between you and the board. Keep in mind for a use variance all four tests have to be met. Not one, not two, but all four. Right.

It gives you the there's a conditions. Yeah, there's conditions. You can put a condition that say that the one of the properties has to be owner occupied. Did you do that? I don't even know. I don't know. Don't rewrite the law. I don't think I don't think I don't think you can do that.

So, I have a question. um you know by just by design the layout of the building at this point is not conducive to a residential property. When I was asked by the planning department to go through a list of possible uses with the fee for private um permitative uses.

Yes. one I remember one of them was senior housing I believe um and my only thought to that was yes daycare adult there's no way I can compete with Yeti you know but um just by the type of building it is at this point it is very difficult to find interested parties. Um, and uh I I don't know. I guess perhaps

it it's been for sale for two years at below market value. Yeah. Right. So, I don't know at this point. If the board is not in favor, then I guess we'll have to come back with another option. But I don't know that I was here for the last meeting and then you tabled us to this night. My understanding when we left the last time was that Can you provide your name?

Oh, sorry. Linda Luciano. I'm the realtor for Mrs. Collins. And at the time, my understanding was that you had heard our proposal about turning it into a dormatory. How many rooms is it going to be? Uh would be would be he be akin to putting in a sprinkler system to accommodate the new construction and criteria now for New York State, which he agreed. And so those four points that you mentioned about her hardship, obviously two years now the property's been there. She pays taxes, she does maintenance and all of that. The tenants are no longer in the in the 217 building. The uh the uh Dennis has just left. So there'll be no more income coming in there to pay these taxes and maintenance. So this is the hardship that my client is facing. So at and also the point that she made about not being able to find someone. I've been working diligently to try to find someone to take that space and as we discussed because it is funky as you say. Um it's been there's been no one. So when Jordan came along with his proposal I thought it was pretty good that he could make it into something that would benefit the neighborhood, benefit these students, benefit the city of Troy and provide housing for himself and for them and be the owner occupied right your side and um he was going to make it a really nice situation for these pe young people so I guess I'm not clear as to the four points I understand the hardship for her the second point was I'm sorry could you repeat what the second

it's unique it's the property is unique when compared to similar properties and does or does not apply to substantial portion of the neighborhood does not I'm sorry. Does not what? Apply to a substantial portion of the neighborhood with what we're looking to do. You mean? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, I think she has some valid points and information regarding that that it that's not that I'm saying you're wrong, but I'm saying that primarily the area is has many student occupied buildings. Um, and the third qu the third was what? I'm sorry. What's the third? will not alter the essential character of the neighborhood.

I don't I don't see how she's not and then it's not self created.

Rick, if if if it were to become a dormatory for students only, that would be the permitted use that you would be allowed. Correct. That would be the very very how does that get policed down the road, you know, again, he's got his he's got a swimming pool and how do how do how do we police? Well, that doesn't necessarily change the you're only granting the variance as to the former dental office. No. No. No. But I'm No.

If he moves to Guilderland, as you posited as something like that, then what you what you lose there, I mean, his house is still a single family house. uh you lose the owner supervision I guess which the applicant has touted but as far as policing it goes it is really unless I mean much of our code compliance department which is also our zoning compliance is complaint driven so um if someone makes a credible allegation of a misuse of a property or an unpermitted use of a property then we investigate but we can't we don't go throughout the city checking each residence to make sure I mean that the applicant has represented that there are people who are renting single single rooms to students in single family residences uh that may or may not be true but uh you know unless someone makes a credible allegation or something like that we don't we don't go seek it out I mean most people we depend on most people complying with the law.

Right. Right. You you've not tried to market it as a single family residence, a dental office. Is that correct? No. No. It's it's divided up as an office with operatories, exam rooms and reception desk. I don't know what it's a dental office. Yeah. I mean, it's been a dental office until just the end of this month, right? She she only

So, we're just looking to to change the dental 219 into dormatory space. We're not looking to change anything at 217. As you said, it's part of the same deed, but it could if something changes, if he moves out, it's still one commercial use to another commercial use, right? The question on the building, has it been marketed with a for sale sign on it for residential use? Well, we never put a sign out front because the dental practice, but they're gone now. They're gone as of today.

So, we could certainly put a sale for sale sign. It's online. It's online on every on every any any site that you can imagine and and

being a realtor and Tamara knows this too that you know a sign is a sign typically for the realtor to find the property or number two to peak some interest for a rental or something to that in that regard. Anyone who is serious about a property has an agent that they're working with looking for a specific type of property in a certain area at a certain price point. And that's where we get our leads and that's where we get our clients. So, a for sale sign will be a lot of knocking on the door. Oh, how much is it? Can we come in and see it? Traffic on the street. Oh, is is it is it for rent? Is it for sale? So I mean certainly you know also make it kind of like a tag vulnerable.

Yes, it's vulnerable and it's empty. It's vacant. The security you worry about security. Thank you for that point. Yes. As well. So um my hands are tied on. Yeah. I I wanted to clarify what you were saying. So you asked if it has been advertised as a a single family. Currently, the property is not a single family. It's zon single family, but it's currently an office space, right? So, I don't know how they can advertise as a single family because it's not single family right now. Well, I think in the listing, Linda, don't you have it listed like sort of like, you know, bring your bring your ideas or bring multi-use. So, I mean, she has it listed as such that

Yeah. come and take a look and figure out what to do with it, which Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And so someone has come to us and someone has come and said this is what I'm proposing and we like the idea because we like everything he has to say and the other portion of it is that he has been really working hard at putting plans together and pricing and you know I looked quickly and you could probably answer this better than anybody when I when I went on to like CRS and kind of poked around and stuff. Yeah. Can you just give me the quick ratio because I know there's single families. I know there's three families on that street if I'm not mistaken. Okay. So that there's there's there's two three in single family houses. Correct.

Yeah. Is do you have is it like a third two3? Do you have any because I I can't remember what I might like like is there a percentage of how many single family because I understand the the the person that that spoke out although that person actually owns a two family I I believe um and it wasn't a single family person that spoke out and no other person has spoken two letters there was two was was one a single family one was a multi already a multif family owner. One is a two family. I think one single. One was single. Okay. Not sure.

I was just trying to wonder what the ratio is is on that street of multif family to single family. The homes I can tell you that the homes north of the hospital y are pretty much two family. Yep. The homes south of the office going towards Tibbitz are mostly single, but the others are all multi multiple family. Two or three. Yeah.

Dorms. Yeah. I I'm I'm I'm styi right now. I honestly I'm Is there anybody else out there have anything to add or online? Sorry. No, we had somebody coming up. Okay.

My name is Paul Morano and I own a house in downtown Troy. Also an RPI graduate. I'm familiar with the neighborhood and I just have to say I thought you made a compelling argument for your for your use variance. Um I don't the criteria that needs to be met hardship car you know changing the character of the neighborhood uh not self-imposed. I just thought you made a compelling argument character of the neighborhood I don't think is going to be changed in a detrimental way. And I think an occupied building is much better than one that could go vacant for a number of years because of some future pre preconceived use which may or may not happen. So you have to make a decision based upon what's here on the table. So that's my input.

No. Would you like us to bring it to a vote? This is our second time here. We understand you're missing some board members tonight. So just one good. So the first thing we're going to vote on is tell them is it 22? If it's 22. So if it's 22, it doesn't pass. Okay. So you you need three people. So should we wait for all board members to be you? That that will be your choice. So, if you want if you want to do that, well, uh, the the board, I think, will entertain a motion to table this. Um,

that stalls your whole process. Yeah. And and let me explain to the consequences. If you if the motion fails, you don't get the variance. It's not like you can bring it back again. Okay. It it's you could come with a different use, but you won't be able to come back with the same proposal a second time. So, and you will need three votes to pass. Is Will is he active? Will Will is not a member of the board. He was here last.

He Yes, Will is on staff. Okay. The missing member is Eevee Dundy's. Oh, okay. Got it. That's what was throwing me on. So, so if it was just as a hypothetical, if it was if it passed as as being strictly for dormatory use, wouldn't that be something moving forward that anyone who purchased the property would have to use that property for that for that use? Yes. Yes. So, the the variance would go with the property. Okay. So that said, that said, considering that everything Suzanne said about the fact that is it is in a college community that would make it viable for someone else, say he left and wanted to sell it to some other young.

Right. But the issue right now is whether you want this tabled or whether or whether to wait for the fifth vote to be present or what? Yeah, let's do the vote. I mean it, you know, this is I don't know what to do yet. I would say do you know well if we come if if we table it until next meeting there there may be someone not here at that meeting right so it could happen it's you know it's a possibility but usually we have it's unlikely

it's unlikely we have pretty good attendance most of the time it's yes it's Yapor today is Yan Kapor. Yeah, that's why she's not here. It's a holiday for the member. I shouldn't be here either. up to you guys. So you feel good about this because if it's deny [Music] table it table it motion to table second. Thank you. All in favor I I

I Okay. [Music] That was the right. It was the right motion. Yeah. For that going down. Yep. You were going to it. Yeah. Rick's right in the room. You don't know, right? Okay. I want to say

our next order of business, new business is PLZBA 2025 0050442nd Street. Hello. Hello.

My name is Adam Patella. I'm the uh project representative as well as the architect for the project. 442 Second Street. Uh what we're proposing is a singlecar garage and what we've described as a workshop space which is just a workshop space for the owner of the property. Nothing commercial or extensive or anything like that. Um we'd like to use an existing curb cut. Uh and the owner would prefer to improve that curb cut. Right now it's kind of just been asphalted over by the city and he'd like to formalize that a little bit more. uh I think with concrete was his idea because driving over and over and over again would make it even worse. Uh he's got a number of other site improvements including landscaping and a new fence that he's going to pursue once this project is done. Uh the garage is 16 ft by 40 ft and we're requesting uh I believe it's a 9 foot variance. I'm not sure. Um, but we'd be using an existing curb cut and uh the access would be off of Van Beern Street. The photos that we've provided uh were to demonstrate scope as well to demonstrate that right across the street there are two structures with five uh five garage doors opening right onto the street already. Uh, this one would be behind a a gate that would slide

like a lane too, isn't it back there? What's in the back there? I I drove by. Point your finger to what's what there because it's kind of kind of having a photo too like back in. Yeah, there's like I don't know some janky woodshed kind of thing. Yeah, it's not it's I would hardly call it a formal structure at all. Um where it's going to go. Can you can you describe what's in the photos that you've provided? Yeah. Is this the first time you're seeing these? Yes.

Oh, okay. Uh so uh if we go maybe up to the site plan diagram you can see on the right side which is the uh east side of the parcel where we've got proposed onecar garage and workshop that the hatched rectangle would be the structure itself. The other larger kind of hatched area would represent um what would be paved or concrete. Uh we would enter from the top there where it says new gate. Uh that would be the kind of entryway for the vehicle. Uh there'd be a fence around the rest of the property uh including up against the um the alleyway there. There's an existing utility pole at the back there at the bottom right where the cursor is now. Uh the owner would also propose putting a ballard in at the corner just to keep cars from hitting any any new fence. Um and like like I said, the curb cuts already existing. Uh the photo that we provided, if you want to go to the next page, please. Photo number one there shows the existing curb cut and kind of the area that would be improved with new concrete. Photo two shows the uh view from the alley. Uh that fence would be replaced. Um you know, we go through the fence approval process. Uh, and then photo three, the one below there, shows directly across the street from this is essentially if you were driving out of this garage onto the street, you'd be uh staring at

that's what you see. Yeah. Okay. Three existing garages or excuse me, two existing garage structures that go right onto the street. Okay. The structure itself is like a simple it's it's kind of like a a monopitch roof, onecar garage kind of thing. There's uh potentially like some doors and things like that just to make it like kind of an open air workshop space if you wanted it to. But it's it's a it's 40 ft long to be able to accommodate his pickup truck and then kind of a workshop area outside of it. So it's kind of like the one to the to the left only with one door instead of two doors. Just a single story.

Yeah, more or less. It's a mono pitch roof. So instead of a gable, it's it's a single single pitch. He likes to work on his cars and trucks. I think it's more for like like woodworking and stuff like that, not not a garage for vehicles. No. So, let me ask you this. I believe you've answered it twice, but in the application agenda that I got, one car garage for the workshop. This is non-commercial use, correct? This is personal use. Yes, got it. Yeah, that's all I wanted to know. And where is the ballard that you spoke of?

Uh it would be uh the upper right hand of this. Can you show on the picture Angie show one whereabouts would it be? So it actually be uh it would be

okay. Okay. And I think that's something obviously we would, you know, fire department, whoever else has a vested interest in that. We Right. You'd have to make sure it didn't interfere with any with the city right away or the fire trucks. And

yeah, I think I I I feel like the owner said that there was like a vehicle that hit this fence before or something like that. So, that was his concern. But, you know, the uh if a ballard makes or breaks this project, we're certainly happy to omit it if that's what it comes down to. Uh, we also I spoke to Carlo about kind of who who's responsible for that sidewalk and he seemed to it was kind of ambiguous about actually who would be able to make improvements or if the owner could make improvements to the sidewalk area itself. Um, so that'd be another

owners under city code are responsible for the maintenance of adjacent sidewalks under 254 I think it is uh or 2514 whatever whatever the code number is but um they have to conform with our uh building code. Great. So the owner is willing to to replace the asphalt that the city put down for whatever reason. Uh, and then he would replace that with concrete. So, you'll just have to building permit that with the fence. Yeah, the fence would go through the the permitting process for the fence as well, right? They'll have to get a permit for that, too.

But it would be a replacement in the same location. I think different materials, maybe kind of more updated materials, but we would be applying for that. Any anybody have any questions out there in the public or online? on this or Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead, Zach. So, what we're voting on now is just to see her. It's not type two, is it? Type two. Type two. Yeah. So, you're not replacing an existing, don't [Music]

Mr. Chairman, in regard to PL ZBA 202500550 as supported by the staff reports, I ask that the board finds this proposal to be an unlisted seeker action with sufficient information available upon which to to state that no determination is necessary or required. I'll second that. I look I think you have to check this is not this it was given unlisted. No was given unlisted type two.

So okay so amend it to be a type two seeker action. Is that all I needed to say or do you need me to read this? That's all. Okay. I still second it. I I still approve. Approve. Approve. Approve. Okay. No further review is no further secret review is required. You want a use variance? Is it a use right or an area varian? No, it's an area variance.

Okay. In regards to PLZBA 202500550442 Street, we'll go to an area variance. I would move the board approve the variance based on the following findings of fact. The variance would not create an undesirable change in the character of the neighborhood or be a detriment to nearby properties if granted. And the variance, if granted, would not have an adverse effect or impact on any physical or environmental conditions in the neighborhood because it's non-commercial use.

I'll second that. Approve. Approve. Approve. Approve.

How's that? You're good. Thank you very much. Good to go. Congrats. Moving right along.

The next order of business, PLZBA 2025005135 State Street. Paul Thank you very much. Uh my name is Paul Morano. I'm the uh president of the board of trustees for Christ Church United Methodist located at 35 State Street in downtown Troy between uh Fourth and Fifth. And we were asking for a uh area variance to install an additional fence in our uh parish house garden area that would uh prevent people from gaining access to some secluded areas of uh our garden area. Uh the two areas of concern that have that have been uh areas of concern for a while are we have an emergency uh basement uh uh exit with a stairwell that's uh sheltered that we often have uh some people uh hanging out in that stairwell either sleeping uh uh overnight for long periods periods of time or even during normal business hours. uh people will go down there and uh you know do all sorts of stuff which I don't have to get into details about.

Um in addition to it's really interesting to see some of the stuff that goes on there. Um there's another area just located further back from the stairwell that's kind of in a secluded area where there's another emergency exit on the first floor of the building uh that uh connects the parish house to the church house the parish house to the church building that also you know undesirable activity occurs. Um, we have an existing row iron fence around the garden area, but you know, locking the gates during the day just kind of uh inhibits uh public egress to the building. Um, we have a number of organizations that use our facilities during the day. Uh, in some ways, we're almost like a community center. Uh, you know, we're open more than just Sunday mornings. So, the idea of putting up uh an additional fencing to kind of section off that area of the yard was a solution that we were looking at. We could go four feet high, but we're concerned that, you know, that might be, you know, too low to prevent people from jumping over the fence. So, we thought we would go six feet high to make it a little bit more difficult. Will people jump it? Time will tell, but at least we're trying to do our best. Um, any questions?

I have no questions at all. I have not questions. I have no questions. I have a couple questions if you don't mind. Uh, one is, uh, what type of fence are you proposing material wise? Yeah. Well, we're we have a HRC application, uh, in route right now. We're going to go talk to the HRC folks, I think, on October 14th. We're on their agenda. Um what we're proposing to install is a ornamental uh rot iron lookingish type of fence to match the character of the fence that's already there existing and it'll also have a gate uh uh with a crash bar on it uh for emergency eress.

So that that was my second question is um will you said this will enclose emergency exits. Is that what the plan is? So, how will people using the emergency exits get through the fence? I think you might have just answered it, but exactly. Yeah, there there'll be a a gate in that fenced area uh with a crash bar on it. So, people exiting the building during an emergency from the basement area or from the first floor going out into that garden space, uh they'll be able to hit that crash bar and uh and exit. Um lovely. Okay, those are the only question.

Do we have anyone else on the public comments? Anybody online? So, this is unlisted. This is This is No, this is type two. Everything he's got written is wrong. Yeah. Sorry, Zachary. Yeah, both. Yeah, these are

this is the one I was working on. But that one's tight. Oh, yeah. It just says tape two. Yeah. Yeah. In regards to PLZBA 20250051 as supported by the staff reports, I ask that the board find this proposal to be a type two seeker action with sufficient information available upon which to state that no determination is necessary or required. Second. Approve. I approve. Approve.

Approve. Now you need to move the variance. It's an area variance. Area variance. Okay.

Regarding PLZBA 20250051 35 State Street, Troy, New York, we're going to go to an area variance. I would move that the board approve the variance based upon the following findings of fact. The variance will not create an undesirable change in the character of the neighborhood, nor will it be a detriment to nearby properties if granted because it's only going to solve problems and everything is going to look very much the same and it would not have an adverse effect or impact on any type of environmental issues in the district.

Second. Approve. Approve. Approve. Approve. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Have a great night. Okay. The next order of business moving along here is PLZBA 2025 0052 [Music] 580 River Street. [Music]

Good evening everybody. My name is Pat Mcdana, uh, authorized agent on behalf of Chrisman Benini, the owner of 574, uh, River Street, um, Chrisman's Automotive Repair. Um, he also owns 580 River Street. He purchased it in October 2018. Um, in the with the anticipated use of uh, demolishing the structure on the site and using it as off- streetet parking for his adjacent building or his adjacent build business. So, we're asking for a special use permit uh for that purpose.

Actually, what you're seeking here is a use variance. A use variance. Sorry about that. Thank you. The planning board would be the has perview of special use permits. Got it.

Any any questions? No, it's pretty straightforward, right? Anything we need to know? Want to tear down a building and put up a parking lot, right? Yeah. Yeah. We uh early this year, we had it uh an asbestous baitment completed on it when we identified a speesus on it. So, we had every asbestous abatement. So, the shingles, there was a portion of the building that had asbestous shingles. We got that identified through testing and then we had them removed. That's been done. That's been done. It was done this summer. That's correct, sir. Yes. So ask the applicant whether they wants to speak to any of the tests, the four tests that need to be met for the use variance. You want me to go over that with you?

So from a hardship perspective, I wrote in in the letter that I hopefully you guys have seen. Um, you know, it's a it's an it's not a typical hardship. The hardship currently is an opportunity lost hardship because right now um Chrisman uses on street parking and has to shuffle on street parking in order to accommodate um the the business flow. Um this provides additional off- streetet parking also provides additional safety for those vehicles. There's been several in the 20 years you've been there that uh vehicles that have been overnight gotten hit and and and significantly destroyed. Um, so that alleviates that problem to some extent, but it allows him to have a higher thut throughput of business. Um, I estimate that he's probably had an economic loss about $50,000 over the last four or five years since he bought the building and hasn't hadn't had the opportunity, you know, regardless of the 20 years you've been in business. So, this improves his business operations um, in addition to providing some safety to the vehicles that are are currently always parked on the street if they're not if they're being um, not being worked on. And this is a derelict house anyways, right?

That's correct. So, yeah, there's three other tests.

So, the other one is altering the essential character of the neighborhood. Um, I have a hard time believing, granted, I have a hard time believing destroying or demolishing a vacant building has an adverse impact. However, the addition of the parking lot, which is the intended use, I also doesn't don't think that has it because there's other um there's it's it's a commercial area. It has a few residential properties adjacent to it, but for the most part, it's mixed juice. There's commercial and residential. So, the addition of the parking lot, I don't see how that adversely impacts the the uh altering the essential um character of the neighborhood. Um environmental impact, we talked about that. We we took care of the environmental impact with removing the asbestous. We're not doing anything creating another adverse impact um by just having it be a parking lot. We don't believe. Um, and the other part is unique compared to other properties. Um, there's already vacant lots on that portion of the street. This just adds to that. It doesn't change or it's not it it creates nothing more unique that that's already there.

I have a question. What did the planning department say? Did you talk with them at all? The So, the planning department um we have not Well, we've got a building. We got the demolition permit and they haven't said anything negative regarding the next phase of the project. We So, but we haven't I don't think we've talked to them in great detail about the next. So, you do have the demolition permit. We got it today. You have the asbestous abatement. That was part of the demolition permit. That was a requirement to provide them as part of the demolition permit which we we satisfied. Is there a difference between a parking structure and a parking lot? Yes.

What would that be? And would either one apply in this case? This is he's proposing a parking lot which is just the surface ground surface parking parking structure is like the fifth avenue garage or the state street garage. Oh, all right. All right. Okay. Those are buildings that are designed multi-level parking. You're not going to put a garage.

We have no intention to put multiple levels. However, if business if this really does help, we would propose taking it from like a grade two stone that we intend to put down a compacted stone to something more durable like an asphalt. So, if we but obviously with the proper permitting um but so that to me I think we get a little bit more toward the structure if we do something more formal like asphalt with so I think that might be more planning board review. No, no. As as to as to the quality of the materials that you put down, right? Uh do you want to speak to whether or not the hardship is self-created? Um so the hardship is self-created. Is is the hardship you want to argue that is not self?

It's not it's not self-created. Um you know, he's owned the business there for 20 years. Um yeah, since ' 06. Um you know, the hardship is it's not created. It's more of a an improvement opportunity for his business. So right now, you know, he could be making more money. Um, but because of the fact that he has to jockey vehicles all around, um, it's more of an opportunity loss hardship than an actual economic hardship. And it's not self-imposed. It's just the way the reality of his business works. I have one more question. Would the applicant uh be willing to have the parcels merged?

So that that's a great question. There is a small sliver of land between 574 and 580 that's owned by First Colombia. We have pre- pandemic, I've personally talked to First Colombia twice, asking them, begging them to please tell us that sliver of land between 574 and 580. They will not entertain me at all. So they're not adjacent parcels. They're not adjacent parcels. How how wide is the sliver of land? The sliver of land's approximately 15 feet wide. And we cannot even get First Columbia to talk to us about buying it. I have I'm exasperated with that element of it. So for a few years, we tried pre- pandemic and once the pandemic hit, we moved on out of So you haven't addressed it since CO?

I have no intentions of talking to them. Okay, I got you. I'm sour, very sour with First Colombia. If we if this goes through it, it may it may be a conversation we could have. No, they could have. Yeah, they could have. Right, right, right, right, right, right. I understood what you said. I I I have no intentions of talking based on prior 20 He said 2018. We bought the auto repair shop is 2006. The house October of 2018. You sold the garage for 20.

So the the woman that was living there was moving out. She gave us her first rate of refusal. We took the opportunity because we had already started to talk First Columbia and First Columbia wouldn't talk us. How long have you been in business at the River Street 57? 2006. Question. Okay. Any any questions out? There's not too many people out there. Anybody online? Anybody online to Yes, please. please. So, we're gonna do it. It's unlisted.

Correct. In regards to the PL ZBA 20250052 as supported by the staff reports, I ask that the board find this approval to be an unlisted seeker action with sufficient information available for a negative declaration. Second approve. I would approve. Approve. Approve. You want a use variance or an area variance? This is a use variance. Okay.

So, regarding PLZBA 202250052 with an address of 580 River Street, Troy, New York. We're going to go to a used variance and I would move that the board approve the variance based upon the following findings of fact. that the hardship relating to the property, well, it really doesn't apply. The request that variance, if granted, would not alter the essential character of the neighborhood. And I don't see where the alleged hardship is self-created at all. Second.

There are two other tests. All four. I'm sorry. That the property is um unable to provide a reasonable rate of return unless the variance is approved. That's that's that's one of them. And that the hardship relating to the property is not unique. No, that is that it is unique when compared to similar properties and would be in the essential character of the neighborhood. Second. Approve. Approve. Approve.

Approve. Thank you very much. Have a great evening everybody. You too.

All right. Our last uh business, last man standing. That's right. PLZBA 2022. Nelson Rivera. Yeah. My name is Nelson Rivera. Okay. I have a fan address. Uh 1066 Avenue. 1066th Avenue.

Okay. Start again. Sorry. I doing I did my fence with the permit but I know I specify the material and I use metal sheets roofing and cold enforcement they stop the the construction. I just looking to see if I can keep the fence with the material I use. I think it look good. Nobody every I just get compliment. Everybody see the fans. I I don't know. I I don't know if you got the pictures of the fence.

I think we've seen it. Yeah.

I don't think it changed the neighborhood the way the fence is. They I make the fence. like I living already there for 10 years and I try to my house little by little get better and then there's a lot of crime around like people jumping in the backyard then I own a daycare home daycare and we got like a playground in the backyard and every stealing stuff from the backyard And the fence is gonna be paint the same color because next year I gonna finish the siding and it gonna match the fence.

Are you gonna Mr. River? Are you going to do the back? Yeah, the back is going to be close to in that alleyway. Is that Yeah, it's a going to be a gate 12 ft gate. The two two gates. So the the problem is it's it's not a fence. You you you took roofing material and but what thinking is like this like they say target fence and vinyl. Yeah. And and similar style like it look similar style the way I made the fence. But that's not a fence. It's just metal.

Yeah. But if I paint it cream um it not going to be metal. So, to me, it looks like a commercial. Uh, I don't think it goes with a residential neighborhood. That's not a finish. Yeah, it's um finished. I have two question. I got a picture of the color. You You have the So, what is left is just the the painting that you like I sent a picture of the the how it going to look in the future. There's another picture. You say

that is the back of it. Look back. That's between the outside. That's his backyard. Yeah, that was my That was or is No, no. He means the old part. The old part. The other old front. Beware of the dog. Did he need a variance for the height? Yeah. I got approved for the height. How tall is the back? It's six in the like some side because the level of the floor sure is some size six and then go down like five. But the the taller that's because of the ground. The ground.

Yeah. I have two questions for you. You got a work permit from code to do this. Correct. And usually on the fences because I put one in at my house this year and I went down to code, talked to them, got the permit, paid the treasurer. Aren't most stockade fences or at least in my mind a stockade fence is either wood or vinyl?

Yeah, but it's a similar m similar style. Wood, vinyl or other material. Yeah, similar style or sim or similar type. Yeah. What ex exactly does it say? Stack st stock eight wood vinyl or similar type. Similar similar type. But that is that is not all right. That is that is the that is the permit. It the application the for the permit that is not what is written into in the city code. What's written in the city code?

It's it's Barb. Okay. It says the zoning code does not specify which materials are permitted but does identify prohibited materials on page 92 of the zoning code. What are the prohibited materials? Barb wire, electric fence, chicken wire, pallets, tires, and plywood shall not be used as fencing material or as any part of a fence visible from the public right away. Construction fencing shall only be utilized in association with a construction project with an open building permit. This is not barred by the code. It's not barred, is it? No.

No. Second question, in your commentary, you said something about a nursery school or a daycare center. They is that registered? Yeah. As a licensed daycare center. Yeah. Is a home daycare with Renelier County. You went what, sir? Renelier County. They went to the city. So you've got a permit for that. Okay.

All fencing. What's the first paragraph say? All fencing and fence wall shall be installed. So the finished sides on the outside. All fences shall be installed to the finished side face. He does have the the he does have the bracing on the inside of the fence. And number two has the prohibitive materials which is barb wire electric. Can I ask a dumb question? No. Yeah, there's no dumb questions here. Is the height within six foot, right?

Does he need a variance for that? It's on the side, right? Yeah. So the height's okay. Y the side of the house here. Mr. Rivera, you mentioned something about painting it or refinishing it. Yeah, I going I going to paint it. I was I was when I build it, I was trying to get the the color already in the m in the in the sheets, but they was available. But it going to be paint. What color are you painting it? Like cream white.

I got a picture. Yeah. Yeah. Show us a picture.

Oh, I hit it again. So, it's going to be like matching your house, right? Yeah. Yeah. I got the idea. Thank you. Okay. Can I ask a dumb question now? Ask your question. Yeah question. So why is he here? That's that's my question. So he hasn't it's not against the code. Correct. And the application was for a similar type which he seems to have me met. Does he really need a variance? And I I'm asking that is I don't know. Should I ask that?

Okay. So the reason why he's here building department they stop him from continuum the because they said that the material that he was putting up was not a fancy material and the example they gave was that if you if you go to home depot to look forensive material you wouldn't find a roof this type in defensive material and they don't think that it's even safe, a safe material to use out of what? They said it was unsafe. Yeah. Yeah. In what way? Yeah. Because I think the edges are a little bit sharp when you the edges of the

on the top. Yeah. And on the side you can you can put you can we have fences all over Troy that have points and Yeah. Yeah. You know how they're meant to deter people from climbing. Yeah. Yeah. They believe it because material cannot be offensive material and that was why they so they did a stop work order for him because he indicated that he was according to them indicated not others that was not the you

I stagger wood and b and in the size I similar type of fence.

I'm curious, what motivated you to use the sheet metal as opposed to what we would ordinarily think of the customary wooden stockade fence or vinyl stockade fence or have a fence company come in and just put one in. I'm curious. Uh, I saw already people putting f wood by my street and they already look bad. Like I don't want to fix my fence every five years. That's one one of the reason.

Oh, you're afraid of using wood because it would deteriorate. Yeah, I see someone already like two years and the fence look bad already. I don't know if the type of the the wood they use is cheap. No, we're not.

So, I understand that it's not prohibited by the code. That's my legal opinion. There's no variance to be granted and the stop work order needs to be lifted. uh the code may bear amendment but until it's amended I think that Mr. Rivera has not violated. I mean that's is there any action needed on our part? No, I I don't believe there's any action needed on your part other than to u you know staff will convey that. I mean it's just not it's not listed there as being a prohibited material. So you understand that?

Yeah. I don't see it as prohibited material. No. Neither do I. No, I'm saying it's not it's not prohibited. But but is it they're it's unusual material. Okay.

It is a solid fence. I mean it's a barrier. Um I don't know why I'm not even sure if it should or should not be prohibited. I mean, it's it's different than what we're what everyone is used to, and it's not sold commercially as fencing, but it's in it seems to be installed properly, and it seems to be um I I I'm at a loss. I don't remember. It's not on the list of stuff you can't use. Just because something's unusual doesn't mean it's wrong. And I'm not saying And I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm saying it's it's it's not run-of-the-mill. I think that the there's actually a building department

up the hill from me in Brunswick that's made out of the same material. Oh, really? Yeah. And they put something up on top of it and it looks really good actually. So it wouldn't bend maybe. Yeah. So it wouldn't bend or Yeah. I gonna I tried to put like a crown. Yes. Yes. Like a wood crown.

And it looks really nice. Now my my I'm throw my two cents in since we're doing this. If the building department has to be more specific, my opinion on what kind of fence and when somebody goes I when I I had to get two permits for my fence at my house and I took in there a photo of or out of Bruce fence or whatever. I took in here's what I'm going to use. I think that might be a step might be a step. Might be a step. That's all I'm saying. My two cents if there's a safety concern, you should think about addressing that. Yep. If you frame it, yeah, I want to frame it. Yeah.

Especially if you stain that framing or paint that framing to match it, I think you'd alleviate a lot of safety concerns. Are do you have material that you can crown it with? Yeah, we even like they stop. We even they they walk they drive when I we start the fence like they saw the first three sheets then they wait to I finish and only the gates to finish the fence then they put the paper. Yeah. So like they don't tell me like right away when I start like the first three sheets. Do you have I guess is it your intention to put some kind of crown on top? Yeah, I was

It would stabilize it if you Yeah, I was already in my PL. Yeah. Otherwise, it'll it'll flap in the winds. It'll actually come apart. It's solid. You need to go and because it's like metal pole in I see you have metal controls, wood bracing and things like that. But yeah, I don't I was already in my plan. So, Mr. Morsy, how do we handle this? We don't table it. We adjourn it. We dismiss it. What do we do? I think you dismiss it. Then I would make a motion. Are you making a motion? Because for the reason for the reason that no action is required,

he's gonna have to wait until they get them the go to keep continue. So they're going to have to lift the stop work order. We we don't uh How how do we get that? I mean, you're going to do that. We just make a motion to dismiss it. Yes. Okay. I didn't make a motion. I tried to. Okay. Can I make a motion to dismiss it? Yes. Yes. I PLZBA 20250053. I move to dismiss this. I second that motion. Essentially, we're saying we don't have jurisdiction over this. This is not approved. You're free to go. Thank you. You're free to go. That's what Yeah, that's okay. Where's the gavl?

Before everybody leaves, would I be able to ask you guys a couple questions? Someone online? Sure. Okay. Um, I actually received a letter. I have been in attendance on Zoom for every single um meeting you guys have had since May. and I currently live next door to Martinez Fence and Construction Company that is operating out of our residential neighborhood. I've been told

Okay, ma'am. Ma'am, um I'm familiar with your complaint. Our code inspectors have checked out the premises. They're not finding that he's operating a business out of the garage. He's entitled to use it the way he's using it. That is not a zoning question at this point. So he he had a lease agreement with me to use my property and he was operating the business from there without ever having a use variance or a certificate of occupancy. So he's not currently doing that as far as we know. He is I've sent them videos of them still operating every single day.

Ma'am, that is not a matter on our agenda tonight. And as far as I know, uh, the reports of all our code officers who have been there, several different ones at different times, he is not operating a business out of that garage. I'm going to make a motion to adjurnn. Does anyone? I second that. Approve. be in favor of favor. I like to over microphones are off video.

Okay. Nothing to do with any business before the board. No. Okay. I did. I I voted to I'll make another I I vote to adjourn the meeting. I